IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-01-10

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DocScrutinizer05sscd, THANKS00:19
DocScrutinizer05that's been the magic word00:19
DocScrutinizer05I'll try it in 10 min00:19
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Guest16821Hello, I get from time to time  “Internet Connection Failed” “Retry?” on my n900. Can I configure the n900 simply to retry without asking?00:37
MrPingufasta: Noticed the same, wifi on N900 is way better than all other handhelds00:41
fastaMrPingu: who made the actual chip?00:41
MrPinguwl1251 ;)00:42
fastaMrPingu: my atheros chip is better (but it's in a laptop)00:42
MrPingufasta: with handhelds, I didnt mean laptops00:42
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fastaMrPingu: are they the same package?00:42
fastaMrPingu: I understood.00:43
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fastaMrPingu: I mean: can a laptop chip be put into a cellphone?00:43
MrPinguI don't know, I dont have enough knowledge of HW designing to answer that one00:44
MrPinguWhat I assume you can use any wlanchip on any motherboard00:47
MrPinguDoc: ^00:47
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DocScrutinizer51sorry, doc doesn't highlight here01:00
MrPinguanyway, HW design is your topic ;)01:01
DocScrutinizer51the chips don't differ for cellphone01:01
DocScrutinizer51antenna does01:02
MrPinguThat's what I thought01:02
DocScrutinizer51and for embedded you more and more prefer BT+WLAN combo chips01:03
DocScrutinizer51bbiab, afk01:03
MrPinguNah, it makes a2dp + browsing over wlan horrible :(01:03
ShadowJKit's separate chip on n9001:04
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Sysaxedhow can I delay command execution until some specific time? Is there alternative to "at" command?01:46
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WizardNumberNextDocScrutinizer51: I would not say that chips do not differ between laptop and mobile - mobile doesn't have PCI-e or PCI, laptop doesn't have SPI or I2C (easily accessible and "extenable")02:12
DocScrutinizer51I don't think there are many WLAN chips with PCI-E interface02:13
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DocScrutinizer51I might be wrong since I never checked02:14
DocScrutinizer51sysax gone, meh02:15
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WizardNumberNextthere are just few, I know I was looking for top-notch wifi chip02:22
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DocScrutinizer05anyway to lurkers which might be curious: alternative to "at" for maemo5 is "alarmed" app03:12
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DocScrutinizer05with a tiny bit of help from my side on the general concept and the API03:14
DocScrutinizer05and UI03:14
DocScrutinizer05Complete CLI-Interface03:17
DocScrutinizer05Support for Cron syntax like "23,26 */3 1,2 * *"03:17
DocScrutinizer05Support for date syntax like "now + 10 minutes"03:17
DocScrutinizer05probably mostly courtesy DocScrutinizer0503:18
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DocScrutinizer05mrpingu also gone. meh again03:21
DocScrutinizer05anyway again for lurkers: WLAN and BT (A2DP) interfering by design, not by chip consolidation which rather improves coexistence03:23
spoofyUgh Doc?03:23
DocScrutinizer05IOW: using two antennae isn't an advantage, it's a waste of hw resources03:24
spoofyCan u upload my nmap package to repo?03:24
DocScrutinizer05spoofy: I have not any better access to repo than you03:24
spoofyUh ok :)03:24
spoofyok nevermind, sorry ;)03:24
DocScrutinizer05~literal #maemo DNS03:25
infobot"#maemo dns" is " and"03:25
DocScrutinizer05~forget #maemo dns03:25
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot #maemo dns03:25
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo interim-dns is " and"03:26
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0503:26
infobotinterim-dns is, like, " and"03:26
DocScrutinizer05~dns google.com03:27 is
DocScrutinizer05~dns wiki.maemo.org03:29 is
DocScrutinizer05spoofy: I don't know if autobuilder already is up and running on one of the new vhosts03:31
DocScrutinizer05blease try ~interim-dns and report back03:31
DocScrutinizer05please* OMFG03:31
spoofyI don't care about autobuilder. I have all nesesery pacakges03:31
spoofyYou can test it if you want03:32
DocScrutinizer05you can't upload binary packages to repo03:32
spoofyWhat? Why?03:32
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DocScrutinizer05for security reasons03:32
spoofyI didn't read wiki about uploading :x03:32
DocScrutinizer05upload source, autobuilder creates binaries that are guaranteed to match the sourcecode03:33
spoofyOh well.. I think I'll ask jacekowski or run my own repo03:33
DocScrutinizer05nobody with a brain will host unchecked binaries for you03:33
DocScrutinizer05after all they could contain *any* malware03:34
spoofybut everybody can look inside it and inside a orig.deb03:34
spoofyand .diff03:34
DocScrutinizer05yes, if autobuilder guarantees that source and binary are in sync03:34
spoofyYes.. couse It's all about making botnet on n900s users..03:35
DocScrutinizer05that's the reasoning anyway03:35
spoofyI think that someone update something is more important than that03:35
DocScrutinizer05that's your take03:36
spoofyUh.. So at least can you test it yourself? :)03:36 will not support it03:36
DocScrutinizer05lots of people share .deb on tmo03:37
DocScrutinizer05but repos won't import binaries03:37
spoofyok, ok > the autobuilder will chceck sync betwen my package and orginal source03:37
spoofybut what will happen if I patch something?03:38
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DocScrutinizer05you upload source, autobuilder creates binary from it03:38
spoofyautobuilder will read the <name_of_package>/debian/patches folder?03:38
DocScrutinizer05the result is a sourcode that's in sync with the binary03:39
spoofyw8 I'll read wiki about it03:40
DocScrutinizer05if you want to share binaries, you can post on tmo and attach .deb03:40
spoofyI want to share all of my work - many, many .deb also with sources03:41
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DocScrutinizer05then you either go autobuilder (via garage) old school path like everybody, or you run your own repo and make users at that repo/catalog to HAM03:44
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: then you either go autobuilder (via garage) old school paddh like everybody, or you run your own repo and make users at that repo/catalog to HAM03:45
DocScrutinizer05s/ at / add /03:45
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: then you either go autobuilder (via garage) old school path like everybody, or you run your own repo and make users add that repo/catalog to HAM03:45
spoofyYeah.. and finally make a mirror of the "official" repos03:45
spoofythat makes sens ;)03:46
DocScrutinizer05that's the final consequence, if you want to avoid autobuilder03:46
spoofyUgh.. maybe I'll have some time to "play" with autobuilder03:46
spoofybut more important to me is to update everything I can03:47
DocScrutinizer05take maintainership if the package already exists, upload source to autobuilder, watch it pop up in extras-devel. profit03:48
spoofyfrom adding small perl modules, some small packages, to updated webkit, midori, nmap, subversion etc.03:48
DocScrutinizer05s/ if / of /03:48
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: take maintainership of the package already exists, upload source to autobuilder, watch it pop up in extras-devel. profit03:48
DocScrutinizer05meh, forget that03:48
spoofyI know my english is lame :D But I can perfectly understand everything - You don't need to write it twice :P03:49
DocScrutinizer05just trying to correct typos that aren't even there03:50
DocScrutinizer05sorry for that03:50
jpinx "maintainership" is not a word :p God -what is happening to English ?03:51
DocScrutinizer05anyway I know the concept behind quite some maemo services isn't instantly obvious, but it makes sense03:52
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: dunno. What's english?03:52
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spoofyYeah.. right.. Now tell me how I've made a postgres working -,-03:53
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: sometimes I wonder - and I teach it :(03:53
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: my native language is assembler03:53
DocScrutinizer05and I know my english is poor03:53
spoofyDocScrutinizer05: tell me about your life in assembler :D03:53
spoofyffffff0fff0fff :D03:53
DocScrutinizer05whatever, enjoy yourself, folks03:54
spoofyCya! ;)03:55
jpinxeeeeeh - what's up Doc ? ;)03:56
robbiethe1st<DocScrutinizer05> I'm Hunting Wabbits!03:57
DocScrutinizer05~0xeeeee * 103:58
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(03:59
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robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer05, - 97867004:03
DocScrutinizer05jpinx: actually I try to improve my pidgin. since, you know, 8 people from random locations of the world meet for a business meeting. 7 are talking pidgin, one is an englishman. Guess who's the one who didn't manage to make his point04:04
robbiethe1stalso, 0x520FD804:04
robbiethe1sthuh, that's also a color, cool!04:05
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: so true - I see it all the time04:08
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uncloudedall of your English is awesome04:23
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DocScrutinizer05all your base are belong to us04:29
* jpinx kicks the wall.04:29
jonwilAnother reason not to buy a Nokia Windows Phone phone04:29
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jonwiloh wait, the Nokia Asha 302 is Synbian04:30
jonwilwait no, its S4004:30
jonwilin any case, that article is a good reason not to buy a Nokia phone that happens to have that specific feature04:31
DocScrutinizer05+wiki all your base04:31
DocScrutinizer05~wiki all your base04:31
spoofy -- unknown <spoofy@>  Thu, 10 Jan 2013 03:25:21 +010004:31
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{pp-move-vandalism|small=yes}} ".]] {{Contains Japanese text}} "'All your base are belong to us'" (often shortened to "'All Your Base'", "'AYBABTU'", or simply "'AYB'") is an Engrish (broken English) phrase that became an Internet phenomenon or meme. The text comes from the opening cutscene of the 1991 European Sega Mega Drive version of the video game "Zero Wing" by Toaplan, ...04:31
spoofydamn it04:31
spoofyPhilipp Zabel <>04:32
spoofy^^ what you can tell me about this user?04:32
DocScrutinizer05>>On April 1, 2003, in Sturgis, Michigan, seven people aged 17 to 20 placed signs all over town that read, "All your base are belong to us. You have no chance to survive make your time." They claimed to be playing an April Fool's joke but most people who saw the signs were unfamiliar with the phrase. Many residents were upset that the signs appeared while the U.S. was at war with Iraq and police chief Eugene Alli said the signs could be04:37
DocScrutinizer05"a borderline terrorist threat depending on what someone interprets it to mean."<<04:37
DocScrutinizer05Eugene Alli for US president!04:38
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* DocScrutinizer05 thinks himself farting is a clear terrorist threat depending on nothing at all04:40
jpinxintrospective small-town USA is truly a dangerous place04:41
DocScrutinizer05luckily I don't live in brainfucked united states of america04:41
* jpinx blames the lack of education04:41
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* DocScrutinizer05 all of a sudden has a vivid memory of that wino George Doublewho looking under his desk at oval office and mumbling "no weapons of mass destruction here either. Damn, where are they?" And YOU call others terrorists???04:46
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DocScrutinizer05Caspar Weinberger telling extreme indigestible bullshit to the world, and our brillinat Joshka Fischer telling him what he can do with those lies04:48
spoofyOk I must go ugh04:49
spoofyDocScrutinizer05: You've doing great work with migration ;)04:49
spoofykeep it up dude! ;)04:49
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DocScrutinizer05will try, spoopfy. cya04:51
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XATRIXIs there any possibility to update my browsers flash plugin ?12:56
XATRIXA few flash players unable to play12:56
PaliXATRIX, this is last (unreleased) flash player by *nokia*
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XATRIXPali , says i have LNX 9,0,227,013:02
XATRIXCrap :(13:02
Palidid you installed that deb package and rebooted?13:02
XATRIXCurrently working on13:04
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internetishardjust switched to the nexus4 after all these years on the n900... Wow, if nokia (or another company) kept a phone like the n900 up to date it could totally be everything this thing is (and more)!13:31
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fastaWhat do the 100,000 employees of Nokia do?13:45
fastaCreating a phone takes perhaps 100 skilled people, marketing an additional 500.13:46
fluxfasta, what do you base those numbers on?13:46
fluxbut I guess the answer is: the manage other people :P13:47
fastaflux: several teams of EE for the hardware and CS people + some UI people  for the software.13:47
fastaI know some one man shows that created cellphones.13:48
fastaIt's 'commodity technology' almost.13:48
fluxfasta, did he also create all the software that current mobile phones come with?13:48
fastaflux: no, but that already exists now, doesn't it?13:48
fluxin nokia they keep rewriting them :)13:48
fastaflux: i.e. just put Linux on it.13:48
fluxyes, just putting linux on it solves the software side..13:49
fastaflux: creating some touch UI is perhaps a few months of work for one person.13:49
fastaI don't get why Ubuntu takes so long, though.13:49
fastaUnity is a trivial piece of software and they take ages to make it work.13:50
fastaI am not saying that creating the whole of maemo should take just a few months.13:51
fastaBut 30 or so core developers should be able to create a lot when managed well.13:51
fluxI shall claim that if it were that easy, there would be more competition13:52
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fluxbut we shall see what kind of a mobile phone Jolla has made with relatively little(?) resources13:52
fastaflux: AFAIK, the only problem is the patents.13:53
fastaPerhaps Nokia should just sell patent protection packages.13:53
fastaflux: on Youtube there are videos of people who created alternative mobile UIs for the N900 too.13:54
fluxfasta, I think the problem is not creating the 90% but, the remaining 10%13:54
fastaflux: you mean to make it bug free, etc.?13:55
fastaflux: and fast in all cases.13:55
fluxfasta, yes, make it a polished stable working end product customers want13:55
fastaAnd feature packed.13:55
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jpinxhttps browsing as well
jpinxbig trouble for nokia if they keep this up :(16:29
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eichihello! someone knows something about maemo5 and browser security? I mean: there are not much updates, means its maybe exploitable with some browser engine exploits? someone knows more about this?16:31
eichiI think about doing some "business" about my n900, but I'm not that sure, if its a good idea16:32
eichiabout = with...sorry, bad english16:32
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DocScrutinizer05eichi: the browser engine is open source and so far no exploits known. Flash plugin however is terribly outdated and seen none of the last 4 years' security updates Adobe published.16:36
DocScrutinizer05eichi: check ~cssu, there the cssu team ships security relevant updates when possible, recently we published a fix for the TURKSAT cert security threat16:38
infobotmethinks cssu is
eichiyeah, i use cssu updates allready. I'm just not sure about the browser and someone looks about it anymore16:40
eichi this is the source behind the browser, isnt it?16:42
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freemangordoneichi: if you use CSSU, here is the backend source code17:03
freemangordon(only for -T and -thumb though, stable is still on stock)17:04
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eichithanks, I will look at in some days17:06
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WizardNumberNexthello freemangordon. I have one question: how to create patch files? I have original vanilia kernel and the one patched with some patches. I actually want to create only one patch (0003 in yours), as I have broken it by accident and had to apply patch by hand.17:27
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fastlane`can i change the conversation app in n900?17:58
fastlane`where should I look for this, is it open source17:58
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Lava_CroftCompletely replace, probably not and iirc the application itself is not open source18:01
Lava_CroftBut as usual I'm not entirely sure18:01
fastlane`i have a lot of conversations,18:01
fastlane`3 years worth of em i guess18:01
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fastlane`and i think that maybe the reason my n900 maybe slower18:02
Lava_Croftlarger database is slower performance :<18:03
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fastlane`and if delete a conversation from the list, it takes a lot of time for it to disappear and for the rest of the list to adjust to the new position18:03
Lava_Croftim nowhere near technical enough to help you beyond 'remove conversations you don't need'18:04
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fastlane`do u know how to see which process is running behind this app/window18:05
keriofastlane`: afaik the messages are stored in a sqlite db18:06
kerioor possibly an EDS db18:06
kerioit's sqlite18:08
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fastlane`and which executable is it that conversation app is part of18:10
fastlane`also, since i dont know this, in linux how wud you investigate such a thing, like given a window find what executeable or library it belongs to18:11
keriofastlane`: i'm actually not sure, but you can check the process list18:11
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keriofrom there, you could find out which binary18:11
kerioand then check which libraries are used by that binary18:11
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fastlane`ps would do I guess,18:11
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keriofastlane`: xdotool getwindowpid18:12
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DocScrutinizer05((<fastlane`> and i think that maybe the reason my n900 maybe slower)) you can bet on that18:22
DocScrutinizer05fastlane`: it's basically not possible to replace the conversations app18:23
fastlane`it loads too much just in the start, i guess it loads just all of the hostory18:23
fastlane`what :o why :(18:23
DocScrutinizer05and it's closed, like all Nokia frontend/GUI stuff18:23
luffastlane`: do you really need so long history?18:24
lufAre you cyborg to list it? :D18:24
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fastaProbably old news, but is anything being done to fix this on the N900?
fastaAren't there like laws against corporate espionage?18:26
fastlane`there was this nice ap, glogarchive, but it kinda crashes on me.18:26
DocScrutinizer05the problem is from two causes I guess: 1) sqlite performance on huge ~user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db, 2) conversation app retrieving *all* conversations *via dbus* from rtcom process18:26
fastlane`so i think, what shud be done is a custom app to read/search archived conversations, while leave default conversations app for handling sms etc18:26
DocScrutinizer05good plan18:27
fastlane`run the archiver every month18:27
* fastlane` pats n90018:27
DocScrutinizer05it's probably possible to export conversations to some plaintext format or whatever, exploiting sqlite cmdline frontend on .rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db18:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: that would require someone who groks SQL18:28
ShadowJKfasta, only relevant for Asha and similar things18:28
DocScrutinizer05ooh yes, in your archives there should be plaintext conversations in one of the tarballs already18:28
ShadowJKOpera Mobile does the same thing with "Opera Turbo" enabled, except it's opera servers doing it18:28
fastlane`el-v1.db is just 8mb :o18:29
fastlane`for me18:29
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fastlane`so thats a lot of whole amount of text data i guess :$18:30
kerio72704B here18:30
kerioDocScrutinizer05: will it be rebuilt on boot?18:30
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 user users 642048 2013-01-10 17:17 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db18:30
fastlane`and what about this first time launchign of the Contacts app18:31
fastlane`300 contacts shudnt be much, what is it doing18:31
ShadowJKfasta, calling it an "attack" is kinda sensationalist and dumb. The "Browser" on those phones isn't a browser, it's a thin client to access the browser which runs on Nokia servers?18:32
keriofastlane`: you mean the event log?18:32
keriothe one that's stored in ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db?18:32
fastaShadowJK: which browser is it then?18:32
fastlane`oh no, a different thing, just came to my mind since i was talking about conversations,18:32
keriothe one that's 114 times bigger than mine?18:32
fastlane`the default Contact app of maemo18:33
fastaShadowJK: if it is like opera turbo it doesn't surprise me a lot.18:33
ShadowJKfasta, openwave or whatever?18:33
keriooh, the contacts18:33
fastlane`yea :)18:33
keriothat's an EDS db18:33
fastaShadowJK: but even then it should say that at startup.18:33
kerioi thought you meant phone18:33
fastaShadowJK: so, it's not even on the N900?18:33
ShadowJKfasta, no18:33
Palifasta, above problem is not on n90018:33
fastaShadowJK: ok, then it's semi-sensationalist.18:33
ShadowJKfasta, they fucking mention it in the bloody tv adverts, it's a big selling point, faster browser that uses less bandwidth18:34
keriohm, maybe it's not even an EDS18:34
kerioi'm not sure what osso-abook uses18:34
fastaShadowJK: perhaps they also mention it in the EULA.18:34
fastaShadowJK: or some similar document.18:34
fastaI can't imagine that they don't do that.18:34
fastaOtherwise it would be a legal suicide.18:35
ShadowJKfasta, btw, there's that Nokia Email thing too which does similar things18:35
ShadowJKI forget the name of it18:35
ShadowJK"Nokia Messaging" perhaps18:35
ShadowJKWhen you sign up for it and give it the user/pass to your email, Nokia Servers access your email, and use a more power and bandwidth efficient protocol to deliver it to your phone18:36
DocScrutinizer05when you use a concept much like VNC to browse the web, you shouldn't blame the VNCserver when it does MITM18:37
ShadowJKThe nokia server handles your shitty email server, and delivers it as push-email in a power efficient manner18:37
PaliDocScrutinizer05, what is the best irc client for n900?18:38
DocScrutinizer05common saerver-client design pattern18:38
DocScrutinizer05Pali: in my book still xchat, YMMV18:38
totalizatorPali: irrgu18:38
totalizatoryou can close UI and it runs in background18:39
DocScrutinizer05what's the use of *that*?18:39
totalizatorPali: *irGGu18:40
fastlane`hmm running in the backgroun and if it consumes less battery would be good,18:40
fastlane`while still logging chat.18:40
kerioPali: xchat18:40
totalizatorand irssi :)18:40
keriofastlane`: that's called a bouncer18:40
DocScrutinizer05it won't consume less power for just closing the GUI instead of putting it to background18:40
Paliok, going to install xchat18:40
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vi____only kidding, xchat beats irssi if you use docscrutinizers config files.18:41
DocScrutinizer05Pali: you'll want my xchat config file18:41
* kerio notices that doc+kerio >= vi+skry+totalizator :318:41
fastlane`i didnt have access to any bouncer kerio , so was using xchat to keep it online/running all the time, wud consume a lot of battery.18:41
DocScrutinizer05hehe, vi____ beat me to it18:41
vi____However page up down appears to not work in xchat.  Which sucks.18:41
PaliDocScrutinizer05, where is your config file? :-)18:42
fastlane`ok upload the config files!18:42
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infobotcp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "" >> /etc/hosts;
infobotcp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "" >> /etc/hosts;
infobotfrom memory, tm0 is trolls, mooses and orangutans18:42
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* kerio is partial to nokia sans semibold 1418:42
kerioor possibly 1218:42
kerionope, 1418:43
totalizatorfot is the biggest issue for me, everything is too small, hyh18:43
DocScrutinizer05~jrxchat is
infoboti already had it that way, DocScrutinizer0518:43
keriototalizator: having to use osso-xterm for irc would suck18:43
kerioyou don't really need a monospaced font18:44
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo jrxchat18:44
infobotjrxchat -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue Jul  3 23:24:17 2012 (190 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by DocScrutinizer05 at Sun Sep 16 13:57:58 2012.18:44
Palihas xchat SASL support?18:44
kerioPali: hm, not out of the box i think18:44
ShadowJKfasta, oh it's available as a download for Windows Phone too, the app "Xpress Browser"18:44
kerioi use znc18:45
keriowhich is the shit18:45
totalizatorkerio: um , why?18:45
Paliok, how to configure xchat?18:45
Paliwhere to store that files?18:45
DocScrutinizer05in ~user/.xchat2/18:45
keriothe default config really isn't that bad18:45
ShadowJKfasta, oh also, when they released it, they made this page
ShadowJKit has fucking pictures, with arrows, showing data going through nokia servers, for fucks sake :-)18:46
DocScrutinizer05Pali: you could do a diff between those already there and mine18:46
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DocScrutinizer05>>The Nokia Xpress Browser comprises a client and a cloud-based proxy service.<<18:48
DocScrutinizer05please remind me why we discuss this here?18:49
DocScrutinizer05after all it's Series4018:49
PaliDocScrutinizer05, how to turn off any sound & vibrate notification?18:50
DocScrutinizer05the default one is courtesy cehteh, see ~jrtools18:51
DocScrutinizer05my own scheme is around the scriptie18:51
keriodamn, i seem to lose around 15 seconds for each day18:51
Paliok, I disabled in notifier.sh18:52
DocScrutinizer05and exploits sound playback binary of xcaht18:52
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: dman, I seem to lose 29h per day18:52
kerioi meant on the n900 RTC18:53
keriohm, i wonder if ntpd does hwclock --systohc automatically18:53
DocScrutinizer05ntpd does 11minute mode18:53
keriono, wait, i *gained* around 15 seconds18:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, i'm manually running the ntpd oneshot18:53
DocScrutinizer05then it doesn't touch RTC18:54
DocScrutinizer05you should always call it in oneliners, linked &&18:54
DocScrutinizer05ntpd --foo && hwclock --systohc18:54
DocScrutinizer05ooh wait18:55
DocScrutinizer05ntpd --foo && hwclock --systohc --noadjfile18:55
keriothere's no such thing as an adjfile in the busybox hwclock18:55
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kerioso yeah18:56
DocScrutinizer05adjfile of hwclock is da fekking BS18:56
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keriodo you reckon it would be good to run the syncing automatically every $time?18:57
DocScrutinizer05clearly overengineered to fubar state18:57
kerioor possibly on every connection18:57
DocScrutinizer05the latter18:57
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DocScrutinizer05add it to ifup orwhatsitcalled18:58
DocScrutinizer05and NEVER do a hwclock --systohc on system shutdown18:58
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DocScrutinizer05on system shutdown your system time is more likely to be off than at any other point in time (except immediately after bootup)19:00
kerioi don't think icd2 calls ifup19:00
DocScrutinizer05I think it does call some script, no clue what'S the exact name19:00
Palikerio, how /load working?19:01
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Palihow to autoload sasl plugin?19:01
kerioidk, i don't use plugins in xchat19:01
DocScrutinizer05I guess xchat autoloads all available plugins at startup19:01
DocScrutinizer05refer to19:02
infobotcp /etc/hosts /etc/hosts-maemobackup && echo "" >> /etc/hosts;
DocScrutinizer05about notification plugin19:02
DocScrutinizer05# disable annoying xchat notifications introduced with some more recent update19:03
DocScrutinizer05# goes along with 'undocumented' command /notify_mode -vl - thanks cehteh :-/19:03
DocScrutinizer05mv /usr/lib/xchat/plugins /usr/lib/xchat/plugins_disabled19:03
DocScrutinizer05^^^ quick&dirty19:03
DocScrutinizer05makes me think xchat autoloads everything in  /usr/lib/xchat/plugins19:04
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^19:06
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Paliok, perl sasl plugin require perl module19:08
Paliand that is missing :-(19:08
* ShadowJK used /notify_mode to adjust notifications19:09
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's not sticky19:09
ShadowJKit is for me19:09
DocScrutinizer05OOOOH maybe I got fooled by general non-stickiness of xchat settings when xchat killed instead of ended regularly19:10
ShadowJKThough xchat doesn't save any settings when you change settings. Only saves on clean exit, or if you do /save19:10
DocScrutinizer05faster :-P19:11
DocScrutinizer05didn't know about /save though19:11
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r00t|homeShadowJK: there's a menu option to save on exit and save now19:12
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r00t|homesettings -> save settings (on exit [] )19:13
r00t|homesettings -> save settings (on exit []  | now)19:13
DocScrutinizer05oooooh sweet19:13
* DocScrutinizer05 checks19:13
r00t|homei used to have save on exit disabled on my compaq pda, because writing to flash was so slow(?) that xchat would hang for many seconds on exit19:14
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DocScrutinizer05can't find it in "settings" menu. Do you mean "preferences"?19:14
r00t|homenote that i am still using xchat1, maybe they removed it from xchat219:15
DocScrutinizer05N900 xchat is a tad different than usual laptop xchat19:15
kerionot by much, really19:15
r00t|homeit is at the bottom of the settings menu, on my desktop version19:15
DocScrutinizer05not on N90019:16
r00t|homethey moved some entries to "advanced" and removed the "save settings" ones...19:16
DocScrutinizer05they = RST38h19:17
ShadowJKI dont have it on desktop xchat here19:17
DocScrutinizer05I guess19:17
Paliseems that above ^^^^ C plugin is loaded19:17
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, how to change irc server port?19:22
Paliit trying 999919:23
DocScrutinizer05Pali: in network settings19:23
Palithere is no port settings19:23
Palionly server19:23
DocScrutinizer05iirc appending /<port> to server URL19:23
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DocScrutinizer059999 ? o.O19:24
Palithanks :-)19:24
DocScrutinizer05sounds quite non-standard for IRC19:24
DocScrutinizer05aah, you maybe trying ssl or sth?19:24
Paliadded /7000 and started connecting19:24
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Pali_nice, connected19:27
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Pali_maybe I will push that C sasl plugin to extras19:28
Pali_when extras will work again19:28
DocScrutinizer05good idea19:28
Pali_so when will be autobuilder online?19:29
DocScrutinizer05Pali_: please check new IP if autobuilder is working again19:29
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Palihow to set autojoin to channels in xchat?19:53
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r00t|homePali: in the server list19:54
r00t|homeor "network list"19:55
r00t|homeon the "connecting (2)" tab, very intuitive19:55
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r00t|homei guess you have to have used xchat before to know where to look19:57
DocScrutinizer05Pali: or on context menu of chantab list19:58
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DocScrutinizer05(only works in tab view, not in treeview)19:59
DocScrutinizer05Pali: when you're using my config, click and hold on tab on left side20:00
DocScrutinizer05indeed convenient20:00
kerioi think i never tried tab view on the n90020:00's like tree, isn't it20:01
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Paliit is possible to change background color of line?20:02
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DocScrutinizer05no, it's somehow consuming more real estate due to frame around each tab, and is has no treeview20:02
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kerioi think i'll go with hidden tabs actually20:03
keriomoar space for text20:03
DocScrutinizer05and it has context menu20:03
keriohell, i could show the userlist20:03
DocScrutinizer05which is why I use it20:03
kerioit never does any good though20:03
keriocontext menu for what?20:03
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DocScrutinizer05to add to favorites, to enable/disable join/quit/nick events, etc20:04
keriofavourites are meaningless for me, anyway20:05
DocScrutinizer05same here ;-)20:05
DocScrutinizer05thanks ZNC20:05
keriothere's just znc's joined, stickied channels that are attached, and znc's joined, stickied channels that aren't attached20:05
keriobut will attach on the first message20:05
DocScrutinizer05uhum, well here ZNC always makes xchat join all channels, probbaly due to buffer playback20:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: with autoattach?20:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: /znc detach *20:07
DocScrutinizer05i rarely look at my ZNC settings20:07
keriothere's no way to undo that, though20:07
DocScrutinizer05I think it's ZNC stickychan module20:07
keriostickychan will keep you in channels20:08
keriobut will let you detach20:08
kerioit's more that you can't actually part them on the server side20:08
Paliwhen I'm closing xchat it ask me for minimalize... what it is?20:08
kerioPali: something that doesn't really work on the n90020:08
keriounless you install the freedesktop-compatible status tray status menu applet20:09
DocScrutinizer05which you probably don't want to20:09
PaliI saw some dead process20:09
keriowell, it's just one extra button in the status menu20:09
Palibut next start it will load new instance...20:09
* kerio has *eight* entries already20:10
Paliit should work like other hildon launcher apps20:10
Paliit will check via dbus if app running20:10
Paliand if not it will spawn it20:10
Paliif yes show main window20:10
Paliand libosso has wrappers for that...20:11
kerioplus the hidden flashlight, fmtx, bt audio status, usb mode, bt transfer, sync status20:11
kerioi need a bigger status menu D:20:11
Palikerio, if somebody rewrite nokia usb plugin I'd like to merge it with my usbmode20:12
DocScrutinizer05Pali: nfc, I never actually use it. Xchat running here basically all the time. When I close it, I really close it. then I eventually have to click my desktop shortcut to start it again20:12
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kerioPali: isn't it vaguely more logical to merge it with the battery status, though?20:12
kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but you're cheating, you use a bouncer :)20:13
DocScrutinizer05I didn't during first maybe 6 months20:13
Paliwhat is bouncer?20:13
DocScrutinizer05and mostly I changed to bouncer to save other users in all channels from the frequent re-joining events20:14
kerioPali: something to cheat at #idlerpg20:14
DocScrutinizer05Pali: e.g. ZNC is a IRC bouncer20:14
kerioand also to get 24/7 irc logs20:14
kerioyour bouncer connects to IRC, you connect to your bouncer as if it's the IRC server20:14
kerioit keeps the connection open and the channels joined20:15
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DocScrutinizer05so basically a proxy20:15
keriousually does stuff like replaying the messages you missed from the channels you're in20:15
kerioand some more neat stuff too20:15
DocScrutinizer05Pali: you ever see DocScrutinizer51 leaving/joining?20:15
kerioit's because doc has NO LIFE20:16
kerioor possibly because it's actually a bouncer20:16
DocScrutinizer05it's because I have proxies :-P20:16
Palibut then I do not see when you are connected...20:17
DocScrutinizer05I'm always connected - simple as that20:17
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DocScrutinizer05just that IRC messages sometimes are not buffered in xchat buffer when I'm not watching20:19
DocScrutinizer05but they are buffered anyway, and when I start watching again, they are presented to me no matter what20:20
PaliDocScrutinizer05, but I do not know when you read messages...20:21
DocScrutinizer05you never know20:21
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DocScrutinizer05do I know if you're looking at your screen this moment? No I don't20:21
Paliand I do not know if you can repoly or not...20:21
DocScrutinizer05but with me using a bouncer you can be sure I'll notice anything you post the next time I look at my screen20:22
Palibut when I'm offline, then I'm not reading messages for sure20:23
Paliand bouncer disable this condition20:23
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kerioPali: yeah but doc *will* read every message eventually20:24
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keriobesides, i'm not sure if doc uses it but znc has a module called simple_away that sets your away status to "away" if no client is connected20:24
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not using that, for vaious reasons: a) it's a privacy issue to me, b) it generally sucks, particularly when changing your nick or - worse - sending away msg20:30
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DocScrutinizer05c) other considerations of more the technical kind20:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not changing your nick20:31
keriochanging the away status20:31
keriothere *is* such a thing in IRC20:31
DocScrutinizer05I know20:31
DocScrutinizer05it frequently makes me angry when I query somebody who forgot to reset his away status20:32
keriogregoa: ping20:32
gregoakerio: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.20:32
kerioor ^this20:32
DocScrutinizer05which is more usual than not to forget it20:32
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fastlane`lshal|grep battery21:20
fastlane`cuz i got a battery full msg, but bettery.charge_level.percentage is showing 4321:21
WizardNumberNextfastlane: what is voltage and current_now?21:21
WizardNumberNextand what is your charge_full and charge_now?21:23
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fastlane`  battery.voltage.current = 4175  (0x104f)  (int)21:23
fastlane` = 4200  (0x1068)  (int)21:23
WizardNumberNextis it on charger or something?21:23
WizardNumberNextI never got so high voltage21:23
SpeedEvillithium ion will be fully charged at that21:24
SpeedEvila minimum of 80%21:24
WizardNumberNexteven when current_now was very close to zero and still on minus21:24
fastlane`connected to laptop21:24
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WizardNumberNextthis would explain it - slow charge allowed it to surpass magical 4.166v21:25
DocScrutinizer05fastlane`: no, lshal is not exactly reliable, it often has huge delay to update values21:27
WizardNumberNextfastlane: cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/uevent21:27
WizardNumberNextif you do not have file, then modprobe bq27x00-battery21:28
DocScrutinizer05no, bq27x00-battery module is of unclear status at best21:28
fastlane`/sys/class doesnt have any power_supply in it21:29
DocScrutinizer05for older powerkernels it's even STRONGLY deprecated21:29
DocScrutinizer05use bq27200.sh21:29
keriothe bq27k/bq24k kernel modules are still somewhat experimental21:29
WizardNumberNextit does work for me on pk-5121:30
fastlane`i'm running powerkernel 5021:30
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keriorun something that uses i2c, like bq27200.sh21:30
WizardNumberNextit doesn't lie for me21:31
DocScrutinizer05PK50 should come with bq27x00 module blacklisted afaik, and for a reason21:31
WizardNumberNextit is blacklisted21:31
WizardNumberNextI load it by /etc/modules21:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nothing loads those automatically21:31
DocScrutinizer05you have read the BIG FAT WARNING?21:31
keriohm, when installing KP maybe21:32
DocScrutinizer05dunno where, probably on KP49/5021:32
WizardNumberNextnormaly I ignore warnings21:32
keriothat explains *so* many things21:32
WizardNumberNextI have enough experience to live with problems and solve them21:33
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keriobesides, loading those modules at boot time will royally fuck up with bme21:33
WizardNumberNextit will21:33
WizardNumberNextI already know it21:34
DocScrutinizer05so you're in for a real surprise, in former kernels they fucked up I2C locking, this opening race condition resulting in even hw damage. In newer kernels they removed that idiocy, thus bq27x00 module will lock the I2C for that chip, and eventually bme will fail21:34
WizardNumberNextn900 would get into end-less loop of rebooting21:34
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WizardNumberNextI do not care about BME21:34
DocScrutinizer05n900 might emit blue magic smoke, depending on which I2C communication got messed up, when locking been disabled21:35
WizardNumberNextthen this explains, why from time I switched to bq27200 instead of BME my N900 doesn't reboot anymore (only dies, when battery reaches 3.2 or bellow)21:35
fastlane`is there anything that wud force lshal to update its values21:35
DocScrutinizer05iirc status battery applet updates hal21:36
WizardNumberNextby the way I tried all the scripts to charge battery and check it health state and BME was in a way, even when it was STOPed21:36
kerioWizardNumberNext: no it wasn't21:36
keriobme is harmless, when stopped21:37
DocScrutinizer05yeah, when `stop`ed not when `kill -SIGSTOP`ed21:37
WizardNumberNextmaybe it is harmless, but after few seconds N900 would reboot, no matter what I would do, even I wouls start it back21:37
kerioyep, you SIGSTOPped it21:38
WizardNumberNextI know how to pause process and how to unpause it - if I don't remember I see into man kill21:38
keriowhen people say to stop bme, they mean `stop bme`21:38
DocScrutinizer05no you evidently don't21:38
kerioaka `initctl stop bme`21:38
fastlane`i did a lshal -m21:39
DocScrutinizer05believe me, I also know about kill  -SIGSTOP since ~30 years21:39
WizardNumberNextanyway I wasn't able to use any of those scripts and now I can see real values and it does charge and discharge properly, not like with BME21:39
fastlane`and the voltage.current is changing after every few seconds21:39
kerioi, too, know about kill -STOP, but not since ~30 years because i'm not old enough21:40
WizardNumberNextdoc are you UNIX user?21:40
keriofastlane`: afaik hald-addon-bme is responsible for updating the data in hal21:40
DocScrutinizer05rather *NIX admin21:40
WizardNumberNextthis explains your old knowledge (doesn't mean bad, just old)21:41
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fastlane`kerio, that needs to be installed or is it already there, i'm not familiar with it21:41
kerioit's stock21:41
WizardNumberNextdoc, I am not only GNU/Linux user - I am admin as well - have 3 servers under me at the moment21:41
DocScrutinizer05you need to accept that maemo is a tiny bit different than any sane unix admin would expect21:42
DocScrutinizer05sometimes that's annoying, but it doesn't help21:42
WizardNumberNextfastlane: bq27200 DEVICE (battery monitor, which is on battery) is updating something like every 60 seconds (not sure about how often)21:42
DocScrutinizer05bme anyway gets started by dsmetool, via initctl21:43
DocScrutinizer05so stopping it makes dsme angry and results in reboot21:43
DocScrutinizer05you need to shut down the service by issuing `stop bme`21:43
WizardNumberNextI already dug it somewhere about dsme and bme21:43
WizardNumberNextthat explains problems21:43
WizardNumberNextthere's too much of dependency on low-level21:44
WizardNumberNextI would never like21:44
DocScrutinizer05battery is lowlevel :-)21:44
Palibme is not started by dsme21:45
DocScrutinizer05actually bme is way too "high2 a level for decent battery management21:45
Palibut started by upstart21:45
DocScrutinizer05Pali: oh?21:45
DocScrutinizer05I thought upstart using dsmetool to start bme21:45
Palithere is upstart script which reboot device if bme was not stopped by upstart21:45
WizardNumberNextPali that is very usefull knowledge21:46
DocScrutinizer05and there's IPC between dsme and bme to assure bme is alive21:46
Paliupstart script touching some file when starting and stopping bme21:46
Paliand calling some pre/post scripts21:46
DocScrutinizer05when you kill -sigstop bme, dsme gets angry21:46
Paliand if you kill bme process then prestop script is not called21:47
DocScrutinizer05at least that's what I seem to recall how things work21:47
Palistopping file is not created21:47
Paliand in poststop script is reboot command21:47
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's all kinda correct when killing bme, not though when sigstopping bme process21:49
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Palistopsig should work21:49
Paliupstart should not handle stopsig21:50
DocScrutinizer05kill -sigstop bme causing reboot after 60s21:50
DocScrutinizer05via dsme21:50
DocScrutinizer05try it if you don't believe me21:50
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WizardNumberNextPali: he is right - I would always get reboot after "killall -STOP bme_rx-51'21:52
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: you're also right, event.d/bme directly calls "exec /usr/sbin/bme_RX-51"21:55
DocScrutinizer05then bme talks to dsme directly via IPC, to enable monitoring watchdog21:55
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Paliso then upstart handle also sigstop22:06
DocScrutinizer05you think upstart chatting with bme via IPC?22:06
DocScrutinizer05PPID of bme_rx51 = 122:09
DocScrutinizer05aka init22:09
DocScrutinizer05but I don't think init is doing watchdog monitoring of bme process22:10
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gregoakerio: :) (and (re)setting away should happen automigically, everything else makes no sense)22:12
DocScrutinizer05some years back when investigating how to operate bq24150 chip, we had some strace bme logs, and I think I recall it talking to dsme via a socket22:13
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WizardNumberNextI am interested, if there is any use of GPGPU on SGX for/on maemo22:31
freemangordon GPGPU? you mean something like CUDA?22:32
WizardNumberNextyes, I mean something like CUDA22:33
freemangordonnever heard of anything like that22:33
WizardNumberNextTI states in their datasheet for omap34xx, that SGX does have such capability22:33
freemangordonwhy one should need GPU to perform such tasks, when we have DSP22:34
WizardNumberNextjust matter of curiosity22:34
keriofreemangordon: why not?22:34
freemangordonwhich is way more powerful than GPU afaik22:34
freemangordonkerio: ^^^22:34
keriovideo on dsp, protein folding on sgx22:34
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keriopulseaudio on cpu22:34
freemangordonkerio: aah, yes :D:D:D22:34
WizardNumberNextanyway, can imagine what fine-tuned app could do, when it would be using CPU, DSP and GPGPU at the same damn time?22:35
kerioWizardNumberNext: answer: very little that couldn't be done with just dsp and cpu22:35
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freemangordonWizardNumberNext: it seems you have modified your n900 to have a heatsink attached to the Soc :D22:35
WizardNumberNextkerio: I do realize, that you can do pretty much everything od DSP, not to mention CPU22:36
WizardNumberNextI am thinking about heatsink22:36
freemangordonthink twice ;)22:36
WizardNumberNextbut risk of loosing S0C, because of heatsink is rather not appealing22:37
WizardNumberNextat the moment I am investigating what frequency is best power-safer22:39
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: 50022:39
infobotWizardNumberNext meant: at the moment I am investigating what frequency is best power-saver22:39
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freemangordonjust ask, we'll tell you :)22:39
WizardNumberNextfreemangordon: it look-like, but remember I have different voltages22:40
kerioWizardNumberNext: also having the default voltages is safer22:40
* freemangordon wonders why vi____ is so quiet these days and hopes everything is fine with him22:40
WizardNumberNextand at the moment I cannot tell you, because I wait half hour for results for 600MHz22:40
WizardNumberNextkerio: default voltage for 600MHz is 1.35v, I am running 1.1125v22:42
WizardNumberNextand TI states 1.2v22:42
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kerioi'm sure that the .24v of difference will make your battery life tenfold22:43
WizardNumberNextdefinitely not, but still would extend it22:44
WizardNumberNextit is 10% more then starving22:44
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WizardNumberNextI have tried 5% more and 7.5% percent more, but both turned out to be unstable22:45
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WizardNumberNextfreemangordon: disagree with 500MHz!22:58
WizardNumberNextUsed: 70329 uAh, Average load: 208800 uA at 600 MHz22:58
WizardNumberNextUsed: 72114 uAh, Average load: 216000 uA at 500 MHz22:59
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: depends on the load22:59
freemangordonwhat did you use to test that?22:59
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WizardNumberNextI fixed frequency 'cpufreq-set -d 500000 -u 500000' and 'cpufreq-set -d 600000 -u 600001'22:59
WizardNumberNextjust left it alone and see how much it would use23:00
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: ever heard of kernel-power-settings?23:00
WizardNumberNext3G, BT, 802.11 - all on, connected to 802.1123:00
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: sorry, but that is nonsense23:00
freemangordonlocking the governor does not mean the device does not enter C0 state23:01
freemangordonmeasuring idle current means nothing23:01
WizardNumberNextI do use kernel-power-settings, but when I need it only for while, then it is much easier for me to use cpufreq-set23:01
kerioyou should check with powertop i think23:01
WizardNumberNextpowertop ?23:01
kerioWizardNumberNext: `kernel-config lock 500` and `kernel-config lock 600`23:02
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: yes, powertop. and you should do your measurements under 100% CPU load, not on idle23:02
WizardNumberNextfreemangordon - that is what I want to see - on which frequency I would use less power - considering sleep and off states23:02
freemangordonone and the same task23:02
kerioit makes sense that locking at 600 while idling uses less power, it's faster to go back to idle23:02
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: try 250 ;)23:02
WizardNumberNextthanks - been there - it takes most of energy23:03
ApicWhen the Fuck will Nokia release Ovi Maps with Voice-Guided-Navigation like they promised for Years?23:03
kerioApic: ...wat23:03
Apic(Didn't check if they actually did, I assume not)23:03
WizardNumberNextI am confirming 600MHz at the monent - 30minutes till end23:03
freemangordonApic: but, but, they did it23:03
keriothey never promised that, and they never will23:03
kerio(on n900)23:03
freemangordonkerio: come on, they did it. on HARM :P23:03
Apicfreemangordon: Ok. Where can I leech the current Ovi Maps?23:03
Apickerio: B-(23:04
kerioApic: i hope your N9 emulator is fast enough23:04
ApicIs there one for N900?23:04
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: also you should perform your test in offline mode23:04
ApicYou probably were joking, right?23:05
WizardNumberNextI would like to see maps with voice guidance as well23:05
freemangordonas you can never know what is going on with radios23:05
WizardNumberNextI am going to, but not today23:05
freemangordonApic: yes23:05
kerioApic: if you want a gps with voice navigation, try modrana23:05
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freemangordonor MM1023:05
kerioor, well, there's sygic23:05
keriobut the sygic maps are outdated23:05
Apickerio: Is this in the Program Manager or extras-devel?23:05
kerioextras-devel is a repository in HAM23:06
kerioapplication manager23:06
kerioas in, the stock Application Manager23:06
ApicSo is modrana listed there or do I need to google?23:07
WizardNumberNextfreemangordon: I do know enough about 802.11 - I control server-side of it and I ping N900 every 0.2s23:07
kerioit's in extras-devel, yes23:07
kerioit requires a data connection ofc23:07
keriobut there's a way to predownload map tiles and routing data23:08
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: your test is flawed, if you want results for CPU (and CPU only) you should perform it when device is in offline, with screen off23:08
Apickerio: ofc?23:09
kerioof course23:09
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: otherwise you measure the current drown from radios and whatnot23:09
WizardNumberNextmy test is running for 20 minutes - that is to get something like average results23:09
freemangordondoes not matter23:09
WizardNumberNextI actually read bq27200 twice - on start and on end23:09
freemangordonas you don;t know what happens with your MNO cells aound23:10
WizardNumberNextand it is for real case scenario, not perfected one23:10
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WizardNumberNextoh, 3 in UK have quite good cells (at least around London23:10
WizardNumberNextand I do not even touch mobile, so cells aren't moving23:11
freemangordonnot to say that you have NFC what your neighbour's wifi AP is doing23:11
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: as you wish :)23:11
infobothmm... nfc is No Fucking Clue, or near field communications23:11
WizardNumberNextI am going to run perfected test, but it is not for today23:12
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WizardNumberNextI really do not care about neighbours' APs as I my AP is rawly 30cm away from mobile and its signal is such strong that for 500m I do not even see that I am getting away from it23:13
spoofyHi :) I upload the new nmap > please test it!23:13
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WizardNumberNextI am actually stronger on every channel, then any AP around23:14
WizardNumberNextI sit right in the middle of spectrum23:14
WizardNumberNextif somebody around wants some channel without my noise then s/he have to go to channel 1423:15
keriowell, not really23:15
kerio1, 6 and 11 are supposed to not touch each other23:15
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DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: that's a pretty nasty config for WLAN, since probably your neighbours are doing same, and in the end everybody is losing on this loss/loss situations since you can't crank up the TX power of e.g. N900 to reach 500m distance23:17
WizardNumberNextkerio actually channel 1 reaches channel 623:17
WizardNumberNextnext free is 723:18
DocScrutinizer05then you got either crappy TX or crapy filter on RX23:18
WizardNumberNextbut I have 802.11n card, so channel 1 would reach channel 823:18
DocScrutinizer05sidebands should be max 3 channels23:18
kerionope, 1 is actually -1 to 3, 6 is 4 to 8, 11 is 9 to 1323:19
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WizardNumberNextactually they are 20MHz so 6 is creating noise on 2-5 and 7-10, but some small amount of noise is getting even on 1 and 1123:19
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WizardNumberNextand 802.11n is 40MHz23:20
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WizardNumberNextbut this is actually two 20Mhz (eg 1 and 3)23:21
DocScrutinizer05anyway ramping up AP TX lvl doesn't help anything23:21
DocScrutinizer05using a good antenna with a lot of gain might23:21
WizardNumberNextand I do not care about neighbours as their APs are preventing me from using 802.11n and I have to stick to 802.3ab (1gbp ethernet)23:22
WizardNumberNextI have good card and good antenna23:22
DocScrutinizer05and for evaluating power consumption, WLAN is one of your minor problems, unless NOT associated or NOT on a AP with proper powersaving23:23
WizardNumberNextit adds up to 2W23:23
WizardNumberNextI switched off power-safing - it was cutting my ssh sessions23:23
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DocScrutinizer05then your AP is crap23:23
WizardNumberNextno, my AP have power-saving off as well23:24
WizardNumberNextit is on ALPHA card23:24
DocScrutinizer05and it will cause quite severe power consumption on N900 WLAN *RX*23:24
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freemangordonWizardNumberNext: turning power saving on n900 off is a very bad idea23:24
WizardNumberNextsorry ALFA23:24
freemangordonyour battery will be flat in 6-8 hours23:24
DocScrutinizer05I meant your AP powersaving which is crap when it causes N900 to lose ssh sessions23:25
WizardNumberNextI have no power-saving of any kind for AP23:25
kerioyep, which is awful23:25
DocScrutinizer05WLAN RX either goes to sleep 99% of time due to proper AP-controlled powersaving, or it will eat several 100mW23:25
Palijolla, ubuntu and plasma kde want to create one qml api23:25
WizardNumberNextit is swithced off by default on kernel and not switched on in hostapd confing23:25
freemangordonPali: yeah23:25
freemangordonsaw it on TMO, sounds too good to be true :D23:26
xesmy opinion is first of all saty away from channel 1 and 14 because very often the RF module cuts of that channels..23:26
PaliI do not belive to that23:26
Palisomething like *official* nokia support for meggo on n900...23:26
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DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: lemme put it this way, so maybe to make my point: WLAN will consume *most* power when NOT associated to any AP23:27
freemangordonyep. and jolla said they'll "support" sailfish on n900 :D23:27
DocScrutinizer05IOW while searching/scanning23:27
WizardNumberNextso it is good, that I turn it off, while I am not home23:27
DocScrutinizer05IYOW while RX enabled 100% of time23:27
Palisame people said same...23:27
freemangordonPali: said? it is somehow official23:28
DocScrutinizer05proper powersave enabled on AP makes N900 WLAN RX go to sleep 99.x% of the time23:28
Palinokia said that they was doing on official meego support fot n90023:28
Palithere was nokia team for that23:28
WizardNumberNextld turn on powerr-saving on my APs and turn it on on N900 as well?23:28
DocScrutinizer05crappy powersave may still do that, but causes loss of data23:29
Paliand what they done? nothing (-boot-)useable23:29
WizardNumberNextI run some recent kerlnel23:29
WizardNumberNextsometing like 3.5 or 3.623:29
WizardNumberNextand I am going to 3.7.1 soon23:29
DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: WLAN PSM is a protocol, where AP negotiates periods of suspend with clients23:29
WizardNumberNextbut I would need to reboot server, and then I would change power supply, as this one is barely asble to supply my 11 HDDs23:30
WizardNumberNextand that is why it doesn't work with my APs23:30
freemangordonPali: well, lets see. TBH once we have a descent and recent kernel, we will be able to choose who to support :P23:30
WizardNumberNextcause it is switched off in my kernel23:30
keriowhat about an ascent kernel?23:30
Apickerio: modRana rocks, thank You!23:31
freemangordonPali: btw did you see h-d on arch?23:31
PaliI saw screenshot23:31
DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: however, for GSM/UMTS, you got no control over similar powersaving methods, and afaik even inbound pings that are blocked by your TCP-IP stack still make the GSM modem enter TX mode to ack the ping data packet23:31
freemangordonnot sure if it is on the device or in qemu, but still23:31
Palibut I'd rather see debian/ubuntu with h-d23:31
freemangordonPali: you want gtk3?23:32
WizardNumberNextI agree with last statement about GSM/UMTS23:32
PaliI do not need gtk323:32
kerioDocScrutinizer05: usually mobile operators block inbound connections23:32
freemangordonPali: both debian and ubuntu are on gtk323:32
keriopossibly for that reason, too23:32
DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: so while you're on GSM/UMTS you have NFC what's going on with power consumption of modem, no matter what you do to your online settings23:32
Palimaemo gtk has a lot of patches for better touch input widgets23:33
Paliubuntu still has both gtk23:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: some do, some do not23:33
freemangordonPali: do they?23:33
Paliyou can install both gtk on ubuntu23:33
DocScrutinizer05seems in Finland they usually do not23:33
keriothere are operators that give you a real IP?23:33
freemangordongreat. so, what is stopping us?23:33
freemangordon(esides the kernel)23:33
Paliyou can still compiled any application against gtk2 on ubuntu (if you want)23:33
Palitime :D23:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: yep23:33
WizardNumberNextok, then modem is going to be off on next test and I would rerun all test again23:33
freemangordonPali: yeah, I know :(23:33
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kerioofc at 100% cpu 600mhz is going to use more power than 500mhz23:35
DocScrutinizer05kerio: there are 3G-wireless "DSL" routers now, which have ethernet connection and claim to be a complete substitute for your wired internet connection23:36
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you bet carriers need to allow inbound traffic for those23:36
kerioof course they don't23:37
kerioyou can access the google and the youtube and the pr0n23:37
keriothat's the whole internets23:37
DocScrutinizer05no, you can't skype etc for example23:37
DocScrutinizer05if inbound traffic got completely blocked23:38
kerioof course you can skype23:38
kerioskype prides itself in being 100% working even behind NATs23:38
DocScrutinizer05and those internet accounts nowadays come with (SIP-alike) NGN 'wired' landline phone service23:39
kerio(by no inbound i mean that only ESTABLISHED or RELATED stuff can get in)23:39
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* grummund has sip working on the n90023:40
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DocScrutinizer05meh, whatever. Ask our north-western friends, they have real IP and ssh to their N900 via 3G23:40
keriooh, i believe you23:40
kerioit's just not necessarily true everywhere, even for those umts hotspots23:41
grummundproblem was with sipgate not routing so i tried my voipfone account and it works23:41
DocScrutinizer05I got sipgate working on N900 since years23:42
DocScrutinizer05o/ bbl23:43
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yigal\j math23:46
grummundi'm using the usb-powerjack cable with an old nokia wall cube but it's not charging.23:47
WizardNumberNextgrummund do you mean CA-146C?23:48
WizardNumberNextand by wall cube do you mean AC-3X?23:48
WizardNumberNextbad news - it doesn't work for me23:49
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WizardNumberNextwhat is current? voltage?23:50
grummundmeasured with a voltmeter?23:50
WizardNumberNextif you have problem with charging you can use any REAL 5V (absolute max is rawly 8V) charger - hook it up with usb-micro-ab and short-out D+ and D- cables (white and green)23:51
keriogrummund: if D+/- isn't shorted, the n900 is assuming that it's a real usb host23:51
WizardNumberNextor what charger states23:51
keriothat's not responding23:51
kerioso it'll do nothing23:51
WizardNumberNextkerio - I had no charger for 2 weeks and I was charging that way23:52
WizardNumberNextoh, I know what you mean23:52
grummundit says 3.7V out23:52
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WizardNumberNextshould be working, but not entariely sure about it23:53
WizardNumberNextbit low23:53
DocScrutinizer51max USB VBUS is 6V23:53
kerioDocScrutinizer51: shouldn't it be 5V all day erry day?23:53
WizardNumberNextbut you won't ever charge battery that way - charged battery is between 4.1 and 4.223:53
kerioor do the specs have a required tolerance?23:54
WizardNumberNextI have seen isp1707 and bq2415x datasheet and agree with kerio - 6V is absolute max23:54
DocScrutinizer51you need at least 4V5 to charge23:55
WizardNumberNextregulators on a way23:55
DocScrutinizer51kerio: ABS MAX is about tolerance, yes23:55
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WizardNumberNextAC-3X is actually giving out 8-9V and it was charging on it23:56
WizardNumberNextand AC-8X is giving 1v less23:56
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WizardNumberNextsame - charging23:56
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DocScrutinizer51doesn't matter, it mage kill your device23:57
WizardNumberNextw/ and w/o CA-146C23:57
grummundit starts charging then craps out after a few seconds so i guess the n900 is just too much load23:57
WizardNumberNext3.7v is not enough even for plain battery23:57
WizardNumberNextwhere did you get such charger?23:58
DocScrutinizer51ca-146 worked for me down to ~4V23:58
WizardNumberNextthat is supprising, because afaik ca-146c contains some regulator as well23:58
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DocScrutinizer51it contains a switched regulator23:59
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DocScrutinizer51which seems to do step-up23:59
WizardNumberNextas most regulators of out time23:59
grummundaha. works with a ACP-12X wall cube :)23:59

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