IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-12-04

FIQ	which succeed	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: I'd be interested in new N900 with warranty and original package	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	for that price	00:00
FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: for 600€?	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	no, 150	00:00
FIQ	or 150€? :P	00:00
FIQ	ah	00:00
FIQ	me too	00:00
FIQ	yay	00:01
FIQ	bm don	00:01
FIQ	e	00:01
tadzik	I see 5 units with 24 months warranty for 699 PLN	00:01
tadzik	that's 169€	00:01
FIQ	=gcalc 699 PLN in EUR	00:01
FIQ	oops	00:01
DocScrutinizer05	could you get me 2 of them please?	00:01
tadzik	we can arrange that	00:01
* FIQ wants one		00:01
tadzik	I can't guarantee how legit those are	00:02
tadzik	http://allegro.pl/nowa-nokia-n900-gwarancja-24mc-zestaw-i2809945538.html	00:02
kerio	i kinda want one too, but my parents will think that i'm crazy if keep buying the same phone over and over	00:02
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FIQ	kerio: lol	00:02
kerio	i mean, more crazy	00:02
FIQ	just tell them that they don't understand	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: tell your parents that uncle doc allowed it	00:03
kerio	yeah, that'll go well	00:03
FIQ	kerio: my parents told me that I acted like oldies that don't do new tech stuff	00:03
FIQ	when I considered getting one new n900 as my old one is starting to fall apart	00:03
FIQ	(yes, not just usb issue)	00:03
kerio	FIQ: well... it's kinda true	00:03
FIQ	kerio: but there aren't any replacements :(	00:04
kerio	i know! :(	00:04
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Aoyagi	When "new tech stuff" is something, that's less open than a virgin, well, I think I'll pass.	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: that's the problem with legit, I hoped for your knowing the language to be able and check that out	00:04
FIQ	Aoyagi: this new iphone 5 would suite you perfectly then!	00:04
FIQ	hmmm	00:05
Aoyagi	I think you misunderstood me there :P	00:05
FIQ	ohhhhhh	00:05
FIQ	right	00:05
FIQ	completely forgot	00:05
FIQ	so what did jolla have to say?	00:05
gomiam	ok, time for me disconnect. Once again, thanks a bunch for your help, and have fun.	00:06
gomiam	s/ me / me to /	00:06
infobot	gomiam meant: ok, time for me to disconnect. Once again, thanks a bunch for your help, and have fun.	00:06
kerio	take care	00:06
DocScrutinizer05	they say they might come up with a new device next summer, but alas the OS/desktop is very HARM-alike. So it's basically a portrait-only phone	00:06
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FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: aw	00:07
FIQ	well if it's open, it can be fixed, right?	00:07
Aoyagi	Well I heard Nokia might have some Android plans.	00:07
kerio	FIQ: and no keyboard!	00:07
FIQ	...right?	00:07
FIQ	WAT	00:07
FIQ	...	00:07
FIQ	nvm then	00:07
kerio	so there's that	00:07
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: well. They claim them new, with Service Warranty	00:07
FIQ	Aoyagi: ...	00:07
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: yep, it can be fixed. Like KDE4 can get fixed	00:07
FIQ	nokia tried everything but android	00:08
FIQ	it avoided it like the pest lol	00:08
tadzik	this is an auction-thingy however, like ebay, so you never truly know	00:08
FIQ	so it's considering jumping on the android train now?	00:08
FIQ	*they're	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: could you give them a call and make sure it's unusued factory-new stuff in original packaging?	00:08
Aoyagi	FIQ: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Nokia-Android-Smartphone-Microsoft-Google,19495.html it's a rumor, of course. It might as well be MeeGo.	00:09
Aoyagi	Oooor nothing at all.	00:09
FIQ	meego? nokia wont do that	00:09
FIQ	or.. well	00:09
FIQ	nokia has been very confusing the latest years	00:09
frals	trololol	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: of course I'll pay all your expenses	00:09
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: I can write them an email if that's fine with you	00:09
FIQ	indeed	00:09
jon_y	summon Mi-Go	00:09
Aoyagi	Of course, they have a M$ saboteur :P	00:09
FIQ	@ frals	00:09
FIQ	jon_y: you make me think of pokémon now..	00:10
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: sure	00:10
jon_y	well, there was that lovecraft-pokemon crossover	00:10
FIQ	"Mi-Go", that is	00:10
Aoyagi	Wild Mi-Go appears.	00:10
FIQ	(which I read as ho-oh at first)	00:10
jon_y	all the trainers are kids because adults will go insane	00:11
FIQ	heh	00:11
FIQ	Aoyagi: WP used Charm	00:11
jon_y	iirc pokethulu or something	00:11
Aoyagi	Mi-Go is confused.	00:12
jon_y	all the mons were freaky butt ugly ersatz	00:12
FIQ	ok so jolla is making a meego-phone w/o keyboard	00:12
tadzik	whoa	00:12
tadzik	there's another offer where they have...	00:12
tadzik	98 devices. 12 months warranty	00:12
FIQ	jon_y: i never liked romhacks that featured fakemons, i'm sure i would like that even less	00:13
jon_y	FIQ: the game was paper and pencil like Call of Cthulhu	00:13
FIQ	jon_y: heh	00:13
jon_y	so perfectly fine to make up your own mons	00:13
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: sent them a question	00:13
FIQ	:P	00:13
FIQ	Hm	00:14
FIQ	About lack of keyboard	00:14
FIQ	There was this kickstarter earlier.. of a keyboard you could connect to whichever phone you wanted	00:14
FIQ	Have anyone of you tried something like that?	00:14
FIQ	connected to bt, etc	00:14
FIQ	i.e. how well does stuff like that work?	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: thanks a lot, mate	00:15
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FIQ	i'm wondering if it could potentially solve vendors complete refusal of bundling phones with ak eyboard	00:16
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tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: you're welcome	00:16
FIQ	s/k e/ ke/	00:16
infobot	FIQ meant: i'm wondering if it could potentially solve vendors complete refusal of bundling phones with a keyboard	00:16
kerio	FIQ: bluetooth keyboards do exist	00:16
FIQ	kerio: yeah, i know	00:16
FIQ	basically I asked how good they work	00:16
FIQ	if they can replace a real one nicely, etc	00:16
kerio	it depends	00:17
kerio	http://akiba-pc.watch.impress.co.jp/hotline/20101228/ni_cgk308e.html this one is a fucking beast, or so i've been told	00:17
FIQ	the one I looked at (but didn't buy) @kickstarter also featured game buttons	00:17
kerio	for "compact" ones	00:17
FIQ	and would be generally awesome if it worked well	00:17
kerio	the kickstarter one is even more compact i think	00:17
kerio	or possibly the same	00:18
kerio	yep, the one on kickstarter looks awfully similar	00:18
FIQ	kerio: link me to which one you're looking at	00:18
kerio	http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jorno/jorno-the-pocketable-folding-bluetooth-keyboard the one on kickstarter	00:18
FIQ	@kickstarter	00:18
kerio	the geyes one is actually full-size i think	00:18
FIQ	ah, that wasn't the one i was looking at	00:18
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FIQ	while I guess that would work, I was more on something compact, as native keyboards do	00:19
FIQ	i'll google a bit	00:19
kerio	there's plenty of those	00:19
kerio	there's an iphone one that slides from below	00:19
kerio	bluetooth keyboards work fine	00:19
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FIQ	ohh	00:23
FIQ	icontrolpad2 was what I was looking at earlier but didn't buy	00:23
FIQ	that one would be awesome if it actually worked :)	00:23
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: how would someone identify what's loading a module on a linux desktop, btw?	00:24
FIQ	but it's unavailable atm	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: not that easy, but then there's also not that many possibilities	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	most modules get loaded by udev I guess	00:25
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: yeah but imagine in a fully poettered system	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	blaeerrrgh!	00:26
kerio	"in a modern linux desktop, there's no need to blacklist modules"	00:26
FIQ	i haven't a single module blacklisted	00:26
FIQ	reminds himself of n900 flashing nvm	00:27
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kerio	i use os x, i'm kinda used to bullshit black boxes thinking they're too clever	00:27
kerio	meh, if joshgillies doesn't come here soon with his problem i'll go to sleep	00:28
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DocScrutinizer05	joosh got the solution to his problem	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	blacklist phonet	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	needed on 99% of distros nowadays	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	and symptoms when you fail to do are exactly as described by him	00:29
FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: yeah, i did	00:30
FIQ	that's what i meant with "nvm", i.e. i have one module blacklisted :p	00:30
kerio	k, i'll go to sleep then	00:31
FIQ	err oh it was @keri	00:31
FIQ	o	00:31
* FIQ is tired		00:31
FIQ	should sleep	00:31
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders which moron included cdc_phonet to standard linus kernel		00:31
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DocScrutinizer05	I couldn't think of any 'app' that would actually use cdc_phonet	00:32
FIQ	:p	00:32
kerio	[PATCH] USB host CDC Phonet network interface driver	00:33
kerio	From: Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>	00:33
kerio	DAMN YOU ELOP	00:33
FIQ	kerio: really or trolling?	00:34
kerio	the third line was me trolling	00:34
kerio	the first two are serious	00:34
kerio	http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/133220 this is the thread	00:34
FIQ	why..	00:34
FIQ	ok, so basically, the one that made nokia devices fail was... nokia	00:35
tadzik	go figure	00:35
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DocScrutinizer05	well, Alan cox got it to the point in http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/133220	00:56
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DocScrutinizer05	http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.network/133538 actually	00:56
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SpeedEvil	indeed	00:58
SpeedEvil	getting vendors to fix stuff - or worse - create new standards - is hard	00:58
merlin1991	SpeedEvil: they'll happily create a new standard	00:59
merlin1991	if they can just encapsulate the old one within it	00:59
SpeedEvil	interoperable open	00:59
SpeedEvil	that too	00:59
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FIQ	essentially making it worse	01:02
FIQ	hm	01:02
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FIQ	ok, bm is probably done now	01:02
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FIQ	i forgot about that it was backupping	01:03
FIQ	guess battery died	01:03
FIQ	uh	01:03
FIQ	Now I got the weird issue once again...	01:04
FIQ	when maemo doesn't boot w/o open keyboard	01:04
Aoyagi	no keyboard connected, press F1 to continue?	01:05
FIQ	lol Aoyagi	01:05
FIQ	Aoyagi: for me, as one that has boot menu, keyboard open or closed during boot actually makes a difference	01:05
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FIQ	there we go	01:06
FIQ	for some reason the issue can be fixed by starting bootmenu once	01:06
FIQ	then it happily boots with keyboard closed	01:06
FIQ	maybe this is related to the fact that i just ran backupmenu?	01:06
FIQ	and that maemo doesn't boot after running backupmenu unless I use boot menu?	01:06
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Aoyagi	Well, since not much is happening here, could you name a few things that you can do and 'droids can't? I need some fighting arguments here...	01:10
Skry	22:41 [ Sicelo900] today i attached to a cisco router's console via the console cable + usb-serial adapter + h.e.n , and dealth a huge blow to all the techs i work with, who own different types of android & iphone devices	01:15
Aoyagi	heh	01:15
vi_	recompile kernel on itself	01:16
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DocScrutinizer05	Skry: h-e-n \o/	01:22
DocScrutinizer05	Aoyagi: airodump	01:23
Aoyagi	a hwat?	01:23
DocScrutinizer05	N900 runs airodump	01:23
DocScrutinizer05	and even aircrack	01:24
DocScrutinizer05	multiboot (NOT the friggin "app" of same name!) also is a feature hardly found on iPhones at least ;-D	01:25
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cobalto	i think a few things that droids can, for example some new background want internet connection	01:28
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kerio	DocScrutinizer05: a physical keyboard is also hardly found on iPhones	08:04
Hurrian	vi_: After having built one kernel on-device, I know what I'm never going to try doing again.	08:10
Hurrian	Building small programs? Sure. glibc and larger packages? Nope.	08:11
Luke-Jr	…	08:13
* Luke-Jr notes kernels are small		08:13
DocScrutinizer05	I guess he meant kernel+modules	08:15
Hurrian	It takes forever to build kernel-power on device!	08:15
DocScrutinizer05	(+ modules) which kinda drove me crazy for some time, during developing hostmode	08:17
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joshgillies	any ideas for someone running *nix with a n900 bootlooping and unable to take flasher commands?	10:38
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joshgillies	read and performed all outlined in http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware	10:39
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joshgillies	http://pastebin.com/z9ri64Wb	10:43
joshgillies	output from # flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f	10:43
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joshgillies	without root the device looks to be discovered but flsah dailes due to permissions	10:43
joshgillies	flash fails*	10:44
jon_y	joshgillies: try moving to a different usb port	10:45
jon_y	worked for my n9	10:45
joshgillies	on my laptop I have three	10:46
joshgillies	Ive tried them all	10:46
joshgillies	will grab another cable	10:46
joshgillies	sec...	10:46
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joshgillies	no luck :(	10:51
joshgillies	might be toast	10:51
jon_y	does it respond to flasher -i?	10:51
joshgillies	hrmm	10:52
joshgillies	lemme see	10:52
jon_y	run that, and then plug in your act_dead n900	10:52
jon_y	plug in your phone after, but not before running the command, let the command wait for the phone	10:53
joshgillies	holding 'u'	10:53
joshgillies	?	10:53
jon_y	no need	10:53
jon_y	does it detect the phone?	10:53
joshgillies	actually, it looks like it does	10:54
joshgillies	USB device found found at bus 002, device address 089.	10:54
joshgillies	Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2204	10:54
joshgillies	NOLO version 1.4.14	10:54
joshgillies	Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_MR0	10:54
jon_y	now try typing your flash command	10:54
joshgillies	seems to fall over after "Booting device into flash mode."	10:55
jon_y	you typed -b too?	10:55
joshgillies	no	10:56
joshgillies	# flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f	10:56
jon_y	try flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -b	10:56
jon_y	?	10:56
joshgillies	sure	10:56
joshgillies	doesn't seem to make a change	10:57
jon_y	sorry, no idea, try flashing from a different machine?	10:57
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joshgillies	hrmmmm	11:03
joshgillies	maybe I was trying to flash the wrong image?!	11:04
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joshgillies	sudo flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f	11:05
joshgillies	this works	11:05
joshgillies	where as this `# flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f didn't	11:05
joshgillies	any ideas?	11:05
joshgillies	yeah right, boots and everything now...	11:06
joshgillies	lol?!	11:06
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DocScrutinizer05	((<joshgillies> read and performed all outlined in http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware)) obviously not	11:18
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 ->	11:20
DocScrutinizer05	l. Note however that eMMC flashing will fail when your rootfs is completely messed up, the recommended flash sequence then is rootfs, eMMC, rootfs again.	11:20
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DocScrutinizer05	((<joshgillies> any ideas?)) yep: read http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware, understand the difference between COMBINED and VANILLA	11:21
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joshgillies	Thanks for the heads up DocScrutinizer	11:25
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teotwaki	DocScrutinizer05: what the fuck ugly nick highlighter are you using?	11:58
teotwaki	((<_>))	11:59
teotwaki	seriously?	11:59
teotwaki	That looks like a depressed constipated monk, also.	11:59
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DocScrutinizer51	hmm?	12:13
fastlane`	:o	12:17
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DocScrutinizer05	joshgillies: [quote author=joshgillies date=2012-12-04 10:05:54] any ideas? read http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware	12:40
DocScrutinizer05	how about that?	12:40
DocScrutinizer05	joshgillies: [quote author=joshgillies date=2012-12-04 10:05:54] any ideas? or that?	12:42
DocScrutinizer05	teotwaki: ^^^	12:42
DocScrutinizer51	that's no nick highlighter but a quote	12:42
DocScrutinizer51	if yougot a better idea for quotes, you're welcome to suggest it	12:42
DocScrutinizer05	joshgillies: [quote author=joshgillies date=2012-12-04 10:05:54] any ideas?[/quote] or that?	12:44
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jonwil	Might have a mess with some N900 GPS stuff tonight :)	12:48
DocScrutinizer05	jonwil: ??	12:48
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jonwil	reverse engineering the blobs that is	12:48
DocScrutinizer05	ooh	12:48
DocScrutinizer05	you might want to talk to Luke-Jr	12:49
DocScrutinizer05	he did some RE of the protocol at least, iirc	12:49
jonwil	I got info on that	12:49
jonwil	I have the .h file that contains the structures used in the communication with the cell modem for GPS	12:50
jonwil	from some SDK somewhere	12:50
DocScrutinizer05	cool	12:50
DocScrutinizer05	jonwil: there's some piece of sw that might be worth disassembling: the location-pickle eraser	12:51
jonwil	What is that for?	12:51
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DocScrutinizer05	to reset AGPS' notion of current location	12:51
jonwil	which binary is that?	12:52
DocScrutinizer05	mompls	12:52
jonwil	or which package?	12:52
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jonwil	As of right now there are 7 or so binary blobs in use by meego/mer/nemo on N900. Bluetooth/WiFi init bits are replacable thanks to my reverse engineering work. Pulseaudio seems to be being handled. BME is covered thanks to Pali. libcal is covered thanks to freemangordon. Camera can be replaced with FCam.	12:54
jonwil	So only GPS and GPU exist as bits that dont have any reeplacements at all	12:54
jonwil	and GPU is way out of my league so GPS it is	12:54
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jonwil	I did spend a bit of time the other day looking into some systemui dbus stuff related to powerkeymenu but didn't get anywhere with that	12:56
DocScrutinizer05	dang, can't find the bookmark	12:56
DocScrutinizer05	I'm rather sure Nokia published it as attachment to a bug ticket	12:57
DocScrutinizer05	it's a diagnostic tool	12:57
jonwil	ok	12:57
DocScrutinizer05	bugtracker, some bug about "GPS no fix"	12:58
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DocScrutinizer05	it would shed some light on how and where AGPS initial location is stored	12:59
DocScrutinizer05	it's a tiny ARM binary	12:59
* DocScrutinizer05 mubles a few swearwords about bookmark mess		13:02
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DocScrutinizer05	tadaaa! https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026#c35	13:03
povbot	Bug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view	13:03
SpeedEvil	someone did a GPS decoder that talked more directly to the hw, without lob location	13:08
SpeedEvil	Luke-Jr: ?	13:08
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ShadowJK	clear-gps-cache	13:14
SpeedEvil	well, directly to the preloaded firmware in the cmt	13:18
ShadowJK	i think if you request gnss from location-ui, and have no other gps requesting softwares running, you'd not use the caches	13:19
ShadowJK	thoigh I'm not sure	13:19
SpeedEvil	the caches are used to hint the gps, I think	13:19
SpeedEvil	to aid in lock	13:19
ShadowJK	oh cool, google supl now has my local new 3g bts	13:20
ShadowJK	took a week or two :-)	13:20
ShadowJK	impressively fast considering I'm in middle of nowhere and probably no android devices pass through here	13:20
ShadowJK	let alone androids with activated gps	13:20
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DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: how do you tell?	13:49
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ShadowJK	I wasn't getting the 6-9km accurate cellbased position before	13:49
DocScrutinizer05	(that the supl has your EnodeB)	13:49
DocScrutinizer05	ahh	13:50
ShadowJK	Usually it went 6-9km first based on cell, and then when gps kicks in it went to 500-50n	13:50
ShadowJK	Like, I wasn't even getting the 600km "middle of finland" thing	13:50
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, I still suspect that supl is not used for GPS	13:51
DocScrutinizer05	or maybe sometimes is used in a weird way	13:51
DocScrutinizer05	anyway GSM has its own hidden "supl"	13:51
ShadowJK	I don't think I got any agps data at all either	13:51
DocScrutinizer05	~gsm-agps	13:52
infobot	i heard rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://security.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/RRLP	13:52
ShadowJK	Because it started with 0/0 sats everytime, which is worse than it usually is when requesting pure gps	13:52
ShadowJK	But when I switched to gsm from 3g, phone connected to old ancient bts, and then sats changed to 0/12 and 9km estimate appeared	13:53
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* ShadowJK suspects it just looks at CellID and queries supl server with that		13:54
DocScrutinizer05	I still doubt the linux based supl actually propagates thru BB5 to GPS-chip, to help on getting a fix	13:54
ShadowJK	I don't	13:55
ShadowJK	There's significant different in time to fix when using/not using supl, and big difference between broken supl.nokia.com and supl.google.com	13:55
DocScrutinizer05	you ever got a fix in short time without SIM?	13:56
DocScrutinizer05	well, probably supl can't work without SIM ;-P	13:56
* DocScrutinizer05 <-- needs coffee		13:57
ShadowJK	Well, I got no fast fix with unknown new CellID either, so I imagine without Sim, no CellID would be same as unknown CellID?	13:57
DocScrutinizer05	yep	13:57
DocScrutinizer05	and also don't forget about importance of correct systime when using GPS	13:59
DocScrutinizer05	at least AGPS	13:59
ShadowJK	That map thing in maemo4 agps, was probably replaced by relying on CellID	13:59
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	13:59
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* ShadowJK puts N800+bluetoothgps, N810 and spare N900 on livingroom table		14:02
ShadowJK	question is, do I ask for agps or gps on N900	14:02
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ShadowJK	gps	14:04
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ShadowJK	sirfstar3 fix in 30 secs	14:06
ShadowJK	N900 sees 6 sats, N810 1	14:06
ShadowJK	... sirfstar lost lock	14:06
jonwil	ok, so that clear-gps-cache binary is basically sending a LS_CLEAR_GPS_DATA_REQ message to the cellmo location server	14:09
ShadowJK	aw, this livingroom table might be too difficult, not even srfstar can get lock	14:09
jonwil	Also, fyi, location-proxy (handles talking to supl server) calls a number of functions in liblas	14:11
jonwil	including las_supl_server_conf_req	14:11
jonwil	las_supl_nw_init_req	14:12
jonwil	and some others	14:12
ShadowJK	where do you get the symbols from?	14:13
jonwil	These are listed in the imports table for location-proxy :)	14:14
jonwil	as for the other LS_CLEAR_GPS_DATA_REQ thing, that came from the pn_location_isi.h file I have	14:14
jonwil	I matched up the value of that constant with the binary value in clear-gps-cache	14:14
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DocScrutinizer05	((<ShadowJK> N900 sees 6 sats, N810 1)) doesn't really mean a thing, see bugtracker ticket I referred to above. "sats seen" means "sats in view, according to supl or cache" aiui	14:19
jonwil	but yeah the whole GPS system is a lot more complex than I thought.	14:19
ShadowJK	yes	14:19
jonwil	so no I cant reverse engineer it	14:19
ShadowJK	N900 probably had some cache	14:20
ShadowJK	it only has one sat with more than 6 as signal	14:20
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jonwil	biggest problem with reverse engineering GPS is total lack of understanding of libisi (which has been frustrating me pretty much ever since I first started N900 reverse engineering)	14:22
ShadowJK	is that the closed prototype of what eventually became isimodem in oFono?	14:23
jonwil	its what the N900 cellular services daemon uses for talking to the modem	14:23
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* ShadowJK moves devices closer to the side of table closest to a window		14:25
DocScrutinizer05	jonwil: aiui libisi 'downward' interface is to phonet and you can spy it with wireshark	14:25
jonwil	yes that I know	14:25
jonwil	I have the pn_location_isi.h file that describes the actual packets for GPS	14:25
jonwil	but what I dont have (and want) is the specs for the libisi api calls	14:26
jonwil	If I had that, it would make reverse engineering the next layer parts of the cell stack (e.g. liblas, libsms etc etc) much easier	14:27
jonwil	i.e. libisi-dev is what I wish I had :)	14:27
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spoofy	DocScrutinizer05: cat /sys/power/idcode Prod id: ...cafeb7ae	14:34
spoofy	so it's still ES3.1	14:37
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DocScrutinizer05	spoofy: mhm. thanks	14:37
DocScrutinizer05	could you post the full 4 lines?	14:38
spoofy	uh.. ok. But I have a clean os without ssh	14:38
spoofy	Prod id is the same	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	err 3	14:39
spoofy	I'll write a die id	14:39
spoofy	0f01d006 04038269 00000000 192e0004	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	0c004012 040364fb 00000000 44f60004	14:39
spoofy	so? :)	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	no idea :-)	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	I guess it can get dissected by using some info from TRM	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	mask stepping? 0f01 vs 0c00?	14:41
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spoofy	hmm	14:43
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ShadowJK	hm.. weird, my android tblet claims to see satellites 71, 78 and 85	14:46
jonwil	so yeah figuring out anything more about GPS or powervr or other closed bits isn't going to happen :P	14:46
jonwil	run out of closed bits I can actually usefully reverse engineer :)	14:47
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Hurrian	jonwil: GPS is unfortunately closed because it touches the cellular modem.	14:49
jonwil	yeah and Nokia didn't want to document the interface to the cellular modem	14:49
Hurrian	everything touching the cellmo has vanishingly rare documentation, unforunately.	14:49
jonwil	except that of course they later documented some bits of it in ofono	14:50
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SpeedEvil	who did the 'direct' comms to GPS I was thinking of?	14:52
ShadowJK	I think luke worked on it at some point?	14:53
ShadowJK	might've been on n810, not sure	14:53
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jonwil	n810 GPS was totally different to N900	14:57
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joshgillies	Is blessn900 totally broken with more revent kernels (eg cssu-t) ?	14:57
DocScrutinizer05	there's a frggin lot of documentation about phonet/isi	14:59
jonwil	the protocols yes	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	yep	15:00
jonwil	but the actual interfaces for the different bits of the modem no	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	hmm	15:00
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ShadowJK	Oh! my tablet is seeing glonass satellites	15:02
DocScrutinizer05	Wireless Modem API G2 V2 11w05.zip	15:02
jon_y	joshgillies: seems to work for me	15:03
jonwil	some bits and pieces are out there but lots of it isn't, i.e. some of whats out there (including that zip) doesn't 100% match the n900 modem	15:03
jon_y	but it crashes if I take more than a few pictures :(	15:03
jon_y	with cssu-t	15:03
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joshgillies	I'd noticed that in precious testing, now after a fesh flash it wont load at all and cssu-camera-ui doesn't seem to work either...	15:05
joshgillies	Anyone know of an issue tracker somewhere I can peer through?	15:06
DocScrutinizer05	>>Feb 11 01:02:16 <DocScrutinizer> Wireless Modem API - another nice way to lose your mind<<	15:07
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DocScrutinizer05	cssu-t has no impact on kernel	15:09
DocScrutinizer05	jon_y: joshgillies: ^^^	15:09
jon_y	the stock camera app starts fine for me	15:10
jon_y	I've even taken a few pictures last week end	15:11
DocScrutinizer05	and I'd not see any other reason why cssu would make blessn900 segfault	15:11
DocScrutinizer05	well, maybe blessn900 and cssu-t's nicocam conflict in some way	15:12
jon_y	I dunno, it works fine for a few pictures and exits suddenly after that	15:12
jon_y	stock camera app works perfectly	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	though afaik nicocam shouldn't change anything of the bits that are used by blessn900	15:12
jon_y	I don't have nicocam installed, only blessn900	15:13
DocScrutinizer05	jon_y: I understood you got cssu-t?	15:13
jon_y	yes	15:14
DocScrutinizer05	so you most probably don't have stock camera anymore	15:14
jon_y	well, whatever that took over the stock camera app, it works	15:14
DocScrutinizer05	nobody claimed anything different	15:15
jon_y	is cssu-camera-ui the stock camera app replacement?	15:16
DocScrutinizer05	it's nicocam	15:16
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jon_y	nicocam replaced stock camera app?	15:16
DocScrutinizer05	yes	15:16
DocScrutinizer05	in cssu-t, sadly	15:17
jon_y	ok, nicocam works totally fine	15:17
DocScrutinizer05	except when it doesn't	15:17
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DocScrutinizer05	but well, usually it's working	15:17
DocScrutinizer05	nevertheless it might conflict with blessn900, at least in theory	15:18
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DocScrutinizer05	my main concern about nicocam though is that it's not optional	15:20
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jon_y	does nicocam still show as "Camera" in the app menu?	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	probably	15:22
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MrPingu_TUD	hi	16:45
MrPingu_TUD	Another pair of headphones died :( Now I am sick of it! Planning to buy some BT headphone. Anybody here has some knowledge abt wireless headphones?	16:48
Aoyagi_joytop	Not the kind you could use for cellphones.	16:49
Aoyagi_joytop	Actually what kind are you looking for?	16:50
tadzik	if those damned jack plugs never broke the headphone producers would run out of business surely	16:51
MrPingu_TUD	Ones that work out of the box with natural sound, I don't like bass-boosted headphones	16:51
Aoyagi_joytop	Yes, but I meant what kind of construction.. :P	16:52
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: I have no idea	16:52
Aoyagi_joytop	well, then my recommendation goes in this direction > http://www.sennheiserusa.com/bluetooth-stereo-headphones-wireless-headphones-noise-cancelling	16:52
Aoyagi_joytop	-IF- you want BT anyway.	16:53
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MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: right now I have the klipsch image s4 (in-ear) wired, sounded beautiful but the left side failed due some invisible cable-fracture, I guess	16:54
Aoyagi_joytop	Yeah, I'm unaware of any in-canal wireless headphones :D	16:54
MrPingu_TUD	Well I am just sick of those cable-fractures so I want to go wireless instead :)	16:55
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Aoyagi_joytop	Then you'll have to get something larger, because even the (crappy) wireless in-ear headphones I've found so far do have some cable on them.	16:57
Aoyagi_joytop	'sides, my cables have never broken ^^	16:57
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Aoyagi_joytop	An I ride over some of them with my chair on regular basis...	16:58
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: those sennheiser you showed me, still have cables?	16:59
Aoyagi_joytop	No, those aren't in-ear.	16:59
MrPingu_TUD	ah I don't need in-ear	16:59
MrPingu_TUD	but I don't want them to be too big tho	16:59
Aoyagi_joytop	Well, the MM 100 looks small enoughl.	17:00
Aoyagi_joytop	enough*	17:00
Aoyagi_joytop	https://sc.sbcommerce.nl/prodimg/images32/SH_MM100_5_OF.jpg	17:00
Aoyagi_joytop	actually the 400 line is small too	17:01
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MrPingu_TUD	Even a bit bigger is fine too	17:01
MrPingu_TUD	oh and remember I am a price/quality seeker ;p	17:02
Aoyagi_joytop	Huh. I just seek quality :D	17:02
Aoyagi_joytop	http://media.t3.com/img/resized/se/xl_Sennheiser_MM450_Travel_624.jpg how's that size	17:03
Aoyagi_joytop	according to T3.com, it's the best BT headset money can buy.	17:03
Aoyagi_joytop	£350	17:04
Aoyagi_joytop	huh, a lot cheaper from what I see on Amazon :D	17:04
MrPingu_TUD	Normally I do, but since im studying money is getting a bit less available :p	17:05
Aoyagi_joytop	$250-ish	17:05
MrPingu_TUD	I really have to watch my expenses	17:05
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MrPingu_TUD	Was more looking at the range of 150, actually	17:06
Aoyagi_joytop	Well, the MM100 are for that	17:06
Aoyagi_joytop	$150	17:06
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Aoyagi_joytop	Or you can go to Radioshack (whatevs) and see what you like personally :P	17:08
MrPingu_TUD	Do you anything about Creative Wp-350?	17:08
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: I seriously dont care what brand, as long its good for the price I pay ;)	17:08
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Lava_Croft	if you seek quality, use AKG	17:09
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Aoyagi_joytop	MrPingu_TUD: I've had the chance to listen to only two (larger) Creatuve headsets and those were mildly bass-boosted, otherwise not bad.	17:10
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: Thanks, I will keep that in mind :)	17:11
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MrPingu_TUD	Lava_Croft: Thanks just see the AKG K 830 BT in my list here...	17:11
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MrPingu_TUD	Same price as sennheiser MM100	17:12
Lava_Croft	AKG has better price/quality than Sennheiser, in my experience	17:12
Aoyagi_joytop	orly	17:12
Lava_Croft	I guess it's a lot of personal preference too, since Sennheiser certainly isn't crap	17:12
Lava_Croft	AKG juts sounds better to me	17:13
Lava_Croft	just*	17:13
Aoyagi_joytop	Yeah, Senns sound too "flat" to most people :/	17:13
Lava_Croft	Not sure if they have BT headsets at all tho	17:13
Aoyagi_joytop	I think I saw one of their crazy design heavy headphones lying on a recharger somewhere.	17:14
Lava_Croft	I use cheap 50euro buds from AKG, since while on the road, i basically burn through a set of earbuds every year	17:14
MrPingu_TUD	Where to read "good" reviews about headphones?	17:14
Lava_Croft	If not more	17:14
Lava_Croft	MrPingu_TUD: Test yourself:)	17:14
Aoyagi_joytop	Yeah, that :D	17:14
Lava_Croft	In my experience, reviews arent very handy with it	17:14
tadzik	the phrase "cheap 50€" amuses me a bit :P	17:14
tadzik	but I'm leaving in a cheap country	17:14
Lava_Croft	It's not like computer graphics, where you can easily see a screenshot of a game and say "that looks awful"	17:14
Lava_Croft	tadzik: heh	17:15
Aoyagi_joytop	Wait, you're using headphones while driving?	17:15
Lava_Croft	i use headphones on scooter/bicycle	17:15
Lava_Croft	or while walking	17:15
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: No, I dont have driving license :P	17:15
Lava_Croft	im special, headphones have been fixed to my head since i was a kid	17:15
MrPingu_TUD	I use them when I am in train, bus or walking from train to bus :P	17:16
Aoyagi_joytop	I'm pretty sure there's a law against using headphones and participating in traffic :P	17:16
Lava_Croft	i basically use them whenever i leave the house on my own	17:16
Lava_Croft	Aoyagi_joytop: not over here:)	17:16
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Lava_Croft	When I was a kid, my mother always tried to prohibit me from using them in traffic	17:16
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Lava_Croft	now my mother is 60y+ and she uses her iphone+earbuds all the time while cycling	17:17
Aoyagi_joytop	Where's over here?	17:17
Lava_Croft	The Netherlands	17:17
Aoyagi_joytop	Oh.	17:17
tadzik	talk about cycling laws in Netherlands (:	17:17
Lava_Croft	You know whats the worst thing these days?	17:17
MrPingu_TUD	Lava_Croft: You are dutchie?	17:17
Lava_Croft	People using their mobile device while cycling	17:17
Lava_Croft	they just look at the screen and drive, its scary	17:18
Aoyagi_joytop	Well I was forced to throw an egg at this idiot who was driving with some headphones and didn't hear the ambulance behind him :D	17:18
Lava_Croft	MrPingu_TUD: yes	17:18
MrPingu_TUD	Lava_Croft: me too :P	17:18
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: lol	17:18
Lava_Croft	If you meet someone on the internet and it's not a Finn, Pole or American, it's a safe bet that it's a Dutchie	17:18
MrPingu_TUD	xD	17:19
Aoyagi_joytop	How dare you forget Swedish master race! :3	17:19
MrPingu_TUD	Hmmm I am reading about a2dp that's not so great :(	17:19
MrPingu_TUD	Would one notice on 320k mp3 directly ripped from original source?	17:20
Aoyagi_joytop	That depends on one's trained ear.	17:20
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MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: I am normal user, not trained I think	17:20
Aoyagi_joytop	Some people can't tell 128 from 320 no matter what are they using to listen with :P	17:21
MrPingu_TUD	However I do hear the difference between mp3 and my flac	17:21
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Lava_Croft	of course you do	17:21
Lava_Croft	mp3 is all crackly	17:21
Lava_Croft	a friend of mine teaches music at a local college	17:21
Lava_Croft	he had a test with his students, about sound quality	17:21
kerio	the difference between a V0 mp3 and a flac can only be heard with a good audio system though	17:22
Lava_Croft	all of his students thought the flac sounded wrong, because it had no 'crackling' like mp3's do	17:22
MrPingu_TUD	kerio: My dad has ^^	17:22
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MrPingu_TUD	But my question still stands...	17:23
MrPingu_TUD	Is a2dp really that bad?	17:23
kerio	the difference between a CBR mp3 and a flac... meh	17:23
Aoyagi_joytop	Well I don't trust BT in general :D	17:23
kerio	MrPingu_TUD: a2dp in a silent room with high-end a2dp headphones (lol wtf) is bad	17:23
kerio	a2dp while walking on the side of a road is probably as good as a gold-plated cable in the same condition	17:24
MrPingu_TUD	kerio: the train and bus aren't silent rooms, to me	17:24
kerio	indeed :)	17:24
Aoyagi_joytop	Well, I'm gone, later.	17:24
MrPingu_TUD	Aoyagi_joytop: thanks, bye!	17:24
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kerio	wait, what? there's no way to distinguish between a CBR128 mp3 and a CBR320 mp3 when you're hearing through a walkie talkie	17:26
kerio	oh, some people can't	17:26
kerio	i see	17:26
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MrPingu_TUD	Another one, how well goes browsing via wifi + BT headphones, given they both use the same piece of HW	17:32
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kerio	MrPingu_TUD: forget about it	17:33
MrPingu_TUD	kerio: in what wya?	17:33
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MrPingu_TUD	*way	17:33
kerio	MrPingu_TUD: bluetooth and wifi is a nope	17:33
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MrPingu_TUD	:(	17:34
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: check your account!	18:18
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: dude, they had to ask me first :)	18:18
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kerio	my phone was 4 seconds behind the right time	18:40
kerio	wtf	18:40
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DocScrutinizer51	kerio: well, feell happy then that you've been online	19:24
kerio	i'm happy :3	19:24
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DocScrutinizer51	I had cloaks I had 4 weeks of coordination headache until they were set	19:25
kerio	why is it Maemo in caps, btw?	19:28
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GeneralAntilles	Maemo is Maemo maemo.org is maemo.org	19:30
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DocScrutinizer51	GeneralAntilles: ???	19:49
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DocScrutinizer51	~ping	20:26
infobot	~pong	20:26
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fastlane`	~ping	21:10
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NeutrinoPower	hi, do someone use qtirreco? it cannot download the remote-database and I don't understand the workaround: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1143948&postcount=585 "You can install the deb with dpkg --unpack qtirreco_fix.deb" but were is the .deb-file?	22:50
kerio	NeutrinoPower: pierogi	22:50
NeutrinoPower	ok, I will try it	22:50
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este\|	hey doods	23:07
NeutrinoPower	pierogi is awesome! but I clicked on "Advanced Settings" and can't exit from this, after restart of this applications only this tab appears ...	23:08
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NeutrinoPower	ah, it is back	23:09
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kerio	vi_: oh you	23:15
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Ken-Young	Is there a way, from the command line, to get an N900 to print out the full list of phone contacts as a comma separated list?	23:27
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vi_	Ken-Young: not an easy way if that is what you mean.	23:32
vi_	You can access the phone book via dbus if you install an extra package.	23:32
vi_	or you could try dumping the database.	23:33
Ken-Young	vi_ OK, thanks	23:33
kerio	isn't it an evolution-data-server thing?	23:39
Ken-Young	kerio, Who are you asking?	23:40
kerio	everyone	23:40
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* ShadowJK should try find way to record ir signals sent by his stuff		23:56

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