IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-08-07

jon_yok, it's that simple then00:00
Hurrianyou're going to be symlinking from home to mydocs.00:00
jon_ywhat? no, I thought just the /opt/... parts00:01
HurrianAIS looks for drivers in mydocs00:02
Hurrianjust copy them over if you can't wait00:02
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Wizzup_Does anyone know a reliable place to get n900 digitizers?00:21
Wizzup_I bought two and both don't work, they actually seem to miss one or two components compare to the original (albeit broken) one00:21
Wizzup_pretty much the last thing you remove00:24
Hurrianthe digitiser assembly is the one you touch everyday.00:24
Woody14619Wizzup_ You may want to check the TMO forums.  I believe someone posted a link to a reputable site there a while back.00:27
Woody14619Not sure if it's still valid, but worth a power-search if you haven't tried it already. ;)00:27
Wizzup_It's for a 2nd n900 I got from someone, but this'll be the seventh time I have to completely disassemble it00:28
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Wizzup_I also found something on a dutch market place for 25 euro00:28
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DocScrutinizer05Wizzup_: after 7th disassembly you should consider getting new screws ;-D In service manual they are marked "dispose and get new ones"02:33
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup_: you checked if the "missing" parts maybe could get re-used from your old digitizer?02:34
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Wizzup_Yeah @ screws. I pretty much messed this n900 up though, two screws are too far in making the slide painful for the screen (and those are the two screws I cannot get out easily)02:46
Wizzup_When I got this n900 it was already broken, so it's not that much of a problem02:46
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iluminator105how do you enable wireshark to capture in n900?03:07
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iluminator105is libcap in the repo03:13
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iluminator105than r00t|home03:54
iluminator105thanks r00t|home03:54
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RST38h...The Austrian Empire, supported by German and possibly Belgian and Romanian allies, launched a significant fleet of vessels into macrocosmic space, apparently powered by glucose harvested from dust falling onto SCP-1235.06:21
* RST38h can't begin to think what kind of controlled substances the author of this shit is on06:21
GeneralAntillesRST38h, makes for great reading, though, right?06:22
RST38hGeneral: But for Tentacled's sake, EXHALE.06:28
RST38h...The americium pellet in Examination Room 3's smoke alarm has also been seized, apparently in the belief that this mass will be fissionable via microcosmic explosives.06:29
DocScrutinizer05it seems I ran into this SCP stuff before - probably guided by a dude with nick RST38h, some years ago06:36
* DocScrutinizer05 yawns a bit morew06:37
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jpinxI have a very dead battery and when it is in the n900 and connected to the charger (either wall or laptop usb) the phone tries and retries to boot and the battery does not charge. How can I stop the cycle of booting attempts and leave te battery to charge "quietly" ?07:09
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LaoLang_coolnemo is n900's future?09:10
slonopotamusdon't summon the troll09:11
LaoLang_coolslonopotamus, what? I don't understand, my english is poor...09:14
LaoLang_coolDo you mena nemo isn't the future?09:14
slonopotamusLaoLang_cool: i'm following maemo-related community for quite a long time already and what i saw in all forks/alternatives is constant (and repeatable) rebuild of lower level system packages and then phasing out when things touched gui. that happened to mer1, deblet, meego, tizen, several even less known things. next candidates are mer2/nemo/plasma active09:17
slonopotamuswell, maybe i'm wrong this time :)09:18
LaoLang_coolslonopotamus, thanks for info, I saw a news that nemo is actively under development these days09:19
LaoLang_coolSo I get excited with it09:19
slonopotamusLaoLang_cool: and before that, meego was actively under development. and before that, maemo itself was09:19
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slonopotamusmeh, just look at mer homepage. no important news except initial project announcement.09:21
LaoLang_coolslonopotamus, oh... anyhow, I hope this time you're wrong ;p09:23
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kerioDocScrutinizer: ping11:24
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: ping11:31
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: pong11:58
kerioDocScrutinizer05: stop mce; start mce caused mce to crash or something12:05
kerioit was fun trying to restart it while blind12:05
kerioi learned that you can kinda see something, with the backlight off12:05
kerioanyway, i suggest not restarting mce at the end of the calibration12:07
DocScrutinizer05that's very strange, since quite some situations require restart of mce and I never seen it crash on that (e.g. LED pattern editor)12:09
DocScrutinizer05anyway thanks for the report12:09
keriolocking the screen via dbus-send sounds like the best option12:10
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: is it possible to use the n900 without a battery?12:28
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jon_yLaoLang_cool: in case my battery dies12:29
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: use: yes. boot: no.12:30
jon_ydies as in dead, damaged, burned12:30
jon_yso if it were on the wall charger it would continue if the battery was removed?12:30
DocScrutinizer05if you do it right then yes. I published aq mini-howto on tmo12:31
DocScrutinizer05basically you set screen to always on and stop bme12:31
jon_yok, its like on life support12:32
DocScrutinizer05and probably you want to go tabletmode or airplanemode12:32
jon_ywhat's wrong with the gsm?12:32
DocScrutinizer05too much power12:32
jon_ydrains more than the charger can provide?12:32
jon_yhmm ok12:32
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, what do you think about nemo?12:33
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: I read your article on flimsy usb charger ports, now I'm worried :(12:33
DocScrutinizer05I got no dedicated notion about it12:33
DocScrutinizer05~tell jon_y about usbfix12:34
jon_yI know about those12:35
jon_yjust that I'm not too confident on dissembly12:35
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DocScrutinizer05then just be careful12:35
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jon_yis the usb port accessible after removing the 6 screws behind the cover?12:36
jon_yor are there more disassembly?12:37
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DocScrutinizer05e.g. in this particular case it's maybe a good idea to break the iron rule how to remove a plug, and pull out the USB (charger) plug by the *cable*. make sure you pull straight away from N900, not up, down, left or right12:37
jon_yI will remember that, can hardly find any n900 replacements12:38
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: it's a bit more you need to do, particularly unplug that friggin flat plastic cable B2B connector that connects screen half with kbd half12:39
jon_yI saw that on youtube, doesn't look too simple12:39
DocScrutinizer05yep, it's delicate12:40
jon_ywith all the tiny connectors and all, and the impossibly hard to reach screen connector12:41
DocScrutinizer05if you don't feel familiar and confident with such stuff, I strongly dicourage you to do the disassembly12:42
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: yeah, I gathered that much by watching the youtube video on n900 disassembly12:50
jon_ythanks for all your work though12:51
jon_yI don't have steady hands that can do BGA solderings with standard sized solders :|12:52
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DocScrutinizer05well, for soldering down the USB that's not exactly a needed skill12:53
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DocScrutinizer05unless it's already broken12:53
jon_yI could handle the soldering, just not the disassembly, my hands are too rough12:54
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vi_An autistic chimp could solder down the USB socket.13:04
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: but the FPC B2Bcon is a biatch13:04
vi_DocScrutinizer05: the what now?13:05
vi_The ribbon that connects the screen to the mobo?13:05
DocScrutinizer05tha FlatPlasticCable Board2Board connector13:05
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Fuck trying to solder that!13:06
DocScrutinizer05that FPC itself also is a bit delicate, but the connector is really silly13:06
DocScrutinizer05and the second layer PCB with bridge traces that they soldered on back side of the PCB+connector abomination13:08
DocScrutinizer05I mean, soldering two PCB flat on flat is a silly thing in itself, not efen considering the FPC being flexible, and the plug/connector needing mechanical force to mate/unmate13:09
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infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: I mean, soldering two PCB flat on flat is a silly thing in itself, not even considering the FPC being flexible, and the plug/connector needing mechanical force to mate/unmate13:10
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jon_ys/bga/surface mount/13:54
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SpeedEvili was idly wondering about that for multilayer boards.14:04
SpeedEvilSolder board on board.14:05
SpeedEvilClearly there are mechanical issues.14:05
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edheldilSpeedEvil:  I would be more afraid of the parasite capacities14:10
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SpeedEvilThere is nothing magical about vias.14:17
SpeedEvilThe capacitance would be if anything, less than a conventionally manufactured board.14:17
jacekowskiwell, traditional boards are not that different to soldered14:17
SpeedEvilBut, there are severe mechanical issues, the board will be very fragile, as there are huge shear loads when you bend a board.14:18
jacekowskiit's a lot of double sided boards pressed together14:18
SpeedEvil- it would be less due to the lower dielectric constant of air vs pcb14:18
SpeedEvilAnd temperature changes will also cause load changes.14:18
SpeedEvilstress changes14:18
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: cleven now has a file in /etc/sudoers.d/14:33
kerio...that doesn't work14:33
kerioDocScrutinizer05: LOL!14:33
keriowhy don't people *test* this stuff? :c14:34
kerioi mean, it's not hard14:34
kerioi fixed it in my sudoers file, but still14:34
DocScrutinizer05why do people have problems with such a simple stuff like sudoers.d/*14:34
keriouser ALL = NOPASSWD: /opt/cleven/ *, /opt/cleven/ *, /opt/cleven/unload.sh14:35
keriosudoers.d doesn't work like that!14:35
kerioinfobot: ping14:35
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keriocare to guess what my fix was? :)14:36
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: are /opt/cleven/ /opt/cleven/ /opt/cleven/ at least not writable by anybody but root?14:39
kerioyeah, 755 root:root14:39
DocScrutinizer05as well as /opt/cleven ?14:40
keriothe modules are 644 root too14:40
kerioon the other hand, passwords are saved in /etc/passwd, hashed with crypt()14:42
kerioso yeah :s14:42
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keriounrelated: is there a programmatic way to find out what's the size of a partition?14:44
jon_ykerio: ivstat or something, I can;t remember14:45
kerioiostat? that's for statistics14:45
jon_yno, it gives the size14:46
jon_yyou'll need to divide it by the cluster size or something14:46
jon_yI can't remember the exact function name14:46
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keriosfdisk -s apparently :D14:48
jon_yI think I used that some time ago14:50
jon_ya bit overkill if you want to do it from a script14:51
kerioyay, sfdisk is busybox14:51
kerioso it's installed everywhere! :D14:51
keriohm, iostat is busybox too, but nobody owns that symlink for some reason14:52
keriomaybe it's busybox-power?14:52
jon_ydoes busybox-power completely replace busybox?14:52
keriobut it does so with preinst/postinst scripts, of course14:53
jon_yif it doesn't break things, sure why not14:53
kerioyeah, it's busybox-power14:54
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keriohmm, why does reswap use weird commands instead of /proc/partitions and /proc/diskstats?15:00
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keriooh balls, how do i add a literal $ in a busybox string?15:03
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jon_ykerio: \$ <-?15:20
keriojon_y: yeah, i figured :)15:20
kerioalright, my swapswap script has no dependencies other than busybox15:20
kerioi think15:20
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jon_ykerio: heh, nice name15:22
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* DocScrutinizer05 swallows any comment about messybox-bowa15:33
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils15:34
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DocScrutinizer05hell, my fist linux system had 8MB RAM, 50MB HDD, and yet it had a proper bash and complete manpages and all unixtools15:37
jon_yat work, I get to deal with csh and all it's idiosyncrasies15:38
jon_yits ENTERPRISE grade they said15:38
DocScrutinizer05(t)csh is a PITA in the long run15:38
jon_yat least busybox is consistent15:38
DocScrutinizer05oh really?15:39
kerio"enterprise" is possibly the worst reason to choose a shell15:39
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jon_ykerio: I think its just pure momentum15:39
jon_yall the scripts are held over from big iron Unix, probably15:40
jaskascripting in csh :(15:40
jon_yand then when Linux came along...15:40
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jon_yalso, CTRL+H for backspaces15:41
jon_yI'm not sure how they got that crazy :)15:41
DocScrutinizer05in work I followed instructions for building android, and it been written "tell your admin to install bash as default shell!". I did since my account came with tcsh initially, and answer been "OK, here you are. But don't complain, you're the only one with bash now"15:41
jon_ylol, I get that too15:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: what breaks if you put bash in /bin/sh?15:42
jon_ytcl is somehow cool to them :|15:42
DocScrutinizer05on N900?15:42
jon_yancient tcl8.415:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah15:42
DocScrutinizer05possibly boot of user15:43
jon_yI just do bash -i as my first command :)15:43
DocScrutinizer05not by using bash as default shell, but by replacing the messybox commands by proper fullsized unixtools15:43
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: same here15:44
jon_yI tried that, dpkg got in the way15:44
DocScrutinizer05and I fixed the *rc and profile* scripts so only bash gets bin/gnu in $PATH15:44
infoboti heard jrtools is
keriomeh, bash is both user and root's default shell here15:45
kerioand nothing broke15:46
kerioi mean, scripts are still launched by busybox15:46
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DocScrutinizer05sure, since you neither linked /bin/sh to bash, not included bash to /etc/shells15:47
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: sure, since you neither linked /bin/sh to bash, nor included bash to /etc/shells15:47
DocScrutinizer05and I bet your ps is still useless15:48
jon_ytar is useless15:48
DocScrutinizer05that too15:48
jon_ygtar is better15:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nope, my ps is the real ps15:48
keriofrom procps15:48
DocScrutinizer05gtar == bin/gnu/tar15:49
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kerioand bash is in /etc/shells15:49
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DocScrutinizer05or rather15:49
jon_yfull coreutils pleas :)15:49
DocScrutinizer05g* == bin/gnu/*15:49
keriojon_y: i have that too15:49
jon_yare those already optified?15:50
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jon_yI mean busyboc symlinks are cheap15:50
DocScrutinizer05except 415:50
DocScrutinizer05rgrep, diff, diff3 and something else15:50
keriowhat's the idiomatic way of doing if elif else chains in shell scripting?15:50
DocScrutinizer05a case ;-P15:51
kerioi need two different conditions15:51
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kerioif $SWAP1 is in /proc/swaps ... else if $SWAP2 is in /proc/swaps ... else15:52
DocScrutinizer05ternary only works for numeric in shell15:52
jon_yI like my perl scripts more than shell scripts because of this :)15:53
keriothe thing is, in real programs you're supposed to use the syscalls to get system data15:54
kerionot parse the files in /proc15:54
jon_yyeah, I've seen programmers do that in C15:55
keriooh god why15:55
kerioC string manip is horrible15:55
jon_ybecause they were script writers before introduced to C15:56
jon_ycsh+tcl everyday will do that to you15:56
DocScrutinizer05kerio: case "`cat \proc\swaps`" in "*${SWAP1}*") do-sth;; "*${SWAP2}*") do-sth-else;; *) echo "WTF?!";; esac;15:56
jon_yalso, using C++ just to cat strings15:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: ooh, neat15:56
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DocScrutinizer05or you use if then elif else15:58
jon_ykerio: btw, that massive junk to parse text is now rewriten in Java :)15:58
DocScrutinizer05jr@halley:~> help if15:58
DocScrutinizer05if: if COMMANDS; then COMMANDS; [ elif COMMANDS; then COMMANDS; ]... [ else COMMANDS; ] fi15:58
jon_ysounds at home on the dailywtf15:58
jon_yjava because regex and they can't handle pointers15:59
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keriomeh, i can afford two passes over /proc/swaps16:01
kerio fuck yeah awk16:02
jon_yyeah, rarely used tool16:03
keriogrep and arithmetics16:03
DocScrutinizer05you all make me feel so sad16:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: why?16:04
DocScrutinizer05just because... and of java16:05
DocScrutinizer05and C++16:05
keriooh, that16:05
jon_ylol, never underestimate them ever16:05
jon_ynobody there has heard of diff -u16:06
jon_ythey use context diffs16:06
jon_yalso, rcs for version control16:06
DocScrutinizer05btw there's absolutely nothing wring with fopen("/proc/foo/bar"), proc-ps does exactly that16:06
jon_ywell, yeah, but java, reallly, to parse text??16:07
DocScrutinizer05re "supposed to use syscalls"16:07
kerioDocScrutinizer05: really? :o16:07
DocScrutinizer05guess why it's called procps16:08
DocScrutinizer05and yes, even the devels say it's a bit heavy16:08
DocScrutinizer05but then otoh, who cares, since you won't call ps in an endless tight loop16:09
jon_yheh, I've seen ssh called from a GUI thread16:09
DocScrutinizer05all fine with me16:09
jon_yit paused the whole program while the remote command runs16:10
keriowtf is /core?16:10
jon_yI should get paid more to babysit the programmers :|16:10
DocScrutinizer05there are thing I kill with one system() line calling a shell cmd, that otherwise cost me 2 pages of code16:10
DocScrutinizer05like e.g. grep16:10
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DocScrutinizer05and the additional benefit is it's spawning a sub-process that terminates and frees all memory used by sh and grep, as soon as I got my result16:13
DocScrutinizer05so tell me what's wrong with it16:13
kerioapart from the waste of resources?16:13
DocScrutinizer05what friggin waste of resources? YOU are wasting resources reinventing the grep-whell in your code16:14
DocScrutinizer05memory resources, and your own resources for coding it16:14
keriooh, wheel16:14
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DocScrutinizer05it's more mem-heavy for a short while, but frees resources immediately after completing its task, while your code with builtin grep carries this grep code along all the time16:16
keriobuiltin grep = strcmp?16:16
keriowell, strncmp16:16
DocScrutinizer05go try that16:16
DocScrutinizer05you'll soon find out about boost-regex16:17
keriowhy would i want to use c++? D:16:17
DocScrutinizer05well, you can code your own regex as well16:18
DocScrutinizer05or use (3)regex16:18
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DocScrutinizer05have fun!16:19
DocScrutinizer05til you hit "q" on "man 3 regex" I already forgot that system() line I coded16:19
DocScrutinizer05plus it just works16:20
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: Well - yes and no - if the code for your grep is not used, it will be swapped out with enough memory pressure.16:20
SpeedEvil(well - not swapped out, if it's executable backed)16:20
keriounrelated: can /sys/block/mmcblk*/queue/nr_requests be increased to 4096 or 8192 (as ShadowJK_ said) without too many consequences?16:20
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: ack16:21
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: probably it's large enough to occupy a whole swap page, or several16:21
keriogrep probably is16:22
kerioa manual strncmp? not really16:22
DocScrutinizer05so what? when I need that grep only once on startup, to e.g. parse initfiles?16:22
DocScrutinizer05kerio: and again, grep != strcmp16:23
DocScrutinizer05grep == regex + read/write16:23
DocScrutinizer05and fun starts when I ned sed instead of grep, and then watch your effort coding that16:24
* kerio laughs at silly people setting nr_requests to 4 for some weird reason16:24
DocScrutinizer05oh, unrelated but inspired by... what's maxterm on fremantle now?16:25
DocScrutinizer05iirc on diablo it been 4 or sth iinsane like that16:26
DocScrutinizer05max number of pty(?)16:26
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kerioooh, found a problem - backupmenu can't give me a root console because there's no /bin/bash in backupmenu's jail16:28
keriohow fun16:28
DocScrutinizer05 /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max I guess16:28
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DocScrutinizer0516, mhm16:29
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if he already fixed that16:29
DocScrutinizer05kerio: cat /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max16:30
kerioand i haven't fixed it16:30
DocScrutinizer05I gathered that16:31
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DocScrutinizer05since you'd probably have used 10000 when you fix it ;-P16:31
DocScrutinizer05how's your reswap going along?16:32
kerioDocScrutinizer05: have you "fixed" nr_requests?16:33
DocScrutinizer05(prolly not, unless swapolube does)16:33
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DocScrutinizer054 416:33
DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/block/mmcblk*/queue/nr_requests -> 4 416:34
kerioShadowJK_ advised me to use 8192, when doing heavy I/O16:34
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I know16:34
keriois 8192 good for normal usage, i wonder?16:34
DocScrutinizer05I think I once wrote a wrapper around cp to do that temporarily16:35
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DocScrutinizer05or not16:36
kerioor at least something in between16:36
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~/bin# which cp16:36
DocScrutinizer05I can't recall the downsides it comes with16:36
DocScrutinizer05for sure thare are any16:37
DocScrutinizer05at very least regarding memory usage or sth16:37
DocScrutinizer05waaaait, that's been sooo long ago, I have to check t90016:38
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kerioi just don't get why the CPU is used, when copying files16:39
kerioi mean, why isn't it I/O bound?16:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i think that swappolube is the one that put nr_requests to 416:41
* LaoLang_coo_ is back to maemo...16:42
keriomeh, 16384 total requests doesn't seem too much to me16:43
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jon_ykerio: PIO mode?16:45
jon_ycopy to cpu cache, copy cache to device16:46
keriomeh :c16:46
DocScrutinizer05/etc/init.d/rcS: echo 4 >/sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests || echo "ohnoes, hope it boots1"16:47
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DocScrutinizer05echo 16 > /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max16:49
DocScrutinizer05and a *lot* of other nice stuff, inviting to mess with it16:49
kerioi don't have anything regarding nr_requests16:50
keriobut the other stuff is there16:50
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kerioi don't get it, why is a small nr_requests a good thing?16:51
keriorandom IO is really awful, and you gotta use RAM for something16:51
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kerioecho "/what/me/worry" > /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern16:52
keriowtf is that16:52
keriooh, no core dumps16:53
DocScrutinizer05yeah, git it in my pastebuffer to paste it here ;-)16:55
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if there's a pkg bootchart16:59
DocScrutinizer05where's friggin bootchart?17:01
keriook, screw it, i'm setting both nr_requests to 2048 at boot time17:02
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DocScrutinizer05sounds about sane17:04
kerioor maybe 8192?17:04
DocScrutinizer05tell me your results17:04
kerioShadowJK_: *poke*17:04
kerioi wonder if /etc/init.d/rcS is the right place17:05
keriobut hey, lots of parameters are tweaked there17:05
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keriook, put the echo calls right before the exit in /etc/init.d/rcS and they were applied17:08
kerioi put them at 8192 because fuck waiting 20 minutes of IO at 200kb/s to copy ONE file17:08
DocScrutinizer05I just wonder how /sbin/preinit and /etc/init.d/rcS relate17:09
keriopreinit is before init17:09
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kerio/etc/init.d/rcS is ran by /etc/event.d/rcS, which is ran by upstart (init)17:09
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kerioat least, that's what i gathered by the comments in /etc/event.d/rcS17:10
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DocScrutinizer05fsck upstart17:10
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DocScrutinizer06        case "$root" in  3)  root_dev=sda1    root_dev_name="USB hard drive"   DAFAQ?!17:13
keriotoo little too late, nokia :c17:14
HurrianDocScrutinizer06, preinit?17:14
keriodid the n810 have usb otg?17:15
Hurrianyeah, a lot of stuff for booting from somewhere other than onenand was stripped out17:15
DocScrutinizer06if [ $serial_console -ne 0 ]; then17:16
DocScrutinizer06        echo_g "Press any key for interactive startup"17:16
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DocScrutinizer06default_root=$(cal-tool --get-root-device 2> /dev/null)17:17
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DocScrutinizer06hope I fsckd my work N900 with cal-tool --set-root-device "" now17:21
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* DocScrutinizer06 reboots17:22
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DocScrutinizer06boots. Still I wonder how to recover from cal-tool --set-root-device mmc17:25
DocScrutinizer06in case it refuses to boot then17:25
DocScrutinizer06reflash won't help a messed up CAL17:25
jonwilonly way to recover from such a thing would be to build something you can use with the "load this and run it" option for the flasher and would fix your CAL17:26
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DocScrutinizer06nin101's rescue-system17:27
keriostupid infobot17:27
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DocScrutinizer06~listkeys rescue17:27
infobotFactoid search of 'rescue' by key (8): rescuecd ;; htcrescue ;; rescue disks ;; cmd: rescue (.*?) ;; rescue-os ;; superrescue ;; reiserfs-rescue-disk ;; rescue disk.17:27
DocScrutinizer06~rescue kerio17:28
* infobot leaps into certain danger to rescue kerio and return kerio to safety!17:28
kerio!seen robbiethe1st17:28
kerio~seen robbiethe1st17:28
infobotrobbiethe1st <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10h 56m 53s ago, saying: '-.-'.17:28
infoboti guess rescue-os is, or, or
HurrianDocScrutinizer, boot some other OS using flasher and chroot back into Maemo?17:29
keriothe lack of /bin/bash in backupmenu prevents me from using backupmenu's rescue shell :(17:29
jpinxI have a very dead battery and when it is in the n900 and connected to the charger (either wall or laptop usb) the phone tries and retries to boot and the battery does not charge. How can I stop the cycle of booting attempts and leave te battery to charge "quietly" ?17:29
keriojpinx: remove the battery17:30
kerioand then17:30
keriogoddammit infobot17:30
DocScrutinizer06forget it17:30
kerio~listkeys flatbat17:30
infobotFactoid search of 'flatbat' by key (2): flatbatrecover #DEL# ;; flatbatrecover.17:30
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover17:30
keriothere you go17:31
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: either you fsckdup your rootfs, then you need to reflash, or your battery is so damaged you simply need a new one17:31
jpinxDocScrutinizer06: I reckon it's the battery cos the N900@boots fine with another battery17:31
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: flatbatrecover won't help since your device already tries to boot17:31
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: :nod: battery simply dead17:32
jpinxDocScrutinizer06: I was hoping for a way to stop the autoboot function of plugging in the charger17:32
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: you can try with cleaning the contacts of battery17:32
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: what for?17:33
jpinxDocScrutinizer06: to do charge only..  not boot the device17:33
DocScrutinizer06there's no charging without boot17:33
jpinxDocScrutinizer06: so it seems ;)17:34
DocScrutinizer06except flatbatrecover, which I told you doesn't help your case17:34
jacekowskijpinx: leave battery in untill it dies17:34
jpinxthanks for the confirmation :#17:34
jacekowskijpinx: and then do flatbatrecover17:34
DocScrutinizer06jacekowski: so what's the sense in that?17:34
DocScrutinizer06jacekowski: battery already dead17:35
jacekowskinot dead enough apparently17:35
DocScrutinizer06dead enough for what?17:35
jacekowskito use emergency charging17:35
jacekowskiand not charged enough to boot the phone17:36
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kerio"not dead enough to use emergency charging" should mean "charged enough to boot the phone"17:36
kerioin an healthy battery17:36
DocScrutinizer06there's no use in emergency charging when battery already charged enough to boot system, then fails17:36
DocScrutinizer06kerio: exactly17:36
DocScrutinizer06battery dead like stinking fish17:36
kerioon the other hand, maybe charging it somewhere else will bring it back to an usable level17:36
DocScrutinizer06maybe cleaning contact would17:37
DocScrutinizer06no charging will cure that cell17:37
keriojpinx: buy two scud blue dream, patch them together, enjoy your 3000mAh battery that you need an extra case for17:37
DocScrutinizer06only hope for healing is some dirt on BSI causing that17:38
jpinxI've tried charging on an external charger17:38
kerioby the way, DocScrutinizer06, why do you have swappolube installed?17:38
keriojpinx: did you screw up the boot process in the mean time?17:38
kerioDocScrutinizer06: you always say you don't believe in that kind of scripts17:38
DocScrutinizer06I'm not even sure I have17:39
jpinxkerio: nope.. it boots fine with other good battery17:39
keriothen use that one!17:39
DocScrutinizer06and no, I never said anything like that17:39
kerioi mean, duh17:39
jpinxkerio I was hopimg for a spare ;)17:39
jpinxthanks guy.. I'll soldier on ;)17:40
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: clean contacts, retry, dispose17:40
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jpinxDocScrutinizer06: yep.  tht tomorrows top todo17:40
jpinxsleepy time here :)17:41
keriojpinx: make sure to not dispose if cleaning the contacts works!17:41
DocScrutinizer06jpinx: your battery probably got 3mAh17:41
DocScrutinizer06I guess you either deep-discharged it, or exposed it to heat17:42
DocScrutinizer06or dropped it17:42
jpinxpossibly toasted it17:42
infobotit has been said that batteryfaq is
jpinxin the sunny window ;)17:43
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vi_who wants an n950?17:49
vi_only £100017:49
vi_£1250 last time I checked.17:50
vi_on ebay.17:50
kerioi'll give you about tree fiddy17:50
* florian offers his P4 Intellistation ;)17:50
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weeedari am tryng to use my n900 in mass storage mode on a rather cheap dvd-player17:51
DocScrutinizer05err wut?17:52
weeedarone of those dvd-players with usb-functionality17:52
DocScrutinizer05you're aware that N900 MSM is about turning the N900 into a storage device?17:52
weeedaryes, i am ;)17:53
DocScrutinizer05so what would your DVD do with a USBstick plugged into it?17:53
kerio<weeedar> one of those dvd-players with usb-functionality17:53
jonwilPlay video files stored on it presumably17:53
kerioplay .avis, probably17:53
weeedaryupp, exactly17:53
DocScrutinizer05mhm, never heard of that17:54
DocScrutinizer05go ahead17:54
weeedaris vfat that much different from fat16/32?17:54
DocScrutinizer05vfat == fat3217:54
weeedarthe player doesn't recognize any partition17:54
weeedarnot really, according to the wiki17:55
DocScrutinizer05~wiki vfat17:55
weeedari have no idea what the problem is here17:55
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{infobox file system | name = FAT | developer = Microsoft, SCP, IBM, Compaq, Digital Research, Novell | full_name = File Allocation Table:FAT12 (12-bit version),FAT16/FAT16B/FAT16X (16-bit versions),FAT32/FAT32X (32-bit version with 28 bits used) | introduction_date = FAT12: August 1980 (QDOS)FAT16: August 1984 (IBM PC DOS 3.0)FAT16B: November 1987 (Compaq MS-DOS 3.31)FAT16X: August 1995 ...17:55
DocScrutinizer05>>Further, the term "VFAT" has led to various misconceptions as well, as it is sometimes erroneously used as if it would describe another variant of FAT file system to be distinguished from the FAT12, FAT16 and FAT32 file systems, while in reality it does not specify another file system, but an optional extension, which can work on top of any FAT file system, FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32.17:58
weeedarthat's what i was talking about :)17:59
DocScrutinizer05well, N900 is using VFAT17:59
DocScrutinizer05on FAT3217:59
weeedarthat dvd-player looks that cheap, i might have a problem with this fat extension17:59
weeedaror could it be the delay between plugging in, and actual availability?18:01
keriostupid question:did you enable mass storage mode on the n900 itself?18:01
weeedaryes ;)18:01
weeedarthis is the first device i come across where MSM doesn't work18:02
keriowell, the n900's mass storage mode is kinda weird18:02
kerioit shows up as two devices18:02
keriotry unplugging, and replugging without enabling mass storage mode18:02
weeedarthat shouldn't be a problem, i read on a forum that this player just chooses the first, and primamry fat32 partition, ignores the rest18:03
kerioand then manually use osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh18:03
keriolike, /dev/mmcblk0p118:03
kerioafter umounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 i mean18:03
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DocScrutinizer05you could try removing the uSD18:05
DocScrutinizer05might help18:05
entitledis there any way to get visual/audible bell working when using ssh to irssi? guess not, but haven't found any separate ssh client.18:06
weeedaralready tried that Doc :/18:06
DocScrutinizer05then speed up with your whole process, it might be timing18:07
weeedarhehe, that's a challenge ;)18:07
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weeedaralright, definitely not my timing18:12
weeedareven Kerio's manual way doesn't work18:13
weeedaris MyDocs primary?18:13
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weeedaran easy way to shrink my SD, create a 1GB partition, and use it via MSM would be fine, too.. ;)18:14
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weeedardon't ask me about it, just read it has to be "primary" and "fat32" ;)18:18
DocScrutinizer05creating additional partitions and even exporting them via MSM is an expert topic18:18
DocScrutinizer05aaah, yes it's primary18:19
DocScrutinizer05but I doubt it would export the partiton table in a way so the DVD could tell, which maybe is the problem18:19
vi_weeedar: what error does the dvd player give?18:20
weeedarnone, it just acts as if theres nothing plugged in :/18:20
DocScrutinizer05wouldn't that also be the case when there are no appropriate files found?18:20
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weeedarhm, my folder is hidden18:21
weeedarbrb :)18:21
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if that DVD player has a PS2 kbd receptacle ;-P18:23
ShadowJK_There isn't much cpu use when copying files18:23
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK_: what are the drawbacks of nr_iorequests=<large-number> ?18:24
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* ShadowJK_ uses nr_request 4 or 8 or something on diablo, and 4096 or 8192 on fremantle 18:25
DocScrutinizer05rcS sets it to 4 on fremantle18:26
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if 2048 was a better value there18:27
DocScrutinizer05for everyday use18:27
weeedarnope, still doesn't work. the scanning starts after the recognition18:27
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weeedarthe first holiday i forget to bring the tvout-cable, and i actually need it...18:28
ShadowJK_i thought it was untouched on fremantle actually18:28
DocScrutinizer05my rcS has that entry18:28
DynamitCan some one here ping and tell me if they get high respons time too?18:29
ShadowJK_DocScrutinizer; if the IO queue is stuffed full of random I/O it takes ages to clear up, that's one drawack18:29
weeedaralright guys, thansk for your help, i'll call it evil wizardry or something ;)18:29
ShadowJK_and why i use 8 on diablo, because diablo kernel's swap write pattern is totally random mostly :018:29
teotwakiDynamit: depends what you call high18:29
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: i'm not sure if it matters on SD cards18:30
DocScrutinizer05echo 4 >/sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests || echo "ohnoes, hope it boots1"18:30
DocScrutinizer05echo 4 >/sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests || echo "ohnoes, hope it boots2"18:30
ShadowJK_iirc I dimensioned it first as 4 * 5000ms (worst latency I had seen on mmc/sd), for 20s, leaving 10s margin for watchdogs etc18:30
DocScrutinizer05from rcS18:30
vi_surely you do not want your nr_requests to be lower than your io_quantum?18:31
ShadowJK_i'm pretty sure that's not original? :)18:31
teotwakiDynamit: rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 77.327/79.391/84.580/2.357 ms18:31
DocScrutinizer05I'd be surprised if that's my mess18:32
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vi_how the hell am I supposed to test all my disk tunings anyway?18:32
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ShadowJK_the || echo looks like something I would write18:32
ShadowJK_though I dont remember writing it18:32
vi_I have changed a bunch of values and have NFC if it actually does anything?18:32
Dynamitthx teotwaki: because  I have almost the hole time 100+18:32
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: ??18:32
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DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: nm18:33
teotwakiDynamit: from another location: rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 91.944/92.986/97.725/1.645 ms18:34
Dynamitokey so the server have a pretty high load right now18:34
teotwakifrom yet another location: rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 112.332/120.461/143.239/9.387 ms18:34
DocScrutinizer05wtf?! it might be my mess actually? can't recall ever writing that stuff18:36
DocScrutinizer05t900 is 'clean'18:37
DynamitI have some weird problem with Uboot I have omap1 and power-kernel when I try to load them it looks like it load the kernel but if I look close something tells my sens that it did not load the kernel I want, and when I check it by load the terminal it say losso30-0m518:38
DocScrutinizer0507. Mär 2011 rcS    :-o18:38
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DynamitI have U-boot 2012.04.001-0126918:38
Dynamitwhen I look at Image typ when it load the kernel it say arm uncompressed18:39
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conredDynamit: to check which kernel runs, type  uname -a18:46
DynamitI know but thx for remember me to check that on the phone LoL18:47
Dynamityey it's power51 even that terminal say totally different when loaded18:48
Dynamitit should say -power51 on load not 0m518:48
conredthis is just the busybox version, has nothing to do with kernel version18:49
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DocScrutinizer05was about to say just that18:50
DocScrutinizer05which makes me wonder why Dynamit needs powerkernel anyway18:51
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Dynamitokey on one of the other powerkernel it say powerkernel and not the busybox version but shit the same18:52
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DocScrutinizer05honestly I don't see anything like that on any xterm startup18:52
DocScrutinizer05BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian built-in shell (ash)18:53
DocScrutinizer05is what I get18:53
DocScrutinizer05quite obviously version info of busybox18:54
Dynamitmake me to a joke if you people want it18:55
DocScrutinizer05nobody makes jokes here18:56
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DocScrutinizer05maybe I couldn't parse your last sentence "okey..."18:57
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DocScrutinizer05I don't think busybox welcome msg changes with kernel18:58
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DocScrutinizer05maybe you got a different shell on that other system?18:59
DocScrutinizer05what for do you use powerkernel?18:59
Dynamitunder-clock, over-clock, use tools like aircrack19:01
Dynamitand some other stuffs19:01
DynamitWhat to lazy to make own tools, why do tools when it's many already out for the public to use for testing purpose of curse19:02
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DocScrutinizer05way too... ?19:06
Dynamitwhat do you mean DocScrutinizer0519:07
DocScrutinizer05trying to parse your sentence. Suggesting corrected start of sentence like I read it19:07
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DocScrutinizer05way too lazy to...19:07
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DocScrutinizer05"what to lazy to" makes no sense to me19:08
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Dynamitare sorry some times my brain thing one thing write something else19:09
DocScrutinizer05we'll decode everything, eventually ;-D19:10
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kerioShadowJK_: fremantle uses 128 for nr_requests19:29
kerioat least, here19:29
kerioShadowJK_: 4096 or 8192? i have 8192 now, but i don't really know what the drawbacks are19:30
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ShadowJK_128 is kernel default20:15
ShadowJK_tbh i dont think there any difference once it's "big enough"20:16
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kerioShadowJK_: so 8192 then :320:23
kerioi hope the watchdog won't bite me in the arse20:24
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ShadowJK_it wasnt mlocked or realtime in diablo20:28
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FIQI've a small problem with hildon-desktop20:29
FIQor, not so small really20:29
FIQIt decided to break completely20:29
FIQInput works, but not the screen20:29
FIQThe screen only shows 1 color in the whole screen, and killing hildon-desktop (which I did blindly) shows xterm briefly (so it's not hardware-related)20:30
keriorestore your backupmenu backup!20:31
freemangordonFIQ: you can try to apt-get install --reinstall hildon-desktop20:31
FIQkerio: how exactly?20:32
FIQfreemangordon: ok20:32
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freemangordonjust in case your transitions.ini are broken20:32
keriowell, you do have a full backup, DON'T YOU >:C20:32
FIQfirst I have to accomplish internet connection20:32
FIQkerio: maybe? *hides*20:32
freemangordonFIQ: do you have ssh?20:32
FIQfreemangordon, yeah20:32
FIQtrying to turn on WLAN right now20:32
FIQall blindly, yay20:32
FIQI succeed, it's connected20:33
FIQnow to connect to the ssh..20:33
FIQfreemangordon: there we go, ssh connected20:35
FIQgoing to try reinstalling now20:35
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FIQfreemangordon: Problem not solved20:41
FIQ(I killed hildon-desktop after the install, no change, should I try reboot as well?)20:41
FIQeven though I can't see any difference20:41
FIQ(and in case of fail, I have to once again blindly turn on WLAN :D)20:42
FIQkerio, what is backmenu though?20:43
FIQAh, looks like reboot helped post-reinstall20:45
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kerioFIQ: backupmenu is your security blanket for maemo20:47
FIQis it worth installing in case something like this happens again? :P20:47
keriofull backup/restore *on device*20:48
kerioyou just need to keep bootmenu working20:48
kerioand it takes very little, really20:48
FIQoh, nice20:48
FIQ@ "on device"20:48
FIQespecially since my microUSB is broken20:48
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kerioShadowJK_: what do you think is a good SD ram size?21:54
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kerioi made a script that *toggles* between two swap partitions, keeping track of fragmentation21:55
keriodoc said to use 512MiB21:55
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* ShadowJK_ uses 2g, but when 2g written i toggle to emmc and immediately back22:01
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kerioDocScrutinizer05! explain!22:07
kerioShadowJK_: DocScrutinizer05 said that me using two 4gb partitions was stupid :'(22:08
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timelesscheck out the third item on the list :)22:11
ShadowJK_well toggling from usd to usd is a bit slow i think22:12
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kerioShadowJK_: :c22:17
* ShadowJK_ waits for the "no maemo" whine :)22:19
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kerioShadowJK: i'm toggling from usd to usd anyway22:20
keriobut i still don't get why size matters22:21
ShadowJKOh I just use 2g because it's the max22:21
ShadowJKWell, there's a reason that the original swap is 768, you can't practically run the device with swap use anywhere near that, but it eases fragmentation conditions22:22
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keriono, i mean, why is 2g the max?22:26
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keriobusybox-power's swapon happily made two 4gb swap partitions for me22:30
kerioand maemo was happily using them22:30
ShadowJKmaybe that only applies to diable then22:30
keriohrmpf, i repartitioned to make two 512mb ones already22:31
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: you lied to me! >.<22:35
ShadowJKI've got 2G swap partition, but my script uses 1.5G as reswap threshold22:37
ShadowJKjust because I sometimes go a gig over or more between me running the script22:37
keriowhat do you mean you go a gig over?22:38
ShadowJKlike a 3 gig written22:39
FIQusing uSD for swapping..22:39
FIQwouldn't that kinda kill the SD card pretty fast?22:39
kerioShadowJK: between you running the script and what?22:39
kerioFIQ: meh, why?22:39
keriouSDs are perfect block devices, they do their own wear levelling22:40
FIQbecause swap, being "RAM" is written to/read from all the time?22:40
kerionah, not all the time22:40
ShadowJKkerio, if script is run and written data is below threshold, it does nothing. If it's above, it does reswap. Sometimes I don't run it often enough and it's gigabyte over the threshold :P22:40
keriooh, heh22:40
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ShadowJKFIQ, well it does that to the emmc anyway by default, so even if the wearout is true (which it isn't really), isn't it smarter to move it to uSD which is replaceable instead of emmc which is not?22:41
FIQBut I somehow got the idea that eMMC was more stable22:41
kerioShadowJK: so you say i should use a big swap partition instead of a small one?22:41
FIQWhatever :p22:41
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kerioFIQ: eMMC is faster22:42
ShadowJKWell sure if you have kingstons and other shit cards it might not be as reliable22:42
keriobut the sd is barely used, emmc holds /opt22:42
ShadowJKBut i've not had problems on N900 even with Transcend22:43
kerioShadowJK: sandisk c4 32gb represent! \o/22:43
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ShadowJKemmc holds /opt, /home (with all the nasty sqlite databases), MyDocs, and swap. That makes for heavily random access i/o when the device is under load22:43
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ShadowJKuSD has the benefit of not having all that heavy access going on, so as long as there's no swap fragmentation, the swap writes are mostly sequential22:45
ShadowJKThanks to the nokia modified swapping algorithm \o/22:45
kerioShadowJK: srsly though, reswap often or reswap big?22:48
keriohell, i could make a 8gb swap partition and just ignore it, i reboot often enough anyway22:48
ShadowJKThe amount is always the same 128M or however much you hav sitting in swap22:49
ShadowJKI just picked 2G because I didn't want to have to do it often22:49
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ShadowJKWhen I had 700M, I could tell the instant it went over, and if I was in the middle of something, I didn't want to close the app obviously, and if I didn't close nonessential stuff first, reswap took a long time, and the reswap process itself generated like 200-300M of writes sometimes, meaning I was already almost 50% on the way to another reswap already22:51
ShadowJKby "I could tell" I mean I could often tell by device responsiveness that it had gone over22:52
ShadowJKwith 2g it's a bit more diffuse22:52
keriomeh, i'm repartitioning22:55
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keriowhat the FUCK23:35
kerioapt-worker exited.23:35
keriothis makes no sense23:36
keriopasswordless sudo isn't supposed to even be there23:36
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kerioi mean, wtf23:40
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kerioi mean, i don't complain23:42
keriobut what the hell23:42
kerioohohoho, cssu bug!23:45
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ShadowJKoh wow23:57
ShadowJKI never measured 3g standby on spare n900 before23:57
keriotoo much? too little?23:58 with one-hour interval, manually compute consumption from NAC, hour ny hour: 7mA, 11mA, 8mA, 8mA, 10mA, 9, 8, 8, 8, 723:59

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