IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-09-06

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Ken-YoungI am having trouble with the scratchbox-based SDK for Maemo 5.   I had to re-install it on my Ubuntu laptop.   The SDK will compile things etc, but when I test code using Xepher, the Hildon widgets don't quite work properly.   Specifically, the menus do not show any text the first time they are displayed, but they do show text on all subsequent times.   Also, mouse import events are missed, checkboxes are not updated, etc.   Has anyon01:20
Ken-Younge else seen that problem?01:20
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zltanis this channel about n900?03:39
SpeedEviltechnically, other maemo devices too.03:40
zltanwell, my n900 is quite laggy, what do you recommend me to do in order to get it work smoothly?03:41
jogazltan does it get better after reboot?03:42
zltanjoga: perhaps, but I can notice an obvious difference03:42
joga(I regularly kill hildon-home because after a while it starts lagging every time the screen turns on)03:43
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M4rtinKcheck top for runaway processes ?03:43
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zltani've noticed a new package - fastern9, what do you think about it?03:43
jogaie. after picture is visible, it takes several seconds to do anything, and it also happens if the phone is ringing which is awkward because even though I pressed answer many seconds ago I still wait for it to notice and to stop the ringtone :)03:43
jogazltan fwiw, I've tweaked transition effects to a minimum, it helps a lot imo03:44
joga(it appears more snappy)03:44
jogaalso avoiding cluttering desktops with unneccessary widgets that update all the time03:44
jogaalso install status area cpu/mem applet, then you can always see if it's busy when tiny bars rise up03:45
zltanjoga: have you tried the fastern9?03:46
jogaI've gotten used to that so if it seems busy I'll just let it do its thing first or at least don't press many times in hopes of getting a response03:46
jogazltan no03:46
zltanit seems that it really makes an improvement03:47
jogaI do have swappolube03:47
joganot sure what fastern9 does03:48
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jogaI haven't kept very up to date on recent programs/developments03:48
jogabut is that for n9 or n900?03:49
jogauff...sleepy time, good night03:50
zltanwhat theme do you use?03:51
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TamyrRRRRAnyone have experience with broken N900:s? When I press the power button my N900 seems to turn on (the led blinks white), but the screen doesn't turn on and the vibrator doesn't vibrate as it did before :(04:13
robbiethe1stIt's not dead?04:13
TamyrRRRRHowever, I hear clicks when clicking the screen just like I normally do, so the touchscreen input seems to work at least04:13
Ken-YoungTamyrRRRR, Have you tried removing the battery for a brief while, then trying a reboot?04:13
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TamyrRRRRKen-Young: Yep04:13
robbiethe1stI'd bet the screen cable is broken04:14
Ken-YoungTamyrRRRR, If you call the n900's number, does it ring?04:14
robbiethe1stYou can get replacement cables and screens on Ebay04:15
TamyrRRRRKen-Young: haven't tried it, but I doubt it since I can't enter the SIM unlock code04:15
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TamyrRRRRrobbiethe1st: Something like this?
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Ken-YoungThe vibrator not working makes it sound like it's not just the screen.04:16
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TamyrRRRRI could also mention that the keyboard lights do turn on04:18
robbiethe1stThere's a lot tied to that screen cable04:18
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Ken-YoungI may be wrong then.04:18
robbiethe1stwithout it, the device won't boot properly. With a broken one, it will usually boot, but...04:18
TamyrRRRRrobbiethe1st: I haven't disassembled my N900 before, would it be hard to replace the LCD?04:21
robbiethe1stYou have to be careful and you need a small philips screwdriver(ph00), and a small torx driver04:22
robbiethe1stBut it's not hard to replace the LCD or the cable04:22
TamyrRRRRCould there be any chance that the cable has simply been dislodged? (This seems to happen after the phone dropped one meter on the floor)04:23
robbiethe1stcould be04:23
robbiethe1stCheck once it's open04:23
robbiethe1stThe hardest part is, when you pull the LCD out, you have to be careful about dust getting in, and dust on top of the new LCD04:24
TamyrRRRRI see. Although that would be merely a cosmetic problem not a functional problem?04:25
robbiethe1stYou need to be very careful with the cable, though, for obvious reasons04:25
robbiethe1stThere's good photo-guides and youtube videos out there04:25
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TamyrRRRRThe N900 seems to be more fragile than other phones I've had :/04:28
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TamyrRRRRI've already had it replaced once (although they tried to foist some Symbian based device on me as a replacement...)04:28
robbiethe1stEh, it's got a couple of issues - USB port was a definite design flaw.04:28
robbiethe1stOther than that, I've seen only random failures04:28
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robbiethe1stLike the LCD cable. Occasional failures, not everyone04:29
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TamyrRRRRMy first unit failed in such a way that the phone couldn't connect to the phone network04:29
robbiethe1stYeah, that's happened before04:29
robbiethe1stI've got a device(from Ebay) with a broken cellmodem04:30
TamyrRRRROh well, luckily I have a spare phone available to use at the moment04:32
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TamyrRRRRrobbiethe1st: Any hints on what to search for if I only need the cable? (I've found some dealers that seem to have the LCD itself)04:35
TamyrRRRRHeh, I see that the service manual warns you to be careful about not damaging the USB connector... :)04:38
robbiethe1stWith the device open, you can always throw some solder between the USB connector and the nearby metal covers.04:39
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TamyrRRRRMight be a good idea04:40
TamyrRRRRrobbiethe1st: Thanks for the hints, I guess I'll try to open the phone tomorrow or so and see if the cable is dislodged before I begin to order replacement parts online04:43
robbiethe1stfair enough04:44
robbiethe1stmake sure you have the right tools04:44
TamyrRRRRI'll have to buy a small torx driver I guess04:45
robbiethe1stIt's like a T3 or 404:45
TamyrRRRRAlthough as far as I can see I should be able to inspect one end of the top/bottom connector using just a small phillips driver04:46
TamyrRRRRThe service manual says not to reuse the screws by the way, is that something to be concerned about`04:47
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DocScrutinizer05TamyrRRRR: check chanlog for "FPC" yesterday05:00
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TamyrRRRRDocScrutinizer05: Thanks, I'm looking into it05:01
DocScrutinizer05and you don't need to be too concerned about new screws, I hardly ever heard they broke for anybody. But if you have a chance to get new ones, I'd do05:02
DocScrutinizer05you got L1_2 servie manual?05:02
TamyrRRRRYep, I found Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_Service_Level_1_2.pdf on some of the seedier parts of the net05:03
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DocScrutinizer05you may want to connect N900 to TV, it might give some hints of what's going on05:05
TamyrRRRRAh, good idea05:05
DocScrutinizer05usually broken FPC finally causes AV-out to also fail05:06
DocScrutinizer05but I had same problem, and initially TV shown some semi-usable screen display still05:06
TamyrRRRROdd. (Since the AV-out is on the bottom part.)05:06
DocScrutinizer05later it collabsed to a green line in middle of TV screen05:07
DocScrutinizer05seems the sync for all framebuffers is entangled05:07
TamyrRRRRMakes sense i guess (although if they cared that much about sync you'd think they would have enabled VSync mode in the software... :))05:07
DocScrutinizer05I actually have no really good story why FPC has such big impact on the whole device. But I know it has05:08
DocScrutinizer05if you like to investigate by yourself: there's also the schematics available05:09
DocScrutinizer05you may want to check my exploded gallery too:
DocScrutinizer05and maybe docs in hidden there ;-)05:11
DocScrutinizer05TamyrRRRR: NB you won't need a new LCD, just the main flex board05:13
TamyrRRRRThanks :)05:13
TamyrRRRRI was thinking along those lines as well05:13
DocScrutinizer05link I posted yesterday is ~15 bucks05:13
DocScrutinizer05quite reasonably priced, taking into account it has camera, ALS, proxy sensor, LED and probably several parts I forgot05:14
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TamyrRRRROh, the joys of unstable radeon drivers05:16
DocScrutinizer05though odds are your device suffered more severe breakage on mainboard when you drop it05:16
TamyrRRRRWell, it is worth a try at least05:16
DocScrutinizer05usually this results in balls' solder joints breaking, on the large BGA chips05:17
DocScrutinizer05you already found a TV?05:17
TamyrRRRRNo, too late to mess with the TV today as I'll wake up the spouse :)05:18
DocScrutinizer05please keep me updated on your findings05:18
TamyrRRRRAlthough I'm afraid she may have heard a few choice words when I discovered what had happened to my poor N900... :/05:18
DocScrutinizer05ping me any time and just post here, I'm occasionally reading each post05:18
TamyrRRRRI'll try to do that05:19
DocScrutinizer05btw when FPC ('cable') breaks, that's most usually the connector end, a sandwich of B2B-connector, flex board, and a piggyback rigid board with jumper coper traces, all three soldered together. Obviously it's not the sturdiest design to have three frexible flat objects soldered togeter, the joints break when you slightly bend the whole contraption05:23
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DocScrutinizer05(basically same as with large BGA chips and PCB board, only those are way more rigid than the flex board)05:26
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TamyrRRRRAnyway, thanks for the hints, I'll try to disassemble the phone tomorrow (or later this week depending on time constraints) to inspect the FPC05:29
DocScrutinizer05sure thing, drop by and let me know what you find, as well as any questions05:30
DocScrutinizer05also check your vibrator motor05:30
DocScrutinizer05It's actually a tad strange that this doen't kick anymore on early boot05:31
TamyrRRRRWhere is the vibrator motor located? Top or bottom part?05:31
DocScrutinizer05top next to powerbutton05:31
DocScrutinizer05err bottom05:31
DocScrutinizer05on top of bottom part ;-P05:32
TamyrRRRRBasically, it is not connected via FPC05:32
DocScrutinizer05the large silvery block05:32
TamyrRRRRWhich I guess may point to a more significant problem :/05:32
DocScrutinizer05or your true problem is vibrator motor came off and now shorting sth05:33
DocScrutinizer05you may shake the device thoroughly and listen/feel if anything's loose05:34
TamyrRRRRDoesn't sound like that (at least not when holding down SIM/SD-card holders)05:35
DocScrutinizer05aaah yeah, I just thought "no SIM, no PIN query"05:35
DocScrutinizer05if it's really SIM PIN and not your device lockcode05:36
TamyrRRRRRight, might make it easier to start the device05:36
DocScrutinizer05also check for screen without backlight, or maybe backlight on black screen05:37
TamyrRRRRI hear the Nokia jingle after a short while when booting device without SIM05:37
DocScrutinizer05well, kinda05:37
DocScrutinizer05could be anything now05:37
DocScrutinizer05from loose B2B-connector to broken BGA chip soldering05:38
TamyrRRRRHmm, the vibrator is connected to the same chip that handles the backlight driver it seems like...05:39
TamyrRRRRWhich is kind of worrying05:40
DocScrutinizer05all GAIA aka twl403005:40
TamyrRRRRYep, at least according to the schematics05:40
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GGonthought it was time to give up the old ways... getting too old for nicks like "Mace" heh05:42
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TamyrRRRRDocScrutinizer05: Hmm, when I press the middle of the keyboard I hear some weird mechanical noise that I haven't heard before05:46
TamyrRRRRNot the usual vibration sound (I hear the same sound even when no battery is connected to the device)05:48
TamyrRRRROh well, I'll have to open up the device I guess (or send it for warranty replacement, but I hesitate to do so because I've already done it once before :)05:49
DocScrutinizer05I meant maybe it's the loose vibrator now doing some noise on deformation of device by pressing on it05:49
TamyrRRRRCould be05:50
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DocScrutinizer05TamyrRRRR: no more waranty replacements of N90005:50
DocScrutinizer05Nokia has no more spares05:50
TamyrRRRRI had problems with that a few months ago when I got a replacement for my N900 (they tried to foist a Symbian device on me)05:51
TamyrRRRRDidn't even have the decency of trying to "upgrade" me to a Windows phone05:51
TamyrRRRROh well, time to get some sleep now, later all05:52
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kerioTamyrRRRR et al.: keep fighting against nokia care claiming that any device but a n900 is useless to you - try to get them to give you a phone from the current smartphone lineup, then sell it on ebay and buy an adequate number of used n900s09:55
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keriodoes nicing swapoff actually do something?11:20
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keriohm, it does11:36
kerioi should probably ionice it too11:36
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jon_ykerio: tell Nokia care that the latest phone is the N900, there are none other :)12:19
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jon_yits true, Nokia has not produced any phones since the N900 :)12:22
jon_ythe N900 is sadly no longer in production, so afaik, they've been idling12:23
tadzikno wonder the stock value goes down12:23
tadzik"uhm, guys, there's been three years, maybe you produce something?"12:24
tadzik"naah, what for, we can just sell Qt or something"12:24
jon_yMicroSD cards now defile phones, rule34 now in effect on SD cards :|12:25
tadzikwell, I have an SDcard for N900, but it's only for toying with Nemo12:25
tadzik32 GB is quite enough for me12:25
jon_yis Nemo usable for everyday stuff?12:26
jon_yimportant, call recording12:26
tadzikI don't think it can record calls12:26
tadzikyou can do calls though12:26
tadzikI wanted to give it a one day go (use it for 24 hours), but I though "I'll fix contact importing first, maybe", and was unable to setup a devel env since then ;)12:27
jon_yI kind of have crap memory, so call recording is important12:27
tadzikmaybe I'll have some tuits on weekend12:27
Luke-Jrjon_y: I don't think *any* phone supports call recording… and you have to be careful since it's criminal in some jurisdictions12:28
Luke-Jr(unless you tell every single person you talk to..)12:29
jon_ymy Meamo N900 does it fine12:29
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jon_yLuke-Jr: yeah, only criminals are allowed to record calls :)12:29
jon_yapt-cache search record12:29
Luke-Jrjon_y: pretty much :/12:29
jon_yI can't remember the exact name12:30
jon_yit auto records when the phone is answered12:30
jon_ythe only problem it has is that your own voice volume is kind of soft12:30
jon_yother than that, it's good12:31
jon_ytell it to record as mp4, wav is overkill12:32
jon_yI have a year's worth of audio recording on a tiny 8GB SDcard12:32
jon_ythen again, I don't call much12:32
jon_yneeds logrotate integration :)12:33
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pavi_Offline maps - What all are possible ? I saw a link for but the site for files seems to be down12:34
Luke-Jrgood luck with that <.<12:34
tadzikpavi_: I use modrana and sometimes agtl with offline maps12:35
tadzikunless you mean maps as "The Maps"12:35
pavi_modrana ?12:35
pavi_lemme check it12:35
tadzikit's nice12:35
jon_yI just get a dedicated GPS unit :)12:36
jon_yn900 too short battery life12:36
tadzikyeah, true12:36
jon_yI don't have mmmonster batteries12:36
jon_ydem 3000mAH batteries12:36
pavi_N900 is fine with GPS provided you disconnect the GPRS/3G after you get the fix12:37
pavi_tadzik, modrana seems to be a nice GPS app , what map tiles are in background ?12:38
edheldilOSm, I think12:38
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pavi_Nice if it is OSM . I dont want the crappy nokia or google12:39
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edheldilBut the interface used to be so unintuitive I was not able to use it for navigation. Might be better now12:39
Luke-Jrinstalling recaller produced no binaries,  menu items, or settings items12:39
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tadzikpavi_: could be OSM, can be also google, OSM for bikes and other stuff12:41
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pavi_tadzik, you sure I could use it offline .12:42
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edheldilLuke-Jr:  look for a desktop widget12:42
jon_ypavi_: why disconnect GPRS/3G?12:42
tadzikI'm using it offline all the time12:42
tadzikjon_y: bills :)12:42
tadzikespecially abroad12:42
jon_yit's doing agps?12:42
tadzikit can be12:42
jon_yok, makes sense12:42
pavi_jon_y, YES AGPS .12:43
jon_yturn off the modem12:43
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pavi_LOL  manual fix ?12:43
pavi_10 minutes ?12:44
ShadowJKif you use it regulary, time to first fix without agps is under a minute12:44
tadzikif you use it in the same area, too12:45
pavi_wow never tried .12:45
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pavi_whats the first fix duration on a clear sky ?12:45
tadzikyou never know12:46
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pavi_I bet the battery will die before we get the fix :P12:46
jon_ycould be up to 10 minutes12:46
chem|stjon_y: 12minutes12:46
jon_ychem|st: is that the max limit?12:47
chem|stthat is the cache repeat time12:47
chem|stso if it does not have a fix after 12minutes there might be a receiving error12:47
pavi_ohh is it?12:47
jon_yok, I just moved 12 timezones away from my last use position :)12:48
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pavi_on the other hand what does nokia maps do when opened ?12:52
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pavi_takes lot of time to settle down12:53
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tadzikfor (;;)12:58
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pavi_tadzik, installed and tried modrana very nice :) Dunno why I didnt know about this before13:03
pavi_I used mappero , maep13:03
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pavi_ maemo-mapper was suggested , nice interface but I dont think it supports a download option13:05
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lartza_pavi_: mappero supports downloading offline tiles13:09
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lartza_1. get route from google 2. download tiles with different zoom levels along the route (menu -> maps -> manage maps)13:10
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kerioholy shit modrana requires a shitton of packages13:11
kerioincluding espeak13:11
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pavi_kerio, yeah worth it , you get a qml app as well as bonus :P13:14
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keriohm, modrana qml is just a black screen here13:19
keriomaybe it's just loading13:19
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pavi_ohh lemme check13:20
kerioand then it crashes13:20
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tadzikyeah, the qml ui is LTA13:21
tadzikas in, "doesn't work"13:21
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pavi_modrana is 11 MB for install aka 11 rupees on my BSNL 3G .13:22
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pavi_Guys any news on Jolla mobile ? Me thinking of buying something with a better touch screen .13:48
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* ShadowJK thinks it'll be along time, if ever, before a batter touchscreen appears14:10
kerioShadowJK: well, resistive/capacitive hybrids do exist14:11
kerioand they're neat14:11
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jacekowskii've seen that screen used in samsung note14:15
jacekowskibut that's inductive+capacitive14:15
ShadowJKOne annoyance I have with my 10" tablet is that it sometimes does stuff even if you dont touch it, just if finger is close enough14:16
ShadowJKand impossible to hold near screen or it stops registering presses elsewhere14:16
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pavi_I am not that particular on touch screen but I mean a modern touch with as much freedom as you can ? Is n9 still good after nokia ditching it ?14:18
pavi_I mean is it worth asking a relative buying it off amazon in europe and ask him to bring it to india ?14:19
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* ShadowJK wouldn't associate freedom with N914:20
keriopavi_: eeeh14:21
pavi_The best thing I like about N900 is the keyboard :(14:21
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keriomy n900 broke down, i bought another one14:22
keriothere's just nothing remotely similar around14:23
* pavi_ hopes Jolla mobile would come up with a "libre" phone with keyboard . 14:23
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pavi_I follow the maemo news letter and all I get is N9 that N950 that updates .. what about N900 ? Recently saw a kindle book reader app for them and was sad :(14:25
edheldilpavi_:  there's btw a decent sliding kbd for eyePhone as well14:26
* edheldil ducks14:26
pavi_lol is eyephone libre ?14:27
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pavi_check this out N950 bid crossed 1500 pounds
pavi_Damn you nokia !14:32
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if somebody at Nokia will overbid every insane offer14:55
* DocScrutinizer05 stares at his N95014:56
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* N950 stares back14:56
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tadziksorry, couldn't resist14:56
DocScrutinizer05honestly, I coul dget ~15 N900 for the N95014:57
DocScrutinizer05or afford a whole month of nice holiday, unpaid15:00
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chem|stor 5 n9 64gb or a car or 3 weeks chartered sailing...15:05
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chem|st~slap n95015:06
* infobot slaps n950, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!15:06
* n950 scurries nonchalantly off, in a still quickening pace15:06
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kerio~nuke Elop15:09
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Elop ... B☢☢M!15:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: pff, 15 N900s are better15:09
chem|stkerio: I'd go sailing!15:09
kerioyou could change N900 every two days for a month!15:10
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: depends. When you live in a depot with tons of them, maybe 15 less are a tiny relief ;-P15:13
keriodo you live in a depot with tons of them?15:13
DocScrutinizer05not yet15:13
DocScrutinizer05with 15 more - yes15:14
DocScrutinizer05actually one of the reasons to ponder selling some of those critters is lack of space on my desk15:15
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keriogive me one15:15
kerioi promise i'll charge it and update it and keep it warm15:15
kerioand i won't abuse its usb port!15:16
kerioman, the openmoko phones were ugly15:17
keriois that a winmo6 samsung? :o15:18
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DocScrutinizer05well, at that time I bought hw for refrence reasons15:20
chem|stthose new lumias look like someone is thinking about dockingstations again15:20
DocScrutinizer05and often disassembled and binned it15:20
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DocScrutinizer05new lumias?15:21
chem|st920 82015:21
DocScrutinizer05hmm, i'm not following the pursuit of buying hw for disassembly anymore15:21
keriobuy that n95015:22
keriodisassembly it15:22
kerioreassembly it15:22
kerioand then blend it15:22
DocScrutinizer05so without any URL I guess I won't even google15:22
chem|stuh beware nokia it has rounded edges and a display and a dedicated home button on the front...15:24
Lava_CroftI saw someone tweet about how it remains weird to see your girlfriend with another man15:24
Lava_Croft(regarding new Lumia devices)15:24
Lava_Croftnaw, girlfriend15:24
Lava_Croftim a happy N9 user15:24
Lava_Croftand Nokia still sells the N9 iirc15:24
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DocScrutinizer05AHAAAAA Lumia920, now I know what I worked on for the last year ;-P15:27
chem|styour job was related?15:28
DocScrutinizer05"...has LTE with European bands"15:28
DocScrutinizer05mind you, Nokia sold own modem chip fab to renesas15:29
DocScrutinizer05so they need to buy their modem chips from 2nd source now15:29
DocScrutinizer05you know where I worked15:29
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chem|stah ok15:31
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DocScrutinizer05now that also makes perfect sense that even 'our' employees had to sign a special NDA "in blood" when they needed access to the sources of Nokia15:32
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DocScrutinizer05I accidentally requested access to that usergroup. Almost felt like next second the security will roll in our office ;-P15:34
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chem|stanyone from berlin here?15:34
DocScrutinizer05not that I know of15:35
DocScrutinizer05maemo not cool enuf for Berlin ;-P15:36
chem|stso I need to take both devices with me!15:36
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: are the security armed? :)15:39
DocScrutinizer05I never really met them, but I think they have tasers and stuff15:39
jon_ywatch bad boys 2, now with phones instead of drugs15:40
jon_ysmuggling samsung phones by the crate from south america15:40
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jon_ytasers, sounds bad15:41
jon_ywhere I work, they just go around with batons15:41
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: maybe you'll get a visit from your manager instead :)15:42
DocScrutinizer05I already quit that job, so... prolly not15:42
jon_yah ok :)15:43
DocScrutinizer05AWESOME picture (Germans only!)
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if she brought that brick from ex-GDR15:44
jon_yI have actually seen those "portable" phones15:45
jon_ygiant antenna15:45
jon_yfrom Motorola15:45
EdheldilI used to carry one with giant heatsink, foldable antenna and a handset on a twisted cord15:46
Edheldilprobably motorola as well15:46
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jon_ySim card was credit card size iirc15:50
DocScrutinizer05I know those as well15:51
DocScrutinizer05the suitcase with spiralcord and handset was awesome ;-P15:51
DocScrutinizer05only like 6kg15:51
jon_ymurder weapon indeed15:52
EdheldilI had to carry it everywhere when I was on a duty call15:52
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keriowhat kind of batteries were used at that time?15:52
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tadzik. o O ( running hamsters )15:53
Edheldillions, probably?15:53
keriothe animal kind?15:53
DocScrutinizer05Edheldil: no way15:53
DocScrutinizer05NiCad if you were lucky, I guess15:54
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Edheldilah, ok15:54
Edheldilsounds more plausibe15:54
Edheldilthey we weighingabout 2kg, I guess, size of a longshot glass15:54
DocScrutinizer05might even have been sealed lead acid X-P15:54
jon_yhah, I remember NiCd batteries15:55
jon_ycrappy capacity memory15:55
jon_yyou have a special procedure to dischare and recharge15:55
EdheldilI always relied on a phone to do that correctly ;-)15:56
DocScrutinizer05well, better than sealed Pb: those were like LiIon: once discharge completely, never take any charge again15:56
fizzieWe had this particular model  plus some kind of a car adapter so that you could stick the phone part in trunk, and take the "headset" part in the car.15:56
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, exactly15:57
DocScrutinizer05that's how they looked15:57
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DocScrutinizer05motorola 1000 is what I recall16:00
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* DocScrutinizer05 sadly wonders how long til N950 value will drop due to interest cooling down16:08
EdheldilDocScrutinizer05:  I had st. similar to that one, but not quite ... I haven't yet found an image of the phone I used :(16:14
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chem|stis what my dad had, same car other gear-shift16:18
DocScrutinizer05dafaq this opel senator had a pretty futuristic instrument board16:20
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DocScrutinizer05for that time16:21
DocScrutinizer05I had a opel with same tripmaster "computer" but way more 'normal' dials on instrument board16:22
DocScrutinizer05awesome how the speed meter is digital but the car has automatic shift plus "analog" RPM meter ;-P16:23
DocScrutinizer05pretty nonsensical16:23
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DocScrutinizer05and I already used Nokia 2110 at that time ;-D16:28
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kerio battery pack!16:30
kerioit bears a striking resemblance to the n900 with three 18650s taped on the backcover16:31
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DocScrutinizer05eeek, sealed Pb battery16:32
kerioyeah :D16:32
vi_DocScrutinizer05: where did you work?16:32
vi_when you had to sign an NDA in blood to see Nokia sources for modem.16:33
DocScrutinizer05google novathor16:33
vi_I might be moving back into embedded systems.16:33
kerioCurrently, the only devices which are powered by NovaThor use the Android operating system.16:33
kerioDocScrutinizer05: >:c16:33
kerioand windows phone 8 apparently16:34
kerioBUT NO MAEMO16:34
vi_But my company are hard determined to buttfuck me.16:34
vi_kerio: Did you see the leaked pictures of N9 sucessor?16:35
keriono i did not16:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is it a good SoC?16:35
vi_kerio: Basically an N950 on steroids.16:35
tadzikah, the Rauta16:35
Lava_CroftLauta basically was N9 with keyboard16:35
Lava_Croftwell, exactly16:35
tadzikis it even legit?16:35
vi_yeah that thing.16:35
Lava_CroftLooked pretty legit to me16:36
kerioit was pretty16:36
vi_never made it past POC prototype.16:36
* kerio shakes his fist at Elop16:36
Lava_Croftyes blame elop16:36
Lava_Croftnot the people who ran Nokia before him16:36
Lava_Croftthat makes total sense16:36
kerioit's all elop's fault16:36
vi_It is ALL OBAMAS FAULT.16:36
Lava_Croftits easy to blame elop since he comes from MS16:36
Lava_Croftand most nerds are as dumb as most other folks16:37
Lava_Croftso they just jump on the blame elop bandwagon16:37
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Lava_Croftwhile its actually the Finns that screwed up Nokia before Elop who are to blame16:37
Lava_Croftand the people who hired Elop16:37
vi_I think elop just had the balls to cut the life support, that is all.16:37
tadzikI thought there was some sort of agreement between Nokia and MS to not produce anything but Winphones for 3 years or so16:37
Lava_CroftElop does exactly what he is hired for16:37
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tadzikthat's what I heard here somewhere at least16:37
totalizatorI've just reflashed my old N800 and meh, this device is soo cool - bulletproof usb port, large screen, out of the box usb host mode that works <316:38
vi_However announcing symbian was dead was a little stoopid.16:38
Lava_Croftwe 'hear' a lot of things coming from the pool of unfounded anti-elop sentiment16:38
kerioLava_Croft: to be fair, he's hired by microsoft to devalue nokia so that it can be bought for less16:38
Lava_Croftyes, vi_16:38
Lava_Croftkerio: stop dreaming16:38
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vi_he could have just phased it out gracefully.16:38
Lava_Crofthe was hired by a bunch of Finns to change Nokia16:38
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Lava_Croftafter the Finns before him completely failed16:38
Lava_Croftseveral times over16:38
vi_blame finn labour laws.16:39
Lava_Croftpeople piss on Elop, but at least Elop takes action16:39
Edheldilthat still does not mean he's not responsible (as well) :)16:39
vi_Maybe if they could have fired some of thosedead weight symbian developers.16:39
Lava_CroftHe is cleaning up the way he can and the way he is expected to16:39
Lava_CroftNobody hires an ex-MS guy and expects him to warmly hug stuff like Maemo/Meego16:39
Lava_CroftIf you want to rage at anyone, rage a the people that screwed up and then hired Elop16:40
Lava_CroftTo clean up their mess16:40
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vi_I will rage at the ballsack who imp-lemented aegis.16:40
Edheldilso his decisions WERE biased by his previous employer? ;-)16:40
Lava_CroftEdheldil: what do you expect when you hire an ex-MS guy?16:40
vi_Edheldil: Why do you think they hired an ex-MS guy?16:41
vi_Edheldil: By accident?16:41
Lava_CroftElop was hired by Nokia with a specific reason16:41
Lava_CroftThe reason might not specifically have been to transition completely to Windows, but it sure as hell was to be expected16:41
Sicelowhat is the Finnish mess you're talking about Lava_Croft?16:41
Edheldilvi_:  personally I think they were already courting MS16:41
Lava_CroftSicelo: Nokia is a Finnish company that was ran by Finns16:42
Siceloand the mess.....16:42
Lava_CroftThe mess that is Symbian, the mess that is Maemo16:42
Lava_Croftwhy did it take to 2011 to get an answer to the iphone16:42
Lava_Crofta half-finished answer16:42
Lava_Croftif the Finnish Nokia leadership actually pushed Maemo they might have had a proper iphone contender quite a bit sooner16:43
keriosymbian was the answer to the iphone before the iphone was even rumoured16:43
DocScrutinizer05totalizator: wait what? You just said h-e-n doesn't work? >:-(16:43
Lava_Croftbut they went down the road of having several teams combat each other16:43
Lava_Croftbasically the Sony route16:43
Lava_CroftSymbian vs Maemo vs whatever16:43
Lava_CroftPeople have trouble looking back further than Elop's dumb burning platform memo16:43
Edheldilwell, the leadership was chaotic before Elop, that's sure16:44
Siceloyour statemets sound more like a management problem than a platform/technology/innovation problem16:44
Lava_Croftit certainly isnt chaotic now16:44
Lava_CroftSicelo: exactly16:44
totalizatorDocScrutinizer05: ok, it works but it's a bit troublesome (comparing to N8xx)16:44
Lava_Croftbut a managed problem becomes a platform/tech/innovation problem16:44
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's good if you put a self-powered usb hub in front of the n90016:44
* Sicelo doubts16:44
Lava_Croftit starts at the management, they make the decisions16:44
Lava_Croftits not the fine folks who brought us Maemo that make the decisions16:45
DocScrutinizer05totalizator: yeah, it's as good as we could make it16:45
Edheldilso what? I dislike Elop because he buried what was a nice platform.16:45
DocScrutinizer05given the totally fsckdup hw re USB in N90016:45
Lava_CroftI dislike Elop for not giving Meego a  chance either16:46
Lava_Croftbut I cant really blame it on him16:46
Lava_CroftCant blame the cat for eating the fish16:46
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keriono but you can kick him the fuck out16:46
Lava_CroftBesides, Nokia already screwed up Maemo by going with Meego16:47
keriotogether with the people who let it in16:47
Lava_Croftwhat good is that going to do16:47
keriovengeance, i suppose16:47
Lava_Croftbesides make a few uninformed nerds happy16:47
EdheldilLava_Croft:  n9 is maemo, though16:47
Lava_Croftyes, but ruined Maemo16:47
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tadzik ruined in what way? (curious)16:48
keriotadzik: portrait16:48
* kerio flees16:48
Lava_Croftcompared to the awesome OS i have on my n900, the N9 just feels a bit weird16:48
kerioalso no hwkbd16:48
DocScrutinizer05HARM is as much maemo as Android is linux16:48
tadzikthat's not maemo related16:48
Lava_Croftwith its awful attempt at looking like Meego16:48
kerioyes it is16:48
tadzikthe lack of keyboard? Oh please16:48
SiceloLava_Croft: so you say Elop has solved the Finnish mess?16:48
Lava_Croftthats a hardware problem16:48
keriothe lack of a physical keyboard changes *a lot* in the interaction modes16:48
vi_N9 is like a castrated N900.16:48
EdheldilLava_Croft:  Elop is a good catchy name for someone's gripe with Nokia,  bear with that16:48
Lava_CroftSicelo: I have no idea16:49
totalizatorDocScrutinizer05: and I can really appreciate it as on N900 I can have things like working  mouse cursor working without any problems and many other useful stuff16:49
Lava_CroftTime will tell16:49
Lava_Crofti know for sure the N9 and Harmattan wouldnt have saved Nokia16:49
Edheldileven if the problem is more complex and not entirely his fault16:49
Sicelohe's been there at least 1.5 years now16:49
Lava_CroftI love my N9, but its in no way a real competitor for the iPhone, for example16:49
kerioLava_Croft: well16:49
vi_or the n900.16:49
keriodoes it have angry birds?16:49
Lava_Croftwe are not talking about pleasing nerds here16:49
Lava_Croftbut pleasing the masses16:49
vi_the masses voted for hitler.16:49
Lava_Croftthey also pay your bills, if you are Nokia16:50
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Siceloanyway, i'm talking form POV of the masses.. has he restored their confidence in Nokia?16:50
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Lava_CroftLike I said, i have no idea16:50
DocScrutinizer05vi_: if N9 is the neutered N900, what's the N950 then?16:50
Lava_CroftAt least he has a clear route16:50
Lava_Croftand a clear goal16:50
DocScrutinizer05the uber-N900? The gone-mad-N900?16:50
vi_DocScrutinizer05: an autistic donkey.16:50
Sicelowhat routhe?16:50
kerioDocScrutinizer05: a strapon16:50
Lava_Croftthe route of Windows Phone :|16:51
Lava_CroftMind you, im a die-hard Maemo lover16:51
vi_A hermaphrodite.16:51
kerioDocScrutinizer05: or maybe the weird experiment made by the mad scientist16:51
vi_Well I am a die hard functionality lover.16:51
EdheldilLava_Croft:  the problem is that the (un)informed geeks are not sure whether his route is benefiting Nokia foremost, or a certain Redmond company16:51
vi_Lack of multitasking==fucking fail.16:52
Lava_CroftThe geeks are not the ones keeping the company afloat16:52
Lava_Croftunless they all buy 500 phones16:52
Lava_Croftor more16:52
vi_wtf is a geek?16:52
kerioLava_Croft: the masses buy symbian phones16:52
Lava_Croftthey dont16:52
SiceloLava_Croft: i have nothing against the man, but, here in Africa, Nokia died to Samsung as soon as Symbian was pronounced dead16:52
Lava_Croftthey buy iphones and android phones16:52
keriook, let me rephrase that16:52
keriothe masses buy cheap phones16:52
Lava_CroftSicelo: yes, Elop made a mistake there:)16:52
Lava_Croftand not a small one either16:52
Lava_CroftI think even the man himself acknowledged this16:53
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Lava_Croftbut you cannot disagree that at least now Nokia has a clear goal and is actually working hard towards it16:53
Lava_Crofti think the problem with most geeks is the MS hate16:53
Lava_Croftmore than anything else16:53
Lava_Croftits MS and therefore its the spawn of the devil16:53
Lava_Croftcommon nerd logic16:53
Edheldilit is, btw.16:53
Lava_Croftnot really16:53
Lava_CroftMS is no better or worse than Nokia, Google, Apple or whatever16:54
Lava_Croftjust another company making money16:54
ZogG_laptopit depends16:54
DocScrutinizer05Nokia made still shitloads of money with low-end featurephones, though they moaned about vanishing margins. But to declare Sybian dead was cutting the tree they live on16:54
ZogG_laptopsome do inovations, some sue others16:54
Edheldilwell ... I could agree with apple, but nokia used to be better, in my eyes16:54
Lava_Croftand MS doesnt innovate?16:54
ZogG_laptopit's like we compete and i want to be better, while you just changing judges opinion behind my back16:55
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, where?16:55
Lava_Croftforgot how they single handedly changed the entire console market?16:55
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, Xerox idea, Dos was bought.16:55
Lava_Croftand own it now?16:55
SiceloWP8 supports uSD :P16:55
jacekowskiWP7 did as well16:56
Lava_Croftwhile MS is not my company of choice, if they really want something, they do have the motivation and deep pockets to get it done16:56
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, what console market? i have no info on console market at all.16:56
Lava_Croftlike with the Xbox for example16:56
Lava_Croftconsole, game consoles16:56
ZogG_laptopXbox is better, just coz it easier crackable :P16:56
Edheldilthey do have the motivation and deep pockets to get it <-- here, amended it for you ;-)16:56
kerios/easier //16:57
Lava_Croftlife would be better without people living in the 90s and hating on MS16:57
ZogG_laptopkerio, PS3 is cracked :P16:57
kerionot really16:57
kerionot in any meaningful way16:57
ZogG_laptopkerio, yes it is :P16:57
EdheldilPS3 is, xbox360 is not16:57
kerioand the x360 is hardly "cracked"16:57
kerioit's modchippable16:57
ZogG_laptopthey do not release it publicly after sony sueing and other reasons16:58
keriothe only truly cracked console of this generation is the wii16:58
kerioand that's hardly this generation16:58
ZogG_laptopwii is not even a console :P16:58
DocScrutinizer05thank God it's Friday16:58
ZogG_laptopit's just a joke :P16:58
Edheldilps3's private keys were lifted from the device16:58
DocScrutinizer05ooh wait....16:58
Sicelolol DocScrutinizer05 :P16:58
kerioDocScrutinizer05: just start your weekend earlier16:58
kerionobody will notice16:59
Siceloat least i'm at home, Independence day here ;)16:59
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05, what is the coctail of your choice today/16:59
DocScrutinizer05I don't usually drink any alcohol, maybe one beer occasionally. Cocktails not really a usual beverage here17:00
DocScrutinizer05anyway my Friday quote above was related to virtual Friday known on IRC as OT day and usually filled with wild discussions and flamewars about what OS is better or why MS sucks so much17:01
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05, may i correct you17:03
EdheldilLava_Croft:  I have read a quote once, which ran st. like "We now think that MS becomes better not because they do, but because the others have became worse"17:03
ZogG_laptopit actually is not people saying why MS sucks so much, people do know that. It's just few people trying to explain why it doesn't :P17:03
Lava_CroftEdheldil: And?17:05
ZogG_laptopi like their mouses17:05
ZogG_laptopi use those simple white ones17:05
Lava_CroftI'm sorry, but all MS hatred just comes across as childish stupidty to me17:05
ZogG_laptopand i have 2 for laptop :P17:05
Lava_Croftas if one big company is any better than another big company17:05
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Lava_CroftMS-haters are just as silly as those Apple-fans17:06
tadzikor Apple-haters, for that matter17:06
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, i don't care when people use MS. i just prefer not to. And i more hate politics and HW/SW companies who sold out to support only one system17:06
ZogG_laptopBorat, lol17:06
tadzik"sold out", big words17:07
Lava_Crofthow did anyone sell out here17:07
tadzikthey're companies. They are aimed at making money above everything else17:07
tadziknothing else matters, it's quite simple17:07
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Lava_Croftthey are not NGO's or something, living off donations and trying to make the world better17:07
Edheldilwell, often they were extorted not to sell anything else, were not they?17:07
Lava_Croftthey are just in it to make money17:07
ZogG_laptoptadzik, look, for example when in ministure of education they decided to buy i7 with latest windows for people who barely can use office, i think some people made money on that :17:08
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jon_yhave spoken to the sales droids that work there? :)17:08
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tadzikZogG_laptop: I don't see how that's related17:08
tadzikyes, the world is bad, I'm aware17:08
Lava_Croftjon_y: at NGO;? hah yes:D17:08
tadzikC'est la vie17:08
Lava_Croftsilly me! :)17:08
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: the amount of inspiration, professionality and vision is different though between those big companies17:08
jon_yI feel sad today, a broadband sales droid approached me17:08
tadzikZogG_laptop: I have a similar situation in the local gov17:09
ZogG_laptoptadzik, it's some people who represent MS and some people who make decision, those two made money(taxes)17:09
jon_yhe can't answer any technical info17:09
DocScrutinizer05in that regard MS always just copied and did it even worse than original17:09
jon_ythe package sounds good on paper17:09
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05: the amount of inspiration is probably the same, but the amount of freedom this inspiration recieves from management indeed differs greatly per company17:09
jon_yalmost too good17:09
Lava_Croftand DocScrutinizer05 thats not true:)17:09
Lava_Crofti can point out the silly Xbox again:)17:09
Lava_Croftalso, while Windows may be copied, Windows7 is actually the best mainstream desktop OS there is17:10
Lava_Crofti cant really help it17:10
* tadzik ducks17:10
Edheldiltadzik:  here the govt purchases were so bribed, that finally they start to arrest them, after 20 or so years17:10
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, i prefer linux here :P17:10
Lava_CroftLinux is not an OS17:10
Edheldilnot enough, though17:10
Lava_Croftnor a mainstream desktop OS17:10
tadzikEdheldil: arrest whom?17:10
jon_ytadzik: javascript :)17:10
tadzikjon_y: no, I meant a Microsoft invention that's actually not bad :)17:10
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, mainstream? you mean popular? and why it's not an OS?17:10
tadzikor at least some folks I know say so17:11
Lava_Croftits a kernel17:11
jon_yyes yes, I've been told Java is cool and can be used to write low level drivers17:11
jon_ynot sure if its true17:11
ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, Gnu/Linux17:11
tadzikI mean people I respect17:11
tadzikoh, cut off this GNU/Blah, please17:11
Lava_Croftand i didnt mention popular, i mentioned mainstream17:11
ZogG_laptopubuntu (which i don't like) is getting more popular everyday17:11
Lava_Crofttadzik: the mobile space made the GNU/Linux usage actually more important than ever17:11
jon_yI thought mint over took ubuntu?17:11
Lava_Croftbecause Android lovers might think they run the same Linux as our N917:11
jon_yheh, I can feel the scorn17:12
tadzikI meant the GNU/ prefix in naming17:12
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ZogG_laptopLava_Croft, meh, i hate all those GNU/linux vs Linux corrections :)17:12
Lava_Croftyes, as do i:)17:12
Lava_Crofthey, it never really made any sense until android came along:)17:12
tadzikoh, I see the point :)17:12
ZogG_laptopok back to project17:12
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tadzikso whenever somebody blindly s/Linux/GNU\/Linux/ you can throw android in his face17:13
Lava_Croftor when some Android nerd says he loves his Linux phone, you throw whatever GNU/Linux at him!17:13
DocScrutinizer05android is not even linux17:13
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05 wakes up17:13
jon_yactually, I do tell my android loving friends that too17:14
jon_yandroid isn't GNU enough17:14
DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-06 15:48:30] <DocScrutinizer05> HARM is as much maemo as Android is linux17:14
jon_ynot GNU/Linux at all17:14
jon_yno glibc in android afaik17:15
EdheldilDepends on your definition of Linux, I think. But it's probably as much Linux as MacOS X is FreeBSD :)17:15
jon_yor ulibc17:15
DocScrutinizer05I said linux though, NOT gnu/linux17:15
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tadzikisn't the GNU/ prefix just about Stallman being sad that nobody gives him credit?17:15
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jon_ytadzik: no17:16
jon_yit refers to the userland+kernelland combo that you normally expect a Linux system to have17:16
Edheldilyou know, some people do agree with him17:16
tadzikI don't think GNU userland is the point of that OS17:16
tadzikyou can have GNU userland everywhere, it's the kernel that makes it different17:16
jon_yright, it refers to the combo17:17
EdheldilI personally do not care that much, but I prefer Debian ecosystem to RedHat's17:17
tadzikI probably wouldn't notice having anything different under the hood17:17
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tadzikor maybe I will, for /bin/true wouldn't be several kilobytes anymore17:18
jon_yhave you used BSD userland? it's not GNU :)17:18
tadzikI did, when I was running BSD17:18
tadzikand that's part of my point. It doesn't really matter17:18
tadzikbut, we digress17:18
jon_yit matters if you rely on GNU features17:18
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DocScrutinizer05digress? lol17:19
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Lava_Crofta proper GNU userland is the only reason i ever cared about Maemo17:19
jon_yvery much true for me too17:19
Lava_Croftor as proper as you can get17:19
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: good point, indeed17:19
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Lava_Crofti dont care what kernel it runs17:20
Lava_Croftas long as I have have access to much the same tools as on my desktop computer17:20
keriowell, not having /proc sucks17:20
keriobut that's just a matter of familiarity17:20
Siceloif i never came across n900, i most likely would never have used linux.17:20
jon_yI do care about the kernel though, so I can mess about with it17:20
jon_ycan't mess with iOS kernel17:20
Lava_Croftcant mess with iOS in general17:20
jon_ynor winmo kernel17:21
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keriojon_y: that's a bootloader problem though17:21
Lava_Croftexcept jailbreak, err HACK it17:21
keriodarwin *is* opensource17:21
kerioand it's not a bad kernel17:21
DocScrutinizer05if I hadn't used linux for years, I probably never had a look at Openmoko phones and thus never came to maemo17:21
kerioi mean, every modern mac runs it17:21
Lava_CroftI looked at openmoko and laughed, so i was happy Maemo came along17:21
jacekowskibut it's just kernel17:21
jacekowskiand besides, it's not exactly open source anymore17:22
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jacekowskiapple has not released anything for few years now17:22
keriojacekowski: really? :(17:22
keriomeh, i could've guessed it wouldn't last17:22
Lava_CroftWhy would Apple even continue that17:22
jon_yI'm guessing Darwin isn't GPL17:23
jacekowskiLatest unstable release10.0.0d8  (April 24, 2009) [±]17:23
jacekowskiit was developed by apple17:23
jacekowskion their own licence17:23
jacekowskiand well, they've decided to close it17:23
jon_ytoo bad17:23
Sicelojacekowski: the radio-bcm2048 code on your site is up to date?17:24
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Sicelokewl. i'd like to compile it for Nemo's kernel (to use with Debian though)17:25
Siceloalthough i don't have a good idea how to do that yet17:27
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jacekowskiSicelo: well, i've done mods to binaries17:30
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Timmyi have kernel power 50 on my device. can i install CSSU thumb?17:38
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Timmykuz it explained it needs kernel power 5117:38
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SiceloTimmy: iirc that has its own kernel17:39
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Timmypardon me?17:40
kerioTimmy: it installs its own kernel, but if you want to stay with kernel-power you should install kp51r117:40
kerioit's in extras-devel17:40
keriokernel-cssu is effectively the same, but packaged in a different way17:41
kerioi'd use KP5117:41
keriothe dependency is met by kernel-power-flasher 51r1 and by kernel-cssu17:41
Lava_Crofthaha, what17:42
kerio(the -thumb package require kernel-feature-<number>-errata)17:42
Lava_Crofttalk about nice 'hack'17:42
keriographite is a decent conductor17:42
kerioisn't it?17:42
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Sicelojacekowski: thanks for info. i still have some learning to do17:43
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Timmyim installing cssu thumb and it's telling me that i need to use pc suite on pc, what is this???? i don't understand, what's pc suite?17:51
kerioTimmy: there's a conflict somewhere17:52
kerioTimmy: did you install kernel-power 51r1?17:52
Timmyno, you said it will install its own kernel17:52
Sicelo PC suite :P17:53
kerioTimmy: that's probably the conflict17:53
keriojust upgrade kernel-power, seriously17:53
Timmyok, do i need to upgrade kernel-power-settings too?17:54
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keriosure, why not17:54
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keriohow do people stand not having the stuff correctly upgraded?17:54
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DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: bwahahaha18:23
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DocScrutinizer05~lart HAM "use PC suite mode" msg18:24
* infobot tries to shut HAM "use PC suite mode" msg up18:24
DocScrutinizer05epic obfuscated error msg, worse than most windoze msgs18:25
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DocScrutinizer05"Conflict! either solve manually, or reflash (e.g. using PCsuite)"  muuuuuch better18:26
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Timmyi was installing cssu but installation was i am going to install it again, but can't find the cssu enabler icon in the menu, where can i find it or how can i run it to install cssu?18:49
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DocScrutinizer05Timmy: how can cssu installation be unsuccessful?18:52
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DocScrutinizer05we actually never heard of an unsucessful CSSU install, when all advices from were obeyed18:54
kerioDocScrutinizer05: "use PC suite mode"18:54
kerioand he's talking about -thumb18:54
keriofreemangordon: *poke*18:54
kerioTimmy: cssu-thumb is not cssu18:54
Timmywell, i was going to install cssu thumb but didn't know kernel power 51 is needed for that, so due the installation (in the beginnig) i had canceled and installed KP5118:54
kerioTimmy: ask freemangordon for help18:54
kerioit's not *needed*, it's just better18:54
Timmyanyway, i cant find the icon in the menu to install that18:55
DocScrutinizer05there's no sane way to roll back a aborted install. You need full reflash and start from scratch18:55
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DocScrutinizer05and don't listen to kerio and the weird hackish tips he'll come up with in a second, you will make matters worse for you since you lose completely any teack of what's going on on your device18:57
kerioi suggested nothing18:57
kerioalthough apt-get upgrading could fix it18:57
DocScrutinizer05haha, yeah18:57
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kerioTimmy: do you have anything important on your n900?18:58
kerioand did you make a backup with backupmenu?18:58
Timmythere is nothin on my phone18:58
Timmybut i hate to reflash18:58
Timmyi prefer to run a broken maemo but not to reflash18:59
DocScrutinizer05we recently renamed that to "tickle the pony" so no matter to hate it anymore ;-P18:59
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keriotickle the pony?19:01
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DocScrutinizer05so you should go tickle your pony, then install backup menu, do backup, install cssu-t, do anohter BM-backup, then follow instructions about cssu-testing-thumb if that's what you *really* wanna do19:01
kerioyeah, i'd install cssu-testing and make sure it works before installing cssu-thumb19:01
DocScrutinizer05I have to admit I completely lost track of all this weird cssu-(testing|thumb|kernel|whatnot) mess19:03
DocScrutinizer05and for sure thumb is not ready for end users, esp regarding support in installation and maintenance19:04
DocScrutinizer05you'll need some advanced knowledge about apt and dpkg and how repos work and that kinda stuff19:04
vi_thumb is great19:04
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vi_DEAL WITH IT.19:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: actually, fmg claims that all you need to do is tap a .install link19:05
DocScrutinizer05so what? SMT also is great, still I don't suggest users should solder their own RAM extension19:05
DocScrutinizer05surface mount technology19:05
Timmyi've been a debian user for a long while but maemo is totally weird!19:05
kerioTimmy: nah, it's only moderately silly19:05
vi_If you cannot do your own 0603 you are a fag.19:05
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infoboti heard buzzfix is  and  and ff.19:06
DocScrutinizer05those friggin 0603 tend to disolve into air whenever you drop them on any -even clean and smooth - surface19:07
DocScrutinizer05they simply vanish19:07
DocScrutinizer05there must be special micro-wormholes for 060319:08
vi_Thats because they exist mainly at the quantum level.19:08
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vi_Their 3d extension into our physical space is extremely unstable.19:08
DocScrutinizer05never worked with 0201 though19:08
SpeedEvilthere is a mad guy over on ##electronics who's used them.19:09
DocScrutinizer05heard they literally disolve on PCB over time19:09
vi_You could probably breathe one and not even notice.19:09
SpeedEvilhe's also trying to setup a garage CMOS process.19:09
SpeedEviland make his own softcore FPGA laptop19:10
vi_SpeedEvil: bullshit19:10
DocScrutinizer05he's clearly doing all that just for fame19:10
vi_no one is that unhinged.19:10
SpeedEviloddly enough, he does seem to be.19:10
vi_a softcore FPGA laptop would suck.19:11
DocScrutinizer05donkey balls19:11
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SpeedEvilit's not for performance.19:11
DocScrutinizer05esp when made on "homebrew chips"19:11
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SpeedEvilwacky provable security. TCP/IP in firmware19:11
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vi_I wrote an SHA1 digest core in VHDL for my dissertation.19:12
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DocScrutinizer05I know the yiled of professional chip fabs on first few 1000 samples19:13
vi_I had wild dreams of compromising WPA19:13
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SpeedEvilit's a toy non serious process.19:13
vi_THen I discovered somone had already done it, better faster and bigger than I could even imagine.19:13
DocScrutinizer05and they got floor 'carpet' there that's more expensive per square meter than what you could probably afford to cram into a garage, as amateur19:14
vi_DocScrutinizer05: read that guys website.19:14
vi_DocScrutinizer05: You will spunk thick ropes of engineering jizz.19:14
DocScrutinizer05I'd be surprised if he made it to build a working CD40001 type quad gate19:15
SpeedEvilhe seems capable.19:16
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SpeedEvilit's. a hell of a lot of work to get to even a 50um process19:16
SpeedEvilespecially trying to avoid nasty reagents.19:17
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Woody14619ping chem|st19:18
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Woody14619doah... never mind... Looks like it was already taken care of. ;)  Thanks!19:20
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DocScrutinizer05cya folks19:25
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Timmykerio: just found out what to do, but again i see it's telling me about pc studio issue19:28
Timmyi have installed KP5119:29
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keriomaybe that's the problem19:34
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keriowhat does the log say?19:34
keriothere are a couple of configuration options you can set to make HAM tell you more about the problems19:34
Timmyim installing that through apt-get upgrade19:35
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DocScrutinizer05the probelm with maemo is nothing works as you might expect. e.g. apt-get upgrade usually breaks your system19:39
keriodoes not19:40
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DocScrutinizer05well, up to you to make Timmy hop another dozen loops and confuse him until finally.... whatever, but not we're talking him out of that mess then19:42
kerioTimmy: i'd say restore the backup, don't install kernel-power, and install cssu-testing19:42
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DocScrutinizer05he really said he got a BM backup? missed that19:45
kerioi hope he does, we told him to19:46
kerio*to get one19:46
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DocScrutinizer05seems he doesn't like to listen to what we tell him19:46
DocScrutinizer05since - you know - he used debian since ages19:47
kerioto be fair community-ssu-updater is a kludge19:47
DocScrutinizer05there's not even such a thing like community-ssu-updater19:48
DocScrutinizer05improve it if you're so smart19:48
kerioi didn't say i had a better way of doing that kind of stuff19:48
kerioin fact, i don't think there is19:48
keriobecause nokia19:48
keriobut a necessary evil is still evil19:49
DocScrutinizer05I think the instructions @ are pretty fine19:51
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Timmyhello again, i was not here, so it seems that cssu hasbeen installed, let's see what happens after a reboot20:00
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Timmyim back20:04
Timmyseems nothin has been broken20:04
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Timmyit has installed everything execpt maemo 5 CSSU package(thumb)20:10
Timmyand still cant install that through ham20:10
DocScrutinizer05well, HAM will tell you WHY it refuses to install anything20:14
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DocScrutinizer05would me mad useful to have a look at "problems" tab in HAM, and maybe even pstebin the log to be found in dropdown menu of HAM20:15
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Timmydude, there is no useful info in the log20:18
DocScrutinizer05and in problems tab?20:22
Timmythere's no such thing here20:23
DocScrutinizer05if HAM claims there are problems and you should use OVI suite, there's usually a problems tab (most right hand one of three tabs, under 'details' for the package to install)20:24
DocScrutinizer05if there isn't (I dunno if that ever happens) then you simply might be short on free storage. HAM has some checks for available free storage size20:25
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ZogG_laptopWoody14619, ping20:31
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05: that was a nice hack, eh? :)20:31
Lava_CroftIt made me smile widely20:31
merlin1991just keep in mind, the problems tab appears 1 dialog prior the pc suite msg20:34
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merlin1991and you have to wait a bit for it to show up in the tabs20:35
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* RST38h yawns, twice20:51
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Timmyyeppiee, i have installed that through fap,just added its repository in fap and upgraded all20:54
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RST38hDoc: Have you see the latest example of how well Nokia adopts MS corporate culture?20:55
Timmyis it wrong?20:55
DocScrutinizer05nah, what?20:55
RST38hDoc: Well,for starters they installed a regular camera in their newest Lumia and called it PureView (MS rule #1: LIE!)20:56
DocScrutinizer05allegedly due to the "better efficiency of sensor"20:57
RST38hDoc: Then they shot a promotional video for the above camera, as if it were done with the camera itself (including comparisons). As it turns out the video was shot with professional equipment (comparisons included)20:57
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RST38hDoc: (MS rule #2: LIE MORE!)20:57
DocScrutinizer05yeah again, seen that20:57
RST38hand yeah, the stock is down again, right when they announced win8 handset20:58
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keriois that part of the MS corporate culture too?20:59
kerioi mean, they're definetely used to, but...20:59
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DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: which hack do you refer to?21:11
qwazixanybody knows if the timeout for the lights on after powerbutton press (i.e. bring up the lockscreen) is configurable?21:18
DocScrutinizer05hm? sorry, which lights?21:19
DocScrutinizer05you mean the time until lockscreen dims?21:19
qwazixYour N900 is locked. You press the pwrbtn. Light's up. $t secs pass. lights turn off again21:20
qwazixI'm looking to extend $t21:20
DocScrutinizer05not sure where to tweak that21:21
DocScrutinizer05maybe hardcoded to lockscreen21:21
qwazixhm, possibly... I'look around see what I can do21:21
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DocScrutinizer05the weird thing: there's a fast timeout when you do nothing, and a way longer timeout but still a timeout when you constantly create touch evens that don't unlock the lockscreen via slider though21:24
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05: unbricking that samsung device21:25
Lava_Croftusing mcguyver tech21:26
DocScrutinizer05aaah, that one. The homemade resistor21:26
Lava_Croftit still needed nokia tech tho21:26
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: nothing related I could spot in mce.ini either21:30
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, i found a hacky way to do it. Simulate powerbutton presses every 3 seconds :)21:31
qwazixnot sure if it will work though, trying now21:31
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DocScrutinizer05gconftool -R /|grep timeout   also doen't show anything21:35
DocScrutinizer05I guess it's hardcoded to lockscreen21:35
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DocScrutinizer05(something I never really looked into, since lockscreen for me is exclusively used to watch the time)21:47
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keriowould qtlockscreen be configurable in that regard?21:55
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DocScrutinizer05I don't even know what lockscreen 'binary' will get called by whom in which way22:01
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piggzwhats involved in porting an app from n9 to n900?  are the qml components (qt-components-10) near enough compatible?22:06
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piggzi cant even remember how to use my n900 vm build system!22:06
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DocScrutinizer05qwazix_: I'd think it's /usr/bin/systemui that somehow does lockscreen22:33
qwazix_DocScrutinizer05, thanks, is that opensource?22:34
DocScrutinizer05no idea, just found the process of that name being active22:35
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DocScrutinizer05ls -l /usr/lib/systemui/22:35
DocScrutinizer05maybe libsystemuiplugin_devlock.so22:36
DocScrutinizer05or libsystemuiplugin_splashscreen.so22:36
DocScrutinizer05or libsystemuiplugin_tklock.so22:37
qwazix_tklock I know is closed unfortunately...22:37
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DocScrutinizer05seems MohammadAG worked on something22:45
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DocScrutinizer05qwazix_: ^^^22:50
qwazix_DocScrutinizer05, checking it out22:51
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: ping22:51
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: didn't you mess around with lockscreen once?22:52
qwazix_DocScrutinizer05, idk if you have seen timenow, now with some help from nicolai I managed to make the N900 show the lockscreen when you pull it out of pocket22:54
qwazix_I'd prefer if it could stay on for a little longer and have a lower backlight.22:54
qwazix_Anyway it's much better than before with the framebuffer and text2screen22:55
DocScrutinizer05sorry no, never heard of timenow22:56
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qwazix_let's see if TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL exists in maemo...23:12
qwazix_perfect! it exists! No more faked powerbutton presses :)23:15
qwazix_Now I can call that in a loop in qt and extend the time.23:17
qwazix_Thank you, DocScrutinizer05!!23:17
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keriowhat's TKLOCK_ENABLE_VISUAL?23:25
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DocScrutinizer05why ? ?23:48
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