IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-12-18

infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: err scratch that, install KP51, then restore from BM00:00
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Gh0stythe hands with sound!00:10
Gh0stythats been a long time i have seen that :p00:10
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Gh0styhmm with the default repos from a pr flash is there a quick way (through application install?) to get the testing etc repos?00:21
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Gh0styjust install cssu-configuration ?00:22
keriofirst install cssu00:23
Gh0styhmm cssu is not in the default repos?00:23
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MohammadAGI dont get soldering00:29
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DocScrutinizer05Gh0sty: first test your kbd LEDs and stuff, hell fire and brimstone00:48
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Gh0styyeah now it works :)00:50
Gh0stybut we'll see after the cssu upgrade and not going to restore the backups yet ...00:50
DocScrutinizer05cssu is to be installed like instructed on00:52
infobotcssu is, like,
DocScrutinizer05don't do weird '1337' stuff like manually installing catalogs/repos or anything!00:52
keriodo it, just be prepared to occasionally reflash :)00:53
DocScrutinizer05kerio: shutup00:53
keriok :(00:54
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you know pretty well that there's an enabler to run00:54
keriooh, you meant to install cssu itself?00:55
kerioi thought you meant in general00:55
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-17 23:52:08] <DocScrutinizer05> cssu is to be installed like instructed on00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-17 23:52:10] <DocScrutinizer05> ~cssu00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-17 23:52:50] <DocScrutinizer05> don't do weird '1337' stuff like manually installing catalogs/repos or anything!00:56
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: try coating a normal installation wire (~1.5mm diameter) with tin00:57
DocScrutinizer05you'll learn a lot about how solder/tin behaves00:58
DocScrutinizer05and actually coating wire ends is a good preparation to connecting them by soldering00:59
DocScrutinizer05once you feel comfortable with coating 1.5mm wire so it looks not all messy but has a nice smooth coating, go and do same with 0.2mm diameter wire01:00
DocScrutinizer05then solder one of the 0.2mm ends to a 1.5mm end. Both of the ends coated before01:01
Gh0styactually is there no way to flash immediatly a PR 1.4 (PR 1.3 + CSSU or something)01:01
Gh0stywhy no image based updates? :/01:01
DocScrutinizer05you flash 1.3, then install CSSU according to installation instructions on
Gh0styi know just did it01:02
Gh0stywas just wondering if there were no new PR's from the community or smth01:02
kerioGh0sty: making eMMC images is a pain in the ass01:02
DocScrutinizer05why no images? well, mainly because nobody prepared an image yet01:02
kerioGh0sty: so you have to keep everything in the rootfs until the first boot01:02
keriobut then it might not fit01:02
DocScrutinizer05yep, that too01:03
keriounless we remove something from the image itself01:03
kerioalso, we have to doublecheck that nothing that CSSU provides installs directly in /opt01:03
keriootoh, if we just disregard fiasco images we can also ignore the stupid maemo-optify-runonce01:04
Gh0stymy kernel is after cssu testing install still power5901:08
Gh0stynot 5101:08
MohammadAGIts more legal issues01:10
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05: trying to solder anything makes me break it01:10
DocScrutinizer05Gh0sty: your kernel after installing CSSU should still be stock01:10
Gh0stywell i already updated it before installing cssu :p01:11
MohammadAGI tried soldering something on top of a pin, the pin broke off cause of heat01:11
Gh0stybut how do i get power 51 now? :/01:11
infobotfrom memory, kp is
MohammadAGHow long should i leave the gun to heat up before I start trying to solder01:11
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: GUN??? :-o01:12
MohammadAGIts an iron shaped like a gun01:12
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, that's just for killing stuff01:12
DocScrutinizer05not even01:12
DocScrutinizer05can solder with such a gun01:13
DocScrutinizer05it's a friggin monster01:13
MohammadAGIts very light01:13
DocScrutinizer05forget it01:13
DocScrutinizer05you can't solder electronic stuff with a gun01:14
DocScrutinizer05if only because you need to hold your 'iron' like a pencil01:14
MohammadAGI could do that01:14
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MohammadAGThe "barrel" isnt that small :p01:15
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DocScrutinizer05then I probably have no clue what type of 'gun' you're talking about, but honestly I suggest to get a proper 25..35W soldering iron01:16
kerioMohammadAG: that thing is huge01:16
DocScrutinizer05meh, forget dat shite01:17
DocScrutinizer05get this;PROVID=2028;&utm_source=Preisvergleich&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Preisvergleich_google_feed&gclid=CJGlwrPJorQCFUFb3godfRYAPQ01:17
DocScrutinizer05or one of those:;ACTION=2;LA=3;GROUP=D212;GROUPID=549;START=0;OFFSET=16;SHOW=1;SID=12UM@oFH8AAAIAAGIDHqscc47b96fe5e9092d40df622d634e3a8801:18
DocScrutinizer05even that one;ACTION=3;LA=2;ARTICLE=89497;GROUPID=4136;artnr=KOLBEN+FP+30;SID=12UM@oFH8AAAIAAGIDHqscc47b96fe5e9092d40df622d634e3a8801:19
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DocScrutinizer05find a bin to dump that gun in01:24
keriowell, it's still good to solder bigger stuff01:25
teotwakidump a gun in a bin?01:25
DocScrutinizer05actually forget that last one I linked above, it is already too strong with its 50W (unless you use it with a dimmer to reduce power)01:26
kerioteotwaki: to get rid of the evidence01:26
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MohammadAGBah, im pissed01:29
teotwakiI was going to say: "Disassemble the main parts of the gun, duck tape them together in a sticknade, go to an international truck stop and throw the nades on top of a few trucks"01:29
teotwakibest way I know of to dispose of a handgun.01:29
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teotwakisticknade: wrap a number of small items together into a small shape (flat, preferably) held together with ducktape, and with ducktape on the outside, so that when you throw it, it sticks.01:30
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: here's what I thought you're using:
teotwakiisn't that enough to blow out any circuitry near the tip?01:31
DocScrutinizer05that shit starts to glow red after a few seconds01:32
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DocScrutinizer05now that looks exactly like soldered with
DocScrutinizer05at least that huge ugly tin blob over the black patch (chip) is the best I could do with that gun01:36
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MohammadAGWoo, burned finger01:36
DocScrutinizer05toldya you don't!01:36
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: honestly, stop that. Get a nice decent soldering iron for a 10 bucks tomorrow01:38
DocScrutinizer05will save you lots of woes and frustration01:38
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MohammadAGI soldered the usb cable01:39
teotwakiI'll second doc on this one01:39
MohammadAGThis was $20 :p01:40
teotwakithe best way to get scared of soldering is to use a crappy soldering iron.01:40
teotwakialso, for fuck's sake, clean your soldering iron after every single drip.01:40
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teotwakijust have a big wad of toilet paper, or a moist sponge and rub off any excess off the tip. You'll thank me in 3 years, and you still use the same iron.01:41
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DocScrutinizer05not THAT one01:41
teotwakiand don't use your mom's kitchen sponge. She'll kill you; you'll have killed her sponge.01:41
teotwakiDon't use the toilet/litterbox sponge either. Heat doesn't play well with poo.01:42
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DocScrutinizer05paper tissue is just fine01:43
teotwakiyeah, but the moist/cold sponge helps with the initial burns, they are inevitable.01:43
DocScrutinizer05toilet paper (though.... IL, MohammadAG, I dunno)01:43
teotwakiYou think they don't have toilet paper in IL?01:44
MohammadAGOh we do, i assure you01:44
DocScrutinizer05I know some regions on this earth they don't use toilet paper01:44
teotwakiMaybe they use shells.01:44
DocScrutinizer05nah, water01:44
DocScrutinizer05guess why you don't use your left hand for holding food, in e.g. marocco01:45
MohammadAGWe use water too01:46
MohammadAGBut there's toilet paper01:46
MohammadAGAnyway, thoughts on the cable?01:46
MohammadAGAnd how the heck do i test it01:46
teotwakiWell, that's the problem with USB.01:47
DocScrutinizer05hard to tell from that photo01:47
MohammadAGIt charges the N8601:48
DocScrutinizer05IF I had to utter a notion to save my life, i'd say 'looks fishy'01:48
DocScrutinizer05that's a micro-USB plug?01:48
DocScrutinizer05to the N86?01:49
teotwakiWhy I weep when I see we went from serial ports to usb... serial ports were optoisolated01:49
MohammadAGNo data01:49
DocScrutinizer05looks like a micro-B01:50
MohammadAGMicro B indeed01:50
teotwakimess with a usb port, and you'll fry your mobo01:50
teotwakimess with an rs232, and you'll fry... the rs232 controller, at best.01:50
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MohammadAGTried with N90001:50
MohammadAGIt shows the usb dialog01:50
DocScrutinizer05rs232 rarely ever is opto-isolated01:50
DocScrutinizer05MAX232 very common01:50
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: was it the parallel port then?01:51
MohammadAGSelected mass storage, failed to enumerate on P C01:51
MohammadAGI guess that cable is gone?01:51
DocScrutinizer05only stuff that's regularly opto is MIDI01:51
FIQ 00:54:57 up  1:33,  0 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.26, 0.4201:52
FIQ"0 users"01:52
DocScrutinizer05ask for lusers! ;-P01:52
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: wasn't there a current loop thingie on rs232?01:52
MohammadAGYep, data doesn't work01:53
DocScrutinizer05nah, rs232 is +/-12V01:53
MohammadAGWonder what pin 3 is01:53
DocScrutinizer05not current loop01:53
DocScrutinizer05that's tty/20mA01:53
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: guess01:53
DocScrutinizer05D+ or D-01:53
MohammadAGD+ Id say01:53
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MohammadAG1/2 would be power01:54
MohammadAG3/4 d+/d-?01:54
DocScrutinizer05and from that way too small distant photo I'd say the D+ and D- are short01:54
DocScrutinizer051 +, 2 D+, 3 D-, 4 ID, 5 GND01:54
DocScrutinizer05or sth like that01:54
MohammadAGAh, vbus is 1 pin01:55
DocScrutinizer05on 4 pin USB 4 is GND01:55
DocScrutinizer05yep VBUS+01:55
MohammadAGNo, if sth is shorted then itd be D+ and ID01:55
teotwakiFIQ: output of who?01:56
MohammadAGWould a multimeter helps?01:56
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: I might have swapped ID and GND above01:56
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: are you messing with me?
teotwakioh wait01:58
teotwakiI'm confused.01:58
MohammadAGDoes power flow through a disconnected usb cable?01:59
MohammadAGAs in one part in PC the other out01:59
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DocScrutinizer05there mustn't02:00
DocScrutinizer05usually a dangling cable never should have any current flowing thru it02:00
teotwakibtw, changing the topic02:00
DocScrutinizer05USB no exception02:00
teotwakithoughts on the lenovo e330?02:00
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05: its micro B02:01
MohammadAGI have a micro a otg cable02:01
MohammadAGFrom the Nokia N8 package02:01
MohammadAGHavent tried any lenovos02:01
MohammadAGBut HP is a never again for me02:01
MohammadAGTwo batteries in two years, and the charger sympathizes with them and breaks too02:02
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DocScrutinizer05well, my T500 (used) came with a defect PSU, they sent me 2 new spare ones02:02
DocScrutinizer05a friend of mine has the ultraslim version of the T5xx series, and told me to stay away from it02:03
DocScrutinizer05since it's the complete opposite of the good old strudy T50002:04
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DocScrutinizer05the BIOS fan control is a crappy joke though02:05
DocScrutinizer05on mine02:05
MohammadAGWonder if i should replace the battety or sell the laptop02:05
DocScrutinizer05what is it?02:06
teotwakiwell, I've had a lenovo x1 carbon02:06
teotwakiand it's fantastic02:06
teotwakibest keyboard on a laptop, bar none02:06
teotwakigreat touchpad02:06
teotwakibut I'd like a cheap 13" for travel02:07
teotwaki11" is too small to do any real work on.02:07
teotwakiand hard to get decent hardware under02:07
DocScrutinizer05whatever friends, my pub doesn't wait for me. But I'm waiting for my beer02:08
teotwakiMohammadAG: if you want a sweet and sexy linux laptop02:08
teotwakilook at the x1 carbon02:08
teotwakivery nicely priced for the hardware you get.02:09
MohammadAGThey still have that mouse thingy?02:12
teotwakioh yea02:12
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: one more for leaving: was that you or timeless who built the alternative locales?02:13
DocScrutinizer05mouse thingy? that red knob that I removed and stuffed it into the phone receptacle?02:14
teotwakithe mouse clit, yes.02:14
DocScrutinizer05dman what a mouse!!! ;-P02:15
DocScrutinizer05damn even02:15
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: I do remember messing around with locales, but I don't think I ever published something...02:15
DocScrutinizer05for N810/diablo?02:15
teotwakiyou're getting old, DocScrutinizer05.02:15
teotwakiYou asked that question in August.02:15
DocScrutinizer05quite possible02:16
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05ask timeless, he published his own improved translations - or was it crashanddie?02:16
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05zeq: I juggled with all that shite some 2 years ago. My conclusion been it's not possible to do anything about it. IIRC the 'normal' locale dirs don't contain anything, it's all in that 23MB closed blob locale-cache02:16
GeneralAntillestimeless is the l10n man.02:16
teotwakiApparently qwerty published the actual purge.02:17
teotwakiHoly shit, french border control "extreme" division. Heli pilot training: "At some point, the instructor will turn off the engines, either during flight, takeoff or landing. The pilot has no other option that to succeed the exercise and control the vehicle's reaction"02:19
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ShadowJKThat's standard training in a majority of helicopters, civilian too02:25
teotwakiShadowJK: in a live helicopter?02:27
ShadowJKExcept most attempts will have "power recovery" at the end, the pilot executes an engine-off landing with the heli, but levels out a few feet above ground, the instructor restores engine power and the heli enters a hover02:27
teotwakifair enough.02:28
ShadowJKIn some models you must also do the full touchdown during training atleast once02:28
ShadowJKbut there are some that don't fly that well without engines, and you might not get to do full touchdown and stop02:29
teotwakiI thought passing my bike license was a hassle.02:29
ShadowJKHelicopter flying is roughly similar to balancing two bowling balls ontop of 30 foot pole02:30
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teotwakiI figured---I was jesting.02:33
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teotwakiIt's surprising though, I remember the first time I tried to drive a bike02:34
teotwakiI thought I would never understand the basics02:34
ShadowJK Instructors cuts engine power, pilot does a 360 turn over water and touches down on a beach :)02:34
teotwakiI've now passed my license twice, and a few thousand miles further, I completed an advanced training course no sweat.02:35
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teotwakisame with chutes, first time, it went by in a flash, and I hardly enjoyed any of it, nowadays, I jump solo, take the out position on planes to film or photograph others, etc.02:37
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teotwakiI'm guessing helis must be the same, it just becomes an extension of your body.02:37
ShadowJKI think it's mostly about getting your brainstem programmed02:39
ShadowJKthe brain is too slow for the small corrections and reactions needed to maintain stable flight :)02:40
teotwakidjeezus, billy robbins, 360kg at 19yo02:42
ShadowJKiirc I once worked out that most helis with engines out have same glide ratio as the space shuttle. The space shuttle gets to start at 300km of altitude though :)02:43
teotwakiI think helis are the sexiest of the heavier than air flights02:44
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ShadowJKI got fascinated by them after discovering FlightGear had a heli model02:45
ShadowJKMy first flight lasted about half a second02:46
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teotwakiI think I've destroyed about a grand worth of rc helis02:46
ShadowJKA year later and I was pretty good in flightgear's heli models, but my PC was too slow by then, so I bought a rc heli :)02:47
ShadowJKOh and before that, rc heli sim, helped me alot to not crash rc heli on first flights02:47
ShadowJKAll the cool RC pilots land without motor power too :(02:50
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FIQteotwaki: nothing03:10
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JZAhi I want to use an app called ytube03:13
JZAbut it seems it has been broken for some weaks03:13
JZAi wonder if there is a way I can report the bug or lear if there is any patch on the way03:14
DocScrutinizer51well, I gather it is messing withyoutube03:14
JZAI found the garage page03:14
JZAbut the bug report route me to the forum03:14
DocScrutinizer51forum is a valid bugreport means03:15
DocScrutinizer51odds are that youtube changed their API and thus ytube doesn't work anymore03:16
JZAits odd, it seems I dont have an account on the forum, but have one on the site03:16
JZADocScrutinizer51: I am still getting most of the info of th videos and feed, the issue is when I try to download it, or play it.03:17
JZADocScrutinizer51: so it cant be an issue of the codec, but of the retrieving mechanism03:17
ShadowJKI think it must have been broken for more than just a few weeks03:17
JZAShadowJK: well I can still comment, thum up/down, and share it through fb/twitter03:18
JZAI only cant seem to play or download the video03:18
JZAI also dont see a link to the source so I cant tell what is the software using for that03:18
ShadowJKMy guess would be there's a python copy of youtube-dl lurking03:20
ShadowJKit tends to be that03:20
ShadowJKi guess dpkg -L ytube03:20
ShadowJKon your device, would give filelisting and see if it's a python app or what03:21
JZAit is a python app, I know that from the comments03:21
JZApython and QML03:21
JZAand also the changelog says it uses mplayer to reproduce the videos03:22
JZAI dont know what module/parameters do python uses.03:22
JZAto download the video03:22
DocScrutinizer51isn't it flash?03:25
JZADocScrutinizer51: huh?03:26
JZAwhat is flash?03:26
DocScrutinizer51flash like in shockwave flashplayer 1003:26
JZAI doubt python has a flash modulee03:27
JZAand even more odd to use it as a retrieval of files03:27
JZAit would probable be using curl, or something like that03:28
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DocScrutinizer51I'd figure they use flash9.+ microB plugin to playback, and do a screencast record03:30
ShadowJKwtf :)03:30
ShadowJKNone of the youtube apps do that03:30
DocScrutinizer51well youtube videos are flash, no?03:31
DocScrutinizer51then NFC03:31
ShadowJKthe youtube webpage uses a player implemented in flash03:31
ShadowJKThe videos are .mp403:31
DocScrutinizer51err ahhh ummm03:31
ShadowJKThe thing that usually fails is downloading from youtube. Google doesn't like players downloading the videos, and regulary change their webpage to break third party software.03:33
JZAShadowJK: well I use youtube-dl on my machine and I update regularly, is thn0n900ere a way to do the same for ytube on my03:34
DocScrutinizer51what I said03:34
JZApatch should be pretty simple, but without a repo of th code, or bugzilla is hard to push a patch.03:35
JZAalso I would presume ytube uses a modified version of youtube-dl03:35
ShadowJKI'd assume that too03:36
JZAit also seems I cant login to the forum, the contact admin form is broken (captcha doesnt work)03:39
JZAo I cant get my account back on working03:39
JZAI can login to the site, but not the forum03:39
DocScrutinizer51lease elaborate03:40
nox-youtube-dl needed an updated a few weeks (months?) ago bc yt changed something03:41
nox-(and i rarely have luck with n900 yt player bc they seem to be always out of date...)03:42
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JZAShadowJK: I pastee that link already, but their bugzilla send me to the forum, which I cant access :/03:44
ShadowJKthat one has .tar.gz of sourcecode03:44
ShadowJKif you're interested03:44
DocScrutinizer51well, microB worked 24h ago wtith03:45
nox-yeah only microb sorta works03:45
ShadowJKWell that's the official google approved youtube player03:45
nox-but other yt `apps' usually less so03:45
nox-ShadowJK, yeah03:46
DocScrutinizer51forum login should work03:46
DocScrutinizer51other services not so much03:46
ShadowJKWell he lost his password or something03:46
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JZAShadowJK: I didnt lost my password I can login to the maemo garage, but I cant login to forums03:51
JZAmakes sense?03:51
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DocScrutinizer05no04:25 is supposed to work04:25
DocScrutinizer05JZA: ^^^^04:25
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JZADocScrutinizer05: I think you didnt read me, the forum 'contact form' doesnt work
JZAand I cant login with my garage login/password04:37
JZADocScrutinizer05: captcha is busted04:38
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keriocutetube works for me07:38
kerioand it does youtube and dailymotion or something07:38
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keriomeh, nox- left07:49
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uncloudedthere's now another script to list, add and remove contacts from the command line:
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Igor2__i've installed BatteryGraph from extras on my N900, and the daemon part is strange10:39
Igor2__if the daemon is not running, no data is saved, but the process doesn't daemonize itself10:40
internetishardAfter fmms runs my connection stays on MMS, shouldn't it change back to internet connection?10:40
Igor2__now i believe this daemon is to blame for my device not booting up (it's animating the dot forever)10:40
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Igor2__do I have another option to fix this or am i doomed to reflash the device?10:41
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Igor2__ok, reflashing then10:52
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Igor2__was less painful than i thought11:08
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MacerHI GUYS!12:04
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cityLightswhats wrong with the mailing list?12:15
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DocScrutinizer05cityLights: yeah what?12:18
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cityLightsI got an email, need to look in to it. thought the email was going down12:21
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DocScrutinizer05unclouded: damn awesome12:23
DocScrutinizer05unclouded: and I see you're a real programmer :-) Placing constants left side of ==12:26
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DocScrutinizer05unclouded: ugh you're indeed a real programmer! lambda, my headache12:34
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DocScrutinizer05unclouded: I just wonder how much RAM this line will need for an addrbook with some 5000 contacts: >> contacts = addressbook.get_all_contacts() <<13:02
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DocScrutinizer05while python and generally OO is pretty nice to algorithmically express concepts, it's usually luring coders into a wasteful coding style regarding resources, and profiling/optimizing stuff is nearly impossible13:06
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, could somebody meter and profile this one line above, for runtime/cpu-usage and ram-usage?13:11
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DocScrutinizer05preferably considering size and number of records in /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db13:13
DocScrutinizer05mine is only 45k bytes, so probably not really useful for a stresstest13:14
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uncloudedvery true, I didn't even think about the memory required for that invocation.  too much development where RAM is cheaper than developer time! :)  not true of this device though13:15
jon_yheh, they told me RAM is dirt cheap13:16
jon_ydon't matter though if you are working on an embedded system13:16
jon_yor any SOC boards13:16
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DocScrutinizer05unclouded: dunno, maybe you could apply the lambda filter function during instantiation/initialization of the contacts object already?13:24
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DocScrutinizer05nfc how evolution class is implemented13:26
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MohammadAGI wonder why I even bother with Harmattan14:22
MohammadAGI drop one file in /etc/init and it MALFs14:22
MohammadAGNeither Android nor iOS do that14:22
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you already noticed that?14:32
DocScrutinizer05guess why I stopped even following what's up with HARM14:33
teotwakiI guess that shorthand is pretty self explanatory14:34
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: chosen carefully14:34
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teotwaki<mystical voice> Just like you were, DocScrutinizer05, just like you were... </>14:35
MohammadAGI wonder what borked state is infinite bootloop + red LED on the camera flash14:36
MohammadAGI can get to SDK mode, but ssh isn't started14:36
MohammadAGI don't want to throw the damn thing into open mode14:36
DocScrutinizer05open mode is a lie14:37
MohammadAGit only makes things worse14:37
DocScrutinizer05HARM is FUBAR. period14:37
DocScrutinizer05I really can't be arsed to even touch it14:38
DocScrutinizer05With fremantle we had the problem of missing docs regarding available dbus methods. With HARM we got the same PLUS the methods we know of or found out about are maybe disabled by some brainfart policy. Similar situation with config files14:41
MohammadAGoh nice, warranty void thingy14:42
RST38hHow is life?14:43
MohammadAG RST38h DocScrutinizer05 answered that :p14:44
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: you probably should blow the dust off your N90014:44
MohammadAGwow, still doesn't boot14:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, actually it's on14:44
teotwakiMohammadAG: Do not give in to the fear; fear leads to anger; anger leads to iOS; iOS leads to Objective-C; Objective-C leads to suffering.14:44
DocScrutinizer05music is the best14:45
teotwakisex is the best.14:45
MohammadAGObj-C isn't that bad14:45
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MohammadAGit's actually better than Java14:45
RST38hSuffering leads to compiling Linux kernel14:46
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RST38hCompiling Linux kernel leads to compiling Linux kernel14:46
teotwakiMohammadAG: you've said enough stupid things for today.14:46
RST38h[and then you die]14:46
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DocScrutinizer05wisdom is the domain of the wis (which is extinct)14:47
MohammadAGI actually liked Objective C :P14:47
MohammadAGthe only thing that made me stop development is how broken my hackintosh was14:47
MohammadAGand the fact a macbook cost about the same as the car I drive14:48
teotwakiMohammadAG: well, then understanding how to repair Harmattan should be no problem to you. You're obviously a masochist. Would you like a Windows 8 tablet with that?14:48
RST38hteotwaki: Sorry to ask, but what the fuck are you?14:48
DocScrutinizer05Beauty is a French phonetic corruption Of a short cloth neck ornament Currently in resurgence...14:48
teotwakiRST38h: eh?14:48
MohammadAGactually I was thinking of upgrading my laptop to Windows 814:48
teotwakiRST38h: I'm crashanddie.14:48
RST38hMohammad: Avoid.14:48
teotwakiAs to "what".14:48
teotwakiNo fucking clue.14:48
MohammadAGyou're human14:49
RST38hteotwaki: Ah, this places things into context =)14:49
teotwakiMohammadAG: I paid $800 for my mbp14:49
teotwakior was it $600?14:49
MohammadAGsee, that's not much14:49
RST38hMohammad: A while ago, specially trained MS representative tried selling me a Win8 ultrabook14:49
MohammadAGhalve that and add another 0 and you're good to go!14:49
teotwakiRST38h: what was it that was bothering you?14:50
MohammadAG(yes, it's $4k)14:50
jon_yis an ultrabook actually good for anything?14:50
RST38hMohammad: After we chatted for 10-15minutes, he basically agreed that it is not clear why MS is committing suicide in such a convoluted manner14:50
teotwakijon_y: travelling.14:50
teotwakijon_y: development.14:50
teotwakijon_y: linux14:50
RST38hteotwaki: Nothing, just putting mosaic pieces together14:50
teotwakijon_y: freedom.14:50
jon_yon an ultrabook...14:50
teotwakiwhy yes!14:50
jon_ydoes that actually work?14:50
MohammadAGI'd rather develop on an N90014:51
jon_yI mean the developing thing14:51
RST38hMohammad: Well, there is Android14:51
jon_ycan I make -j8? :)14:51
MohammadAGRST38h, I have a Galaxy S314:51
teotwakijon_y: sure :) If you have 3g :)14:51
MohammadAGdumped the iPhone, iOS 6 was eugh14:51
RST38hMohammad: But you will have to live with having to write a bunch of Java before getting to really interesting stuff14:51
MohammadAGI wrote a simple app14:51
jon_yteotwaki: 3g?14:52
jon_y3g connection?14:52
MohammadAGI enjoyed Obj-C more though14:52
jon_y3G costs an arm and a leg14:52
DocScrutinizer05we are devo14:52
teotwakijon_y: basically, the reason I'm looking for an ultrabook is because it at least offers the keyboard quality I need to spend hours on it.14:52
jon_ywith ridiculous 100MB quotas14:52
DocScrutinizer05are we not men?14:52
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jon_ywell, if it has USB, an external HD will do fine14:53
RST38hDoc: we are fiends,no?14:53
teotwakijon_y: I lent my (13") mbp to a friend, hence I need a laptop for travel. More specifically, I need a laptop tough enough to be mounted on a motorbike, and survive 1.5 meter drops.14:53
RST38hteotwaki: Not all ultrabooks have decent keyboards14:53
teotwakia mbp does not fulfil that equation.14:53
jon_yI don't think ultrabooks can survive impacts :)14:54
RST38hEspecially given the fact that every manufacturer out there is trying to copy jobsian island keyboard14:54
jon_yunless you cushion pad it14:54
teotwakijon_y: You've never seen a toughbook fall from the third storey and survive, have you?14:54
jon_yultrabooks are not toughbooks14:54
teotwakiSome ultrabooks are very tough :)14:54
jon_yat least those I've seen in stores14:54
RST38hmany ultrabooks have got metal cases14:55
jon_ythey all have ipad colors14:55
MohammadAGthis makes sense Dec 18 14:52:07 (2012) kernel: [   20.168884] init: boot-watchdog main process (521) killed by TERM signal14:55
teotwakijon_y: lenovo has some sturdy stuff.14:55
teotwakiAnd you don't usually find it in shops.14:55
ShadowJKJZA; I forget how it goes, but some things have separate passwords. Single sign on was never completed, iirc.14:55
jon_ymakes sense14:55
MohammadAGtalk is talk, rest is garage14:55
Hurrianteotwaki, what the hell survives 1.5 meter drops? non-W series Lenovo Thinkpads don't.14:55
jon_yteotwaki: so how much premium for that?14:56
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Hurrianand I'd be wary of strapping a $1000 laptop onto a bike.14:56
teotwakiallow me to qualify: drops == jumping with the bike.14:56
ShadowJKthe forum actually used to be sepaate from and run by an individual, so user/passes were obviously not connected14:56
* ShadowJK suspects the merging of accounts was never completed14:56
jon_yI'm looking at the giant HP workstation 8560w, looks awesome14:57
Hurrianteotwaki: oh. get a Samsung ARM chromebook or something, and some good shocks14:57
jon_ynot an ultrabook though14:57
teotwakiin which case, it's bike's suspension doing most of the shock absorption14:57
jon_ytoo bad I'll never actually able to afford it14:57
MohammadAGthis makes even more sense -rw-r--r-- 1 root root    0 Dec 17 17:01 group-mce.conf14:57
RST38hnot when the bike falls14:57
MohammadAGcan anyone paste that?14:57
RST38ha moment14:57
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jon_yas what I learned from traveling, get a cheap $200 laptop instead :)14:58
Hurrianteotwaki: any small laptop with an SSD would do fine.14:58
jon_yput your real machine behind ssh/rdp/vnc or something14:59
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RST38hthen deal with no internet connectivity14:59
jon_ywell, that or laptop gets stolen14:59
teotwakijon_y: yeah, I've got my compilation environment on two octo cores, but the trouble is when that goes down, or my internet is very dodgy.14:59
teotwakiand I don't see myself compiling 1.2M lines of code on an atom.15:00
MohammadAGRST38h, got it from scratchbox, ty though :)15:00
HurrianI seriously hope you aren't going to do builds on a tiny laptop.15:00
teotwakiI already have, quite a few times.15:00
RST38hAtom builds stuff just fine15:01
teotwakiEverything's chrooted and automated, so I know the compilation environment is clean.15:01
RST38hA bit slowly and it won't handle daily KDE builds I guess15:01
Hurrianwell, uhh, I wouldn't run around with a $1000 ultrabook on a bike.15:01
teotwakiNha, not $100015:01
HurrianMight just be me being paranoid of snatchers in my country, though.15:02
teotwakiHurrian: you really think the laptop will get stolen?15:02
teotwakiHurrian: if I leave the bike alone for 20 minutes it's gone.15:02
jon_ylol, I don't even leave my shoes outside my house15:02
HurrianI'd go with the cheap ARM Chromebook, install a decent Linux distro on it and keep the build environment on a SD card.15:03
jon_yyes, petty crime is rather rampant where I live15:03
teotwakiHurrian: in Spain, I once was standing next to the bike, without my riding gear, truck pulls up after 30 minutes, and two guys ask me to take a hike.15:04
jon_yteotwaki: they took your bike?15:04
Hurrianteotwaki: damn, that's crazy, man15:04
teotwakijon_y: no, I signaled a police car that wasn't too far away, put on my gear (helmet included) and pushed them away.15:05
jon_ythat is orders magnitude worst than the petty crimes I've seen15:05
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teotwakibikes get stolen like nothing. They're easy to sell, transport, whatever.15:06
RST38hDoc: Eeeek:
jon_ywhich part of Spain is that?15:06
Hurrianteotwaki: most motorbikes here are cheaper than an iPhone, so most petty thefts involve smartphones.15:07
Hurrianoh, and not to mention criminals can't afford a truck/pickup to haul bikes.15:08
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: indeed eeeeek15:08
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: I have to balance this with
* RST38h wonder who would buy a used bike15:09
MohammadAGif it's a motorbike, why not?15:10
MohammadAGI'd love a mainstream Honda CBR15:10
* RST38h had an extra bike for years before finally succeeding to sell it15:10
teotwakiLook at the 3 minute mark.15:10
MohammadAGI need a bike's license15:11
MohammadAGthough most people suggest otherwise15:11
teotwakiget it15:11
MohammadAGapparently, it's too dangerous :/15:11
teotwakiit's awesome.15:11
MohammadAGyou don't need to convince me15:11
teotwakiyou've got a hyper brain, you'll be fine.15:11
RST38hI guess it is popular in places where everybody rides motorbikes15:11
teotwakiJust wait till you're 24 before getting it.15:11
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teotwakiBefore 24-25, you'll be too hormone-imbalanced to drive safely.15:11
jon_ywhere I live, some bikers tend to be assholes15:12
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Hurrianoh, and don't be an ass about lane slicing.15:12
teotwaki"oooh, nice ass, I bet I can impress her by deafening her with my exhaust"15:12
jon_ylike making loud engine noises at 3am15:12
teotwakilane slicing?15:12
jon_yteotwaki: or weaving15:12
Hurrianteotwaki: when motorbikes think their pedestrians and drive straight down the middle of two lanes15:12
jon_ycutting in between cars in heavy traffic15:12
RST38hMakes me remember the story of a girl who got a dirt bike a few years ago15:13
RST38hDay 1: Got a dirt bike! It is soooo cool15:13
teotwakiHurrian: what's the problem with that?15:13
HurrianI've lost one too many side view mirrors.15:13
RST38hDay 3: Everybody is sooo polite with me on the road! Drivers let me pass them!15:13
MohammadAGI do that15:13
* MohammadAG hides15:13
RST38hDay 6: I am going to a biker party tonight, just outside the city15:13
MohammadAG(the slicing part)15:14
Hurriansomehow riders with insanely large backpacks on really wide scooters think that slicing in heavy traffic is a good idea15:14
jon_yteotwaki: also, many close calls running over bikers that think signal lights means OK to pass15:14
MohammadAGoh no, I do it with a car :p15:14
teotwakiHurrian: ah, but you are insulting me if you put a biker in the same category as a scooter driver.15:14
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RST38hDay 7: It is AAA's boyfriend. AAA's bike collided with a Lada last night, and she died on the spot.15:14
jon_yso I was making a left turn when the guy speeds up from behind, nearly ran over him15:14
Hurrianteotwaki: whoops, sorry. Nobody buys bikes for performance here, they want pack mules.15:15
RST38hQuestion: In comments to the last (Day 7) blog post, who got the most compassionate comments from the posters?15:15
teotwakiRST38h: the Lada?15:16
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RST38hteotwaki: Spot on. The Lada driver.15:16
teotwakifuck the driver, I'm worried about the car!15:16
RST38hteotwaki: Who is now going to face a 5-year sentence, out of the blue15:16
HurrianMohammadAG, used to ride a bike back in uni, and sliced a lot in light traffic - had a little incident with heavy traffic, slicing, and road rage.15:16
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teotwakijon_y: again, there's a big difference between lane slicing, which is just not getting stuck in traffic (I only condone it if the traffic is stuck, or moving very slowly), and riding like an idiot passing cars at intersections.15:16
teotwakiI once had an accident while slicing.15:17
Hurrianteotwaki: such as riders slicing to get to the front of the intersection?15:17
jaskaif the impact with my car doesnt kill you, i will :)15:17
teotwakiHurrian: again, no problem there :)15:17
jon_yno survivors, no witnesses, though the heavy traffic makes it hard for the latter to happen :)15:18
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jon_yteotwaki: it was slow moving traffic, I was turning into another lane15:18
Hurrianbut the difference is, lanes in my country are much more narrower than in richer countries, so if you're in anything larger than a sedan, you're bound to get scraped.15:18
jon_yI'm OK with bikers getting through slow moving traffic15:19
MohammadAGHurrian, oh :/15:19
jon_ybut not when I'm making a turn already15:19
MohammadAGis it sane that speed traps are now camouflaged?15:19
teotwakiActually, a car ran a red light, cut me off, coming from the right. As I had to brake real hard to evade him, I kind of road-raged, and decided I'd pass him. It was a straight white line, so I shouldn't have, but there was space. I accelerate nicely, and just as I'm level to his rear wheels, he decides to cross the white line and take a left into one-way street (obviously, the wrong way).15:19
Hurrianoh, and getting scraped on the road really rustles jimmies, unlike in parts of Europe (Paris?), where I hear that people use bumpers for actual bumping.15:19
teotwakiwell, it's what they're there for.15:20
jon_yI use my bumpers to get into tiny parking spots15:20
jon_ybump means you're too close15:20
Hurrianheh, even the lightest bump here would get your ears shouted off you.15:21
jaskastrange cultures. here bump would be a mortal sin15:21
jon_yobviously when nobody is around15:21
MohammadAGyou don't need to understand hebrew to see how ridiculous it got here :p15:21
Macerthat's why they're called bumpers!15:22
MohammadAGjaska, same here15:23
RST38hMohammad: Isn't that guy hot in his army lapserdak?15:23
Hurrianactually, people get rustled over bumps so much, that on the national highway, they /stop/ in the middle of the road even for minor scrapes.15:23
Hurrian2km long traffic jam ensues15:24
jaskasound normal to me15:24
Hurriangeez, can't people take a picture, then move their shit over to the side?15:24
RST38hHurrian: 2km traffic jam is nothing15:24
jon_ywhere I stay, people WILL SLOW DOWN to watch what they think is an accident15:24
jaskai think scraping someone is grounds for getting out of the car and beating the other party to death with a tire iron15:24
Hurrianthings like that usually double the time it takes to cover the same distance15:24
MohammadAGRST38h, rephrase question :p15:24
RST38h200km jam just a week ago, over snow15:24
jon_yso both ways on the highway will jam15:24
jon_yeven if the accident is one side15:25
MohammadAGHurrian, that's actually illegal here15:25
RST38hMohammadAG: the camouflage thing - don't they bake under it in the heat?15:25
MohammadAGyou can't move your car till the police arrive15:25
MohammadAGRST38h, it's worth the money15:25
MohammadAGa normal speeding ticket can be about $250-30015:25
HurrianMohammadAG: whelp. Matter of evidence and "who bumped who" thing?15:26
MohammadAGHurrian, yes15:26
MohammadAGmost people just ignore that in arab parts15:26
MohammadAGunless it's a serious accident15:26
HurrianThat's kind of the reason people still insist on not moving their perfectly functional cars here.15:26
MohammadAGbut I've seen small bumps = people lying on the ground pretending they're injured so they get insurance money15:26
HurrianMohammadAG: if only it was that easy to get insurance money here...15:27
MohammadAGRST38h, I have to go to court on the 23rd15:27
HurrianNight guys.15:27
RST38hMohammad: Another bump?15:27
MohammadAGno, 160 on a 100kmph 140km highway15:27
RST38hoh...well, it happens15:28
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MohammadAGerr, actually 142 on 9015:28
MohammadAG52kmph overspeed15:28
MohammadAGRST38h, nope, only in IL15:28
jon_yMohammadAG: speed ticketing is serious business :)15:28
MohammadAGI lost my license for a month15:28
MohammadAGand I might lose it for a year after the court session15:28
RST38hMohammad: A bit harsh, yes, but I actuall had to do community work over a similar case15:29
RST38hMohammad: In the US.15:29
MohammadAGa one time speeding ticket?15:29
RST38hMohammad: Believe it or not, yes15:29
MohammadAGwith no previous incidents?15:29
MohammadAGthat's dumb as fuck15:29
RST38hMohammad: Depends on the judge. Some of them are pretty crazy15:29
RST38hMohammad: No previous incidents.15:30
MohammadAGhow much did you overspeed?15:30
jon_yRST38h: which state?15:30
RST38hMohammad: 15-20mph15:30
MohammadAGactually there's a risk I have to do that too15:30
RST38hjon_y: MD15:30
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jaskafor 24-32kph over? thats ridiculous15:31
jon_yhmm, which stat is MD? I'm not familiar with the signs15:31
RST38hjaska: As I said, depends on the judge.15:31
RST38hjon_y: Maryland.15:31
MohammadAGI might 1) lose my license for a year 2) get a fine, about $250-300, 3) community service, 4) need to redo theoretical and/or practical exam or 5) all of them :D15:31
RST38hMohammad: With luck, it will be just #215:31
jaskahere you can lose license for atleast 1mo for 30+3kph over, but speeding fines are based on your income15:31
MohammadAGthat's what I'm hoping for actually15:32
MohammadAGI lost it for a damn month15:32
RST38hjaska: Yeah, heard that15:32
RST38hjaska: Nasty15:32
jon_yjaska: Italy?15:32
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MohammadAGI actually drove that month though15:32
MohammadAGand learned the last day that driving without a license is 3 years in jail15:32
jaskathats crazy too15:32
MohammadAGyeah, luckily I wasn't caught15:33
RST38hAt least, .IL has public transportation15:33
MohammadAGnot very easy to travel that way RST38h15:33
MohammadAGtwo major bus companies, Egged and some arab company15:33
MohammadAGEgged don't have any bus stations close to me except for about 3km15:34
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: RST38h: try speeding in Austria. When you're not austrian resident you'll stay in jail until you paid the ~1500EUR fine15:34
MohammadAG(or more)15:34
MohammadAGso you have to switch a lot of buses to get from one area to another15:34
MohammadAGunless you live in an Israeli area, then it's fine, there's a bus stop every km15:35
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jon_y1.5K fine?15:35
RST38hDoc: Ok, mental note: never rent a car in Austria or Germany15:35
jaskagerman fines are low iirc15:35
DocScrutinizer05in other european countries they "just" take your car keys and don't allow you to continue your travel15:35
jaskabut the tolerance is really low, like 4kph15:35
jon_yhow are you suppose to return the car?15:35
MohammadAGhere in Israel they were kind enough to let me continue driving for 3 days15:35
RST38hjaska:Yes but they are Germans, so I am sure they shoot at sight and let their guard dogs take care of the rest15:35
DocScrutinizer05jaska: not exactly15:36
MohammadAGthen they revoked it for a month15:36
DocScrutinizer05fines are in the €€ to €€€ range, but you lose your driver licence with >40km/h over speed limit15:36
MohammadAGhow long?15:36
jaskawell, to a finn 2-3 digits is low :)15:36
jaskaatleast if youre employed15:37
jon_yjaska: you go up to 4 figure fines?15:37
MohammadAGthe only time I heard of the police taking a car here is a Porsche driving at about 210kmph15:37
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: depends, 1 month, 3 months15:37
MohammadAGnot a damn year!15:37
jaskajon_y: friends father got 10k or so fine speeding.15:37
DocScrutinizer05not the first time15:37
jaska(relatively wealthy)15:37
jon_ythem police must be made of money now15:38
MohammadAGusing the phone while driving is $27015:38
jaskai think the highest fines have been 6 digits15:38
MohammadAGif you're at a light and it's red, and you hold the phone, you can get fined15:38
teotwakiMohammadAG: well, that camo stuff is just for show15:38
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: it's 40€ and one point here. ( points -> licence loss15:38
ShadowJKA guy living in same town as me got a 26kE fine for speeding. 87 in 60 zone15:38
DocScrutinizer058 points*15:38
MohammadAGI got pulled over once, played the "I study at an Israeli uni" card15:38
jaska60eur and points here nowadays i think15:39
MohammadAG12 points for a new driver, 36 for regular ones15:39
MohammadAGyou're a new driver for 2 years after you get your license15:39
jaskathink its if you get more than 3 fines/2years its license off15:39
teotwakiMohammadAG: here in France, they just set up specific lanes perpendicular to the highway, and catch you when you're 2 miles off.15:39
MohammadAGoh right, I forgot that I might have to start the new driver part over15:39
DocScrutinizer05jaska: maybe, I'm not sure about exact numbers15:39
jaskanot 100% sure, never been stopped or fined15:40
MohammadAG2 miles is 4km?15:40
jaska2mi = 3.2km15:40
jon_ymakes taking a bus seem a safe option15:41
MohammadAGnew driver = you can only carry 2 passengers15:41
DocScrutinizer05I learnt to love taxi for short distances. Train and airplane for longer ones15:41
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MohammadAGso if I have to repeat that, I can only carry 2 passengers for another 2 years15:41
RST38hMohammadAG: Sounds reasonable,why would you want more!15:43
MohammadAGRST38h: sometimes you have to15:43
RST38hDo drunk passengers qualify as cargo BTW?15:43
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: you beat me to that15:43
DocScrutinizer05was about to suggest loading the rest of them as cargo15:44
DocScrutinizer05wrap'em up in paper ;-D15:44
RST38hMeanwhile: German state of Schleswig-Holstein orders Facebook to allow pseudonyms15:45
jon_ydoes North Germany rulling include all of Germany?15:45
jon_yor is it like the US state wide rulling only?15:46
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MohammadAGRST38h: hah15:47
DocScrutinizer05WOOOHOOO stuff moving on the migration front (see community ML)15:48
DocScrutinizer05odd enough I got NFC who's doing what and to which purpose, but obviously something gonna be done tonight15:49
MohammadAGTalk about short notice15:50
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: depends15:53
DocScrutinizer05regarding IT and privacy issues each "state" got its own entity controlling stuff, but basically the jurisdiction is nationwide15:55
DocScrutinizer05just the judicature and executive are per state15:56
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DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] expect downtimes on all * services (except starting now+1h, due to rsyncing to new infra16:03
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: good move (mail to Ferenc)16:07
Paliwhy will not be moved?16:07
DocScrutinizer05it's not exactly infra16:08
DocScrutinizer05it's owned by Reggie so far, and hosted somewhere in USA16:08
Paliit will not be part of (or new domain/infra) now?16:08
MohammadAGDoes live on my LAN?16:08
MohammadAGCause it went down after DocScrutinizer05's notice16:09
DocScrutinizer05Pali: that's still under heavy discussion. I'm all for moving the hosting of tmo to same servers as the rest of *mo, others claim that for obscure legal reasons it has to stay in USA16:10
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Palibtw what happend with integration of single sign on for tmo too?16:10
Palito use account also for tmo login?16:11
DocScrutinizer05I'm strongly suggesting to rather drop all accounts on tmo and require users to re-register if that's needed to allow moving of tmo to EU16:11
DocScrutinizer05but unless somebody can explain to us what's the problem with moving tmo out of US and to EU, I'm not even willing to bother about that account dropping16:13
RST38hWhat obscure legal reasons?16:13
DocScrutinizer05don't ask me, ask board16:13
DocScrutinizer05seems they got a lawyer "working for them" for free16:14
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DocScrutinizer05this judgement seems actually like based on "free work" to me16:15
DocScrutinizer05as in "well, I didn't look into what tmo actually is or which privacy or other data is in it, or which license applies to such data. I just can say there are generally possible issues with moving a server from US to EU"16:16
DocScrutinizer05that's exactly a statement I'd expect from a lawyer working "for free"16:16
DocScrutinizer05me and jaffa both asked wtf is the actual particular problem with tmo - no answer16:17
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DocScrutinizer05btw for all I understand about laws and stuff, it'd be Reggie who would "get sued" for not handling that alleged problematic data in a way not conforming the copyright policy he placed on his forum, when he hands that data to community (= board or council). I can't see any law the recipient of that database would break in receiving it16:21
DocScrutinizer05and Reggie seems has no such concerns, not at all16:21
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ShadowJKI'd suspect it has more to do with data privacy acts16:22
ShadowJKand the impressum and records' keeping stuff16:22
DocScrutinizer05there is no privacy data on tmo (except maybe PM)16:23
ShadowJKand let's not forget the cookie laws if it was to be moved to UK :P16:23
RST38hOf course there is16:23
RST38hThere is amapping from posts to usernames and fromusernames to emails16:23
ShadowJKEverything the user enters when registering is "privacy data"16:23
DocScrutinizer05and how am I concerned about that when I receive that data from Reggie and start to host tmo on my own server?16:24
RST38hGet a lawyer!16:24
ShadowJKafaik, you need a list of the nature of that user data that you are storing, and the reason why you are storing it, and what use you will make of it16:24
* RST38h laughs satanically16:24
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DocScrutinizer05need for whom?16:25
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DocScrutinizer05who's going to ask me about that list?16:25
DocScrutinizer05and even when somebody asks me, I'll just put up such list and happily hand it to him16:25
ShadowJKYou're legally required to have such a document16:26
DocScrutinizer05where's the problem?16:26
DocScrutinizer05says who?16:26
ShadowJKit's the law16:26
DocScrutinizer05§ please!16:27
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DocScrutinizer05I never heard about any forum owner who got problems with any official document he needed to be allowed to run his forum16:27
ShadowJKIt's not specific to forums16:28
DocScrutinizer05oooh, so everybody owning a server needs such document or what?16:28
DocScrutinizer05sorry, just entering sarcasm mode. No offense16:28
* DocScrutinizer05 tries to chill16:29
ShadowJKNo, everyone maintaining a customer database16:29
DocScrutinizer05define customer16:29
ShadowJKAnyone using your services16:29
fluxis it really a big deal to create such a document?16:29
DocScrutinizer05dang, I'm going to shut down immediately16:30
ShadowJKYou don't have a customer database?16:30
DocScrutinizer05sure I have16:30
DocScrutinizer05there are 9 accounts on that server, there are syslogs and whatnot16:31
DocScrutinizer05and I don't know who the F will issue such magical document for me16:31
ShadowJKI know this applies to webshops and the like, but whether it also extends to community services like forums I don't know :)16:32
DocScrutinizer05I know anybody in EU can require from any entity that stores parsonalized data about that individula to disclose them to that individula16:32
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: I know anybody in EU can require from any entity that stores parsonalized data about that individual to disclose them to that individual16:33
DocScrutinizer05but I never heard of any official document you'd need to run a webshop or whatever16:33
DocScrutinizer05the less for running a forum16:33
ShadowJKIt might be part of that same that disclosure thing you mentioned16:34
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: but on the other hand you can go ~+10 in austria and almost nobody cares16:34
DocScrutinizer05and no, I'm NOT going to ask 20 lawyers until I find one who wants to earn a buck and tells me some random BS about such issue16:34
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: sorry?16:35
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: regarding speeding and jail16:35
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: yep, if I'm storing personalized data, I have to tell which data this is, and even grant access or even deletion of such data to the "owner", the individual that such data is about16:36
DocScrutinizer05I have absolutely zero problems with that in tmo context16:37
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DocScrutinizer05and actually we already moved the problem from "it's not allowed to transfer a US located server to a EU located hosting" to "whoever will run tmo in the future has to fulfill some requirements specific to the country the server is located at, and board seems unwilling to deal with such requirements of EU for tmo migration"16:41
DocScrutinizer05well, I probably could accept such notion. I can't accept telling me "it can't be done since there are laws forbidding it"16:43
ShadowJKAnyways, there's lots of cheap hosting in the US, and in the long run we'd probably want to be able to run everything in random places anyway16:43
DocScrutinizer05we want to run everything in ONE location16:43
DocScrutinizer05not on the long run, but as soon as possible16:43
DocScrutinizer05to minimize cost and administrative overhead16:44
DocScrutinizer05and obviously the main part of *mo hosting is and will stay in EU, and if there are issues to move US based servers to EU, there are definitely MORE issues for the opposite direction16:45
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ShadowJKI'm thinking of a setup where someone would be willing to donate spare bandwidth and/or cpu+ram on some server they own. Stuff like fileserving and autobuilders seem the easiest to make portable16:45
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DocScrutinizer05we're not even thinking of stuff like that right now16:46
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DocScrutinizer05you don't move a whole server and domain according to the month's best offer hosting16:47
ShadowJKIt's not about moving16:47
DocScrutinizer05then about what is it?16:47
DocScrutinizer05>>we'd probably want to be able to run everything in random places anyway<<16:48
* Luke-Jr ponders how little someone's time would need to be worth, to justify moving to the monthly cheapest server16:48
ShadowJKYou have a frontend that delegates downloads or compilation requests to available machines (or VMs) in a pool, instead of having a fixed set of machines in the pool, you have a dynamic set, and with the ability to not have them all in one place, the frontend's job becomes to see which ones are available for service, and use those16:49
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ShadowJKUsed to do this with a pre-packaged tarball of scripts and software. Untar, fire off the setup script and it compiled (in user's home dir) the software, synced data with master, and then checked in with master and assumed its role of mysql cache, fileserver, web server or whatever16:52
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ShadowJKtoday with VMs, it would be even easier and faster to setup16:52
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DocScrutinizer05sure, but that's absolutely not on our todo list right now17:05
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DocScrutinizer05and it has a very interesting aspect regarding that nonsensical servar location question: where is such a cloud based service actually located? basically still where the frontend sits, no?17:10
DocScrutinizer05so the only 'solution' for tmo I could see in such a concept was to actually run the heavy stuff in a VM on the new EU based *mo infra, but keep a pro forma frontend in the USA to make it "look like" we're hosting tmo there17:13
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DocScrutinizer05doesn't feel right17:14
DocScrutinizer05anyway who's actually legally responsible for a server? the one who runs the hardware, the one who pays for it, or the admin in chief?17:17
DocScrutinizer05if the latter, the solution is easy: board doesn't do admin of tmo, and finds someone willing to take responsibility17:17
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DocScrutinizer05actually it seems they already did17:19
DocScrutinizer05OHNOES, it's meeeeee! :-S17:19
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DocScrutinizer05is any of the maemo services already down?17:53
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: and once the data is in the EU, we just silently move the frontend there?18:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I don't see any sense in such a procedure18:03
DocScrutinizer05see my last 3 posts above18:04
kerioto reduce strain on the whole thing18:06
DocScrutinizer05there is no strain18:06
keriooh, http redirects18:07
DocScrutinizer05honestly this idea is mere academic, we got no manpower to do such virtualization and cloud based hosting, and there's no obvious advantage in implementing it right now. And the problems with migration of whole *mo are not targeted by it either.18:09
JaffaRegarding the conversation a couple of hours ago, Data Protection Act doesn't apply IIRC: it's either not customer data (because it's not particularly personally identifiable) or because it's just an address book18:16
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: RST38h: ^18:16
JaffaHowever, all of the stuff about that would apply to the existing Garage accounts which Nemein are already hosting. So, I don't see why *moving* the TMO data would be an issue beyond any Data Protection stuff that is already applicable (or not)18:16
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DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: indeed, but it seems in board is a severe dislike of touching the whole tmo consolidation topic, see the last mail on ML which I forwarded since I don't think such stuff can sanely be handled "behind the walls"18:34
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DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: what became of your query about the reasons for that? Seems nobody answered your questions either. Or did they answer in private as with that last mail for me?18:36
DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: anyway we all are only mere mortals, not "lawyer working for free"18:37
DocScrutinizer05so it doesn't matter what we think and what we ask18:37
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spoofyHello :) I need an advice - Which battery will be better? ( links) this one > < tested by dr_frost_dk ( or this one > 1550mAh?18:41
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: No reply, and saw the one you posted.18:42
internetishardAfter fmms runs my connection stays on MMS, shouldn't it change back to internet connection?18:42
spoofyI wanna hear some opinion :)18:42
kerioi thought fmms used a separate connection18:43
DocScrutinizer05spoofy: nfc18:43
spoofyDocScrutinizer05: why?18:46
ShadowJKspoofy; I would trust dr_frost_dk18:46
DocScrutinizer05spoofy: because I haven't tested either of both18:46
spoofyShadowJK: both are same manufacturer18:46
spoofyakku-king is newer18:47
DocScrutinizer05so what's the problem?18:47
DocScrutinizer05is this a pun?18:47
spoofyI don't know. I want to hear some opinion18:47
DocScrutinizer05what's "Akku"?18:48
DocScrutinizer05except the german word for rechargable battery18:48
spoofyakku is the name of manufacturer18:48
spoofyI think..18:49
DocScrutinizer05no way18:49
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infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer5120:53
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_rdHi, do I need to do something to keep the network up in a python command line application, which does socket communication.23:34
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kerio_rd: huh?23:42
kerio_rd: which application? which sockets?23:42
keriowhy aren't you using twisted already?23:42
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_rdkerio: what is twisted?23:51
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_rdI write my own small app.23:51
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kerio_rd: is it async?23:53
keriodoes it handle EAGAIN?23:56
_rdnothing sophisticated23:56
keriooh, it's not actually async23:57
_rdI think I need something continuously using the network, such as jabber to make it work reasonably reliably23:57
_rdwhat you cannot see in the script, there is a wrapper script for this script, basically calling it again, when it exits.23:58
_rdI am sure there is a lot of room for improvement in this script23:59
_rd...and feedback is more than welcome :-)23:59

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