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| Skry | DocScrutinizer05: true, somewhat offtopic indeed but it's nice to have some at times | 00:12 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<dafox> both are 'cheating' the network operators)) No, actually I think they're cheating on their customers, by making them think those could get something for free while they had to pay for same service with their network-operator aka provider aka carrier | 00:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | in fact the custumer pays as well when using whatsap etc, just those cheaters don't admit that. You however can calculate what's the real monetary value of the info/data those cheaters collect about their customers | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it usually turns out tthat in the end you (the customer) pay *more* with those cheaters than you'd do with your network provider | 00:17 |
| beford | the server is only free 1 year, after that is 0.99 /year i believe | 00:25 |
| beford | not sure how much can they make with that | 00:26 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: just get Google Apps for Businesses. $50 a year, and no scanning. | 00:27 |
| teotwaki | You can use a @gmail address or @whateverdomainyou'retheproudownerof.com | 00:27 |
| teotwaki | And regarding WhatsApp, they just put stupid messaging in a nice wrapper, and marketed it to the young hip crowds. "Free messaging, images and file transfer for you and your buddies" | 00:29 |
| teotwaki | They were smart, nothing more to it. | 00:29 |
| teotwaki | Most of us here know there's no such thing as a free lunch. Let those who can convince people of that fact make the money they want. | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: probably you're right, I should listen to FZ:"SON OF ORANGE COUNTY" and not try to save the world | 00:33 |
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| teotwaki | You won't save the world by bitching and moaning in a dead IRC channel. | 00:36 |
| teotwaki | Face it, the people who are still here already have a vested interest in Free Software---it's like preaching to the choir. | 00:36 |
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| dafox | pretty much every 'free' service does that, tries to create a 'profile' and target ads or sell it to someone else, that's just the way it is nowadays. Regardless it would be nice to communicate with friends and family using the same 'app', if possible. However if it's only free for one year I don't know if it's really worth the effort | 00:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~chaninfo | 01:59 |
| infobot | 125/125 channels, 4831 users, 3444 unique: #debian/1162, #kde/353, #maemo/258, #gsoc/200, #asterisk/176, #meego/174, #harmattan/173, #wowuidev/153, #oe/129, #wowace/125, #wowhead/101, #webos-internals/100, #arm-netbook/94, #openmoko/87, #utah/70, #openmoko-cdevel/62, #edev/61, #uclibc/61, #n9/59, #bzflag/56, #curseforge/52, #asterisk-dev/51, #maemo-ssu/51, #qi-hardware/51, #tomcat/50, #htc-linux/49, #sc2mapster/47, #cubieboard/40, #/38, ... | 01:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rank #3 after #debian and #kde I wouldn't call "dead channel" | 01:59 |
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| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: those are channels with infobot on it | 02:07 |
| teotwaki | just #freenode and #ubuntu make us 5th place, DocScrutinizer05. | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: I'm aware this is a infobot-POV. On freenode at large, #maemo is on rank #79 in a list of 12108 channels | 02:54 |
| dafox | well, what percentage of n900 owners is that then? | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 98 | 02:59 |
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| dafox | rather high... I'd think there more more users left... :( | 03:03 |
| nox- | 98% sounds unlikely yeah... | 03:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what we're talking about | 03:09 |
| nox- | <dafox> well, what percentage of n900 owners is that then? | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't get much clearer on repeating it | 03:10 |
| nox- | i guess he was wondering how many n900 users are in here... | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | percentage of N900 users in #maemo? percentage of N900 users in freenode? percentage of freenode users in group of N900 users? | 03:11 |
| nox- | how many of the remaining users that is | 03:11 |
| dafox | without any real way of measuring that, my hope would be 'far less than 1%'. Just because there are just a few users on IRC doesn't mean that nobody is using n900 anymore | 03:12 |
| beford | I still use it as my main phone | 03:12 |
| nox- | percentage of #maemo users in total number of remaining n900 users | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <1% | 03:13 |
| nox- | yeah | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even council wasn't on IRC until I suggested to them | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some didn't even bother after I suggested | 03:15 |
| dafox | exactly. I don't think that kind of channel ranking is in anyway indicative of 'being dead' | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd even think tmo isn't used by more than 10% of N900 users | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? teotwaki talked about a "dead channel" iirc | 03:16 |
| dafox | well, if they're anything like me there may be many 'read only' users :) | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if anything, we might discuss how relevant IRC activity is for a living community | 03:17 |
| dafox | I thought he meant to imply maemo/n900 was 'dead' :s | 03:18 |
| nox- | it only smells funny :P | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | highly evolved perverted tango | 03:19 |
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| * nox- just wonders what will happen once nokia drops the websites... | 03:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nixon will bring them back ;-P | 03:21 |
| nox- | :P | 03:21 |
| teotwaki | please take your shoddy language parsing abilities elsewhere. I made it very clear that I was taking about this very specific channel. | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | This is Be-Bop, Even though you think it doesn't sound like that. | 03:24 |
| teotwaki | If you read anything more than that into my statement: piss off, go troll somewhere else. | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, chill! | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 03:26 |
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| * teotwaki lights a cigarette and throws one at anyone who asks. | 03:28 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it seems in my company we are 3 smokers of >50 employees :-/ | 03:32 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: in mine, it's roughly 40 smokers for 50 employees. | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's a bit strange there in general. We also seem to have no coffee, nor any other supply for beverage | 03:35 |
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| gomiam | hi again... | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi | 03:35 |
| gomiam | I'm trying to flash my n900 through the software updater but it complains it is connected through a hub even though it is connected directly to the computer | 03:35 |
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| gomiam | how can I tell the software updater not to pay attention to that? | 03:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | gomiam: several PC mainboards have on board USB hubs | 03:36 |
| gomiam | I guess that is the problem, but I can't really open up my laptop :) | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and actaully I have no clue about sw updater. I recommend to user flasher-3.5 | 03:37 |
| teotwaki | gomiam: have you tried different USB ports? | 03:37 |
| gomiam | teotwaki: all 4 of them | 03:37 |
| teotwaki | what about the fifth/ | 03:37 |
| gomiam | even the USB 3.0 one | 03:37 |
| teotwaki | The one behind the battery? | 03:37 |
| gomiam | not in this laptop, sorry | 03:37 |
| teotwaki | He has a brain. | 03:38 |
| teotwaki | :) | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use flasher | 03:38 |
| gomiam | XDD | 03:38 |
| gomiam | teotwaki: thanks... I guess :P | 03:38 |
| gomiam | ok, I'll try flasher. | 03:38 |
| gomiam | since I already downloaded the files some time ago | 03:38 |
| teotwaki | Last time I pulled that one on #ubuntu, the guy disconnected... Apparently he wasn't connected to a socket. | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing | 03:39 |
| infobot | well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 03:39 |
| gomiam | XDDDDDD | 03:39 |
| gomiam | teotwaki: perhaps he had the Ethernet connector on the back of the laptop | 03:39 |
| teotwaki | oh man, don't talk about that | 03:39 |
| gomiam | check if you do ;) | 03:40 |
| teotwaki | couple weeks ago, I borrowed a wireless keyboard/mouse from a colleague's desktop (after hours) for my raspberry | 03:40 |
| teotwaki | once I was done with it, I put the USB dongle back into the little placeholder for it, next to the keyboard's batteries. | 03:41 |
| teotwaki | When I got back the next morning, there was an email to the whole company, from the chick's manager (the chick I took the keyboard from), and the office manager | 03:41 |
| teotwaki | Both saying something along the lines of "Someone stole the dongle, return it immediately or face the consequences" | 03:42 |
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| gomiam | XDDD | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 03:42 |
| teotwaki | I went and told them it was in the storage thingie. | 03:42 |
| gomiam | well, I've been known to wonder where the hell the dongle was storeds at with some wireless mice | 03:42 |
| teotwaki | The IT guy (who happened to be there) looked at it, went "Oh, I didn't know they provided such a little hiding spot" | 03:43 |
| gomiam | e.g., it was hidden below the battery. | 03:43 |
| gomiam | teotwaki: my reaction, exactly. | 03:43 |
| teotwaki | And then he tried to plug it in. It didn't work. | 03:43 |
| gomiam | now that's stranger | 03:43 |
| teotwaki | I told him "You can't really put a USB connector in the Ethernet port. They're not electrically compatible" | 03:43 |
| teotwaki | He's the CEO's brother. Can you guess why he's the head of IT? | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess he didn't even blush | 03:44 |
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| gomiam | I have had that problem too... usually when trying to reach the back of a computer by touch alone. Then again, I usually check the hole isn't too big :D | 03:47 |
| teotwaki | Pro-tip: if you can stuff your pinkie in it, it's not a USB port. | 03:48 |
| teotwaki | If you can't stuff your pinkie in an ethernet port, you're obese: get a bicycle. | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I just first time noticed they are almost same size | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (USB and RJ45 that is) | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fits surprisingly well | 03:51 |
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| gomiam | ok, flashing... failed, yay! | 04:05 |
| gomiam | let's see whether it works, anyway | 04:06 |
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| gomiam | ok, first message is telephony functions disabled. But it's not that surprising because I took the SIM card off. | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does anybody remember that website with EULA summaries that people were tweeting about a month or two ago? | 04:12 |
| gomiam | GeneralAntilles: ¿google? | 04:14 |
| gomiam | ok, language selection ok | 04:16 |
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| gomiam | ok, flash successful. Time to check the SIM. | 04:17 |
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| gomiam | booting... | 04:19 |
| gomiam | and no message about telephony failure yet... | 04:19 |
| gomiam | and no dice: telephony functions disabled. Damn | 04:20 |
| gomiam | ok, bed time. I'll try it again tomorrow | 04:25 |
| gomiam | bye and thanks | 04:25 |
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| FIQ|n900 | ok seriously | 05:16 |
| FIQ|n900 | I've never liked microB because of random crashes, sometimes it needs to be restarted | 05:17 |
| FIQ|n900 | And it does its' job unusually bad now by simply not working *at all* ... | 05:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | it's never crashed for me | 05:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer06 | for me neither | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | and what does "not working at all" mean?` | 06:51 |
| Skry | working fine for me too | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer06 | I admit occasionally a "killall browserd" can help to free up considerable amounts of RAM, despite browserd gets immedeately restartded by dsme | 06:53 |
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| zsolt | hello!can't mount rootfs.jffs2 under debian."no space left" | 17:12 |
| zsolt | searched a lot ,didn't find any solution,just complains | 17:13 |
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| zsolt | i hope,that somebody can help me here | 17:14 |
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| Skry | should maemo have hw accelerated mp3 decoding? | 17:48 |
| kerio | Skry: eeeh | 17:48 |
| kerio | it definetely could, the hardware is there | 17:48 |
| kerio | but i think that the dsp is only used for videos, by default, in mafw | 17:49 |
| Skry | I mean, just checking /lib/dsp and there are nothing for audio | 17:49 |
| Skry | gst-dsp has at least aac :) | 17:50 |
| Skry | not that it matters, just asking for curiosity | 17:50 |
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| kerio | Skry: a couple of dudes tried to figure that out | 17:55 |
| kerio | it turns out that decoding mp3s with the dsp would be about the same power draw as decoding them with the cpu | 17:56 |
| Skry | yeah, I suspected the same | 17:57 |
| kerio | note that it should still be done, imo | 17:57 |
| kerio | so you can use the cpu for something else if you want to | 17:57 |
| Skry | agree with that one. hmm, gst-dsp does aac and gstreamer-ti does both aac and mp3. | 17:59 |
| Skry | oh god do i have to download yet another TI sdk :S | 18:00 |
| kerio | hahahaha | 18:01 |
| kerio | Skry: freemangordon probably knows about this | 18:01 |
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| Skry | yeah he does. i already have latest gst-dsp and tidsp-binaries working on other os without any fuzz, was just wondering if mpeg1 audio decoding existed in maemo. | 18:05 |
| kerio | for instance, in my case i really, really want either the mp3 decoding or the a2dp encoding done by the dsp | 18:07 |
| Skry | didn't a2dp have the option for supporting mpeg4 audio? can't remember but if so, then it can be done already | 18:09 |
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| Skry | if gst-dsp has aac encoding | 18:10 |
| kerio | also, i wonder | 18:10 |
| kerio | can i preencode my songs? | 18:10 |
| kerio | it would be *neat* | 18:11 |
| Skry | nah, decoding only :\ | 18:11 |
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| kerio | make it happen, #maemo | 18:11 |
| kerio | i want cpuless songs-to-btheadset | 18:12 |
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| Skry | guess i'll take a look at that gstreamer-ti if it has some uber secret mpeg1 audio decoding bits | 18:18 |
| Skry | hopefully it is not such an abomination as their graphics sdk | 18:18 |
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| Skry | first it makes you laugh, then it makes you cry | 18:19 |
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| rlinfati | Pali, Hi, i'm flashing my n900 with libusb-sniff, i flash only mmc, only root, root+mmc.... you need another log ? | 18:44 |
| Pali | rlinfati, now I implemented initial flashing support, but logs are still usefull for me :-) | 18:45 |
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| Pali | mmc flashing is done via mk II protocol (not nolo) and I did not looked at it yet | 18:46 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: ping | 18:48 |
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| ludens | how risky is it to switch to the linux kernel for power users? | 19:06 |
| ludens | i just want to be able to run mobile hotspot | 19:06 |
| Sicelo | wasn't a risk for me. risk comes with what you do with it afterwards | 19:06 |
| ludens | yeah i dont plan to do anything with it that im aware of | 19:07 |
| ludens | i just have a need for mobile hotspot | 19:07 |
| Sicelo | then you'll be ok | 19:10 |
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| ludens | wow.. took five attempts before it booted | 19:32 |
| ludens | seems fine though | 19:32 |
| ludens | i guess i should avoid looking into all the things i could do now... | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | though you may want to turn SmartReflex on | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | vi__: pong | 19:35 |
| ludens | freemangordon: what is that | 19:36 |
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| freemangordon | ludens: http://wiki.maemo.org/Smartreflex | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd feel reluctant to suggest SmartReflex to anybody, without even any proper evaluation of the expected benefit, compared to the very real concerns about Nokia telling it's not stable on hw level | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: there was an evaluation (burried somewhere on TMO) | 19:44 |
| freemangordon | Nokia has never said it is unstable at HW level afaik, if you have some reference, please share it | 19:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | they pulled it in the kernel | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | also, there was a silicon errata on the part | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, "Nokia" said exactly that, back in times where titan (iirc) found the SR sysnodes, and we asked here why they aren't used. Nokia even eliminated them in later kernels (again iirc, with PR1.1 kernel) | 19:47 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: for SmartReflex? | 19:48 |
| freemangordon | do yo have some link | 19:48 |
| freemangordon | *you | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check last four weeks chanlog, I posted something with comment "in my book that reads like 'don't use SR', or at least it could" | 19:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and there might also be circuit errata, not everything got screwed by TI | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 19:50 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: come on, I explained a couple of times why SR in stock kernel is beoken. | 19:50 |
| freemangordon | *broken | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you explained why it's definitely broken. You *didn't* explain that's the root and only cause it got deprecated by Nokia | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe it's other way round? Nokia simply didn't care about those efuse settings or whatever it was, since they already knew it been fsckd up on several other levels | 19:52 |
| freemangordon | Didn't I? fcked efuse calibrations are not the root cause SR to be unusable if using default algotithm? | 19:52 |
| freemangordon | ANd you are well aware Nokia never cared that much for n900 | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not even been investigated yet if every power domain is connected to the LDO it is meant to be | 19:53 |
| freemangordon | USB host mode is a good example of that | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're spinning away | 19:53 |
| freemangordon | we've been told every now and then it is impossible | 19:53 |
| freemangordon | no, whY? | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | thumb2 is another good example | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't get it, eh? | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I refuse to get anything in IIRC basis | 19:55 |
| freemangordon | *on | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for thumb we have a pretty clear SiErr report, and there's little reason to assume there's any other good rationale why thumb wasn't usable (except oooops compiler...) | 19:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: remember my conversations with mra? | 19:55 |
| freemangordon | "conversations" even | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for SR you found *some* "broken" part, that definitely isn't proven to be the root cause | 19:56 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and you fail to provide any evidence something is broken besides "IIRC Nokia said" | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if we all remember correctly | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for me that's enough | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not accused here | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | but not for me, I need something written by either TI or Nokia | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so go search for it, maybe you find it in 2008 chanlogs | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: noo, it is you who insist "there must be something else" no me | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | *not | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | so, go search for it | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I already told you I posted URL and quote of some SiErr I found some few weeks ago | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | and I look at them, we're not hit AIUI | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | looked even | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the difference is I *know* there's something else, particularly that satement from "those who should know" | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: come on, those who know told us USB HM is impossible, thumb2 is impossible, etc | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | I don;t need any other evidence that tyhose who know in practice just don't care | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and honestly I couldn't bother less to defend my memory against your silly accusations | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | silly? | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | ok | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, silly. If "iirc" is enough for you to start arguing and accusing me | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I m not accusing you, sorry if I sound offensive | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | go bitch at somebody else | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | sure | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while I can't see the monster benefit of hw driven LDO config over sw controlled LDO config which is working since beginning of N900 | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably something like 300 machine cycles "wasted" on every C-state change | 20:04 |
| freemangordon | then you have NFC what SR is | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhu | 20:04 |
| freemangordon | SW programs LDO with a particular voltage which is guaranteed to be stable for every device/temperature/load. SR lowers that voltage to one that is stable for the current device/temperature/load | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | this voltage is usually 20-30 % lower than SW controlled. draw your conclusions on battery life | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, and what makes you think cpufreq doesn't reprogram LDOs dynamically? | 20:07 |
| freemangordon | because I know it | 20:08 |
| freemangordon | cpufreq uses OPP table and does one time programming on OPP switch | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one time? on the one time OPP is switched, or what? | 20:09 |
| freemangordon | yes, when OPP is changed voltage is changed too | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | TADAAA! | 20:09 |
| freemangordon | but voltagee remains constant as long as OPP is not changed | 20:09 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ? | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and WTF do you think can SR do better in that regard? | 20:10 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 20:10 |
| freemangordon | as long as opp switch is complete and new voltage is programmed, SR lowers that by 20-30% as I already told you | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually now it seems it's you who has NFC what's SR | 20:11 |
| freemangordon | based on temp/load/device calibrations | 20:11 |
| freemangordon | sure, I have NFC | 20:11 |
| NIN101 | Does somebody know a pdf viewer/ebook reader for fremantle with word wrapping on zoom? | 20:12 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: go read SR driver, you will get it (i hope) | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks, I already have read about SR in TPS65050 and OMAP UM | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I've read the list of ll known SiErr, and found some that sounded suspicious | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | re SR | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now I'm fed up with this non-discussion | 20:14 |
| freemangordon | the one you found would've already hit us if applicable, as the same happens when OPP is changed | 20:15 |
| freemangordon | twl is re-programmed via i2c ;) | 20:15 |
| Sc0rpius | everything that goes into the repository has to be OpenSource? | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: basically yes | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: could pdf do reformatting even in theory? AIUI the format is inherent component of pdf | 20:22 |
| NIN101 | I know(read) that some readers can do it... e.g. adobe's or the one in android... | 20:25 |
| Skry | dont know what you guys are arguing about but at least in upstream cpufreq switches freqs and voltages by opp and handles voltage control to sr which does what it should. In upstream, sr is broken for some 3430s, sr in kernel-power works rock solid and does what it should. | 20:28 |
| Skry | but not going to argue as you both know the hardware better | 20:28 |
| freemangordon | Skry: exactly the same happens in KP ( cpufreq switches freqs and voltages by opp and handles voltage control to sr which does what it should ) | 20:29 |
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| Skry | yup | 20:32 |
| Skry | my thought about this being: if it works, then it works and it has benefits so should be used. | 20:33 |
| Skry | and if it does not work, fix it :) | 20:33 |
| freemangordon | yup :D | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Skry: sorry, I have to ask about your definition of 2works" | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | is one kernel oops per day acceptable. one per week? 10% of devices not stable with it, or would 5% be tolerable? | 20:34 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: so far there was not a single report of broken SR with KP >= 50 and stock frequencies | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pfff | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aha | 20:35 |
| freemangordon | and in my book that means "it works" | 20:35 |
| Skry | but it is actually quite confusing when engineers from ti, nokia and people in general all think different about this. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, since there's no flag rising "THIS KERNEL OOPS TRIGGERED BY SR!" | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so users shrug and reboot | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you say "fine, no ticked against SR opened" | 20:36 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I am not aware of kernel oops in KP since KP50 got out. Besides bq_ thingie, but that is a different story | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ticket* | 20:37 |
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| Skry | my definition of "it works" in short is that _I_ don't get any oopses or lockups with sr and kp, and for _me_ sr improves battery life. For upstream kernel it is quite the opposite. | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and all this still doesn't yield a single evidence about supposed gigantic savings of SR over software doing exactly same | 20:39 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: come on | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the quoted 30% lower voltage on SR are bogus, since that's nothing software couldn't do as well )and probably even does) | 20:41 |
| Skry | did not say anything about gigantic | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | :not: | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: on average it should extend battery life by 10-15% | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | depends on usage pattern of course | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but this whole discussion is like "hahaha you say 'iirc', so I call you a liar until you bring me a tape record of that talk", and "WFM, so it's proven" | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | never said "hahaha" | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm out | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | and yes, I need some evidence to support your statement "there are SiErrs" | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pease stop spreading FUD, it been SpeedEvil who first said that | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and he didn't say "iirc" | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in my book that's 2 to 1 for those who know what they know, while the one person just prefers to think they're both lying or telling shit | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, lets agree to disagree and stop that fight, ok :) ? | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm not interetsed in discussions on that level | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: my level? come on | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd feel reluctant to suggest SmartReflex to anybody, without even any proper evaluation of the expected benefit, compared to the very real concerns about Nokia telling it's not stable on hw level | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stands | 20:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: test it on a couple of n900s! | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MEEE?? dream on | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it is still WFM basis, thus not enough | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn, you're exceptionally simple today, are you? evaluation savings is *totally* unrelated to friggin WFM, if done correctly | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I was talking about stability | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you were talking... about... aha | 20:50 |
| freemangordon | as if it is not stable, it makes no sense to measure the savings | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're not talking at all, you're living your bitchy mood | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | actually my mood is pretty ok ;) | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I bet. Seems it's your preferred mood anyway | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure you must love it to argue | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if there's any rationale in it ot not | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and honestly, I'm already more than fed up with it | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so for good now, cya | 20:52 |
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| Skry | oh why cant the sgx driver be reverse engineered :S | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | Skry: sgx driver is OSS :P | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who says it can't? | 21:00 |
| Skry | yeah the kernel part | 21:01 |
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| Skry | ok, i can handle those closed libraries, but there really should be working (modern) driver for xorg | 21:03 |
| freemangordon | Skry: but,but... I thought it is upstreamed. Isn't it? | 21:04 |
| freemangordon | aah, no | 21:04 |
| Skry | no, andnever will be | 21:04 |
| Skry | unless someone does some serious cleanup | 21:04 |
| freemangordon | BTW did you manage to compile it? | 21:05 |
| freemangordon | (xorg driver) | 21:05 |
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| Skry | freemangordon: xorg driver is closed | 21:06 |
| Skry | i can compile kernel drivers ok if disabling xorg support from it, yes, they are linked | 21:06 |
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| Skry | i stopped trying to compile it with x support when I started getting unknown symbols from drm kmod | 21:08 |
| zsolt | hi there.I extracted the rootfs from maemo image,tared,then untared in mmcblk0p5 modified rcS-late,uncommented fstab generation.it hangs with the maemo loader | 21:09 |
| zsolt | line | 21:09 |
| zsolt | now fstab is static | 21:09 |
| zsolt | use bootloader.didn't touch to the original fs | 21:10 |
| zsolt | need some advice please | 21:10 |
| zsolt | my goal is to boot maemo from sd card | 21:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's been accomplished before, maybe NIN101 knows details | 21:25 |
| NIN101 | dunno, never did it myself. | 21:27 |
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| NIN101 | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QH2EfTux parts of this config might help, basically you need the file system of sd card partition compiled into the kernel, not as a module... | 21:32 |
| NIN101 | and modify the comamnd line of the kernel to actually boot from sdcard then | 21:32 |
| NIN101 | (or do it by using flasher) | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, main obstacle being the fs driver | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | KP should be fine | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just make uBoot load KP image from mmcblk0pN, and pass it kernel cmdline to have rootfs also on mmcblk0pN | 21:34 |
| NIN101 | you can also modify the built-in command line when recompilng the kernel(this is what you have to do anyway) | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | keep in mind during early boot uSD is mmcblk0 and eMMc is mmcblk1. It only gets renamed later | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the nifty rationale of that probably being an option to make ROMBL load xloader/NOLO/$n1st-stage-BL from a swap-able uSD | 21:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the ugly part of it: if there's no uSD plugged in, the eMMC will become mmcblk0 even during early boot/kernel-init | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like windows drive letter hell, doesn't it? ;-P | 21:39 |
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| nox- | http://i.imgur.com/FdGXY.jpg | 21:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 21:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: why do you think zsolt needs a custom kernel? | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't uBoot boot a proper KP plus maemo5 rootfs from uSD or eMMC, just like it did (and still does?) for meego? | 21:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd probably install meego dualboot setup on uSD, then replace meego kernel by KP, and copy fremantle rootfs over meego rootfs. Then just check uBoot config file for possible differences needed in kernel cmdline parameters | 21:58 |
| NIN101 | hmm ok, didn't assume uboot wa sused | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, sounds like the easiest approach | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus keeps original NAND maemo intact | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I placed exactly this task on my ToDo some 2 years ago. Eventually it fell off the bottom end | 22:00 |
| zsolt | i installed u-boot | 22:01 |
| zsolt | thank you for help | 22:02 |
| zsolt | it is funny,i told for u-boot to boot from mmcbl0p5 and put the zImage to /boot,what happens?it boots up from nand | 22:05 |
| Skry | could you give some details about how you told u-boot to do that? | 22:07 |
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| Skry | nah, gtg | 22:09 |
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| kerio | i seriously need some kind of bluetooth remote control for the n900 :( | 22:18 |
| kerio | that is, something on my laptop that lets me do stuff with the n900 | 22:18 |
| kerio | at the very least connect to a wifi network | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, why does mine connect to WLAN automatically? ;-) | 22:19 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because you like to waste power looking for a wlan >:C | 22:20 |
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| kerio | anyway, i do realize that it's kind of a niche usecase | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | kerio: incorrect, I have mine setup to do autoconnect every 5 minutes | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I once had a QB desktop button to toggle the "connect to WLAN if available" setting | 22:22 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is accessing the desktop | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I needed that when my DSL was flaky | 22:22 |
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| kerio | the usecase is this: i'm pooping, and my phone is in my room | 22:22 |
| kerio | and it's not connected to the wifi network | 22:23 |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 22:23 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because i don't have autoconnect on | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, why? | 22:23 |
| kerio | because battery! :( | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually being connected to WLAN is pretty lightweight | 22:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so it seems your problem isn't to make N900 connect to WLAN at arbitrary time by user interaction, but rather make it connect to WLAN every time you enter the room | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, come home | 22:25 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: actually, i know what i want | 22:28 |
| kerio | ssh-through-bluetooth | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, if you're not interested in alternatives, go and set it up | 22:29 |
| kerio | i wonder how | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PAN | 22:29 |
| kerio | last i heard, bluez was a giant mess | 22:29 |
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| kerio | nah, PAN on fremantle is weird as fuck | 22:30 |
| kerio | i need a serial connection, bluetooth allows that | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you asked for it. Explicitly | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I'd be surprised to find ssh work via plain serial | 22:31 |
| kerio | i said ssh-over-bluetooth, not ssh-over-tcp-over-bluetooth :) | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's rather network based, no? | 22:31 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are you kidding? ssh over pipes is insanely useful | 22:31 |
| kerio | ProxyCommand | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm, and how you're handling the URLs etc, the server name based auth | 22:32 |
| kerio | hmm, is there a command (apart for screen) to get input-output to and from a device file? | 22:32 |
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| kerio | no, known_hosts isn't checked if you use ProxyCommand | 22:33 |
| kerio | because the hostname could be something weird | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too weird for me | 22:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | get WLAN working. If you for F*s sake can't do that, get PAN working | 22:34 |
| kerio | the ssh client has an option to specify an executable to use as a proxy pipe | 22:34 |
| kerio | input and output eventually have to reach a ssh server, in some way | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you can't even do that, send a semaphore file to some well known location on N900, via BT OBEX | 22:34 |
| kerio | oooh, that's simple | 22:35 |
| kerio | neat | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you said you're not interested in alternatives | 22:35 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is there a command to do bidirectional transfers with a device file? | 22:35 |
| kerio | something like "screen /dev/ttywhatever" but that only does simple piping | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, isn't that called minicom? | 22:36 |
| kerio | minicom is interactive too | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat foo >/dev/bar | 22:36 |
| kerio | that's one-way only, though | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cat /dev/bar& | 22:37 |
| kerio | heh | 22:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno what you're planning to do | 22:38 |
| kerio | i need the stdin of the command to be sent to the device file, and the output read from the device file to be outputted in the stdout | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what's the use of that? | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | something like >> date|cat|cat|cat <<? | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's stdout of any such tool different from piping the original device somewhere? | 22:40 |
| kerio | ssh wants an executable | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for good reason | 22:42 |
| kerio | oh nvm, you actually need to set the device file up in some way if it's a tty | 22:42 |
| kerio | anyway, i only need this on my computer, on the n900's side its' just *getty that calls sshd -i or nc localhost 22 | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't you think getting PAN to purpose would be more sane? | 22:43 |
| kerio | nope! | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 22:44 |
| kerio | hmm, what's a good time for the automatic WLAN search? is 5 minutes too short? | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might win some funny award with this solution, if you ever make it work | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I've put it to 10min | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | set it to* | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | way smarter of course would be to set it to 'off' and only trigger an immediate scan or set autoscan to 5min when you see some special trigger. GPS is probably no brilliant idea, but a certain cell-id on cellmo might work nicely | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | your beloved SMSCB opername widget already dumps cellids to the log files | 22:48 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: a special trigger such as my laptop opening a bluetooth connection of some sorts, maybe... | 22:48 |
| kerio | i'm still going through with this idea of ssh-over-serial, btw | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "opening BT connection"? why not just trigger on associate | 22:49 |
| kerio | yeah, that one | 22:49 |
| kerio | (although os x doesn't have a way to associate without doing something with the association) | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a tool on desktops that locks screens automatically when you leave BT range with your paired device, and unlocks when you come back | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | standard bluez afaik | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably could plumb sth together on maemo that does pretty much the same | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, association is a bilateral thing | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, connection | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and loss thereof | 22:52 |
| kerio | agetty -8 -i -n -L -l "/usr/bin/nc localhost 22" /dev/ttyB0 | 22:52 |
| kerio | or something like this :D | 22:53 |
| kerio | so... /etc/bluetooth/main.conf looks unused | 22:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be honestly surprised to see this work | 22:59 |
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| kerio | hrmpf, i can't find documentation on how to open a serial bluetooth port | 23:18 |
| freemangordon | kerio: wait a minute, I wrote something an year ago, I think it will help | 23:18 |
| kerio | freemangordon: i need the "server" part | 23:19 |
| Sicelo | you are looking for "rfcomm", i think | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | kerio: don't know what do you mean by "server part",but you need to call rfcomm | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: aah, you beat me :D | 23:22 |
| kerio | freemangordon: i meant that i want the n900 to wait for a serial connection from my laptop | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | kerio: though if you wish I can give you my btsettingsqt :D | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | lemme try if it still works (and how) | 23:23 |
| kerio | oh ok, rfcomm listen | 23:23 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: it is still ok, bt helper in settings (if you want it) | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | you can connect com port with it | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | it creates serial device in /dev and goodies like that | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | kerio: http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=a957243826 | 23:29 |
| kerio | ty | 23:29 |
| kerio | hrmpf, "serial port" connects to the bluetooth DUN interface | 23:31 |
| freemangordon | you have DUN on your laptop? | 23:31 |
| freemangordon | service that is | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: DUN is a trick | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik, it's just using pnatd to pipe between serial BT and cellmo | 23:33 |
| freemangordon | kerio: you tried rfcomm or my app? | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | done in some scriptie or event file | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you probably want to replace pnatd by your cxontraption to interface to ssh | 23:34 |
| kerio | freemangordon: not yet | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | kerio: try it, it connects the correct thing (IIRC) | 23:34 |
| freemangordon | not DUN | 23:34 |
| kerio | hm | 23:35 |
| kerio | well apparently os x doesn't support RFCOMM out of the box anyway | 23:35 |
| kerio | so first i need a RFCOMM utility | 23:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | less /etc/event.d/phonet-at | 23:36 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hmm, that's the gadget serial though | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 23:37 |
| kerio | i see | 23:38 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I just made a connection between /dev/rfcomm0 and COM4 on my PC | 23:38 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's /etc/event.d/bluetooth-dun :) | 23:38 |
| kerio | and it's about as simple | 23:38 |
| kerio | i need to register a SPP instead of a DUN, but it's really the same thing | 23:38 |
| kerio | tyvm y'all | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | hmm, maybe i should finish that application some day | 23:45 |
| Skry | no, you should start coding me sgx xorg driver first ;> | 23:46 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 23:46 |
| freemangordon | no, you should boot maemo5 with kernel 3.6 first :D | 23:47 |
| Skry | actually I'm about to try :) | 23:47 |
| freemangordon | well, 3.2 will do the job too :P | 23:47 |
| freemangordon | Skry: ask Pali for help, he has some bits needed to do that | 23:47 |
| vi_ | Skry: you said thumb2+hardfp compiled stuff will run on n900 in a chroot? | 23:48 |
| freemangordon | vi_: pong | 23:48 |
| Skry | vi_: yes | 23:48 |
| freemangordon | (very late one) | 23:48 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: hey. | 23:48 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: I kludged through my issue. | 23:48 |
| vi_ | thankyou anyways. | 23:48 |
| freemangordon | Skry: only with KP or kernel-cssu | 23:49 |
| Skry | yep | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | because of thumb | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | vi_: ok | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | np | 23:49 |
| vi_ | Skry: does strait up debian have a hardfp+thumb2 branch? | 23:49 |
| Pali | Skry: I have patch for meego (2.6.37+) kernel which add maemo5 specific interface | 23:49 |
| Pali | but not everything | 23:50 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hi | 23:50 |
| Pali | hi | 23:50 |
| freemangordon | I still wait an answer re libbmeipc :P | 23:50 |
| freemangordon | why you don;t like my code :D | 23:50 |
| Skry | vi_: I dont know, they had it in planning state though at some point, if memory serves | 23:51 |
| Pali | for unknown reason qemu cannot use emmc | 23:51 |
| Pali | so I was not able to test that patch in qemu | 23:51 |
| Skry | Pali: could you give me a link for that patch? | 23:51 |
| Pali | yes, wait | 23:51 |
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| vi_ | neon optimised bzip2 would be sweet. | 23:52 |
| Pali | Skry: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/meego_n900_kernel_fremantle.patch | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | vi_: who uses it? apt? | 23:52 |
| Pali | patch is for meego n900 kernel (from gitorious branch) | 23:52 |
| Skry | freemangordon: but seriously, someone should start doing that xorg driver, I think one could get xf86-video-modesetting and start including sgx stuff ala fbdev-sgx | 23:53 |
| Skry | Pali: thanks | 23:53 |
| freemangordon | Skry: sure, but that won;t be me :P | 23:53 |
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| vi_ | freemangordon: yup. | 23:53 |
| Skry | freemangordon: think about all the fame and glory! :P | 23:53 |
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| freemangordon | Skry: I am already fed with fame and glory :D:D:D | 23:54 |
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| Pali | Skry: look here: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/meego_n900_kernel_fremantle.sh | 23:55 |
| Skry | it's beginning to look like i have to start learning and do it myself. maybe i can get it to display hello world through sgx in few years or so | 23:55 |
| Skry | Pali: sure | 23:55 |
| kerio | meh, bluetooth is a fucking mess | 23:55 |
| Pali | I used these commands in qemu for removing some specified parts | 23:55 |
| Pali | disabling bme & lowmem | 23:56 |
| vi_ | kerio: yup. | 23:56 |
| vi_ | there is a chilli sauce thief at my work. | 23:57 |
| vi_ | he steals my chilli sauce from the fridge. | 23:57 |
| vi_ | and uses it up. | 23:58 |
| vi_ | That motherfucker is going to pay. | 23:58 |
| vi_ | I just put some 'daves insanity sauce' in a cholula bottle. I am going to leave it in the fridge at work. | 23:59 |
| kerio | freemangordon: hmm, where does that btsettings come from? | 23:59 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I wrote it | 23:59 |
| vi_ | DIS was banned from the world chilli sauce convention because it was too spicy. | 23:59 |
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