IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-08-01

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ZogG_laptopEstel_: it doesn't prove anything, as most people here donated, helped others, communicated...00:09
Estel_donated != organized donations00:09
ZogG_laptopthere are people who did that too00:10
Estel_organized donations = moved own ass to find thing required, organize gathering funds, pick it up using money,s end to recipent, and being respected enough to actually get donations00:10
Estel_Sure, and almost none of them candidate for council, sadly :(00:10
Estel_too busy for politics, probably. and that is problem - Council is, suprisingly, not about politics00:10
Estel_well, it's a pity for community, that's all00:11
ZogG_laptopman, you stop right there.00:11
Estel_when we end up with people "wanting" to become councilors, cause they're not occupied by actually contributing as organisers, it end up with politicians in Council00:11
Estel_You asked00:11
Estel_if You ask without need for getting answer, go away and don't use my time, I answered honestly and verbosely.00:11
ZogG_laptopbut you are excatly type of person you rant about00:12
Estel_Can't respect thjat someone use own time to answer your question for obvious things? gtfo.00:12
Estel_so you should like mne, as i'm not in Council anymore due to my decision00:12
Estel_and i try to convince people that actually organsie things to candidate00:12
ZogG_laptopno i don't00:12
ZogG_laptopyou just want to get back a piece of cake00:12
ZogG_laptopthat's all00:12
ZogG_laptopjust live with it00:12
Estel_fine, but it is entirely your problem. Have something valuable to say, or You just going to try to prove me, that organisers like freemangordon or vi_ ar enot good for council, and You are?00:13
ZogG_laptopi never sad i'm good for council and never asked for that00:13
ZogG_laptopit's not me or someone else00:13
Estel_honestly - I can be eprfectly honest, as i'm not p[olitician - kiss my ass. Your contributions ammount is clsoe to zero, but You like to accuse others about "Wanting a piece of cake".00:13
Estel_go, do something useful Yourself.00:13
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ZogG_laptopEstel_: or maybe you don't know my contribution?00:14
Estel_not to mention that You're quite borderline - one day You're whinning here how lfie is unfair and people bad because Your personal preoblems with work, and other day You argue jsut for sake of arguing, when someone try to convince *others* to candidate for Council00:14
Estel_have problem with me convincing vi_? Sure, don't vote for him, if he agrees (which seems unlikely)00:15
ZogG_laptopEstel_: lol00:15
ZogG_laptopyou ranting about how others are bad00:15
Estel_now You can go and *** yourself with stun baton, I'm off, no need to waste time with you00:15
ZogG_laptopand not only promoting vi00:15
ZogG_laptopi think he can decide for himself(c) your quote several times00:15
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ZogG_laptopEstel_: i hope you didn't start to drink when you quit your "job". have a good time... and btw contributing is not if you council or not, or even was kicked out of...00:16
* DocScrutinizer05 offers +q for free00:17
befr0d wanna check how my app looks ZogG_laptop? :P00:17
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ZogG_laptopi think the pal here need timel to chill out, and stop making revolutions00:17
ZogG_laptopbefr0d: why not00:17
DocScrutinizer05next one with an unfriendly word, notion, attitude, whatever, or the wrong md5 across his nick, earns first +q00:18
ZogG_laptopbefr0d: but you need to make t-shirt "ZogG is da best contributor ever - he tested how my app looks like" :P00:18
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befr0dmd5 is insecure :p00:18
ZogG_laptopbefr0d: so i wanna test00:19
DocScrutinizer05honestly guys, one whole screen full of bitchingt00:19
DocScrutinizer05and I haven't even scrolled back yet, to find more00:19
befr0dZogG_laptop: hold on let me upload it00:20
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: don't read from the begining before judging00:20
vi__what is +q?00:20
ZogG_laptopvi__: it means quite00:20
DocScrutinizer05+q == STFU00:20
ZogG_laptopor STFU in Doc's language00:20
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DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: I'm not the judge, I'm the ATF00:29
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infobotsomebody said popcorn was, which is epic.01:21
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sfdsdgfsd~seen pornstar01:34
infobotsfdsdgfsd: i haven't seen 'pornstar'01:34
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Estel_I must say, that Pali's hostmode is awesome01:37
Estel_without any disregard for H-E-N and it's authors (and considering, that Pali's hostmode is derived from this code, so hats off), it made H-E-N virtually obsolete01:37
Estel_and it's close to make it rpactically obsolete01:37
Estel_autodetection of speed works like a charm, worked 7/70 attempts with different devices, for now01:38
Estel_and during different conditions, I tried to stress it01:38
Estel_even found some small bugs, like with HUBs01:38
Estel_(trivial to fix, need to extend time before switchign speed during guessing, and then it works OK)01:38
Estel_and to this proper integration with system, and we have obvious candidate for cssu-thumb01:39
Estel_BTw, IDK what Pali did, but high-speed became completely reliable01:40
Estel_no more bitching with enumerating it - I jsut fire it up with USB HD or pendrive, and forget01:40
Estel_after few seconds (well, sometimes up to 15, but that's prive for auto-guessing) it's enumerated01:40
Estel_maybe he use better time in script that I did manually, or twaked something during kernel integration - most important thing is that it works as it should, never expected it to happen so quickly01:41
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kerioEstel_: i had to increase the times a bit01:45
keriobut yeah, it works great for me too01:45
Estel_what are Your time values?01:47
Estel_times between attempts to change speed?01:47
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Estel_btw see #maemo and my question01:56
Estel_well, I'm starting upgrading ED to wheezy :)01:57
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kerioEstel_: yeah, i put them to 2 seconds between boost and enum, and 4 seconds before checking successful enumeration02:11
kerioperhaps they could be tightened a bit, but meh02:11
Estel_between boost and enum is probably not needed, but before checking enumeration is good idea02:11
Estel_which line fo script it is in? i haven't traced it yet02:11
kerioEstel_: i think it waits 2 seconds by default02:11
Estel_and no need, if You traced it already ;)02:11
keriosearch for usb_enum02:12
kerioor "if usb_attached"02:12
keriothere are two sleep calls02:12
kerioi put them as 2 and 4, not sure what the defaults are02:12
Estel_damn, Pali told me sysfs lcoation fro altering current used during charging, but it was on IRc, now need to search through logs... silly me should write it instantly02:14
infobotsomebody said pali was
Estel_yea, found it02:20
Estel_cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/charge_current02:20
Estel_dafuq? 0_o?02:20
Estel_da very, very fuck?02:21
keriooh wow02:21
kerioyour battery must be really good02:21
Estel_maybe it calculates it from my battery capacity02:21
Estel_well, it's not calibrated yet02:21
Estel_it's 3Ah, and now calibrated as 2,6Ah only02:21
Estel_still, charging chip will accept 1250 max02:21
Estel_and given such value jsut use default 950 i'm afraid02:21
Estel_cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/current_limit02:23
kerioEstel_: try putting it in the 500mA mode02:24
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Estel_cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150-0/termination_current02:25
Estel_wut? Are the divided by smth, or what?02:25
Estel_s/divided/to be divided/02:25
infobotEstel_ meant: wut? Are the to be divided by smth, or what?02:25
Estel_DocScrutinizer, any comment on those values? Do you have idea, how they should be "consumed"?02:27
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Estel_here is source code that implement those entries02:28
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Estel_it seems, that 1750 is 950 mAh02:55
Estel_300 more than 1750 is 2050, which is what sysfs want to accept as max, so it's 1250, which is also 300 more than 95002:55
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Estel_lwoest possible value is 1350, which is 400 less than 1750 (default value), jsut like 550 is 400 less than 95002:56
Estel_and 450 is lowest possible value for chip as in mA02:56
Estel_I wonder, why it translates like that iun sysfs entries02:56
Estel_no idea about current_limit that is 1800 by default, and doesn't want to set itself higher02:56
Estel_or termiantion_current which is 6650, no idea how to translate it to real numbers02:56
Estel_maybe the same way as charge_current ;)02:56
robbiethe1stWell, erm, check the bq27xx datasheet?02:57
robbiethe1stThen, setup an i2C call snooper02:57
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Estel_why i2c call snooper? Pali already included charging module in kernel03:18
Estel_it's just about editing syfs entries for it03:18
robbiethe1stIn that case, you've got the source03:19
Estel_BTW, i've checked script used in backupmenu, and it's indeed outdated one, not the latest and greates shadowjk prepared03:19
Estel_now, do you have idea how values are calculated re mA values? :)03:19
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Estel_charge_current is for sur elike I described it, but termination_current doesn't want to play nicely03:20
Estel_it's 6550 by default, which seems to be 100 mA03:20
Estel_as lowest is 6500, which would be 50 mA, lowest accepted by chip03:20
Estel_but, if You change it, you can't change it back to 6550, it jsut doesn't maccept it (!) despite it was default value03:21
Estel_then, higher current accepted by chip is 400 mA, which would be 6850. But, it accept 6800 as max03:21
Estel_and generally, no matter what You set, it changes itself to *either* 6800 or 6500, doesn;'t accept anything between, even default value of 6550. I wonde,r if it's bug03:21
Estel_after all, default value of sysfs entry should be re-aplicable later, too?03:22
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Estel_robbiethe1st, I've updated charge script in backupmenu03:30
Estel_also, I've included things needed for lzma comprfession in extrafiles and, where applicable in filelist.txt (list to copy)03:30
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Estel_lzma compression is much more effective than gzip for things we have in rootfs and optfs03:31
Estel_and people who used compressed backup - like me - do it overnight, usually, so increased time shouldn't be a concern03:31
Estel_as a result, my rootfs.tar.lzma file from backupmenu is ~60 MB (!)03:31
Estel_wanna me to push update to extras-devel?03:32
robbiethe1stOut of curiosity, can we use lzma compression in ubifs?03:32
Estel_erm? how so? we're lzma'ing tar with rootfs content03:32
Estel_jsut like we're gzip'ing tar with rootfs content, before03:32
robbiethe1stNot BM wisr03:33
robbiethe1stI mean, in the FS itself?03:33
Estel_no idea, honestly03:33
Estel_doesn't see why not, though03:33
Estel_you can put there lzma file as any other03:33
Estel_but, we have compression already there, transparent one03:33
Estel_IDK if putting lzma compressed file wouldn't result in file becoming *bigger* after ubifs compression on it03:33
robbiethe1stI mean to use LZMA as that transparent compression, instead of gzip or w/e03:33
Estel_we can't03:33
Estel_and it would be GODDAMN slow03:34
robbiethe1stFor writes, reads or both?03:34
Estel_we're using gzip as ubifs transparent compression? I think that it's not true03:34
robbiethe1stBM wise, send me a copy of the tarball please03:34
robbiethe1stI recall that there's two types of transparent compression in ubifs03:34
Estel_robbiethe1st, sure, another thing - in my modification, compression is done via lzma only, no option to gz it (I jsut replaced what was needed), You may want to allow 2 types of comnpression03:35
robbiethe1stOne which is used for new files, and one which was used on /some/ of the files in the rootfs image03:35
Estel_still, I think that if someone compress it, he want msot compression, and don't care about time03:35
robbiethe1stProbably, yeah03:35
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Estel_robbiethe1st, unfortunately, I have no idea as for ubifs compression :(03:35
Estel_I wonder where it is documented, for our case of N900 rootfs03:35
robbiethe1st - zlib(deflate) or LZO03:36
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Estel_but no idea about our possible duality of compression types?03:38
Estel_BTW, i'm all for - when we will have everything possible thumb2-compiled - optifying rest if needed, and disabling compression at all03:38
Estel_should give some ncie speed boost to out lovely N90003:38
infobotEstel_ meant: should give some nice speed boost to out lovely N90003:38
Estel_even now I have 70 MB free rootfs, with everything thumb2'ed, it will be more - then some optification, and we should fit rootfs there03:39
Estel_then, it would be really good to put things that need to be executed quickly on rootfs03:39
Estel_as now practical action is to move things that we need to execute very fast OUT of rootfs03:39
Estel_like qt libs03:40
Estel_freemangordon tried with putting them on rootfs, due to increased space thansk to thumb2, and measurement clearly highlighted when and how much compression hurts performance03:40
Estel_..and that as result, libs are executing faster from optfs03:40
robbiethe1stI wonder; could you raid together a portion of the eMMC and your SD card(raid 0, obviously) for better performance?03:41
Estel_naaah, those media have different speeds03:41
Estel_and raid on flash is pathetic03:41
Estel_there was even some funny article about raid on usb sticks ;)03:41
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Estel_theoretically it should be double speed of slowest medium, i.e. emmc03:42
Estel_practical benefit is close to 003:42
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Estel_swap on uncompressed rootfs would be very fast, but, it's wear&tear03:42
Estel_I preffer to sue microSd for swap. It's pity, that they don't produce oens with superfast random write speed :)03:42
Estel_or ones with 2 partitions, one being RAM :P03:43
robbiethe1stWhy not look into more practical handling of memory? use zswap or w/e, possibly optimize the swap algorithms to only write in blocks etc.03:43
Estel_2 psychical ones, of course03:43
robbiethe1stAlso, possibly change memory page size from what... 1MB down to 4K?03:43
Estel_compache is sued already, and still sucks, unfortunately03:43
robbiethe1stThen the page size that gets swapped out is smaller?03:43
Estel_optimizations are done, i use optimized settings, freemangordon too, and it makes lfie easier, but03:43
Estel_rewriting swpa alghoritms to introduce proper garbage collectors is quite hard03:44
Estel_possible, but no trivial task03:44
Estel_ShadowJK have idea how it *should* look03:44
Estel_freemangordon, after discussion with him, agreed that without it, we don't have much possibilities for improving it03:44
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Estel_BTW, for now, refreshing swap as in package ereswap is a way to go03:44
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Estel_I sue 2Gb swap partition on microSd, and refreshing it isn't bad03:45
Estel_but, it never ever crerates something comparable to more RAM, obviously03:45
Estel_refreshjing swap, we already have benefits that we would have with rewriting swap alghoritms (it would just eliminate need for refreshing)03:45
Estel_as initially, swap is written in pure linear form, from beginning of partition to the end03:45
Estel_problems start after filling whole available space and re-using previously freed portions03:46
Estel_ereswap deals with that03:46
Estel_by disabling and enablign swap :P03:46
Estel_+ introducing safety mechanisms, like backup swap to be able to boot device in case of microSd card missing/malfunctioning, etc03:46
robbiethe1stI wonder... what if you simply got a small(256mb or so) ram chip-board attached to some sort of controller. Attach it to the back, connect to one of the IO pins internally03:46
robbiethe1stUse it as a block device with custom driver.03:46
Estel_good luck with connecting it to internal pins, RAM is on OneNAND chip03:47
robbiethe1stNo, not to the ram.03:47
Estel_ah, IO chips./ Well, i think they're too slow03:47
Estel_no idea, though03:47
Estel_and "some kind of controller" is the tricky part, probably03:47
Estel_I would be first one to use 1GB notebook-sized ram in mugen cover :)03:47
robbiethe1stYou might be able to do it over USB, though; at >20mb/sec random reads/writes03:48
Estel_less, our hostmode allow 4MB/s speeds only, even in high03:48
Estel_speed mode03:48
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Estel_honestly, over wifi would be faster ;)03:48
Estel_but it's rather faster swap than ram03:49
nox-haha swapping over nfs over wifi?03:49
robbiethe1stThat'd be cool03:49
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Estel_?I suspect wifi ping would kill the idea03:49
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Estel_probably, USB one too03:50
* nox- gets 30ms roundtrip times over wifi iirc03:50
robbiethe1stActually, though, the best idea is simply to reduce the memory & code footprint of your applications03:50
Estel_i.e. it would, with much effort, prove to be beneficial, but by 10 or 15%, and using megatons of battery power :P03:50
Estel_robbiethe1st, say it to fennec developers03:50
robbiethe1stYeah :\03:50
Estel_but, we're doing it via thumb :)03:50
Estel_Some will not admit it, but cssu-thumb is already a fork of CSSU, due to awesome slowness on adapting good things on the latter03:51
robbiethe1stWhich I'm skeptical about, as that reduces CPU effeciency03:51
Estel_robbiethe1st, it doesn't, in fact03:51
Estel_theoretically, yes, rpactically, no03:51
Estel_and due they introduced better compiler with thumb...03:51
Estel_practical output is faster, and many placebo-prone people admit it03:51
Estel_including me03:51
Estel_i.e. with old compiler, there was no detectable slowdown, even by biased ones03:51
robbiethe1stCouldn't we just use a better compiler with ARM, then?03:52
Estel_with new compiler, everyone You ask says it's faster03:52
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Estel_probably, but why no with thumb, as speed loses are theoretical only, and memory advantages are huge03:52
robbiethe1stWell, the most important thing then: Can we get (most of) MicroB recompiled?03:52
Estel_engine, for sure03:53
Estel_UI, no chances03:53
robbiethe1stMainly the rendering engine, which should the part that takes up the CPU03:53
Estel_freemangordon and zeq are fighting with fennec to make it usable, as first step03:53
Estel_allowing using it's gecko engine with microB Ui is another step03:53
Estel_rendering engine - absolutely yes03:53
robbiethe1stIsn't that what MicroB already has? An old version of Gecko?03:53
Estel_idela solution would be to use fennec gui with tabs, extensions etc for everyday use, and microB with same engine, for situations when you need microB specific features, like cursor mode03:54
Estel_but putting new gecko isn't swap-in thing03:54
Estel_well, even with new engine, microB won't be comaptible with addons, sadly03:54
Estel_I'm happy that freemangordon and zeq took fighting with gecko and fennec, but OTOH sometimes I wonder if proper port of chromium wouldn't be more beneficial, in long run03:55
Estel_it have cursor mode out of box...03:55
robbiethe1stWe already have a couple of addons(like flash click-to-play)03:55
Estel_extensions compatibility03:55
Estel_and isn't as much of memory hog as fennec03:55
Estel_robbiethe1st, yea, but not most important ones :P and no tab browsing03:55
robbiethe1stCouldn't we implement a wrapper for "proper" addons?03:55
Estel_nah, every addon need own re-write03:55
Estel_their work on engine level, but not in Ui one03:56
Estel_blame Nokia03:56
robbiethe1stTab browsing, though, really isn't a priority for me - Maemo's switcher is better than the tabs I've seen03:56
Estel_fennec tabsd are more convenient, but I agree that it isn't a priority03:56
Estel_it's jsut fuckin irritating that You can't open new tab in background, without switching to it03:56
Estel_in microB03:56
Estel_new tab = auto-switch, minimizing, going back to where You've been reading03:56
Estel_7x more time spent03:56
Estel_on chromium I just click a link wioth 3th mosue button modifier (shift + fn in my case)03:57
Estel_and it gently opens in background, as another tab03:57
Estel_chromium via easy debian - I suspect, that if it would get same treatment as fennec got from freemangordon and zeq, it would work quite fast03:57
robbiethe1stChromium port would be useful; I've got the 'desktop' chromium port which would be perfectly good03:57
Estel_with spell checking, things like lazarus form recovery etc installable03:57
Estel_well, i use chromium via easy debian, and it's OK - especially, when You have more RAM available, thanksw to thumb203:58
Estel_but proper port would be even better03:58
Estel_when we're speaking about browsers, I finally must test this unreleased, end-product quality flash 10 plugin, discovered not so long ago03:58
robbiethe1stOoh, link~!03:59
Estel_no idea, it was quite a "conspiracy" for some time03:59
Estel_it started with some random dude discovering Nokia's internal repo03:59
Estel_available for public03:59
Estel_idiot started to send links to many people03:59
Estel_wanting only flash 10 from it, as he found it there03:59
Estel_Pali, me and other guys decided to not announce it unless repos will be mirrored04:00
Estel_and domain searched for other repos04:00
Estel_AFAIk no additional ones were found04:00
Estel_it was mirrored weeks ago, though, and still no one announced it officialy, despite it's already spoken topic, on IRC04:00
Estel_(that's why i'm not afraid of talking about it)04:00
Estel_no chances of uploading it to cSSU, though04:00
Estel_stupid Nokians, it was finished in 201004:00
robbiethe1stAh. Just give me a link.04:01
Estel_never released, though04:01
robbiethe1stDun care if it's released, I want to mess with it. ;)04:01
Estel_Don't have it handy, ask freemangordon or Pali in normal hours04:01
Estel_i msut do same thing04:01
Estel_I have this link "somewhere"04:01
Estel_can't recall now, though04:01
Estel_which will end in me asking for link too ;)04:01
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SpeedEvilhow large a repo?04:05
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Estel_SpeedEvil, it was quite big IIRC04:10
Estel_although, haven't heard of anything useful beyond flash 10 found there04:10
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Estel_BTw I wonder if this "random guy" sending link haven't got it from some Nokian, that didn't wanted it to waste itself when they pull the plug04:11
Estel_who knows04:11
Estel_pester Pali and freemangordon for it, it's due time to announce something in public :)04:11
Estel_You can skip pestering Council - it's good if they have any idea about it, actually. when I was councilor I've sent a mail about it to Council mailing list, but no one ever replied04:12
Estel_interest was close to 0, if You don't count Woody14_something being angry that he haven't been considered "worthy" to receive link from said "one who found it" ;)04:13
Estel_nah, lets stop her,e until I'll say too much about Council internals :)04:13
Estel_It's udnerstandable that such file, as being not nokia copyrighted, won't be available for installation oficially, from repos04:13
Estel_although, wget script setting it up and downloading + torrent should be applicable04:14
jonwilI checked the repository file of this repo vs the normal repo and didn't find anything interesting except the Flash plugin04:14
Estel_at best, private repo, hosted by someone in country where sharing such thing in PRIVATE repo isn't forbidden04:14
Estel_jonwil, exactly, that was what I knew04:14
Estel_jonwil, btw, have You link handy?04:14
Estel_for flash?04:14
jonwilthat I dont04:14
Estel_robbiethe1st, iI've finished code cleanup for backupmenu04:15
Estel_sending it04:15
jonwilI have no interest in Flash on the N900, never had a reason to use it04:15
Estel_although, you know me, it's not path, just updated version of scripts and extrafiles.tar.gz, everything bundled together :)04:15
SpeedEvilFor a while, it worked very well with Iplayer04:15
Estel_jonwil, same here, mostly04:15
ds3Flash might work well to turn the N900 into a hand warmer app04:15
SpeedEvilfullscreen video worked well04:15
jonwilI think the only other thing in this repo that was even remotely interesting was some extra feedservice plugins like feedservice-plugin-cnn and feedservice-plugin-reuters04:16
Estel_jonwil, although sometimes, I run animated films for my son, via things like youtube04:16
RST38hHa ha ha ha
* RST38h cackles 04:18
robbiethe1stYou ordered one?04:19
Estel_free beer04:21
Estel_np, it works for me and changes are not dramatic - updated charger and .lzma compression instead of tar, as said (+ required libraries copied via filelist.txt and lzma added to extrafiles), but as always You may want to check it on own device04:24
robbiethe1stWhat charger improvements?04:24
Estel_afaik it's based on backupmenu 1.1-1_all.deb04:24
Estel_no idea, as script was almsot totally re-written - m04:24
Estel_for sure betetr sense resistance of chip04:24
Estel_21 mOhm04:24
Estel_charging current adjusted04:25
Estel_other than that, ask ShadowJK04:25
Estel_robbiethe1st, BTW, maybe in future, for KP suers, You would want to use kernel charging module :)04:25
infobotEstel_ meant: robbiethe1st, BTW, maybe in future, for KP users, You would want to use kernel charging module :)04:25
robbiethe1stThere's a kernel charging module? How does that work?04:26
Estel_well, see kp51r1 changelog. It's base don same logic as script, but properly implemente dinto kernel04:26
Estel_we're getting bme replacement, it's first step04:26
Estel_huge step04:26
Estel_well, now it works like that - you stop bme and load module, then connect charger ;)04:26
Estel_it jsut works, charge04:26
Estel_current and other things controllable via sysfs, I was writing about it when you arrived04:27
Estel_it detects plugging/unplugging04:27
Estel_works during hostmode04:27
Estel_i.e. hostmdoe + charging without script04:27
Estel_generally, eliminates need for scripts04:27
robbiethe1stSo all I have to do is load a specific kernel module and it does it all? sweet!04:27
Estel_next step - userland things like charging diode, low battery warnings, etc04:27
Estel_robbiethe1st, yes04:27
Estel_I suspect it will work in such early stage as backupmenu?04:27
Estel_it's called bq2415x_charger04:28
Estel_side effect - for now, bright yellow diode like emergency charging is ON (at least in Maemo), but it charges OK04:28
robbiethe1stWell, you could simply replace the '' line in bm.item with modprobe bq2415x_charger or w/e...04:28
Estel_also, remember that it's for kp users only - but I think that kp users are only one that You should care for, anyway :)04:28
Estel_robbiethe1st, yes04:29
Estel_I uploaded You version with charge script, that uses i2c, as backupmenu isn't dependent on kernel-power?04:29
robbiethe1stSo, just make a test if the .ko file exist, if it does use that, otherwise use the script04:29
Estel_also, there are older versions of KP04:29
Estel_good idea04:29
Estel_so, new version of backupmenu is soon to arrive?:)04:30
robbiethe1stHm... Do you know how to implement conditional package requirements? like KP v 49 OR i2c_tools etc...04:30
Estel_oh god, no idea, but such ocmbination seems impossible. It's rather depending on something like "kernel_feature_charging", and then, every variation that have it, specify "Provides: kernel_feature_charging"04:31
Estel_but nothing bad in depending on i2ctools04:31
Estel_You may want to wait for kp51r1 entering extras04:31
Estel_and then, drop support for non-kernel-power at all04:31
robbiethe1stIs i2ctools in extras?04:31
Estel_sure, but no idea if in -testing- or -devel or -main04:32
Estel_but it is04:32
robbiethe1stNah, I won't do that. Mainly because BM is very useful as you can use flasher to load the stock kernel back again.04:32
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Estel_my bnf package depenjds on it04:32
Estel_robbiethe1st, true04:32
robbiethe1stI'd be looking at main/testing; devel we all know has it04:32
Estel_robbiethe1st, but backups from kernel power doesn't work with stock anyeway, due to modules04:32
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Estel_so someone who want load stock kernel msut start from scratch anyway04:33
robbiethe1stEh. ot dpes/04:33
robbiethe1stIt still does04:33
robbiethe1stBecause you still have the stock modules, unless you delete them04:33
jonwilbah, this eapd daemon is turning out to be a pain in the ass to reverse engineer :(04:33
jonwilDoesn't help that it appears to have been written in C++04:33
robbiethe1stWhen BM starts, it copies the currently running kernel's modules over04:33
Estel_robbiethe1st, AFAIK it doesn't from practice, see psots in Your thread, but04:33
Estel_kernel with thumb2 support indeed deloete stock one04:33
Estel_and it's modules04:33
Estel_and you know as good as me that it's the future :)04:33
Estel_no wait, not kernel with thumb support04:34
robbiethe1stI've done it several times. What doesn't work is a backup with stock modules and a PK kernel partition04:34
Estel_cssu-thumb deletes it04:34
Estel_yes yes, agreed04:34
Estel_what i mean is that cssu-thumb deletes stock kernel (as it's useless for thumb system, anyway, it won't work reliably with stock kernel)04:34
Estel_(due to requiment for thumb silicon erratum)04:35
robbiethe1stBut as it is now, thumb is a very... specialized thing. Only for expert tweakers04:35
Estel_frankly? Everyone with single brain cell use it, sometime,s when noobs take it, with dramatic results ;)04:35
Estel_but I agree, you may as well wait with it until it becomes stable04:35
jonwilI am not using thumb yet :)04:35
jonwilheck, I dont even use CSSU yet04:36
Estel_or for community kernel, that will happen, sooner or later anyway04:36
Estel_in this or another form04:36
robbiethe1stSame. I'm using PK, because it's very important(Need OC), but CSSU, so far...04:36
robbiethe1stMainly because I'd likely need to make a new system image, start from scratch etc.04:36
Estel_IMHO, it depends on "how soon freemangordon witll lost patience for useless discussions with DocScrutinizer" and either convince CSSu maintainers to community kernel, or continue to work on thumb fork of CSSU04:37
Estel_robbiethe1st, why yopu need OC? i'm using it too, but I wonder04:37
Estel_kernel-power have many things even more important bundled in04:37
Estel_tons of bugfiuxes04:37
robbiethe1stMakes the system actually usable.04:37
Estel_just like CSSU ;)04:37
robbiethe1st600mhz is just way too slow. 950mhz is actually decent.04:37
Estel_cssu-thumb, to be precise04:37
Estel_why so? 900 is great, and smart reflex works thanks to freemangordon04:38
robbiethe1stEven with that, Slashdot brings the system to a crawl when loading a page. It can take 30s to load.04:38
Estel_950 or 1000 is psychological achi9evment, not practical one04:38
robbiethe1st(with CPU pegged)04:38
Estel_well, blame slashdot04:38
robbiethe1stYeah, but the whole /purpose/ of the device is to do what I need, right?04:38
Estel_it depends, if You need to fly to mars sitting on it, then, no ;p04:39
Estel_seriously though, sure04:39
Estel_SR with 900 mhz have muuuch better battery life, though04:39
robbiethe1stIf I didn't need it's webbrowser and such, I could just as soon use my N950, or heck, N770.04:39
Estel_950 may be unstable with both SR ON04:39
Estel_no no, I'm  rather allergic to bloated useles pages like slashdot or faceshit ;P04:39
robbiethe1stMy current setup is 100% stable, at full load for long periods of time.04:39
Estel_of course everyone is free to use whatever feel fancy04:39
Estel_are You using SR?04:40
Estel_so it's tradeoff between 50 mhz and *much* battery life04:40
robbiethe1stCustom voltages, slightly above the crashing level at each speed.04:40
Estel_your choice, of course04:40
Estel_no need, Sr does it better, anyway04:40
Estel_(custom voltages)04:40
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robbiethe1stConsidering that 90% of my battery life is used when the device is sleeping, I don't really notice it.04:40
robbiethe1stThat and the display.04:40
Estel_huh? why so?04:40
Estel_probably, because lack of SR04:41
Estel_my device uses 3-4 mA per hour, when idle04:41
Estel_4-7 with GSM on04:41
Estel_5-9 with GSM + wifi04:41
robbiethe1stIt lasts about a day, possibly two with no use for me.04:41
Estel_divice 3000 mAh, and You will see how much standby time it is04:41
robbiethe1stBut I've also got a stock battery04:42
Estel_so i'm even more surprised, that You waste standby battery life, to get 50 mhz more04:42
Estel_as Sr would undervolt it as hell during standby04:42
Estel_rising voltage to Your current levels only during heavy usage04:42
Estel_as Your static voltage settings are OK for heavy usage, doesn't crash04:42
robbiethe1stI've already done that. Major manual undervolting at low speeds04:42
Estel_so for idle they're overkill too huge04:42
Estel_not even half as effective a smartreflex, though04:43
Estel_not to mention risk of filesystem corruption04:43
robbiethe1stIt's still tiny, compared to, say, the screen.04:43
Estel_+ thing that monitors it running constantly04:43
Estel_eating more power than you ghain04:43
Estel_well, You've said that most power is sued when idle, though04:43
Estel_used, damn*04:43
Estel_well, do whatever You want, but i'm sure You're wasting at least whole day of power availability04:43
Estel_and gain from 50 mhz is neglible, if any04:44
robbiethe1stWell, I know it's better than stock/04:44
Estel_but worse than it could be, without any effort required :)04:44
robbiethe1stPlus, erm, why would that 50mhz hurt? it should never get to that speed when idle04:44
robbiethe1stShouldn't get above 500.04:44
Estel_because You need voltage set up for it for 500, 600, 720, 800, 850 mhz too04:44
Estel_as your custom undervolting is OK only for lowest states, probably04:45
Estel_also,monitor frequencies and undervolting then eats more power than You gain04:45
Estel_it's kinda batterypatch-like way of doing things04:45
Estel_(it did same thing - undervolting on loiw speed, + additionaly, custom speeds when idle)04:45
Estel_= you're wasting more power for sole act of monitoring - it goes even when device is idle...04:45
Estel_than you gain04:45
robbiethe1stI just use the kernel-settings thing.04:45
Estel_trust me on that (tm)04:46
Estel_ah, this kind of undervolting04:46
Estel_no way04:46
Estel_it's static undervolting, then04:46
robbiethe1stAnd locked each speed, then undervolted till it crashed, upped it by three notches.04:46
Estel_Sr udnervolts not only basing on speed, but also on load04:46
Estel_Your settings are what is required for max load on such speed04:46
Estel_so you avoid crash04:46
robbiethe1stSo I have settings for everything between 250 and 1150mhz.04:46
Estel_SR does it constantly, and does it good, after freemangordon fixed it04:46
robbiethe1stWhich seems importantly.04:46
robbiethe1stI.e. no risk of crashing.04:47
Estel_= for every speed, You must have constant HIGHEST load value, to avoid crash04:47
Estel_well, Sr uses LOWEST values when approriate, highest when approriate, and everything in between the same way04:47
Estel_without risk of crash ;)04:47
Estel_at the cost of 50 mhz? BTW, this single step from 900 to 950 mhz stress Your CPU much more than you gain04:47
Estel_900 is considered max "sane" frequency04:48
Estel_(that's why Sr is calculated only up to 900 mhz)04:48
Estel_(it could be higher, but no real gain on using more than 900 mhz, and much risk)04:48
robbiethe1stI am not using SR, and my settings work perfectly nicely. Next best thing: Reducing the amount of time my CPU spends in any state other than 0mhz at idle.04:48
robbiethe1stHonestly, I'd be using 1.15ghz, if it didn't heat up so much... even 1ghz makes the device warm under max load.04:48
Estel_not likely, as your device seems to eat lotta shit of power when idle04:48
Estel_well, if you burtn your device out and wouldnb't be happy with android shit, remember, I have N900's with reinforced USB port for sale, 180 euro one :)04:49
Estel_look, on power-save savyy device, You should get - with worn battery...04:49
Estel_1000 mAh / 10 mAh04:50
Estel_with GSM on04:50
Estel_wifi ON04:50
Estel_+ some idiotic widget that east power too04:50
Estel_it's 100 hours of idle time04:50
Estel_more than 4 days04:50
robbiethe1stWell, lets see... 19 hours went from 1210mAh down to 720mAh. That's idle, with wifi on, no cell or bluetooth04:50
Estel_on worn battery04:50
Estel_well, i counted with cell on04:50
RST38hEstel_:you talk too much.04:50
Estel_+ rounded it up in + for ease of calculations04:50
Estel_RST38h - IRc have nice little "close" button on top right corner04:51
Estel_thumbs up for using it, when You don't like it04:51
robbiethe1stRST38h, sadly, you're right. But meh.04:51
Estel_robbiethe1st, after calculations, your device used 26-30 mA per hour04:51
Estel_on idle04:51
Estel_it's ~3x too much04:52
robbiethe1stYes. And I believe it's due to apps running when they shouldn't.04:52
Estel_well, robbiethe1st, ythe same apply to you - I've already told you that it's Your device, and You're free to do whatever You wabt04:52
Estel_You still try to convince me, that it's power savy, though04:52
Estel_quite possible, but at least half of it is due to unoptimized settings like lack of Sr and stupid max frequency04:52
Estel_anyway, it's true that I have better things to do, so see ya04:53
robbiethe1stCan you run powertop for me?04:53
robbiethe1stI'm curious.04:53
Estel_robbiethe1st, sure04:53
Estel_I have 97% time in C404:53
Estel_I'm very oriented toward power saving, so I use it quite often ;)04:53
Estel_any specific data You're interested in?04:54
robbiethe1stThat's likely my problem then... 93% of time in C404:54
ShadowJK20-30mA is approx my idle with the usual stuff i have open04:54
robbiethe1st3.1 and 3.7% in c2-304:54
Estel_ShadowJK, sure, but for robbiethe1st, it's 26 mA with only wifi on, no celullar, no things04:54
Estel_robbiethe1st, 93% in C4 is good too04:54
Estel_and for sure doesn't explain why You're wasting 4x more power than should (when I said 3x, I forget about cellular being off)04:54
Estel_robbiethe1st, your times are in normal averages04:55
Estel_I don't understand why You insist, that Your settins re frequency and SR effects in this power wastage04:55
robbiethe1stShadowJK, what kernel are you using, and are you using SR?04:55
Estel_just curious, as it's well proved and researched fact04:55
DocScrutinizer05I wonder when channel in general will lose patience with useless estel04:55
Estel_DocScrutinizer, overreactive again? Sorry if You don't like it, but i'm free to express my opinion about Your stane re community kernel04:56
Estel_like You're free to rise your ego via attacking me due chat with Woody14_something04:56
ShadowJKrobbiethe1st; stock04:57
robbiethe1stShadowJK, and no OC?04:57
LaoLang_coolI'm learning ssh to control n900 on pc, from the wiki, I need to run 'ssh root@tablet ip' on pc, how to know what my n900 was called?04:57
Estel_but, DocScrutinizer, actually, you could be very useful here - explain robbiethe1st why 950 mhz isn't healthy frequency ;)04:57
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Estel_You're good in arguing just for sake of arguing, and i'll finish dist-upgrading easy debian to wheezy, in meantime04:58
robbiethe1stHe's tried.04:58
robbiethe1stOnce things get a bit more tested, I might try out SR if I get my second N900 back running again(broken USB)04:58
ShadowJKoc/sr is less relevant for idle04:58
ShadowJKbecause in idle it's 0MHz 0V anyway :P04:58
RST38hMourning, ShadowJK04:58
LaoLang_coolI know the question is naive04:59
Estel_ShadowJK, yea, but You know that this idle isn't perfect, and higher voltage during it wastes power anyway (during wakeups)04:59
LaoLang_coolBut how to?04:59
Estel_especially, if it's highest voltage required to run 250 without crash04:59
robbiethe1stShadowJK, yeah. But he at least thinks he's getting away with 4ma at idle04:59
Estel_LaoLang_cool, install qnetman from repositories05:00
Estel_it have widget that tells You IP ;)05:00
Estel_much better and faster ways to05:00
Estel_but this one is convenient05:00
robbiethe1st...I wonder if having BatteryEye installed adds a noticible reduction in power?05:00
LaoLang_coolEstel_, Estel_ I know how to get my ip, but I don't know how to get my n900's name05:00
Estel_robbiethe1st, unless You have it open all the time, no05:00
Estel_LaoLang_cool, you don't need name for ssh05:00
robbiethe1stHow does it track, then?05:00
RiDhey sweethearts05:01
Estel_if You have openssh installed05:01
Estel_robbiethe1st, it doesn't it just suxx info from hal, like bme05:01
LaoLang_coolEstel_, ah, thank you, learning it :)05:01
Estel_no problem05:01
Estel_just use05:01
Estel_ssh root@ip05:01
Estel_no need for name :)05:01
Estel_BTw, remember, password authentication is quite unsecure05:01
ShadowJKNow at 125mA powerdraw. 20 chans irc on 2g, gpodder through bluetooth a2dp05:02
Estel_after learning basics, You should switch to public key authentication, as in wiki05:02
Estel_Hello RiD05:02
RiDi got an old infobot running on my phone. Doesn't seem to be writing the factoids, even when as root05:02
Estel_remind me, which timezone You're in?05:02
Estel_RiD, once I tried to make infobot running from my wrt54gl router ;)05:02
Estel_RiD, go back to bed ;)05:02
LaoLang_coolEstel_, thank you! Learning it follows wiki instruction :)05:03
Estel_no problem, ask if You have other concerns :)05:03
RiDEstel_: a router where you can run perl?05:03
Estel_RiD, sure05:04
Estel_you can run debian on it, if willing to05:04
Estel_its wrt54g*05:04
RiDlol, crazy routers then05:04
Estel_actually, I run openwrt on it05:04
Estel_20$ used05:04
RiDmine is the dumbest there is05:04
Estel_well, maybe 3005:04
Estel_well, my router runs dircproxy (irc bouncer) for me05:04
RiDanyways, a (super) noobish question. How to set file write/read permissions?05:05
Estel_I plan to install voip PCBX on it05:05
Estel_and file owners - chown05:05
LaoLang_coolEstel_, wow, I'm using n900 via my pc, feel exciting!05:06
Estel_great thing, i know this feeling :)05:06
Estel_wait until you will use Your Pc from your N900 via vnc through ssh tunnel ;)05:07
RiDit's a bit slow for that05:07
Estel_or n900 from Pc with visual interface via x11vnc on N900 and VNC viewer on PC, also through ssh tunnel05:07
Estel_RiD, with correct settings it isn't bad05:07
Estel_I use TigerVNC on desktop05:07
RiDwell, there are not miracles05:07
Estel_and presence on device05:07
RiDrdesktop is faster overall, but no 3d accel or w/e05:08
RiDso you're limited05:08
robbiethe1stI've controlled my desktop from my N900... via straight SSH05:08
Estel_interestingl;y, with properly configured x11vnc on N900 and tigervnc viewer on computer, it's so fast that tux racer is playable from PC ;)05:08
robbiethe1stwho needs GUI?05:08
RiDanyways, you told me to go and I will...out of battery05:08
Estel_robbiethe1st, GUI programs need gui ;)05:08
RiDEstel_: how many fps would you say?05:08
Estel_RiD, 5?05:08
Estel_smth like that, maybe more05:09
Estel_or not05:09
Estel_as for vnc, it was quite good ;P05:09
RiDtry on 320x24005:09
Estel_would need to put device in such mode, too much hassle05:09
LaoLang_coolI don't want to use all of my n900's function via pc, just to edit file or something like that :)05:09
RiDyou mean pc?05:09
Estel_LaoLang_cool, via vi?05:09
LaoLang_coolEstel_, yes05:09
Estel_RiD, no, N90005:09
Estel_LaoLang_cool, sure, why not05:09
RiDoh, you're talking about controlling n900 from pc?05:10
Estel_RiD, yes05:10
LaoLang_coolRiD, yes :)05:10
RiDi misunderstood it05:10
Estel_in this scenario tux racer was playable from n90 visible on desktop05:10
RiDi was thinking the other way05:10
Estel_other way, it was slower05:10
RiDbut maybe the other way while forcing a terrible resolution on pc it might not be so slow05:10
Estel_well, enough to play heroes 3 in multiplayer, on desktop 1000 miles away05:10
RiDwith nvidia cards (idk with ati) you can add custom resolutions05:11
LaoLang_coolA question, I'm using putty on windows to connect n900, can I copy some files from n900 to my pc?05:11
Estel_it was funny to play Heroes with someone sitting on PC, in qwuasi-locally setup05:11
Estel_being connected to same desktop05:11
RiDonly for fullscreen programs though. For desktop i guess you'll have to override the drivers05:11
Estel_LaoLang_cool, using scp05:11
LaoLang_coolI want to backup some files under /root and /home/user05:11
Estel_LaoLang_cool, but most conveinent way is to use WinSCP on windows05:11
Estel_for that05:11
LaoLang_coolEstel_, need another tools?...05:11
Estel_LaoLang_cool, no, SCP is bundled in SSH05:11
RiDanyways, out of battery so I'll leave sooner than i thought05:12
LaoLang_coolI thought putty can do it :(05:12
Estel_but much, much more conveinent way is to use WinSCP program, which is another tool05:12
Estel_(sharing code with putty, btw)05:12
RiD3...2...1... power off05:12
Estel_bb rid05:12
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Estel_LaoLang_cool, as said, using command scp, You can05:12
* LaoLang_cool will download winscp05:12
Estel_but there is program on top of it, winSCPO, that makes it very conveinent05:12
Estel_Maemo wiki have some info about winscp IIRC05:13
LaoLang_coolEstel_, yes, under the page about ssh, it tells benifit of wiscp and the download link05:14
LaoLang_coolEstel_, I'm using winscp, what protocol I should use? sftp, scp, ftp05:16
LaoLang_coolEstel_, I'm using it, seems easy to use :)05:17
Estel_yea, it's great05:18
LaoLang_coolEstel_, Is there a console version like it? actually, I'd like to use rsync on n900, and rsync directories on n900 with directories on pc05:18
Estel_rsync on n900 can be used over network as ios, IIRC05:19
Estel_and for console like, well, you have ssh client and scp command, as said05:19
Estel_WinSCP just combines smart using of LS with commands to transfer files05:19
Estel_ls to list them05:19
Estel_+ it uses sftp as more powerful protocol than scp05:19
Estel_but You can use scp command in ssh too05:20
Estel_although you need to manually write locations etc, see scp --help05:20
Estel_winscp is much more conveinent05:20
LaoLang_coolEstel_, hard to understand :( what I want is, I can run rsync in n900, and n900 can access my pc filesystem, for example, on /media/windows, then I can 'rsync /root /media/windows/backup/root'05:22
Estel_for that see rsync manual, it can work voer network05:23
Estel_but I haven't used it much05:23
robbiethe1stLaoLang_cool, do you have a Linux desktop PC?05:23
Estel_so can't help here, search for rsync articles on wiki or TMO05:23
LaoLang_coolBoth of pc and n900 are connecting to the internet05:23
robbiethe1stCreate a windows share05:23
robbiethe1ston your desktop05:23
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st, I have only windows :(05:23
LaoLang_coolEstel_, thank you all the same!05:23
LaoLang_coolIf it's not so easy to set up, then I stick to winscp05:24
robbiethe1stWhat you'll need to do is mount the windows network share as a directory on your N900, then you can just rsync to it easily.05:24
robbiethe1stSee if that will allow you to mount it.05:26
robbiethe1stOnce it's mounted, you can just type 'mount' in the N900's terminal to see where it's mounted, then rsync to that directory05:26
LaoLang_coolrobbiethe1st, thank you, will read it.05:27
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LaoLang_cooloh, samba, nfs, too advanced concept, I think it takes sometime to understand them, I will read them later05:28
Estel_Samba on n900 is quite easy, actually05:29
LaoLang_coolEstel_, I need to set up samba on windows firstly, then let n900 know samba, then mount the samba, then use it, right?05:30
robbiethe1stEstel, help him please05:30
robbiethe1stIsn't samba just a Windows share?05:30
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Estel_no idea, never used it05:31
Estel_but I remember reading about it and it was easy + popular05:31
LaoLang_cooloh, will learn it later, use winscp at present, thank you Estel_ and robbiethe1st !05:32
Estel_no problem, have fun :)05:32
Estel_robbiethe1st, lame question05:32
Estel_I have package set on hold, via05:32
Estel_echo libpulse0 "hold" | dpkg --set-selections05:33
Estel_could You remind me command to unset hold for it?05:33
Estel_i.e. unlock it?05:33
robbiethe1stAbsolutely no clue.05:33
Estel_never messed with apt mor dpkg selections too much05:33
Estel_huh, thanks anyway05:33
robbiethe1stTry "release"05:33
Estel_release is unknown state :P05:35
gn00bdoes maemo have a repo for oovoo for the n900?05:36
robbiethe1stOh, "install" to unlock.05:36
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Estel_robbiethe1st, thanks05:38
Estel_dist-upgrade to wheezy - 825 MB to download, 725 more will be used05:41
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LaoLang_coolI'm learning phone control via dbus at, a question, why I need to tweak vibrating for each pattern?05:51
LaoLang_cooldo I need:05:51
LaoLang_cooldbus-send --system --print-reply /com/nokia/mce/request string:PatternIncomingCall05:51
LaoLang_cooldbus-send --system --print-reply /com/nokia/mce/request string:PatternCommunicationSMS05:52
LaoLang_coolvibrating is global option, I can't find where I can set it for call, sms, im respectively05:52
LaoLang_coolThe section "Set a profile value" at , there is another way to start vibrating: dbus-send --type=method_call /com/nokia/profiled string:"general" string:"vibrating.alert.enabled" string:"On"05:55
LaoLang_coolI'm confused with them05:55
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LaoLang_cooloh, I think I got it06:01
LaoLang_coolthe 'start vibrating' means start it right now :)06:01
LaoLang_coolOh, yes!06:01
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robbiethe1stIf I had a perverted mind... I might take that last comment in a different way ;)06:03
robbiethe1stBut, /obviously/ I don't.06:03
Estel_LaoLang_cool, I'm not sure, as I never needed it, but it's possible that using mce.ini, you could assign different vibrating pattern to different things06:06
Estel_on stock, same led pattern is used for mail, sms, etc, which doesn't mean you can't make it different. Same for vibra, IIRC06:07
LaoLang_coolEstel_, hmm, got it!06:07
Estel_LaoLang_cool> the 'start vibrating' means start it right now :)06:07
Estel_<LaoLang_cool> Oh, yes!06:07
Estel_<robbiethe1st> <_<06:07
Estel_made my day06:07
LaoLang_coolEstel_, My English is almost broken, haha06:08
robbiethe1stExactly. :P06:08
robbiethe1stSo... completely off topic, but do your N900s act like this transitions wise?
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Estel_which detail exactly you mean?06:09
robbiethe1stLike, the FPS/responsivness06:10
Estel_no, this one on video is sluggish06:10
robbiethe1stI'm not sure if I've just gotten spoiled, or this guy's just way overloaded it.06:11
Estel_blame faceshit webpage, probably06:11
robbiethe1stBecause I get /smooth/ transitions, probably a good 20+fps06:11
Estel_also, he may be running on stock06:11
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Estel_this video is pathetic06:11
Estel_the think that 6 opened browser windows is 6 different programs running06:11
robbiethe1stOk, good enough.06:11
robbiethe1stYeah, just ran across it on the edge of Youtube somehow06:12
Estel_well, my device is responsive even during creation of 4GB lzma archive06:12
robbiethe1stWhat IO tweaks did you do?06:12
Estel_one day freemangordon asked me to do something, and I was surprised that it's little sluggish, then I realized i totally forget about lzma archive creating for few hours already06:13
Estel_was using device as normal all this time06:13
Estel_swap on microSd ONLY06:13
Estel_and swapiness settings as in easy debian thread06:13
robbiethe1stAh, and you were creating the archive on the eMMC?06:13
Estel_(two versions there - one by freemangordon, one by me, mine are little more conservative approach)06:13
Estel_no, not06:14
Estel_actually, on microSd that time06:14
Estel_but it doesn't matter much06:14
Estel_BTW, mine and freemangordon settings, while different, are both even more different from swapiness recommended ones, which are depreciated06:14
infobotEstel_ meant: BTW, mine and freemangordon settings, while different, are both even more different from swapollube recommended ones, which are depreciated06:14
Estel_BTW, sulu, despite using such settings for swapiness on his device, wasn't able to dist-upgrade easy debian to wheezy even with -nice 19, watchdog killed him. OTOH, I not only upgrade it without problems, but I'm doing other things on device06:15
Estel_so microSd swap is a must06:16
robbiethe1stIs there any way to disable watchdog in software?06:16
robbiethe1stLike, without R&D mode?06:16
Estel_OTOh again, some people using swap on microSd without tweaked swap settings also reported crfashes, so probably, both things are required for vallaha06:16
Estel_something was ther,e probably, but either I don't remember it, or made it up06:16
Estel_anyway, R&D mdoe can be changed on the fly06:17
Estel_during device runtime06:17
robbiethe1stGood enough06:17
Estel_thanks to Mentalist Traceur's program/script06:17
Estel_robbiethe1st, speaking about backupmenu, I got feature request - shouldn't be very, very hard to code06:18
Estel_it's possible to have arbitraty config file, with locations specified, that would be ignored from backup?06:18
Estel_for example, I have /home/user/games, where I have 2GB of weboss games06:18
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Estel_such things actually never change, and don't compress well...06:18
Estel_it's PITA to have it in every backup06:19
Estel_I would backup it once manually, and perform backupmenu backups without this location06:19
Estel_afaik it's single argument in tar command, so parsing config file for it, jsut like for compression it's parsed from menu, should be trivial, yep?06:19
Estel_this feature would, actually, made many people happy06:20
Estel_others requested something similar in backupmenu's threads06:20
Estel_robbiethe1st ^^^06:20
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robbiethe1stOut of curiosity, wouldn't you keep those files either in your fat32 mydocs or in a seperate partition?06:28
robbiethe1stIf they're just symlinked from MyDocs, then it won't pick them up06:28
Estel_yea, but having such things in non-posix filesystem isn't fun06:38
Estel_\half of them must be in ext anyway06:38
Estel_permissions, such stuff06:38
Estel_\and separate partition just for games is lame06:38
Estel_can't estimate how much space I will need in 6 months, so either wasting much, or having to resize often06:39
Estel_keeping them in /home/user/games is most logical thing to do, alongside other games06:39
Estel_and simple config file for lsit of ignored locations, for backupmenu, would be definitelly useful for other things too06:40
Estel_not to mentionm that such config file could also keep data about, lets say, fi9lesystem of optfs06:40
Estel_so no more editing backupmenu files by hand to have ext4 partition rebuild during restoration06:40
Estel_!!! BTw, fire, fire!06:41
Estel_backuypmenu scripts I have sent You have ext4 coded inside06:41
Estel_sorry, forget about it06:41
Estel_it's ok for kernel-power users, but others could be unpleasantly surprised06:41
Estel_so be sure to fix it06:41
Estel_before pushing it to -devel ;)06:41
Estel_You see? config file would save us from situations like this too06:41
Estel_not to mention, that such config file is editable from backupmenu's root console (after mountroot), so it's absolutely convenient thing06:42
Estel_ok, i'm off for few hours06:42
Estel_have nice morning06:42
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Macercall barrack!08:12
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luke-jrMacer: there's a clone of you in #bitcoin-dev08:30
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Macercant say i hang out in bitcoin-dev ;)08:48
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JaffaMorning, all11:06
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ZogG_laptopX-Fade: any news on apps4meego?11:14
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: should we panic?11:14
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X-FadeZogG_laptop: No, fixing.11:15
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ZogG_laptopX-Fade: btw, can you make backup of all deps or as stskeep started to help me with script to do it, but we never finished11:16
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: as i understand it's hosted by Nokia too, so if we want at some point own repos...11:17
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Backup of what?11:17
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ZogG_laptopX-Fade: all deps of testing and stable11:17
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X-FadeZogG_laptop: Ah, that is no problem. We are migrating the servers to another datacenter and have backups at both locations now.11:17
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: good, any help needed?11:19
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Nah, it just ran out of disk because of a backup filling the space :)11:22
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: lol11:23
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: btw what servers are you moving too? somebodie's personal?11:23
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Servers owned by Nemein.11:24
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kerioyo Estel_11:40
teotwaki"somebodie" /facepalm11:40
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ZogG_laptopX-Fade: it's back online :) Venemo_N9 and qwazix now can upload their apps \o/11:43
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ZogG_laptopVenemo_N9: apps4meego is back online11:55
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PaliZogG_laptop, when apps4meego is online, you can use apt-mirror to backup full repository11:56
PaliZogG_laptop, see
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keriowhat would it take to add diffindex support to extras-devel?12:01
kerio20kB instead of 9MB is a big difference12:01
jacekowskias far as i know repo management software used there can't do that12:05
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ZogG_laptopPali: thanks12:12
PaliZogG_laptop, if there are more official/unofficial harmattan repositories, update wiki12:13
PaliI was not able to find OVI apt repository12:13
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ZogG_laptopPali: did you add MohammadAG's one? and there are a lot on OBS but they are for few packages only12:14
ZogG_laptopPali: i think ovi is not repo anymore like in maemo, in pr1.0 or even 1.1 there was no update thru manager, only thru ovi.12:14
Paliadd some usefull which contains key harm software...12:15
Paliand how is ovi sw installed?12:15
ZogG_laptopno idea12:15
ZogG_laptopPali: MohammadAG's has all the system-ui related stuff12:16
ZogG_laptoptoggles and music control and so on12:16
Paliok, then add it to harmattan list12:16
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qwazix<qwazix> what is the recommended way to enable smart reflex permanently?12:54
qwazixthe wiki redirects to kernel-power-configuration which does not mention smartreflex anywhere12:54
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!14:30
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narcosHi all. Is there a command line tool to fetch GPS co-ordinates on the N900?15:11
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narcosbindi: Yeah found that already - I was hoping for a package that someone had already created, but I shall take the Python route.15:16
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narcosNokia-N900:~# apt-get install python-location15:22
narcosE: Couldn't find package python-location15:22
narcosDo I need to add extra repos...?15:24
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narcosDoing a dpkg -i from seemed to work...15:28
narcosAny ideas on the battery drain of leaving the GPS running?15:29
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luca_hello there15:51
luca_I've uploaded my first package to extras-devel15:51
luca_but it's failing to build in i38615:51
kerionarcos: a lot, or something like that15:51
luca_here is the log
luca_the error is: dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory15:52
luca_which is not very descriptive unfortunatelly15:52
luca_does anybody know what could be the reason?15:52
luca_it builds ok for armel15:53
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chem|stluca_: include debhelper, or write debian/files your own16:31
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luca_chem|st: sorry, include debhelper where exactly?16:42
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keriois someone familiar with how /sbin/preinit works?16:57
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vi_kerio: what is the problem?17:02
vi_If you have screwed up preinit you will need to reflash rootfs.17:02
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keriovi_: no, i want to know if there's a good-ish way of putting the whole of /usr/ somewhere else17:03
keriospecifically, in emmc17:03
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kerioto get rid of fucking ~optification17:05
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"17:05
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kerioDocScrutinizer! you're back!17:06
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kerioDocScrutinizer05! you're back too!17:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: let's move /usr/ to the emmc17:06
vi_kerio: ...17:09
vi_kerio: good luck with that.17:09
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keriovi_: thanks :(17:09
vi_kerio: lookup matans script17:09
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keriovi_: doesn't move root! :c17:13
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Palikerio, I there is project M32GB which can copy full maemo into /home/maemo517:13
Paliand with fanoush bootmenu you can choose to start maemo from rootfs or maemo from eMMC17:13
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Paliinfobot, M32GB is
infobotPali: okay17:15
infobotsomebody said m32gb was
Palikerio, see ^^^17:15
keriothe thing is, all of those things are heavily nonstandard17:16
vi_did you get your otterbox yet?17:16
keriovi_: nope17:17
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keriodo you think it'll help with the rootfs move?17:17
PaliM32GB will copy full maemo system to eMMC (/home)17:19
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kerioit looks kludgy :c17:23
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keriobesides, i don't want another copy of maemo 517:24
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luca_chem|st: which program exactly? I'm not a packaging expert but AFAIK debhelper is composed from a lot of dh_* programs17:26
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LaoLang_coolHow to disable mce from commandline? I want to disable them when night from fcron17:33
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vi_LaoLang_cool: why do you want to do that?17:36
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LaoLang_coolvi_: for power saving, to turn mce off, i.e. to turn led notification off17:42
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LinuxCodeas I am here, any of you know where the lock file is for apt-get space ?17:49
LinuxCodeI dont think it is apt-get actually, it might be the maemo app installer, claiming there is no free space17:49
LinuxCodeso, there has to be a lock file somewhere17:49
edheldilmaybe you are just running apt-get and application manager at once?18:00
vi_LaoLang_cool: Turning MCE off to kill the notifiations led will not save you any power.18:02
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LaoLang_coolvi_: really? I have set led always on for notification, still need power cost I think18:04
LaoLang_coolIs there a way to turn led notification off from dbus?18:05
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vi_You could define a blank pattern and assign it the highes priority available.18:10
vi_Then trigger that pattern from dbus.18:10
vi_However notification LED power use is negligable.18:11
vi_Besides it only flashes when you are being notified of somthing!18:11
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LaoLang_coolvi_: The main power usage is phone call and screen displaying, right?18:14
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LaoLang_cooloh, time to sleep ,p18:28
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bindiany apps that let me stream my n900's camera?18:51
bindi'phonestream' .. let's try this18:52
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bindinot sure how to use this18:57
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bindiPoS doesn't work19:07
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DocScrutinizer51vi_: tanks for answering :D19:14
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bindipsst DocScrutinizer5119:18
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bindii heard you are able to help me with phonestreamer or getting my n900 to work as an ip cam19:18
bindiit's been sitting dead for a year19:18
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JaffaMohammadAG: Have you seen ?19:23
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kerioPali: what handles the notification led while charging with your module?19:35
* DocScrutinizer05 is @ vacation19:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: \o/19:36
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DocScrutinizer05so the question now is: stay 10 days @ IRC 24h/d, or walk the woods each day and ignore IRC for 10 days19:37
Venemo_N9hm, tough one19:37
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Venemo_N9are they mutually excusive?19:38
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid they're not ;-P19:38
DocScrutinizer05I got a N900 ;)19:38
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Venemo_N9you can walk the woods and you can occasionally check in to IRC19:39
kerioPali: what turns on the notification led on charge, with your battery module?19:39
DocScrutinizer05or put espeak to purpose XP19:39
Palikerio, stat pin (connected to bq24150 chip)19:40
PaliDocScrutinizer05, correct me if I'm wrong19:40
DocScrutinizer05listen what's that? A bird? A wolf? An alien? - It's Joerg walking the woods with his N900 listening to IRC19:40
Venemo_N9although I'm a bit concerned about your battery DocScrutinizer0519:40
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kerioso why does charging with bme have the blinking pattern when the screen is locked?19:40
DocScrutinizer05kerio: because that's what defined for that scenario at mce.ini19:41
Palibq2415x_charger module enable EN_STAT19:41
keriooh ok so it's just a matter of configuring the correct pattern in mce?19:41
Venemo_N9my N900 never was able to stay connected to IRC for more than a couple of hours before it ran out of battery19:41
DocScrutinizer05Venemo_N9: depending on traffic 6..18h on 2G19:42
DocScrutinizer05more like 1819:42
kerioirc is awful for battery life on gprs19:42
Venemo_N9DocScrutinizer05, that's nice!19:43
kerioPali: will your future bme replacement handle stuff like that so your charging module acts like bme wrt the interface?19:43
DocScrutinizer05Pali: for now you weren't exactly wrong (though the factoid was a bit fuzzy)19:44
DocScrutinizer05Pali: oooh you answered to kerio - then you were wrong19:45
DocScrutinizer05that's emergency steady amber only19:45
kerioemergency? D:19:46
Palikerio, bme replacement will also call mce dbus functions for charging pattern (maybe in hal bme plugin)19:46
DocScrutinizer05~tell kerio about flatbatrecover19:47
kerioi know about flatbatrecover19:47
keriobut it's definetely not emergency19:47
DocScrutinizer05Pali: how T bloody F will you call dbus from kernel module?19:47
kerio950mA until the battery is full is not emergency19:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, with an userland daemon19:48
kerioor whatevs19:48
PaliDocScrutinizer05, from hald-addon-bme19:49
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I occasionally call hardware recovery charging "emergency charging"19:49
kerioit's an emergency charge that's quite un-emergency-y19:49
PaliI think it is right place, because hald-addon-bme will be only one bme replacement daemon19:49
kerioonce that's running, and bq24whatever is correctly calibrated, the battery indicator will actually match the battery, right?19:51
DocScrutinizer05ke-recv or other kevent-listeners come to mind, but they aren't exactly linked to bme19:51
DocScrutinizer05kerio: bq27200 isn't meant to get mounted to device, so it will fail miserably when battery gets swapped19:52
kerionever swap the battery!19:52
DocScrutinizer0527x00 is for mounting *inside* battery19:52
kerioinstall two batteries!19:52
DocScrutinizer05Nokia 'absuded' the bq2720019:53
DocScrutinizer05abused even19:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, it'll just reset once the battery is removed and bupbat fails as usual, right?19:53
kerioyou can just recalibrate again19:53
DocScrutinizer05it however can't be more off than after a reste19:54
DocScrutinizer05dafaq I haven't even slightest idea to which values it resets. Since reset isn't any usecase specified in 'normal' datashett usage patterns19:55
DocScrutinizer05except for design / last messured capacity which gets reset to some 2500mAh19:56
DocScrutinizer05or somesuch19:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is there a way to manually reset it?19:56
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure, but think that yes19:59
DocScrutinizer05there's a command register that's writeable19:59
keriowhat about saving/loading data?19:59
kerioi see19:59
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DocScrutinizer05some commands don't need special programming mode that only gets enabled with Vpp on a pin20:00
DocScrutinizer05reset might be one of them20:00
DocScrutinizer05setting calibration data isn't afaik20:01
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK or SpeedEvil tried it20:01
DocScrutinizer05ask them20:01
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DocScrutinizer05but nah, I think there's no way to write anything except the "user" calculating registers, without programming mode20:02
DocScrutinizer05read the datasheet, it's only some 40pp20:03
DocScrutinizer05won't take longer than... errr... you maybe 1h?20:04
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DocScrutinizer05maybe this one also has something for you:20:05
infobotfrom memory, batteryfaq is
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teotwakithis is probably one of the worst WTFs I've seen.20:22
DocScrutinizer05haha, made my day20:24
DocScrutinizer05this and B52's-Lava(partymix)20:25
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piggzteotwaki: DocScrutinizer05: @work, i looked through some contractors code, and to not get a div-by-zero, zero was defined as 0.000120:27
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piggzsomething like, #define newZero 0.0001 //Lets not get a divide by zero error20:27
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teotwakipiggz: the one I saw was: int pi = 22/7;20:28
piggzi was appauled, becuase the code was littered with try/catch blocks, and it could have been easily caught!20:28
teotwakipiggz: there is no C++ exception for division by 0.20:29
piggzteotwaki: it was c#20:29
piggzis there one there?20:29
teotwakioh, right, I didn't know C# used #define, my bad.20:30
piggzmight have been a const20:30
teotwakiI'm going home20:31
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: WUT?? int(!!) pi?20:33
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: oh yeah.20:33
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DocScrutinizer05cool shit!20:33
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* DocScrutinizer05 goes celebrating first *real* day of vacation20:35
DocScrutinizer05err, well. First real evening of vacation20:35
DocScrutinizer05since officially I'm in vacation since monday, but just came from work 1h ago20:36
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: also: if (strlen(somestring) == true) // throw exception with message "Configuration value not set"20:36
DocScrutinizer05lint will explode20:37
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: enjoy your holiday, I'll have my first holiday in nearly 2 years in October :)20:37
teotwakior one of my favourite, which still is in our codebase:20:37
teotwaki#define 1 TRUE20:37
teotwaki#define 0 FALSE20:37
teotwaki#define -1 NOTSURE20:37
DocScrutinizer05dang, what do you do? does each of those voip cals manual asistance?20:37
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: I'm the head of engineering, in a company that hasn't had anyone in that position for as long as the company has existed. Work and challenges is not what is lacking.20:38
DocScrutinizer05you're terribly failing on HR20:39
teotwaki'later (actually, just going home, so should be back in a few minutes)20:39
DocScrutinizer05get a stand-in, dude!20:39
teotwakieh? Why are we (or me?) failing?20:39
teotwakiWell, I just need to get rid of one guy to get some more resources, then we'll see.20:40
teotwakiHim alone costs as much to the company as the three other engineers on the voip stack.20:40
teotwaki(all three together, obviously)20:40
DocScrutinizer05(HR -> Human Resources)20:41
ZogG_laptopWTF is going on here? =)20:41
piggzMohammadAG: i have responded to your plea ;)20:41
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: hey20:41
teotwakiSo when he goes, my budget will be a lot healthier, and I'll be able to hire someone who can really manage the engineering department20:41
* DocScrutinizer05 waves and heads out, shopping and boozetime20:42
ZogG_laptopi want beer20:43
piggzi probably should log out/in now kde 4.9 had installed....20:43
DocScrutinizer05dafaq WUT?20:44
DocScrutinizer05kde 4.9????20:44
ZogG_laptoppiggz: 4.9 is out already?20:44
ZogG_laptopis there roadmap or plans for 5.0?20:45
piggztoday i think, there is an opensuse repo with it in20:45
piggzthough, the opensuse repo appeared on the 27th, probably when it got tagged20:45
DocScrutinizer054.7.2 here20:45
ZogG_laptop4.8.4 is here20:46
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ZogG_laptopand i'm on funtoo, which uses gentoo portage as well20:46
DocScrutinizer05this is most recent openSuse!20:47
ZogG_laptopopensuse is more recent than gentoo. where is this world going?20:47
DocScrutinizer05well, maybe as of 4 weeks ago20:47
ZogG_laptopopensuse is most recent dist for 4 weeks or what?20:48
DocScrutinizer05huh? when my kde is 4.7.2 how's that more recent than your 4.8.4?20:48
piggzits actually 4.8.97, so, a late rc20:48
piggzmy machine is now a bastardized mix of 12.1, tumbleweed and an 4.9-rc repo :)20:49
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piggzsudo zypper ar && sudo zypper ref && sudo zypper dup20:51
piggzshould do it ;)20:51
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: there are most times 0.999 version in gentoo or git version straight from git/svn/other. So it's wierd to see opensuse getting it before us20:54
kerio~seen robbiethe1st20:54
infobotrobbiethe1st <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14h 8m 18s ago, saying: 'K'.20:54
ZogG_laptopanyway i don't use KDE20:54
ZogG_laptopand i hate actually KDE =)20:55
keriobackupmenu installing itself in /usr/ is against FHS20:55
kerioor something like that20:55
luca_woops, sorry :P20:55
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piggzwell, its still working ;)20:56
DocScrutinizer05kerio: quite20:56
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"20:57
kerioDocScrutinizer05: backupmenu is really small, and (could be) needed to boot20:58
DocScrutinizer05definitely needs to go to /8s)bin20:58
keriowell if nobody starts respecting FHS we'll never get rid of optification20:58
DocScrutinizer05(s)bin even20:58
DocScrutinizer05ooh we will, as soon as Lennart poetterings us with systemd20:59
keriowhat's systemd?21:00
DocScrutinizer05a brainfuck21:00
keriooh, upstart replacement?21:00
DocScrutinizer05the upstartd ala poettering21:00
keriowhy does that help with optification?21:01
DocScrutinizer05it declares /usr obsolete21:01
DocScrutinizer05yeah :-S21:01
keriosure, if you have a bigass /21:01
kerio...why don't we have a bigass /?21:01
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DocScrutinizer05my fedora on CF-29 already has no /usr anymore21:05
keriono seriously21:05
keriothere's plenty of space on emmc21:05
DocScrutinizer05/usr/sbin just symlink to /sbin (or was it other way round?)21:05
keriois the nand much faster?21:05
DocScrutinizer05my WTF when I checked that friggin fedora distri21:07
keriotry gobolinux >:D21:07
DocScrutinizer05kerio: (faster?) no, earlier21:07
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DocScrutinizer05if this continues that some retards fsckup linux, I have to do the Linux and fork Joergux21:09
DocScrutinizer05s/the Linux/the Linus/21:09
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: if this continues that some retards fsckup linux, I have to do the Linus and fork Joergux21:09
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DocScrutinizer05or switch to BSD21:10
DocScrutinizer05~nuke redhat21:11
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at redhat ... B☢☢M!21:11
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DocScrutinizer05~nuke canonical21:11
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at canonical ... B☢☢M!21:11
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Estel_Re bq27200 - after reset it defaults to 2048 mAh21:23
Estel_it's true that it gets confused after swapping battery21:23
Estel_OTOH, I'm glad that Nokians put it inside device, because with simial;r chip sitting ionside battery a) batteries would be more expensive and less modable) b) vendors could impose shit limits like "refuse to work after 500 charge cycles"21:24
Estel_sitting inside N900, and with batteries containing only basic safety PCB, we're at least sure than no one f*** us on faking data about battery, which is common in notebook world (where such chips *always* sit inside battery)21:25
Estel_DocScrutinizer, ping21:36
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MohammadAGFucking Mac os x22:31
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: don't do it, you are too young for this22:44
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MohammadAGZogG_laptop: I'll pretend I didn't hear that :P23:02
MohammadAGI really don't get, I got to the setup and all, and it shows me a weird animation23:03
MohammadAGAn image of a mac(?) with an arrow pointing to the power key23:03
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: btw sorry to bug you, but do you still want to give out extra n900 and did you check if you can?23:03
MohammadAGDidn't check :/23:04
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: would you advise for and/or against rootfs on emmc?23:08
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