IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-12-16

Palikerio, are you using my new battery applet?00:01
lnxmenI will try it in car - may will be better00:01
kerioPali: yes00:01
DocScrutinizer05wtf jacekowski! clean that spam on your blog00:01
Palikerio, and no problems?00:01
kerionot that i can think of00:01
Palibecause I found two bugs (stopped bme and loaded kernel modules without new hald-addon-bme)00:01
Luke-JrPali: what is bsdiff? better than xdelta3?00:01
kerioapart for the unnecessary load during startup00:02
keriobecause of the silly dpkg check :<00:02
kerioPali: i wouldn't know about that, i have the whole replacement pack installed00:02
Pali >>> bsdiff routinely produces binary patches 50-80% smaller than those produced by Xdelta <<<00:02
PaliLuke-Jr, but I never used that00:03
* Luke-Jr wonders if he can convert xdelta patches00:03
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PaliI only know that bsdiff/bspatch exists00:03
Palikerio, when hald-addon-bme is not used, applet report battery low when charging00:04
Paliand there is some race condition (due to reports from hal) that charging/discharging detection is not handled correctly00:04
Paliseems that both bugs are fixed, I will push new version to cssu-devel00:05
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, I want maemo wiki! Do you know any ETA?00:08
Paliwho should be spammed for that?00:08
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Paliping ShadowJK00:10
lnxmenthank you for your help00:12
lnxmenI'm gonna go to gym... Goodbye my masters00:13
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: (wiki) sorry, seems they won't do anything about it, since in a few weeks it's not their problem anymore00:26
DocScrutinizer05"here, we fsckd it up fubar, now you can take it"00:26
PaliDocScrutinizer05, do you know current situation?00:26
Paliwill be migrated?00:27
Palior nokia power off servers and it will be end?00:27
Palior has soembody access to servers (needed for backup/migrate to another server)?00:27
keriomore importantly, who's going to pay for it from jan 1st onwards?00:28
Paliand what will happen with garage?00:30
Paliand all projects?00:30
Palinote that only git repositories was backed up to gitorious...00:30
keriois going to be ok?00:31 not working due to expired GPG key...00:31
kerioPali: it still works00:31
Palibut HAM (official SW) refuse to use it00:31
* kerio only ever uses apt00:32
Paliso links from OVI store not working00:32
Paliwhich means that OVI store on Nokia n900 not working anymore00:32
Palidue to expired gpg key...00:32
keriois there someone who actually uses ovi store? :O00:33
PaliI do not know...00:33
kerioovi store, aka the website where you download angry birds00:35
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freddddiiiiiGoogle shutdown Exchange service.03:54
freddddiiiiiWhat do?03:54
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Luke-Jrfreddddiiiii: learn your lesson not to depend on others for your service?04:06
freddddiiiiiLuke-Jr, can you be a bit more specific?04:08
jon_yhe means run your own server, get an NX domain04:09
freddddiiiiiAre you implying every owner is geek enough and interested enough to run and manage their own server?04:09
jon_yyou better be if you hope to use email one day :)04:10
jon_yor just stick to using facebook chat04:10
freddddiiiiiNot interested to cash out more than one hundred euros on cash every year.04:10
freddddiiiiiTo sync stuff, where as it can be obtained for free.04:10
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freddddiiiiiIs there no CardDev solution available for the N900?04:11
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jon_ysorry, never used that04:12
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gregoafreemangordon: syncevolution speaks caldav and carddav04:13
Luke-Jrfreemangordon: so why are you using Exchange garbage? ;)04:15
gregoagnarf, this freddddiiiii left, and now Luke-Jr and me hilight poor fmg04:17
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DocScrutinizer05one thing's for sure: there is no such thing like "something for free"08:51
DocScrutinizer05(([2012-12-16 03:10:56] <freddddiiiii> To sync stuff, where as it can be obtained for free.))08:51
DocScrutinizer05you always pay, just currency changes08:52
DocScrutinizer05the two most common currencies in age of internet are attention and data about user08:53
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DocScrutinizer05when a "free" service offer doesn't "pay" anymore - like syncing services maybe don't bring much new address data and also don't yield a way to gain the "customer's" attention like a webservice would - they'll eventually get discontinued09:17
DocScrutinizer05mail providers like never get tired to lure their customers into a contract for "pro-mail", and of course they send SPAM that passes every of their spamfilters09:20
DocScrutinizer05plus they can analyze each and every transferred mail, even when they say they don't do that09:21
DocScrutinizer05a sync service doesn't pay back that nicely, in that regard09:22
DocScrutinizer05google documents - yeah, great for data mining. Syncing contacts and appointments? not so much, pretty meaningless data for any metrics of a big business09:24
DocScrutinizer05location aware services: excellent.  map&routing with AGPS (supl) pretty nice.  map with onboard routing and non-A (non-supl) GPS: boring09:28
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DocScrutinizer05google glass: make users pay money for paying attention and paying with their data. Brilliant09:31
Luke-Jreh? Google Glass isn't just hardware?09:31
DocScrutinizer05nah, it's a concept09:31
DocScrutinizer05100% location aware services09:31
DocScrutinizer05meh 1000%09:32
DocScrutinizer05amazon kindle et al is another nice concept: make users pay more for getting less and losing that little that they get way sooner than they'd lose a paper book09:35
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DocScrutinizer05anyway get it: not a single company on this earth (except maybe Butan Gvmt) has "happy customer" as their main business goal09:39
* DocScrutinizer05 hums "Sheep" of Pink Floyd09:41
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DocScrutinizer05honestly sorry, I shouldn't paste a single soung out of a concept album. So:
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: honestly sorry, I shouldn't paste a single song out of a concept album. So:
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* DocScrutinizer05 figures RST38h posting that citation including Bhutan Gvmt in some random other channel ;-)10:33
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kerioanother example of the fuckedupness of maemo's sudo12:44
kerioit'll happily ask for a password when there's no tty, thus not enabling noecho12:44
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: we need a new sudo12:45
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: steps to reproduce: ssh n900 sudo ls12:47
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DocScrutinizer05not that this makes any sense to me12:52
DocScrutinizer05sudo ls won't work anyway12:52
DocScrutinizer05and ssh access to my N900 is generally root12:52
keriowell, your n900 is seriously weird12:53
kerioadmittedly, it's the default configuration12:53
DocScrutinizer05err wait, sudo ls might work, but asks for password12:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: that's the point12:54
kerioit asks for the password, and the password is not hidden as you type it12:54
DocScrutinizer05locally it is12:54
DocScrutinizer05via ssh prolly not12:54
kerioyep, that's the point12:55
DocScrutinizer05since it's basically not meant to get used that way12:55
keriotry doing the same thing with a real linux system12:55
kerio"sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified"12:55
Luke-Jrtry with ssh -t12:55
kerioLuke-Jr: i know12:55
Luke-JrI know you know.12:55
kerioi know you know i know12:56
kerioi didn't know you knew i knew12:56
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: "sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified" means you can't enter password, since askpass wouldn't work via ssh13:00
kerioexactly, *you can't enter the password*13:00
keriowhich is the sensible behaviour13:00
DocScrutinizer05we found maemo sudo doesn't support askpass (among other nice stuff that would suggest to get a newer version, to get rid of update-sudoers for example)13:01
DocScrutinizer05a few months ago13:01
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DocScrutinizer05actiually a few years ago13:02
kerio[2005-11-08] Sudo version 1.6.8p12 released.13:02
DocScrutinizer05I still wonder how to easily fix that HAM / sudo apt-worker fsckup13:05
DocScrutinizer05so that starting HAM would ask for a password, and no cheap trickery on xterm will offer a workaround via apt-worker or starting HAM-real or sending some freaky dbus message13:06
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DocScrutinizer05hell, even my had the concept of a SIM PIN and a device PIN13:07
DocScrutinizer05so you could set up the phone so it allows only speeddial calls or addressbook calls, and you'd need the device PIN to change that13:08
DocScrutinizer05ideal for setting up the phone for your kids13:09
DocScrutinizer05N900 you can't set up for your kids13:09
DocScrutinizer05unlike any other linux system13:09
Paliat least because sudo gainroot working without password13:10
keriowell, you can just remove the HAM entries in sudoers(.d)13:10
kerioPali: sudo gainroot requires RD mode by default13:11
kerioit's that rootsh abomination that changes it to always work13:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you can't set the n900 up for your kids because crypt() sucks and it's easily reversed13:11
DocScrutinizer05Pali: not on my N90013:12
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you still made an unnatural modification to /sbin/gainroot13:12
Paliso go to push fixed package to extras-devel!13:12
keriowhich, by the way, goes against the dpkg standards13:13
Paliin extras-devel is still bad sudo gainroot13:13
DocScrutinizer05kerio: blame your doc for making unhealthy surgery to that cancer13:13
DocScrutinizer05kerio: and don't get me started which standards /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo violates13:16
PaliDocScrutinizer05, which value should bq2415x_charger.ko use as default for charge_current and termination_current?13:16
kerioDocScrutinizer05: why?13:16
DocScrutinizer05Pali: termination_current should be ~80..100mA13:17
DocScrutinizer05I know that's a lot, but we need that to compensate for system current usage on top of charging current13:18
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DocScrutinizer05charge_current is what? max battery charging current?13:19
PaliDocScrutinizer05, BME using 100mA for wallcharger and 150mA for usb. using 150mA13:19
DocScrutinizer05Pali: makes sense since with USB it always eats 60mA for musb-core alone. But it also does that when on fastcharger, since PR1.2(?) kernel13:21
PaliDocScrutinizer05, charge_current means Charge current sense voltage, register 0x04, bits 4-713:21
DocScrutinizer05for MAX current?13:21
DocScrutinizer05alias for the ConstantCurrent phase of charging?13:22
DocScrutinizer05so it should be like 66% C, aka 800mA13:22
DocScrutinizer05100% is max for some battery cells, but it wears them out rather quickly13:23
DocScrutinizer05C is Capacity13:23
DocScrutinizer05== 1320mAh which means 100 is 1320mA13:23
Palinot max current limit (that is 500mA for usb and unlimited for wallcharger)13:23
DocScrutinizer05== 1320mAh which means 100% C is 1320mA13:24
DocScrutinizer05that's USB current limit, not cell charging ConstantCurrent "limit"13:24
PaliBME set 550-650mA for wallcharger and 950 for usb. set 950mA.13:24
DocScrutinizer05now THAT make no sense at all13:25
DocScrutinizer05maybe BME sets USB curlim to 550mA (should be 500mA) for *USB*, and 950mA for fastcharger13:26 is known to violate charging requirements for USB-hosts13:26
Palisee: and look for register 0x04, bits 4-613:27
DocScrutinizer05basically your bq2415x_charger.ko should start with USB curlim = 100mA, then switch to 950mA when fastcharger detected, and to 500mA after successful ENUM with USB-host13:28
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: I spent literally weeks of my life reading this datasheet13:29
Palithat is current limit and that already doing13:29
DocScrutinizer05so I'm a bit reluctant to open it again and find the relevant parts13:29
Palibut i'm asking about charge current sense13:29
Palipage 3013:29
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is the bupbat recovery 100mA for that reason?13:29
DocScrutinizer05charge current sense is for ConstantCurrent phase of CCCV, and limits max current into cell for charging13:30
DocScrutinizer05it mustn't be >0.7C13:30
Palikerio, current limit can be set to one value: 100, 500, 800, unlimited13:30
DocScrutinizer05so see my comments above13:30
DocScrutinizer05nope, that's USB curlim afaik13:31
DocScrutinizer05kerio: yep13:31
keriosounds like a crappy reason :s13:31
keriofucking usb certification13:31
DocScrutinizer05but emergency charging detects fastcharger in HW13:32
DocScrutinizer05and switches to unlimited then13:32
keriobut only for half an hour13:32
DocScrutinizer05the reason why we got 1707 PHY13:32
DocScrutinizer05kerio: 30min are enough to get the system into bootable state13:32
kerionot enough to reflash13:33
DocScrutinizer05that's a completely different topic13:33
DocScrutinizer05it's not enough to reflash since NOLO decides it's not enough13:34
kerioit's not enough to boot from ram either, right?13:34
DocScrutinizer05and instead of doing proper charging itself, NOLO boots up a possibly borked linux to do the charging there. Now THAT is brainfuck13:34
keriothankfully i've got rescueOS installed on-device to charge13:34
Palibtw, nolo has support for bq2415x13:35
DocScrutinizer05it's actually enough to "boot from RAM"13:35
Palisee console dump from nolo13:35
keriobut nolo won't let you enter flashing mode?13:35
DocScrutinizer05Pali: it has support, but doesn't dare to charge sufficiently to allow flashing13:35
DocScrutinizer05kerio: exactly13:36
keriooh well, uboot to the rescue13:36
keriocharge with emergency charging a bit, then boot from uSD or whatever into something with proper charging13:36
DocScrutinizer05why not let uBoot do the charging business itself?13:37
keriobecause uboot can't do that right now13:37
DocScrutinizer05porting to uBoot script should be simple as milk13:37
Palibecause X-Loader cannot start uboot13:37
Paliwe still need nolo13:37
keriowhat i said is actually doable at the moment13:37
Paliporting to uboot is not really hard13:38
kerioPali: nolo will charge enough to load uboot13:38
Palibut if you do not have uboot??13:38
DocScrutinizer05and uBoot easily can charge13:38
kerioPali: then you're fucked, duh13:38
kerios/'re fucked/use a different charger/13:38
infobotkerio meant: Pali: then youuse a different charger, duh13:38
keriodammit spaces13:38
Palibtw, usb boot (aka cold-flashing) working also on totaly empty battery13:38
DocScrutinizer05then your only chance is to 'coldflash' a patched NOLO to RAM13:38
Paliand then NOLO show blinking USB flashing icon13:39
Paliand no usb device is found...13:39
DocScrutinizer05bbl o/13:40
Paliseems like NOLO tried to enable flashing but not enought power for something... (maybe it already booted cmt??)13:40
Paliso we need uboot which can be bootable from 2nd x-loader13:40
kerioPali: we could just patch uboot so that it doesn't require a particular charge level to flash13:41
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Palikerio, problem is that uboot started from x-loader not working...13:41
Paliand I do not know why13:41
Paliin qemu it freeze13:42
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, so which value use as default for charge current sense? valid are: 550, 650, 750, 850 or 950 mA?13:44
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: btw charge current possible settings: 550 + 400 + 200 + 10013:54
ShadowJKcharge current sense?13:54
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ShadowJKafaik bme usually does 95013:54
DocScrutinizer05a tad high13:54
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DocScrutinizer05though it's incl system13:54
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DocScrutinizer05so 950 might be ok13:55
ShadowJKnah it's approximatelu .7C excl system13:55
Pali[12:24:49] <Pali> BME set 550-650mA for wallcharger and 950 for usb. set 950mA.13:55
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: exactly what I said13:55
ShadowJKI've seen bme set 950 on wall13:55
Paliok, then I set default value to 950 too13:55
ShadowJKBut, bme also has some logic that steps down current if it gets undervolt error from 2415013:56
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-16 12:25:21] <DocScrutinizer05> now THAT make no sense at all13:56
DocScrutinizer05[2012-12-16 12:26:05] <DocScrutinizer05> maybe BME sets USB curlim to 550mA (should be 500mA) for *USB*, and 950mA for fastcharger13:56
ShadowJKinput limit can be set to 100, 500, 800 or unlimited13:56
Paliok, and for termination current? 100 or 150mA?13:57
ShadowJKwith pk I'd use 5013:57
ShadowJKon usb charging I'd use 15013:57
ShadowJK(due to extra load from usb)13:58
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DocScrutinizer05Reg01-B7:6  00-USB host with 100-mA current limit, 01-USB host with 500-mA current limit, 10-USB host/charger with 800-mA current limit, 11-No input current limit (default 00)13:59
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's about *defaults*14:03
DocScrutinizer05so i'd go for 150 rather than 5014:03
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DocScrutinizer05after all "keep backlight on while charging" isn't exactly an unusual config option14:04
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DocScrutinizer05s/extra load from usb/extra load by musb-core/14:05
* kerio always locks14:05
Lava_Crofti always have it on14:06
Lava_Croftunless im sleeping orso14:06
Lava_Croftn900 makes for a rather overpowered shower radio14:06
DocScrutinizer05kerio: so what do we do with your staement "I alsways lock"? count you in to the crowd we don't talk about right here?14:07
DocScrutinizer05look, Lava_Croft is already one user that actually *is* using this option, so it doesn't matter if you lock or not14:08
* kerio shakes his fist at Lava_Croft 14:08
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: you again fell for your very usual misconception: defaults are not to meet your preferences but to be the most universal least restricting and savest choice14:10
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DocScrutinizer05if you don't like them you're free to change them14:11
DocScrutinizer05that's why they're called defaults and not "hard coded optimum values"14:11
keriobut the gnome devs told me that they're the same!14:13
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DocScrutinizer05the same what? also trolls?14:14
keriodefaults and hard coded "optimum" values :P14:15
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DocScrutinizer05oooh, yes they're *absolutely* right on that... for their own s***t14:18
DocScrutinizer05though, it a secret they don't usually like to reveil: they learnt that from windows14:20
DocScrutinizer05like they learnt from windows to have a separate program for cat'ing files in /etc, and one for files in /home, and one for files in /var14:22
DocScrutinizer05one paint program for green background pictures, one for red background14:22
DocScrutinizer05one that allows to paint and save to /home/user/acmepaint.png [sic!] and one that allows to paint and then resize to US-letter format and print14:23
* DocScrutinizer05 makes a mental post-it note to check if gnomevfs been invented by Lennart14:25
DocScrutinizer05still taking bets14:26
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DocScrutinizer05LOL, actually nope, he's not even in favor for gnomevfs:
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kerio>why don't we use POSIX14:44
keriofor fuck's sake lennart14:44
DocScrutinizer05>>Also, this way we can escape the "abstraction trap". Let's KDE play the abstraction game, maybe they'll grow up eventually and learn that abstracting abstracted abstraction layers is child's play.<< :-D14:45
DocScrutinizer05^^^this article is so abolutely non-poettering, and gnomevfs actuall so much *is* poettering... My world is shaking14:46
kerioaren't you a KDE user?14:50
kerioKIO does that too14:50
DocScrutinizer05I know, and I pretty much hate it14:50
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ShadowJKI think the "ideal" would be to adjust termination current depending on the situation15:06
ShadowJKKdevfs and gnomevfs suck, plan9 is the way15:07
keriowe need a h-d port for plan 915:08
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, do you know what happen with after Dec 31?15:16
Paliwill be migrated?15:16
Pali100% ?15:16
DocScrutinizer05if Nokia/Nemein finally follows up on handing-over task15:16
Paliwho will do migration? will you have admin rights for or will nokia/nemein copy data to new servers?15:17
Paliand what will be migrated? full * domain with subdomains?15:18
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: (adjusting termination current) then we don't need to use termination current at all, and revert to reading true battery current from bq27200 and stop charging when it trips arbitrary levels set on the charger.ko sysfs for it15:19
Palior should be backup other something??15:19
DocScrutinizer05Pali: the plan is that Nokia transfers complete * admin-c plus content resp root access to board15:20
Paliso you have 3/4 days for it...15:21
Palibtw, what happened with maemo OBS?15:22
DocScrutinizer05alas right now it seems (I say 'it seems' since I got all that second hand from board members) that Nokia decided to instruct Nemein to move the servers to some new property hardware that Nemein is about to buy and colocate-host $anywhere, and Nemein shall do that migration to that new hw, and eventually hand board the access credentials15:22
DocScrutinizer05and no answer from anybody of Nokia7Nemein regarding what's state of that process, not to think about discussing it to find better more affordable more 'sane' alternatives15:24
DocScrutinizer05seems Nokia is willing to keep 'their' servers running for another 1 or 2 months15:25
DocScrutinizer05which doesn't exactly apply for tmo, where Nokia stops funding on 2013-01-0115:25
Paliso what will happen with TMO?15:27
DocScrutinizer05basically Nokia does what they always did: shut up and don't say a word, meh a syllable, until eventually they 'code-drop' throw the whole 'blob' over the wall, "take it or leave it"15:28
DocScrutinizer05for tmo there's a hefty discussion whether to pay Reggie another month of server hosting, so we could establish something decent well thought, or move it to a vserver for 12EUR per month, or move it to a decent dedicated server that would suffice to host *.maemo.orh as well eventually15:29
DocScrutinizer05the estimations for the task of setting up a new host with vBulletin and move tmo over to there already vary between "meh, 2 hours at most" and "don't hope for any non-practicing casual admin doing that during one full weekend, including setup of proper mailing and all"15:32
DocScrutinizer05those who think the task can be done in 2 hours favour the 12EUR interim server approach15:33
DocScrutinizer05I think we should pay Reggie another month and stop acting in panic mode and rather accept we don't get stuff accomplished til new year, and already start on the more "long-term" (as in: 6 weeks isntead <2 weeks) migration job15:34
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Palinew kernel-power build is here:
Palikerio ^^^15:36
Paliit should be final v5215:36
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kerioPali: have you "fixed" profiled yet, btw?16:01
Palikerio, in git16:01
DocScrutinizer05Pali: my plans were to get a dedicated server today and use that to "donate" it to But right now I'm busy to check if somebody rooted my known cloud7 box a few days back16:05
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: that would be bad!16:07
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: when you say move to a single server, do you mean a single dedicated server hosting our VMs, or actually putting every service on the same box?16:19
keriobecause i wouldn't want the autobuilder together with the other things16:19
DocScrutinizer05kerio: could you deliver better arguments that "I wouldn't want"?16:20
DocScrutinizer05(not saying that I'm not a friend of VM)16:21
keriocompiling is an heavy task, and shoving it in a limited VM is easier than setting up the proper ulimits for every build16:21
keriobuilding stuff could slow down everything else16:21
DocScrutinizer05renice 10 autobuilder16:22
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keriodoesn't really stop it from consuming ungodly amounts of ram16:23
ShadowJKI'd worry more about the wiki and forums, those things tend to be heavy16:23
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: so what's the benefit regarding RAM usage then, when putting it into a VM?16:24
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's much easier to cap it16:24
kerioin fact, you *have* to cap it16:24
DocScrutinizer05you can't 'cap' RAM usage16:24
keriothe VM has a limited amount of RAM16:25
DocScrutinizer05unless you accept sth like OOM killing your process16:25
DocScrutinizer05right, it has a limited amount of simulated RAM, and a simulated swap for anything that needs more than that16:26
ShadowJKjust uninstall the c++ compiler, memory use goes down with plain C ;)16:26
kerioShadowJK: if only16:27
DocScrutinizer05and in the end everything will eventually end in real swap, with real IO on a real disk, no matter how many virtualization levels in between16:27
DocScrutinizer05or rather, a real 'file'16:28
PaliDocScrutinizer05, do we know where is problem in wiki?16:28
Palidatabase corrupted or uncompatible script in mediawiki?16:28
DocScrutinizer05they did an update to the wiki software, and their 'proprietary' mudules are incompatible to that new version16:29
DocScrutinizer05probably single signon plugin16:29
Paliso after will be transferred, can we modify & fix that module?16:29
DocScrutinizer05let's hope we can, since I'm rather sure they won't fix it before16:30
DocScrutinizer05X-Fade doesn't answer to any requests for sharing sourcecode of those plugins/modules, nor for ETA of fix or status of work on a fix, nor anything else16:31
kerioPali: hmm, fiasco-update-image-ask didn't identify the currently-flashed uboot+kp16:32
Paliand what it shown?16:32
DocScrutinizer05kerio: basically I think your approach is similar to mine, just liked to play avocado salsa diaboli16:32
Palihm, and what is here?
DocScrutinizer05might be parts of the sourcecode we need to fix, though I'm not sure since we have no access to the servers to get decent diagnostic output of what's going haywire16:34
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keriomeh, it's not going to be *that* hard to fix, mediawiki is opensource16:34
* kerio understates16:34
kerioPali: flashed kp52-latest, it booted16:35
PaliI'd like to use some wiki which has stored data in git :-)16:36
kerioPali: hostdevice2 is new in the latest KP, right?16:38
Paliit is hint for last usbmode16:38
kerioPali: it still tries low before going to high :(16:40
Paliyes, it must16:40
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, there is something too:
DocScrutinizer05Pali: fine, alas I have not the competence nor the time to check what it is and whether it's helping our issue.16:52
DocScrutinizer05Pali: suggestion: go to wiki, try to edit a page, see what "diagnostic" crap output you get, and maybe you can conclude from that which sourcecode we actually have to fix16:54
Palialready tried16:55
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ...since that's exactly as much info as I got16:55
Palioutput is useless:
DocScrutinizer05I know16:55
Paliit run some hook16:55
Paliand backtrace from hook is missing16:56
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DocScrutinizer05anybody running a centOS here?17:07
AoyagiOur office server does...17:07
* Aoyagi isn't in the office17:07
AoyagiOr have remote access.17:08
kerioi used to have an EC2 box, those run centOS17:09
DocScrutinizer05would you happen to know if it's normal for centOS to have process 1 .. 5, then pid 10 kthread, 14 kblockd/0, 15 kacpid, the huge gap until next PID is 96 cqueue/0 ?17:10
keriohm, never noticed that17:11
keriobut it's not something that i would've necessarily paid attention to17:11
DocScrutinizer05same here17:11
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DocScrutinizer05until I got concerned about mysql, php, python, httpd whatnot else segfaulting like mad a few days ago17:12
DocScrutinizer05which finally resulted in whole machine going offline for 15 min17:12
DocScrutinizer05incl znc17:12
DocScrutinizer05and munin17:12
kerioif you find yourself considering the possibility that someone untrusted got root, you probably need to reinstall it17:13
DocScrutinizer05I'd hardly accomplish that17:13
DocScrutinizer05it's a vserver17:13
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kerioDocScrutinizer: still the weird PID distribution?17:28
lufI'm running  a CentOS.17:33
lufDocScrutinizer05: what version of centos?17:35
lufI naver paid attention. I see no such hole and ktrheaded has PID 217:37
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DocScrutinizer05luf: top output:17:39
DocScrutinizer05  167 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.01 kswapd017:39
DocScrutinizer05luf: how to check versionß17:39
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lufcat /proc/redhat-release17:40
DocScrutinizer05cat: /proc/redhat-release: No such file or directory17:40
lufDocScrutinizer05: I have running several active processes ...17:41
lufSorry /etc/ of course :D17:42
lufcat /etc/redhat-release17:42
DocScrutinizer05CentOS release 5.8 (Final)17:42
lufHmm I have 6.3 ...17:43
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qwazixfreemangordon, fixed rawcam on it's way to devel, thanks a lot.18:20
freemangordonqwazix: great18:20
freemangordonwhat was the problem18:20
qwazixstupidness :) I forgot to run setOverlay to give my derived QApplication access to the overlay widget18:21
qwazixso I was calling the destructor on an empty pointer18:21
qwazixthus the segfault...18:22
freemangordonyeah, I see18:22
qwazixnow time to investigate why it doesn't launch on harmattan pr1.2 (and only that)18:23
freemangordondoes that fiz camera-ui?18:23
qwazixretroactively. I tried first with the broken rawcam, camera-ui crashed, fixed it, closed it normally and camera-ui words18:24
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vi_freemangordon: ping18:52
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freemangordonvi_: pong18:52
vi_have you RE tklock?18:53
freemangordonvi_: yes18:53
freemangordonpowerkeymenu too18:53
vi_you are incredible.18:53
freemangordonI know :P18:53
freemangordonthough tklock has a small glitch, but I don;t have time to fix it18:54
freemangordonwill do it ofc18:54
keriowell, it wasn't really a RE, it was a complete rewrite18:54
keriowhich is even better :D18:54
freemangordonkerio: tklock was RE18:54
freemangordonpowerkeymenu is a rewrite, correct18:54
vi_does that mean it is now theoretically possible to remove the slide to unlock screen and just have double power button press to unlock?18:55
freemangordonkerio: BTW apt-get install mp-fremante-generic-pr gave "missing packages"18:55
freemangordonvi_: in theory - yes18:55
keriofreemangordon: after an apt-get update?18:57
freemangordonkerio: after apt-get update/upgrade, reboot,  apt-get install mp-fremante-generic-pr18:58
freemangordononly stock repos enabled18:58
keriowhich packages are missing?18:58
freemangordonhowever, i'll have the device in my hands in an hour or so, it was a lady on the other side of the skype chat, so I am not aware of the details :D18:59
freemangordonI am just wondering if repos are FUBAR18:59
freemangordonvi_: if you find some GTK guy, something similar to harm lock screen can be implemented19:00
freemangordonvi_: I am just not that good (if at all) with GTK19:00
freemangordonar something like - if there is a missed even(call, mail, sms, etc) to open the relevant application by swiping the icon, etc19:01
vi_what lady?19:02
freemangordona friend of mine19:02
freemangordonshe has n900. and she convinced her father and several of his coleagues to by n900 :D:D:D19:03
keriothat's definetely a mistake :s19:03
Sicelokerio: +119:03
vi_oh dear.19:03
keriothree layers of indirection for tech support?19:03
freemangordonkerio: why? new deviceces with 2 years of warranty from the MNO, for the price of ~100 euros each19:03
vi_I do not wish n900 on anyone.19:04
freemangordoni'd said thats a deal19:04
keriofreemangordon: :O19:04
kerioi want some of those19:04
vi_freemangordon: what!19:04
freemangordonunfortunately no way19:04
vi_n900, 100 euro, brand new???19:04
freemangordonbut they have some corporate discount19:04
freemangordonAoyagi: Bulgaria19:05
freemangordon<vi_> I do not wish n900 on anyone.19:07
freemangordonI really don;t get it19:08
freemangordonbesides me none of those I know that own n900 around me is a developer19:08
freemangordonall of them are extremely happy with their device19:08
vi_n900 is the GREATEST device EVER made.19:09
vi_however to exploit its real potential you have to know a thing or 2 about computers.19:09
freemangordonI know, thats why I asked why you wouldn't recommend it. Though TBH I didn't recommend it too19:09
freemangordonfor the exactly same reason19:10
freemangordonbut for 100 euros... really , thats a deal19:10
vi_I will take 3 please.  are they still available?19:11
freemangordonvi_: no, it is some corporate discount, with such a terms, that even the lady was unable to get a second device19:11
freemangordonbought by her father19:12
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DocScrutinizer05tbh i'm not that interested in the discount, rather in the source for brand new N90019:14
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: MNO is vivacom, but one needs to sign a contract19:15
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DocScrutinizer05well, as long as that contract doesn't cost me too much, I happily pay the 24 or whatever months of €€/month and get a N900 with warranty and all19:16
freemangordonyeah, iirc 1 year contract, 5 euros or something per month. and you get brand new n900 for ~230 euros19:16
DocScrutinizer05~230 + (12 * 5)19:17
kerioso that's 290€ for a new n900 huh19:17
DocScrutinizer05how many contracts may a single human sign with them?19:17
keriofreemangordon: are you sure it's a nokia n900 and not a nokia n9-00?19:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sounds strange19:18
keriothe vivacom website doesn't list the n90019:18
freemangordonkerio: yeah, i know. but they sell them in stores19:21
freemangordondon;t ask me why19:22
DocScrutinizer05could you get me two?19:22
freemangordonkerio: yes, I am sure, it is n90019:22
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i'll think about19:22
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I mean, you'll keep the SIM and the 60EUR19:22
DocScrutinizer05sell them, use them, do whatever you like with them19:23
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i'll try to find time in the incomming week to go to some store and will ask for the terms19:23
DocScrutinizer05thanks a lot19:24
freemangordonbut don;t promise anything, I am pretty busy these days19:24
freemangordonduring the working hours that is19:24
DocScrutinizer05only brand new with original packaging, please19:24
freemangordonof course, i bouth my second one from them. tou it was more expensive when i bought it19:25
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DocScrutinizer05would make for nice x-mas gift packages, and that's probably also best way to package and send them from your place to Germany19:28
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kerioto avoid customs, huh? crafty19:37
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: who's admin of infra, like repositories etc, wiki, whatnot else19:37
DocScrutinizer05kerio: err, no ;-) just because it's x-mas and they are a gift for me19:37
DocScrutinizer05nobody ever defined who may *not* pay for a gift19:38
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qwazixI'm thinking, if I find some time, to make a scriptable camera app. What's the best approach if I don't want to invent my own scripting language?19:38
DocScrutinizer05or python19:39
DocScrutinizer05and use gstreamer19:39
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DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil already did such stuff iirc19:39
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DocScrutinizer05iirc he was first to come up with nightmode video19:40
qwazixNo, I want to use fcam, to make something that allows precise control of the timings, like for example "open shutter, wait 2ms fire flash in 0,5intensity, wait 2ms fire flash again, wait 5ms, fire flash full intensity, close shutter. Repeat everything five times19:40
DocScrutinizer05well, if it has to become a decent app, you probably want python19:41
DocScrutinizer05seems extremely simple to add a python API to any arbitrary app19:42
qwazixsounds interesting, I'll check it out19:42
DocScrutinizer05check that python ISDN package that existed some 6 or 8 years ago19:42
qwazixI was thinking at first to implement it by myself with something stupid, like json, but it won't allow for advanced things19:43
qwazixbut this sounds really cool19:43
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, Nemein was19:50
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: :nod:19:50
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AoyagiHm, one of my HDDs has suddenly gotten on about a tenth of its speed...I sense devastating data loss soon.20:42
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kerioAoyagi: what does SMART say?20:49
keriowhy are we talking about nemein like it's a person?20:51
AoyagiIt's not enabled :/20:53
keriobuy a ssd20:54
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AoyagiYeah, THAT's more reliable :D20:57
keriothey are20:57
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AoyagiOh really. So all the tests I've seen must have been lying then.20:59
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kerioi suppose so21:04
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* ShadowJK has two hd's that are totally buggered without smart noticing anything21:35
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Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer05, You may recall I claimed about a week ago that my Mobile Hotspot worked with the default Nokia kernel.   I was wrong, you were right - the power kernel is needed.21:44
kerioKen-Young: the stock kernel has no iptables21:45
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JaffaDocScrutinizer05: ping22:09
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JaffaDocScrutinizer05: (for later) seems a little downlevel22:19
kerioPali: are packages that install stuff in /etc/bootmenu.d for uboot supposed to call u-boot-update-bootmenu? are they supposed to just remind the user to do that?22:20
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Palikerio, packages should run u-boot-update-bootmenu in postinst script22:22
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keriowhat if the user doesn't want that, for some weird reason?22:22
Palisee kernel-power-bootimg.postinst22:22
Paliif test -x /usr/bin/u-boot-update-bootmenu; then ...; fi22:23
keriono, i mean, what if the user doesn't want me to update the bootmenu?22:23
Paliafter changing /etc/bootmenu.d you must re-run and regenerate bootmenu22:24
kerioi know that22:24
keriobut what if the user wants to do that manually?22:24
Paliit is not for manual use :-)22:24
Palipackages should do it automatically22:25
kerioi just wanted to know if it was an official thing22:25
Palimanual use is needed only if you manual edit files in /etc/bootmenu.d22:25
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kerioPali: is it ok to depend on u-boot-tools for a -bootimg thing?22:29
Palikerio, if your image is "only for uboot" and not working without uboot then yes22:30
Palibut if your image should work without uboot, then do not depend22:30
keriowell, i don't know if you can boot rescueOS with multiboot22:30
kerioprobably not22:30
Palikernel-power-bootimg not depending on u-boot22:30
Palibecause kernel-power-bootimg can be used by other package at compile time22:31
Pali(e.g package which use zImage from kernel-power)22:31
Paliand I do not know if u-boot-tools depends on u-boot-flasher22:31
kerioi see22:31
Palipropably maybe not22:31
keriono, u-boot-tools doesn't depend on the flasher22:31
Palibetter depends on u-boot-flasher22:32
kerioi don't have u-boot-flasher installed22:32
kerioi think22:32
Paligood point22:32
Paliyou can install u-boot by flasher-3.522:32
Paliso better depends on u-boot-tools22:32
keriothis is purely academical, mind you22:33
DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: sorry, what's "downlevel"? Actually it's not the only wiki page that urgently needs editing, alas wiki doesn't allow editing since months now22:33
kerioi don't want to figure out the correct copyright notices for rescueos22:33
Palikerio, u-boot-flasher depends on u-boot-tools22:33
kerioyeah but i have the tools installed and not the flasher22:34
Paliso you can create your own uboot image (e.g. with kernel-power) which will depend on u-boot-tools22:34
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Oh, wiki's locked?22:34
keriohm, that would be kinda neat22:34
Palitools can be installed without flasher22:34
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: I meant referring to the "previous version"22:34
DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: wiki is fubar22:34
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Oh :-(22:34
kerioPali: with fiasco-image-update-ask i just don't flash KP22:34
* Jaffa 's been trying to catch up for this week's MWKN22:34
kerioPali: i have kernel-power-flasher installed22:35
DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: on the bright side we don't have to care about wiki spam22:36
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: :)22:36
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DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: obviously Nokia or Nemein feels like "who cares what they think about us, leaving a mess for them"22:37
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: "database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software" when logging in, for example?22:37
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Nokia I can understand, but I would've thought Nemein was interested in looking for new business22:37
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: Have you tried contacting bergie directly?22:37
DocScrutinizer05nope, I don't even know who's that22:38
JaffaHenri Bergius. bergie on IRC (in #jollamobile atm). Boss of Nemein/main representative for Council (X-Fade works/ed for him)22:39
DocScrutinizer05well, I never heard about anything like that22:39
DocScrutinizer05seems like previous council(s) didn't bother too much with documenting stuff like that22:40
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DocScrutinizer05or somebody missed to point us (me?) to those documents22:40
DocScrutinizer05honestly wiki fsckup isn't even a lame joke anymore, it's a plain offense22:41
JaffaNot sure about any docs (they'd be in the wiki :-/) but presumably been lost in Chinese whispers of repeated handovers. Including the recent Councils of Doom.22:41
JaffaAlthough, really, it should've been part of the Nokia handover, I guess.22:42
DocScrutinizer05what's a Nokia handover?22:42
JaffaFair point.22:43
JaffaDo you want me to send bergie an email to link you two up?22:43
DocScrutinizer05sure! much appreciated22:43
kerioDocScrutinizer05: /query bergie fix the wiki you asshole22:44
JaffaSomething like "The Council, and the Hildon Foundation, want to continue the infrastructure currently hosted by Nemein. Possibly, as far as I can tell, including paying Nemein to continue it; or handover if not (at least so the problems with can be fixed)!"22:45
DocScrutinizer05kerio: now i know why you refused to run for council22:45
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Jaffakerio: Easier to catch honey with bees. (Or something)22:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i did that for the good of the community22:45
kerioJaffa: only in soviet russia22:45
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JaffaRight. Time to make a cup of tea and watch some old TV on Netflix23:01
DocScrutinizer05yummy, kirin ichiban beer. Reminds me on my times at Taipei23:01
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ShadowJKI havent quite found another beer like that23:09
ShadowJKand state alcohol monopoly stopped selling kirin ichiban23:10
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rlinfatiDocScrutinizer05, Pali, about gpg key expires... see:
Palirlinfati, only "Nokia repository signing key 4v1" is used23:16
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rlinfatialso 2E6D6F9A23:18
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DocScrutinizer05what is  maemo security <> ?23:58

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