IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-08-28

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iluminator105where can i find libcpap for wireshark for n90004:07
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DocScrutinizer06IroN900:~# apt-cache policy libpcap0.809:22
DocScrutinizer06  Installed: (none)09:22
DocScrutinizer06  Candidate: 1.1.1-2maemo409:22
DocScrutinizer06  Version table:09:22
DocScrutinizer06     1.1.1-2maemo4 009:22
DocScrutinizer06        500 fremantle-1.3/free Packages09:22
DocScrutinizer06NB:  Installed: (none)09:22
DocScrutinizer06tshark works nevertheless, afaik it has libpcap "built in"09:23
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: BTW copyright in the header applies to the source code, not to the underlying technology AFAIK, so it seemes javispedro's concern was about IDA09:35
DocScrutinizer06I'm pretty sure his whole concern been about GPLing some decompiler output09:36
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DocScrutinizer06no matter if IDA or $your_fav_disassembler09:36
freemangordonnow, tell me how is that GPL-ed09:37
freemangordonNTFS ;)09:37
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freemangordonevery single file in NTFS driver is under GPL and is parto of the linux kernel09:38
DocScrutinizer06well, looks to me like somebody has *written* that, and thus actually created a piece of intelectual property of his own09:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: you mean I didn't write what I published09:39
freemangordonI did it, it is not a simple copy/paste09:39
DocScrutinizer06it looks like IDA "written" it09:39
freemangordonlemme show you what ida produces as output to end that, just a minute09:39
DocScrutinizer06well, then I don't know (and I believe in your words, no need to show me IDA output)09:40
DocScrutinizer06ask javispedro if he as well had that misconception09:41
DocScrutinizer06or he actually meant something else09:41
Macerfreemangordon: just use ida and throw the code out there! wooo!!09:42
Macerhack the planet!09:42
MacerDocScrutinizer06: it's not against licensing to decompile and rewrite code? ;)09:43
Maceri always figured that was almost always part of a license with most closed software09:43
freemangordonMacer: I missed your point(still having my coffee), but IDA/hexrays output cannot be compiled back, no matter what09:44
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Macerfreemangordon: oh im just saying.. if you do decompile... and then write something from teh output...09:44
Maceri figure the decompiling itself is restricted by the software's license09:45
Maceror is this the method typically used to "write" gpl'd src for hardware?09:45
freemangordonwell, take a look at NTFS example I gave above09:45
Maceri did.. that is why i am asking09:46
Macerthe real question is how did they write it to begin with?09:47
Macerdid they take ntfs and decompile it, learn how it worked, then recompile?09:47
Macerwell.. write then recompile09:47
freemangordonby doing RE09:47
Macerif so how is that not a violation of the eula from ms? :)09:47
freemangordonit is09:48
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DocScrutinizer06Macer: that's gray zone09:48
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MacerDocScrutinizer06: i doubt it is very gray. i'm sure MS has it vividly written in the eula09:48
DocScrutinizer06most licences/eulas have a § that forbids decompiling but also in several jurisdictions that's just moot09:49
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: I am almost sure javispedro's concern is about me using IDA, which I don't have the right to :)09:49
MacerDocScrutinizer06: meaning the eula doesn't hold any force of law? even tho the end user HAS to agre in order to use it?09:49
DocScrutinizer06what's definitely forbidden, even under normal copyright, is decomoiling and then publishing09:50
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Maceryeah but what justifies a rewrite?09:50
Macerwhat if there is only 1 way to do it? ;)09:50
Maceri would assume there is probably no way to avoid using none of the decompiled code in order to get it to work09:51
DocScrutinizer06meh, please consult wikipedia about it. IANAL09:51
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: but that us actually a rewrite, it is not the output of decompiler/disassembler09:51
freemangordonno matter what tools i used during the rewrite09:51
Maceri mean quite honestly... if i were a dev i'd probably just have my own special n90009:51
Macerrunning some other awesome os with stuff i decompiled and got working :)09:52
Macerthen throw a torrent on tpb .. but that's just me haha09:52
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freemangordonwell, maybe it is better to wait for javispedro to appear and throw some lit on WTF "WTF" means09:53
infobotfreemangordon meant: well, maybe it is better to wait for javispedro to appear and throw some light on WTF "WTF" means09:53
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zeq1Macer: _Legally_ (IANAL either) EULAs can't remove end user *rights* including the right to reverse engineer for interoperability etc.  They can only provide *additional* rights to those normally reserved by copyright law.10:36
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DocScrutinizer06but plain (C) law is pretty simple, in that you mustn't redistribute intelectual property of others under your own name and licence.10:38
zeq1Except under "fair use" or with permission.10:39
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DocScrutinizer06doesn't matter if the original binary is represented as a binary file, a hex dump, or a disassembler output, if you copy complete or partial. You simply must not use the original code in your work if you want to distribute your work. You *may* use disassembler to understand what original code does, then write something that does about the same thing, since the algorithm isn't protected by law. Like with a book, you may write your won10:42
DocScrutinizer06story that tells exacxtly same plot, but you mustn't copy a few lines of original book's text, no matter if you change layout or font or even translate it to another language10:42
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zeq1Exactly so, but EULAs claim to explicitly ban RE, which in most jurisdictions isn't legally enforcible (US law notwithstanding)10:46
DocScrutinizer06I already mentioned that, yes10:47
zeq1I would be wary of doing just about anything if I lived in the US though...10:47
zeq1look at what happened to Samsung10:48
zeq1I've been reading the groklaw blog for years, it just seems to get crazier and crazier.10:48
keriowell, google will probably sue apple now10:48
DocScrutinizer06since we got "permission" from quim gill to redistribute Nokia(C) blobs, we probably are safe when we keep original Nokia (C) in header of disassembly of those blobs10:49
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: but that is not disassembly10:51
DocScrutinizer06doesn't matter10:51
DocScrutinizer06we just pretend it is10:51
kerioUS Pat. 5710987, Receiver having concealed external antenna10:51
kerioAssignee: Motorola, Inc.10:51
freemangordonzeq1: could you help on that?10:51
jaskaUS Pat. $random, A multi-pronged utensil to eat food with.10:52
zeq1freemangordon: what is it exactly?10:52
keriothe patent doesn't talk about a special technique to do so10:52
keriojust... you know... put the antenna inside the body of the phone10:52
freemangordon00:22 <javispedro> freemangordon: wtf are you doing10:52
freemangordon<javispedro> freemangordon:
freemangordon<javispedro> freemangordon: you cannot just paste a IDA decompiler output and relicense it under GPL310:52
freemangordonzeq1: ^^^10:52
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freemangordonI still fail to grok the problem :(10:53
DocScrutinizer06the problem is you put somebody else's code/property under a new licence10:53
zeq1you want my opinion on whether using the information gleaned from IDA is okay?10:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: it is not somebody else code10:54
freemangordonzeq1: basically yes10:54
zeq1it's the code to render vkb?10:55
DocScrutinizer06what javispedro wrote actually *IS* assuming it's just that, somebody else's code10:55
freemangordonzeq1: yes10:55
DocScrutinizer06freemangordon: please dissect problem correctly10:55
DocScrutinizer06>>javispedro: "you cannot just paste a IDA decompiler output and relicense it under GPL"<< this is absolutely correct10:56
zeq1it's slightly grey if you manually parsed the output from the decompiler and re-wrote it10:56
freemangordonadn that is what I did10:56
zeq1if you wrote specs from the de-compiler then wrote new code from spec you're definitely ok10:56
zeq1if you can convince yourself that's what you did in your head... ;)10:57
DocScrutinizer06my staement: "under qgil licence, you may paste a IDA decompiler output, givven you do NOT relicence it"10:57
DocScrutinizer06to comply with the latter, it's _not_ mandatory to copy _complete_ orifinal code's decompiler output10:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: but it is not IDA decompiler output (well, some parts need cleanup, I agree)10:59
DocScrutinizer06err original*10:59
freemangordonbut it is a matter of cleanup10:59
zeq1You could argue the IDA output is a machine generated specification10:59
DocScrutinizer06whatever, either you grok the issue now or you need to find help from somebody else, I'm definitely short on time11:00
freemangordonnowhere in the IDA output there are structure/class definitions, function names, etc11:00
zeq1freemangordon: I would lean to your side, it's just that these things can be iffy11:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: np, thanks anyway, will wait for javispedro to appear and elaborate11:01
zeq1It's mostly comes down to whether you feel you can document your process11:02
freemangordonzeq1: document? man, why using taboo words, I am developer after all :D11:02
freemangordonwell, I can explain, the you give me your toughts, ok?11:04
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freemangordonif you have tiem11:04
zeq1it's not likely there would be any issue. but if you got an email from Nokia you might want to be able to demonstrate you wrote your code from the functional specification rather than just manually parsing their "IP"11:04
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zeq1IMHO, I really can't see it being a problem, we're probably "violating" patents with every line of code we write anyway... :P11:06
zeq1but as I said IANAL11:06
freemangordonhmm, I got the point. The problem is that for the most SW i wrote (esp the FOSS one) there is no specification elsewhere but in my head11:06
freemangordonnot that I say I know how vkb works :)11:07
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zeq1It might be worth you cleaning up your RE work into a specification document if you have any concerns.11:08
zeq1I know how that must make you feel though ;)11:08
DocScrutinizer06or you consider my suggestion11:09
zeq1there's a reason commercial companies insist on lots of documentation11:09
DocScrutinizer06and state "all disassembled parts in this document (C)Nokia, under licence applicable to maemo"11:09
freemangordonwell, that is over any limits :D. So I will wait for javispedro to elaborate (as I still have the feeling he told me I am not allowed to use IDA) and after that will ask merlin199111:10
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DocScrutinizer06this is not over any limits, this is in line with qgil permission to redistribute (C)Nokia blobs in CSSU11:11
freemangordonif it requires several months that source to be in a condition that will make everyone happy, i'll consider asking merlin to just remove it11:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer06: it was re documentation :)11:11
DocScrutinizer06and probably the _only_ way to get this into official CSSU repos11:12
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freemangordonok, I'll ask merlin1991 to put whatever license he finds appropriate, I told you, I don't care if my name is mentioned in the header11:13
freemangordonthough to be honest I don' think Nokia can care less :)11:15
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zeq1freemangordon: I'm sure Nokia would rather we all just disappeared11:17
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zeq1freemangordon: in there is the glibc source package11:21
freemangordonzeq1: thanks11:23
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zeq1it enables pselect by just bumping the min kernel version, and also the patch to allow packages using inlines to compile against it using current gcc versions11:23
freemangordonzeq1: do you plan to compile and package newer gcc 4.7.2?11:24
zeq1I ported it from the glibc2.6 git branch11:24
zeq1yes, I will do it today if I get time11:24
freemangordonBTW I think we should first asm merlin1991 to create a repo on gitorious, containing the original glibc code and apply those patches on top of it11:25
zeq1it needs to depend on kernel "sigmask syscalls" feature, I didn't do that11:26
zeq1(and also remember it has to be built with the stock compiler)11:27
zeq1I never managed to find a way of not breaking the locales using 4.711:27
zeq1(or 4.6 for that matter)11:27
zeq1the libs are half the size compiled with thumb :(11:28
zeq1(no performance difference on benchmarks though)11:29
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zeq1freemangordon: I have a patch for hildon-desktop to build using -ffast-math too, shall I put that on the server too?11:30
zeq1As I mentioned before my holiday it's necessary to change the finite math functions11:31
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zeq1freemangordon: you already merged the float branch into your cssu-thumb version didn't you?11:33
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freemangordonzeq1: no, I didn't12:14
freemangordonzeq1: andwe'd better use gitorious for patches, it does not make sense me to apply the patches you did :)12:15
freemangordoni.e. cone, edit, request a merge is the correct way AIUI12:15
infobotfreemangordon meant: i.e. clone, edit, request a merge is the correct way AIUI12:15
freemangordonthat way the others have the chance to review the patches too12:16
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keriomy bupbat worked after more than a minute D:12:26
kerioi don't even12:26
keriodoes this make sense?12:26
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kerioDocScrutinizer51: my bupbat resisted more than a minute of lack of battery12:28
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kerioDocScrutinizer51: are you sure that the bupbat doesn't power bq24k?12:36
kerioit definetely powered bq27k12:36
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zeq1freemangordon: ok will do13:22
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DocScrutinizer51kerio: (bupbat) yes, quite sure13:32
DocScrutinizer51though I fail to understand how duration of bupbat supply would indicate it also supplying any bq chip13:34
DocScrutinizer51anyway bupbat is connected to twl4030 and just supplies the CMOS clock and some registers in there13:35
kerioDocScrutinizer51: i wanted to reset bq24k because it's still in a silly state because of Pali's module13:36
keriobq27k didn't lose the calibration - is it fair to think that bq24k wasn't reset either?13:36
DocScrutinizer51NB twl4030 also is responsible for powering up device on VBUS detect13:36
DocScrutinizer51there's basically nothing to reset in bq2415013:37
kerioi see13:39
kerioso it's twl that could be in a weird state13:39
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DocScrutinizer51but bq24150.ko afaik also is messing with USB for charger detect and whatnot, and that's PHY 1707, and twl403013:40
DocScrutinizer51we already had reports of allegedly permanently messed up twl4030 settings in early days of h-e-n13:41
DocScrutinizer51and due to bupbat it *might* be tricky to reset twl403013:42
DocScrutinizer51I for one never completely investigated that topic, since we made sure we don't do any evil13:43
keriogoddammit pali13:43
kerioDocScrutinizer51: hm, where could i find a datasheet for twl4030 so i can look for a way to reset it?13:48
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DocScrutinizer51check wiki, there has to be a link13:50
DocScrutinizer51tps65595 iirc13:50
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keriotps65950 apparently13:51
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keriooh god, 171 pages13:52
keriohm, the only mentions of "reset" talk about a power-on reset13:54
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kerioso... idk13:54
DocScrutinizer51kerio: your lucky day! I'm sitting at work, bored, with internet access on my fingertips13:59
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kerioyay! :D14:03
kerioright now i'm just going to wait like an hour for bupbat to fucking fail14:03
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kerioi swear, those things do the exact opposite of what you want them to do14:03
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kerioDocScrutinizer51: assuming it's healthy, how much would i have to wait?14:06
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DocScrutinizer51read 8.1.214:10
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keriook, bupbat resisted 25 minutes14:25
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DocScrutinizer51kerio: what's up now? did it 'reset'?14:47
DocScrutinizer51did you even flash sane kernel?14:47
kerioof course not, still on kp51r1 :)14:48
kerioi'd have to downgrade to kernel-cssu that matches kp5014:48
kerioanyway, the only problem i had was that triggering a watchdog reboot caused the phone to enter act-dead mode with no charger plugged in14:49
keriowhich was weird14:49
keriobut once i properly boot, it works fine14:50
kerioyep, i can replicate that14:57
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keriowatchdog reboot enters act-dead mode for a bit14:58
kerioand then it boots14:58
keriooh pali, what did you do to my n900 ç_ç14:58
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freemangordonkerio: kernel-cssu3 is kp51r115:13
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DocScrutinizer51btw WTF are the register descriptions for tps65950?15:21
DocScrutinizer51if *I* were TI designing twl4030 chip, I'd specify a generic reset procedure: hold poweron button while inserting battery, maybe keep it for a further 10s15:27
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DocScrutinizer51kerio: did you find further manuals than the one on TI webpage that has electrical specs and that bupbat stuff under 8.x.y as I said above?15:29
keriono, but i haven't actually searched15:29
kerioi mean, that's the whole datasheet as provided by TI15:29
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DocScrutinizer51funny sidenote: for N9 Nokia obviously got a special custom build called TPS6595115:36
StyXmanhmm, I have an ex-TI 5m behind me15:44
StyXmanwhat manuals are you lloking for?15:44
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kerioStyXman: twl15:50
kerioaka tps6595015:50
keriowe want to know if there's a way to reset it without removing power to it15:50
keriobecause that would require removing the bupbat, if it still works (like mine)15:50
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DocScrutinizer51nm, all on one page, just need to scroll down15:56
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StyXmanDocScrutinizer51: ack16:01
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kerioStyXman: syn+ack16:03
fizzieAck, followed by syn+ack... must be some kind of a backwards handshake.16:04
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DocScrutinzrWrkNote: One exception: when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers.16:04
kerio:D :D D:16:05
kerio:D :D :D16:05
DocScrutinzrWrkgimme 516:05
kerio<DocScrutinizer51> if *I* were TI designing twl4030 chip, I'd specify a generic reset procedure: hold poweron button while inserting battery, maybe keep it for a further 10s16:06
keriothe hw engineering is strong in this one16:06
keriohm, how would i use that thing?16:06
StyXmankerio: rst16:07
keriooh, i'll just shutdown with held PWRON and then remove the battery i guess16:07
keriowould that work?16:08
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DocScrutinzrWrk~n900-full-reset is when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers.16:09
infobotDocScrutinzrWrk: okay16:09
kerioDocScrutinzrWrk: would USB PHY be reset in the same way? otherwise it's not really a full reset :)16:09
DocScrutinzrWrkPHY should get reset by removing battery (mind you, it's not backed up by bupbat)16:10
kerioremoving battery + wait the usual minute or so?16:10
DocScrutinzrWrkyou however should remove bat for 120+ seconds16:10
keriohm, tps65951 has a way to reset its own USB PHY16:11
keriodoes the N9 have a separate chip for usb, like the n900?16:11
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DocScrutinzrWrkshorting N900 battery terminals of N900 might shorten capacitor discharge time16:14
keriodoes it work if i just touch them? :)16:15
DocScrutinzrWrkN9 uses tps65951 PHY16:15
DocScrutinzrWrkkerio: basically yes16:15
DocScrutinzrWrkmaybe with slighly humid fingertips16:15
fizzieSoon you'll have him spitting in his phone.16:16
Lava_Croftprotip: dont pee on it16:16
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kerioi wasn't going to D:16:16
keriobq27k calibration data is still there16:17
kerioi'll try triggering a reboot again16:17
keriothat seemed to showcase the problem before16:17
keriook, normal booting :D16:18
kerioEstel_: you might want to try this too16:18
kerio(before it used to enter act-dead mode while charging for a bit)16:18
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* DocScrutinzrWrk frowns on Note at bottom of §3 in, p.616:21
* DocScrutinzrWrk wonders if maemo5 maybe never even activates bupbat charging16:22
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kerioDocScrutinzrWrk: hahahah oh wow16:33
keriomaybe it never did16:33
kerioalthough i thought that failures in bupbats were due to physical problems16:33
freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: good finding, maybe we should ask Pali to include that in charger driver16:35
freemangordonmost probably that is the reason most of those batteries to be empty in an year or so16:35
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keriowe should also ask Pali to make the charger driver not completely fuck up twl4030 :)16:37
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DocScrutinzrWrkif bupbat never gets charged, it will break and go EOL after ~1 year or so16:43
DocScrutinzrWrkdue to deep discharge16:43
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kerioanyway, the n900 is surprisingly resilient17:09
kerioi mean, the guy that nandtested the whole NAND has something that boots now17:09
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kerionandtest, from mtd-utils17:12
kerioa destructive nand test17:12
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keriodude overwrote most of CAL with random data17:12
keriowell, all of CAL17:12
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Gh0styhow did he fix it?17:15
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kerioGh0sty: he didn't :)17:18
keriohe coldflashed and then reflashed17:19
keriobut CAL is still borked17:19
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freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: :nod:17:23
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freemangordonthe question is if it can be revived17:23
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jacekowskikerio: does it boot now?17:25
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keriojacekowski: he said it does17:28
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DocScrutinzrWrkfreemangordon: a deep discharged LiIon is considered dead usually. Even a LiSiIon bupbat17:29
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Gh0stykerio: and how do you coldflash?17:50
infoboti heard coldflash is and next ~200 posts, or
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jacekowskikerio: what about rapuyama17:55
jacekowskikerio: does rapuyama boot?17:55
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: well, depends on how deep17:55
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: i've discharged liion to 1.2V17:55
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: and recharged after that17:55
keriojacekowski: ask sambo717:55
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: and it recovered quite well17:55
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SpeedEvilYou probably haven't.18:09
SpeedEvilIf you mean a nokia type battery18:09
SpeedEvilonce it hits 2.5V or so, the protection circuitry kicks in, and disconnects the cell18:09
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freemangordonhmm, but we are talking about cell battery, i don't think there is any protection circuitry built in18:28
freemangordon~seen javispedro18:30
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 18h 5m ago, saying: 'freemangordon: you cannot just paste a IDA decompiler output and relicense it under GPL3'.18:30
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DocScrutinzrWrk SiErr on TPS6595x: 26 VDD1, VDD2, may have glitches when their output value is updated // The OMAP device may reboot if the VDD1 or VDD2 go below the core minimum operating voltage.// Negative glitches may occur on VDD1, VDD2 output. It occurs when the output voltage is changed and the DCDC are running on their internal oscillator.18:39
DocScrutinzrWrkI read that as "don't use SmartReflex, it's instable"18:39
keriobut... :c18:40
kerioit worksforme!18:40
DocScrutinzrWrkI might be wrong18:40
kerioTI might be wrong!18:42
keriohm, is smartreflex even useful if you don't OC?18:42
DocScrutinzrWrkalso: 27 VDD1 and / or VDD2 DCDC clock may stop working when internal clock is switched18:43
DocScrutinzrWrkImpact: VDD1 and/or VDD2 output voltages may collapse if clock stops.18:43
* kerio disables smartreflex18:47
kerioi don't know how D:18:48
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freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: the same could happen when you change the OPP18:52
keriohm, should i overclock this?18:55
freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: also the note says "...DCDC are running on their internal oscillator."18:55
freemangordonis that the case in n900?18:55
kerioanyway, removing /etc/default/kernel-power and rebooting gave me the stock settings18:55
kerioi'm probably going to *save* these to a file18:55
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keriohmm, "default" differs from stock in more than one way18:57
keriothe voltage for 250 is a bit lower, and the dsp frequency is 500 instead of 520 for a lot of high frequencies18:57
freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: libhildon-im-vkbrenderer3_3.3.20-1+0m5_armel.deb (stock) does not contain license, what now?18:59
DocScrutinizer51well, I guess then standard maemo licence applies19:02
freemangordonwhich is?19:02
freemangordonhmm, where is ivgalvez :(19:02
DocScrutinizer51the eula you accept on firmware dl website19:02
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DocScrutinizer51and probably qgil's special 'licence' for CSSU overrides that EULA19:06
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: why is that eula applicable? I didn't get the binaries from the device. Maybe I should check what SDK license says.19:06
DocScrutinizer51yep, that too19:07
freemangordonMaemo SDK Virtual Image is part of the Maemo Eclipse Integration project.19:07
freemangordonContents released under the Eclipse Public License v1.0.19:07
freemangordonhehe "each Contributor hereby grants Recipient a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute and sublicense the Contribution of such Contributor, if any, and such derivative works, in source code and object code form."19:08
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DocScrutinzrWrkprobably only applicable to SDK IDE itself19:10
freemangordonsure, but if there is no license coming with .debs, then what?19:10
freemangordonI am glad I am a developer, not a lawyer :D19:11
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freemangordonhmm, there is an additional euale one should agree berfore download, lemme read it19:13
SpeedEvilfreemangordon: the nokia n900 battery has a little protection board in it19:15
SpeedEvilit's not a bare cell19:15
freemangordonSpeedEvil: we were talking about backup battery19:15
SpeedEvilOh - my mistake19:16
SpeedEvilthat does not have any protection at all. I should read further context19:16
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: well, according to that EULA ( .debs we are talking about are not copyrighted, or at least that is my undertanding. So I will end that discussion until someone finds a reason why I should change the license19:22
freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: ^^^19:22
DocScrutinzrWrk p.265 (SmartReflex) bottom: >>The registers are described in and .<<  NIIIICE!19:27
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freemangordonbut of course19:27
freemangordonin 3430 TRM there is a note that this information is confidential :D:D:D19:28
freemangordon"This information is not available in public domain"19:30
DocScrutinzrWrkp.409/410 has SR regs19:31
keriodoes flasher do something more than nandwrite when flashing the kernel?19:33
freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: no, those are voltage control registers ;)19:34
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freemangordonthere are about 10-20 more19:35
freemangordonDocScrutinzrWrk: exactly 13 more registers19:37
freemangordoncheck in the trm, section Global_Reg_PRM Registers19:38
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DocScrutinzrWrkTRM of what? OMAP?19:44
freemangordonyes, OMAP34xx_ES3.1.x_PUBLIC_TRM_vZM.pdf19:45
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DocScrutinzrWrkI suppose that are OMAP registers then19:46
freemangordoncould be, but does not matter, as SR is actually controlled by those19:47
freemangordonthough iirc they are accessed through i2c19:48
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DocScrutinzrWrk p.441 ROTFL19:55
DocScrutinzrWrkluckily we don't use any of that in N90019:56
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kerioDocScrutinzrWrk: should i remind you that the N900 uses rx51_BME?20:06
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DocScrutinzrWrkkerio: how is that related?20:20
DocScrutinzrWrkwe're talking hw right here20:20
MrPingumy issue is fixed by a reflash and have an awesome low number of wakeups now via powertop :)20:21
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DocScrutinzrWrkMrPingu: so what's the conclusion?20:24
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DocScrutinzrWrkkernel buggy?20:24
MrPinguIt's not the battery20:24
DocScrutinzrWrkaaah the battery issue20:25
MrPinguBattery is just fine so it "must" have been something else...20:26
DocScrutinzrWrkI asked "was it the kernel?"20:26
DocScrutinzrWrkprolly you dunno yet20:26
MrPinguWell mtd2 last oops was from kp47 :p20:27
DocScrutinzrWrkseen that20:27
MrPinguDon't know what to blame in my phone...20:28
MrPinguFailing microSD20:28
MrPinguDon't have swap enabled on SD now...20:28
DocScrutinzrWrkthen more than likely20:28
MrPinguJust came to my mind...20:29
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kerioDocScrutinzrWrk: hm, why?20:30
DocScrutinzrWrkdidn't I mention a possible explanation along lines of "watchdog triggered due to system freeze by IO overload/congestion"?20:30
MrPinguYes you did ;)20:30
DocScrutinzrWrkthere you are20:31
MrPinguI remember changing IO que to 4096 after someone suggested that here20:31
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DocScrutinzrWrkIO queue prolly doesn't help for swap20:31
keriohe didn't use sd swap20:32
keriooh, he did20:32
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MrPinguHow do you know what I did? :P20:33
kerioyou don't have swap enabled on SD *now*20:33
keriothat's what you said20:33
MrPinguEnabled swap again on SD, lets see if it's stable20:33
DocScrutinzrWrkLOL even20:34
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DocScrutinzrWrkanother cig.... bbl20:35
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DocScrutinizer51yeah thanks! will do20:38
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DocScrutinizer51was ADCIN0 bat BSI and ADCIN1 temp?20:40
keriohaha i love how we can track your irc client based on your nickname20:41
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: ^20:41
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: ^20:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: can't remember, I was always relying on you for that :D20:42
DocScrutinizer51no schematics at hand20:42
freemangordonthough I think it was adcin120:42
freemangordonfor temp20:42
DocScrutinizer51:nod: makes sense20:43
freemangordonzeq1: ping20:43
DocScrutinizer51I stll wonder if 'somebody' was able to 'reset twl4030'20:44
freemangordonADIN1: Battery temperature, according to TPS65950  Integrated Power Management/Audio Codec20:44
DocScrutinizer51that's where I came from20:45
freemangordonADIN0: Battery type/GP input20:45
freemangordonhmm, what was your question then?20:46
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DocScrutinzrWrkfreemangordon: basically my question was if the schematics of N900 are in line with twl4030 TRM20:52
freemangordonaah, ok, misunderstood20:53
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* DocScrutinizer51 is eager to test bupbat chrg config with i2cget when at home21:46
freemangordonI am all for it21:47
freemangordonactually the only thing in n900 that annoys me to death is the fact that battery21:47
freemangordonon both devices I have is dead21:48
freemangordonso I have to set date/time everytime I remove the main battery21:48
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DocScrutinizer51I won't hold my breath21:51
DocScrutinizer51after all some users changed bupbat for capacitor and reported it works21:51
freemangordonyeah, but if it is fixable by software...21:52
DocScrutinizer51wouldn't if charging was completely KO21:52
freemangordonhmm, yeah, I see :(21:52
DocScrutinizer51wouldn't work with capacitor21:52
freemangordonthough that could be some leakage that charges the capacitor21:52
DocScrutinizer51and on OM gta02 we had exactly same problem21:53
freemangordonbad batteries?21:53
DocScrutinizer51hard to think we have same kernel problem there21:53
DocScrutinizer51same fsckng bad bupbat21:54
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DocScrutinizer51plus I have ~50 spare components HBH414 or what's the name, and all are dead as well21:55
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DocScrutinizer51indeed a freakin rippoff those japanese LiIon bupbat22:02
freemangordonzeq1: ping22:03
DocScrutinizer51a primary cell would've performed better22:03
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DocScrutinizer51after all it's actually used _only_ wehn main bat removed22:04
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fastaUnder what preconditions is date lost on n900?22:04
keriofasta: failure of bupbat22:04
infobotfrom memory, bupbat is, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months22:05
fastakerio: does that fall under warranty?22:05
freemangordonwhy not?22:05
keriofasta: sure22:05
keriootoh, the second link there sells batteries for 1.21$22:05
DocScrutinizer5160000 uF22:06
fastaIf I turn the phone off, and wait a really long time, shoudn't the same thing happen?22:06
DocScrutinizer51but hard to order them22:06
keriofasta: of course not22:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: farnell?22:07
keriothe bl-5j can keep the real-time clock going for *a looooooooooooooong time*22:07
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: yup22:07
fastakerio: how long is that?22:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: why hard then?22:07
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DocScrutinizer51they don't sell to customers here afaik, only b2b22:08
DocScrutinizer51fasta: longer than any of us lives to tell22:08
freemangordonhmm, I bought some very special UHF transistors from them a few years ago, there was no problem22:09
keriofasta: |---------------------| this long22:09
kerio(not in scale)22:09
fastaDocScrutinizer51: odd that a component can 'semi-work' then.22:09
fastaI'd expect it to either break completely or not.22:09
freemangordonfasta: there is a second battery in n900 which kicks in when main battery is remioved22:10
freemangordonremoved even22:10
keriofasta: the backup battery is supposed to keep the real-time clock going22:10
keriobut most batteries used in the production of n900s are known to fail22:10
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freemangordonit is the same as CSOM battery in the PCs22:10
freemangordonyep, thanks22:10
DocScrutinizer51~1320 / 0.02 /24 / 36522:10
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DocScrutinizer51ooh, only 7.5 years22:11
fastaIs it easy to replace the component yourself?22:11
freemangordonwell, noone knows the production year ;)22:11
DocScrutinizer51if I didn't shift a decimal22:11
freemangordonit coulkd be easily around 1005 :D22:11
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DocScrutinizer51well, that's from one main battery charge22:13
DocScrutinizer51assuming 20uA for RTC22:13
DocScrutinizer51I've read it this afternoon but forgot22:14
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DocScrutinizer51but less than 5s? c'mon!22:18
DocScrutinizer51prolly a 47uF could do better22:18
freemangordondeffinitely :)22:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: could it be that it is undercharged?22:20
DocScrutinizer51negative capacity? :-P22:21
freemangordonI meant the battery22:21
DocScrutinizer51define  undercharge22:21
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freemangordonwell, iirc controller assumes battery empty under 1.8 V22:22
freemangordoncharges stops when he thinks there ar 2.5 V22:22
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infobotfreemangordon meant: charging stops when he thinks there ar 2.5 V22:23
freemangordonyes, we don't know what is the exact threshold22:23
freemangordonbtw who should do that, BME or kernel?22:24
freemangordontwl4030 driver?22:24
freemangordonok, lemme try to find what is going on22:24
freemangordonfrom the SW side22:24
DocScrutinizer05maybe it's e ven NOLO22:24
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freemangordonwell, kernel should not depend on the booloader22:26
DocScrutinizer05should, yeah22:26
DocScrutinizer05twl4030 is NOLO anyway, you need proper core voltages before booting linux22:26
freemangordonsure, but kernel reprograms it22:27
freemangordonat least SD/eMMC/SIM voltages are programmed by kernel22:27
DocScrutinizer05and SR ;-)22:28
freemangordonlets see what is in there22:29
* DocScrutinizer05 bbl, needs chillout22:29
DocScrutinizer05from doing nuttin at work, except reading TI TRM22:30
DocScrutinizer05don't miss to post me an URL22:36
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: the driver is not compiled/loaded22:37
freemangordon# CONFIG_TWL4030_BCI_BATTERY is not set22:38
freemangordonand I can bet noone charges the bugger :D22:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: feel free to play with i2c tools, at least you can read the voltage and make the conclusions ;)22:40
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freemangordonthough I am tempted to compile that module and load it22:43
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sambo7hi nandtester device is working again...internet,phone works...bluetooth doesn't22:46
sambo7I guess all the things that need to read hw rev don't work22:47
freemangordonmaybe you miss BT MAC22:48
sambo7where/how can I locate that22:48
sambo7wifi mac is ok22:49
freemangordonwhere did you get WIFI mac from?22:49
freemangordonor it was there?22:49
sambo7it was there22:50
freemangordonhmm, anything in syslog/dmesg?22:50
sambo7phone and wifi is ok...when I try to enable bt,I get some phonet messages in syslog22:51
sambo7at least the last time I tried to enable it22:52
sambo7this time no syslog entry22:53
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sambo7bt not working doesn't bother me a lot22:55
sambo7but I can't install many things,that seem to need to read hw rev to work properly22:56
keriosambo7: wait, phone works? really? :O22:57
keriowell, looks like SOMEONE overestimated the importance of CAL22:59
sambo7at least it's ringing & I can initiate calls...will try if I get a connection...cause I'm not using it as a phone primarily22:59
keriono one uses it as a phone primarily :)22:59
kerioi wonder if it's possible to use libcal to write the bt mac address23:03
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sambo7:)just switched my sim works-checked both directions23:04
jacekowskisambo7: bt can probably be recovered23:06
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jacekowskisambo7: how did you flash it in the end?23:07
jacekowskisambo7: phoenix?23:07
sambo7can someone take a look at product info & tell me what should be written  below Nokia N900, where my device says unknown23:08
sambo7phoenix didn't work for me23:09
sambo7coldflashing was successful but then tried to warm flash and failed23:09
sambo7with flasher the cold flashing procedure which is described, didn't work for me to23:10
sambo7flasher-3.5 -h RX-51:2101 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2.203.1_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin -c -S usb -f23:12
sambo7this is,what helped me to revive my device in the end23:12
kerioare you sure your n900 is a 2101?23:14
sambo7with the cold flashing procedure described I always got stuck after loading the temporary bl, because usb connection was lost23:14
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sambo7I'm not sure if it is23:15
sambo7when I flashed I got some output with hw rev 000023:15
sambo7which was then overriden by the flasher sw23:16
kerioi think that means "you nandtested your CAL, you moron"23:16
sambo7the 0000 hw rev was what flasher got back from the device23:16
sambo7I guess I knew that before;-)23:17
sambo7anybody any experience with using nandwrite?:-)23:18
kerioassuming you've got a partially-working CAL now, you should use libcal23:19
kerioit's a library to read and write from CAL23:19
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sambo7I guess I will have to be the forerunner once again23:21
kerioisn't that exciting?23:21
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sambo7somehow yes...23:24
keriothat's the spirit!23:25
DocScrutinizer05sambo7: I used nandwrite to flash/partition other devices23:25
sambo7is this CAL closed source or encrypted?23:26
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sambo7is it still possible to figure out which hw rev my device has with the CAL erased?23:28
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keriosambo7: i think it's been partially reverse-engineered23:30
keriothe bad thing is that a part of it has to be signed23:30
keriobut idk, if the phone works...23:30
sambo7can someone take a look at product info & tell me what should be written  below Nokia N900, where my device says unknown23:31
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DocScrutinizer05I'd flash a CAL image from another device23:31
sambo7version also sys this where the hw rev should be?23:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: what if the hw revs don't match?23:32
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, BCI module loaded, nothing happens :(.23:32
keriosambo7: "Nokia N900" "Maemo 5" "Versione: 21.2011.38-1" "Indirizzo MAC WLAN: [redacted]" "Indirizzo Bluetooth: [redacted]" "IMEI: [oh hell no]"23:32
DocScrutinizer05does "0000" match to anything?23:32
keriosambo7: the hw rev should be in /proc/component_version23:33
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DocScrutinizer05not when CAL erased23:33
keriowell of course :)23:34
DocScrutinizer05sambo7: try:23:34
sambo7it says23:34
sambo7product     RX-51 nolo        1.4.14 boot-mode   normal23:34
DocScrutinizer05xterm on N900: pnatd23:34
keriohow do i exit pnatd? D:23:36
DocScrutinizer05sambo7: what do you get?23:37
DocScrutinizer05close shell23:37
sambo7V ICPR82_10w08 25-02-10 RX-51 (c) Nokia  Nokia X-XXX (RX-51) Maemo  (0.0.0) Linux version 2.6.28-omap123:37
kerioDocScrutinizer05: that's not a good way :c23:37
DocScrutinizer05or open another shel, killall pnatd23:37
keriosambo7: ouch23:37
keriohaha it doesn't even know it's a n90023:38
DocScrutinizer05kerio: :-(23:38
DocScrutinizer05err sambo7^^^23:38
DocScrutinizer05here it's Nokia N900 (RX-51 rev 2101)23:38
keriosame here23:38
kerioexcept it's 210423:38
sambo7what would be a proper output?23:38
keriohm, i wonder what are the changes between 2101 and 210423:38
DocScrutinizer05nobody knows, but jes... err Nokia23:39
sambo7what output do you guys get with that command23:39
DocScrutinizer05sambo7: you *could* tell your printed device serial number, and ask if somebody has same range23:40
keriosambo7: what DocScrutinizer05 said23:40
befordpnatd crashes here :|23:40
keriobeford: sudo pnatd23:40
keriono, nvm23:40
keriono it doesn't23:40
kerioyeah, you need root privs23:40
sambo7so where I have X-XXX it should be N90023:40
keriosambo7: yep :)23:41
sambo7and what about (0.0.0)?23:41
sambo7you got that too?23:41
DocScrutinizer05V ICPR82_10w08 25-02-10 RX-51 (c) Nokia Nokia N900 (RX-51 rev 2101) Maemo 5 (21.2011.38.1) Linux version 2.6.28-omap1 Product 0560826A23:41
kerioV ICPR82_10w08 25-02-10 RX-51 (c) Nokia  Nokia N900 (RX-51 rev 2104) Maemo 5 (21.2011.38.1) Linux version Product 0560826A23:42
keriofuck yeah kernel-power23:42
keriofuck yeah higher revision23:42
sambo7so,no hw rev, no maemo and no product23:42
sambo7for me#23:42
befordV ICPR82_10w08 25-02-10 RX-51 (c) Nokia  Nokia N900 (RX-51 rev 2101) Maemo 5 (21.2011.38.1) Linux version Product 0560952A23:43
sambo7besides hw rev, I at least know/have the other data23:43
DocScrutinizer05if you'd get your serial number (or IMEI) you could ask for others with similar and what's their hw-rev23:44
sambo7so now it's up to find out about hw rev and try to get all the data back into my device23:44
sambo7I can tell you both if this could help me to completely restore my N90023:45
sambo7if I knew where this infos reside in CAL/mtd1 I also could check out different hw revisions23:47
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DocScrutinizer05CAL is a dynamic strucure, like a filesystem23:50
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sambo7maybe it's possible to find out hw rev with imei and product id...for Nokia?23:53
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