IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-10-28

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* DocScrutinizer05 suspects some minor lost-in-translation problem. I never get the catch of US-residents answering "Wonderful, marvelous!" when asking them how they are or what they think of this new stuff. Same way you seem to have another definition of hate than me, probably what you call hateworthy I'd call "I'd like to kill..."00:02
DocScrutinizer05on such quantitative scales from disgust to adore, from love to hate, from brilliant to silly, you always ahve to apply a multiplier factor as well as an offset to match any two person's personal nomenclature00:06
DocScrutinizer05e.g. in china there's only "yes", they never answer "no" to any question for some favour or if they think something is OK. You have to apply quite some offset to the common range from no over maybe to yes, to match that scale to chinese yes1 to yes3000:08
DocScrutinizer05discussing if somebody can or can't hate a software seems rather futile in a multicultural multinational IRC channel00:10
DocScrutinizer05what's not futile though is to ponder whether you better try to adopt your peer's dictionary or make hin adopt yours00:11
SkryMs. always (=daily) tells me I'm the coldest bastard she ever knew, then again, I personally think I'm usually unusually over-emotional sissy. Been trying to explain I'm nothing like she is, discussion does not go anywhere. Women.00:12
Skrypoint of views, gotta love em00:12
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SkryI've long since stopped minding what people say or so, most of "them" miss the big picture completely so I can't possibly relate to anything they have to offer.00:18
Skryor something like that00:18
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: well, this one here been a usual boring linux vs windows flamewar, happening not entirely on accident, but suddenly turning into something philosophical (or almost at least)00:22
SkryMm-m, just the kind of pointless jargon I try to keep away from :)00:24
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Skryofc it's good to some argumentation from time to time, if it does not get out of hand so to speak00:25
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05: very much likely :)00:26
Lava_CroftI think Luke-Jr said it earlier00:26
Luke-Jranyone know how to measure USB hub power (amps?) with a multimeter?00:31
ccssnetinline; black cable of multi meter to the power source, red wire to the device to be powered. i think...00:36
Skryyou own a multimeter, so you must know what it is, and you know what power amps are so you should know already?00:36
Luke-JrSkry: I barely know what it is :O00:37
Luke-Jrccssnet: I don't want to power a device right now, just find out how much is available00:37
ccssnettheres no sticker?00:38
ccssnetor manual00:38
Luke-Jrccssnet: lol00:38
Luke-Jrno, USB hubs provide NO info -.-00:38
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: 'you can't'00:38
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: when did I say some USB hub keeps discharging N900?00:38
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: it's complex, and can't be measured simok00:38
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: you mean a powered hub?00:39
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: there's no sane and simple way to find out how much power is available00:40
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: a while ago00:40
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: yes00:40
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: ...since you only could tell from device ceasing to provide power00:40
Luke-Jrwhat if I short it?00:40
SpeedEvilthat will generally not tll you much00:40
ccssnetshort what? your power supply?00:40
ccssnetgeneral rule... never cross the 5v+ and 12v+00:41
Luke-Jrwould a 60 W lightbulb tell me anything? :/00:41
SpeedEvilread the label on the hub power supply00:41
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: there is no label00:41
Luke-Jroh that00:41
ccssnetor any other +rail such as 3.3v00:41
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: hardly I could've stated about some hub's properties, since I don't own more than 2 USB hubs, so couldn't tell anything about the 109732983210876 other models out there00:41
Luke-Jrthat's combined, not per port00:41
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: from the N900 script00:41
ShadowJKLuke-Jr; i think the only useful method would be to have a a vriable load, a current meter, and a volt meter. You slowly increase the load while observing current and volt meter.00:42
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: the 'right' way is to ...00:42
ShadowJKI imagine one of two things will happen00:42
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: bq27200 values are absolute and correct00:42
SpeedEviland measure the point at which it hits 4.5v00:42
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: despite always telling me time-to-empty, it seems to charge00:43
DocScrutinizer05that's impossible00:43
ShadowJKOption a) at some point, the current meter drops to almost 0 all of the sudden. Option b) at some point voltage starts declining. in both cases onset of the event is your limit.00:43
SpeedEvilShadowJK: c) fire00:44
ShadowJKYah I forgot fire00:44
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: multimeters can do that or no? :/00:46
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: look at to get an idea what the values look like00:46
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: no00:46
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: you are trying to measure how much load a matchbox can take.00:47
Luke-Jrbah, looks like I don't have a working multimeter anyway00:47
SpeedEvilstamping it flat does not tell you much00:47
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: obviously negative 'mA' values mean 'discharge', as does TTE != 6553500:48
SpeedEvilyou need to slowly apply load00:48
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: I don't have a log like that tho00:49
DocScrutinizer05that's not my fault00:49
Luke-Jris it one of the mA shown by bq27k-detail2 ?00:50
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: also note that these values are current to battery, not current from USB00:50
SpeedEvilthere is no way to measure current from USB00:51
DocScrutinizer05yes, the first one00:51
SpeedEvilit can only be guessed00:51
DocScrutinizer05or derived00:51
Luke-Jr0x0D - 0x0C:  6823   NAC Nominal Available Capacity High - Low Byte   3.57 µVh (1)    R00:51
Luke-Jr                    *3.57 / 20 =  1221 mAh00:51
DocScrutinizer05from a pair of values of current to battery from bq27200, while switching off charging in between the readouts and keeping system load as constant as possible00:52
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: that's not exactly what you want00:53
DocScrutinizer05it also is not 'mA' but 'mAh'00:53
Luke-Jr0x15 - 0x14:   885    AI Average Current High - Low Byte               3.57 µV (1)    R00:53
Luke-Jr                    *3.57 / 20 =  158 mA00:53
DocScrutinizer05yeah, probably that one00:54
Luke-Jrbut 0x17 - 0x16:   463   TTE Time-to-Empty High - Low Byte                   Minutes      R00:54
DocScrutinizer05sometimes there might be inconsistencies due to sequential readout or whatever00:55
DocScrutinizer05I told you to use 500:55
DocScrutinizer05after all a oneshot readout doesn't tell you much anyway00:56
DocScrutinizer05since those values may change rapidly, some of them00:56
DocScrutinizer05you need to do some averaging on your own00:56
DocScrutinizer05see e.g first 2 log lines in
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DocScrutinizer05the device been meant to charge at that point in time00:58
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: I don't notice any change in 5 output when I unplug it :/01:00
DocScrutinizer05actually sign of current is generic, from some of the flags in a status register01:00
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DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: (no change on unplug) which would strongly suggest that it didn't charge when it been plugged in01:01
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: but I've been charging it this way for a week now…01:01
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Luke-Jrand the battery's full……….. oh01:01
Luke-JrI bet BME isn't charging it because it's full -.-01:01
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: the charger chip stops charging when battery full, and resumes when battery depleted to ~80%01:02
Luke-Jrguess I have to leave it unplugged for a few hours01:02
* Luke-Jr epic fail01:02
DocScrutinizer05this isn't bme doing this, this is bq24150 native behaviour01:02
DocScrutinizer05bme turns this into one of either constant floating at 4180mV, or 30s recharge cycles every 240s01:03
Luke-Jrany way to easily lock the screen on so it discharges faster? <.<01:04
SpeedEvilsettings, display01:04
DocScrutinizer05err, I'm doing this by easy brightness applet01:04
SpeedEviloh, yeah01:04
DocScrutinizer05or was it 'simple'?01:05
Luke-Jrbah, I have to pick it up to do that :P01:05
Luke-JrSettings->Display only lets me go up to 2 mins01:06
DocScrutinizer05xchat has an option as well01:06
SpeedEvilor play a movie in a loop01:06
DocScrutinizer05better idea01:07
Luke-Jrmy gentoo partition needs manual fsck :<01:07
Luke-JrI don't think it's ever survived that before01:07
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: what's your problem?01:07
DocScrutinizer05re battery and charging01:08
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: I don't trust USB hubs/chargers to work as advertised01:08
DocScrutinizer05there's usually a faster and more direct way to find out about stuff01:08
Luke-Jrplus, most don't even advertise useful info01:08
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: I'd like to know my N900 is charging as fast as possible, and that it won't make my RPi unstable01:09
DocScrutinizer05you got sysfs nodes for VBUS and D+- short01:09
SpeedEvilin general, measure voltage on USB01:09
Luke-Jrisn't it amps that matters?01:10
SpeedEvilif it's dropping under 4.5, you're overloading01:10
SpeedEvilyes, but you can't measure that01:10
Luke-Jrfor all I know, N900 could be using 100mA to avoid overloading01:10
* DocScrutinizer05 figures the guy probing Amperes of mains outlet with a multimeter01:11
DocScrutinizer05he was very upset why the multimeter exploded and tripped the fuse01:11
SpeedEvilLuke-Jr: lsusb -v will tell you the configured current - on the PC side01:12
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: well, those 100mA are what bme is supposed to do, on deaf hosts or fastchargers without D+- short01:12
SpeedEvilwait, you have this plugged into a raspberry pi?01:12
Luke-JrSpeedEvil: that's the plan01:12
SpeedEvilthrough a powered hub?01:13
Luke-Jrwell, RPi says no PC connectivity allowed, so plan there was just hte wall charger :p01:13
SpeedEvilI was meaning plugging a n900 into a r-pi USB port01:14
Luke-Jroh, no01:14
Luke-Jrtwo separate concerns01:14
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Luke-JrI want to charge both N900 and run RPi off a wall charger01:14
DocScrutinizer05then the wallcharger should provide 2A or more01:15
Luke-Jrthe one I have is supposedly 2A total across 4 ports01:15
Luke-Jrbut I want to be sure I'm getting the full 1A at each port, if I use two01:15
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DocScrutinizer05I'd simply assume that01:15
Luke-Jrdon't a lot of wall chargers limit to 500mA per port?01:16
DocScrutinizer05they won't put cruft birdseed on the wallcharger PCB just to mess things up01:16
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DocScrutinizer05nope, that's why those are wallchargers01:16
DocScrutinizer05they can do more than 50001:16
Luke-Jr2A total / 4 ports = 500 mA per port if all ports used01:16
Luke-Jrso it was clearly designed to only do 500 mA per port under normal use01:17
DocScrutinizer05but the wallcharger won't implement some circuitry to enforce that01:17
DocScrutinizer05if you don't trust in my intuition, open it up and check for yourself01:18
Luke-Jrbut no way to verify I get 1A before I fry the RPi? :/01:18
DocScrutinizer05fry RPi??01:18
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: won't it break if I give it too little power?01:18
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Luke-Jrok, the "assume and find out" approach sounds much nicer then01:19
Luke-JrI need to open it up to so the D-+ short anyway01:19
Luke-Jrunless I can do it in the external connector part01:20
DocScrutinizer05you'll see all 4 ports sharing a common VBUS and GND rail01:20
DocScrutinizer05maybe with a fuse each, but that fuse is like 1..2A then01:21
peterxOk, I did the most stupid thing ever: I accidentally locked my n900 with some lock code I set years ago. Is there a way to read the flash via usb (and not only write), or install some boot loader that boots from the sd card such that I can change or brute force the lock code from within the device?01:21
DocScrutinizer05peterx: alas not, unless you still can connect via WLAN and ssh01:21
DocScrutinizer05you can boot a rescueOS though01:22
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DocScrutinizer05and then "brute-force" the lockcode with john the ripper01:22
infoboti guess rescue-os is
peterxDocScrutinizer05: yeah' that's what I thought01:22
merlin1991peterx: another way would be to flash u-boot and boot ie nemo01:23
peterxah, that's the purpose of the "load" function of the flasher01:23
merlin1991it can read the appropriate flash parts aswell01:23
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merlin1991and you could just flash nemo onto a sd and load the nemo kernel with flasher01:24
merlin1991thus leaving no trace of your recovery01:24
tchell_Phone asks me for lock code, says code accepted, but then cycled endlessly on bouncy dots without ever finishing booting.  Any hints?01:25
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peterxDocScrutinizer05: wow, that's great, thanks a lot!01:25
DocScrutinizer05tchell_: it *might* just do a fsck.ext301:25
peterxand merlin, too01:26
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merlin1991btw I actually did the use nemo sd + load nemo kernel to recover my sisters n900 lockcode :P01:26
tchell_DocScrutinizer05: for 40 minutes?01:27
DocScrutinizer05fsck can take forever01:27
merlin1991fsck can make things worse ;)01:27
DocScrutinizer05but it's entirely unclear how to check if it's really fsck or not01:28
merlin1991because maemo bootscripts are fsckd ;)01:28
DocScrutinizer05yep, I ranted about that some days ago01:28
DocScrutinizer05we'll get a fix for it eventually in CSSU01:28
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: gotta be like 2 weeks by now01:28
DocScrutinizer05quite possible01:29
peterxby the way, can I use flasher-3.12 instead of flasher-3.5?01:29
DocScrutinizer05peterx: nope01:29
merlin1991peterx: only works for harmattan01:29
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tchell_I wish I could ssh into it and see whether it was doing anything.01:30
MrPingucan we boot rescue OS through U-boot so we don't need the flasher?01:30
merlin1991MrPingu: yep01:30
MrPingumerlin1991: Thanks, just came to my mind01:31
merlin1991MrPingu: there is a post on tmo from Pali for a proper bootmenu entry01:31
MrPinguSounds like an awesome method for rescue next to BM01:31
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if we could boot rescueOS even without proper menu entry in uboot-menu, just by entering the right magic spells to tell uboot where to boot01:32
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: yep you can just enter what is part of the entry in the u-boot console01:33
merlin1991yields the same result01:33
DocScrutinizer05thought as much01:33
DocScrutinizer05modulo the keyboard doesn't allow numbers and special chars like / ?01:34
DocScrutinizer05or was that the useless mer shell?01:34
merlin1991afaik the keyboard is the en layout, you should be able to guess everything01:34
DocScrutinizer05or meego shell01:35
merlin1991meego shell had maliit with the | symbol hidden 3 clicks away01:35
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I added code to uboot for n900 english layout01:36
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Pali+ additional keys fn+up, fn+down, fn+left and fn+right01:37
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peterxhm, rescueos comes up, but the /dev-devices seem to be missing. will try again in half an hour01:38
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MrPingumerlin1991: thanks, found it01:39
DocScrutinizer05peterx: dev devices might need some module loading01:44
DocScrutinizer05I dunno how rescueOS is configured01:44
DocScrutinizer05but I'd assume usually it should grant access to maemo root and MyDocs OOTB, even mounted01:45
DocScrutinizer05ask NIN10101:45
NIN101/dev/ should be there including the device nodes01:45
DocScrutinizer05hi NIN10101:46
DocScrutinizer05great you're always here when we need you01:46
NIN101I am also here when you don't need me :P01:46
DocScrutinizer05no worries, anyway great you're always here :-)01:47
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DocScrutinizer05while pali already vanished before I could thank him for special keys in uboot ;-)01:48
MrPinguI'm going for a sleep01:49
DocScrutinizer05peterx: what are the dev nodes you're missing?01:49
MrPingug'night peepz01:49
DocScrutinizer05night MrPingu01:49
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DocScrutinizer05tchell_: anyway, a fsck is known to take several hours, if you want to give it this long.01:51
DocScrutinizer05tchell_: otherwise reflash is your option, probably01:52
* DocScrutinizer05 just hopes the weirdos have considered to already crank up bme before starting fsck, in initscripts01:53
tchell_what's bme?01:54
DocScrutinizer05tchell_: and yeah, you probably should give bme a chance to power the device and hook it up to fastchargger01:54
DocScrutinizer05since shutdown due to depleted battery during fsck is the least thing you'd want to see01:55
tchell_well, I did plug it in01:55
DocScrutinizer05so it's up to you now to either sit it out, or eventually lose patience and resort to more powerful and invasive measures like reflash or rescueOS01:56
DocScrutinizer05s/sit it out/walk it off/01:57
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: so it's up to you now to either walk it off, or eventually lose patience and resort to more powerful and invasive measures like reflash or rescueOS01:57
DocScrutinizer05I witnessed one guy running a fsck on a similar embedded device for 3 days01:58
DocScrutinizer05it actually finished eventually01:58
DocScrutinizer05alas it wasn't able to fix all errors in the fs ;-P01:58
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peterxNIN101: mmcblk* is missing02:00
NIN101well, dunno.02:01
DocScrutinizer05means "should be there"?02:01
NIN101means should be there and was never reported to be mising02:01
DocScrutinizer05could be missing on eMMC completely fsckd up02:02
DocScrutinizer05otoh, doesn't rescueOS boot from uSD?02:02
NIN101it's an initrd.02:02
peterxis there a native pipe symbol in the us keyboard layout? (i have german printed)02:03
DocScrutinizer05I guess it has dmesg?02:03
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DocScrutinizer05peterx: alas not02:04
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DocScrutinizer05peterx: though I dunno which kbd map NIN101 used in rescueOS02:04
DocScrutinizer05or if the vkbd for symbols is supported02:05
NIN101you can use the blue arrow02:05
peterxok, mount root worked02:05
DocScrutinizer05how's that, without /dev/mmcblk* ?02:06
NIN101it's NAND02:06
DocScrutinizer05err mtd yeah02:06
peterxyeah, there is some ubi magic going on02:06
DocScrutinizer05yeah, mounting ubi is rather black magic02:07
Hurrianpeterx, ubiattach ;)02:07
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: no scripted support for that in rescueOS?02:07
NIN101there is a script that does that02:08
DocScrutinizer05thought as much02:08
peterxah, found the pipe symbol, it's where the immensely useful euro-symbol is on the german layout...02:08
DocScrutinizer05hey :-)02:08
DocScrutinizer05so NIN101 used a better than standard keymap02:08
NIN101yeah the keyboard layout situation is quite uncool in rescueos but often you just want to telnet in via usb networking or so.02:09
DocScrutinizer05since US layout has &GBP there02:09
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DocScrutinizer05(I wouldn't even know where to find that on my german kbd)02:10
HurrianDocScrutinizer05: my N900 has GBP, USD, and EUR symbols :(02:10
NIN101afaik the german kbd doesn't have the pipei symbl02:10
HurrianI have the GBP and EUR mapped to curly braces.02:11
peterxdmesg shows "mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied"02:11
Hurrianpeterx, ignore that, that's just for the mtdoops (log on mtd2) driver02:11
DocScrutinizer05mtdoops is sth you won't want to use on rescueOS02:12
peterxfurthermore: "Creating 6 MTD partitions on "omap2-onenand"'02:12
DocScrutinizer05sounds correct02:12
peterxbut that also seems to be something different, isn't it?02:12
Hurrianmhm, it's just listing the available MTD partitions into the map02:12
DocScrutinizer05different than what?02:12
peterxdifferent than the partition I need02:12
peterxthe one that stores the lock key02:13
DocScrutinizer05partition 4 is rootfs iirc02:13
DocScrutinizer05aah, that's partition 102:13
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HurrianDocScrutinizer05, it's partition 6, MTD5 that stores rootfs02:13
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DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: right02:13
DocScrutinizer05anyway CAL it partition 102:14
Hurrianpartition 4 is kernel (MTD3), and MTD4 is the ~2MB initfs space that's unused02:14
peterxok, wait a moment02:14
peterxI just successfully mounted MTD5 via ubi02:14
DocScrutinizer05well mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config"02:15
peterxdoes that mean that I can similarly access the partition that stores the lock code?02:15
DocScrutinizer05   >>  echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1):   <<02:16
DocScrutinizer05/dev/mtd1 is what you need, you don't even mount it02:16
DocScrutinizer05no worries02:17
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peterxI thought I needed /dev/mmcblk* because that is what tried to access02:17
peterxok, so let's try to retrieve the lock code02:17
DocScrutinizer05first you retrieve the hash02:18
DocScrutinizer05or encrypted key02:18
DocScrutinizer05then you rip that with john02:18
DocScrutinizer05on your PC02:18
DocScrutinizer05unless your "encrypted" key was "12345" which stands for "12345" ;-P02:19
DocScrutinizer05but I guess you already made sure that's not your lockcode02:20
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peterxyeah, I tried 12345 not only once ;-)02:24
DocScrutinizer05btw if any of you has installed proper tools, you should use >> echo root:$(busybox grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): << instead02:24
DocScrutinizer05as gnugrep does barf up on the binary file02:24
peterxit worked :-)02:25
DocScrutinizer05already ripped?02:25
peterxjohn did it in less than a second02:25
DocScrutinizer05yeah, quite usual02:25
peterxthank you all!02:26
DocScrutinizer05pleased to help02:26
peterxnow I'll install BackupMenu02:26
DocScrutinizer05good plan02:26
DocScrutinizer05though, for the devicelock it wouldn't have helped much02:27
DocScrutinizer05unless you get a working shell in BM02:27
* DocScrutinizer05 suspects you need KP for that to work02:28
peterxok, but nevertheless, I do not really trust the built-in backup solution02:28
peterxI would rather read the device files and pipe them into bup02:28
DocScrutinizer05and fully justified so02:29
DocScrutinizer05BM does real backups, not like the freaky builtin backup app that actually only stores some config files and a list of installed apps02:30
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DocScrutinizer05but I recently learnt BM needs proper date and time set on N900, for restore to not fail epically02:31
DocScrutinizer05just for a sidenote02:31
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peterxDocScrutinizer05: ah, good to know02:36
Skryactually, the issue doc speaks of was not because of tar complaining about timestamps02:37
DocScrutinizer05Skry: so please elaborate02:38
DocScrutinizer05I thought it was02:38
Skrydidnt follow the discussion but apparently he had different kernel in backup than what was installed02:38
DocScrutinizer05so the tar was only warnings02:39
Skryso issue was missing modules i presume02:39
Skryyes they were only warnings nothing more02:39
DocScrutinizer05thanks a lot02:39
Skrynp. imo that information should probably be in some wiki or something as a note if it already isn't.02:40
infobotwell, backupmenu is
nox-so a backup is useless if you dont also backup the exact same kernel package?02:41
DocScrutinizer05err, if you restore kernel modules that don't match the kernel you got installed, you're obviously doomed02:42
nox-ah it backs up modules but not the kernel itself?02:42
DocScrutinizer05since BM doesn't backup kernels (yet?)02:42
nox-that sounds like an useful missing feature then...02:43
DocScrutinizer05... you're supposed to flash a fresh maemo rootfs plus the kernel matching your modules in the backup on top02:43
nox-right so you have to backup that kernel too02:43
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DocScrutinizer05nox-: we already 'inveted' how to backup and flash back the kernel and other mtd partitons as a complete image, only missing to implement that into BM02:44
Hurrianbut the problem is Backupmenu doesn't have "flasher" installed02:44
nox-i c02:44
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: mtdutils02:44
nox-could one tell restore to skip modules too?02:45
DocScrutinizer05yep, probably02:45
DocScrutinizer05dunno if you actually can02:45
nox-might also make sense...02:45
DocScrutinizer05yep, sure02:46
nox-hm are the backups just tarballs that you could remove the modules from on a pc?02:47
nox-ok good to know...02:47
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DocScrutinizer05you should keep them on the uSD for that reason02:49
peterxis there a lock and wipe application for maemo?02:57
SpeedEvillock and wipe?02:57
peterxlock and wipe on x failed attempts to unlock02:58
DocScrutinizer05not afaik02:59
DocScrutinizer05but you could set up some fake thing for that easily02:59
peterxok, different (and hopefully last) question: is it enough (disregarding kernel update) to backup the two partitions exported by backupmenu? it looks like the root partition is missing03:00
DocScrutinizer05ummm, I never thought something's missing03:01
DocScrutinizer05but I currently don't have the exact menu in front of me03:02
DocScrutinizer05but two partitions sounds about right: / and /home03:04
DocScrutinizer05instead of /home BM might backup /opt?03:05
DocScrutinizer05thus missing out /home/user ?03:05
peterxit exports a device with three partitions:03:05
peterxthe MyDocs partition, a swap partition and what seems to be /home03:06
DocScrutinizer05err, the export is something completely different from what a backup does03:06
peterxat least there are directories called user and opt03:06
DocScrutinizer05a SWAP partition??03:06
peterxat least fdisk says so03:06
DocScrutinizer05I got NFC what BM exports03:07
DocScrutinizer05never used that function03:07
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peterxok, it exports the eMMC03:07
peterxso the root partition is missing03:08
peterxthere is also a second device which could be the nand, but I cannot access it "no medium found"03:08
Luke-Jrlooks like USB hub B is 500 mA03:09
peterxah, it can be accessed via ssh and usb networking03:19
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DocScrutinizer05well, three exported partitions sounds like /, /home, ~user/MyDocs03:27
peterxno, they are not, root is in nand03:28
peterxand it is not exported03:28
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DocScrutinizer05so how is it relevant for backup then?03:58
DocScrutinizer0560 sec to time lapse03:59
DocScrutinizer05the only two friggin clocks ignoring this completely are my oldfashioned analog alarm clock and my radio controlled clock(!!)03:01
peterxI am using bup ( - deduplicating git based utility) to do the backup03:03
peterxand I would like to simply store all of the partitions as they are03:03
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DocScrutinizer05well, you're out of luck for that, since obviously nothing is exporting the / partition03:09
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peterxsure, but you can gain access to it via backupmenu, usb networking and ssh03:11
DocScrutinizer05of course you could do a BM backup of root partition, then scp or otherwise transfer that tarball to your backup machine, untar and archive03:11
peterxI just need to for i in 0 1 2 3 4 5; do ssh "cat /dev/mtd${i}ro" | bup split -n n900-mtd${i}; done03:12
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DocScrutinizer05err wut?03:13
DocScrutinizer05nfc what you plan to do with that, but a image of mtd done by cat is basically useless03:14
DocScrutinizer05unless bup had some ultra-special magic03:15
DocScrutinizer05and probably such magic is even impossible, since it lacks the support in the way cat and /dev/mtd work03:16
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DocScrutinizer05well, maybe not. But anyway you couldn't restore those images anyway03:17
peterxhm? why?03:17
peterxcan't I just cat them back?03:17
DocScrutinizer05since that's NAND03:17
DocScrutinizer05and UBIfs or other nifty stuff to handle badblocks and OOB etc03:18
peterxok, I thought I could just use it as an ordinary block device...03:18
DocScrutinizer05nope, that's what BM-v1 thought could be done, until we tought robbiethe1st about problems with bad blocks in NAND and kicked it out of the maemo repos03:18
DocScrutinizer05since then we got BM-v2 which is doing a file-by-file disk image to tarballs03:19
peterxhm, and what about the other things like the kernel and the boot loader?03:20
DocScrutinizer05I recently looked ito mtdutils which allow to actually write to NAND in a compatible way, with mtdwrite taking care about bad blocks and OOB03:21
DocScrutinizer05alas it's not yet(?) implemented into BM03:21
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Ken-YoungI had to re-install the scratchbox-based SDK for Maemo 5.   The crosscompiling stuff all works, and the proprietary Nokia stuff works, but dh)make is missing, so I can't build a .deb .   Does anyone khow where I can get that from, and why it would not be present in the normal SDK installation?03:35
Skrycan't one read mtd like a block device when using mtdblock?03:37
Skryor does it also produce useless image03:38
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peterxSkry: reading seems to work04:07
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DocScrutinizer05reading might work (not completely checked the facts), but definitely writing doesn't04:45
DocScrutinizer05even for reading I'm unsure if it will skip bad blocks or deliver garbage04:46
DocScrutinizer05but honestly, why you don't use mtdtools for all that?04:48
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Luke-JrDocScrutinizer06: got the USB charger open, but shorting random pins on the USB port seems to do nothing05:04
DocScrutinizer05err, random pinds?05:05
Luke-Jrwell, dunno which ones are D+-05:05
DocScrutinizer05you should short D+ to D-, aka the middle two05:05
Luke-Jrthere's no obvious correlation on the PCB05:05
Luke-Jrfound it maybe05:06
DocScrutinizer05there's not? how's that?05:06
Luke-JrUSB port is horizontal, pins are vertical?05:06
Luke-Jror in a square05:06
Luke-Jrnot even sure which ones are which05:06
DocScrutinizer05all USB receptacles I've seen had 4 pins in a row05:06
DocScrutinizer05you see the USB receptacles?05:06
DocScrutinizer05the solder points are right to the back05:07
DocScrutinizer05on backside of each receptacle there are 4 pins in a row05:08
DocScrutinizer05if you consider the side where you insert the plug as fronstside05:08
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't know how to describe it any better05:09
Luke-Jris it possible the N900 got pissed at my shorting at random and decided to stop looking for a charger? <.<05:09
Luke-Jrwait what05:09
DocScrutinizer05I haven't ever seen any 4pin fullsize USB receptacles that were any ambiguous regarding pins05:09
Luke-JrI replugged it to reset any such logic… and it said Charger disconnected -.-05:10
Luke-Jrlooks like of the 4 in a row, the right two are D?05:10
DocScrutinizer05the MIDDLE two!!!05:11
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Luke-Jrbut only shorting the right two works.. :/05:11
DocScrutinizer05no matter from which side you look it's always the middle two that are data05:11
DocScrutinizer05meh, great. Try&error on a $$$ device05:12
DocScrutinizer05you're awatre that USB data is 3V3 though VBUS is 5V ?05:13
Luke-Jrsomeone told me the worst that happens is I break the USB charger :|05:13
DocScrutinizer05the one who told you that for sure didn't anticipate you're doing random insane stuff05:14
Luke-Jryou may have a point there <.<05:14
DocScrutinizer05data lines should be OVP for 5V05:14
Luke-Jrhmm, maybe I'm just sucky at shorting the pins I intend to05:15
Luke-Jrin any case, I think my 93% full is too full to test speed now :<05:15
DocScrutinizer05connecting/shorting USB data to any point of mains input of charger might kill some stuff though05:15
Luke-Jrand I lack any conductive material to make a perm connection with05:15
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: do you ever sleep? :)05:16
Luke-Jrshould have had wire glue around here, but it seems to be lost :<05:16
DocScrutinizer05you should just happily assume it is all ok, and short the middle two pins of USB with a solder blob05:16
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: sleep is overrated05:16
jon_yis your nick shared by multiple users?05:16
DocScrutinizer05nope, multiple nicks are shared by me ;-P05:17
jon_yor doing the "overman" sleep05:17
Ken-YoungI had to re-install the scratchbox-based SDK for Maemo 5.   The crosscompiling stuff all works, and the proprietary Nokia stuff works, but dh)make is missing, so I can't build a .deb .   Does anyone khow where I can get that from, and why it would not be present in the normal SDK installation?05:17
DocScrutinizer05Ken-Young: I couldn't recall anybody complaining about some basic stuff like that missing in maemo SB. So maybe you're looking for the wrong thing?05:18
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: uberman sleep cycle? :)05:18
jon_ySix 20-minute naps (every 4 hours)05:19
jon_y2 hour sleep a day05:19
DocScrutinizer05I sleep while not typing05:19
DocScrutinizer05a few seconds between each two posts05:19
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer05, Well, I've done a search of every file under /scratchbox, and nothing called db_make is there.05:20
DocScrutinizer05Ken-Young: maybe it's not called db_make then05:20
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer05, It sure was when I originally installed the SDK, a couple of years ago.05:21
DocScrutinizer05Ken-Young: though you have to ask somebody with a tad more recent experience in using SB05:21
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: what build env do you use?05:21
Ken-YoungI've been searching TMO threads.   Some people mention this problem, but I haven't seen a solution yet.05:21
DocScrutinizer05I'm not building stuff usually05:21
jon_ywhat is the most common system? SB?05:22
DocScrutinizer05Ken-Young: you better wait for somebody using SB and not haviong the problem, then ask him how he's building debs05:22
DocScrutinizer05maybe there's build_deb05:22
jon_ybtw, is the N900 armv7?05:23
DocScrutinizer05or whatever else05:23
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: basically yes, I'd think05:23
jon_ybut no hardfloat?05:23
DocScrutinizer05yep, we have hardfp aka numbercruncher on cortex-A805:23
jon_yoh ok, so it is possible to stick debian armhf into easychroot?05:24
jon_yiirc the normal armel platform is softfloat05:24
DocScrutinizer05there's a normal armel platform? ;-)05:25
jon_ywell, debian armel05:25
jon_yfrom easydebian05:25
DocScrutinizer05you meant the sw05:25
DocScrutinizer05softfp vs hardfp is just an API convention, where to pass floats, if in CPU domain or in float registers - afaik05:26
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jon_ywell, that and some hardware support for fp computations with hardfp05:27
DocScrutinizer05basically both are lib stubs to the numbercruncher05:27
DocScrutinizer05at least that's what they told me05:27
jon_yonly hardfp takes advantage of the hardware support though05:28
DocScrutinizer05and meego-CE as of stskeeps decided to go for hardfp on N90005:28
jon_ysoftfp float computation is done in software, really really slow05:28
Skrycan confirm the armv7h05:28
DocScrutinizer05nope, that's unrelated afaik05:28
DocScrutinizer05even softfp may use numbercruncher05:29
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer05, Really, softfp does not mean software floating point (not using CPU float instructions)?05:29
DocScrutinizer05the real meego, now mer05:29
jon_yI thought softfp meant emulation with integer math05:29
jon_yyour mantissas and what not05:30
DocScrutinizer05I also thought that, until stskeeps educated me05:30
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jon_yok, so softfp using numbercruncher depends on the math library?05:31
DocScrutinizer05but as of now my knowledge says both are in a lib (probably libc), and the hardfp vs softfp only says how to invoke the lib functions for sin() div-float() etc. While the lib could use software emulation with softfp, but also could use numbercruncher with softfp05:32
jon_yok, makes sense05:32
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jon_ythough I suppose float asm insn is only present in hardfp05:33
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robbiethe1stHm, could we use GPU or DSP for some of the floating point calcs?05:33
jon_yI suppose you could if you can program them05:33
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DocScrutinizer05no, there's a dedicated numbercruncher afaik, called neon(?)05:34
jon_yI thought neon was some kind of SIMD thing?05:34
DocScrutinizer05that's why there's a (?) behind it05:34
DocScrutinizer05I'm not aure about the hw float support05:35
DocScrutinizer05what I'm sure about is the diff between hardfp and softfp05:36
DocScrutinizer05and since hardfp means "pass the floats in the float registers" ther have to be some float registers which wouldn't make sense if there's no float ALU to do something with those float registers05:37
jon_yok, so N900 is using the softfp ABI, but has hardware support?05:38
DocScrutinizer05no, maemo is using softfp ABI, mer/meego is using hardfp05:39
DocScrutinizer05if this didn't change since I last heard about it05:39
jon_yok, understood05:40
jon_ychroot isn't going to translate between ABIs05:40
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jon_yI don't think debian armel is going to take advantage of the hw number cruncher05:40
DocScrutinizer05but we recently talked about it and found that probably there's no FP gateways in the chroot borderline05:40
jon_ydo you need the kernel to trap them?05:42
DocScrutinizer05ypur whole system has to be compiled for either hardfp or softfp, but since all your 'system' lives inside chroot, a chroot hosting a hardfp could live on a host running softfp05:42
DocScrutinizer05the float math is done in a lib, not in kernel05:43
DocScrutinizer05floats are even deprecated or rather forbidden in kernel land05:43
DocScrutinizer05the lib is part of your chroot05:43
jon_yah right, I forgot the libc for debian also lives in chroot05:44
jon_yhoepfully there aren't any problems with context switching etc05:44
jon_yI still remember the win98 days and sse, there may only be 1 SSE program at a given time05:45
jon_ythe OS wasn't sse aware and did not save/restore the XMM registers on context switching05:45
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess context switching should take care of the float registers as well05:45
jon_ywell, does the N900 kernel do that? :)05:46
jon_ydoes it need to be aware of the float registers? or are they shared with the gp registers?05:46
DocScrutinizer05good question, but since I never heard stskeeps mentioning a hardfp kernel for mer/meego, I assume kernel usually cares about float regs as well05:46
jon_yin the sse case XMM was a different register than the general purpose ones, so OS needs to be awre of them05:47
DocScrutinizer05looks good05:48
Skrythere are no floats in arm kernel so the hardfp kernel people keep asking about is irrelevant and you need to hack Makefiles to even achieve that.05:49
DocScrutinizer05though I'm worried about those resistors which are next to /under the USB receptacles. They look like they implement another charger standard, compatible to apple etc05:49
DocScrutinizer05Skry: please rephrase05:50
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: I'd suggest you don't short all 4 USB receptacles like that, keeping some of them for apple products05:51
jon_ySkry: the kernel does not need to be aware of the registers?05:51
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jon_yeg hardfp and softfp registers are the same, maybe placement is different?05:51
jon_yactually are there any difference in register use?05:52
DocScrutinizer05>> The public ARM Cortex-A8 processor incorporates the technologies available in the ARM7 architecture. These technologies include Neon for media and signal processing and Jazelle RCT for acceleration of realtime compilers, Thumb-2 technology for code density and the VFPv3 floating-point architecture. <<05:57
Skrymeh, just try to pass CFLAGS="-mfloat-abi=hard" to compiler when building kernel and look if it's actually used. Not. Anyways, there is no gain in hardfp kernel.05:58
Skryand yes you can run hfp in chroot on sfp system, incompatibilites come with linking libraries of different abi06:01
jon_yok, kernel support not needed06:02
Skryand if I recall correctly, kernel does not have that much floats so vfp is sufficient06:02
jon_ySkry: I mean does the kernel actually need to know about vfp specifically for the libc to use hardfloat ABI?06:03
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: there's obviously no sense in passing float-abi=hard to kernel, since nothing is passing any floats to kernel. Nevertheless that's not been the question in the end06:04
DocScrutinizer05the hardfp ABI is to libc, which is not used by kernel afaik06:05
DocScrutinizer05still the question is if kernel (particularly scheduler) will take care about VFPv3 registers on task switching06:06
jon_yyeah, will it foul up like the SSE case in win98?06:06
Skryafaik it does take care of06:08
Skryand sorry, read backlog very briefly, kinda busy here06:09
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: IroN900:~# cat /proc/cpu    ->Features        : swp half fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv306:09
jon_yok, cpu does know about vfp06:09
jon_yand Skry says the kernel task switcher takes care of the vfp regs06:10
DocScrutinizer05It would be more than insane if it doesn't06:10
jon_ylooks like no trouble at all in chroot hardfp as long as you don't mix the libc06:10
jon_yeg don't call easydebian stuff from outside the chroot06:11
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: Apple products are broken?06:11
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: they just use another equally ligitimate charger spec06:12
DocScrutinizer05something like "D+ = 0.66*VBUS; D-=0.33*VBUS"06:12
DocScrutinizer05which looks exactly like what those resistors are implementing06:13
DocScrutinizer05a 2R/R devider for one D line, a R/2R devider for the other06:14
Luke-Jrwtf? two incompatible standards? :/06:14
jon_ymake sure to get BIG resistors, so load don't particularly affect the voltage :)06:15
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and both introduced resp certified by USB cert06:15
jon_ymaybe I forgot my basic electronics06:15
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DocScrutinizer05at least D+- short *is* certified by USB cert foundation06:17
DocScrutinizer05or whatever the name of those xxxxx06:17
DocScrutinizer05 not entirely sure about the "apple standard"06:17
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: actually you should unsolder/remove the 4 resistors on the shorted USB port06:18
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: does it really matter?06:19
DocScrutinizer05they easily might spoil the D+- short detection06:19
Luke-Jralready put it back together..06:19
jon_yiirc "Apple standard" was formulated before the d+- short thing06:19
jon_ythey needed more power than the standard USB provides06:19
jon_ysome sort of signaling mechanism to say it's ok to draw more than the normal current06:19
DocScrutinizer05that's what D+- short does as well06:20
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jon_yApple did it for their iPods06:21
jon_ybefore all this was standardized06:21
DocScrutinizer05actually N900 and other similar devices are supposed to detect D+- short by attaching a pullup to one D-line, a weak pulldown to the other, and then check if the line with weak pulldown is actually at high level. So somehow the both standards might be partially compatible under certain preconditions06:22
DocScrutinizer05(or maybe swap "up" and "down" in my last statement, I can't remember)06:23
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: ^^^ that's why the resistors might interfere with N900's internal detection of D+- short06:25
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: in practice, it doesn't06:25
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: the D+- standard requires none of the D-lines conected to any other voltage level, not via resistors nor directly06:26
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kerioyay, chanserv is back ^_^10:41
kerioand you're all back too!10:41
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DocScrutinizer05yoh, moinmoin13:24
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freemangordonWTF? PA in -thumb uses more CPU than stock. Something is wrong here13:31
keriofreemangordon: try disabling thumb and compiling with gcc4.713:35
freemangordonwill do13:35
freemangordonbut first want to see why is that13:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: D:13:39
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DocScrutinizer05is cpufreq/governour a usual process like any other? I.E. will it get scheduled and switching of cpufreq only happens when governor is the active&running process?13:43
DocScrutinizer05anyway, freemangordon: use powertop13:44
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: why? the difference is clearly visible. frequency locked on 25013:45
DocScrutinizer05top etc are basically useless for in-depth and really meaningful investigations of cpu usage of a process13:45
freemangordonI bet it is because -O3 -ffast-math13:45
DocScrutinizer05with locked freq that's a tad different indeed13:45
DocScrutinizer05what's fast-math?13:46
freemangordongcc is still not good enough doing NEON optimizations13:46
freemangordonenable auto-vectorizer13:46
freemangordoni'll recompile with -o@13:46
DocScrutinizer05trying to do math in vector processor might be a poor idea13:47
DocScrutinizer05for audio13:47
kerioand -ffast-math is often slower13:47
DocScrutinizer05that's what I meant13:47
freemangordonin theory that should speed up floating point a lot13:47
DocScrutinizer05the math in audio isn't exactly vector math usually13:48
freemangordonBTW I am using stock compiler flags13:48
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kerio"Disabling ‘fast-math’ not only solved the consistency problem, it made Avida faster in certain cases and had no effect in others."13:48
freemangordonwhich gcc?13:49
kerioit's a 2009 article, so idk13:49
freemangordonthat is old13:49
freemangordonthough I saw the same with openssl13:49
freemangordonenabling tree-vectorizer and ffast-math made openssl slower13:49
freemangordonby a 2-3% but still13:50
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keriofreemangordon: are you sure you're not confusing the logs, btw?13:53
freemangordonwhich logs?13:54
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keriowell, the results13:54
kerioanyway, -ffast-math does some *nasty* things13:54
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freemangordonkerio: -O3 along with -ffast-math allows gcc to use NEON intrinstics13:58
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freemangordonor better said tells gcc to use them13:58
keriowell it's clearly not working as intended13:59
freemangordonwel,, it works as inteneded, just a bit slower13:59
freemangordonstock PA is compiled with the same flags13:59
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freemangordonbut as 4.7 has way better support for NEON, it "optimizes" much more code to use NEON14:00
kerioeveryone says that gcc is crap at using NEON intrinsics :s14:00
freemangordonand the result seems to be slower code14:00
kerioi say asm dat shit14:00
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freemangordonnaah, i'll disable fast-math and will -O2 instead of -O3 for start14:01
freemangordonafter having something to eat :D14:01
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DocScrutinizer05how about some decent profiling tool?14:18
DocScrutinizer05not that I could name any specific one right away14:18
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* ShadowJK 'd cry more about pa if it used floating point for processing audio14:35
ShadowJKalso try -Os :D14:36
kerioShadowJK: wait, it doesn't?14:37
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ShadowJKit's written by lunatics so it probably does14:38
ShadowJKbut i dunno14:38
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ShadowJKfound something mentioning resampling is fixed point atleast14:43
kerioShadowJK: wouldn't floats make it faster?14:44
ShadowJKapparently it's neon optimised version of speex's integer resample :)14:44
DocScrutinizer05loosely related:
DocScrutinizer05at least a confirmation od14:47
ShadowJKSo if the neon code didnt get compiled with newer gcc4.7, or if the neon code was written with intrinsics and new gcc does something random in a different way now14:47
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DocScrutinizer05of "shadowJK: it's written by lunatics"14:47
keriocan't we write a PA emulation layer for alsa?14:48
ShadowJKkerio; was it you with the xplosm cartoon edit of PA?14:48
kerioShadowJK: it's not mine14:48
kerioi got it on #redeclipse14:48
ShadowJKwell do you still have link14:48
kerioShadowJK: /topic :)14:48
ShadowJKoh :)14:48
kerioalso wtf, this is not #maemo-ssu14:48
ShadowJKnot in topics?14:49
keriowell, we're discussing the cssu-thumb recompile of pulseaudio...14:49
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* ShadowJK bookmarks it14:53
keriofreemangordon: benchmarked PA without -ffast-math yet?14:54
DocScrutinizer05author: fakjujahuu   X-P14:57
DocScrutinizer05why didn't I think about that?14:57
kerioDocScrutinizer05: huh?14:59
DocScrutinizer05((<kerio> also wtf, this is not #maemo-ssu)) no worries, some users wouldn't ever know about the awesome stuff we do at CSSU, otherwise ;-)14:59
ShadowJKnobody's complaining15:00
DocScrutinizer05kerio: author: fakjujahuu15:00
ShadowJKit makes sense once you say tehe author's name out loud15:01
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DocScrutinizer05[general notice] If you could be bothered to contribute to maemo in this very particular way: Council Elections nomination period is closing today - I'd encourage you to run for a seat in maemo council!15:05
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: should i run for council?15:05
keriowell too bad, i'm not gonna15:05
kerioi don't even know what the council is supposed to do15:06
DocScrutinizer05that's pretty much up for a fundamental redefinition right now15:06
DocScrutinizer05I'd think it's basically useless now that we got hildon foundation, and probably should get discontinued / merged with HF15:07
grywhat is hildon foundation?15:08
DocScrutinizer05the non profit foundation that you were supposed to elect for, some 2 weeks ago. It's for taking responsibility regarding e.g continuation of servers for *, owning the domain name from Nokia, etc15:09
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DocScrutinizer05pretty much a lot of legalese and organizational stuff that only a legal entity could do15:10
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DocScrutinizer05while council been established to play ambassador between community and Nokia, so now between community and HF, which doesn't make much sense in my book15:11
DocScrutinizer05since, unlike Nokia, HF is a non profit organization and got elected by community just like council15:12
Ken-YoungA new version of the orrery app for the N900 has been uploaded to the Extras Testing repository.   This new version will display the two comets which may be bright in 2013.15:13
DocScrutinizer05so council are community's proxies to negotiate between community and community's proxies15:14
DocScrutinizer05Ken-Young: \o/ great15:14
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I'd think you pretty much could help on that daunting task (community proxy)15:15
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keriobut i hate the community!15:21
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Sicelokewl Ken-Young :)15:34
grykerio, you sure? ;)15:34
kerioespecially you!15:35
Sicelobtw, have you ever used jSolun? it's java-based.. but has some really nice features. it's one of those applications i miss on N90015:37
Sicelohey gry :P15:37
gryhello, Sicelo!15:38
gryand night :)15:38
Sicelostill have your N900?15:39
Ken-YoungSicelo, I had never heard of that program.   I'll have to take a look at it.   Thanks!15:39
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* SpeedEvil goes to reinatall orrery15:44
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akls<DocScrutinizer05> ((<kerio> also wtf, this is not #maemo-ssu)) no worries, some users wouldn't ever know about the awesome stuff we do at CSSU, otherwise ;-)15:56
aklswtf, there is some awesome stuff I don't know about?15:56
kerioakls: yep15:56
kerioi don't know if you know about them, though15:57
aklslike what?15:57
keriolike CSSU15:57
kerioand CSSU-thumb15:57
Skryessential stuff15:58
kerioand a slower pulseaudio!15:58
keriono, wait15:58
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aklsoh, by the way16:00
aklsabout pulseaudio...16:00
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aklswhen listening music through cmus player music stops playing when I hit power button twice to lock the screen16:01
aklsand it seems like with native player there's no such problem16:01
aklsis it some problem with cmus process priority or what?16:01
kerioakls: probably the policy daemon16:01
kerioso... tough luck16:01
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ShadowJKit pauses for a moment with mplayer too16:02
SkryShadowJK: is it ok to you if I distribute your which I modified to some extent in my Arch packages?16:08
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: as long as some (c) is kept I'd guess it's ok16:24
Skryoh my, the latest WTF from canonical, they'll be pushing out SDK for ubuntu16:28
raccoon_Skry: SDK = ? are they releaseing their own toolchain or is it something ubuntu distro related?16:31
raccoon_for distro development that is16:31
Skryapparently for "application development"16:33
keriolike... gcc?16:34
Skryprobably enforcing some specific versions of compiler and libs16:35
Skryand ofc everything buntu-patched16:35
raccoon_but WHY?16:36
raccoon_they are breaking linux16:36
Skrybeen doing that for awhile16:36
Skryms applenical16:37
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jon_ySkry: it better be running on Windows :)16:43
jon_ylike android emulators16:43
Skrywouldnt surprise me :)16:43
jon_yheh, maybe it's really ubuntu in a vm image16:44
jon_yoh, and MSVC integration16:44
jon_ycorporate drones love MSVC16:44
Skryyeah thats a must16:44
jon_yso, they build their "solutions" and upload the image to the vm16:45
jon_ysounds so complicated when written that way :)16:45
ccssnetfuck ubuntu16:46
jon_yubuntu used to be nice, until they dissed all the standard stuff and doing things the MS way16:48
kerioindeed, fuck ubuntu16:48
keriomy favourite distro is mint, now :316:48
Skrywell, if they want to take the android route so be it, good riddance.16:48
keriofor "user-friendly" things16:48
* jon_y uses Debian16:48
Skryerm, mint is ubuntu16:48
jon_yexcept without the stupid annoying UI, so one step above ubuntu16:49
GeneralAntillesBased on is not "is"16:49
GeneralAntillesJust because they use Ubuntu repositories doesn't mean they're beholden to the same architecture decisions Ubuntu makes.16:49
kerioGeneralAntilles: it uses upstart, though16:49
keriomint debian edition is probably better in that regard16:50
jon_ywhat is upstart?16:50
GeneralAntillesI've not really had issues with Upstart.16:50
jon_ywhat so different than the normal sysvinit?16:50
keriojon_y: it's one step closer to systemd16:50
Skrytotally forgot debian edition exists, well, that's approved :)16:51
jon_ysorry, I haven't been keeping up with all the startup systems16:51
jon_yso, sysvinit, upstart, systemd16:51
jon_ywhat is the difference between them?16:53
Skryanyways, mint is pretty usable, excellent beginner distro, hopefully they take some distance to ubuntu16:53
freemangordonhmm, PA with -O2 and -fno-fast-math seems to be at least as fast as stock16:54
Skryjon_y: sysvinit is the old monolithic beast that the new monolithic beast systemd is going to deprecate16:55
jon_ywhat does it do differently?16:55
Skryjon_y: pretty much everything16:55
Skryjon_y: ie. it does not have runlevels but targets which are similar concepts though16:56
Skryit also has socket based activation of services and stuff16:57
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Skrybesides doing shit the non-traditional way, making some scary changes, when you get into it it's really great17:00
Skryobviously one can disagree and take it as an abomination, and I can understand why, but I can also see why it is being adopted so widely already17:01
jon_yok, does it have the old runlevel-like functionality?17:01
jon_yeg, I want to shutdown networking capability temporary17:02
Skryyes, you can switch targets and select default targets17:02
Skrybut if you want to shutdown network temporarily you dont need to switch targets, you just stop the service17:02
jon_yrun levels are now known as targets?17:02
Skryso the basic functionally resembles sysvinit very much17:02
Skrywell, you have targets like sound, graphical desktop and so on, which can depend on others and change accordingly17:03
Skryie., etc17:04
Skryyou should read about it17:04
jon_yit's totally possible to up the graphical desktop without sound etc?17:04
SkryI'm not that good explaining anything :P17:04
jon_ywikipedia has a really brief explanation on systemd17:04
Skrycheck systemd site, and this is also a good read
keriofreemangordon: what about PA with -O3 and -fno-fast-math?17:06
DocScrutinizer05((<raccoon_> they are breaking linux)) they did from first minute they hijacked it17:07
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: you're just jealous of poettering's awesoem system architecturing skillz17:11
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kerioappropriately enough, poettering's blog is called "I'll Break Your Audio"17:12
DocScrutinizer05no, i'm jalous of his complete ignorance regarding situations where he can make himself a fool17:12
DocScrutinizer05his God-alike self-esteem17:13
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DocScrutinizer05what I'm definitely NOT jealous about are his actual skills17:13
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freemangordonkerio: I can't think of a way to benchmark it precisely17:14
kerioplay song with known player17:15
kerioand for the love of god, *not mafw*17:15
freemangordonwhy not mafw?17:15
keriotry high-volume speaker too17:15
keriobecause mafw sucks balls17:15
freemangordonhow is that related to PA?17:15
kerioyou want something that doesn't use a lot of cpu17:16
freemangordonkerio: I want to measure gow much CPU PA uses17:16
Skrymplayer -ao pulse17:16
freemangordonthat is what I am doing17:16
freemangordonbesides I use mafw17:16
freemangordonwith frequency lokced to 25017:16
freemangordonbut PA CPU usage varies17:17
freemangordonany idea how to get only one process CPU usage and to write it to a file?17:17
freemangordonso I can put that later in a table, for comparison17:18
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keriopowertop, maybe?17:23
freemangordontop -d 1| grep -v grep | grep `pidof pulseaudio` | cut ...17:23
DocScrutinizer05cat /proc/self/stat17:23
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DocScrutinizer05well, <`pidof yourprocess`>17:24
freemangordonhmm, which column is CPU usage?17:25
DocScrutinizer05you have to calculate the ratio of jiffies for that process to jiffies expired in total since last query17:25
freemangordonyeah :D17:26
freemangordoni'll stick with top17:26
aklsand on ubuntu topic.. I've been using Lubuntu for a year or so and it's something a human being would expect from a linux distro17:26
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: good luck with top -d 117:26
DocScrutinizer05try it17:27
freemangordonit seems work17:27
freemangordoni've tried it17:27
DocScrutinizer05never worked for me to pipe / redirect top output to anything17:27
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DocScrutinizer05maybe for messybox top that's different17:28
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DocScrutinizer05maybe you meant top -n 117:29
freemangordond should be for interval iirc17:29
DocScrutinizer05which actually seems to somwhat work17:29
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DocScrutinizer05anyway top output is ncurses, rather ugly and indigestible17:31
freemangordonI just need CPU usage percent with 1 s sampling rate17:31
Skryfreemangordon: you could loop this ps -eo pid,user,%cpu,args --sort %cpu | grep pulseaudio | tail -n1 | awk '{print $3}' | awk -F \. '{print $1}'17:31
DocScrutinizer05which is a nice cmdline in itself ;-P17:31
freemangordonok, have the results for O2 4.7, lets see how is stock17:33
DocScrutinizer05yeah, this would actually work, for procps, though not for busybox ps17:33
Skryah, I always forget the busybox :S17:33
Skryfscking hate it17:34
Skryerm, dislike17:34
DocScrutinizer05don't say "I hate it" or somebody here will tell you you're silly as hating a software is impossible17:34
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils17:36
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DocScrutinizer05Skry: btw many thanks for the nice ps options cmdline17:38
DocScrutinizer05mad useful17:38
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SkryDocScrutinizer05: np17:40
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DocScrutinizer05what is awk -F \. '{print $1}' doing though?17:41
DocScrutinizer05aiui it just prints the digits before decimal?17:42
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DocScrutinizer05(btw I got procps on my iroN900 ;-D )17:43
SkryDocScrutinizer05: matter of output formatting17:43
Skryif you want to see the .? you can omit that17:43
DocScrutinizer05already did17:44
DocScrutinizer05Xorg 0 vs Xorg 0.217:44
Skryguess it would be more sane to round it though17:44
DocScrutinizer05maybe freemangordon can use % with decimals17:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: but you have to uninstall the metapackage to install procps D:17:45
DocScrutinizer05aaah, so it's been THAT17:45
DocScrutinizer05and installing stock camera-ui already had no problem then17:46
DocScrutinizer05now I recall I wrote exactly that when nswering the question in CSSU tmo thread17:46
keriono, no, the stock camera-ui is still problematic17:46
DocScrutinizer05well, if you say so17:47
kerioi do say so17:47
DocScrutinizer05I think the MP at large isproblematic17:47
DocScrutinizer05and CSSU should get rid of it, sonner rather than later17:48
DocScrutinizer05it's locking in users17:48
keriocamera-ui (>=
keriothat's a dependency of the latest mp-fremantle-community-pr outside of thumb17:49
kerio(the thumby one depends on +0cssu14+thumb0)17:49
kerioDocScrutinizer05: HAM has a way of enabling a "magic" package that upgrades everything17:49
DocScrutinizer05I'm listening17:50
keriono, it ends here :)17:50
keriothere's still no way to cherrypick updates for non-user packages17:50
DocScrutinizer05didn't help me out17:50
keriounless you show all packages17:50
freemangordonhmm, does not look good17:52
freemangordonseems that thumb PA uses more CPU than stock17:52
Skryhow much more?17:52
kerioit makes no sense17:52
DocScrutinizer05well, thumb never claimed to be more CPU efficient, only more compact17:52
freemangordonwell, what i did is to get 95 samples, for one and the same song17:53
freemangordonthen substracted sample by sample and sum17:53
freemangordonthe difference is 80.517:53
kerio80.5 what?17:54
freemangordonkerio: read again17:54
* DocScrutinizer05 does, scratches head17:55
kerioi'm still missing the unit of measurement17:55
freemangordonSUM(thumb_cpu_usage(i)-stock_cpu_usage(i)), i=1-9417:55
DocScrutinizer05btw a tricky method to calculate cpu usage of a process is to run a busy counting loop in another process and see how much it slows down17:56 summed percentages? :s17:56
freemangordonkerio: yes17:56
freemangordonand according to that -thumb uses .85 % more CPU per secon17:57
freemangordonBut I just don't understand why17:57
DocScrutinizer050.85% per second? wtf is that? an inflation magnitude?17:58
freemangordongoing to try 4.7 without thumb17:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: see the formula above17:58
DocScrutinizer05after 120s it will use 110$ of CPU?17:58
keriofreemangordon: how do we call the result, though?17:58
freemangordon <freemangordon> and according to that -thumb uses .85 % more CPU per second17:59
DocScrutinizer05I'm 35 years per minute old17:59
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: more per second17:59
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i don;t understand your point17:59
DocScrutinizer05wtf is % per second?17:59
freemangordonor better said you don;t understand what i did18:00
freemangordoncpu load18:00
freemangordonno what?18:00
DocScrutinizer05since when something is using 1% per second, it uses 3% after 3 s18:00
freemangordonthats an average for the period divided by the number of sample18:00
freemangordonor even the average of the error for the period18:01
DocScrutinizer05your savings my give 3% per year of interest18:02
DocScrutinizer05a process can hardly use % / s of CPU18:02
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I am not exactly famous with m English skills, that is why I hope you math skills are in place, so you can grok the above formula18:02
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: samples are taken every second18:03
freemangordonso if you sum them and divide by the number of samples you'll get an average CPU load per second18:04
freemangordonif "per" is not the correct english word I am pretty ok18:05
freemangordonbut that does not change the math18:05
DocScrutinizer05your average CPU usage for case A over 95 samples of 1s duration been 80.5%, for case B 94%. The *difference* are 13.5%18:06
DocScrutinizer05which is an absolute factor of 0.856382978723 slowdown18:07
freemangordonit is not absolute, as the original unit is CPU load %18:08
freemangordonthat is why unit is %/s18:08
DocScrutinizer05the ratio between the two percentages though is absolute18:08
freemangordonit is not ratio18:08
DocScrutinizer05[2012-10-28 16:54:05] <freemangordon> ~80.5/9418:08
DocScrutinizer05^^^ ratio18:08
freemangordon94 is seconds18:09
freemangordonand 80.5 in in %18:09
freemangordon*is in18:09
DocScrutinizer05dividing % by seconds is BS18:09
freemangordonno, it is not, that is how you find the average fo a given period18:10
freemangordonthe same as S=V.t :P18:10
freemangordonV=S/t is the average speed18:10
freemangordonyeah, sure18:11
raccoon_freemangordon: the average for a given period is gotten by dividing the sum of all sampled values by the number of samples.18:11
DocScrutinizer05you don't tell me you added PA CPU % of 94 samples and got 80.5 as result18:11
raccoon_but % is not a real value18:12
raccoon_oh sorry, my brain went out the window18:12
DocScrutinizer05well then nevermind, since a absolute CPU usage of <1% by PA is negligible, and also highly unlikely18:12
freemangordon SUM(thumb_cpu_usage(i)-stock_cpu_usage(i)), i=1-9418:12
freemangordonand the result of that is 80.518:12
freemangordonand IIRC this is called error18:13
DocScrutinizer05OMFG, obfuscated math formula contest18:13
freemangordonor sigma18:13
raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: help him get it right then, rather than telling he's doing it wrong...18:14
raccoon_(the formula syntax)18:14
DocScrutinizer05nah, he's doing it "right", just completely weird18:14
Skrybtw, I asked yesterday about what resampler pulse uses in maemo, didnt get the answers and still dont know what it uses but still.. pulseaudio 0.99.2 cpu usage according to top: trivial:~12%, speex-float-0:~33%, ffmpeg:~40%18:14
raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: that might be, but saying it's weird/odd/wrong is not exactly helping18:14
DocScrutinizer05and 94 is not seconds but samples, a basically unitless value18:15
freemangordonSkry: PA uses speex resampler , which is closed source18:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is in secconds if you have 94 samples taken for 94 seconds18:15
raccoon_freemangordon: he meant that your formula is not telling what 94 is18:15
raccoon_just that it should be 94 in that example18:16
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I'd calculate average for CPU usage of thumb_cpu_usage(i) for i:1..94, then do same for stock_cpu_usage(i)18:16
freemangordonmakes no difference18:16
DocScrutinizer05then you got average CPU usage of case A and B, then you can compare the two18:16
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DocScrutinizer05sure, makes no differnece in math, but in legibility18:16
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: but it makes difference if you have to deal with large numbers, you ca get overflow ;)18:17
Skryfreemangordon: whatwhat? is it some nokia hack version or what? I mean, speex is free.18:17
DocScrutinizer05modulo you'd probably notice that your 94 are not of unit 'seconds' if you'd do a well established simple average18:17
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: ack for overflow18:17
freemangordonSkry: no, it is BSD according to the bug report on bugs.maemo.org18:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that is why it looks weird, it is just the way I am used to write the code18:18
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: 94 is the number of samples, no matter if every sample is 1 or 33.8 seconds in duration18:18
DocScrutinizer05so your result are % differnece, not %/s18:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it matters if you want to know by what % is CPU load increased every second18:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yes18:19
freemangordon18:00 <freemangordon> and 80.5 in in %18:19
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DocScrutinizer05yes, it's the sigma-difference for i from 1 to 9518:20
DocScrutinizer05so you divide by 95 to get true average18:20
freemangordonSkry: there is an open bug to open the source of speex18:20
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: finally :P18:21
DocScrutinizer0595 is <number of samples you summed up>18:21
freemangordonSkry: we have NEON-optimized resampler here18:22
DocScrutinizer05seconds is not even showing up in hte whole equation18:22
freemangordonlook in debian/changelog18:22
DocScrutinizer05since i is a enum, not a seconds integer18:22
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, it could be said that way too, but i is seconds too, as the samples were taken every second18:23
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter18:23
DocScrutinizer05if your samples were 2 seconds long, the i still is 94 for 94 samples18:24
freemangordonso the functions could be f(t) as well18:24
freemangordonbut I want to average over the time, not the number of samples18:24
keriofreemangordon: maybe the NEON resampler sucks18:24
freemangordon*over the number18:24
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: alas that's not how a simple average works18:25
Skryfreemangordon: libspeex/resample_neon.h18:25
freemangordonkerio: according to changelog it speeds the things a lot18:25
freemangordonSkry: in speex-dev?18:25
Skryyes, since 201118:26
freemangordonwho is the copyright holder, Nokia?18:26
Skrypatches are from jyri sarha18:27
Skrydont know of the upstream status but patches are in speex-dev ml and used by ubuntu for example18:28
freemangordonSkry: sounds too risky to put that in -thumb18:28
Skrymm, might be18:29
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keriofreemangordon: it's probably what nokia has, actually18:29
Skryi'll check the upstream status..18:29
kerioanyway, gcc sucks at NEON18:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that is exactly how simple average over the time works18:29
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: if you'd want to do an integral average, you have to multiply each sample value by the sample duration (in seconds)  and then divide the whole thing by the sigma(duration) over all samples.  (sigma((thumb_cpu_usage(sample-i) * thumb_sample_duration(sample-i)) / sigma(thumb_sample_duration(sample-i))18:30
DocScrutinizer05so you get %*s/s = %18:30
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DocScrutinizer05the fact that all your thumb_sample_duration(sample-i) = 1second doesn't change the formula, so doesn't result in %/s18:31
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: the way I did it fits for the purpose: thumb uses more CPU than stock18:34
DocScrutinizer05yes, your calculation been correct, the units though were not18:35
freemangordonit is correct too, as if it is the average for the period, it could be average for 1 second period18:36
DocScrutinizer05and the difference is actually <1% if your calculation actually been accurate18:36
DocScrutinizer05thus negligible18:36
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freemangordonwell, it was excel to do the math18:36
DocScrutinizer05or rather, below tolerance18:36
freemangordonwell, I was expecting -thumb to behave much better than stock18:37
freemangordonmaybe I am missing something18:37
DocScrutinizer05in fact they behave more identical than anybody would expect for two runs of very same software18:37
keriofreemangordon: is this the thumby?18:37
keriowhat about the army?18:37
freemangordonthough if we have FP math all the way...18:38
freemangordonkerio: going to try it18:38
DocScrutinizer05kerio: join the army, man!18:38
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: honestly, compare arm to arm (two consecutive runs of same binary) and you'll likely find larger difference than this 0.8%18:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the point is that they shouldn't be the same18:42
keriothe thumb one should pwn the stock one18:42
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: wasn't that you I did some hardfp vs softfp simple test binary runs, and we noticed effectively 0 difference between both?18:42
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no18:43
Skrynot in upstream, but learned that speex has C64x support, whoa.18:43
freemangordonthough, if most of the stuff is done in FP, there will be no difference18:43
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freemangordonSkry: yeah, speexdsp is closed source too in maemo5 :D:D:D18:44
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I don't agree on the assumption that thumb always has to be faster than arm, since it is meant to yield compact code, not faster execution (the faster execution is a side effect under certain narrow preconditions). What I agree though is that we should see way larger differences, in whatever direction18:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: less of a thumb matter, more of a gcc4.2 vs gcc4.7-linaro matter18:45
DocScrutinizer05the smaller the program, the smaller the opportunities for compiler to optimize18:46
keriofmg: arm pls18:47
DocScrutinizer05one very interesting detail would be size of resulting binary18:47
freemangordonok, build is ready, lets see18:47
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kerioby the way, are you sure you're using the correct pulseaudio?18:48
freemangordonthe one on CSSU gitorious18:48
DocScrutinizer05I like to implement any arbitrary marker into the stuff under test, so I can tell for sure it's been this one binary that got used in the test18:49
keriono, i mean, are you sure the pulseaudio you're running is the recompiled one? :)18:49
DocScrutinizer05or what kerio says ^^^18:50
freemangordonkerio: well stop/start pulseaudio should do the trick I think18:51
kerioi'd still reboot to be sure :318:51
freemangordonlets see what arm build will give as results18:51
DocScrutinizer05a printf to stdout, listing e.g the number of processed samples/frames is usually just fine18:51
DocScrutinizer05or stderr18:51
DocScrutinizer05in "destructor"18:52
DocScrutinizer05or just before exit18:52
DocScrutinizer05or even to /dev/console or whatever18:53
DocScrutinizer05instead of to stderr18:54
freemangordonhmm, i'll reboot and retry, just for sure18:54
freemangordonas now 80.5 become 33 :D18:55
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: if you had a welcome msg printf at beginning of your new code, and a "processed %d samples. This was Version th-33" at exit, you'd notice immediately what's going on18:55
freemangordonthere is no "my new code" I am just doing dpkg-buildpackage18:56
DocScrutinizer05yes I'm aware of that18:56
freemangordonand changing flags in debian/rules18:56
DocScrutinizer05too lazy to place "your new code" into ticks18:56
DocScrutinizer05you could pass the verson string via compile parameter -D18:57
freemangordon-rwx------    1 root     root        72784 Oct 28  2012 /usr/bin/pulseaudio18:58
DocScrutinizer05do a logger printout to syslog18:58
freemangordonstill the same after the reboot18:58
freemangordoncould it be that PA does not actually do much job?19:00
DocScrutinizer0572768 here19:00
DocScrutinizer05well, the whole stuff is piped thru gstreamer afaik, by mafw19:01
freemangordonso we have only 16 bytes difference between 4.2.1 and 4.7.2? WTF?19:02
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/pulseaudio19:03
DocScrutinizer05-rwx------ 1 root root 72768 2010-06-14 15:32 /usr/bin/pulseaudio19:03
freemangordongoing to try -Os19:03
keriofreemangordon: this is the ARM one, right?19:03
kerioso... compiling in ARM gave us a giant reduction?19:04
freemangordonyeah, 16 bytes more19:04
keriook, gimme that package :£19:04
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon:   795 pulse     12  -8 83192 6912 2424 S 21.6  2.8   5:16.93 pulseaudio19:07
freemangordonwhat is it?19:07
freemangordontotal CPU usage?19:08
DocScrutinizer05top output for >>  while play-sound /home/opt/usr/share/osso-lmarbles/sounds/alarm.wav; do :; done  <<19:08
DocScrutinizer05yep, CPU usage19:08
DocScrutinizer05no other process used significant CPU19:09
kerioi wonder... what's the CPU usage when on speaker and when using BT headphones?19:09
freemangordonhmm, makes sense to check that19:12
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freemangordonhmm, -Os produced binary which is about 68k ARM build, but not much of a difference in CPU usage19:29
freemangordonso it seems it is not PA itself that uses the CPU , most probably it is the closed packages that do :(19:30
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freemangordonkerio: connecting BT HF drops CPU usage by a couple of %19:39
keriohm, is that HFP/HSP or A2DP?19:39
freemangordonactually it streams to my PC, but I am almost sure it is not a2dp19:40
keriois it stereo?19:40
kerioactually, easier question:19:40
freemangordonhmm, it is a2dp19:40
keriodoes it sound like shit?19:40
freemangordonno, it sound ok19:40
keriothen it's a2dp :)19:40
freemangordonyes it is, i checked19:40
keriostupid lowpass filter19:40
freemangordonhmm, actually lowpass filter seems to take only 5 or so % , which is not that much19:41
freemangordonon 250 is that19:41
freemangordonit seems it is the resampler to eat the cpu19:42
freemangordonor better said I am out of ideas :D19:42
freemangordonthough in upstream PA there are some NEON optimizations, maybe I can backport them to check if it will be better19:44
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ShadowJKSkry; sure19:51
keriofreemangordon: anyway, the arm-compiled PA is faster than the stock one, right?19:51
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freemangordonkerio: no19:59
freemangordonit is the same20:00
freemangordonBTW changing resample-method = trivial drops CPU usage by 10%20:00
keriowhat had the giant advantage then?20:00
freemangordonin /etc/pulse/daemon.conf20:00
keriofreemangordon: that's cheating20:00
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freemangordonI know20:01
freemangordonBut at least gives clue who is using the CPU20:02
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keriofreemangordon: it's audibly worsse20:02
keriomuch, much worse20:02
kerioi wonder why it needs to resample to A2DP20:03
keriohrmpf, is there a reason 48kHz is the default samplerate?20:04
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keriosetting it to 44.1kHz has no adverse effects, it seems20:09
keriohm, why are we using pulseaudio 0.9 when the current release is 2.1?20:14
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DocScrutinizer05because nobody dared to update stuff since maemo5 birth?20:19
DocScrutinizer05becuae the closed blobs wouldn't fit into any newer version, since we can't compile them?20:19
MrPingui wonder if it's really thumb that's giving the benefits or just the updated gcc 4.7.2-linaro (no proof though)20:20
merlin1991kerio: because the closed plugins depend on the internal pulse api and this you can't pimp its version20:20
DocScrutinizer05or that ;-)20:20
keriowhy do we need the closed plugins?20:20
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kerioMrPingu: there are no benefits!20:20
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freemangordonmerlin1991: though we can backport what worths, i saw some NEON optimized conversion routines20:20
DocScrutinizer05because we love our speakers and the decent phone audio quality20:20
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SkryShadowJK: ok thanks, that's a great script. I added led control, logging to syslog, isp1704 charger detection and adapted it to be used with udev. Does the job quite nicely.20:21
MrPinguKerio: With benefits I mean the smaller binarysize ;)20:22
DocScrutinizer05though it seems to me cmtspeech is actually open, just XPROT is closed20:22
keriowhat's XPROT?20:22
DocScrutinizer05speaker protection20:22
DocScrutinizer05Skry: isp1704 charger detection might mess up things as soon as you're running it with established USB session20:23
keriowhich can be done *in hardware* via the equalizer20:23
freemangordongoing to try to backport that20:23
freemangordon"main" CSSU will benefit from it too if I succeed20:24
SkryDocScrutinizer05: it only does detecting if charger is present and gets charger type for logging purposes20:24
Skrykerio: nemo has 2.1, modules from meego/mer are ported, not sure if they have call audio with it yet.20:25
DocScrutinizer05Skry: sorry when "charger detection runs only when charger detected" doesn't make sense to me20:25
SkryDocScrutinizer05: uhm? udev launches script if it detects power supply event, script checks if isp1407 reports charger and continues accordingly. Perhaps it should be done more properly via more exact udev rule but i have no interest digging into udev insides more than I already know.20:30
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kerio<theRaisse> we sold the n9, then he left the n950 on a train20:47
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invariantHow can I configure which accounts or messages lead to vibration?21:02
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DocScrutinizer05invariant: I don't think there's such config option21:08
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invariantWhat is the best irc client for n900 which allows setting port number?21:18
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kerioinvariant: xchat21:20
invariantInstallation corrupted. Yes/no21:21
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invariantInteresting message21:21
invariantWhat should I pick?21:21
kerioinvariant: installation of what?21:22
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DocScrutinizer05~seen qwazix22:00
infobotqwazix <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 7h 49m 10s ago, saying: 'who's got a Nexus 7? Native ubuntu on it since yesterday, with hildon on it could be almost maemo.'.22:00
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DocScrutinizer05WTF, Ducky died?22:16
DocScrutinizer05Dr. Mellard :-o22:16
keriowho died? :o22:17
Cor-AiDocScrutinizer05: your fucking kiding me?!22:18
DocScrutinizer05>>While walking on a beach, Ducky suffered a heart attack in the season nine finale, "Till Death Do Us Part", after hearing about the bomb blast at NCIS headquarters and then is seen lying, motionless on a beach. In "Extreme Prejudice", it is shown that he's alive and receiving treatment thanks to Jimmy Palmer finding him. <<22:19
Cor-Aithats old news :p22:20
DocScrutinizer05not here ;-)22:20
Cor-Aihaha :p22:21
Cor-Aithats last sesson!22:21
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Cor-AiI thought you spoil :p22:23
DocScrutinizer05nah, i'm not a partypooper22:25
DocScrutinizer05the bad news: next Sunday evening I won't watch next episode of NCIS22:26
DocScrutinizer05since I bet they introduce another 3 months minimum pause before starting next (10th) season22:27
Cor-Aihmm.. that sux.. :/22:28
DocScrutinizer05judging by rating, the 10th season must be even better:
Cor-Aihaha nice :D22:31
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Cor-Aithink we are at s09 e05 or something in swe :p22:35
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