IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-09-28

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DocScrutinizer05btw if you add a 25th array element of 53 to end of rx51_temp_table1, you can save the (anyway incorrect) lines 121..12300:01
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Paliit is correct :-) for temperature 54°C there is no RAW value (look at formula and try to assign)00:07
Palionly 55°C and 53°C00:07
DocScrutinizer05(incorrect since for all other raw values you pick the next lower index (with next lower raw value) in rx51_temp_table2 aiui, in return (rx51_temp_table2_first - min) * 100;)00:07
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DocScrutinizer05only for this special case you return next higher value00:08
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vi__ghostery seems to work with microb.00:10
DocScrutinizer05but since there's no gap in your raw values between last index of tab1 (24) and lowest value in tab2[0], the case is fictive anyway00:10
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, no, now I see that line 122 is redundant and it is always false00:12
Paliif raw == 24 then rx51_temp_table1[24] is returned00:13
Paliif raw == 25 then binary search loop in rx51_temp_table2 is performed00:13
DocScrutinizer05and if your tables would look different (e.g. value of tab2[0]=30) then adding 30 as last value to tab1 would catch that again00:13
Palisizeof(table1)/sizeof(table1[0]) is 2500:14
DocScrutinizer05Pali: exactly what I tried to tell you, when I said "case is fictive", so why "no"?00:14
Paliit always return ceil(convert(raw))00:15
DocScrutinizer05you do return (rx51_temp_table2_first - min) * 10000:16
Paliright, *100 is needed00:16
DocScrutinizer05(which btw might better look like return (rx51_temp_table2_first - mid) * 100 ?)00:16
PaliI forgot to add *10000:17
DocScrutinizer05that too00:17
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DocScrutinizer05and for a fictive raw value of 24.5 it should return 53°C, not 55°C00:18
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DocScrutinizer05I.E last value in tab1, not first value in tab200:19
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Paliah, now I see what you mean00:19
DocScrutinizer05since for all other raw values that aren't 'exact' you also pick the next lower raw value's temperature00:19
DocScrutinizer05it's a dicontinuity00:20
DocScrutinizer05though it never will occur00:20
DocScrutinizer05better have your tab1 and tab2 'overlap' rather than accept gaps between them00:21
DocScrutinizer05so line 121..123 are incorrect and cruft ;-)00:22
DocScrutinizer05125 still missing * 10000:23
Pali119, 123 and 12500:23
DocScrutinizer05while I rather would return #def for EOUTOFBOUNDS00:24
Pali121..123 - you need to prevent infinite loop in binary search00:24
Palisee 186, MIN/MAX are ignored00:25
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DocScrutinizer05ohwell, you could just add 1023 aka --(1<<10)  to tab200:26
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Paliok, return values are fixed00:27
dafoxhi all. I was wondering if anyone here has his n900 working with an DLNA media server for playing music?00:27
Palinow I'm going offline...00:27
DocScrutinizer05add 1023 to tab2! ;-)00:27
DocScrutinizer05saves line 124..12500:28
DocScrutinizer05IOW why /* Possible correct values which are not in tables */ when you actually can take care there's no such value that's not in the tables?00:29
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DocScrutinizer05btw static u8 rx51_temp_table2_first = 53; is useless (better use a #def rx51_temp_table2_first  53) since it never gets changed00:39
DocScrutinizer05(compiler will take care of it I guess, as it will probably not allign your u8 array like you hope it does)00:39
DocScrutinizer05I'm actually almost temped to write an alternative code with only one uniform table with struct tuple {u16 raw; u16 celsius}00:43
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narcosHello all. I'd like to launch a script requiring root from a desktop icon. The only way I've managed to succeed is with a 'loader' script. In my .desktop file I have   Exec=osso-xterm -e "sh /bin/"  and then has   sudo theRealScript.sh01:35
narcosIs there a way to do this directly?01:35
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narcosMaybe I can rephrase - is there a way to launch osso-xterm directly into a root shell?01:46
Skrynarcos: chmod u+s ?01:46
narcosSkry: Hm, good point01:46
* narcos tries01:46
nox-suid scripts work?01:48
Skryno idea01:49
narcosit launches, trying to test if I have elevated privs01:49
narcosshould 'whoami' report the name of the calling user, or root?01:49
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DocScrutinizer05nox-: nope01:53
DocScrutinizer05usually scripts won't obey SUID01:53
nox-yeah i'd have been surprised01:53
DocScrutinizer05there's a system option to allow it (probably compile time option)01:54
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DocScrutinizer05but sh will *never* obey SUID01:54
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narcosThing is, using the 'launcher' method would be fine (beyond the annoyance), but has some code that catches SIGTERM, and gracefully shuts things down. However, hitting ctrl-c via the launcher script doesn't seem to pass the SIGTERM onto (unless Im passing the SIGERM along incorrectly)...01:56
DocScrutinizer05usual way: if ![ $(/usr/bin/whoami) = root]; then exec sudo $0 "$@"; fi;01:57
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DocScrutinizer05and get a proper shebang line and call it directly instead of passing it to sh as a parameter01:58
DocScrutinizer05get a correct entry in /etc/sudoers.d/<yoursudofile>01:59
DocScrutinizer05run update-sudoers, do NOT edit /etc/sudoers01:59
narcosDocScrutinizer05: There are lots of file in /etc/sudoers.d/  - I'm not sure which one I should be looking at..? 'everybody.sudoers' perhaps?02:02
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, what? is there a file called everybody.sudoers?02:03
narcosEr, yeah :)02:03
narcosThere are 20 files there.02:04
DocScrutinizer05you should create your own file, like every decent other app has02:04
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narcosAnd this is given that I want the user 'user' to be able to sudo? Even though it already can?02:05
DocScrutinizer05but I guess everybody.sudoers has yust the ultimate fsck-me-please config inside that allows everybody to do everything via sudo02:05
DocScrutinizer05the user wants to sudo <yourfile>, not sudo sudo02:06
narcosAh, sorry, I think I misunderstood the purpose of the file.02:06
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DocScrutinizer05if your script is, your sudoers file might be for-fobar.sudoers, and contains >>  user ALL = NOPASSWD: /path/to/ * <<02:09
DocScrutinizer05btw I got no everybody.sudoers file02:09
narcosSweet, it works02:10
DocScrutinizer05I bet you got that abomination with some weird crappy pkg like "easy-sudo" or whatever02:10
narcosNot sure - how could I chech?02:10
narcos(to satisfy your curiosity :) )02:10
narcos# dpkg -l | grep sudo02:11
narcosii  rootsh                                              1.5                              Enable root access, via the "sudo gainroot"02:11
narcosii  sudo                                                1:1.6.8p12-4osso22+0m5           Provide limited super user privileges to spe02:11
DocScrutinizer05dpkg -S /etc/sudoers.d/everybody.sudoers02:15
DocScrutinizer05narcos: ^^^02:16
DocScrutinizer05also what actually *is* in this file?02:16
DocScrutinizer05cat /etc/sudoers.d/everybody.sudoers02:16
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DocScrutinizer05paste the one relevant line here02:17
DocScrutinizer05(if it's just one)02:17
narcosuser ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL02:17
narcos# dpkg -S /etc/sudoers.d/everybody.sudoers02:18
narcosdpkg: /etc/sudoers.d/everybody.sudoers not found.02:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah, expected as much02:18
narcosWhat does that tell us?02:18
DocScrutinizer05it's a really really terrible idea02:18
DocScrutinizer05it tells sudo to accept any command from any user, without asking for password02:18
DocScrutinizer05and no package feels responsible for that abomination02:19
DocScrutinizer05probably some hacker rooted your device ;-P02:19
narcosLOL - if I was that package, I wouldn't own up either02:19
narcosIt's probably the custom install I'm using02:20
* narcos checks the setup file02:20
DocScrutinizer05you should delete that friggin file02:21
DocScrutinizer05the everybody.sudoers02:21
DocScrutinizer05don't forget to run command update-sudoers02:21
narcosYeah, I think I will.02:21
narcosSo, I use the 'pwnphone' image, because it loads up things like power-kenrnel, scapy, tshark, and other networking things that I need02:22
narcosOnce I get stuff working, I'll probably make my own image - if 'image' is the right word02:22
DocScrutinizer05yeah, it already pwnd your phone's sudo02:23
narcosYeah, seems so02:23
DocScrutinizer05if you're concerned about proper sudo setup, have a look to my tools page to get working ROOTpassword for sudo gainroot02:24
infobotjrtools is, like,
DocScrutinizer05still not safe (any attacker can install crap like this everybody.sudoers via HAM still), but at least it feels a tad better first approach when sudo gainroot asks for root password02:25
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narcosDocScrutinizer05: Cool, thanks, I'll check that out.02:27
narcosAlthough these devices will largely run unattended, so not requiring a password is a good thing.02:27
narcosCan rather limit it to my scripts.02:28
narcosDocScrutinizer05: How did it come to be that you know so much about Maemo..?02:28
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DocScrutinizer05all proper sudoers files for particular usecases still have NOPASSWD in them02:29
narcosNo I mean in general, you seem to grok everything about it.02:30
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DocScrutinizer05that's the idea how to use sudoers: you define special cases where a program needs root, and you define if this particular case sudo shall ask for password or not02:31
narcosah right, gotcha02:31
narcosThat makes more sense.02:31
DocScrutinizer05narcos: I'm using linux since >12 years now, I used sun-OS/solaris even before. And I had a job where I had to deal with similar embedded/phone linux02:32
narcosOK, cool :)02:33
DocScrutinizer05my advice on jrtools just removes NOPASSWD from gainroot, and it sets default config of sudo to ask for root's password, not user's password02:33
narcosSeems like a good idea02:34
DocScrutinizer05"Defaults targetpw"02:36
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narcosI notice on this 'pwnphone' image they launch all their apps via the 'laucher' script approach02:36
narcosI think I'll pass your wisdom along to them02:36
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DocScrutinizer05your ö02:42
DocScrutinizer05your line user ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL  was actually perfectly sane without the NOPASSWD02:42
DocScrutinizer05(given you have "Defaults targetpw")02:43
narcosah ok02:43
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DocScrutinizer05on ubuntu and other crap you have no "Defaults targetpw" afaik, so each "sudo foobar" asks for USER password before executing foobar with root privileges02:45
DocScrutinizer05which is rather silly in my book02:45
robbiethe1stExcept that the only point of it is to prevent applications from running without user permissions02:46
robbiethe1st*the user's permission02:46
narcosheh @ 'Ubuntu and other crap'. Does seem a little silly.02:46
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I bet I fool you with a shell 5liner02:46
narcosOh yeah?02:47
DocScrutinizer05yeah, since there's no problem to fake sudo output02:47
DocScrutinizer05this is called password skimming02:48
narcosOh right - yeah, sneaky :)02:48
DocScrutinizer05and generally user's password shouldn't empower any process to have root permissions02:48
robbiethe1stYou're still thinking in terms of multi-user machines02:49
narcosHadn't thought about it via sudo before, that's a nice idea. I see it more often with fake banking/facebook/gmail/foo web apps02:49
robbiethe1stVersus single-user machine.02:49
DocScrutinizer05'm thinking roles instead of users02:49
DocScrutinizer05which is actually how it's once been meant02:49
narcosOhhhh right02:50
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: FFS promote BM to testing!02:50
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robbiethe1stUh, is everything else in testing?02:52
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DocScrutinizer05PostSuspendum: check your etc/passwd and you'll see that you're always on a multiuser machine on any unix02:53
DocScrutinizer05dependencies, good point. We'll deal with that later02:53
DocScrutinizer05or right now02:54
DocScrutinizer05we'll get this to extras, od die02:54
robbiethe1stClicking promote now.02:54
DocScrutinizer05if not even BM makes it to extras, we can nuke extras all together and rename devel to extras02:54
robbiethe1stRename Testing to Extras02:55
robbiethe1stThere. Package promoted?02:55
robbiethe1stnOW WHAT?02:56
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narcosPhew, late o'clock, time for bed. Thanks for the help DocScrutinizer05.02:58
narcosNight all.02:58
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, your approach kinda sucks08:48
keriogainroot is supposed to be called passwordlessly08:48
keriobecause it checks rd-mode08:49
DocScrutinizer05 bs08:49
keriorootsh changes that08:49
DocScrutinizer05sudo checks R&D mode, not gainroot08:50
DocScrutinizer05err, scratch that08:51
DocScrutinizer05anyway, how's that relevant?08:51
DocScrutinizer05if anything sucks, then it's your pointless criticism08:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: how did rx_battery go? sorry I felt asleep yesterday.08:54
freemangordonthe temperature thingie08:54
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DocScrutinizer05pali's new LUT code?08:55
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DocScrutinizer05seems it's mostly ok, we weeded out some dead cruft code, the rest schould be fine08:56
DocScrutinizer05I'm still wondering if that thing indeed has to deliver centigrade (1/100 °C)08:57
freemangordonhmm, i looked at the code, seems ok to me (from the LUT size POV)08:57
DocScrutinizer05usually you use milli-UNIT08:57
DocScrutinizer05or micro-UNIT (uA)08:57
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freemangordonwell, AFAIK minor unit for deg celsius is 0.0108:58
kerioDocScrutinizer05: a better way to allow passworded root access would be to add user ALL = (ALL) ALL08:59
DocScrutinizer05kerio: read backscroll and stop pestering me! I'm afk now anyway09:00
DocScrutinizer05pointless criticism09:00
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LantiziaWith Tizen and Jolla/Mer being RPM based - what (still developed) mobile OS's exist out there other than Maemo that uses debian package management?13:36
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M4rtinKthey are based on Debian & use debian packages13:41
Lantiziahmm but the device they develop for is dead13:41
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Lantiziasee my N900 is getting on a bit... I've been thinking of getting an Atom/Medfield based Android phone13:43
Lantiziaat least then if Ubuntu/Fedora/whomever come out with some kind of mobile-ui-centric interface i can put any old x86 OS on it13:43
Lantizia(possibly in the future)13:43
M4rtinKthey also support the GTA0413:44
M4rtinKwhich is also open hardware & has specs similar to the N900 :)13:44
Luke-Jro rly?13:45
M4rtinKbut yeah, its quite a niche device & horrendously expensive :)13:45
M4rtinKnot by default13:45
M4rtinKbut you can probably easily slap one on it13:45
M4rtinKyou can even order just the board :D13:45
Luke-Jrno kb = crap13:46
Lantiziai agree13:46
Luke-JrGTA04 site false advertises :<13:46
Luke-Jr"No locks by undocumented hardware." "3D Graphics Accelerator and DSP"13:46
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Hurrianwhoa, people are buying the GTA04?14:00
Hurrianthat's a mighty price to pay for freedom.14:01
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jacekowskiand modem firmware is closed anyways14:04
jacekowskiand it's 2g only iirc14:04
fluxclaims it's UMTS14:04
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fluxit doesn't seem -that- sucky14:06
fluxbut I'll probably wait for what Jolla has :)14:06
fluxoh, I misread the price, it seems it's a 'choose the parts for your kit first'14:07
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Hurrianflux, iirc it's GBP 666 for the board14:16
fluxoh it was GBP :)14:16
fluxnope, it's EUR 66614:16
Hurrianmeh, I'd rather spend the cash on a USB-reinforced N900.14:16
Hurrianactually, make that a few N900s.14:17
flux+70 EUR for LCD, +20 for battery, +XX for case unless you make one yourself14:17
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fluxhurrian, I guess you can do that now on ebay :)14:17
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HurrianI mean, tbh, we have ofono running on our devices, a hardware keyboard, and a decent (ex) officially supported OS14:18
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Hurrianflux: if Jolla's got an open bootloader and GNU/Linux at a reasonable price, I'm set.14:20
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fluxhurrian, what would be reasonable price for you?14:22
Hurrianhigh spec phone a la SGS3: US$600-70014:22
fluxI would be surprised if we got a hardware-keyboard Jolla with much less than 650 EUR non-subsidized14:23
Hurrianmid spec phone a la N9: US$400-50014:23
fluxbut I suppose the market prices are different here in Finland..14:23
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* Lava_Croft mumbles something about wanting a GNU userland and faster hardware, while not really giving a damn about the rest14:51
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deepyWhy would you want a GNU userland?14:54
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dafoxso, does anyone have a media server (DLNA) setup working with his n900? For me browsing (e.g. for music) works, but it fails when the media player tries to actually open the file for playback ("Unable to find media file"). Any ideas? The server works fine with both foobar-upnp and vlc's upnp browser15:21
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Hurriandafox, PS3 media server with custom profile for N90015:30
Hurrianalso works with the default windows UPnP server15:30
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dafoxHurrian: cool. Did you have to do anything with you n900 before it worked?15:30
Hurriandafox, nothing at all.15:30
dafoxAre you using cssu?15:30
dafoxThe default windows upnp server == windows media player?15:31
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, Hi, see:
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grammoboyhow can I check if my n900 has the latest maemo version?15:45
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DocScrutinizer51grammoboy: settings->about15:52
grammoboyDocScrutinizer05, 21.2011.38-115:53
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grammoboyDocScrutinizer51, ^ is that the latest?15:53
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grammoboyit looks like it is15:58
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infobotrumour has it, maemo-flashing is
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grammoboyit is the latest version right?17:12
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grammoboyoh that app manager is awful sloooowwwwwwwww17:53
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DocScrutinizer51HAM is slow, esp when you have extras-testing and extras-devel repos enabled17:55
DocScrutinizer51but at least all pkgs are tested to work for isntallation under HAM17:56
DocScrutinizer51while other app managers may (and will) occasionally fail on certain packages, which can render your system in an unadmirable state17:57
grammoboyany good youtube app?17:58
Skrycutetube qml17:58
grammoboygps + osm?17:59
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grammoboyhm the search function of cutetube seems to suck18:02
grammoboyI search on 'mercy mercy mercy'18:03
grammoboyget whole different results18:03
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DocScrutinizer51maemo-mapper, one google search away18:06
grammoboyah order by relevance18:07
DocScrutinizer51search:maemo openstreetmap18:07
grammoboygoogle doesn't tell me which is best18:07
DocScrutinizer51if I can search on my N900, you can do as well18:08
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dafoxHurrian: The default windows upnp server == windows media player?18:23
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grammoboyhmm now I have a bash script in /usr/bin and the n900 user can't execute20:34
befordchmod +x?20:35
befordthe shebang is correct?20:35
grammoboyscript is 0play20:35
befordI think n900 doesn't use "bash" by default20:35
grammoboy0play not found20:35
grammoboythat works20:41
befordwhat worked20:41
grammoboychanging it from sh to bash20:42
grammoboyand then run the script20:42
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kerioheh, my n900 barely survived a day of light usage21:02
keriobecause i forgot it in monitor mode for like 4 hours21:03
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vi__So the chilli thief at work finally revealed himself.21:05
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vi__I left some daves insanity sauce in a cholula bottle in the fridge.21:06
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vi__a sauce so hot it is banned from the international hot sauce convention.21:06
vi__It was the company CEO all along.21:06
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RiDvi__ .... lol21:13
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keriovi__: so?21:14
kerioanyway, wifi monitor mode absolutely wrecks bluetooth connections21:16
vi__So I had to leave the canteen before I had to prove that was my normal chilli sauce that I like to eat.21:17
vi__The last I looked he was bright red.21:17
vi__kerio: You are aware the bluetooth chip and wifi chip are one and the same?21:18
vi__it is why you will never see themboth at the same party at the same time.21:18
kerio...they're not, they just share the same antenna21:18
kerioor something21:18
vi__or am I thinking of the FM chip...21:18
keriobut yeah, i'm aware of them being close21:18
RiDand bluetooth and FM transmitter are also somewhat together...21:19
keriobluetooth and fmtx are the same21:19
RiDyou can't have one of them turned off, i guess21:19
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DocScrutinizer51duck and cover!!! ;-P22:17
grammoboywhat is a good backup system to backup your whole n900 install?22:19
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is
RiDoh hello doc22:24
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DocScrutinizer05*sigh* what have I done?!23:22
* DocScrutinizer05 should nominate ShadowJK ;-P23:29
ShadowJKI would decline23:30
DocScrutinizer05since you're not as silly as i am23:31
DocScrutinizer05lots of bitching for expending your time, not much hope for a bright future, no fame, no money ;-P23:32
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DocScrutinizer05lemme troll a little, so maybe nobody votes me XP23:33
* RST38h yawns23:34
RST38hSo, what is cooking?23:34
ShadowJKI forget what the point of it is/was now that nokia is dead23:34
RST38hRat meat? Human meat? Elop's chops?23:34
* DocScrutinizer05 nominates RST38h23:35
* kerio still nominates DocScrutinizer05 as hildon foundation's eternal leader23:35
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: actually a good point. Seems council is an entity without mission23:35
RST38hhas been that way for a while, haven't you noticed?23:36
DocScrutinizer05I just didn't like to frustrate all the youngsters23:37
DocScrutinizer05right now council cranks up board23:37
DocScrutinizer05but what will council do next term?23:37
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RST38hsame as the last term? nothing?23:38
DocScrutinizer05right now council cranks up board23:38
DocScrutinizer05ooh, *last* term23:39
DocScrutinizer05might have a point23:39
RST38hI think it might make sense to look for migration routes now23:39
DocScrutinizer05seems last term been SD69 and he's been terribly busy with other stuff23:40
RST38hSuch as Tizen-on-Galaxy or Boot-2-Gecko or Jolla thing23:40
SpeedEvilor even Firefox is23:40
RST38hsee Boot-2-Gecko23:40
RST38hthat is firefox "os"23:41
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* SpeedEvil is not awake.23:41
DocScrutinizer05jolla might be a sensible project to bang the door, but the other stuff definitely isn't any topic for council23:41
kerioyou'll never take fremantle away from me!23:41
RST38hDoc: dunno about council, just looking from the neutralpoint of view23:41
SpeedEvilthough it's amore alien than android23:41
RST38hDoc: All three are Linux based23:42
RST38hDoc: If you do not like the word "tizen" we can call it SLP23:42
ShadowJKLast time I checked tmo, it seemed like people had this funny idea that the council can do actual work like coding, or atleast, do more than what was their purpose last time I checked, to be representatives of community with nokia. Whoever is in council wont change the amount of or direction of cssu at all, I'd think, because it's all volunteer effort anyways.. and I say cssu because it seems the most relevant to any future life support :-)23:42
RST38hThere are live, sane people left at tmo? Miracle.23:43
DocScrutinizer05but maemo community is... well, maemo commuinty. If somebody wants to move to android or whatever, he's free to do so. *nobody* will steer the community at large towards any arbitrary point outside maemo23:43
RST38hBut, let us be honest: council has never done anything useful23:43
DocScrutinizer05beg to differ23:44
ShadowJKRST38h, my point is that that's not even their purpose ;-)23:44
RST38hShadowJK: My point is that their purpose is beside the point =)23:44
RST38hShadowJK: The community has always been driven by people who could sit down and do something - application, site, faq, etc23:44
DocScrutinizer05council helped with device seeding, for instance. When there were projects like h-e-n or SHR23:44
RST38hShadowJK: These are generally not council members23:44
ShadowJKRST38h, that's MY point, you plagiarizing dolt ;-P23:45
RST38hDoc: Yeah, but it was long time ago, and even then it was concrete people, not the council in general23:45
Woody14619RST38H: I see, so keeping the lights on = nothing useful?23:45
RST38hWoody: correct.23:45
ShadowJKKeeping lights on is vital :-)23:45
DocScrutinizer05hi Woody1461923:45
RST38hvital how? and for whom?23:46
Woody14619Good to know... When the servers go out Dec 31st, I'll let everyone know it was because you thought it not vital.23:46
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: council is not even *meant* to do that steering you expect to see23:46
* Woody14619 waves23:46
* RST38h does notexpect any "steering": neither him nor the community are cars23:46
Woody14619Btw: Most folks working on CSSU consider the builder and repos to be somewhat important, last I checked.23:47
DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-28 22:44:48] <RST38h> ShadowJK: The community has always been driven by people who could sit down and do something - application, site, faq, etc23:47
DocScrutinizer05it's not council to 'drive' community23:47
DocScrutinizer05it's community that does this23:47
RST38hand how much of the community has been left?23:48
DocScrutinizer05well, seems you're not part of those remnants23:48
ShadowJKIf community council is actually a body of people that actually gets access to be able to fix servers and repos when they break, that'd be cool, but then I'd think the the name would need a change :-)23:48
RST38hDoc: I am just a piece of toilet paper in the wind =)23:49
Woody14619Is has.  That's what the foundation is for.23:49
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's board, or those who get nominated by board23:49
DocScrutinizer05council never been meant to do admin job on servers23:50
Woody14619At the same time, most people that would want to work on that board may NOT want to deal with the community as deeply as Council as (doing things like running award programs, etc23:50
Woody14619Which is why we separated the two.23:50
ShadowJKAlso, the 6 month or whatever cycle made sense back when maemo was cutting edge growing thing, I wouldn't at all mind if people were made "permanent" members, with provision for replacement on demand through some vote-like process or the member going away him/herself etc23:50
DocScrutinizer05and which is why I hope to get elected for none, or both23:51
Woody14619Mind you, Councils job will become immesely easier when they have better access, which they effectivly will if the Foundation can take over everything.23:51
DocScrutinizer05access to what? It's not council to admin the servers23:52
Woody14619As good as Niels was, he was one man running most of the show.  With the Foundation, that work can be properly divided out.23:52
DocScrutinizer05Niels never been council AFAIK23:52
Woody14619No, they won't have direct access.  But they'll be able to get actual e-mailed answers, and hopefully more info on what's going on then what we have over the past couple years.23:52
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's what council does23:53
Woody14619I never said he was Council... re-read.23:53
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DocScrutinizer05I never said you said ;-)23:53
Woody14619Right now, if you have a request (like, I want to hold a CC election), you ask Council that, and we have NO access to do anything for it.23:53
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Woody14619We can pre-setup some things, but the actual lever must be pulled by the admin.23:53
DocScrutinizer05that's why we get a proper board now, for that23:54
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DocScrutinizer05and the board will not do this job themselves either, usually. They nominate /and maybe even pay) some (semi-)professional admin for that. That's the way things work in RL23:54
ShadowJKbtw, I now also got a quad core 1.6GHz  android device with 1 gigs of Ram.. but N900 is still main device, and the android pisses me off everytime I try use it, sits mostly unused, except for playing Grand Theft Auto23:55
Woody14619And when that admin only replies to one in 10 e-mails, it can be frustrating.  Then add Nokia stoping payment for the admin group to do *anything* related to your group, and it's all volunteer.23:55
DocScrutinizer05when the admin does that, he gets a thankful kick in the backside23:56
DocScrutinizer05that's what board is for23:56
RiDaaah... nokia will take my n900 tomorrow23:56
DocScrutinizer05that's why board holds the master key23:56
Woody14619Yes...  The Board will be more in control by way of dividing up who does what... though some direct admining may happen at first...23:56
RiDonly tomorrow *sigh*23:56
* RiD broke the conversation23:56
* ShadowJK wonders if maemo infra is still horrendously expensive, mer/meego/jolla allegedly got hosting costs down to <300, and they've probably got more dev activity these days than maemo?23:57
* DocScrutinizer05 breaks his monologue now, to get some TV and a nice ABSOLUT wodka to forget the silly things he did today23:57
DocScrutinizer05FFS council nomination, WTF?!23:58
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: will you run for another term?23:58
Woody14619ShadowJK: For Nokia, probably.  For the foundation, we're hoping we can bring it down significantly....23:58
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Woody14619For Council or for Board?23:58
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, this video will make sense after the vodka
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Woody14619I already put on the ML that I would run for Board, with a very special caveat that I will be relativly inactive until March.23:59
DocScrutinizer05>> Dieses Video ist in Deutschland leider nicht verfügbar, da es möglicherweise Musik enthält, für die die erforderlichen Musikrechte von der GEMA nicht eingeräumt wurden. Das tut uns leid.<<23:59

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