IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-09-29

Woody14619My work is spinning up right now... Oct to March is our super-heavy season.00:00
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, heh00:00
DocScrutinizer05My professional future is on the deities as usual00:01
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* ShadowJK wonders what youtube makes of his location, currently outgoing requests are randomly originating from .nl or .fi for me :-)00:01
DocScrutinizer05right now my 40h+ week leaves me sleeping the rest of the time (aside from a lil IRC occasionally)00:02
DocScrutinizer05if only every tmo user would pay me 50ct / month, i probably could make a nice living from that and dedicate all my time 24/7 to maemo00:03
ShadowJKI know the feeling re 40/sleep :P00:03
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Woody14619Seriously?  Smart has lost it's mind.00:06
Woody14619At the next show they're showing a concept electic, get this "with a built in video projector, so every wall is a drive-in theater".00:07
Woody14619Is my calendar off?  Is it April 1st or something?
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: eh?00:09
DocScrutinizer05WTF is "smart"?00:09
DocScrutinizer05which show?00:09
DocScrutinizer05~dict electic00:09
infobotDictionary 'electic' \E*lec"tic\, a. See {Eclectic}. [1913 Webster]00:09
DocScrutinizer051913 ;-P00:10
Woody14619Paris at the Mondial de l’Automobile00:10
Woody14619smart is a car manufacturer00:11
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DocScrutinizer05meh, please don't talk about Automobile to me. Volkswagen said they're ueber-eager to get hold of me, after they've read what I done so far (buzzword backseat entertainment). But it means moving from South of Germany to North, permanently00:12
ShadowJKI'm considering purchasing an electric car atm00:13
RST38hDoc: "North" as in "Prussia"?00:14
kerioDocScrutinizer05: maemo-based car gogogogogo00:14
RST38hShadowJK: Oh god no.00:14
ShadowJKMy current wishlist consists of: Brushless motor, diesel(-ish) fired heater, well insulated battery compartment, oversized battery compartment, open documented motor control and battery charger and battery management system.00:14
DocScrutinizer05kerio: that's meego, you remember?00:14
keriono, i don't00:14
keriocuz meego sucks00:15
DocScrutinizer05meego backseat entertainment branch00:15
RST38hShadowJK: And the on-board controllers should run software written in emacs!00:15
DocScrutinizer05probably the only branch of meego that actually flourished00:15
RST38hmaybe because it wasnt really Meego?00:16
ShadowJKI can get the above sans brushless for 10kE from non-traditional manufacturers. I can get from established manufacturers only the brushless features from above, for 40kE.00:16
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: BS, this was *real* meego00:16
RST38hDoc The media one? Mmm... yeah maybe00:16
* RST38h stands corrected00:16
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RST38hShadowJK: Or you can get a turbodiesel Folkswagen00:16
RST38hShadowJK: and save on BOTH car and fuel00:17
ShadowJKI'd get a Chevy/Opel Volt/Ampera, if the price wasn't silly and if you could fix it yourself when it "bricks"00:17
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ShadowJKRST38h, local taxes make diesels extremely expensive for me00:17
RST38hBut not more expensive than electrics, right?00:18
ShadowJKHowever, if the diesel is only used for heating, and not for propulsion, and if the car seats max 2, I'd pay a twentieth in car tax, and I could legally run the heating unit on "Light Heating Oil", which is essentially diesel, but tax-free and half cost of diesel00:18
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ShadowJKRST38h, annual taxes for owning the car00:19
ShadowJKThere's tax on the purchase price of the car, which you pay when you purchase a new car. There's also an annual tax, which you pay every year that you own a car. The more Co2 your car emits, the more you pay. However, diesels have a different scale to petrol, so diesel is only economical if you drive *alot*, otherwise the annual tax eats up the advantage00:21
ShadowJKa <=2 seat electric in comparison has almost negligible annual tax00:22
HurrianshadowJK, yowch00:22
Hurrianmy new diesel SUV chows down less gas a week than my gas sedan, with the SUV seeing slightly more use per week.00:23
Woody14619shadowjk: smart makes an electric... their 3rd gen is due out in a month or so.00:23
ShadowJKWoody14619, yeah but it's still going to be obscenely expensive00:23
Woody14619I'm on the list to get one....  I have a gas smart now.00:23
Woody14619No..  smart electric starts at $22K00:23
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Woody14619Compaired to the $13K gas start, sure... more expensive, but not >$40K like the Volt.00:24
ShadowJKWeird, volt is 45kE here, I'd expected any outside price to be half of local price :-)00:25
ShadowJK45kE second hand, mind00:25
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ShadowJKwhat kind of range does 22k smart come with? :-)00:25
Woody14619They're saying 90 miles, which is pretty reasonable.00:27
ShadowJKI did calculations on a Subaru miniature delivery van thing, originally lead-acid, the battery pack I'd want to build in it would cost 7000 and get me about that range00:28
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders how to avoid worst case scenario: getting so embarrased of not being able to comply with council duties, to not even contribute to community at all as a simple member00:28
ShadowJKmaybe slightly less range, depending on cruise speed00:29
ShadowJKa boxy van is quite inefficient :/00:29
ShadowJKI wonder what kind of pricing BYD has, I think they're coming to the US soon? Will have to wait here in europe still :/00:30
DocScrutinizer05I heard BYD scored on crash tests like a nail bed00:33
ShadowJKIf they give me moose repellant I'll be fine00:33
ShadowJKOn the subaru minivan I calculated break-even point was 5 years00:35
ShadowJK(relative to petrol consumption of my current car)00:36
ShadowJKThis assumes nothing breaks down on it00:37
DocScrutinizer05and on oil market00:38
Woody14619My look on the smart is I need a second car (our old second is crapping the bed).  So we're looking at two smarts.  $9K delta on a gas vs electric? Break even on that is about 2.5 years where I am, less when you cut out the oil changes and what not.00:38
Woody14619And that was at $3.50/gallon.  We're at close to $4.25 now.00:38
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ShadowJKWith some random BYD, or any american or any french car, or an opel, making 5 years without major welding jobs due to rusting is a bit like winning the lottery :-)00:38
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: haha, count in the battery changes every 5 years00:39
Woody14619So... Really a no brainer.00:39
Woody14619The smart batteries are from Tesla.  Life is supposed to be 8 years to 80%.00:39
DocScrutinizer05supposed? or guaranteed?00:40
Woody14619Even then, the battery replacement is only $4k.00:40
Woody14619I have the same question, waiting on that from the dealership. ;00:40
ShadowJKThe tesla pack is horribly complicated00:41
Woody14619But really... even then... add up the oil changes, plugs, etc..00:41
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ShadowJKAh yeah, US oil changes are about 4X as frequent as EU oil changes?00:41
Woody14619Yes and no.  It's got more control circutry (better load balance), but 95% of that is reusable.00:41
* ShadowJK read somewhere on interwebs that the same engine and same oil have different oil changing intervals in US and EU00:42
Woody14619Yes and no. :)  Smarts are rated to run 10,000 miles between changes.00:42
ShadowJKHm, is it Volt I'm thinking of? The one built out of essentially laptop-sized cells00:42
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DocScrutinizer05I bet that's due to silly way to use cars / operate engines in USA00:43
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, nah, apparently some have oil change at 5000km?00:43
Woody14619Where in EU they call for 20K  (so 12K/13K in miles?)00:44
Woody14619Not a huge difference.00:44
ShadowJKMy current toyota goes 15000 between oil change.. but it leaks a little bit, and it has really small oil capacity... when the oil light comes in, I refill it with like 95% of its capacity in oil? O_000:44
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ShadowJKSo I have to conclude that the engine probably would run without it ;-D00:45
Woody14619Used to have a Geo Storm like that. :)00:45
Woody14619I actually has a Sentra run without oil for almost a month.00:45
Woody14619I put one of those late-night tv specials in, that "bonds" to your engine to reduce friction.00:45
Woody14619Actually worked well apparently.  Quieted the car down. ;)00:46
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Woody14619I took it in because it wouldn't start on cold mornings, turns out, no oil... pan was bone dry. :P00:47
Woody14619The plug apparently got whacked on a nasty pot hole somewhere...00:48
Woody14619Anyway... as fun as this is... I'm off to dinner and gone for the weekend.00:49
ShadowJKBtw, a funny thing about batteries. A123 makes the *best* automotive battery ever, there's just one minor annoyance with it, and one major annoyance. The minor one is that they make them really tiny, so you need a huge amount of them. The major annoyance is that they odn't actually sell them. Luckily, a China factory makes batteries that are half as good (which is twice as good as they need to be), in big formats (I'd beed 25 for the subaru compared to 3000:49
ShadowJK0+ if I used A123), AND they actually sell them, and ship them. Not terribly surprising, A123 kinda went out of business and got acquired for its IP by a chinese company, and production has been dead for months :/00:49
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Woody14619Only about 2 more hours to nominate for Council! :)00:49
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Woody14619K, see you all around! :)00:52
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Sc0rpius_I'm gonna make an application01:41
Sc0rpius_that you say out loud01:41
Sc0rpius_"what time is it?"01:41
Sc0rpius_and your N900 will tell you the current time in your language01:41
Sc0rpius_would you use an app like that?01:41
Sc0rpius_I really need it badly01:41
RiDisn't the siri clone already doing that?01:42
Sc0rpius_fuck really?01:42
RiDsaere or something01:42
Sc0rpius_but you have to press a button or something01:42
Sc0rpius_I want it on all the itme01:42
RiDnope no idea Sc0rpius_ , haven't used my phone for 2 weeks or so01:42
Sc0rpius_I mean listening the mike 24/701:42
RiDbye bye battery01:42
Sc0rpius_yeah :(01:43
Sc0rpius_then I'm gonna make a device just for that using a Raspberry Pi baord or something01:43
RiDwhy would you want something to say the time?01:43
RiDtoo lazy to use a clock?01:43
Sc0rpius_well I'm myope01:44
Sc0rpius_at nights even if I open my eyes I just can't read clocks01:44
Sc0rpius_I have this projection clock01:44
Sc0rpius_it works great the numbers are so big that even I can read them01:44
RiDwhy not a fullsized n900 clock app then?01:44
Sc0rpius_but during the day you can't see the numbers01:44
RiDyou can't see it?01:44
Sc0rpius_it has to be like 1 meter long01:45
Sc0rpius_for me to read it without glasses01:45
Sc0rpius_but my ears work fine!01:45
RiDcan't say the same about me01:45
Sc0rpius_I think there are voice recognition alarm clocks out there01:45
RiDmy problem is in the ears haha01:45
SpeedEvilclearly you need my n900 mod, with the 42" display01:45
RiDsome clocks have a button that says the time01:46
RiDsomeone i knew with *very* serious sight problems (he couldn't see that much even with glasses) used one01:46
RiD"it's - twenty - three - and  - forty - six - minutes!"01:46
Sc0rpius_yeah but if I have to strech out to press a button at nights, then I'm already awake01:47
Sc0rpius_the thing is at 3 am you say out loud "WHAT TIME IS IT????"01:47
Sc0rpius_and the clock will tell you time01:47
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Sc0rpius_and the wife will kick your ass for waking her up01:47
RiDtiny bluetooth / wifi earbud with a button in it01:48
Sc0rpius_and sleep with that??01:50
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RiDif it's tiny enough it wouldn't bother you01:54
RiDbut the easiest solution is to kick your wife out of your bedroom01:55
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ShadowJKI haven't tried it the last 15 years, but voice recog seems "hard" :)02:29
SpeedEvilI want offline voice recognition,02:30
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ShadowJKHowever, re battery, if oyu're sleeping you have your N900 plugged into power, unless you're a moron and an idiot02:32
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Sc0rpius_you must be a heavy user of the N90002:40
Sc0rpius_I just charge it like once a week02:41
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HurrianSc0rpius, you must be a really light user02:47
Hurrian1 week is seriously stretching it02:47
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HurrianWhen I used my N900 everyday, it gets about 3-4 days, with ~5 minutes of calls and ~2 hours of music via earbuds daily02:48
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Hurrian...that's with Smartreflex enabled, Modest disabled, and the device entering C0 a lot during the night.02:52
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Skryi need to sacrifice 8 rats tonight05:11
RST38hSounds like you have got a job to do, why sit here?05:13
RST38hGo, go, get the kitchen knife05:13
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Skrynah, wont need knife, snakes have a feeding day05:15
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iluminator105is there scandit for n900?05:24
Sc0rpius_what's that05:25
iluminator105well it works in symbian it wont be hard tweak to get it to run in n90005:29
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trxis there anything i need to do before using n900's tv out?13:49
trxi connect it to my tv card but all i get is a black screen13:49
trxin the status menu i have Tv Out with Output enabled13:50
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keriotrx: hmm, do you have CSSU installed?14:10
kerioreduce the scaling a bit14:10
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grammoboymy n900 has water damage and someone wants to buy it14:16
grammoboywhat can I do for my private data on the internal memory?14:17
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trxkerio yes14:18
trxi'll try that, thanks14:18
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trxdidn't help :(14:20
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Hurriangrammoboy, can you in any way boot the device up?14:27
Hurrianif not, then you have to repair the device before getting to the internal memory14:27
grammoboyHurrian, it flashes up but doesn't boot14:28
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grammoboyhow hard is it to remove internal memory?14:31
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grammoboyand what is the chance that it is still ok after water damage14:32
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Palitrx, try to change PAL/NTSC15:19
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DocScrutinizer06Pali: though trx has left, I'd like to note that cssu tv-out setting appletacts rather weird after first installation: real settings in effect don't match what's displayed by the applet15:27
DocScrutinizer06grammoboy: there's nothing sensible you can do. Your basic options are reflashing of COMBINED and VANILLA, which most probably won't work, and erasure of flash by hard xray which will probably also kill BT, WLAN, ALS, camera, chargerchip and I dunno which chips also have internal flash for factory calibration or chip 'firmware' that user can't easily reflash15:31
DocScrutinizer06of course you also could desolder the 32GB flash eMMC chip15:32
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kerio#maemo, always providing sensible solutions to common problems15:33
DocScrutinizer06there might be a theoretical opportunity to access and erase eMMC via JTAG even on a non-working system, but that's a really technically demanding task15:34
grammoboyok, thx15:34
grammoboyso don't sell it15:34
grammoboytrust the new owner15:34
grammoboyor trust that the device will not wake up15:34
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DocScrutinizer06or change all you private data you think might be sensible, like email accounts & passwords. Hard to change addr data of friends though, if you think those are privacy sensible. And of course no way to erase all your private p0rn you shot with the camera ;-)15:36
grammoboyit's mostly mail which is stored in the claw mail client15:37
infobotDocScrutinizer06 meant: or change all you private data you think might be critical, like email accounts & passwords. Hard to change addr data of friends though, if you think those are privacy critical. And of course no way to erase all your private p0rn you shot with the camera ...15:37
grammoboyand txt messages15:37
grammoboyI changed the passwrds already15:38
grammoboyhave to think a moment about how sensitive the existing mail in the inboxes are ...15:38
grammoboynot that my life is that interesting though15:38
DocScrutinizer06sensitive, thanks thats the word I've been searching for15:38
DocScrutinizer06generally it's hard to tell what got destructed by water damage, but it's usually nothing terribly fatal15:40
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grammoboyso I might be better off going to a shop for repair?15:40
DocScrutinizer06you're better off first properly drying the device. there are tiny gaps and cavities under the chips resp nbetween board and chip, where water can stay for months without proper cleaning & drying procedure15:41
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grammoboyI've put it in rise for several days15:42
DocScrutinizer06open up all cans. rinse mainboard with pure ethanol (98%) several times, use pressurized air to blow out liquid from all corners. Then dry at ~60°C for at least a week15:43
DocScrutinizer06rice is utter nonsense15:43
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grammoboyI think it's not15:44
grammoboyor it is a good placebo15:44
DocScrutinizer06your rice been in contact with open air for months (you don't store rice in vacuum packing). During that time it adsorbed all the humidity it can take15:45
grammoboy60°C for a week? hey man I live in the netherlands15:45
DocScrutinizer06honestly, rice is bullshit15:45
DocScrutinizer06probably from the observation that a few grains of rice in salt dispenser stop the salt from building chunks15:46
DocScrutinizer06that's an entirely different effect though, unrelated to humidity first place15:47
grammoboyhow do you dry at 60 degrees?15:47
DocScrutinizer06I usually place the device at air outlet of my laptop or server box ;-)15:47
DocScrutinizer06or just place it on top of your room heating15:48
DocScrutinizer06if that's the most common type of heater units with hot water inside15:49
grammoboycans = screws?15:50
DocScrutinizer06no, the lids of those small steel cans on the PCB15:50
DocScrutinizer06they're nasty to remove, since they have several dozen latches holding them down all around the perimeter15:51
DocScrutinizer06you carefully open them by prying up notch after notch with a pinpoint small knife or detist pin tool, going around the perimeter several times. will take like 10min per lid, where first 5 minutes you think it will never come off15:53
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DocScrutinizer06anyway opening the cans is mandatory with water damage, since you can't clean the inside of those cans any other way15:55
grammoboyhow much is the chance that it succeeds15:57
grammoboyit can have a short circuit15:57
DocScrutinizer06hard to say15:57
DocScrutinizer06did you immediately remove battery after water incident?15:57
grammoboybut restarted15:58
grammoboyit too early15:58
grammoboythen it became worse15:58
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grammoboyat first there was only small disfuntioning15:58
grammoboyafter I tried to recharge it, it didn't boot again15:58
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kerioDocScrutinizer06: what about vacuum-packed rice?15:58
kerio(semi-serious question)15:59
DocScrutinizer06electrolytic deterrioration of traces and shorts is most severe threat15:59
grammoboyhow can I make sure that the internal memory gets destroyed ? :)16:00
DocScrutinizer06kerio: rice has no special hygroscopic / hydrophile properties. Use Silka Gel or other dedicated humidity remover substance16:00
grammoboylook at the problem from an other side :)16:00
kerioDocScrutinizer06: k16:00
DocScrutinizer06grammoboy: desolder, or electrocute16:01
grammoboyDocScrutinizer06, howto electrocute?16:01
DocScrutinizer06or overheat, maybe actually a good way16:01
grammoboyput it in the oven?16:02
DocScrutinizer06wel, proper overheating will desolder the chip anyway ;-P16:02
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DocScrutinizer06grammoboy: I don't see the purpose of all that. Since nobody will pay reasonable amount of $currency for a mainboard with destroyed eMMC chip16:04
DocScrutinizer06plus other unknown defects caused by water damage16:04
grammoboyI've a bid of 30 euro already16:05
DocScrutinizer06if somebody wants to pay a few bucks for a N900 board with a water defect, then only since he hopes to repair ir16:05
grammoboyhe wants to use parts of it16:05
grammoboyand he hopes to repair it probably first16:06
DocScrutinizer06adding damage to the board that's beyond the already published/announced water damage is incorrect business and will defeat the purpose the buyer got that board for16:06
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grammoboythat's true16:07
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grammoboyok, I'll think about what is wise here16:08
DocScrutinizer06so either remove the board completely and sell the rest for spare parts, or drill a hole thru eMMC chip or simply pry it off the poard by brute force, and announce the board got damaged mechanically16:08
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infobotDocScrutinizer06 meant: so either remove the board completely and sell the rest for spare parts, or drill a hole thru eMMC chip or simply pry it off the board by brute force, and announce the board got damaged mechanically16:09
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DocScrutinizer06both will require you disassembling the N900 and do quite some work, which is not worth it regarding the maybe maqx 50bucks you could get16:10
DocScrutinizer06(and I honestly doubt somebody will pay 50 bucks for such a 'device')16:11
DocScrutinizer06if you already disassemble the device, you're better off trying to 'repair' it by proper cleaning&drying procedure16:13
grammoboyhow do you put the ethanol on  it?16:14
DocScrutinizer06I.E rinse with tap water thoroughly to remove any possible metaloxides from electrolytic damage during battery inserted, then with destilled water, then with ethanol. clean with pressurized air after each rinse16:15
kerioDocScrutinizer06: hm, wouldn't it be better to avoid tap water altogether?16:15
DocScrutinizer06I usually use a cleaned plastic spray can from glass cleaner16:15
DocScrutinizer06kerio: it's available in large quatities and with proper pressure to get a forceful jet of water16:16
keriooh ok16:17
kerioit's just that you can't get a lot of distilled water16:17
DocScrutinizer06you rinse out any metaloxide and other dirt by giving the PCB a proper shower16:17
DocScrutinizer06of maybe 5 minutes16:17
DocScrutinizer06with several breaks for pressurized air16:18
DocScrutinizer06then rinse with distilled water 2 or 3 times, using maybe 1l16:18
DocScrutinizer06then 2 or 3 rinses with ethanol16:18
DocScrutinizer06the idea being that the ethanol is hygroscopic and easily delutes the water remnants16:19
DocScrutinizer06(you also could use metanol or isopropyl, if it's 98%+ )16:20
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DocScrutinizer06grammoboy: ((how do you put the ethanol on  it?)) iirc there's also one electrical cabinet and board cleanser from KontaktChemie that's mainly pure alcohol16:23
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DocScrutinizer06alcohol cleanser:
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RST38hDoc: Drinkable? =)16:41
DocScrutinizer06if you want to do something more aggressive about possible metaloxides from electrolysis (they may short balls under chip), use kontakt60 and then rinse with Kontakt-WL16:42
DocScrutinizer06and use pressurized air extensively, Kontakt360 if you don't have compressor and air gun16:43
DocScrutinizer06RST38h: no ethanol, so probably not what you like to digest16:44
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RST38hDoc: higher spirits are also drinkable16:49
RST38hDoc: apparently not as enjoyable though =)16:49
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grammoboythx guys ciao16:50
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DocScrutinizer06[council elections] I request adding a virtual nobody as electable option to the ballot. So despite we might have maybe 6 (or 42) candidates, everybody can vote for limiting council to maybe 2 members by putting "nobody" on position 3 of his ballot. Counting votes for candidates would stop then as soon as "nobody" was the next elected candidate. If all voters put "nobody" on position #1, then "nobody" was first elected member of council17:13
DocScrutinizer06and thus council basically disestablished by community17:13
DocScrutinizer06I think it's not "fair" or really democratic to not offer an opportunity to vote *against* the whole thing. As it's now we only have the option to (partially) not vote at all, giving some or all of our 5 votes to oblivion17:16
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DocScrutinizer06so as it's now there could be17:17
DocScrutinizer06so as it's now there could get council members legitly elected by 1% of interested voters while 99% preferring to NOT see this candidate in council have no voice17:18
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kerioi love how DocScrutinizer06 is desperately looking for ways not to be elected17:19
DocScrutinizer06kerio: I suggested exactly this thing for last elections already17:19
kerioanyway, why do we need a council and a board?17:19
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DocScrutinizer06since it's obvious that - when there are lesser candidates than positions - now there's no sense in vote at all, while maybe 100% of those eligible to vote would prefer no council to a council with exactly those candidates17:20
DocScrutinizer06kerio: a very good question17:21
DocScrutinizer06(prefer no council) or, more real life related, maybe community would prefer a council with only 4 members over one with that particular candidate as 5th member. Recently there's no way to express this notion in your vote17:22
keriocan you vote for the same dudes in council and board?17:23
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DocScrutinizer06and reading backlog of [community] ML I found some mails that read to me like self-nominations (though not very loud and clear). E.G I'd consider woody as already having nominated himself for council as well17:25
DocScrutinizer06Luke-Jr as well17:25
DocScrutinizer06misterC maybe too17:25
Luke-Jr[14:19:04] <kerio> i love how DocScrutinizer06 is desperately looking for ways not to be elected17:26
DocScrutinizer06well, council nomination period got automatically extended by one month this night already, so I hope there will step up some more candidates17:26
DocScrutinizer06and I think one of the more reasonable tasks of next council was to redefine own foundation definition and resulting duties, and ask community about what they think about all that. Maybe council will self-disestablish, or redefine own rationale, or just unify with board/foundation, or whatever17:30
DocScrutinizer06since as it stands now, the #1 purpose of council ceases to exist: >>The Council's mission is to "represent the Maemo community's best interests, and to act as a community conduit for Nokia-generated information."<<17:31
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DocScrutinizer06when Nokia is no more relevant for $maemo, so how's council as a embassador between community and Nokia?17:33
teotwaki__Usually, not having enough people to stand up for community council elections means there's not much of a community to represent anymore.17:33
DocScrutinizer06quite possible17:33
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teotwaki__If there's one thing that communities attract, it's ego-centric idiots. Ego-centric idiots love fame, so they stand for community council (doesn't mean they get elected). No ego-centric idiots offering themselves up ==> no community to attract them.17:34
kerioteotwaki__: well, hildon foundation has got some people17:34
DocScrutinizer06at least I guess a lot of those who define themselves as "maemo community members" now, they just don't see the use of any council representing them17:34
narcosI'm trying to test if two processes are both running, but can't seem to get the bash AND operation to work, any ideas? :17:35
narcosif [[ ps a | grep -v grep | grep -q process1 && ps a | grep -v grep | grep -q process2 ]]; then echo yes; fi17:35
DocScrutinizer06the unexpressibly unfortunate device award mess also didn't help to increase reputation of council entity in community's point of view17:37
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teotwaki__narcos: if [ `ps a | grep -v grep | grep -c process1` gt 0 ] && [ `ps a | grep -v grep | grep -c process2` gt 0 ]; then echo yes; fi17:38
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narcosteotwaki__: "[: gt: binary operator expected"17:40
DocScrutinizer06man 2 kill >> If sig is 0, then no signal is sent, but error checking is still performed; this can be used to check for the existence of a process ID or  process  group       ID.<<17:40
teotwaki__DocScrutinizer06: pidof ftw17:41
DocScrutinizer06:nod:  that too17:41
DocScrutinizer06pidof $process >/dev/null17:42
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DocScrutinizer06if pidof process1 >/dev/null && pidof process2 >/dev/null; then17:43
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teotwaki__narcos: there's this, also: pidof foobar > /dev/null; process_count=$?; pidof otherbar > /dev/null; process_count=`expr $process_count + $?`; if [ $process_count eq 2 ] ; then echo yes; fi17:44
DocScrutinizer06alas "pidof program [program...]" does OR, not AND17:44
narcosAhhh I didn't know about those options, cool17:45
teotwaki__DocScrutinizer06: actually, it does17:45
teotwaki__pidof bar foo | wc -w17:45
narcosHowever, I'm actually looking for the presence of a python script that's running - so I don't think this will work? I look for "ps a | grep python | grep -v grep | grep"17:46
teotwaki__you don't need grep -v grep17:47
teotwaki__or maybe you do, I don't remember17:47
DocScrutinizer06sorry that's not really failsafe. Since you can invoke python scripts directly, just like shellscripts. Given you got the right shebang17:47
DocScrutinizer06narcos: ^^^17:48
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narcosYeah, true. But the python script should only ever be called from a bash script that launches it17:48
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DocScrutinizer06and if you're really going to use grep, then you should exploit REGEX for pattern17:49
DocScrutinizer06not pipe from one grep to next to next17:49
narcosBasically, I have a bash script which amongst other things launches some python scripts. When the bash script runs  I want to output whether the python scripts were successfully executed.17:49
DocScrutinizer06err, executed? then check for $? of each one17:50
DocScrutinizer06I guess you don't mean "executed" but rather "started"17:50
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DocScrutinizer06narcos: btw ((I look for "ps a | grep p...)) note that maemo standard messybox ps doesn't take any parameters really17:52
narcosDocScrutinizer06: Actually that is how I'm currently doing it, checking for $? - but I also want to make sure other 'stale' instances don't exist17:52
DocScrutinizer06killall? ;-D17:53
teotwaki__pkill -f ftw17:53
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narcosActually yeah, I think I'll pull in some aggressive killing17:54
DocScrutinizer06killall even returns if there's been any process to kill17:54
DocScrutinizer06so you can emit proper warning msg in your script17:54
narcosI don't want to 'killall python' though?17:54
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narcosfor i in `ps a | grep 'python' | grep  'prog1\|' | grep -v grep| cut -d " " -f 2`; do kill -9 $i &> /dev/null; done17:55
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DocScrutinizer06killall "full process name" && echo "WARNING! stale process detected and killed" >&217:55
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narcosDocScrutinizer06: Nice17:57
gena2xHi all. Seem i have really slow write speed to my sd card inside n900. It takes 40 second to write 100 mb with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk bs=1M count=100. is this normal?17:57
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gena2xthat's a 2.5Mb/S which doesn't sound good17:58
keriogena2x: echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests17:58
gena2xholy ....17:59
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gena2x40s -> 8s18:00
gena2xany link for more info?18:00
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gena2xand thank you much btw18:00
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Sicelokerio: btw, is that permanent?18:02
kerioSicelo: i have right at the end of my /etc/init.d/rcS18:03
Siceloah, i see Maemo has  sysctl18:03
Sicelothanks for those :)18:04
gena2xkerio, unsure if this actually helps18:04
kerioit does18:04
gena2xkerio, just increase some buffers18:04
gena2xi pushed count=100018:04
kerioer, it doesn't18:04
gena2xand it turned to be 4m1s18:04
kerioSicelo: you need procps installed for /etc/sysctl.conf to work18:04
freemangordongena2x: try swappolube, it has settings to play with io scheduler18:05
gena2xfreemangordon, but what's actually wrong?18:05
freemangordonwhich one is wrong?18:05
gena2xfreemangordon, with write speed i mean18:05
keriogena2x: a high nr_requests allows for I/O to be put in order before being executed18:06
DocScrutinizer06you lost me like 3 min ago18:06
kerioI/O sucks for random writes18:06
gena2xkerio, then i am doing dd i am doing perfectly sequental writes18:06
DocScrutinizer06modulo swap ;-P18:06
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freemangordonaah, yes, DocScrutinizer06 has a point here :D18:07
gena2xDocScrutinizer06, hi my old fellow hater18:07
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freemangordonsometimes I forget the stock maemo has swap on eMMC18:07
DocScrutinizer06gena2x: hi! sorry for mistaking your name 3 years ago18:08
gena2xDocScrutinizer06: 1 year! =)18:08
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gena2xfreemangordon: took a look to swappolube, i'm fine with command-line interface18:10
gena2xbut why in hell sd write speed is 2.5MiB/s? if this only for me or everyone has such speeds?18:11
freemangordongena2x: those are my settings
freemangordonhave in mind my swap is on uSD18:12
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gena2xsetting are settings, but what's your write speed?18:13
freemangordoncould you paste your script again?18:14
freemangordondd one18:14
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gena2xi just can't install debian because process of installing base system takes more that a day18:14
gena2xif=/dev/zero of=file bs=1M count=10018:15
gena2xtime dd if=/dev/zero of=file bs=1M count=10018:15
Sicelodidn't for me, although i did it a long while back18:15
Sicelodebian base system, i mean...18:15
gena2xdon't use my old cmdline it would destroy data on /dev/mmcblk118:16
DocScrutinizer06it's all about free memory and swap usage18:16
freemangordonhmm, fs plays role too18:16
kerio7,9 MB/s here18:16
gena2xhere, i have 1min on fs and 40 second without18:16
gena2xkerio, do you use some custom settings?18:16
DocScrutinizer06base limit on eMMC write is like 12MB/s18:16
freemangordonreal    0m 17.45s sys     0m 2.02s18:17
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gena2xfreemangordon: can you run once again with count=200 please?18:18
freemangordonbut that is in /home/user/MyDocs/tmp18:18
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freemangordoni.e. vfat18:18
DocScrutinizer06yeah LOL, rather ambiguous testbed18:19
gena2xthis is to eliminate effect of caches18:19
Sicelogena2x: getting debian's base system up needs all this?18:19
freemangordon0m 45.89s , 4.36 MB/s18:20
DocScrutinizer06please s^file^/path/to/file^18:20
freemangordonwill try that in /opt18:20
gena2xSicelo, i really tried to install it. twice. but i can't, because seems each subsequental write request take longer and longer18:20
freemangordongena2x: use my settings18:21
kerioyep, you need a bigger nr_requests18:21
keriofreemangordon: 512? :c18:21
gena2xso i decided to investigate what's going on18:21
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freemangordonkerio: you should account for responsiveness too ;)18:21
DocScrutinizer06bs=100M count=118:21
keriosaving 32kb of ram won't help responsiveness18:22
kerioor something18:22
DocScrutinizer06bs=100k count=100018:22
kerio(it's probably a lot more, but ok)18:22
freemangordonin /opt real    0m 36.86s, 5.42 MB/s18:22
gena2xnot good actually18:23
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freemangordonkerio: it is not because of the RAM, I used transmission for stresstest to find the optimal settings :D18:24
freemangordonhigher nr_requests will result in higher io rate, but UI will stutter18:24
gena2xand it doesn't answer question why sequental write is so slow18:25
DocScrutinizer06gena2x: the 7th time, consider swap!18:25
freemangordongena2x: as it is not sequental18:25
gena2xDocScrutinizer06, how dd related to swap?18:25
gena2xfreemangordon, write with dd is not sequental? why?18:25
freemangordongena2x: fs , that is why18:26
DocScrutinizer06how is any arbitrary binary execution related to swap?18:26
gena2xfreemangordon, i observe same result with writing directly to device18:26
freemangordonwhich device?18:26
freemangordonisn't that uSD?18:27
gena2xit is18:27
freemangordonwell, by a faster one18:27
freemangordonI was not kidding18:28
DocScrutinizer06each IO in queue has a buffer of the data to write. In RAM. To make more space for buffers, the OS swaps out stuff. This creates more IO to complete18:28
keriogena2x: i thought we were talking about the eMMC18:28
keriomost uSDs, especially non-sandisk ones, suck balls18:28
freemangordonyeah, me too18:28
gena2xmy question is it a limit of usd or controller18:28
freemangordongena2x: no limit there, will give you the result for my 16G class 10 sandisk in several seconds18:29
gena2xfreemangordon, cool would be excellent! do 200mb write please18:29
gena2xDocScrutinizer06, i got your idea. but i am usure that things are really work in this way. it's easy to check - just need to turn swap off18:30
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freemangordonreal    0m 24.24s, 8.25 MB/s18:30
pozicHow do I connect to a hidden wifi network?18:31
pozicThe stupid GUI interface doesn't allow me to configure that.18:31
DocScrutinizer06sure it does18:31
freemangordongena2x: have in mind my swap is on the same device18:31
keriopozic: if any hidden wifi network is detected, you get a "hidden wifi" button and then you can input the SSID18:31
APTXpozic: add it manually in settings18:31
freemangordonpozic: using the stupid UI, manually enter network id18:31
keriopozic: or you can add it manually, and then it'll always appear18:31
gena2xok, i turned off swap with swapoff -a18:32
keriohmm, this was a bit underwhelming18:32
freemangordongena2x: nooo18:32
pozicAPTX: I only get in this 'wizard'.18:32
kerio2gb in vfat, 3,3 MB/s18:32
pozicAPTX: which doesn't support it.18:32
freemangordongena2x: you'll have OOM reboot18:32
gena2xfreemangordon, done and i'm fine18:32
freemangordonok, if you say so18:32
pozicOk, I got it.18:32
gena2x256MiB is really enough18:33
APTXpozic: doesn't support what?18:33
DocScrutinizer06pozic: otoh hidden network is generally deprecated since it *reduces* safety18:33
gena2xseem i still have like 15MiB free memory18:33
gena2xacc to top18:33
pozicDocScrutinizer06: it does? How?18:33
DocScrutinizer06pozic: so if you want to connect to that hidden SSID, I assume you have control over the AP. So it's up to you to change that unfortunate setting18:34
pozicDocScrutinizer06: I have control over it, yes.18:34
freemangordongena2x: which reminds me... that we can use swappless maemo to check the benefits of -thumb18:34
pozicDocScrutinizer06: it just doesn't make sense that it would be less secure because of that.18:34
DocScrutinizer06pozic: it makes your devices axpose more info about their configuration AFAIK18:34
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gena2xok. 3.3, but that should be real speed of this usd card18:35
pozicDocScrutinizer06: which wireless standards does the n900 support?18:35
gena2xlet's get my usd out and write to it via adapter on PC18:35
freemangordonis it some adata?18:35
APTXpozic: it's less secure because some fake AP can claim is your AP18:35
DocScrutinizer06pozic: 802.11b/g iirc18:35
pozicDocScrutinizer06: i.e., b/g/n pick the highest.18:35
freemangordongena2x: what is the brand?18:35
freemangordonooo, that is crap18:36
freemangordonget a good class 4 sandisk18:36
gena2xi am ready to go and buy anything else if that would make my sd work really faster18:36
gena2xi just want to be sure that this would help18:37
pozicAnd how do I select WPA2 as the security method?18:37
DocScrutinizer06pozic: also your device will try to associate to alien "hidden" AP, thus exposing all the stuff you wanna keep secret to those18:37
freemangordongena2x: sequental writes does not matter really18:37
pozicThere is only NONE, WEP, WPA pre-shared key and WPA with EAP18:37
freemangordonponyofdeath: WPA pre-shared18:38
freemangordonpozic: ^^^18:38
DocScrutinizer06I'm not even sure N900 supports WPA2, but that might be just me18:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: this is what I use at home18:38
APTXit does18:38
pozicfreemangordon: I don't know whether my router supports WPA pre-shared.18:38
APTXit does18:39
freemangordon<pozic> There is only NONE, WEP, WPA pre-shared key and WPA with EAP18:39
APTXit's the basic method18:39
kerioDocScrutinizer06: it does, and you should use wpa2psk only18:39
DocScrutinizer06I know18:39
pozicfreemangordon: those are the choices that the phone offers...18:39
APTXnote that some routers call wpa2 wpa18:39
pozicfreemangordon: not the router.18:39
pozicThe router did not display any preshared keys.18:39
freemangordonpozic: are you sure it is setup correctly?18:39
DocScrutinizer06obviously it isn't18:40
pozicfreemangordon: yes, because it works.18:40
DocScrutinizer06though I thought N900 definitely has problems with WPS18:40
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pozicLet me be clear: the phone does not connect currently.18:40
Siceloworked fine with WPS on mine18:40
freemangordonnever ever enable/use WPS18:40
pozicI would like it to use WPA2.18:41
DocScrutinizer06yeah, WPS is straight from hell18:41
pozicWhat's so special about WPA2?18:41
APTXit's secure18:41
pozicDoes it require a special chip?18:41
pozicI.e. why doesn't the N900 support it?18:41
APTXit dpoes support it18:41
pozicWPA2 was released at N900 release time.18:41
freemangordonpozic: n900 supports it18:41
pozicAPTX: there is no option to select it.18:42
pozicAPTX: i.e. no 'WPA2'.18:42
freemangordonpozic: select WPA18:42
APTXI said it's sometimes called wpa without the 218:42
pozicfreemangordon: there is WPA with preshared key.18:42
pozicfreemangordon: there is no WPA18:42
DocScrutinizer06pozic: generally it's the AP that decides what to use18:42
APTXit uses wpa218:42
freemangordonpozic: but you don;t know the keys?18:42
pozicfreemangordon: I have one key.18:43
pozicfreemangordon: but it's not a PSK18:43
freemangordonon your own AP? come on18:43
freemangordonwhat is it then?18:43
APTXwpa with eap is the pki method18:43
pozicfreemangordon: it's a WPA2 password.18:44
keriothere's a way to force the n900 to only use wpa218:44
kerioand most routers have a way to require wpa218:44
pozickerio: continue please18:44
gena2xok, i am an idiot, i had to do PC test of my sd card before asking anyone for help =) on PC, it has same speed18:44
keriopozic: it's just a checkbox in the connection settings iirc18:44
gena2xthanks everyone for help.18:44
DocScrutinizer06gena2x: lol18:44
gena2xi gone to buy new one =)18:44
keriogena2x: buy a sandisk18:45
freemangordonpozic: and you should be able to read the damn password. that password is your pre-shared key18:45
kerioan original sandisk18:45
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freemangordongena2x: don't buy anything but sandisk18:45
keriopozic: yep, advanced settings->other->wpa2 only18:45
Sicelopozic: it's on Advanced settings18:45
freemangordonis it system wide or connection specific?18:46
APTXpozic: it's called pre shared key because you have to know the password in advance to be able to connect18:46
gena2xfreemangordon: yeah, seems reviews fully support this statement. so gone to buy sandisk =)18:46
keriofreemangordon: connection specific18:46
pozicWhy didn't they just call all of their security methods something like <year of release>-<letter>?18:48
keriobecause that would be retarded18:48
pozicThat would have been a lot easier than WPA, WPA2, WPA2-personal, WPA2-enterprise.18:48
pozicEveryone uses different human readable names to 'help' the user.18:49
pozicI find it confusing as hell.18:49
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freemangordonpozic: when did you buy your n900?18:49
pozicfreemangordon: a year ago or so.18:49
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pozicOk, it seems to have worked.18:53
pozicIn an effort to make things 'easy to use' things actually have been made worse, imho.18:54
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keriohold on, so you configured your router without knowing what the options meant?18:54
APTXsounds liek a typical user to me :318:55
pozickerio: my router doesn't use PSK terminology.18:55
pozickerio: or well, it does.18:55
pozickerio: but it only does that when I select another option, which I think it disabled.18:55
pozickerio: there is a radio button interface.18:55
pozickerio: as such, UI standards say that means those are exclusive choices.18:56
pozickerio: if they fucked that up, how am I supposed to know what the device actually does?18:56
pozickerio: it seems to have accepted the password as the PSK.18:56
kerioer, .com18:56
pozickerio: I read the manual.18:56
keriothat's also a good option, yes18:56
pozickerio: they do not document these kinds of things.18:57
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pozickerio: as such, IMHO a user should not be expected to know this.18:57
kerioa user is also not supposed to set up a network18:57
freemangordonthen by no more routers made by "them"18:57
pozicfreemangordon: this is already a good brand.18:57
keriopozic: which brand is it?18:57
pozickerio: Netgear18:58
pozickerio: what else do you want? Cisco?>18:58
pozickerio: I don't have 10000 employees here.18:58
pozickerio: I can install DD-WRT on it.18:58 do it18:58
pozickerio: as such, I can essentially do anything with it.18:59
pozickerio: conclusion: it's not a bad device.18:59
keriodd-wrt still expects you to kinda know stuff18:59
pozickerio: and I do.18:59
keriosure, you do now ;)18:59
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pozickerio: I know what I wanted. It's just that the interfaces, both on the Nokia and on the router suck in combination with eachother.18:59
pozickerio: they should sit together some day and talk to eachother.19:00
pozickerio: there is no chance in hell that a mortal user would be able to connect without brute forcing the GUI.19:00
pozic(i.e. try all options in a semi-intelligent way, until it connects)19:00
pozicAlso, I am not the only one who has asked this question.19:01
pozicLook on tmo.19:01
pozicThat should give a clue to UI designers that they as a collective have failed.19:01
keriodouble LOL19:01
pozicIt might be that the Nokia people did their best given the current constraints.19:02
keriobut yeah, i suppose that "consumer" stuff calls it wpa-personal19:02
DocScrutinizer06((<kerio> dd-wrt still expects you to kinda know stuff))
pozicBut still, as a whole failure was created.19:02
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DocScrutinizer06as a whole, you created failure by hiding SSID19:03
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DocScrutinizer06connecting to a named network usually is a painless process on N90019:03
DocScrutinizer06since device autodetects encryption set up on your AP19:04
DocScrutinizer06so you don't need to know anything19:04
DocScrutinizer06*on N900*19:04
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DocScrutinizer06you _definitely_ should know what you're doing when you set up your AP though19:05
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DocScrutinizer06and, as already mentioned, hidden SSID is generally deprecated. Though some router/AP manufs still recommend it in their manuals and/or GUI19:06
DocScrutinizer06pozic: if you bother to read , you'll get an idea about the different setting options19:08
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DocScrutinizer06only thing it doesn't cover is the (as well deprecated) WPS or whatever the name - seems every router manufacturer names it differently, it's that "push this button on yozr router to associate to random devices" bullshit19:09
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DocScrutinizer06WiFi Protected Setup19:10
merlin1991gotta love rave, or how was the utility called?19:10
kerioDocScrutinizer06: and also a way to crack your wifi network in 4 hours at most19:10
freemangordonmerlin1991: ^^^ :)19:11
merlin1991well something with r e v and a in the name ;)19:12
kerioit's an 8-digit pin, but you can crack the first four digits separately, because the engineers who thought about it knew nothing about security19:12
kerioor something19:12
freemangordonand the last digit is a checksum :D:D:D19:13
freemangordonso at most 9999 + 999 tries you have it19:14
keriowell, 10000 + 100019:14
freemangordonaah, yes, 0000 000 is valid too19:14
DocScrutinizer06is it?19:14
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freemangordonnothinf gorbids it AFAIK19:14
merlin1991well the biggest problem is, that the current generation of cheapo aps has no flood control for the wps "login"19:14
DocScrutinizer06fsck the crap19:15
freemangordonand noone bothers to fix the firmware19:15
DocScrutinizer06any luser using it deserves it19:15
merlin1991kinda reminds me of the time where quake3 rcon had no flood control, take over any server in 5 to 24 hours :P19:15
freemangordonthough my cheapo TPLINK has an option to enable it (it is disabled by default ;) )19:16
merlin1991DocScrutinizer06: well for example on the router of my friend it's not even possible to turn it off19:16
merlin1991and then there's the thing that the router resets itself to factory defaults every now and then, ...19:16
freemangordonBTW who made that WPS crap?19:16
keriofreemangordon: mikrotik or gtfo19:16
DocScrutinizer06so we're almost back to happy WEP times, where you could crack every single one of the 20% encrypted AP you find out there?19:17
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: AFAIK WPS is even worse19:17
freemangordonfow WEP you need some CPU power19:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer06: oh, and most crappy routers crash if you try too many pins too quickly19:18
freemangordonassuming you have a good signal strength, n900 cracks WPS in a matter of hours19:18
merlin1991well tbh the worst thing in widespread use currently regarding wireless is the average *billed wifi* in hotest, not encrypted and routing based on users mac address19:18
DocScrutinizer06haha, thats not a bug, that's a security feature19:18
infobotmerlin1991 meant: well tbh the worst thing in widespread use currently regarding wireless is the average *billed wifi* in hotels, not encrypted and routing based on users mac address19:19
freemangordonyeah, funny19:19
freemangordonas if you can't kick someone from the network :D19:19
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freemangordons/from/out of/19:19
DocScrutinizer06merlin1991: a lot of those are so poorly set up that you easily can avoid the proxy, or just stay on login AP19:19
infobotfreemangordon meant: as if you can't kick someone out of the network :D19:19
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freemangordonthough here ususally hotel routers are set up to use WPA-psk and are free, you anly need to ask for the password at no additional charge19:21
DocScrutinizer06but best thing on hotels is the "use this AP, it's our free internet offer" exploit, which has revealed several company secrets already X-P19:21
freemangordonwow, gcc-linaro toolchain is built19:21
merlin1991well it's just plain stupid to use an unencrypted, or wpa-personal encrypted ap for sensitive stuff without a vpn19:22
freemangordonnow I only need to find a way to tweak it to be usable in SB :D:D:D19:22
DocScrutinizer06well, tell that the big bosses of IBM et al19:22
merlin1991I love the fake "security" of wpa psk encrypted hotspots :D19:23
merlin1991your traffic is encrypted! (but we do not tell you that anyone in posession of the passphrase can decrypt it)19:23
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DocScrutinizer06or even route it to his own proxy AP19:24
DocScrutinizer06for deep SPI19:24
DocScrutinizer06and proper filtering/tweaking/MIM attacks19:25
merlin1991btw any madness on mailinglist, or can I feel save opening my mail client?19:25
merlin1991limited connection here, and with all the council / board / whatnot going on there could be quite some spam19:26
DocScrutinizer06I don't think there's extraordinary insanity going on ATM19:26
DocScrutinizer06actually I'm worried about [community] has not a single mail today yet19:27
DocScrutinizer06this might count as madness too ;-)19:27
DocScrutinizer06lol, it seems atm I'm the only fresh candidate for elections19:30
DocScrutinizer06everybody else is or has been council before19:30
DocScrutinizer06GeneralAntilles: POKE19:31
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kerioDocScrutinizer05 will be our enlightened despot!19:32
DocScrutinizer05NO I WONT >:-(19:33
kerioHEIL JOERG o/19:33
freemangordonI am leaving :D:D:D19:33
* DocScrutinizer05 too19:33
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keriopff, don't be silly19:34
kerioyou can check out anytime you like, but you can never leeeeeeeeeeeeave19:34
keriohm, how do i repartition my eMMC in a sensible way?19:40
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keriowithout losing the stuff in mydocs, for instance :)19:40
* kerio ponders about removing the swap partition19:41
Gh0stywith a hammer am shizzle? :p19:41
Gh0stywhat no swap?19:41
kerioGh0sty: sd19:41
Gh0stythe device already lacks memory ... you are going to remove swap? :o19:41
Gh0styyes so moving to an even slower device looks like a sane plan? :p19:41
Sicelokerio: i used wiki.. usb mass storage option in BackupMenu is very handy for that19:42
kerioGh0sty: no, that's not the problem19:42
kerioi'm already using swap on the uSD19:42
kerioand yes, it makes things faster19:42
keriobecause you don't constantly have multiple things reading/writing the emmc19:42
keriomeh, let's wreck my n90019:43
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keriohmm, i just realized that i don't have mkfs.ext3 on os x19:44
Sicelomaking a new partiton? for what?19:47
kerioSicelo: i want to embiggen homefs19:48
kerioi don't have the e2fsprogs19:48
kerioand i can't login from backupmenu19:48
keriobecause it wants to run /bin/bash, and it's not there in its chroot jail19:49
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kerioSicelo: and anyway, i would just make a new partition and then use BM to restore the data19:50
keriohmm, actually i don't even have to do that19:50
Siceloi don't see why you need a new  partition.. don't you need to reduce on of those currently existing (MyDocs), then enlarge /home ?19:52 the hell am i supposed to enlarge /home?19:52
keriomake the partition bigger, and then make a new fs19:52
kerioor extend it with resize2fs19:52
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Sicelonew fs is unnecessary, aiui.. that's what will lose data. i didn't lose anything when i enlarged my /home to 8GB19:54
keriobecause you resized the partition19:54
Sicelowell, i did create a new fs as well, but that was for playing with debian19:55
keriofile systems don't work by magic19:55
keriohmm, os x *can* resize vfat partitions...19:55
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keriohrmpf, it can't, for some stupid reason19:59
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keriooh god what D:20:04
* kerio shakes his fist at robbiethe1st20:04
keriothe clock is borked20:04
kerioand now i have no homefs20:04
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merlin1991kerio: messing your partitions ftw20:07
Sicelorobbie's tool worked well for me. nothing unexpected happened20:08
keriothis is fun :D20:11
kerioyeah but my clock got borked20:11
keriobecause my twl is still in somewhat of a fscked-up state20:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, n900-full-reset doesn't seem to work properly20:11
* kerio shakes his fist at Pali20:11
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keriohehe, i have 19700101-0001-rootfs.tar and 19700101-0001-optfs.tar20:13
DocScrutinizer05kerio: when clock gets reset this indicates a full reset of TWL4030 happened20:13
* kerio shakes his fist in reverse at Pali20:14
DocScrutinizer05any further mystery probably caused by NOLO or kernel20:14
kerioanyway, robbiethe1st should really fix this couple of bugs in BM20:14
keriois there a bug tracker?20:14
DocScrutinizer05I've seen one in Taipei lately20:15
DocScrutinizer05he had a long black beard20:15
kerioanyway, to fix the "timestamp in the future" problem, i used bootmenu's usb networking shell to set the date correctly20:16
kerioalso, the n900 is really unstable when on a desk, without the otterbox :s20:17
keriopushing on the keyboard makes it sway on a side20:17
DocScrutinizer05that's not exactly new20:18
kerioyeah but i only noticed it now20:18
DocScrutinizer05I kinda criticised that ID flaw on day one of my first N90020:18
keriobecause i had to remove the battery, and thus the otterbox20:18
kerioalso, i have an otterbox20:19
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: did you know i have an otterbox?20:19
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DocScrutinizer05yeah I heard you breed those rodents20:20
keriohmm, i wonder which timezone i set the date on20:20
kerioyay, the correct one20:21
DocScrutinizer05kerio: didn't you set some CAL options lately, like force-poweron or whatever?20:22
DocScrutinizer05meh, I really have to run20:23
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keriosee? you can't leave #maemo ;)20:23
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keriocan someone paste the output of "grep swapon /etc/event.d/rcS-late" please?20:26
keriosomeone with an unmodified rcS-late20:26
NIN101can't paste it(have a modified one) but from my head it was just swapon -a20:26
Sicelo      /sbin/swapon -a || echo "Failed to enable paging partition."20:27
kerioSicelo: ty20:27
kerioi still can't figure out how /dev/mmcblk1p2 can be exported via MSM if it's being used as a swap partition20:28
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DocScrutinizer05      HOME_DEV=`grep "/home ext3" /etc/fstab | cut -d' ' -f1`20:30
DocScrutinizer05      fsck.ext3 -y $HOME_DEV >> /var/lib/fsck_ext3_home.log 2>&120:30
SiceloNIN101: looking at the issue kerio is/was working on, i wondered if RescueOS is able to to resize partitions?20:30
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, there is an important line missing in between20:30
DocScrutinizer05the one that sets a noticeable indication for user feedback about the fact that now it's going to enter a hours-long fsck enterprise20:31
Sicelothen again, it would take obscene amounts of time, i believe :P20:32
kerioSicelo: extending forwards is no big deal20:32
DocScrutinizer05it *will*20:32
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: kernel-power has some hooks to disable fsck if you want :320:33
DocScrutinizer05aah, resize20:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I don't give a big F about disabling stuff, when it's missing indication to user when it actually happens20:33
DocScrutinizer05this friggin else branch needs a call to LP5523 to start a very distinctive LED pattern during fsck20:34
kerioDocScrutinizer05: a proper fremantle install is a bunch of WTFs with a bunch of WTF-y workarounds20:35
DocScrutinizer05all those reports of "OMG my device stays on moving dots since 30min now. I guess it's bricked" W*T*F20:35
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DocScrutinizer05note to <self>: get that shit fixed in next CSSU20:37
DocScrutinizer05should be pretty simple20:37
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DocScrutinizer05a few echo 63243 >/sys/*/*/leds/*/machine20:38
* gena2x bought new card and hopes that this time debian will be finally installed20:38
Sicelowhich instructions are you following btw?20:38
gena2xjust debootstrap =)20:39
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gena2xhave no need in instructions to do that20:39
gena2xinternet is spoiled with easy debian =)20:40
gena2xnew card seem only 3.5 times faster =(20:40
gena2xbut still20:40
gena2xi hope it will be over in one day =)20:40
Sicelothere's at least two people here who have installed the base systme in far less time ...20:41
kerioeasy debian and easy chroot are two HUGE wtfs20:42
gena2xi am using ext3, may be it is a problem20:42
gena2xbut i can't use vfat =)20:42
gena2xto install linux. i feel really bad then i am thinking about it20:43
Sicelogena2x: the people i'm talking about also used ext320:43
gena2xSicelo, good. let's see. now i got fastest sd on markey20:44
keriogena2x: which one?20:44
gena2xkerio, ok, may be not the fastest20:44
gena2xkerio, but i got sandisk ultra20:44
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gena2xclass 1020:45
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spoofyHello everyone :) Could someone tell my what is the difference between metasploit 4.4dev and 4.5? My msf after update is extremly slow21:03
mark_g44yes, that's right :/21:04
mark_g44good question21:04
spoofyI've been searching about this and find that could be old ruby21:04
spoofyCould someone make/compile a new ruby (1.9)?21:05
mark_g44it will be amazing21:06
keriofreemangordon: *poke*21:07
keriothe people want ruby21:07
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kerioso recompile python plskthx21:07
keriobecause fuck ruby21:09
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spoofyWe need newer ruby for metasploit. I compiled newest nmap and postgres but newer version of metasploit need newer ruby...21:12
Sicelospoofy: did you have a look at the issues i had with new nmap?21:13
gena2xIt is possible to run debian chroot from maemo. have anyone tried to run maemo from debian chroot?21:14
gena2xi meant run maemo chroot from debian booted system21:14
gena2xomg i just can't believe21:15
gena2xinstallation completed21:15
Siceloyes. possible21:15
gena2xreally, reason were really, really, really, really crappy 32g kingston class 4 usd21:15
gena2xwhat a piece of shit. i spent two days installing debian to it21:16
spoofySicelo: no but I compile fully working version of nmap 6.0121:16
spoofyWithout interfaces bug and other21:17
GGondid oracle get rid of openoffice?21:20
GGonthey're calling it apache openoffice now21:20
GGonCopyright © 2012 Apache Software Foundation. All rights reserved.21:21
gena2xprobably because everyone switched to libreoffice?21:22
GGoni suppose21:22
gena2xanyone tried to switch n900 to armhf?21:23
gena2xwhile retaining phone capabilities =)21:24
keriooh, hardfp21:30
kerioask freemangordon21:30
keriohe's the dude with the compiler flags21:30
freemangordonanyone with experience with crosstool-ng?21:30
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spoofyfreemangordon: pls.. make a new ruby :D21:35
mark_g44Hi freemangordon - would you make a new ruby ? :D and tell me how to use -mthumb flag21:37
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mark_g44I setup linaro gcc 4.7.2 (according to tutorial form wiki maemo) and it's working nice but How can I use mthumb flag : ?)21:38
mark_g44on wiki maemo - use -mthumb for compile thumb binaries21:39
mark_g44so i don't know :/21:39
freemangordonthat is compiler flag21:39
mark_g44so i can use it with gcc ?21:40
mark_g44ok, thanks for link, but can i use it with "make" command ?21:41
freemangordongcc -mthumb yourcoolstuff.c -o yourcoolstuff21:44
keriomark_g44: sure, change CCFLAGS21:44
mark_g44ok thanks, i will try it (now I'm on n900) :)21:45
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internetishardwhich file is the messages DB stored in?21:50
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kerioor something21:51
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mark_g44msg spoofy jestem21:56
mark_g44delete it :p21:56
DocScrutinizer05internetishard: ""Service for logging of SMS"" ""RTCOM_EL_SERVICE_SMS"" in .rtcom-eventlogger/el.db22:04
DocScrutinizer05actually nowadays el-v1.db22:05
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grammoboyhm the n900 mediaplayer can only play from the Music folder?22:09
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grammoboyis there a mediaplayer who can use other folders?22:09
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DocScrutinizer05internetishard: from el-v1.db:   ""ring/tel/ring<SelfHandle>o2 TeamLieber o2 Kunde, Ihr/e o2 Internet Pack L wird am 18.07.2010 automatisch für Sie verlängert, sofern Ihr Guthaben ausreichend ist.o2 Team""22:10
keriogrammoboy: the mediaplayer shows all the tracked music22:10
kerioby default, tracker tracks *everything*22:10
DocScrutinizer05and also:  -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 600064 2012-09-29 18:43 el-v1.db   --WTF 0.6MB22:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: sqlite doesn't forget22:11
grammoboynot my mounted folder via sshfs22:12
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keriogrammoboy: nope22:12
kerioadd it22:12
internetishardyeah, I'm gonna try doing these steps:
kerioor don't, really22:12
keriouse the file browser to open the files22:12
keriotracking over sshfs is... frightening22:12
grammoboybut then I can also add folders?22:13
grammoboyvia file browser?22:13
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kerioperhaps use a different media player22:13
keriomafw isn't really that good, beyond the normal usecases22:14
kerioand mediaplayer is basically an interface to mafw+tracker22:14
keriogrammoboy: mplayer ;)22:17
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DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: there's a plugin of unspeakable name for mediaplayer, to directly access any file in *real* filesystem22:17
kerioby the way, do file uploads via microB work for someone?22:19
grammoboymplayer I can use via command line22:19
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grammoboyDocScrutinizer05, ah cool that works22:25
gena2xnavit is something true hardcore. seem each user supposed to create own interface for this program.22:25
grammoboyyeah it's nasty22:26
grammoboyto setup22:27
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: another method: enter the URL "file://" into microB22:28
DocScrutinizer05click on your *.mp3 file you wanna play22:28
DocScrutinizer05might actually come in handy, with bookmarks and desktop shorcuts22:29
Sc0rpius_microb plays audio22:29
Sc0rpius_not even I did know that22:29
DocScrutinizer05iirc you also can use filemanager just the same22:29
grammoboymicrob is that standard installed?22:30
DocScrutinizer05I'd not use filemanager as it also could delete your mp3 file ;-D22:30
DocScrutinizer05the standard browser22:30
DocScrutinizer05~reverse microB22:31
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DocScrutinizer05right now I got a shortcut on my desktop that goes straight to dir "/B/B-52's, The/Cosmic thing" and allows me to start any file/song in there with just 2 clicks from desktop22:34
DocScrutinizer05you probably even could create a .index html file in that dir, to have a nice specific display in microB, with cover art and all info for every song and whatnot ;-)22:36
keriowe could get those to be procedurally generated22:36
keriowe could add a way to... track files22:36
r00t|homei prefer xterm + mplayer ;)22:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: ;)22:37
DocScrutinizer05lemme suggest a name for your cute new project. hmmmm, HMMMMMM, maybe...... .... Tracker?22:38
DocScrutinizer05kerio: if you're interested in actually following that path: for whatever reason I got a dir .mediaartlocal here, with an unspeakable file album-*.jpeg in it. clicking on that file already shows B52's Cosmic Thing cover22:40
kerioooh that's where they're saved22:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how do i rm -rf from find22:42
kerio-delete doesn't work, it only deletes single files22:43
gena2x-0 | xargs rm -rf {}22:44
gena2xsmthing like that22:44
DocScrutinizer05kerio: -exec22:44
kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah, that's what i did22:44
DocScrutinizer05only on real find, not on messybox abomination22:45
kerioi still don't trust xargs22:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: who do you think i am?22:45
grammoboyok lemme backup first22:45
grammoboyI like the way I've my n900 atm22:45
kerioalright, deleted mediaartlocal and did tracker-processes -r22:45
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: BM22:45
keriohopefully i'll get cover art working properly22:45
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is
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grammoboybackupmenu + nokia MyDocs backup22:46
* kerio doesn't have anything in MyDocs that's not also somewhere else22:46
grammoboybackupmenu doesn't backup MyDocs right?22:46
grammoboykerio, speed for recovering ;)22:46
keriogrammoboy: it would be a fine topological exercise :322:46
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you know MusOrgsky?22:46
DocScrutinizer05Muss actually22:46
grammoboymy n900 is a multimedia king atm22:47
DocScrutinizer05Music Organizer *sky22:47
grammoboynice for my band22:47
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grammoboyit records pretty good also afaik22:47
kerioi use itunes on my computer22:47
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you might want to have a look at it, when you bother about album cover art22:48
grammoboyusing arecord for cd quality recordings22:49
DocScrutinizer05grammoboy: where to should BM backup the MyDocs content?22:49
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: in MyDocs, duh22:50
grammoboyDocScrutinizer05, at a place where the sun doesn't shine22:50
kerioKlein's vfat22:50
DocScrutinizer05((it records pretty good also afaik)) last wednesday I tried to do a "bootleg" of a concert I attended. shouldn't have relied on Recaller for that, it gave me 80min worth of pure silence :-/22:51
kerioDocScrutinizer05: was the volume high?22:52
Sicelowrong source?22:52
DocScrutinizer05the ambient sounds were rather loud, yeah22:52
DocScrutinizer05source is set to "automatic" iirc22:52
kerioi meant the volume as in the volume slider22:52
kerioalso you should've tested the recording first :)22:53
Siceloi find it better to choose the source manually22:53
DocScrutinizer05never thought it was meant for recording level22:53
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grammoboyuse arecord22:53
DocScrutinizer05well, it's been a spontanous idea. If I had planned it, I had used proper recorder22:54
DocScrutinizer05and N950 since it has nice stereo mic22:54
grammoboythey must be hard to get22:54
grammoboyanyway if you want decent recording, don't use a phone22:55
DocScrutinizer05I could sell you mine, for just 50% over usual market price (think of it as BUY-NOW on fleabay) ;-P22:55
grammoboyand what about n9?22:56
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DocScrutinizer05same audio, much lower price ;-D22:56
DocScrutinizer05I could sell you that one too ;-)22:56
grammoboyn9 are still around 300 euro at ebay 2nd hand22:57
grammoboytoo much for a phone here22:57
* grammoboy just bought a 22:57
grammoboy'new' 2nd hand n900 for 70 euro :)22:58
DocScrutinizer05mine isn't second hand, it's even ennobled by me touching it22:58
keriodamn, i paid 150€ for a n900 before the summer22:58
kerioit was almost brand new, though22:58
grammoboyI just emailed all the people offering a n900 and spent a week for the deal :)22:59
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grammoboythx for the info guys23:01
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: now adimt I'm the greatest, with my microB music interface ;-P23:06
kerioyou're the bestest23:06
kerioor something23:06
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RST38hMeanwhile: A Suicide Goes Viral On the Internet!23:41
* RST38h rejoices23:41
SpeedEvilit wasn't elop.23:41
RST38hSpeed:It has gone viral, so there is hope that sooner or later it reaches Elop and he offs himself23:45
RST38hSpeed: If not though, a viral suicide is definitely good for Mother Earth and Environment23:45
SpeedEvilI don't, think the act is viral.23:46
SpeedEvilthough it does lead to copycats.23:46
SpeedEvilwhich is why reporting it in such a manner is retarded and irresponsible23:46
RST38hthat is what the wording implies though23:46
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kerio"Man kills himself after realizing he's on Fox News"23:51
SpeedEvilat 18* the speed of light.23:51
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