IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-12-04

FIQwhich succeed00:00
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: I'd be interested in new N900 with warranty and original package00:00
DocScrutinizer05for that price00:00
FIQDocScrutinizer05: for 600€?00:00
DocScrutinizer05no, 15000:00
FIQor 150€? :P00:00
FIQme too00:00
FIQbm don00:01
tadzikI see 5 units with 24 months warranty for 699 PLN00:01
tadzikthat's 169€00:01
FIQ=gcalc 699 PLN in EUR00:01
DocScrutinizer05could you get me 2 of them please?00:01
tadzikwe can arrange that00:01
* FIQ wants one00:01
tadzikI can't guarantee how legit those are00:02
kerioi kinda want one too, but my parents will think that i'm crazy if keep buying the same phone over and over00:02
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FIQkerio: lol00:02
kerioi mean, more crazy00:02
FIQjust tell them that they don't understand00:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: tell your parents that uncle doc allowed it00:03
kerioyeah, that'll go well00:03
FIQkerio: my parents told me that I acted like oldies that don't do new tech stuff00:03
FIQwhen I considered getting *one* new n900 as my old one is starting to fall apart00:03
FIQ(yes, not just usb issue)00:03
kerioFIQ: well... it's kinda true00:03
FIQkerio: but there aren't any replacements :(00:04
kerioi know! :(00:04
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AoyagiWhen "new tech stuff" is something, that's less open than a virgin, well, I think I'll pass.00:04
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: that's the problem with legit, I hoped for your knowing the language to be able and check that out00:04
FIQAoyagi: this new iphone 5 would suite you perfectly then!00:04
AoyagiI think you misunderstood me there :P00:05
FIQcompletely forgot00:05
FIQso what did jolla have to say?00:05
gomiamok, time for me disconnect. Once again, thanks a bunch for your help, and have fun.00:06
gomiams/ me / me to /00:06
infobotgomiam meant: ok, time for me to disconnect. Once again, thanks a bunch for your help, and have fun.00:06
keriotake care00:06
DocScrutinizer05they say they might come up with a new device next summer, but alas the OS/desktop is *very* HARM-alike. So it's basically a portrait-only phone00:06
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FIQDocScrutinizer05: aw00:07
FIQwell if it's open, it can be fixed, right?00:07
AoyagiWell I heard Nokia might have some Android plans.00:07
kerioFIQ: and no keyboard!00:07
FIQnvm then00:07
kerioso there's that00:07
tadzikDocScrutinizer05: well. They claim them new, with Service Warranty00:07
FIQAoyagi: ...00:07
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: yep, it *can* be fixed. Like KDE4 *can* get fixed00:07
FIQnokia tried everything *but* android00:08
FIQit avoided it like the pest lol00:08
tadzikthis is an auction-thingy however, like ebay, so you never truly know00:08
FIQso it's considering jumping on the android train now?00:08
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: could you give them a call and make sure it's unusued factory-new stuff in original packaging?00:08
AoyagiFIQ:,19495.html it's a rumor, of course. It might as well be MeeGo.00:09
AoyagiOooor nothing at all.00:09
FIQmeego? nokia wont do that00:09
FIQor.. well00:09
FIQnokia has been very confusing the latest years00:09
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: of course I'll pay all your expenses00:09
tadzikDocScrutinizer05: I can write them an email if that's fine with you00:09
jon_ysummon Mi-Go00:09
AoyagiOf course, they have a M$ saboteur :P00:09
FIQ@ frals00:09
FIQjon_y: you make me think of pokémon now..00:10
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: sure00:10
jon_ywell, there was that lovecraft-pokemon crossover00:10
FIQ"Mi-Go", that is00:10
AoyagiWild Mi-Go appears.00:10
FIQ(which I read as ho-oh at first)00:10
jon_yall the trainers are kids because adults will go insane00:11
FIQAoyagi: WP used Charm00:11
jon_yiirc pokethulu or something00:11
AoyagiMi-Go is confused.00:12
jon_yall the mons were freaky butt ugly ersatz00:12
FIQok so jolla is making a meego-phone w/o keyboard00:12
tadzikthere's another offer where they have...00:12
tadzik98 devices. 12 months warranty00:12
FIQjon_y: i never liked romhacks that featured fakemons, i'm sure i would like that even less00:13
jon_yFIQ: the game was paper and pencil like Call of Cthulhu00:13
FIQjon_y: heh00:13
jon_yso perfectly fine to make up your own mons00:13
tadzikDocScrutinizer05: sent them a question00:13
FIQAbout lack of keyboard00:14
FIQThere was this kickstarter earlier.. of a keyboard you could connect to whichever phone you wanted00:14
FIQHave anyone of you tried something like that?00:14
FIQconnected to bt, etc00:14
FIQi.e. how well does stuff like that work?00:15
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: thanks a lot, mate00:15
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FIQi'm wondering if it could potentially solve vendors complete refusal of bundling phones with ak eyboard00:16
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tadzikDocScrutinizer05: you're welcome00:16
FIQs/k e/ ke/00:16
infobotFIQ meant: i'm wondering if it could potentially solve vendors complete refusal of bundling phones with a keyboard00:16
kerioFIQ: bluetooth keyboards do exist00:16
FIQkerio: yeah, i know00:16
FIQbasically I asked how good they work00:16
FIQif they can replace a real one nicely, etc00:16
kerioit depends00:17
kerio this one is a fucking beast, or so i've been told00:17
FIQthe one I looked at (but didn't buy) @kickstarter also featured game buttons00:17
keriofor "compact" ones00:17
FIQand would be generally awesome if it worked well00:17
keriothe kickstarter one is even more compact i think00:17
kerioor possibly the same00:18
kerioyep, the one on kickstarter looks awfully similar00:18
FIQkerio: link me to which one you're looking at00:18
kerio the one on kickstarter00:18
keriothe geyes one is actually full-size i think00:18
FIQah, that wasn't the one i was looking at00:18
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FIQwhile I guess that would work, I was more on something compact, as native keyboards do00:19
FIQi'll google a bit00:19
keriothere's plenty of those00:19
keriothere's an iphone one that slides from below00:19
keriobluetooth keyboards work fine00:19
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FIQicontrolpad2 was what I was looking at earlier but didn't buy00:23
FIQthat one would be awesome if it actually worked :)00:23
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how would someone identify what's loading a module on a linux desktop, btw?00:24
FIQbut it's unavailable atm00:25
DocScrutinizer05kerio: not that easy, but then there's also not that many possibilities00:25
DocScrutinizer05most modules get loaded by udev I guess00:25
kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but imagine in a fully poettered system00:26
kerio"in a modern linux desktop, there's no need to blacklist modules"00:26
FIQi haven't a single module blacklisted00:26
FIQ*reminds himself of n900 flashing* nvm00:27
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kerioi use os x, i'm kinda used to bullshit black boxes thinking they're too clever00:27
keriomeh, if joshgillies doesn't come here soon with his problem i'll go to sleep00:28
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DocScrutinizer05joosh got the solution to his problem00:28
DocScrutinizer05blacklist phonet00:29
DocScrutinizer05needed on 99% of distros nowadays00:29
DocScrutinizer05and symptoms when you fail to do are exactly as described by him00:29
FIQDocScrutinizer05: yeah, i did00:30
FIQthat's what i meant with "nvm", i.e. i have *one* module blacklisted :p00:30
keriok, i'll go to sleep then00:31
FIQerr oh it was @keri00:31
* FIQ is tired00:31
FIQshould sleep00:31
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders which moron included cdc_phonet to standard linus kernel00:31
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DocScrutinizer05I couldn't think of any 'app' that would actually use cdc_phonet00:32
kerio[PATCH] USB host CDC Phonet network interface driver00:33
kerioFrom: Rémi Denis-Courmont <>00:33
kerioDAMN YOU ELOP00:33
FIQkerio: really or trolling?00:34
keriothe third line was me trolling00:34
keriothe first two are serious00:34
kerio this is the thread00:34
FIQok, so basically, the one that made nokia devices fail was... nokia00:35
tadzikgo figure00:35
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DocScrutinizer05well, Alan cox got it to the point in
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DocScrutinizer05 actually00:56
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SpeedEvilgetting vendors to fix stuff - or worse - create new standards - is hard00:58
merlin1991SpeedEvil: they'll happily create a new standard00:59
merlin1991if they can just encapsulate the old one within it00:59
SpeedEvilinteroperable open00:59
SpeedEvilthat too00:59
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FIQessentially making it worse01:02
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FIQok, bm is probably done now01:02
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FIQi forgot about that it was backupping01:03
FIQguess battery died01:03
FIQNow I got the weird issue once again...01:04
FIQwhen maemo doesn't boot w/o open keyboard01:04
Aoyagino keyboard connected, press F1 to continue?01:05
FIQlol Aoyagi01:05
FIQAoyagi: for me, as one that has boot menu, keyboard open or closed during boot actually makes a difference01:05
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FIQthere we go01:06
FIQfor some reason the issue can be fixed by starting bootmenu once01:06
FIQthen it happily boots with keyboard closed01:06
FIQmaybe this is related to the fact that i just ran backupmenu?01:06
FIQand that maemo doesn't boot after running backupmenu unless I use boot menu?01:06
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AoyagiWell, since not much is happening here, could you name a few things that you can do and 'droids can't? I need some fighting arguments here...01:10
Skry22:41 [ Sicelo900] today i attached to a cisco router's console via the console cable + usb-serial adapter + h.e.n , and dealth a huge blow to all the techs i work with, who own different types of android & iphone devices01:15
vi_recompile kernel on itself01:16
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: h-e-n \o/01:22
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: airodump01:23
Aoyagia hwat?01:23
DocScrutinizer05N900 runs airodump01:23
DocScrutinizer05and even aircrack01:24
DocScrutinizer05multiboot (NOT the friggin "app" of same name!) also is a feature hardly found on iPhones at least ;-D01:25
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cobaltoi think a few things that droids can, for example some new background want internet connection01:28
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: a physical keyboard is also hardly found on iPhones08:04
Hurrianvi_: After having built one kernel on-device, I know what I'm never going to try doing again.08:10
HurrianBuilding small programs? Sure. glibc and larger packages? Nope.08:11
* Luke-Jr notes kernels are small08:13
DocScrutinizer05I guess he meant kernel+modules08:15
HurrianIt takes forever to build kernel-power on device!08:15
DocScrutinizer05(+ modules) which kinda drove me crazy for some time, during developing hostmode08:17
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joshgilliesany ideas for someone running *nix with a n900 bootlooping and unable to take flasher commands?10:38
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joshgilliesread and performed all outlined in
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joshgilliesoutput from # flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f10:43
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joshgillieswithout root the device looks to be discovered but flsah dailes due to permissions10:43
joshgilliesflash fails*10:44
jon_yjoshgillies: try moving to a different usb port10:45
jon_yworked for my n910:45
joshgillieson my laptop I have three10:46
joshgilliesIve tried them all10:46
joshgillieswill grab another cable10:46
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joshgilliesno luck :(10:51
joshgilliesmight be toast10:51
jon_ydoes it respond to flasher -i?10:51
joshgillieslemme see10:52
jon_yrun that, and then plug in your act_dead n90010:52
jon_yplug in your phone after, but not before running the command, let the command wait for the phone10:53
joshgilliesholding 'u'10:53
jon_yno need10:53
jon_ydoes it detect the phone?10:53
joshgilliesactually, it looks like it does10:54
joshgilliesUSB device found found at bus 002, device address 089.10:54
joshgilliesFound device RX-51, hardware revision 220410:54
joshgilliesNOLO version 1.4.1410:54
joshgilliesVersion of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR010:54
jon_ynow try typing your flash command10:54
joshgilliesseems to fall over after "Booting device into flash mode."10:55
jon_yyou typed -b too?10:55
joshgillies# flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f10:56
jon_ytry flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -b10:56
joshgilliesdoesn't seem to make a change10:57
jon_ysorry, no idea, try flashing from a different machine?10:57
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joshgilliesmaybe I was trying to flash the wrong image?!11:04
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joshgilliessudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f11:05
joshgilliesthis works11:05
joshgillieswhere as this `# flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f  didn't11:05
joshgilliesany ideas?11:05
joshgilliesyeah right, boots and everything now...11:06
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DocScrutinizer05((<joshgillies> read and performed all outlined in obviously not11:18
DocScrutinizer05 ->11:20
DocScrutinizer05l. Note however that eMMC flashing will fail when your rootfs is completely messed up, the recommended flash sequence then is rootfs, eMMC, rootfs *again*.11:20
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DocScrutinizer05((<joshgillies> any ideas?)) yep: read, understand the difference between COMBINED and VANILLA11:21
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joshgilliesThanks for the heads up DocScrutinizer11:25
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teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: what the fuck ugly nick highlighter are you using?11:58
teotwakiThat looks like a depressed constipated monk, also.11:59
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DocScrutinizer05joshgillies: [quote author=joshgillies date=2012-12-04 10:05:54] any ideas?  read
DocScrutinizer05how about that?12:40
DocScrutinizer05joshgillies: [quote author=joshgillies date=2012-12-04 10:05:54] any ideas?  or that?12:42
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: ^^^12:42
DocScrutinizer51that's no nick highlighter but a quote12:42
DocScrutinizer51if yougot a better idea for quotes, you're welcome to suggest it12:42
DocScrutinizer05joshgillies: [quote author=joshgillies date=2012-12-04 10:05:54] any ideas?[/quote] or that?12:44
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jonwilMight have a mess with some N900 GPS stuff tonight :)12:48
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: ??12:48
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jonwilreverse engineering the blobs that is12:48
DocScrutinizer05you might want to talk to Luke-Jr12:49
DocScrutinizer05he did some RE of the protocol at least, iirc12:49
jonwilI got info on that12:49
jonwilI have the .h file that contains the structures used in the communication with the cell modem for GPS12:50
jonwilfrom some SDK somewhere12:50
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: there's some piece of sw that might be worth disassembling: the location-pickle eraser12:51
jonwilWhat is that for?12:51
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DocScrutinizer05to reset AGPS' notion of current location12:51
jonwilwhich binary is that?12:52
jonwilor which package?12:52
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jonwilAs of right now there are 7 or so binary blobs in use by meego/mer/nemo on N900. Bluetooth/WiFi init bits are replacable thanks to my reverse engineering work. Pulseaudio seems to be being handled. BME is covered thanks to Pali. libcal is covered thanks to freemangordon. Camera can be replaced with FCam.12:54
jonwilSo only GPS and GPU exist as bits that dont have any reeplacements at all12:54
jonwiland GPU is way out of my league so GPS it is12:54
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jonwilI did spend a bit of time the other day looking into some systemui dbus stuff related to powerkeymenu but didn't get anywhere with that12:56
DocScrutinizer05dang, can't find the bookmark12:56
DocScrutinizer05I'm rather sure Nokia published it as attachment to a bug ticket12:57
DocScrutinizer05it's a diagnostic tool12:57
DocScrutinizer05bugtracker, some bug about "GPS no fix"12:58
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DocScrutinizer05it would shed some light on how and where AGPS initial location is stored12:59
DocScrutinizer05it's a tiny ARM binary12:59
* DocScrutinizer05 mubles a few swearwords about bookmark mess13:02
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povbotBug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view13:03
SpeedEvilsomeone did a GPS decoder that talked more directly to the hw, without lob location13:08
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: ?13:08
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SpeedEvilwell, directly to the preloaded firmware in the cmt13:18
ShadowJKi think if you request gnss from location-ui, and have no other gps requesting softwares running, you'd not use the caches13:19
ShadowJKthoigh I'm not sure13:19
SpeedEvilthe caches are used to hint the gps, I think13:19
SpeedEvilto aid in lock13:19
ShadowJKoh cool, google supl now has my local new 3g bts13:20
ShadowJKtook a week or two :-)13:20
ShadowJKimpressively fast considering I'm in middle of nowhere and probably no android devices pass through here13:20
ShadowJKlet alone androids with activated gps13:20
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: how do you tell?13:49
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ShadowJKI wasn't getting the 6-9km accurate cellbased position before13:49
DocScrutinizer05(that the supl has your EnodeB)13:49
ShadowJKUsually it went 6-9km first based on cell, and then when gps kicks in it went to 500-50n13:50
ShadowJKLike, I wasn't even getting the 600km "middle of finland" thing13:50
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I still suspect that supl is *not* used for GPS13:51
DocScrutinizer05or maybe sometimes is used in a weird way13:51
DocScrutinizer05anyway GSM has its own hidden "supl"13:51
ShadowJKI don't think I got any agps data at all either13:51
infoboti heard rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
ShadowJKBecause it started with 0/0 sats everytime, which is worse than it usually is when requesting pure gps13:52
ShadowJKBut when I switched to gsm from 3g, phone connected to old ancient bts, and then sats changed to 0/12 and 9km estimate appeared13:53
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* ShadowJK suspects it just looks at CellID and queries supl server with that13:54
DocScrutinizer05I still doubt the linux based supl actually propagates thru BB5 to GPS-chip, to help on getting a fix13:54
ShadowJKI don't13:55
ShadowJKThere's significant different in time to fix when using/not using supl, and big difference between broken and
DocScrutinizer05you ever got a fix in short time without SIM?13:56
DocScrutinizer05well, probably supl can't work without SIM ;-P13:56
* DocScrutinizer05 <-- needs coffee13:57
ShadowJKWell, I got no fast fix with unknown new CellID either, so I imagine without Sim, no CellID would be same as unknown CellID?13:57
DocScrutinizer05and also don't forget about importance of correct systime when using GPS13:59
DocScrutinizer05at least AGPS13:59
ShadowJKThat map thing in maemo4 agps, was probably replaced by relying on CellID13:59
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* ShadowJK puts N800+bluetoothgps, N810 and spare N900 on livingroom table14:02
ShadowJKquestion is, do I ask for agps or gps on N90014:02
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ShadowJKsirfstar3 fix in 30 secs14:06
ShadowJKN900 sees 6 sats, N810 114:06
ShadowJK... sirfstar lost lock14:06
jonwilok, so that clear-gps-cache binary is basically sending a LS_CLEAR_GPS_DATA_REQ message to the cellmo location server14:09
ShadowJKaw, this livingroom table might be too difficult, not even srfstar can get lock14:09
jonwilAlso, fyi, location-proxy (handles talking to supl server) calls a number of functions in liblas14:11
jonwilincluding las_supl_server_conf_req14:11
jonwiland some others14:12
ShadowJKwhere do you get the symbols from?14:13
jonwilThese are listed in the imports table for location-proxy :)14:14
jonwilas for the other LS_CLEAR_GPS_DATA_REQ thing, that came from the pn_location_isi.h file I have14:14
jonwilI matched up the value of that constant with the binary value in clear-gps-cache14:14
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DocScrutinizer05((<ShadowJK> N900 sees 6 sats, N810 1)) doesn't really mean a thing, see bugtracker ticket I referred to above. "sats seen" means "sats in view, according to supl or cache" aiui14:19
jonwilbut yeah the whole GPS system is a lot more complex than I thought.14:19
jonwilso no I cant reverse engineer it14:19
ShadowJKN900 probably had some cache14:20
ShadowJKit only has one sat with more than 6 as signal14:20
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jonwilbiggest problem with reverse engineering GPS is total lack of understanding of libisi (which has been frustrating me pretty much ever since I first started N900 reverse engineering)14:22
ShadowJKis that the closed prototype of what eventually became isimodem in oFono?14:23
jonwilits what the N900 cellular services daemon uses for talking to the modem14:23
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* ShadowJK moves devices closer to the side of table closest to a window14:25
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: aiui libisi 'downward' interface is to phonet and you can spy it with wireshark14:25
jonwilyes that I know14:25
jonwilI have the pn_location_isi.h file that describes the actual packets for GPS14:25
jonwilbut what I dont have (and want) is the specs for the libisi api calls14:26
jonwilIf I had that, it would make reverse engineering the next layer parts of the cell stack (e.g. liblas, libsms etc etc) much easier14:27
jonwili.e. libisi-dev is what I wish I had :)14:27
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spoofyDocScrutinizer05: cat /sys/power/idcode Prod id: ...cafeb7ae14:34
spoofyso it's still ES3.114:37
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DocScrutinizer05spoofy: mhm. thanks14:37
DocScrutinizer05could you post the full 4 lines?14:38
spoofyuh.. ok. But I have a clean os without ssh14:38
spoofyProd id is the same14:39
DocScrutinizer05err 314:39
spoofyI'll write a die id14:39
spoofy0f01d006 04038269 00000000 192e000414:39
DocScrutinizer050c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f6000414:39
spoofyso? :)14:40
DocScrutinizer05no idea :-)14:40
DocScrutinizer05I guess it can get dissected by using some info from TRM14:40
DocScrutinizer05mask stepping? 0f01 vs 0c00?14:41
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ShadowJKhm.. weird, my android tblet claims to see satellites 71, 78 and 8514:46
jonwilso yeah figuring out anything more about GPS or powervr or other closed bits isn't going to happen :P14:46
jonwilrun out of closed bits I can actually usefully reverse engineer :)14:47
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Hurrianjonwil: GPS is unfortunately closed because it touches the cellular modem.14:49
jonwilyeah and Nokia didn't want to document the interface to the cellular modem14:49
Hurrianeverything touching the cellmo has vanishingly rare documentation, unforunately.14:49
jonwilexcept that of course they later documented some bits of it in ofono14:50
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SpeedEvilwho did the 'direct' comms to GPS I was thinking of?14:52
ShadowJKI think luke worked on it at some point?14:53
ShadowJKmight've been on n810, not sure14:53
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jonwiln810 GPS was totally different to N90014:57
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joshgilliesIs blessn900 totally broken with more revent kernels (eg cssu-t) ?14:57
DocScrutinizer05there's a frggin lot of documentation about phonet/isi14:59
jonwilthe protocols yes15:00
jonwilbut the actual interfaces for the different bits of the modem no15:00
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ShadowJKOh! my tablet is seeing glonass satellites15:02
DocScrutinizer05Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip15:02
jon_yjoshgillies: seems to work for me15:03
jonwilsome bits and pieces are out there but lots of it isn't, i.e. some of whats out there (including that zip) doesn't 100% match the n900 modem15:03
jon_ybut it crashes if I take more than a few pictures :(15:03
jon_ywith cssu-t15:03
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joshgilliesI'd noticed that in precious testing, now after a fesh flash it wont load at all and cssu-camera-ui doesn't seem to work either...15:05
joshgilliesAnyone know of an issue tracker somewhere I can peer through?15:06
DocScrutinizer05>>Feb 11 01:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> Wireless Modem API - another nice way to lose your mind<<15:07
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DocScrutinizer05cssu-t has no impact on kernel15:09
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: joshgillies: ^^^15:09
jon_ythe stock camera app starts fine for me15:10
jon_yI've even taken a few pictures last week end15:11
DocScrutinizer05and I'd not see any other reason why cssu would make blessn900 segfault15:11
DocScrutinizer05well, maybe blessn900 and cssu-t's nicocam conflict in some way15:12
jon_yI dunno, it works fine for a few pictures and exits suddenly after that15:12
jon_ystock camera app works perfectly15:12
DocScrutinizer05though afaik nicocam shouldn't change anything of the bits that are used by blessn90015:12
jon_yI don't have nicocam installed, only blessn90015:13
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: I understood you got cssu-t?15:13
DocScrutinizer05so you most probably don't have stock camera anymore15:14
jon_ywell, whatever that took over the stock camera app, it works15:14
DocScrutinizer05nobody claimed anything different15:15
jon_yis cssu-camera-ui the stock camera app replacement?15:16
DocScrutinizer05it's nicocam15:16
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jon_ynicocam replaced stock camera app?15:16
DocScrutinizer05in cssu-t, sadly15:17
jon_yok, nicocam works totally fine15:17
DocScrutinizer05except when it doesn't15:17
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DocScrutinizer05but well, *usually* it's working15:17
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless it might conflict with blessn900, at least in theory15:18
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DocScrutinizer05my main concern about nicocam though is that it's not optional15:20
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jon_ydoes nicocam still show as "Camera" in the app menu?15:22
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MrPingu_TUDAnother pair of headphones died :( Now I am sick of it! Planning to buy some BT headphone. Anybody here has some knowledge abt wireless headphones?16:48
Aoyagi_joytopNot the kind you could use for cellphones.16:49
Aoyagi_joytopActually what kind are you looking for?16:50
tadzikif those damned jack plugs never broke the headphone producers would run out of business surely16:51
MrPingu_TUDOnes that work out of the box with natural sound, I don't like bass-boosted headphones16:51
Aoyagi_joytopYes, but I meant what kind of construction.. :P16:52
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: I have no idea16:52
Aoyagi_joytopwell, then my recommendation goes in this direction >
Aoyagi_joytop-IF- you want BT anyway.16:53
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MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: right now I have the klipsch image s4 (in-ear) wired, sounded beautiful but the left side failed due some invisible cable-fracture, I guess16:54
Aoyagi_joytopYeah, I'm unaware of any in-canal wireless headphones :D16:54
MrPingu_TUDWell I am just sick of those cable-fractures so I want to go wireless instead :)16:55
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Aoyagi_joytopThen you'll have to get something larger, because even the (crappy) wireless in-ear headphones I've found so far do have some cable on them.16:57
Aoyagi_joytop'sides, my cables have never broken ^^16:57
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Aoyagi_joytopAn I ride over some of them with my chair on regular basis...16:58
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: those sennheiser you showed me, still have cables?16:59
Aoyagi_joytopNo, those aren't in-ear.16:59
MrPingu_TUDah I don't need in-ear16:59
MrPingu_TUDbut I don't want them to be too big tho16:59
Aoyagi_joytopWell, the MM 100 looks small enoughl.17:00
Aoyagi_joytopactually the 400 line is small too17:01
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MrPingu_TUDEven a bit bigger is fine too17:01
MrPingu_TUDoh and remember I am a price/quality seeker ;p17:02
Aoyagi_joytopHuh. I just seek quality :D17:02
Aoyagi_joytop how's that size17:03
Aoyagi_joytopaccording to, it's the best BT headset money can buy.17:03
Aoyagi_joytophuh, a lot cheaper from what I see on Amazon :D17:04
MrPingu_TUDNormally I do, but since im studying money is getting a bit less available :p17:05
MrPingu_TUDI really have to watch my expenses17:05
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MrPingu_TUDWas more looking at the range of 150, actually17:06
Aoyagi_joytopWell, the MM100 are for that17:06
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Aoyagi_joytopOr you can go to Radioshack (whatevs) and see what you like personally :P17:08
MrPingu_TUDDo you anything about  Creative Wp-350?17:08
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: I seriously dont care what brand, as long its good for the price I pay ;)17:08
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Lava_Croftif you seek quality, use AKG17:09
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Aoyagi_joytopMrPingu_TUD: I've had the chance to listen to only two (larger) Creatuve headsets and those were mildly bass-boosted, otherwise not bad.17:10
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: Thanks, I will keep that in mind :)17:11
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MrPingu_TUDLava_Croft: Thanks just see the AKG K 830 BT in my list here...17:11
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MrPingu_TUDSame price as sennheiser MM10017:12
Lava_CroftAKG has better price/quality than Sennheiser, in my experience17:12
Lava_CroftI guess it's a lot of personal preference too, since Sennheiser certainly isn't crap17:12
Lava_CroftAKG juts sounds better to me17:13
Aoyagi_joytopYeah, Senns sound too "flat" to most people :/17:13
Lava_CroftNot sure if they have BT headsets at all tho17:13
Aoyagi_joytopI think I saw one of their crazy design heavy headphones lying on a recharger somewhere.17:14
Lava_CroftI use cheap 50euro buds from AKG, since while on the road, i basically burn through a set of earbuds every year17:14
MrPingu_TUDWhere to read "good" reviews about headphones?17:14
Lava_CroftIf not more17:14
Lava_CroftMrPingu_TUD: Test yourself:)17:14
Aoyagi_joytopYeah, that :D17:14
Lava_CroftIn my experience, reviews arent very handy with it17:14
tadzikthe phrase "cheap 50€" amuses me a bit :P17:14
tadzikbut I'm leaving in a cheap country17:14
Lava_CroftIt's not like computer graphics, where you can easily see a screenshot of a game and say "that looks awful"17:14
Lava_Crofttadzik: heh17:15
Aoyagi_joytopWait, you're using headphones while driving?17:15
Lava_Crofti use headphones on scooter/bicycle17:15
Lava_Croftor while walking17:15
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: No, I dont have driving license :P17:15
Lava_Croftim special, headphones have been fixed to my head since i was a kid17:15
MrPingu_TUDI use them when I am in train, bus or walking from train to bus :P17:16
Aoyagi_joytopI'm pretty sure there's a law against using headphones and participating in traffic :P17:16
Lava_Crofti basically use them whenever i leave the house on my own17:16
Lava_CroftAoyagi_joytop: not over here:)17:16
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Lava_CroftWhen I was a kid, my mother always tried to prohibit me from using them in traffic17:16
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Lava_Croftnow my mother is 60y+ and she uses her iphone+earbuds all the time while cycling17:17
Aoyagi_joytopWhere's over here?17:17
Lava_CroftThe Netherlands17:17
tadziktalk about cycling laws in Netherlands (:17:17
Lava_CroftYou know whats the worst thing these days?17:17
MrPingu_TUDLava_Croft: You are dutchie?17:17
Lava_CroftPeople using their mobile device while cycling17:17
Lava_Croftthey just look at the screen and drive, its scary17:18
Aoyagi_joytopWell I was forced to throw an egg at this idiot who was driving with some headphones and didn't hear the ambulance behind him :D17:18
Lava_CroftMrPingu_TUD: yes17:18
MrPingu_TUDLava_Croft: me too :P17:18
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: lol17:18
Lava_CroftIf you meet someone on the internet and it's not a Finn, Pole or American, it's a safe bet that it's a Dutchie17:18
Aoyagi_joytopHow dare you forget Swedish master race! :317:19
MrPingu_TUDHmmm I am reading about a2dp that's not so great :(17:19
MrPingu_TUDWould one notice on 320k mp3 directly ripped from original source?17:20
Aoyagi_joytopThat depends on one's trained ear.17:20
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MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: I am normal user, not trained I think17:20
Aoyagi_joytopSome people can't tell 128 from 320 no matter what are they using to listen with :P17:21
MrPingu_TUDHowever I do hear the difference between mp3 and my flac17:21
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Lava_Croftof course you do17:21
Lava_Croftmp3 is all crackly17:21
Lava_Crofta friend of mine teaches music at a local college17:21
Lava_Crofthe had a test with his students, about sound quality17:21
keriothe difference between a V0 mp3 and a flac can only be heard with a good audio system though17:22
Lava_Croftall of his students thought the flac sounded wrong, because it had no 'crackling' like mp3's do17:22
MrPingu_TUDkerio: My dad has ^^17:22
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MrPingu_TUDBut my question still stands...17:23
MrPingu_TUDIs a2dp really that bad?17:23
keriothe difference between a CBR mp3 and a flac... meh17:23
Aoyagi_joytopWell I don't trust BT in general :D17:23
kerioMrPingu_TUD: a2dp in a silent room with high-end a2dp headphones (lol wtf) is bad17:23
kerioa2dp while walking on the side of a road is probably as good as a gold-plated cable in the same condition17:24
MrPingu_TUDkerio: the train and bus aren't silent rooms, to me17:24
kerioindeed :)17:24
Aoyagi_joytopWell, I'm gone, later.17:24
MrPingu_TUDAoyagi_joytop: thanks, bye!17:24
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keriowait, what? there's no way to distinguish between a CBR128 mp3 and a CBR320 mp3 when you're hearing through a walkie talkie17:26
keriooh, some people *can't*17:26
kerioi see17:26
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MrPingu_TUDAnother one, how well goes browsing via wifi + BT headphones, given they both use the same piece of HW17:32
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kerioMrPingu_TUD: forget about it17:33
MrPingu_TUDkerio: in what wya?17:33
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kerioMrPingu_TUD: bluetooth *and* wifi is a nope17:33
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: check your account!18:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: dude, they had to ask me first :)18:18
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keriomy phone was 4 seconds behind the right time18:40
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DocScrutinizer51kerio: well, feell happy then that you've been online19:24
kerioi'm happy :319:24
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DocScrutinizer51I had cloaks I had 4 weeks of coordination headache until they were set19:25
keriowhy is it Maemo in caps, btw?19:28
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GeneralAntillesMaemo is Maemo is maemo.org19:30
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DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: ???19:49
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NeutrinoPowerhi, do someone use qtirreco? it cannot download the remote-database and I don't understand the workaround: "You can install the deb with dpkg --unpack qtirreco_fix.deb" but were is the .deb-file?22:50
kerioNeutrinoPower: pierogi22:50
NeutrinoPowerok, I will try it22:50
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este|hey doods23:07
NeutrinoPowerpierogi is awesome! but I clicked on "Advanced Settings" and can't exit from this, after restart of this applications only this tab appears ...23:08
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NeutrinoPowerah, it is back23:09
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keriovi_: oh you23:15
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Ken-YoungIs there a way, from the command line, to get an N900 to print out the full list of phone contacts as a comma separated list?23:27
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vi_Ken-Young: not an easy way if that is what you mean.23:32
vi_You can access the phone book via dbus if you install an extra package.23:32
vi_or you could try dumping the database.23:33
Ken-Youngvi_ OK, thanks23:33
kerioisn't it an evolution-data-server thing?23:39
Ken-Youngkerio, Who are you asking?23:40
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* ShadowJK should try find way to record ir signals sent by his stuff23:56

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