| Woody14619 | My work is spinning up right now... Oct to March is our super-heavy season. | 00:00 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, heh | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | My professional future is on the deities as usual | 00:01 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders what youtube makes of his location, currently outgoing requests are randomly originating from .nl or .fi for me :-) | 00:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right now my 40h+ week leaves me sleeping the rest of the time (aside from a lil IRC occasionally) | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if only every tmo user would pay me 50ct / month, i probably could make a nice living from that and dedicate all my time 24/7 to maemo | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | I know the feeling re 40/sleep :P | 00:03 |
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| Woody14619 | Seriously? Smart has lost it's mind. | 00:06 |
| Woody14619 | At the next show they're showing a concept electic, get this "with a built in video projector, so every wall is a drive-in theater". | 00:07 |
| Woody14619 | Is my calendar off? Is it April 1st or something? http://int.smart.com/information-service-show-cars-smart-forstars/1a72867e-a527-5116-8503-f69c5cf315bd | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: eh? | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF is "smart"? | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which show? | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict electic | 00:09 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'electic' \E*lec"tic\, a. See {Eclectic}. [1913 Webster] | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1913 ;-P | 00:10 |
| Woody14619 | Paris at the Mondial de l’Automobile | 00:10 |
| Woody14619 | smart is a car manufacturer | 00:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, please don't talk about Automobile to me. Volkswagen said they're ueber-eager to get hold of me, after they've read what I done so far (buzzword backseat entertainment). But it means moving from South of Germany to North, permanently | 00:12 |
| ShadowJK | I'm considering purchasing an electric car atm | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Doc: "North" as in "Prussia"? | 00:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: maemo-based car gogogogogo | 00:14 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Oh god no. | 00:14 |
| ShadowJK | My current wishlist consists of: Brushless motor, diesel(-ish) fired heater, well insulated battery compartment, oversized battery compartment, open documented motor control and battery charger and battery management system. | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: that's meego, you remember? | 00:14 |
| kerio | no, i don't | 00:14 |
| kerio | cuz meego sucks | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meego backseat entertainment branch | 00:15 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: And the on-board controllers should run software written in emacs! | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably the only branch of meego that actually flourished | 00:15 |
| RST38h | maybe because it wasnt really Meego? | 00:16 |
| ShadowJK | I can get the above sans brushless for 10kE from non-traditional manufacturers. I can get from established manufacturers only the brushless features from above, for 40kE. | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: BS, this was *real* meego | 00:16 |
| RST38h | Doc The media one? Mmm... yeah maybe | 00:16 |
| * RST38h stands corrected | 00:16 | |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Or you can get a turbodiesel Folkswagen | 00:16 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: and save on BOTH car and fuel | 00:17 |
| ShadowJK | I'd get a Chevy/Opel Volt/Ampera, if the price wasn't silly and if you could fix it yourself when it "bricks" | 00:17 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, local taxes make diesels extremely expensive for me | 00:17 |
| RST38h | Oh | 00:17 |
| RST38h | But not more expensive than electrics, right? | 00:18 |
| ShadowJK | However, if the diesel is only used for heating, and not for propulsion, and if the car seats max 2, I'd pay a twentieth in car tax, and I could legally run the heating unit on "Light Heating Oil", which is essentially diesel, but tax-free and half cost of diesel | 00:18 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, annual taxes for owning the car | 00:19 |
| RST38h | evil | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | There's tax on the purchase price of the car, which you pay when you purchase a new car. There's also an annual tax, which you pay every year that you own a car. The more Co2 your car emits, the more you pay. However, diesels have a different scale to petrol, so diesel is only economical if you drive *alot*, otherwise the annual tax eats up the advantage | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | a <=2 seat electric in comparison has almost negligible annual tax | 00:22 |
| Hurrian | shadowJK, yowch | 00:22 |
| Hurrian | my new diesel SUV chows down less gas a week than my gas sedan, with the SUV seeing slightly more use per week. | 00:23 |
| Woody14619 | shadowjk: smart makes an electric... their 3rd gen is due out in a month or so. | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | Woody14619, yeah but it's still going to be obscenely expensive | 00:23 |
| Woody14619 | I'm on the list to get one.... I have a gas smart now. | 00:23 |
| Woody14619 | No.. smart electric starts at $22K | 00:23 |
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| Woody14619 | Compaired to the $13K gas start, sure... more expensive, but not >$40K like the Volt. | 00:24 |
| ShadowJK | Weird, volt is 45kE here, I'd expected any outside price to be half of local price :-) | 00:25 |
| ShadowJK | 45kE second hand, mind | 00:25 |
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| ShadowJK | what kind of range does 22k smart come with? :-) | 00:25 |
| Woody14619 | They're saying 90 miles, which is pretty reasonable. | 00:27 |
| ShadowJK | I did calculations on a Subaru miniature delivery van thing, originally lead-acid, the battery pack I'd want to build in it would cost 7000 and get me about that range | 00:28 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders how to avoid worst case scenario: getting so embarrased of not being able to comply with council duties, to not even contribute to community at all as a simple member | 00:28 | |
| ShadowJK | maybe slightly less range, depending on cruise speed | 00:29 |
| ShadowJK | a boxy van is quite inefficient :/ | 00:29 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder what kind of pricing BYD has, I think they're coming to the US soon? Will have to wait here in europe still :/ | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I heard BYD scored on crash tests like a nail bed | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | If they give me moose repellant I'll be fine | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | ;P | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | On the subaru minivan I calculated break-even point was 5 years | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | (relative to petrol consumption of my current car) | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | This assumes nothing breaks down on it | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and on oil market | 00:38 |
| Woody14619 | My look on the smart is I need a second car (our old second is crapping the bed). So we're looking at two smarts. $9K delta on a gas vs electric? Break even on that is about 2.5 years where I am, less when you cut out the oil changes and what not. | 00:38 |
| Woody14619 | And that was at $3.50/gallon. We're at close to $4.25 now. | 00:38 |
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| ShadowJK | With some random BYD, or any american or any french car, or an opel, making 5 years without major welding jobs due to rusting is a bit like winning the lottery :-) | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: haha, count in the battery changes every 5 years | 00:39 |
| Woody14619 | So... Really a no brainer. | 00:39 |
| Woody14619 | The smart batteries are from Tesla. Life is supposed to be 8 years to 80%. | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | supposed? or guaranteed? | 00:40 |
| Woody14619 | Even then, the battery replacement is only $4k. | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh | 00:40 |
| Woody14619 | I have the same question, waiting on that from the dealership. ; | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | The tesla pack is horribly complicated | 00:41 |
| Woody14619 | But really... even then... add up the oil changes, plugs, etc.. | 00:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 00:41 |
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| ShadowJK | Ah yeah, US oil changes are about 4X as frequent as EU oil changes? | 00:41 |
| Woody14619 | Yes and no. It's got more control circutry (better load balance), but 95% of that is reusable. | 00:41 |
| * ShadowJK read somewhere on interwebs that the same engine and same oil have different oil changing intervals in US and EU | 00:42 | |
| Woody14619 | Yes and no. :) Smarts are rated to run 10,000 miles between changes. | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | Hm, is it Volt I'm thinking of? The one built out of essentially laptop-sized cells | 00:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet that's due to silly way to use cars / operate engines in USA | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, nah, apparently some have oil change at 5000km? | 00:43 |
| Woody14619 | Where in EU they call for 20K (so 12K/13K in miles?) | 00:44 |
| Woody14619 | Not a huge difference. | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | My current toyota goes 15000 between oil change.. but it leaks a little bit, and it has really small oil capacity... when the oil light comes in, I refill it with like 95% of its capacity in oil? O_0 | 00:44 |
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| ShadowJK | So I have to conclude that the engine probably would run without it ;-D | 00:45 |
| Woody14619 | Used to have a Geo Storm like that. :) | 00:45 |
| Woody14619 | I actually has a Sentra run without oil for almost a month. | 00:45 |
| Woody14619 | I put one of those late-night tv specials in, that "bonds" to your engine to reduce friction. | 00:45 |
| Woody14619 | Actually worked well apparently. Quieted the car down. ;) | 00:46 |
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| Woody14619 | I took it in because it wouldn't start on cold mornings, turns out, no oil... pan was bone dry. :P | 00:47 |
| Woody14619 | The plug apparently got whacked on a nasty pot hole somewhere... | 00:48 |
| Woody14619 | Anyway... as fun as this is... I'm off to dinner and gone for the weekend. | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | Btw, a funny thing about batteries. A123 makes the *best* automotive battery ever, there's just one minor annoyance with it, and one major annoyance. The minor one is that they make them really tiny, so you need a huge amount of them. The major annoyance is that they odn't actually sell them. Luckily, a China factory makes batteries that are half as good (which is twice as good as they need to be), in big formats (I'd beed 25 for the subaru compared to 30 | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | 0+ if I used A123), AND they actually sell them, and ship them. Not terribly surprising, A123 kinda went out of business and got acquired for its IP by a chinese company, and production has been dead for months :/ | 00:49 |
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| Woody14619 | Only about 2 more hours to nominate for Council! :) | 00:49 |
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| Woody14619 | K, see you all around! :) | 00:52 |
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| Sc0rpius_ | I'm gonna make an application | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius_ | that you say out loud | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius_ | "what time is it?" | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius_ | and your N900 will tell you the current time in your language | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius_ | would you use an app like that? | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius_ | I really need it badly | 01:41 |
| RiD | lol | 01:42 |
| RiD | isn't the siri clone already doing that? | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius_ | fuck really? | 01:42 |
| RiD | saere or something | 01:42 |
| beford | Saera | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius_ | but you have to press a button or something | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius_ | I want it on all the itme | 01:42 |
| beford | yea | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius_ | time | 01:42 |
| RiD | nope no idea Sc0rpius_ , haven't used my phone for 2 weeks or so | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius_ | I mean listening the mike 24/7 | 01:42 |
| RiD | bye bye battery | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius_ | yeah :( | 01:43 |
| Sc0rpius_ | then I'm gonna make a device just for that using a Raspberry Pi baord or something | 01:43 |
| RiD | lol | 01:43 |
| RiD | why? | 01:43 |
| RiD | why would you want something to say the time? | 01:43 |
| RiD | too lazy to use a clock? | 01:43 |
| Sc0rpius_ | well I'm myope | 01:44 |
| RiD | ...oh | 01:44 |
| Sc0rpius_ | at nights even if I open my eyes I just can't read clocks | 01:44 |
| Sc0rpius_ | I have this projection clock | 01:44 |
| Sc0rpius_ | it works great the numbers are so big that even I can read them | 01:44 |
| RiD | why not a fullsized n900 clock app then? | 01:44 |
| Sc0rpius_ | but during the day you can't see the numbers | 01:44 |
| RiD | you can't see it? | 01:44 |
| Sc0rpius_ | no | 01:44 |
| RiD | what | 01:45 |
| Sc0rpius_ | it has to be like 1 meter long | 01:45 |
| Sc0rpius_ | for me to read it without glasses | 01:45 |
| Sc0rpius_ | but my ears work fine! | 01:45 |
| RiD | can't say the same about me | 01:45 |
| Sc0rpius_ | I think there are voice recognition alarm clocks out there | 01:45 |
| RiD | my problem is in the ears haha | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | clearly you need my n900 mod, with the 42" display | 01:45 |
| RiD | some clocks have a button that says the time | 01:46 |
| RiD | someone i knew with *very* serious sight problems (he couldn't see that much even with glasses) used one | 01:46 |
| RiD | "it's - twenty - three - and - forty - six - minutes!" | 01:46 |
| Sc0rpius_ | yeah but if I have to strech out to press a button at nights, then I'm already awake | 01:47 |
| Sc0rpius_ | the thing is at 3 am you say out loud "WHAT TIME IS IT????" | 01:47 |
| Sc0rpius_ | and the clock will tell you time | 01:47 |
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| Sc0rpius_ | and the wife will kick your ass for waking her up | 01:47 |
| Sc0rpius_ | :/ | 01:47 |
| RiD | tiny bluetooth / wifi earbud with a button in it | 01:48 |
| Sc0rpius_ | and sleep with that?? | 01:50 |
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| RiD | if it's tiny enough it wouldn't bother you | 01:54 |
| RiD | but the easiest solution is to kick your wife out of your bedroom | 01:55 |
| Sc0rpius_ | :/ | 01:55 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | I haven't tried it the last 15 years, but voice recog seems "hard" :) | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | :-\ | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I want offline voice recognition, | 02:30 |
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| ShadowJK | However, re battery, if oyu're sleeping you have your N900 plugged into power, unless you're a moron and an idiot | 02:32 |
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| Sc0rpius_ | you must be a heavy user of the N900 | 02:40 |
| Sc0rpius_ | I just charge it like once a week | 02:41 |
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| Hurrian | Sc0rpius, you must be a really light user | 02:47 |
| Hurrian | 1 week is seriously stretching it | 02:47 |
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| Hurrian | When I used my N900 everyday, it gets about 3-4 days, with ~5 minutes of calls and ~2 hours of music via earbuds daily | 02:48 |
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| Hurrian | ...that's with Smartreflex enabled, Modest disabled, and the device entering C0 a lot during the night. | 02:52 |
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| Skry | i need to sacrifice 8 rats tonight | 05:11 |
| RST38h | Sounds like you have got a job to do, why sit here? | 05:13 |
| RST38h | Go, go, get the kitchen knife | 05:13 |
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| Skry | nah, wont need knife, snakes have a feeding day | 05:15 |
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| iluminator105 | is there scandit for n900? | 05:24 |
| Sc0rpius_ | what's that | 05:25 |
| iluminator105 | well it works in symbian it wont be hard tweak to get it to run in n900 | 05:29 |
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| c-ruz | hi | 12:00 |
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| trx | is there anything i need to do before using n900's tv out? | 13:49 |
| trx | i connect it to my tv card but all i get is a black screen | 13:49 |
| trx | in the status menu i have Tv Out with Output enabled | 13:50 |
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| kerio | trx: hmm, do you have CSSU installed? | 14:10 |
| kerio | reduce the scaling a bit | 14:10 |
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| grammoboy | my n900 has water damage and someone wants to buy it | 14:16 |
| grammoboy | what can I do for my private data on the internal memory? | 14:17 |
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| trx | kerio yes | 14:18 |
| trx | i'll try that, thanks | 14:18 |
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| trx | didn't help :( | 14:20 |
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| Hurrian | grammoboy, can you in any way boot the device up? | 14:27 |
| Hurrian | if not, then you have to repair the device before getting to the internal memory | 14:27 |
| grammoboy | Hurrian, it flashes up but doesn't boot | 14:28 |
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| grammoboy | how hard is it to remove internal memory? | 14:31 |
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| grammoboy | and what is the chance that it is still ok after water damage | 14:32 |
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| Pali | trx, try to change PAL/NTSC | 15:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | Pali: though trx has left, I'd like to note that cssu tv-out setting appletacts rather weird after first installation: real settings in effect don't match what's displayed by the applet | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | grammoboy: there's nothing sensible you can do. Your basic options are reflashing of COMBINED and VANILLA, which most probably won't work, and erasure of flash by hard xray which will probably also kill BT, WLAN, ALS, camera, chargerchip and I dunno which chips also have internal flash for factory calibration or chip 'firmware' that user can't easily reflash | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | of course you also could desolder the 32GB flash eMMC chip | 15:32 |
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| kerio | #maemo, always providing sensible solutions to common problems | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | there might be a theoretical opportunity to access and erase eMMC via JTAG even on a non-working system, but that's a really technically demanding task | 15:34 |
| grammoboy | ok, thx | 15:34 |
| grammoboy | so don't sell it | 15:34 |
| grammoboy | trust the new owner | 15:34 |
| grammoboy | or trust that the device will not wake up | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | or change all you private data you think might be sensible, like email accounts & passwords. Hard to change addr data of friends though, if you think those are privacy sensible. And of course no way to erase all your private p0rn you shot with the camera ;-) | 15:36 |
| grammoboy | it's mostly mail which is stored in the claw mail client | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | s/sensible/critical/g | 15:37 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer06 meant: or change all you private data you think might be critical, like email accounts & passwords. Hard to change addr data of friends though, if you think those are privacy critical. And of course no way to erase all your private p0rn you shot with the camera ... | 15:37 |
| grammoboy | and txt messages | 15:37 |
| grammoboy | I changed the passwrds already | 15:38 |
| grammoboy | have to think a moment about how sensitive the existing mail in the inboxes are ... | 15:38 |
| grammoboy | not that my life is that interesting though | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | sensitive, thanks thats the word I've been searching for | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | generally it's hard to tell what got destructed by water damage, but it's usually nothing terribly fatal | 15:40 |
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| grammoboy | so I might be better off going to a shop for repair? | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | you're better off first properly drying the device. there are tiny gaps and cavities under the chips resp nbetween board and chip, where water can stay for months without proper cleaning & drying procedure | 15:41 |
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| grammoboy | I've put it in rise for several days | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | open up all cans. rinse mainboard with pure ethanol (98%) several times, use pressurized air to blow out liquid from all corners. Then dry at ~60°C for at least a week | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | rice is utter nonsense | 15:43 |
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| grammoboy | I think it's not | 15:44 |
| grammoboy | or it is a good placebo | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | your rice been in contact with open air for months (you don't store rice in vacuum packing). During that time it adsorbed all the humidity it can take | 15:45 |
| grammoboy | 60°C for a week? hey man I live in the netherlands | 15:45 |
| grammoboy | :) | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | honestly, rice is bullshit | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | probably from the observation that a few grains of rice in salt dispenser stop the salt from building chunks | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | that's an entirely different effect though, unrelated to humidity first place | 15:47 |
| grammoboy | how do you dry at 60 degrees? | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I usually place the device at air outlet of my laptop or server box ;-) | 15:47 |
| grammoboy | hmm | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | or just place it on top of your room heating | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | if that's the most common type of heater units with hot water inside | 15:49 |
| grammoboy | cans = screws? | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | no, the lids of those small steel cans on the PCB | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | they're nasty to remove, since they have several dozen latches holding them down all around the perimeter | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | you carefully open them by prying up notch after notch with a pinpoint small knife or detist pin tool, going around the perimeter several times. will take like 10min per lid, where first 5 minutes you think it will never come off | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | anyway opening the cans is mandatory with water damage, since you can't clean the inside of those cans any other way | 15:55 |
| grammoboy | how much is the chance that it succeeds | 15:57 |
| grammoboy | it can have a short circuit | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | hard to say | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | did you immediately remove battery after water incident? | 15:57 |
| grammoboy | yes | 15:58 |
| grammoboy | but restarted | 15:58 |
| grammoboy | it too early | 15:58 |
| grammoboy | then it became worse | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | hmm | 15:58 |
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| grammoboy | at first there was only small disfuntioning | 15:58 |
| grammoboy | after I tried to recharge it, it didn't boot again | 15:58 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: what about vacuum-packed rice? | 15:58 |
| kerio | (semi-serious question) | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | electrolytic deterrioration of traces and shorts is most severe threat | 15:59 |
| grammoboy | how can I make sure that the internal memory gets destroyed ? :) | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: rice has no special hygroscopic / hydrophile properties. Use Silka Gel or other dedicated humidity remover substance | 16:00 |
| grammoboy | look at the problem from an other side :) | 16:00 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: k | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | grammoboy: desolder, or electrocute | 16:01 |
| grammoboy | DocScrutinizer06, howto electrocute? | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | or overheat, maybe actually a good way | 16:01 |
| grammoboy | put it in the oven? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | wel, proper overheating will desolder the chip anyway ;-P | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | grammoboy: I don't see the purpose of all that. Since nobody will pay reasonable amount of $currency for a mainboard with destroyed eMMC chip | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | plus other unknown defects caused by water damage | 16:04 |
| grammoboy | I've a bid of 30 euro already | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | if somebody wants to pay a few bucks for a N900 board with a water defect, then only since he hopes to repair ir | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | it* | 16:05 |
| grammoboy | he wants to use parts of it | 16:05 |
| grammoboy | and he hopes to repair it probably first | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | adding damage to the board that's beyond the already published/announced water damage is incorrect business and will defeat the purpose the buyer got that board for | 16:06 |
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| grammoboy | that's true | 16:07 |
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| grammoboy | ok, I'll think about what is wise here | 16:08 |
| grammoboy | thx | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | so either remove the board completely and sell the rest for spare parts, or drill a hole thru eMMC chip or simply pry it off the poard by brute force, and announce the board got damaged mechanically | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | s/poard/board/ | 16:09 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer06 meant: so either remove the board completely and sell the rest for spare parts, or drill a hole thru eMMC chip or simply pry it off the board by brute force, and announce the board got damaged mechanically | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | both will require you disassembling the N900 and do quite some work, which is not worth it regarding the maybe maqx 50bucks you could get | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | (and I honestly doubt somebody will pay 50 bucks for such a 'device') | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | if you already disassemble the device, you're better off trying to 'repair' it by proper cleaning&drying procedure | 16:13 |
| grammoboy | how do you put the ethanol on it? | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I.E rinse with tap water thoroughly to remove any possible metaloxides from electrolytic damage during battery inserted, then with destilled water, then with ethanol. clean with pressurized air after each rinse | 16:15 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: hm, wouldn't it be better to avoid tap water altogether? | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I usually use a cleaned plastic spray can from glass cleaner | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: it's available in large quatities and with proper pressure to get a forceful jet of water | 16:16 |
| kerio | oh ok | 16:17 |
| kerio | it's just that you can't get a lot of distilled water | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | you rinse out any metaloxide and other dirt by giving the PCB a proper shower | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | of maybe 5 minutes | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | with several breaks for pressurized air | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | then rinse with distilled water 2 or 3 times, using maybe 1l | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | then 2 or 3 rinses with ethanol | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | the idea being that the ethanol is hygroscopic and easily delutes the water remnants | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | (you also could use metanol or isopropyl, if it's 98%+ ) | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | grammoboy: ((how do you put the ethanol on it?)) iirc there's also one electrical cabinet and board cleanser from KontaktChemie that's mainly pure alcohol | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | http://www.funk-shop.de/70_kontaktchemie/70_kontakt-chemie_uebersicht1.htm | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | http://www.crcind.com/csp/web/functdisp.csp?lng=3&idx=2245746&country=ALL&brand=KOC&CSPCHD=0000000100003havj1o1000000_Xh73_EqRN9yZ72T0tM0oA-- | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | alcohol cleanser: http://www.crcind.com/csp/web/ProdDisp.csp?lng=3&idx=2245746&country=ALL&product=KONTAKT%20IPA&brand=KOC&CSPCHD=0000000100003havj1o1000000_Xh73_EqRN9yZ72T0tM0oA-- | 16:31 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: http://blog.openwebosproject.org/post/32462950628/open-webos-1-0-edition | 16:41 |
| RST38h | Doc: Drinkable? =) | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | if you want to do something more aggressive about possible metaloxides from electrolysis (they may short balls under chip), use kontakt60 and then rinse with Kontakt-WL | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | and use pressurized air extensively, Kontakt360 if you don't have compressor and air gun | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | RST38h: no ethanol, so probably not what you like to digest | 16:44 |
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| RST38h | Doc: higher spirits are also drinkable | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Doc: apparently not as enjoyable though =) | 16:49 |
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| grammoboy | thx guys ciao | 16:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | [council elections] I request adding a virtual nobody as electable option to the ballot. So despite we might have maybe 6 (or 42) candidates, everybody can vote for limiting council to maybe 2 members by putting "nobody" on position 3 of his ballot. Counting votes for candidates would stop then as soon as "nobody" was the next elected candidate. If all voters put "nobody" on position #1, then "nobody" was first elected member of council | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | and thus council basically disestablished by community | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I think it's not "fair" or really democratic to not offer an opportunity to vote *against* the whole thing. As it's now we only have the option to (partially) not vote at all, giving some or all of our 5 votes to oblivion | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | so as it's now there could be | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | so as it's now there could get council members legitly elected by 1% of interested voters while 99% preferring to NOT see this candidate in council have no voice | 17:18 |
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| kerio | i love how DocScrutinizer06 is desperately looking for ways not to be elected | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: I suggested exactly this thing for last elections already | 17:19 |
| kerio | anyway, why do we need a council and a board? | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | since it's obvious that - when there are lesser candidates than positions - now there's no sense in vote at all, while maybe 100% of those eligible to vote would prefer no council to a council with exactly those candidates | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | kerio: a very good question | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | (prefer no council) or, more real life related, maybe community would prefer a council with only 4 members over one with that particular candidate as 5th member. Recently there's no way to express this notion in your vote | 17:22 |
| kerio | can you vote for the same dudes in council and board? | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | yes | 17:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | and reading backlog of [community] ML I found some mails that read to me like self-nominations (though not very loud and clear). E.G I'd consider woody as already having nominated himself for council as well | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | Luke-Jr as well | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | misterC maybe too | 17:25 |
| Luke-Jr | [14:19:04] <kerio> i love how DocScrutinizer06 is desperately looking for ways not to be elected | 17:26 |
| Luke-Jr | lol | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | well, council nomination period got automatically extended by one month this night already, so I hope there will step up some more candidates | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | and I think one of the more reasonable tasks of next council was to redefine own foundation definition and resulting duties, and ask community about what they think about all that. Maybe council will self-disestablish, or redefine own rationale, or just unify with board/foundation, or whatever | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | since as it stands now, the #1 purpose of council ceases to exist: >>The Council's mission is to "represent the Maemo community's best interests, and to act as a community conduit for Nokia-generated information."<< | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | when Nokia is no more relevant for $maemo, so how's council as a embassador between community and Nokia? | 17:33 |
| teotwaki__ | Usually, not having enough people to stand up for community council elections means there's not much of a community to represent anymore. | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | quite possible | 17:33 |
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| teotwaki__ | If there's one thing that communities attract, it's ego-centric idiots. Ego-centric idiots love fame, so they stand for community council (doesn't mean they get elected). No ego-centric idiots offering themselves up ==> no community to attract them. | 17:34 |
| kerio | teotwaki__: well, hildon foundation has got some people | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | at least I guess a lot of those who define themselves as "maemo community members" now, they just don't see the use of any council representing them | 17:34 |
| narcos | I'm trying to test if two processes are both running, but can't seem to get the bash AND operation to work, any ideas? : | 17:35 |
| narcos | if [[ ps a | grep -v grep | grep -q process1 && ps a | grep -v grep | grep -q process2 ]]; then echo yes; fi | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | the unexpressibly unfortunate device award mess also didn't help to increase reputation of council entity in community's point of view | 17:37 |
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| teotwaki__ | narcos: if [ `ps a | grep -v grep | grep -c process1` gt 0 ] && [ `ps a | grep -v grep | grep -c process2` gt 0 ]; then echo yes; fi | 17:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | meh | 17:39 |
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| narcos | teotwaki__: "[: gt: binary operator expected" | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | man 2 kill >> If sig is 0, then no signal is sent, but error checking is still performed; this can be used to check for the existence of a process ID or process group ID.<< | 17:40 |
| teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer06: pidof ftw | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | :nod: that too | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pidof $process >/dev/null | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | if pidof process1 >/dev/null && pidof process2 >/dev/null; then | 17:43 |
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| teotwaki__ | narcos: there's this, also: pidof foobar > /dev/null; process_count=$?; pidof otherbar > /dev/null; process_count=`expr $process_count + $?`; if [ $process_count eq 2 ] ; then echo yes; fi | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | alas "pidof program [program...]" does OR, not AND | 17:44 |
| narcos | Ahhh I didn't know about those options, cool | 17:45 |
| teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer06: actually, it does | 17:45 |
| teotwaki__ | pidof bar foo | wc -w | 17:45 |
| narcos | However, I'm actually looking for the presence of a python script that's running - so I don't think this will work? I look for "ps a | grep python | grep -v grep | grep myscript.py" | 17:46 |
| teotwaki__ | you don't need grep -v grep | 17:47 |
| teotwaki__ | or maybe you do, I don't remember | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | sorry that's not really failsafe. Since you can invoke python scripts directly, just like shellscripts. Given you got the right shebang | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | narcos: ^^^ | 17:48 |
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| narcos | Yeah, true. But the python script should only ever be called from a bash script that launches it | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | and if you're really going to use grep, then you should exploit REGEX for pattern | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | not pipe from one grep to next to next | 17:49 |
| narcos | Basically, I have a bash script which amongst other things launches some python scripts. When the bash script runs I want to output whether the python scripts were successfully executed. | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | err, executed? then check for $? of each one | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I guess you don't mean "executed" but rather "started" | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | narcos: btw ((I look for "ps a | grep p...)) note that maemo standard messybox ps doesn't take any parameters really | 17:52 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer06: Actually that is how I'm currently doing it, checking for $? - but I also want to make sure other 'stale' instances don't exist | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | killall? ;-D | 17:53 |
| teotwaki__ | pkill -f ftw | 17:53 |
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| narcos | Actually yeah, I think I'll pull in some aggressive killing | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | killall even returns if there's been any process to kill | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | so you can emit proper warning msg in your script | 17:54 |
| narcos | I don't want to 'killall python' though? | 17:54 |
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| narcos | Maybe: | 17:55 |
| narcos | for i in `ps a | grep 'python' | grep 'prog1\|prog2.py' | grep -v grep| cut -d " " -f 2`; do kill -9 $i &> /dev/null; done | 17:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | killall "full process name" && echo "WARNING! stale process detected and killed" >&2 | 17:55 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer06: Nice | 17:57 |
| gena2x | Hi all. Seem i have really slow write speed to my sd card inside n900. It takes 40 second to write 100 mb with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk bs=1M count=100. is this normal? | 17:57 |
| gena2x | *mmcblk1 | 17:58 |
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| gena2x | that's a 2.5Mb/S which doesn't sound good | 17:58 |
| kerio | gena2x: echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests | 17:58 |
| gena2x | holy .... | 17:59 |
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| kerio | what? | 17:59 |
| gena2x | 8s | 18:00 |
| gena2x | 40s -> 8s | 18:00 |
| gena2x | any link for more info? | 18:00 |
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| gena2x | and thank you much btw | 18:00 |
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| kerio | ^_____^ | 18:02 |
| Sicelo | kerio: btw, is that permanent? | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | nope | 18:02 |
| kerio | Sicelo: i have http://fpaste.org/aP4o/raw/ right at the end of my /etc/init.d/rcS | 18:03 |
| Sicelo | ah, i see Maemo has sysctl | 18:03 |
| Sicelo | thanks for those :) | 18:04 |
| gena2x | kerio, unsure if this actually helps | 18:04 |
| kerio | it does | 18:04 |
| gena2x | kerio, just increase some buffers | 18:04 |
| gena2x | i pushed count=1000 | 18:04 |
| kerio | er, it doesn't | 18:04 |
| gena2x | and it turned to be 4m1s | 18:04 |
| kerio | Sicelo: you need procps installed for /etc/sysctl.conf to work | 18:04 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: try swappolube, it has settings to play with io scheduler | 18:05 |
| gena2x | freemangordon, but what's actually wrong? | 18:05 |
| freemangordon | which one is wrong? | 18:05 |
| gena2x | freemangordon, with write speed i mean | 18:05 |
| kerio | gena2x: a high nr_requests allows for I/O to be put in order before being executed | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | you lost me like 3 min ago | 18:06 |
| kerio | I/O sucks for random writes | 18:06 |
| gena2x | kerio, then i am doing dd i am doing perfectly sequental writes | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | modulo swap ;-P | 18:06 |
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| kerio | yep | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | aah, yes, DocScrutinizer06 has a point here :D | 18:07 |
| gena2x | DocScrutinizer06, hi my old fellow hater | 18:07 |
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| freemangordon | sometimes I forget the stock maemo has swap on eMMC | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | gena2x: hi! sorry for mistaking your name 3 years ago | 18:08 |
| freemangordon | LOL | 18:08 |
| gena2x | DocScrutinizer06: 1 year! =) | 18:08 |
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| gena2x | freemangordon: took a look to swappolube, i'm fine with command-line interface | 18:10 |
| gena2x | but why in hell sd write speed is 2.5MiB/s? if this only for me or everyone has such speeds? | 18:11 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: those are my settings http://pastebin.com/xNiFwSPK | 18:12 |
| freemangordon | have in mind my swap is on uSD | 18:12 |
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| gena2x | setting are settings, but what's your write speed? | 18:13 |
| freemangordon | could you paste your script again? | 18:14 |
| freemangordon | dd one | 18:14 |
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| gena2x | i just can't install debian because process of installing base system takes more that a day | 18:14 |
| gena2x | if=/dev/zero of=file bs=1M count=100 | 18:15 |
| gena2x | time dd if=/dev/zero of=file bs=1M count=100 | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | ok | 18:15 |
| Sicelo | didn't for me, although i did it a long while back | 18:15 |
| Sicelo | debian base system, i mean... | 18:15 |
| gena2x | don't use my old cmdline it would destroy data on /dev/mmcblk1 | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | it's all about free memory and swap usage | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | hmm, fs plays role too | 18:16 |
| kerio | 7,9 MB/s here | 18:16 |
| gena2x | here, i have 1min on fs and 40 second without | 18:16 |
| gena2x | hmmmm | 18:16 |
| gena2x | kerio, do you use some custom settings? | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | base limit on eMMC write is like 12MB/s | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | iirc | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | real 0m 17.45s sys 0m 2.02s | 18:17 |
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| freemangordon | 5.73 | 18:18 |
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| gena2x | freemangordon: can you run once again with count=200 please? | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | but that is in /home/user/MyDocs/tmp | 18:18 |
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| freemangordon | i.e. vfat | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | yeah LOL, rather ambiguous testbed | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 18:19 |
| gena2x | this is to eliminate effect of caches | 18:19 |
| Sicelo | gena2x: getting debian's base system up needs all this? | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | 0m 45.89s , 4.36 MB/s | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | please s^file^/path/to/file^ | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | will try that in /opt | 18:20 |
| gena2x | Sicelo, i really tried to install it. twice. but i can't, because seems each subsequental write request take longer and longer | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: use my settings | 18:21 |
| kerio | yep, you need a bigger nr_requests | 18:21 |
| kerio | freemangordon: 512? :c | 18:21 |
| gena2x | so i decided to investigate what's going on | 18:21 |
| freemangordon | yep | 18:21 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: you should account for responsiveness too ;) | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | bs=100M count=1 | 18:21 |
| kerio | saving 32kb of ram won't help responsiveness | 18:22 |
| kerio | or something | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | bs=100k count=1000 | 18:22 |
| kerio | (it's probably a lot more, but ok) | 18:22 |
| freemangordon | in /opt real 0m 36.86s, 5.42 MB/s | 18:22 |
| gena2x | not good actually | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | free | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | flush | 18:23 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: it is not because of the RAM, I used transmission for stresstest to find the optimal settings :D | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | higher nr_requests will result in higher io rate, but UI will stutter | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | swappiness | 18:25 |
| gena2x | and it doesn't answer question why sequental write is so slow | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | gena2x: the 7th time, consider swap! | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: as it is not sequental | 18:25 |
| gena2x | DocScrutinizer06, how dd related to swap? | 18:25 |
| gena2x | freemangordon, write with dd is not sequental? why? | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: fs , that is why | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | how is any arbitrary binary execution related to swap? | 18:26 |
| gena2x | freemangordon, i observe same result with writing directly to device | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | which device? | 18:26 |
| gena2x | mmcblk1 | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | *sigh* | 18:27 |
| gena2x | /dev/mmcblk1 | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | isn't that uSD? | 18:27 |
| gena2x | it is | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | well, by a faster one | 18:27 |
| gena2x | heh | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | I was not kidding | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | each IO in queue has a buffer of the data to write. In RAM. To make more space for buffers, the OS swaps out stuff. This creates more IO to complete | 18:28 |
| kerio | gena2x: i thought we were talking about the eMMC | 18:28 |
| kerio | most uSDs, especially non-sandisk ones, suck balls | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | yeah, me too | 18:28 |
| gena2x | my question is it a limit of usd or controller | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: no limit there, will give you the result for my 16G class 10 sandisk in several seconds | 18:29 |
| gena2x | freemangordon, cool would be excellent! do 200mb write please | 18:29 |
| gena2x | DocScrutinizer06, i got your idea. but i am usure that things are really work in this way. it's easy to check - just need to turn swap off | 18:30 |
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| freemangordon | real 0m 24.24s, 8.25 MB/s | 18:30 |
| pozic | How do I connect to a hidden wifi network? | 18:31 |
| pozic | The stupid GUI interface doesn't allow me to configure that. | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | sure it does | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: have in mind my swap is on the same device | 18:31 |
| Sicelo | PEBKAC | 18:31 |
| kerio | pozic: if any hidden wifi network is detected, you get a "hidden wifi" button and then you can input the SSID | 18:31 |
| APTX | pozic: add it manually in settings | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | pozic: using the stupid UI, manually enter network id | 18:31 |
| kerio | pozic: or you can add it manually, and then it'll always appear | 18:31 |
| gena2x | ok, i turned off swap with swapoff -a | 18:32 |
| kerio | hmm, this was a bit underwhelming | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: nooo | 18:32 |
| pozic | APTX: I only get in this 'wizard'. | 18:32 |
| kerio | 2gb in vfat, 3,3 MB/s | 18:32 |
| pozic | APTX: which doesn't support it. | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: you'll have OOM reboot | 18:32 |
| gena2x | freemangordon, done and i'm fine | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | ok, if you say so | 18:32 |
| pozic | Ok, I got it. | 18:32 |
| pozic | Thanks | 18:33 |
| gena2x | 256MiB is really enough | 18:33 |
| APTX | pozic: doesn't support what? | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: otoh hidden network is generally deprecated since it *reduces* safety | 18:33 |
| gena2x | seem i still have like 15MiB free memory | 18:33 |
| gena2x | acc to top | 18:33 |
| pozic | DocScrutinizer06: it does? How? | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: so if you want to connect to that hidden SSID, I assume you have control over the AP. So it's up to you to change that unfortunate setting | 18:34 |
| pozic | DocScrutinizer06: I have control over it, yes. | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: which reminds me... that we can use swappless maemo to check the benefits of -thumb | 18:34 |
| pozic | DocScrutinizer06: it just doesn't make sense that it would be less secure because of that. | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: it makes your devices axpose more info about their configuration AFAIK | 18:34 |
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| gena2x | ok. 3.3, but that should be real speed of this usd card | 18:35 |
| pozic | DocScrutinizer06: which wireless standards does the n900 support? | 18:35 |
| gena2x | let's get my usd out and write to it via adapter on PC | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | is it some adata? | 18:35 |
| APTX | pozic: it's less secure because some fake AP can claim is your AP | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: 802.11b/g iirc | 18:35 |
| pozic | DocScrutinizer06: i.e., b/g/n pick the highest. | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: what is the brand? | 18:35 |
| pozic | Thanks | 18:35 |
| gena2x | kingston | 18:36 |
| freemangordon | ooo, that is crap | 18:36 |
| freemangordon | get a good class 4 sandisk | 18:36 |
| gena2x | i am ready to go and buy anything else if that would make my sd work really faster | 18:36 |
| gena2x | i just want to be sure that this would help | 18:37 |
| pozic | And how do I select WPA2 as the security method? | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: also your device will try to associate to alien "hidden" AP, thus exposing all the stuff you wanna keep secret to those | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | gena2x: sequental writes does not matter really | 18:37 |
| pozic | There is only NONE, WEP, WPA pre-shared key and WPA with EAP | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | ponyofdeath: WPA pre-shared | 18:38 |
| freemangordon | oops | 18:38 |
| freemangordon | pozic: ^^^ | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I'm not even sure N900 supports WPA2, but that might be just me | 18:38 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer06: this is what I use at home | 18:38 |
| APTX | it does | 18:38 |
| pozic | freemangordon: I don't know whether my router supports WPA pre-shared. | 18:38 |
| APTX | it does | 18:39 |
| Sicelo | heh | 18:39 |
| freemangordon | <pozic> There is only NONE, WEP, WPA pre-shared key and WPA with EAP | 18:39 |
| APTX | it's the basic method | 18:39 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: it does, and you should use wpa2psk only | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I know | 18:39 |
| pozic | freemangordon: those are the choices that the phone offers... | 18:39 |
| APTX | note that some routers call wpa2 wpa | 18:39 |
| pozic | freemangordon: not the router. | 18:39 |
| freemangordon | aah | 18:39 |
| pozic | The router did not display any preshared keys. | 18:39 |
| freemangordon | pozic: are you sure it is setup correctly? | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | obviously it isn't | 18:40 |
| pozic | freemangordon: yes, because it works. | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | WPS? | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | prolly | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | though I thought N900 definitely has problems with WPS | 18:40 |
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| pozic | Let me be clear: the phone does not connect currently. | 18:40 |
| Sicelo | worked fine with WPS on mine | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | never ever enable/use WPS | 18:40 |
| pozic | I would like it to use WPA2. | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | yeah, WPS is straight from hell | 18:41 |
| pozic | What's so special about WPA2? | 18:41 |
| APTX | it's secure | 18:41 |
| pozic | Does it require a special chip? | 18:41 |
| pozic | I.e. why doesn't the N900 support it? | 18:41 |
| APTX | it dpoes support it | 18:41 |
| pozic | WPA2 was released at N900 release time. | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | pozic: n900 supports it | 18:41 |
| pozic | APTX: there is no option to select it. | 18:42 |
| pozic | APTX: i.e. no 'WPA2'. | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | pozic: select WPA | 18:42 |
| APTX | I said it's sometimes called wpa without the 2 | 18:42 |
| pozic | freemangordon: there is WPA with preshared key. | 18:42 |
| pozic | freemangordon: there is no WPA | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: generally it's the AP that decides what to use | 18:42 |
| APTX | it uses wpa2 | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | pozic: but you don;t know the keys? | 18:42 |
| pozic | freemangordon: I have one key. | 18:43 |
| pozic | freemangordon: but it's not a PSK | 18:43 |
| freemangordon | on your own AP? come on | 18:43 |
| freemangordon | what is it then? | 18:43 |
| Sicelo | :P | 18:43 |
| APTX | wpa with eap is the pki method | 18:43 |
| pozic | freemangordon: it's a WPA2 password. | 18:44 |
| kerio | there's a way to force the n900 to only use wpa2 | 18:44 |
| kerio | and most routers have a way to require wpa2 | 18:44 |
| kerio | (-psk) | 18:44 |
| pozic | kerio: continue please | 18:44 |
| gena2x | ok, i am an idiot, i had to do PC test of my sd card before asking anyone for help =) on PC, it has same speed | 18:44 |
| kerio | pozic: it's just a checkbox in the connection settings iirc | 18:44 |
| gena2x | thanks everyone for help. | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | gena2x: lol | 18:44 |
| gena2x | i gone to buy new one =) | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | :-) | 18:44 |
| kerio | gena2x: buy a sandisk | 18:45 |
| freemangordon | pozic: and you should be able to read the damn password. that password is your pre-shared key | 18:45 |
| kerio | an original sandisk | 18:45 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 18:45 |
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| freemangordon | gena2x: don't buy anything but sandisk | 18:45 |
| kerio | pozic: yep, advanced settings->other->wpa2 only | 18:45 |
| Sicelo | pozic: it's on Advanced settings | 18:45 |
| freemangordon | is it system wide or connection specific? | 18:46 |
| APTX | pozic: it's called pre shared key because you have to know the password in advance to be able to connect | 18:46 |
| gena2x | freemangordon: yeah, seems reviews fully support this statement. so gone to buy sandisk =) | 18:46 |
| Sicelo | connection-specific | 18:46 |
| kerio | freemangordon: connection specific | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | ok | 18:47 |
| pozic | Why didn't they just call all of their security methods something like <year of release>-<letter>? | 18:48 |
| kerio | because that would be retarded | 18:48 |
| pozic | That would have been a lot easier than WPA, WPA2, WPA2-personal, WPA2-enterprise. | 18:48 |
| freemangordon | LOL | 18:48 |
| pozic | Everyone uses different human readable names to 'help' the user. | 18:49 |
| pozic | I find it confusing as hell. | 18:49 |
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| freemangordon | pozic: when did you buy your n900? | 18:49 |
| pozic | freemangordon: a year ago or so. | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_security | 18:50 |
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| pozic | Ok, it seems to have worked. | 18:53 |
| pozic | In an effort to make things 'easy to use' things actually have been made worse, imho. | 18:54 |
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| kerio | hold on, so you configured your router without knowing what the options meant? | 18:54 |
| freemangordon | ;) | 18:54 |
| APTX | sounds liek a typical user to me :3 | 18:55 |
| pozic | kerio: my router doesn't use PSK terminology. | 18:55 |
| pozic | kerio: or well, it does. | 18:55 |
| pozic | kerio: but it only does that when I select another option, which I think it disabled. | 18:55 |
| pozic | kerio: there is a radio button interface. | 18:55 |
| pozic | kerio: as such, UI standards say that means those are exclusive choices. | 18:56 |
| pozic | kerio: if they fucked that up, how am I supposed to know what the device actually does? | 18:56 |
| kerio | pozic: www.google.it | 18:56 |
| pozic | kerio: it seems to have accepted the password as the PSK. | 18:56 |
| kerio | er, .com | 18:56 |
| pozic | kerio: I read the manual. | 18:56 |
| kerio | that's also a good option, yes | 18:56 |
| pozic | kerio: they do not document these kinds of things. | 18:57 |
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| pozic | kerio: as such, IMHO a user should not be expected to know this. | 18:57 |
| kerio | a user is also not supposed to set up a network | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | then by no more routers made by "them" | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | *buy | 18:57 |
| pozic | freemangordon: this is already a good brand. | 18:57 |
| kerio | pozic: which brand is it? | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | sure | 18:57 |
| pozic | kerio: Netgear | 18:58 |
| kerio | LOL | 18:58 |
| pozic | kerio: what else do you want? Cisco?> | 18:58 |
| pozic | kerio: I don't have 10000 employees here. | 18:58 |
| pozic | kerio: I can install DD-WRT on it. | 18:58 |
| kerio | ...so do it | 18:58 |
| pozic | kerio: as such, I can essentially do anything with it. | 18:59 |
| pozic | kerio: conclusion: it's not a bad device. | 18:59 |
| kerio | dd-wrt still expects you to kinda know stuff | 18:59 |
| pozic | kerio: and I do. | 18:59 |
| kerio | sure, you do now ;) | 18:59 |
| freemangordon | LOL | 18:59 |
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| pozic | kerio: I know what I wanted. It's just that the interfaces, both on the Nokia and on the router suck in combination with eachother. | 18:59 |
| pozic | kerio: they should sit together some day and talk to eachother. | 19:00 |
| pozic | kerio: there is no chance in hell that a mortal user would be able to connect without brute forcing the GUI. | 19:00 |
| pozic | (i.e. try all options in a semi-intelligent way, until it connects) | 19:00 |
| pozic | Also, I am not the only one who has asked this question. | 19:01 |
| pozic | Look on tmo. | 19:01 |
| pozic | That should give a clue to UI designers that they as a collective have failed. | 19:01 |
| kerio | double LOL | 19:01 |
| pozic | It might be that the Nokia people did their best given the current constraints. | 19:02 |
| kerio | but yeah, i suppose that "consumer" stuff calls it wpa-personal | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | ((<kerio> dd-wrt still expects you to kinda know stuff)) http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_security | 19:02 |
| pozic | But still, as a whole failure was created. | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | as a whole, you created failure by hiding SSID | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | connecting to a named network usually is a painless process on N900 | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | since device autodetects encryption set up on your AP | 19:04 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | so you don't need to know anything | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | *on N900* | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | you _definitely_ should know what you're doing when you set up your AP though | 19:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | and, as already mentioned, hidden SSID is generally deprecated. Though some router/AP manufs still recommend it in their manuals and/or GUI | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | pozic: if you bother to read http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_security , you'll get an idea about the different setting options | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | only thing it doesn't cover is the (as well deprecated) WPS or whatever the name - seems every router manufacturer names it differently, it's that "push this button on yozr router to associate to random devices" bullshit | 19:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | WiFi Protected Setup | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | *BAD*! | 19:10 |
| merlin1991 | gotta love rave, or how was the utility called? | 19:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: and also a way to crack your wifi network in 4 hours at most | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | http://code.google.com/p/reaver-wps/ | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: ^^^ :) | 19:11 |
| merlin1991 | well something with r e v and a in the name ;) | 19:12 |
| kerio | it's an 8-digit pin, but you can crack the first four digits separately, because the engineers who thought about it knew nothing about security | 19:12 |
| kerio | or something | 19:12 |
| freemangordon | yes | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | LOL | 19:12 |
| freemangordon | and the last digit is a checksum :D:D:D | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | LOL^2 | 19:13 |
| freemangordon | so at most 9999 + 999 tries you have it | 19:14 |
| kerio | well, 10000 + 1000 | 19:14 |
| freemangordon | aah, yes, 0000 000 is valid too | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | is it? | 19:14 |
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| freemangordon | nothinf gorbids it AFAIK | 19:14 |
| merlin1991 | well the biggest problem is, that the current generation of cheapo aps has no flood control for the wps "login" | 19:14 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | fsck the crap | 19:15 |
| freemangordon | and noone bothers to fix the firmware | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | any luser using it deserves it | 19:15 |
| merlin1991 | kinda reminds me of the time where quake3 rcon had no flood control, take over any server in 5 to 24 hours :P | 19:15 |
| freemangordon | though my cheapo TPLINK has an option to enable it (it is disabled by default ;) ) | 19:16 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer06: well for example on the router of my friend it's not even possible to turn it off | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | OMG | 19:16 |
| merlin1991 | and then there's the thing that the router resets itself to factory defaults every now and then, ... | 19:16 |
| freemangordon | BTW who made that WPS crap? | 19:16 |
| kerio | freemangordon: mikrotik or gtfo | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | so we're almost back to happy WEP times, where you could crack every single one of the 20% encrypted AP you find out there? | 19:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer06: AFAIK WPS is even worse | 19:17 |
| freemangordon | fow WEP you need some CPU power | 19:17 |
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| freemangordon | *for | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | :nod: | 19:17 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer06: oh, and most crappy routers crash if you try too many pins too quickly | 19:18 |
| freemangordon | assuming you have a good signal strength, n900 cracks WPS in a matter of hours | 19:18 |
| merlin1991 | well tbh the worst thing in widespread use currently regarding wireless is the average *billed wifi* in hotest, not encrypted and routing based on users mac address | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | haha, thats not a bug, that's a security feature | 19:18 |
| merlin1991 | s/hotest/hotels/ | 19:19 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: well tbh the worst thing in widespread use currently regarding wireless is the average *billed wifi* in hotels, not encrypted and routing based on users mac address | 19:19 |
| freemangordon | yeah, funny | 19:19 |
| freemangordon | as if you can't kick someone from the network :D | 19:19 |
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| freemangordon | s/from/out of/ | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | merlin1991: a lot of those are so poorly set up that you easily can avoid the proxy, or just stay on login AP | 19:19 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: as if you can't kick someone out of the network :D | 19:19 |
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| freemangordon | though here ususally hotel routers are set up to use WPA-psk and are free, you anly need to ask for the password at no additional charge | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | but best thing on hotels is the "use this AP, it's our free internet offer" exploit, which has revealed several company secrets already X-P | 19:21 |
| freemangordon | wow, gcc-linaro toolchain is built | 19:21 |
| kerio | neat | 19:22 |
| merlin1991 | well it's just plain stupid to use an unencrypted, or wpa-personal encrypted ap for sensitive stuff without a vpn | 19:22 |
| freemangordon | now I only need to find a way to tweak it to be usable in SB :D:D:D | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | well, tell that the big bosses of IBM et al | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | ;-P | 19:22 |
| merlin1991 | I love the fake "security" of wpa psk encrypted hotspots :D | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | yeah | 19:23 |
| merlin1991 | your traffic is encrypted! (but we do not tell you that anyone in posession of the passphrase can decrypt it) | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | or even route it to his own proxy AP | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | for deep SPI | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | and proper filtering/tweaking/MIM attacks | 19:25 |
| merlin1991 | btw any madness on mailinglist, or can I feel save opening my mail client? | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | hmm? | 19:25 |
| merlin1991 | limited connection here, and with all the council / board / whatnot going on there could be quite some spam | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I don't think there's extraordinary insanity going on ATM | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | actually I'm worried about [community] has not a single mail today yet | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | this might count as madness too ;-) | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | lol, it seems atm I'm the only fresh candidate for elections | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | everybody else is or has been council before | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | GeneralAntilles: POKE | 19:31 |
| *** DocScrutinizer06 is now known as DocScrutinizer05 | 19:31 | |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05 will be our enlightened despot! | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NO I WONT >:-( | 19:33 |
| kerio | HEIL JOERG o/ | 19:33 |
| freemangordon | I am leaving :D:D:D | 19:33 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 too | 19:33 | |
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| kerio | pff, don't be silly | 19:34 |
| kerio | you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leeeeeeeeeeeeave | 19:34 |
| kerio | hm, how do i repartition my eMMC in a sensible way? | 19:40 |
| Sicelo | meaning? | 19:40 |
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| kerio | without losing the stuff in mydocs, for instance :) | 19:40 |
| * kerio ponders about removing the swap partition | 19:41 | |
| Gh0sty | with a hammer am shizzle? :p | 19:41 |
| Gh0sty | what no swap? | 19:41 |
| kerio | Gh0sty: sd | 19:41 |
| Gh0sty | the device already lacks memory ... you are going to remove swap? :o | 19:41 |
| Gh0sty | yes so moving to an even slower device looks like a sane plan? :p | 19:41 |
| Sicelo | kerio: i used wiki.. usb mass storage option in BackupMenu is very handy for that | 19:42 |
| kerio | Gh0sty: no, that's not the problem | 19:42 |
| kerio | i'm already using swap on the uSD | 19:42 |
| kerio | and yes, it makes things faster | 19:42 |
| kerio | because you don't constantly have multiple things reading/writing the emmc | 19:42 |
| kerio | meh, let's wreck my n900 | 19:43 |
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| kerio | hmm, i just realized that i don't have mkfs.ext3 on os x | 19:44 |
| kerio | :s | 19:44 |
| Sicelo | making a new partiton? for what? | 19:47 |
| kerio | Sicelo: i want to embiggen homefs | 19:48 |
| kerio | i don't have the e2fsprogs | 19:48 |
| kerio | and i can't login from backupmenu | 19:48 |
| kerio | because it wants to run /bin/bash, and it's not there in its chroot jail | 19:49 |
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| kerio | Sicelo: and anyway, i would just make a new partition and then use BM to restore the data | 19:50 |
| kerio | hmm, actually i don't even have to do that | 19:50 |
| Sicelo | i don't see why you need a new partition.. don't you need to reduce on of those currently existing (MyDocs), then enlarge /home ? | 19:52 |
| kerio | ...how the hell am i supposed to enlarge /home? | 19:52 |
| kerio | make the partition bigger, and then make a new fs | 19:52 |
| kerio | or extend it with resize2fs | 19:52 |
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| Sicelo | new fs is unnecessary, aiui.. that's what will lose data. i didn't lose anything when i enlarged my /home to 8GB | 19:54 |
| kerio | because you resized the partition | 19:54 |
| Sicelo | well, i did create a new fs as well, but that was for playing with debian | 19:55 |
| kerio | file systems don't work by magic | 19:55 |
| kerio | hmm, os x *can* resize vfat partitions... | 19:55 |
| Sicelo | :-\ | 19:56 |
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| kerio | hrmpf, it can't, for some stupid reason | 19:59 |
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| kerio | oh god what D: | 20:04 |
| * kerio shakes his fist at robbiethe1st | 20:04 | |
| kerio | the clock is borked | 20:04 |
| kerio | and now i have no homefs | 20:04 |
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| Sicelo | :-\ | 20:07 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: messing your partitions ftw | 20:07 |
| Sicelo | robbie's tool worked well for me. nothing unexpected happened | 20:08 |
| kerio | this is fun :D | 20:11 |
| kerio | yeah but my clock got borked | 20:11 |
| kerio | because my twl is still in somewhat of a fscked-up state | 20:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, n900-full-reset doesn't seem to work properly | 20:11 |
| * kerio shakes his fist at Pali | 20:11 | |
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| kerio | hehe, i have 19700101-0001-rootfs.tar and 19700101-0001-optfs.tar | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: when clock gets reset this indicates a full reset of TWL4030 happened | 20:13 |
| kerio | hm | 20:13 |
| * kerio shakes his fist in reverse at Pali | 20:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any further mystery probably caused by NOLO or kernel | 20:14 |
| kerio | anyway, robbiethe1st should really fix this couple of bugs in BM | 20:14 |
| kerio | is there a bug tracker? | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I've seen one in Taipei lately | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he had a long black beard | 20:15 |
| Sicelo | lol | 20:15 |
| kerio | ...wat | 20:15 |
| kerio | anyway, to fix the "timestamp in the future" problem, i used bootmenu's usb networking shell to set the date correctly | 20:16 |
| kerio | also, the n900 is really unstable when on a desk, without the otterbox :s | 20:17 |
| kerio | pushing on the keyboard makes it sway on a side | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not exactly new | 20:18 |
| kerio | yeah but i only noticed it now | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I kinda criticised that ID flaw on day one of my first N900 | 20:18 |
| kerio | because i had to remove the battery, and thus the otterbox | 20:18 |
| kerio | also, i have an otterbox | 20:19 |
| kerio | otterbox | 20:19 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: did you know i have an otterbox? | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah I heard you breed those rodents | 20:20 |
| kerio | hmm, i wonder which timezone i set the date on | 20:20 |
| kerio | yay, the correct one | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: didn't you set some CAL options lately, like force-poweron or whatever? | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I really have to run | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya | 20:23 |
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| kerio | see? you can't leave #maemo ;) | 20:23 |
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| kerio | can someone paste the output of "grep swapon /etc/event.d/rcS-late" please? | 20:26 |
| kerio | someone with an unmodified rcS-late | 20:26 |
| NIN101 | can't paste it(have a modified one) but from my head it was just swapon -a | 20:26 |
| Sicelo | /sbin/swapon -a || echo "Failed to enable paging partition." | 20:27 |
| kerio | Sicelo: ty | 20:27 |
| kerio | i still can't figure out how /dev/mmcblk1p2 can be exported via MSM if it's being used as a swap partition | 20:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | HOME_DEV=`grep "/home ext3" /etc/fstab | cut -d' ' -f1` | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsck.ext3 -y $HOME_DEV >> /var/lib/fsck_ext3_home.log 2>&1 | 20:30 |
| Sicelo | NIN101: looking at the issue kerio is/was working on, i wondered if RescueOS is able to to resize partitions? | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, there is an important line missing in between | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the one that sets a noticeable indication for user feedback about the fact that now it's going to enter a hours-long fsck enterprise | 20:31 |
| Sicelo | then again, it would take obscene amounts of time, i believe :P | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what? | 20:32 |
| kerio | Sicelo: extending forwards is no big deal | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it *will* | 20:32 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: kernel-power has some hooks to disable fsck if you want :3 | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, resize | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't give a big F about disabling stuff, when it's missing indication to user when it actually happens | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this friggin else branch needs a call to LP5523 to start a very distinctive LED pattern during fsck | 20:34 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: a proper fremantle install is a bunch of WTFs with a bunch of WTF-y workarounds | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all those reports of "OMG my device stays on moving dots since 30min now. I guess it's bricked" W*T*F | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | note to <self>: get that shit fixed in next CSSU | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should be pretty simple | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | a few echo 63243 >/sys/*/*/leds/*/machine | 20:38 |
| * gena2x bought new card and hopes that this time debian will be finally installed | 20:38 | |
| Sicelo | which instructions are you following btw? | 20:38 |
| gena2x | just debootstrap =) | 20:39 |
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| gena2x | have no need in instructions to do that | 20:39 |
| Sicelo | ok | 20:39 |
| gena2x | internet is spoiled with easy debian =) | 20:40 |
| gena2x | new card seem only 3.5 times faster =( | 20:40 |
| gena2x | but still | 20:40 |
| gena2x | i hope it will be over in one day =) | 20:40 |
| Sicelo | there's at least two people here who have installed the base systme in far less time ... | 20:41 |
| kerio | easy debian and easy chroot are two HUGE wtfs | 20:42 |
| gena2x | i am using ext3, may be it is a problem | 20:42 |
| gena2x | but i can't use vfat =) | 20:42 |
| gena2x | to install linux. i feel really bad then i am thinking about it | 20:43 |
| Sicelo | gena2x: the people i'm talking about also used ext3 | 20:43 |
| gena2x | Sicelo, good. let's see. now i got fastest sd on markey | 20:44 |
| gena2x | *market | 20:44 |
| kerio | gena2x: which one? | 20:44 |
| gena2x | kerio, ok, may be not the fastest | 20:44 |
| gena2x | kerio, but i got sandisk ultra | 20:44 |
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| gena2x | class 10 | 20:45 |
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| spoofy | Hello everyone :) Could someone tell my what is the difference between metasploit 4.4dev and 4.5? My msf after update is extremly slow | 21:03 |
| mark_g44 | yes, that's right :/ | 21:04 |
| mark_g44 | good question | 21:04 |
| spoofy | I've been searching about this and find that could be old ruby | 21:04 |
| spoofy | Could someone make/compile a new ruby (1.9)? | 21:05 |
| mark_g44 | it will be amazing | 21:06 |
| mark_g44 | :) | 21:06 |
| kerio | freemangordon: *poke* | 21:07 |
| kerio | the people want ruby | 21:07 |
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| kerio | so recompile python plskthx | 21:07 |
| kerio | because fuck ruby | 21:09 |
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| spoofy | We need newer ruby for metasploit. I compiled newest nmap and postgres but newer version of metasploit need newer ruby... | 21:12 |
| Sicelo | spoofy: did you have a look at the issues i had with new nmap? | 21:13 |
| gena2x | It is possible to run debian chroot from maemo. have anyone tried to run maemo from debian chroot? | 21:14 |
| gena2x | Brr | 21:14 |
| gena2x | i meant run maemo chroot from debian booted system | 21:14 |
| gena2x | omg i just can't believe | 21:15 |
| gena2x | installation completed | 21:15 |
| Sicelo | yes. possible | 21:15 |
| gena2x | really, reason were really, really, really, really crappy 32g kingston class 4 usd | 21:15 |
| gena2x | heh | 21:16 |
| gena2x | what a piece of shit. i spent two days installing debian to it | 21:16 |
| spoofy | Sicelo: no but I compile fully working version of nmap 6.01 | 21:16 |
| spoofy | Without interfaces bug and other | 21:17 |
| GGon | did oracle get rid of openoffice? | 21:20 |
| GGon | they're calling it apache openoffice now | 21:20 |
| GGon | weird | 21:20 |
| GGon | Copyright © 2012 Apache Software Foundation. All rights reserved. | 21:21 |
| gena2x | probably because everyone switched to libreoffice? | 21:22 |
| GGon | i suppose | 21:22 |
| gena2x | anyone tried to switch n900 to armhf? | 21:23 |
| gena2x | while retaining phone capabilities =) | 21:24 |
| kerio | armhf? | 21:30 |
| kerio | oh, hardfp | 21:30 |
| gena2x | yeah | 21:30 |
| kerio | ask freemangordon | 21:30 |
| kerio | he's the dude with the compiler flags | 21:30 |
| freemangordon | anyone with experience with crosstool-ng? | 21:30 |
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| spoofy | freemangordon: pls.. make a new ruby :D | 21:35 |
| mark_g44 | Hi freemangordon - would you make a new ruby ? :D and tell me how to use -mthumb flag | 21:37 |
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| freemangordon | hehe | 21:37 |
| mark_g44 | I setup linaro gcc 4.7.2 (according to tutorial form wiki maemo) and it's working nice but How can I use mthumb flag : ?) | 21:38 |
| freemangordon | -mthumb? | 21:38 |
| mark_g44 | on wiki maemo - use -mthumb for compile thumb binaries | 21:39 |
| mark_g44 | so i don't know :/ | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | that is compiler flag | 21:39 |
| mark_g44 | so i can use it with gcc ? | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html | 21:40 |
| mark_g44 | ok, thanks for link, but can i use it with "make" command ? | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | gcc -mthumb yourcoolstuff.c -o yourcoolstuff | 21:44 |
| kerio | mark_g44: sure, change CCFLAGS | 21:44 |
| mark_g44 | ok thanks, i will try it (now I'm on n900) :) | 21:45 |
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| internetishard | which file is the messages DB stored in? | 21:50 |
| kerio | .rtcom* | 21:51 |
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| kerio | or something | 21:51 |
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| mark_g44 | msg spoofy jestem | 21:56 |
| mark_g44 | delete it :p | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | internetishard: ""Service for logging of SMS"" ""RTCOM_EL_SERVICE_SMS"" in .rtcom-eventlogger/el.db | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually nowadays el-v1.db | 22:05 |
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| grammoboy | hm the n900 mediaplayer can only play from the Music folder? | 22:09 |
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| grammoboy | is there a mediaplayer who can use other folders? | 22:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | internetishard: from el-v1.db: ""ring/tel/ring<SelfHandle>o2 TeamLieber o2 Kunde, Ihr/e o2 Internet Pack L wird am 18.07.2010 automatisch für Sie verlängert, sofern Ihr Guthaben ausreichend ist.o2 Team"" | 22:10 |
| kerio | grammoboy: the mediaplayer shows all the tracked music | 22:10 |
| kerio | by default, tracker tracks *everything* | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and also: -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 600064 2012-09-29 18:43 el-v1.db --WTF 0.6MB | 22:11 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: sqlite doesn't forget | 22:11 |
| grammoboy | not my mounted folder via sshfs | 22:12 |
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| kerio | grammoboy: nope | 22:12 |
| kerio | add it | 22:12 |
| internetishard | yeah, I'm gonna try doing these steps: http://community.spiceworks.com/how_to/show/1468 | 22:12 |
| kerio | or don't, really | 22:12 |
| kerio | use the file browser to open the files | 22:12 |
| kerio | tracking over sshfs is... frightening | 22:12 |
| grammoboy | but then I can also add folders? | 22:13 |
| grammoboy | via file browser? | 22:13 |
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| kerio | idk | 22:13 |
| kerio | perhaps use a different media player | 22:13 |
| kerio | mafw isn't really that good, beyond the normal usecases | 22:14 |
| grammoboy | suggestions? | 22:14 |
| kerio | and mediaplayer is basically an interface to mafw+tracker | 22:14 |
| kerio | grammoboy: mplayer ;) | 22:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | grammoboy: there's a plugin of unspeakable name for mediaplayer, to directly access any file in *real* filesystem | 22:17 |
| kerio | by the way, do file uploads via microB work for someone? | 22:19 |
| grammoboy | mplayer I can use via command line | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | grilo | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grilo-0.1-plugins | 22:22 |
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| grammoboy | DocScrutinizer05, ah cool that works | 22:25 |
| gena2x | navit is something true hardcore. seem each user supposed to create own interface for this program. | 22:25 |
| grammoboy | yeah it's nasty | 22:26 |
| grammoboy | to setup | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grammoboy: another method: enter the URL "file://" into microB | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | click on your *.mp3 file you wanna play | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might actually come in handy, with bookmarks and desktop shorcuts | 22:29 |
| Sc0rpius_ | microb plays audio | 22:29 |
| Sc0rpius_ | ? | 22:29 |
| Sc0rpius_ | not even I did know that | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc you also can use filemanager just the same | 22:29 |
| grammoboy | microb is that standard installed? | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd not use filemanager as it also could delete your mp3 file ;-D | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the standard browser | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~reverse microB | 22:31 |
| infobot | Borcim | 22:31 |
| NIN101 | Borked. | 22:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | right now I got a shortcut on my desktop that goes straight to dir "/B/B-52's, The/Cosmic thing" and allows me to start any file/song in there with just 2 clicks from desktop | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably even could create a .index html file in that dir, to have a nice specific display in microB, with cover art and all info for every song and whatnot ;-) | 22:36 |
| kerio | we could get those to be procedurally generated | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 22:36 |
| kerio | we could add a way to... track files | 22:36 |
| r00t|home | i prefer xterm + mplayer ;) | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >:-( | 22:36 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ;) | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme suggest a name for your cute new project. hmmmm, HMMMMMM, maybe...... .... Tracker? | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: if you're interested in actually following that path: for whatever reason I got a dir .mediaartlocal here, with an unspeakable file album-*.jpeg in it. clicking on that file already shows B52's Cosmic Thing cover | 22:40 |
| kerio | ooh that's where they're saved | 22:42 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how do i rm -rf from find | 22:42 |
| kerio | -delete doesn't work, it only deletes single files | 22:43 |
| gena2x | -0 | xargs rm -rf {} | 22:44 |
| gena2x | smthing like that | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: -exec | 22:44 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, that's what i did | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only on real find, not on messybox abomination | 22:45 |
| kerio | i still don't trust xargs | 22:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: who do you think i am? | 22:45 |
| kerio | :c | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 22:45 |
| grammoboy | ok lemme backup first | 22:45 |
| grammoboy | I like the way I've my n900 atm | 22:45 |
| kerio | alright, deleted mediaartlocal and did tracker-processes -r | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grammoboy: BM | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 22:45 |
| kerio | hopefully i'll get cover art working properly | 22:45 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 22:45 |
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| grammoboy | backupmenu + nokia MyDocs backup | 22:46 |
| * kerio doesn't have anything in MyDocs that's not also somewhere else | 22:46 | |
| grammoboy | backupmenu doesn't backup MyDocs right? | 22:46 |
| grammoboy | kerio, speed for recovering ;) | 22:46 |
| kerio | grammoboy: it would be a fine topological exercise :3 | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you know MusOrgsky? | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Muss actually | 22:46 |
| grammoboy | my n900 is a multimedia king atm | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Music Organizer *sky | 22:47 |
| grammoboy | nice for my band | 22:47 |
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| kerio | nope | 22:47 |
| grammoboy | it records pretty good also afaik | 22:47 |
| kerio | i use itunes on my computer | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you might want to have a look at it, when you bother about album cover art | 22:48 |
| kerio | k | 22:49 |
| grammoboy | using arecord for cd quality recordings | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grammoboy: where to should BM backup the MyDocs content? | 22:49 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: in MyDocs, duh | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 22:50 |
| grammoboy | DocScrutinizer05, at a place where the sun doesn't shine | 22:50 |
| kerio | Klein's vfat | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((it records pretty good also afaik)) last wednesday I tried to do a "bootleg" of a concert I attended. shouldn't have relied on Recaller for that, it gave me 80min worth of pure silence :-/ | 22:51 |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:52 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: was the volume high? | 22:52 |
| Sicelo | wrong source? | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the ambient sounds were rather loud, yeah | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | source is set to "automatic" iirc | 22:52 |
| kerio | i meant the volume as in the volume slider | 22:52 |
| kerio | also you should've tested the recording first :) | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | standard | 22:53 |
| Sicelo | i find it better to choose the source manually | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never thought it was meant for recording level | 22:53 |
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| grammoboy | use arecord | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's been a spontanous idea. If I had planned it, I had used proper recorder | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and N950 since it has nice stereo mic | 22:54 |
| grammoboy | they must be hard to get | 22:54 |
| grammoboy | right? | 22:55 |
| grammoboy | n950 | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 22:55 |
| grammoboy | anyway if you want decent recording, don't use a phone | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I could sell you mine, for just 50% over usual market price (think of it as BUY-NOW on fleabay) ;-P | 22:55 |
| grammoboy | and what about n9? | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | same audio, much lower price ;-D | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I could sell you that one too ;-) | 22:56 |
| grammoboy | n9 are still around 300 euro at ebay 2nd hand | 22:57 |
| grammoboy | too much for a phone here | 22:57 |
| * grammoboy just bought a | 22:57 | |
| grammoboy | 'new' 2nd hand n900 for 70 euro :) | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mine isn't second hand, it's even ennobled by me touching it | 22:58 |
| kerio | damn, i paid 150€ for a n900 before the summer | 22:58 |
| kerio | it was almost brand new, though | 22:58 |
| grammoboy | I just emailed all the people offering a n900 and spent a week for the deal :) | 22:59 |
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| grammoboy | thx for the info guys | 23:01 |
| grammoboy | later | 23:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: now adimt I'm the greatest, with my microB music interface ;-P | 23:06 |
| kerio | you're the bestest | 23:06 |
| kerio | or something | 23:06 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: A Suicide Goes Viral On the Internet! | 23:41 |
| * RST38h rejoices | 23:41 | |
| SpeedEvil | why? | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | it wasn't elop. | 23:41 |
| RST38h | Speed:It has gone viral, so there is hope that sooner or later it reaches Elop and he offs himself | 23:45 |
| RST38h | Speed: If not though, a viral suicide is definitely good for Mother Earth and Environment | 23:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't, think the act is viral. | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil | though it does lead to copycats. | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil | which is why reporting it in such a manner is retarded and irresponsible | 23:46 |
| RST38h | that is what the wording implies though | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 23:47 |
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| kerio | "Man kills himself after realizing he's on Fox News" | 23:51 |
| SpeedEvil | at 18* the speed of light. | 23:51 |
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