IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-12-01

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DocScrutinizer05neither seems to work00:20
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* DocScrutinizer05 feels like a windoze mouse nudger wondering what might be a hotkey00:22
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DocScrutinizer51hmm, seems xchat specific00:25
DocScrutinizer05I probably should switch from Konversation to xchat on X8600:31
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infobotjoerg_rw_: thanks00:37
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AoyagiHi, I thought this would be a nice place to inquire about N900 or Maemo in general...isn't it?01:14
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AoyagiGreat, I plan to get one of those and I could use some intel before I actually buy it :)01:15
DocScrutinizer05maemo newbe?01:16
AoyagiNot even that yet.01:17
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AoyagiCurrently I'm sort of a sub-life derivate.01:17
AoyagiAnd I have ... some linux experience, nothing to be proud of though.01:18
DocScrutinizer05sufficient, if you love it nevertheless01:18
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HurrianAoyagi, despite the age, it's actually kind of snappy once you get around to installing CSSU-Thumb01:19
DocScrutinizer05a lot of maemons got introduced to linux by their N90001:19
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: hoooh, not that fast with a new member :-D01:19
AoyagiHeh, no doubt.01:19
Hurrianmeh, learn to use apt-get properly and you can get mostly everything you want done.01:21
HurrianMessing with configuration files comes much, much later.01:21
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: don't you think our new community meber might first want to *get* a device?01:22
AoyagiSounds like a general linux rule of thumb :301:22
HurrianDocScrutinizer05: well, they're rock bottom cheap, hopefully cheap enough to fall into the "disposable income" category of spending01:22
HurrianMy advice is, if you're familiar with Linux, start browsing the repository, and develop a peculiar interest in kernel-power.01:22
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HurrianEverything you will need to know will come after that.01:23
AoyagiDocScrutinizer05: Actually the reasons why I figured this one would be the best choice are pretty shallow. The original impulse was "Linux, but screw google"01:23
DocScrutinizer05my advice: get a N900, possibly a 'new' one. Then do your first flashing and update experiences, and enjoy maemo a few days or weeks01:24
AoyagiThat's the plan.01:24
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: sounds like a pretty good rationale01:24
HurrianBetter yet, force yourself to use it as a phone for a month.01:24
HurrianThat should get you used to it.01:24
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: you'll love N900 since it's really linux, unlike any android device01:25
HurrianLeaving it on a desk for occasional playtime is a surefire way to never touch it.01:25
AoyagiForce? I don't need to do such things, I broke my N95 in two pieces due to rage, alcohol and poor judgment. And I'll be damned if I stay any longer with C201:26
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DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: beware of 'new' N900 origin Hongkong, they're most frequently poorly refurbished ones01:27
AoyagiDocScrutinizer51: So about that, I have this somewhat major question - can it do the 'usb memory' mode? Without any application installed on the PC?01:27
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HurrianAoyagi: An ex-N95 user? Man, you're about two years late on the upgrade train.01:27
AoyagiHurrian: I wouldn't ditch the phone if it didn't break.01:28
AoyagiDocScrutinizer05: Great, I was asking because I read somewhere that it can't do it.01:28
HurrianAoyagi: Ditched mine because of poor battery life. Speaking of which, the N900 has so-so battery life.01:28
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DocScrutinizer05nah, plug device to any PC, select "Mass Storage Mode" from popup menu on N900, access it from PC like a usual USB memory stick with 28GB capacity and VFAT filesystem01:29
HurrianAs a benchmark, when you get one, and flash it clean, if the battery's new it should last 4 hours browsing the Internet via WiFi.01:29
AoyagiHurrian: So wait.01:30
DocScrutinizer05or 8 days in standby mode01:30
AoyagiIf I understand it correctly, you consider N900 to be the next N95?01:30
HurrianAoyagi, if by that you mean "the quintessential Nokia device of its time", then yes.01:30
HurrianIt did come out with the N97, which according to my friends is a complete pile of dog shit. And more expensive than the N900.01:31
DocScrutinizer05N900 is the best device ever built by Nokia01:31
AoyagiAnd I have an N97 too. It's slow as hell, otherwise not -that- bad.01:31
HurrianOh, and when you get your N900, you think the battery life sucks, don't worry. The N9 has worse battery life.01:32
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DocScrutinizer05and I guess 75% here will agree it's still not replaceable by any other device01:32
nox-..and you cant even swap the n9 battery right?01:32
AoyagiN9 also has capacitive touchscreen and no physical keyboard and those two things I can't stand...01:32
DocScrutinizer05you'll *love* your N900 :-)01:33
AoyagiIf I find one anyway.01:33
NeutrinoPoweron ebay...01:33
NeutrinoPowerI got one last week for 90€01:34
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, it seems on Poland there are really new ones available still01:34
NeutrinoPowerand I like it01:34
NeutrinoPowernew N900?01:34
AoyagiDocScrutinizer05: Some of the shops here say so as well, but that depends on how trustworthy are they.01:34
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Aoyagi(here being Czech Republic of Crap)01:35
DocScrutinizer05gathered as much01:35
HurrianEurope? It'd be a cinch to grab new N900s.01:35
HurrianElsewhere, you're not so lucky. Paying postal and dealing with customs is suffering.01:36
DocScrutinizer05I think you could order in Germany, bluephon has display mint condition ones every now and then, offers on ebay under various names01:36
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AoyagiHm, I'd better check some UK stores too.01:36
AoyagiWouldn't want to get some messed up keyboard layout.01:37
DocScrutinizer05errr, I think UK is a tad expensive01:37
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DocScrutinizer05actually of my 2 bluephon devices one came with qwerty01:37
HurrianOh, I've got one more suggestion. If you love your N900, I recommend grabbing 2 more (even if they're partially working) devices to cannibalize parts off.01:38
DocScrutinizer05swapping keymat is really piss simple. Getting new keymat maybe not that easy though01:38
AoyagiWell, 280 GPB would be an acceptable price.01:38
Aoyagifor meee01:38
DocScrutinizer05for a new one in original package maybe01:38
AoyagiHurrian: Yeah, I'll get one or two used ones as well, just to make sure :)01:38
AoyagiDocScrutinizer05: Yep.01:39
AoyagiAnd there better be one somewhere out there.01:39
DocScrutinizer05new ones here in D are 180..250EUR01:39
DocScrutinizer05without original packaging01:39
HurrianI have five working N900s, one as the princess N900, and the other four are built out of scrapped N900s.01:39
AoyagiIsn't that a bit of an overkill?01:40
HurrianAoyagi, I love me some N900s.01:41
AoyagiSo it would seem ^^01:41
HurrianBought a box of defective ones at the local electronics grey market, and put together working ones.01:41
HurrianI've got around three units worth of dud parts (broken case/camera/screen/slider/magnet), and the rest I haven't checked yet.01:42
AoyagiSounds like a lot of tinkering.01:42
HurrianI may be able to assemble more of them, but testing each component takes quite some time.01:43
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: bluephon24:
DocScrutinizer05dealer OK01:44
DocScrutinizer05find a phone of them, and you're fine01:44
AoyagiSee, I don't understand what th hell is it saying :D01:44
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: ther are a lot more but I don't know any of those sellers01:45
HurrianUSD348? The f***?01:46
HurrianDocScrutinizer05, you may want to check "New" as the condition01:46
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: I did: 1 item01:47
DocScrutinizer05location HONGKONG01:47
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HurrianAoyagi, notice that the devices from Hong Kong are priced ~GBP130 or so01:48
AoyagiIs there any way to tell them apart?01:48
DocScrutinizer05that's around 129 too much01:48
DocScrutinizer05google for "<seller> problem"01:49
HurrianAoyagi, HK devices are hit and miss01:49
Hurrianyou may be sold a refurb when they say new01:49
Aoyagi"Dispatched from Hong Kong" is not what I want to see then, huh?01:50
Aoyagi"Dispatched from United Kingdom" sounds nice enough...01:50
HurrianAnd one more thing, if you see sellers jacking up the price because it's "unlocked" avoid them.01:51
HurrianThe N900 has not been sold simlocked.01:51
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AoyagiI don't think the range of sellers will be exactly wide. But I might as well tell our company supplier to look for one too.01:52
Aoyagi"used" one with 6 months warranty for 130¤... :/01:57
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: incorrect, some carriers sold them simlocked01:58
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: you might want to check the Polish ones01:59
AoyagiI imagine it isn't that much of a problem to unlock them.01:59
SpeedEvilmay not be possible01:59
DocScrutinizer05they are extremely rare, and no, it's probably not easy at all to unlock them02:00
SpeedEvilprocedure varies by phone02:00
SpeedEvilthe simlock will be in the modems store age, not the application processor02:00
ShadowJKThere's a menu entry for it in N90002:01
ShadowJKin settings -> phone, iirc02:01
ShadowJKor maybe even in settings -> (dropdown menu)02:01
SpeedEvilmissed that02:02
ShadowJKit wasn't there in PR1.002:02
DocScrutinizer05it's in settings menu iirc02:04
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AoyagiSo is there a way to tell if it's a HK phone when I get my hands on it?02:05
DocScrutinizer05right button in settings main menu02:05
DocScrutinizer05yes, disassemble it and if your hands are black after that then it's a HK device02:05
DocScrutinizer05don't buy HK02:06
DocScrutinizer05it's always same seller and known to sell crap02:06
DocScrutinizer05while those Polish devices allegedly are real new ones02:07
AoyagiHah, this reseller: "this phone has too few applications, MMS service is missing, the firmware is unfinished"02:08
AoyagiDocScrutinizer51: So there isn't some fine print on the phone saying "this was made in HK business offhours, don't buy it"02:09
DocScrutinizer05nah, all N900 are made in Hungary or Finland iirc02:10
DocScrutinizer05the HK ones are used refurbished ones, poorly refurbished02:11
AoyagiOh yes, that was before Nokia still had some presence in Finland.02:11
AoyagiI mean02:11
AoyagiWHEN they had some presence in Finland02:11
DocScrutinizer05there *might* even be original N900 'made in Hongkong'. Dunno02:12
DocScrutinizer05but that doesn't really mean a thing02:12
DocScrutinizer05it's not about where they been made02:13
DocScrutinizer05it's about where from they are shipped now02:13
DocScrutinizer05I'd suggest you go for a german, austrian, polish(?), or UK one02:14
DocScrutinizer05or czech one if you can find02:14
AoyagiMreh, I don't really trust the yokels here.02:14
DocScrutinizer05dang 5GBP, should order 502:17
DocScrutinizer05Aoyagi: you might be more lucky by searching ebay for a week or two, until there's a bluefon24 one02:18
Aoyagimreh, I'll manage02:19
DocScrutinizer05anyway, welcome here. And c u l8r o/02:19
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AoyagiOh, thanks and thanks for the tips, etc :)02:20
AoyagiAnd it's time for me to hit the bed, see you around.02:23
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DocScrutinizer05errr, actually... ShadowJK what keymat had that phone of bluefon you got from me?02:24
DocScrutinizer05was that qwerty? or sth completely weird?02:25
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infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer0504:17
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DocScrutinizer05quiet earth?07:11
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DocScrutinizer05or has christel /set *  +q  * ?07:12
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kerioyay, new victim!10:16
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: hey12:10
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: 2 things...12:10
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: first; I don't know if reggie is willing to continue running tmo, I asked him some time ago about and had no response12:11
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: second; I want to move my / but some things do not copy properly12:11
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: setting up grub2 worked flawlessly from within my running system but I don't know how to move hardlinks from scratchbox properly12:12
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keriois 46 wakeups/s bad?13:09
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Maceryou know nokia is fail when they start selling their phones at radio shack13:40
AoyagiBecause RadioShack is an evil large corporation?13:43
kerioAoyagi: because americans have no idea that nokia used to make all kinds of phones13:44
kerioand selling cheap phones is not necessarily a bad things13:44
kerio*a bad thing13:45
AoyagiOh I think 3310 is quite famous even among derpmuricans :)13:45
Lava_CroftNokia as a brand is percieved differently in the US as opposed to Europe13:47
AoyagiBut Nokia doesn't seem to care about anything else than brown-nosing Microsoft and maaaybe selling some Ashas.13:47
AoyagiPretty much...13:48
Lava_CroftElop is good to blame for everything13:48
AoyagiYes, the global warming is his fault, of course.13:48
Lava_CroftOPK did much more damage to Nokia than Elop13:49
AoyagiHe did?13:49
Lava_CroftHe is responsible for leaving Nokia to Elop in it's current state13:50
AoyagiI thought he received an offer he couldn't refuse.13:51
Lava_CroftUnder his leadership Nokia wasn't able to put out a real competitor to the iPhone13:51
keriothe n900!13:51
kerioAoyagi: did you buy one yet13:52
AoyagiNot yet, will take time...13:52
AoyagiI don't think it was about 'competition' directly with phones. From what I've seen, it was a purely marketing thing.13:52
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Aoyagi'Look, we have a weird guy in a turtle neck, buy our crapphy phones!"13:53
AoyagiPeople: K.13:53
keriothe first iphone was a pretty awful thing, yes13:53
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keriodeepy\SIGSEGV: did you fix your n900 eventually?14:21
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Palimaemo5 has no GUI option for "remember wifi password for EAP/TTLS+GTC auth"14:32
Palireally annoying if I must enter password every time when connecting to wifi14:32
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PaliI found that password can be stored to gconf key /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/%s/EAP_GTC_passcode and then proprietary eapd daemon can use it14:33
PaliI'd like to see *working* daemon which can connect to any network14:34
Palialso on desktop, NetworkManager is not good solution14:34
Paliis there *any* normal and working network daemon?14:35
Skryconnman is geared towards embedded use, but I think it lacks extensive gui atm14:35
PaliSkry, I can use anything working for my desktop14:36
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Palitext file configuration is still better then non-working app14:37
PaliNetworkManager has support for TTLS+GTC, but for unknown reason in both gnome & kde GUI is missing GTC checkbox14:38
kerioPali: wicd maybe?14:39
Paliand funny is my patch for KDE4 network-manager GUI for GTC chechbox:
Palikerio, has wicd support for *system* profiles?14:39
Palie.g. autoconnect to wifi without need to start some X application14:40
Paliwhat I need is: Start notebook and be sure that it connect to some preconfigured wifi network in range without need to login as some user14:41
SkryPali: netcfg in arch does just that amongst other things, it's a bunch of scripts. I dont know if it is available and/or adapted to any other ditros though14:43
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PaliSkry, is that netcfg connecting to wifi network automatically?14:44
Skrywicd is also good, but iirc it is not maintained anymore14:44
Skryif you configure it to do so14:44
Paliso then it have to daemon (not only shell script)14:45
Skryit uses wpa_actiond for automatic / roaming support14:46
PaliSkry, is there also support for ethernet 802.1X authentification?14:47
Skryno idea14:47
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Skryanyway, it's just a bunch of scripts to wrap around the usual command line tools for networking to make it easy to setup networking in minimalistic way14:49
Paliok, I will look at it14:50
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keriooh joy, my mother spilled some coffee on her laptop15:10
Hurrianwhelp. at least that isn't acidic.15:11
Hurrianbut meh, too much trouble to clean that up.15:11
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kerioHurrian: indeed15:11
kerioand it's a macbook, so beyond removing battery and hard drive, i'm worried that i'll do more damage than the coffee by disassembling it15:12
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kerioluckily i had a tri-wing screwdriver and a torx screwdriver so at least i was able to do *something*15:14
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Hurrianouch, expensive.15:17
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kerionah, they didn't cost a lot15:19
kerio15€ for both, iirc15:19
HurrianI meant the macbook. Hope it still has Applecare or something.15:22
keriowell, it wasn't a lot of coffee, so maybe the liquid sensors weren't tripped15:23
kerioanyway, still works fine apparently15:23
kerioso idk15:23
HurrianDoes it smell like coffee?15:23
HurrianWell, at least it wasn't OJ.15:23
kerioHurrian: it does15:23
kerioouch, optical drive not working15:24
Hurrianuh-oh. power down now, and dry the whole thing.15:24
kerioand the disks come out coated in coffee15:24
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Hurriankerio, did the owner make any effort to lap up said coffee in disc?15:25
keriohow the fuck am i supposed to dry it15:25
Hurriandisassemble it.15:25
Hurrianactually, I think that the disc drive may have went potato.15:26
kerioi already did it, disassembling the optical drive involves a satanic ritual15:26
Hurrianlasers don't like being damaged electically.15:26
kerioapparently the subwoofer sits on it and the antennas for wifi and bluetooth ride around it15:27
kerioso HELL NAW, i'm not touching that15:27
Hurrianif the logic board is reasonably uncaffeinated, you can prolly get away with replacing the drive15:27
kerioi actually have a spare optical drive for macbooks laying around15:27
keriobut i feel that if i actually installed it, she wouldn't learn to keep her coffee away from her laptop15:28
Hurrianquick question, did the event occur with Starbucks brand coffee?15:28
Hurrianor did it happen in a coffee shop of sorts15:28
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keriooh right, i forgot that the rest of the world doesn't know what a proper coffee is15:29
kerioHurrian: think a starbucks espresso15:29
kerioso it's actually very little coffee15:29
Hurriantechnically, a frappawhappamasachino with extra cream.15:30
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kerioand it happened like 10 minutes ago in our house15:30
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HurrianI guess what complicates the situation is the rubber that makes the discs sit nicely when slot loaded must've sucked up some of that.15:30
kerioyep :D15:30
HurrianOh, and the disc slot motors.15:30
kerioand i have no idea how to even access that15:31
HurrianThey must be drenched.15:31
keriothe felt thing definetely is15:31
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kerioHurrian: neat, the optical drive actually works apparently15:50
Hurriankerio, drained it?15:51
keriojust tried multiple times with a disc, cleaning it as it came out15:51
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keriothe keyboard has a couple of stuck keys, but it still hasn't drained properly i think16:03
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DocScrutinizer05espresso? forget it, without cleaning it's dead tomorrow18:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's mostly dead right now actually :(18:21
keriooh well, maybe we can try to abuse the extended warranty to get free repairs18:22
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ShadowJKI forget, what do I need for ssh pubkey login to user on n900 to work?18:24
ShadowJKsilly me18:25
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* ShadowJK was in a term on pc that was already logged in on n900, trying to ssh n90018:25
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: hehe18:27
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: when you say "cleaning", you mean...?^18:27
keriodisassembly everything then clean with water then clean with distilled water then dunk in alcohol?18:28
DocScrutinizer05disassemble, REMOVE BATTERY(!!), rinse thoroughly with clear water, then with ethanol, dry, dry, dry again18:28
kerioyeah, that procedure stops at "disassemble"18:28
keriobecause apple18:28
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DocScrutinizer05even before, since now it's too late18:29
OHN900hey again18:29
keriohi again18:29
OHN900quick question..18:29
OHN900lets say i have an application that i wanna edit some menu text and stuff18:30
OHN900any ideas?18:30
DocScrutinizer05a lot of things. I'm busy, but I'm sure others here will mention *.po, and scratchbox, and hexedit18:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you're always busy! :(18:32
DocScrutinizer05that's why I'm not really a good councilor18:32
OHN900heh well where do i find the .po files?18:33
DocScrutinizer05and of course because I'm a grumpy old fart18:33
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DocScrutinizer05you'd probably better tell the name of that ap. since it also depends on it being a Qt app, or a GTK app, or wtf-else-app18:34
OHN900its piergo18:35
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kerioOHN900: well, it's opensource18:36
kerioOHN900: grab the source, change the changeable, recompile18:37
OHN900okay..where would i find the source?18:37
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DocScrutinizer05~#maemo pkg is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0518:42
DocScrutinizer05~tell OHN900 about pkg18:43
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Siceloreally interesting that Nokia is willing to give financial assistance for the move to Hildon Foundation19:23
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DocScrutinizer05Nokia should be happy to 'be allowed' to show that they care. Otherwise it's not unlikely that some class action would be pending, since they basically discontinue support they implicitly sold with their products only 2 years ago19:29
Siceloi suppose you are right. the legal aspect of the whole affair isn't so understandable to me19:32
DocScrutinizer05there are several cases at court been decided that all say a customer has a _right_ to expect a reasonable timespan of support from manufacturer for a product he bought, even after warranty expires19:32
DocScrutinizer05depending on sales price this timespan may easily exceed 5 years, during which manufacturer is supposed to keep up web services, offer repair service, etc19:33
DocScrutinizer05think of a car you buy, costs 120k-bucks. after 6 months they tell you: spark plugs for this model aren't built anymore, you can basically shredder it19:34
Siceloheh :p19:35
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DocScrutinizer05unlike USA we got some rights regarding this, here in EU19:36
DocScrutinizer05in USA aiui they can sell you any crap that breaks down after 3 months, and they laugh in your face and tell you "so what, but at least the manual warned you to not dry your cat in the microwave oven - we didn't promise it will last forever though"19:38
keriounited states of america, the land of the free corporations19:38
DocScrutinizer05in EU (at least in Germany) we got 24 months of *warranty* by law19:39
kerioi think it's a european thing19:40
kerioit's the same in italy, at least19:40
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Sicelohmm, i think africa suffers from the fate of the USA19:41
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freemangordonBTW there is mobile operator here in Bulgaria who still sells n90019:54
freemangordonwith contract and such19:54
freemangordonand 2 years of warranty of course :)19:55
freemangordonNokia just cannot shut the circus down and say - naah, we don't care. MNOs will eat them alive19:56
RST38hBTW, freemangordon, Opera is crashing again when started from the desktop19:56
RST38hLooks like the issue is limited to using cell data connection though19:57
RST38hDeleting browser.js does not appear to help19:57
freemangordonRST38h: deffinitely19:57
freemangordonwhen on wifi it is OK19:57
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RST38hWhat is it? Can it be fixed?19:57
RST38h'Cause it has become a serious hassle =(19:58
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SpeedEvilfreemangordon: really?19:58
freemangordonRST38h: NFC. And TBH I am not interested in fixing the next closed source crap. Given this is labeled 'beta'19:58
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SpeedEvilfreemangordon: I'd be mildly interested in where they are' getting stuck19:59
RST38hfreemangordon: Well, it worked before. It does not work now. So, the ball appears to be in the CSSU court, doesn't it?19:59
freemangordonAnd having in mind we have a guy wotking for opera hanging on #maemo :P19:59
freemangordonRST38h: not related to CSSU19:59
RST38hHmm, never happened here20:00
freemangordonit behaves in the same way on stock20:00
freemangordonRST38h: read the thread on TMO, no matter what - PR1.3 or CSSU, it is the same20:00
RST38hwell, Opera did not crash on PR1.3 for me20:00
RST38hit does not crash when started from xterm either20:01
RST38hin fact, it did notcrash with earlier CSSUs20:01
freemangordonRST38h: it does not crash when started from terminal here too20:01
RST38hso, all fingers appear to be pointing to maemo-desktop in the latest CSSUs20:01
freemangordonRST38h: I am on "earlier" CSSU, -thumb has not been updated since,ummm..., september?20:01
RST38hwhich is not closed-source, is part of CSSU, etc20:02
freemangordonRST38h: it is not CSSU, opera started crashing by middle or end of october. CSSU-thumb is one month older20:03
Sicelowhich opera are we talking about?20:03
RST38hso you are saying it is their last update?20:03
freemangordonRST38h: no, the must have changed something on the server side20:04
RST38hBut I disabled server-based optimizations20:04
freemangordonRST38h: so what20:05
freemangordonare you sure you know what opera does?20:05
Sicelonever worked at all for me. i went back to 1120:05
RST38hnot really20:06
freemangordon03.11.2012 - 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.1+thumb420:07
freemangordonthe first report afaik is that
freemangordonRST38h: ^^^20:08
freemangordonoops, that is 10-11-201220:08
DocScrutinizer05that is a fsckng bogus format, nothing else20:08
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yeah, but thumb update date is in dd-mm-yyyy format, so I should puth the first report in the same format for easier comparison20:09
DocScrutinizer05either use proper ISO date format like 2012-11-10, or ... well there's no alternative20:10
freemangordonanyway, opera started to crash a week after the last -thumb update20:10
freemangordonnot to say that last -testing was months before that20:11
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freemangordonRST38h: opera downloads a shitload of scripts and whatnot, no matter if you use server-side processing or not20:13
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ShadowJKit stopped crashing for me a week or two ago20:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: laptop doesn't turn on anymore \_o_/20:21
ShadowJKMy father's laptop's hd died yesterday. I've never seen a drive cting so weird, and have so much damaged data while stillhaving some readable data20:24
ShadowJKabout 30-50% bad20:24
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ShadowJKAnd some of the bad causes drive to stop responding for 5 minutes, then it starts reporting unreadable for the entire drive and changes to report capacity as 020:25
vi_kerio: are you referring to opera 12?20:27
keriovi_: yep20:27
keriovi_: also, how do i silence osso-suw for good?20:27
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vi_kerio: apt-get purge <YOUR APPZ HERE>20:27
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keriovi_: some dude did that, and it didn't boot anymore20:27
kerioor something20:28
vi_that was r00t20:28
keriovi_: anyway, i deleted as-* and *activesync* and i feel better about it :320:28
RST38hShadowJK:Sounds like controller problem20:28
vi_and he did not purge it.  he just put an 'exit' in the middle of the xsession script that caused x to abort loading.20:28
vi_thus caused the device to no longer but.20:29
vi_In my case, I have purged it and put in a dialogue that asks for the time as a string of numbers.  Much faster ro start up.20:30
keriovi_: btw, have you tested it?20:30
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keriodate 201212011930 doesn't work for me20:31
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r00t|homevi_: my ntpdate event.d script is working fine, btw20:33
keriovi_: can't you touch that /var/dont_start_suw?20:33
vi_that is my /etc/X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard.20:33
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vi_kerio: probably.20:33
vi_r00t|home: can you pastebinit so I can see?20:34
keriovi_: hell, just remove that thing20:34
keriovi_: it belongs to osso-startup-wizard anyway20:35
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r00t|homevi_: hah!20:35
vi_kerio: i have not fully read what it does with locales.20:35
vi_I am happy with my solution.20:35
vi_I encourage you to create something more elegant.20:36
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kerior00t|home: where do you get ntpdate?20:36
vi_r00t|home: cheers! you read my mind!20:36
r00t|homekerio: i installed the deb from debian-arm i think20:37
kerioi like the cut of your jib20:37
r00t|homenot debian arm, but from 770 instead of n90020:37
vi_r00t|home: so it waits till you get a net connection and then updates the time?20:38
Sicelothere's a location with an N900 ntpdate.. i forget which one20:38
kerioanyway, does the ntpd in openntpd force the time update even with a big delay?20:38
kerioohoho, busybox-power has ntpd20:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: and it even supports -q!20:39
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vi_kerio: oh didnt you know? bb-p is a bit better!20:40
keriovi_: i meant compared to ntpd from the repos20:40
r00t|homevi_: it waits until a defaultroute is present, and then runs ntpdate until the date isn't in 2000 anymore20:42
r00t|homevi_: could use some fixing to be more elegant, but works as-is20:42
vi_r00t|home: I like it.20:44
r00t|homealso not sure if mounts_ok is the best condition to hook it on, that is just copied from elsewhere... there should be something for network_up or so20:45
kerioi think that busybox's ntpd doesn't care about big offsets20:45
r00t|homekerio: busybox has ntpDEAMON, but not ntpdate?20:45
kerior00t|home: ntpd -dnq -p pool.ntp.org20:45
r00t|homei don't see a point in running ntpd on a phone... unless it has a one-shot mode20:45
r00t|homeok, so i could uninstall ntpdate and use that instead...20:46
kerio-d for verbose, -n for don't daemonize, -q for quit after once20:46
kerioi kinda like it running as a daemon, just 'cause20:46
Siceloi have a script in /etc/network/if-up.d/ that runs ntpdate20:48
r00t|homeanother solution, heh20:48
Sicelomy N900 isn't always online20:49
kerioi wonder if it'll fix a several-hours delay20:49
r00t|homethat's why i wouldn't use deamon-mode20:49
kerioso? ntpd is not heavy at all20:49
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kerioit'll just try once in a while20:49
r00t|homemy issue is the dead rtc backup battery, so i just wanted to get the clock fixed automatically on boot20:50
r00t|home(i'd much rather replace the battery, but haven't found conclusive info on if/how that can be done)20:50
kerioopen n900, remove battery, put in new battery, ???20:52
r00t|homeif i replace the battery real quick, like <3s, the clock keeps running... but that only works if it isn't already drained completely20:52
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r00t|homekerio: the BACKUP BATTERY for the rtc, it's soldered on the pcb somewhere20:52
kerioi don't see where my instructions are wrong20:52
r00t|homekerio: i know neither the exact loation, nor a known working replacement type20:52
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r00t|homekerio: there is a forum thread on it, but it seems nobody tried yet20:52
Sicelotalk to DocScrutinizer0520:53
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ShadowJKRST38h; possibly20:58
ShadowJKRST38h; but hd firmwares (and ssd) is usually so buggy they always end up doing random crap when drive starts failing20:59
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keriovi_: am i a bad enough dude to delete osso-startup-wizard?21:04
vi_I was.21:04
vi_make a backup you fool!21:04
fastlane`what does osso stand for?21:04
ShadowJKvi_; i do, others don't :)21:04
ShadowJKfastlane`; open source software operations21:05
fastlane`ty shadow21:05
r00t|homeosso = bone21:05
vi_fastlane`: closed source.21:05
ShadowJKThe smelly linux nerds that used to be locked up in Nokia's basement21:05
fastlane`ok i'm confused21:05
fastlane`now there r 3 definitions and i'm not sure which one is the truth21:06
keriofastlane`: vi_ is trolling21:06
kerior00t|home isn't referring to the same "osso" you're referring to21:06
ShadowJKIt was the name of nokia's linux division before it got the maemo name, afaik21:06
fastlane`no i'm not at all21:06
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keriofastlane`: reread what i said21:06
r00t|homewell, osso happens to mean bone in many languages with latin roots... it's probably not what nokia intendes, but it's funny nontheless21:07
fastlane`sorry i'm dyslexic kerio :(21:07
fastlane`but there r lots of thing not open source in fremantle -__-21:07
r00t|homethere are also things non-free in free-mantle...21:08
kerioit's "fremantle"21:10
r00t|homeit's also "osso"21:11
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fastlane`so about  cssu .. does that allow the device to be used completely without a keyboard? or is it planned for future?21:13
fastlane`just asking21:14
r00t|homewhy would/should that be a goal for anybody?21:14
fastlane`maybe if fremantle is flashed on some other hardware and it actually runs and that device doesnt have keyboard21:15
r00t|homei wouldn't assume this stuff to be in any way portable21:15
fastlane`on any compatible arm hardware you think?21:16
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r00t|homeflash maemo on an android phone? ;)21:18
fastlane`yes :)21:19
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keriohahah some dude on tmo said he sold his n900 for 27$22:31
kerioi have no idea how that makes sense22:31
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ShadowJKWould be different if "Lankku" had made it22:35
keriofor fuck's sake, in some occasions i spent more for my lunch22:35
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FIQi wouldn't mind buying a N900 for $2722:41
vi_kerio: he is a troll.22:43
vi_possibly estel.22:43
vi_but I have not read enough to see.22:43
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fastlane`i wud buy an n900 for that anytime22:45
fastlane`but i saw a chinese made replica for n900, that was for $30 for new22:46
keriochinese replica = not a n90022:46
keriothat means that you saw a bulky chinese phone for $3022:46
fastlane`true, the replica is not even n900, its some bogus os or something inside it22:47
fastlane`no it was ditto n900 from the luks of it, the slider  and camera luk from outside, pretty much the same22:47
fastlane`once turned on though, u can see what the quality is like22:48
fastlane`u can see eevry pixel distincly :D22:48
FIQwhat os did it run? :p22:49
FIQsome weird home-made one or generic android stuff?22:49
fastlane`the shop owner had no idea22:49
FIQ(as most things do)22:49
fastlane`maybe, dont know22:49
kerioi suppose we can thank google for the consolidation of the cheap chinese phones' OS22:49
fastlane`i should go back to that shop and make a little video of it booting, am curious if it even had a home screen22:49
FIQhell, they could even just have thrown in meego in it, it's open source after all22:50
FIQand then people might actually have bought it, even for the low quality :p22:50
fastlane`but then the cost would have gone up, at $30 dont know the hardware would have been good enough.22:50
fastlane`for meego ie.22:50
FIQkerio: I don't mind tbh, at least that makes the phones slighty usable (unlike how they usually are lol)22:51
keriooh, indeed22:52
keriothey used to run some custom-built crap22:52
FIQa friend of me bought a phone like that (he doesn't care as long as it actually works) that ran android22:52
FIQit was actually better than he expected :P22:52
FIQ(for the price he paid)22:52
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fastlane`you have to be careful buying a used n900, just make sure the microusb is in healthy shape. And i dont know how to make sure of that.22:58
kerioask the seller, pay with paypal22:58
fastlane`a friend broke the microusb (it came out) of n900, got it repaired and the repair guy scared him by saying this will only fix once, if u break it again its not going to  work again22:58
keriothen get a refund22:58
fastlane`my friend got it fixed and sold it asap !22:59
kerioif it's fixed properly, it's *fixed*22:59
fastlane`i thought it would, but i dont know the repairing shop guy scared my friend. So he thought before this happens again he wanted to get rid of n900.23:00
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: you think that fake "phone" could run meego? dream on!23:01
DocScrutinizer05iirc data was like: 8MB RAM, 16MB flash23:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you remember where's that picture of the n900 hanging by the usb cable that... ShadowJK had?23:02
DocScrutinizer05nope, don't recall such picture23:02
keriothat picture always makes me cringe >.<23:04
vi_they use mtk chips23:04
vi_they are epicly under powered and run like shit.23:05
DocScrutinizer05the usual dual-SIM crap23:05
ShadowJKthis isn't nearly as bad as when I'm in bed and surfing webs on n900 with charge cable connected, and decide to turn over or shift position, and it turns out the charge cable has snagged around some random crap on the floor23:05
kerioShadowJK: you monster >:C23:05
infoboti guess usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)23:06
ShadowJKThe other day I accidentally tripped on the cable too lol23:06
kerioi know it's perfectly fine, but still23:06
vi_the os is very skinnable and is generally made to look like the timitation on the surface.23:06
fastlane`that pic !23:06
ShadowJKfor some reason usb has never broken for me23:06
DocScrutinizer05^^^ recommended read for *everybody*23:06
kerioShadowJK: so it's not even fixed? D:23:06
kerioYOU MONSTER23:06
kerio<ShadowJK> i'm scared of breaking my main n90023:06
kerioYOU DON'T SAY23:06
vi_FFS is there anyone left who has NOT soldered their usb port down?23:07
* kerio raises his hand23:07
* ShadowJK hasn't23:07
vi_please rescind your n900 and gtfo.23:07
ShadowJKI'm curious, how do you unplug microusb?23:07
keriono u23:07
kerioShadowJK: firm grip on the n900, firm grip on the usb *cable* somewhat close to the solid plug part, pull really gently23:08
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* ShadowJK grabs actual plug 23:08
DocScrutinizer05usually with my fingernails, prying it out by using nails as a lever against the body23:08
DocScrutinizer05case body23:08
kerioi was expecting ShadowJK to say "i just grab the usb cord and start spinning it until the n900 detaches and flies around the room"23:09
DocScrutinizer05but meanwhile all my plugs are working really smooth, and no I haven't filed down anything23:09
ShadowJKwith thumb and finger, like N900|>    the > is thumn and finger, then I squeeze so thumn-finger becomes =, my thumn and finger press against N900 case, and plug is removed with minimal sideways force I hope23:09
ShadowJKkerio; except for the landing, that's probably a nice strategy23:09
kerioIT'S NOT23:09
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FIQvi_> FFS is there anyone left who has NOT soldered their usb port down?23:10
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DocScrutinizer05pulling the cable also is a valid strategy23:10
fastlane`i havnt n i cant .. i have to go back home miles away for that23:11
ShadowJKI wonder how much asymmetric force the locking system being on one side causes23:11
DocScrutinizer05you just should hold the N900 on the small side under the USB plug, next to indicator LED then23:12
fastlane`and yes the microusb on my n900 is alreayd damaged, not completely though, i just have to put a lil pressure on it and not use it while charging, like place a lil weight on its connected microusb cable and then it starts charging23:12
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keriofastlane`: ffs, stop using the port immediately23:12
FIQfastlane`: that's like my microUSB currently, but since it became like that, i stopped using it immediately23:12
infobotmethinks usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)23:12
FIQunless I really need to23:12
vi_fastlane`: DO NOT touch that port till you can fix it.23:13
* FIQ slowly walks away23:13
fastlane`but i have adapted, now i have vnc on my n900 n laptop, and i use it to access all phone functions when charging23:13
kerioFIQ: we're onto you!23:13
fastlane`i dont have anyother phone,23:13
FIQyou do NOT want a broken microUSB23:13
FIQESPECIALLY not now, as they're quite hard to come by23:13
fastlane`i should just buy a second hand nokia 1100 then i guess?23:13
kerioFIQ: huh?23:13
vi_fastlane`: you will have 0 phones if you do not stop using that port.23:13
DocScrutinizer05fastlane`: what you're doing will inevitably result in a broken USB though23:13
keriothe microusb ports are standard, aren't they23:13
FIQkerio: N900s, that is23:14
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keriothis reminds me, i should eventually get around to fix my old n900's usb port23:14
FIQfastlane`: (as long as you don't mind changing, that is)23:14
FIQbecause, have fun finding a n900 replacement otherwise!23:14
fastlane`let me show you a photo if i can take it ...23:15
kerioalso, for some reason the old n900 didn't have a working red camera light23:15
DocScrutinizer05what for?23:15
keriofastlane`: just buy a cheap external charger and use that23:15
FIQfastlane`: My first N900 was like you described, it broke completely after just a month of doing that, but luckily this was like 6 months in n900 release so I got a new N900 from warranty23:16
vi_kerio: or dont. chinese chargers are dangerous shite.23:16
keriovi_: YOLO23:16
FIQnow my second one's USB is beginning to fail, I answered by not charging and use an external charger23:16
DocScrutinizer05fix dat USB receptacle, as long as it's still fixable!23:16
vi_kerio: stfu #SWAG23:17
kerioDocScrutinizer05: if you can make some connection, it's still fixable, right?23:17
DocScrutinizer05usually yes23:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, busybox's ntpd actually has -q to do a oneshot adjustment23:20
keriobusybox-power, that is23:21
FIQthat is what i've gotten ntpd -q from23:21
fastlane`this is how I have to charge it right now .. this little bend on the cable is necessary23:21
merlin1991you could also install rdate from therepos and run rdate -n23:21
merlin1991(for the oneshot adjustment23:22
fastlane`bad pic taken from webcam23:22
keriomerlin1991: i never got rdate to work with ntp servers23:22
merlin1991kerio: you need to use the one from the repos23:22
FIQfastlane`: bad idea23:22
merlin1991not the one by busybox :D23:22
FIQenjoy the usb port in 1 month23:22
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keriodeepy: hi!23:23
fastlane`i'll just listen to you guys i'll try to get tools from some shop if i can find them where i am i dont know the damn city23:23
keriodeepy: i'm sorry your nethack clan SUCKED BALLS23:23
deepyI'm both awake and not sick now23:23
deepyThere's no results that says we didn't win :)23:23
merlin1991nethack clan? o_O23:23
keriobest in show itexplodes, sigsegv in second place23:24
keriomerlin1991: nethack clan!23:24
keriofor the devnull tournament23:24
merlin1991what excatly is the basis on which you judge player performance in nethack?23:24
keriomerlin1991: devnull uses an archaic trophy system, actually23:25
kerioyou won't believe it, high scores actually count23:25
keriowhich is why this dude always wins the clan competition by itself23:25
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deepyI think someone counted that if Berry had been a clan, he would'nt have won this year23:26
keriostill, devnull is stupid23:26
keriodeepy: fixed your n900 yet?23:26
merlin1991kerio: and how are you scored, ascentions over a period of time, or best score within timeframe?23:26
deepyNope, I lack the tools to open it :\23:27
keriomerlin1991: there's a bunch of ways to score points23:27
deepyI completed waldo without ever seeing waldo, or the dog23:27
keriomerlin1991: devnull has some quirky, and buggy, extra challenges23:28
deepyWhich just makes it more fun23:28
deepyI was dumb enough to accept the pool challenge early23:28
deepyno way to push boulders \o/23:28
keriodeepy: apart from the sensor thing, do you like your n900?23:29
kerioi'm the guy who told you to buy one, i feel somewhat responsible now23:29
deepyapart from the battery usage yeah23:30
keriohuh? it doesn't use a lot of battery23:30
deepyThey managed to update LGs 4X HD so I now have more than a days battery on that one (yay)23:30
deepyBut it doesn't last me very long either :p23:30
keriobut yeah, a little more than a day is what most people get, i think23:30
deepyI miss my Sony Ericsson W810i23:31
deepy6 days battery time in general23:31
keriowell no kidding, it didn't do anything23:31
DocScrutinizer05only 6 days?23:31
DocScrutinizer05I get at least 8 days on my N90023:31
deepywell yeah, I listened to music for 8 hours a day on it23:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: :O23:31
deepy8 days on your N900 eh?23:32
kerioi barely get two days23:32
DocScrutinizer05when doing as little as SE W810i *can* do23:32
deepyTeach me your ways!23:32
vi_DocScrutinizer05: not all of us do not use gsm.23:32
kerioin standby23:32
deepyI gotta get started on making apps for it23:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: sure in standby. Do you really believe a W810i could do 6 days of screen backlight?23:33
vi_with all radios off, and a stillsuit in good working order, an n900 can last 10 days in standby in the deep desert.23:33
deepyDocScrutinizer05: it could do like 3 days with the screen on23:33
kerioturned off, it can do a lot23:33
keriodeepy: i think doc doesn't believe that23:33
DocScrutinizer05lemme calculate...23:34
vi_kerio: now my pet just died.23:34
keriovi_: not literally, i hope23:34
vi_I liked it easier when I could just kill these fucking gnomes.23:34
deepyI'm making up numbers there, but while using the phone normally with a lot of screentime you'd still get like 2 days with no problems23:34
keriooh, nethack23:34
DocScrutinizer0520mA for screen backlight? that's not really bright, but possible (if you power down *everything* else)23:34
kerioyou can still kill those fucking gnomes23:34
kerioyou just have the luxury to fight one at a time23:35
vi_but god will get mad.23:35
vi_and I cant see shit down here.23:36
DocScrutinizer05deepy: N900 has basically awesome battery life, it just comes with the option to install and run really idiotic battery-hogging apps23:36
DocScrutinizer05like skype23:36
jogahmm...but does skype hog battery if not logged in?23:36
DocScrutinizer05no, if it's installed on your neighbour's desktop, it won't hog your phone's battery23:37
jogaI get maybe around two days of battery time with minimal usage23:37
jogaDocScrutinizer05 yeah just meant that is there some background foolery going on23:37
DocScrutinizer05joga: usage != activity23:37
DocScrutinizer05yes, skype is doing a LOT of that background foolery23:37
jogaso what's the name of the package, apt-get install sensible-power-options?23:37
vi_DocScrutinizer05: what is wrong with skype? (apart from the obvious)23:38
DocScrutinizer05it runs skyhook or what's the name of that process23:38
vi_joga: you could try battery patch.23:38
DocScrutinizer05better try a sledge hammer23:38
vi_DocScrutinizer05: skyhost.23:38
jogano seriously, if you guys have this sorted out, a package would be nice if there's something everyone should do with their phone to get such benefits23:39
DocScrutinizer05apt-get uninstall -purge skype23:39
keriojoga: it boils down to "all the shit you run reduces you battery life - some things by more than others"23:39
jogaI've tried to tweak unneccessary stuff out but mostly in terms of usability and performance23:39
DocScrutinizer05remove generally all desktop widgets23:40
jogaI only have one I think, which is nextalarm (or such)23:40
DocScrutinizer05don't use 3G23:40
jogaI used to use 2G but after a while noticed it didn't make a very big difference23:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not even to idle?23:40
DocScrutinizer05exploit the magic of top, powertop, and bq27200.sh23:40
keriowithout an active connection23:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you reckon the n900 would keep looking for my home network once connected to a roaming one?23:41
jogawhen I was dating some girl some time ago her flat had this magical property of draining batteries, I guess it had very poor network in the corner where I had the phone23:41
jogawent there with full battery, in the morning phone was dead23:42
keriojoga: was she worth it, at least?23:42
keriolife is all about tradeoffs23:42
ShadowJKI have some friends who have a cabin on a tiny island in the outer archipelago, N900 burns battery there even on 2g :)23:43
keriodo personal gsm/umts repeaters exist?23:43
vi_dont overclock your phone.23:44
ShadowJKThere's a sold/wind powered byuou based floating celltower some distance away23:44
jogaDocScrutinizer05 I always try to keep unnecessary stuff to a minimum and have the cpu/mem systray thingy to notify me clearly if something (major) is going on, disabled all unnecessary transition effects etc, but seems there's much more to do then23:44
ShadowJKbut depending on the seas and the sun/wind, it isn't always operating23:44
vi_or if you must, limit yourself to 720MHz max.23:44
ShadowJKand reaching mainland needs like 4W in that case :)23:44
vi_remove cpu/mem thing from systray.23:44
keriovi_: what? :O23:45
vi_uninstall battery eye23:45
vi_which one?23:45
jogaoh damn, I've forgot all about the battery logging thing23:45
keriothe systray23:45
jogaI haven't checked it in urm.. 2 years or so? but I guess it's still logging23:45
vi_213607 <kerio> joga: it boils down to "all the shit you run reduces you battery life - some things by more than others"23:45
jogaI like the cpu/mem thing because it informs me to wait23:46
keriovi_: tradeoffs23:46
jogaand I know if I've pressed an icon or not :)23:46
ShadowJKbattery-eye isn't all that power consuming I think23:46
keriothe negligible power usage of the systray icon is definetely a good price to pay for the utility23:46
ShadowJKI wish iphb was more accessible to devs (is it at all usable to devs?)23:46
vi_ShadowJK: perhaps not, but it causes a bunch of wakeups.23:47
jogakerio yeah I'd expect it to not hog anything with the screen off, but wouldn't know for sure23:47
ShadowJKIf the systray icon updates even when screen is blanked, it'll cut alot of idletime23:47
jogawhy would it update23:47
kerioi hope it doesn't23:47
kerioi'm getting around 50 wakeups/s when idle23:47
keriois it normal?23:48
vi_that is not even possible.23:48
keriotoo much? too little?23:48
vi_there is never too little.23:48
vi_but that is very few.23:48
vi_how do you get it so low??23:49
kerioidk man23:49
kerioi even have yappari running23:49
vi_joga: screen brightness is a big hog.23:49
kerioTotal wakeups  1470,  49.0/s23:49
keriofor 30 seconds23:49
kerioand powertop running on ssh over wifi23:49
jogavi_ yeah I have it at a decent level, not minimum though23:49
vi_full brightness screen uses ~150mA23:50
vi_kerio: aaah, ok.  I understand now.23:50
keriovi_: ?23:50
vi_I used to be a bit obsessive about wakeups.23:51
vi_Now I ignore then and just go by mA useage as reported by the rather fine bq27x00 script.23:51
kerio11mA right now23:51
keriowifi w/ powersaving, yappari running23:52
keriomy n900 actually does very little23:52
* ShadowJK seems to be at 30mA idle 23:52
* joga checks powertop23:53
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vi_kerio, gsm on.23:54
kerioor possibly even umts23:54
kerioboth with good reception though23:54
jogaumm... why does this say Frequency 1150MHz at the top23:54
keriojoga: it does that for me too, idk why23:55
vi_because PT is bugged.23:55
vi_pali asked for teh soure for the meego version but  nokia failed to deliver.23:55
jogak gotta look at this further later...sleep time23:56
jogasays total wakeups 2789, 93.0/s23:56
vi_joga screen locked?23:57
jogahmm, nope actually23:57
keriojoga: run sudo powertop, lock screen, wait a bit23:57
jogayeah just a sec..23:57
keriothat's what the 11 second delay is for23:57
vi_even better:23:57
SpeedEvilwakeups is less relevant23:57
jogaoh lol23:57
jogaI was just about to type sleep 3; powertop...23:57
vi_sleep 10; powertop; sleep 10; powertop; sleep 10; powertop; sleep 10; powertop;23:57
SpeedEvilwhat ytoy most care about is residence in c4 state23:57
kerioSpeedEvil: about 70%23:58
SpeedEvilideally this should be 3s or more23:58
jogaok hold on I'll run it again..23:58
vi_try it with screen off.23:58
keriooh, persistence23:58
kerioSpeedEvil: avg duration in C4 is 850ms for me :(23:59
SpeedEvilthat's not terrible23:59
vi_just dipped my sword in a fountain in mine town.23:59

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