IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-11-19

teotwaki	this being said, make sure you use the right codecs	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	:-D	00:00
vi___	teotwaki: !!!	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	even better: make sure you don't use the wrong codecs ;-)	00:01
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teotwaki	When your client sends an INVITE, it tells the receiving end that there's a priority list in terms of codecs, PCMU, PCMA, speex, etc.	00:01
teotwaki	not all codecs are created equal	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	iirc for an inbound INVITE the far end should offer all available codecs in SDP	00:02
teotwaki	sure	00:02
vi___	~SDP	00:02
infobot	IRC is known to be a form of the Streaming Documentation Protocol.	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	hey, it's the " doc's late" day	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	session Description Protocol afaik	00:03
teotwaki	Does the n900 support RTCP?	00:03
DocScrutinizer05	afaik not	00:03
teotwaki	hmm	00:03
DocScrutinizer05	not sure though	00:04
teotwaki	FWIW, I've been experimenting with an in-house protocol for high-bandwidth low-latency networks.	00:04
teotwaki	Where basically, instead of sending a beat every x seconds (usually, every 20ms) which has the same size every time	00:04
teotwaki	I calculate the network's MTU, and use that to plug in as much data as possible	00:05
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DocScrutinizer05	hmm, interesting approach	00:05
teotwaki	It works pretty nicely, network load went down roughly 20%, while retaining the same number of calls	00:05
DocScrutinizer05	I gather it slightly increases latency though	00:06
teotwaki	probably	00:06
teotwaki	but it only works for intra-server calls, anything that talks to an audiocode has to use public protocols	00:06
DocScrutinizer05	sure	00:07
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teotwaki	BTW, has anyone used Boost's bzip2 implementation?	00:08
teotwaki	or rather, their istream filter?	00:08
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DocScrutinizer05	libBoost? WAAAAAAH!	00:13
merlin1991	hm?	00:13
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teotwaki	DocScrutinizer05: do not criticise boost	00:14
DocScrutinizer05	twinkle used regex from libBoost, so eventually I tried to compile that monster	00:14
DocScrutinizer05	compiling Qt or openoffice is a walk in the park compared to libBoost	00:14
teotwaki	Boost is piss easy	00:15
teotwaki	first of all, half of it doesn't need to be comiled	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	it's piss fsckg HUGE	00:15
teotwaki	the other half just requires jam. cd boost; ./bjam	00:15
teotwaki	also, DocScrutinizer05, the world has helped us get package managers, you know, things like aptitude and yum	00:16
teotwaki	Use them.	00:16
DocScrutinizer05	back when I had a laptop with a 300MHz P-II and a HDD that for sure wouldn't suffice for Boost even if completely empty	00:16
tadzik	or recent gcc, for that matter	00:17
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DocScrutinizer05	well, I just thought it's a bit of overkill for a silly regex, and I definitely never managed to compile it back when	00:18
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DocScrutinizer05	prebuilt .so didn't help - wrong version	00:19
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teotwaki	sorry, lapto overheated	00:22
DocScrutinizer05	hehe, like did mine when I tried to get libBoost built	00:23
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	00:23
teotwaki	DocScrutinizer05: Boost is probably one of the greatest things in the C++ world.	00:23
DocScrutinizer05	s/greatest/hugest/	00:23
teotwaki	most of it is template-only, which means there is no dependency when distributing it. It's peer reviewed, which means the quality and optimisation level is just crazy.	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	yeah sure	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	it just gave me one week of swearing	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	not being able to build twinkle, due to a silly regex from a 5000GB lib	00:25
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DocScrutinizer05	-devel:~50MB, -doc-html:~120MB	00:32
DocScrutinizer05	not much by today's metrics, a friggin lot back when	00:32
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fil	I see what you mean about wireshark & SIP -- been a while since I played with wireshark (it was probably called ethereal at the time ;-) ) -- I don't think it had all this cleverness then	00:50
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fil	it's not very pleased with the RTP n900-->Freeswitch. seems that there are several jumps in the packet sequences -- whereas Freeswitch-->n900 it seems pretty cheerful about	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	that suggests that CPU on N900 is overloaded	00:56
DocScrutinizer05	though N.B. that wireshark doesn't guarantee lossless capture	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	ideally you'd capture the traffic somewhere later in the nework stack, e.g on a PC working as AP	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	or (maybe even more simple) at the far end on inbound traffic	00:59
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DocScrutinizer05	you might try and renice -5 wireshark	01:01
DocScrutinizer05	resp use tshark or pcap to capture, and not hog CPU with full wireshark UI in realtime	01:02
fil	I'm using tshark, and looking at it with wireshark on my PC	01:02
vi___	DocScrutinizer05: ++	01:02
vi___	fil: 1 step ahead!	01:02
fil	yeah, didn't seem wise to clog everything up with X-over-ssh	01:03
fil	so was dumping to a file on /tmp, then scp-ing it over afterwards	01:04
fil	I'll try a few more tests (with tshark un-niced) to see if that makes any odds	01:06
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DocScrutinizer05	if it changes stuff to either the better or the worse, we're on something. If no effect at all, we probably can rule out CPU load as a culprit	01:08
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DocScrutinizer05	well, I just start to wonder if jumps in packet sequence might also be a result of clogging outbound WiFi, so eventually the RTP stream process detects there's a backlog on packets to send, at skips some packets to keep up with time pace	01:11
teotwaki	erhm, no way.	01:12
DocScrutinizer05	well, already good enough :-)	01:12
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	01:12
teotwaki	PCMU is 96Kbit/s tops, 64Kbit/s avg	01:13
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	01:13
DocScrutinizer05	how's this related though?	01:13
teotwaki	if that clogs your wifi, well, there's your VoIP quality problem.	01:13
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DocScrutinizer05	depending on WiFi situation, there might be low bandwidth, or collisions, or packet retransmissions, or whatever	01:14
teotwaki	and if his wifi really can't handle 96kbit/s	01:14
teotwaki	then why is he even trying voip calls?	01:14
teotwaki	:P	01:14
DocScrutinizer05	I don't think the RTP send process should or would fill up a send buffer with an unlimited number of packages pending to make their way thru WiFi	01:15
teotwaki	well, one packet every 20ms	01:16
teotwaki	os 500 packets per second	01:16
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DocScrutinizer05	yeah, but what if channel is occupied by some other burst transmission between AP and random client for 1.5s	01:16
DocScrutinizer05	RTP sender should drop packets in this case	01:17
DocScrutinizer05	since packet sequence # is entagled to timebase afaik	01:17
fil	right, with nice -5 we seem to get all packets, and there was one missing packet inbound, none outbound, but the playback quality is dire (this listening to the IVR menus, since it's past midnight here, and sleeping wife & child next door precludes making phones ring and muttering to myself )	01:20
DocScrutinizer05	so your audio quality issues are inbound or outbound?	01:26
FIQ	what's up with microB occasionally acting as if I run a desktop WM?	01:26
FIQ	@ its' dialogs	01:26
FIQ	i mean, sure, some stuff in extras/etc looks like it does on the desktop, but a preinstalled browser?	01:27
fil	generally people tell me that they can hear me OK -- the problem is on the inbound channel, which after (guessing) 30s (somethimes longer) starts breaking up, with the appearance of the sound being somewhat shuffled -- then after getting completely incomprehensible (and I'm getting quite good at understanding the garbled stuff) it goes dead for a while, and then iether gives up completely, or recovers for a bit	01:30
fil	as for wifi bandwidth, I can ssh from phone to laptop at > 500MB/s, and that's with both devices on the wifi (so colliding), and probably limited by the speed of the flash the file's coming off of	01:33
fil	s/ssh/scp/	01:34
infobot	fil meant: as for wifi bandwidth, I can scp from phone to laptop at > 500MB/s, and that's with both devices on the wifi (so colliding), and probably limited by the speed of the flash the file's coming off of	01:34
DocScrutinizer05	the weird thing: I've seen exactly same behaviour with twinkle and 300MHz PC attached to internet via a WEP AP	01:35
DocScrutinizer05	initially fine, after 15..30s gets worse, even blocks, but then usually recovered	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	and stayed fine	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	inbound sound	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	so I tend to blame WiFi usually, when SIP audio fails in quality	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	if it doesn't work at all, it's usually firewall/NAT	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	you might test with USB networking to access internet	01:38
fil	yup, I can try that -- and I'll hard-wire the laptop while I'm at it	01:39
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DocScrutinizer05	also make sure your router/NAT has no ApplicationLevelGateway-SIP enabled	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	they are known to be utter crap most of them	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	Vigor for example didn't work at all with ALG-SIP enabled	01:42
DocScrutinizer05	generally speaking, a NAT can introduce quite some jitter weirdness, depending on grunt of embedded MCU used in that NAT device	01:43
DocScrutinizer05	if there's even a firewall enabled on same NAT, possibly with packet inspection, you might face problems regarding performance	01:45
* RST38h moos evilly		01:45
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: you must do nightshift	01:45
DocScrutinizer05	isn't it like 2 o clock in moscow?	01:46
RST38h	I am in the US	01:47
DocScrutinizer05	aaah that's why	01:47
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RST38h	Land of McDonaldses, etc	01:47
GeneralAntilles	Aren't there McDonalds everywhere these days?	01:49
RST38h	Yeah, but everywhere else has OTHER STUFF too	01:50
GeneralAntilles	Uh	01:53
GeneralAntilles	OK	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	well, seems to me there's no other place with more 'other stuff' dealing with burgers, than USA	01:53
* RST38h did not really mean burgers		01:53
* RST38h never tasted a burger.Scary.		01:53
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DocScrutinizer05	well McDonals==burger	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	so 'other stuff' also == burger, no?	01:54
RST38h	They also have apple pies, which are relatively safe to eat because they come there packaged.	01:54
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GeneralAntilles	You've never had a burger? . . .	01:55
RST38h	GA: Yeah I know.	01:55
GeneralAntilles	That's slightly surreal to think about.	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	I kinda can understand that	01:55
RST38h	GA: Well, to be fair I did taste all the individual components :)	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	though I'd have a hard time thinking of somebody I'd know, execept vegetarians	01:55
Drathir	lol i run qmpdclient from server throught ssh...	01:57
DocScrutinizer05	anyway here we got McDo and BurgerKing, and that's it basically re burgers. There's also an occasional KFC	01:58
Drathir	resolution looks great...	01:58
DocScrutinizer05	in USA you got ~20 such frenchise burger firers	01:58
DocScrutinizer05	fryers*	01:58
GeneralAntilles	Not really	01:58
GeneralAntilles	I mean	01:58
GeneralAntilles	There are some regional ones	01:58
GeneralAntilles	But for national chains it's basically Burger King and McDonalds	01:59
Drathir	DocScrutinizer05: royal dinner?	01:59
RST38h	GA: Do not forget Wendy's and KFC	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, so that changed since mid 80s then	01:59
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DocScrutinizer05	wendy's yeah	01:59
Drathir	kfc > mcdonalds	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	we even had a wendy's burger here for maybe 1 year, in the late eighties	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Ah, yeah, Wendy's.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Forgot about them	02:00
GeneralAntilles	KFC isn't burger.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	I haven't had fast food in a while.	02:01
RST38h	KFC does burgers all right	02:01
DocScrutinizer05	OMG I'm trying to get such a friggin burger since 48+ hours now	02:01
* RST38h had to google though, never been to KFC		02:01
GeneralAntilles	Uh	02:01
GeneralAntilles	No they don't.	02:01
GeneralAntilles	They do fried chicken	02:01
GeneralAntilles	and there's a barbecue sandwich thing	02:01
DocScrutinizer05	I'll probably end like that korean guy	02:01
Drathir	twister rulez...	02:01
GeneralAntilles	No burgers.	02:01
Drathir	not cheap but tasty....	02:01
RST38h	Ah! Chicken burger!	02:02
RST38h	Just looks similarly	02:02
GeneralAntilles	I remember when I could eat Chick-fil-A.	02:02
GeneralAntilles	Those were the days.	02:02
* DocScrutinizer05 glares at that frozen 300g steak		02:03
* DocScrutinizer05 notices some icecrean next to it		02:04
RST38h	Doc: Grind, mix with paper, add glutamate and artificial coloring, etc	02:04
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Drathir	xclock also works throught ssh...	02:05
RST38h	why shouldn't it?	02:05
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Drathir	DocScrutinizer05: i never eat thats big high steak which only see3in films...	02:06
* DocScrutinizer05 eats icecream, hopes for enough energy from it to head out and have a walk to next BurgerKing		02:07
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Drathir	RST38h: i dont think thal nice lokks with ssh -X ...	02:07
Drathir	DocScrutinizer05: bet things with someone take 1l of icecreams switch on the tv and watching good film...	02:09
Drathir	best*	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	only if you're not hungry	02:10
SpeedEvil	I cook burgers from frozen all the time.	02:11
SpeedEvil	works well, and gives time for the onions to brown	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	burgers yes, 300g argentinian steak hardly	02:13
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DocScrutinizer05	bought this for BBQ, couldn't think of any sane way to prepare it indoors, with the tools available here	02:14
GeneralAntilles	Frozen burgers work really well.	02:15
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GeneralAntilles	I was advised that frozen fish fillets wrapped in aluminum foil cook to perfection in a George Foreman grill.	02:15
GeneralAntilles	I need to investigate this.	02:15
DocScrutinizer05	I should investigate preparing steak in the microwave	02:16
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DocScrutinizer05	could use my lighter to "BBQ" it when done with cooking	02:16
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	02:17
GeneralAntilles	I'm going to build a sous vide one of these days.	02:17
Drathir	GeneralAntilles: fresh fish put into allu foil with onion and other spices on grill with not much fire...	02:18
GeneralAntilles	Grill doesn't fit on my countertop and fresh fish doesn't last for months in the freezer. :P	02:19
Drathir	fresh - best fishing and catched by you...	02:19
Drathir	that make was really aromatic and soft...	02:20
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, don't have time to catch fresh fish.	02:21
Drathir	but always the best is potato from fire place...	02:21
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer05: chop it up, which is easy part frozen, and stir fry	02:21
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Drathir	a lot of fan making them... and also little dirty works looks on hands but worth that...	02:22
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RST38h	Doc: Better construct a way to create plasma in themicrowave and prepare steak in plasma!	02:22
Drathir	SpeedEvil: is big difference betwen fresh prepared by you and from shop, sad but true...	02:23
SpeedEvil	yeah. mines better.	02:23
Drathir	im little hungry now...	02:26
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fil	ok, so how does one persuade the n900 that it's on the network (which it is) enough so that the dialer believes it and lets one dial via SIP	02:41
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fil	ah, sussed the dummy stuff	02:49
fil	how depressing -- seems much better over USB, which makes it look like the whole problem is wifi. Meanwhile, wifi is th only way that the VoIP would be properly useful :-/	02:54
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DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: good plan	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: found a can of fish in tomato though, I guess it will taste even without bread	02:55
RST38h	Doc: Do check that it is not cat food	02:57
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internetishard	vi__: I heard you were doing something similar to my question earlier (which was) "Anyone in the community offering pre-customized images of maemo? Could be a good way to get back to a certain clean configuration."	03:03
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DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: ooh, you think there's a difference?	04:34
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Drathir	RST38h: you see how sometimes cat food can nice looks?	05:07
RST38h	Doc: Honestly, I do not know	05:11
RST38h	Some of the cat stuff does smell suspiciously delicious	05:12
Drathir	yes confirm...	05:20
Drathir	sometimes pets dont want eat thats specific food...	05:21
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freemangordon	Pali: congrats, bq.. and rx51_battery are haeding for 3.8 :)	09:31
Pali	hi	09:32
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Pali	now I'm back from Kraków and reading mails...	09:32
freemangordon	http://git.infradead.org/battery-2.6.git	09:32
Pali	I see :-) (I got mails)	09:33
freemangordon	:)	09:33
freemangordon	Pali: BTW who maintains that page? http://elinux.org/N900	09:33
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Pali	Some edits are my and some by Sre	09:34
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Pali	(Sebastian Reichel)	09:34
freemangordon	aah, ok. As I was wondering how is that possibel the page is updated even before the commits on the battery tree :D	09:34
freemangordon	BTW there IS SGX driver for 3.6	09:35
freemangordon	well, fremantle one forward-ported	09:36
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Pali	both bq2415x and rx51_battery needs board data	09:38
freemangordon	Pali: yeah	09:38
Pali	I will write small patches for this	09:38
freemangordon	Pali: BTW did you follow alarmUI and tklock and EDS conversations?	09:39
Pali	I was not read anything after 16.11	09:39
freemangordon	ok. In short (if you are curious):	09:39
Pali	I was in Krakow on CERC ACM ICPC	09:40
freemangordon	there were 3 memory leaks in alarmUI. so far :)	09:40
freemangordon	tklock leaks like mad on every swipe to unlock	09:40
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Pali	ahh....	09:42
freemangordon	every libedataserver.so client process uses a huuuge amount of heap (>2MB)	09:42
freemangordon	funny, ain't :D	09:42
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freemangordon	fortunately the last one is open source, and I hope luf knows WTF is going on	09:44
freemangordon	(though he is mia right now :I )	09:44
freemangordon	Pali: "CERC ACM ICPC" ?	09:45
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freemangordon	Pali: BTW bqxxx battery driver is missing board data too	09:47
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freemangordon	hmm, scratch that	09:48
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Pali	Central Europe Regional Contest ACM - competition in programming (for students)	09:55
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freemangordon	wow	09:56
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freemangordon	hehe http://git.infradead.org/battery-2.6.git/commit/6c47a3e00c6e4f3cdac7566c1480de34d9e32e07	09:58
freemangordon	seems we are lucky having upstream maintainer owning n900 :D	09:58
freemangordon	Pali: please, submit my thumb2 patches :P	09:59
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Pali	freemangordon, try to send thumb2 patches yourself - you are author :-)	10:09
freemangordon	Pali: I know I am the author, I just can't put myself together to do that. And as you are riding the upstreaming wave...	10:10
freemangordon	Pali: it is not laziness, see ^^^ . Too much other useful stuff I can do	10:11
freemangordon	^^^ is for the memory leaks and such	10:11
freemangordon	I'll waste too much time to figure out the correct channels, mails, procedure, tools, etc	10:12
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freemangordon	and you have all this already set up	10:13
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kerio	Pali: will you be able to add stuff to the bq* drivers and have them merged upstream?	10:29
kerio	having single-file flags would be neat :3	10:29
freemangordon	kerio: what?	10:29
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freemangordon	bq drivers are in queue for 3.8	10:29
kerio	freemangordon: /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/flags/VDQ for instance	10:29
freemangordon	read the backscroll	10:29
kerio	freemangordon: i am reading the backscroll	10:30
kerio	that's why i said add	10:30
freemangordon	ok	10:30
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vi_	yo.	12:13
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MrPingu	Vi_: Howdy!	12:17
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vi_	MrPingu: Hey man.	12:23
vi_	MrPingu: What do you know about making ovi maps work?	12:23
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vi_	let me tell you the puzzle.	12:24
vi_	I have 1 n900 that I am using to create the ultimate reflash image.	12:24
vi_	That is ALL the shite stripped out and some very basic essentials loaded in.	12:25
MrPingu	Seeems nice ;)	12:25
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MrPingu	I don't know anything about ovi maps, sorry	12:25
vi_	I have almost finished.	12:25
vi_	So I have attempted to clone the stripped n900 to another n900.	12:26
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MrPingu	But? Ovi maps doesn't work?	12:26
vi_	And to all purposes it looks like it has worked. One device is the absolute clone of the other.	12:26
vi_	ovi maps does work on the device, however when I connect to nokia suite it says the clone device does not have maps installed!	12:27
vi_	I just do not get it.	12:27
vi_	How can that happen?	12:27
MrPingu	For one thing I know, ovi maps is NOT optified sits totally in rootfs so	12:27
vi_	One device is IDENTICAL to the other.	12:27
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MrPingu	Tried reinstall the maps package?	12:28
vi_	Not yet.	12:28
vi_	I am not sure which packages I need to purge&binge.	12:28
MrPingu	Let me see :P	12:28
vi_	MrPingu: how Do you make conversations rotate?	12:29
vi_	MrPingu: I found your account on symbianfreak.	12:29
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vi_	I know I knew your name from somewhere!	12:29
vi_	The legendary pingu.	12:30
MrPingu	Adding it to the whitelist in transitions ini, ditch the whole blacklist concept	12:30
MrPingu	vi_: should I know you too? Or were you a silent freak? :P	12:31
vi_	I came too late.	12:31
vi_	The whole forum was winding down before I got started.	12:31
vi_	Also I did not like the some of the culture of the place.	12:31
MrPingu	All moved to dailymobile	12:32
MrPingu	It's a bit personal there ;)	12:32
MrPingu	Most of the people I have on FB too	12:32
MrPingu	anyway	12:32
vi_	The only thing I contributed was modifying a user agent-switcher program that someone wrote to be 'iphone' instead n97.	12:32
MrPingu	whitelist = rtcom-messaging-ui	12:32
MrPingu	voila, conversations rotate. Need to have a modified css file though	12:33
vi_	MrPingu: Do I have to modify my conversation theme?	12:33
vi_	There we go!	12:33
MrPingu	vi_: yes	12:33
MrPingu	Let me find the default theme + fixed portrait	12:34
MrPingu	vi_: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=995119	12:35
MrPingu	use the display-outside, it looks like default + portrait	12:36
vi_	but I like the small compact themes.	12:36
vi_	No avatar.	12:36
vi_	small text.	12:36
vi_	no wasted space.	12:37
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MrPingu	http://wiki.maemo.org/Conversation_Mods	12:37
MrPingu	Hope there's a good mod for you that has portrait support	12:38
MrPingu	vi_: what do you know bout left over files after purging testserver?	12:38
vi_	MrPingu: There is some files left in event.d	12:39
vi_	1 file.	12:39
vi_	and 1 in /etc/init.d	12:39
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vi_	You are building the crap cleaner script.	12:40
vi_	You are doing god's work son.	12:40
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MrPingu	vi_: but's fucking dangerous I mean the N900 is my only device :P So I am looking forward to your updated rootfs :P	12:41
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vi_	MrPingu: heh.	12:47
vi_	MrPingu: It is not so easy.	12:47
MrPingu	:(	12:47
vi_	fiasco-gen layout file for emmc is completely undocumented so I am unable to generate an emmc image.	12:48
vi_	Which is a complete ballbreaker.	12:48
vi_	However there is hope.	12:48
vi_	There is ~40m-50b free in the root partition.	12:48
vi_	All I have to do is hijack the 'first boot&optify' script that gets run at first boot after a reflash.	12:49
vi_	That way I can sneak in a bunch of stuff to the rootfs and have it copied to the mmc at boot time.	12:49
MrPingu	Regarding that optify-runonce, can it be purged after first boot?	12:50
vi_	MrPingu: I guess so.	12:50
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vi_	However if I were you I would be a little more cautious.	12:51
vi_	You do not want to hose your n900!	12:51
MrPingu	I don't purge anything, I am only adding it to my scrap-paper for investigation	12:52
vi_	where is optify-runonce kept again?	12:52
MrPingu	/usr/sbin/	12:53
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MrPingu	I guess it can't be purged, at the first glance it seems looking at the files it auto-optify not only after first boot	12:56
vi_	I do not seem to have an optify-runonce in /sbin.	12:57
vi_	W	12:57
vi_	T	12:57
vi_	F	12:57
MrPingu	its a bunch of scripts: /usr/sbin/maemo-optify-*	12:58
vi_	MrPingu: and I do not have them.	12:58
vi_	mmm	12:58
vi_	I must start from a fresh flash!	12:59
MrPingu	Didn't you purge it already?	13:00
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vi_	I am looking on my 'normal' n900.	13:00
vi_	It desperatley needs a reflash.	13:00
vi_	I cannot remember what I have hacked/bodged in the last year.	13:00
vi_	That is the stimulus for creating a replacement flashable root image.	13:01
vi_	The question is, what crap can I add to this replacement fiasco image?	13:02
vi_	obviously strip out most of the stuff as mentioned in your script.	13:02
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MrPingu	Good xbindkeys, proper keymap	13:02
vi_	but would it be desirable to add flash10 and 720p HD codecs for example?	13:02
MrPingu	For me, defenitely	13:03
vi_	Busybox power?	13:03
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MrPingu	bb-power, flash10, 720p, shipped with kp50 or even newer	13:03
vi_	that is easy enough, what else?	13:03
MrPingu	Let me think	13:03
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vi_	A script to wipe the emmc.	13:04
ShadowJK	the uber-usd arrived	13:04
MrPingu	You're russian roulette script, one of the six boots fail?	13:04
vi_	So it is like flashing emmc but without adding 200MB of videos+mp3 junk.	13:04
* ShadowJK wont have time to properly benchmark before work :(		13:04
vi_	ShadowJK: How big?	13:04
ShadowJK	16gig	13:04
vi_	...do not say ~5mm	13:05
vi_	16GB?	13:05
vi_	THat is not so big by todays standards!	13:05
ShadowJK	but uber because it promised 150 write iops (compared to 2-4 of other cards)	13:05
vi_	ShadowJK: Super fast write speeds?	13:05
ShadowJK	super fast random read/write	13:06
vi_	ShadowJK: Who advertises such features on their cards?	13:06
vi_	ShadowJK: LINK PLOX.	13:06
ShadowJK	well, 45M sequential read and 40M sequential write too, but I don't give a shit about sequential	13:06
vi_	ShadowJK: HOLY SHIT.	13:06
MrPingu	shortcutd? Getting too personal?	13:06
vi_	MrPingu: yes, I think so.	13:07
MrPingu	Oh vi_ remember your xbindkeys depends on some lib	13:07
ShadowJK	http://www.adata-group.com/index.php?action=product_feature&cid=7&piid=178	13:07
vi_	MrPingu: Although I cannot live without it, I would not force it on another person.	13:07
ShadowJK	http://www.adata-group.com/upload/ProductFeature/productImage3281.jpg	13:07
MrPingu	I have got a real nice keymap, derived from you	13:08
ShadowJK	ive yet to test whether uhs-i cards work with sdhc deviced at all tho lol	13:08
vi_	random write speeds are significantly improved by 99%	13:08
MrPingu	but "more" default	13:08
vi_	^holy shit.	13:08
vi_	So random write speed increased by 100% will make it ~8kB/S write?	13:09
vi_	MrPingu: How do you mean?	13:09
ShadowJK	if it holds what it promises, random write should come in at about 400-600 kbyte/s	13:10
vi_	ShadowJK: wow, you even get a free 60-day trial of norton internet security!	13:10
vi_	ShadowJK: That is insane.	13:10
vi_	finally usd card makers are getting their shit together.	13:11
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vi_	ShadowJK: so uh...how much monies and do they come in 32GB?	13:12
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MrPingu	Vi_: € still there, ? still on fn + .	13:13
MrPingu	plus added `´ on fourth level F + G	13:13
vi_	Are those danish characters?	13:14
MrPingu	no, french + dutch	13:14
vi_	ShadowJK: I am EXTREMELY interested in your results.	13:14
vi_	ShadowJK: when will you have done your testing?	13:14
ShadowJK	Yeah they come in 32G, about 80E for that, iirc	13:15
MrPingu	vi_: and fourth level . = ¨	13:15
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MrPingu	used in german	13:15
ShadowJK	vi_, I started random write test now, so first glimpse in 5 minutes	13:15
* ShadowJK goes change clothes before work in the meanwhile		13:15
MrPingu	All the characters are mentioned are dead	13:16
ShadowJK	51 ops/sec, 4K random write	13:16
MrPingu	s/are/I	13:16
ShadowJK	(12-25X improvement over fastest cards I've benched so far)	13:16
vi_	ShadowJK: forget work, you have more important issues to settle!	13:16
vi_	from an oinline review:	13:16
vi_	Not as advertised. Not fast. Just a normal class 4 product. after many many many benchmarks the highest write speed was 4.3MBs the slowest 3.77MBs. Sucks.	13:17
vi_	MrPingu: My irc client does not display utf8 characters properly so I cannot see what you are typing.	13:17
vi_	Aah. That is too specific.	13:18
vi_	English only!	13:18
vi_	But there again, the RX-51 file DOES contain a DE specific layout.	13:18
vi_	Perhaps it should be modified.	13:19
MrPingu	vi_: true, but the english keyboard = dutch keyboard	13:19
MrPingu	and these sign are used in dutch too, not often but they are	13:20
ShadowJK	16k: 24 (.38M/s), 32k: 24 (.78M/s), 64k: 11 (.75M/s), 128k: 6(.81M/s)	13:20
kolp	MrPingu: š is not used in German :)	13:20
freemangordon__	ShadowJK: I'll wait for sandisk to answer ;)	13:21
MrPingu	kolp: but ¨ + letter so ë ü ö	13:21
freemangordon__	adata is crap	13:21
vi_	ShadowJK: But can an n900 make use of the uhs-i features?	13:21
freemangordon__	vi_: what features exactly? proprietary fs?	13:22
vi_	freemangordon__: The 'magic' what makes it go fast.	13:22
vi_	I dunno.	13:22
freemangordon__	vi_: the "magic" is in the card itself AFAIK	13:23
vi_	The litrature suggests it has some kind of 'backwards' compatability.	13:23
vi_	That implies you need special moder hardware to make it work fully.	13:23
freemangordon__	and i really doubt a card can saturate host controller io on n900 anytime soon	13:23
ShadowJK	iirc UHS-I specifies new bus mode	13:24
vi_	I know nothing about uhs-i cards. I only just doscovered them about 20 minutes ago.	13:24
freemangordon__	ShadowJK: sure. But anyway we don;t really care about sequental access	13:24
ShadowJK	yes	13:24
ShadowJK	"UHS-I cards, specified in SD Version 3.01, support a clock frequency of 100 MHz (a quadrupling of the original "Default Speed"), which in four-bit transfer mode could transfer 50 MB/s."	13:25
vi_	Isn't there something about the n900 usd slot running at only half speed?	13:26
freemangordon__	hmm, I think host controller on n900 is clocked at 80Mhz	13:26
vi_	Because nokia were to pussy to crank it to the max?	13:26
freemangordon__	but might be wrong, need to check in the sources	13:26
vi_	Or am I thinking of something else?	13:26
freemangordon__	vi_: iirc this was on n8x0 iirc	13:26
vi_	freemangordon__: oh well.	13:27
ShadowJK	You're thinking of N800/N810 maybe, the TI controller isn't specced to run at max	13:27
* ShadowJK was actually thinking about putting this card in his N800		13:27
freemangordon__	iirc it runs full speed on n900	13:27
vi_	ok	13:27
freemangordon__	but whether it was 50MHz or 80MHz i just can't remember	13:27
freemangordon__	but even @50MHz, the max theoretical throughput is 20 MB/s	13:28
freemangordon__	which I am pretty ok with :D	13:28
ShadowJK	testing sequential write now	13:29
freemangordon__	ShadowJK: do you test it in n900?	13:30
ShadowJK	the card itself advertises a preferred erase size of 4 Megs	13:30
ShadowJK	No I'm testing it in sheevaplug	13:30
freemangordon__	aah,ok	13:30
freemangordon__	it will be ineresting to check how it will behave in n900	13:30
vi_	freemangordon__: did you ever finish your defragging ramzswap?	13:30
* ShadowJK wonders if the binary compiled on sheevaplug would work on N900		13:30
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freemangordon__	ShadowJK: connected via USB should be ok afaik	13:31
freemangordon__	vi_: I am fighting memory leaks, no matter how good your swap algo is, it will became ineffective at some point if your system leaks memory like a botomless basket	13:32
ShadowJK	at 64k block size sequential write, I'm already getting 11.7 Mbyte/s	13:32
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ShadowJK	freemangordon, not if you have 2G swap :)))	13:32
freemangordon__	hehe	13:32
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freemangordon__	and 4G of RAM :P	13:32
ShadowJK	I'm actually at 256M swap used on my N800 now	13:33
ShadowJK	a little bit sluggish, since it doesn't have nokia swap algo	13:33
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ShadowJK	which is why I think I'll put card in that	13:33
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ShadowJK	ah, have to run	13:33
ShadowJK	will log into sheevaplug from work later nad check sequential write speeds	13:34
freemangordon__	vi_: Most probably I will finish that someday. But have in mind my queue - mem leaks, kernel in cssu, 720p stuff, etc.	13:34
freemangordon__	vi_: or better said - I will winish it, but it will take time	13:35
freemangordon__	*finish	13:35
vi_	freemangordon__: you will finnish it.	13:35
vi_	Like nokia.	13:35
vi_	is finnish.	13:35
vi_	aaah.	13:35
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freemangordon__	hehe	13:36
vi_	If I rolled a 'community' firmware that contained 720p codecs and flash10, whould I be allowed to talk about it on tmo or would that count as advertising warez?	13:36
MrPingu	back, had to run to get my train xD	13:36
vi_	chem\|st: If I rolled a 'community' firmware that contained 720p codecs and flash10, whould I be allowed to talk about it on tmo or would that count as advertising warez?	13:37
SpeedEvil	vi_: I suspect nobody on earth would care	13:37
freemangordon__	vi_: I don;t see a reason why not talk about it	13:37
SpeedEvil	vi_: I mean other than those wanting to install	13:37
vi_	So linkinking to distributing nokia binarys is not considered bad?	13:37
MrPingu	Refer to qgil, statement	13:37
MrPingu	We were allowd to distribute anything if it would aid the communiy, right?	13:38
vi_	MrPingu: like sygic mobile maps?	13:38
SpeedEvil	flash isn't part of that, I suspect	13:38
SpeedEvil	vi_: angry birds!	13:38
MrPingu	vi_: sygic is not nokia, so that would be applicable to qgil statement	13:39
MrPingu	would NOT	13:39
qwazix__	I suppose qgil statement applies to binaries (nokia/non nokia) already freely distributed by nokia	13:40
vi_	MrPingu: cssu-s+flash 10+720p codecs+some vm tweaks (done the right way, not swappolube)+power kernel+fapman+rootsh-all preinstalled crap.	13:40
qwazix__	And I'm not sure it continues to apply if nokia stops distributing them	13:40
MrPingu	vi_: fapman you sure?	13:41
vi_	yeah, too personal.	13:41
vi_	also +script to wipe mmc just like emmc flash.	13:42
MrPingu	vi_: That script must explicitly be called by user	13:43
tadzik	what's bad about swappolube?	13:43
vi_	MrPingu: Then you would have /opt full of junk!	13:43
MrPingu	I don't want to my EMMC be wiped when I flash combined ;&	13:43
vi_	MrPingu: It can leave myDocs	13:43
Hurrian	tadzik: the defaults iirc are outdated	13:44
MrPingu	Vi_: that seems good	13:44
MrPingu	Vi_: Add Docs root on password with some default passwd, that can be altered later	13:45
MrPingu	g2g,	13:45
vi_	bb	13:45
SpeedEvil	VM tweaks for contiguous swap writing would be awesome.	13:46
vi_	SpeedEvil: I mean simple stuff like dirty backround, etc & nr_requests.	13:47
chem\|st	vi_: you are not allowed to distribute nokia binaries afaik so "yes that is warez"	13:47
vi_	chem\|st: Thankyou for the clarification.	13:47
freemangordon__	SpeedEvil: nokia algo works pretty well, I suspect memory leaks are the reason for such a bad swap fragmentation	13:47
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freemangordon__	chem\|st: those are not Nokia's :P	13:48
freemangordon__	vi_: preinstalling fapman does not sound like a good idea to me	13:50
vi_	freemangordon__: Yeah.	13:50
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vi_	freemangordon__: Ah, it is just an idea.	13:51
MrPingu	Luck, next train had wifi too :)	13:51
vi_	MrPingu: heh.	13:51
freemangordon__	MrPingu: you have wifi in trains?	13:51
vi_	freemangordon__: Not being able to put it on TMO would somewhat undermine the point of it as well.	13:51
MrPingu	freemangordon__: Yes, most of them	13:52
ShadowJK	getting about 12M/s write seq	13:52
freemangordon__	vi_: well, I don;t think you can host it on TMO, if not for legal, then for size reasons	13:52
vi_	freemangordon__: Not host, talk.	13:52
freemangordon__	aah	13:52
vi_	But if the link is to something that is deemed questionable then it is a no go.	13:53
freemangordon__	ShadowJK: toldya, adata si crap	13:53
freemangordon__	*is	13:53
vi_	I do not want to taste the wrath of chem\|st mighty ban hammer!	13:53
freemangordon__	:D:D:D	13:53
ShadowJK	fastest card I've ever tested :)	13:53
ShadowJK	had another a-data card oncea. it died in a month	13:53
ShadowJK	so yeah I know adata	13:54
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I have a really old 1g kingsaton in mine that gets the same sequentiaomwrite	13:55
SpeedEvil	well, 11.5m IIRC	13:55
freemangordon__	ShadowJK: 12MB/s is just slightly over 10MB/s a cheap class 10 adata does. I own one of those, so I know what I am talking about.	13:55
freemangordon__	8 G class 10	13:55
vi_	class 10 is a massive bullshit.	13:55
vi_	It is just more bigger numbers==better.	13:55
freemangordon__	but it gives i/o timeout errors avary now and then	13:55
freemangordon__	*every	13:56
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freemangordon__	I wonder what is the random io of sandisk uhs 64G cards, I am thinking to buy one if it makes sense	13:57
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amospalla	anybody has a debian chroot, and chromium gives segmentation fault when started?	14:30
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DocScrutinizer05	vi_: talking about that stuff would not cause a ban, I'm sure	14:49
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: it's N900 related so the larger definition doesn't fit. Yet you shouldn't even ask ;-)	14:50
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: applying common sense is always a good rule	14:52
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DocScrutinizer05	common sense says there's nothing terribly fishy in talking about a fiasco.bin	14:52
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Pali	maybe I should release some beta version of new 0xFFFF :-)	14:54
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DocScrutinizer05	vi_: so you found some more info about fiasco-gen?	14:59
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Pali	DocScrutinizer05, I think I understand full fiasco format, I also updated fiasco documentation	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: that's fine, but we don't know how to operate fiasco-gen	15:00
Pali	0xFFFF has implemeted both unpacking & generating	15:01
DocScrutinizer05	OOOH	15:01
Pali	so 0xFFFF can be used instead fiasco-gen	15:01
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DocScrutinizer05	Pali: that's extremely nice news	15:02
DocScrutinizer05	GeneralAntilles: ^^^ how about MWKN? worth a note I think	15:04
Pali	I will release some beta version of new 0xFFFF	15:04
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: could you paste a good link to a tmo thread or whatever, which GeneralAntilles could use for MWKN?	15:05
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Pali	ok, when I drop tarball of new beta version, I will create new tmo thread	15:06
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	15:06
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Pali	DocScrutinizer05, is wiki and extras-devel working?	15:30
Pali	or still not?	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	just tested wiki, borked as usual, no edit	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	no idea about e-dev	15:31
Pali	any other news?	15:31
vi_	Pali: 0xFFFF can be used as a replacement for fiasco-gen?	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	nope	15:31
Pali	vi_, yes	15:32
vi_	Pali: No bullshit with layout files?	15:32
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: that's what he said :-)	15:32
vi_	where??	15:32
vi_	Do I get it from nopcode?	15:32
Pali	vi_, you need to create layou file still	15:32
vi_	Pali: But no one knows how to make the layout files.	15:32
Pali	old version on nopcode support some fiasco format	15:32
vi_	~pali	15:32
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/	15:32
Pali	new version will have full fiasco support	15:33
tadzik	hrm. Any idea what's /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive? It currently eats almost 23 megs on my rootfs	15:33
Pali	vi_ last time when I looked at that layout file it was plain text file	15:33
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: a mega abomination	15:33
Pali	somewhere on tmo MAG wrote info about layout	15:33
vi_	tadzik: It contains your locales.	15:33
Pali	try to find it	15:33
DocScrutinizer05	it's the closed source file of all Nokia translations/locales	15:33
vi_	tadzik: You can move it to /opt and symlink it back with no trouble.	15:34
vi_	Pali: I found it.	15:34
DocScrutinizer05	really?	15:34
vi_	It is not correct.	15:34
vi_	The layout example on TMO is as it appears in the .bin header.	15:34
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tadzik	not that I lack space, I just released ncdu on / and it takes 10% of it :)	15:35
vi_	It is not what is required to generate a flashable image.	15:35
DocScrutinizer05	I think moving /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive to /opt will render some binaries used during early boot extremely unhappy, no?	15:35
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vi_	DocScrutinizer05: Like what?	15:35
DocScrutinizer05	nfc	15:35
vi_	MMC is mounted well before any locale stuff is done.	15:36
DocScrutinizer05	the friggin player for shake-hands	15:36
vi_	The shake hands player occours after x has started.	15:36
vi_	^X11	15:36
vi_	locales 'n shit is before that.	15:36
vi_	Pali: I EAGERLY await your release of 0xFFFF	15:37
DocScrutinizer05	then why does PA break when you optify the codecs? due to that bootvideo shit	15:37
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: dunno.	15:37
vi_	tadzik: You must try this, for science.	15:37
tadzik	when my rootfs is 95% filled rather than 59%, I'll do that and see what happens :)	15:38
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: please verify your claim that nothing needs /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive during early boot, before /home mounted	15:39
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I will. This evening.	15:39
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	15:39
vi_	I will symlink it on my stunt n900.	15:39
vi_	...right after pali releases 0xFFFF 0.6b	15:40
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders why Nokia hasn't optified /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive if it's really not needed during early boot		15:41
DocScrutinizer05	friggin abomination, a 21MB file with locales you wouldn't even know how to spell them, and no way to shrink it to the locales you really need	15:42
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tadzik	well, nokia didn't optify much at all, did they	15:43
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MrPingu	Why didn't they optify maps either	15:45
DocScrutinizer05	uh?	15:45
DocScrutinizer05	maps?	15:45
MrPingu	Most of nokia maps is in rootfs	15:46
tadzik	yeah, or microb stuff	15:46
DocScrutinizer05	please give FQN of any maps related file that could use optification	15:46
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MrPingu	/usr/share/nokia-maps	15:47
tadzik	ncdu -x / is insightful :)	15:47
DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: right, that's terribly odd I'd say	15:49
MrPingu	tadzik: yes that run ncdu -x /usr/share/ , be prepared to find nokia maps listed as third	15:50
tadzik	yeah, something of this sort	15:50
MrPingu	Whole 7.3 MB wasted rootfs space	15:51
tadzik	. o O ( does anyone still use this? )	15:51
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BRB_COFFEE	Nokia maps is not that bad.	15:53
BRB_COFFEE	at least they still update the maps.	15:53
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MrPingu	but but, nothing bad happends when symlinked to opt	15:55
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tadzik	this few times I tried to use them ("tell me how to go from here to this bar") it worked quite fine, but the overall UX was horrible	15:55
tadzik	"wtf do I click now" every few seconds	15:55
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DocScrutinizer05	so let's start a hardcore optification effort? strace -ff -e trace=file (pre)init -o /optify-trace.log; and see which files are actually used until /home gets mounted	16:03
DocScrutinizer05	s/-ff/-f/.	16:04
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MrPingu	never had such a boring lecture	16:15
MrPingu	Normally I am not at IRC when I am ay university but this is extreme ;o	16:16
tadzik	what lecture is that?	16:16
MrPingu	Economics and infrastructures	16:16
tadzik	I remeber a Compilers lecture few weeks ago, monday, 8 AM. We watched Star Trek with a friend and he still got asleep.	16:17
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tadzik	I'm fascinated by the topic, frankly, but the lecturer is a genius in making people asleep	16:17
MrPingu	Next lecture will be javascript, that's getting my attention, my first programming language :P	16:18
MrPingu	Yes lecturers are good at that, even if the topic is interesting they still can make boring	16:19
vi_	MrPingu: Dont let those JS heretics get to you first.	16:19
tadzik	well, is there a single language that does not suck as a first language? ;)	16:19
vi_	C	16:19
tadzik	I thought that to be C, but there are still people who say it's bad	16:19
vi_	C is the only language	16:20
vi_	C is the mother lanuage	16:20
vi_	C...bad??	16:20
ShadowJK	I've only seen sandisk UHS in huge sizes like 64g :(	16:20
tadzik	well, not that I agree ;)	16:20
ShadowJK	the a-data was smaller so not too much money to spend on benchmarking/testing	16:20
vi_	ShadowJK: so sandisk do offer an alternative.	16:20
tadzik	I sometimes think that if someone can't understand C, they should probably stay out of programming anyway	16:20
MrPingu	vi_: I can't help if I do, JS is forced on me	16:20
tadzik	vi_: think MIT and their Scheme	16:21
ShadowJK	Well we don't know if sandisk uhs has any better random write than their other cards :)	16:21
vi_	MrPingu: May you pass through the shadow of the valley of JS and fear no inhetitance.	16:21
vi_	^fuck y spelling.	16:21
tadzik	although their choice doesn't neceserilly mean "C is bad for teaching"	16:22
MrPingu	Don't worry, I probably only get 1 period of programming. It's not the main aim of my study ;)	16:22
vi_	BRB, got to work for a living.	16:23
DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: the more sense it would make to use a real programming language instead of JS	16:26
DocScrutinizer05	unless your studies are for "Media designer" or whatver else there might be that creates "web programmers"	16:27
MrPingu	DocScrutinizer05: It's only used to crunch to some serials of numbers, and do some calculations	16:28
DocScrutinizer05	calculations in JS, sure ;-P	16:28
tadzik	yeah, that's what fortran's for, right? ;)	16:28
MrPingu	Well, don't ask me, I am not the teacher :P	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	honestly, if I were do pick a language for teaching a semester of programming course, I'd probably use a proper assembler (IBM, whatever) for that	16:30
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DocScrutinizer05	macro assembler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macro_assembler#Macros	16:42
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MrPingu	Back, stupid eduroam went down :P	16:43
devilinside	help!! i have esy debian on partition of 6gb but stl its sayin no space in /var/cache	16:44
devilinside	help plzz.	16:44
MrPingu	Yeah would have liked that too, maybe I will learn qt as hobby, only maybe	16:44
MrPingu	devilinside: mkdir /var/cache	16:45
MrPingu	IIRC, that folder is not present on some images	16:45
devilinside	but my easy deb is already on 6gb partition, copied by dd command ... it has enough free space	16:46
MrPingu	Are you sure that folder is created?	16:47
devilinside	its there.. i have already installed many apps but now its saying not wnough space in /var/cache	16:47
vi_	devilinside: WHAT is saying it?	16:47
devilinside	commended packages:commended packages:commended packages:commended packages:	16:49
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devilinside	etrying to install jdk in easy deb	16:49
MrPingu	I'm out, next lecture is started	16:50
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devilinside	its saying - need to get 39.2 mb of archives. not enuf space in /var/cache/*	16:50
DocScrutinizer05	who is saying that?	16:51
devilinside	easy-deb-chroot	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, can't reproduce, no such command on my device	16:52
DocScrutinizer05	I guess you're executing a command that wants to download and install stuff outside of chroot	16:53
devilinside	no thats not a command. i tried installing app in easy-deb. its xterm is saying it	16:53
devilinside	nope..	16:53
DocScrutinizer05	df -h /var/cache/	16:54
devilinside	its working fine expect for this space problem. i had shifted the image to partition by dd command..	16:54
devilinside	its saying 3.0gb used out 0f 3.0gb . 32 mb free..	16:55
devilinside	but its on a partition of 6gb, copied from image of 3gb!	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	echo test >/var/cache/delete-me	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	scratch that	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	you messed it up by dd	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	dd is NOT meant to get used for that	16:57
DocScrutinizer05	you created an image, including size and all, of original	16:57
devilinside	then?? what is the procedure?? it was given in tutorial to shift the img to partition.	16:58
r00t\|home	devilinside: resize2fs (if it's ext2)	16:58
devilinside	i didn create any image .. i used debian-wheezy-sulu.img.ext2 and used this command dd if=pathtoimg of=/dev/mmcblk1p2	16:59
r00t\|home	devilinside: the filesystem does not know/care it was moved to a larger device, unless you tell it to	16:59
DocScrutinizer05	sigh	16:59
devilinside	yes its ext2	17:00
r00t\|home	resize2fs /dev/mmcblk1p2	17:00
DocScrutinizer05	did he say he moved it to mmcblk1p2??	17:00
r00t\|home	<devilinside> i didn create any image .. i used debian-wheezy-sulu.img.ext2 and used this command dd if=pathtoimg of=/dev/mmcblk1p2	17:01
DocScrutinizer05	aah he did	17:01
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: and his device still works?	17:01
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, amazing	17:01
devilinside	yess!	17:01
vi_	~dd	17:01
infobot	[dd] `dd': Convert and copy a file `dd' copies a file (from standard input to standard output, by default) with a changeable I/O block size, while optionally performing conversions on it. 'info dd' for more info	17:01
vi_	~dd is GNU Disk Destroyer	17:02
infobot	...but dd is already something else...	17:02
DocScrutinizer05	vi_: don't dare!	17:02
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I would'nt. I can see it is allready defined.	17:02
vi_	~tm0	17:02
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, tm0 is trolls, mooses and orangutans	17:02
devilinside	btw wat to do wid resize2fs or something likethat... and where to use it?? easy debian or xterm??	17:04
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DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: ^^^ ;-P	17:05
DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: resize2fs is a nifty advice, but not exactly self explanatory	17:06
r00t\|home	why not?	17:06
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r00t\|home	the default action is to enlarge the filesystem to fill the device	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	tbh I wonder which genius created that tutorial and pkg, I'd probably prefer to extraxt a tarball	17:07
r00t\|home	some idiot who does not understand that chroot can be used on any directory, not just mountpoints	17:07
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	17:08
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DocScrutinizer05	devilinside: so, according to r00t\|home fine advice, you should type `resize2fs /dev/mmcblk1p2` in your hist environment's root shell	17:09
DocScrutinizer05	host*	17:09
DocScrutinizer05	you maybe need to umount /dev/mmcblk1p2 prior to that	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	or rather, 'stop' the chroot	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	by whatever means the easy-debian provides for that - - or simply reboot	17:11
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devilinside	didn work! its still 3gb.	17:14
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DocScrutinizer05	devilinside: you got a spare location with >3GB free storage?	17:19
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: resise2fs works on both not mounted and mounted	17:19
DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: thanks, wasn't sure	17:19
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: actually keeping it mounted has the advantage that it doesn't demand it being fscked first	17:20
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	17:20
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: in the mounted case, the resize is performed by the kernel driver, else by the userspace program	17:20
DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: could you talk devilinside thru that lil inconvenience?	17:20
r00t\|home	<devilinside> didn work! its still 3gb.	17:21
r00t\|home	what did you do, what was the output?	17:21
DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: I'm not sure our kernel on fremantle provides that function, so - according to your explanation - it might work better when umount'ed	17:22
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: the kernel would have to be damn old not to support it	17:23
devilinside	run e2fsck first	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	it is damn old ;-)	17:23
r00t\|home	devilinside: WELL, READ...	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	maybe not THAT old	17:23
devilinside	which gave a segmentation fault	17:23
r00t\|home	well, your filesystem is totally broken, congrats, use your backups	17:24
vi_	r00t\|home: lol	17:24
r00t\|home	also, file a bugreport	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	devilinside: you created that stuff on uSD, no?	17:24
devilinside	yup	17:24
r00t\|home	given that it's on the sd card, put it into a pc and run fsck there	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	insert uSD to your linux PC	17:24
devilinside	not near any pc now :(	17:25
devilinside	will get to you when done .. thnx a lot guys..	17:25
r00t\|home	devilinside: try fsck on the image file... does that also crash?	17:25
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DocScrutinizer05	then copy the whole chroot content to some folder on your linux-PC, mkfs-ext2 on that partition, and copy content back from PC to uSD	17:26
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, probably better use tar	17:27
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: better use tar... or make sure you use cp -a...	17:27
r00t\|home	heh	17:27
DocScrutinizer05	or simply try what r00t\|home suggested	17:27
r00t\|home	i've seen fsck crash before... but only on badly corrupted filesystems...	17:27
fil	BTW in subsequent tests I find that my SIP quality is almost as bad via usb net as via wifi (which I find oddly encouraging, as it means I can do packet traces on my laptop without risking changing things on the n900)	17:28
DocScrutinizer05	fil: indeed this finding has good as well as bad aspects	17:28
fil	so the one clean call I got after changing to usb net was a fluke	17:29
DocScrutinizer05	a) it proves that WiFi isn't the culprit and b) it enables proper tracing by full wireshark, on PC	17:30
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DocScrutinizer05	still the basic rationale aplies: if inbound RTP stream is clean, then the problem is on N900 side. Otherwise between PC and far and	17:31
DocScrutinizer05	and vice versa for outbound stream	17:32
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vi_	#define SPI0_SCR ((volatile word )0x0000F2A0)	17:34
vi_	#define SPI0_SCR ((volatile word )0x0000F2A0)	17:34
vi_	^what EXACTLy this means?	17:34
vi_	specifically the second part.	17:34
vi_	What are the asterisks for?	17:35
jaska	tries to read a word from memory addr 0xf2a0	17:35
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jaska	(volatile word *)0x0000F2A0 = a pointer to a volatile word at 0xf2a0	17:36
jaska	((volatile word )0x0000F2A0) dereference said pointer.	17:36
r00t\|home	vi_: (volatile word ) casts the integer a memory address, and the in front makes it a read from that address...	17:36
r00t\|home	welcome to the departmant of redundancy department	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	which, whatever it means, sounds pretty odd, for fiasco	17:37
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I am working on a gas sensor right now.	17:38
vi_	Not fiasco!	17:38
DocScrutinizer05	aaah	17:38
DocScrutinizer05	then it might make sense, for a weird way to do IO	17:38
vi_	DocScrutinizer05: I have been away from embedded c coding for some years. I am still trying to get back into it.	17:38
r00t\|home	memory mapped i/o	17:38
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DocScrutinizer05	ooh, it's a #define, so yes. Probably clean	17:39
vi_	so it is saying:	17:39
vi_	SPIO_SCR is the volatile_word found at 0x0000F2A0?	17:40
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DocScrutinizer05	SPI0	17:41
jaska	volatile tries to make it so that itll reread the contents of that memory location	17:41
jaska	instead of stuffing it into a register	17:41
vi_	I know what it means more or less, I am just trying to understand why it is written in this way.	17:41
r00t\|home	vi_: volatile forbids the compiler to optimize access, always reading and writing the actual memory when the variable is read/written...	17:41
r00t\|home	redundancy...	17:41
jaska	department!	17:41
vi_	r00t\|home: aaah, I see.	17:42
r00t\|home	vi_: there is no other way to write it...	17:42
DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: there is: inline assembler ;-)	17:42
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: damn you...	17:42
r00t\|home	vi_: there is no other way to write it IN C...	17:43
vi_	r00t\|home: ty	17:43
r00t\|home	vi_: jaska provided the same information, no?	17:43
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vi_	jaska: thank you.	17:46
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vi_	Is there a word for when a programmer is lazy and uses some variable as a temporary container . A variable that is actually defined for something else?	17:50
r00t\|home	in embedded that's not even necessarily bad style...	17:51
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vi_	ok.	17:52
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r00t\|home	well, still bad style, but might be justified as an optimization method	17:54
r00t\|home	declare the variable as a union for cleaner style ;)	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	yep, good advice	17:58
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vi_	ty	18:02
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r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: and i thought i was just being silly... ;)	18:06
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kerio	ShadowJK: so... how's this adata awesome card?	18:21
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kerio	vi_: it's a bunch of words actually	18:22
kerio	"programmer with a really awful compiler"	18:22
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vi_	fil: any further results with your SIP woes?	18:33
ShadowJK	kerio; well, it's not good, but first impression is best microsd I've tested.	18:36
kerio	what do you mean "not good"? :(	18:36
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ShadowJK	not as good as advertised	18:38
kerio	:( :( :(	18:38
ShadowJK	unfortunately i can't access results from other cards ive tested	18:40
ShadowJK	it's in a ooo spreadsheet at home :/	18:40
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kerio	hmm, aren't 150 4k IOPS just 600kB/s?	18:41
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jacekowski	yeah	18:43
jacekowski	that's why HDDs are so slow	18:43
jacekowski	ShadowJK: i bought very good SD card patriot EP pro	18:44
jacekowski	ShadowJK: half price of sandisk and it's faster	18:44
kerio	>good	18:44
kerio	>not sandisk	18:44
kerio	DOES NOT COMPUTE	18:44
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jacekowski	http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2011-sd-cards/CrystalDiskMark-3.0-x64,2712.html	18:46
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kerio	i don't get why the sequential write speed would matter	18:47
jacekowski	it does matter for cameras	18:47
kerio	(also we need uSDs for the n900)	18:48
jacekowski	it's first card that i've tried that is fast enough for my camera	18:48
jacekowski	i can shoot at full 6fps and buffer will not fill up	18:48
vi_	I have had 2 patriot uSD.	18:49
vi_	Both broke within 1 month.	18:50
jacekowski	i've had no problems with mine	18:50
vi_	jacekowski: well...make sure you keep backups.	18:50
jacekowski	and well, those cards get some heavy sequential use	18:50
kerio	jacekowski: we need it for the purpose of n900 swap, we need random read-writes	18:50
jacekowski	well no uSD card will live long as swap	18:50
kerio	why is that?	18:51
jacekowski	a lot of writes	18:51
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vi_	and that is why women are no good at swap.	18:53
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vi_	Too many rights.	18:53
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vi_	I will show myself out/	19:00
vi_	:Q	19:00
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Devilinside	okay!! SOLVED :) thank u !! :)	19:35
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kerio	dafuq	19:48
kerio	jacekowski: SDs are perfect block devices in theory	19:50
kerio	they remap bad sectors automatically	19:50
kerio	and stuff	19:50
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vi___	DocScrutinizer05: ping	20:02
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vi___	DocScrutinizer05: Confirming: 21MB /usr/lib/locales CAN be moved to /opt/usr/lib/locales and symlinked back.	20:06
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vi___	MrPingu: Confirming: 21MB /usr/lib/locales CAN be moved to /opt/usr/lib/locales and symlinked back.	20:07
MrPingu	vi___: Awesome :)	20:09
vi___	MrPingu: in fact it is a simple case of adding the path to the 'auto optification' paths list to be done on first boot for it to be rolled into a new firmware.	20:10
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MrPingu	vi__: Maps(usr/share/nokia-maps/) can be added to that list too	20:13
fil	vi___: no more info yet -- I've been fiddling with pulseaudio which was upset during an upgrade, in the hope that twinkle might work if I fixed unrelated sound issues -- seems not :-/	20:15
fil	should have time for another play shortly	20:15
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Devilinside	i had moved many things to /opt. !ike gcc , perl , python, many more except for microb-engine, the device seemed to work fine	20:17
Devilinside	moving microb-engine causes problems!	20:17
vi___	fil: good. I am interested in your results.	20:18
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fil	do you happen to know what one needs to do to make i.e. Speex 16k work with freeswitch -- setting that as my only codec results in calls no longer working, and I'm not sure which end is upset	20:20
fil	(there was a forum post that claimed that 16k helped them - I guess that the problem is a bit random, and changing packet sizes is enough to make a difference, but it might have been more than that)	20:21
MrPingu	Devilinside: python is already optified, no?	20:21
Devilinside	there was something re!ated to python in /usr/share.. i kicked that out too	20:22
Devilinside	yeah it is optified	20:22
Devilinside	sorry in /usr/lib/pymodules	20:24
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freemangordon	the fuck, ltrace traces nothing on the device :(	20:27
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Drathir	how abut jar support? any alternative to microemulator?	20:32
kerio	vi___: i never had any luck getting the autooptifier to work	20:34
kerio	vi___: i'm also getting "initctl: MOUNTS_OK event failed" in its log	20:35
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ShadowJK	heh, I've written to a Sandisk Cruzer 16GB over 20G daily for about two years now. Endurance seems like a non issue..	20:38
* ShadowJK wishes some major benchmark site benchmarked generally available cards, with useful tests, or atleast tests described what they do		20:42
ShadowJK	although, this looks vaguely useful: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2011-sd-cards/IOMeter-2008.08.18,2708.html	20:43
kerio	ShadowJK: will a uSD grow slower after you've wrote random data over it once?	20:44
ShadowJK	they're black boxes, you dont know	20:45
ShadowJK	http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2011-micro-sdhc-charts/Random-Write-4-KB-QD-1-MB-s,2750.html	20:48
ShadowJK	ooh	20:48
kerio	holy shit the first one is powerful	20:49
vi___	holy shit, 1.4MB/s@4k blocks!	20:51
jacekowski	vi___: my ssd can do that	20:51
freemangordon	vi___: which one?!?	20:51
kerio	freemangordon: a sandisk :D	20:52
vi___	freemangordon: sandisk uhs-i card	20:52
kerio	sandisk extreme pro UHS-I 16GB	20:52
kerio	SDSDQXP-016G	20:52
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freemangordon	hmm, lets see if there is at least 32G	20:53
freemangordon	unfortunately there isn't	20:53
vi___	they only come in 8,16	20:54
kerio	16 is enough, to be honest	20:55
vi___	It is good to see the regular sandisk 8gb class 4 up there with the best, shitting on those class 10 monsters.	20:55
kerio	i doubt my sandisk 32gb is good enough to do that :c	20:55
kerio	how would i test it	20:55
kerio	?	20:55
vi___	Goddamit, wtf cant nokia suite find 'maps' on this n900?	20:56
vi___	It is a goddamn identical CLONE of one that works.	20:56
vi___	WTF.	20:56
MrPingu	vi___: still fighting with that?	20:57
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vi___	MrPingu: Jesus christ it does not make any sense.	20:57
kerio	vi___: make full BM backups, make a diff of the tarballs	20:57
vi___	rootfs+kernel+mydocs+/opt is a clone.	20:57
vi___	kerio: I just took the backup off a working device.	20:58
MrPingu	kerio: He took another approach	20:58
vi___	The fucking fuck.	20:58
vi___	I just dont get it.	20:58
kerio	vi___: you said nokia maps wasn't installed?	20:58
kerio	clearly it's not a perfect clone then	20:59
vi___	Nokia maps IS installed.	20:59
vi___	just like it is installed on the originator.	20:59
MrPingu	vi__: You reinstalled the package now?	20:59
kerio	have you tried copying CAL too?	20:59
vi___	It is a motherfucking clone.	20:59
kerio	(note: don't do that)	20:59
vi___	kerio: That is a one way ticket to a dead n900.	20:59
vi___	I have even purged maps, reinstalled them	21:00
vi___	all nokia suite does is look for the 'cities' folder.	21:02
vi___	If it cannot find it, it says you have no maps or you need to run it once.	21:02
vi___	The cities folder is there.	21:02
vi___	If I rm it and rerun maps, it is recreated freshly.	21:02
kerio	\_o_/	21:02
kerio	i don't even know how pc suite works	21:03
kerio	what does it use to access files?	21:03
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vi___	kerio: pc_suite mode	21:03
kerio	vi___: yeah but how, exactly?	21:03
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vi___	I imagine networking over usb	21:04
MrPingu	pc-suite.... Wasn't maps only ovi-suite?	21:04
MrPingu	oh wait your other n900	21:05
MrPingu	Nevermind....	21:05
vi___	You are not getting it. It is a CLONE of a working n900.	21:05
kerio	vi___: clearly it's not	21:05
MrPingu	I won't be saying anything anymore, seems I start to talk crap :P	21:06
kolp	How to tell the n900 is in act_dead mode? Is it when the backlight is slightly lit?	21:11
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kerio	kolp: pushing the power key gives a different LED light than when it's off	21:13
kerio	and turning it on doesn't give you a vibration	21:13
kerio	instead, you get a reboot	21:13
kolp	Mkay, thanks	21:14
kerio	can someone pastebin their /var/log/-optify- ?	21:19
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vi___	kerio http://pastebin.com/iFU64ARB	21:25
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vi___	mm	21:35
vi___	it would seem they generate different config.cfg files inside the maps folder	21:35
vi___	which makes no sense.	21:36
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kolp	Anyone know what sapwood-server is?	21:38
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Devilinside	any idea about using gdebi with easy debian? need to use ubuntu facebook app but the dependency requires python2.7-ubuntu something something!	21:48
vi___	This makes no damn sense.	21:50
vi___	Every n900 I clone from this working n900 does not work.	21:50
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vi___	well fuck me.	21:56
vi___	If I manually load g_nokia, it works.	21:56
vi___	which leads me to ask:	21:57
vi___	THE FUCK.	21:57
r00t\|home	Devilinside: what's wrong with dpkg -i --force-depends ?	21:58
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r00t\|home	man, gdebi is a silly program... a dpkg frontend written in python... with it's own wikipedia page...	22:03
Devilinside	not working! i have python 2.7 in debian but its not opening!	22:04
Devilinside	trying once again!!	22:05
r00t\|home	well, what's the error you're getting...	22:06
r00t\|home	(it MIGHT help to start it from a terminal)	22:06
r00t\|home	debian repositories won't contain packages with "ubuntu" in their name, so i don't see how any automatic dependancy resolution is supposed to help you	22:06
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Devilinside	thats the problem. debian repo wont contain dubuntuin their name.	22:08
r00t\|home	you can just apt-get install python-2.7 and you'll have a python 2.7...	22:08
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vi___	but that would be cheating!	22:09
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Devilinside	doing dpkg and then apt-get -f	22:14
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vi___	is it possible to chroot into a copy of the maemo 5 filesystem and run dpkg within it.	22:17
vi___	In the fremantle sdk for example (armel).	22:17
r00t\|home	Devilinside: apt-get will just remove the package again	22:18
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r00t\|home	Devilinside: PACKAGE DEPENDENCIES DO NOT WORK OUTSIDE OF A DISTRIBUTION	22:19
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Devilinside	it worked! got some of the missing packages too..	22:21
Devilinside	but i cant find the facebook in lxde	22:22
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r00t\|home	lol	22:22
r00t\|home	you should check out microsoft's products, they have this "windows" thing, you will like it	22:23
vi___	now now, everyone has to start somswhere.	22:23
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fil	I just stumbled across a forum post stating that Nokis didn't implement clock-rates other than 8k on the n900 -- is that right? (would ceratinly explain why calls were failing to establish when I tried 16k)	23:04
fil	Nokia, even	23:05
kerio	fil: regarding what?	23:05
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fil	kerio: speex clock-rate=16000 vs. clock-rate=8000 -- is that what you're querying?	23:07
kerio	oh, for... huh	23:07
kerio	SIP phone calls?	23:08
fil	SIP, yes	23:09
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fil	(sorry, I've been wibbling on about sip since last night)	23:10
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Drathir	wow smplayer vo fbdev source 720p slowly but works...	23:42
Drathir	without sound	23:42
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Drathir	screen quality is awesome...	23:42
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Drathir	ittle powerfull n900... hrhr	23:43
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tadzik	well, the screen is a bit too small for 720p to make sense, no?	23:50
vi_	can somone explain this command to me:	23:50
vi_	mknod /dev/mtdblock0 b 31 0	23:50
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freemangordon	vi_: that creates a block device major 31 minor 0 in /dev	23:51
freemangordon	named mtdblock0 :P	23:51
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freemangordon	vi_: where did you get that from? /sbin/preinit?	23:52
MentalistTraceur	I was gonna say, if it looks familiar to me, with my limited experience, I'd have to guess that script as well.	23:53
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Drathir	tadzik: is no so bsd quality is amazing...	23:54
MentalistTraceur	But a quick grep indicates that the stock /sbin/preinit does not have that command exactly, at least.	23:54
Drathir	but in 720p works only fbdev and x11 strange is why xv show green screen...	23:54
freemangordon	Drathir: what kernel?	23:55
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freemangordon	tadzik: the point is you don;t have to reencode ;)	23:55
MentalistTraceur	(I presume we're talking about N900's /sbin/preinit)Though it does something that might effectively do that, since it does a bunch of command-substitution to craft the string used in the final mknod command.	23:56
vi_	freemangordon: No, I found it in an online guide to mounting a jffs2 file system.	23:56
vi_	I get as far as: dd if=./rootfs.jffs2 of=/dev/mtd0	23:56
freemangordon	vi_: hmm, modprobe mtdblock should do that for you	23:56
vi_	and I am told no space left on device.	23:57
freemangordon	vi_: you need nandsim	23:57
freemangordon	iirc	23:57
vi_	well the method on the maemo wiki is complete bullshit.	23:57
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freemangordon	vi_: you'd better ask pali, he was the one who helped me to mount the CAL partition while I was REing libcal	23:58
freemangordon	vi_: BTW where do you try to mount that, on your PC?	23:59
Drathir	1920x800 also x11 and fbdev better works than xv green show video wheen seek	23:59
Drathir	freemangordon: power	23:59

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