IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2013-01-12

MentalistTraceur(Oh wait, yeah, I see his quit message. Was right after kerio joined)00:00          35139   IN      A
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:06:48] <timeless> it's a cname for timeless.justdave.net00:01
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:06:56] <timeless> which responds differently when you visit it by that hostname00:01
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:07:15] <DocScrutinizer05> mhm00:01
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:07:33] <DocScrutinizer05> but the host is, not
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:08:11] <DocScrutinizer05> so I could consider it "safe" for now?00:01
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:10:22] <DocScrutinizer05> timeless: ^^^00:01
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:11:10] <DocScrutinizer05> I.E. the server is not one of those Nokia will tear down soonish?00:01
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-09 16:11:22] <timeless> right00:01
Paliand ?00:01
PaliDocScrutinizer05: and downloads.maemo.org00:02
MentalistTraceurShouldn't we still add it in to whatever file is being discussed sooner rather than later, so it doesn't get forgotten until the DNS entry for it expires?00:02
ShadowJKwhat file?00:03
ShadowJKI would've assumed hf would get the full existing zone file for or do we have to start from scratch?00:04
MentalistTraceurWhatever file this referred to: "<Pali> DocScrutinizer05, in your /etc/hosts is missing and also"00:04
ShadowJKAh that's hacks00:04
MentalistTraceurVery well. I defer to your superior technical knowledge.00:05
*** mvp_ has quit IRC00:05
ShadowJK/etc/hosts on your computer or N900 bypasses DNS. Some of the servers have already been migrated to nemein, but the still nokia controlled DNS points browsers at the old servers hosted by Nokia. By editing that file, it's possible to test the new servers00:06
ShadowJKnot hosted by nokia actually, was it logia or something, but paid by nokia..00:06
*** NIN102 has quit IRC00:06
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo00:08
ShadowJKAs is a CNAME entry, it means in DNS terms that when the browser asks for "", it gets a reply saying "ask", instead of getting an IP address. Amusingly this means that if all the Nokia sponsored servers go down, will be the only thing that still works :-)00:08
*** Erasmus`` has quit IRC00:09 is not CNAME00:10          34486   IN      A
PaliShadowJK ^^^00:10
Palirun dig00:10
MentalistTraceurI actually understand the function of both /etc/hosts (on normal computers - I just did not know if the /etc/hosts being discussed was some special, unrelated-to-that-normal-functionality file).00:11
MentalistTraceurBut thank you, the explanation would've been helpful if I was unaware of how it worked.00:11
MentalistTraceur(Ditto for CNAME DNS records)00:11
*** etrunko has quit IRC00:12
*** konelix__ is now known as konelix00:12
ShadowJKwhy did timeless think it was a cname00:13
*** markinfo has joined #maemo00:14
*** konelix has quit IRC00:15
*** ced117 has quit IRC00:15
*** konelix has joined #maemo00:16
MentalistTraceurQuestion: Is there a way to make passwd use a password that's longer than 8 characters (i.e. not ignore everything beyond that)?00:17
ShadowJKNot trivially00:17
*** janemba_ has quit IRC00:17
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo00:19
MentalistTraceurI mean, afaik it's the algorithm used to do the hashing that drops the characters after the 8th. And I know you can make it hash using a different algorithm by editing config file /etc/pam.d/passwd or something like that, but would doing that make it actually stop dropping the last 8 characters (which boils down to the question of 'is the passwd utility dropping the chars, or is it just passing the whole string to the00:19
MentalistTraceurhashing algorithm used")?00:19
ShadowJKI don't think pam is relevant on N900...00:20
ShadowJKlike, do we even have /etc/shadow on it?00:20
ShadowJKright :)00:20
ShadowJKcrypt()ed into passwd then?00:20
ShadowJKIf someone held me at gunpoint I'd rewrite crypt in glibc to do this..00:22
*** nox- has joined #maemo00:22
*** dhbiker has quit IRC00:23
*** xes has joined #maemo00:23
MentalistTraceurWho would I go annoy (kernel-power maintainer, someone else, would it need to be packaged into CSSU to distribute in a non-hacked way..?) to get the N900 to use /etc/shadow, and so forth?00:24
MentalistTraceurI guess what I'm asking is 'what do I have to go learn to modify/package to get it set up?'00:25
ShadowJKWell, it's a major change of the low level stuff. It's the kind big re-architecturing thing that is/was easier to do in Mer00:26
kerioMentalistTraceur: anything that uses any system password00:26
kerioand you're still not going to be able to fix 3rd party programs that assume that /etc/passwd holds the passwords00:27
ShadowJKhm... sshd and dropbox come to mind, any others?00:28
keriodropbox? wtf00:28
keriowhy would dropbox care about user and root's passwords?00:28
kerioto be fair, third-party programs apart for stuff like sshd shouldn't really care about passwd00:28
keriobecause there are no passwords in passwd in the standard fremantle00:29
MentalistTraceurSpeaking of Mer, who made the decision to have it use rpm instead of deb? That was done in MeeGo before Mer forked from it, right?00:29
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo00:30
MentalistTraceurAnd more to the point of what I'm actually curious about, why was that done, if anyone knows?00:30
ShadowJKno wait, dropbox is that fielsharing thing00:32
ShadowJKwhat was the real name.. beardrop?00:32
ShadowJKthe lightweight sshd thing...00:32
MentalistTraceurYeah, dropbear.00:32
ShadowJKah thx :)00:32
MentalistTraceurIt has an ssh client and an scp program as well.00:32
MentalistTraceurIt's not just a server.00:33
ShadowJKMer was deb before MeeGo, then it went rpm when MeeGo came. iirc.00:33
Sysaxedpower kernel increases boot time by 5 seconds. why? :)00:34
ShadowJKIn the meanwhile they've worked hard on slimming their infrastructure to the point they can run everything on less than 300 bucks per month in hosting costs for everything.00:34
ShadowJKI guess they've not seen much reason to switch back :)00:34
MentalistTraceurSomeone needs to figure out how to make one package manager compatible with the other package formats.00:34
Sysaxedis it just something getting loaded at boot time or a general performance slowdown?00:34
MentalistTraceur(The reason is that I'm used to .deb and I don't want to learn a new package format and the world naturally revolves around me.)00:35
ShadowJKI don't know any packaging format :)00:35
*** Darkchaos has quit IRC00:35
ShadowJKSysaxed, I would suspect boot time00:35
*** eMHa has quit IRC00:36
SysaxedShadowJK, I have two identical devices00:36
*** eMHa has joined #maemo00:36
Sysaxedboot time was exactly the same before installing power kernel on one of the devices00:36
MentalistTraceurI know .deb in that I know how to make .debs (not necessarily well), and that it's an archive produced by the 'ar' program, inside of which there are several .tar.gz files.00:36
ShadowJKpowerkernel includes alot more drivers, so I would not be surprised if it took longer to initialize00:37
ShadowJKI would expect that runtime performance would be the same, though00:37
SysaxedShadowJK, oh, ok00:37
Sysaxedany benchmarking tool?00:37
MentalistTraceurOh, except now it's sometimes .tar.xz files, which sucks, cuz the N900's ancient dpkg doesn't know how to use those.00:37
ShadowJKGetting maemo up to date would be an exciting project for sure, kinda what cordia tried/tries to do..00:38
MentalistTraceurWell, Cordia is more of a 'make Mer look like Maemo', which I heartily approve of anyway.00:38
SysaxedShadowJK, you mean migrating to the latest debian packages? :O00:39
ShadowJKMentalistTraceur, I thought it was "Make hildon run on debian" thing00:39
MentalistTraceurPersonally, I think we (as in the whole community) should all get together and start our own cell phone manufacturing company, producing devices with completely open-source phones. There's totally enough of an untapped market for that.00:40
Sysaxedwell, really, I'd be very happy if it was possible to run debian on n900 with ability to make phone calls...00:41
MentalistTraceurShadowJK, afair, Cordia has Mer at its core. I could of course be misremembering....00:41
*** konelix has quit IRC00:41
Sysaxedand I don't even need any special window manager00:41
Sysaxedwhy would I if I can use stylus...00:41
ShadowJKI guess deblet never reached phone capability00:42
ShadowJKsts did say it was rubbish battery life00:42
MentalistTraceurOkay, I'm going AFK like I said I was, now.00:43
ShadowJKMentalistTraceur, I often find I have this problem too with this channel. :)00:43
MentalistTraceur(Life has proven itself to be depressing and sad, for apparently getting the proper /etc/shadow -using setup on the N900 is difficult and outside my current time and abilities.)00:44
*** sinfocol_ is now known as bef0rd00:45
Sysaxedanybody? I need something to check the performance of my n900 devices. Any benchmark app?00:46
cehtehwhat performance?00:46
Sysaxedcpu I guess00:46
ShadowJKMentalistTraceur, it's pretty interesting how the "important things" varies between geeks :)00:47
MentalistTraceurFinal remark before I go away for a bit: A. Sorry Sysaxed, don't know of any. B. What meaning is there to existance if one's password hashes are plainly available for the world to see?00:47
cehtehwhy do you need to check it?00:47
cehtehby default it runs up to 600mhz .. and thats definite00:47
*** eichi has joined #maemo00:48
ShadowJKcehteh, he's concerned because after installing power kernel, his boot time increased.00:48
cehtehcan happen .. but thats not a cpu issue00:48
ShadowJKMentalistTraceur, shows the origins of a singleuser system, I guess00:48
Sysaxedcehteh, I have two devices configured identically. I want to see if anything changes after installing different things00:49
cehtehit most likely will more or less00:49
ShadowJKcehteh, so he's worried that htis isn't just slowing down boot time, but that it is slowing down everything00:49
cehtehdont worry, send me the devices, no problems for you at all :P00:50
ShadowJKOne benchmark I used to use was "open in browser and wait for it to load"... but I have unlimited bandwidth.. without that, web benchmarks are a bit dangerous00:51
cehtehconsidering emmc and µSD latency and tracker and all other background stuff its hard to impossible to measure real-world performance in a reliable and reproducible way00:52
cehtehcpu wont be much of a bottleneck .. I/O and the lack of ram is00:52
ShadowJKMy theory was that the boot time is slowed somewhat by the extra drivers that pk includes00:54
Sysaxedmost probably00:54
cehtehdunno if there are patches for these, but just looking at dmesg gives you timestamps00:55
cehtehget the timestamp of the first entry when booting started and define some entry which defines that the boot has finished00:55
cehtehmake a script substracting those and voila00:55
Sysaxedwhat for?00:56
Sysaxedstarting devices simultaneously does the thing00:56
cehtehfine if that works for you00:56
cehtehwhy did you ask then?00:56
*** markinfo has quit IRC00:57
SysaxedI'm asking how can I check the performance.. not the boot time...00:57
*** eichi has quit IRC01:06
ShadowJKspeaking of http://whatever, firefox is currently at 8138M vsz ram use and 5300M rss :-( I only have 8G ram :-(01:06
uncloudedhow on earth did browsers used to run on machines with 128MB of RAM?01:07
uncloudedmy Chromium chews 2GB too.  what it the world coming to!?01:08
*** OkropNick has quit IRC01:08
* nox- used to run Mosaic and later netscape in 32 MB RAM too...01:09
kerionox-: i'm not entirely sure that picture is legit01:09
nox-makey you wonder yeah...01:09
nox-makes even01:09
ShadowJKnox-, 32M for mosaic, that sounds luxurious01:09
*** hardaker has joined #maemo01:10
nox-it was my first freebsd box at home, a 486 :)01:10
* ShadowJK remembers running Netscape2 on 8M. And THAT felt like luxury, because before that I was limited to Netscape 1 on 4M ram, and websites kept telling me to fuck off if I didn't have Netscape201:10
*** NIN101 has quit IRC01:10
SysaxedShadowJK, my friend was using a laptop with 256 mb of ram only01:10
SysaxedShadowJK, XP as OS01:10
SysaxedShadowJK, it was just fine.01:10
Sysaxedfirefox as web browser01:10
ShadowJKW2K on 256M is mostly fine too before you start skype and browser01:11
Sysaxedon crunchbang I was able to get in 256 mb limit with firefox and skype started01:11
nox-ppl used to mock emacs, and now its browsers that are eight gigabytes and constantly swapping...01:11
ShadowJKnox-, aint that the truth01:11
ShadowJKI fired up 4 external USB harddrives and set me up a raid-0 swap to recover01:12
nox-oh dear :)01:12
*** eichi has joined #maemo01:13
ShadowJKI had accidentally left a bad site open, I think it was gitorious, or some similar site01:13
ShadowJKand firefox had grown in size overnight01:13
*** xes has quit IRC01:14
fastlane`firefox does that to every site i guess, just leaving stuff open and leaving them that way.01:18
fastlane`with days it gets worse01:19
ShadowJKI run noscript usually01:20
ShadowJKbut these were sites that refused to work without javascript so I had to enable :(01:20
*** eichi has quit IRC01:20
ShadowJKand they ate my RAM and half of my 8gig swapfile. bastards. :-(01:20
fastlane`yea they always operate on a --no-mercy compiler switch :p01:21
*** bef0rd has quit IRC01:21
*** tetzco has quit IRC01:21
SysaxedI have a laptop with 1 gb RAM01:22
fastlane`whats the processor01:22
Sysaxedand something was swapped only 3-4 times in my life on that pc01:22
Sysaxedso it's more than enough for running firefox, skype, dropbox, eclipse, blender01:23
ShadowJKMy N900 can run the x86-emulator written in javascript, booting linux. My quad-core desktop is forced to its knees by what is essentially static text. There's something wrong with web.01:23
Sysaxedsimultaneously, of course01:23
fastlane`Error (404)01:24
fastlane`We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home.01:24
*** Sysaxed has quit IRC01:28
*** Sysaxed has joined #maemo01:28
Sysaxedfastlane`, sorry, my connection was lost halfway uploading a screenshot. check it again :)01:30
fastlane`oh np, yes its accessible now01:31
*** Sysaxed has quit IRC01:36
*** Sysaxed_ has joined #maemo01:37
Sysaxed_fastlane`, by the way, why does it matter?01:37
fastlane`it doesnt i guess01:43
ShadowJKMy Atom 550 (iirc) machine has same web browser benchmark scores as my android tablet :/01:43
ShadowJKMy 2006 vintage AMD Sempron box beats them both by miles01:44
fastlane`but with that ram, eclipse is not that ram friendly or is it?01:44
fastlane`which android tab do u have?01:44
ShadowJKAsus TF70001:44
ShadowJKQuad core tegra 3 @ 1.66 Ghz01:44
ShadowJKThe Sempron 3100+ runs at 1.8GHz clock frequency, iirc.01:45
fastlane`android is not that ram friendly i guess01:46
ShadowJKFor h264 decoding, dual-core Atom 330 (@1.66Ghz) sometimes beats the sempron :)01:46
ShadowJKAndroid is ram-paranoid01:46
fastlane`my friend has a nexus 3, and i start browsing couple of websites on chrome on android 4.2 i think01:46
fastlane`and after a while, the website kind of page ot whatever01:46
fastlane`give n900 1 gb ram :$01:47
ShadowJKIf you switch tabs or switch app, it "forgets" the other apps or tabs01:47
fastlane`true that !01:47
ShadowJKIt's really annoying01:47
ShadowJKLike, I open tabs so that I'd not have to suffer loading times01:47
ShadowJKand then it goes and discards the page anyway01:47
ShadowJKpisses me off01:48
ShadowJKN900 does better01:48
fastlane`yes and then its like we r trying to kill these problems with faster n faster hardware, rather then doing something about it in the software ... but then i guess nothing more can be done as the wole system is running java01:48
fastlane`nothing is deterministic in nature there01:48
Sysaxed_fastlane`, eclipse is fine. 100-300 megs ram usage01:48
fastlane`galaxy note 2 is supposed to FAST damn it01:49
fastlane`but again, the same problems01:49
fastlane`with 2gb ram01:49
Sysaxed_fastlane`, java is not that slow really01:49
ShadowJKThere's also this thing where anyhting that is not in foreground is suspended01:50
fastlane`hmm, their own scheduling01:50
ShadowJKit's the basis of android's power saving strategy01:50
fastlane`power saving my foot :p01:51
ShadowJKIt effectively disables multitasking01:51
Sysaxed_disables... I thought it was called "kills"01:51
fastlane`is there a kill even?01:52
fastlane`why wasnt just everything written in c01:52
*** vblazquez has quit IRC01:52
ShadowJKI have a habbit of opening, say,, and then "open in new tab" every interesting article, switch to IRC to pass some time while browser loads, switch back... except browser has been paused while I've been ircing, and I STILL have to wait for shit to load01:52
ShadowJKgod damn it, if I have 4 cores, I wouldn't mind 3 of them used for the browser when I'm in irc01:53
Sysaxed_ShadowJK, that's why we have n900, right?01:53
ShadowJKTrue that01:53
fastlane`absolutely !01:53
ShadowJKI use my N900 more than the android tablet01:53
ShadowJKthe touchscreen on the android drives me bonkers sometimes too01:53
Sysaxed_capacitive touchscreens... :\01:54
ShadowJKI have vibration feedback turned on. It only works in specific apps. By specific apps I mean the virtual keyboard. Everywhere else you get no feedback.01:54
fastlane`i cudnt spend money on these tablets, but i guess i may on the 16gb nexus 7 ... for reading books in pdf01:54
fastlane`is there a CHM file reader on android01:54
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo01:55
ShadowJKHowever, sometimes in the middle of hte night, I get woken up by the tablet vibrating furiously, when it htinks that someone has touched it and activated touchscreen and is typing the next best-seller novel consisting of "aaaaaaasssssdddddffffghhhyyyuuuttrtrrrrrrfffffvvvnnnmmmm"01:55
*** caemir has joined #maemo01:55
ShadowJKThe lack of sufficiently large screen bezel is annoying01:56
ShadowJKbecause you have to hold it with your hand covering the touchscreen01:56
ShadowJKif your hand covers the touchscreen, it registers as an input01:56
ShadowJKSome apps consider that input a part of a "pinch to zoom" gesture or similar01:56
ShadowJKSo you can't actually scroll until you let go of the thing and make sure you're only touching it with one single body part01:57
fastlane`oh the pinch to zoom patent !!! apple think no one in the whole world cud have come up with it!01:57
ShadowJKThis actually varis between apps, some apps don't care about extra stuff, but most do.01:57
fastlane`going around suing companies01:57
fastlane`its reallllllly hard to get used to capacitive screens,01:58
ShadowJKIt woudl help if you'd get feedback02:00
ShadowJKN900 does this really well. The delay between touching screen, and vibrator acknowledging it, is reallyy low, and it's consitently really low02:01
ShadowJKAnd I'm using the quadcore tablet as comparison here.02:01
ShadowJKN800 and N810 had sound feedback, but the sound dsp on them were somewhat unreliable... :)02:02
fastlane`in the times of n810, i really wanted to buy it, i was soooooo fascinated by that device but i had no money02:04
fastlane`really awesome screen02:04
ShadowJKthe touch layer on N900 is much better02:05
ShadowJKBut on N800 and N810 screen, the touch layer is like 1mm or less above the display layer..really nice in that sense02:05
ShadowJKon N900 it feels a bit like the "window" you touch is a mile above the screen that produces the contents02:05
ShadowJKLike if you take stylus, and put it down on the screen on some specific point, and then look at it from different angles, you'll find that the point shifts location depending on the angle you look at the screen02:07
* ShadowJK still uses N800 and N810 :-)02:07
ShadowJKI bought a new microsd card for my N80002:09
*** xes has joined #maemo02:09
ShadowJKOne that has stellar random I/O performance02:09
fastlane`which one02:09
ShadowJKwith swap on it, the difference is like night and way02:09
ShadowJKiirc "A-data ultra speed"02:10
ShadowJK"AUSDH16GUI1-RA1     ADATA 16GB Ultra High Speed MicroSDHC"02:11
ShadowJKIt's not entirely reliable, it failed in my benchmarks. :-)02:11
ShadowJKSeems to work reliably enough in my N800 though, approaching 3 weeks of uptime02:12
Sysaxed_n900 has sound feedback too02:12
ShadowJKI think 1-2 week was the norm with the older cards, there the limit was mostly that the cards were so slow that watchdog kicked in02:12
fastlane`iirc adata has some very nice n affordable SSDs also,02:13
* fastlane` will get a ssd for his laptop .... one day !!!02:14
halXIhello, about n900 maemo, you know if repos are offline?02:14
xesam i wrong or the biggest a-data uSD is 32GB?02:15
*** etrunko has joined #maemo02:15
Sysaxed_halXI, they're not02:15
Sysaxed_I was installing different stuff the whole day02:15
xeshalXI: perfectly working...02:16
fastlane`apt-get update seems to be working fine02:16
fastlane`right now.02:16
Sysaxed_btw, how can I autostart something? Somehow google forgot maemo wiki pages so I can't find it :(02:16
halXIapt-get update tell me gpg keyexpired02:17
Sysaxed_halXI, as far as I remember it's fine02:17
xesShadowJK: i would buy a new 64GB uSD... (wikipedia is so big..) Which card do you suggest?02:18
halXIso it must be my phone02:18
fastlane`howcome i can find ADATA 16GB Ultra High Speed MicroSDHC on amazon's uk website but not on :o02:19
ShadowJKxes, 64g is beyond my affordabilty. For 16g I can afford buying a bunch of them and use the best I get.02:19
Sysaxed_anybody? what was that wiki page about upstart, event.d and other related stuff02:20
fastlane`and adata's promier pro 32gb usd card is for $77 :OOOO02:20
ShadowJKBut generally, if there's a sandisk android edition 64g, I'd probably try that one :-)02:20
fastlane`no go!02:20
*** louisdk has quit IRC02:20
halXI Sub-process bzip2 returned an error 102:20
xesShadowJK: thanks, i'll look for that..02:21
ShadowJKbtw, just because a company (like adata or sandisk) has 6 different speed of cards, doesn't mean that their "fastest" actually will be fastest. :-)02:21
fastlane` only one i can find Sysaxed_02:21
ShadowJKThe old sandisk Class 4 uSD card was the fastest card on the market at the time, beating competitor Class 10 cards easily, and beating sandisk's class 6 cards too :-)02:22
fastlane`time for me to hit the  bed02:23
ShadowJKThe new sandisk class 4 is woefully slow. :)02:23
xesAnd this one?
ShadowJKNo clue. You basically wont know until you get it.02:24
*** florian has quit IRC02:24
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo02:24
ShadowJKThere's a trend with UHS cards, they tend to perform really slow with SDHC hosts.02:24
ShadowJK(in some respects)02:25
ShadowJKThat adata card I mentioned, I only get 3MByte/s with it on N800, but it's still the fastest card I've used on N800 when I put the swapfile on it :-)02:25
ShadowJKIf you just want to store files on it, a non-UHS Class-10 Sandisk card is probably the best there is02:26
*** kerio_ has joined #maemo02:26
ShadowJKIf you want to try boost performance, the hunt is on :)02:26
xesi understand....considering the cost ad the risk..... the impression is that it would be better to wait some time for that size of memory card02:27
ShadowJKI have currently about 6  8 or 16 gig cards on order02:27
ShadowJKif any of them impress me, I'll get the 32 gig version and test that02:28
xesit's a race! :)02:28
ShadowJKSadly, all the "interesting" cards are hard to get :(02:28
*** kerio has quit IRC02:28
*** kerio_ is now known as kerio02:28
xesnow i'm using a lexar 32gb class 10... it's not bad but i didn't checked the real numbers with some benchmark02:29
halXInothing about Sub-process bzip2 returned an error 102:30
halXIfollowing signature invalid keyexpired 134924954602:31
ShadowJKxes, it's pretty hard to test, too02:33
xesi know, dd is not enough02:33
xesShadowJK: what are you using to make a comparison?02:34
*** hardaker has quit IRC02:34
ShadowJKI use coffeemug rebench on a sheevaplug to test random I/O perf02:35
ShadowJKI use flashbench on an atom machine for generic profiling02:35
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC02:37
Sysaxed_wtf.. is there any upstart example?02:38
xesShadowJK: interesting..i would test with this also my blade's iscsi ... sometimes i use ioperf but..i don't like it at all02:40
*** janemba_ has quit IRC02:40
*** nox- has quit IRC02:41
DocScrutinizer05nox-: before mosaic, I developed a viewer to display advertisements and citymaps etc on public touchscreen terminals, which we could dial up and feed new texts via modem. I think those had less than 32MB RAM02:41
*** halXI has quit IRC02:42
MentalistTraceurBtw, @ comment up above with the whole Android discussion about how it kills multitasking - it actually would be extremely easy for Android to not do that, Google just wrote Android like that. It's not Java itself that manages what Android app 'activities' get unloaded, afaik, but the Android task/activity management, whatever layer that's implemented in.02:45
*** kerio has quit IRC02:46
MentalistTraceurAnd I would guess just about every 3rd party browser uses Android's built-in webview class, so they'd have a hard time doing the only background-task-killing workaround I could think of for Android even if they tried.02:50
*** Martix has quit IRC02:50
*** kerio has joined #maemo02:50
MentalistTraceurOf course, my Android developing skills are fairly limited as well, so there might be work-arounds an 'app' could do that I'm unaware of...02:51
*** kerio has quit IRC02:52
HurrianMentalistTraceur: IIRC, you'll simply have to put whatever task you need to run as a service02:54
*** kerio has joined #maemo02:54
Hurrianlike the terminal emulators, the UI is part of the main activity, and the terminal window is a service02:55
MentalistTraceurHurrian, yes, and that was what I was thinking of, however, the discussion I am responding to had to do with browser tabs 'forgetting' the tabs they had loaded when they've not been the foreground tab for a while.02:56
*** tank-man has quit IRC02:56
Hurrianhmm, it's as if no browser on Android has ever heard of Javascript pausing02:56
MentalistTraceurWhich led me to the thought that to save that in a service, you'd have to somehow get the service to store that webpage in memory.02:57
MentalistTraceurWhich would be great, except Android provided a very easy to use 'webview' class for coding, which in no way exposes the actual webpage itself as far as I know. So if most browsers use that for rendering, the developers of those browsers wouldn't be able to do that...02:58
HurrianMentalistTraceur: the main activity can probably just fork a service per tab, freeze itself, and simply call back to the pages once someone brings the browser window back up02:58
Hurrianoh, if those webpages are dynamic though, and take the WiFilock, the battery life is simply going to go down the drain.02:59
*** kerio has quit IRC03:00
Hurriancan Android suspend services? seems like that's the best option - fork services for each tab, once the main browser window gets killed/frozen the tabs get frozen, and resumed when the browser gets brought up again03:00
Hurrianthis really shouldn't be a problem in the age where most high-end Android devices have upwards of 1GB RAM03:01
*** mvp_ has quit IRC03:01
MentalistTraceurMy concern is I don't think that service for that tab will be able to actually get at the webpage data - that's handled by the WebView class.03:02
HurrianI just looked it up, and it seems that you cannot run a Webview inside a service.03:03
MentalistTraceurSo when the Tab's activity is killed (by Android doing its usual background task gutting), the service will still live, but the tab's activity's WebView element will have been killed, loosing that data and needing a reload next time you get to the tab.03:03
*** kerio has joined #maemo03:03
HurrianMentalistTraceur: that's more inefficient than "saving a list of open pages", which most browsers do nowadays03:04
MentalistTraceurYou can't run any View-derived class in a service in Android. As a rule of thumb, any class that deal with showing things on the screen can't go in a service.03:05
HurrianIIRC, Chrome for Android has a limited ability to store the webpages in open tabs and restore them after the process has been killed - it stores the page into cache, and redraws them (and restores scroll position, but not entered data)03:05
MentalistTraceurPerhaps, but Google has a privileged position as far as coding that app goes.03:06
Hurriannah, I just think thats one way of faking suspend-resume ability03:06
MentalistTraceurAll of the above said though, if an Android browser dev wrote their own web rendering engine, THEN they could get around the Android background-task killing as far as webpages having to reload goes.03:08
MentalistTraceur*Shrug* Whatever, long-live actual properly multi-tasking phone OSs.03:09
jon_yanybody know how to type the '>' in rescueOS?03:14
jon_ywifi support is kind of pointless if you can't create wlan.cfg for passwords03:15
jon_ykerio: ping03:15
xesjon_y: ">" way from device...03:16
MentalistTraceurjon_y, try shift+(left-arrow)?03:16
keriojon_y: shift+right arrow i think03:16
MentalistTraceurI'm just guessing, btw.03:16
jon_ywill try03:16
MentalistTraceurOr fn+(left-arrow)?03:16
jon_ysweet, fn+arrow03:17
jon_yok, now it says root is read-only03:18
jon_yfor /wlan.cfg03:18
*** kerio has quit IRC03:18
jon_ysafe to mount / -o remount,rw?03:18
MentalistTraceurProbably, I honestly never worked with RescueOS03:19
*** kerio has joined #maemo03:19
MentalistTraceurBut if you have to modify /wlan.cfg, I figure you might as well. If you're in RescueOS, there's a decent chance you don't have much to lose.03:20
jon_ynope, remount still readonly03:20
keriorescueos runs in a cramfs, it's read only03:20
kerioyou have to bindmount from tmpfs03:20
keriothe scripts in /rescueOS/ do that03:20
jon_yah ok, these should go in the rescueOS docs03:20
jon_yor at least get the wifi script to ask for password directly03:21
MentalistTraceurYay, someone who knows RescueOS is here to take over.03:21
jon_ybtw, other key combo I found is fn+symb = tab03:22
jon_yfor auto complete03:22
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo03:22
jon_ykerio: for rw bind remount, how do you do that?03:23
MentalistTraceurCool. (Though ctrl-i is treated as a tab by most shells anyway).03:23
keriojon_y: beats me03:23
keriolook at the scripts03:23
jon_ymount --bind / /tmp/somedir?03:23
kerioew, no03:23
jon_yI hope less/more is installed, or vi :)03:23
keriobesides, you'd want unionfs or something similar for that03:23
jon_yok, how am I supposed to > /wlan.cfg?03:24
kerioask NIN10103:24
jon_yhmm, he's offline03:24
MentalistTraceurRescueOS should really involve more rescue and less obscure filesystem wankery.03:25
*** eMHa has quit IRC03:25
MentalistTraceurNot that I'd necessarily code it any better...03:25
MentalistTraceurHold up, if you're trying to redirect some output into /wlan.cfg, couldn't you just direct that output to another file, then use/run that file instead?03:27
MentalistTraceurI.e. a file you can write to, like /tmp/randomfilename03:27
*** xes has quit IRC03:34
*** ieatlint has quit IRC03:34
*** ieatlint has joined #maemo03:35
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC03:36
*** eijk_ has quit IRC03:37
*** _InvalidHandle_ has joined #maemo03:41
*** rcg has quit IRC03:41
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo03:43
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC03:50
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: just got an email from Rambo/Nemein for key exchange, he was talking like there will be more admins server sided for tmo... "one of the admins of tmo" is that for the move or did I miss on something03:55
DocScrutinizer05that's for the move03:55
DocScrutinizer05reggie gets root access to do the migration this very weekend03:56
DocScrutinizer05and I'll get root eventually, just because ... ;-)03:56
MentalistTraceurI wanna haz root just because.03:59
DocScrutinizer05or because I'm admin-coordinator03:59
DocScrutinizer05and thus will hand out accounts to MentalistTraceur and others, when needed04:00
DocScrutinizer05ooh, and I need to appoint a stand-in, in case I get hit by a bus, I guess04:01
DocScrutinizer05well, for tmo that's you for now, chem|st04:01
DocScrutinizer05since you also have full root access04:01
MentalistTraceurBy the way Joerg, Eero clarified on email that he was talking about the old DNS changes we requested, when he said Nokia started moving on the DNS issue.04:03
DocScrutinizer05yes, I answered that mail04:03
MentalistTraceurAh, I see.04:03
DocScrutinizer05I'd think Nokia would like to pass domain ownership to HiFo04:04
MentalistTraceurYes, but Nokia is like a glacier of bureaucracy.04:04
DocScrutinizer05no idea what been agreed upon bewteen hiFo and Nokia regarding that04:04
MentalistTraceurIt'll get there... eventually.04:04
DocScrutinizer05we'll see what's going to happen04:05
DocScrutinizer05whatever it will be, it won't kill us04:05
*** dos1 has quit IRC04:06
DocScrutinizer05if users can't access tmo anymore, they will be smart enough to have a look at and there they will find what's going on and how to deal with it04:07
*** Aoyagi has left #maemo04:08
*** Openfree has joined #maemo04:12
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: Jaffa: good topic for next MWKN as well: announce tmo migration happening during the week, and possible implications of old URL pointing to nowhere resp to a server that's in zombie state04:14
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: ah I was thinking of the tmo-admin access... but yes I need full root-access... didn't think about that04:16
*** kolp_ has joined #maemo04:16
chem|styou wanted me to look after a server as much as I have time right...04:16
chem|stthanks for the mail04:18
*** kolp has quit IRC04:19
MentalistTraceurAlright, I'm head off IRC for the day.04:20
*** MentalistTraceur has quit IRC04:20
*** Hurrian has quit IRC04:26
*** Openfree has quit IRC04:34
*** kolp_ has quit IRC04:34
*** etrunko has quit IRC04:36
jon_yso, ubi0:rootfs is the root04:37
jon_ywhere is the home dir from?04:37
jon_yI'm trying to mount it in rescueOS04:38
jon_yhmm, some hints on google say /dev/mmcblk0p104:39
DocScrutinizer05 /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback)04:40
DocScrutinizer05 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir)04:41
*** eichi has joined #maemo04:43
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: lastly is there a way to grab the contacts?04:45
jon_yphone numbers etc04:45
jon_yand maybe sms04:46
*** disco_stu has quit IRC04:49
chem|stjon_y: phonebook is in .osso-abook04:50
jon_yI'd be willing to work on RescueOS for repayment04:50
chem|stjon_y: and .rtcom-eventlogger for msgs afaict04:53
*** aap has joined #maemo04:54
jon_ychem|st: you mean sms?04:56
*** Theorbo has joined #maemo04:59
jon_yvery nice, sms contact in sqlite form04:59
jon_ynot so much for the actual phonebook data though04:59
jon_ybut I'm cool with extracting it with strings(1)04:59
cehtehits an sqlite db .. you can use the sqlite tools to dump it as text/sql05:00
cehtehor even prints it in some formatted way05:00
*** maybeWTF has joined #maemo05:01
jon_ycehteh: you mean the phonebook data?05:01
jon_ymy sqlite tools don't seem to like it05:01
jon_ysomething about closed sets05:01
cehtehmhm .. am i wrong then?05:02
jon_yno idea05:02
chem|stshould be sqlite05:02
jon_y.rtcom stuff is in sqlite05:02
chem|stboth should be in sqlite05:02
jon_y.osso seems to be some custom db05:02
jon_yI'll try again soon05:02
jon_yfor now, I will embark on a quest to find the great Nokia 331005:03
jon_yor anything equivalent05:03
TheorboAnyone know how much an unopened N950 is worth?05:03
jon_y1000-ish euros05:03
cehteh$1 .. i take it :)05:04
*** maybeHere has quit IRC05:04
chem|stTheorbo: 1000+eur on ebay...05:04
chem|stin netto actualy nothing but 5euros...05:05
*** Muelli has quit IRC05:06
*** Pali has quit IRC05:06
*** zhxt has joined #maemo05:16
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo05:23
*** _InvalidHandle_ has quit IRC05:26
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo05:27
*** eichi has quit IRC05:43
*** guampa has quit IRC05:44
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo05:55
*** thedead1440_ has joined #maemo05:57
*** Sysaxed_ has quit IRC05:58
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC06:00
*** lxp has joined #maemo06:01
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC06:03
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo06:03
*** lxp1 has quit IRC06:04
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo06:22
*** hardaker has joined #maemo06:33
*** uen has quit IRC06:34
*** uen has joined #maemo06:34
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo06:40
*** radic has quit IRC06:43
*** radic_ has joined #maemo06:43
*** at1as has quit IRC06:54
*** thedead1440_ has quit IRC06:58
*** Psi has quit IRC07:08
*** Psi has joined #maemo07:11
*** janemba_ has quit IRC07:30
*** robink_ is now known as robink07:31
*** githogori has quit IRC07:38
*** githogori has joined #maemo07:49
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo07:54
*** Estel_ has quit IRC07:54
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo07:54
*** Hurrian has quit IRC08:01
*** Termana has quit IRC08:16
*** larrfed has quit IRC08:40
*** larrfed has joined #maemo08:41
*** hardaker has quit IRC08:42
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC08:44
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo08:49
*** Termana has joined #maemo08:50
*** Termana is now known as Guest6295208:50
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC09:00
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo09:00
*** tank-man has joined #maemo09:05
*** HtheB has joined #maemo09:16
HtheBcan anyone configrm is the Audio in Qt for Maemo is supported or not?09:16
HtheBconfirm if*09:18
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo09:43
merlin1991HtheB: it should work09:52
merlin1991if it doesn't hit the guys over in #maemo-ssu and we might provide a fix with the next cssu update09:52
HtheBcheck the last post09:53
merlin1991hm intresting, I can have a look in the qt sources somewhere next week, but you'll probably want your answer earlier :D09:56
HtheBno problem09:56
HtheBwell, its to point out to pali09:56
HtheBthat afaik, it should work now09:56
HtheBsome guy is trying to port the psp emulator to harmattan09:57
HtheBbut he gets some audio errors afaiu09:57
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC10:16
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo10:19
*** Superpelican has joined #maemo10:25
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC10:26
*** sasquatch has quit IRC10:29
*** sasquatch has joined #maemo10:29
*** rcg has joined #maemo10:31
*** doc|home has quit IRC10:33
*** Theorbo has quit IRC10:35
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC10:40
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: URL to announcement about it?10:43
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo10:49
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo10:49
*** Superpelican has quit IRC10:51
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC10:51
*** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo10:54
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC11:08
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo11:09
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo11:09
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo11:10
*** florian has joined #maemo11:16
*** ced117 has joined #maemo11:24
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo11:24
GeneralAntillesHoo boy.11:24
GeneralAntilles"greater good"11:24
thedead1440so now a Councilor is just a "community member" while the BoD is above all? Wow...11:26
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo11:29
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo11:29
*** WizardNumberNext has joined #maemo11:31
*** Darkchaos has joined #maemo11:32
*** pcfe has quit IRC11:33
*** eichi has joined #maemo11:33
*** mk8 has joined #maemo11:34
*** mk8 has joined #maemo11:34
*** rcg has quit IRC11:35
*** pcfe has joined #maemo11:36
*** pcfe has joined #maemo11:36
*** pcfe` has quit IRC11:38
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo11:45
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo11:45
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo11:45
*** pcfe has quit IRC11:48
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo11:50
*** jrocha has joined #maemo11:50
*** Gryllida has quit IRC11:50
*** otep_ has joined #maemo11:53
*** otep has quit IRC11:54
*** Superpelican has joined #maemo11:55
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC12:00
*** mvp_ has quit IRC12:02
*** janemba_ has quit IRC12:03
*** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo12:05
*** Martix has joined #maemo12:07
*** xes has joined #maemo12:09
*** unclouded has quit IRC12:12
*** toxaris has joined #maemo12:14
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC12:15
*** Pali has joined #maemo12:17
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC12:18
*** rcg has joined #maemo12:18
*** MetalGearSolid00 has quit IRC12:22
*** MetalGearSolid00 has joined #maemo12:22
*** kolp has joined #maemo12:22
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo12:22
fluxis there some camera application around for n900 with both sources and ability to refocus?12:26
fluxusing the standard camera subsystem that is, fcam does exist..12:26
*** sq-one has joined #maemo12:26
*** Martix has quit IRC12:27
fluxI suppose fcam will do fine for me, though :)12:28
tadzikis there any info in maemo system logs where did the last charging occur?12:29
tadzikseems that dmesg has something12:30
keriotadzik: maemo has no logs unless you install syslog12:31
tadzikI see. Thanks12:32
*** Superpelican has quit IRC12:39
*** f3bruary has joined #maemo12:41
*** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo12:41
*** Superpelican has joined #maemo12:47
f3bruarykerio: va bene12:48
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: ping12:48
f3bruaryI thought you were italian12:48
kerioi am12:48
f3bruaryva bene ?12:48
kerioif you mean "what's up" you should ask something like "come va?"12:49
kerioand yeah, everything alright12:50
f3bruaryI use va bene most of the time and people just say yeah and you ?12:50
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo12:50
f3bruaryso I assumed it to be correct12:51
chem|stf3bruary: that is more like "ok"12:51
f3bruaryturns out the xtube fix is not really working well12:52
kerioit's the kind of phrase that, while being wrong or at least a bit weird, would still be perfectly understood when spoken out loud by a foreigner :)12:52
*** mk8 has quit IRC12:52
*** XATRIX has quit IRC12:56
*** janemba_ has quit IRC13:02
*** rcg has quit IRC13:03
*** toxarisswe has joined #maemo13:06
*** toxarisswe has joined #maemo13:06
*** toxaris has quit IRC13:08
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC13:10
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo13:23
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo13:31
*** Muelli has joined #maemo13:31
*** florian has quit IRC13:39
*** croppa has quit IRC13:42
*** Martix has joined #maemo13:53
*** kerio has quit IRC13:57
*** kerio has joined #maemo14:00
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC14:00
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo14:00
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: in RescueOS, mmc blocks for SD and mtd are swapped14:05
jon_yso, mmcblk0 SD slot, mmcblk1 system emmc14:05
*** toxarisswe has quit IRC14:05
*** toxaris has joined #maemo14:05
*** user has quit IRC14:06
*** Jaded has quit IRC14:15
*** Jade has joined #maemo14:17
*** Jade has quit IRC14:17
*** Jade has joined #maemo14:17
*** reenignEesreveR- has quit IRC14:21
*** reenignEesreveR- has joined #maemo14:22
*** lunde has joined #maemo14:28
*** lunde has left #maemo14:28
*** pvanhoof_ has joined #maemo14:42
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC14:43
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo14:43
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC14:44
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo14:47
*** pcfe` is now known as pcfe14:48
*** tetzco has joined #maemo14:48
*** infobot has quit IRC14:50
*** Superpelican has quit IRC14:57
*** janemba_ has quit IRC15:02
grummundAny tips before applying a screen protector?15:03
freemangordondo it in a dust-free environment15:04
*** Aoyagi has joined #maemo15:04
keriogrummund: bathroom, run the shower with scalding hot water15:04
kerioso the air becomes humid and the dust drops from the air15:05
grummundshould i clean the screen with anything first?15:05
grummundit's quite scratched already15:06
freemangordonyes, clean it15:07
grummundthe film cames with a cleaning clith15:07
freemangordonand don;t worry about the scratches, screen protector will make most of them invisible15:07
freemangordonyou'd better find the one that came with the device15:07
grummundi have some anti-static foam cleaner15:07
freemangordonyou rist foam to enter into device15:08
freemangordonthat will ruin it15:08
grummundi can apply a small amount to the cloth first15:08
thedead1440how about alcohol wipes?15:08
freemangordonthedead1440: moist from your breat is all that you need15:09
*** HtheB has quit IRC15:10
grummundheh. i have been alchol free since before xmas15:10
*** HtheB has joined #maemo15:11
Hurrianwhoa, that's all pretty extreme15:20
HurrianI use packing tape to pick up the dust and stickify the surface for the protector15:21
*** otep_ is now known as otep15:23
Lava_Croftjust use the same type of cloths they use to clean glasses15:24
Lava_Croftthose are perfect for the job15:24
Lava_Croftor, if you have an imac around15:24
Lava_CroftApple's cleaning cloths are king (no joke)15:24
grummundAll done, and snug in its new case too :)15:24
Lava_Croftnokia case?15:25
grummundnah, imitation leather. With a free screen protector, all for 99p. :D15:26
grummundincluding shipping :D15:26
Lava_CroftCP-408 is the king of n900 cases15:26
grummundyebbut pricey though15:27
grummundyeah like that's 20x what i paid :p15:28
grummund1 left in stock15:29
Lava_Crofti had a case like that at first, it died in a week15:29
Lava_Croftnot exactly the same, but also a cheap one15:29
keriootterbox or nothing15:31
Lava_Croftthat doesnt protect the screen iirc15:31
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo15:34
*** Superpelican has joined #maemo15:34
*** pvanhoof_ has quit IRC15:47
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo15:49
*** mvp_ has quit IRC15:50
*** konelix has joined #maemo15:51
keriootterbox+screen protector15:53
Lava_Croftlol screen protector15:53
Lava_Croftthe name suggests it protects15:53
Lava_Croftbut it protects as well as normal condoms do when having anal sex15:53
Lava_Croftwhich isnt very much15:53
*** sirdancealot7 has quit IRC15:56
*** dos1 has joined #maemo15:57
*** janemba_ has quit IRC16:00
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo16:04
*** XDS2010_ has quit IRC16:06
*** timeless has quit IRC16:06
*** konelix has quit IRC16:10
*** konelix has joined #maemo16:10
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo16:11
*** wirr has joined #maemo16:11
*** at1as has joined #maemo16:14
*** Smily has quit IRC16:15
*** hardaker has joined #maemo16:17
*** muellisoft has joined #maemo16:23
*** dhbiker has quit IRC16:23
*** freemangordon has quit IRC16:24
*** Muelli has quit IRC16:26
*** muelli has joined #maemo16:34
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo16:35
*** muellisoft has quit IRC16:36
*** stardiviner has quit IRC16:37
*** at1as has quit IRC16:38
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo16:41
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo16:41
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC16:43
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo16:44
*** ashley1 has joined #maemo16:46
*** ced117 has quit IRC16:46
*** ashley1 has left #maemo16:47
*** florian has joined #maemo16:48
*** janemba_ has quit IRC16:49
*** tomreyn has joined #maemo16:50
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo16:51
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC16:51
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo16:51
*** ced117 has joined #maemo16:52
tomreynhi, i'm using maemo on n900 including the community updates (which I appreciate very much).16:53
tomreyni'd like to disable certain CA's, though, which doesn't seem to be possible using the GUI. can you help me as to find out how to disable a CA (or revoke trust)?16:53
tomreynalso, i'm wondering which web browser people use / recommend. i'd like to use one which receives security updates.16:55
*** XDS2010_ has joined #maemo16:55
thedead1440tomreyn: you may want to look at this post:
*** stardiviner has quit IRC16:56
tomreynand on yet another topic: prints a database error, revealing the database it is trying to access as well as the DB user: from within function "SiteStatsUpdate::doUpdate". Database returned error "1142: UPDATE command denied to user 'wikiuser_ro'@'wml0234' for table 'mw_site_stats' (".16:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: infobot down16:59
tomreynthedead1440: thanks for the forums link, this should help. do you think this method will persist on CA updates?16:59
keriotomreyn: use cmcli to change the cert db16:59
thedead1440tomreyn: the wiki is down so you need to add into your hosts file the following entry: wiki.maemo.org17:00
thedead1440s/down/being migrated/17:00
*** timeless has joined #maemo17:00
tomreynkerio: thanks, that's basically what the script in the forums does (amongst also updating the, apparently separate, microb CA store.17:00
keriothere's no need to change the microb CA store17:01
tomreynkerio: so it's sourced from the same backend as the one cmcli operates on?17:01
keriolibmaemosec-certman0 diverts /usr/lib/microb-engine/ away, and supplies its own17:02
keriotomreyn: blacklisting is probably better than deleting, fyi17:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: ssh: connect to host port 22: Connection timed out17:04
*** _rd has joined #maemo17:04
tomreynkerio: can you explain how to blacklist? using cmcli, i assume? i'm just looking at the usage output and it doesn't meantion "disable" or "editing trust"17:05
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I cannot connect to our new serrver...17:05
chem|stsry cannot 'logon' to it17:05
DocScrutinizer05I have no access yet17:05
keriotomreyn: you have to add it to the "blacklist" domain17:06
kerioask merlin1991 for details17:06
tomreynoh, got it17:06
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ping reggie, maybe he's messing around there17:06
keriohe's the one that made the last maemosec update17:06
tomreynmuch appreciated that one17:07
tomreynjust like diginotar's17:07
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I tried to logon minutes after I got the ip17:07
merlin1991tomreyn: cmcli -c blacklist -a pathtocert17:07
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo17:07
merlin1991cmmcli -c common-ca -r certid17:07
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo17:07
keriomerlin1991: what happens if a certificate is in both?17:07
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I replied to rambo's mail17:09
keriooh, you didn't remove anything from common-ca because the intermediate CAs weren't in the common-ca list17:09
*** konelix has quit IRC17:09
*** konelix has joined #maemo17:09
*** Superpelican has quit IRC17:10
tomreynkerio: can you explain the concepts of private vs shared domains? i assume private is for internal / organisation CAs?17:10
kerioi have no idea actually17:11
tomreyni.e. when you have your own internal PKI17:11
kerioyou could try adding a certificate with the applet17:11
kerioto see where it ends up17:11
keriothe applet in Settings17:11
DocScrutinizer05infobo: wb17:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wat17:12
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-12 16:11:27] [Notify] infobot is online (
kerioi see17:12
*** zhxt has quit IRC17:12
*** infobot has joined #maemo17:12
infobotkerio: :)17:13
*** janemba_ has quit IRC17:13
tomreynwell thanks everyone. about the web browser: which one do you use and why? and is there any one which gets security updates, or updates at all?17:13
keriotomreyn: microB gets security updates from cssu :)17:14
tomreynit does? i never noticed17:14
keriosecond "distribution" in the world to fix the turktrust issue :)17:14
kerioer, third17:14
keriofirst and second were mozilla and m$17:15
tomreynbase don what i read Ms actually didnt revoke it yet17:15
kerionobody removed the turktrust CA17:15
tomreynor just provides a patch which is not shipped universally17:15
keriothey just blacklisted the two affected intermediate CAs17:16
tomreynwell i did ;)17:16
tomreynthey lost my trust if i had any in them before17:16
tomreynbut "revoke" is a very wrong term in this context indeed17:17
*** NeutrinoPower has joined #maemo17:28
NeutrinoPowerdoes someone use evopedia? I don't know what wikipedia-dump I have to download and evopedia cannot download it via bittorrent...17:29
tomreyni guess the idea is that you download it to your desktop using bittorrent and then move it to the maemo device using a data cable or similar17:32
tomreynthe dumps' torrent files are available on their website17:32
tomreynpretty outdated though17:32
tomreynit would seem like evopedia needs a different format than the one provided by wikimedia17:34
tomreyn"Evopedia dump at home combines the processing power of various computers around the globe to create Wikipedia database dumps for use in the offline Wikipedia reader evopedia."17:34
NeutrinoPowerdoes it work with this dumps?
tomreyn<tomreyn> it would seem like evopedia needs a different format than the one provided by wikimedia17:36
tomreynbased on past releases, you can probably expect the evopedia people to update the english database within the next two months.17:37
tomreynthe latest release of the english wikipedia dates back to early 2012. german is more current in case you prefer this.17:38
NeutrinoPowerI want both17:39
*** muelli has quit IRC17:39
*** tetzco has quit IRC17:40
tomreynhmm german is 3.9 TB while english is just  670 MB17:40
*** caemir has left #maemo17:40
tomreynoh thats wrong17:40
*** kolp has quit IRC17:40
tomreynEN is 13.8 GB :)17:40
*** shanttu has joined #maemo17:42
WizardNumberNexttomreyn: do you like it so far?17:47
WizardNumberNexteverybody involved in KP project: what do you think about preempt-rt on N900? Will it improve anything or ruin expeperience instead?17:50
tomreynWizardNumberNext: i like what?17:51
WizardNumberNextI am going to try out RT-kernel on my server (mind its amd64) and see how it behaves (NFS and SAMBA gets slow sometimes on no preemtion). I run all my x86 (centrino and 2 AMD Phenom II) on no preemption at the time17:52
*** kolp has joined #maemo17:52
WizardNumberNexttomreyn: evopedia17:52
tomreynWizardNumberNext: i'm not using it, it takes too much space.17:53
WizardNumberNexttomreyn: if it stores all tis on your HDD, then that sucks17:54
tomreynwell thats the point17:54
tomreynso you dont have to be online17:54
WizardNumberNextI could store it on my server, but after I fix my 1TB drives and they sit, ready to be fixed on shelf for something like 2 months17:55
WizardNumberNexttomreyn: that is not my issue - I have 'all you can eat data', so I do not care about data17:56
tomreynwikimedia already stores the data on their servers thanks to the many donations they receive, it's called wikipedia.org17:56
WizardNumberNextyes, wikipedia does the job, at least ost of the times17:57
*** _rd has quit IRC18:08
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC18:08
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC18:08
*** thedead1440 has joined #maemo18:08
*** markinfo has joined #maemo18:19
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo18:26
freemangordonShadowJK: is that ok?
freemangordonSamsung 64GB Pro UHS-118:27
*** jacekowski has joined #maemo18:29
kerioholy balls18:29
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo18:30
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC18:30
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo18:30
freemangordonkerio: ?18:30
*** Superpelican has joined #maemo18:30
keriofreemangordon: those random writes18:31
freemangordonyeah :D18:31
jacekowskibtw. have you seen nokia financial numbers18:31
*** _rd has joined #maemo18:31
keriofreemangordon: try writing 64gb of random data over it first, though18:31
kerioto make sure it's not cheating18:31
freemangordonjacekowski: btw it was you with doxbox, ain't?18:32
freemangordonkerio:, I guess it is not18:32
jacekowskifreemangordon: ?18:32
freemangordonkerio: i'd rather do random write test wint 1GB18:32
kerioalso run the same test on the n900 itself, too :)18:33
freemangordonjacekowski: was it you the dosbox maintainer18:33
freemangordonkerio: how?18:33
keriowine, ofc18:33
keriothere must be an IO benchmark for linux18:33
jacekowskifreemangordon: no18:34
freemangordonjacekowski: ok, sorry18:34
freemangordonaah, it was javispedro :)18:34
freemangordonkerio: there is, iozone iirc18:35
keriofreemangordon: 64gb swap partition gogogogogo18:35
*** Superpelican has quit IRC18:38
*** _rd has quit IRC18:38
*** xes has quit IRC18:40
*** _rd has joined #maemo18:40
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC18:42
*** XenGi_ has quit IRC18:43
*** markinfo has quit IRC18:44
freemangordonkerio: btw benchmark is made with card in n900 connected via usb18:49
*** XenGi has joined #maemo18:49
keriooh, good enough then, i suppose18:49
freemangordonyep. I guess we can't go more than 10MB/s anyway. but random write is impressive18:50
freemangordon*write speed18:50
*** sq-one has quit IRC18:51
SpeedEvilI note that I got 24mbyte read using emmc and SD18:54
SpeedEvila leetle more if you use one nand too18:55
freemangordonSpeedEvil: on device?18:55
SpeedEvilconcurrent dad's18:55
freemangordonI guess it depends on io scheduler settings. I did the test with stock settings18:56
freemangordonthough I don't think sequental io matters much on n90018:57
SpeedEvilstock here too19:04
*** janemba_ has joined #maemo19:04
freemangordoncould you givme the commend?19:04
freemangordonto run it here19:04
SpeedEviljust something like time dd if=... of=/dev/null bs=131072 count=a gigs worth19:05
freemangordonSpeedEvil: iostat reports ~15500KB/s19:08
SpeedEvilas I understant it, 25mhz is the maximum clock19:10
SpeedEvilso 12.5 will be the hard maximum performance19:10
freemangordonafaik it is 50MHz, but could be wrong19:11
freemangordondd of=./tst if=/dev/zero bs=131072 count=65536, iostat reports between 4000 and 10000 KB/s19:11
freemangordondoing the same with bs=4096 increases write speed to ~14000KB/s19:13
freemangordonhmm I like that card :D19:14
ShadowJKfreemangordon; empty card?19:14
freemangordonShadowJK: what is the difference?19:15
ShadowJKYeah I get 200-ish IOPS on blank sandisk class 4 too, collapses to 1-2 once all pages have been touched19:15
freemangordonI guess it will take a while until all 64GB of pages got touched :)19:16
freemangordonShadowJK: any idea how to test random io on the device?19:16
ShadowJKI was trying to compile coffeemug rebench the other day, but got stuck on libaio19:17
freemangordonwell, i guess i can run ubuntu installer and check what iostat reports then19:18
freemangordoni'll rerun diskmark random write with 1GB file19:22
ShadowJKhow long does the benchmark run?19:23
ShadowJKdoes it keep file around?19:23
freemangordonyes, it keeps the file19:23
freemangordonbot I will watch iostat in the meantime ;)19:23
freemangordonfinished ;)19:24
ShadowJKI magine if you ran it 5-10 minutes on same file it'd start declining19:24
freemangordonRandom Read 4KB (QD=1) :     2.407 MB/s [   587.7 IOPS]19:24
freemangordonRandom Write 4KB (QD=1) :     1.086 MB/s [   265.0 IOPS]19:24
freemangordoni'll run it again19:25
freemangordonoh, no, it creates new file every time :(19:25
ShadowJKhow long does it take to run once?19:26
freemangordon1-2 minutes19:26
freemangordoni guess I can set the benchmark what to do, lemme check19:27
freemangordonno, I can't :(19:28
freemangordonok, sekomd run, same results19:28
*** HtheB has quit IRC19:28
freemangordonwell, i'll partition the card and will put it in my primary, will benchmark again in a week or so19:28
freemangordonShadowJK: how many iop/s was your data?19:30
ShadowJKabout 20 in steady state19:31
ShadowJKthat is I ran benchmark in one-minute chunks until numbers settled19:31
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC19:32
*** HtheB has joined #maemo19:34
freemangordonShadowJK: or i'll create 1GB partition and will use it19:36
ShadowJKWould be interesting to test whether blanking stuff outside the 1G speeds  the 1G19:40
*** gomiam has joined #maemo19:40
wirrhi everybody - how's the migration progressing? i've seen you published new wiki's ip addr...19:42
*** loganbr has joined #maemo19:43
*** HtheB has quit IRC19:45
*** wirr has quit IRC19:54
*** wirr has joined #maemo19:55
*** Luke-Jr has quit IRC20:04
*** Luke-Jr has joined #maemo20:05
keriowirr: still waiting for the dns change from nokia afaik20:06
wirrkerio: looks like... Tech Email:hostmaster@nokia.com20:09
wirrName Server:NS.NOKIA.COM20:09
wirr(whois for
wirryou know how funding's proceeding? what's more needed, money or sponsoring ISPs providing hosting or housing?20:09
keriohm, idk20:10
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo20:12
WizardNumberNexttwo questions: n900: maximal SD(hc/xc) size?20:15
WizardNumberNextand wine? how the hell it work? does it emulates x86?20:15
keriowine doesn't work, really20:17
kerioafaik there's no qemu+wine combination in the repos20:18
WizardNumberNextkerio: that is what I was thinking20:18
keriothe "wine" in extras-devel is to run recompiled windows applications compiled against the wine libs20:19
*** WizardNumberNext has quit IRC20:19
*** WizardNumberNext has joined #maemo20:20
*** konelix has quit IRC20:21
*** shanttu has quit IRC20:23
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot20:26
DocScrutinizer05wirr: money more needed, and particularly a professional sysop needed20:27
ShadowJKWizardNumberNext; well freemangordon is using a 64g card. do 128 ones exist?20:29
ShadowJKI'm guessing exfat doesn't work though :)20:32
*** trx has quit IRC20:33
*** unclouded has joined #maemo20:38
*** rooster_rus has joined #maemo20:41
*** gomiam has quit IRC20:53
PaliShadowJK, format it as ext3 (or if you have kernel-power as ext4)20:57
PaliI think that the best filesystem for SD cards is ext420:57
ShadowJKOn sheevaplug I use nilfs220:58
*** fastlane` has quit IRC20:58
Palithere is some side effect in ext4 implementation which cause better performace as ext3 for sd cards...20:58
Paliexfat is from design step back20:59
PaliI really do not understand why they chosed it as *default* filesystem for SDXC21:00
SpeedEvilwhat else?21:02
SpeedEvilext2/4/... are not supported on most computers21:02
Paliand is exfat supported?21:04
Paliand is exfat better then other FS?21:04
Paliand is there exfat specification?21:04
Paliis there reference implementation (portable for other systems)?21:05
Palireally, as replacement for old fat32 which is supported on more computer is UDF21:06
Palithere is not stupid 4GB limit, so as filesystem for backup/storage is usable21:06
SpeedEviland yes, it's retarded21:06
Paliand UDF is supported on lot of system and configurations21:07
SpeedEvilfundamentally, Microsoft is an using its monopoly posaition,.21:07
Paliits funny that nobody written ext4 driver for windows21:09
Palibut there exists more ext4 implementations in other non windows systems...21:10
SpeedEvilI assume there is fine21:10
SpeedEvilI was using one back in 1995ish21:10
SpeedEvilwell. ext221:10
Paliext2 is here21:10
Pali(and usable for ext3 without journal)21:11
Palibut writing with ext2 driver to ext4 is not working...21:11
*** guampa has joined #maemo21:21
ShadowJKhm, UDF.. wonder if that would work on sd..21:24
*** nox- has joined #maemo21:25
keriosure, why not21:27
keriowell, probably not on windows21:27
*** WizardNumberNext has quit IRC21:40
ShadowJKI vaguely recall trying to use udf on -rw, not successful :)21:41
*** konelix has joined #maemo21:41
*** eichi has quit IRC21:54
*** fastlane` has joined #maemo21:58
*** trx has joined #maemo22:05
*** wirr has quit IRC22:05
*** wirr has joined #maemo22:06
*** thedead1440 has quit IRC22:14
*** tetzco has joined #maemo22:16
*** perlite_ has joined #maemo22:27
*** kerio has quit IRC22:28
*** perlite has quit IRC22:28
*** perlite_ is now known as perlite22:29
*** kerio has joined #maemo22:29
*** kov_ has joined #maemo22:30
*** aloril has quit IRC22:40
*** pInvoke has joined #maemo22:50
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo22:53
*** wmarone has quit IRC22:54
*** kov_ has quit IRC22:57
*** wmarone has joined #maemo23:01
*** eichi has joined #maemo23:04
*** _rd has quit IRC23:16
*** DocAvalanche has quit IRC23:19
*** DocScrutinizer51 has joined #maemo23:19
*** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC23:19
*** DocScrutinizer51 has joined #maemo23:19
*** rcg has joined #maemo23:22
kerioDocScrutinizer51: srsly, set up sasl23:28
*** konelix has quit IRC23:28
keriocuz it's cool!23:29
kerioalso, * DocScrutinizer51 ( entra in #maemo23:29
DocScrutinizer51friggin ZNC not in centOS default repos23:29
keriojust compile from the tarball23:30
kerioit's a nice, round version 1.0 now23:30
DocScrutinizer51and the above only happens when I reboot the bouncer23:30
kerio*when the bouncer connects to IRC23:30
keriothis is freenode, remember23:30
*** luf has joined #maemo23:32
wirrDocScrutinizer05, regarding sysop, is there some info on tmo about what skills and time is required?23:32
*** janemba_ has quit IRC23:33
*** ZogG_lap1op has joined #maemo23:36
*** zogg_ has joined #maemo23:36
*** ZogG has quit IRC23:38
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC23:38
*** wirr has quit IRC23:40
*** wirr has joined #maemo23:41
*** khertan has joined #maemo23:48
*** Dynamit has quit IRC23:50
*** WizardNumberNext has joined #maemo23:52
*** vblazquez has quit IRC23:52
luffreemangordon: :) I don't want to stop working on bluez and others packages ...23:52
*** pInvoke has quit IRC23:52
*** simeoni has quit IRC23:54
*** joga has quit IRC23:54
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo23:55
WizardNumberNextfreemangordon: I've heard you're using 64gb sd card on your n900. Do you know if it is generaly supported or is it rather matter of luck? I mean do you have any idea about addressing issues? I do not know, if SD card is more alike pure FLASH or is it block device (means interface between FLASH and SD card interface itself)23:55
WizardNumberNextSpeedEvil: I never had run into any computer, which doesn't support ext2/3/4! It is up to OS only. And I know only ONE OS, which doesn't support ext2/3/4 and I think you know the name of that crap.23:56
*** Dynamit has joined #maemo23:56
*** joga has joined #maemo23:57
*** croppa has joined #maemo23:57
CorsacWizardNumberNext: you mean OS X?23:57
WizardNumberNextI would not let windows read my SD card anyway. Last it touched my HDD I lost 400GiB of data - it was last time it had access to my hardware23:58
WizardNumberNextOh, I forgot that creator of OS X exists23:58
WizardNumberNextsorry ;)23:58
*** joga has quit IRC23:59
*** joga has joined #maemo23:59
WizardNumberNextwho uses OS X? only fanatics I presume. No games, no software, no nothing - what is use of that? Fancy graphics? I have that for ages on my GNU/Linux23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!