IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-09-23

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SkryDocScrutinizer05: true, somewhat offtopic indeed but it's nice to have some at times00:12
DocScrutinizer05((<dafox> both are 'cheating' the network operators))  No, actually I think they're cheating on their customers, by making them think those could get something for free while they had to pay for same service with their network-operator aka provider aka carrier00:14
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DocScrutinizer05in fact the custumer pays as well when using whatsap etc, just those cheaters don't admit that. You however can calculate what's the real monetary value of the info/data those cheaters collect about their customers00:16
DocScrutinizer05and it usually turns out tthat in the end you (the customer) pay *more* with those cheaters than you'd do with your network provider00:17
befordthe server is only free 1 year, after that is 0.99 /year i believe00:25
befordnot sure how much can they make with that00:26
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: just get Google Apps for Businesses. $50 a year, and no scanning.00:27
teotwakiYou can use a @gmail address or @whateverdomainyou'retheproudownerof.com00:27
teotwakiAnd regarding WhatsApp, they just put stupid messaging in a nice wrapper, and marketed it to the young hip crowds. "Free messaging, images and file transfer for you and your buddies"00:29
teotwakiThey were smart, nothing more to it.00:29
teotwakiMost of us here know there's no such thing as a free lunch. Let those who can convince people of that fact make the money they want.00:30
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: probably you're right, I should listen to FZ:"SON OF ORANGE COUNTY" and not try to save the world00:33
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teotwakiYou won't save the world by bitching and moaning in a dead IRC channel.00:36
teotwakiFace it, the people who are still here already have a vested interest in Free Software---it's like preaching to the choir.00:36
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dafoxpretty much every 'free' service does that, tries to create a 'profile' and target ads or sell it to someone else, that's just the way it is nowadays. Regardless it would be nice to communicate with friends and family using the same 'app', if possible. However if it's only free for one year I don't know if it's really worth the effort00:42
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DocScrutinizer05~chaninfo01:59
infobot125/125 channels, 4831 users, 3444 unique: #debian/1162, #kde/353, #maemo/258, #gsoc/200, #asterisk/176, #meego/174, #harmattan/173, #wowuidev/153, #oe/129, #wowace/125, #wowhead/101, #webos-internals/100, #arm-netbook/94, #openmoko/87, #utah/70, #openmoko-cdevel/62, #edev/61, #uclibc/61, #n9/59, #bzflag/56, #curseforge/52, #asterisk-dev/51, #maemo-ssu/51, #qi-hardware/51, #tomcat/50, #htc-linux/49, #sc2mapster/47, #cubieboard/40, #/38, ...01:59
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DocScrutinizer05rank #3 after #debian and #kde I wouldn't call "dead channel"01:59
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teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: those are channels with infobot on it02:07
teotwakijust #freenode and #ubuntu make us 5th place, DocScrutinizer05.02:08
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DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: I'm aware this is a infobot-POV. On freenode at large, #maemo is on rank #79 in a list of 12108 channels02:54
dafoxwell, what percentage of n900 owners is that then?02:55
DocScrutinizer059802:59
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dafoxrather high... I'd think there more more users left... :(03:03
nox-98% sounds unlikely yeah...03:04
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DocScrutinizer05nfc what we're talking about03:09
nox-<dafox> well, what percentage of n900 owners is that then?03:09
DocScrutinizer05doesn't get much clearer on repeating it03:10
nox-i guess he was wondering how many n900 users are in here...03:11
DocScrutinizer05percentage of N900 users in #maemo? percentage of N900 users in freenode? percentage of freenode users in group of N900 users?03:11
nox-how many of the remaining users that is03:11
dafoxwithout any real way of measuring that, my hope would be 'far less than 1%'. Just because there are just a few users on IRC doesn't mean that nobody is using n900 anymore03:12
befordI still use it as my main phone03:12
nox-percentage of #maemo users in total number of remaining n900 users03:12
DocScrutinizer05<1%03:13
nox-yeah03:13
DocScrutinizer05even council wasn't on IRC until I suggested to them03:14
DocScrutinizer05some didn't even bother after I suggested03:15
dafoxexactly. I don't think that kind of channel ranking is in anyway indicative of 'being dead'03:15
DocScrutinizer05I'd even think tmo isn't used by more than 10% of N900 users03:15
DocScrutinizer05eh? teotwaki talked about a "dead channel" iirc03:16
dafoxwell, if they're anything like me there may be many 'read only' users :)03:16
DocScrutinizer05if anything, we might discuss how relevant IRC activity is for a living community03:17
dafoxI thought he meant to imply maemo/n900 was 'dead' :s03:18
nox-it only smells funny :P03:18
DocScrutinizer05hehehe03:18
DocScrutinizer05highly evolved perverted tango03:19
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* nox- just wonders what will happen once nokia drops the websites...03:20
DocScrutinizer05Nixon will bring them back ;-P03:21
nox-:P03:21
teotwakiplease take your shoddy language parsing abilities elsewhere. I made it very clear that I was taking about this very specific channel.03:24
DocScrutinizer05 This is Be-Bop, Even though you think it doesn't sound like that.03:24
teotwakiIf you read anything more than that into my statement: piss off, go troll somewhere else.03:25
DocScrutinizer05hey, chill!03:26
DocScrutinizer05:-)03:26
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* teotwaki lights a cigarette and throws one at anyone who asks.03:28
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DocScrutinizer05it seems in my company we are 3 smokers of >50 employees :-/03:32
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: in mine, it's roughly 40 smokers for 50 employees.03:32
DocScrutinizer05well, it's a bit strange there in general. We also seem to have no coffee, nor any other supply for beverage03:35
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gomiamhi again...03:35
DocScrutinizer05hi03:35
gomiamI'm trying to flash my n900 through the software updater but it complains it is connected through a hub even though it is connected directly to the computer03:35
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gomiamhow can I tell the software updater not to pay attention to that?03:36
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DocScrutinizer05gomiam: several PC mainboards have on board USB hubs03:36
gomiamI guess that is the problem, but I can't really open up my laptop :)03:37
DocScrutinizer05and actaully I have no clue about sw updater. I recommend to user flasher-3.503:37
teotwakigomiam: have you tried different USB ports?03:37
gomiamteotwaki: all 4 of them03:37
teotwakiwhat about the fifth/03:37
gomiameven the USB 3.0 one03:37
teotwakiThe one behind the battery?03:37
gomiamnot in this laptop, sorry03:37
teotwakiHe has a brain.03:38
teotwaki:)03:38
DocScrutinizer05use flasher03:38
gomiamXDD03:38
gomiamteotwaki: thanks... I guess :P03:38
gomiamok, I'll try flasher.03:38
gomiamsince I already downloaded the files some time ago03:38
teotwakiLast time I pulled that one on #ubuntu, the guy disconnected... Apparently he wasn't connected to a socket.03:38
DocScrutinizer05~flashing03:39
infobotwell, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware03:39
gomiamXDDDDDD03:39
gomiamteotwaki: perhaps he had the Ethernet connector on the back of the laptop03:39
teotwakioh man, don't talk about that03:39
gomiamcheck if you do ;)03:40
teotwakicouple weeks ago, I borrowed a wireless keyboard/mouse from a colleague's desktop (after hours) for my raspberry03:40
teotwakionce I was done with it, I put the USB dongle back into the little placeholder for it, next to the keyboard's batteries.03:41
teotwakiWhen I got back the next morning, there was an email to the whole company, from the chick's manager (the chick I took the keyboard from), and the office manager03:41
teotwakiBoth saying something along the lines of "Someone stole the dongle, return it immediately or face the consequences"03:42
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gomiamXDDD03:42
DocScrutinizer05haha03:42
teotwakiI went and told them it was in the storage thingie.03:42
gomiamwell, I've been known to wonder where the hell the dongle was storeds at with some wireless mice03:42
teotwakiThe IT guy (who happened to be there) looked at it, went "Oh, I didn't know they provided such a little hiding spot"03:43
gomiame.g., it was hidden below the battery.03:43
gomiamteotwaki: my reaction, exactly.03:43
teotwakiAnd then he tried to plug it in. It didn't work.03:43
gomiamnow that's stranger03:43
teotwakiI told him "You can't really put a USB connector in the Ethernet port. They're not electrically compatible"03:43
teotwakiHe's the CEO's brother. Can you guess why he's the head of IT?03:44
DocScrutinizer05I guess he didn't even blush03:44
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gomiamI have had that problem too... usually when trying to reach the back of a computer by touch alone. Then again, I usually check the hole isn't too big :D03:47
teotwakiPro-tip: if you can stuff your pinkie in it, it's not a USB port.03:48
teotwakiIf you can't stuff your pinkie in an ethernet port, you're obese: get a bicycle.03:49
DocScrutinizer05actually I just first time noticed they are almost same size03:49
DocScrutinizer05(USB and RJ45 that is)03:50
DocScrutinizer05fits surprisingly well03:51
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gomiamok, flashing... failed, yay!04:05
gomiamlet's see whether it works, anyway04:06
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gomiamok, first message is telephony functions disabled. But it's not that surprising because I took the SIM card off.04:11
GeneralAntillesDoes anybody remember that website with EULA summaries that people were tweeting about a month or two ago?04:12
gomiamGeneralAntilles: ┬┐google?04:14
gomiamok, language selection ok04:16
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gomiamok, flash successful. Time to check the SIM.04:17
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gomiambooting...04:19
gomiamand no message about telephony failure yet...04:19
gomiamand no dice: telephony functions disabled. Damn04:20
gomiamok, bed time. I'll try it again tomorrow04:25
gomiambye and thanks04:25
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FIQ|n900ok seriously05:16
FIQ|n900I've never liked microB because of random crashes, sometimes it needs to be restarted05:17
FIQ|n900And it does its' job unusually bad now by simply not working *at all* ...05:17
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SpeedEvilit's never crashed for me05:19
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DocScrutinizer06for me neither06:50
DocScrutinizer06and what does "not working at all" mean?`06:51
Skryworking fine for me too06:51
DocScrutinizer06I admit occasionally a "killall browserd" can help to free up considerable amounts of RAM, despite browserd gets immedeately restartded by dsme06:53
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zsolthello!can't mount rootfs.jffs2 under debian."no space left"17:12
zsoltsearched a lot ,didn't find any solution,just complains17:13
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zsolti hope,that somebody can help me here17:14
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Skryshould maemo have hw accelerated mp3 decoding?17:48
kerioSkry: eeeh17:48
kerioit definetely could, the hardware is there17:48
keriobut i think that the dsp is only used for videos, by default, in mafw17:49
SkryI mean, just checking /lib/dsp and there are nothing for audio17:49
Skrygst-dsp has at least aac :)17:50
Skrynot that it matters, just asking for curiosity17:50
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kerioSkry: a couple of dudes tried to figure that out17:55
kerioit turns out that decoding mp3s with the dsp would be about the same power draw as decoding them with the cpu17:56
Skryyeah, I suspected the same17:57
kerionote that it should still be done, imo17:57
kerioso you can use the cpu for something else if you want to17:57
Skryagree with that one. hmm, gst-dsp does aac and gstreamer-ti does both aac and mp3.17:59
Skryoh god do i have to download yet another TI sdk :S18:00
keriohahahaha18:01
kerioSkry: freemangordon probably knows about this18:01
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Skryyeah he does. i already have latest gst-dsp and tidsp-binaries working on other os without any fuzz, was just wondering if mpeg1 audio decoding existed in maemo.18:05
keriofor instance, in my case i really, really want either the mp3 decoding or the a2dp encoding done by the dsp18:07
Skrydidn't a2dp have the option for supporting mpeg4 audio? can't remember but if so, then it can be done already18:09
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Skryif gst-dsp has aac encoding18:10
kerioalso, i wonder18:10
keriocan i preencode my songs?18:10
kerioit would be *neat*18:11
Skrynah, decoding only :\18:11
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keriomake it happen, #maemo18:11
kerioi want cpuless songs-to-btheadset18:12
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Skryguess i'll take a look at that gstreamer-ti if it has some uber secret mpeg1 audio decoding bits18:18
Skryhopefully it is not such an abomination as their graphics sdk18:18
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Skryfirst it makes you laugh, then it makes you cry18:19
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rlinfatiPali, Hi, i'm flashing my n900 with libusb-sniff, i flash only mmc, only root,  root+mmc.... you need another log ?18:44
Palirlinfati, now I implemented initial flashing support, but logs are still usefull for me :-)18:45
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Palimmc flashing is done via mk II protocol (not nolo) and I did not looked at it yet18:46
vi_freemangordon: ping18:48
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ludenshow risky is it to switch to the linux kernel for power users?19:06
ludensi just want to be able to run mobile hotspot19:06
Sicelowasn't a risk for me. risk comes with what you do with it afterwards19:06
ludensyeah i dont plan to do anything with it that im aware of19:07
ludensi just have a need for mobile hotspot19:07
Sicelothen you'll be ok19:10
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ludenswow.. took five attempts before it booted19:32
ludensseems fine though19:32
ludensi guess i should avoid looking into all the things i could do now...19:34
freemangordonhehe19:34
freemangordonthough you may want to turn SmartReflex on19:34
freemangordonvi__: pong19:35
ludensfreemangordon: what is that19:36
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freemangordonludens: http://wiki.maemo.org/Smartreflex19:38
DocScrutinizer05I'd feel reluctant to suggest SmartReflex to anybody, without even any proper evaluation of the expected benefit, compared to the very real concerns about Nokia telling it's not stable on hw level19:43
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: there was an evaluation (burried somewhere on TMO)19:44
freemangordonNokia has never said it is unstable at HW level afaik, if you have some reference, please share it19:45
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SpeedEvilthey pulled it in the kernel19:47
SpeedEvilalso, there was a silicon errata on the part19:47
DocScrutinizer05well, "Nokia" said exactly that, back in times where titan (iirc) found the SR sysnodes, and we asked here why they aren't used. Nokia even eliminated them in later kernels (again iirc, with PR1.1 kernel)19:47
freemangordonSpeedEvil: for SmartReflex?19:48
freemangordondo yo have some link19:48
freemangordon*you19:48
DocScrutinizer05check last four weeks chanlog, I posted something with comment "in my book that reads like 'don't use SR', or at least it could"19:49
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DocScrutinizer05and there might also be circuit errata, not everything got screwed by TI19:50
DocScrutinizer05;-)19:50
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: come on, I explained a couple of times why SR in stock kernel is beoken.19:50
freemangordon*broken19:50
DocScrutinizer05you explained why it's definitely broken. You *didn't* explain that's the root and only cause it got deprecated by Nokia19:51
DocScrutinizer05maybe it's other way round? Nokia simply didn't care about those efuse settings or whatever it was, since they already knew it been fsckd up on several other levels19:52
freemangordonDidn't I? fcked efuse calibrations are not the root cause SR to be unusable if using default algotithm?19:52
freemangordonANd you are well aware Nokia never cared that much for n90019:53
DocScrutinizer05it's not even been investigated yet if every power domain is connected to the LDO it is meant to be19:53
freemangordonUSB host mode is a good example of that19:53
DocScrutinizer05you're spinning away19:53
freemangordonwe've been told every now and then it is impossible19:53
freemangordonno, whY?19:54
freemangordonthumb2 is another good example19:54
DocScrutinizer05you don't get it, eh?19:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I refuse to get anything in IIRC basis19:55
freemangordon*on19:55
DocScrutinizer05for thumb we have a pretty clear SiErr report, and there's little reason to assume there's any other good rationale why thumb wasn't usable (except oooops compiler...)19:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: remember my conversations with mra?19:55
freemangordon"conversations" even19:56
DocScrutinizer05for SR you found *some* "broken" part, that definitely isn't proven to be the root cause19:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: and you fail to provide any evidence something is broken besides "IIRC Nokia said"19:56
DocScrutinizer05if we all remember correctly19:57
DocScrutinizer05and for me that's enough19:57
DocScrutinizer05I'm not accused here19:57
freemangordonbut not for me, I need something written by either TI or Nokia19:58
DocScrutinizer05so go search for it, maybe you find it in 2008 chanlogs19:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: noo, it is you who insist "there must be something else" no me19:58
freemangordon*not19:58
freemangordonso, go search for it19:58
DocScrutinizer05and I already told you I posted URL and quote of some SiErr I found some few weeks ago19:59
freemangordonand I look at them, we're not hit AIUI19:59
freemangordonlooked even19:59
DocScrutinizer05the difference is I *know* there's something else, particularly that satement from "those who should know"19:59
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: come on, those who know told us USB HM is impossible, thumb2 is impossible, etc20:00
freemangordonI don;t need any other evidence that tyhose who know in practice just don't care20:00
DocScrutinizer05and honestly I couldn't bother less to defend my memory against your silly accusations20:00
freemangordonsilly?20:01
freemangordonok20:01
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DocScrutinizer05yes, silly. If "iirc" is enough for you to start arguing and accusing me20:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I m not accusing you, sorry if I sound offensive20:01
DocScrutinizer05go bitch at somebody else20:01
freemangordonsure20:02
DocScrutinizer05while I can't see the monster benefit of hw driven LDO config over sw controlled LDO config which is working since beginning of N90020:03
DocScrutinizer05probably something like 300 machine cycles "wasted" on every C-state change20:04
freemangordonthen you have NFC what SR is20:04
DocScrutinizer05uhu20:04
freemangordonSW programs LDO with a particular voltage which is guaranteed to be stable for every device/temperature/load. SR lowers that voltage to one that is stable for the current device/temperature/load20:06
freemangordonthis voltage is usually 20-30 % lower than SW controlled. draw your conclusions on battery life20:07
DocScrutinizer05mhm, and what makes you think cpufreq doesn't reprogram LDOs dynamically?20:07
freemangordonbecause I know it20:08
freemangordoncpufreq uses OPP table and does one time programming on OPP switch20:08
DocScrutinizer05one time? on the one time OPP is switched, or what?20:09
freemangordonyes, when OPP is changed voltage is changed too20:09
DocScrutinizer05TADAAA!20:09
freemangordonbut voltagee remains constant as long as OPP is not changed20:09
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ?20:10
DocScrutinizer05and WTF do you think can SR do better in that regard?20:10
freemangordonhehe20:10
freemangordonas long as opp switch is complete and new voltage is programmed, SR lowers that by 20-30% as I already told you20:11
DocScrutinizer05actually now it seems it's you who has NFC what's SR20:11
freemangordonbased on temp/load/device calibrations20:11
freemangordonsure, I have NFC20:11
NIN101Does somebody know a pdf viewer/ebook reader for fremantle with word wrapping on zoom?20:12
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: go read SR driver, you will get it (i hope)20:12
DocScrutinizer05thanks, I already have read about SR in TPS65050 and OMAP UM20:12
DocScrutinizer05and I've read the list of ll known SiErr, and found some that sounded suspicious20:14
DocScrutinizer05re SR20:14
DocScrutinizer05and now I'm fed up with this non-discussion20:14
freemangordonthe one you found would've already hit us if applicable, as the same happens when OPP is changed20:15
freemangordontwl is re-programmed via i2c ;)20:15
Sc0rpiuseverything that goes into the repository has to be OpenSource?20:18
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: basically yes20:20
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DocScrutinizer05NIN101: could pdf do reformatting even in theory? AIUI the format is inherent component of pdf20:22
NIN101I know(read) that some readers can do it... e.g. adobe's or the one in android...20:25
Skrydont know what you guys are arguing about but at least in upstream cpufreq switches freqs and voltages by opp and handles voltage control to sr which does what it should. In upstream, sr is broken for some 3430s, sr in kernel-power works rock solid and does what it should.20:28
Skrybut not going to argue as you both know the hardware better20:28
freemangordonSkry: exactly the same happens in KP ( cpufreq switches freqs and voltages by opp and handles voltage control to sr which does what it should )20:29
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Skryyup20:32
Skrymy thought about this being: if it works, then it works and it has benefits so should be used.20:33
Skryand if it does not work, fix it :)20:33
freemangordonyup :D20:33
DocScrutinizer05Skry: sorry, I have to ask about your definition of 2works"20:33
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DocScrutinizer05is one kernel oops per day acceptable. one per week? 10% of devices not stable with it, or would 5% be tolerable?20:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: so far there was not a single report of broken SR with KP >= 50 and stock frequencies20:35
DocScrutinizer05pfff20:35
DocScrutinizer05aha20:35
freemangordonand in my book that means "it works"20:35
Skrybut it is actually quite confusing when engineers from ti, nokia and people in general all think different about this.20:36
DocScrutinizer05sure, since there's no flag rising "THIS KERNEL OOPS TRIGGERED BY SR!"20:36
DocScrutinizer05so users shrug and reboot20:36
DocScrutinizer05and you say "fine, no ticked against SR opened"20:36
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I am not aware of kernel oops in KP since KP50 got out. Besides bq_ thingie, but that is a different story20:37
DocScrutinizer05ticket*20:37
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Skrymy definition of "it works" in short is that _I_ don't get any oopses or lockups with sr and kp, and for _me_ sr improves battery life. For upstream kernel it is quite the opposite.20:39
DocScrutinizer05and all this still doesn't yield a single evidence about supposed gigantic savings of SR over software doing exactly same20:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: come on20:41
DocScrutinizer05the quoted 30% lower voltage on SR are bogus, since that's nothing software couldn't do as well )and probably even does)20:41
Skrydid not say anything about gigantic20:41
freemangordon:not:20:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: on average it should extend battery life by 10-15%20:42
freemangordondepends on usage pattern of course20:42
DocScrutinizer05but this whole discussion is like "hahaha you say 'iirc', so I call you a liar until you bring me a tape record of that talk", and "WFM, so it's proven"20:42
freemangordonnever said "hahaha"20:42
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DocScrutinizer05and I'm out20:43
freemangordonand yes, I need some evidence to support your statement "there are SiErrs"20:43
DocScrutinizer05pease stop spreading FUD, it been SpeedEvil who first said that20:43
DocScrutinizer05and he didn't say "iirc"20:44
DocScrutinizer05and in my book that's 2 to 1 for those who know what they know, while the one person just prefers to think they're both lying or telling shit20:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, lets agree to disagree and stop that fight, ok :) ?20:45
DocScrutinizer05and I'm not interetsed in discussions on that level20:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: my level? come on20:46
DocScrutinizer05I'd feel reluctant to suggest SmartReflex to anybody, without even any proper evaluation of the expected benefit, compared to the very real concerns about Nokia telling it's not stable on hw level20:46
DocScrutinizer05stands20:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: test it on a couple of n900s!20:47
DocScrutinizer05MEEE?? dream on20:48
freemangordonkerio: it is still WFM basis, thus not enough20:48
DocScrutinizer05damn, you're exceptionally simple today, are you? evaluation savings is *totally* unrelated to friggin WFM, if done correctly20:49
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I was talking about stability20:50
DocScrutinizer05you were talking... about... aha20:50
freemangordonas if it is not stable, it makes no sense to measure the savings20:50
DocScrutinizer05you're not talking at all, you're living your bitchy mood20:51
freemangordonactually my mood is pretty ok ;)20:51
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I bet. Seems it's your preferred mood anyway20:51
DocScrutinizer05for sure you must love it to argue20:51
DocScrutinizer05no matter if there's any rationale in it ot not20:52
DocScrutinizer05and honestly, I'm already more than fed up with it20:52
DocScrutinizer05so for good now, cya20:52
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Skryoh why cant the sgx driver be reverse engineered :S20:59
freemangordonSkry: sgx driver is OSS :P21:00
DocScrutinizer05who says it can't?21:00
Skryyeah the kernel part21:01
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Skryok, i can handle those closed libraries, but there really should be working (modern) driver for xorg21:03
freemangordonSkry: but,but... I thought it is upstreamed. Isn't it?21:04
freemangordonaah, no21:04
Skryno, andnever will be21:04
Skryunless someone does some serious cleanup21:04
freemangordonBTW did you manage to compile it?21:05
freemangordon(xorg driver)21:05
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Skryfreemangordon: xorg driver is closed21:06
Skryi can compile kernel drivers ok if disabling xorg support from it, yes, they are linked21:06
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Skryi stopped trying to compile it with x support when I started getting unknown symbols from drm kmod21:08
zsolthi there.I extracted the rootfs from maemo image,tared,then untared in mmcblk0p5 modified rcS-late,uncommented fstab generation.it hangs with the maemo loader21:09
zsoltline21:09
zsoltnow fstab is static21:09
zsoltuse bootloader.didn't touch to the original fs21:10
zsoltneed some advice please21:10
zsoltmy goal is to boot maemo from sd card21:13
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DocScrutinizer05I think it's been accomplished before, maybe NIN101 knows details21:25
NIN101dunno, never did it myself.21:27
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NIN101http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QH2EfTux parts of this config might help, basically you need the file system of sd card partition compiled into the kernel, not as a module...21:32
NIN101and modify the comamnd line of the kernel to actually boot from sdcard then21:32
NIN101(or do it by using flasher)21:32
DocScrutinizer05yep, main obstacle being the fs driver21:33
DocScrutinizer05KP should be fine21:33
DocScrutinizer05just make uBoot load KP image from mmcblk0pN, and pass it kernel cmdline to have rootfs also on mmcblk0pN21:34
NIN101you can also modify the built-in command line when recompilng the kernel(this is what you have to do anyway)21:35
DocScrutinizer05keep in mind during early boot uSD is mmcblk0 and eMMc is mmcblk1. It only gets renamed later21:35
DocScrutinizer05the nifty rationale of that probably being an option to make ROMBL load xloader/NOLO/$n1st-stage-BL from a swap-able uSD21:37
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DocScrutinizer05the ugly part of it: if there's no uSD plugged in, the eMMC will become mmcblk0 even during early boot/kernel-init21:38
DocScrutinizer05sounds like windows drive letter hell, doesn't it? ;-P21:39
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nox-http://i.imgur.com/FdGXY.jpg21:49
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DocScrutinizer05hehe21:53
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DocScrutinizer05NIN101: why do you think zsolt needs a custom kernel?21:54
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't uBoot boot a proper KP plus maemo5 rootfs from uSD or eMMC, just like it did (and still does?) for meego?21:56
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DocScrutinizer05I'd probably install meego dualboot setup on uSD, then replace meego kernel by KP, and copy fremantle rootfs over meego rootfs. Then just check uBoot config file for possible differences needed in kernel cmdline parameters21:58
NIN101hmm ok, didn't assume uboot wa sused21:59
DocScrutinizer05well, sounds like the easiest approach21:59
DocScrutinizer05plus keeps original NAND maemo intact22:00
DocScrutinizer05actually I placed exactly this task on my ToDo some 2 years ago. Eventually it fell off the bottom end22:00
zsolti installed u-boot22:01
zsoltthank you for help22:02
zsoltit is funny,i told for u-boot to boot from mmcbl0p5 and put the zImage to /boot,what happens?it boots up from nand22:05
Skrycould you give some details about how you told u-boot to do that?22:07
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Skrynah, gtg22:09
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kerioi seriously need some kind of bluetooth remote control for the n900 :(22:18
keriothat is, something on my laptop that lets me do stuff with the n90022:18
kerioat the very least connect to a wifi network22:18
DocScrutinizer05hey, why does mine connect to WLAN automatically? ;-)22:19
kerioDocScrutinizer05: because you like to waste power looking for a wlan >:C22:20
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kerioanyway, i do realize that it's kind of a niche usecase22:21
freemangordonkerio: incorrect, I have mine setup to do autoconnect every 5 minutes22:21
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I once had a QB desktop button to toggle the "connect to WLAN if available" setting22:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the problem is accessing the desktop22:22
DocScrutinizer05I needed that when my DSL was flaky22:22
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keriothe usecase is this: i'm pooping, and my phone is in my room22:22
kerioand it's not connected to the wifi network22:23
Sicelo:P22:23
DocScrutinizer05why?22:23
kerioDocScrutinizer05: because i don't have autoconnect on22:23
DocScrutinizer05yeah, why?22:23
keriobecause battery! :(22:24
DocScrutinizer05actually being connected to WLAN is pretty lightweight22:24
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DocScrutinizer05so it seems your problem isn't to make N900 connect to WLAN at arbitrary time by user interaction, but rather make it connect to WLAN every time you enter the room22:25
DocScrutinizer05or rather, come home22:25
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: actually, i know what i want22:28
keriossh-through-bluetooth22:28
DocScrutinizer05well, if you're not interested in alternatives, go and set it up22:29
kerioi wonder how22:29
DocScrutinizer05PAN22:29
keriolast i heard, bluez was a giant mess22:29
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kerionah, PAN on fremantle is weird as fuck22:30
kerioi need a serial connection, bluetooth allows that22:30
DocScrutinizer05you asked for it. Explicitly22:30
DocScrutinizer05actually I'd be surprised to find ssh work via plain serial22:31
kerioi said ssh-over-bluetooth, not ssh-over-tcp-over-bluetooth :)22:31
DocScrutinizer05it's rather network based, no?22:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: are you kidding? ssh over pipes is insanely useful22:31
kerioProxyCommand22:31
DocScrutinizer05mhm, and how you're handling the URLs etc, the server name based auth22:32
keriohmm, is there a command (apart for screen) to get input-output to and from a device file?22:32
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keriono, known_hosts isn't checked if you use ProxyCommand22:33
keriobecause the hostname could be something weird22:33
DocScrutinizer05:shrug:22:33
DocScrutinizer05too weird for me22:33
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DocScrutinizer05get WLAN working. If you for F*s sake can't do that, get PAN working22:34
keriothe ssh client has an option to specify an executable to use as a proxy pipe22:34
kerioinput and output eventually have to reach a ssh server, in some way22:34
DocScrutinizer05if you can't even do that, send a semaphore file to some well known location on  N900, via BT OBEX22:34
keriooooh, that's simple22:35
kerioneat22:35
DocScrutinizer05but you said you're not interested in alternatives22:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is there a command to do bidirectional transfers with a device file?22:35
keriosomething like "screen /dev/ttywhatever" but that only does simple piping22:36
DocScrutinizer05err, isn't that called minicom?22:36
keriominicom is interactive too22:36
DocScrutinizer05cat foo >/dev/bar22:36
keriothat's one-way only, though22:37
DocScrutinizer05cat /dev/bar&22:37
kerioheh22:37
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DocScrutinizer05dunno what you're planning to do22:38
kerioi need the stdin of the command to be sent to the device file, and the output read from the device file to be outputted in the stdout22:39
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DocScrutinizer05what's the use of that?22:39
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DocScrutinizer05something like >>  date|cat|cat|cat <<?22:40
DocScrutinizer05how's stdout of any such tool different from piping the original device somewhere?22:40
keriossh wants an executable22:40
DocScrutinizer05for good reason22:42
keriooh nvm, you actually need to set the device file up in some way if it's a tty22:42
kerioanyway, i only need this on my computer, on the n900's side its' just *getty that calls sshd -i or nc localhost 2222:43
DocScrutinizer05don't you think getting PAN to purpose would be more sane?22:43
kerionope!22:43
DocScrutinizer05:shrug:22:44
keriohmm, what's a good time for the automatic WLAN search? is 5 minutes too short?22:44
DocScrutinizer05you might win some funny award with this solution, if you ever make it work22:44
DocScrutinizer05I've put it to 10min22:45
DocScrutinizer05set it to*22:45
DocScrutinizer05way smarter of course would be to set it to 'off' and only trigger an immediate scan or set autoscan to 5min when you see some special trigger. GPS is probably no brilliant idea, but a certain cell-id on cellmo might work nicely22:46
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DocScrutinizer05your beloved SMSCB opername widget already dumps cellids to the log files22:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: a special trigger such as my laptop opening a bluetooth connection of some sorts, maybe...22:48
kerioi'm still going through with this idea of ssh-over-serial, btw22:48
DocScrutinizer05"opening BT connection"? why not just trigger on associate22:49
kerioyeah, that one22:49
kerio(although os x doesn't have a way to associate without doing something with the association)22:50
DocScrutinizer05there's a tool on desktops that locks screens automatically when you leave BT range with your paired device, and unlocks when you come back22:50
DocScrutinizer05standard bluez afaik22:50
DocScrutinizer05you probably could plumb sth together on maemo that does pretty much the same22:51
DocScrutinizer05I mean, association is a bilateral thing22:51
DocScrutinizer05or rather, connection22:52
DocScrutinizer05and loss thereof22:52
kerioagetty -8 -i -n -L -l "/usr/bin/nc localhost 22" /dev/ttyB022:52
kerioor something like this :D22:53
kerioso... /etc/bluetooth/main.conf looks unused22:53
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DocScrutinizer05I'd be honestly surprised to see this work22:59
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keriohrmpf, i can't find documentation on how to open a serial bluetooth port23:18
freemangordonkerio: wait a minute, I wrote something an year ago, I think it will help23:18
keriofreemangordon: i need the "server" part23:19
Siceloyou are looking for "rfcomm", i think23:21
freemangordonkerio: don't know what do you mean by "server part",but you need to call rfcomm23:21
freemangordonSicelo: aah, you beat me :D23:22
keriofreemangordon: i meant that i want the n900 to wait for a serial connection from my laptop23:22
freemangordonkerio: though if you wish I can give you my btsettingsqt :D23:22
freemangordonlemme try if it still works (and how)23:23
keriooh ok, rfcomm listen23:23
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freemangordonkerio: it is still ok, bt helper in settings (if you want it)23:27
freemangordonyou can connect com port with it23:27
freemangordonit creates serial device in /dev and goodies like that23:27
freemangordonkerio: http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=a95724382623:29
kerioty23:29
keriohrmpf, "serial port" connects to the bluetooth DUN interface23:31
freemangordonyou have DUN on your laptop?23:31
freemangordonservice that is23:32
DocScrutinizer05kerio: DUN is a trick23:32
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DocScrutinizer05afaik, it's just using pnatd to pipe between serial BT and cellmo23:33
freemangordonkerio: you tried rfcomm or my app?23:33
DocScrutinizer05done in some scriptie or event file23:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you probably want to replace pnatd by your cxontraption to interface to ssh23:34
keriofreemangordon: not yet23:34
freemangordonkerio: try it, it connects the correct thing (IIRC)23:34
freemangordonnot DUN23:34
keriohm23:35
keriowell apparently os x doesn't support RFCOMM out of the box anyway23:35
kerioso first i need a RFCOMM utility23:35
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DocScrutinizer05less /etc/event.d/phonet-at23:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hmm, that's the gadget serial though23:37
DocScrutinizer05sure23:37
kerioi see23:38
freemangordonkerio: I just made a connection between /dev/rfcomm0 and COM4 on my PC23:38
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's /etc/event.d/bluetooth-dun :)23:38
kerioand it's about as simple23:38
kerioi need to register a SPP instead of a DUN, but it's really the same thing23:38
keriotyvm y'all23:39
freemangordonhmm, maybe i should finish that application some day23:45
Skryno, you should start coding me sgx xorg driver first ;>23:46
freemangordonhehe23:46
freemangordonno, you should boot maemo5 with kernel 3.6 first :D23:47
Skryactually I'm about to try :)23:47
freemangordonwell, 3.2 will do the job too :P23:47
freemangordonSkry: ask Pali for help, he has some bits needed to do that23:47
vi_Skry: you said thumb2+hardfp compiled stuff will run on n900 in a chroot?23:48
freemangordonvi_: pong23:48
Skryvi_: yes23:48
freemangordon(very late one)23:48
vi_freemangordon: hey.23:48
vi_freemangordon: I kludged through my issue.23:48
vi_thankyou anyways.23:48
freemangordonSkry: only with KP or kernel-cssu23:49
Skryyep23:49
freemangordonbecause of thumb23:49
freemangordonvi_: ok23:49
freemangordonnp23:49
vi_Skry: does strait up debian have a hardfp+thumb2 branch?23:49
PaliSkry: I have patch for meego (2.6.37+) kernel which add maemo5 specific interface23:49
Palibut not everything23:50
freemangordonPali: hi23:50
Palihi23:50
freemangordonI still wait an answer re libbmeipc :P23:50
freemangordonwhy you don;t like my code :D23:50
Skryvi_: I dont know, they had it in planning state though at some point, if memory serves23:51
Palifor unknown reason qemu cannot use emmc23:51
Paliso I was not able to test that patch in qemu23:51
SkryPali: could you give me a link for that patch?23:51
Paliyes, wait23:51
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vi_neon optimised bzip2 would be sweet.23:52
PaliSkry: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/meego_n900_kernel_fremantle.patch23:52
freemangordonvi_: who uses it? apt?23:52
Palipatch is for meego n900 kernel (from gitorious branch)23:52
Skryfreemangordon: but seriously, someone should start doing that xorg driver, I think one could get xf86-video-modesetting and start including sgx stuff ala fbdev-sgx23:53
SkryPali: thanks23:53
freemangordonSkry: sure, but that won;t be me :P23:53
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vi_freemangordon: yup.23:53
Skryfreemangordon: think about all the fame and glory! :P23:53
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freemangordonSkry: I am already fed with fame and glory :D:D:D23:54
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PaliSkry: look here: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/meego_n900_kernel_fremantle.sh23:55
Skryit's beginning to look like i have to start learning and do it myself. maybe i can get it to display hello world through sgx in few years or so23:55
SkryPali: sure23:55
keriomeh, bluetooth is a fucking mess23:55
PaliI used these commands in qemu for removing some specified parts23:55
Palidisabling bme & lowmem23:56
vi_kerio: yup.23:56
vi_there is a chilli sauce thief at my work.23:57
vi_he steals my chilli sauce from the fridge.23:57
vi_and uses it up.23:58
vi_That motherfucker is going to pay.23:58
vi_I just put some 'daves insanity sauce' in a cholula bottle.  I am going to leave it in the fridge at work.23:59
keriofreemangordon: hmm, where does that btsettings come from?23:59
freemangordonkerio: I wrote it23:59
vi_DIS was banned from the world chilli sauce convention because it was too spicy.23:59

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