IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-10-13

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DocScrutinizer05already turned my neighbour's trees pink00:00
DocScrutinizer05~mthel is
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay00:02
DocScrutinizer05 look at lower left side, the exhaust fumes, pure H2F00:09
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merlin1991Pali: pong00:12
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Palimerlin1991, I have new uboot build00:13
Palican you test it?00:13
merlin1991Pali: sure, gimme a link, and I'll report back when I checked it :)00:16
Paliit also should turn off n900 led00:16
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: just that it's not ordinary H2, it's Deuterium00:17
DocScrutinizer05(needed to push laser wavelength into a transparent window of atmosphere)00:18
DocScrutinizer05with normal hydrogen the laser beanm would die after 10m00:19
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DocScrutinizer05anyway except for pink countryside an MTHEL makes for a nice BBQ00:21
DocScrutinizer05just Deuterium gas is a tad hard to refill00:21
DocScrutinizer05watch the variolight alike reflector moving 2 degrees of freedom, and wonder how they managed to feed the laser light in there00:24
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DocScrutinizer05must be glasfibre00:32
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DocScrutinizer05raw megawatts of pure photonic energy, awesome00:46
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* DocScrutinizer05 sends Mohammad- to next weekend surplus auction to get another two MTHEL00:57
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DocScrutinizer05just weird why IL doesn't use them to stop that junk flying over from Gaza00:58
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Palimerlin1991, is new uboot working?01:01
* DocScrutinizer05 suspect wind direction being the culprit01:01
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merlin1991sry, I got sidetracked, but now I'm on it01:02
DocScrutinizer05if wind would take that H2F cloud direction Gaza reliably, they already would shoot down each white pigeon crossing the border01:02
DocScrutinizer05Pali: whatever else I find cool or not-my-style on, you should make the sleeep delays configurable01:04
DocScrutinizer054s is probably rather short to discharge all the buffer capacitors on VBUS so you can drop USB session and switch speed01:05
DocScrutinizer05you better check session status and delay proceeding until session dropped01:06
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DocScrutinizer05(you can get session status from musb-hdrc status byte, iirc)01:06
DocScrutinizer05also enabling charging mode on bq24150 chip might speed up discharging01:07
DocScrutinizer05and finally there's a discharge command for PHY, although flawed on hw level by a useless 1k resistor01:08
DocScrutinizer05~curse mentorgrafucks musb-hdrc controller01:09
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, mentorgrafucks musb-hdrc controller !01:09
DocScrutinizer05we've witnessed >30s without session dropping when we tested stuff back in the days of h-e-n prototyping01:11
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: first approach would be to wait for /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus to go 001:12
DocScrutinizer05and _then_ some more seconds01:12
FIQ|n900windows xp isn't that bad compared to other windows01:13
merlin1991Pali: it boots01:14
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Palimerlin1991, nice :-)01:15
PaliDocScrutinizer05, ok01:15
Palimerlin1991 and turn it led off?01:16
merlin1991I didn't follow it closely, when should the led go off?01:16
DocScrutinizer05LED? why is LED on, first instance?01:16
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DocScrutinizer05emergency charger steady yellow?01:17
DocScrutinizer05or some friggin LP5523 driven pattern?01:17
merlin1991led runs from the boot shit01:18
merlin1991when you press the power button it is white01:18
merlin1991and when uboot starts it stays white01:18
merlin1991but Pali the led did turn off01:18
DocScrutinizer05it's funny enough that NOLO has yellow charger pattern hardcoded, you'll notice that as soon as you define something different for MCE charger pattern01:18
Pali LP5523 driven pattern "device start up"01:19
DocScrutinizer05so another NOLO crap01:19
ShadowJKIn another channel once, I saw this guy who said he once coded a 3D fps game into nokia's bootloader, but it got removed once it was discovered :o(01:19
Palisome white color01:19
Paliyes, by NOLO01:19
Paliwhen you press power button01:19
merlin1991so pali, what's new in this setup?01:20
DocScrutinizer05I'd replace that by a very unique uBoot turquoise01:20
Palimerlin1991, disabled onenand code which enabled booting01:21
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merlin1991so basically what fmg did?01:21
Palirewritten assembler code for uboot relocation01:21
Palireusing bootmode from NOLO01:22
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Paliadded variables setup_boot_reason_atag and setup_boot_mode_atag for changing ATAGS01:22
merlin1991oh quite a few things then :D01:22
merlin1991hm what's the quickest way to start a local http server for some time?01:22
DocScrutinizer05no turquoise LED though :-S01:22
Paliignore zero size ATAG_MEM01:23
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Palireset lp5523 led01:23
DocScrutinizer05on KDE there's some ultra silly taskbar applet01:23
merlin1991xfce ;)01:23
Pali+ rebased on last uboot master01:23
DocScrutinizer05hmm, there's some http server called like a jet fighter plane01:24
DocScrutinizer05written in perl or sth01:24
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DocScrutinizer05basically a scriptie01:25
DocScrutinizer05Werner Almesberger using it for instance01:25
merlin1991damn I need to deploy my new pubkey to ~8 devices01:27
merlin1991the joys of setting up a new laptop01:27
DocScrutinizer05was it tomcat?01:27
merlin1991tomcat is an apache java ee shit plugin crap thingy01:27
HurrianPali, when I build u-boot-shr/pali from git, it displays "u-boot 2012.04.01"01:28
DocScrutinizer05aaah java01:28
PaliHurrian, changes not pushed yet01:28
PaliI'm still testing new build01:28
* merlin1991 just installs lighttpd apt-get purge is there for a reason :D01:29
Hurrianeven the slide detection patch was not pushed?01:29
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merlin1991I have to say I missed the swapping desktops like a madman on a single screen01:31
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DocScrutinizer05I think I heard of before01:33
merlin1991 fs corruption /me smells oc user01:34
DocScrutinizer05I think i won't change my tmo signature01:35
DocScrutinizer05Oc is 133701:35
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: this sounds like PEBKAC though01:38
merlin1991well he has a corrupted dpkg database I bet it's not purely his fault01:38
DocScrutinizer05apt-get install   mp-fremantle-generic-pr ;# C'MON01:38
DocScrutinizer05anyway, >>dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/available` near line 37064<< rrrright, corrupt db01:41
merlin1991he's not going to get there with foobar dpkg01:41
DocScrutinizer05BM FTW01:42
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PaliHurrian, detection of closed/open keyboard is already here01:45
Paliif you have closed keyboard u-boot will boot automatically attached kernel (or other which is configured)01:46
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# du -h /var/lib/dpkg/01:46
DocScrutinizer0527M     /var/lib/dpkg/info01:46
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# df -h /var/lib/dpkg/info01:47
DocScrutinizer05Dateisystem           Size  Used Avail Use% EingehÃĪngt auf01:47
DocScrutinizer05ubi0:rootfs           228M  169M   56M  76% /01:47
DocScrutinizer05double -- :-/01:47
DocScrutinizer0533M     /var/lib/dpkg/01:48
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# du -h /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive01:52
DocScrutinizer0523M     /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive01:52
HurrianPali, which branch? I tried building remotes/origin/pali and it's not there01:52
DocScrutinizer05even almost as insane01:52
PaliHurrian, I did not pushed new changes yet01:53
Palibut it will be in branch pali01:53
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DocScrutinizer0556MB for mere cruft01:53
DocScrutinizer05on precious rootfs01:54
DocScrutinizer05hell, my fist linux ran on a PC with a HARDISK of smaller size than those two01:54
merlin1991hah, the fun of setting up a new scratchbox01:56
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DocScrutinizer05and honestly, you could easily nuke that insane locale cache, drop shit like cn_CN (sorry fellas ^_^)01:57
DocScrutinizer05if only Nokia would've considered shipping the plain locale files for each lang separately01:58
DocScrutinizer05or even better, would've used sane en_EN or at least technical-english strings in their binaries, rather than that tana_fi_foobar crap01:59
PaliNow I have patch for Maemo which ask when somebody going to flash kernel fia fiasco-image-update01:59
Palikernel-*flasher and u-boot-flasher packages using it02:00
Paliso now we can fix problem with Provides lines02:00
DocScrutinizer05sounds like a good idea02:00
DocScrutinizer05just I wonder if it will fsckup unattended installs02:00
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merlin1991hehe, but I have lighttpd set up now :P02:07
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: refresh!02:12
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: friggin qibot updates logs every 30 min only02:12
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Palicode is here:
Paliit is deb package which patch fiasco-image-update to ask for flashing kernel image if version string change02:29
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merlin1991phew finally finished the scratchbox targets02:44
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SpeedEvilwow. has word services. for example, a mobile SIM that terminates on a SIP server of your choice03:02
SpeedEvilweird services03:02
Palimerlin1991, freemangordon, needs testing:
PaliI want that u-boot will depends on this package03:03
Paliand kernel-power too03:03
merlin1991how is that going to fly in -ex03:03
merlin1991so you want to push it to extras?03:04
Palifirst it needs to be tested03:04
merlin1991otherwise you make kernel-power cssu-only03:04
Paliand then yes, to extras (because of uboot & kernel-power)03:04
merlin1991I'll check it out as soon as I can03:04
Paliit allow to install -flasher package (for deb provides) without flashing image...03:05
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: [2012-10-13 01:43:46] <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: my fixes are in the regular awhttpd sources,
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AndrewX192Is it possible to get maps for the N900 without using the PC software?04:04
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nox-and there also is osm based
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AndrewX192nox-: that site it links to was hacked04:21
AndrewX192so where do I get the files from?04:21
nox-dunno guess youll have to wait for it to be cleaned04:22
nox-or use osm...04:22
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TTilusAndrewX192: ive got ovi maps and don't remember how i got them, just that it most certainly was not via pc09:42
TTilusoh, it was about the map tiles09:44
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Palimerlin1991, I updated that package fiasco-image-update-ask because busybox tr and sed applet is buggy12:13
freemangordonI really don't get it why vibra should be of class input in 3.5.4 :(12:14
freemangordonPali: wanna patches?12:14
Palifreemangordon, vibra is still in /drivers/input??12:15
PaliI'd like to see12:15
freemangordonyes :D12:15
freemangordonPali: vibra is in /sys/class/input12:16
freemangordonon stock it is in /sys/class/leds12:16
Paliah, on maemo kernel it is in leds :D12:16
Paliand in upstream in input :D12:16
Palinice :D:D12:16
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Palisomebody should send patch which move vibra to filesystem subtree :-)12:17
Palifreemangordon, I have deb package which patch fiasco flashing to ask user if want to change kernel12:17
Palipackage is now ready for testing12:17
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freemangordonPali: i really cannot imagine what tipe of input is vibra12:20
Palifreemangordon, in maemo kernel IR TX is in input too :D12:21
freemangordonthis should be in leds if you ask me12:21
freemangordonPali: if you try those patches, have in mind you'll need to rename startup-pin-query, I don;t know why it hangs12:22
Palifreemangordon, are you going to create some git repo for it?12:23
freemangordonmaybe after all ssi driver is not compatible with maemo, though I think I got it running once12:23
freemangordonPali: should I12:23
freemangordonI am only playing with it for the sake om the play12:23
freemangordoneven if i have 3.5.4 perfectly running with maemo, what to do with it?12:24
freemangordonthough if i have an answer to the above question, maybe I can do some serious work12:24
Paliand bme?12:25
freemangordonwhat about it?12:25
Palidid you deleted it?12:25
freemangordonapt-get uninstall :D12:26
Paliand what other did you changed/deleted for upstream kernelM12:26
freemangordonused your script, and renamed startup-pin-query and rtcomm-phone-ui12:27
freemangordonthat is12:27
freemangordonand in /etc/event.../scg i commented some framebuffer trickery12:28
Palimaybe you can create wiki, how to do it...12:28
freemangordonbut now when booted, mce and 2 hal pugins use 100% of CPU12:28
freemangordonPali: what for?12:28
Paliall changes in maemo system12:29
freemangordonwho and why will use that?12:29
PaliI can look at it later for better support12:29
freemangordonPali: ok, but besides POC what is the benefit of that?12:30
freemangordonI mean, are we going to push 3x kenel in CSSU? I doubtt.12:31
Palifor upstreaming charger driver I need to test it on upstream kernel12:31
Paliso upstream kernel on maemo will be good for testing...12:31
freemangordonaah, i see12:31
Paliwe can push upstream kernel to extras-devel12:31
freemangordonwell, the patches are enough for it, you have maemo booting12:32
freemangordonPali: come on, it needs tons of work12:32
freemangordonand I am not sure you can compile it with gcc4.2.112:32
freemangordonI am using my thumb toolchain12:32
PaliI have on ubuntu: gcc version 4.6.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5)12:33
Pali(arm cross)12:33
freemangordonyes, but pushing it in extras needs autobuilder approval :D12:33
Paliyes :-)12:33
freemangordonand iirc even meego kernel refused to build with 4.2.112:34
freemangordon2.6.37 or something12:34
Paliwhat about to create package of new toolchain and push it to extras-devel?12:34
freemangordonjust imagine how will 3.5 complain12:34
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Paliunder some other name12:34
freemangordonPali: to compile on the device?12:35
Palino, to compile it under autobuilder12:35
freemangordonor for scratchbox, i don;t get the idea12:35
Paliall toolchain executables will have different name (version prefix - name of app)12:36
freemangordonwell, there is tgz12:36
Paliand if you call that executables with correct name, scratchbox will not rewrite it for internal compiler12:36
Palithere is only one problem, compiler in extras-devel in arm must be native compiler12:37
Paliso compilation will be very slow12:37
Pali... but who cares in autobuilder? :-)12:37
freemangordonaah, i see.12:37
freemangordonbut that means libstdc++ and libgcc in extras too12:38
freemangordonand that is CSSU suff ;)12:38
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Paliwhat about static linked compiler?12:38
freemangordonyou need those on the device12:39
Palikernel does not need libgcc libc or std++12:39
freemangordonPali: this is massive amount of work I still wail to see the benefit of12:40
Paliok :-)12:40
Palibtw, can you test fiasco-image-update-ask deb?12:40
freemangordonPali: have in mind ompa PM in upstream is baaad12:40
freemangordonif exists at all12:41
freemangordonPali: what I need to do to test it?12:41
Paliinstall that package and then start to install/reinstall -flasher packages12:41
Paliwhen you change kernel (e.g stock --> kernel-power or kernel --> uboot) it should ask you if you wan to flash it12:42
Paliand if you going to upgrade (kp51 --> kp52) it should not ask12:42
Paliit checking version in /dev/mtd<kernel> and new version12:43
Paliit can extract version from zImage or u-boot or zImage attached in u-boot12:43
freemangordonyeah, got it12:43
Pali(now it ignore attached zImage in u-boot)12:44
freemangordoni'd rather leave that to someone else :)12:44
Paliand I have prapared package kernel-bootimg which contains zImage of stock kernel in /boot/ and item file in /etc/bootmenu.d/12:45
Paliwhich is needed for building u-boot12:45
PaliI will push it to extras-devel12:46
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freemangordonPali: any development with romaxa's work?12:47
Paliwhat do you mean?12:47
freemangordonhmm, i thought it will tweak browser rotation12:48
infobotfreemangordon meant: hmm, i thought he will tweak browser rotation12:48
freemangordonprobably misunderstood something12:48
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freemangordonPali: I am getting "Paly away" messages12:49
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smharI just got myself a Samsung  Note 2 mobile. I copied all contacts using csv file transferred by bluetooth. Now I want to transfer the messages. Is there a way to do this?14:19
kerioyou traitor!14:24
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DocScrutinizer06smhar: hardly14:26
DocScrutinizer06unlike contacts, msgs are generally not considered worthy for ex/import it seems14:27
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DocScrutinizer06you probably could extract all SMS and IM msgs from events_v1.db14:28
DocScrutinizer06with a sqlite frontend14:29
smharkerio, I am not getting rid of my N900, I can not do this. it is just that it is showing its age, in terms of hardware, that I can not depend on it fully for work.14:29
smharkerio, I had the option between iphone and galaxy note and I chose the least evil :-)14:30
* kerio doubts the n900 isn't dependable for "work" that's not a physics simulator or something equally silly14:31
smharkerio, I did not say it is not dependable for work. I have been using it for work and personal use for ages. It is just that it has several deep scratches that makes reading hard. Also, its readability in sun -as my work requires- is not very good.14:34
smharkerio, I also need a portable dwg file viewer that is not available in N90014:35
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kerioi thought there weren't many transreflective screens for mobiles, but ok14:36
keriohaving to open autocad projects is a valid concern, i s'pose14:36
FlameReaper-nemoopening autocad projects on a mobile?14:39
FlameReaper-nemoI thought a workstation would be more practical but I wonder14:39
FlameReaper-nemoany use case for that?14:39
smharFlameReaper-nemo, viewing them, not editing them. it is very feasible in a note 2 size mobile14:40
smharFlameReaper-nemo, I need to have a copy of the drawing with me and to check dimensions of items while walking in the site14:40
FlameReaper-nemothat would be reasonable14:41
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DocScrutinizer06[general notice] Maemo Council nomination period extended until 28. of this month, PLEASE CONSIDER self-nomination, it doesn't need any super-powers14:56
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vi__why cant I play music when on a call?15:13
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vi__I thought pulse audio could do that sort of thing?15:14
vi__even symbian could!15:14
keriopulseaudio most definetely can15:16
kerioand pulseaudio most definetely doesn't want to15:16
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keriobecause it hates you15:16
vi__so why cant I play music when on a call?15:17
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keriobecause pulseaudio hates you15:21
kerioor maybe because of some weird nokia policy, ask Pali15:21
Palivi__, you need to patch prolog code which disabling it15:22
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kerioPali: does it disable every other sound?15:23
Palikerio, I do not know15:24
Palivi__, decompiled prolog source code is here:
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ZogG_laptopPali: there is prolog used somewhere? :P15:33
PaliZogG_laptop, yes15:34
Paliauto routing, linux cgroups, ...15:34
ZogG_laptopi had it this semester (visual prolog) - it's wierd language i would say15:34
Palialsa/pulseaudio/phone call policy15:34
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PaliI had prolog last semester too :-) and this is why I was able to decompile it and fix problems15:36
Palilike headset button worked only when phone call was active15:36
ZogG_laptopi missed most lessons and have no idea what's going on with it. still need to make project for that course (pipe ania game)15:36
Paliprolog is good for logical programming15:37
jogacool detail :)15:38
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vi__Pali: make it so I can play music while on a call and I will buy you an pizza.15:42
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DocScrutinizer05damn Prolog. Couldn't they use inuktitut instead of Prolog? So at least google-translate would *maybe* convert it to something meaningful for me16:01
jaskaoh yeah, thats better16:05
kerioi wonder if the n900 has enough resources to emulate the DS properly16:05
kerionintendo ds16:06
kerio67.028MHz arm9 and 33.514MHz arm716:06
kerioand then some kind of graphical chip16:06
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DocScrutinizer05while CPU emu is rarely ever a problem, emulating GFX accel is next to impossible in realtime16:20
DocScrutinizer05depending on architecture/properties a gfx accel performs 10s to 1000s of times better than a similarly 'fast' CPU on same task16:21
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DocScrutinizer05and the problem with emulating GFX accel is: the app and libs it uses are all optimized to the very special properties of the gfx accel, so the CPU emulating it has to do rather silly things to emulate some function that helps accel to perform better but costs CPU additional cycles to emulate, while you hardly can optimize much for the real video driven by the CPU16:24
kerioDocScrutinizer05: this, assuming you want to emulate the GPU exactly, mame-style16:26
kerioit's the reason mame sucks balls for 3d games :)16:26
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keriohuh, there *is* desmume for the n90016:28
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keriohaha i get a whopping 2fps16:34
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ZogG_laptop: any URL/pointer for me to read a 30min "Prolog for dummies"? Those "sources" Pali liked to, above, are like hieroglyphs to me16:35
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: don't go there! that's the road to insanity!16:40
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: look at or
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DocScrutinizer05EEEW I feel nausea after first 10 lines of code on fist page of introduction: .oO("WTF comes in 'D'???")17:02
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DocScrutinizer05and the insanity of closing a large structure (like an "IF" statement) with an almost invisible "." already drove me and all my colleagues mad in early 80s of last century, when we used to substitute "." by ". NOTE dot." in COBOL17:05
DocScrutinizer05and COBOL been derided as "compilable prosa" even back then17:08
DocScrutinizer05so Prolog seems to be "compilable dadaism poems"17:08
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DocScrutinizer05aaah, I see >> At the same time, early 1970's, Colmerauer and his group at the University of Marseille-Aix developed a specialized theorem prover... << now that contains two key factoids for me: University of Marseille-Aix, and 1970.17:14
DocScrutinizer05adding to that the generally somewhat inverse grammatics of French language (and thinking, it seems), makes for a perfect first characterization of Prolog's origin17:16
PaliDocScrutinizer05 in prolog char ',' is && (and) and char ';' is || (or)17:18
Palinext ',' has higher priority then ';'17:18
DocScrutinizer05OK, you win! I give up17:19
Paliand prolog has unification17:19
Palithere is no assign operator17:20
Pali'=' is used for unification17:20
DocScrutinizer05>>Thus you can load more programs into the database but be careful whether the programs do not use the procedures with the same name. Otherwise, because of cumulating of clauses, these procedures could behave incorrectly.<< SUUUURE17:22
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DocScrutinizer05you know, one of the minor functions of my first really huge project (>1 manyear) been to overcome the problems in COBOL that originate from COPY statements (== include <filename>), insane way of COBOL defining var structures (05 structure-a. 10 member-of-05 PIC 99,999 DISPLAY.) and the fact that COPY statements can't work inside COPY elements (an include file can't include further files)17:27
DocScrutinizer05so I worked 1 year to create a data dictionary to get proper system wide type definitions (e.g for timestamp, consisting of 20 timestamp. 25 year PIC 9999. 25 time. 30 hour PIC 99. 30 min PIC 99. 30 sec PIC 99) into COBOL17:31
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DocScrutinizer05well, I forgot month and day-of-month var definitions in above copy element17:32
DocScrutinizer05anyway PROLOG seems worse than COBOL17:33
jaskathere are worse things.. like erlang, reusing prologs syntax for a nearly general purpose language17:39
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DocScrutinizer05  >>A COPY statement can occur anywhere a character-string or a separator can occur except that a COPY statement must not occur within another COPY statement<<17:43
DocScrutinizer05>>The text produced as a result of the complete processing of a COPY statement must not contain a COPY statement.  <<17:45
kerioPali: i'm bored17:47
keriogive me something to test17:47
Skrykerio: testing is boring. fix bluetooth driver and send me teh diffs.17:48
kerioSkry: no u17:48
kerioalso, what's broken in the bt driver? :o17:48
Skryits old17:49
kerioPali: hm, how would i test that? i've got kp52 already17:49
Palikerio, reinstall kernel and kernel-flasher packages17:50
Palior reinstall other -flasher package17:50
keriohrmpf, i don't have the KP52 debs anymore17:51
PaliI mean to reinstall stock kernel packages17:51
kerioPali: oooooh17:51
Paliyou should be able to reject flashing17:51
kerio...weird, kernel doesn't depend on kernel-modules17:52
Paliist ok17:52
Palikernel is only flashable image17:52
Palikernel-flasher depends on modules17:52
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kerioPali: kernel-flasher doesn't depend on modules either17:53
Palithen it is bug17:53
Paliwhich is fixed in kernel-power :-)17:53
kerioPali: i'm talking about the stock stuff17:53
kerioyou know, the kind of stuff that has botched deps due to the fucking metapackage17:53
DocScrutinizer05~lart MP17:54
* infobot pulls out his louisville slugger and uses MP's head to break the homerun record17:54
kerioanyway, "the version of the new kernel isn't similar to the old one"17:54
kerioand i was able to abort the flashing17:54
Paliits ok17:54
kerioPali: if you want more testing, release KP52 :P17:55
PaliI'm still waiting for some patches17:55
kerioPali: canceling the flash could be disastrous if you're doing a HAM system update17:55
* kerio looks at cssu-thumb17:56
Palikerio, canceling flash is not fail17:56
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kerioPali: that's the whole point17:56
Paliit is ok, because it allow us to install kernel-power-flasher without need to flash image to nand (where can be uboot)17:57
kerioPali: but k-p-f depends on the k-p package17:57
Paliwe already talked about it and this was ony one solution17:57
Palikerio, it is problem?17:57
keriowell, you'll have the fiasco image in /boot wasting space17:57
Paliit is deleted too17:58
kerioi suppose it's fine, then17:58
Paliif you cancel flash or not it is deleted by shell script by nokia17:58
PaliI only patched that script to ask user17:58
kerioas long as you don't cancel the flashing of kernel-cssu as you're installing cssu-thumb XD17:58
kerioPali: btw, why can't uboot boot from a fiasco image of a kernel?17:59
Palibecause fiasco is proprietary format and nobody have time to implement it in uboot17:59
Paliuboot using standard mkimage format17:59
* DocScrutinizer05 feels this tweak to basic operation principles and concept of kernel flashing needs some more public discussion18:00
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I think we already had discussion about it18:00
Paliand there is task on garage:
Palidate 2012-03-1418:01
kerioPali: btw, don't you have an uboot to test on weird hw revs?18:01
Palikerio, yes testing version of uboot is already here in chanlog18:02
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: wasn't aware of that, and probably missed the public discussion when it happened18:03
kerioPali: ugh, do you have one with kernel-power attached? :318:03
Palikerio, no18:04
kerioi don't have the stock modules and i can't boot with it anyway18:04
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: however a user query probably isn't the solution to what been the task description. It more feels like trying to solve the problem that resulted in defining that task18:06
PaliDocScrutinizer05, and what is better? do not ask user and ignore flashing?18:07
Paliif you updating kp (51 to 52) then it not ask for flashing18:08
DocScrutinizer05Pali: the rationale behind "we need a way to tell which kernel is installed, so we don't do nasty" seems to be we need to implement that check on a higher level, more early and for more than mere flashing of kernel. We also might need to check same result for flashing of kernel modules for example18:08
Palibut if you have stock and going to install kp then it ask18:08
PaliDocScrutinizer05, now it extract version from /dev/mtd<something> and compare it with new version in fiasco zImage18:09
Paliit can detect version of linux kernel in zImage and version of u-boot18:10
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, that's all fine for solving the task, as long as we get a function-call that can get used in arbitrary situations (like module installation)18:10
DocScrutinizer05already implementing a query into kernel flasher is beyond task 198018:11
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: I'm just saying you over-committed task 1980, your solution should get split into the mere check for kernel version (goes to 1980) plus the actual using of it which shouldn't go there but is some other/new task already18:13
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DocScrutinizer05I admit the wording of task-1980 been a bit fuzzy18:16
DocScrutinizer05the >> prevent flashing over user kernels.<< part is a comment aiui, not part of the task18:17
DocScrutinizer05particularly it's not a complete definition of the implied task to avoid messing with any kernel related stuff. This includes more than "to prevent flashing over user kernels.", it also needs consideration in other related actions like updating kernel modules, installing stuff that depends on certain kernel properties that we don't have a PROVIDES for, etc18:20
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DocScrutinizer05that's what I meant about "we might need public discussion"18:21
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DocScrutinizer051980 should get a solution that looks like "added binary and source for `kernel version <versionstring>' which will return 0 if version is met, return -1 otherwise"18:24
DocScrutinizer05s/el ve/elve/18:24
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: 1980 should get a solution that looks like "added binary and source for `kernelversion <versionstring>' which will return 0 if version is met, return -1 otherwise"18:24
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: of course this command `kernelversion` probably needs a little bit more smart features, like comparing kernel version against wildcards/regex, checking for kernel version >= or < something, etc. I haven't thought thoroughly about proper spec for that command18:34
DocScrutinizer05anyway result of task1980 should be re-usable by others, without them needing to `RE` your .deb or sourcecode18:36
DocScrutinizer05Pali: maybe is exactly that, but then it needs a README to explain how to use it18:38
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, actually after having a glimpse at sourcecode, it actually is exactly what I asked for (it seems), just I wasn't able to see it as the README is missing as well as any short statement in about how it works18:44
DocScrutinizer05(funny how poject_task_id in URL seems pragma_base0 aka RL-ID-- )18:45
DocScrutinizer05nevermind, it seems it actually _is_ task 197918:46
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I guess I got completely fooled by the title of your git/bazaar branch "maemo_fiasco-image-update-ask" - I took that as being specifically for fiasco-updates which it clearly isn't (ment to be)18:50
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DocScrutinizer05pondering the whole problem, I wonder if we ever need anything beyond >> if [ "b8db739ea8f2aec4da18ddd550791590" == $( md5sum /dev/mtd3ro ) ]; then...<<19:00
DocScrutinizer05>> if [ "b8db739ea8f2aec4da18ddd550791590" == $( md5sum /dev/mtd3ro | cut -d " " -f 1) ]; then...<< actually19:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: if md5sum -c /tmp/oldkernelmd5 --status ; then19:05
kerioneat, busybox md5sum has -c and -s19:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i'm not sure you can read from mtd3ro like that and get a sensible result, though19:06
kerioi'd nanddump19:06
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DocScrutinizer05huh? sure you can19:11
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you mean because of bad blocks19:11
DocScrutinizer05nice catch19:11
DocScrutinizer05yeah, nanddump (or mtd_debug) should solve that problem19:12
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kerio interesting symbian post-mortem19:32
DocScrutinizer05ffs, my IroN900 just needed a reboot to re-establsih WLAN connectivity. Though it claimed wlan0 being up and having proper IP, not a single ping went out to AP19:32
keriowait, the one with the huge uptime? D:19:33
DocScrutinizer05not even going offline mode (airplane mode) and back helped to re-establish proper connectivity19:33
keriostop icd start icd?19:33
DocScrutinizer05t900:~# uptime19:34
DocScrutinizer05 18:46:12 up 196 days, 19:41, load average: 0.06, 0.01, 0.0019:34
ShadowJKifconfig wlan0 down ; rmmod wl1152 (or whatever) ; modprobe wl115219:34
* ShadowJK forgets name of wireless module 19:35
DocScrutinizer05syslog claimed exactly that happened several times this afternoon19:35
ShadowJKit never gets unloaded on n900 afaik19:35
ShadowJKthough on maemo4 it seems like it does19:36
DocScrutinizer05Oct 13 15:27:51 IroN900 kernel: [115214.154632] wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a78019:36
DocScrutinizer05Oct 13 15:27:51 IroN900 kernel: [115214.170135] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev
DocScrutinizer05Oct 13 15:27:52 IroN900 wlancond[1606]: Scan issued19:36
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ShadowJKthat's not full unload19:40
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ShadowJK[15763.458465] wl1251: unloaded19:41
ShadowJK[15767.411132] phy1: Selected rate control algorithm 'minstrel'19:41
ShadowJK[15767.416992] wl1251: loaded19:41
ShadowJK[15767.417510] wl1251: initialized19:42
Palisudo rmmod wl12xx19:42
Palisudo modprobe wl12xx19:42
Palisudo wl1251-cal19:42
Palisudo stop -q wlancond19:42
ShadowJK(after that it requests firmware and loads firmware, 2 times, then it does as DocScrutinizer05 pasted)19:42
Palisudo start -q wlancond19:43
Palisudo stop -q icd219:43
Palisudo start -q icd219:43
Pali^^^ this should help19:43
ShadowJKyeah ive done that sequence too :)19:45
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^19:47
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grammoboyI can't umount my nfs mount point anymore19:48
grammoboysomething went wrong apparently19:48
grammoboyumount /nfs/music19:48
grammoboyinvalid argument19:48
DocScrutinizer05if anybody is able to make sense of that and spot who's the culprit for this borked WLAN association, I'd love to hear19:48
ShadowJKeh I always just figured thw wlan chip is buggy and needs total reinitialization twice a year19:49
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: stale nfs locks are a notorious problem19:49
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grammoboyDocScrutinizer05, pff, how to get rid of it now?19:50
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ShadowJK"invalid argument" is weird19:56
ShadowJKusually it says something about busy19:57
ShadowJKif there's something using it19:57
ShadowJKor hangs if the server went away19:57
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: the whole friggin sequence doesn't make too much sense to me20:01
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kerionfs really can't deal with network issues gracefully20:03
DocScrutinizer05meh, grammoboy is offline anyway20:04
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DocScrutinizer05but my IroN900 is online now again, after eboot. while going to airplane-mode didn't help. Now what's this telling me?20:04
kerioreboots are magical20:05
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DocScrutinizer05I'd blame PSM, since it exposed some friggin delays of several seconds even before it went down completely20:06
DocScrutinizer05(delays in ssh session)20:06
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grammoboyo my this really seems to be serious20:06
DocScrutinizer05hey wb20:06
grammoboyno way to umount my nfs mount point20:07
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DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: corrupted fs is known to report any inode that it doesn't know any better about, as being a "stale NFS"20:07
DocScrutinizer05usually a fsck can fix that20:07
grammoboyon the local device?20:08
grammoboyeg n90020:08
DocScrutinizer05NFS links are obviously a special type of inode on the rootfs20:08
DocScrutinizer05(or wherever the supposed NFS been supposedly mounted to)20:09
grammoboydo you know how to run fsck?20:09
DocScrutinizer05I had stale NFS mounts on devices that evidently never been using NFS20:09
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: depending on the partition you need to check, it's sometimes tricky20:10
DocScrutinizer05rootfs can't get umounted, and fsck won't fix mounted fs20:10
DocScrutinizer05try BM20:10
grammoboyDocScrutinizer05, its mounted on /nfs/music20:11
DocScrutinizer05I think it has an option to fsck20:11
DocScrutinizer05df -h /nfs/20:11
DocScrutinizer05will tell you which fs this really is20:11
infobotsomebody said backupmenu was
* DocScrutinizer05 afk20:12
grammoboyi'll look into bm20:12
grammoboyfirst it needs some charging20:13
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DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: better ask somebody who already used NFS and thus has some experience. My advice probably isn't very good20:17
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ShadowJK"stale nfs mount" error message is like a generic "wtf filesystem disappeared" error that can occur on non-nfs too20:24
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: so how would you tell the fs with that "stale fs mount" to goddamn umont it and reset that inode?20:34
DocScrutinizer05there has to be some why I'd think, other than running a full fsck against the "corrupted" fs20:35
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: there has to be some way I'd think, other than running a full fsck against the "corrupted" fs20:35
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DocScrutinizer05odds are fsck wouldn't even fix the incriminated inode20:36
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DocScrutinizer05 etc, google for "fix stale nfs mount"20:40
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: ^^^20:41
DocScrutinizer05all I can do to help you out20:41
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panzersajt_Pali, hy20:51
Palipanzersajt_, hi20:51
panzersajt_thanks for the new u-boot but it would like to work on my device20:51
Palipanzersajt_, and is zImage without uboot working?20:53
panzersajt_it shows this:20:53
panzersajt_than a lots of numbers and letters20:53
panzersajt_reboot in 2 1 ..20:54
panzersajt_and reboots20:54
panzersajt_with your u-boot20:54
Paliand without uboot?20:54
panzersajt_I don't know20:55
panzersajt_but it reboots also20:55
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panzersajt_but the problem may lie in my device or ignorance20:58
Palipanzersajt_, first check if your device is bootable without uboot20:59
Paliif not reflash it20:59
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DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: looks extremely helpful:
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panzersajt_Pali, yes it was bootable before installing u-boot21:18
panzersajt_not a big deal21:19
panzersajt_I can live without mameo21:19
DocScrutinizer05panzersajt_: WUT?21:20
DocScrutinizer05panzersajt_: I guess you flashed uBoot over a non-standard kernel, so now when trying to boot into maemo, uBoot loads the stock kernel that it comes bundled with, and that stock kernel doesn't find the matching kernel modules in your rootfs21:23
DocScrutinizer05panzersajt_: you should flash the kernel you used before uBoot, via flasher-3.5 (only kernel, not a whole fiasco image!), then your system should boot again, given my assumption been correct. Then you could install proper stock kernel and matching kernel modules, try if it still boots as supposed, and then install uBoot21:25
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^ correct?21:26
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Paliyes, boot maemo with some working kernel, then install & flash stock kernel (+install modules & bootimages of other kernels)21:28
Palicheck if working and then install uboot21:28
DocScrutinizer05it's a widely ignored or even unknown fact that uBoot comes with a kernel attached21:31
kerioPali: silly idea: is it possible to flash a new kernel on the uboot payload?21:33
Palikerio, no because onenand uboot code not working on n90021:34
keriono, i mean21:34
kerioflash the kernel attached to uboot from fremantle21:34
kerioleaving uboot there21:34
Palikerio, you can create combined uboot image on device and you can flash it21:35
Paliits possible21:35
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: could uBoot preinstall create a bzImage.bin kernel image in /boot, from /dev/mtd3? Then uBoot has option to boot that kernel from ubifs rather than chainloading attached kernel from /dev/mtd3. which in turn would free up *lots* of space for uBoot in /dev/mtd3 and thus would allow for including ubifs support and a lot of other nice stuff into uBoot21:35
PaliDocScrutinizer05, first we have no access to mtd,21:36
Paliand second ubifs code is too big21:36
kerioPali: what the fuck21:36
kerioit can't be bigger than the whole linux kernel21:37
DocScrutinizer05Pali: if uBoot has whole /dev/mtd3 for itself, then I doubt UBI code is too big21:37
Palibut if we delete attached kernel image from uboot, then there is space for ubifs driver :-)21:37
PaliDocScrutinizer05, problem is that freemangordon and I was not able to fix onenand code to work on n90021:37
kerioDocScrutinizer05: to be fair it should be optified21:38
keriobecause it's not needed during the fremantle boot process, it's only needed *before* :P21:38
PaliDocScrutinizer05, but now you can boot from eMMC21:38
kerioPali: the emmc is accessible, right?21:38
Paliand this is already used21:38
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you're actually not all wrong ;-)21:38
Palikerio, bootmenu is loaded from MyDocs21:38
kerioinstall bzImage.bin in /home/boot21:38
kerioPali: bootmenu happens after the kernel is loaded, doesn't it21:39
Palithere are scripts which doing it automatically21:39
DocScrutinizer05kerio: but I'd not like to see kernel on yet a third partiton21:39
Palikerio, no21:39
PaliI mean uboot bootmenu21:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i mean, we already abused of the filesystem hierarchy, /home/boot is not even close to /home/opt in terms of nastiness21:39
Palithere is script u-boot-update bootmenu which read config files /etc/bootmenu.d/, generate needed uImage in MyDocs/bootmenuimg.d and create MyDocs/bootmenu.cmd script which appear in bootmenu21:40
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kerioi see21:41
Palikernel-power-bootimg and kernel-bootimg calling this script (if is installed) after install/remove21:41
kerioso i wouldn't actually need the bootmenu kludge in preinit...21:41
keriowould i?21:41
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I think it's been an extremely poor idea to use this very path " /etc/bootmenu.d/" which is also used by the real bootmenu which is called after kernel got loaded21:42
DocScrutinizer05they are completely independent and unrelated systems21:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the idea is that it's compatible with *that* bootmenu21:42
DocScrutinizer05that's nonsense though21:42
PaliDocScrutinizer05, both has same syntax and both show only relevant entries21:43
Palialso multiboot has same file format21:43
Paliand you really do not want to have one config file in three different locations21:43
DocScrutinizer05who cares about file format. You're free to use whatever file format you like, but placing those uBoot config files into a dir that's aslo used by multiboot and bootmenu is an idea begging for trouble and headache21:44
keriono, /etc/bootmenu.d/ holds bootmenu entries21:44
Palikerio is right21:45
Palithere are menu entires21:45
kerioyeah, i am21:45
infobotyou are probably <DocScrutinizer> [...] kerio is correct [...]21:45
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I don't get the whole idea21:45
DocScrutinizer05bootmenu itself is a completely different concept21:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: Pali's uboot is backwards-compatible with bootmenu21:46
DocScrutinizer05multiboot exploited bootmenu due to the braindamaged concept of multiboot to reflash kernel after kernel booted, then boot again21:46
DocScrutinizer05kerio: that's nonsense21:47
DocScrutinizer05how can a bootloader that selects kernels to load, be compatible with a menu that starts after kernel got loaded?21:47
kerioDocScrutinizer05: by loading the kernel and then following the menu entries' specifications21:47
keriothose menu entries specify a script to run and a rootfs, or something like that21:48
kerioit's stuff that *should've* been done by the bootloader21:48
DocScrutinizer05I repeat: bootmenu itself is something completely different21:48
keriothen why does it work?21:49
DocScrutinizer05multiboot exploited bootmenu to emulate what uBoot does21:49
DocScrutinizer05what you just described is what multiboot does, not what bootmenu does21:49
keriothe only different thing with uboot is that the choice is done before loading the kernel and not after21:50
DocScrutinizer05bootmenu is more like backupmenu21:50
DocScrutinizer05and multiboot is exploiting that to reboot after flashing a new kernel21:50
kerioagain, then why does pali's bootmenu work?21:50
DocScrutinizer05again, what a question is that?21:51
DocScrutinizer05there's no such thing like pali's bootmenu21:51
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DocScrutinizer05thzere's pali's uBoot that has a uboot menu generated from files in  /etc/bootmenu.d/21:52
DocScrutinizer05which may or may not have been placed there by multiboot21:52
DocScrutinizer05backupmenu also places a file there, do you suggest uBoot can start backupmenu=?21:52
keriothat's what Pali suggests, yes21:53
DocScrutinizer05that's nonsense21:53
kerioand to be fair, starting backupmenu is just a matter of init=/usr/share/backupmenu/BackupMenuLauncher.item or something similar21:53
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kerioPali: can uboot start backupmenu as it is?21:54
DocScrutinizer05I repeat,  /etc/bootmenu.d/ is for bootmenu which is a userland thing not related in any way to bootloader concept at large21:54
DocScrutinizer05kerio: uBoot starts kernels21:55
DocScrutinizer05backupmenu is no kernel21:55
keriono, but it's a particular init script21:55
DocScrutinizer05so what?21:55
DocScrutinizer05btw that's even incorrect21:56
DocScrutinizer05since backupmenu is not exactly an initscript21:56
DocScrutinizer05it gets invoked by an initscript21:56
DocScrutinizer05via taadaaaa bootmenu21:56
DocScrutinizer05which in turn gets invoked by a hook in sbin/preinit iirc21:57
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: if you wanna keep number of config files low and non-redundant, and for that purpose want to re-use multiboot crap in  /etc/bootmenu.d/, you could symlink them to  /etc/uBoot/*21:59
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DocScrutinizer05but I keep my notion that using same dir for bootmenu, multiboot, and uBoot is a design flaw22:00
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DocScrutinizer05while multiboot is doing that for obvious reasons (it exploits bootmenu to do its nasty kernel reflashing stuff), uBoot shouldn't link to other packages like that. it desrves its own config file directory22:01
DocScrutinizer05I'd even think multiboot and uBoot are mutually exclusive and thus conflicting, and so you probably shouldn't even install uBoot on a system where multiboot is installed22:03
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grammoboyit seems that the nfs server is mounted several times22:06
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DocScrutinizer05check if any process has open filehandles to the server and stop all those processes. Then mount -O the nfs volume again over the original mountpoint, *then* unmount it again22:12
DocScrutinizer05this _might_ reset the stale mount22:13
DocScrutinizer05if it doesn't, you're in for a fsck I guess22:13
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FlameReaperI'm getting more interested to put more Java apps in this little box :D22:19
kerioFlameReaper: no you're not >:c22:21
FlameReaperkerio: I got Jajuk up and running22:22
FlameReaperbut the 100% CPU usage @ 950MHz isn't something nice to see :c22:22
grammoboycan't get address for /nfs/music22:23
FlameReaperwhile it is refreshing the libraries22:23
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: it's an analogy to upstart (uBoot, sorry ;-P) replacing sysV-init (multiboot, sorry to sysV-init). If upstart is using init.d/* and the runlevel dirs to create a setup to keep the system config as compatible and working as feasible then that's still fine. But no way upstart should store its own config under /etc/init.d, and actually it doesn't. there's /etc/events.d/* for that22:27
kerioit doesn't store its own config in bootmenu.d goddammit22:28
kerioit doesn't even look at it, there's a script that does that and builds a part of the uboot config22:28
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DocScrutinizer05then I don't get it why everybody says uBoot config has to go into /etc/bootmenu.d22:31
DocScrutinizer05if it's not meant that way, then why is anybody suggesting it?22:31
DocScrutinizer05this obviously is causing that much confusion for users, even you thought bootmenu and uBoot were similar or related22:33
DocScrutinizer05probably the main sin is to do all this during preinstall, instead of shipping a tool to do it on user request22:34
DocScrutinizer05(or postinstall, dunno)22:35
kerioi *know* what a bootloader is and how bootmenu works22:35
DocScrutinizer05if user could invoke `uBoot-import-multiboot` which would come with uBoot installation, then things wre much more clear, and btw more convenient to handle22:36
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keriothat's what happens, kinda22:37
DocScrutinizer05obviously not22:37
keriothere's a script, it's invoked by the postinstall of the kernel bootimgs but can also be invoked manually22:38
DocScrutinizer05WTF is it getting invoked by postinstall then?22:38
kerioidk, ask Pali22:38
PaliU-Boot can only load uboot script files (hush) and u-boot-update-bootmenu converting bootmenu format to uboot script22:39
Paliuboot scripting (for uboot bootmenu) is not human job22:40
Palialso uboot can load uImage kernels (zImage with special header)22:41
Paliso that script also convert zImage from /boot (or /opt/boot/) to uImage and store it in MyDocs/bootmenu_subdir/22:41
grammoboyfsck stops after running shortly in BM22:41
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: it doesn't 'stop' - it just takes ages I guess22:42
grammoboydamn didn't know nfs could give me this kind of trouble22:42
grammoboyDocScrutinizer05, it goes back to the menu22:42
kerioPali: how does it boot something like backupmenu?22:42
DocScrutinizer05so it's maybe finished22:42
Palikerio, I do not know if uboot can boot backupmenu22:43
Palibut it needs something like pass init=22:43
DocScrutinizer05BM is not meant to play init process22:43
DocScrutinizer05BM depends on bootmenu22:44
kerioDocScrutinizer05: to be fair it only needs proc, sys and tmp22:44
kerioor something like that22:44
kerio(that's what preinit does before bootmenu is loaded)22:44
DocScrutinizer05doesn't change the difference of what bootmenu does vs what uBoot does22:45
DocScrutinizer05uBoot is unrelated to bootmenu, if anything it is related to then that's multiboot22:46
DocScrutinizer05since it obviously tries to replace that22:46
DocScrutinizer05yet most users now mix up uBoot and bootmenu, they don't even notice there's a difference22:47
DocScrutinizer05and that's caused by instructions suggesting to tweak /etc/bootmenu.d/* entries to edit stuff that actually should get edited in genuine uBoot script22:48
grammoboyman this isn't f*cking windows is it22:49
grammoboyI just can't get rid of the freaking umount problem22:50
DocScrutinizer05we're risking to run into compatibility issues for the other direction: tweaking files in /etc/bootmenu.d/* for changing uBoot behaviour may (and iirc actually did already) cause problems for bootmenu22:50
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: usually a reflash is fastest and most painless fix22:51
grammoboygive me a break, my o my22:52
DocScrutinizer05create a proper backup with BM, reflash rootfs, the restroe the backup22:52
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DocScrutinizer05,then restore*22:52
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grammoboyalso backup Mydocs?22:53
DocScrutinizer05not needed unless your mountpoint been on /home or below22:53
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DocScrutinizer05though you should have proper backups of your whole system any time22:54
DocScrutinizer05gambling with that stuff isn't worth it22:54
keriohe said the mountpoint was /nfs/music22:57
kerioso... ubifs error?22:57
grammoboydamn you n900, fucking time waster!22:57
keriogrammoboy: are you sure you can't just... rm the directory?22:57
grammoboykerio, hm I thought of that, can try it22:58
DocScrutinizer05will cause a dnagling lock in a dangling inode22:58
DocScrutinizer05I still dunno what's your actual problem. You say you can't umount the nfs, but why do you want to do that, first instance?22:59
grammoboyI can't get to my files23:00
grammoboycd /nfs/music is empty23:00
grammoboyto restore nfs23:00
grammoboyI need to umount first23:01
grammoboycause mounting doesn't work23:01
grammoboythe nfs that is23:01
DocScrutinizer05even not when you try mount -O ?23:01
DocScrutinizer05and close all processes that have a file handle to this?23:01
grammoboyI've rebooted serveral times23:02
keriothen what the hell23:02
kerioyou don't have a mount anymore, unless you have it automounted23:02
keriojust rm the directory23:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: he rebooted! several times!23:03
DocScrutinizer05kerio: so what?23:03
kerioin particular, he rebooted at least once23:03
keriogo look at e) in that list23:03
DocScrutinizer05mount -O overwrites the inode holding the supposed stale nfs lock23:03
keriogrammoboy: what's your actual problem, right now?23:04
grammoboykerio, feeling tired23:04
grammoboykerio, can't mount nfs23:04
keriooh, so you just can't mount it23:04
kerioare nfs-common and portmap installed?23:05
DocScrutinizer05sure, see -O    Overlay mount.23:05
keriodid you do /etc/init.d/nfs-common start and /etc/init.d/portmap start?23:05
DocScrutinizer05you can't mount on an allegedly already mounted mountpoint23:05
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i'm not even sure he *has* anything mounted right now23:05
DocScrutinizer05kerio: that's not the point23:05
DocScrutinizer05th einode says he has23:06
DocScrutinizer05and since the connection to far end is down, it can't umount23:06
DocScrutinizer05but aiui you can mount -O23:06
keriogrammoboy: can you pastebin the output of "mount"?23:06
DocScrutinizer05on same inode, thus overwriting it23:07
kerioand can you rmdir /nfs/music ?23:07
DocScrutinizer05when he does that, he doesn't have any way to mount or unmount on that inode anymore23:07
kerioand what's the problem? he doesn't have a stale mount anymore, he *rebooted*23:08
DocScrutinizer05while the inode stays as it is, since it's considered an open handle23:08
grammoboyis that 0 a zero?23:08
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keriogrammoboy: why would it be a zero23:08
kerioit's a -O23:08
DocScrutinizer05hmm, yeah, next boot might result in an arbitrary corrupted inode then23:09
DocScrutinizer05-O    Overlay mount.23:09
kerionfs, the magical FS with the magical inode corruption powers23:09
kerionfs is flaky, but not that flaky23:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you keep posting that, and it clearly lists "reboot" as a way to solve the problem23:10
DocScrutinizer05no, but fs is as magic to assume everything it doesn't know is a stale NFS if it's an inode23:10
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you keep telling stuff like those were all alternatives rather than a sequence of things to execute23:11
grammoboy-o and -t nfs?23:11
grammoboyO invalid option23:12
DocScrutinizer05kerio: while I already explained several times that you can get stale NFS mounts or handles on a system that doesn't even have any nfs drivers23:12
DocScrutinizer05too bad, our mount is flaked23:12
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: fwiw -O is "optlist" on debian's mount23:13
DocScrutinizer05i'm not going to invest even more time into that, this includes me not reading manpage of busybox mount and finding out how grammoboy made nfs work on maemo at all23:14
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i literally just did23:14
keriostart nfs-common and portmap, mount -t nfs server:export dir23:15
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DocScrutinizer05[2012-10-13 21:52:27] <DocScrutinizer05> create a proper backup with BM, reflash rootfs, the restroe the backup23:16
DocScrutinizer05or use hexedit on /dev/mtd5 ;-P23:17
kerioohoho, killing the connection if you didn't mount with -o soft is truly an awful idea23:18
DocScrutinizer05kerio: either you've read all the other pages I linked for grammoboy, or you're going thru all that stuff again23:18
kerionah, i'm just trying it right now on the n90023:19
DocScrutinizer05stuff=trial&error and finding out about how nfs and fs in general work23:19
DocScrutinizer05if ext2/3/4 fs driver runs into any corrupted inode it doesn't know about at all, it claims "stale NFS"23:20
kerioand are you sure it's the same thing that happens with ubifs?23:21
DocScrutinizer05quite, yes23:21
DocScrutinizer05since afaik ubifs also is using inodes23:21
DocScrutinizer05plus I've seen this very effect of stale NFS error on FR23:22
DocScrutinizer05which used jffs2 iirc23:22
DocScrutinizer05so why would it differ for ubi?23:22
keriohah, "server not responding, still trying"23:23
keriogood luck with that, you stupid module23:23
kerioi wonder why i can't even umount -fl it23:23
DocScrutinizer05because it's braindamaged crap ;-)23:23
kerioalright, let's reboot23:25
DocScrutinizer05the funny stuff is that mounts seem to actually alter inodes, otherwise how would the "stale NFS" error survive reboots?23:25
kerioah balls23:25
kerioscreen turned off, i can't turn it on23:25
kerioit's still on, isn't it23:25
keriothis is a textbook example of bad design, imo23:26
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DocScrutinizer05there's a reason why nobody touches NFS anymore ;-)23:26
keriomeh, it's just that "soft" should really be a default option23:27
kerioand i was talking about the n900 in general23:27
DocScrutinizer05solves some problems, but others perveil23:27
kerioi wonder if a FUSE nfs client would be better, in this regard23:28
DocScrutinizer05no, afaik the problems are design-immanent23:28
keriomostly because you can apply some -9 to it to make it stop being a bitch23:28
kerioyou can't exactly kill the kernel23:28
DocScrutinizer05fuse also needs a kernel module afaik23:29
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kerioas an aside, /me ponders about symlinking /etc/mtab to /proc/mounts23:30
kerioDocScrutinizer05: idk, i successfully rmdir'd the mounted directory, after a reboot23:31
DocScrutinizer05now for something completely different: how's your boot working, and did the stale NFS vanish?23:31
keriome or grammoboy?23:31
kerioboot went fine after powercycling, no mention of nfs in mtab or mounts or `mount`23:32
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keriormdir'd the directory, no error messages23:32
DocScrutinizer05there's not even an error msg when I rm /sbin/init23:32
DocScrutinizer05means: on unix you can rm whatever you like, it just unlinks the inode23:33
kerioso... i should reboot again?23:33
DocScrutinizer05you now probably have a corrupted inode anywhere on your storage medium, and it will show up again whenever somebody tries to use it23:34
keriocool story bro23:34
DocScrutinizer05or when you run a fsck against the volume23:34
kerioit's ubifs, it's indestructible or something23:34
keriothere's no fsck.ubifs23:34
keriowell, what else can the lack of a checking utility mean?23:35
kerioanyway, google says nothing about stale NFS inodes corrupting other inodes23:36
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: i read that already, i lol'd already, then i had a sad for a bit23:39
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: also, again: what's your take then about error "stale NFS" on a flash storage in a phone that evidently never seen NFS23:40
DocScrutinizer05and those errors surviving reboots23:40
keriowell, it's clearly unrelated to nfs23:40
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kerioand i don't care, unless you have a way to explain how that error can jump from inode to inode when you delete the original file handle23:41
DocScrutinizer05ooh sure, and the three letters in the error msg are just for fun?23:41
keriono, "stale NFS inode" or whatever is the error for when there's an inode that's corrupted enough23:41
DocScrutinizer05kerio: wtf? jump from inode to inode? it will jump out and bite your nuts23:41
kerioi was able to enter the directory that held the mount point, i even listed its contents23:42
kerioit was empty23:42
kerioi rmdir'd it23:42
kerioproblem solved, in my opinion23:42
DocScrutinizer05honestly, this gets boring23:42
kerioyou're the one claiming "you have a corrupted inode somewhere, now"23:43
DocScrutinizer05first instance you never had any problem, unlike grammoboy23:43
DocScrutinizer05and second, I don't give a shit23:43
keriothat isn't nice :c23:43
DocScrutinizer05I toldya what I've seen and what I concluded23:44
DocScrutinizer05and I'm not interested in proving I'm right or wrong, I'm basically not interested in NFS at all23:44
DocScrutinizer05and third, I said /me afk some hours ago, and i'm still sitting on this friggin IRC terminal, while my stomach hurts and asks for food23:45
kerioi wonder if i get the same situation if i mount it with -o soft23:46
DocScrutinizer05and 4th: [2012-10-13 21:52:27] <DocScrutinizer05> create a proper backup with BM, reflash rootfs, the restroe the backup23:46
DocScrutinizer05if NFS handle isn't stored in inode, then WTF didn't reboot help for grammoboy?23:47
keriogrammoboy: what's your current error?23:47
DocScrutinizer05cya peeps23:47
keriotake care doc23:48
keriowow, umount -fl just... didn't umount? :s23:48
keriooh, it did, but it didn't update /etc/mtab23:49
keriothis is silly23:49
* grammoboy making backup23:49
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keriogrammoboy: first answer me!23:50
keriowhat's your error message?23:50
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grammoboykerio, input/output error23:51
grammoboykerio, umount 'invalid argument'23:51
kerioless /proc/mounts23:51
DocScrutinizer05kerio: sorry, this been actually not nice. I was impolite23:51
kerioDocScrutinizer05: don't worry about it <323:51
grammoboykerio, showmount 'can find address'23:51
keriogrammoboy: check /proc/mounts, see if it's actually mounted23:51
kerioor if it's just /etc/mtab being silly23:51
kerioPali: can we get some modifications in /proc/mounts so it actually fits what /etc/mtab should have and we can symlink it?23:52
grammoboyfirst I need to finish the backup23:52
kerioDocScrutinizer05, grammoboy: not sure if you're interested, but i got "invalid argument" when trying to umount something that was listed in mtab but not /proc/mounts23:52
kerio*but not in23:52
DocScrutinizer05haha, nice spotting23:53
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kerio/etc/mtab is fucking stupid23:53
DocScrutinizer05sure thing23:53
DocScrutinizer05since afaik it's maintained by mount23:53
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grammoboykerio, hm, if that also gives hope for mount23:54
kerioit's maintained by *busybox's mount*23:54
grammoboykerio, if I can only umount Im not really further23:54
kerioi still don't know what your original problem was23:55
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DocScrutinizer05>>The programs mount and umount maintain a list of currently mounted filesystems in the file /etc/mtab. If no arguments are given to mount, this list is printed.<<23:56
* grammoboy q and reboot23:57
keriooh nvm, Invalid argument is just for any path that exists but isn't a mountpoint23:57
DocScrutinizer05so obviously if something else (kernel) "umounts" a fs, mount will run into trouble with its private notion of what's mounted23:57
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: that's why you're somewhat "supposed" to have /etc/mtab as a symlink to /proc/mounts, if your kernel is recent enough23:57
DocScrutinizer05it's probably perfectly sane and safe to *edit* /etc7mtab23:57
kerio2.6.28.10's /proc/mounts doesn't show bindmounts correctly23:58
DocScrutinizer05or just delete this crap23:58
kerioyeah, i just deleted the nfs entry that wasn't in /proc/mounts23:59
DocScrutinizer05so mount will happily mount everything, but not umount anything after that ;-P23:59
keriowhich is the official mount list23:59
kerioDocScrutinizer05: eeh, i don't even know if mount checks the list to *do* things23:59
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