IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-09-22

ShadowJKBe graceful about the input, and strict about your output? Or something like that00:00
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vi___Our in house software spams the serial port with garbage and that cuases our products to go nuts and you want to try to resolve the problem by dicking with the firmware?00:01
freemangordonin house, but closed source? closed source as there is noone to maintain it.00:01
vi___no no.  in house.00:01
vi___written in house.00:01
vi___by fucking retards.00:01
freemangordonyes, I understand that00:01
jacekowskihow do you even do that00:02
keriojacekowski: i get about 10mA on wifi with no traffic in and out00:02
kerioso yeah, i'm fairly certain i've got wifi powersaving working00:02
freemangordonvi__: my point was that if there is noone who knows how it works, it could be closed source as well :)00:02
ShadowJK10mA is down in the range where measurement method makes a difference00:02
vi___our in house software is written in pascal.00:03
kerioShadowJK: bq27200.sh00:03
jacekowskibest thing to do would be to compare battery level after few hours00:03
vi___we have ALL the source code.00:03
keriojacekowski: that's assuming i can last a few hours without playing with my n90000:03
ShadowJKkerio; yes but I mean with a 5s interval it'll take offline N900 up to 10mA even00:03
freemangordonvi__: do you have pascal developers?00:04
jacekowskivi___: how do you spam serial port with shit00:04
vi___not spamming the serial port with horse shit seems like a pretty simple requirement for a programused to send stuff over a serial port.00:04
freemangordonpascal was outdated for how many? 15 years?00:04
jacekowskifreemangordon: 000:04
vi___freemangordon: our in house programmers use pascal.00:04
jacekowskifreemangordon: there is nothing wrong with pascal00:05
ShadowJKNot acting on horeshit seems like a simple req too :)00:05
freemangordonwho said there is something wrong?00:05
vi___jacekowski: there is nothing wrong with fortran.00:05
jacekowskifreemangordon: and i would take object pascal over C++ any day00:05
freemangordonand cobol too00:05
vi___ShadowJK: I did not write this abomination of firmware, I just have to fix it.00:06
freemangordonit is (was) good00:06
jacekowskimore i deal with C++ and it's way of doing OOP by linking all disadvantage of C and OOP in single language00:06
jacekowskithe more i realise how good object pascal is00:06
freemangordonunfortunately borland died00:06
freemangordonthough I was using cbuilder (because of the language)00:06
RST38hC++ is not an OOP language, so I do not see what you are complaining about00:06
* vi___ loves some turbo C00:07
RST38hit is C with objects00:07
RST38hwhere "object" = "structure with data and some function pointers"00:07
jacekowskiand overloading that makes 2+2==5 true00:07
jacekowskiand debugging complicated00:07
vi___they have major bits of processing within interrupt service routines...00:07
freemangordonvi__: what os is that running, DOS 3.30?00:08
vi___it is an embedded system.00:08
freemangordonthe software in question, not the firmware00:09
jacekowskiand then for strings in C++ you get std string and C type char00:09
jacekowskiboth doing exactly same thing in the end00:09
vi___xp I think.00:09
jacekowskibut not exactly compatible00:09
freemangordonjacekowski: you're mixing things, those are libraries, not a part of the language itself00:10
kerioc++, the indecidable language00:11
jacekowskifreemangordon: part of the standard00:11
jacekowskifreemangordon: therefore part of the language00:11
ShadowJKlike libc part of c?00:11
freemangordonjacekowski: you may use C/C++ to write whatever piece of code, vi__'s firmware for example00:12
freemangordonwithout using any "standarts"00:13
freemangordonc/c++ != posix00:13
jacekowskinobody said posix00:13
freemangordonok, that was just an example00:13
freemangordonmy co-workers use it to program embedded devices using vendor's libs, which are missing basic "ordinary" functions. But they still use C/C++00:15
jacekowskioverloading is part of C++ itself00:15
freemangordonyes, it is00:15
jacekowskiand every time i see that i know it's going to be painful to debug00:15
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jacekowskiand worse thing is, that you never know what a+b will do00:16
freemangordonagain, this is not part of C, but from the library you link with00:17
jacekowskiyou may end up with code like that a=2;b=2;c=a+b; and c would = 5 in the end00:17
freemangordonI don;t want my compiler to restrict me in what I am doing00:18
keriofreemangordon: you deserve the worst00:19
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freemangordonkerio: and you deserve no new bb-power-thumb ;)00:20
vi___MOAR THUMB.00:20
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freemangordonkerio: no more thumb for you , only other fingers :P00:21
kerio...the ring finger?00:22
keriothe pinky!00:22
vi___I wish there was a thumb debian branch.  That would be sweeeeeet.00:22
freemangordonvi__: ubuntu 12.04 is thumb00:23
vi___Does it come as strait up debian?00:23
keriowait, we use softfp?00:24
vi___can thumb kernel even hardfp in chroot?00:24
freemangordonafaik no00:24
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freemangordoni might be wrong, as maybe it is libc who deals with that stuff, not kernel00:25
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vi___I have lierally NFC.00:25
freemangordonme too :D00:25
freemangordonthose are just wild guesses00:25
bigotesnear field comm00:25
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vi___I just know HFP+thumb==MOAR BETTER.00:25
vi___did you see some guy compiled latest nmap.00:26
freemangordonisn't it in repos?00:26
vi___it now works.00:26
freemangordonanyway, I am going to have some sleep00:26
vi___version 5.ARSE is in the repos, totally broken.00:26
vi___he compiled 600:27
vi___and flash 10!00:27
vi___N900 is not beaten yet!00:27
vi___although I want to know who found it.00:27
vi___Il wager it was merlin199100:27
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keriovi___: link to nmap 6?00:29
Woody14619Aww.. vi___  You do know, "I'm saving my thumbs for you!"   Right? ;)00:29
Woody14619Opps, my bad.  "I'm saving my thumbs for You!"  There.. much better. ;)00:29
* vi___ is mildly aroused.00:30
Woody14619If you got the reference, I doubt you would be. ;)00:30
vi___kerio: it is on his server somewhere.00:31
keriowhose server?00:31
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vi___Woody14619: ...or maybe i do!00:31
vi___kerio: cannot remember.00:31
vi___kerio: I have the deb.00:31
Woody14619Do You?  Do You really? I don't know if You know who I'm talking about. ;)00:32
Woody14619Anyway... off to play games... err.. I mean.. Test CC apps to find out who I want to vote for. :)00:32
vi___ok.  I have no idea.00:32
Woody14619Clearly it's he who must not be named (or enter the room, as he's been kick/banned).00:33
Skrysoftfp kernel works fine with hardfp userland.00:33
Woody14619Anyway.  Enjoy, and will see you all Monday...00:33
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Woody14619Also, don't forget, only one more week to nominate yourself (and others) to Council and/or the Board.00:33
vi___have a good weekend mate.00:33
Woody14619(Yes, that's going on right now... only 2 nominations so far...)00:34
kerioWoody14619: is E* one of them?00:34
bigotesmm I need to see the logs00:34
bigoteswhy this happened and I didn't notice it D:00:35
Woody14619kerio: I will never tell You! ;)00:35
kerioWoody14619: it would be a nice excuse to force DocScrutinizer to nominate himself00:35
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Woody14619Lol... don't tempt me. ;)00:36
DocScrutinizer51F U00:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: <300:36
Woody14619LOL! :)00:36
vi___dunno if it is optmised00:36
keriovi___: 404 here00:36
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vi___I have most of the directory symlinked anyway00:36
Woody14619Anyway, have a good weekend!  C'ya!00:37
bigotesif we vote for him he will be obligated to accept00:37
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keriobigotes: of course00:37
kerioit's like the army00:37
bigotesthat's democracy right there00:37
keriobut people can enlist other people00:37
vi___fuck knows then00:38
vi___his name was spoofy.00:38
vi___I have the deb if you can think of an easy way to get it to you that requires little to no effort on mhy part.00:39
vi___ gtg00:39
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keriovi__: dropbox?00:42
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kerio"Anyway those are Qt standard QTextInput fields, I have no control of that. That would be a Qt problem, not a Yappari problem."01:09
keriothen why the hell doesn't my shift+fn combo work? D:01:09
keriofucking qt01:09
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DocScrutinizer05so what's the threat now???01:29
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: thou shalt not call my name in vain!01:32
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hmm... which threat?01:33
keriothere's plenty01:33
DocScrutinizer05<kerio> Woody14619: it would be a nice excuse to force DocScrutinizer to nominate himself01:33
keriooh right01:33
keriothe eventual nomination of the dude with the E and the _01:33
* DocScrutinizer05 ducks and covers01:34
DocScrutinizer05do you ever knew, THIS ASSHOLE  WRITING THESE WORDS VOTED FOR HIM01:34
DocScrutinizer05ok, my definite coming-out01:35
DocScrutinizer05probably I have to resign now from internet at large, to evade shitstorms01:35
keriobut now you have the chance to make it better01:35
DocScrutinizer05toldya, 2h/week, and grupy mood guaranteed01:36
DocScrutinizer05anyway I promise I'll not go apeshit mad about my new perceived powers that aren't real01:37
DocScrutinizer05I'm considering not to reject reasonable 3rd party nominations01:37
DocScrutinizer05you'll get what you asked for, anyway ;-D01:38
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Skrythats the spirit! :)01:39
DocScrutinizer05now it's up to you01:39
DocScrutinizer05please keep in mind I didn't ask for anything! I'd prefer to do more nice things with my scarce leisure time01:40
DocScrutinizer05also (though in the end that's up to every single one of you) keep in mind I'd prefer board to council01:41
keriowhat's the difference, again?01:42
DocScrutinizer05board does legalese, while council does Dr Freud?01:43
keriowho does Dr Seuss?01:43
DocScrutinizer05Sigmund, you know him01:43
DocScrutinizer05thoufg, sometimes we have to find some decent psycho therapist for council mebers X-P01:44
DocScrutinizer05...some of them, at least01:45
DocScrutinizer05you know what i'm talking bout01:45
DocScrutinizer05woody: thanks for the prodding01:46
DocScrutinizer05I know you never misunderstood role and meaning of council (unlike some others who evidently did)01:47
DocScrutinizer05*one* other person?01:47
DocScrutinizer05I'd not like to imply more than I meant to do01:48
DocScrutinizer05well, if "some others" includes tmo users asking for new monarchy to save them from taking own POV and decision, then probably it's more than one person01:49
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, keep in mind that I'm saving my scarce leisure time by not rewading all new threads on tmo. Actually I take pride in being agnostic to that lesser pleasant aspect of possible maemo life01:52
DocScrutinizer05IOW, if you want me to participate in tmo or ML, toss me a link on IRC please01:52
DocScrutinizer05otherwise it didn't happen01:52
DocScrutinizer05hmm, -w01:53
DocScrutinizer05aka "reading*"01:53
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kerionah, i just like to link you the E*_ rants i stumble upon02:15
DocScrutinizer05mkfifo stfu02:21
DocScrutinizer05dd if=dev/zero of=stfu02:21
DocScrutinizer05dd if=stfo of=jerio02:22
DocScrutinizer05dd if=stfo of=kerio02:22
keriodd: stfo: No such file or directory02:24
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DocScrutinizer05I admit I have no decent answer for this, not even a bindmount02:28
DocScrutinizer05probably we could ship a fix in CSSU02:28
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DocScrutinizer05I might craft something depending on locales and dedicated charsets02:31
* DocScrutinizer05 summons Raster to comment on E* rants02:32
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keriooh joy, i've got phantom "birthday" entries in my calendar :(08:50
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kerioah fuck, after syncing i have no birthdays in the calendar at all10:49
kerioi don't even10:49
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PaliHi, I need flashing output dumps from flasher-3.5. I'm rewriting 0xFFFF code and I need to understand NOLO protocol. See
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PaliIf somebody will need to flash N900 (on linux), please use ld preload library from that thread. It write to stdout some control informations13:07
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keriodoes anyone here use yappari?13:55
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Cansecoanybody compiled last nmap or p0f for Maemo5?15:36
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Hurrian>mfw Flash 10 for Maemo leaked16:38
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HurrianI've definitely been out of the Fremantle forum way too long.16:39
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Hurrianspeaking of which, mods, if you're awake, please change the Flash 10 megathread's title!16:42
Lava_Croftthe flash thread is awesome16:43
Lava_Croft50+ pages about a seriously horrible piece of software that most people hate deeply16:43
HurrianLava_Croft, true, but some people need it for some other horrible POS web app.16:46
Hurrianfortunately, it's mostly considered "deprecated" nowadays16:46
Lava_Croftif your webapp requires flash, you should find another one16:46
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RST38hScheduled to be released next month, Ubuntu 12.10 now includes both Amazon ads in the user's dash and by default an amazon store in the user's launcher.16:51
* RST38h ROTFLs16:52
RST38hCanonical is 'confident it will be an interesting and useful feature for our 12.10 users.'16:52
* RST38h suspects that by "users" they mean Amazon16:52
Lava_CroftRST38h: :)16:54
Lava_CroftAnother reason to just use Windows716:54
RST38hnot really16:54
Cansecohope Kubuntu guys don't do the same16:55
Hurrianuse another distro, perhaps?16:55
lokimotivetime to switch to gentoo :-)16:55
Lava_Crofti love my wintoon :<16:55
Lava_Croftbetter said, i love my games, which makes me have to love windows:|16:56
Cansecoi love my 58 games on Linux too, ;)16:56
lokimotivenethack ftw16:56
Lava_Croftnethack got boring over 10years ago16:56
Lava_Croftnethack wasnt that great anyway16:57
Lava_Crofti enjoy adom and doomrl much more16:57
lokimotivebut you can't die by falling down stairs in those16:57
Lava_Crofti can do that irl16:57
Lava_Croftdont need a game for that16:57
RST38hdoomrl = Doom in Real Life16:58
Lava_CroftDOOM the Rogue Like16:58
Lava_Croftpretty neato roguelike16:58
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Lava_Croftthey even have sprite gfx nowadays!16:59
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lokimotivei think i'll stick with my little @17:00
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Lava_Croftyour little @ is used in just about any roguelike:)17:03
Lava_Croftalso doomrl:)17:03
lokimotivenah because you said the even have sprite gfx17:04
Lava_Croftyes, nethack does too17:05
Lava_Croftits a matter of choice and preference17:05
lokimotiveof course it is17:05
lokimotivejust as it is which rogue-like you play17:06
Lava_Croftno, people that play nethack are really inferior17:06
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pdanekHello, is there easy Wifi tethering solution for N900?18:00
pdanekI found JoikuSpot, but it's paid.18:00
freemangordonyou'll need kernel-power though18:01
pdanekis it in repos? qmobilehotspot?18:01
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rzr # Wanna join !n950club for only +2500 EUR ?  #MeeGo #HarmattaN #n950 #MerProject18:31
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WizzupHm... The latest update of cssu wants me to connect to the pc suite to update18:56
* Wizzup updates cssu enabler first18:57
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WizzupThink I figured it out19:16
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andre__Wizzup, install the Operator thingy first, then it works19:50
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Wizzupandre__: yeah, I found that under the ``problems'' tab after some googling :)19:56
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ShadowJKTesting new Nokia BL-5J 1400-something mAh claimed. So far battery internal resistance feels disappoitnig, capacity might be as claimed though21:03
ShadowJKLow IR is mostly interesting for faster charge times :)21:05
myuu__what is the capacity?21:11
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: low Z also interesting for usable capacity on heavy load, like during phone call21:25
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DocScrutinizer05and yes, that's a known symptom. Higher capacity on same volume usually also means higher Z21:25
DocScrutinizer05so the higher capacity easily might turn into opposite on high load21:26
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: see goldcaps where that's obvious. The capacitors in Farad range usually have Z in the range of hundereds of Ohms21:28
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ShadowJKBut Japod has highest capacity I've encountered so far, AND lowest Z21:42
ShadowJKIn other news, the battery of my SmartQ7 seems dead21:45
ShadowJKtoo long empty i guess21:47
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gomiamprobably old question, but I haven't been able to find a definite answer. My n900 "randomly" (not really that randomly, but I haven't been able to pinpoint it yet) loses connection to my GSM card...22:07
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gomiamhints about an once-and-for-all solution? (besides "don't use it", if possible :)22:07
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DocScrutinizer05gomiam: alas this usually is a symptom of a hw defect22:15
gomiamI feared that22:15
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DocScrutinizer05of course I suggest to reflash a clean PR1.3 and run it without any additional apps installed for several days, to verify it's not sw caused22:15
gomiamthe forums I read talked about pushing it with some kind of rubber...22:16
gomiamI will have to try flashing it, just in case22:16
DocScrutinizer05if it's hw, then it's soldering or bonding of BB5 cellmo chip22:16
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gomiamo-u-c-h :)22:17
DocScrutinizer05applying random force to the whole PCB (mainboard) can change symptoms a bit, but not for long and not always to the better22:17
gomiamthanks for the info :)22:17
DocScrutinizer05sorry though22:17
DocScrutinizer05resoldering chip might help, if you can get access to proper SMT reflow workstation, or want to go the extremist way of DIY reflow in oven22:18
gomiamdon't be, I knew this could happen.22:18
DocScrutinizer05odds are you'll kill the device completely during such enterprise22:19
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gomiamFortunately I still have my previous phone handy if I don't manage to fix this issue.22:19
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to set up a wiki page "Symptom: SIM crossed out", and list all aggregated knowledge about the reported cases by ShadowJK and others22:20
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil also, irrc22:20
gomiamit might be a good idea22:21
DocScrutinizer05gomiam: anyway, clean your SIM contacts (sometimes dirt on contacts causes similar symptom)22:21
gomiamwill do, too22:22
DocScrutinizer05makes ure the contact springs in holder look "normal" and equally positioned22:22
DocScrutinizer05make sure*22:22
DocScrutinizer05press keyboard firmly (ask SpeedEvil (iirc) about where to press exactly), it's been reported to instantly induce change in SIM detection state22:23
DocScrutinizer05check syslog/dmesg for cmt messages22:24
DocScrutinizer05try talking to modem when it says "SIM not present": start pnatd, enter " AT<enter>" should answer with "OK"22:25
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DocScrutinizer05if it doesn't, you probably have a dead modem22:25
gomiamI was checking dmesg but found nothing... then again, I probably should test it a few more times :)22:25
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gomiamfortunately it seems to work... if I handle it with care :)22:26
gomiamuntil it stops working, of course22:26
DocScrutinizer05any mechanical effects to "SIM missing" are a strong indicator of usual chip-soldering hw defect22:27
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gomiambtw, all screws in a N900 are supposed to be Torx, right?22:27
gomiam(all the screws that keep it together, I mean)22:28
DocScrutinizer05ooh, there's also a small chance that a waek and worn-out battery (or dirty battery contacts) may cause modem resets and dropouts22:28
DocScrutinizer05nope, only the two that keep kbd frame in place are TX-622:28
gomiamah, ok22:28
DocScrutinizer05other are philips22:28
gomiamI'm used to tinkering with my N800s..22:28
gomiamthat matches what I see right now22:29
DocScrutinizer05get L1_222:29
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gomiamfortunately I have a "weird screw heads" box and a "precision screws box"22:29
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DocScrutinizer05damn, the RE components BOM lists >>Main PCB, Bottom   User Interface   Battery   Rechargeable   1   Seiko Instruments   XH414H   Battery - XH-HG Capacitor, 3.3V, 0.08F, Button Type, , w/ Integral Battery Contacts   + XH414H + SII JAPAN      2      4.80         1.40    Visit URL<< for bupbat22:54
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DocScrutinizer05damn, because I hoped the problem with bupbat was caused by Nokia using the LiIon type and you could use the capacitive type to get a better MTBF than the obviously common <12months22:58
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DocScrutinizer05well, even iSuppli might be wrong. AFAIK there's no proper label on the bupbat23:00
DocScrutinizer05If nokia was a tad more community-oriented and openminded, we just could ask them what's the actual brand&type of bupbat used in N900, but nokia isn't even able to "disclose" resistance in Ohms of a single resistor23:02
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SkryDocScrutinizer05: nothing against suse, have the least experience about it regarding "the big ones" so can't say anything about it.23:33
Skrymy basis of recommending mint is based on my experiences of recommending it to newcomers23:34
DocScrutinizer05I don't think mist is mainly focused on stability and security23:36
Skryeven though I try to leave recommending anything to others as my expectations of a good distribution (be it ease of use or stability) might differ dramatically from someones who is coming from windows23:36
DocScrutinizer05mint even23:36
Skryit's focused on simplicity23:38
Skryi guess23:38
Skryor should i say end user experience23:39
dafoxhi all. Does anyone know if yappari (the whatsapp client) is in any repo (or why it doesn't seem to be)? Also any impressions (how well does it work) would be much appreciated :)23:40
Skryaaaand me had wrong channel :)23:41
DocScrutinizer05well openSuse is basicaly the community backport plus new development of the SLED mission critical grade distro, and of course it comes with commercial grade administration tools23:42
DocScrutinizer05Skry: (wrong chan) not really. The other one been way more wrong chan ;-)23:43
DocScrutinizer05(not that it was exactly on topic here either)23:44
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DocScrutinizer05dafox: nfc about wutsap or whatever the name, nor about any of the clones23:45
DocScrutinizer05I only know it's a quite likely a pretty poor concept and a poor idea to use it23:45
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dafoxDocScrutinizer05: why do you think it's a poor concept?23:46
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DocScrutinizer05since all I heard about it indicates it's a third rehash of VoIP23:47
DocScrutinizer05even worse than skype23:48
DocScrutinizer05and for sure not as free (in beer) as you love to think23:48
DocScrutinizer05it ripps off all your private data afaik23:48
dafoxDocScrutinizer05: I think you may be thinking about skype? whatsapp is the sms-over-wifi type thing23:49
DocScrutinizer05pretty much the same, no?23:49
dafoxnot really, one is voice, one is text messages23:50
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dafoxboth are 'cheating' the network operators23:50
DocScrutinizer05there's no free-of-charge SMS sending, and if this particular service doesn't charge you in money, they will charge you in some other currency23:50
befordits only a modified jabber protocol23:51
dafoxDocScrutinizer05: I don't really know how it's all sponsored, I think on android its ad-driven23:51
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DocScrutinizer05usually in getting your valuable private data, inspecting your SMS/IM content, whatnot else23:51
befordthey dont send sms, you need to use internet access23:51
dafoxanyhow, lots of people around me use it, and I heard someone made a n900 version, so I thought it might be nice to have, as an addition to regular sms (since they seem to use it quite a bit)23:52
fizzieIsn't it just an IM thing? From what I recall from one whatsapp reverse-engineering page, it's just XMPP with a funky proprietary space-saving encoding (called "FunXMPP") and presumably some extensions (and more proprietary fluff for registration and so on). There were quite a few people hoping (unsuccessfully) to get support for it in libpurple.23:55
DocScrutinizer05there've been texting services around since ages, and they either plainly say they're making their money by adding ads to each message you send via that service, or they charge you in money though less than what a standard GSM SMS handled by your carrier would cost. And then there's *real* jabber, and IRC, and whatnot else, and of course SIP INFO messaging23:55
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DocScrutinizer05I can't see why I would want to use some BS mutation of jabber, and disclose my real phonenumber plus additional privacy data to them23:57
DocScrutinizer05I mean, google mail is terrible enough with their scanning of all my mail content and analyzing my habits based on what they can deduce from my mails. That's why I don't use gmail. Why would I use watsap which is doing even worse?23:59

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