IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-12-07

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freemangordonXATRIX: ctrl-a00:05
XATRIXalready found it00:06
freemangordonyou've been told this is almost like desktop distribution, ain't?00:06
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XATRIXNot actually :)00:11
XATRIXOK..see you guys, good night!00:12
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FIQso how do I turn off HAM update notifications?01:51
FIQor, "turn off"01:51
FIQaka "set check-update something high"01:52
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GeneralAntillesApple's really obsessed with advertising features they and everybody else have had forever as new, genius inventions.03:13
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internetishardIs it possible my n900 can't get 3G with any carrier in the bay area?!05:10
internetishardI switched to another that promises HSPA+, and now I'm assuming that all HSPA+ is on a different frequency than 1900mhz...05:11
internetishardAny ideas?05:11
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DocScrutinizer05internetishard: N900 supports several UMTS frequencies, but some US carriers abuse GSM/2G bands for UMTS and that's beyond what N900 BB5 can handle07:39
DocScrutinizer05typically those carriers have no 2G service either, so they are completely incompatible to N90007:40
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Sc0rpiusN900 ONLY support 900 and 2100 in UMTS.07:55
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Sc0rpiusthat makes the N900 totally unusable in most countries except Europe07:55
ds3works fine in the US07:57
Sc0rpiuswith T-Mobile only07:57
Sc0rpius(we're talking 3G by the way)07:57
Sc0rpiusin this side of the world 3G (UMTS) frequencies are either 850, 1800 or 1900 MHz07:57
Sc0rpiusand N900 3G is 900/2100.07:57
ds3TMO is all that matters07:57
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ds3I will not do business with that orange abomination in the US08:01
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ds3bastards try to send me a bill like 6months after I canceled (within the first week) for usage 5 months later...wtf08:02
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DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: WCDMA Band I (2100) WCDMA Band IV (1700/2100) WCDMA Band VIII (900)08:12
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: and "your side of the world" 850 and 1900 are originally defined as GSM frequencies08:14
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DocScrutinizer05carriers that use those bands for UMTS are basicaly violating international agreements08:15
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DocScrutinizer05   and   and
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DocScrutinizer05don't blame Nokia for protectionist politics/policies of USA - they always prefer to run their own standards incompatible to the rest of the world, probably to protect their markets08:26
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: also it's not "rest of the world, except Europe" that disobeys those standards. Rather it's basically just "the americas" that are such a mess, while "rest of the world" has no such problems08:29
DocScrutinizer05get it, USA is third world regarding mobile phones08:30
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Corsacgrbml, smartsearch using 100% cpu08:40
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DocScrutinizer05"smart" rulez08:45
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DocScrutinizer05continuing to idly mude about band allocation for mobile services, I notice that 900/1800 is a sane technically based decision (1. harmonic falls into upper band), while USA opted for a totally weird 850/1900 and "justified" that by "military use of 900" iirc. They never where short of lame excuses for their protectionist politics09:07
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DocScrutinizer05>>GSM-850 and GSM-1900 are used in Argentina, Brazil, Canada, the United States and many other countries in the Americas.<<
DocScrutinizer05[while GSM900/1800 is used in the sane rest of the world, so this 'cinflict' is as old as GSM]09:12
DocScrutinizer05the extremely funny part in all this: obviously UMTS on 850/1900 does NOT conflict with "military use" of same bands in USA09:14
* RST38h is sure it is a conspiracy09:15
DocScrutinizer05it however conveniently conflicts with GSM use of same bands in rest of the world09:15
RST38hBTW, apparently they turned GSM off in the US09:15
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: don't get me started09:15
RST38hAt least, GSM phones no longer work09:16
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keriothe american mobile phone situation is the product of free market09:19
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DocScrutinizer05prototypically shows that free market tends to pervert, since it's driven solely by short term economic interest09:20
DocScrutinizer05so why use 900/1800 and allow cheap chinese mobile phones, when you can opt for 850/1900 and sell your own special proprietary phones for several times more money09:22
DocScrutinizer05forget about global roaming, 99% of US citizens not even know there's land behind the huge waters starting at the US coasts09:24
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: comeon, that's not true, they are very well aware where they came from :P09:25
kerioafaik you can't even legally use your own phone on US mobile networks09:26
kerioor something09:26
DocScrutinizer05I bet they think Russia is North of Canada, and Europe and Asia are part of that, and Africa an island south-east of europe russian province09:26
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, got my sarcasm day it seems. Take it easy, my US resident friends ;-)09:28
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: afaik that's only true for Japan and Korea09:32
DocScrutinizer05there might be other countries with similar policies (only registered approved IMEI allowed to log in), but USA definitely isn't one of them09:33
keriohm, i definetely remember something like that for the US, though09:34
kerioperhaps it was landlines09:34
DocScrutinizer05such policy isn't feasible in countries with 2000 small carrier supply areas like in USA09:34
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DocScrutinizer05 is quite enlightening09:44
DocScrutinizer05probably reding a lot of boring reports about ITU and 3GPP meetings, and see how many US-based carries DGAF, might also shed some light on the issue09:49
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DocScrutinizer05  (US member of ITU and 3GPP) >>In the United States, ATIS competes with a number of other network equipment standards developers, including IEEE and the Telecommunications Industry Association.<<09:55
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DocScrutinizer05that's free market for you09:57
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: (landlines) for sure not, since historically all the "free" landline terminal equipment like phones, TAM, FAX, modem, all came or were targeted at US market mainly10:09
DocScrutinizer05came from*10:09
DocScrutinizer05RJ11 is an american invention I'd think10:10
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DocScrutinizer05>>Bell System owned the phones and did not allow interconnection of separate phones or other terminal equipment<<  >>This began to change with the case Hush-A-Phone v. United States [1956] and the FCC's Carterfone [1968] decision...<<10:16
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Devilinsidehey , need deb of skype for n90011:54
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure it's available as .deb12:16
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infobotpkg is, like,
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DocScrutinizer05maybe and, in addition to all those pkgs showing up under searchterm "skype" in pkg interface12:19
DocScrutinizer05Devilinside: ^^^12:24
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Devilinsideovi repo isn working here. yeah, i found those two packages.12:45
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Devilinsideskype is avaolable on ovi, but it usually doesnt work.12:45
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Devilinsidethose two packages are already the nwest version.12:49
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brzyshey, is there deb of netcat? i was looking in extras,testing and devel but no luck12:51
tadzikget nmap, there's also ncat inside12:53
brzysthanks tadzik, i have it already installed, just figured sec that is ncat <facepalm>12:58
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DocScrutinizer05netcat vs ncat driving me nuts every once in a while12:59
DocScrutinizer05I usually mv ncat netcat12:59
DocScrutinizer05nc another one13:00
brzysprefer nc, less to type :)13:00
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DocScrutinizer05alas iirc that's ambiguous13:01
tadziknc, mc, dc, bc...13:02
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Devilinsidethnx its done :)13:13
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DocScrutinizer05Devilinside: it worked?13:36
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Devilinsidethnx.. :)13:46
MohammadAGBah, i need an OTG cable for the Galaxy S3 :/13:48
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teotwakiThere's just so much win in that picture!14:08
teotwaki"My Beethoven playlist on Pandora picked a song from Braveheart, on a Star Trek album, with Titanic album art. Where is this CD and how do I get it?"14:08
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ShadowJKa song from braveheart in star trek?14:37
ShadowJKmust be  from Insurrection14:37
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ShadowJKoh, khan14:38
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keriodammit, why can't the skype plugin be removed easily?14:53
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MohammadAGkerio, delete file list, keep deb, dpkg happy14:55
kerioMohammadAG: no u14:55
keriodpkg is the law14:55
keriohm, apparently the problem is skype-ui-l10n-*14:55
keriowtf, why does rtcom-accounts-ui depend on that?14:56
MohammadAGcause maemo deps are fucked up?14:56
MohammadAGor they packed a library in the language files14:56
keriousually dependencies like that are actually legit14:56
MohammadAGwhichever seems funnier14:56
kerioi guess it's something stupid like using a localized string in skype-ui-l10n-mr014:56
MohammadAGwell, most probably14:57
keriooh well, i just need to leave the localization there i guess14:57
kerioeverything else gets removed fine14:58
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, hi, did you tried to backup nolo, kernel & rootfs to one fiasco file via 0xFFFF?15:10
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kerioPali: that kind of backup would be useless15:12
kerioyou need the exact optfs too15:12
Palikerio, ok, so tar -czf opt.tag.gz /opt/ do that job?15:13
kerioyes, but the problem is in restoring that :)15:13
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Palikerio, maybe creating some kernel image with initfs image which will export mmc via usb...15:14
MohammadAGWe need something like Android's recovery15:14
kerioPali: rescueOS :)15:14
kerioor at least, something built upon rescueOS15:14
Palikerio, one option15:14
MohammadAGdidn't we have a hidden partition at some poitn?15:14
keriobut at that point you don't really need to make fiasco images15:14
MohammadAGor am I mixing up devices15:15
kerioMohammadAG: we do have initfs, actually15:15
kerioit's kinda small afaik15:15
MohammadAGhow small?15:15
keriohold on, checking15:15
Paliwe can send initfs image via flasher or 0xFFFF15:15
Pali2 or 4 MB15:15
kerioMohammadAG: same as kernel15:15
Paliis initfs partition15:15
Paliif same as kernel then 2MB15:15
keriohm, it's not a lot15:15
MohammadAGactually, it kind of is15:16
MohammadAGit'd hold the bare minimum15:16
keriothe rescueOS initrd is 12mb15:16
Palibetter to use flasher/0xFFFF to send own kernel with own initfs without flashing15:16
MohammadAGrescueOS isn't bare minimum then :P15:16
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kerioMohammadAG: it's enough to get a fbcon shell15:17
keriousb mass storage, usb networking15:17
keriowifi (if you load the firmware from somewhere)15:17
kerioMohammadAG: the current on-device restore still requires a working *something*15:17
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keriouboot + sd is enough to load rescueOS15:18
keriowhich is enough for everything15:18
MohammadAGwhat you'd need is working microSD, which is provided by kernel, and tar15:18
MohammadAGplus a scripted UI15:18
kerioso you'd need xloader+nolo+uboot15:18
kerioMohammadAG: aka a "standalone" version of backupmenu15:18
kerioMohammadAG: you also need a way to boot it, though15:19
kerioMohammadAG: how much can be wrecked and still get that to function?15:20
MohammadAGwell, you need a working bootloader15:21
MohammadAGand a kernel15:21
MohammadAGbut that's about it15:21
kerioMohammadAG: because backupmenu doesn't require a lot15:21
MohammadAGbut those devices have recovery partitions larger than 2MB15:21
MohammadAGlemme check how much the S3 has15:21
kerioMohammadAG: the n900 has up to 64gb of storage15:21
MohammadAGmtd blocks, not so much15:22
keriothe emmc is always there15:22
MohammadAGI'm talking about something that could run without any external storage15:22
keriook then, 32gb15:22
MohammadAGthat's external :p15:22
MohammadAGgo back to the OneNAND15:22
kerioit's an EMBEDDED memory card15:22
MohammadAGstill, it's user data15:22
MohammadAGyou could break something when partitioning it15:22
kerionot /home :)15:22
kerioMohammadAG: i bet that you can't fit a pseudographical restore system in 2mb15:23
MohammadAGfor an advanced touch recovery15:23
kerioalso, where are you going to backup/restore?15:23
kerioif it's a sd, then just require something to be put there, ffs15:23
MohammadAGthat's where you could mount the 32GB15:23
MohammadAGlike MyDocs15:24
kerioMohammadAG: if mydocs is hosed, you want to repartition it, reformat it, and restore from usd15:24
kerioand now you also need fdisk, mkfs.vfat and mkfs.ext315:24
MohammadAGhmm, didn't think of that15:25
MohammadAGCWM recovery just formats, then unpacks an .img15:25
keriothat's what backupmenu does for /home15:26
kerioit does a rm -rf and an unpack for rootfs, because ubifs is tough as fuck15:27
kerioand because nobody understands how to fix it15:27
kerioactually no, it's because to load backupmenu you need rootfs to be at least partially working, and that includes not being fucked up15:27
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; hey have you seen some people "fixing" cellmo issue by adding spring to push down cellmo chips?15:29
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: nope, that's news to me15:29
DocScrutinizer05wow, awesome!15:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: so the issue is really a bad soldering15:36
kerioit's not that some batches have defective chips15:36
DocScrutinizer05well, that's already expected15:37
DocScrutinizer05though it *could* as well be poor bonding combined with poor sealing of the BGA balls15:37
keriobtw, won't pushing on the chip eventually cause it to fail?15:38
DocScrutinizer05but incomplete soldering under BGA chips is far form being unheard15:38
DocScrutinizer05kerio: shouldn't15:38
kerioespecially if, for instance, you drop your n900 on the ground15:38
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ShadowJKnvidia had some issues with some of their chips15:39
DocScrutinizer05the chip's sealing shouldn't be plastically deformable15:39
DocScrutinizer05it's supposed to be ceramic material that doesn't permanently deform15:40
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DocScrutinizer05btw this extremely hard case material of the chips creates a lot of the problems seen during reflow and when dropping the final product thus bending the PCB15:42
kerioi see15:42
keriocan't we make everything out of that material? :315:42
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I think there are PCB made of ceramic15:43
DocScrutinizer05but probably that would just crack into pieces when you drop the device15:43
keriodo you want your device to be flexible then?15:44
kerioit could deform if you make it too flexible15:44
DocScrutinizer05I actually just a minute ago started thinking about chips with spring loaded BGA soldering balls15:45
DocScrutinizer05which could mitigate a lot of those problems15:46
DocScrutinizer050.1mm bearing play up/down and sideways was already sufficient I guess15:47
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DocScrutinizer05of course building those microsprings into the PCB pads and not soldering the chip at all but simply pressing it on the pads could also work quite nicely15:49
DocScrutinizer05probably you'd want gold plated BGA balls on the chip for that15:50
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* kerio is happy of studying math instead of EE15:50
keriothis real world things seem really tough!15:51
teotwakiby the way15:51
teotwakiwhat's the usb-connector fix?15:51
DocScrutinizer05indeed that's exactly the notion I detected on a lot of programmers coming from the math side as well15:51
teotwakiIs it fixable?15:51
kerioteotwaki: "kinda"15:52
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: hmm?15:52
infobotfrom memory, usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)15:52
keriothe better you are at soldering, the greater the damage you can fix15:52
DocScrutinizer05or what?15:52
ShadowJKI haven't had a single usb port fail, it might be due to how I unplug15:52
teotwakiMy N900, currently in use by my girlfriend, has been showing "charging" a lot, sometimes.15:52
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the math side has different problems :315:52
kerioteotwaki: huh?15:52
keriooh, it thinks it's charging?=15:52
teotwakinot really15:52
keriodoes the physical connector work?15:52
teotwakiwhen it's plugged in15:53
keriooh :(15:53
teotwakithere seems to be a bad connection15:53
DocScrutinizer05either plug or receptacle or soldering of the latter15:53
DocScrutinizer05or your PSU is defect ;-D15:54
ShadowJKor wire, my first car charger's wire got bad15:54
DocScrutinizer05or cable broken15:54
* DocScrutinizer05 highfives ShadowJK15:54
teotwakiwill check it out15:59
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: first test a new/different charger, or simply PC15:59
teotwakiyeah, will use the heavy duty Palm charger.15:59
DocScrutinizer05if it still fails in same way, see16:00
infobotsomebody said usbfix was - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)16:00
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DocScrutinizer05but also check the USB receptacle's contacts, sometimes they get bent or corroded or simply dirty16:00
DocScrutinizer05it's not unusual that a defect USB plug destroys the receptacle's contacts16:01
DocScrutinizer05or some debris got into the receptacle16:02
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ShadowJKI almost did that the other day16:07
ShadowJKbut spotted the crapp in n900 usb port in last second16:07
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders to which temperature you'd need to pre-heat the complete N900 PCB so you could successfully reflow the BB5 chips with hot air16:15
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DocScrutinizer05probably finding out about the reflow temperature profile used in N900 PCB assembly would be rather useful for that16:17
DocScrutinizer05friggin reflow is kinda voodoo magic16:18
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DocScrutinizer05evidence: Nokia failed on several BB5 chips when doing reflow16:19
ShadowJKare the boards moved through ovens with different temperaures?16:19
DocScrutinizer05yep, usually16:19
ShadowJKdo these have airflow too?16:19
ShadowJKor still air16:19
DocScrutinizer05several minutes pre-heat, then ramp up to max during 30s, keep it at max for 10s, ramp down to chillout temp and keep it there for another minute, then slowly cool down16:20
DocScrutinizer05usually IR and still air16:20
DocScrutinizer05or very smooth airflow16:21
DocScrutinizer05on top of IR16:21
DocScrutinizer05honestly I don't know much about rwflow16:21
DocScrutinizer05it's an own art16:21
ShadowJKthe concept of temperature in presence of IR seems daunting to me16:21
DocScrutinizer05well, in every environment you got air- and radiation-temperature16:22
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DocScrutinizer05the trick with reflow is to balance the two16:23
DocScrutinizer05and to have a proper profile16:23
ShadowJKis the temperature profile supposed to represent air temperature or actual temperature of some board component..16:24
SpeedEvilvapour phase reflow has also been used, and has some advantages16:24
SpeedEvilbit is uncommon16:24
SpeedEvilno mention of tin whisker16:27
SpeedEvilseen: ?16:28
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: >>Note: All temperatures refer to topside of the package, measured on the package body surface<<16:29
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DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: dafaq! tin whiskers :-o16:32
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DocScrutinizer05this friggin germanium transistor looks strangely familiar to me, even inside ;-D16:33
SpeedEvilis fun too16:33
SpeedEvilit's not just a small signal problem16:33
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; hm, so when usin IR, the board temp would be different depending on the board mask color, even if top of package temp was same? :-)16:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: well, yes and no.16:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: colour is far IR colour16:35
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's the magic16:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: most organic materials have emissivities close to 116:35
SpeedEvilin the far IR16:35
SpeedEvilto the point that making low emissivity paints is really hard16:35
DocScrutinizer05in one factory I visited a reflow street, and they had those test objects there, with sophisticated temperature sensors of all kinds on the board16:36
DocScrutinizer05really experienced guys tune the oven for half a day, so results obtained with such test objects were inside the defined profile16:37
DocScrutinizer05and the factors that influende such tuning are even such things like "shadowing" by shielding blades on the board etc16:39
DocScrutinizer05of course board thickness and other board properties (copper ground planes etc), chips' size, whatnot else16:40
DocScrutinizer05and when you've tuned the oven with those test objects, you run a number of sample boards, then check the soldering with xray etc, then do some finetuning of the profile16:41
DocScrutinizer05run another number of samples... rinse, restart16:42
ShadowJKThe supplier of dies at $work switched to a surface finish with low emissivity and high reflectivity, had been totally opposite before. We usually use IR sensors to check whether thermocouples are still giving reasonably OK readings or not. It was kinda confusing at first before we realized what was going on.16:42
SpeedEvilIR is amusing16:43
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DocScrutinizer05for the accuracy *inside* the die it's for sure better when they have reflective surface16:43
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SpeedEviltake a kettle, place a sheet of aluminium foil over it, and boil it.16:44
ShadowJKSwitched/switching to pt100, nicer stability over time, and failure modes are nicer16:44
SpeedEvilpoint ir at sheet, measure temp of ceiling16:44
SpeedEvilspray with a tiny coat of oil - 100c16:44
SpeedEvilI want to make a IR thermometer good for measuring the temp of single BGAs balls.16:45
SpeedEvilthis is hard.16:45
DocScrutinizer05seems terribly hard16:46
SpeedEvilas part of a longer term project to do laser dead bug soldering16:46
SpeedEvilmuktilayer PCBs are expensive16:47
DocScrutinizer05how would you even *look* at a BGA ball that's supposed to be/get soldered to a pad?16:47
SpeedEvilI'm wondering on alternatives16:47
SpeedEvildead bug16:47
SpeedEvilapply tinned 0.1mm wire to surface of ball, straight down. hit with laser to melt the ball, and feed wire in.16:48
SpeedEvilideally it ends up with a nice solder joint, with the enamel remaining almost until it goes into the ball16:49
DocScrutinizer05but what you gonna do with a chip with wires all over it?16:50
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SpeedEvilautomatic point to point wiring16:50
SpeedEvilit's 1940 again :-)16:51
DocScrutinizer05PCB making roof-down :-)16:51
DocScrutinizer05sounds like a nice alternative concept16:52
SpeedEvilif it works, then 20 wires per minute is fairly plausible.16:52
DocScrutinizer05glue all the components to a board upside down, then wire the while mess16:53
SpeedEviland though that's not a really great production technique...16:53
DocScrutinizer05meh, it sounds great regarding some aspects16:53
SpeedEvilthere are major issues16:54
DocScrutinizer05but it's missing one extremely important detail: shielding/heatsinks16:54
SpeedEvilimpedence control is 'interesting'16:54
SpeedEviland that.16:54
SpeedEvilpotting in thermal compound against a plate goes some way.16:55
SpeedEvilbut has its own issues16:55
DocScrutinizer05well, on BGA the balls are also thermal vias16:56
SpeedEvilI mean potting the wiring side16:57
DocScrutinizer05while thermal resistance to top of case is undefined and usually poor16:57
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SpeedEvilit's never going to be a good replacement generally.16:58
SpeedEvilcould it be useful - perhaps16:58
DocScrutinizer05well, for certain usecases it is for sure a good rapid design alternative16:59
DocScrutinizer05signal separation though is a nightmare16:59
DocScrutinizer05crosstalk rather16:59
SpeedEvilvery much16:59
SpeedEvilone very silly idea I had.17:00
SpeedEvilconformal coat it.17:00
SpeedEvilfill with low melt solder17:00
SpeedEvilin practice, likely not to work due to thermal expansion17:00
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* DocScrutinizer05 waves17:03
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DocScrutinizer05180min til meeting, need to get some shopping etc done17:03
lnxmenI have some problems with /usr/sbin/browserd - it's eating my cpu -,-17:04
DocScrutinizer05killall browserd17:04
lnxmenDoesn't work17:04
SpeedEvilhave fun17:04
DocScrutinizer05anyway, bbl17:05
lnxmenDocScrutinizer05: the process is starting anew itself17:05
ShadowJKIt renders browser stuff, and also Conversations17:07
lnxmenIs any way to kill it?17:07
tadzikyou realize that it would make Conversations stop working?17:08
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lnxmenokay, I wouldn't want to stop Conversations17:11
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DocScrutinizer05a) find out which of the several browserd processes eats CPU, b) find out what it's doing, c) fix the source of the problem17:12
DocScrutinizer05  PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND17:12
DocScrutinizer05 1697 ?        Ssl    0:00 /usr/sbin/browserd -d17:12
DocScrutinizer05 2177 ?        Sl     0:03  \_ /usr/sbin/browserd -s 2177 -n browserui17:12
DocScrutinizer05 9487 ?        Sl     0:04  \_ /usr/sbin/browserd -s 9487 -n RTComMessagingServer17:12
DocScrutinizer05strace is your friend17:14
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kerioguys, what do you use to block ads?18:25
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kerioiDont: 'lo20:39
iDontkerio, hi!20:40
iDontit's Friday :)20:40
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fastlane`4 minutes to saturday here20:59
Cor-Aisux! got 4 hours!21:00
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kerioAoyagi: clearly, that means that you must buy a n900 really quickly22:09
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Aoyagikerio: I'm working on fixing mistake of not having one yet as fast as I can.22:12
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kerioi wonder if i should install the actual flashblock and drop this silly css adblocker for microb22:12
kerioand maybe add some adblocking to the hosts file22:13
AoyagiWhich reminds me22:13
AoyagiAny idea what version of Opera run on N900?22:14
kerioopera mobile 1222:14
keriowhich is a surprisingly competent mobile browser22:14
AoyagiAnd great.22:14
kerioabout as capable as opera mini on a s60 phone, but also very, very light22:15
AoyagiWell, Mini is lesser version.22:15
AoyagiJava or something.22:16
kerioopera mobile only adds local rendering, pretty much22:16
AoyagiAnd some options.22:16
kerioit's a "lo-fi" browser22:16
keriowell ofc22:16
keriomind you, opera mini was godly22:16
AoyagiIt's in Java :S22:17
keriohave you ever used it on a fast s60 nokia phone?22:17
AoyagiI have both mobile and mini on N95.22:17
kerion95, 6120c or greater22:17
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Aoyagias well as N97, but I don't consider N97 a fast phone.22:17
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vi_do you think dnsmasq adblock would be heavier than hostsfile?22:18
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keriovi_: i'm not sure, is /etc/hosts read on every gethostbyname?22:19
vi_I imagine it must be.22:19
keriothen maybe a dnsmasq configuration could be lighter22:19
vi_A good hosts block file seems to weigh in at ~500K22:19
vi_A good hosts block file seems to weigh in at ~500kB22:20
kerioAoyagi: opera mobile on the n900 even has a way to enable single-column rendering22:20
vi_Corsac: what is that?22:20
Corsac(on a std linux desktop)22:20
kerioCorsac: ty22:20
vi_what is it?22:20
Aoyagikerio: I'm pretty sure that option has been in it ever since :/22:20
Corsacvi_: strace of a getaddrinfo()22:21
Corsac(more or less)22:21
kerioAoyagi: it's *good* if the page is simple22:21
AoyagiO ye.22:21
kerioAoyagi: anyway, microb is teh shit22:21
kerioand it's preinstalled22:21
* Aoyagi consults the internet22:21
vi_kerio: it is getting OOLLLDDD.22:21
kerioAoyagi: gecko-based preinstalled browser22:22
vi_old render engine.22:22
AoyagiI'm an Opera person.22:22
kerioAoyagi: oh, you're one of *those*22:22
vi_no html 5.22:22
vi_if only there was a way to update the backend.22:23
keriovi_: technically it's all open source22:23
AoyagiIt's either Opera or FF and frankly, Opera usually has the ideas sooner, plus it has in-built e-mail and IRC clients, both extremely lightweight. :D22:23
keriovi_: it's gecko!22:23
kerioAoyagi: it's also closed-source22:23
vi_Aoyagi: yes, but the email and irc clients suck.22:24
Aoyagikerio: I'm OK with that when it comes to these three things. Dunno what else would I want with them :D22:24
vi_also, it totally chokes on some pages so you have to revert to FF.22:24
kerioAoyagi: well, the bestest IRC client on the n900 is xchat22:25
keriothe "adaptation" is done really competently22:25
keriovi_: osso-xterm is a piece of crap22:25
AoyagiWhat do you mean suck? ^^22:25
keriowhich terminal do you use?22:25
Aoyagikerio: Yeah, I'll probably go with xchat.22:25
vi_I tried to use mrxvt but I cannot change the font size.22:25
keriovi_: but osso-xterm sucks, how can you irssi from it?22:26
vi_quite easily.22:26
vi_The only thing osso lacks is middle click paste.22:26
keriourl opening22:26
vi_and 80x24 mode.22:26
kerioclick on a URL to open it22:27
vi_osso DOES open URLS22:27
kerioreally? :O22:27
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vi_click on an url and  you are presented 2 choices.22:27
vi_browser or copy22:27
ds3possible a stupid question - is it possible to initiate a video session from the N900 (using Jingle/XMPP) to an existing jabber contact?22:27
keriods3: not with the default software, afaik22:27
keriods3: installing a client... sure, why not?22:28
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ds3kerio: ah... I know i can receive it22:28
ds3which clients will let me do that?22:28
vi_ds3: what do you mean video session?22:28
ds3vi_: yes, video call22:28
ds3or voice22:28
vi_google talk22:28
ds3GTalk I guess22:28
vi_google talk is xmpp22:28
vi_kind of.22:28
ds3but that is suppose to be just another Jingle/XMPP setup22:28
keriods3: maybe you can configure a gtalk account and change the server to your liking? idk22:29
kerioanyway, any linux client *should* work fine, once compiled22:29
ds3kerio: I have just a normal jabber account. I have received video calls from people on gtalk22:30
ds3trying to see if I can initiate it22:30
keriods3: on the n900? :o22:30
vi_he wants a conversations plugin though.22:30
ds3yes, on the N90022:30
keriowith the builtin software? :O :O :O22:31
kerioi never knew it was a thing22:31
keriovi_: what the fuck, why didn't anyone tell me22:31
ds3I was surprised that it worked22:31
Aoyagikerio: And that exactly is why I'm most likely going to love the phone.22:31
kerioAoyagi: because i didn't know it supported gtalk video calls?22:32
vi_wait. what.22:32
vi_jabber can talk to gtalk?22:32
keriogtalk is jabber22:32
AoyagiBecause you've had it for {time of ownership} years and haven't learned it until now.22:32
keriofairly standard, too22:32
vi_wtf is going on?22:32
ds3gtalk is just another federated jabber setup22:32
vi_and jabber is xmpp?22:33
kerioi never understood the difference actually22:33
keriojabber is like IM on top of XMPP22:33
ds3yes, jabber is xmpp22:33
vi_so I can video call my jabber buddies?22:34
vi_too bad I do not have a jabber account...22:34
vi_...or any buddies :(22:34
ds3create one22:35
ds3jabber accounts are free22:35
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keriovi_: i'll be your buddy, buddy22:35
kerioi need a jabber account though22:35
keriods3: don't you also need server support for voice/video?22:36
keriowhat the hell, why is my battery drained all of a sudden22:37
keriowhy did i have 162 wakeups/second?22:37
ds3kerio: I am not clear... some suggests it doesn't22:37
ds3it is the jingle extension22:37
ds3might be like a CTCP in IRC22:37
ds3time for a new battery?22:38
keriods3: nah, high power consumption22:38
keriofor some reason22:38
ds3something doing a while(1);?22:38
kerionah, it's not cpu usage per se22:38
kerioit's wakeups22:39
kerioPali: i bet it's your applet's fault!22:40
keriowell, you *are* running a huge part of my phone actually :)22:41
kerioso it's probably your fault, just by random chance22:41
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kerioi've got your kernel, your charging system, your battery applet, and a bunch of stuff from CSSU22:42
kerioit's either yours, fmg's, or nokia's fault22:42
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Paliand what is the problem?22:43
keriolots of wakeups drained my battery a bit22:44
kerionot sure why, powertop says nothing22:44
keriomeh, i don't really get it22:45
kerionow the situation is back to normal22:45
kerioooh, i bet it's luf's bluez22:45
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keriods3: reading on TMO (, the maemo forum) that it seems that the video call can only be initiated from a different client :(22:46
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vi_kerio: if you go to this link:22:50
vi_you will get the gmail touch interfae.22:51
vi_you will get the gmail touch interface.22:51
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AoyagiI'd never thing you guys would use gmail :322:53
kerioi do22:54
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AoyagiBleh, firefox's config is horrible :S23:00
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HurrianPali: have you found the IRC logs?23:42
PaliI did not tried to find them yet23:43
PaliHurrian, now writing/patching arch netcfg bash scripts... I'm going to remove NetworkManager from my disk...23:43
HurrianPali, too much bloat?23:44
HurrianOh, and why not simply "systemctl enable dhcpcd@eth0.service"?23:44
Palibecause I need 8021X on ethernet23:45
Paliand I need something which can autoconnect to normal ethernet network & also to configured 8021x auth23:46
Hurrianah, authentication.23:46
Paliand I also want something which can connect to available wifi networks automatically23:47
Paliand some modular system where I can create new module for some new connection type23:47
Pali(e.g. hostapd for wifi ap)23:47
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Paliand next missing feature is something for switching default route with dns servers...23:48
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