IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-12-20

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ShadowJKat 8pm?00:12
ShadowJKseems tough00:12
RiDtake the red pill00:15
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: yes, I failed today. I have solved it temporarily by a 5v AC square wave across the gum line00:34
DocScrutinizer05well, not that it hurts00:39
* ShadowJK would've suggested a "bedtime" cocktail of 1000mg ibuprofein and 1000mg paracetamol00:39
DocScrutinizer05no paracetamol00:39
DocScrutinizer051000mg may already be liver toxic00:40
DocScrutinizer05esp when taken with alcohol00:40
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SpeedEvilwell, I've taken 500mg paracetamol, 300mg aspirin, 300mg ibuprofen00:41
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, you can take 3000 per day00:41
DocScrutinizer05per day maybe00:41
ShadowJK1000 max per taking, then you need to space it out00:42
DocScrutinizer05though they plan to completely forbid it00:42
ShadowJKThe aspirin is mostly redundant in that mix00:43
DocScrutinizer05medical doctors and scientists say they don't know why it's still used, since it's not really strong and way too dangerous00:43
ShadowJKWell, there isn't any other prescription-free not NSAID pain reliever out there00:43
DocScrutinizer05I'd recommend 600mg ibu00:44
DocScrutinizer05and drop the rest00:44
SpeedEvilindeed. last time it happened (a decade ago) paracetamol/aspirin/ibuprofen at maximum dose diddn't help.00:45
DocScrutinizer05aspirin is also not really effective as pain killer, but does a super job as blood thinner, for 3 or 4 days after ingestion00:45
SpeedEvil~150hz square wave across the gum did00:45
SpeedEvilso was trying a combination00:46
DocScrutinizer05for me ibuprofen helped best, last time I had that problem maybe 9 months ago00:47
DocScrutinizer05I tested all three00:48
ShadowJKIbu should calm down the swelling and inflammation, and put less pressure and strain on the nerve, as well as dampen some of the chemical pain transmitters. Paracetamol does nothing of that, but it acts through the central nervous system as painkiller. The mix is complementary, and if you take the maximum dose in one burst, when you're fatigued, it might give enough temporary relief that you can fall asleep, and hopefully note wake up too soon as the pain00:48
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ShadowJK creeps back. Then you suffer minimum dosage during the day, saving up for the bedtime burst.00:48
ShadowJKIt totally fails if your brain suddenly goes "Ah, no pain, now I can get stuff done!"00:49
DocScrutinizer05sounds reasonable00:49
* ShadowJK once worked at a military hospital :P00:49
DocScrutinizer05would also explain why paracetamol didn't help for me, my brain si immune to such stuff ;-D00:50
ShadowJKThe downside of Paracetamol is that it destroys your liver. The downside of Ibu (and aspirin, and most other NSAIDs) is that it makes your stomach bleed. Alcohol does both00:51
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DocScrutinizer05aspirin much worse than ibu, i'd guess00:52
SpeedEviland morphine has its own fun side effects.00:53
ShadowJKWell Aspirin has the bonus of making your blood thinner, so if you bleed anywhere it doesn't clot as fast00:53
SpeedEvil(no, not taking)00:53
DocScrutinizer05aspirin almost kills me, unless I swallow it with 1+L of water00:53
ShadowJKIbu used to do that for me00:53
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: morphine doesn't really help on tooth ache either00:53
DocScrutinizer05or that's again just me00:53
ShadowJKFeeling of someone attaching a powertool to my stomach and trying to tie it into a knot, then frothlike acidy burps00:54
ShadowJKI'm fascinated by the 5V squarewave, what are you using as electrode, how far apart etc00:55
ShadowJKWhat kind of relief is it providing?00:55
DocScrutinizer05and: **could we make an app out of that?**00:55
ShadowJKbooston-boostoff is only 2.5V peak to peak ;-)00:56
DocScrutinizer05voltage doubler ;-)00:56
ShadowJKuh, that was wrong but you know what I mean00:56
DocScrutinizer05err, actually nope00:56
DocScrutinizer05since err it's a square wave00:57
DocScrutinizer05aah yes00:57
DocScrutinizer05but SpeedEvil didn't explain if peak2peak or average 5V00:57
DocScrutinizer05or rather, if it's symetrical around zero or pulsed DC00:58
DocScrutinizer05>>class II device restricted to use on the prescription of a licenced physician<< MEH!01:02
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DocScrutinizer05haha, prisoners escaped 20th floor prison. Through a window with 12.7cm width SUUUURE!01:38
DocScrutinizer05maybe inch01:38
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DocScrutinizer05>>But exactly how Banks and Conley slipped through a window just 5 inches wide was not immediately clear.<<01:43
DocScrutinizer05must be real flatheads01:44
DocScrutinizer05maybe they placed that rope there as a red herring for the investigators01:45
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SpeedEvilspecifically, AC, symmetric around zero. and that was the maximum02:08
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's TENS - it's a well studied phenomena. basically, you apply sharp edges to the nerves, causing them to fire repeatedly, and become fatigued. this state lasts an hour or three02:10
SpeedEvilShadowJK: 1cm^2 stainless steel electrodes placed either side of the gum, with the other side insulated02:10
SpeedEvilneedless to say. applying voltage to your body can kill.02:11
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Macerwow like.... these places are ridiculous with these e7 prices03:27
Maceri guess i'll just get one from amazon for 25003:27
SpeedEvilwhy an e7?03:32
Macerit won't break like the n900 and has a qwerty03:48
Macerand supports att03:48
Maceri've honestly gotten to the point wher i use like 3 things on my phone03:52
Macerssh client, browser, gtalk/xmpp client03:52
Macer4 if you count tethering03:53
Macerbelieve it or not the lumia900 isn't too bad... but the lack of a qwerty drives me nuts03:53
uncloudedwhere can I find the .config for kernel-power?  scripts/extract-ikconfig told me that the zImage didn't include it03:53
robbiethe1stMacer: Hiss!!03:54
Macerrobbiethe1st: heh03:54
Maceri still have the n900 but the modem died on it03:54
Maceri use it like a nit03:54
Macersymbian^3 isn't too bad.. plus i can downgrade my overpriced data plan for a "dumbphone" plan03:55
Macerwith the e7 heh03:55
Maceri thought i was going to win a new one for $190 on ebay but got sniped at the last second and from ebay i wouldn't pay more than 20003:56
Macerbut i'll pay 250 for a new one on amazon :)03:58
ShadowJKMacer, have you seen the "modem fix" threads?03:59
ShadowJKBasically, the modem chips are under a shield, you open up N900, and open the shield, then take a pencil's spring, cut it to about 2 turns, and put that below the shield to press down on the modem chips04:00
ShadowJKSeems to have worked for atleast 2 people04:00
ShadowJKRisk of killing tablet-N900 of course :(04:00
ShadowJKSpeaking of "not breaking", I encountered a Lumia with broken microusb port the other day :)04:04
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SpeedEvildid I link the pics of the motoactv - a tiny watch-like android device.04:05
SpeedEvilwith a through hole secured USB port04:05
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MacerSpeedEvil: that doesn't change the fact all i would get is edge tho ;)04:12
Maceri can deal with 3G vs LTE04:12
Macerbut Edge vs 3G is too much04:12
SpeedEvilno 3g on the above04:13
SpeedEviledge kinda sucks04:13
Macerit seriously sucks ;)04:13
SpeedEvilI wish I had had time to work on my page compressor04:13
Macerbut that's ok. like i said....04:13
Macere7 will do nicely04:13
Maceri don't really use my phone for much anymore04:13
Macerbrowser,ssh,gtalk, and tethering are all that are required04:13
Macerand of course typical services like email etc04:14
Maceropenmoko lol04:14
SpeedEvilwell, yes04:15
SpeedEvilit was a page I wrote a while ago04:15
SpeedEvilstill applies though04:15
Macerwell. .i'm just saying. the n900 isn't worth the effort if it can't do 3G04:16
Macera shame really.. i'd have kept with tmobile if it worked properly still :)04:16
Maceri loved my n90004:16
Maceris verizon gsm with sims? i honestly don't know04:17
Maceri might actually consider sprint  next since they have an actual unlimited data plan04:17
Maceri think att is throttling me after going over a month.. which i didn't care spending the extra money04:18
SpeedEvilno idea04:18
Macerbut then they throttled me and it is running like shit. i need to call them tomorrow and ask wtf is up04:18
SpeedEvilnot really up on the us market, for obvious reasons04:18
Maceri might go with verizon next after my last 8 months with att is up04:19
SpeedEvilpondering a teeny mvno04:19
Maceroh yah. sorry ;)04:19
SpeedEvilwacky services04:20
SpeedEvillike you can have a mobile with no phone number04:20
SpeedEvilits back end is your sip server04:20
SpeedEviland you can have your own server as your APN.04:21
Macerthat's actually04:24
Macerawesome lol04:24
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merlin1991unclouded: it's in the source package06:04
uncloudedreally?  I had a look there.  I'll look again06:04
merlin1991unclouded: it's built on autobuilder it has to be ;)06:05
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uncloudedwould you expect it to be inside the kernel-bfs-bootimg package?06:05
merlin1991but I'd expect it in here:
uncloudedis it inside the .fiasco image in that package?06:07
merlin1991why do you search for the config inside the binary packages?06:08
merlin1991grab the source06:08
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uncloudedah!  sorry, didn't realise06:09
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merlin1991you'll need the diff from above plus this
merlin1991or you just use apt-get source :)06:11
uncloudedI think I'll use "apt-get source" so I don't mess anything else up.  thank you!06:11
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keriounclouded: KP52 is about to be released though09:48
keriounclouded: check the kernel-power thread on TMO09:49
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uncloudedthx kerio.  i'm just re-learning how to build a kernel though.  can it be done with a cross-compiler on a x86 host?09:55
keriounclouded: install scratchbox09:55
freemangordonunclouded: you should either use scratchbox or madde afaik09:55
unclouded seems down.  is that just for me?09:56
freemangordonunclouded: ni :(09:56
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freemangordonunclouded: why you want to build the kernel?09:56
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uncloudedI'd like to have a go at booting Debian on mmc1p1 but I can't see what's going wrong.  I wanted to see if the fb could be used as the console09:57
uncloudedmaybe I just need parameters to kernel-power in which case I'll feel silly09:58
freemangordonif you want to boot another os, then what you need is u-boot09:59
uncloudedgot that.  u-boot-flasher from devel-extras.  uboot-pr13 didn't cut it09:59
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freemangordonalso, if you want fb console, just insmod the module in init scripts09:59
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uncloudedoh.  ok, now I feel silly.  so I don't need to build a kernel to find out what's going wrong10:00
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freemangordonunclouded: if you boot debian's kernel by using u-boot, KP won;t be oaded. Or I am missing something10:01
uncloudedI didn't think there was a Debian kernel ( built for N900) so I was going to try using KP to boot Debian10:02
uncloudedwhich modules will I need?  fbcon obviously.  also omaplfb?  any others?10:04
freemangordonunclouded: won;t work, KP is 2.6.28, glibc in debian won;t like it AFAIK10:04
freemangordonwhat debian BTW?10:04
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uncloudedrly?  even though it works to chroot to /media/mmc1?  squeeze armel10:05
freemangordonaah, that one might work10:05
freemangordonwell, if you modprobe fbcon, it should load all that is needed AIUI10:06
uncloudedI should learn how to get fbcon anyway10:06
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uncloudedsweet, cheers10:08
freemangordonhave in mind that is for maemo, i don;t know where you should do modprobe fbcon in debian10:08
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freemangordonbut the module is there (in KP I mean)10:09
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uncloudedI guess I'll need it in the bootmenu script?10:12
freemangordonunclouded: don't think so10:13
freemangordonaah, wait10:13
freemangordonbootmenu script?10:13
uncloudedu-boot provides a menu.  I don't mean the bootmenu package, which I don't have installed10:14
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freemangordonunclouded: u-boot scripts won't do the job afaik.10:15
uncloudedMaemo is in NAND, with u-boot-flasher from devel-extras ( stock kernel, not power).  I can now boot Maemo with either stock, power or bfs from the menu but I'd like to try booting the Debian on mmc110:16
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uncloudedreally?  damn10:16
freemangordonunclouded: but you'd better ask Pali. when he is online10:16
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Paliwhen will be migration of done? when will be maemo again in read-write mode?11:26
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keriounclouded: bfs is awful11:49
keriounclouded: how did you install debian?11:49
uncloudedI think it was debootstrap -foreign from my laptop11:49
uncloudedthanks for the bfs tip.  I should stick to power then?11:50
kerioPali: will KP52 work with debian?11:50
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keriounclouded: my guess is that you should put the modules in your debian root's /lib/modules11:50
uncloudedI am making some progress11:50
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PaliI do not know11:50
Paliwhy not?11:50
kerioand then just tell uboot to boot with the root you want11:51
uncloudedwith Pail's zImage-2.6.28-omap1-fb I can now see that the kernel is waiting for the root device11:51
uncloudedI was trying to boot without an initrd and I guess mmc_block isn't compiled in, so I'm trying to make a squeeze initrd with 2.6.28-omap1 atm11:52
keriooh right, those aren't compiled in, no11:52
uncloudedso I suppose my options are either compile a kernel with mmc_block or try for an initrd, which would be less effort I hope11:53
keriounclouded: apparently you MUST install and run watchdog on your debian install11:53
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.11:54
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uncloudedyes, I read that here:
uncloudedhard powerdown after 60 seconds otherwise11:54
kerioPali: does the current uboot support extfs?11:55
DocScrutinizer06grrrr electranox11:55
uncloudedseems so.  it's loading the uImage from ext2 part on the SD card11:55
uncloudedDocScrutinizer06, why "grrrr"?  I don't know the history11:55
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DocScrutinizer06meh, this site refused to correct (C) of the originial charging script11:56
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DocScrutinizer06which evidently been (C) by me11:56
DocScrutinizer06err boost sctipt11:57
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DocScrutinizer06nope, charging12:03
DocScrutinizer06doesn't matter, nice site lots of info12:03
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: hey, you adopted 2119? :-D13:56
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo 211913:56
infobot2119 -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Mon Aug  9 18:05:45 2010 (863 days); it has been requested 40 times, last by kerio, 2h 2m 31s ago.13:56
DocScrutinizer05~rfc 211913:57
infobotrumour has it, rfc 2119 is Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels. S. Bradner. March 1997. (Format: TXT=4723 bytes) (Also BCP0014) (Status: BEST CURRENT PRACTICE)13:57
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's cool14:13
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, just fighting ¶ł@„³@¼²{¬{¬½ KDE plasma panel settings, so might be even unable to type answer14:14
DocScrutinizer05so FSCKNG INCREDIBLY obfuscated and inconvenient14:14
DocScrutinizer05just wanted to remove an applet and by one silly click removed my standard panel14:15
DocScrutinizer05of course incl all applets14:16
DocScrutinizer05F U KDE4!!!14:16
keriolol why u mad tho14:22
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DocScrutinizer05meh, it's just a PITA14:26
DocScrutinizer05I honestly can see why e.g. Rasterman is just using 6584 xterms on his desktop, nuttin else14:28
DocScrutinizer05his colered-on-black theme though, with 4PT fonts, would drive me mad ;-D14:28
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DocScrutinizer05plus it's evidently unhealthy and unergonomic, since your eyes will adapt to low ambient brightness which (each photographer knows what I'm talking bout) is reducing both the reaction speed and the available resolution of the eye14:31
DocScrutinizer05anyway murphy seems determined to spoil my day, or that's all in preparation of tomorrow's end of the world already14:33
DocScrutinizer05lemme test sth14:33
DocScrutinizer05~rfc BEHAVE14:34
DocScrutinizer05thought as much14:34
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infobotDocScrutinizer51: thanks16:18
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DocScrutinizer05please inform me when this direct connection xchat login ( DocScrutinizer51 ) gets too noisy16:32
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: too noisy!16:44
kerioyou should really get a bouncer16:44
keriothey're really good16:45
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thedead1440does anyone have an idea of how big really is? we can't seem to get the 80GB ivgalvez mentioned yesterday...16:50
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freemangordon~seen ivgalvez20:51
infobotivgalvez <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 1h 44m 26s ago, saying: 'speak later'.20:51
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keriomaybe it's an order21:08
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uncloudedbig thanks to everyone who helped with u-boot.  my N900 just booted Debian squeeze armel from uSD22:16
rooster_rusunclouded: how does it work?22:17
uncloudedwatchdog not being kicked yet so I haven't played with it but it shows a login prompt22:17
rooster_rusnot much22:18
rooster_rusno X?22:18
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uncloudedprobably will run X.  I'm not using a Debian kernel, I'm using Maemo stock + fb by Pali22:18
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freemangordonunclouded: you will be even able to run sgx drivers from maemo22:30
freemangordonGLES accel that is22:31
freemangordonor better said - in theory ^^^22:31
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uncloudedoh dear.  the watchdog really does need to work inside the initrd if the initrd is going to attempt to repair file systems23:44
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keriohm, is there a way to put down the watchdog?23:56
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