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| StyXman | kerio: yes, marble just uses the routing, and it uses tiles which can work both offline :) | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| StyXman | 22:44 < cehteh> well i look into generating my own maps | 01:01 |
| StyXman | cehteh: vector or tiles? | 01:01 |
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| StyXman | I'm playing with tiles | 01:02 |
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| cehteh | StyXman: vector of course .. much better rendering and less diskspace | 01:16 |
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| M4rtinK | cehteh: and you can also render different styles from the same dataset :) | 01:19 |
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| M4rtinK | StyXman: this is a format for bulk tile storage supported by modRana: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/SQLiteStorageDescriptionEN | 01:21 |
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| cehteh | well the monav vector renderer is very minimalistic | 01:21 |
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| M4rtinK | storing tiles in a sigle file/db results in huge space saving or else each tile image would occupy at least 64 kB on the FAT32 FS in MyDocs | 01:22 |
| cehteh | M4rtinK: have you investigated the cloudgps rendering .. tiles so far, but it uses opengles if someone is eager it should be doable to render vector maps there .. in a very smooth way | 01:23 |
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| M4rtinK | cehteh: it's using SDL & OpenGL ES | 01:26 |
| M4rtinK | other than that it's tile based like modRana | 01:26 |
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| cehteh | yes | 01:27 |
| cehteh | but a vector renderer in opengles should be 'relative' simple, schouldnt it? | 01:27 |
| M4rtinK | (it also uses the same maps folder as modRana, so you can share map tiles with it if you don't use sqlite for tile storage) | 01:27 |
| M4rtinK | no idea | 01:27 |
| M4rtinK | I've never actually worked with OpenGL | 01:28 |
| cehteh | on the other hand .. i am wondering if one could render tiles on the device into some cache (sqlite) which expire when not used | 01:28 |
| cehteh | but tiles never look pretty when rotated | 01:28 |
| M4rtinK | a good realtime renderer handles even rotation | 01:29 |
| M4rtinK | so that you don't get upside down names, etc. | 01:29 |
| cehteh | yes but you cant cache that very well :) | 01:29 |
| cehteh | or you need some text overlay | 01:30 |
| M4rtinK | but even a simple tile renderer would be a huge improvement IMO | 01:30 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 01:30 |
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| M4rtinK | but Navit & Nokia maps do that IIRC | 01:30 |
| cehteh | rotating only every 22,5°, not fractions could help a bit .. but prolly not worth the efforts | 01:31 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, that would be another possibility | 01:31 |
| M4rtinK | a cached background | 01:31 |
| M4rtinK | and a dynamic overlay | 01:31 |
| M4rtinK | nope, you wan't fluent rotation, so that it can follow the direction of your travel | 01:31 |
| cehteh | cache background at fixed angles .. and then only a quarter of them .. rotating by 180 and 90° is easy to do without loss | 01:32 |
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| cehteh | and then either render overlay text dynamically or create overlay tiles with texts which are more agressively expired | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, rander from next better resultion via downsampling, looks pretty at any degree of rotation | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | render even | 01:33 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: talking about rotation, not downsampling | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 01:33 |
| cehteh | and different zoom levels have different levels of detail | 01:33 |
| cehteh | you cant just downsample/upsample .. | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* | 01:34 |
| cehteh | (for preview yes) | 01:34 |
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| M4rtinK | well you need to have different LoD | 01:34 |
| cehteh | cartography is also some kind of art, not just dumb rendering | 01:34 |
| M4rtinK | or else it would die a horrible death if you ever zoom out over a big city | 01:35 |
| cehteh | not only that | 01:35 |
| cehteh | real paper maps even move villages slightly aside to make room for a motorway for example, that wont work well on gps accurate computer maps | 01:36 |
| cehteh | but just get the idea | 01:36 |
| M4rtinK | btw, once you have the vector data, you can also use it for introspection, not just rendering | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for the noise then | 01:37 |
| M4rtinK | like checking if you are inside a residential area & issuing a speed warning | 01:37 |
| cehteh | if you look at germany on a lower zoom level then the 'autobahn' rendered are serveral kilometers wide for example .. but still they pass along or through villages | 01:37 |
| cehteh | M4rtinK: yes | 01:38 |
| M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: I think you are right, as IMHO properly implemented rotation looks quote ok | 01:38 |
| M4rtinK | *quite | 01:38 |
| M4rtinK | cehteh: what vector drawing capabilities does OpenGL(ES) have ? | 01:39 |
| cehteh | dunno | 01:39 |
| M4rtinK | eq, lines, rectangles, curves, text ? | 01:39 |
| M4rtinK | well, I always though OpenGL is mostly about mapping textures to 3D objects | 01:40 |
| cehteh | but isnt opengl all about that? | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess poligons | 01:40 |
| tadzik | erm, I remember talking here to someone who claimed that Windows Phone doesn't deserve to be called a smartphone. After some experiences, I have to agree | 01:40 |
| cehteh | this 3d objects are polygons .. or triangles at least | 01:41 |
| cehteh | you dont need to map them you can color them in one color | 01:41 |
| cehteh | and you can stay in 2D of course .. only rotate for a 3D view | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: lol | 01:41 |
| cehteh | while relative accurate height data for the entire world is freely available iirc | 01:42 |
| tadzik | the point was that the platform is so closed that it's not even funny | 01:42 |
| cehteh | haha | 01:42 |
| M4rtinK | yep, SRTM & some other dataset too | 01:42 |
| cehteh | i will never ever touch that | 01:42 |
| tadzik | I just tried to create a Windows 8 application. I can compile it alright, but if I want to run it (yes, on my local machine) I have to get a developer license | 01:42 |
| tadzik | and no, an email address is not sufficient. Give us your phone number, bitch | 01:42 |
| cehteh | i have some hopes for jolla | 01:42 |
| cehteh | that looks nice | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then please support it | 01:43 |
| cehteh | gimme a note2 (or similar hardware) and sailfish please | 01:43 |
| tadzik | I suppose that the paperclip calls you home if you dereference a null ref somewhere | 01:44 |
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| * tadzik sighs and stops whining | 01:44 | |
| cehteh | i got my wife a note 2 w/ android .. nice hardware but android does not convince me (yes nice features, but also a lot i miss, and too much nonfree ads andcrap) | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | checked that samsung tablet with sylus last weekend, was quite nice, for a c-ts | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stylus even | 01:44 |
| cehteh | yep | 01:44 |
| cehteh | and imo just the right sizel .. i like it :) | 01:45 |
| cehteh | but i need a useable OS | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep!! :-D | 01:45 |
| cehteh | and with quadcore 1.6ghz and 2GB ram you can do serious things | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I almost bought one | 01:45 |
| cehteh | i very much like the OLED display | 01:45 |
| cehteh | most awesome smartphone display i've seen so far | 01:46 |
| cehteh | we should pedition that hardware and sonftware makers should be split and no company can produce both :P | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only thing that stopped me been my holy oath to never ever buy anything sponatneously again, without prior recherche in internet | 01:47 |
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| M4rtinK | I'm seeing a lot of devices with wacom digitizers lately | 01:47 |
| cehteh | yes dont do .. unless you find some usable OS .. as maemo user andoid will piss you in some way | 01:48 |
| M4rtinK | did their patents finally expire or did they just wen't less insane concerning licencing ? | 01:48 |
| cehteh | its mighty and countless more features .. but nagware, viruses, strange multitasking .. | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cehteh: you're aware this would directly and inevitably lead to closed software? | 01:49 |
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| M4rtinK | an affordable decently sized LCD drawing tablet would be be nice :) | 01:49 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: not if harware is sold bare and one can pick on your own | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, hardware *is* sold bare, you only need to wipe it | 01:50 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer05: there is a GCC compiler and binutils thing in the android store and i installed it on my wifes phone just to check it out | 01:50 |
| cehteh | hey .. and it comes with GUI showing you ads ... | 01:50 |
| cehteh | really .. wtf ... | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my point is that hw manufs need to provide board support packages which is already software | 01:50 |
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| cehteh | wrong button | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | bare hardware is basically useless | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even for highly qualified system sw devels | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since it's the EE crew to provide the basic specs to develop drivers in *sw* | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually they even provide such drivers | 01:53 |
| cehteh | well if someone wants to sell his bare hardware he needs to provide the docs/info about how to implement drivers for it .. or even (the better) agree on open standards and open drivers/interfaces | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a sw dude's view of the world | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chip manufs don't give a sh*t about it | 01:54 |
| cehteh | well my pedition demand was rather comical .. i know that has no chance | 01:54 |
| cehteh | well only because the market is as it is | 01:55 |
| cehteh | even chip manucaturers want to sell their crap | 01:55 |
| cehteh | and if they only can do so if they work openly enouhg they would | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | because the world is as it is, there'll always be some chip baker that comes up with a new awesome hw interface for whiich no standard is available | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's called technical progress | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ince there been uart, then came i2c, then ULPI, then HSI | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once* | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same for LCD interface or any other stuff | 01:57 |
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| cehteh | would be nice if you could connect the laptop screen from my old laptop to my rpi ... woudlnt it? .. grr | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and nobody knows what awesome new acme hf interfaces we'll have to deal with tomorrow | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | inter-chip optical fibre is just around the corner | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with your concept we still would use ISA-cards in our PCs | 02:00 |
| M4rtinK | I think it illustrates how important open source is | 02:01 |
| cehteh | not sure, but i cant proof the opposite :P | 02:01 |
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| M4rtinK | if you have the source for the drivers, you can better adapt to the interfaces changing | 02:01 |
| M4rtinK | both hw and sw ones | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK: open source starts with manufs documenting their hw, yes | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then there are cases where significan parts of the manuf's IP are in a closed source driver running on AP | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see WLAN drivers | 02:03 |
| M4rtinK | or the RPi GPU | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | commonly known as softMAC | 02:03 |
| M4rtinK | or the GTA02 modem | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GTA02 modem has absolutely zero AP based drivers | 02:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it has a UART interface basically | 02:04 |
| M4rtinK | I thought its an independent system with its own arm processor | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that talks AT | 02:04 |
| M4rtinK | communicating with the rest with AT commands | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, like any hardMAC WLAN chip | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing needed in application processor land to run it | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty nice for FOSS | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | expensive for manufacturers | 02:06 |
| M4rtinK | as long there are no bugs in it :) | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's no new story, your HDD do this since uhm 30 years or so | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never heard of anybody demanding you should be able to control the head positioner motor and spindle drive in HDD from AP | 02:08 |
| M4rtinK | I think that the RPi GPU that basically speaks Open GL is a bit innovative in this regard :) | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even RMS asks for HDD firmware to be opensource, afaik | 02:12 |
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| M4rtinK | yeah, you have to draw the line somewhere | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for FOSS the line is clearly where AP starts to excute code | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can handle data of whatever kind you like, even if it's a firmware to upload to your WLAN or BT chip, it never gets *executed* by AP | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as my FOSS-OS CPU excutes a byte of instruction from a closed source, I'm starting to feel unhappy | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that's the moment when I lose control | 02:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you may go sophistic and distinguis in what RING this instruction gets executed, if it's sandboxed or has full RING-0 DOM-0 control | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might argue a tained DOM-U instance e.g running windows in a VM doesn't instantly taint your DOM-0 host that runs the VM | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you also could argue that a device driver running under user permissions doesn't taint the whole system since it has no root access | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a fun topic after the 3rd beer at night, in your fav hacker pub | 02:25 |
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| grummund | heh. my n900 arrived :) | 02:44 |
| grummund | typin on it now | 02:44 |
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| M4rtinK | grummund: congratulations ! :) | 02:48 |
| grummund | cant believe it rooted so quickly and installed ssh client so i can get to my server | 02:53 |
| grummund | so much to explore and so little batt remaining | 02:54 |
| grummund | see yas later o/ | 02:55 |
| M4rtinK | see ya :) | 02:57 |
| RiD | fix microusb before it f+cks up | 02:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 02:59 |
| RiD | trust me i was a careful user....ended up breaking it after 2,5 years | 02:59 |
| RiD | also a jackass threw cookies to my phone | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah shit happens, no matter how careful you act | 02:59 |
| RiD | those smuggled cookies...like fine salt. they're on the keyboard now | 02:59 |
| RiD | i see the friggin dots shining | 03:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wipe it with a damp cloth | 03:02 |
| RiD | ehh, the dots are under the keys | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh | 03:03 |
| RiD | i removed most of it though | 03:03 |
| RiD | it was hella horrific back then | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | disassemble it | 03:03 |
| RiD | not going to do that soon either | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you just need to unscrew the two TX6 | 03:04 |
| RiD | its been disassembled quite a few times that the screws...are getting screwed | 03:04 |
| RiD | on the plastic back | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then lift off the frame, then the keymat | 03:04 |
| RiD | so i plan on disassembling it only one more time, fixing usb, speaker, earphone and cleaning it | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather get new screws ;-) | 03:05 |
| RiD | i think its the plastic that is ruined lol | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which plastic? | 03:05 |
| robbiethe1st | China sells replacement cases cheaply on Ebay | 03:06 |
| robbiethe1st | Good old knock-offs | 03:06 |
| RiD | doc, remove back cover. these screws that appear. | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: you're any kind of sysop, by any means? | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: those are all steel screws | 03:07 |
| RiD | but the stuff around them isn't | 03:07 |
| robbiethe1st | Nope | 03:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, the stuff around them, that would be the case body. Can't see how it suffers from unscrewing the screws | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the stuff they sit in also is plastic for the kbd frame TX6, steel for the 4 phillips screws that hold the slider mechanism | 03:10 |
| RiD | ahhh the slider mechanism | 03:10 |
| RiD | the ribbon cable was almost cut off | 03:10 |
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| RiD | ...sand... | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eeeek | 03:10 |
| RiD | i exxagerated. it had little sand things around it but the cable was tough | 03:11 |
| RiD | not good to see anyways | 03:12 |
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| jonwil | I think I may have just seen the coolest device ever to run the Linux kernel... | 03:46 |
| RiD | washing machine? | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wrist watch | 03:48 |
| jonwil | no, watches aren't cool :P | 03:48 |
| RiD | ^agree | 03:48 |
| jonwil | ARM9 300MHz, 16MB of Flash, 64MB of RAM, MicroSD slot, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, possibly WiFi depending on which news story is accurate. | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google glass then? | 03:48 |
| jonwil | Oh and this is a LEGO bring | 03:48 |
| jonwil | brick | 03:48 |
| jonwil | So its a LEGO brick with all that inside | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohlol | 03:48 |
| RiD | oh wait | 03:49 |
| RiD | lego technic or w/e? | 03:49 |
| jonwil | Mindstorms yes | 03:49 |
| jonwil | its the new one | 03:49 |
| jonwil | and its running Linux | 03:49 |
| RiD | the old one was mindblowing enough | 03:49 |
| RiD | soon we'll have a lego smartphone | 03:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 once had that "tank" in that alu suitcase | 03:50 | |
| jonwil | well LEGO says this new brick can be controlled via Android or iOS | 03:50 |
| RiD | too bad the only "motorized" legos i have is an rc car | 03:50 |
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| jonwil | Although I am sure if someone with a N900 buys one, there is no reason you couldn't make the 2 talk to each other :P | 03:51 |
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| jonwil | Not that I have the cash to buy one... | 03:51 |
| RiD | how much? | 03:52 |
| jonwil | $350 | 03:52 |
| RiD | i'll pretend i did not read that | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah LEGO Cybermaster | 03:52 |
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| jonwil | that gets you the programmable brick, software, sensors, motors and a whole bunch of parts | 03:52 |
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| RiD | with that money i could buy a house | 03:53 |
| RiD | well it wont take long until they do all sorts of crazy stuff with them | 03:53 |
| jonwil | I dont even want to THINK about how much the thing will cost in Australia (where prices are usually a fair bit higher than the US) | 03:54 |
| RiD | send it through fax | 03:54 |
| RiD | and you ended up thinking how much the thing will cost when you said you didnt even want to think. Now have a good night/day, I'm going | 03:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it gives "I bricked it" a whole new meaning ;-P | 03:58 |
| Skry | :) | 03:59 |
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| jonwil | well that was a waste of time. | 04:41 |
| jonwil | Looks like all the ofono work to support the N900 modem was done with the express goal of making it as hard as possible to understand the actual low-level ISI packets and interface involved :( | 04:42 |
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| unclouded | is there no documentation at all for ISI? | 05:19 |
| jonwil | no documentation anywhere for the stuff I am interested in | 05:22 |
| jonwil | no | 05:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | jonwil: I've said in the past that the whole infrastructure was designed to be as confusing and hard to piecemeal replace as possible. :'( | 05:31 |
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| jonwil | I think when it came to MeeGo-on-N900 they said "We want to do the bare minimum required to support telephony in MeeGo-on-N900 and we want to give away as little of the modem secrets as we can" | 05:33 |
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| unclouded | who benefits from ISI being kept secret still? did Nokia specify it or the modem from elsewhere? | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ISI is all but secret, it's just a PITA to study the docs formerly to be found on Wirelss Modem API | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.wirelessmodemapi.com/ | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | another of those orphaned servers Nokia pays for but forgot about them and now they're bitrotting and in a zombie state | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google for "Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip" | 05:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, googling seems doesn't help much, you might want to try your luck in maemo.cloud-7.de/hidden/ | 05:48 |
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| NitaChan | Does anyone in here still use a Nokia N900? I'm wondering if Easy Debian can use the DSP, camera and microphone or not. | 06:00 |
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| unclouded | thanks for the link DocScrutinizer | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 06:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | don't post the full URL anywhere, when spiders come crawling I'll remove that file | 06:13 |
| unclouded | yes, I realised since you didn't post the full link :) | 06:13 |
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| jonwil | I actually HAVE "Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip" and it doesn't contain the information I need (the information on the SIM access) | 06:15 |
| jonwil | in fact, heck, I have copies of several versions of those docs and none contain the info I seek :( | 06:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I think it's not comprehensive/complete | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even ISI is incomplete | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (the implementation inside BB5) | 06:17 |
| jonwil | All that is public about the SIM access is a file pn_sim_isi.h from the cellmo-headers package (with NO documentation anywhere) plus the few bits of ofono code that deal with the SIM access | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder WTF ofono guys got the details from | 06:19 |
| jonwil | well the checkins to ofono that related to the bit I care about are from @nokia people | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #@!!%&ð怀 | 06:20 |
| jonwil | so the Nokia guys had access to the modem specs and stuff internally (including presumably the source to the Fremantle Cellular Services Daemon) and got to use that info and code to produce the ofono N900 modem support | 06:20 |
| jonwil | presumably with the goal being to reveal as little info as possible | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...as usual | 06:21 |
| jonwil | btw the only reference to pn_sim_isi.h in Google is in a file listing of a Nokia QT SDK that contains that file | 06:21 |
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| jonwil | so unless some info appears out of the woodwork somewhere or someone at Nokia is willing to share, the chances that I will ever truly understand connui_cell_sim_get_service_provider/connui_cell_sim_is_network_in_service_provider_info or the underlying dbus and ISI calls that those functions end up calling to is pretty much zilch | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lost info | 06:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | those who could share are not at Nokia anymore | 06:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty certainly | 06:27 |
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| jonwil | yeah the work was done by "Jukka Saunamäki" whoever they are | 06:36 |
| jonwil | and that person hasn't been active on gitorious since last january | 06:37 |
| jonwil | ok, now I found a linkedin page that confirms they arent at Nokia anymore | 06:37 |
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| jonwil | so yeah unless hell freezes over and someone decides to release source for cellular services daemon (which will never happen) we will never really understand the workings of the modem interface | 06:39 |
| jonwil | and will never be able to replace the modem in cssu with ofono | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah, the latter is a sure bet | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter what happens | 06:41 |
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| jonwil | Quite a few people have suggested " | 06:41 |
| jonwil | suggested "lets replace CSD with ofono for Fremantle" | 06:41 |
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| jonwil | Those people who have suggested that clearly know nothing about ofono | 06:41 |
| jonwil | or about Fremantle | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was about to type exactly this | 06:42 |
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| jonwil | I suspect that the internet connectivity daemon is the most likely piece of closed-source system level software to be replaced by CSSU | 06:49 |
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| jonwil | and yes I still have plans to continue my reverse engineering work on icd :) | 06:51 |
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| jonwil | unless there are other system components that are more in need of replacement than ICD in which case I will consider investigating those... :P | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stskeeps was sad that ICD never gone OSS, since he considered it way better than all the OSS alternatives. So you'd probably do something really good and heroic when you RE ICD | 06:57 |
| jonwil | well I wouldn't be cloning ICD, just identifying what interfaces matter when it comes to replacing it | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in the end your RE work could go into nemo and sailfish | 06:57 |
| jonwil | so you are saying that working on ICD would be more use than working on other things? | 07:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quite probably | 07:02 |
| jonwil | ok | 07:05 |
| jonwil | well I will continue reverse engineering the dbus, gconf and other interfaces exposed by ICD and its related plugins then | 07:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a proper howto on the configuration of that annoying blow was already somewhing I'd appreciate | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | blob | 07:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what's on MWKN | 07:10 | |
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| jonwil | If hell froze over and I could have the source code to any 10 closed N900 packages it would be connui-home-cellular, libconnui, libconnui-cellular, libgles2-sgx-img, libicd-network-wlan, libisi1, mce, opengles-sgx-img-common, osso-wlan-security and icd2 | 07:38 |
| internetishard | how do you make it auto switch back to a real connection after switching to the MMS apn? | 07:39 |
| internetishard | jonwil: I think a petition to open source it could be successful | 07:40 |
| internetishard | We could put some stuff about 'good PR' in there. | 07:41 |
| internetishard | I'll write it if you'd like | 07:41 |
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| jonwil | which thing? | 07:42 |
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| * jonwil suspects internetishard doesn't understand the realities of the situation :P | 07:43 | |
| internetishard | Indeed. And my lack of understanding could have a good outcome :) | 07:44 |
| internetishard | People who accomplish great things have to be ignorant enough to not realize they're not supposed to :P | 07:44 |
| jonwil | I seriously doubt Nokia will open source anything further no matter what the community does or petitions | 07:45 |
| jonwil | Especially now that they are so in bed with Micro$osft :P | 07:45 |
| jonwil | Micro$oft :P | 07:45 |
| internetishard | Yeah, but how would they re-use any of that in their M$ efforts? | 07:46 |
| internetishard | Also, they need to lay people off probably | 07:46 |
| jonwil | point is that open sourcing stuff costs money for no benefit to Nokia | 07:47 |
| jonwil | hence why they wont do it | 07:47 |
| jonwil | but if you want to send Nokia a useless petition or request feel free to do it... | 07:47 |
| thedead1440 | internetishard, they rather destroy stuff than open sourcing it. see Meltemi | 07:47 |
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| jonwil | if we want to replace ICD we have to do it ourselves :) | 08:08 |
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| Hurrian | not to mention, they were probably shredding stuff since Elopocalypse | 08:14 |
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| Theorbo | Anyone interested in the Ubuntu Phone? They are planning to release in Feb for Galaxy Nexus owners. | 08:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | to a degree | 08:43 |
| SpeedEvil | more interested in some ways in jollamobile | 08:43 |
| Snafu777 | yep!! | 08:44 |
| Snafu777 | jollamobile | 08:44 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/08/elop_anything_goes/ | 13:00 |
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| Aoyagi_joytop | hnngh | 13:01 |
| thedead1440 | ruskie: it was lost in translation | 13:01 |
| thedead1440 | nokia issued an update: | 13:01 |
| thedead1440 | “Do you rule out 100% launching a smartphone based on Android in 2013? | 13:01 |
| thedead1440 | Elop: So, the way I think about it is, in the current war on ecosystems, we are fighting with Windows Phone. That’s what we’re doing. Now, what we’re always doing is asking, how does that evolve? What’s next? What role does HTML5 play? What role does Android or other things play in the future? We’re looking further into the future, but it terms of what we’re bringing to... | 13:01 |
| thedead1440 | ...market, and what... | 13:01 |
| thedead1440 | ...we’re immediately focused on, we’re focused on Windows Phone.” | 13:01 |
| ruskie | thedead1440, that still sounds the same frankly | 13:03 |
| ruskie | nothing really different | 13:03 |
| ruskie | "we're with ms for now bet we're not excluding anything in the future" | 13:04 |
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| thedead1440 | ruskie: actually he said the same thing around a year ago | 13:09 |
| thedead1440 | nobody made a fuss of it then | 13:09 |
| thedead1440 | as CEO he *cannot* say I'm excluding anything | 13:09 |
| thedead1440 | so he just says we are always open to what's in the market-place | 13:09 |
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| thedead1440 | some more dis-heartening news for Nokia: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/telecom/NokiaIndiafactory-raided-over-Rs-3K-cr-tax-evasion/articleshow/17938056.cms around $0.5billion in tax evasion | 13:35 |
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| M4rtinK | that's called "going down with style" :) | 14:08 |
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| Lava_Croft | As easy as the fans applaud succes, just as easy do they hate when things dont go as well | 16:07 |
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| Aoyagi | Since northing has been happening for more than an hour and since I've noticed a certain... distaste for Android here, let me ask you this: Are there parts of it that are, in fact, hidden? As in that it's not as open as Google might want to claim? | 18:20 |
| Aoyagi | Because I remember reading about that on Register, but I can't find it... | 18:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | hidden - no | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | well. | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | you can build android from source. | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | however, you don't get the Google apps | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | those are binary only | 18:31 |
| Aoyagi | Yeah, so I hear. | 18:32 |
| Aoyagi | Well, that's better than I thought. | 18:32 |
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| Aoyagi | Thank you for clarifying that to me :) | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | there aremseperate issues around hardware support | 18:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | binary blobs are regrettably common | 18:32 |
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| trx | hm, i have connected a usb keyboard to my n900 | 20:35 |
| trx | i have noticed that keys such as Home, End, etc dont work | 20:35 |
| trx | is there a solution for that somewhere? | 20:35 |
| MrPingu | Close the N900 keyboard ;) | 20:36 |
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| MrPingu | And select the right keyboard from the ext-kdb menu in settings, if installed ;) | 20:37 |
| trx | ill try that thanks | 20:38 |
| MrPingu | How's migration going, btw? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | always a delight to hear how natural users use h-e-n | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: well, it's hard work for council to decide on the right way to go. For now most things are already migrated to a set of (possibly interim) vservers | 20:40 |
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| MrPingu | I see :) | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see http://mwkn.net/2013/01/community.html | 20:41 |
| * MrPingu is reading mwkn right away | 20:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first headline "maemo.org migration issues" | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I provided that etc/hosts file if you want to use the currently alive servers | 20:43 |
| kerio | MrPingu: i don't think you really need to close the n900 keyboard | 20:44 |
| trx | MrPingu nice, both mouse and keyboard are working great | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're about to eventually migrate tmo | 20:44 |
| trx | thanks for the tip | 20:44 |
| kerio | at least, not with a bluetooth keyboard | 20:44 |
| kerio | trx: extkbd and extmou are kinda great | 20:44 |
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| trx | yeah | 20:44 |
| kerio | extkbd will overwrite your xkb data though | 20:45 |
| kerio | so you could lose your own personalizations | 20:45 |
| MrPingu | kerio: I had to, to get it working right ;) | 20:45 |
| MrPingu | Atleast when using it in conjuction with dosbox and H-E-N | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BTkbd might be quite different to USB-kbd | 20:46 |
| MrPingu | Don't have BTkdb lying around, sadly | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I got a MX5000 logitech BT kbd and BT mouse here, but I don't think it's particularly easy to make them work with *any* ordinary BT under linux | 20:49 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: if they're HID, then it should automagically Just Work™ | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if they are ordinary HId at all, then crippled | 20:50 |
| kerio | huh? | 20:50 |
| MrPingu | About that, I am planning to buy Raspberry together with BT kbd + mouse + BT-adapter | 20:50 |
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| MrPingu | is there something I need to watch out for specific chipsets? | 20:51 |
| MrPingu | To get BT working nicely? | 20:51 |
| MrPingu | Now we are talking about keyboards | 20:51 |
| MrPingu | qt does listen to xkb, partially | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BT keyboards are kinda tricky always | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plug and pray | 20:52 |
| MrPingu | lol | 20:53 |
| MrPingu | It listens to my dead-characters I mapped on fourth level | 20:53 |
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| kerio | plug? | 20:53 |
| kerio | you're doing bluetooth *wrong* | 20:53 |
| MrPingu | ignores the rest though :( | 20:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 glares at his BT USB dobgle and frowns | 20:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dongle* | 20:54 |
| * merlin1991 glares at his integrated bt chip and cries for proper drivers | 20:55 | |
| MrPingu | You said keyboard, but I already guessed you meant dongle | 20:55 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 glares at Logitech USB "BT" dongle and frowns even more | 20:55 | |
| MrPingu | Logitech has it own special magic | 20:55 |
| merlin1991 | also I'd like a proper keyboard with cherry mx red switches that is not in the 150€ and up pricerange | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reed, but yeah | 20:56 |
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| merlin1991 | reed? | 20:59 |
| kerio | merlin1991: the singer from The Velvet Underground | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | The Nascom-II kbd I had in early 80s was awesome. It used small ferrite cores (like you maybe know them from ancient core memory) with two wire frames as half winding of a coil. each key had a magnet that moved away from its core when key got pressed, so removing magnetic saturation from the ferrite core/ring. The unsaturated ring transferred a sharp current spike in col wire frames to the row wireframe where it got detected by an amp | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and thus sensed the row and col for a pressed key | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ooh I thought you meant reed-switches | 21:01 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how would it detect multiple keys? | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like any other kbd | 21:02 |
| kerio | badly? | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optimal | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the operation priciple has implicit "n-key rollover" | 21:03 |
| merlin1991 | I need 5 key rollover at max :D | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in that it doesn't feed back from row_a via col to row_b | 21:03 |
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| ShadowJK | They make awesome keyboard these days | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | with proper resistance and CLICK action | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | they come with earplugs for when you get tired of the clackity-clack | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (kbd) tried to spot the schematics, but couldn't find in which of the documents it hides, so if you're interested go and have a look at http://www.nascomhomepage.com/ | 21:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | here's the kbd from outside: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=815&st=1 | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (been fun to assemble that PCB shown there next to kbd :-D) | 21:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, I just read it been late 70s, not early 80s | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | luckily mine came without MS Basic ROM, so I had to use assembler (in hex) to do any programming. That way I learnt a bit about computers | 21:21 |
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| kerio | hey, QBASIC was awesome | 21:24 |
| Lava_Croft | gwbasic was the shit when i was younger | 21:25 |
| Lava_Croft | computer class was so awesome in the early 90s, zero security | 21:25 |
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| merlin1991 | well getting things done was #1 prority, nothing about web security and friends | 21:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.nascomhomepage.com/pdf/NASCOM1.PDF p.5-6 is that kbd | 21:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez back and well! :-) \o/ | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "still a bit dizzy" | 22:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | hello guys, do you have any idea how to prevent phone application on N900 to mess with cpufreq settings? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want to | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | phone application sets CPU freq to some value that guarantees proper audio for your calls | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and only during calls | 22:28 |
| WizardNumberNext | but it sets it to 125 to whatever was there | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not, 125 is forbidden freq | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for good reason, it's instable | 22:29 |
| MrPingu | WizardNumberNext: it sets minimum to 125, however 125 is avoided and still 250 will be minimum | 22:29 |
| WizardNumberNext | I do not want anything lower then 500, as I am running on conservative instead of ondemand and down_threshold is 70, so any frequency below 500 is pointless, as 70% of 500 is higher load on 250MHz then 95% (which up threshold) | 22:30 |
| WizardNumberNext | and there is no avoid frequencies on conservative | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 22:31 |
| WizardNumberNext | never liked ondemand as it doesn't go up step by step - it is going directly to top sped | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's called speed-to-idle and a sane policy | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually | 22:32 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: so... put 500 as the minimum | 22:32 |
| WizardNumberNext | you mean the parameter for phone aplication? | 22:32 |
| kerio | *race-to-idle | 22:32 |
| WizardNumberNext | I do put minimum 500 or 600 | 22:32 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: then your minimum will be 500 | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or what kerio said ^^^ | 22:33 |
| WizardNumberNext | phone app is changing it and leaving it on 125 | 22:33 |
| kerio | ...no it's not | 22:33 |
| kerio | it tries to | 22:33 |
| kerio | but 125 isn't allowed | 22:33 |
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| kerio | make it so that 250 isn't allowed either, if you want | 22:33 |
| WizardNumberNext | you cannot prevent any frequency on conservative! | 22:34 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am not using ondemand - I hate this crap! | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? ask us to make pigs fly? | 22:35 |
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| MrPingu | I prefer flying penguins... | 22:35 |
| WizardNumberNext | Just want to know, if you know how to prevent phone aplicantion to change lower frequency, not an instruction how to setup ondemand governor | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | answer: no we don't since that's what phone app is supposed to do | 22:36 |
| WizardNumberNext | as soon as I would get cross compiler working I am putting 3.8 kernel on it without ondemand governor | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good luck with that | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: yeah, good luck | 22:37 |
| WizardNumberNext | first I would use kexec to boot this kernel | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: wanna link to 4.7.2 for scratchbox? | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it was that easy to put 3.8 on it, PK wasn't 2.6 still | 22:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | see how is it behaving, then I would make pernament decission | 22:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | 3.8 is still rc2 | 22:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | so obviously not many people are interested | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: which SGX driver are you going to use? just out of curiosity. | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: best wishes to ivgalvez | 22:39 |
| WizardNumberNext | I had a good look on it and it does support most of devices, but I still would like to have et8ek for it | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will do | 22:39 |
| MrPingu | https://lesswatts.org/projects/applications-power-management/race-to-idle.php | 22:39 |
| MrPingu | ^^ | 22:39 |
| WizardNumberNext | power-kernel doesn't have any SGX driver as far as I can see | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: look again | 22:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, look yourself in both configuration and kernel sources itself, then start to talk about it - quite a lot of devices have drivers | 22:41 |
| kerio | *something* is bound to have them | 22:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: get your peers classified before getting offensive | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: I don;t know if you are aware, but I am one of KP developers, so I am pretty aware of what is included there ;) | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | that is why I told you to look again, there is SGX (aka display) driver | 22:42 |
| WizardNumberNext | if you are one them, then could you give me device listing please | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | device listing? try lshal | 22:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | and if something isn't in vanilia kernel, then source of those drivers? | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: what? | 22:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | does he come to irc? | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | KP sources are in maemo repos | 22:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | I mean plain patches? | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | on garage | 22:44 |
| freemangordon | garge.maemo.org | 22:44 |
| freemangordon | search for kernel | 22:44 |
| WizardNumberNext | thats something - I would have good look there | 22:44 |
| freemangordon | an KP is 2.6.28 + lots of stuff in debian/patches | 22:44 |
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| freemangordon | so you get clean .patch files if you download tar.gz from maemo repos | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: BTW lshal is not he | 22:45 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, ups | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | it is a tool to executo on your device to get a fair amount of devices | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | *execute | 22:46 |
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| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: BTW here http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/kernel3.5/ you will find a couple of patches which allow vanilla 3.5 to boot soick fremantle | 22:48 |
| freemangordon | *stock | 22:48 |
| freemangordon | wish you luck forward-porting them to 3.8 :) | 22:49 |
| WizardNumberNext | I wasn't aware they already have changed API | 22:49 |
| freemangordon | between 2.6.28 an 3.8? you can bet the did. | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | *they | 22:50 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, where do I get ishal - I seam to not have it in my repos | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | you have it on your n900 | 22:50 |
| WizardNumberNext | between those - yes few times | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | pre-installed, run it in xterm | 22:51 |
| WizardNumberNext | I was thinking between 3.5 and 3.8 | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | Actually I don't know how much is API changed between 3.5 and 3.8 | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | I just wished you luck ;) | 22:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | me neither | 22:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | I do not seam to have Ishal | 22:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | just tried it | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | lshal | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | that is small latin letter L | 22:52 |
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| freemangordon | something like list hardware abstraction layer :D | 22:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | you mean LSHAL? | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | yep , but not in capital letters | 22:53 |
| Pali | here are some other patches for 3.5: https://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/linux-n900/ | 22:53 |
| Pali | untested, but freemangordon patches included | 22:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | Pali, thats usefull | 22:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | Pali, anyway I do nt care, if those are tested or not, because I would run kernel from kexec | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | Pali: aah, you ported BT patches? good boy :) | 22:54 |
| Pali | WizardNumberNext, ask more on #maemo-alternatives | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: kexec does not work in 2.6.28 afaik | 22:54 |
| Pali | there are more peoples trying to boot new kernel | 22:55 |
| kerio | why kexec? :s | 22:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I got it - got listing, looks like listing of know devices (didn't have good look on it yet) | 22:55 |
| kerio | there's uboot | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | Pali: but not with fremantle on top ;) | 22:55 |
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| Pali | WizardNumberNext, kexec not working on n900 correctly | 22:56 |
| Pali | there is problem wih SDHC card reader | 22:56 |
| freemangordon | Pali: afaik I am the only one so far successfuly booted fremantle with 3.5. except if you did that too | 22:56 |
| Pali | and maemo 2.6.28 kernel can kexec only new kernels (cannot kexec maemo 2.6.28 kernel...) | 22:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | Pali, could you precise it? | 22:57 |
| Pali | freemangordon, I did it in qemu | 22:57 |
| freemangordon | hehe, qemu :P | 22:57 |
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| Pali | not yet on real HW... | 22:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | Pali, qemu doesn't count | 22:57 |
| freemangordon | well, so I am the man :D:D:D | 22:57 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: it counts | 22:57 |
| Pali | I created fremantle patches for meego kernel when I played with qemu... | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | was it 2.6.37? | 22:58 |
| Pali | WizardNumberNext, there are kexec problems: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002277.html | 22:58 |
| Pali | freemangordon, yes | 22:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | I had 3.8-rc2 working on kvm on my amd phenom, but I do not consider it working success, as it didn't boot bare metal | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: btw Pali upstreamed a couple of n900 patches in 3.8 ;) | 22:59 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: qemu to emulate a n900 | 22:59 |
| WizardNumberNext | wait qemu emulating N900? That would would quite long time to implement such amount of hardfware, not to mention DSP and such stuff | 23:00 |
| MrPingu | Did one of you try to backport the newer SGX drivers to 2.6.28? | 23:00 |
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| freemangordon | MrPingu: what for? | 23:00 |
| freemangordon | vsync? | 23:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | MrPingu, where to get new SGX drivers? | 23:00 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: meego (nemo) | 23:01 |
| Pali | WizardNumberNext, not everything is emulated, but it working | 23:01 |
| WizardNumberNext | SGX driver is one of hardest to get for me yet | 23:01 |
| Pali | you need maemo MADDE | 23:01 |
| Pali | part of maemo MADDE is qemu n900 image with patches qemu | 23:01 |
| freemangordon | Pali: can one attach a debugger to running qemu? | 23:01 |
| Pali | yes | 23:02 |
| WizardNumberNext | that's actually a lot more, then I would expect | 23:02 |
| freemangordon | good | 23:02 |
| Pali | also to kernel | 23:02 |
| freemangordon | yeah, that's what I was asking | 23:02 |
| MrPingu | From my googling I just did there are two parts of SGX 1: the open source modules and 2: the closed libraries | 23:02 |
| Pali | this is only good way how to debug kernel... | 23:02 |
| freemangordon | well, i'll stick to printk's for now :P | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 23:02 |
| WizardNumberNext | looking on internet it seams n900 is dead as development hardware - looking here is looks like it is very much alive | 23:02 |
| Pali | qemu debugging is needed when printk is not enought... | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: which internet do you look at? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | internet lies | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | Pali: sure, I was joking | 23:03 |
| MrPingu | where to get them, is another story | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 23:03 |
| infobot | well, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: that one lies too ;) | 23:03 |
| Pali | freemangordon, do you know how hard is to force n900 kernel to panic? | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | *(char*) = 0? | 23:04 |
| WizardNumberNext | I already have CSSU - t is nice replacement for dead SSU | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: cat /dev/kmem | 23:04 |
| Pali | I wrote for panic my kernel module :D | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | *(char*)0 = 0? | 23:04 |
| Pali | I called kernel panic() function | 23:04 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I would not try it even on my desktop/server | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | ^^^ should do the job :D | 23:04 |
| Pali | on normal comuper you can crash kernel by echo 'c' to sysrq | 23:05 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: why not, you get oops, so what? | 23:05 |
| Pali | but for unknown reason that not working on n900 | 23:05 |
| Pali | kernel wrote that crashed, but nothing happened | 23:05 |
| Pali | still working :D | 23:05 |
| freemangordon | hehe, isn;t it better that way? :D | 23:05 |
| kerio | Pali: don't you have to enable sysrq? | 23:05 |
| freemangordon | that one too | 23:06 |
| Pali | I enabled it | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: try cat /dev/kmem | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | Pali: aah, I have very good idea - undervol | 23:06 |
| Pali | and echo > sysrq working if is disabled too | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | *undervolt | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | :D | 23:06 |
| Pali | and I wrote that kernel written message to dmesg that crashed :D | 23:06 |
| kerio | freemangordon: don't be a pussy, lock it to 1150 | 23:07 |
| Pali | so sysrq called that method | 23:07 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, undervolt works very well, if you want to crash - I was getting loads of crashes on 38 for 600 | 23:07 |
| freemangordon | kerio: no, it locks then, does not opps ;) | 23:07 |
| kerio | heh | 23:07 |
| WizardNumberNext | now I am on 42 and it is rock-stable | 23:07 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: enable SR and forget about manual undervolting | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | until you visit arctic or sahara | 23:08 |
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| WizardNumberNext | SR doesn't work too good for me on frequencies above 720 | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | hmm, yah, you might have problems in sahara. but the problem with n900 not stable will be tha last in the list :D:D:D | 23:08 |
| kerio | also enable cssu-thumb and forget about overclocking :D | 23:09 |
| WizardNumberNext | been running 900, 950 and 1000 stable | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OC is nonsense anyway | 23:09 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: those are insane frequencies | 23:09 |
| freemangordon | esp 950 and 1000 | 23:09 |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio, CPU won't be faster by itself, because of thumb and still apps have to be compiled with thumb | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but hey, it might make sense when actually locking CPU clock speed to 1000, without any ondemand ever throttling it down X-P | 23:10 |
| MrPingu | CPU isnt the bottleneck, IO is | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 23:10 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, lot of sense :D | 23:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, yes those are insane, so I normaly run up to 805 sometimes 850, but is it pointless, as there won't be any real improvement and battery would go slightly quiecker | 23:11 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: CPU won;t be faster, it just will execute better optimized code much better fit in caches | 23:11 |
| MrPingu | However, in dosbox 900mhz is alot more playable than 600mhz ;) | 23:11 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: aah, maybe it is time to thumb-compile dosbox | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | who was the maintainer? | 23:12 |
| MrPingu | lemme check | 23:12 |
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| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I do realize what thumb actually does - it is nice thing, but still apps have to be comppiled to thumb to get any improvement | 23:12 |
| MrPingu | I believe it was Javier Pedro | 23:12 |
| MrPingu | Yes, confirmed | 23:12 |
| * freemangordon has some cloudy memories that once we argued with him hether thumb-compiled dosbox will be stable | 23:13 | |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: meh, the huge improvement is from gcc4.7-linaro rather than the different ABI | 23:13 |
| freemangordon | kerio: both thumb2 and gcc4.7.2-linaro | 23:13 |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio, and that is why I am trying to compile cross-compiler | 23:13 |
| WizardNumberNext | gcc-4.7.2 | 23:13 |
| MrPingu | freemangordon: did you receive latest bb-p sources for thumb? | 23:13 |
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| MrPingu | For some time my indicator is flashing that bb-p can be updated, however non-thumb | 23:14 |
| kerio | MrPingu: the thumby version matches the non-thumby one for me | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | yes, and put the .debs in the repo a couple of days ago | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: try to refresh | 23:14 |
| MrPingu | ah didn't look for some days, so that might be right :) | 23:15 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%29 | 23:15 |
| WizardNumberNext | I do have 3.7.1 linux kernel compiled by gcc-4.7.2 (march and -mtune flags = barcelona) for my AMD Phenom II X6 1090T based desktop and it is faster, not to mention glibc | 23:15 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: do you use gentoo? | 23:16 |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio, no I never liked getoo! I use GNU/Linux Debian | 23:17 |
| kerio | weird, usually the crazy performance-obsessed types use gentoo | 23:17 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: what? I don't even know what gentoo is :P | 23:18 |
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| * MrPingu is getting some pizza while I waiting for HAM -.- | 23:18 | |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio, but I do not need such performance - I have AMD Phenom II X6 1090T and it is running only 800MHz 99% percent of time, so where's the point for gentoo | 23:18 |
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| * freemangordon is AMD fan too. Phenom II 950 BE 4x3.2GHz | 23:19 | |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio, it is just bt of fine-tune of system | 23:19 |
| MrPingu | What a nice surprise, new thumb release :) | 23:19 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I have 960 in my server | 23:19 |
| freemangordon | unfortunately mine is put in a crappy box | 23:20 |
| freemangordon | nvidia 350 | 23:20 |
| WizardNumberNext | I do care for graphics - it have to run - nothing more, nothing less | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: what? ofc there is :P | 23:21 |
| MrPingu | freemangordon, you always kill my uptime on my n900 :( | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: ok, tell me what uptime you want and I promise I won't issue new -thumb until it has passed :P | 23:22 |
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| WizardNumberNext | MrPingu, my best uptime on n900 is around 20Ks as far and its only, because I have 5 batteries to format | 23:22 |
| MrPingu | Atleast one month, I was on 28 days :P | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: ok, will try. though I planed a new update with microb-engine using those new NEON-optimized libpng and zlib1g ;) | 23:23 |
| freemangordon | but, well, after all, one should listen to the users :D:D:D | 23:23 |
| kerio | freemangordon: you still have to recompile x, btw | 23:23 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it is workign fine, ain;t? | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | *working | 23:24 |
| kerio | but it's sooooooooooo slow! | 23:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I am user as well - release it asap | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | kerio: prove? | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: are you on -thumb? | 23:24 |
| kerio | it's compiled with gcc 4.6! | 23:24 |
| kerio | it's like a whole 0.1 less! | 23:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I would soon | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | kerio: aah, I see | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: well until then you are not ;) | 23:25 |
| MrPingu | :) | 23:25 |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio, gcc-4.7.x is actually generating slightly bigger binaries (at least on amd64) | 23:25 |
| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, I would get it when my battery would die, not long time till then | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: going to post on TMO that there will ne no -thumb until you have 1 month of uptime. ok? :P | 23:26 |
| MrPingu | Alright :P | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | WizardNumberNext: gcc for AMD and gcc for ARM are totally different animals. gcc and gcc-linaro too ;) | 23:27 |
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| WizardNumberNext | freemangordon, that is why I said on amd64 | 23:27 |
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| MrPingu | qbw maintainer/dev posted on his thread | 23:28 |
| freemangordon | hmm, h-h lockups? | 23:28 |
| MrPingu | wasn't there something you wanted to ask about h-h lockups? | 23:28 |
| freemangordon | me? I am not using qbw | 23:28 |
| WizardNumberNext | difference between ARM and AMD64 is huge as well, something like quite few milion transistors | 23:28 |
| MrPingu | Since I switched to qbw from dcew never had any lockups. so... | 23:28 |
| MrPingu | and ofcourse didn't install widgets with external-loaders | 23:29 |
| MrPingu | eg python or qt | 23:29 |
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| freemangordon | MrPingu: dcew if for sure guilty for the way it hanles popen()/fread() | 23:30 |
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| freemangordon | *is | 23:30 |
| freemangordon | but I still think its is buggy ppoll()/pselect() which might help h-h to lock | 23:30 |
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| freemangordon | so until we fix that in CSSU i'd rather not make deffinitive statements | 23:31 |
| kerio | is it fixed in cssu-thumb? | 23:31 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: no | 23:32 |
| freemangordon | i wanted glibc in -T first | 23:32 |
| kerio | the libc in -devel is fixed, though, right? | 23:32 |
| Lava_Croft | hey freemangordon, i guess you like Half-Life? | 23:32 |
| kerio | who doesn't :D | 23:32 |
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| Lava_Croft | Look what the internets recently spit out then: http://i.imgur.com/I1wSi.jpg | 23:32 |
| freemangordon | kerio: but as you know repo refused to import the .debs | 23:32 |
| Lava_Croft | I just took that picture ingame | 23:32 |
| Lava_Croft | 'game' | 23:32 |
| kerio | ? | 23:32 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: you can bet on that (/me liking HL) | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: apparently some early alpha leaked to the net | 23:33 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: aah, this is HL 2 | 23:33 |
| kerio | neat | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | which is what you see in the picture | 23:33 |
| freemangordon | no, this is HL2 | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | eh, that pic is hl2, alpha build | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | er | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | hl1 | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | not hl2 | 23:33 |
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| freemangordon | aah, yes | 23:33 |
| kerio | why are we talking about early alphas when THE GABECUBE is about to be released (maybe)? | 23:33 |
| Lava_Croft | who cares about another console | 23:34 |
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| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: early alpha of what? | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | linux port? | 23:34 |
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| Lava_Croft | no, halflife1 | 23:35 |
| Lava_Croft | when it was basically still a glorified quake mod | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MrPingu: sissi! real sysops know how to upgrade kernel without killing their uptime ;-P | 23:36 |
| kerio | ksplice? | 23:37 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: kernel? kernel was not upgraded in -thumb some 4-5 months | 23:37 |
| kerio | real sysops know how to use apt instead of ham! | 23:38 |
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| MrPingu | but apt is so fast | 23:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | real sysops appreciate slow pkg managers, gives opportunity for a relaxed cup of good coffee | 23:39 |
| tadzik | test runs <3 | 23:40 |
| MrPingu | pizza ;) | 23:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMnrl0tmd3k | 23:40 |
| kerio | not sure if i already posted that video | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | not much video in that video | 23:41 |
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| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: you mean like http://xkcd.com/303/ ? | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: exactly | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the hover text is even better | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 23:43 |
| merlin1991 | one of the reasons why I always link to the original, the hover text are awesome 9 out of 10 times :D | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not unusual with xkcd, hovertexts often are the icing on top of the already awesome sketch | 23:45 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: regarding libc, I tried to ship the fixed one in T7, but the stubborn repo on maemo.org didn't import it | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 23:46 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: https://gitorious.org/~arcean/community-ssu/arceans-qt-x11-maemo/commit/bd952eede40ad0e0ee368e0a5a65566d93667b19 | 23:48 |
| freemangordon | arcean: why don;t you request a merge? | 23:49 |
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| freemangordon | oops, echan | 23:50 |
| freemangordon | however | 23:50 |
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