IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-12-09

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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:/home/user# find /sys -name '*prox*'00:06
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:/home/user# cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state00:07
DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: ^^^00:08
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XATRIXYea, the proximity sensor works as a charm01:01
XATRIXBut what is it for ?01:01
wmaronein the N900?01:01
nox-isnt it for the phone app to know when you have it to your ear?01:02
wmaronethat's one use01:02
XATRIXAnd how can i check it does what it should ?01:02
XATRIXI tried to place a finger on it, and tap some buttons on the scree. It still functional01:03
fizzieThe phone app will blank the screen when the proximity sensor fires (at least it always does for me), so if there are buttons still visible, it's probably not detecting anything.01:06
fizzie(Blocking it with a finger also works for me, at least as seen by a "while sleep 1; do cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state; done" loop.)01:08
ShadowJKIt's only used when you get a call or are on a call01:14
ShadowJKSome apps use it as an extra button01:14
DocScrutinizer05it blanks screen when dialer on top01:29
DocScrutinizer05actually, when call established01:30
DocScrutinizer05only when not in pseakerphone mode01:30
Corsacand is the silencing of ringing done using proximity sensor or using accelerometer?01:30
ShadowJKI didn't know there was silencing of ringing01:31
CorsacShadowJK: just return your phone when it rings :)01:31
Corsacit's pretty useful actually01:31
DocScrutinizer05in Samsung Omnia this same system caused dropouts in mp3 playback when phone in pocket while walking :-/01:32
DocScrutinizer05silly bug01:33
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DocScrutinizer05(ringing) I however would hope that during ringing it also locks screen as long as proxim sensor closed - so you can't accidentally accept/reject a call while phone still in pocket01:36
DocScrutinizer05never tested it, but since that never happened to me, I'd guess it already does01:36
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DocScrutinizer05tested it now, exactly as it's supposed to work01:38
DocScrutinizer05no surprise since it's the very same dialer screen you see also during call-established01:39
ShadowJKI wish it could tell difference between phone in pocket, and stupid user like me holding the phone so that the prox sensor is covered :s01:39
DocScrutinizer05umm, can't you check where's your fingers when phone starts ringing?01:40
DocScrutinizer05just like I did, a minute ago01:40
DocScrutinizer05I mean, you'll start to wonder what's up when it starts ringing but screen stays locked01:41
DocScrutinizer05I'm way more annoyed by me stupidly covering the ALS01:42
DocScrutinizer05and tbh I consider poll interval of ALS of ~10s a bug anyway, since during screen backlight on you don't worry too much about those uAs used up by polling it way more frequently01:43
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DocScrutinizer05I also ponder to cover ALS with a white paper, to reduce directional sensitivity01:45
DocScrutinizer05Ambient Light Sensor01:45
DocScrutinizer05not the disease of same name01:45
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merlin1991hm does crontab alllow for something like every 15 mins starting with minute 3 of the hour?02:02
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jrayhawkmerlin1991: man 5 crontab02:08
jrayhawkeach field can take a comma separated list02:08
jrayhawkso, for instance, 3,18,33,4802:08
merlin1991yeah I was hoping some awesome foo of the /x syntax would allow for that without typing out the list02:08
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: 3-59/1502:23
DocScrutinizer05obviously only works for periods that are a natural fraction of the whole unit02:24
DocScrutinizer05err, hope you know what i mean02:25
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DocScrutinizer053-59/18 wouldn't cause next hour's events start at any tme different from "3"02:26
DocScrutinizer05IOW a 10-59/31 will not cause event after next to start at 0:0202:27
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infobotfrom memory, xyawn is big coffee02:29
DocScrutinizer05without milk :-S02:29
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trumeeDocScrutinizer05: i tried mounting N900 on the android phone. Without using 'stop bme', android phone did not see the N900 UMS. However, after doing 'stop bme', android sees N900, but returns "Damaged USB storage" :(02:41
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ShadowJKmaybe it hates partitionless03:07
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trumeeShadowJK: you mean i need to partition it further?03:17
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ShadowJKThat'd probably mess it up on N900 side ;)03:19
ShadowJKBut you could confirm my theory by taking a normal usb key and creating filesystem without partition tables03:19
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infobotConfigurable image directory thumbnail viewer. URL:
infobotcssu-thumb is probably <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or
infobotFIQ: aw, gee04:03
FIQDocScrutinizer05: as this is an upgrade from cssu stable rather than PR1.3, will steps be different?04:08
FIQfrom stable to thumb, that is04:09
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I actually don't know, ask freemangordon or check tmo for the cssu-thumb thread04:17
FIQwell due to lack of immediate response I tried it out04:18
FIQworse case is that i'll have to rollback, simple enough04:18
FIQbut currently step 6 seems not needed04:18
FIQi pressed link, ham opened and did its' thing04:19
FIQand then i got "update for maemo" notification04:19
DocScrutinizer05nfc how cssu-thumb is meant to handle its dependencies04:19
FIQham seems to have crashed though04:20
FIQnot that it's unusual that it's slow04:20
FIQbut i've had a black screen @update window for 15min now04:20
DocScrutinizer05aiui it is based on CSSU-T and builds on top of it, relying on whatever CSSU-T did to ensure proper update from stock to CSSU04:20
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DocScrutinizer05I honnestly suggest you read that tmo thread04:21
FIQah, it's still working apparently04:21
FIQi'll see04:21
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DocScrutinizer05 <-- READ!04:23
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FIQDocScrutinizer05: i've already read that04:24
FIQbasically it tells me that installation is the same as for usual cssu and that it's based on testing04:25
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FIQmy question was that, as instructions assume pr1.3(.1), i wondered if it wouldn't work if I ran cssu s4 instead of pr1.304:26
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merlin1991FIQ: should work just fine04:30
FIQmerlin1991: ok04:30
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I don't know. depends on cssu-enabler and whether it's needed and whether it's executing when it already ran before04:30
FIQwell neverthless HAM crashed after showing that there was an "update for maejmo"04:30
merlin1991what did you do untill now?04:31
DocScrutinizer05you're sure you got a thumb-enabled kernel ?04:31
FIQmerlin1991: i waited for it to finish do its' thing04:31
FIQDocScrutinizer05: yes04:31
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but is it actually thumb-enabled?04:32
merlin1991oh ffs apt-get update on my box is stuck somewhere04:32
DocScrutinizer05there's a means to enable the thumb workaround, and I'm not even sure this kernel version you posted already has the thumb fix04:32
FIQI assumed it was as the forum post say power51 should work04:32
FIQIf you have kernel-power v51r1 or above, no custom kernel will be installed, as needed errata workaround is included in kernel-power v51r1 (and above)04:33
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I am no help regarding all this. since I can't recall all the details04:33
merlin1991FIQ: no worries about the kernel, you didn't get any thumb pacakges yet04:33
FIQthe forum post say nothing about specifically enabling work-around04:34
DocScrutinizer052.6.28.10-power51 doesn't sound like r104:34
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: the mp will pull in a recent enough version04:35
FIQDocScrutinizer05: I assumed was "r1"04:35
merlin1991no point in nitpicking versions prior to any installation of actuall packages04:35
FIQcurrently waiting on ham loading04:35
FIQmerlin1991: though if it's going to pull a newer kernel, my BM backup becomes obsolete :p04:37
merlin1991you can always flash the old image with flasher ;)04:37
merlin1991usb port down or why?04:38
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: err wut?04:39
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess nitpicking versions is essential when it comes to the line between kernel versions that support thumb and those wo don't04:39
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: not if you do it prior to installing the mp which pulls in thumb stuff and a proper kernel04:40
merlin1991that's for post mortem debugging of why the fuck it doesn't boot anymore04:40
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, when updating from CSSU-S, I'm not all that sure there's *any* MP involved04:40
merlin1991oh there is04:41
merlin1991it's always done over  the mp04:41
merlin1991the Maemo update avaiable msg comes from the mp04:41
DocScrutinizer05yeah, exactly my point04:41
merlin1991so he is on current S, adds cssu-thumb repos, gets update avaiable msg04:42
DocScrutinizer05aiui cssu-thumb is a sparse repo that adds new packages on top of cssu-t04:42
DocScrutinizer05simply by bumping the version04:42
merlin1991is that coming from some magical apt uberfoo, or from the mp that fmg maintins04:42
DocScrutinizer05from versions!04:42
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: and how would that work for  ham please?04:43
DocScrutinizer05otherwise how are packages downgraded from cssu-thumb to new version in cssu-T6?04:43
merlin1991because they have even higher versions than the -thumb ones04:43
DocScrutinizer05meh, tbh I DGAF04:43
merlin1991btw FIQ Doc actually brought up a proper point, since the current -testing is higher in verison than thumb, you're not going to get the thumb stuff untill freemangordon pushes a new mp04:45
DocScrutinizer05maemo repos are weird enough, cssu-thumb is simply a nightmare, if only because of missing docs of *any* form on how it's supposed to get maintained04:45
DocScrutinizer05so, read that post of fmg on tmo, about 2howto install cssu-thumb", and if it doesn't work, ask fmg04:48
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FIQI seem to be on T604:52 do you know if you're on thumb or not?04:52
merlin1991you currently can't get on thumb04:52
merlin1991newest T has a higher verison than thumb untill fmg pushes a new mp04:53
FIQnow I don't understand04:53
FIQI was on stable04:53
merlin1991thumb uses 2 repos04:53
FIQclicked on provided link in thumb04:53
merlin1991the testing repo and the thumb repo04:53
FIQand now i'm on testing04:53
merlin1991apt installs the highest version of the mp04:53
FIQso I did do the steps right, just that testing had higher version number04:54
DocScrutinizer05I honestly hoped for cssu-thumb repo being a comprehensive duplicate of CSSU-T, with some thumb-augments04:54
merlin1991the current testing release is newer than the newest thumb release -> you'll get a "real" thumb as soon as freemangordon does the next update04:54
FIQah ok04:54
DocScrutinizer05so the repos would be alternative instead of complementary04:55
DocScrutinizer05obviously complementary repos don't work, in this scenario04:55
DocScrutinizer05gives you a mega headache, if anything04:56
merlin1991nah the friggin metapackage gives you a mega headache04:57
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but we didn't make it to get rid if that BULLSHIT04:57
merlin1991we can't04:57
DocScrutinizer05everybody else can live without friggin MP, why can't we?04:59
FIQwhy is that?04:59
FIQwhy does it even exist?04:59
merlin1991because nokia removed the concept of system packages from apt04:59
DocScrutinizer05fix dependencies, profit!05:00
FIQ@ merlin199105:00
merlin1991if we "fix" dependencies apt suddenly will think that ALL packages (except for the user installed ones) are candiates for removal05:00
FIQso they removed the point of system packages and reinvented it on its' own?05:00
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FIQsounds like dist-upgrade05:01
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DocScrutinizer05I'd really *really* like to read the internal Nokia whitepaper with the rationale for that fsckng MESS05:01
FIQcan't you do some kind of scripts that reintroduces system packages?05:02
FIQlike a modified apt or whatever is needed05:02
FIQit should be possible allbeit tedious05:02
DocScrutinizer05anyway not even without any MP cssu-T and cssu-thumb repo would play together nicely05:02
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: +105:03
DocScrutinizer05I frankly admit I still haven't grok'd it what's this system-package stuff all about05:03
jonwilbasically all we need is a way to mark all the essential-to-the-system packages are "do not remove unless specifically asked to"05:04
jonwili.e. the dependencies of mp-*-pr05:05
FIQshouldn't be that hard05:05
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: that's what I thought as well05:05
merlin1991on regular debian apt considers a few pacakges "system (might be called different)" packages which are kept installed unless specifically uninstalled, that is done via package metadata05:05
jonwilyeah I guess the problem is that none of the Maemo packages are marked as "system-essential" or whatever it is05:06
jonwilwhy Nokia went for mp rather than just the system package stuff is beyond me05:06
merlin1991jonwil: yeah, the support for it is missing in apt AND most (c)nokia packages don#t have the marking05:06
FIQif you fix this, wouldn't it make apt more realible in general?05:07
merlin1991jonwil: easy they depend on verisons=something to roll out distinct pr releases where they know the base system is 100% of type X05:07
DocScrutinizer05since they are whimps05:07
DocScrutinizer05real men dare to handle proper ">=" relations for system packages05:08
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jonwilremembering also that they need to support different firmwares05:08
FIQ"4 upgraded, 7 newly installed, 376 to remove and 33 not upgraded."05:08
FIQlet's do this!05:08
jonwili.e. the different region versions05:08
FIQ..or not05:09
merlin1991jonwil: there is a different mp in each regional repo05:09
jonwilyeah that's what I mean05:09
merlin1991mp-fremantle-generic-pr, mp-fremantle-203-pr, mp-fremantle-002-pr, mp-fremantle-003-pr05:09
FIQmp-fremantle-community-pr for cssu05:09
FIQand then the regional one05:09
jonwilhence why they did it with mp stuff rather than system so they could install the relevant mp package and have it pull the right region bits05:09
FIQyeah, that05:09
jonwilmaybe an idea is to fix APT in CSSU so it supports this feature05:10
merlin1991you don't have the "generic" repo enabled when you have a different region image flashed05:10
jonwiland then add a separate thing that says "if a package is listed in this list, pretend that its metadata has "system-essential set"05:10
jonwili.e. to account for the fact that we cant re-package all the Nokia blobs05:11
jonwilwith the flag set05:11
merlin1991jonwil: we'd still have to adapt ham05:11
jonwilHAM is open source is it not?05:11
merlin1991we're happy about all patches ;)05:11
merlin1991but so far everyone who did anything to ham (including me) came back with a headache05:12
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FIQanyone who makes ham load faster would get my full support05:12
merlin1991well ham loads fast, it's apt-worker that takes forever in the background ;)05:13
FIQif you ever remove mp-thingy05:14
merlin1991well the cssu-enabler (in the more recent verisons) marks most dependencies of the nokia pr as user installed05:15
merlin1991so if you remove the mp, you have a good chance everything stays05:15
FIQwhat's the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade?05:17
FIQbesides the latter breaking the os on maemo05:17
merlin1991dist-upgrade is allowed to install new packages05:17
merlin1991and remove others05:17
merlin1991upgrade only tries to upgrade everything you currently have to newer versions05:17
FIQwhy does it want to remove the whole os on maemo?05:17
FIQ(pretty much05:17
FIQi guess there's some kind of dependency conflict05:18
merlin1991well something somewhere with a newer versions conflicts with a core package and then the dependency chain is broken and it wants to autoremove the rest05:18
merlin1991also dist-upgrade removes any packges that are not a dependency of something, user installed or system essential ;)05:20
DocScrutinizer05I don't see any problem with marking *ALL* as user-installed, then nuke friggin MP for good and never come back05:21
DocScrutinizer05and while we're at it, change all "==" dependencies to ">=" (except those on a blacklist)05:23
FIQi'm not sure but i think something went wrong during cssu update05:23
FIQ   libgcc1 (4.2.1-4maemo13+0m5 => 4.7.2-0+cssu0)05:23
FIQseems that i have an old libgcc1 still05:23
merlin1991btw the main culprit for dist-upgrade going mental is the gcc 4.6 in extras-devel05:24
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I might be wrong, but I think cssu-thumb comes with a new glibc for that other (poll?) bug05:31
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: then there's also been some widespread misconception about version numbering colation and "-" vs "+" char iirc05:33
jonwilis there a valid reason to have glibc in extras-devel?05:33
DocScrutinizer05not really05:34
jonwilwhy not get it removed from extras then to avoid the problems?05:37
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DocScrutinizer05well, my standard advice: never do a apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade or apt-get autoremove05:48
DocScrutinizer05I'd expect more than just glibc to cause problems when indicriminately updating everything against extras-devel05:52
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DocScrutinizer05but as a general rule there shouldn't be updates in extras-devel of stuff bound to MP06:15
DocScrutinizer05neither in extras-devel nor any of the other extras* repos, aiui06:16
DocScrutinizer05after all that's what cssu got invented for06:17
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kerioFIQ: there's a way to toy around with apt priorities to automatically stay on cssu-thumb instead of moving to cssu-testing10:39
kerioFIQ: anyway, the upgrade to -Tmaemo6 should've installed a bunch of thumb packages, you're only missing hildon-desktop and something else10:40
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Gearwhat is the best mapping software for the n900 currently?10:53
Gearmost of the map stuff ended up not quite finished and I pretty often just use google maps, but the browser is slow10:54
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kerioGear: maybe maep10:57
Gearis there a stable version of it?10:58
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jogaGear maep is pretty nice and quick, but recently I've just started up modrana if I need a map (since I've pre-downloaded the tiles in it)11:08
jogaalso cloudgps is fancy but for some reason for me doesn't enable gps when I start it, so I also need to run something like gpsdata in bg11:10
Gearyeah I had trouble with cloud gps11:12
Gearmaep doesn't seem to search for anywhere11:12
Gearit tells me where I am, but I can usually tell that by looking at a street sign11:13
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|thunderis maemo still being used in modern/new hardware ?11:51
|thunderor is the n900 the fastest thing it runs on ?11:52
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DocScrutinizer05Gear: try marble12:08
DocScrutinizer05|thunder: the latter12:08
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kerioif by maemo you mean the actual maemo fremantle with all of its quirks and closed bits, then no - it'll only ever run on the n90012:18
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trumeeDocScrutinizer05: N900 doesnt mount on android,
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keriotrumee: it's probably because of a lack of partition table12:26
trumeekerio: ah, i see12:27
trumeekerio: i though emmc was partitioned in N900?12:27
kerioit is12:27
keriobut only mmcblk0p1 is exported12:27
kerionot the whole of mmcblk012:27
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kerioi'm not sure how you'd fix that12:29
keriog_file_storage is somewhat rigid, it wants a single file to export12:29
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DocScrutinizer05well, /dev/mmcblk0 is also a single file ;-)12:33
trumeelooks like i am stuffed then.12:34
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but if you export mmcblk0 you have to be damn sure not to change anything in the other partitins13:02
kerio(i'm not even sure it's possible, anyway)13:02
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, yeah13:02
kerioi mean, usb mass storage does export my whole sd, including the partitions i'm using as swap13:02
keriobut i never actually tried writing on one of those :)13:03
DocScrutinizer05home and swap being mounted might forbid export13:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nah, it exports fine13:03
kerioi bet (read: i hope) g_file_storage returns IO error when the usb host tries to write to a partition that's already mounted13:04
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DocScrutinizer05haha, why do you hope / think so?13:05
kerioanyway, it's weird that android doesn't support usb superfloppies13:05
kerioDocScrutinizer05: because the kernel locks down swap partitions tightly, usually13:05
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but mmcblk0 is a raw phy dev, with no idea about the partitions on it13:06
keriohm :(13:06
keriothen i really want ke-recv to be configurable, so at least i don't risk exploding my system13:06
kerioi still haven't *found* the place where it decides "ok, i'll export mmcblk0p1 and mmcblk1"13:07
DocScrutinizer05so unless there's a sector lock on every sector, you won't see anything hindering you to nuke your home ext3 or swap partition13:07
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DocScrutinizer05I think ke-recv passing those parameters to osso-export-foo.sh13:08
jonwilwhat exactly is ke-recv anyway?13:09
keriojonwil: a bad copy of autofs, or something13:09
DocScrutinizer05a process that listens to several event sources13:09
DocScrutinizer05similar to udev, in a certain way13:10
jonwilok, so its basically there to listen to a bunch of hardware and kernel triggers and then react somehow?13:10
keriojonwil: the same thing is doable in a better way by configuring udev13:10
keriobut alas, nokia is nokia13:11
DocScrutinizer05see ke-recv-test13:11
jonwilat least ke-recv is open source so we can mess with it if we need to :)13:11
DocScrutinizer05kerio: afaik not really, since udev not listening to kevents13:11
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DocScrutinizer05Usage: ke-recv-test <command> [/dev/mmcblk(1|0)] cb - close battery cover signal ob - open battery cover signal f - format device <arg> r - rename device <arg> l - send device locked signal u - send device unlocked signal at - send USB attached signal de - send USB detached signal s - swap on (ext-)MMC si - swap on (int-)MMC t - swap off (ext-)MMC ti - swap off (int-)MMC e - check device <arg> ej - eject USB ec - cancel eject USB p -13:12
DocScrutinizer05enable PC Suite c - enable charging mode m - enable USB mass storage13:12
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DocScrutinizer05jonwil: which cssu actually did already13:20
DocScrutinizer05ask Pali13:21
Palike-recv is daemon which listening HAL events from dbus and run some commands13:23
Paliit mounting MyDocs, SD card and usb flash devices13:23
Paliand also umount them when back cover is detached13:24
keriothe last thing is really, really stupid, btw13:24
kerioonce the backcover is detached, you can't write to the usd anymore13:24
kerioany attempt at unmounting it is just silly13:24
jonwilIs that back-cover thing a kernel thing or a hardware thing?13:25
keriojonwil: yes13:25
jonwilkernel or hardware?13:26
keriothe last time i asked, nobody was sure13:26
kerioit could be a thing in the usd kernel module13:26
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Palibackcover is visible in kernel as GPIO pin and kernel automatically disconnect SD card (decrease some voltage)13:34
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DocScrutinizer05incorrect, I'm sure it's sw14:10
DocScrutinizer05and iirc I was sure last time you asked14:13
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DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch14:18
DocScrutinizer05see mmc0(!)14:18
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: so can we disable the cover switch?14:36
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: cover_switch has perms 044414:42
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, now I'm tunning script for switching to usb host mode and I found one problem...14:44
Palimore times switching to host mode failing because udev trying to load some usb driver which causing some errors14:45
PaliDocScrutinizer05, is good idea to pause udev when switching to host mode and resume it after usb device is visible?14:45
Paliudevadm control --stop_exec_queue and udevadm control --start_exec_queue14:46
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: I'd rather augment the udev rule that kicks in14:54
PaliDocScrutinizer05, and with my usb hub I see other problem. when I'm not using hub for about 1min kernel autosuspend usb bus and after I want to do with hub it cannot resume it14:55
Paliin dmesg I see errors: usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -1914:55
DocScrutinizer05hmm, that's kinda strange14:55
DocScrutinizer05dunno why it autosuspends14:56
Palibut if I doing something with hub (and kernel not enter usb into suspend) it is ok14:56
Palibecause usbcore doing autosuspend automatically14:56
DocScrutinizer05there's a usb suspend mode, I know14:56
Paliwhat do you think about disabling usb autosuspend?14:56
DocScrutinizer05should already been done14:57
DocScrutinizer05I thought we did take care about it back when we patched kernel14:57
DocScrutinizer05obviously we missed sth14:57
Paliusbcore is statically linked into zImage, so only option to change autosuspned is via sysfs: /sys/module/usbcore/parameters/autosuspend14:58
PaliI'm going to try to find some doc about that file14:58
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Palicat on maemo show me value 214:58
DocScrutinizer05I can't recall I'd have seen any 60s period for suspend in musb_hdrc.c and relatives14:59
Paliusbcore.autosuspend= [USB] The autosuspend time delay (in seconds) used for newly-detected USB devices (default 2).  This is the time required before an idle device will be autosuspended.  Devices for which the delay is set to a negative value won't be autosuspended at all.15:00
Palion maemo it is 215:00
DocScrutinizer05anyway I guess you can kick it out of source completely, I don't know right now why we'd need it15:01
Paliautosuspend is part of usbcore15:01
Paliwe cannot detele usbcore module15:02
DocScrutinizer05I didn't suggest to delete the whole module15:02
Pali$ echo -1 > /sys/module/usbcore/parameters/autosuspend15:02
Palifixed that problem15:02
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, and I have other problem. when I connect usb hub to n900 and start usb host mode, hub is detected15:10
Paliif I connect hub with connected usb device before starting usb host mode when both device and hub are detected after usb host mode is enabled15:10
Palibut if I plug usb device into hub which was already detected in usb host mode, it will break usb host mode15:11
Paliagain errors: usb 1-1: device descriptor read/64, error -7115:11
Paliand then lsusb does not see hub too15:11
Palihm, my usb mouse is working, only one usb flash device & usb ethernet card causing that problem15:19
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Palibtw, after unplugging usb from n900 is needed to rmmod g_file_storage to deregister usb device from system15:20
Paliunloading g_file_storage doing that job15:20
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peetahhi, someone knows anything about how to activate EAP-SIM support for N900 ?16:00
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pdanekHello, anyone tried if Etymotic Research headsets work for N900? Models like mc2, hf2,....16:01
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SpeedEvilpeetah: I doubt it is possible16:04
SpeedEvilpeetah: it requires support in the modem code.16:04
peetahSpeedEvil: and I guess that depends on closed source code ?16:05
pdanekHmm, it must support a 3.5 mm/ 4-conductor stereo phone plug.16:05
pdanekI suppose, N900 does?16:05
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pdanek4 conductor16:05
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SpeedEvilpeetah: closed, encrypted, signed16:06
peetahnice :)16:06
SpeedEvilpdanek: find out the part number for the headset. now, find out if it's compatible with that headset, or with phones supporting it. I think all Nokia 4 pin dumb headsets are the same pin out16:07
peetahSpeedEvil: so no hope on this part then, thanks for answering16:07
SpeedEvilpeetah: probably not, unless it's alreadymnsauppirted.16:08
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SpeedEvilI thought that this was a network side authentication16:08
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pdanekSpeedEvil: thanks, but it seems that Nokia headsets are 3 pin only :O16:13
pdaneksorry, Nokia jack inputs I mean16:14
SpeedEvilno, they aren't16:14
SpeedEvilthey are stereo plus mic16:14
SpeedEvil4 wore16:14
pdanekgreat, so N900 has 4 pin, right?16:15
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pdanekit means, it should support most of universal 1 button headsets16:15
SpeedEvilbut there are two 4 pin standards16:15
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RzRquestion : nokia n900 vs nokia e7 vs lumia 800 ?17:54
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PaliNew version of usbmode:
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SiceloPali: this will automatically work fine with non-disk stuff?18:21
PaliSicelo, it always worked and working for non-disk devices too18:22
Sicelook. i'm still on KP50. i'll upgrade and install usbmode18:23
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SiceloPali: one more question... usbmode won't complain if i connect a device+power using a y-cable?18:39
kerioPali: bme 1.0 should really add an empty /etc/bme-disabled fle18:40
PaliSicelo, before usb host mode will be established you need to disconnect power from y-cable18:40
kerioPali: pnatd should be stopped on G_NOKIA_REMOVE, so maybe wait a couple of seconds before killing it?18:41
Palibut usbmode support host mode with charging (see screenshot)18:41
Sicelohmm, ok. i'll look at it some more18:42
Palikerio, I'm not sending KILL signal, so daemon should handle it18:43
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markinfohi. Would you sugest to buy Nokia N9? is there some Maemo similar OS?18:49
RzRi would18:52
markinfobut "used" for 200€ ?18:54
keriomarkinfo: meh, it's quite unlike a n90018:54
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Lava_Croftits quite unlike the N90019:45
Lava_Croftbut its also quite like the N90019:45
Lava_Croftand nothing else on the market comes closer to the N900 than the N919:45
Lava_Croftso yes, a total recommendation19:45
NIN102isn't it a dead end?19:46
Lava_CroftSo what19:46
Lava_CroftDoesnt make the device any less usable19:46
Lava_CroftAnd again, there's nothing else on the market like it:|19:47
Lava_CroftUnless you want to go with lol openmoko19:47
Aoyagi...what's that?19:47
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AoyagiNo longer supporting phones, huh.19:49
AoyagiAnd yes, I can google too :319:49
Lava_CroftWhy ask then ? :)19:49
AoyagiFor a more personal response.19:49
AoyagiInternet people seem to have forgotten that they were there once :D19:49
Lava_CroftThat would just get you a biased responce on the futility of such shitty hobby projects that rarely yield any desirable results19:49
Lava_CroftBut i dont want to hurt any feelings, see19:49
Aoyagi"lol openmoko" isn't exactly neutral either.19:50
AoyagiWhich is why I asked :)19:50
AoyagiWell, it looks ugly.19:51
markinfowell. But there is question if to buy Nokia N9 for 200€ or samsung Galaxy S for 100€.19:53
Lava_Croftthe samsung will just leave you with android19:53
Lava_Croftif you are a N900 user, Android will most likely piss you off19:53
markinfoand N9? What is there?19:53
Lava_CroftN9 runs Maemo619:53
keriothe n9 runs meego/harmattan19:53
Lava_Croftdont believe the marketing19:54
Lava_Croftits just maemo6 that got mutilated with meego apis19:54
markinfoI tried Android - but it looks chaotic - especialy closing programs is a nightmare.19:54
Lava_Croft'multitasking' in general is a bit weird on Android19:55
AoyagiWhat? I thought Android at least had full control over applications, multitasking, etc...19:55
Aoyagiah, ninja'd19:55
Lava_Croftandroid has no real multitasking like the n900 or n9:)19:55
Lava_Croftit's more like suspending apps19:55
AoyagiN95 is multitasking enough :/19:55
markinfonever heard about Nokia N9519:56
RST38hAndroid has real multitasking19:57
RST38hBut it is not part of their mainstream development model.19:57
RST38hYOu have to explicitely ask the system for it19:57
Aoyagi"Work the way you should, bloody thing"19:58
Lava_CroftIn reality that means almost no application does real multitasking19:58
RST38hAll applications that need multitasking, do multitasking20:00
RST38hThat includes audio players, GPS loggers, and SSH server20:00
Lava_CroftThats incorrect20:00
Lava_CroftMinimizing a game on android basically closes the game20:00
AoyagiBrowsers don't -need- multitasking, but the hell I demand that.20:00
Lava_Croftand getting the game on the forefront again makes android reload the entire game20:00
markinfowhere is maemo6?   ???20:01
RST38hAoyagi: You can only "demand" something if you show the money20:01
AoyagiI can show them my old N95.20:01
RST38hAoyagi: For Android, that would be in the range of tens of millions20:01
AoyagiBah, stupid Android :D20:01
Lava_CroftAndroid is the Windows95 of our current times20:01
RST38hLava: YOu cannot minimize a game on Android. It has no minimize button20:01
Lava_CroftRST38h: minimize as in switch to another task20:02
Lava_Croftyou can minimize on android20:02
Lava_Croftyou just suspend all apps20:02
RST38hAnyways, Android is basically one huge trashcan, indeed20:02
Lava_Croftits incoherent20:02
Lava_Crofti had to downgrade from 4.2 to some 4.1 CM1020:02
RST38hBut you do not seem to understand how that trashcan works, even20:02
Lava_Croft4.2 brought all kinds of brokenness20:02
Lava_CroftThats the point20:02
Lava_CroftIf its not operating like a 'normal' PC20:03
Lava_CroftThen I dont care:)20:03
Lava_CroftAndroid is not operating like a 'normal' PC, so it's junk to me20:03
Lava_CroftDon't need the technical understanding of its inner workings for that20:03
AoyagiThe more I hear about it the more it sounds like S40.20:03
AoyagiExcept with massive fanbase and "app" market.20:04
Lava_CroftI'm not so sure about this 'fanbase'20:04
Lava_CroftMost of them are just people who wanted a smartphone and thought Apple's prices were too high20:04
AoyagiWell I see them everywhere.20:04
Aoyagi"android is teh best" they say20:04
Lava_CroftOf course20:04
Lava_CroftThey also say their local soccerteam is the best20:05
Lava_CroftAnd they say my N9 is shit because it runs Windows20:05
ShadowJKN9 doesn't run windows20:05
* Lava_Croft rolls his eyes20:05
AoyagiI'm presuming the answer to that would be "not by default".20:06
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AoyagiCome to think of it, I haven't read any good Win8 bashing articles for a while...20:06
ShadowJKProbably one advantage N9 has would be that it doesn't freeze the world when you switch app?20:07
* Lava_Croft is on Win8 atm20:07
Lava_CroftIts nearly exactly like Win720:07
AoyagiIf you use Classic Shell, sure.20:07
Lava_Crofteven without it its a nobrainer to switch away from metro and just use classic desktop all day20:07
Lava_Croftkeyboard shortcuts enough20:07
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AoyagiWell, some people are used to the Start menu.20:08
Lava_Croftmost of the win8 bashing must really come from people who havent used it, because with my everyday usage, its just windows7 with weird notifications:)20:08
Lava_CroftI use Classic Shell, I like the start menu:)20:08
Lava_CroftBut people make it sound like Windows8 will break everything20:09
Lava_Croftand you have to re-learn how to use your Windows PC etc20:09
Lava_CroftAll MS's own fault tho20:09
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Lava_CroftWin8 is schizophrenic20:09
AoyagiWell, I didn't feel any need to move forward from 7 yet.20:10
AoyagiI -did- feel an urge to move back to XP many times though...20:11
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Lava_CroftXP is an insecure pos20:11
AoyagiO ye.20:11
Lava_CroftDowngrading from 7 to XP borders on insanity20:12
Lava_CroftUnless you lack the hardware to run 7, of course20:12
AoyagiBut I hate "Networks and sharing center" a LOT, even more I hate Ribbon.20:12
Lava_CroftI dont hate software, its just software20:12
AoyagiAlright, I hate using it.20:12
Lava_CroftRibbon is better when you can customize it20:12
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AoyagiI could customize stuff before and even better.20:12
Lava_CroftOverall it bothers me less than the hell of nested menus20:12
Lava_CroftAnd at least in Office i can customize the ribbon20:13
AoyagiWell, that's why I refuse to leave office 2003 :D20:13
Lava_CroftI dont use the windows file explorer orso20:13
Lava_CroftI guess that has ribbon too20:13
Lava_CroftOn 8 it does20:13
Lava_CroftBut I use Clover, due to tabs20:13
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Lava_Croftone day of this and you will never use the vanilla Explorer in Windows again20:14
AoyagiYes, I meant the 2003 on Win8 Ribbon thing20:14
Lava_Croftoffice 2003 is ribbon-less, yeah20:14
AoyagiHeh, I wondered :D20:15
Lava_CroftThere's one plus to Win8 tho20:15
Lava_CroftI can play Wordfeud on it:)20:15
AoyagiYeah, that's a deal-sealer. xD20:16
SiceloPali: wow. thanks for usbmode :-)20:16
Lava_CroftThe real deal-sealer is the ads inside certain Metro apps20:16
Lava_Croftfor example, Wordfeud also has a section for chatting with your opponent20:17
Lava_Crofteverytime Wordfeud loads another ad in the lower right of the screen, it removes focus from the chat area20:17
AoyagiAds? OS with ads in it? Hnnnngh20:17
Lava_Croftso you were typing and blam it quits working20:17
Lava_Croftnot the OS, the app20:17
AoyagiOh, yes, on Metro20:17
AoyagiRight, makes sense.20:17
Sicelohowever, i would suggest you give us an option to enable/disable its presence on the status menu. personally i only like it there if it's active. i would prefer nothing if it's not active ( Pali )20:18
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kerioSicelo: i'd actually like it to be merged with the battery applet and the usb mode selector20:31
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Sicelowhat battery applet? i have a minimal status menu, and i like it that way.20:33
Siceloflashlight comes up only when 'active', as well as lfocus. i'd be happy with an option to select same for usbmode20:34
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Siceloanyway, i still like it a lot :-)20:36
kerioSicelo: pali's battery applet20:36
keriothe replacement for the battery icon in the status area and the silly "Battery" in the status menu20:37
Siceloi don't know it20:37
Siceloyou have a screenshot?20:37
Lava_CroftSicelo: Upper right of status menu20:38
Lava_Croftby default, it [battery icon] Battery20:38
Lava_Croftit reads*20:38
Siceloi mean Pali's..20:39
Lava_CroftOh yeah, I should look into that battery thing from Pali20:39
kerioLava_Croft: it's pretty fire-and-forget20:39
keriobut it's weird if you don't have a calibrated bq2720020:40
Lava_CroftThat term always scared me20:40
keriounless you still have bme20:40
Lava_CroftI still have vanilla bme20:40
* kerio is disappoint20:40
Sicelome too.20:40
Lava_CroftThis works fine20:40
Siceloi have stock bme, heh20:40
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Sicelothat said, that battery applet looks good20:43
Sicelowhat does the 3 giorni mean? :p20:44
Siceloi hope not, lol.20:45
Lava_Croftgiorno is day20:45
Lava_Croftmight be the uptime or something20:45
Lava_Croftor the time its running since last charge? :P20:46
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Siceloas long as it's not hours, heh. it would be kinda scary to have 63% battery and be told you have 3 more hours to go, lol20:46
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Lava_Croftit might be basing it on current load20:54
Lava_Croftand he MIGHT just be running several youtube videos :)20:54
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Sicelonope, he doesn't seem to be. at least he doesn't have any applications in the background20:56
Sicelounless it's widgets20:56
Lava_CroftMan, I love making HAM update20:59
Lava_Croftand then waiting for what, 10 minutes21:00
Lava_CroftI love HAM21:00
* Sicelo can't even remember when last he use it21:02
Lava_CroftI just use it to make myself remember why i never use it21:02
Lava_CroftOh noo21:02
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Lava_CroftJust as I watch at HAM do nothing, my ship gets shot down by bad guys in Oolite21:02
Lava_Croftgoddamn you21:02
* Sicelo is tempted to 'rm /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu/usbmode-status-menu-item.desktop'21:06
Siceloahah, there's a disabled dir in there21:07
kerioSicelo: don't rm, dpkg-divert21:08
* Sicelo checks the manual 21:10
kerioSicelo: it's basically a mv that stays consistent whatever dpkg does21:11
kerioPali: hm, i had to upgrade fiasco-image-update-ask from version 0.1 to version 0.121:13
keriowhat did you change in the version you pushed to cssu-devel?21:13
PaliI pushed it to extras-devel21:13
Palibecause autobuilder is now working :-)21:13
keriooh, it's -devel21:13
keriostill, you changed something from the deb i had21:14
Palinothing was changed, only autobuilder compiled new binary21:14
keriooh, different compiler version and stuff21:14
kerioi see21:14
Palidifferent md5sum of deb package21:15
Paliwith new timestamp in apt repository, so apt-get will see new version21:15
keriohm, i think that apt checks the md5sums of the files inside, not the md5 of the whole package21:16
kerioanyway, i see21:16
Paliin apt repository there is md5sum21:16
kerioi know, i know :)21:16
PaliDocScrutinizer05, it is possible to detect if there is connected some usb device to n900?21:17
Palior not because hw?21:18
kerioPali: is it possible to tell bq24150 to only draw a certain amount of current?21:21
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PaliIn boost mode you cannot configure anything21:22
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Sicelokerio: thanks. i learned one new command today (well, i'd always heard about dpkg-divert, but never got around to using it) :)21:36
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: no21:58
DocScrutinizer05D+ and D- (aka J / K) will change their level when VBUS boost starts21:59
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DocScrutinizer05but you need to poll to detect this21:59
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DocScrutinizer05and obviously you first need to enable VBUS boost to do anything about it, which you want to do only when you already know there's sth attached to USB22:02
DocScrutinizer05in short: detecting devices on USB host costs constantly ~80mA of battery current22:04
DocScrutinizer05what *might* be detectable was somebody attaching a fake micra-A plug - with ID pin grounded22:06
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infobotmethinks pkg is
kerioDocScrutinizer05: can you elaborate on your last idea?22:58
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: sorry?23:02
DocScrutinizer05which last idea? maybe I suffer from ADHS23:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: grounding the ID pin23:03
DocScrutinizer05the standardized method to signel OTG to switch to hostmode23:04
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keriohold on, isn't that pin unusable on the n900?23:04
DocScrutinizer05the USB ID pin is routed to GAIA/twl403023:04
DocScrutinizer05nope, it works, it's just not connected to where it would really help to do the switching automatically23:05
kerioi see23:06
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DocScrutinizer05while the whole USB moved to 1707 PHY, the ID pin still is connected to GAIA (the chip where original PHY is located, and which got dumped for enabling USB charging)23:07
keriohm, when should my upstart daemon start? on stopped rcS? on started hal?23:08
kerioDocScrutinizer05: why? did they do this on purpose, or did they just botch it?23:08
DocScrutinizer05they didn't bother since they had to frop the whole USB host stuff, since they were not able to satisfy USB cert requirements for OTG, so they replaced the AB receptacle (OTG) by a B (peripheral) one, and didn't care any more about stuff like ID pin23:10
Sicelowhat about hardware modding this?23:10
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DocScrutinizer05and actually, what for?23:17
DocScrutinizer05h-e-n works23:18
DocScrutinizer05nobody ever used OTG23:18
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DocScrutinizer05basically OTG is like the additional pins of a full rs232 plug. Nobody ever needed it, somebody once thought it was a nice idea, but since it wasn't widely adopted there were other alternative methods to accomplish the same thing23:20
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: being able to just connect an adapter to start boost mode would be neat, though23:20
DocScrutinizer05host negotiation protocol, c' mon now rwally?23:21
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I elaborated above that you can implement exactly that with N900 as is23:21
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DocScrutinizer05the ID pin runs from receptacle directly to pin R11 of twl4030. twl4030 in turn has integrated means to detect when that pin gets pulled to GND23:26
keriohold on, so what's the problem?23:26
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DocScrutinizer05kernel doesn't support any of that automatically23:26
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DocScrutinizer05so you need a running hen-daemon (or some kernel patches) that does the booston stuff and hostmode enabling when twl4030 detects ID=GND23:28
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DocScrutinizer05and you need some initialization of twl4030 pin R11, so it detects and acts on ID=GND23:29
DocScrutinizer05usually you could initialize twl4030 in a way so it autoatically starts VBUS chargepump (= boost) and switches PHY and musb_core into host-mode. But in N900 neither PHY nor chargepump/boost are implemented with twl403023:30
DocScrutinizer05so your software needs to detect the ID pin grounding, start bq24150 boostmode and kick musb_core's ass to enter a fake hostmode23:32
DocScrutinizer05if you want to do the complete hassle of patching kernel plus hacking some micro-B_with_ID_grounded adapter, just to avoid having to click on h-e-n icon, you're welcome to provide patches and source addr for adapters23:35
keriowell, the micro-B_with_ID_grounded should be an almost-standard microusb OTG adapter23:36
keriolike the one for the samsung galaxy s223:36
DocScrutinizer05almost, except those adapters have an A plug23:37
DocScrutinizer05not a B23:37
DocScrutinizer05search tmo hostmode thread about several posts like "filing down a N8 adapter to fit into n900"23:38
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the galaxy s2 adapter has a microusb B plug23:38
DocScrutinizer05extremely ugly result, but feasible23:38
DocScrutinizer05hmm, maybe23:38
kerioi'm not sure how or why, afaik it's against the standard23:39
keriobut every picture on the internets shows a B plug23:39
DocScrutinizer05there *are* adapters with micro-B plug though grounded ID pin23:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: anyway, we also have the problem of properly acting like a usb host anyway23:39
keriodetecting/choosing speed and stuff like that23:40
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keriodo one-port usb hubs exist?23:40
DocScrutinizer05for all that no ID pin will help23:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: can the n8x0 act like a usb host more easily?23:40
DocScrutinizer05err yes23:40
keriobecause of the different hardware?23:41
DocScrutinizer05since there the musb_core gets the proper signal from PHY23:41
DocScrutinizer05yes, because of different PHY than N90023:41
keriofigures :(23:41
DocScrutinizer05the N8x0 PHY supports host/A signalling, but it lacks fastcharger D+/- detection23:42
DocScrutinizer05the twl4030 PHY is supposed to support both, but has a silicon erratum23:43
DocScrutinizer05that's why Nokia did a late redesign and switched to 1707 PHY23:43
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DocScrutinizer05NB that *all* of my statements about Nokia's motivations and actions are mere personal guesses23:45
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DocScrutinizer05fact however is that the 1707 ID input is hardwired to VDD (high), and the 1707 doesn't support emulation of grounding that pin like the PHY in N8x0 does, so there's no way to switch musb_core to proper OTG/host mode23:48
DocScrutinizer05since for that the musb_core needs a message from PHY telling it that ID pin got grounded23:49
DocScrutinizer05and musb_core is a friggin statemachine with really limited options to change state from software side23:50
vi_I bet somone gets fired for every silicon erratum.23:50
DocScrutinizer05I.E. the message from PHY is the *only* way to put musb_core statemachine into true hostmode23:50
DocScrutinizer05so what h-e-n does is to exploit a TEST mode meant for debugging, to simulate hostmode of musb_core23:51
DocScrutinizer05alas that TEST mode is lacking a lot of nicer features like automatic speed negotiation23:52
DocScrutinizer05so now you got the whole N900 hostmode/h-e-n story in a nutshell23:52
DocScrutinizer05btw I just recall there are indeed also other methods to switch musb_core to A/host state: HNP. That's what egoshin and MohammadAG originally did23:56
DocScrutinizer05alas it's extremely utterly non-reliable23:57
DocScrutinizer05since it involves messing around with VBUS levels (among other weird kinky stuff you need to do to successfully complete a HNP host role handover)23:58
DocScrutinizer05so we finally ditched that concept and started "from scratch" targeting the TEST method23:59

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