IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-11-10

internetishardis fennec/firefox anywhere in the repo?00:01
internetishardor I have to use ovi?00:01
DocScrutinizer05vi____: yes, it will00:02
vi____internetishard: fennac sucks major balls.00:02
vi____unless you use the thumb version.00:02
internetishardyeah, well opera keeps crashing and I'm not using the default browser00:02
vi____which is bareable.00:02
vi____what is wrong with the default.00:02
vi____what is wrong with the default?00:02
internetishardIt's just not smart00:03
internetishardhigh latency. I'll type in derp.ddd on wifi, and it won't know it isn't a valid domain for 5+ seconds00:03
vi____internetishard: you have adblock plus?00:04
internetishardmaybe, not sure00:04
internetishardfor fennec? I don't have fennec anymore since backing up apps and restoring doesn't grab it00:04
vi____adblock for default browser00:05
internetishardnot afaik00:05
vi____it is well known for slowing the browser down00:06
vi____hostsfile blocking seems to be faster00:07
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internetishardthat would make sense00:09
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vi____DocScrutinizer05: what is the extra 64mb unused space at the end of the emmc for?00:13
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Palifreemangordon, changes pushed00:17
freemangordonPali: ok. code does not work, but i'll fix it00:18
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DocScrutinizer05vi____: probably to handle spare blocks00:27
DocScrutinizer05IOW not every eMMC might have those extra 64MB00:27
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SpeedEvilemmc, not one band01:18
SpeedEvilone NAND01:19
SpeedEvilemmc is a pure block device that does not shrink with use.01:19
SpeedEvilbut in principle may have per-unit initial capacity variations I guess.01:19
ShadowJKthat would be my guess too01:23
* SpeedEvil grrs at new phone hw being available with 16g only.01:25
DocScrutinizer05and that's what I said, no?01:29
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: yes01:30
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: I was not quite awake01:30
DocScrutinizer05 np :-)01:30
DocScrutinizer05I'm not quite fir today either01:31
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: was looking at nexus 4, in absence of announcement elsewhere. though I expect to at least held off till then01:31
SpeedEvilhold off01:31
ShadowJKIt's funny, even though it's double price here due to google not figuring out how to put phone in an envelope and dropping it off at usps, the price is still competititve :/01:31
SpeedEvilI almost question if t,s not subsidised.01:32
SpeedEvilI don't know how much a discount you can get if you pay up front foe a couple of million phones.01:33
DocScrutinizer05quite a bit01:33
DocScrutinizer05I heard usual calculation is that every chip costs you 3 times the purchase price on sale of complete unit01:34
SpeedEvilGoogle does have a large pile of cash.01:35
DocScrutinizer05I guess that changes with number of units approaching the 7 digits01:35
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DocScrutinizer05so when selling 10 mio instead 10k units, you may expect sales price dropping to the half or a third01:36
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SpeedEvilclosing n 50 billion cash reserves01:39
ShadowJKIt's almost certainly subsidized, because it's not sold in places wehre "Google Play" doesn't work.01:39
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ShadowJKAnd by that I mean the non-apps content01:43
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SpeedEvilI'm not doing them well.01:46
SpeedEvilI have so fad not used up my£15 store credit01:46
SpeedEvilI think I've used about 5 of it.01:46
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer0501:48
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ShadowJKThe geolocation stuff really annoys me.01:50
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* infobot waves01:51
ShadowJKNot just that some stuff is available in only some places, but depending on where google thinks your IP is located, you get different "first page" results too01:51
ShadowJKAnd because of the enormous quantity of stuff, you might never ever find something when connecting from one IP, that you'd find immediately when connecting from another IP01:52
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DocScrutinizer05well, that's probably their business model to monetize from apps02:08
DocScrutinizer05your app may get on page1 in regions A, B, C but then you have to accept three times the % for google02:09
ShadowJKNah it's more that it tries to figure out what's relevant for a person of specific nationality02:10
ShadowJKIt'd be cool if it could actually correctly classify me. However, when I surf the web I randomly get ads in finnish, german, dutch, and japanese (!) :)02:11
DocScrutinizer05hmm, there's only one cure for that: register with google ;-P02:11
DocScrutinizer05enable cookies02:12
DocScrutinizer05get a gmail account02:13
ShadowJKIt doesn't work.02:15
ShadowJKYou're forced to register with google, and forced to get a google+ account, and forced to get gmail, when you switch on an android device.02:16
Skryand after that, it still shows pages in different language you actually want02:16
ShadowJKand google play (their app store) content varies depending on whether I connect through wifi or bluetooth->n900->interwebs02:17
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how stupid google can be02:17
ShadowJKI wonder02:17
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infobotit's a stupid bot only02:18
ShadowJKIf I get a US VPN, do I automatically get access to the music? :-)02:18
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SkryI just fought with blogger last night, I've set language to english from browser, google profile and all the other their services including bloggers own settings -> still in finnish02:18
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DocScrutinizer05clean cookie cache02:20
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: maybe you should do less dealextreme browsing02:21
DocScrutinizer05google might think you love those chinese pages02:21
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DocScrutinizer05or you write a blogpost about it. Google will nail the whole class b subnet of your carrier to your location then02:24
ShadowJKI was getting japanese groupon ads though, not chinese02:25
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ShadowJKIf google was using my youtube habbits, I'd imagine they'd feed me Korean ads due to the amount of starcraft I watch02:26
SkryI only watch Tykylevits and vegan black metal chef from tube, wonder what kind of ads that combination would produce..02:29
Palimaemo bugzilla is down too!02:34
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Skrydamn :\02:34
Paliharmattan sdk, meego wiki, maemo wiki, maemo bugzilla, what next?02:34 show: "Software error: Can't connect to the database."02:35
PaliDocScrutinizer05 ^^^^02:35
rZrPali, ubuntu sdk02:37
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HurrianSkry, it could be worse. Installed Chrome for Android, and Google search was using my local domain and not Google.com03:12
HurrianThere were /no/ settings for it.03:12
Skrywtg google03:12
HurrianEnded up having to connect to my VPS's VPN to get a US location to use Google.com03:13
HurrianWhy is every website doing this? It's ridiculous to set location preferences automatically.03:14
Skryuser has been deprecated03:14
HurrianFor example, I took a trip to Japan. Checked in on bookFace at a few places, and now I still get Japanese-language ads.03:15
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Skryyeah, insane.03:19
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r00t|n900you can always set a language preference on google, you can also disable the redirect by loading
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DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: ping05:24
DocScrutinizer05anybody running cssu ?05:24
SpeedEvilnot here05:25
DocScrutinizer05could anybody running cssu-t test the command `apt-get update; apt-get -s upgrade` for me? (if you're typing it, don't miss the -s !)05:27
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DocScrutinizer05nm. obsolete request07:06
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devilinsideis gng to die in dec fr sure?10:53
devilinsidei reaally need to know as eider i will b gettin a new phn or just update my n90010:54
kerio...why can't you do both?10:55
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kerioit's not like your n900 will disappear once goes down10:57
kerioand besides, we've got mirrors already :)10:57
devilinsidehmm cz i reaally dn want to waste rs1200 on another set of nokia batteries, rs1500 on mugen cover n total reflash ........10:57
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keriowhy "waste"?10:58
kerioagain, your n900 won't disappear if goes down10:58
devilinsidehey, 1 mor doubt, wats d life of a nokia n90010:58
keriodisappear or stop working, i mean10:58
kerionot being able to do shit if servers are down is an android thing10:58
devilinsidecz bro, m limited on resources fr a while.. if i ws to update or buy in march, i wud hv dne both easily... :)10:59
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devilinside@kiero.. yup it wnt disappear :) :) NEVER.. but widout ne community, it wnt b gng newhr again..11:00
kerio...i literally can't understand what you just wrote11:00
devilinsideit wont disappear .. but without any community it wont be going anywhere..11:01
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M4rtinKX-Fade: any news on autobuilder status ? :)15:16
M4rtinKseems to be still down for me15:17
M4rtinKaccepts package submissions but doesn't actually build any packages15:17
* rZr : current archive #backup and future , #MaemO #MeeGo #Harmattan !n950club #n90015:20
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vi___I did't choose the thumb life, the thumb life chose me.16:04
kerioPali: does your applet calculate the percentage by itself?16:08
Palikerio, yes and not16:08
Palikerio, if it can use rx51_battery and bq27x00_battery then yes16:08
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kerioPali: why can't it just use the data from bq27200? :(16:16
Paliwhich data?16:16
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PaliM4rtinK, autobuilder not working too?16:29
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M4rtinKPali: yep18:21
Palinot good18:21
Paliwhen stopped working?18:21
M4rtinKPali: looks like its stuck on a package, that is aptly named "cataclysm"18:22
M4rtinKtried this morning18:22
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M4rtinKbut I have seen reports from yesterday18:24
Paliseems like nokia going to turn off servers...18:24
Palimaemo wiki stopped working18:24
Paliautobuilder too18:24
Paliyesterday maemo bugzilla not worked18:25
M4rtinKIIRC meego wiki is dead18:25
M4rtinKMaemo wiki works18:25
Palibut you cannot edit maemo wiki18:25
M4rtinKeven though I've saved the source for my articles, just in case :)18:25
M4rtinKhmm, looks like I'cant log in18:27
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: if bq27200 has accurate values (CI=0) then the percentage of charge available is basically that as delivered by bq27200. No further calculations needed. Percentage always supposed to be percentage of currently available max charge. If CI=1 and this bq27200 has no good values for any of the integrated/derived values, you need to calculate percentage of available charge from cell voltage, best done by a LUT. To convert this19:16
DocScrutinizer05percentage to a mAh value, you might want to multiply design-capacity of the battery by the percentage of available charge as derived from cell voltage19:16
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DocScrutinizer05it's arguable if we want to use BSI for determining design-capacity in that case, or we rather use a hardcoded e.g 1400mAh19:19
* ShadowJK would rescale 6-100 to 0-10019:21
DocScrutinizer05with hardcoded value, user *knows* the mAh and thus TTE etc are based on incorrect values (sp when using 2nd source batteries like mugen), but user also knows the value used and easily can convert in his head to the e.g. double capacity of the battery he's actually using.19:21
DocScrutinizer05with BSI, the assumed design capacity and thus current capacity might be more correct for e.g. mugen et al, but still might as well be wrong, and user has no idea what's the design capacity value used to calculate the mAh shown in system-applet19:23
DocScrutinizer05I'm actually undecided what's preferable19:24
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: nope, since device is supposed to shut down hard at EDVF, not EDV119:24
ShadowJKWith my original bl-5js that was possible19:25
ShadowJKnot with the newer BL-5J and Japod though, the "knee" is really sharp :)19:26
kerioShadowJK: huh?19:27
DocScrutinizer05EDV1 is a good trigger for starting yelling at user about battery low, and it's supposed to happen at x>0 % of remaining charge. Since EDV1 is defined as 6% charge level on discharge, it makes sense to keep it that way, not to rescale that point in discharge to 0%19:27
kerioShadowJK: how good are you at kernel programming, btw?19:28
DocScrutinizer05the fact that bq27200 - for adjustment reasons - jumps from 6% -> 0% doesn't change that rationale19:28
DocScrutinizer05since even then, there are a remaining 6% of charge supposed to be available in cell until device shuts down19:29
kerioi think ShadowJK says that there's not enough juice in newer BL-5Js to do a clean shutdown at EDVF19:30
DocScrutinizer05if we say 0% charge is the moment when device shuts down hard, we mustn't rescale the percentage values of BQ2720019:30
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I honestly doubt that19:31
keriohe said something about a knee19:31
DocScrutinizer05I know that knee ;-)19:31
ShadowJKI mean that bq27200's 6% point of 3248mV is only vaguely accurate for the original bl-5js, with the new ones, edv1 point has almost enough power remaining to do clean shutdown. The voltage drops so fast I can't even see edvf coming, because the 1s refresh of bq27200 is not fast enough19:32
kerioShadowJK: damn, how do you calibrate it?19:33
DocScrutinizer05let's do some rough reckoning: device needs 30s to shut down, might eat 1000mA during that (high values on purpose), these are 30,000mAs19:33
keriooh, you mean that you can't see EDVF because then it hard shutdowns19:33
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DocScrutinizer05not too much for any knee, no matter how steep19:33
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ShadowJKkerio; well edvf is at 3000-something mV, hard shutdown at approx 2800, but the decline from 3000 to 2800 takes less than a second19:34
DocScrutinizer05maybe when you ramp up load from 5mA to 1200mA19:35
ShadowJKFor this battery, the thresholds would be better at 3200 and 3375 :)19:35
DocScrutinizer05then voltage will drop from 3000 to 2800mV in a millisecond19:35
DocScrutinizer05only on poor battery with high Z though19:36
DocScrutinizer05I might agree we ideally want to allow user to config EDVF-sys19:37
DocScrutinizer05but alas we virtually aren't able to allow this for bq2720019:37
ShadowJKI havent done much testing at idle, but with my high-z batteries, there's alot use time left after 3248mV19:38
keriowtf is z19:38
DocScrutinizer05(unless we find a way to reprogram the EEPROM in device)19:38
ShadowJKkerio; impedance/resistance19:38
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ShadowJK the reason the cyan japod bl-5j has no datapoints logged after 3200mV is that device hard shutdown :)19:41
DocScrutinizer05we might want to start a special mode when VBAT trips a user defined EDVF-sys, where system intentionally ramps up current drawn from battery to 500mA for 10s, every other minute, to let bq27200 detect EDVF(real) under a load as anticipated during shutdown19:41
DocScrutinizer05for your japod that EDVF-sys should be 3350mV I'd guess19:42
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: or, you know, just do things based on voltage instead of bq27200 flags19:43
DocScrutinizer05or that19:43
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ShadowJKAnother view, the point at which the lines touch the bottom is the minimum voltage needed to sustain more than 3248mV under maximum load
DocScrutinizer05though we'd never complete a learning cycle then19:44
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: isn't that just a very screwed way to say "this battery has a Z of xy"?19:45
ShadowJKSo with the crappy BL-5J, that point is reached at 3650-ish mV at idle, but slightly above 3400mV for the better batteries :)19:45
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; yes, but it takes into account a Z that changes between empty and full batt19:45
DocScrutinizer05obviously a general rle for batteries is: the higher the capacity squeezed out of a given volume, the higher the Z of that cell19:46
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ShadowJK :)19:46
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DocScrutinizer05obviously a physical rule introduced by electrodes getting thinner the more active chemistry you cram into that volume19:47
ShadowJKthe higher density japod and new nokia bl-5j have better Z than I ever saw with the original 1320 nokia bl-5j :)19:48
DocScrutinizer05sorry, have to run to get some 'fuel' for me, for the weekend19:48
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's due to better chemistry then19:48
DocScrutinizer05or due to better geometry19:48
ShadowJKCharges faster, lasts longer, holds higher voltage under load :)19:49
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DocScrutinizer05anyway we started with calculation of charge-percentage, it's always meant to be percentage of currently provided maximum available charge of that particular battery (=100%) to the point where device shuts down (soft but inevitably) (=0%)19:51
DocScrutinizer05if the values from bq27200 don't extrapolate from 6% down to the point where device shuts down, then those values have to get scaled19:52
DocScrutinizer05otoh, if they don't, then those values are moot anyway, since the learning cycle is based on that EDV1 voltage19:53
DocScrutinizer05so we can't assume any battery ever reching point of shutdown at maybe 15% of bq27200 calculated available charge, since then bq27200 never could complete a learning cycle19:54
kerioso the high-capacity batteries are bad!19:54
DocScrutinizer05nope, our handling of them is bad19:54
DocScrutinizer05or rather, poor19:54
keriovoltage is always accurate, right?19:55
DocScrutinizer05we need a scheme as suggested by me above, to compensate for voltage drop due to Z, at end of charge19:55
DocScrutinizer05yep, volatge always accurate, as is mA19:55
ShadowJKIdeally I'd think fire off a low battery alarm when taking into account Z, shutdown threshold would be reached at max load. soft shutdown after edv1 unless a call in progress, then just sync fs regulary and wait for hard shutdown?19:55
DocScrutinizer05sounds about right19:56
keriohm, soft shutdown after EDV1? :s19:56
keriohow do you calibrate then?19:56
DocScrutinizer05calibration aka learning cycle completes at raching EDV119:56
ShadowJKif edv1 is raised by bq27200, then learning already happened19:56
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DocScrutinizer05(written especially for you, kerio)19:58
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devilinsidei have formatted my new 32 gb card into 3 parts19:58
devilinsidebut it is not showin while swap on19:58
DocScrutinizer05a bit more elaborate please19:59
devilinsidenot found.. :(19:59
devilinsidewhile tryin to swapon , it is saying mmcblk1p2 not found20:00
DocScrutinizer05you want to use a partition on your uSD as swap, but swapon doesn't allow it? man mkswap20:00
devilinsidetried that but the filesystem is not showing those partitions... ls -l /dev/mmc* is not showing partition 2 n 320:01
DocScrutinizer05or in short, i'd guess: mkswap mmcblk1p220:01
keriodevilinside: you're lying20:01
kerioor you botched the partitioning20:01
kerioif you used a fdisk, make sure you actually wrote the changes20:01
devilinsideno bro, seriously.. i just bought it now only... and partitioned using gparted.20:01
devilinsidei used gparted on ubuntu20:02
keriodid you actually write the changes?20:02
devilinsidewrite?? apllied??20:02
devilinsideyea i did apply them20:02
kerioi suppose so, yes20:02
keriodoes your ubuntu desktop see the partitions on the uSD?20:02
keriooh, i think i know what happened20:02
devilinsideyupp.... gparted is still showing..20:02
DocScrutinizer05devilinside: use sfdisk -l on N90020:03
keriodevilinside: did you do the partitioning while using the n900's mass storage mode?20:03
devilinsidethe fat partition is being shown in my phone but not the swap ones20:03
keriowell, it doesn't know about the new partition table :)20:03
devilinsidenow what to do?20:03
kerioeasier way to fix it: remove the uSD and put it back in20:03
DocScrutinizer05you can't partition the exported stuff from mass storage20:04
devilinsidethnx bro .. trying20:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you can20:04
keriodevilinside: i don't think we share any relative, let alone a parent20:04
DocScrutinizer05it's already exportin partitions20:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: no srsly, the whole uSD is exported20:04
DocScrutinizer05mass stroage mode is NOT a card reader20:04
kerioit's actually something that i really want to change, but it does work20:05
kerioMSM exports /dev/mmcblk0p1 and /dev/mmcblk120:05
devilinsideyupp it worked...20:05
devilinsidethank yu bro...20:05
devilinside:) :)20:05
devilinsidethinking of installing cssu too :)20:06
DocScrutinizer05you should do that20:06
keriodevilinside: there was also a software-only way to fix it, mind you20:06
keriobut i would've had to look it up20:06
devilinsidesorry have a habit of using bro in excess...20:06
kerioprobably just fdisk and then write20:06
kerioor some way to notify the kernel that the partition layout was changed20:06
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: how do we change the exporting, btw?20:06
DocScrutinizer05yes, sfdisk is supposed to call a kernel function that's meant to reread part tbl20:06
kerioit's annoying, and it exports my swap partition20:07
kerioDocScrutinizer05: sfdisk -R20:07
DocScrutinizer05kerio: get cssu, look for my patch to blacklist partition mount. I think it applies similarly to export20:07
kerio-R  Only execute the BLKRRPART ioctl20:07
DocScrutinizer05basically formatting uSD via ass rage mode isn't really supported, by design20:08
kerioDocScrutinizer05: then why does MSM export the partition table too? :)20:08
DocScrutinizer05ARM isn't designed to support it20:08
devilinsidehey how to set the priority for 2 partition that i have in uSD20:09
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: it does that since it assumes super floppy format on uSD20:09
DocScrutinizer05my take on it20:09
kerioi'm so glad nokia thinks i'm a moron20:09
keriodevilinside: the stock swapon doesn't support that20:09
DocScrutinizer05sorry I *have* to hurry now20:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wait, i'm about to suggest busybox-power to a noob!20:10
devilinsidei have that already20:10
DocScrutinizer05couldn't care less20:10
keriothen... swapon -p <priority> /dev/<device file>20:10
keriodoesn't it work?20:10
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devilinsideafter swapon on SD , tried swapoff the emmc.. it restarted20:14
devilinsidei tried keeping SD swap as only one..20:15
DocScrutinizer05you did mkswap on uSD?20:16
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DocScrutinizer05no swap without mkswap20:16
DocScrutinizer05man mkswap20:16
DocScrutinizer05(fremantle kernel doesn't support swapfiles though, beware!)20:17
keriowait, what? :O20:17
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DocScrutinizer05what what?20:19
DocScrutinizer05WTF is infobot?20:19
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the more i hear about the stock kernel, the more i realize that it sucks20:19
DocScrutinizer05why support cruft that's not used? it bloats kernel20:20
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DocScrutinizer05(^^^ Nokia's thinking, quite legitimate)20:20
DocScrutinizer05less cruft, less bugs, less bootup time20:21
DocScrutinizer05less space used up it mtd20:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: indeed20:22
kerioi bet that's also the reason FOR THE SHITTON OF AWFUL STUFF IN PREINIT20:22
DocScrutinizer05nah, that's "never touch a running system" rule applying here20:22
keriothat doesn't apply20:23
kerioi think you mean "don't fix what isn't broken"20:23
keriothere hasn't been a live n810 system transferred to a n90020:23
DocScrutinizer05you're sure about that?20:23
ShadowJKswapfile on vfat hangs with stock kernel20:23
ShadowJKalso, filefrag hangs :-)20:24
kerioDocScrutinizer05: without powering it down, i mean20:24
kerioif anything, because i doubt there's a way20:24
kerioyou'd have to physically move the RAM and tweak the CPU registers, or something like that20:24
kerio...i suppose it's doable with JTAG20:24
DocScrutinizer05I see your point, nevertheless the saying is like i quoted it, afaik20:25
DocScrutinizer05while the meaning is like you suggested20:25
DocScrutinizer05I might be wrong20:26
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how to deal with "PLZ HLP! can't create xy. PLZ HLP!" PM20:27
kerioHLP HIM20:27
DocScrutinizer05"sorry dude, I'm not an expert for that and my time doesn't allow to fix this for you in private mail. Please ask on tmo, so others might help too" ?20:28
infobotSince Sat Nov 10 03:44:15 2012, there have been 1 modification, 11 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 10 commands.  I have been awake for 14h 45m 5s this session, and currently reference 118787 factoids.  I'm using about 22272 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 194.47/2.76 child 0/020:29
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot20:29
infobotfrom memory, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
ShadowJKwtf, opera has started crashing20:30
DocScrutinizer05gdb time20:31
ShadowJKi wonder if it's due to opera servers being down20:32
DocScrutinizer05easy to check20:32
DocScrutinizer05 /etc/hosts is your first friend20:32
keriodafuq, i can't connect to my wifi network20:33
DocScrutinizer05I had that a while ago20:33
DocScrutinizer05only a reboot did cure stuff20:33
ShadowJKit crashes immediately after it retrieves a .js file from opera20:33
DocScrutinizer05been pretty pissed about it20:33
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: lol20:34
keriolet's try the bleeding edge drivers :D20:34
* ShadowJK unloads and reloads normal drivers when it doesnt connect to wifi20:34
DocScrutinizer05didn't help for me20:34
DocScrutinizer05or maybe I simply CBA, after offline mode didn't help20:35
DocScrutinizer05thought offline mode would unload drivers20:35
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DocScrutinizer05anyway been a one-shot bug so far for me, so I forgot about it rather fast20:36
keriothis is BS :c20:36
DocScrutinizer05esp since nobody seemed to care20:36
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DocScrutinizer05there's that other bug in WiFi where it sticks connected to a AP that's possibly 100s of miles away already20:37
DocScrutinizer05sth fishy in that WiFi crap20:37
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DocScrutinizer05I've also seen DHCP lease not getting renewed for GPRS20:38
keriomoving data over the air20:38
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kerioit's clearly black magic20:38
DocScrutinizer05also a situation I usually have to solve by reboot20:39
kerioconnected without a hitch20:39
DocScrutinizer05and occasionally (two times so far) modem blows chunks and doesn't allow 2G data connectivity anymore, while 3G works just fine20:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: are you sure that can't be fixed by a stop sscd; start sscd?20:40
DocScrutinizer05nope, not sure20:41
kerioanyway, the error i was getting was "link not ready"20:41
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DocScrutinizer05the "can't connect to home WiFi" bug been actually rather obscure and scary. It simply didn't display my home AP anymore in list of available networks20:42
DocScrutinizer05maybe my memory is cloudy on that event20:42
DocScrutinizer05(as you might've guessed, I spoiled it regarding shopping food for weekend - as usual)20:43
keriodon't lie, you're german, you guys don't have food up there20:44
DocScrutinizer05depends on your definition, I guess20:45
DocScrutinizer05we got pretty decent milk at least, sth you never heard of20:45
keriolet's just say edibility isn't sufficient to classify something as food, for me20:45
keriomeh, the milk in my city is fairly decent20:46
keriobut yeah, there's a distinct difference when compared to fresh milk from a farmer :)20:46
DocScrutinizer05you actually got milk that's not been killed and ruined by heating it to 120°C20:47
kerionot in stores20:47
DocScrutinizer05gathered as much20:47
kerioi thought pasteurization was a lower temperature than that20:47
DocScrutinizer05best-before: 2013-05-3120:48
keriooh, we also have fresh milk20:48
ShadowJKfarmer's milk tastes a bit nasty after drinking fat-free milk20:48
keriothe one with a shelf life of... 5 days20:48
DocScrutinizer05fine! :-)20:49
DocScrutinizer05that's 'real' milk20:49
kerioused to be 4, a year ago20:49
kerioi thought that was a given, actually :s20:49
* ShadowJK likes the sausages you can get hot from small kiosks20:49
kerioyou mean there's places where you can only get UHT milk? :(20:50
* ShadowJK had never seen UHT milk before visiting germany20:50
DocScrutinizer05I thought whole italy was like that, same for whole Spain, and Greece20:50
keriothat's the "emergency" milk we sometimes buy, especially at my holiday house, because the closest shop is like 10 minutes away by car20:51
amospallaguys, how safe would you say is cssu-thumb ? My n900 is my main phone, and is highly customized, reflashing is half a day full of work, and I'm afraid something goes wrong20:51
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i think it's fair to say BITCH PLEASE20:52
kerioamospalla: ...why aren't you using backupmenu already?20:52
kerioamospalla: given that, it's completely and absolutely safe*20:52
kerio*note: may not be completely and absolutely safe20:52
amospallayoure right20:53
DocScrutinizer05indeed, cssu-thimb is as safe as your backup measures are20:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the same can be said about CSSU actually :)20:53
amospallaI rsync daily the full phone20:53
kerioamospalla: hm, that won't really work properly20:53
kerioi mean, it's a live system20:54
kerioopened files and stuff20:54
DocScrutinizer05well, it kinda works, but isn't exactly easy to restore20:54
kerioDocScrutinizer05: make tarball, restore tarball with backupmenu :)20:54
DocScrutinizer05and yes, you might see problems with open files20:54
infoboti heard backupmenu is
DocScrutinizer05no open files20:54
kerioamospalla: before installing any kind of cssu you are strongly advised to install backupmenu and do a full backup20:54
DocScrutinizer05easy restore20:54
kerioamospalla: once you have that, restoring is really easy20:55
kerioeven if you completely fuck up things20:55
keriothere's even a fiasco image of stock PR1.3 with backupmenu already installed20:55
amospallaso, there is no way to do a functional backup with the live file system ?20:56
amospallaI remember playing with backup menu some months ago20:56
DocScrutinizer05amospalla: be aware though that, while maybe rather stable in binaries, the *maintenance* of cssu-thumb is sub-par and no way at same level as cssu-stable or even cssu-testing20:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hey! >:(20:56
kerioit's effectively the same as cssu-testing!20:56
amospallayes, I guess its less stable than testing, Im using stable now20:56
amospallawell, its testing, plus new packages compiled with thumb, so there is always an added risk20:57
DocScrutinizer05there's additional steps involved in setup of cssu-thumb20:57
amospallabut, I remember playing with backupmenu, and doing an rsync from root, got more bytes than could be put on that root file system20:57
amospalladoing rsync from backupmen20:58
kerioamospalla: that's the magic of ubifs20:58
DocScrutinizer05and updates are not same smooth process as for cssu-s20:58
DocScrutinizer05or -t20:58
amospallaohhh.. ok, I understand now20:58
amospallaso, what does that mean, could I restore that rsync copy later to root volume?20:58
amospallaif I have more bytes to restore than df shows me that volume can handle?20:59
DocScrutinizer05file-by-file yes20:59
kerioamospalla: well, it did fit previously :)20:59
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amospallahum... my mind can not process that, I must read about ubifs20:59
keriomy latest rootfs backup is 303MB20:59
DocScrutinizer05dd to /dev/mtd6, no20:59
kerioit's just transparent compression20:59
amospallaohhhh.... ok20:59
kerioDocScrutinizer05: ubimkvol to /dev/mtd6 yes, though :320:59
kerioubi is weird as shit though, even without ubifs on top21:00
kerioit's how you make UBI images21:00
kerioand/or flash them, i'm not sure21:00
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DocScrutinizer05I'd like to go further the path of nanddump/nandwrite we explored some weeks ago, kerio21:00
kerioamospalla: in theory, backupmenu can restore the tarball you made with rsync21:00
amospallaso, rsync from live file system, with right parameters is not good enough for a backup?21:01
amospallaI know it's not recommended21:01
kerioamospalla: it's just kinda weird to restore21:01
amospallabut it would be like a copy of a hard reset state21:01
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amospallayes, but within backupmenu, I can do rsync21:01
amospallaand I remember had some script of that21:01
kerioamospalla: because we all know unclean shutdowns are so good for your data :P21:01
kerioamospalla: of course21:01
kerioyou can do that from rescueOS too21:01
kerioreally, any system that doesn't actually mount the maemo rootfs21:02
keriothe question is *why*, though?21:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: for the kernel, you mean?21:02
DocScrutinizer05the recommended way however is: do a BM backup to a tarball on uSD, restore from same tarball if needed21:02
amospallaI understand, but using it daily is a pain21:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: not only kernel, maybe even disk-image of /21:02
DocScrutinizer05from inside BM21:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hm, that won't work21:03
kerioand it's also wasteful21:03
DocScrutinizer05dunno, basically for such scheme it's irrelevant which partition to backup, first instance21:03
DocScrutinizer05we could even do a suspend-to-disk and then get an image of the swapfile. start up system into live state rather than booting ;-)21:05
DocScrutinizer05won't possibly work out for cmt21:05
keriooffline mode/stopped sscd maybe21:06
DocScrutinizer05and a few other peripherals that never get shutdown during suspend-to-disk21:06
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: anyway, apparently nandwriting/flash_erasealling an UBI volume is a big no21:06
kerioalso, this is fucking UNIX21:07
kerioand in fucking UNIX, we make tarballs, not images21:07
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DocScrutinizer05the idea to install and start up a suspended live system rather than a rootfs to boot from, quite intriguing an idea21:07
amospallaIll take the risk of daily rsync from live data :(21:07
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you used windows 8 too much, i think21:07
DocScrutinizer05nope, don't even know what that is21:08
kerioapparently, "shutdown" means "hibernate" now21:08
devilinsiderestarted again... yeah i had done mkswap n then swapon..21:08
DocScrutinizer05amospalla: for daily backups rsync is probably just fine21:09
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DocScrutinizer05hi vi_21:09
vi_can anyone jog my memory...21:10
vi_How do I enable portrait desktop mode?21:10
amospallaI think Im trying cssu-thumb, the idea of more memory is so appealing21:10
keriogconftool something something21:10
DocScrutinizer05amospalla: for restoring a broken system from scratch though, you wanna use genuine BM measures21:10
amospallafrom backup menu, having console, network and rsync, couldnt work?21:10
DocScrutinizer05vi_: where? cssu-s?21:10
kerioamospalla: why bother with that?21:11
vi_DocScrutinizer05: cssu-t21:11
vi_I just managed to clone a second n900 from my first.21:11
vi_it is for mrs vi__21:11
vi_What a mission.21:11
DocScrutinizer05vi_: in -t you got that status-applet21:11
vi_All the applications rotate, just not the desktop.21:11
DocScrutinizer05portait autorotate should be on by default21:12
DocScrutinizer05ooh, see cssu wiki21:12
vi_I went out of my way to remove portrait mode from my device.21:12
amospallakerio: beucause my daily backup consists of rsync data, and the restore is best done from backupmenu21:12
amospallaand having backupmenu with network and an rsync executable, I can restore21:12
kerioamospalla: yeah but it's going to be a lot faster if you make a full backup on a local storage medium21:12
vi_found it...21:12
vi_I think21:12
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# cat bin/no-portrait-gconfkey21:13
DocScrutinizer05gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false21:13
amospallayes, true, but what I try to explain is that what is more comfortable is backup from live data, rsync script, that have to shutdown and do backupmenu21:13
vi_gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock -t bool true21:13
vi_heh, you beat me to it.21:13
vi_It is crazy how utterly different everyones N900 setup is.21:14
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DocScrutinizer05amospalla: see my previous suggestion to do 'full' backup via BM once, and keep rsync for later recovery of latest changes21:16
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amospallaDocScrutinizer05: oh I understand21:17
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DocScrutinizer05I'm also doing daily rsync, see21:19
infoboti guess jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05all down to the bottom of that page21:19
DocScrutinizer05completely invisible to me21:19
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keriothis reminds me, i should make a BM backup21:19
DocScrutinizer05still I doo a BM backup before any system upgrade21:19
kerioi only do that before testing silly things :321:20
keriolike Pali's bme replacement21:20
DocScrutinizer05that too21:20
vi_turns out a good way to speed up going from reflash to backup menu installed is to set r&D mode when you do a flash.21:20
keriodafuq, my phone entered ACT_DEAD mode on shutdown21:20
vi_This allows root access without rootsh package (which involves using HAM)21:21
keriovi_: tru dat21:21
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kerioan even faster way is to restore robbiethe1st's fiasco image21:21
vi_which inturn allows you to edit sources.list and activate extras in one move.21:21
vi_kerio: How did he make that image?21:21
amospallathis is a lot of interesting information21:22
vi_kerio: God knows what spyware and porndialers he hid in it.21:22
DocScrutinizer05activate extras? AFAIK it's activvated by default since PR1.221:22
vi_ah.  You are too young to remember porn dialers.21:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: apparently hammering on the power button can cause that21:22
keriovi_: nope21:22
kerionot *that* young21:22 young?21:22
kerio(i did get DSL at a young age, though)21:22
kerioi was born in '9221:23
DocScrutinizer05I *wrote* them ;-P21:23
vi_Is that a fucking joke?21:23
keriono sir21:23
keriohold on, which part?21:23
keriomy age, or the fact that i remember dialers?21:23
vi_Your age.21:23
kerioneither is a joke, i'm afraid21:23
vi_I have never read jwtools before.21:24
vi_There is some interesting shit here.21:24
keriovi_: i'm sorry you're more likely to die before me :(21:24
DocScrutinizer05vi_: why a joke? you thought he's 8 years?21:24
vi_DocScrutinizer05: like, 14.21:24
* kerio feels insulted21:24
DocScrutinizer05vi_: (jrtools) hehe, see what you've missed21:25
vi_fix a bug that re-appears with each new CSSU upgrade:21:27
vi_apt-get install rtcom-accounts-voip-support21:27
vi_^what is this?21:27
keriovi_: something that's not needed anymore21:27
amospallawow, man-db-n900, how many times Ive done man xx21:27
keriovi_: if it turns out that it's needed, file a bug :)21:28
amospallaanyone knows what is that gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav -t int 5 ?21:29
kerioalt-tab-like task-switching21:30
vi_amospalla: Yes, you want it.21:30
* kerio doesn't use it21:30
vi_kerio: Is pali's non bme charging working yet?21:31
keriobeen using it for a couple of days21:31
kerioworks fine21:31
kerioonce i woke up to a shut-down n900, though21:32
vi_kerio: You have bme killed at the time?21:33
keriowith nothing in the logs21:33
keriovi_: if you have the whole replacement package installed, you have *no bme*21:33
vi_kerio: aah, so it was plugged in, failed to charge and ran out of battery?21:33
keriono, no, it was charging21:33
vi_charging and died?21:33
kerio(besides, i went to sleep when the battery was like at half charge, it should've survived a night in standby)21:34
kerioi have no fucking clue21:34
kerioanyway, install it21:35
kerioit's neat21:35
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vi_I will.21:35
vi_On my stunt n90021:35
vi_no more bricking my main phone for me.21:36
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ron0062000when is the next update21:53
DocScrutinizer05ron0062000: update of what?21:56
ron0062000ssu testing21:56
DocScrutinizer05pending since ~2 weeks now21:56
DocScrutinizer05ask merlin199121:57
DocScrutinizer05seems each time we're about to start internal rollout tests of image to deploy, somebody pops up with a bugreport against one of the included components and makes us postpone the rollout21:59
DocScrutinizer05I'm not saying this is the supposed way to handle things, but actually it seems it's how things are handled right now22:00
DocScrutinizer05aiui one of the problems is that there's no easy procedure to roll back to a previous version of compnents already delivered/shipped in former cssu revisions. I might be wrong on that22:02
ron0062000i need help should community ssu testing catalogs be open or community ssh be open or both22:04
ron0062000i ment ssu22:06
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DocScrutinizer05((<vi_> ^what is this?)) check apt-cache policy rtcom-accounts-voip-support. if it's not installed, you got hit by that bug22:06
DocScrutinizer05the bug disables voip calls22:06
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DocScrutinizer05SIP, not friggin skype22:07
DocScrutinizer05ron0062000: depending on your flavor you installed, you should keep catalog for testing or catalog for stable enabled. Don't mess with the other catalogs unless you know what you're doing22:09
ron0062000my flavor is testing22:10
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DocScrutinizer05then your catalog "Community SSU (testing)" should be enabled, all other "Community *" catalogs disabled22:13
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: security reasons, eh? ;-P22:13
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DocScrutinizer05one of the secrets of a userfriendly distro is to follow same policy as much as possible, at very least inside one domain/topic, like HAM catalogs22:15
DocScrutinizer05assuming user knows which of the "Community *" catalogs to enable or disable, while not allowing user to edit name of maemo-extras is hardly following one consistent policy22:17
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devilinsidehelp!! kiero :'(22:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the "correct" thing would be to separate the GPG keys for each repo, and then add those keys to HAM22:18
devilinsideit is still rebooting.. :(22:18
kerioin a hidden way22:18
keriodevilinside: dude, i don't know what you've done22:18
DocScrutinizer05if CSSU policy regarding catalog handling is to allow user all reasonable freedom of choice (sth I support much), then we should apply same policy to all catalogs22:18
devilinsidedid everything written in wiki..22:18
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keriowritten *where* in the wiki?22:18
keriohow have you disabled the swap partition on the eMMC?22:19
devilinsidewenever i swapon , the ram goes to 197m n then it rebboots after sometime..22:19
devilinsidetried the first script.. it rebooted instantly..22:20
DocScrutinizer05devilinside: if your swaps are not same size, then switching off the larger swap might not get compensated by providing a new smaller swap. result would be a reboot22:20
devilinsidemy swap size are of 1.5 gb each..22:20
DocScrutinizer05too much, frankly22:21
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i've got 1gb, but only because otherwise the fucking image viewer complains about "too little memory"22:21
kerioi used to run 4gb22:21
devilinside@doc - ned to lower it?22:22
devilinside4gb in one partition?22:22
keriodevilinside: meh, i don't think it's the reason22:22
kerioit could be the stupid "reboot on $something unresponsive due to IO"22:22
devilinsidethen what hould be? on swap on, the ram usage goes near 200M22:23
keriowait, what?22:23
keriothat makes no sense22:23
devilinsidetried that nice -20 but failed..22:23
devilinsidenormally, ram usage is 145 M , and then it suddenly goes to 1297 M ... conky..22:24
devilinsiden more..22:24
kerioi don't get it22:24
kerioram *usage* at more than 1GB is not normal22:24
kerioand the fact that it causes reboots is unsurprising22:25
DocScrutinizer05 exec  | sudo gainroot <<EOF   ??22:25
devilinsidebefore swapon , on normal emmc swap ram is nearly used abiut 145 M to 160 M.. but as soon as i swap on it goes to 197 n comes down to 189M22:25
kerioDocScrutinizer05: which package does that?22:26
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't even know how to read that22:26
keriooh gods22:26
DocScrutinizer05exec a pipe to sudo?22:26
DocScrutinizer05or what does that mean?22:27
kerioexecs "exec sh $0 $*" or something22:27
kerioas root22:27
kerioi don't even22:27
DocScrutinizer05you can't exec a pipe22:27
devilinsideno idea.. askthose who wrote the script...22:27
keriohe's not executing a pipe22:27
devilinsideits something to get root prweviliges..22:27
keriohe's executing, and piping the output to22:27
DocScrutinizer05kerio: no way22:27
kerioi should put my swapswap script there22:28
devilinsidedo it plzz..22:28
DocScrutinizer05input to sudo gainroot is redirected from here-document22:28
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DocScrutinizer05so no way to pipe something to it, even if exec would have *anything* to pipe22:28
keriodevilinside: it's not something i'm particularly proud of22:29
kerioit's kinda ugly22:29
kerioalso, it doesn't do anything with the onboard swap22:29
DocScrutinizer05exec without arguments simply sets stdin, stdou and stderr filehandles of the running script to their defaults22:29
devilinsidebut maybe it will work on my n900..22:29
devilinsideits not about pride( btw, u shud take pride in it) but for helpin a fellow troubled person22:30
DocScrutinizer05CBA to test that cryptic command, but I'd simply say it's buggy22:30
DocScrutinizer05without the | it would makje some sense22:30
devilinsideokay.. whats the first step for swpon?22:31
DocScrutinizer05the pipe| though is nonsense in my book22:31
keriodevilinside: why do you even need a script22:31
keriodevilinside: sudo swapon /dev/mmcblk1p2 && sudo swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p322:31
devilinsidebecause i tried all my lil knowledge which turned out to be useless...22:31
devilinsideyeahh did the same..22:31
devilinsideafter the first command, the RAM usage goes higher and the n restarts after swapoff..22:32
kerioyou're lying22:32
DocScrutinizer05devilinside: let more savvy users here help you on a step-by-step test22:32
devilinsidei swear...22:32
DocScrutinizer05a cryptic script won't help you out22:33
keriounless you have something really weird installed22:33
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i've never once used my swapswap script :s22:33
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devilinsideyeah have lot many things installed but what should be the trouble?22:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: please! telling users "you're lying" is an insult22:34
keriodevilinside: something that shits itself once the RAM changes22:35
devilinsideokay.. so m going to format it now and then report...22:35
DocScrutinizer05I'm not even sure devilinside's uSD partitioning is in line with that script22:35
devilinsideyeah yeah it is..22:36
devilinsidels -l /dev/mmc*22:36
devilinsideshows l1p1, l1p2, l1p322:36
DocScrutinizer05and you did mkswap on both swap partitons on the uSD?22:36
devilinsidewhr p1 is for mmc22:36
devilinsidei did it on both...22:37
DocScrutinizer05so swapon works for both?22:37
keriodevilinside: have you installed syslog?22:37
devilinsidesyslog? maybe no...22:37
DocScrutinizer05why syslog?22:37
DocScrutinizer05first test elementary functions manually, one by one22:37
keriomaybe something complained about the extra ram and logged about it22:37
devilinsideyes.. swapon worked on both but openng any other application or swapoff is just letting it to reboot.22:37
DocScrutinizer05then your uSD is defect, i'd suppose22:38
DocScrutinizer05IO error on accessing swap22:39
kerioooh, could be22:39
devilinsidethen how to check the correctness of the partitions.22:40
keriobadblocks, maybe?22:40
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keriodevilinside: do you have a real card reader and a computer with linux handy?22:40
DocScrutinizer05umount/swapoff both partitons, then do a dd if=$partition of=/dev/null22:40
devilinsidebut ubuntu 11.10 and no card reader ..22:40
devilinsidebut after a swapon and swapoff it survived this time till i started opera ..22:41
DocScrutinizer05and also a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/$partition22:41
devilinsideafter opening one tab it restarted..22:41
DocScrutinizer05that's irrelevant22:42
DocScrutinizer05swap will cause boot when needed thus used22:42
DocScrutinizer05not earlier22:42
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DocScrutinizer05so the moment when device reboots is determined by ram usage which in turn is depending on a lot of factors22:43
devilinsideyeah but a sudden increase on swapon n swapoff...22:43
DocScrutinizer05of course it will try to use new swap when you swapoff oldswap22:44
DocScrutinizer05unless oldswap been completely unused at that moment22:44
devilinsidethe old swap is nearly unused after the reboot caused because of on/off swap... it was about 30MB while RAM=170M22:46
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DocScrutinizer05useless to muse about it. If your uSD has IO errors, then enabling swap on it will cause kernel panic ar random point in time22:50
DocScrutinizer05next step in bughunting: test that uSD in same device, but without any swap involved22:50
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DocScrutinizer05usual symptom of flaky uSD: a dd if=/dev/zero of=$some-location-on-uSD bs=100k count=10000 will abort at random, some 100k to 100M into the write22:53
DocScrutinizer05seen this several times22:54
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DocScrutinizer05if it doesn't, we're facing a more arcane problem22:57
devilinsideit still is going on.. not terminating..22:59
devilinsidelets c if it terminates or not...22:59
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devilinsidedd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk1p2 bs=100k count 1000023:00
devilinside976.6MB copied with &.#MB/s23:00
DocScrutinizer05looks good, yes23:00
Paliseems that jolla device will have unlocked root account:
devilinside10000+) records in and out23:01
DocScrutinizer05mkswap /dev/mmcblk1p223:01
devilinsidegives - setting swap space blah blah..23:01
DocScrutinizer05swapon /dev/mmcblk1p2; swapoff /dev/mmcblk1p223:02
devilinsidelemme try this..23:02
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devilinsideerror../dev/mmcblkp1p2 : invalid argument now..23:03
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, there's a typo23:04
DocScrutinizer05mount|grep mmcblk1p223:04
ShadowJKPali; maybe it's a useless root harmattan-like? :)23:05
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devilinsidegave nothing23:05
PaliShadowJK, maybe...23:05
Palior maybe not23:05
Palibut I do not trust nokia/jolla anymore...23:06
DocScrutinizer05sfdisk -l23:06
DocScrutinizer05sfdisk -l | grep mmcblk1p223:06
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devilinsidetrying trying wait..23:08
devilinsideiots rebooting again..23:08
devilinsidetried p3 this time.. again rebooted..23:08
devilinsideeverytime i swapoff 0p3, the swap starts to decrease and ram increase..23:09
DocScrutinizer05:shrug: so what23:09
DocScrutinizer05swapoff mmcblk0p3 will switch off your genuine swap23:10
devilinsidey shud used swap decreas? as i have already assigned another swap space..23:10
DocScrutinizer05it's supposed to reboot instantly unless there's another swap available, or enough 'free' ram23:10
DocScrutinizer05I'm not going to help any furhter on investigating same old failing procedure over and over23:11
DocScrutinizer05I'm about to watch TV, and my time for IRC is interfering with that23:12
devilinsidesorry about your timeloss!! thanx for your help!!23:12
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devilinsidewhat was this supposed to give?23:15
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