| MentalistTraceur | (Oh wait, yeah, I see his quit message. Was right after kerio joined) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Pali | mxr.maemo.org. 35139 IN A 173.236.158.236 | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:06:48] <timeless> it's a cname for timeless.justdave.net | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:06:56] <timeless> which responds differently when you visit it by that hostname | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:07:15] <DocScrutinizer05> mhm | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:07:33] <DocScrutinizer05> but the host is justdave.net, not maemo.org? | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:08:11] <DocScrutinizer05> so I could consider it "safe" for now? | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:10:22] <DocScrutinizer05> timeless: ^^^ | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:11:10] <DocScrutinizer05> I.E. the server is not one of those Nokia will tear down soonish? | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-09 16:11:22] <timeless> right | 00:01 |
| Pali | and http://maintenance.maemo.org/news ? | 00:01 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: maintenance.maemo.org and downloads.maemo.org | 00:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | Shouldn't we still add it in to whatever file is being discussed sooner rather than later, so it doesn't get forgotten until the DNS entry for it expires? | 00:02 |
| ShadowJK | what file? | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | I would've assumed hf would get the full existing zone file for maemo.org... or do we have to start from scratch? | 00:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | Whatever file this referred to: "<Pali> DocScrutinizer05, in your /etc/hosts is missing mxr.maemo.org and also downloads.maemo.org" | 00:04 |
| ShadowJK | Ah that's hacks | 00:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | Very well. I defer to your superior technical knowledge. | 00:05 |
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| ShadowJK | /etc/hosts on your computer or N900 bypasses DNS. Some of the maemo.org servers have already been migrated to nemein, but the still nokia controlled DNS points browsers at the old servers hosted by Nokia. By editing that file, it's possible to test the new servers | 00:06 |
| ShadowJK | not hosted by nokia actually, was it logia or something, but paid by nokia.. | 00:06 |
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| ShadowJK | As mxr.maemo.org is a CNAME entry, it means in DNS terms that when the browser asks for "mxr.maemo.org", it gets a reply saying "ask timeless.justdave.net", instead of getting an IP address. Amusingly this means that if all the Nokia sponsored servers go down, mxr.maemo.org will be the only thing that still works :-) | 00:08 |
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| Pali | mxr.maemo.org is not CNAME | 00:10 |
| Pali | mxr.maemo.org. 34486 IN A 173.236.158.236 | 00:10 |
| Pali | ShadowJK ^^^ | 00:10 |
| Pali | run dig | 00:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | I actually understand the function of both /etc/hosts (on normal computers - I just did not know if the /etc/hosts being discussed was some special, unrelated-to-that-normal-functionality file). | 00:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | But thank you, the explanation would've been helpful if I was unaware of how it worked. | 00:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | :) | 00:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Ditto for CNAME DNS records) | 00:11 |
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| ShadowJK | urgh | 00:13 |
| ShadowJK | why did timeless think it was a cname | 00:13 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Question: Is there a way to make passwd use a password that's longer than 8 characters (i.e. not ignore everything beyond that)? | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | Not trivially | 00:17 |
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| MentalistTraceur | I mean, afaik it's the algorithm used to do the hashing that drops the characters after the 8th. And I know you can make it hash using a different algorithm by editing config file /etc/pam.d/passwd or something like that, but would doing that make it actually stop dropping the last 8 characters (which boils down to the question of 'is the passwd utility dropping the chars, or is it just passing the whole string to the | 00:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | hashing algorithm used")? | 00:19 |
| ShadowJK | I don't think pam is relevant on N900... | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | like, do we even have /etc/shadow on it? | 00:20 |
| kerio | nope | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | right :) | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | crypt()ed into passwd then? | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | If someone held me at gunpoint I'd rewrite crypt in glibc to do this.. | 00:22 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Who would I go annoy (kernel-power maintainer, someone else, would it need to be packaged into CSSU to distribute in a non-hacked way..?) to get the N900 to use /etc/shadow, and so forth? | 00:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | I guess what I'm asking is 'what do I have to go learn to modify/package to get it set up?' | 00:25 |
| ShadowJK | Well, it's a major change of the low level stuff. It's the kind big re-architecturing thing that is/was easier to do in Mer | 00:26 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: anything that uses any system password | 00:26 |
| kerio | and you're still not going to be able to fix 3rd party programs that assume that /etc/passwd holds the passwords | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | hm... sshd and dropbox come to mind, any others? | 00:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ughghhr. | 00:28 |
| kerio | dropbox? wtf | 00:28 |
| kerio | why would dropbox care about user and root's passwords? | 00:28 |
| kerio | to be fair, third-party programs apart for stuff like sshd shouldn't really care about passwd | 00:28 |
| kerio | because there are no passwords in passwd in the standard fremantle | 00:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | Speaking of Mer, who made the decision to have it use rpm instead of deb? That was done in MeeGo before Mer forked from it, right? | 00:29 |
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| MentalistTraceur | And more to the point of what I'm actually curious about, why was that done, if anyone knows? | 00:30 |
| ShadowJK | no wait, dropbox is that fielsharing thing | 00:32 |
| ShadowJK | what was the real name.. beardrop? | 00:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Dropbear? | 00:32 |
| ShadowJK | the lightweight sshd thing... | 00:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yeah, dropbear. | 00:32 |
| ShadowJK | ah thx :) | 00:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | It has an ssh client and an scp program as well. | 00:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | It's not just a server. | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | Mer was deb before MeeGo, then it went rpm when MeeGo came. iirc. | 00:33 |
| Sysaxed | power kernel increases boot time by 5 seconds. why? :) | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | In the meanwhile they've worked hard on slimming their infrastructure to the point they can run everything on less than 300 bucks per month in hosting costs for everything. | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | I guess they've not seen much reason to switch back :) | 00:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | Someone needs to figure out how to make one package manager compatible with the other package formats. | 00:34 |
| Sysaxed | is it just something getting loaded at boot time or a general performance slowdown? | 00:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | (The reason is that I'm used to .deb and I don't want to learn a new package format and the world naturally revolves around me.) | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | I don't know any packaging format :) | 00:35 |
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| ShadowJK | Sysaxed, I would suspect boot time | 00:35 |
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| Sysaxed | ShadowJK, I have two identical devices | 00:36 |
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| Sysaxed | boot time was exactly the same before installing power kernel on one of the devices | 00:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | I know .deb in that I know how to make .debs (not necessarily well), and that it's an archive produced by the 'ar' program, inside of which there are several .tar.gz files. | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | powerkernel includes alot more drivers, so I would not be surprised if it took longer to initialize | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | I would expect that runtime performance would be the same, though | 00:37 |
| Sysaxed | ShadowJK, oh, ok | 00:37 |
| Sysaxed | any benchmarking tool? | 00:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, except now it's sometimes .tar.xz files, which sucks, cuz the N900's ancient dpkg doesn't know how to use those. | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | Getting maemo up to date would be an exciting project for sure, kinda what cordia tried/tries to do.. | 00:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | Well, Cordia is more of a 'make Mer look like Maemo', which I heartily approve of anyway. | 00:38 |
| Sysaxed | ShadowJK, you mean migrating to the latest debian packages? :O | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, I thought it was "Make hildon run on debian" thing | 00:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | Personally, I think we (as in the whole community) should all get together and start our own cell phone manufacturing company, producing devices with completely open-source phones. There's totally enough of an untapped market for that. | 00:40 |
| Sysaxed | well, really, I'd be very happy if it was possible to run debian on n900 with ability to make phone calls... | 00:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | ShadowJK, afair, Cordia has Mer at its core. I could of course be misremembering.... | 00:41 |
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| Sysaxed | and I don't even need any special window manager | 00:41 |
| Sysaxed | why would I if I can use stylus... | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK | I guess deblet never reached phone capability | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | sts did say it was rubbish battery life | 00:42 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, I'm going AFK like I said I was, now. | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, I often find I have this problem too with this channel. :) | 00:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Life has proven itself to be depressing and sad, for apparently getting the proper /etc/shadow -using setup on the N900 is difficult and outside my current time and abilities.) | 00:44 |
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| Sysaxed | anybody? I need something to check the performance of my n900 devices. Any benchmark app? | 00:46 |
| cehteh | what performance? | 00:46 |
| Sysaxed | cpu I guess | 00:46 |
| ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, it's pretty interesting how the "important things" varies between geeks :) | 00:47 |
| MentalistTraceur | Final remark before I go away for a bit: A. Sorry Sysaxed, don't know of any. B. What meaning is there to existance if one's password hashes are plainly available for the world to see? | 00:47 |
| cehteh | why do you need to check it? | 00:47 |
| cehteh | by default it runs up to 600mhz .. and thats definite | 00:47 |
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| ShadowJK | cehteh, he's concerned because after installing power kernel, his boot time increased. | 00:48 |
| cehteh | can happen .. but thats not a cpu issue | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | MentalistTraceur, shows the origins of a singleuser system, I guess | 00:48 |
| Sysaxed | cehteh, I have two devices configured identically. I want to see if anything changes after installing different things | 00:49 |
| cehteh | it most likely will more or less | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | cehteh, so he's worried that htis isn't just slowing down boot time, but that it is slowing down everything | 00:49 |
| cehteh | dont worry, send me the devices, no problems for you at all :P | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | One benchmark I used to use was "open news.bbc.co.uk in browser and wait for it to load"... but I have unlimited bandwidth.. without that, web benchmarks are a bit dangerous | 00:51 |
| cehteh | considering emmc and µSD latency and tracker and all other background stuff its hard to impossible to measure real-world performance in a reliable and reproducible way | 00:52 |
| cehteh | cpu wont be much of a bottleneck .. I/O and the lack of ram is | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | My theory was that the boot time is slowed somewhat by the extra drivers that pk includes | 00:54 |
| Sysaxed | most probably | 00:54 |
| cehteh | dunno if there are patches for these, but just looking at dmesg gives you timestamps | 00:55 |
| cehteh | get the timestamp of the first entry when booting started and define some entry which defines that the boot has finished | 00:55 |
| cehteh | make a script substracting those and voila | 00:55 |
| Sysaxed | what for? | 00:56 |
| Sysaxed | starting devices simultaneously does the thing | 00:56 |
| cehteh | fine if that works for you | 00:56 |
| cehteh | why did you ask then? | 00:56 |
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| Sysaxed | I'm asking how can I check the performance.. not the boot time... | 00:57 |
| Sysaxed | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49705 | 00:57 |
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| ShadowJK | speaking of http://whatever, firefox is currently at 8138M vsz ram use and 5300M rss :-( I only have 8G ram :-( | 01:06 |
| unclouded | how on earth did browsers used to run on machines with 128MB of RAM? | 01:07 |
| nox- | http://i.imgur.com/M8Nbl.jpg | 01:07 |
| unclouded | my Chromium chews 2GB too. what it the world coming to!? | 01:08 |
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| * nox- used to run Mosaic and later netscape in 32 MB RAM too... | 01:09 | |
| kerio | nox-: i'm not entirely sure that picture is legit | 01:09 |
| nox- | hm | 01:09 |
| nox- | makey you wonder yeah... | 01:09 |
| nox- | makes even | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | nox-, 32M for mosaic, that sounds luxurious | 01:09 |
| nox- | hehe | 01:10 |
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| nox- | it was my first freebsd box at home, a 486 :) | 01:10 |
| * ShadowJK remembers running Netscape2 on 8M. And THAT felt like luxury, because before that I was limited to Netscape 1 on 4M ram, and websites kept telling me to fuck off if I didn't have Netscape2 | 01:10 | |
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| Sysaxed | ShadowJK, my friend was using a laptop with 256 mb of ram only | 01:10 |
| Sysaxed | ShadowJK, XP as OS | 01:10 |
| Sysaxed | ShadowJK, it was just fine. | 01:10 |
| Sysaxed | firefox as web browser | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | W2K on 256M is mostly fine too before you start skype and browser | 01:11 |
| Sysaxed | on crunchbang I was able to get in 256 mb limit with firefox and skype started | 01:11 |
| nox- | ppl used to mock emacs, and now its browsers that are eight gigabytes and constantly swapping... | 01:11 |
| ShadowJK | nox-, aint that the truth | 01:11 |
| nox- | *nod* | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | I fired up 4 external USB harddrives and set me up a raid-0 swap to recover | 01:12 |
| nox- | oh dear :) | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 01:12 |
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| ShadowJK | I had accidentally left a bad site open, I think it was gitorious, or some similar site | 01:13 |
| ShadowJK | and firefox had grown in size overnight | 01:13 |
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| fastlane` | firefox does that to every site i guess, just leaving stuff open and leaving them that way. | 01:18 |
| fastlane` | with days it gets worse | 01:19 |
| ShadowJK | I run noscript usually | 01:20 |
| ShadowJK | but these were sites that refused to work without javascript so I had to enable :( | 01:20 |
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| fastlane` | oh | 01:20 |
| ShadowJK | and they ate my RAM and half of my 8gig swapfile. bastards. :-( | 01:20 |
| fastlane` | sigh | 01:20 |
| fastlane` | yea they always operate on a --no-mercy compiler switch :p | 01:21 |
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| Sysaxed | I have a laptop with 1 gb RAM | 01:22 |
| fastlane` | oh | 01:22 |
| fastlane` | whats the processor | 01:22 |
| Sysaxed | and something was swapped only 3-4 times in my life on that pc | 01:22 |
| Sysaxed | so it's more than enough for running firefox, skype, dropbox, eclipse, blender | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | My N900 can run the x86-emulator written in javascript, booting linux. My quad-core desktop is forced to its knees by what is essentially static text. There's something wrong with web. | 01:23 |
| Sysaxed | simultaneously, of course | 01:23 |
| Sysaxed | fastlane`, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/71236259/2013-01-12-012347_1280x751_scrot.png | 01:23 |
| fastlane` | Error (404) | 01:24 |
| fastlane` | We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home. | 01:24 |
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| Sysaxed | fastlane`, sorry, my connection was lost halfway uploading a screenshot. check it again :) | 01:30 |
| fastlane` | oh np, yes its accessible now | 01:31 |
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| Sysaxed_ | fastlane`, by the way, why does it matter? | 01:37 |
| fastlane` | it doesnt i guess | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | My Atom 550 (iirc) machine has same web browser benchmark scores as my android tablet :/ | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | My 2006 vintage AMD Sempron box beats them both by miles | 01:44 |
| fastlane` | but with that ram, eclipse is not that ram friendly or is it? | 01:44 |
| fastlane` | which android tab do u have? | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | Asus TF700 | 01:44 |
| fastlane` | hm | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | Quad core tegra 3 @ 1.66 Ghz | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | The Sempron 3100+ runs at 1.8GHz clock frequency, iirc. | 01:45 |
| fastlane` | android is not that ram friendly i guess | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | For h264 decoding, dual-core Atom 330 (@1.66Ghz) sometimes beats the sempron :) | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | Android is ram-paranoid | 01:46 |
| fastlane` | my friend has a nexus 3, and i start browsing couple of websites on chrome on android 4.2 i think | 01:46 |
| fastlane` | and after a while, the website kind of page ot whatever | 01:46 |
| fastlane` | or* | 01:47 |
| fastlane` | give n900 1 gb ram :$ | 01:47 |
| fastlane` | hehe | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | If you switch tabs or switch app, it "forgets" the other apps or tabs | 01:47 |
| fastlane` | true that ! | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | It's really annoying | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | Like, I open tabs so that I'd not have to suffer loading times | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | and then it goes and discards the page anyway | 01:47 |
| ShadowJK | pisses me off | 01:48 |
| ShadowJK | N900 does better | 01:48 |
| fastlane` | yes and then its like we r trying to kill these problems with faster n faster hardware, rather then doing something about it in the software ... but then i guess nothing more can be done as the wole system is running java | 01:48 |
| fastlane` | nothing is deterministic in nature there | 01:48 |
| Sysaxed_ | fastlane`, eclipse is fine. 100-300 megs ram usage | 01:48 |
| fastlane` | hm | 01:48 |
| fastlane` | galaxy note 2 is supposed to FAST damn it | 01:49 |
| fastlane` | but again, the same problems | 01:49 |
| fastlane` | with 2gb ram | 01:49 |
| Sysaxed_ | fastlane`, java is not that slow really | 01:49 |
| ShadowJK | There's also this thing where anyhting that is not in foreground is suspended | 01:50 |
| fastlane` | hmm, their own scheduling | 01:50 |
| ShadowJK | it's the basis of android's power saving strategy | 01:50 |
| fastlane` | hm | 01:50 |
| fastlane` | power saving my foot :p | 01:51 |
| ShadowJK | It effectively disables multitasking | 01:51 |
| Sysaxed_ | disables... I thought it was called "kills" | 01:51 |
| fastlane` | is there a kill even? | 01:52 |
| fastlane` | why wasnt just everything written in c | 01:52 |
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| ShadowJK | I have a habbit of opening, say, theregister.co.uk, and then "open in new tab" every interesting article, switch to IRC to pass some time while browser loads, switch back... except browser has been paused while I've been ircing, and I STILL have to wait for shit to load | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | god damn it, if I have 4 cores, I wouldn't mind 3 of them used for the browser when I'm in irc | 01:53 |
| Sysaxed_ | ShadowJK, that's why we have n900, right? | 01:53 |
| ShadowJK | True that | 01:53 |
| fastlane` | absolutely ! | 01:53 |
| ShadowJK | I use my N900 more than the android tablet | 01:53 |
| fastlane` | hehe | 01:53 |
| ShadowJK | the touchscreen on the android drives me bonkers sometimes too | 01:53 |
| Sysaxed_ | capacitive touchscreens... :\ | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | I have vibration feedback turned on. It only works in specific apps. By specific apps I mean the virtual keyboard. Everywhere else you get no feedback. | 01:54 |
| fastlane` | i cudnt spend money on these tablets, but i guess i may on the 16gb nexus 7 ... for reading books in pdf | 01:54 |
| fastlane` | is there a CHM file reader on android | 01:54 |
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| ShadowJK | However, sometimes in the middle of hte night, I get woken up by the tablet vibrating furiously, when it htinks that someone has touched it and activated touchscreen and is typing the next best-seller novel consisting of "aaaaaaasssssdddddffffghhhyyyuuuttrtrrrrrrfffffvvvnnnmmmm" | 01:55 |
| fastlane` | lol | 01:55 |
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| fastlane` | :D | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | The lack of sufficiently large screen bezel is annoying | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | because you have to hold it with your hand covering the touchscreen | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | if your hand covers the touchscreen, it registers as an input | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | Some apps consider that input a part of a "pinch to zoom" gesture or similar | 01:56 |
| fastlane` | hmm | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | So you can't actually scroll until you let go of the thing and make sure you're only touching it with one single body part | 01:57 |
| fastlane` | oh the pinch to zoom patent !!! apple think no one in the whole world cud have come up with it! | 01:57 |
| fastlane` | :@ | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | This actually varis between apps, some apps don't care about extra stuff, but most do. | 01:57 |
| fastlane` | going around suing companies | 01:57 |
| fastlane` | its reallllllly hard to get used to capacitive screens, | 01:58 |
| ShadowJK | It woudl help if you'd get feedback | 02:00 |
| ShadowJK | N900 does this really well. The delay between touching screen, and vibrator acknowledging it, is reallyy low, and it's consitently really low | 02:01 |
| ShadowJK | And I'm using the quadcore tablet as comparison here. | 02:01 |
| fastlane` | yea | 02:02 |
| ShadowJK | N800 and N810 had sound feedback, but the sound dsp on them were somewhat unreliable... :) | 02:02 |
| fastlane` | in the times of n810, i really wanted to buy it, i was soooooo fascinated by that device but i had no money | 02:04 |
| fastlane` | really awesome screen | 02:04 |
| ShadowJK | the touch layer on N900 is much better | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | But on N800 and N810 screen, the touch layer is like 1mm or less above the display layer..really nice in that sense | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | on N900 it feels a bit like the "window" you touch is a mile above the screen that produces the contents | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | Like if you take stylus, and put it down on the screen on some specific point, and then look at it from different angles, you'll find that the point shifts location depending on the angle you look at the screen | 02:07 |
| * ShadowJK still uses N800 and N810 :-) | 02:07 | |
| fastlane` | :) | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | I bought a new microsd card for my N800 | 02:09 |
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| ShadowJK | One that has stellar random I/O performance | 02:09 |
| fastlane` | which one | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | with swap on it, the difference is like night and way | 02:09 |
| fastlane` | cool | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | iirc "A-data ultra speed" | 02:10 |
| fastlane` | hmm | 02:11 |
| ShadowJK | "AUSDH16GUI1-RA1 ADATA 16GB Ultra High Speed MicroSDHC" | 02:11 |
| xes | hmmm | 02:11 |
| ShadowJK | Ot | 02:11 |
| ShadowJK | It's not entirely reliable, it failed in my benchmarks. :-) | 02:11 |
| xes | ahh | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | Seems to work reliably enough in my N800 though, approaching 3 weeks of uptime | 02:12 |
| Sysaxed_ | n900 has sound feedback too | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | I think 1-2 week was the norm with the older cards, there the limit was mostly that the cards were so slow that watchdog kicked in | 02:12 |
| fastlane` | iirc adata has some very nice n affordable SSDs also, | 02:13 |
| * fastlane` will get a ssd for his laptop .... one day !!! | 02:14 | |
| halXI | hello, about n900 maemo, you know if repos are offline? | 02:14 |
| xes | am i wrong or the biggest a-data uSD is 32GB? | 02:15 |
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| Sysaxed_ | halXI, they're not | 02:15 |
| Sysaxed_ | I was installing different stuff the whole day | 02:15 |
| xes | halXI: perfectly working... | 02:16 |
| fastlane` | apt-get update seems to be working fine | 02:16 |
| fastlane` | right now. | 02:16 |
| Sysaxed_ | btw, how can I autostart something? Somehow google forgot maemo wiki pages so I can't find it :( | 02:16 |
| fastlane` | :O | 02:16 |
| halXI | apt-get update tell me gpg keyexpired | 02:17 |
| Sysaxed_ | halXI, as far as I remember it's fine | 02:17 |
| xes | ShadowJK: i would buy a new 64GB uSD... (wikipedia is so big..) Which card do you suggest? | 02:18 |
| halXI | so it must be my phone | 02:18 |
| fastlane` | howcome i can find ADATA 16GB Ultra High Speed MicroSDHC on amazon's uk website but not on amazon.com :o | 02:19 |
| ShadowJK | xes, 64g is beyond my affordabilty. For 16g I can afford buying a bunch of them and use the best I get. | 02:19 |
| Sysaxed_ | anybody? what was that wiki page about upstart, event.d and other related stuff | 02:20 |
| fastlane` | and adata's promier pro 32gb usd card is for $77 :OOOO | 02:20 |
| ShadowJK | But generally, if there's a sandisk android edition 64g, I'd probably try that one :-) | 02:20 |
| fastlane` | no go! | 02:20 |
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| halXI | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned an error 1 | 02:20 |
| xes | ShadowJK: thanks, i'll look for that.. | 02:21 |
| ShadowJK | btw, just because a company (like adata or sandisk) has 6 different speed of cards, doesn't mean that their "fastest" actually will be fastest. :-) | 02:21 |
| fastlane` | http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ only one i can find Sysaxed_ | 02:21 |
| ShadowJK | The old sandisk Class 4 uSD card was the fastest card on the market at the time, beating competitor Class 10 cards easily, and beating sandisk's class 6 cards too :-) | 02:22 |
| fastlane` | time for me to hit the bed | 02:23 |
| fastlane` | \o/ | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | The new sandisk class 4 is woefully slow. :) | 02:23 |
| xes | And this one? http://goo.gl/yY35K | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | No clue. You basically wont know until you get it. | 02:24 |
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| ShadowJK | There's a trend with UHS cards, they tend to perform really slow with SDHC hosts. | 02:24 |
| ShadowJK | (in some respects) | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | That adata card I mentioned, I only get 3MByte/s with it on N800, but it's still the fastest card I've used on N800 when I put the swapfile on it :-) | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | If you just want to store files on it, a non-UHS Class-10 Sandisk card is probably the best there is | 02:26 |
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| ShadowJK | If you want to try boost performance, the hunt is on :) | 02:26 |
| xes | i understand....considering the cost ad the risk..... the impression is that it would be better to wait some time for that size of memory card | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | I have currently about 6 8 or 16 gig cards on order | 02:27 |
| xes | WOW.... | 02:28 |
| ShadowJK | if any of them impress me, I'll get the 32 gig version and test that | 02:28 |
| xes | it's a race! :) | 02:28 |
| ShadowJK | Sadly, all the "interesting" cards are hard to get :( | 02:28 |
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| xes | now i'm using a lexar 32gb class 10... it's not bad but i didn't checked the real numbers with some benchmark | 02:29 |
| halXI | nothing about http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 Sub-process bzip2 returned an error 1 | 02:30 |
| halXI | following signature invalid keyexpired 1349249546 | 02:31 |
| ShadowJK | xes, it's pretty hard to test, too | 02:33 |
| xes | i know, dd is not enough | 02:33 |
| xes | ShadowJK: what are you using to make a comparison? | 02:34 |
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| ShadowJK | I use coffeemug rebench on a sheevaplug to test random I/O perf | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | I use flashbench on an atom machine for generic profiling | 02:35 |
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| Sysaxed_ | wtf.. is there any upstart example? | 02:38 |
| xes | ShadowJK: interesting..i would test with this also my blade's iscsi ... sometimes i use ioperf but..i don't like it at all | 02:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: before mosaic, I developed a viewer to display advertisements and citymaps etc on public touchscreen terminals, which we could dial up and feed new texts via modem. I think those had less than 32MB RAM | 02:41 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Btw, @ comment up above with the whole Android discussion about how it kills multitasking - it actually would be extremely easy for Android to not do that, Google just wrote Android like that. It's not Java itself that manages what Android app 'activities' get unloaded, afaik, but the Android task/activity management, whatever layer that's implemented in. | 02:45 |
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| MentalistTraceur | And I would guess just about every 3rd party browser uses Android's built-in webview class, so they'd have a hard time doing the only background-task-killing workaround I could think of for Android even if they tried. | 02:50 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Of course, my Android developing skills are fairly limited as well, so there might be work-arounds an 'app' could do that I'm unaware of... | 02:51 |
| Sysaxed_ | vi____, | 02:51 |
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| Hurrian | MentalistTraceur: IIRC, you'll simply have to put whatever task you need to run as a service | 02:54 |
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| Hurrian | like the terminal emulators, the UI is part of the main activity, and the terminal window is a service | 02:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hurrian, yes, and that was what I was thinking of, however, the discussion I am responding to had to do with browser tabs 'forgetting' the tabs they had loaded when they've not been the foreground tab for a while. | 02:56 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, it's as if no browser on Android has ever heard of Javascript pausing | 02:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | Which led me to the thought that to save that in a service, you'd have to somehow get the service to store that webpage in memory. | 02:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | Which would be great, except Android provided a very easy to use 'webview' class for coding, which in no way exposes the actual webpage itself as far as I know. So if most browsers use that for rendering, the developers of those browsers wouldn't be able to do that... | 02:58 |
| Hurrian | MentalistTraceur: the main activity can probably just fork a service per tab, freeze itself, and simply call back to the pages once someone brings the browser window back up | 02:58 |
| Hurrian | oh, if those webpages are dynamic though, and take the WiFilock, the battery life is simply going to go down the drain. | 02:59 |
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| Hurrian | can Android suspend services? seems like that's the best option - fork services for each tab, once the main browser window gets killed/frozen the tabs get frozen, and resumed when the browser gets brought up again | 03:00 |
| Hurrian | this really shouldn't be a problem in the age where most high-end Android devices have upwards of 1GB RAM | 03:01 |
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| MentalistTraceur | My concern is I don't think that service for that tab will be able to actually get at the webpage data - that's handled by the WebView class. | 03:02 |
| Hurrian | I just looked it up, and it seems that you cannot run a Webview inside a service. | 03:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | So when the Tab's activity is killed (by Android doing its usual background task gutting), the service will still live, but the tab's activity's WebView element will have been killed, loosing that data and needing a reload next time you get to the tab. | 03:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | Indeed. | 03:03 |
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| Hurrian | MentalistTraceur: that's more inefficient than "saving a list of open pages", which most browsers do nowadays | 03:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | You can't run any View-derived class in a service in Android. As a rule of thumb, any class that deal with showing things on the screen can't go in a service. | 03:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/deal/deals | 03:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... | 03:05 |
| Hurrian | IIRC, Chrome for Android has a limited ability to store the webpages in open tabs and restore them after the process has been killed - it stores the page into cache, and redraws them (and restores scroll position, but not entered data) | 03:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/deals/"deals/"/ | 03:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | Perhaps, but Google has a privileged position as far as coding that app goes. | 03:06 |
| Hurrian | nah, I just think thats one way of faking suspend-resume ability | 03:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | All of the above said though, if an Android browser dev wrote their own web rendering engine, THEN they could get around the Android background-task killing as far as webpages having to reload goes. | 03:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* Whatever, long-live actual properly multi-tasking phone OSs. | 03:09 |
| jon_y | anybody know how to type the '>' in rescueOS? | 03:14 |
| jon_y | wifi support is kind of pointless if you can't create wlan.cfg for passwords | 03:15 |
| jon_y | kerio: ping | 03:15 |
| xes | jon_y: ">" ...no way from device... | 03:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | jon_y, try shift+(left-arrow)? | 03:16 |
| jon_y | ok | 03:16 |
| kerio | jon_y: shift+right arrow i think | 03:16 |
| jon_y | ok | 03:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm just guessing, btw. | 03:16 |
| jon_y | will try | 03:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or fn+(left-arrow)? | 03:16 |
| jon_y | sweet, fn+arrow | 03:17 |
| jon_y | ok, now it says root is read-only | 03:18 |
| jon_y | for /wlan.cfg | 03:18 |
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| jon_y | safe to mount / -o remount,rw? | 03:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | Probably, I honestly never worked with RescueOS | 03:19 |
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| MentalistTraceur | But if you have to modify /wlan.cfg, I figure you might as well. If you're in RescueOS, there's a decent chance you don't have much to lose. | 03:20 |
| jon_y | nope, remount still readonly | 03:20 |
| kerio | rescueos runs in a cramfs, it's read only | 03:20 |
| kerio | you have to bindmount from tmpfs | 03:20 |
| kerio | the scripts in /rescueOS/ do that | 03:20 |
| jon_y | ah ok, these should go in the rescueOS docs | 03:20 |
| jon_y | or at least get the wifi script to ask for password directly | 03:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yay, someone who knows RescueOS is here to take over. | 03:21 |
| jon_y | btw, other key combo I found is fn+symb = tab | 03:22 |
| jon_y | for auto complete | 03:22 |
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| jon_y | kerio: for rw bind remount, how do you do that? | 03:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | Cool. (Though ctrl-i is treated as a tab by most shells anyway). | 03:23 |
| kerio | jon_y: beats me | 03:23 |
| kerio | look at the scripts | 03:23 |
| jon_y | mount --bind / /tmp/somedir? | 03:23 |
| kerio | ew, no | 03:23 |
| jon_y | I hope less/more is installed, or vi :) | 03:23 |
| kerio | besides, you'd want unionfs or something similar for that | 03:23 |
| jon_y | ok, how am I supposed to > /wlan.cfg? | 03:24 |
| kerio | ask NIN101 | 03:24 |
| jon_y | hmm, he's offline | 03:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | RescueOS should really involve more rescue and less obscure filesystem wankery. | 03:25 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Not that I'd necessarily code it any better... | 03:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hold up, if you're trying to redirect some output into /wlan.cfg, couldn't you just direct that output to another file, then use/run that file instead? | 03:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | I.e. a file you can write to, like /tmp/randomfilename | 03:27 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: just got an email from Rambo/Nemein for key exchange, he was talking like there will be more admins server sided for tmo... "one of the admins of tmo" is that for the move or did I miss on something | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's for the move | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reggie gets root access to do the migration this very weekend | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'll get root eventually, just because ... ;-) | 03:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | I wanna haz root just because. | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or because I'm admin-coordinator | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and thus will hand out accounts to MentalistTraceur and others, when needed | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and I need to appoint a stand-in, in case I get hit by a bus, I guess | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for tmo that's you for now, chem|st | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since you also have full root access | 04:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | By the way Joerg, Eero clarified on email that he was talking about the old DNS changes we requested, when he said Nokia started moving on the DNS issue. | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I answered that mail | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | weird | 04:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ah, I see. | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think Nokia would like to pass domain ownership to HiFo | 04:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yes, but Nokia is like a glacier of bureaucracy. | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what been agreed upon bewteen hiFo and Nokia regarding that | 04:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | It'll get there... eventually. | 04:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | Maybe. | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'll see what's going to happen | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever it will be, it won't kill us | 04:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if users can't access tmo anymore, they will be smart enough to have a look at maemo.org and there they will find what's going on and how to deal with it | 04:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: Jaffa: good topic for next MWKN as well: announce tmo migration happening during the week, and possible implications of old URL pointing to nowhere resp to a server that's in zombie state | 04:14 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: ah I was thinking of the tmo-admin access... but yes I need full root-access... didn't think about that | 04:16 |
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| chem|st | you wanted me to look after a server as much as I have time right... | 04:16 |
| chem|st | thanks for the mail | 04:18 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Alright, I'm head off IRC for the day. | 04:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | *waves* | 04:20 |
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| jon_y | so, ubi0:rootfs is the root | 04:37 |
| jon_y | where is the home dir from? | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 04:38 |
| jon_y | I'm trying to mount it in rescueOS | 04:38 |
| jon_y | hmm, some hints on google say /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback) | 04:40 |
| jon_y | thanks | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir) | 04:41 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: lastly is there a way to grab the contacts? | 04:45 |
| jon_y | phone numbers etc | 04:45 |
| jon_y | and maybe sms | 04:46 |
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| chem|st | jon_y: phonebook is in .osso-abook | 04:50 |
| jon_y | thanks | 04:50 |
| jon_y | I'd be willing to work on RescueOS for repayment | 04:50 |
| chem|st | jon_y: and .rtcom-eventlogger for msgs afaict | 04:53 |
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| jon_y | chem|st: you mean sms? | 04:56 |
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| jon_y | very nice, sms contact in sqlite form | 04:59 |
| jon_y | not so much for the actual phonebook data though | 04:59 |
| jon_y | but I'm cool with extracting it with strings(1) | 04:59 |
| cehteh | its an sqlite db .. you can use the sqlite tools to dump it as text/sql | 05:00 |
| cehteh | or even prints it in some formatted way | 05:00 |
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| jon_y | cehteh: you mean the phonebook data? | 05:01 |
| cehteh | yep | 05:01 |
| jon_y | my sqlite tools don't seem to like it | 05:01 |
| jon_y | something about closed sets | 05:01 |
| cehteh | mhm .. am i wrong then? | 05:02 |
| jon_y | no idea | 05:02 |
| chem|st | should be sqlite | 05:02 |
| jon_y | .rtcom stuff is in sqlite | 05:02 |
| chem|st | both should be in sqlite | 05:02 |
| jon_y | .osso seems to be some custom db | 05:02 |
| jon_y | I'll try again soon | 05:02 |
| chem|st | hmm | 05:02 |
| jon_y | for now, I will embark on a quest to find the great Nokia 3310 | 05:03 |
| jon_y | or anything equivalent | 05:03 |
| Theorbo | Anyone know how much an unopened N950 is worth? | 05:03 |
| jon_y | 1000-ish euros | 05:03 |
| cehteh | $1 .. i take it :) | 05:04 |
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| chem|st | Theorbo: 1000+eur on ebay... | 05:04 |
| chem|st | in netto actualy nothing but 5euros... | 05:05 |
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| Theorbo | Thanks | 05:09 |
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| HtheB | can anyone configrm is the Audio in Qt for Maemo is supported or not? | 09:16 |
| HtheB | confirm if* | 09:18 |
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| merlin1991 | HtheB: it should work | 09:52 |
| merlin1991 | if it doesn't hit the guys over in #maemo-ssu and we might provide a fix with the next cssu update | 09:52 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1311859&highlight=ppsspp#post1311859 | 09:53 |
| HtheB | check the last post | 09:53 |
| merlin1991 | hm intresting, I can have a look in the qt sources somewhere next week, but you'll probably want your answer earlier :D | 09:56 |
| HtheB | no problem | 09:56 |
| HtheB | well, its to point out to pali | 09:56 |
| HtheB | that afaik, it should work now | 09:56 |
| HtheB | some guy is trying to port the psp emulator to harmattan | 09:57 |
| HtheB | but he gets some audio errors afaiu | 09:57 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer05: URL to announcement about it? | 10:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hoo boy. | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | "greater good" | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://hildonfoundation.org/jolla-part-2/#comment-69 | 11:25 |
| thedead1440 | so now a Councilor is just a "community member" while the BoD is above all? Wow... | 11:26 |
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| flux | is there some camera application around for n900 with both sources and ability to refocus? | 12:26 |
| flux | using the standard camera subsystem that is, fcam does exist.. | 12:26 |
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| flux | I suppose fcam will do fine for me, though :) | 12:28 |
| tadzik | is there any info in maemo system logs where did the last charging occur? | 12:29 |
| tadzik | seems that dmesg has something | 12:30 |
| kerio | tadzik: maemo has no logs unless you install syslog | 12:31 |
| tadzik | I see. Thanks | 12:32 |
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| f3bruary | sup | 12:41 |
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| f3bruary | kerio: va bene | 12:48 |
| kerio | ? | 12:48 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: ping | 12:48 |
| f3bruary | I thought you were italian | 12:48 |
| kerio | i am | 12:48 |
| f3bruary | va bene ? | 12:48 |
| kerio | if you mean "what's up" you should ask something like "come va?" | 12:49 |
| f3bruary | ah | 12:50 |
| kerio | and yeah, everything alright | 12:50 |
| chem|st | hehe | 12:50 |
| f3bruary | I use va bene most of the time and people just say yeah and you ? | 12:50 |
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| f3bruary | so I assumed it to be correct | 12:51 |
| chem|st | f3bruary: that is more like "ok" | 12:51 |
| f3bruary | turns out the xtube fix is not really working well | 12:52 |
| kerio | it's the kind of phrase that, while being wrong or at least a bit weird, would still be perfectly understood when spoken out loud by a foreigner :) | 12:52 |
| f3bruary | ic | 12:52 |
| f3bruary | :D | 12:52 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: in RescueOS, mmc blocks for SD and mtd are swapped | 14:05 |
| jon_y | so, mmcblk0 SD slot, mmcblk1 system emmc | 14:05 |
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| grummund | Any tips before applying a screen protector? | 15:03 |
| freemangordon | do it in a dust-free environment | 15:04 |
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| kerio | grummund: bathroom, run the shower with scalding hot water | 15:04 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 15:04 |
| kerio | so the air becomes humid and the dust drops from the air | 15:05 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 15:05 |
| grummund | should i clean the screen with anything first? | 15:05 |
| grummund | it's quite scratched already | 15:06 |
| freemangordon | yes, clean it | 15:07 |
| grummund | the film cames with a cleaning clith | 15:07 |
| grummund | *cloth | 15:07 |
| freemangordon | and don;t worry about the scratches, screen protector will make most of them invisible | 15:07 |
| freemangordon | you'd better find the one that came with the device | 15:07 |
| grummund | i have some anti-static foam cleaner | 15:07 |
| freemangordon | no | 15:07 |
| freemangordon | you rist foam to enter into device | 15:08 |
| freemangordon | that will ruin it | 15:08 |
| freemangordon | *risk | 15:08 |
| grummund | i can apply a small amount to the cloth first | 15:08 |
| thedead1440 | how about alcohol wipes? | 15:08 |
| freemangordon | thedead1440: moist from your breat is all that you need | 15:09 |
| freemangordon | *breath | 15:09 |
| thedead1440 | haha | 15:10 |
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| grummund | heh. i have been alchol free since before xmas | 15:10 |
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| Hurrian | whoa, that's all pretty extreme | 15:20 |
| Hurrian | I use packing tape to pick up the dust and stickify the surface for the protector | 15:21 |
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| Lava_Croft | just use the same type of cloths they use to clean glasses | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | those are perfect for the job | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | or, if you have an imac around | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | Apple's cleaning cloths are king (no joke) | 15:24 |
| grummund | All done, and snug in its new case too :) | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia case? | 15:25 |
| grummund | nah, imitation leather. With a free screen protector, all for 99p. :D | 15:26 |
| Lava_Croft | :X | 15:26 |
| grummund | including shipping :D | 15:26 |
| Lava_Croft | CP-408 is the king of n900 cases | 15:26 |
| Lava_Croft | http://blog.tecnologiamovil.net/wp-content/gallery/miscellanea_singles/nokia-cp-408.jpg | 15:26 |
| grummund | yebbut pricey though | 15:27 |
| Lava_Croft | 20euros | 15:28 |
| grummund | yeah like that's 20x what i paid :p | 15:28 |
| grummund | http://www.amazon.co.uk/BLACK-WALLET-LEATHER-CASE-NOKIA/dp/B0038LNLS6/ref=sr_1_1 | 15:28 |
| grummund | 1 left in stock | 15:29 |
| Lava_Croft | i had a case like that at first, it died in a week | 15:29 |
| Lava_Croft | not exactly the same, but also a cheap one | 15:29 |
| kerio | otterbox or nothing | 15:31 |
| Lava_Croft | that doesnt protect the screen iirc | 15:31 |
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| kerio | otterbox+screen protector | 15:53 |
| Lava_Croft | lol screen protector | 15:53 |
| Lava_Croft | the name suggests it protects | 15:53 |
| Lava_Croft | but it protects as well as normal condoms do when having anal sex | 15:53 |
| Lava_Croft | which isnt very much | 15:53 |
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| kerio | :O | 16:06 |
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| tomreyn | hi, i'm using maemo on n900 including the community updates (which I appreciate very much). | 16:53 |
| tomreyn | i'd like to disable certain CA's, though, which doesn't seem to be possible using the GUI. can you help me as to find out how to disable a CA (or revoke trust)? | 16:53 |
| tomreyn | also, i'm wondering which web browser people use / recommend. i'd like to use one which receives security updates. | 16:55 |
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| thedead1440 | tomreyn: you may want to look at this post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1311600&postcount=13 | 16:56 |
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| tomreyn | and on yet another topic: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog prints a database error, revealing the database it is trying to access as well as the DB user: from within function "SiteStatsUpdate::doUpdate". Database returned error "1142: UPDATE command denied to user 'wikiuser_ro'@'wml0234' for table 'mw_site_stats' (apps.maemo.org)". | 16:56 |
| thedead1440 | ~jrtools | 16:57 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: infobot down | 16:59 |
| tomreyn | thedead1440: thanks for the forums link, this should help. do you think this method will persist on CA updates? | 16:59 |
| kerio | tomreyn: use cmcli to change the cert db | 16:59 |
| thedead1440 | tomreyn: the wiki is down so you need to add into your hosts file the following entry: 188.117.59.202 wiki.maemo.org | 17:00 |
| thedead1440 | s/down/being migrated/ | 17:00 |
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| tomreyn | kerio: thanks, that's basically what the script in the forums does (amongst also updating the, apparently separate, microb CA store. | 17:00 |
| kerio | there's no need to change the microb CA store | 17:01 |
| tomreyn | kerio: so it's sourced from the same backend as the one cmcli operates on? | 17:01 |
| kerio | libmaemosec-certman0 diverts /usr/lib/microb-engine/libnssckbi.so away, and supplies its own | 17:02 |
| kerio | tomreyn: blacklisting is probably better than deleting, fyi | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ssh: connect to host rikers.org port 22: Connection timed out | 17:04 |
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| tomreyn | kerio: can you explain how to blacklist? using cmcli, i assume? i'm just looking at the usage output and it doesn't meantion "disable" or "editing trust" | 17:05 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I cannot connect to our new serrver... | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 17:05 |
| chem|st | sry cannot 'logon' to it | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have no access yet | 17:05 |
| kerio | tomreyn: you have to add it to the "blacklist" domain | 17:06 |
| kerio | ask merlin1991 for details | 17:06 |
| tomreyn | oh, got it | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ping reggie, maybe he's messing around there | 17:06 |
| kerio | he's the one that made the last maemosec update | 17:06 |
| tomreyn | much appreciated that one | 17:07 |
| tomreyn | just like diginotar's | 17:07 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I tried to logon minutes after I got the ip | 17:07 |
| merlin1991 | tomreyn: cmcli -c blacklist -a pathtocert | 17:07 |
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| merlin1991 | cmmcli -c common-ca -r certid | 17:07 |
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| kerio | merlin1991: what happens if a certificate is in both? | 17:07 |
| merlin1991 | s/cmm/cm/ | 17:07 |
| merlin1991 | retardation? | 17:08 |
| tomreyn | :) | 17:08 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I replied to rambo's mail | 17:09 |
| kerio | oh, you didn't remove anything from common-ca because the intermediate CAs weren't in the common-ca list | 17:09 |
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| tomreyn | kerio: can you explain the concepts of private vs shared domains? i assume private is for internal / organisation CAs? | 17:10 |
| kerio | i have no idea actually | 17:11 |
| tomreyn | i.e. when you have your own internal PKI | 17:11 |
| kerio | you could try adding a certificate with the applet | 17:11 |
| kerio | to see where it ends up | 17:11 |
| kerio | the applet in Settings | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | infobo: wb | 17:11 |
| tomreyn | right | 17:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: wat | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-12 16:11:27] [Notify] infobot is online (irc.freenode.net). | 17:12 |
| kerio | i see | 17:12 |
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| kerio | ~botsnack | 17:13 |
| infobot | kerio: :) | 17:13 |
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| tomreyn | well thanks everyone. about the web browser: which one do you use and why? and is there any one which gets security updates, or updates at all? | 17:13 |
| kerio | tomreyn: microB gets security updates from cssu :) | 17:14 |
| tomreyn | it does? i never noticed | 17:14 |
| kerio | second "distribution" in the world to fix the turktrust issue :) | 17:14 |
| tomreyn | hehe | 17:14 |
| kerio | er, third | 17:14 |
| kerio | first and second were mozilla and m$ | 17:15 |
| tomreyn | base don what i read Ms actually didnt revoke it yet | 17:15 |
| kerio | nobody removed the turktrust CA | 17:15 |
| tomreyn | or just provides a patch which is not shipped universally | 17:15 |
| kerio | they just blacklisted the two affected intermediate CAs | 17:16 |
| tomreyn | well i did ;) | 17:16 |
| tomreyn | they lost my trust if i had any in them before | 17:16 |
| tomreyn | but "revoke" is a very wrong term in this context indeed | 17:17 |
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| NeutrinoPower | does someone use evopedia? I don't know what wikipedia-dump I have to download and evopedia cannot download it via bittorrent... | 17:29 |
| tomreyn | i guess the idea is that you download it to your desktop using bittorrent and then move it to the maemo device using a data cable or similar | 17:32 |
| tomreyn | the dumps' torrent files are available on their website | 17:32 |
| tomreyn | pretty outdated though | 17:32 |
| tomreyn | it would seem like evopedia needs a different format than the one provided by wikimedia | 17:34 |
| tomreyn | "Evopedia dump at home combines the processing power of various computers around the globe to create Wikipedia database dumps for use in the offline Wikipedia reader evopedia." | 17:34 |
| NeutrinoPower | does it work with this dumps? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dump_torrents | 17:35 |
| NeutrinoPower | ok | 17:36 |
| tomreyn | <tomreyn> it would seem like evopedia needs a different format than the one provided by wikimedia | 17:36 |
| NeutrinoPower | yes | 17:36 |
| tomreyn | based on past releases, you can probably expect the evopedia people to update the english database within the next two months. | 17:37 |
| tomreyn | the latest release of the english wikipedia dates back to early 2012. german is more current in case you prefer this. | 17:38 |
| NeutrinoPower | I want both | 17:39 |
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| tomreyn | hmm german is 3.9 TB while english is just 670 MB | 17:40 |
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| tomreyn | oh thats wrong | 17:40 |
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| tomreyn | EN is 13.8 GB :) | 17:40 |
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| WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: do you like it so far? | 17:47 |
| WizardNumberNext | everybody involved in KP project: what do you think about preempt-rt on N900? Will it improve anything or ruin expeperience instead? | 17:50 |
| tomreyn | WizardNumberNext: i like what? | 17:51 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am going to try out RT-kernel on my server (mind its amd64) and see how it behaves (NFS and SAMBA gets slow sometimes on no preemtion). I run all my x86 (centrino and 2 AMD Phenom II) on no preemption at the time | 17:52 |
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| WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: evopedia | 17:52 |
| tomreyn | WizardNumberNext: i'm not using it, it takes too much space. | 17:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: if it stores all tis on your HDD, then that sucks | 17:54 |
| tomreyn | well thats the point | 17:54 |
| tomreyn | so you dont have to be online | 17:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | I could store it on my server, but after I fix my 1TB drives and they sit, ready to be fixed on shelf for something like 2 months | 17:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | tomreyn: that is not my issue - I have 'all you can eat data', so I do not care about data | 17:56 |
| tomreyn | wikimedia already stores the data on their servers thanks to the many donations they receive, it's called wikipedia.org | 17:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | yes, wikipedia does the job, at least ost of the times | 17:57 |
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| freemangordon | ShadowJK: is that ok? http://pastebin.com/BkeUC9YZ | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | Samsung 64GB Pro UHS-1 | 18:27 |
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| kerio | holy balls | 18:29 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: ? | 18:30 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: those random writes | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | yeah :D | 18:31 |
| jacekowski | btw. have you seen nokia financial numbers | 18:31 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: try writing 64gb of random data over it first, though | 18:31 |
| kerio | to make sure it's not cheating | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | jacekowski: btw it was you with doxbox, ain't? | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | kerio: http://en.samaanet.com/?p=16415, I guess it is not | 18:32 |
| jacekowski | freemangordon: ? | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | kerio: i'd rather do random write test wint 1GB | 18:32 |
| kerio | also run the same test on the n900 itself, too :) | 18:33 |
| freemangordon | jacekowski: was it you the dosbox maintainer | 18:33 |
| freemangordon | kerio: how? | 18:33 |
| kerio | wine, ofc | 18:33 |
| kerio | :P | 18:33 |
| kerio | there must be an IO benchmark for linux | 18:33 |
| jacekowski | freemangordon: no | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | jacekowski: ok, sorry | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | aah, it was javispedro :) | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | kerio: there is, iozone iirc | 18:35 |
| kerio | freemangordon: 64gb swap partition gogogogogo | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 18:35 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: btw benchmark is made with card in n900 connected via usb | 18:49 |
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| kerio | oh, good enough then, i suppose | 18:49 |
| freemangordon | yep. I guess we can't go more than 10MB/s anyway. but random write is impressive | 18:50 |
| freemangordon | *write speed | 18:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | I note that I got 24mbyte read using emmc and SD | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | a leetle more if you use one nand too | 18:55 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: on device? | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | tyres | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | concurrent dad's | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | dd's | 18:55 |
| freemangordon | I guess it depends on io scheduler settings. I did the test with stock settings | 18:56 |
| freemangordon | though I don't think sequental io matters much on n900 | 18:57 |
| SpeedEvil | stock here too | 19:04 |
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| freemangordon | could you givme the commend? | 19:04 |
| freemangordon | *command | 19:04 |
| SpeedEvil | mum | 19:04 |
| freemangordon | to run it here | 19:04 |
| freemangordon | ok | 19:04 |
| SpeedEvil | umm | 19:04 |
| SpeedEvil | just something like time dd if=... of=/dev/null bs=131072 count=a gigs worth | 19:05 |
| freemangordon | ok | 19:06 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: iostat reports ~15500KB/s | 19:08 |
| SpeedEvil | as I understant it, 25mhz is the maximum clock | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | so 12.5 will be the hard maximum performance | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | afaik it is 50MHz, but could be wrong | 19:11 |
| freemangordon | dd of=./tst if=/dev/zero bs=131072 count=65536, iostat reports between 4000 and 10000 KB/s | 19:11 |
| freemangordon | doing the same with bs=4096 increases write speed to ~14000KB/s | 19:13 |
| freemangordon | hmm I like that card :D | 19:14 |
| ShadowJK | freemangordon; empty card? | 19:14 |
| freemangordon | yes | 19:14 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: what is the difference? | 19:15 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I get 200-ish IOPS on blank sandisk class 4 too, collapses to 1-2 once all pages have been touched | 19:15 |
| freemangordon | I guess it will take a while until all 64GB of pages got touched :) | 19:16 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: any idea how to test random io on the device? | 19:16 |
| ShadowJK | I was trying to compile coffeemug rebench the other day, but got stuck on libaio | 19:17 |
| freemangordon | well, i guess i can run ubuntu installer and check what iostat reports then | 19:18 |
| freemangordon | i'll rerun diskmark random write with 1GB file | 19:22 |
| ShadowJK | how long does the benchmark run? | 19:23 |
| ShadowJK | does it keep file around? | 19:23 |
| freemangordon | yes, it keeps the file | 19:23 |
| freemangordon | bot I will watch iostat in the meantime ;) | 19:23 |
| freemangordon | finished ;) | 19:24 |
| ShadowJK | I magine if you ran it 5-10 minutes on same file it'd start declining | 19:24 |
| freemangordon | Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 2.407 MB/s [ 587.7 IOPS] | 19:24 |
| freemangordon | Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 1.086 MB/s [ 265.0 IOPS] | 19:24 |
| freemangordon | i'll run it again | 19:25 |
| freemangordon | oh, no, it creates new file every time :( | 19:25 |
| ShadowJK | how long does it take to run once? | 19:26 |
| freemangordon | 1-2 minutes | 19:26 |
| freemangordon | i guess I can set the benchmark what to do, lemme check | 19:27 |
| freemangordon | no, I can't :( | 19:28 |
| freemangordon | ok, sekomd run, same results | 19:28 |
| freemangordon | *second | 19:28 |
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| freemangordon | well, i'll partition the card and will put it in my primary, will benchmark again in a week or so | 19:28 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: how many iop/s was your data? | 19:30 |
| freemangordon | *adata | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | about 20 in steady state | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | that is I ran benchmark in one-minute chunks until numbers settled | 19:31 |
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| freemangordon | ShadowJK: or i'll create 1GB partition and will use it | 19:36 |
| ShadowJK | Would be interesting to test whether blanking stuff outside the 1G speeds the 1G | 19:40 |
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| wirr | hi everybody - how's the migration progressing? i've seen you published new wiki's ip addr... | 19:42 |
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| kerio | wirr: still waiting for the dns change from nokia afaik | 20:06 |
| wirr | kerio: looks like... Tech Email:hostmaster@nokia.com | 20:09 |
| wirr | Name Server:NS.NOKIA.COM | 20:09 |
| wirr | (whois for maemo.org) | 20:09 |
| wirr | you know how funding's proceeding? what's more needed, money or sponsoring ISPs providing hosting or housing? | 20:09 |
| kerio | hm, idk | 20:10 |
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| WizardNumberNext | two questions: n900: maximal SD(hc/xc) size? | 20:15 |
| WizardNumberNext | and wine? how the hell it work? does it emulates x86? | 20:15 |
| kerio | wine doesn't work, really | 20:17 |
| kerio | afaik there's no qemu+wine combination in the repos | 20:18 |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio: that is what I was thinking | 20:18 |
| kerio | the "wine" in extras-devel is to run recompiled windows applications compiled against the wine libs | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wirr: money more needed, and particularly a professional sysop needed | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | WizardNumberNext; well freemangordon is using a 64g card. do 128 ones exist? | 20:29 |
| ShadowJK | I'm guessing exfat doesn't work though :) | 20:32 |
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| Pali | ShadowJK, format it as ext3 (or if you have kernel-power as ext4) | 20:57 |
| Pali | I think that the best filesystem for SD cards is ext4 | 20:57 |
| ShadowJK | On sheevaplug I use nilfs2 | 20:58 |
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| Pali | there is some side effect in ext4 implementation which cause better performace as ext3 for sd cards... | 20:58 |
| Pali | exfat is from design step back | 20:59 |
| Pali | I really do not understand why they chosed it as *default* filesystem for SDXC | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | what else? | 21:02 |
| SpeedEvil | ext2/4/... are not supported on most computers | 21:02 |
| Pali | and is exfat supported? | 21:04 |
| Pali | and is exfat better then other FS? | 21:04 |
| Pali | and is there exfat specification? | 21:04 |
| Pali | is there reference implementation (portable for other systems)? | 21:05 |
| Pali | really, as replacement for old fat32 which is supported on more computer is UDF | 21:06 |
| Pali | there is not stupid 4GB limit, so as filesystem for backup/storage is usable | 21:06 |
| SpeedEvil | and yes, it's retarded | 21:06 |
| Pali | and UDF is supported on lot of system and configurations | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | fundamentally, Microsoft is an using its monopoly posaition,. | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | abusing | 21:07 |
| Pali | its funny that nobody written ext4 driver for windows | 21:09 |
| Pali | but there exists more ext4 implementations in other non windows systems... | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume there is fine | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | one | 21:10 |
| Pali | where? | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I was using one back in 1995ish | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | well. ext2 | 21:10 |
| Pali | ext2 is here | 21:10 |
| Pali | (and usable for ext3 without journal) | 21:11 |
| Pali | but writing with ext2 driver to ext4 is not working... | 21:11 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, UDF.. wonder if that would work on sd.. | 21:24 |
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| kerio | sure, why not | 21:27 |
| kerio | well, probably not on windows | 21:27 |
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| ShadowJK | I vaguely recall trying to use udf on -rw, not successful :) | 21:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 23:21 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:21 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: srsly, set up sasl | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | meh | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | why? | 23:29 |
| kerio | cuz it's cool! | 23:29 |
| kerio | also, * DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) entra in #maemo | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | friggin ZNC not in centOS default repos | 23:29 |
| kerio | just compile from the tarball | 23:30 |
| kerio | it's a nice, round version 1.0 now | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and the above only happens when I reboot the bouncer | 23:30 |
| kerio | *when the bouncer connects to IRC | 23:30 |
| kerio | this is freenode, remember | 23:30 |
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| wirr | DocScrutinizer05, regarding sysop, is there some info on tmo about what skills and time is required? | 23:32 |
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| freemangordon | wirr: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88632 | 23:46 |
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| luf | freemangordon: :) I don't want to stop working on bluez and others packages ... | 23:52 |
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| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon: I've heard you're using 64gb sd card on your n900. Do you know if it is generaly supported or is it rather matter of luck? I mean do you have any idea about addressing issues? I do not know, if SD card is more alike pure FLASH or is it block device (means interface between FLASH and SD card interface itself) | 23:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | SpeedEvil: I never had run into any computer, which doesn't support ext2/3/4! It is up to OS only. And I know only ONE OS, which doesn't support ext2/3/4 and I think you know the name of that crap. | 23:56 |
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| Corsac | WizardNumberNext: you mean OS X? | 23:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | I would not let windows read my SD card anyway. Last it touched my HDD I lost 400GiB of data - it was last time it had access to my hardware | 23:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | Oh, I forgot that creator of OS X exists | 23:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | sorry ;) | 23:58 |
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| WizardNumberNext | who uses OS X? only fanatics I presume. No games, no software, no nothing - what is use of that? Fancy graphics? I have that for ages on my GNU/Linux | 23:59 |
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