IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-11-09

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DocScrutinizer05jr@halebop:~/n900> man kmod00:08
DocScrutinizer05No manual entry for kmod00:08
DocScrutinizer05Linux halebop 3.1.10-1.16-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Jun 27 05:21:40 UTC 2012 (d016078) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux00:09
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DocScrutinizer05googling kmod, reading about it, running into "Lennart Poettering"00:20
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks00:20
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DocScrutinizer05sounds to me like more cruft sacrificing 100s of kB to spped up boot by 1s00:24
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Skryskry@Arch ~ $ kmod -V;uname -a00:29
Skrykmod version 1000:29
SkryLinux Arch 3.6.3-2-ck #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Oct 22 16:37:03 EDT 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux00:29
Skryyou can't escape lennart00:29
DocScrutinizer05may there are other things I can do (to him)00:32
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DocScrutinizer05I may dream, may I?00:33
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Skryyes, you are (still) allowed to do that00:33
Skryno idea though how he relates to kmod00:34
* DocScrutinizer05 forks a kernel that does a grep for lennart and poettering in each and every file opened, and returns -EIO if grep matches00:34
DocScrutinizer05kmod devels apporached him to implement kmod into systemd00:34
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DocScrutinizer05I'll approach him to implement dbus, CORBA, and IP stack into systemd00:35
DocScrutinizer05and wayland, for showing the help pages on systemd --help00:36
DocScrutinizer05and, hell, maybe this now is THE opportunity to get rid of PA: integrate it into systemd00:36
merlin1991it's bad enough udev is there00:37
Skrymm, well, you don't have to have systemd to use kmod, and, well, kmod is on so we use it :)00:37
* DocScrutinizer05 feels that council headache again00:38
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DocScrutinizer05so I hope you can figure all my rant I don't dare to post anymore00:38
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Skryyeah, I know how you feel about this, don't take too seriously ;)00:39
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Skrymm, something happening?00:40
merlin1991that's what I'm about to find out :D00:40
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merlin1991hm there's though no idea if it's bad yet00:41
Skryahh, docs headache was council related, so maybe he can still learn to embrace and love lennart and his creations ;>00:43
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Sysaxedvolume keys are so weird... their meaning depends on the phone position...00:55
Sysaxedeven if the screen is locked00:55
Sysaxedso it's more like random to me00:55
Sysaxedhow can I remember which orientation I had when I locked the screen?...00:56
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Sysaxeddamn Nokia, how come they thought it's a good idea to switch keys depending on orientation?00:58
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DocScrutinizer05well, isn't that switching done inside the volume-adjuster apps?01:43
DocScrutinizer05isn't left button always Ft and right button F8 or sth?01:43
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: isn't left button always F7 and right button F8 or sth?01:44
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DocScrutinizer05aah, you rproblem probably is on DBus where those events show up as vol+ and vol-01:45
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SysaxedDocScrutinizer05, yes, the only problem is the volume switcher01:47
Sysaxedthat's what bothers me01:47
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DocScrutinizer05xchat for example _always_ scrolls down the chan tab list with right vol switch, and up with left vol switch (unless you redefine the key mapping in xcaht settings)02:12
DocScrutinizer05no matter which orientation the device is in02:13
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DocScrutinizer05so if you got problems with the meaning of volume keys regarding volume-up/down, your design probably is flawed in that regard02:14
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SysaxedDocScrutinizer05, I'm talking about built in volume control02:51
Sysaxednot my software02:51
Sysaxedespecially when I'm receiving a call... that's awesome... "damn, it's too quite, I should make it louder a bit..." then you press the volume button and it gets muted02:52
Sysaxedand you're wondering why the person you're talking with is not speaking02:53
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Skrycannot say that I've had similar issues on volume keys, and I know the keys get reported to X as they are and should be (-> app level issue), BUT the step from mute to lowes volume is gigantic, and when lowering call volume I still after all these years accidently mute the audio.03:10
Skryofftopic of tonight, interesting read for linux/foss minded among us, regarding the madness at gnome, gtk and ubuntu camps:
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Skrythough mixing kde into that mess is just attention seeking and/or picking a fight, and I heard that some of the people mentioned as devs are not actually in that big position, but nevertheless, interesting03:18
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robbiethe1stI'm in favor of QT and KDE03:21
robbiethe1stSeems logical, useful, generally performant, and quite customizable.03:22
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robbiethe1stSee, if I wanted a 'brand' user experience, I'd go with Apple. The whole reason I'm on Linux is because I can make it do what /I/ want, and not what the developers envisioned.03:22
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SkryQT and KDE in here too. And unlike popular belief, kde performs really well when setup correctly and stripped of crud, which is important to me. And I'll agree your point on brands completely.03:24
SysaxedSkry, as far as I can see if you accept a call in landscape mode, then volume up is a key that is closer to the center03:24
Sysaxedand it's mirrored if you accept a call in portrait mode03:24
SkrySysaxed: yeah, might be as you say, never noticed though. But, like said, it's an application issue really, there are no magical accelerometer modifier for keymap etc so you can't blame the poor keys :)03:27
Sysaxedyep, I understand03:27
Sysaxedand it's closed source, right?03:28
Sysaxedso I have to live with it ? :\03:28
SkryI understand that you understand but for some reason I had to start picking on the words. I usually don't do that, it's irritating, sorry :) No idea about the closedness, wouldn't surprise me if it were.03:29
Sysaxedbtw, I've found an awesome way to lock/unlock screen :D03:32
Sysaxedmore about it tomorrow03:33
Sysaxednow I have to sleep03:33
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Skryanyways, I never quite understood why so many think so high about gtk. It's always been unintuitive to theme, theme engines are mostly crap, file requesters and such are imo clumsy and fugly etc. It's better than nothing though, and can be visually appealing and fast with good engine and theme (if you can find such), but still..03:44
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RST38hMeanwhile: Apple seeks cooling fan patent for iPhone, iPad05:05
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Luke-JrRST38h: wtf, fan in a phone?06:34
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vi_are there any bl-5j chargers that will not explode in my face?10:43
freemangordonthe lady with broken USB port bought a cheapo chinese one, so far she said it is ok10:44
freemangordon"universal charger" or something10:44
vi_I am utterly terrrified of chinese chargers.10:44
vi_At least 3 times I have seen a 5v transformer with a zener diode over the output.10:45
freemangordonyeah, that one looks terrifying, but strangely it works10:45
freemangordonnaah, that one has 3 LEDS :D:D:D10:45
vi_I bid buy from ebay 15x20mm pre-populated PCBs.10:46
vi_they have a li-0ion charge controller and a usb socket on them.10:46
vi_At one end and two pads for soldering the wires of the li-ion cell to the other.10:47
vi_Quite neat, usb li-ion charging on anything!10:47
vi_cost like 2euro each.10:47
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freemangordonthat one:10:49
freemangordonline too long10:49
vi_lol wut10:49
freemangordonvi_: so? how many10:55
vi_well it is complex!10:55
vi_I do all alarm type things from alarmed.10:55
vi_Which is, AIU the same backend for the regular alarms.10:56
freemangordonwho plays the sound?10:56
freemangordonit is10:56
vi_AFAIU it is just a normal alarm.10:56
vi_you use either alarmed or clock interface to set the alarm.10:56
vi_Then when alarmd notices that there should be an alarm going, it initiates the 'alarm screen'/10:57
freemangordonvi_: it is not tha backend10:57
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vi_that is the screen with stop/snooze on it.10:57
vi_alarmed is not the backend?10:58
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freemangordonI mean that it is not the backend that is buggy10:58
vi_alarmd==cron style scheduler.10:58
vi_alarmed==gui frontend.10:58
freemangordonI know10:58
vi_just making sure we are on the same page.10:58
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freemangordonso, again, how many alarm rings does it take to wake you up?10:59
vi_Well I am already awake by the time the alarm rings.10:59
vi_Let me explain.10:59
freemangordonwell, that is the reason you never miss one10:59
freemangordonas if you stop/snooze, everything is fine11:00
vi_My n900 connects to the internet 30 minutes before I wake up.11:00
vi_It then sets volume to 0.11:00
vi_It then connects to radio swiss jazz.11:00
freemangordonvi_: thats irrelevant11:00
vi_It then slowly ramps the volume to maximum.11:00
vi_the an alarm set in alarmed goes off.11:01
vi_It has never failed me yet.11:01
vi_The alarm rings when it is supposed to.11:01
freemangordonmy point is that if you miss first 6 rings you overslept (repeat time 5 minutes, 5 alarms set with 15 minutes interval)11:01
freemangordonvi_: yes, the first 5 or six ring when they are supposed to11:02
freemangordonbut not the following11:02
teotwakiThe N900 is useless to wake me up11:02
teotwakiso are the two blackberries, though11:02
teotwakiI have a physical alarm, a loud one11:03
teotwakiAnd at least two cron jobs11:03
vi_The n900 has always been like that.11:03
freemangordonand I deffinitely need lots of noise to wake me up when I go to bed in 3-4 am11:03
vi_eventually the alarm just gives up after a 1hr.11:03
freemangordonvi_: like what I explain?11:03
vi_It will stop ringing.11:04
vi_It is as if there is a 1hr window for the alarm to work in.11:04
freemangordonyeah. but finally I am irritated enough to RE it and fix that shit11:04
vi_Oh, I thought it was a feature.11:04
freemangordonalong with 60 seconds limit for the sound11:04
freemangordonvi_: feature11:04
freemangordoncome on11:05
freemangordontoldya, I have 5 or 6 alarms set up , 15 minutes interval (as if you set lesser interval it just wont ring)11:05
freemangordonwith 5 minutes for auto-snooze interval11:06
freemangordonwhen (finally) I wake up and press stop, then the next alarm starts to ring11:06
vi_6 alarms! THat is crazy.11:07
vi_It sounds like the bug is in YOUR firmware.11:07
freemangordonthe one that have been supposed to ring an hour or so ago11:07
freemangordonvi_: what is the problem to have 6 alarms?11:07
freemangordonor 60 in that regard11:07
freemangordonvi_: my first Nokia was 511011:08
vi_Can you imagine a man sleeping with 6 old fashioned alarm clocks all set to go off at staggered intervals.11:08
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vi_It is just a funny image.11:08
freemangordonand I thought I knew how Nokia alarms work11:08
jon_ythe 6 alarms are ritualistically arranged to wake the dead11:08
freemangordonhmm, maybe I should make them 66611:09
jon_ydid I just start a horror story :)11:09
vi_be sure to arrange your n900s in a token ring ethernet pentagram.11:09
freemangordonnaah, jewish star ethernet topology :P11:09
jon_ynah, it's wifi these days, not sure what's the aesthetic equivalent11:10
freemangordonanyway, alarmd systemui plugin is buggy as hell11:10
jon_ythe alarm app in the n900?11:10
freemangordonand deffinitely there is a memory leak11:10
jon_ysometimes it would not accept me pressing the "stop" button11:11
freemangordonthe one with stop/snooze buttons on it11:11
vi_I just do not understand why it was so important for nokia to sit on the source code for such trivial programs.11:11
jon_yyes that, it would ring non stop and lagged like crazy11:11
jon_ypatent pending cool code11:12
freemangordonvi_: the funny stuff is that it is called osso-...11:12
jon_ywrite a 3 liner perl script to replace it? :)11:13
freemangordonanyway, I have several more functions to RE and I'll have the complete source code. Will fix it . Hopefully11:13
freemangordonvi_: the point to not open it is that it uses lots of imports from systemui binary11:14
freemangordonso the whole systemui stack have to be open11:14
freemangordon(at least headers)11:14
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vi_I am not so familiar with how systemui is placed in the system.11:15
freemangordondon;t ask me why it is so precious to be kept closed I have NFC11:15
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vi_freemangordon: Well if you get bored of the alarm, RE tklock and get rid of the goddamned swipe to unlock bullshit.  DOuble press power button to lock, double press to unlock.11:16
freemangordonbut by looking at the alarm UI code I have some suspicions11:16
jon_yoh, and the calendar/time set applet too11:16
freemangordonvi_: well, first things first :P11:16
jon_ywhy do I have to swipe all the way to enter the minute11:16
jon_yall 0-5911:17
freemangordonjon_y: that one can be just rewrited, I don't think it needs to be REed11:17
vi_jon_y: GodDAMNED osso-startup wizard.11:17
infobotwell, re is religious education11:17
jon_ywhat's REed?11:18
freemangordoninfobot: you are stupid11:18
infobotfreemangordon: what are you talking about?11:18
freemangordonyou know11:18
freemangordonjon_y: reverse engineered11:18
vi_osso startup wizard making you drag the sliders to set the date and 'turn' the clock to set the time.  So fucking lame.  All is needed is a dialog that will remember if you like am/pm|24h and allow you to type in a string of characters to set the time/date.11:19
jon_ysomebody in Nokia likes the UI11:20
vi_fortunatley you can just apt-get remove osso-startup-wizard11:20
vi_somebody in nokia lies the cock.11:20
vi_somebody in nokia likes the cock.11:20
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* GeneralAntilles head-desks.11:51
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* vi_ passes GeneralAntilles the bong.12:21
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure why I replied.12:22
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andre__GeneralAntilles, because we all fail to ignore the trolls sometimes :)12:24
GeneralAntillesYeah. . . .12:25
GeneralAntillesI had to wake up at 2 this morning to deal with a minor emergency12:26
GeneralAntillesMade me weak.12:26
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: go back to sleep12:26
GeneralAntillesWired now.12:26
GeneralAntillesI'm going to be tired again about the time I have to be at work. :D12:26
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DocScrutinizer05hi GeneralAntilles13:28
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chem|stgoooood morning maemo13:36
chem|stestel is still trying to convince people that we do not need a council or even THAT council... now that he is banned from tmo he is on the mailing list13:38
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: The onboard backup battery is a li-ion?13:48
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DocScrutinizer05in a certain flavor13:48
DocScrutinizer05only 2.0..3.0V13:49
DocScrutinizer05or sth13:49
infobotit has been said that bupbat is, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months13:49
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: hey, what a delight13:50
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: gives me the confidence that reality has a certain continuity13:50
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vi_what sort of capacitance do you think would be required to replace the bupbat?13:51
vi_Would you need a series resitance?13:51
vi_Would the a cap ESR do?13:51
DocScrutinizer05anything with >= 3V and as much Farad as possible13:51
DocScrutinizer05no series R needed13:51
vi_Is there the necessarys to stop the cap dumping all of its charge at once?13:52
DocScrutinizer05the capacitive 414 has sth like 0.6F iirc, worth several weeks of RTC power13:52
DocScrutinizer05nope, no special requirements13:53
vi_aha. So o.1F would be enough for a battery swap.13:53
DocScrutinizer05probably 0.001F would suffice for swap13:53
vi_you can get an x7r 1206 0.1F.13:54
DocScrutinizer05sounds good enough13:54
PaliDocScrutinizer05, it is possible power n900 from charger only? (n900 without battery)13:54
vi_Pali: yes.13:54
vi_But not with BME running.13:54
DocScrutinizer05Pali: see tmo "hotswap of battery possible"13:55
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Palivi_, this is not problem I can replace bme :-)13:55
DocScrutinizer05I powered the device for an afternoon from USB, without battery inserted13:55
DocScrutinizer05cmt won't work though13:55
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: why?13:56
DocScrutinizer05why what?13:57
vi_why will cmt not work?13:57
DocScrutinizer05TX power surges13:57
DocScrutinizer05>2A possibly >4A13:57
vi_holy fuck.13:57
DocScrutinizer0520ms but no capacitor will buffer that13:58
DocScrutinizer05dang, that took a while. I'm definitely not feeling well today14:00
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vi_holy shit, farnel supply a 3000F cap.14:01
DocScrutinizer05vi, there's a funny direct linear relation between Wh aka Joule you can store in a capacitor, and its volume14:01
grammoboyhm cutetube doesn't find videos anymore14:01
grammoboyand the mediaplayer plugin neither14:01
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Yes, depending on construction material.14:02
jon_yvi_: HOLYSHIT 3000F?14:02
jon_yjust tempted to short it :)14:02
DocScrutinizer05yeah, only size of a coke bottle14:02
vi_jon_y: With your tounge!14:02
DocScrutinizer05and it's NOT low ESR14:02
jon_ywhats the voltage limit?14:03
DocScrutinizer052.x V14:03
jon_ykind of low14:03
jon_ystacking kind of halves the cap14:03
DocScrutinizer05not kind of14:04
grammoboyI want to download youtube video :(14:04
vi_actually low esr14:04
DocScrutinizer05exactly 1 / ( 1/C1 + 1/C2 )14:05
vi_only a mere £26014:06
DocScrutinizer05oooh pretty low ESR indeed14:06
vi_Short circuit current:14:06
DocScrutinizer05still, 2.7V - lame14:07
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vi_rated to contain 3W of power.14:07
DocScrutinizer05100uF/400V for sure gives better show effects14:07
DocScrutinizer05vi_: that's not a matching unit14:08
DocScrutinizer05neither power nor W14:08
DocScrutinizer05a light bulb can have 3W14:08
vi_I am just pasting from the datasheet.14:08
DocScrutinizer05they probably meant 3Ws14:08
vi_energy available: 3.04Wh14:09
DocScrutinizer05or even 3Wh14:09
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DocScrutinizer05which is an energy, not a power unit14:09
jon_yhow long does the n900 last at 0.5*c*v^2?14:09
DocScrutinizer05how long does N900 last on BL-5J (3.x Wh)?14:10
jon_yaround 3 days?14:11
DocScrutinizer05oooh, 4.9Wh14:11
DocScrutinizer05[2012-11-09 13:09:09] <vi_> energy available: 3.04Wh14:12
vi_look at that.14:12
DocScrutinizer05vi_: iirc they used 100s of those in tram14:13
DocScrutinizer05not of ^^^ those ;-P14:13
DocScrutinizer05vi_:  looks pretty compatible14:14
vi_It looks like a drop in replacement.14:14
vi_Unfortunatley the datasheet says they are obsolete.14:14
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DocScrutinizer05sounds about right14:16
vi_500hr lifespan14:16
DocScrutinizer05yeah, get a friggin 120614:16
DocScrutinizer05X7R or sth14:16
DocScrutinizer05maybe all those "batteries" were a deadend street in component development14:17
DocScrutinizer05look for supercap or goldcap14:20
DocScrutinizer05those seem to stand a certain lifespan14:20
DocScrutinizer05used everywhere, even in bike lights14:20
vi_meh. I have to work for my job.14:21
* DocScrutinizer05 too would need to deal with headache and absence from job *right* now14:21
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: make a bl-5j-shaped capacitor14:48
DocScrutinizer05kerio: what for? it has 1/10 of the energy of a LiIon like BL-5J *at best*14:48
keriono, make a *good* one!14:49
DocScrutinizer05kerio: send me a machine that turns shit into platinum14:49
keriok, i'll send you one that only works with a bl-5j-shaped capacitor inserted in a slot14:50
jon_yshaped capacitor?14:50
* jon_y needs more shaped charge14:50
kerioDocScrutinizer05: mostly because chemistry sucks14:51
Luke-Jrkerio: upgrade to alchemy!14:53
kerioalchemy can't work14:54
kerioyou can't have equivalent exchange and third law of thermodynamics14:54
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keriooh, Pali is here15:12
kerioPali: this morning my phone was off15:12
kerioleft it charging overnight15:12
keriono messages in syslog15:12
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vi_phew, another week managed convincing my company I know what I am doing.15:43
vi_DocScrutinizer51: Does it get any easier?15:43
DocScrutinizer05probably not15:44
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DocScrutinizer05and I think a constant challenge regarding explaining to others what you do is a benefit for all - including yourself15:47
vi_DocScrutinizer51: I would tend to agree.  Unless you fully understand a thing, you cannot explain it to another person.15:47
DocScrutinizer05I pretty much like and search for that kind of reality check15:48
DocScrutinizer05and I preach it as a mandatory component in rollout of any patches15:49
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Palisee this:
Palisomebody from updated package for n900!15:59
PaliSun Oct 14 201216:00
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kerioPali: what about my charging issue?16:06
Palikerio, which issue?16:06
keriothis morning i found that my phone was off16:07
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keriosolid green light, no messages in syslog regarding a shutdown16:07
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PaliI need syslog16:08
vi_Pali: holy shit, that is incredible!16:09
vi_I know have a modicum of faith that jolla might do something useful.16:09
SkryPali: there are actually quite a lot of updates from jolla people lately to mer etc16:09
Palibut for n900?16:10
Skryn900 too16:10
Skrylike fbdev-sgx which was updated for Xorg 1.1316:10
vi_well I imagine n900 is a convenient test platform.16:10
keriono, nvm, it's cut16:10
vi_cheap, easily available and most of the work is already done.16:11
vi_For the love of god.  In all that is holy I hope they release an n900 follow up.16:11
vi_I can still remember the utter disappointment the morning I read the N9 release stuff.16:12
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Palinothing bad in log16:14
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kerioi know16:15
keriono mention of a shutdown either16:16
keriothe really weird thing is that there was plenty of battery anyway, so even if it stopped charging there's no good reason it should've drained the battery16:16
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SkryI've had that behaviour from time to time since I bought it. I have separate alarm clock I can trust.16:18
Skrysso maybe some moar testing? maybe this was a one time glitch on the universe?16:19
keriothis makes no sense :s16:20
PaliUse systemd module loading to workaround startup race condition16:20
Palifrom @jollamobile.com16:20
PaliThu Nov 1 201216:20
kerioLOL LENNART16:20
vi_what do you mean noooooooooooooooo?16:20
Paliso jolla using systemd16:20
vi_and LART?16:21
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''16:21
vi_Explain to me.16:21
keriolennart poettering16:21
keriothe systemd creator16:21
Skryvi_: the man behind pulseaudio and systemd16:21
keriohe's also guilty of creating pulseaudio16:21
Pali~wiki lennart poettering16:21
vi_I still do not get it.16:21
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox person | name = Lennart Poettering | image = Lennart_Poettering_2012.jpg | alt = | caption = Poettering in 2012 | birth_name = | birth_date = | birth_place = Guatemala City | death_date = | death_place = | nationality = German | other_names = | known_for = Avahi, PulseAudio, systemd | occupation = Software engineer | employer = Red Hat | website = ...16:21
keriovi_: he's a cunt16:21
vi_kerio: Gotcha.16:21
Palihe destroyed udev16:22
Skryno one has destroyed udev16:22
Skryit's there, it can be separately buiild and it's already forked16:23
Pali"this cancer is extremely poettering"16:23
vi_why all the hate oin pulse audio?16:23
Skrybecause it's nonsense?16:24
vi_If it sucks so much ass, why do all the major distros use it?16:24
Skrybecause it integrates16:24
Palibecause lennart16:24
Paliand because bluetooth16:24
vi_but he is a cunt.16:24
vi_I still don't get this.16:24
kerioupstart was already bad enough16:24
Paliupstart is better then systemd16:25
vi_which is worse than sysvinit?16:25
vi_I don't understand any of this stuff anymore.16:25
vi_I am going back under my rock with my debian sarge box.16:25
Skryin short: red had and canonical want you linux to be the new windows. for that they both have developers doing stuff the non-traditional way, not following the traditions, because they feel choice is bad.16:26
Skryso they integrate16:26
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Skrylennart happens to be one of them16:26
Skryand anyone of you there criticising him, and using gnome, redhad, *buntu are hypocrites16:27
DocScrutinizer05couldn't have described it any better16:27
vi_I do not think anyone here uses booto.16:28
infobothmm... buntkuh is ... Redmond, or
DocScrutinizer05now I got one more point to justify my dislike of anything starting with g* as well, thanks16:28
Skryand all in all, it's not about if the software solutions they create are good or not, systemd is awesome in doing what it should, pulseaudio has become quite good. But in the end, they are the wrong path, ethically and technically16:29
Skrysystemd will eat everything on it's way, it already can replace fstab and power management.16:29
jaskathey can pry fstab from my cold dead hands16:30
keriojaska: they will16:30
vi_monolithic control everything daemon?16:30
Skryvi_: yes16:30
vi_sounds terrible.16:30
DocScrutinizer05systemd introduced that "we don't need /usr anymore - after all what it's been worth for anyway? It never really worked" bullsh*t16:30
jaskanext it will be loading ... registry hives.16:30
Skrybad thing is, it's actually very good and I like it :D16:30
jon_yoh, and it'll use binary sql for registry too right?16:30
vi_I thought in unix a program did 1 thing and did it as well as possible.16:30
keriovi_: yeah, but lennart poettering16:31
vi_delete /usr?16:31
vi_how is that even possible?16:31
vi_Where will my programs go?16:31
jon_ythere was a linux distro that tried that16:31
jon_yall that funky /programs instead16:31
kerioheh, gobolinux16:31
jon_yyes that16:32
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jon_yI mean, wtf16:32
vi_ /program_files16:32
jon_ywhy did they even consider it?16:32
DocScrutinizer05vi_: /bin and /sbin move to /usr/(s)bin and /usr is mandatory part of **16:32
jon_ywhy would n00bs be looking at / anyway?16:32
Skryanyways, shit like udev, dbus, udisks are all becoming something that is tailored for systems running systemd, which efficiently leaves us with no device management. udisks2 is already gnome specific, and gnome already depends on systemd16:32
Skryand did I mentioin systemd is already in control of user sessions?16:33
vi_no dbus?16:33
DocScrutinizer05not *yet*16:34
vi_this is getting crazy.16:34
DocScrutinizer05will take another 3 months16:34
vi_How do I script the back end of stuff with no dbus??16:34
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Skryso in the end red hat and canonical want that there are only on linux system. theirs. for now they can satisfy in two, theirs.16:34
DocScrutinizer05vi_: I'm actually amazed it only uses less / $pager to display --help output, not opens a true matchbox X-server to do it completely graphical16:35
Skryread the link i pasted last night if you're interested what's happening16:35
SkryDocScrutinizer05: somebody already suggested to integrate wayland into it :P16:35
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you're sure that's not been me, yesterday?16:36
Skrymight have been :)16:36
DocScrutinizer05well, it never been so true:16:36
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''16:36
DocScrutinizer05~lennart is <reply>Lennart is ~Poettering16:37
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0516:37
Skryanyways, I'm not liking these changes, nor am I against it. We're not on BSD so shit can and should actually change, and it's all about the god damn choice after all.16:38
jon_ySkry: sounds like they are their own bunch of circle jerks16:38
Skrywell, money makes jerks16:39
DocScrutinizer05Skry: I'd tend to agree with you as long as there's actually any choice16:39
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SkryDocScrutinizer05: true, this major push to force systemd to users is all wrong.16:39
DocScrutinizer05for now Suse comes with sysV init as alternative to systemd16:40
DocScrutinizer05I wonder when they'll drop support for sysV init16:40
SkryI have been thinking about moving back to Gentoo, not sure what should I do though16:40
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DocScrutinizer05maybe some private equity fond should buy redhat and ruin it for good16:41
Skrybut yes, I understand systemd can ease alot of maintaining, especially for a small distro. Yes, it does all the shit it does very well and efficiently. But the shit that's taken the whole linux ecosystem is just plain wrong.16:41
DocScrutinizer05Skry: systemd forbids /usr16:42
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: wot?16:42
Skryyes, it resides in /usr/lib16:43
jon_yoh, it needs /usr to run?16:43
vi_green charging led?16:43
vi_what is going on?16:43
Skryeverything is falling apart! :D16:43
keriovi_: with what?16:43
vi_an n900 I have recently taken possesion of, a 2101.16:44
vi_I just plugged it into charge and it has a pulsing green charging led.16:44
vi_Instead of orange.16:44
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jon_yexorcise it with flasher?16:44
keriobroken red LED maybe16:44
DocScrutinizer05vi_: maybe indicator LED defect16:44
vi_jon_y: It is just fresshly fully flashed.16:44
keriootoh i think you can configure mce there16:44
kerioso reflash16:44
vi_DocScrutinizer05: perhaps.16:45
jon_ythe colr green is made of yellow, and something else16:45
DocScrutinizer05vi_: try to manually set indicator led to red16:45
jon_yfor LCDs anyway, not sure about LEDs16:45
vi_was there not an anomaly with the original production run of n900?16:45
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: yellow is green and red16:45
DocScrutinizer05vi_: yep16:45
vi_Ok, now it is orange?16:46
DocScrutinizer05swapped bue and red iirc16:46
vi_this is nuts16:46
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: defective FPC?16:46
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vi_this n900 has so much swag.16:46
DocScrutinizer05flat plastic cable16:46
DocScrutinizer05or flexible plastic connector16:47
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vi_I need to go check.16:47
DocScrutinizer05or flexible PCB cable16:47
keriovi_: have you reflashed it already?16:49
DocScrutinizer05[2012-11-09 15:44:49] <vi_> jon_y: It is just fresshly fully flashed.16:49
keriothen lols16:49
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keriohave you fullresetted it?16:49
DocScrutinizer05sorry, won't help16:49
kerioSc0rpius: are you the cleven and yappari dude?16:50
DocScrutinizer05battery removal though might be needed, since LP5523 is directly connected to VBAT16:50
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DocScrutinizer05there have been cases where LP5523 got confused so much that it needed a battery removal to recover16:51
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vi_this is my stunt n900 anyway.16:53
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vi_It is a total shitter made from spare parts.16:53
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Sc0rpiuskerio, I'm the Yappari guy, no clue what cleven is16:53
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: check LP5523 selftest result16:53
keriomaybe i'm mistaken about that16:53
vi_I have found the culprit.16:54
keriowhen are you going to release a new yappari version? i need the alternate server port to connect to whatsapp while on my uni's wifi network16:54
DocScrutinizer05vi_: ???????????????16:55
DocScrutinizer05famous last words?16:55
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vi_the connector inside the slider that joins the FBC and the LCD was not seated correctly.16:57
vi_Funnily enough, that meant tthe motor did not vibrate at startup.16:58
DocScrutinizer05yeah, defects on that cable have *very* weird side effects16:58
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Sc0rpiuskerio: when I finish it... sadly I don't have too much time for it, I have a job and I can dedicate to Yappari less than 2 hours a week16:58
DocScrutinizer05AV failing being only one of them16:58
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Sc0rpiusI mean more than 2 hours a week16:59
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vi_I have bought like 4 n900 this month.16:59
kerioSc0rpius: but it's a really easy change! :'(16:59
vi_This is by far the worst.16:59
DocScrutinizer05vi_: ooh YOU bouhg thtme all >:-(16:59
vi_kerio: That will work, play on his emotions with a crying smiley face.16:59
vi_DocScrutinizer05: I think I have a problem.17:00
keriovi_: yeah, you have too few n900s17:00
keriobuy some more17:00
vi_kerio: I am looking for 1 more.17:00
vi_Mint condition.17:00
vi_Still with factory screen foil.17:01
keriothe one i bought still had it :D17:01
vi_kerio: My current one had it too.17:01
vi_It is quite remarkable.17:01
DocScrutinizer05vi_: was that problem something new, or an explanation why you're buying all available N900?17:01
keriothis reminds me, i should change the screen protector17:01
vi_It is over 1 year old now but it is still in brilliant condition compared to all the second hand ones I get.17:01
vi_DocScrutinizer05: I need to stop sinking my monies into obsolete hardware.17:02
DocScrutinizer05I got same problem17:02
vi_DocScrutinizer05: My damn motorcycle is ~27 years old.17:02
DocScrutinizer05but then, you have to sink your money somewhere ;-D17:02
vi_lol I dunno, a mortgage?17:03
DocScrutinizer05and there's no worthwhile new hw17:03
vi_It is a concept I have a hard time explaining.17:03
vi_And even understanding to a certain extent.17:03
vi_That is the problem with becoming a connoisseur.17:04
DocScrutinizer05I have the explanation that both me and my N900 feel better in company of other N90017:04
vi_Your demands become harder and harder to fulfil.17:04
vi_Til eventually only $300 XO is as low as you will go.17:04
vi_How do you pull source code from the maemo garage repos?17:05
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vi_For example, I want to modify the behaviour of simple brightness statusbar plugin.17:05
DocScrutinizer05good plan, I had same17:06
vi_Do I just wget the source package or is there a proper way of doing it?17:06
Skryabout the useless but still worthy NEW hardware, this is what I've been waiting for quite some years..
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Change shortpress to screen always on by any chance?17:06
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vi_Skry: amiga...17:07
DocScrutinizer05nah, make longpress only act on release17:07
DocScrutinizer05so it doesn't vamish and create click on random other stuff17:07
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Nice.17:07
Skryvi_: yes17:07
vi_Also, press and hold menus in hildon to the left of the pressure point.17:08
vi_And finally, status menu in task manager screen.17:08
DocScrutinizer05vi_: also pondered adding some "config" options to adjust ALS "gamma"17:08
vi_#cssu-testing, prepare for amatuerish patches.17:08
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Is that even possible?17:09
DocScrutinizer05prolly no simple way17:09
vi_I thought it was controlled by a closed source component.17:09
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Skrybtw is there any up to date list of closed parts of maemo?17:10
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infobotmethinks closed is
SkryI'm having hard time finding anything from *.maemo.org17:10
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DocScrutinizer05~literal closed17:12
infobot"closed" is ""17:12
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Skrythanks guys17:12
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo closed is or
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0517:12
DocScrutinizer05~forget closed17:12
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot closed17:12
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, closed is or
Skrydidn't quite realize the list is _that_ long..17:13
Palijonwil, hi17:14
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Palimy idea it shat systemui actdeating plugin is for ACT DEAD mode17:15
jonwilyes probably17:15
Palie.g, when you connect charger to n900 which is turned off17:15
Paliand I think this plugin handle poweroff17:15
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DocScrutinizer05sure, you need some battery surveilance even in act_dead17:16
keriofuck, i have a tiny bit of dust below my new screen protector17:16
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DocScrutinizer05where no hildon desktop and thus no status applet is running17:17
DocScrutinizer05kerio: bathroom, create lots of fog by rnning the shower on hot temperature17:17
DocScrutinizer05best 'cleanroom' you can get at home17:18
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keriohm, how does that work?17:19
keriowon't there still be dust around?17:19
DocScrutinizer05the fog should wash out all dust from air, and fix it to ground17:19
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DocScrutinizer05sure you got fog drops instead, but those don't matter for your particular purpose17:20
keriohrmpf, i'd have to wash the screen protector with alcohol too17:21
keriowell, with soap and then alcohol17:21
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keriootoh, i've been having a dead ant inside of my laptop's LCD for a long time17:22
kerioso idk if i feel it's worth fixing that speck of dust17:22
Skryprobably not17:23
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PaliWTF?? somebody started working on modest again, see:
DocScrutinizer05kerio: in LCD those aren't usually ants but small flies we call "Gewittertierchen" here17:29
keriohm, maybe17:29
kerioi don't remember17:29
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: you can't fix dust that's already sticking on foil sticky side17:33
kerioDocScrutinizer05: of course you can17:33
keriowash it with soap17:33
keriothen sink in alcohol and let dry17:33
DocScrutinizer05never heard of anybody succeeding with that17:33
kerioi did, with my previous screen protector :)17:34
kerioit doesn't have glue, mind you17:34
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DocScrutinizer05nice, learning sth new today :-)17:34
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, I feel like a tuna sandwich, have to get some aspirin before they hit me with council duties17:37
Skryin addition to earlier talk about things done wrong, from the news: "Matthias Clasen on the behalf of the GNOME Release Team has announced that they have decided to eliminate GNOME's "fallback mode" with the upcoming 3.8 release"17:39
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DocScrutinizer05I'm so happy I never particularly liked gnome17:41
DocScrutinizer05always been waaaay too windowsy for me17:41
DocScrutinizer05I'm too pride to take crap redmond stuff as a design goal to emulate17:44
Skrymm, always disliked it too. then again, I disliked kde4 too at first.17:44
DocScrutinizer05I still dislike kde4 for it's terrible (missing) stability17:45
DocScrutinizer05getting worse with each update17:45
DocScrutinizer05kde3 been awesome17:45
DocScrutinizer05in a sentimantal mood I sometimes ponder rolling back to kde317:46
DocScrutinizer05plasma my ass17:47
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SkryDocScrutinizer05: you might want to check out trinity project then17:47
kerioi should learn how to use xmonad17:47
Skrykde4 been stable for me17:47
Skrykerio: or i3, possibly awesome, both are great17:48
SkryI actually run awesome on my N900 arch install17:48
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Palimaemo wiki not working18:02
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Paliwhen I'm trying to edit page it show: is down18:03
Paliso going too?18:03
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: opening for edit WFM. Did you get this on opening or on saving?18:09
Paliafter click submit18:09
Palidid you tried to save?18:10
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DocScrutinizer05>>User account "Joerg rw" is not registered. Please check if you want to create/edit this page.<< :-/18:10
DocScrutinizer05yep, confirmed18:11
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DocScrutinizer05blows chunks on "save"18:11
DocScrutinizer05X-Fade: PING18:12
DocScrutinizer05X-Fade: I never really understood who's maintainer of wiki18:12
DocScrutinizer05X-Fade: anyway we'd need him *now*18:13
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a: ^^^^18:13
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Palimaybe andre__ has some permissions?18:14
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PaliI'm trying to edit but it still show me error:
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DocScrutinizer05[2012-11-07 22:22:29] <DocScrutinizer05> I guess rotting creeping in meanwhile, otherwise how would they manage to get the whole infra down to its knees til end of December?18:18
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Paliwe need backup of wiki?18:18
Palimeego wiki is down... has somebody backup of it?18:19
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Skrymight be a good idea to start backupping just about everything..18:20
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DocScrutinizer05this has been started resp planned since quite a number of months now18:22
qwazixvi__, ping18:23
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DocScrutinizer05hi qwazix18:23
qwazixhi DocScrutinizer0518:23
DocScrutinizer05don't miss meeting 18:00 UTC!18:23
qwazixof course not18:23
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amospallahi, Im new here, and I think I'll stay for some time18:24
SkryDocScrutinizer05: you have any idea what is going to happen? I mean, there already was talk about losing tmo and such somewhere, not that I believe such thing should happen but anyways, it would be nice to know something.18:24
DocScrutinizer05Skry: eh? you're aware of Hildon Foundation?18:25
SkryDocScrutinizer05: yeah, I'm not aware what has been planned or what is happening though18:26
DocScrutinizer05H-F aka "the board" is all about handing over all maemo infra from Nokia/Nemein to "community"18:26
DocScrutinizer05it seems for everything but tmo things are pretty clear and on their path18:27
DocScrutinizer05tmo is a bit special since it's not hosted nor owned by Nokia/Nemein18:27
DocScrutinizer05actually tmo is still a sub-forum of internettablettalk.com18:28
Skryah, ok, thanks. many seem to expect some sort of trouble from this transition so I just had to ask.18:28
DocScrutinizer05run by reggie iirc18:28
DocScrutinizer05I expect trouble but hope for the best ;-D18:29
vi__qwazix: poong18:29
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qwazixvi__, if you make a dbus script that runs when the powerbutton is pressed, checks if the screen is on and sends the unlock dbus command, you have double click to unlock18:30
qwazixI did it accidentally when coding an app18:30
vi__how do I intercept and act on this dbus script?18:31
SkryDocScrutinizer05: same here :) btw congrats for your place in council, I kinda wished you'd get elected :)18:31
qwazixI was writing qt, but I assume that it can be done with dbus-scripts package18:31
qwazixDon't think you have to intercept it or something18:32
vi__dbus-scripts is a battery eater.18:32
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: I kinda wish I wasn't elected - which actually I'm not right now. But then there was no election at all, so...18:32
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qwazixbummer. Didn't know tht18:32
infobotqwazix meant: bummer. Didn't know that18:32
vi__it causes ~1500 wakeups/30s18:33
DocScrutinizer05vi__: how's dbus-scripts eating battery?18:33
DocScrutinizer05not here (1500 wakeups)18:34
vi__however, shortcutd could be modified to listen for power button.18:34
vi__DocScrutinizer05: No?18:34
DocScrutinizer05I'm running dbus-scripting on my device since >2 years now18:34
vi__well, I have not checked it out for 1 year.18:34
DocScrutinizer05should've noticed any sich behaviour18:34
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: you get ~3mA offline idle current?18:35
DocScrutinizer05  774 ?        Ss     1:03 /usr/sbin/dbus-scripts --system18:35
qwazixdunno if it's relevant but in fact I expected more battery life when I had dbus scripts keep wifi and 3g mutually exclusively on18:36
vi__maybe I should check it out again.18:36
vi__qwazix: I just use 2G all the time !18:36
kerioi don't have 2G :(18:37
qwazixI don't use the N900 as a phone. So if I have wifi, any cellular is useless18:37
qwazixso I turn it off18:37
DocScrutinizer05powertop not showing any noteworthy details around dbus-scripts18:39
DocScrutinizer05also CPU time ratio between dbus-scripts and dbus-daemon (18:12) doesn't make me ponder to blame scripts of anything18:40
DocScrutinizer05  758 ?        S<s   18:12 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork18:41
DocScrutinizer05  774 ?        Ss     1:03 /usr/sbin/dbus-scripts --system18:41
vi__qwazix: but the phone is the only aspect that makes the n900 worth while!18:42
ZogG_laptopqwazix: hey18:42
qwazixZogG_laptop, hey18:42
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: mazal tov on being council. do you fell you have bigger balls18:43
qwazixvi__, I prefer harmattan or symbian for phone functions...18:43
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: try running pwertop in offline mode and comparing it with results of offline mode+dbus-scripts stopped.18:43
DocScrutinizer05I suffer from a big hurting head18:43
ZogG_laptopqwazix: btw i was surprised good that u is council too :P18:43
vi__qwazix: symbian I can understand.18:43
qwazixZogG_laptop, thanks, I'd like to help as much as possible18:44
DocScrutinizer05vi__: I don't think 20h of IRC via WLAN in standby mode are any good argument to start investigations on dbus-scripts18:45
vi__qwazix: what is going to happen to the maemo repos when nokia pulls the plug?18:45
vi__DocScrutinizer05: ok.18:45
ZogG_laptopqwazix: i know that's why i was glad18:45
DocScrutinizer05vi__: and actually, how should dbus-scripts cause such cpu hogging? after all it's just waiting for dbus msgs like every other dbus user18:46
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qwazixvi__, not that the N900 is a bad phone, but I tend to break it (software) from time to time, or end up without battery, so I want a second phone. Bout the repos I hope that we manage the transition flawlessly, but till now I know prolly not much more than you, waiting for the meeting to get briefed better.18:47
DocScrutinizer05if of course you'd be silly enough to trigger a dbus msg/signal in a dbus-script that gets triggered by that dbus msg/signal....18:47
DocScrutinizer05vi__: I once made the mistake to place a shellscript into /etc/dbus-scripts.d/*18:49
DocScrutinizer05which did more damage than only a few wakeups18:49
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DocScrutinizer05it was a veritable forkbomb18:49
andre__Pali, I can protect pages by setting Edit to "Allow all users" | "Block new and unregistered users" | "Admins only"18:50
andre__but Fremantle_closed_packages says "Allow all users"18:50
DocScrutinizer05andre__: who's asmin on that wiki box?18:50
andre__(and I'd love to share permissions, by the way, but have no idea how)18:50
andre__DocScrutinizer05, I don't know18:51
andre__uh yay18:51
andre__I just see that I am member of the group "Administrators".18:51
andre__so let me find out how to make more people admins, after I've bought milk for breakfast.18:51
DocScrutinizer05andre__: ff18:51
kerioqwazix: just buy another n900 to be a backup :D18:51
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Paliandre__, see:
vi___267 nicks!!! HOLY SHIT.18:54
vi___how do I add a user to the sudoers file?18:54
vi___I have to restart X?18:55
qwazixkerio, I prefer the combination N9+N900 best of both worlds18:55
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: add file to /etc/sudoers.d/*, then run update-sudoers19:01
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: ooooh, a N9 user in council. Much appreciated :-)19:02
* Lava_Croft high fives qwazix 19:02
Lava_CroftVery correct!19:02
DocScrutinizer05vi_: do *NOT* edit /etc/sudoers !19:05
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qwazixDocScrutinizer05, Lava_Croft, thanks, I hadn't realized it's such a rare thing to be a N9 user19:08
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kerioof course it's a rare thing19:08
kerioharmattan sucks19:08
DocScrutinizer05not a rare thing, but nevertheless welcome in council19:08
* kerio flees19:08
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qwazixDocScrutinizer05, glad to be here, I'd say welcome to you too but it feels inappropriate considering the years you have been contributing19:10
DocScrutinizer05hah, nevermind19:10
keriobtw, what was the deal with E*_ and the last council?19:11
DocScrutinizer05hmm? you're kidding?19:11
kerioi wasn't following the community during that period19:11
* NIN101 neither19:11
kerioi only had my old n900 with the broken usb port as my only phone, so i couldn't actually dick around with it19:12
andre__Manage user groups: Enter a username: andre19:12
andre__=>There is no user by the name "andre". Check your spelling.19:12
andre__this is all broken.19:12
keriowhich wiki engine is it anyway? mediawiki?19:12
andre__MediaWiki, yeah19:12
Pali is down too19:13
DocScrutinizer05andre__: the error suggests there's more to fix than mere wiki-internal admin, needs root I'd guess19:13
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andre__DocScrutinizer05, sounds like19:13
Paliwe should immediately backup
Paliwhat will be next?19:14
vi__kerio: estel used to be cool.19:14
andre__MediaWiki 1.15.5-2squeeze4. Now that's ancient.19:14
vi__kerio: Then he turned into a total d-bag.19:14
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Paliharmattan is down, meego wiki is down, maemo wiki not working correctly, ...19:15
vi__kerio: Now he goes out of his way to spoil everything for everyone.19:15
ZogG_laptopPali: the world is falling apart19:15
vi__Pali: is this the end?19:15
Paliend of harmattan of cource19:15
Paliand maybe end of maemo too19:16
kerio9/11 NEVAR FORGET19:16
DocScrutinizer05[2012-11-07 22:22:29] <DocScrutinizer05> I guess rotting creeping in meanwhile, otherwise how would they manage to get the whole infra down to its knees til end of December?19:16
vi__Pali: are the fremantle repos down?19:16
Palinot yet19:16
vi__fucking hell.19:16
vi__How do I mirror them??19:16
Palifremantle is working19:16
keriovi__: merlin1991 has a mirror19:17
DocScrutinizer05vi__: the repos are secured19:17
Paliwe have fremantle backup19:17
vi__im freakin' out here man.19:17
vi__if the repos went down...19:17
kerioif you have a N900 you're still safe, if you have a N700 or a N8x0 buy a N90019:17
vi__well that would be it.19:18
keriovi__: merlin has a light extras-devel repo19:18
DocScrutinizer05oooh, indeed. What about my N810s19:18
kerioIT IS GOOD19:18
Palidiablo and older are backup too19:18
vi__kerio: does it have gsm?19:19
Palibut we need to backup FWs:
keriovi__: you only said dual SD and dpad19:19
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I got a "mirror" of those19:19
DocScrutinizer05*-last at least19:19
vi__Pali: I assumed we all had our private stash of those.19:19
vi__what channel is council meeting?19:20
keriovi__: i've got PR1.3 global combined and PR1.3 vanilla19:20
PaliDocScrutinizer05, everything from tablets-dev?19:20
DocScrutinizer05Pali: everything latest19:21
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vi__I was a loyal customer for years.19:21
DocScrutinizer05please stop panic mode!19:21
vi__dont panic!19:21
vi__DONT PANIC||19:21
kerioi seriously want an openpandora :(19:25
keriowesnoth is really slow on the n90019:25
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vi___what is the best way to pull source code from maemo garage?20:06
vi___Pali: ping20:07
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Luke-Jrhmm, any reason these dual battery hacks wouldn't work with genuine Nokia batteries, now that the ones they used are gone?20:31
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ShadowJKno reason20:34
ShadowJKThey just used the highest proven capacity batteries20:35
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kerioShadowJK: btw, what's the best BL-5J as of now?20:36
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kolpPolarcell, afaik20:37
ShadowJKcheck dr_frost's thread on tmo20:37
vi___Luke-Jr: Polar cell is still available.20:38
Luke-Jrvi___: in the US?20:38
vi___The one I have is 1493mAh.20:38
vi___Luke-Jr: Sorry, it is in germany.20:38
vi___There are still 'blue' scuds on alieexpress.20:39
Luke-Jrblue = good ones?20:39
vi___That claim to be the 1420mAh (1500mAh).20:39
vi___Luke-Jr: Blue scuds where the original 'holy fuck this battery is insane' battery.20:39
vi___As it is from china, they will offer VERY cheap shipping to the US,20:40
vi___However, as with anything from china, it is a gamble as to what you actually get.20:40
vi___In addition to that...20:40
vi___You need to think BIGGER.20:40
vi___Why join a 1500mAh to a 1500mAh when you can joi a 1500mAh to 1900mAh?20:41
vi___Luke-Jr: Nokia make a battery called the bp-4l.20:41
vi___It was used in the n8x0 series.20:41
vi___After market bp-4l goes up to 1900 mAh (see mugen).20:42
vi___a bp-4l will fit in the space of a mugen cover.20:42
vi___ya follow?20:42
Luke-JrI think so.20:42
vi___of course no one has done it before.20:42
Luke-Jrdoes it still leave me room to include a payment tag inside? :P20:42
vi___That means you must be the first.20:42
vi___You know, for science n' shit.20:42
Luke-Jrwell, I'm no electronics expert… I thought mixing different kind of batteries is asking for trouble/20:43
vi___Luke-Jr: possibly, how big is this payment tag?20:43
vi___Luke-Jr: Yes, however these are 2 cells of the same chemistry in parallell.20:43
vi___oops wrong xterm20:44
Luke-Jrvi___: 1 inch by 2 inches20:44
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kerioyeah but how will charging work20:44
Luke-Jrvi___: I had it fit under the stock battery before20:44
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Luke-Jrvi___: metric sucks.20:44
vi___Luke-Jr: how fat is it?20:44
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vi___you know only 3 countries still use imperial.20:45
Luke-Jrthin enough it fit between the stock battery and stock cover20:45
Luke-Jrvi___: I use tonal, but I don't expect you to understand that :P20:45
vi___and burma.20:45
Luke-Jrvi___: not a single country has adopted metric FREELY20:45
vi___wherever the bumfuck that is.20:45
vi___Metric rules.20:45
Luke-Jr5x2.5x1 mm20:45
Luke-Jrsorry, decimal sucks20:46
vi___There is literally no reason to ever use imperial.20:46
vi___decimal sucks??????20:46
ShadowJKThe mugen BP-4L is about 1200mAh. :)20:46
vi___this is nuts, next you will say octal 4 life.20:46
Luke-Jr5x3 tonal metertons ;)20:46
Luke-Jrvi___: tonal20:46
vi___ShadowJK: then perhaps i meant a different one.20:46
vi___so 1mm deep.20:47
ShadowJKvi___, no it says "1800" on it, iirc, but it's not20:47
Luke-Jrafter tonal, dozenal20:47
keriovi___: to be fair, mks sucks20:47
vi___ShadowJK: Well thats lame.20:47
Luke-Jrinches are approximately the dozenal zenigrafut unit20:47
Luke-Jrso at least somewhat reasonable20:47
vi___however the nokia one is now 1650 I believe.20:47
vi___Well I like to measure stuff in cubits and rods.20:48
vi___Deal with it.20:48
ShadowJKA Pisen BP-4L I got from dealextreme measured up at around 1400-150020:48
Luke-Jrbase 5*2 < base 3*2*2 < base 2*2*2*220:48
vi___the blue scud is 6.5mm deep20:48
keriovi___: let's use planck units20:48
vi___the original bl-5j is ~5mm deep.20:49
vi___the bp-4l is ~4.5mm deep.20:49
vi___So assuming a person can stack 2x scuds in a mugen cover (13mm) one can assume you could fit a scud+bp-4l+tag(12mm)20:50
vi___However these measurements are from memory so you would need to check.20:50
vi___except for the scud, it is definatley 6.5m.20:51
Palivi___, pong20:51
vi___However if you peeled of the lavel you might save 0.5mm20:51
vi___hello pali.20:51
vi___I am trying to complile something.20:52
Paliyou want to backup garage project?20:52
vi___actually I want to know what the appropriate way to download source code from maemo garage is.20:52
vi___surely I do not have to wget it?20:52
vi___The manually wget all the dependent headers and manually copy them somewhere?20:53
Paliopen project page and clone it git repository20:54
vi___how do I do that?20:54
Palilook at kernel-power:
Palithere is button SCM20:55
Paliand here are instruction how to clone git repo20:55
Paligit clone
vi___I cannot find simple brightness applet20:58
vi___ git clone
vi___Initialize sbrightapplet/.git21:00
vi___Initialized empty Git repository in /home/paul/SBA/sbrightapplet/.git/21:00
vi___error: error setting certificate verify locations:21:00
vi___  CAfile: /usr/share/curl/curl-ca-bundle.crt21:00
vi___  CApath: none21:00
vi___warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.21:00
vi___so dont use https21:01
vi___use http21:01
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vi___Pali: This was not created using autotools21:01
vi___it has ''21:01
vi___and ''21:02
Palidpkg-buildpackage -b -rfakeroot21:02
vi___Please add the files codeset.m4 gettext.m4 glibc21.m4 iconv.m4 isc-posix.m4 lcmessage.m4 progtest.m421:02
vi___from the /aclocal directory to your autoconf macro directory21:02
vi___or directly to your aclocal.m4 file.21:03
vi___You will also need config.guess and config.sub, which you can get from21:03
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vi___Pali: what is libiphb0 do you know?21:08
vi___The whole dependency tree seems to be broken due to it not existing.21:08
Palilibiphb0 is library for ip heartback daemon21:08
Paliit is in nokia binaries repository21:08
vi___how do I get it?21:09
Paliit is automatically installed21:09
Paliin scratchbox21:09
Palimake sure you are compiling for armel target21:09
Pali(no idea if library is also available for i386)21:09
vi___possibly not.21:09
vi___If I compile for the armel, can I still test it on my PC?21:10
vi___or do I have to upload it to an n900?21:10
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vi___apt-get install automake1.1021:11
vi___dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: automake1.1021:11
vi___^how to fix this?21:11
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vi___Pali: what package provides automake?21:13
Paliautomake or automaken21:13
Palibut automake is part of scratchbox21:13
Palido you really has correct scratchbox installation?21:14
vi___Pali: I am starting to question that.21:14
vi___I followed the wiki :/21:14
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vi___Pali: according to apt-cache ther is automake 1.4-1.1021:15
vi___Pali: according to apt-cache ther is automake 1.4-1.921:15
vi___there is no automake 1.1021:15
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Paliuse 1.4-1.1021:17
vi___I meant there is versions 1.4 through to 1.921:18
vi___There is no 1.1021:18
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fastlanewhats up ppl21:41
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merlin1991vi___: 1.10 is in extras-devel21:48
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freemangordonmerlin1991: yeah, I told him that21:49
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vi___merlin1991: It would appear so.21:52
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vi___extras is down?21:55
vi___unresolvable ip22:01
merlin1991resolves here22:01
merlin1991vi___: alternatively use
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keriomerlin1991: or the light mirror22:14
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vi__UGH whhy did qwerty12 make this so normal person could compile it?22:21
vi__vengence from beyond the grave.22:21
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freemangordonthe fuck, I cannot link alarm UI against /usr/bin/systemui22:32
freemangordonlinker cannot find the functions22:33
freemangordonany hint?22:33
freemangordonmerlin1991, Pali ^^^22:33
Paliwhat is problem?22:34
Palican you write error message?22:34
Pali/usr/bin/systemui --> this is ELF binary22:34
keriofreemangordon: which alarm ui?22:34
Paliyou cannot link any library against ELF executable22:34
freemangordonand it has the functions I need exported22:34
freemangordonPali: it exports some functions22:35
freemangordonand yes, you can link agains executable, see modest plugins for example22:35
Palifreemangordon, you cannot link library against executable22:36
Palibut if that executable loading your library22:36
Palithen you can use that function with some hacks22:37
Palibut first I need to see error message22:37
freemangordon"/home/maemo/workspace/systemuiplugin_alarm_dialog/src/osso-systemui-alarm.c:99: undefined reference to `nsv_sv_shutdown'"22:37
freemangordonand i have -l:/usr/bin/systemui22:38
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freemangordonPali: wait, I need another lib, lets see what will happen when I add it22:40
Paliagain, you cannot link your library against executable22:40
freemangordon"/home/maemo/workspace/systemuiplugin_alarm_dialog/src/osso-systemui-alarm.c:343: undefined reference to `remove_handler'"22:41
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freemangordonremove_handler is exported by /usr/bin/systemui22:41
Paliif you want to use some function from that executable, then it should be possible automatically (if symbols are exported)22:41
freemangordonyep, they are22:41
Paliand who wrote that error message?22:41
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freemangordonthe linker22:42
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freemangordonwell, gcc on link pass22:42
Palithen you are not building shred library22:42
freemangordonI am22:42
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freemangordon"arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -shared  .libs/libosso_systemui_alarm_la-osso-systemui-alarm.o  /usr/lib/ -L/usr/lib -lX11 -lalarm -lnotify -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lpthread -lhildon-1 -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 /usr/lib/ /usr/lib/ -lpangoft2-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 /usr/lib/ -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so22:42
freemangordon/usr/lib/ /usr/lib/ -l:/usr/bin/systemui -ltime -lhildon-plugins-notify-sv  -Wl,-z -Wl,defs -Wl,-soname -Wl, -o .libs/"22:42
Palinot, because when building shared libraries symbols  are not dereferenced22:43
freemangordonarm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -shared22:43
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freemangordonhmm, maybe I should pass -rdynamic?22:43
PaliI will look how mce building modules22:43
freemangordonyeah, mce is another good example22:44
freemangordonmerlin1991: would you create "osso-systemui-alarm" on gitorious?22:45
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Palibut I think that gcc -shared -fPIC -llib1 -llib2 -llib3 source.c -o should work22:45
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freemangordonhmm, -fPIC is missing, lets try with it22:45
freemangordonPali: no, didn;t help22:46
Palifreemangordon, push code, I can try to fix it22:47
freemangordonPali: ok22:47
Palifreemangordon, did you fixed it?23:00
freemangordonno, I am struggling with git :D23:01
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Palibtw, why are you using autotools?23:04
freemangordonhmm, why not?23:05
Palibecause is slow?23:05
Paliand buggy?23:05
freemangordonyou mean a simple AMkefile?23:05
Palisimple Makefile23:05
freemangordonwell, I am just reusing that, from vkbrenderer and such23:05
freemangordonI am foucuding on source code ;)23:06
DocScrutinizer05anybody knows if mentalist traceur has a irc nick/account?23:09
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user_what is the fastest way to clone 2 n900s?23:19
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ds3swap NAND and eMMC chips23:20
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infobotbackupmenu is, like,
internetishardCan you make some recommendations on how to speed up my slow & unresponsive n900?
DocScrutinizer05internetishard: reflash a clean new system23:21
DocScrutinizer05you'll be amazed about speedup23:21
vi_just installing backupmenu is a chore on a fresh, stock system.23:22
DocScrutinizer05is it?23:22
freemangordonPali: are you going to look at that now?23:22
Paliit compiling fine23:23
freemangordonok, thanks23:23
Paliwithout any hell link autotools23:23
freemangordonbut won;t link23:23
Paliit link23:23
Palibut not using autotools23:23
freemangordonwhat compiler otions?23:23
Paligcc -shared source.c -o <+included>23:24
PaliI do not understand why somebody using some autotools...23:24
PaliI will write full command line args with all libraries23:24
DocScrutinizer05autotools, da hell23:24
vi_how best to lubricate the slider?23:24
freemangordonPali: wait, there is an error in src/Makefile.am23:24
DocScrutinizer05vi_: pencil23:25
PaliI do not want to see any autosometing23:25
freemangordonwel, ok, fix it on gitorious23:25
DocScrutinizer05vi_: soft pencil23:25
DocScrutinizer05vi_: don't forget to first clean off all sticky rubbish23:26
internetishardDocScrutinizer: I just did - but then I restored the apps...23:27
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DocScrutinizer05internetishard: ls -l /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db*23:30
Paligcc osso-systemui-alarm.c `pkg-config --libs --cflags hildon-1 gconf-2.0 alarm libnotify gtk+-2.0 dbus-1 glib-2.0` -pthread -ltime -lm -lhildon-plugins-notify-sv -L/usr/lib/hildon-desktop -shared -o -Wl,-soname -Wl, -Wl,-rpath -Wl,/usr/lib/hildon-desktop23:30
Palifreemangordon ^^^^23:30
DocScrutinizer05internetishard: also get rid of greedy nonsensical desktop widgets23:30
Paliit will create same ELF library with same entires23:30
Palifreemangordon, can I remove that autotools and fix compiling?23:32
freemangordonPali: of course23:32
freemangordonbut the command you pasted fails here23:32
freemangordonwait, it does not23:33
freemangordonit compiles ok23:33
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freemangordonPali: in the meanwhile I will check if that works at all :D23:37
internetishardDocScrutinizer: I finally deleted el-v1.db because this phone message program doesn't know how to manage a db with limited resources23:40
Palifreemangordon, ok23:40
Paliand one note: more source files has executable permission, why?23:40
internetishardIt's the same for the email app too - it won't display any emails before the network responds with new messages or not (which isn't good logic)23:40
DocScrutinizer05can't argue abut any of your points23:41
internetishardIt's not so easy to just use an alternative app either23:42
internetisharddue to integration, mostly, I guess23:42
DocScrutinizer05I'm not really using email on N900 (too small screen for my type of emails), and my el-v1.db is some 600k23:42
vi____internetishard: Do you use gmail?23:42
internetishardI do23:43
internetishardDocScrutinizer it's like 600k to begin with!23:43
vi____archive all mails >6months old.23:43
internetishardMine was 25megs before I deleted it23:43
internetishardI don't use the archive feature23:43
vi____INstant modest speed boost.23:43
vi____internetishard: It is really good.23:43
internetishardmodest doesn't have good gmail integration it seems23:44
vi____internetishard: ???23:44
vi____it supports gmail folders.23:44
internetishardI can't actually search through all emails in my gmail23:44
vi____modest can search??23:44
internetishardAlso, if I send it on my phone it isn't in gmail sent23:44
DocScrutinizer05there's an archive feature in messaging?23:44
internetishardmodest can search what it has, but it can't search more than a few hundred emails ago23:44
vi____internetishard: You are using imap right?23:44
vi____well, my saved drafts/sent mails end up in my gmail.23:45
vi____DocScrutinizer05: There ia an archive feature in gmail.23:45
internetishardincoming:, outgoing:
vi____all your email is still there, just not in your inbox.23:45
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internetishardhow to your saved and send end up in gmail?23:46
vi____This stops modest fetching and storing 10,000 messages.23:46
internetishardI'd actually like it to fetch everything - but if it doesn't I'd like it to be able to search through everything in gmail23:46
internetishardand then fetch it, so I don't have to open a browser on the n900 to find it23:46
vi____internetishard: the sent email ends up in the 'imap sent folder'23:46
vi____internetishard: me too.23:46
vi____however modest just does not have the guts.23:47
internetishardwhere's the imap sent folder?23:47
vi____So use the gmail web interface.23:47
vi____for heavy lifting.23:47
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vi____internetishard: on gmail web interface, on left side in folder tree somewhere.23:47
DocScrutinizer05honestly modest is really kinda rudimentary app, I'd rather use webmail than modest any time23:48
DocScrutinizer05maybe keep modest for notification purposes on new mails23:48
DocScrutinizer05but nothing beyond23:48
internetishardI don't see that anywhere23:48
vi____it is good for quickly checking inbox.23:49
internetishardIf a webapp can do it, shouldn't a native app be able to?23:49
DocScrutinizer05able?` yes. Actually does? hardly23:49
vi____because nae cunt has written it.23:49
internetishardbad ass, remembering23:50
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vi____internetishard: you can use the gmail touch interface,23:51
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vi____or gmail iphone interface.23:54
vi____or if you feel really brutal, you can use claws mail.23:54
vi____will an aluminium case make my n900 gsm reception really suck?23:57
internetishardDoesn't it already :P23:57
vi____n900 gets good gsm reception.23:57
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