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| fil | BTW Just got FS sorted out on the other server, and with Speex it's noticably better, so perhaps running Freeswitch under Xen was enough for it tu upset the n900, but not enough to break all my other phones | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | in- or outbound? (N900 side) | 00:03 |
| fil | will have to try transfering the real system over to the new server, and try it with real calls next | 00:03 |
| fil | well, I only get to hear the n900 end normally, and that's what breaks up -- people tell me that they can still hear me saying "I think I lost you again" :-) | 00:04 |
| Skry | hmm, flashable cssu-t image would be nice to have indeed | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fil: I'd think if it's Xen related, then it's ethernet related. A ping should already reveal stuff like jitter and/or too high RTT | 00:05 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: a COMBINED image of CSSU might be weird to make, though | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 00:05 |
| kerio | because COMBINED has everything on the rootfs | 00:06 |
| kerio | and optifies some things on firstboot | 00:06 |
| kerio | but that fucks dpkg up | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then you have to de-optify first, prior to fiasco-gen | 00:06 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: dpkg won't like that | 00:06 |
| kerio | not one bit | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | how's dpkg involved in all that? | 00:07 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: some things install themselves in /opt by default | 00:07 |
| kerio | i'm not sure if cssu has any of that | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it has, that's a bug | 00:07 |
| kerio | why? | 00:07 |
| kerio | :o | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, we don't want new stuff included, just the replaced pkgs which will still be where they ever been | 00:08 |
| kerio | then the only possible issue would be the space | 00:08 |
| kerio | but removing the games will fix that, hopefully :) | 00:09 |
| kerio | at the very least fscking maemoblocks | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, even *if* CSSU 'optifies' genuine Nokia stuff, we'll just have to redo that after flashing, on first boot | 00:09 |
| fil | DocScrutinizer05: well, to the bad sounding server I currently have RTTs between 34ms and 46ms -- the better sounding one is ... oh sod it, it's currently ~33ms and less variable -- I'll have to try it when it's busy again tomorrow and see how it is then | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after optification on first boot, everything looks like on a normal CSSU-T, and no dpkg involved until then | 00:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, it should work | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: but I don't think CSSU optified any core stuff | 00:11 |
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| kerio | there's going to be an issue if CSSU decides to ship *anything* that's in /opt, though | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'd probably have to ship it on / with proper auto-optify setup | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless it's optional and not included in fiasco that way | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's pretty simple: everything needed has to be on COMBINED aka rootfs. Everything else will be installed after flashing and firstboot | 00:13 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, maemo-optify-boottime.sh should really use dpkg diverts for single files | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if something needed shall go to /opt, we need auto-optify (and de-optify for fiasco-gen) | 00:14 |
| kerio | so that there won't be any issue when upgrading those packages | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah *sigh*, a PITA, no matter what we do | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really feel like nuking all that optification shit and sanitize stuff with proper *ultra-early* mount of /usr | 00:16 |
| kerio | i'd like that, too :3 | 00:16 |
| kerio | but the maemo boot process is the product of a twisted mind | 00:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, driven by "duh, we need to entertain user by shaking-hands video when the device needs longer than 5s to boot" | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also by weird act-dead stuff etc | 00:17 |
| trumee | So was the sailfish ui interesting? | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HARM-rev2 | 00:18 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer05: thats a pity | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically UI never are interesting, unless they tell me about how customizable they are | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which basically they didn't | 00:19 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nuking act-dead would be neat, too | 00:19 |
| trumee | Hopefully they will release a device with a keyboard | 00:19 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer05: atleast there is something to follow after n9 | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't actually think so - despite they used N950 to demonstrate, they never used landscape orientation even less the N950 kbd | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all pretty much portrait only like HARM | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | finger-touch only | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | c-ts only | 00:21 |
| trumee | It will be big shame and I will skip it without a keyboard | 00:21 |
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| trumee | There is not much advantage compared with competition without a keyboard | 00:22 |
| * trumee wonders what happened to the Q/A list on tmo about sailfish | 00:24 | |
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| Skry | yeah, my next phone/whatever will have a physical keyboard | 00:31 |
| trumee | Skry: wonder when jolla device will be released outside china | 00:36 |
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| Skry | short and simple answer: in 2013 :) | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or 2014 ;-P | 00:38 |
| Skry | yeah, after the chinese have ripped off the device so they have to release it elsewhere :) | 00:39 |
| Skry | seriously, I do hope they succeed in what they are doing, made me somewhat sad to see their offering is something I'm personally not that interested :\ | 00:41 |
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| Skry | but that was expected | 00:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I still smell an interest conflict for business case in what Jolla plans to do. They're so pretty much focused on OS/SW that it seems to me they need to sell the SW to make money. You can't really sell FOSS SW. Selling HW OTOH seems not Jolla's main interest or even strong differentiation point, particularly if the OS/SW is as easy to port to other HW as they claim it was. | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | So the only way they can create some ROI is by keeping Sailfish closed enough to 'dongle' it to HW which they can monetize | 00:44 |
| Skry | you may have a point there | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | which in turn is not exactly what I'd be interested in buying | 00:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | of course they *could* find a differentiation point in selling proper HW *WITH* *KBD* | 00:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and tailor sailfish to maximize benefit from that "unique" hw feature, as some sort of "dongling" | 00:46 |
| Skry | yeah, who knows. | 00:46 |
| Skry | I don't know, there is something fishy with the whole hardware scheme imo | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once they got a userbase that wants hw kbd, the OS might gain enough momentum to compete with established other OS, even on usual fingertouch-only devices | 00:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | once that momentum is there, they *might* try to monetize some "appstore" | 00:49 |
| Skry | probably, that seems to be the trend | 00:50 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer05 : considering they use android apps, appstore may not be the issue | 00:51 |
| trumee | s/use/can use | 00:52 |
| trumee | Dont thing the device is going to sell very much in west without keyb. And in east they will have to make it very cheaps | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: 'issue' as in, 'that's not what they will be able to monetize' | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, indeed | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so, unless they come up with a proper hw kbd, it's pretty hard to see why to buy a jolla device instead any random android phone | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from a end user perspective | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mass market, whatever | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some linux geeks that however don't want a kbd might be interested | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess that's about half of the users in this chan, at max ;-D | 01:02 |
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| Skry | :) | 01:03 |
| Skry | if only had nokia decided to put a tiny bit bigger display to N900 I wouldnt even have to think about any future upgrade :S | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 01:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the hardore fraction of maemo fans criticized the screen size of N900 from beginning, asking for a formfactor like N810 at least | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3 years back this was a nogo though for a phone. Nowadays it shows we only were ahead of our time | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | :-) | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I actually don't think geeks have different needs than 'normal' users. They just don't take shit | 01:10 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer05 : http://db.tt/cFQAjS9I | 01:10 |
| trumee | Decent battery life on android device, something like that on a proper linux device would be awesome | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trumee: hmm, i'd think my N900 would look quite similar | 01:12 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer05 : my n900 had very poor battery life on active usage. | 01:13 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer05 : is it best to deplete the battery or have it topped up for better battery life? | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | for battery longevity? | 01:19 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil: yes | 01:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | you'd probably want to hack the BME replacement thingy to terminate charge at'80% | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | or so | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | life goes'up notably when you do that | 01:20 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil: right that is about charging, how about discharging? | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | doesn't matter that much | 01:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | other than keep it on charger as much as you can. | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | in practice | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | buy a cheap battery every year | 01:22 |
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| trumee | I read somewhere that it is best to discharge until 10% before charging | 01:24 |
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| ShadowJK | The batteries that have lost most capacity for me, have spent alot of time at 0-10% | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep. that's actually what kills batteries most | 01:29 |
| RzR | and refill them slowly w/ a laptop usb , is it safe ? | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | RzR, huh? | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd reckon, discharging a battery to max 25%, it will live 3 times as long as if you'd discharge it to 5% every time | 01:31 |
| RzR | yes slow charge is said to preserve batteries | 01:31 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd recommend wallcharger and power-kernel/kernel-power or whatever the power user kernel is called | 01:32 |
| ShadowJK | Because with USB charging it stays full, which is also bad. With pk, and wallcharger, it stops charging when full, and then periodically tops it up. | 01:32 |
| RzR | ok makes sense | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I have to say the bme and stock kernel/musb_hdrc, as nasty as it is with constantly keeping battery floating, hasn't ruined my battery as much as I thought it'd do, during last 3 years | 01:33 |
| RzR | all wallchargers are working the same ? | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: yes | 01:34 |
| RzR | thx for the tip | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | charging is done by bq24150 chip (and bme), the wallcharger is basically just a powersupply | 01:34 |
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| rZr | bedtime | 01:35 |
| rZr | bye | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 01:35 |
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| Skry | btw is the mugen battery worth the bucks? | 01:37 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 muses about a battery lifetime extender app: shut down device at 3.5V bat voltage, unless user hits the "activate sleeping reserve energy" button when bat-low alarm yells | 01:37 | |
| Skry | I might be spending winter in the middle of nowhere with practically no electricity so.. | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: no way | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: mugen is basically nonsense. get some 4 spare batteries for less than what mugen costs | 01:38 |
| * ShadowJK has 12V 21Ah battery bank on his desk | 01:38 | |
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| Skry | car battery it is then :D | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: yeah, or that | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | with a good (high efficiency, switching step-down converter) USB car carger, you'll get the most hours per buck out of car battery | 01:40 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah | 01:40 |
| ShadowJK | Small cellphone batteries are pretty expensive on a bucks per watthours basis | 01:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 4Wh / battery (~10bucks?) | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | easily more | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bucks | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | car battery: 400Wh for 50 bucks | 01:42 |
| Skry | I think I have decent usb car charger stashed somewhere, and car batteries are everywhere so that might be my best option | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: decent charger := one that doesn't get warm | 01:44 |
| Skry | yep | 01:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | of course in a 'small' case, it's no magic to stay cool when case is like a 5¼" floppy alu | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | usually car chargers should be "decent", since small case is very common and they couldn't do that with crappy linear regulators | 01:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 takes mental note to test how good his monster universal power supply works. Has laptop power outlet, USB power outlet, mains, and a 12V power-in/out (chargers as well as powers the device, depending on mains available or not) | 01:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty cool device | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AC in: 100-240V; DC out 12V@10A; DC out 12/15/16/18/19/20/24V@3.75A; USB 5V@1A | 01:53 |
| Skry | nice one | 01:53 |
| Skry | meh, I should worry about how to stay warm, or alive for that matter, and here I am asking about batteries | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I actually notice it's also a pretty nice simple UPS for 12V-24V electronics, when accompanied by a car battery | 01:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.rakuten.de/universal-notebook-akkus/tiveco-netzteil-notebook-90w-tiveco-universal-tm-901-646136590.html | 02:01 |
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| ShadowJK | Well, this a-data card is giving me 13M/s read on n800 | 02:02 |
| ShadowJK | otoh N800 also crashed once with it already :) | 02:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.rakuten.de/esata-festplatten/tiveco-tiveco-tm-nb901-netzteil-wechselstrom-usb-735773315.html <-probably more like that one | 02:03 |
| Luke-Jr | are Mugen battery covers NOT including a lens cover⁇? wtf? | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nope they don't afaik | 02:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | a last link to the now correct type of tiveco universal PSU: http://www.amazon.de/Netzteil-Notebook-UNIVERSAL-TM-NB-902-TM-902/dp/B0035ELFF2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A32XODS80LGDHJ&qid=1353543350&s=generic&sr=1-1 | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | recommended by DocS ;-) | 02:19 |
| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: lame, know any hacks to fix it up? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fix what? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | missing cover glass? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | missing door? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it has a switch, emulating the door | 02:23 |
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| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: missing door | 02:27 |
| Luke-Jr | otherwise the lens is sure to get scratched up in my pocket | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even when recessed by 10mm? | 02:27 |
| Luke-Jr | sure, that won't stop stuff from jabbing in at it | 02:27 |
| ShadowJK | your screen must look terrible now :P | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I don't own such back cover | 02:28 |
| Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: not too bad, but I don't use it for taking high res pics | 02:28 |
| ShadowJK | what | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually, I again have to pester you, since the one I got me isn't available anymore (just to be true with you): http://s261498184.online.de/cms/index.php/en/nb-traveling-90.html | 02:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I checked it now, the DC *out* 12V@10A is a lie. It doesn't charge the care battery when plugged into mains | 02:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | still nice, but... | 02:52 |
| nox- | maybe it can supply 12v on its laptop output? | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it can | 02:55 |
| nox- | so thats the 10A then i suppos3e | 02:55 |
| nox- | -3 | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that needs additinal switches or plugging then, to change from Mains+charge_carbat to powered_from_carbat | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, that's 3.75A max. The 10A are *input* max | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess | 02:56 |
| nox- | ah | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~10*12*0.8 | 02:57 |
| infobot | 96 | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 90W | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | +24*3.75 | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~24*3.75 | 02:58 |
| infobot | 90 | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0.8 efficiency | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably a second small wallwart charger 12V unregulated is easier and cheaper than sophisticated relais stuff to do any switching in case of mains power blackout | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, 4 * philips-1 ;-D | 03:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | OMFG! I probably shouldn't have opened it. Wonder how this thing dares to cary a "CE" stamp :-O | 03:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the *whole* soldering side of PCB (primary side 230V as well as secondary side, USB etc) sit on a alu heatsink, isolated from that alu by a 0.1mm plastic foil - until pierced by the solder points / cut wires | 03:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | :-) | 03:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi-b9k-0KfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player is amusing on that topic | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20121122_001.jpg +002,003,004 seeing is believing here | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | caution: contains Australian, | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | eeek | 03:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we got heee, saifa | 03:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aah cheeez | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: indeed, I probably sounded quite similar, at least my wording, when I looked at that PSU | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | and os course, 90% of PSUs on eBay are like that | 03:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | awesome :-D | 04:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! I mean: I'm THE DEVIL, do you understand? | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (90%) sure. Just recall my last rant about chinese optimization | 04:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-11-21 12:38:07] <DocScrutinizer05> chinese method of "development" | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-11-21 12:39:03] <DocScrutinizer05> get 100 monkeys and make them remove components. As soon as device stops working, revert last component removal and declare that the golden sample | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | muntz | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_Muntz | 04:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntzing rather | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, thanks for that ;-D. Didn't know | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | amazing it's been an American to invent that | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys muntz | 04:11 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'muntz' by key returned no results. | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~muntzing is EE the Chinese way (though invented in USA): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muntzing | 04:12 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 04:12 |
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| bef0rd | hi, anyone using mountain lion ? I'm unable to install flasher-3.5 on it | 04:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | umm | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or: how? | 04:36 |
| bef0rd | no idea, pkg claims to be successfully installed but it's not on /usr/bin, I can see the docs got installed though /usr/share/doc/flasher-3.5 | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe it's somewhere else? | 04:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea how to do a search on macOS, console and `find` come to mind. But also looking into the installation pkg (by whatever means) to learn what path it's supposed to get installed to | 04:42 |
| bef0rd | yea, I'm checking the logs | 04:42 |
| bef0rd | it worked last time on the previous OS X version | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno, maybe OS X has something like $install-path that's different now? /opt/* and /usr/local/* might be valid install destinations | 04:45 |
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| bef0rd | mm I'll just ask on tmo | 04:57 |
| bef0rd | and get flasher for other os in the mean time | 04:57 |
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| Luke-Jr | I don't know what went down with Estel, but… I can't seem to figure out how this works: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1038196&postcount=799 | 05:17 |
| Luke-Jr | the slider doesn't seem to move enough distance | 05:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Luke-Jr: maybe a nice idea to shorten the slider so much that LEDs never are covered ;-D | 05:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mad useful for flashlight | 05:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | I keep meaning to do that | 05:53 |
| SpeedEvil | drill a couple of holes, and fill with clear. | 05:54 |
| * Drathir think that goin to very like sshfs ^^ | 05:55 | |
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| Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: but N900 won't let you turn it on with the "cover" over it | 05:56 |
| Drathir | trying to watch media trought wifi... ssh x forwarding works to slow and without sound... but mouting with sshfs and directly open works great... | 05:56 |
| * Drathir give a hug n900 ^^ | 05:57 | |
| Drathir | DocScrutinizer51: bud idea with shorten... | 05:58 |
| SpeedEvil | The n900 will. | 05:58 |
| SpeedEvil | the default camera may not | 05:59 |
| Drathir | to much dirty thing goin inside lens also will be dirty... | 05:59 |
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| Drathir | better chose Latarka app | 06:00 |
| Drathir | fast on and off flashlight... and the cover open only need to close camera or take them to the background... | 06:02 |
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| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: the default camera doesn't even support flashlight mode :P | 07:03 |
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| Luke-Jr | Drathir: hmm | 07:04 |
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| Drathir | DocScrutinizer51: n900 have special device to convert video? hardware side? | 07:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like what? | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think the GPU does scaling etc | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also can decode h.263(?) baseband | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there might be like 3 to 5 framebuffers, and a hw compositor | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might find those links useful: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain | 07:20 |
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| kerio | Drathir: to play videos? | 07:48 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's h.264 too i think (hope?) | 07:48 |
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| Devilinside | help plzz.. can anyone send me his sources.list please... i messed it up. | 08:36 |
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| merlin1991 | Devilinside: what's missing | 10:02 |
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| ceteigrek | morning | 11:43 |
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| Skry | morning | 11:46 |
| Skry | Drathir: N900 has DSP which is used for media decoding and encoding | 11:49 |
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| Skry | now, there's some quite interesting stuff for C64x+ DSPs, including a linux "distro" | 11:57 |
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| Sosica | Estel was banned?? | 12:06 |
| Cor-Ai | aww they banned our baby princes! | 12:06 |
| Sosica | but, but....I was looking forward to this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83928 ... | 12:09 |
| Cor-Ai | ohh! | 12:13 |
| Skry | that would have been a nice project to see come true | 12:14 |
| Sosica | well he messed up in the process, but the idea was really nice :) | 12:16 |
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| vi____ | Aluminium is a retard idea. | 12:34 |
| vi____ | Why would you want LESS phone signal? | 12:34 |
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| vi____ | Soo much jolla spam on TMO. | 12:52 |
| vi____ | Just another closed hot -shit-pudding. | 12:53 |
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| vi____ | chem|st: Any chance of merging all the jolla spam on TMO? | 13:30 |
| pavi | vi____: Jolla is the only future available for N900 brand of phones .. why call it spam? | 13:41 |
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| Skry | eh.. | 13:45 |
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| vi____ | pavi: lol orly? | 13:46 |
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| pavi | vi____: as of now | 13:46 |
| vi____ | More close sourced swipe junk is the the future? | 13:47 |
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| Skry | the only future for N900 brand of phones lies in CSSU and other linux flavours, Jolla has nothing to do with it | 13:48 |
| Skry | and if we talk about successors, there is none for N900, either from Jolla or anyone else | 13:50 |
| Skry | for now at least | 13:50 |
| vi____ | Yay, swipey loltweets on your faceblog. | 13:51 |
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| m4g0g | hm | 14:09 |
| m4g0g | I think that developing app with qt-creator is better than via maemosdk. | 14:09 |
| m4g0g | because it's much easyer to test app | 14:10 |
| vi____ | What if I want to write programs and not appz? | 14:10 |
| m4g0g | or I don't understand omething important in process | 14:10 |
| m4g0g | vi____: what difference between program and appz? | 14:11 |
| merlin1991 | m4g0g: in what way is testing easer on qt-creator? | 14:17 |
| m4g0g | start on device and start on emulator without any additional actions | 14:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see how generic qt-creator will handle cross-platform-development | 16:13 |
| m4g0g | install QtSDK with madde. Start creator from this sdk and that's all | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | madde is a dedicated maemo SDK | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | available for windows host platform only, afaik | 16:15 |
| m4g0g | lol | 16:15 |
| m4g0g | I develop my app under gentoo | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I heard it's pretty unsuited for developing any non-Qt stuff | 16:15 |
| m4g0g | non-qt - may be. | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, up to you to pick your SDK according to your preferences | 16:16 |
| m4g0g | but I develop Qt-app and this solution is better for me | 16:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also anyway madde and SB both are maemoSDK | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine, now we all know about this fact | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qt-creater is not the same as madde, however | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | madde >> qt-creator | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | vi____: ((<m4g0g> vi____: what difference between program and appz?)) now you see why Nokia thought it's a nice move to 'drop' proper SDK in favor of QML, for HARM | 16:20 |
| m4g0g | but, imho, for qt-development it's better way | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine! so what? | 16:21 |
| m4g0g | nothing | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd suggest you then use madde for Qt development, and everybody happy. No? | 16:21 |
| m4g0g | =) | 16:22 |
| m4g0g | yep | 16:22 |
| vi____ | DocScrutinizer05: I have to write a program in C on a windows computer. | 16:30 |
| vi____ | Where the fuck do I start? | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe install eclipse? | 16:31 |
| vi____ | apt-get install build-essentials | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather: get that ms development suite, free edition | 16:32 |
| vi____ | and people call linux hard! | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | studio? | 16:33 |
| vi____ | mmm | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, coffee refuses to kick in - or Freud does | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | visual studio! | 16:33 |
| vi____ | solution: get more. | 16:33 |
| vi____ | http://www.blogcompiler.com/2010/06/13/gcc-for-windows/ | 16:33 |
| kolp | vi____: Try code:blocks for an IDE | 16:34 |
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| kolp | Comes with gcc | 16:34 |
| vi____ | is it anything like vim? | 16:34 |
| kolp | Code::Blocks even | 16:34 |
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| kolp | Sure ;) | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my last job required me using eclipse under winXP | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 12 years ago I used VisualStudio | 16:36 |
| vi____ | I installed VS once. | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which had a rather useful editor at that time, and semi-decent integration of editor and compiler | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (admittedly mainly for VB back when - not my choice!) | 16:37 |
| spoofy | vi____: I broke my usb in n900.. | 16:38 |
| spoofy | So you'll have to wait for PPP | 16:38 |
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| vi____ | spoofy: aw lame. Did you not solder it down? | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DANG! | 16:39 |
| spoofy | apocalypse.. | 16:39 |
| Dynamit | how the f*** broke the usb on N900 | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia Care now does repairs of USB ports, if you refuse to bring warranty docs | 16:40 |
| spoofy | I send it to my man in nokia care | 16:40 |
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| spoofy | He's the only guy in poland that can repair it without loosing warranty | 16:40 |
| vi____ | You will get an N8 back. | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if they refuse or declare it a total damage, you still can look for hardore solutions at | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~usbfix | 16:41 |
| infobot | rumour has it, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spoofy: USB fix on warranty == swap for N8 | 16:41 |
| spoofy | Yeah.. I saw on forum.. | 16:41 |
| spoofy | nope | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:42 |
| spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: I have a man working in nokia care | 16:42 |
| spoofy | He will do this without loosing warranty | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he will send it in and get a letter from Nokia center: "we destroyed the defect product, please hand out a N8 for warranty replacement" | 16:43 |
| spoofy | He's working in nokia care service | 16:43 |
| spoofy | ugh jeezzz :) No | 16:43 |
| Pali | ~seen X-Fade | 16:43 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo #harmattan #meego #maemo-ssu, last said: 'ZogG_laptop: ?'. | 16:43 |
| spoofy | If he won't repair it I'll go to nokia care and I'll swap for n9 | 16:44 |
| spoofy | or lumia | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 16:44 |
| spoofy | then I'll sell it and buy another n900 | 16:44 |
| vi____ | spoofy: Good luck with that. | 16:45 |
| spoofy | vi____: yeah.. | 16:45 |
| spoofy | I hope he'll repair it | 16:45 |
| spoofy | He told me that the pins on board can't be broken | 16:45 |
| vi____ | wut | 16:45 |
| vi____ | You mean the tracks/pads? | 16:45 |
| vi____ | Yes they CAN be broken. | 16:46 |
| vi____ | Quite easily. | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | definitely | 16:46 |
| vi____ | That is the problem. | 16:46 |
| spoofy | No - onboard usb pins | 16:46 |
| vi____ | I think we are talking about different things. | 16:46 |
| spoofy | ugh.. my lame english -,- - the pins must be broke on usb part not on motherboard | 16:46 |
| vi____ | Do not worry, my polish is lame. | 16:47 |
| vi____ | Although I did once manage to order a drink in poland. | 16:47 |
| vi____ | That was nie jeden pivo | 16:47 |
| spoofy | lol :D | 16:48 |
| spoofy | We drink alot | 16:48 |
| spoofy | but russians are better | 16:48 |
| vi____ | Jestem śrubokręt? | 16:49 |
| vi____ | To jest kapusta? | 16:49 |
| spoofy | google translator? | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spoofy: so you meant, he can only fix it if the PCB pads are not broken? that's almost correct | 16:49 |
| spoofy | yeah | 16:49 |
| vi____ | No, I ordered a screwdriver (the drink) | 16:49 |
| spoofy | couse he must do this like no sign of repair | 16:50 |
| vi____ | But I cannot remember how to say it :/ | 16:50 |
| spoofy | it must look clean on pcb | 16:50 |
| spoofy | maybe the "wild dog" drink? :D | 16:50 |
| spoofy | I prefer clean whiskey with 3 ice cubes ;) | 16:50 |
| spoofy | Jimmy hendrix on speakers and fluxbox with arch.. ugh.. | 16:51 |
| spoofy | Am I Hipster? | 16:51 |
| Skry | definetely | 16:51 |
| spoofy | damn it -,- | 16:51 |
| vi____ | spoofy: I am afraid so. | 16:52 |
| vi____ | Do you have an ironic moustache? | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (if that helps (for english): "the pcb pads MUSTN'T be broken, to allow fixing") | 16:52 |
| spoofy | Ok I'll use google translator next time :x | 16:52 |
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| spoofy | I must use unity or jolla ui to be more cool.. | 16:54 |
| Skry | unity is in aur, go for it already :) | 16:55 |
| Skry | you'll be puking ponies in no time | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spoofy: you should have a look at ~usbfix reinforcement soldering procedure anyway. I'd rather worry about making USB rock sturdy, rather than about losing warranty | 16:56 |
| spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: But my n900 is on 1,5 y warranty. After ~1,4 y I'll broke usb again and nokia care will give me new phone | 16:57 |
| spoofy | I'll sell it and buy jolla phone | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB reinforcing USB by itself is no valid reason to deny warranty | 16:57 |
| vi____ | spoofy: if your favourite hobby is haxing, I doubt jolla will do it for you. | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess in 1.5 years you'll get more money for a working N900 than for whatever Nokia would send you as a replacement | 16:59 |
| spoofy | vi____: by creating simple app with one button "Hack it!"? | 16:59 |
| spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: not in poland.. | 16:59 |
| vi____ | DocScrutinizer05: That is why I am stocking up! | 16:59 |
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| spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: if nokia will exist after 1,5 y | 17:00 |
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| vi____ | spoofy: Backtrack 3 all ready had that. There was a giant red button that you could click called 'haxxor it now!'. | 17:00 |
| vi____ | It fired up metasploit with autopwn. | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some of us are already willing to pay up to 400EUR for N900 in mint condition | 17:00 |
| vi____ | DocScrutinizer05: YOU KNOW OF A MINT N900 OFR ONLY 400 EURO??? WHERE?? | 17:01 |
| spoofy | vi____: new in poland | 17:01 |
| spoofy | for 300 euro | 17:01 |
| spoofy | on 2y nokia care warranty | 17:01 |
| Skry | tempting | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | migth get me #5, #6 | 17:02 |
| spoofy | I'll buy it for you - Just gimme a n950.. | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 17:02 |
| vi____ | N950 for a mint n900. | 17:02 |
| vi____ | Sounds like a good deal. | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I have to pay 600EUR fine to Nokia if I give it away | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I'd probably consider it | 17:03 |
| spoofy | Is there any chance that david will make a packet injection for n9/n950? | 17:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | why not? | 17:03 |
| vi____ | spoofy: If you pay him. | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and give him a N9 ;-P | 17:04 |
| spoofy | I'll pay for packet injection on mer/jolla | 17:04 |
| spoofy | If he can do it.. why not? N950 with packet injection & external charger - an ultimate setup | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 17:06 |
| vi____ | spoofy: Till the screen dies. | 17:06 |
| vi____ | No replacement parts. EVER. | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no more updates either | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe that's of minor importance for hax0rs like spoofy | 17:08 |
| spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: on harmattan - no, on mer/jolla - yes | 17:08 |
| psychologe | spoofy,packet injection on jolla is very cool | 17:08 |
| vi____ | wtf, jolla does not even exist yet. | 17:08 |
| spoofy | DocScrutinizer05: yeah I don't need screen.. I need only a hw keyboard.. | 17:09 |
| vi____ | spoofy: o0 | 17:09 |
| spoofy | What kinda pr0 hax0r need any output? | 17:09 |
| spoofy | That's pointless.. | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what kind of lame hax0r software needs any input? so go for a gumstix or sheevaplug or sth | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | start button, feedback by beep signals | 17:11 |
| spoofy | What kinda hax0r need any hw anyway? | 17:11 |
| spoofy | like r2d2 or modem.. | 17:11 |
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| Skry | yeah just embed winmodem to your skull and think really hard of handshaking | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen ivgalvez | 17:14 |
| infobot | ivgalvez <~ivgalvez@89.140.113.138.static.user.ono.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 8d 22h 58m 38s ago, saying: 'feel free to draft proposal and send it to Board'. | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 17:15 |
| Skry | btw is modem breakage common amongst N900's? | 17:15 |
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| vi____ | Skry: It is the second biggest cause of broken n900 | 17:16 |
| Skry | ok, too bad.. I'm seeing one on sale for ~40eur with a description "works fine but you can't make calls with it" | 17:17 |
| vi____ | Skry: Well it ether means the CMT is broken or it just needs a reflash. | 17:17 |
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| vi____ | It is a gamble. | 17:17 |
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| Skry | that's what I thought too | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 40EUR is maybe fine for a spare parts kit | 17:31 |
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| chem|st | vi____: become mod and doooooo IT! | 17:48 |
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| chem|st | I was away preparing my seminar speech... smoked it btw | 17:48 |
| vi____ | You smoked your speech? | 17:50 |
| chem|st | the paper it is written on! | 17:52 |
| chem|st | no the audience | 17:52 |
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| teotwaki | What was just found in our codebase: function unique_id() { return rand(1000, 9999); } | 18:10 |
| tadzik | wow | 18:11 |
| tadzik | I can imagine you drawing a sledgescalpel while waiting for git-blame to appear | 18:11 |
| teotwaki | tadzik: not under version control | 18:18 |
| tadzik | ouch | 18:18 |
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| kerio | teotwaki: then it's not source code :) | 18:33 |
| teotwaki | kerio: I never said source code, I said code base. | 18:33 |
| teotwaki | It looks like some ninja code running on one of the web services | 18:33 |
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| ShadowX | Is it possible to use N9's USB in host mode ? | 19:01 |
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| rm_you | hrm.... having issues with my N900 finally :( | 20:58 |
| rm_you | when I plug it in the charging light goes on, the screen lights up, it does the Nokia logo and does the booting up progress dots for a second or so, and then the screen turns off and I get nothing :( | 20:59 |
| kerio | battery? | 21:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, normal process of booting into act-dead | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it doesn't boot up without charger plugged in, then battery is flat/dead, and probably for some reason the boot process until the point where bme starts up normal charging takes a tad too long for battery to support normal operation that long | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | usually when NOLO starts up linux kernel, the emergency charging should have charged battery sufficiently to close the power gap until kernel booted and bme got started. If however for some reason bme starts later or not at all, or battery is worn out and weak, it might not be strong enough for that duty | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, rm_you gone | 22:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders whom he's talking to | 22:47 | |
| kerio | nobody | 22:50 |
| kerio | rm_you left | 22:50 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what's the reason for the existance of ACT_DEAD mode? | 22:57 |
| ShadowJK | charging without "turning on" | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | alarms when switched off | 22:59 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: the first is a lie | 22:59 |
| kerio | the second is a lie too, because it just boots anyway a minute before the alarm is up | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | so is "turning off" | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Q: what's act_dead mode? A: a runlevel of linux where unplugging of charger causes `shutdown -h now` | 23:08 |
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| jaska | wonder why they didnt deal with charging in some other chip firmware | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Q: are there other modes than charger_plugged that are related to act_dead? A: yes, RTC alarms from power-down also cause act_dead mode, in that case `shutdown -h now` will get done when you answer 'nope' to requester "do you want to start up device?" | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jaska: they do, that's called emergency charging (actually I named it like that) | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the "firmware" is in bq24150 chip in this case | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what *I* wonder is: why didn't they include a proper charging mode into NOLO? | 23:17 |
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| ShadowJK | yawn | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only explanation I could think of: Nokia already had not the smallest faintest inhouse competence with bme at times when N900 got developed. And the external company that maintained bme for Nokia wasn't eager to migrate bme to NOLO | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | Because then people would flash nolo with garbage and wonder why there's no hw charger, and then when there's hw charger, people would fry the hw charger chip and wonder why the charger (aka wall adapter) doesn't have charging functionality, then they'd pee on the wall charger and wonder why the outlet doesn't work | 23:19 |
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| ShadowJK | Other explanation is that it follows the symbian model, where from act_dead to "device on" is about 1 second, but full boot is minutes | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, though it's kinda tempting, I think this explanation has some weak points | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | So if the alarm woke you up in the morning after being switched off for the night, your phone could "switch on" almost instantly after the alarm | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait til pali tought uBoot to do proper charging, and you're settled with 'NOLO (aka bootloader) charging mode' | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | I think the same audience that was designed for, is the same audience they had to stress test filesystems for unexpected powerloss thing :) | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | couldn't be too hard to port charge21-simplified to a uBoot script | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui all that's missing for doing this little fancy is uBoot knowing to do I2Cget/set | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since uBoot is no multitasking kernel, a rudimentary I2C driver should be piss simple to implement | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably less than 200 c lines | 23:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | incl cmdline parsing | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | Also check if you could get someone to leak nolo's doom3d mode :) | 23:27 |
| kerio | there's a doom3d mode? :o | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | I heard someone made a 3d shooter thingy in nolo | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually, on a second thought, I'm sure uBoot already has to have a i2c driver | 23:29 |
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| m4g0g | hello | 23:31 |
| m4g0g | Does somebody use oauth library in their applications? | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: your explanation along the line "from act_dead to "device on" is about 1 second" doesn't fit. Since on maemo a boot from act_dead to normal runlevel is via full reboot | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | Alot of other things are half-done on maemo too :-) | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually it seems like power-on from act_dead is a `shutdown -r now` | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as opposed to `shutdown -h now` for unplugging charger | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | It's better on maemo4 | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you seem to be in a grumpy mood towards fremantle today ;-) | 23:38 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair, fremantle is a piece of crap | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what? shall I applaud? oppose? ignore you? | 23:40 |
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| kerio | i'm just saying that feelings of grumpiness are to be expected | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: to be fair, computers are shite | 23:40 |
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| kerio | and that's why grumpiness is to be expected :) | 23:40 |
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| m4g0g | I try to use kqoauth for oauth but it doesn't works | 23:48 |
| m4g0g | work* | 23:48 |
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| Drathir | hi all... have question anyone try to change way how opera open youtube links? like try to opera play videos with mplayer?? | 23:58 |
| vi__ | yes computers are shite. | 23:58 |
| vi__ | Drathir: not possible. | 23:58 |
| vi__ | opera is a sandbox. | 23:59 |
| vi__ | nothing escapes. | 23:59 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: why not use the maemo SDK vm image? | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds quite sensible | 23:59 |
| Drathir | vi__: thanks a lot for save a time for looking... | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: dunno | 23:59 |
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| vi__ | Drathir: I want it too...however too bad. | 23:59 |
| kerio | Drathir: copypaste the link manually, i guess | 23:59 |
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