IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-07-31

vi__also how does the new usb hostmode work?00:00
zeqvi__: it would be really handy, I'm when I break things I'm without a primary device00:00
zeqit would also let me test things out more easily00:01
zeqlike right now I'm without any translations from working on libc6, and the lables are rather cryptic!00:02
DocScrutinizer51vi__: there has to be a whole bunch of secret phantom files. At very least for factory-reset00:03
vi__well, we could start a donations drive on TMO.00:03
vi__It worked for davyp.00:03
vi__However the device he go was a real shitter.00:03
vi__It worked, but it was quite fucked.00:03
vi__zeq would you need one with a USB port?00:04
vi__although davyp was a lot more 'visible' on the forum.00:04
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vi__DocScrutinizer51: go for dinner already!00:05
DocScrutinizer51I'm already eating :-P00:05
DocScrutinizer51rx-51 you know ;-)00:05
zeqvi__: usb port is rather handy for flashing, and charging if nothing else...00:06
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DocScrutinizer51I probably can get used N900 in rather good condition for less than 15000:06
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DocScrutinizer51or find them yourself on ebay00:07
DocScrutinizer51WITHworking usb00:08
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zeqDocScrutinizer05: I bought my last N900 on ebay,, supposedly new, but not really. I was really worried about the USB port (always am)00:11
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zeqI've had two devices fail that way :(00:11
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AliasXZu strengthened it with solder etc? not done mine yet, seems ok...00:12
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DocScrutinizer51well, some precausions will stop that problem00:12
zeqNokia stole the second one, they insisted on replacing it with an E7, which gf subsequently got stolen within a couple of weeks!00:12
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vi__DocScrutinizer51: euro?00:12
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DocScrutinizer51actually each monkey can solder down a working USB00:13
DocScrutinizer51vi__: yep00:13
vi__DocScrutinizer51: can you solder down the USB?00:13
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vi__DocScrutinizer51: do you have a paypal account?00:13
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vi__so if we raised 150 euro on TMO, you could get zeq a second n900?00:14
vi__probably or can?00:15
DocScrutinizer51make that 130, 20 are already in from me00:15
vi__I see your 20 and match it.00:15
DocScrutinizer51vi__: I forgot my crystal ball at home00:16
zeqthanks guys!00:16
vi__zeq: dont count your cows till your chickens come home yet.00:16
zeqI appreciate the support :)00:16
vi__zeq: have you and FMG 'announced' fennec yet?00:17
zeqFMG put it in the thumb repo, but we're not happy to announce it until we've resolved some current breakage in mozilla-central00:18
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vi__am I allowed to talk about it?00:19
zeqbut with warnings00:19
zeqit's not ready yet00:19
vi__IE tomorrow when I make a post and I am listing why you NEED a device can I mention you and FMG are brewing up fennec.00:19
DocScrutinizer51vi__: as soon as I find a good used one For reasonable pricemI can get it00:19
zeqof course :)00:19
vi__it is alpha etc, not really released.00:20
vi__DocScrutinizer51: good.00:20
vi__A lot of people want fennec.00:20
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vi__With Qwazix saying "it is better than fennec on dualcore 1.5MHz androids with 1GB RAM.00:21
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vi__hype shall be made.00:21
DocScrutinizer51I don't care too much, but I want zeq in and activ00:21
zeqvi__: it has potential to work well, but we need to get the memory consumption down00:22
vi__DocScrutinizer51: I cocour, however to have a sucessful donation drive you have to ride a wave of hype.00:22
zeqok :)00:22
vi__zeq: And that is why it is still alpha and you need another one.00:22
vi__I moved to a new house.  I live on the bottom floor away from the street looking into the garden through big windows.  There are 2 foxes who play here every night.00:23
vi__and a badger too.00:23
zeqnice :)00:24
vi__that is at night.00:24
vi__during the day there are 2 angry squirrels.00:24
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vi__not only do they fight at each other...00:25
vi__they activley plot one anothers demise.00:25
zeqWe get foxes in our garden00:25
DocScrutinizer51thatms love00:25
zeqplenty of squirrels too!00:25
keriozeq: what's wrong with the current fennec, apart from the fact that's horrendously slow?00:25
kerioalso, why does linux use a swap partition with lower priority than another one?00:26
kerio*with a00:26
vi__kerio: you think it is slow now?00:26
zeqcurrent build (not in repo) has broken widget layout is is pretty much unusable00:26
zeqthe version in the repo has a really bad memory leak00:26
keriovi__: well, slower than microb00:26
vi__kerio: that is an unfair comparison.  Microb is loaded in the background ALL the time.00:27
zeqIt's been at least as fast a microb, in the last few weeks, but there's always something else not working.00:27
vi__where do you think your ram goes?00:27
kerioit feeds a family of ponies!00:27
zeqwe also need to change the keyboard handling to support the hildon input menthod properly00:27
zeqand I still need to get the fullscreen toggle working00:28
keriozeq: oh, that's why fn d doesn't give me the same as fn+d?00:28
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zeqso you can see the hildon status bar00:29
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zeqtoggle like in microb00:29
kerioby the way, having an actual fullscreen toggle is really weird00:29
kerio(as in, some way to run wmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen)00:29
keriothe toolbars get mixed up all the time00:30
vi__kerio: well it is at best a hack.00:30
vi__hildon was not designed to be run in that way.00:30
keriowell hildon was designed in the wrong way, isn't it00:30
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vi__kerio: no, you were.00:31
kerioaisleriot handles it well00:31
keriofuck yeah gnome00:31
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DocScrutinizer51kerio fucks gnomes?00:32
vi__~tmo! is trolls, morons and ogres.00:32
infobotvi__: okay00:32
vi__DocScrutinizer51: yes.00:32
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DocScrutinizer51should i bother?00:34
zeqeven using all the normal libc6 build options, just with some gcc47 build fixes it still isn't working.  I'm going to try a libc build with the 4.2 compiler00:34
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DocScrutinizer51zeq WTF?00:34
zeqI'm trying to work out exactly what cause the locales to go wrong00:35
keriovi__: huh?00:35
vi__kerio: it is some cool shit.00:35
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zeqIf I can get a build working, I can try one thing at a time00:35
vi__but no forkbomb roullette.00:35
DocScrutinizer51zeq: ls -laR / >before00:36
vi__zeq: take you logical approach elsewhere please.00:36
vi__gtg bb00:36
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zeqfirst thing I'm going to do is get a baseline working device00:37
zeqinstalling stock libc600:37
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zeqok. stock is working00:41
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keriohm, swap on uSD + compcache makes things a little bit slower00:43
kerioat least, it feels that way00:44
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Estel_damn, PayPal is a bitch01:07
Estel_how I hate this service01:08
Estel_one guy who bought old computer form me *accidentaly* clicked to open claim (wanted to open claim about other purchase), and immediately, bot me and he informed paypal about mistake and requested closing case01:08
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Estel_I even, just to be on safe side, provided scans of delivery documents01:08
Estel_and guess what, ScamPal decided today to close case... in favour of buyer!01:09
Estel_buyer immediately send me money back - it's good that he was honest one01:09
keriowhat the fuck01:09
Estel_but, the thing is, that PayPal got provision paid AGAIN, and also, converted my money from one currency to another, taking anothjer povision, to delete (-) net saldo01:09
Estel_so, they'01:09
Estel_have earned 4x provision, totally01:10
Estel_just by being a bitch01:10
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kerioEstel_: how do i fit two batteries in an otterbox?01:10
Estel_their custom center try to tell me, that it's ok for them to have such rule in agreement with customers, and of course they refuse to give it back01:10
Estel_kerio, no idea, ki don't use otterbox. Be creative01:11
RiDEstel_ in the end they want your money01:11
kerioit's not even here yet01:11
Estel_I contacted goverment's custom right service, #@$#@$/ Beware of PayPAl, it's becoming even more arrogant scam service than ever01:11
Estel_we will see how their #$@#$ scam rules apply to Polish law01:11
Estel_as they're offering their services here, under polish domain, not in @#%$#5 luxemburg01:12
Estel_and they can put their #@$#@$@# luxemburg contact mail, they want me to sent "complains", in their scamish ass01:12
Estel_btw funny fact - if buyer wouldn't send me money back, they could ask him to do so, but wouldn't force his money back to my account, or start legal action01:13
Estel_their "forcibly money transfer" is only in favor of buyer, never the other way01:13
keriopaypal is great if you're a dishonest buyer and you want to screw the seller over01:13
Estel_i'm officially going to bounce off every paypal payment, that won't be amrked as transfer to friends/relatives01:13
Estel_kerio, exactly01:13
Estel_It's pity that aliexpress showed scampal middle finger, and deleted payments via paypal01:14
kerioi just don't get what's wrong with wire transfers01:14
Estel_I would buy half if Cchiense country, then request refund01:14
keriothey're *definetely* traced01:14
Estel_I would like to see how PayPal arguments their "rules" to chinesee special forces ;)01:14
Estel_kerio, international wire transfers are expensive01:14
Estel_for sxmall-to-mdoerate sums, they're too expensive01:15
kerioand 4x commission from paypal is cheap?01:15
Estel_for huge sums, like money for black alu project, of course i convince every donoro/pre-order one to do so01:15
Estel_kerio, haha01:15
Estel_buyer don't care, as it's me who paid it :<01:15
Estel_but honestly, and unfortunatelyt, for such sums, even 4x commision from paypal is less expensive than wire transfer from US :(01:16
Estel_I really hope for bitmoney stabilizing on current value01:16
Estel_it's stable for more than year now01:16
Estel_bitcoins, I mean01:16
Estel_after initial speculation and 30 USd value dropping to 4 USd, it seems that 4-5 USd is real value for bitcoin01:16
Estel_I'll glady tell PayPal to go and sodomize itself01:16
Estel_with a stun baton01:16
Estel_electric one01:17
kerioEstel_: hmm, the otterbox looks awfully tight01:17
Estel_ScapPal, eBayshit, and every sub-company of this scamming family01:17
Estel_kerio, just buy otterbox big enough to handle mugen-cover sized N90001:18
Estel_job done01:18
kerioit's not custom made01:18
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kerioby the way, how's the full aluminium cover going?01:19
Estel_stable and slowly to the target :)01:19
keriocan you make one with three battery slots?01:19
keriothey should fit sideways, don't they01:19
Estel_I'm starting vacation (2 weeks and little more) from day after tomorrow, though01:19
keriohm, maybe not01:19
Estel_kerio, no, 2x18650 slot is priority01:19
Estel_and they don't fit sideways, unfortunately (bl-5j)01:19
kerio18650? :o01:19
Estel_yea, 2x 18650 for custom body replacement01:20
keriowtf is a 1865001:20
Estel_for backcover only, no chances01:20
Estel_google it ;)01:20
keriois that mAhs?01:20
Estel_18650 is standard cylyndrical most popualr in the world LiIon cell01:20
Estel_best price01:20
Estel_best availability01:20
kerioew, cylindrical01:20
Estel_will never disappear, it's used in notebooks batteries and flashlights01:21
Estel_yea, but they have higher capacity density, even if You consider "wasted" space due to cylindrical01:21
keriodo they fit in the battery slot, in length?01:21
Estel_phillips or panasonic (can't remember) made 3Ah one, lately, 3.8 mAh is also avaiulable01:21
Estel_no, they don't01:21
Estel_that's why You need custom slot01:21
Estel_and that's why they will be available for custom body01:21
kerioyeah but it becomes insanely huge :(01:21
Estel_as slot will be re-made :)01:21
keriooh, i see01:22
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Estel_I'll get rid of standard battery slot01:22
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Estel_that's why it's no chance for backcover only, as it would be extremely fat01:22
Estel_18650 have their dimensions in name01:22
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Estel_1,8 - diameter01:22
Estel_65 - lenth01:22
Estel_0 - ammount of problems with buying them ;)01:22
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Estel_18mm diameter, 65 mm length01:23
keriohow much space is there to reclaim, in the n900?01:23
Estel_2x is 6Ah easily, soon 6,8 Ah too01:23
Estel_some, with creative planning01:23
Estel_You can't cut off camera secondary board ;)01:23
kerioi both like and don't like the sound of that01:23
Estel_well, 18650 are always first to have new awesome capacity, and are always cheaper to other types, comparing same capacity01:24
Estel_no worries, 18650 variant of full body replacement will be optional01:24
keriois there a way to fit two in the same space as a regular n900 with a regular back cover?01:24
Estel_full body replacement with standard bl-5j is also going to be available01:24
Estel_kerio, wtf? no, 18650 is only for mugen-cover sized one01:24
kerioi hope that a mugen-style xl backcover will also be available01:24
Estel_for standard cover You get ONE battery, no matter what, and it's bl-5j01:24
kerioer, i meant one01:24
Estel_of course01:25
Estel_if You read thread, it's going to be available as aluminum mugen-style backcover for normal N900 body...01:25
kerioi see01:25
Estel_flat backcover alu replacement with better kickstand (mugen too) for normal body01:25
kerio(with lens cover, i hope :) )01:25
Estel_and, full body replacement in 2 variants (for now)01:25
Estel_including backcover01:25
Estel_of course, with lens cover01:25
Estel_but, backcover from ful lbody replacement *probably* won't be same as backcover for normal body01:25
Estel_due to locking mechanism01:26
Estel_that is why full body is sold with backcover only, not separately01:26
kerioi see01:26
Estel_I thjknk about two varianst of full body rep, one normal, with either flat or mugen-sized backcover...01:26
DocScrutinizer0518mm diameter?01:26
DocScrutinizer05650mm length?01:26
Estel_and one extreme, for 18650, with mugen-sized backcover only (possibly, 2mm thicker)01:26
Estel_(I mean, bigger in thickness)01:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer, haha, noi01:27
* zeq is being called to bed01:27
Estel_18 mm diameter01:27
Estel_65 lenght01:27
zeqnight guys01:27
Estel_0 stands for whatever You want01:27
Estel_0 problems01:27
Estel_night zeq!01:27
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kerioso... old-style body with flat back-cover, old-style body with xl backcover and crazy 18650 body with OMGHUEG backcover?01:27
DocScrutinizer051.8 dia sounded like in inch01:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer, why You see sausages everywhere?:P01:27
Estel_in styluses, in batteries...01:27
Estel_kerio, kinda yes01:27
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Estel_+ 2 types of backcovers only, sadly, not compatible with new bodies (but compatible wioth normal bodies)01:28
Estel_sounds complicated, but it isn't ;)01:28
kerioEstel_: what about the screen part?01:28
Estel_DocScrutinizer, it's 18 mm, for sure01:28
Estel_kerio, not touched01:28
Estel_whole screen module remains as-is, it's metallic anyway01:28
Estel_including sloiding mechanism01:28
Estel_too much hassle, nothing to gain01:28
kerioi wanted a transparent aluminium front cover! :D01:28
Estel_aka glass?;)01:29
keriono, transparent aluminium01:29
Estel_projects for future, after ending those - same, but from exotic wood ;p01:29
Estel_de luxe, completely unprofitable for usage, glamour model ;P01:29
Estel_still kinda cool, wooden body01:29
Estel_I'm also thinking about N950 and N9 (with slot for keyboard and sliding) bodies, but this is for distant future01:30
DocScrutinizer05you know, .45 is some 11mm01:30
DocScrutinizer05.38 is ~9mm01:30
Estel_DocS, hm?01:30
Estel_sure, but?01:30
DocScrutinizer051.8 probably is a light ship gun01:30
kerion900-shaped gun!01:30
keriowith *two* bullets01:30
Estel_shot inject via i2c01:31
kerioEstel_: will the xl backcovers also have the external power port?01:31
kerio(what kind of port is it? miniusb?)01:31
Estel_this one is kinda problematic. Probably, I will settle with compromise proposed, to leave slot for any kind of socket one may want to put there01:31
Estel_You know, tiight aluminum in one slot place01:32
Estel_as putting external port for everyone isn't best idea01:32
kerioi don't like thin aluminium :(01:32
Estel_due to lack of fuse, etc01:32
Estel_thin = you can easily punch it off if You want, and insert port there, for charging battery directly like dr_frost_dk, or for mod to soolder to n900 mainboard +5V, or...01:32
Estel_anyway, I'm not going to have motherboard of people's devices01:32
Estel_how I'm suppose to make external port for charging via testpads01:33
DocScrutinizer05I'd prefer a plastic patch with 2 gold pads and a magnetic iron behind it01:33
Estel_everyone would need to solder it on own01:33
Estel_DocScrutinizer, I also though about springs solution01:33
kerioEstel_: external charging port!01:33
DocScrutinizer05meh, magnet >> springs01:33
Estel_but it defeats space for dual-batteries or 18650's OTOH01:33
keriowell, can't your port also be used for charging?01:33
Estel_what "my port"?01:34
kerioisn't it *your* guide on TMO?01:34
keriohm, maybe i'm mistaken01:34
Estel_no one created 2nd usb port for N90001:34
Estel_alternate way connection is possible, but it's same port01:34
Estel_- some safety mechanism01:34
Estel_like fuse for 5V01:34
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keriono, i meant dr_frost_dk's direct battery connection01:34
kerio(it was him)01:34
Estel_or external ESd protection for USB (only chips internal one remain - it's rated 8,8 kV, so it's Ok, but still)01:35
Estel_direct battery connection allow to charge only using dedicated LiIon charger01:35
Estel_no way to Put it under 5V without boom01:35
Estel_it charge to cells directly01:35
Estel_passing by even cells safety things01:35
DocScrutinizer05aaaand you'll confuse hell outa bq2720001:35
Estel_BTw, people who want to use N900's testpads for charging, or direct battery charge, won't have problems to kick out thin aluminum in "fake" slot01:36
Estel_and insert whatever they want there01:36
keriohe said he uses it to draw power and/or to charge it with an external charger01:36
Estel_DocScrutinizer, exactly01:36
Estel_kerio, external = one as big as smal netbook01:36
Estel_or, alternatively, one small, but not very intelligent01:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: battery indicators are guesswork anyway01:36
Estel_kerio, no, they're not01:36
Estel_bme is guesswork01:36
Estel_bq27200 is very accurate in measurements01:37
kerio omg i never saw this one01:37
keriocan't it be reset somehow?01:37
Estel_I did zillions of comparissions between external charger-measurement one, and bq27200, and th latter is excellent01:37
kerioif you know you're doing weird stuff with the battery01:37
keriowill it be confused even if you *discharge* your battery?01:37
Estel_kerio, sure, sure, but all direct charge solutions confuse bq2720001:37
Estel_no, unless You power something else with it01:38
Estel_but, when You charge battery01:38
Estel_it won't know you've charged it01:38
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Estel_it will see increased voltage01:38
kerioi meant powering something else in addition to the phone01:38
Estel_and wil lthink that Your battery have 32573645634753 capacity01:38
Estel_but it will refuse such data01:38
Estel_so You will stay with de-calibrated capacity forever ;)01:38
Estel_bq27200 doesn't accept too much of a change in % from one cycle to another01:39
kerioforever = until you remove the battery?01:39
Estel_forever - until You calibrate it again and stop charging via direct-to-cell method01:39
Estel_in my signature, there is a guide for calibrating it01:39
Estel_and even for measuring capacity of battery using device only.01:39
Estel_accurately measuring (no less than using external dedicated LiIon charger with measuring capabilities)01:40
Estel_generally speaking, bq27200 is even better than them, cause it doesn't have problems with real-time changing current draw01:40
Estel_it just keep track about it01:40
Estel_external chargers just discharge battery at some constant rate01:41
Estel_like 500 mA or whatever You set01:41
Estel_and divide discharging time by this rate01:41
Estel_actually, multiply it, not divide01:41
Estel_this is why You get mA *h01:41
Estel_= mAh01:41
Estel_500mA rate and 3h discharging until full = 500 mA * 3H = 1500 mAh, basic math/physic ;)01:42
Estel_in fact it is 500 * mA *3*h, while multiplying, You can change order of elements freely, so You reduce numbers to one (1500) and put mA and h close to each other = mAh01:43
Estel_bq27200 is more uber, as it calculate it constantly, based on momnentary currents too01:43
Estel_so if it have 500 mA in half of second, and 50 for next 5 seconds, he know how to calculate it properly ;)01:44
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Estel_normally, this kijnd of chip is bundled with batteries - making them more expensive, and allowing sucker manufacturers to impose limits, like "stop to work after xxx cycles"01:45
Estel_in our case, it is inside device, so no such tricks and we have read-only access to it - good side is that batteries are easidly moddable, bad side is that it get's confused if You hotswpa batteries, or generally, change them ;)01:46
Estel_honestly, I think it's for +, after all01:46
Estel_dealing with chips inside batteries is PITA01:47
kerioEstel_: the chip resets itself if you remove the battery and power it down, right?01:47
Estel_no, unless You have internal battery (this one that keeps clock) fubar01:47
Estel_like, mostly everyone now01:47
keriooh, i see01:47
kerioit actually works for me i think01:47
Estel_try rmeoving battery for hour01:48
Estel_for me even few minutes/or even seconds is enough01:48
Estel_in fact, this green thing from inside "battery" is also outside01:48
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: WUT?01:48
Estel_quite easy to desolder and solder new, though01:48
keriogreen thing?01:49
DocScrutinizer05aaah bupbat01:49
Estel_DocScrutinizer, looking at it closely (this small coin thing) it's not01:49
Estel_in fact, every device I've disassembled have little ring of green thing outside01:49
Estel_what it is, strictly? capacitor battery?01:49
keriois there a way to get a good one that will last? or are they all bad?01:49
Estel_yes, there is, it's cheap01:49
Estel_DocScrutinizer, have links01:49
infobotsomebody said bupbat was, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months01:50
Estel_shipping is more expensive than battery, though01:50
keriohehe, it's always like that01:50
Estel_best to buy 50 at once :D01:50
Estel_DocScrutinizer, any sense in buying higher cap one?01:50
Estel_what it is, from technical point of view? hybride of capacitor and battery?01:50
DocScrutinizer05you dont need 12 monts of standby01:51
Estel_shouldn't capacitor discharge itself pretty quickly anyway?01:51
Estel_maybe should use normal silver coin from timer?:P01:51
DocScrutinizer05no, an ideal capacitor holds charge infinitely01:51
Estel_DocScrutinizer, but in real life we don't have ideal ones01:51
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DocScrutinizer05but still they hold charge over months and years01:52
Estel_sure, but I wonder what is different in this one, from normal electrolyte one01:52
Estel_or ceramic one01:52
Estel_that loses charge in seconds01:52
DocScrutinizer05I got shocked from a old aplliance that been in the attic for years01:52
Estel_yea, and shocked You in exchange01:52
Estel_but it's rare case01:52
DocScrutinizer05capacitor in filter still had charge01:53
Estel_good one, for sure01:53
DocScrutinizer05ceramic C hold charge for years01:53
Estel_but, we can't jsut put electrolyte cyllinder there, instead of this 3.3 bupbat, that's why I'm asking what are the differencies01:53
DocScrutinizer05use a goldcap01:54
Estel_cause it's for sure something slightly different01:54
DocScrutinizer051F 3.3V01:54
DocScrutinizer05works, tested01:54
Estel_:) thanks01:54
Estel_normal one is 0.06f?01:54
Estel_so this 1F 3.3V have standby time... 20 years?01:55
DocScrutinizer050.1F is OK as well, still sufficient for days of standby01:55
Estel_I'm asking, as it's more cheap for me to get other goldcap locally, than this special type of bupbat from abroad01:55
Estel_heck, even ten of them is still less than shipping.01:56
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DocScrutinizer05use any huuuuuge capacitor that fits into case. 3V3 min01:58
Estel_lol, first result on local wanna-be-ebay site - 2.2F 5,3V goldcap01:58
Estel_still less expensive than bupbat01:58
DocScrutinizer05sure but will it fit into case?01:59
Estel_of course not, but surprisingly, 3F is even cheaper and is same form size as our bupbat01:59
Estel_it msut be 3.3v, or can be higher voltage range? I think the latter02:00
infobotEstel_ meant: it must be 3.3v, or can be higher voltage range? I think the latter02:00
DocScrutinizer05higher of course ok02:00
Estel_i.e. it's "no less than 3.3", yep?02:00
Estel_yea, as with capacitors, normally02:00
DocScrutinizer053V3 min was what I wrote02:00
DocScrutinizer05minimum 3.3 Volt02:01
Estel_3.3v, I've said it too02:01
DocScrutinizer05~dict minimum02:01
infobotDictionary 'minimum' (3 of 5): the smallest possible quantity   ;; the least possible; "needed to enforce minimal standards"; "her grades were minimal"; "minimum wage"; "a minimal charge for the service"   ;; the point on a curve where the tangent changes from negative on the left to positive on the right .02:01
Estel_    3F one, lol, 3USD02:02
Estel_even less02:02
DocScrutinizer05RiD: ?????02:03
RiDoh, it's allegro :S02:03
* RiD blames the n900 screen02:03
Estel_bhungry one thinks about bread02:03
RiDi swear that looked like alnegro02:03
Estel_maybe this one, it's like another N900 in size:02:04
Estel_4,7f, 250V02:04
Estel_at least You never need to type in time again02:04
RiDuwaga chwilowo lol02:04
Estel_only 30 USD02:05
Estel_rid, don't do that. It's gibberish ;)02:05
DocScrutinizer05yeah those HVHC critters are nice'n'funny. Usually from USP02:08
DocScrutinizer05or power grid02:08
DocScrutinizer05or electric trains02:08
DocScrutinizer05MEH, that clearly ready "µF"02:09
DocScrutinizer05Jantzen Audio02:10
DocScrutinizer05clearly a completely different domain02:11
* DocScrutinizer05 offers some guarnateed 100% oxigen free copper with passivation coating power cord, Schuko plug to open wire, for DIY. Length 90cm. Only 699EUR02:13
RiDfree, but only 700?02:13
RiDi'm in02:13
DocScrutinizer05RiD: you're the newcomer troll practicant?02:15
Estel_sure, he learns from old masters ;)02:15
DocScrutinizer05or are you pupnik actually?02:15
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RiDI'm here to replace whoever got banned02:15
Estel_ <- absolutely great article. I would *love* to see communicator on N900 using this02:16
DocScrutinizer05duh, Portugal02:16
DocScrutinizer05so prolly not pupnik02:16
RiDoh i see the ban list is actually quite clean, other than bots02:16
RiDand no,  I'm not pupnik at all (i don't even know who is he/she)02:17
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Estel_no worries, DocScrutinizer remind him ocne for a while, so for sure this one have eternal place in DocScrutinizer's heart ;)02:28
Estel_although, he always refuse to tell who he was :(02:28
Estel_sounds like pumpkin to me, anyway02:28
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RiDpumpkin? weren't you talking about pupnik02:29
Estel_it still sounds like pumpkin02:30
befordwhat happened to pupnik02:30
beford~seen pupnik02:32
infobotpupnik <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 304d 23h 42m 7s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'.02:32
RiDhe died?02:33
RiDi mean, he left #maemo?02:33
RiDd'oh. ignore what my last 2 messages02:33
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DocScrutinizer05I'm both disappointed that the channel rarely exceeds 300 users lately, and happy that it stays stable at 271-27402:42
DocScrutinizer05and if you wanna know who's pupnik: there's chanlog in almost every relevant chan02:43
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RiDpupnikaand every meego conference visitor accepted TSA scaning their penis to see if they were circumcised02:53
RiDI see :/02:53
wmaroneheh, pupnik02:59
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infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/03:24
Woody14619Hey, DocScrutinizer05... What's up with this ^^^03:24
infobotit has been said that hostmode is piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware!03:24
RiD~factinfo hostmode03:25
infoboterror: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required)03:25
infobothostmode -- created by MohammadAG <~MohammadA@> at Mon May 10 21:17:16 2010 (812 days); last modified at Fri Jun  1 23:21:46 2012 by Estel_!; it has been requested 68 times, last by RiD, 33s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer.03:25
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DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: what's wrong with it? The link between estel and council?03:26
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, If you'd be so kind... nuke that ~hostmode "factinfo"03:26
Woody14619Because Estel is not Council.03:26
DocScrutinizer05~unlock hen03:27
infobotunlocking factoid hen, DocScrutinizer0503:27
Woody14619Hasn't been for a while.03:27
DocScrutinizer05go ahead03:27
Woody14619lol... I've no clue how to change things in infobot.  :P03:27
DocScrutinizer05~forget hen03:27
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot hen03:27
DocScrutinizer05~hen is a chick03:27
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0503:27
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infoboti heard hostmode is piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware!03:28
DocScrutinizer05~unlock hostmode03:28
infobotunlocking factoid hostmode, DocScrutinizer0503:28
Woody14619As long as it's attributed to Estel...  :P03:28
Woody14619I'd be curious when/where he said that... Doesn't supprise me frankly, but... :P03:29
DocScrutinizer05he defined it for infobot03:29
DocScrutinizer05like I do now03:29
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DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, hostmode is something estel abused03:29
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0503:29
Woody14619June 1st? Really?  Crack smoking.... :P03:31
DocScrutinizer05unforget hostmode03:31
Woody14619But yes, FYI: Estel is no longer Council.   He announced his resignation on TMO and in meeting.
DocScrutinizer05~unforget hostmode03:32
infobotDocScrutinizer05: cannot undeleted 'hostmode' because it already exists!03:32
infoboti heard hostmode is something estel abused03:32
infobotfrom memory, hen is a chick03:32
DocScrutinizer05~forget hostmode03:32
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot hostmode03:32
DocScrutinizer05~unforget hostmode03:32
infobotDocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'hostmode'.  Have fun now.03:32
infobothostmode is, like,
DocScrutinizer05~lock hostmode03:32
infobotlocking factoid hostmode, DocScrutinizer0503:32
infoboti guess hen is a chick03:33
DocScrutinizer05~forget hen03:33
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot hen03:33
DocScrutinizer05~unforget hen03:33
infobotDocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'hen'.  Have fun now.03:33
infobothmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or
Woody14619Thanks for the assist on that. :)03:33
DocScrutinizer05~lock hen03:33
infobotDocScrutinizer05: locking factoid hen03:33
RiDi was about to define hen03:33
RiDbut that one is just fine03:34
RiDi was doing a huge paragraph03:34
Woody14619Can't believe I missed that for this long.  Only reason I saw it was because someone highlighted me just above someone using it...03:35
Woody14619K, off to get dinner.  Thanks again Doc & RiD. :)03:38
RiDwhy thank me?03:39
Woody14619you were willing to help (even if it was locked. ;)03:39
Woody14619k, off to eat.  Have a good night.03:40
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Estel_lol, DocScrutinizer, why pinging me to death via factoid You've locked Yourself? :)04:01
Estel_Woody14619, if You would actually read council mailist on times when I was council - there was actually a discussion about it, with ivgalvez and SD69 involved, IIRC04:01
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Estel_I those stormy times I highlighted that DocScrutinizer locked this factoid in such state.04:02
Estel_of course it doesn't surprise me, that You have no clue what hppened on council mailing list :)04:02
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infobothen is, like, hostmode-easy-now, or
infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/04:03
infobothostmode is, like,
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, might wan't to nuke ~h-e-n too, as now it suggets that Council created hostmode, which is covered in thread on TMO04:03
Estel_just a little suggestion ;)04:04
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RiDweren't you sleeping?04:12
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jonwilmerlin1991: ping06:14
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zeq1DocScrutinizer, freemangordon : dselect() is stable now, the test runs without problems and *MUCH* faster! To be expected I think.07:55
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zeq1The locale problem is resolved, it stemmed from the configuration selecting -O3 optimization, which is much stronger with gcc-4.7.07:57
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freemangordonzeq1: sorry, too much noise in the channel logs, what was the preoblem?09:28
freemangordonand it seems I was disconnected an hour ago09:28
zeq1Something in the locale code, possibly, although not necessarily related to Nokia's changes was miscompiling at -O3, which is the optimization default in the libc6 pkg.09:30
zeq1it was okay with gcc-42, but then that has a much weaker O3.09:31
freemangordonaah, ok09:31
freemangordonwhat now, -O2?09:31
zeq1I don't see why it should be O3 anyway09:31
zeq1better to try to keep the code tight and in cache09:32
freemangordonyes, sure09:32
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zeq1anyway, the test ran without any problem, and much, much faster.09:33
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zeq1freemangordon: I saw a fennec update in the repo, it seems to run okay.09:37
zeq1or rather HAM saw it :)09:38
freemangordonzeq1: yeah, the one in the thumb repo is ok09:42
Estel_morning, freezeq :)09:42
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zeq1morning Estel_09:43
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freemangordonzeq1: BTW there is some development on the bug, going to read it09:43
freemangordonhmm "Status: RESOLVED FIXED "09:43
Estel_fennec! sure, I knew there is something elft that I had to test, but forget09:44
zeq1freemangordon: can you paste the url?09:44
* Estel_ just finished testing usb Mode and sending Pali bugs found09:44
povbot_Bug 778580: was not found.09:44
zeq1Estel_: is the the new hostmode that lets you charge at the same time from external power?09:45
Estel_BTw, messing with MCe is bitchy. I did something wrong, and I had situation, where my screen was *always* off - even after reboot - and every use of sldie emchanism was like with TV-out and external screen - status bar disappearing for a while, then appearing again09:45
Estel_zeq, yea, although old hostmode allowed same thing09:45
Estel_ne wone is jsut properly integrate dinto kernel, and have properly written GUI09:45
zeq1it did?09:46
Estel_hackish way09:46
Estel_You needed to invoke "boostoff" from terminal, and then, invoke charging script09:46
Estel_say thanks to MohammadAG, who haven't found time for updating GUi in 3 years09:46
Estel_that is why i'm extremely happy with usb Mode, as Pali is going to update it when needed, for sure09:46
freemangordonLOL, what a massive backout09:47
freemangordonzeq1: will you pull m-c?09:47
Estel_BTW, improved booston script used in current HEN was available for 18 months before, but again, no one wanted to update GUI. At the time when I was learning how to upload things to repositories, I announced, that I'm going to start with providing new version of HEN. MohammadAG got so scarred that I'm going to make a testbed of it, that he released update ;P09:48
Estel_well, update was just like replacing 1 script in whole package, but still09:48
Estel_erm, enough history of Maemo, volume :53509:48
Estel_as for MCE - finishing my short story, I needed to powercycle device, to bring it into working state09:49
Estel_unless no-backlight and no-lock + diode pattern going indefinitely is considered as working09:50
zeq1at least it didn't blow up :P09:50
Estel_I hope that we will be able, one day, to replace mce09:50
Estel_yea ;)09:50
jonwilgood luck replacing MCE, its a very complex piece of code :P09:50
Estel_but iamgine my WTF when slide lock didn't locked device, but blinked statusbar only, disabled touchpad (but keyboard was still working and responding!)...09:50
jonwiltrust me, I should know :)09:50
Estel_...and run charging pattern via led09:50
Estel_jonwil i know09:51
zeq1freemangordon: any commits I need to pull before pushing?09:51
Estel_but once it was said that we will never be clsoe to replacing bme :P09:51
freemangordonzeq1: no09:51
Estel_MCe is real biatch, so I just hope09:51
Estel_Well, time to stop generating "nosie in channel" (blinks to freemangordon)09:52
Estel_noise, ffs09:52
freemangordon:nod: :P09:52
Estel_see ya, gentlemans!09:52
freemangordonbye Estel_09:53
zeq1didn't rebase cleanly, need to jiggle the patches09:53
freemangordonhmm, why is that?09:53
freemangordonaah, ! thingie09:53
zeq1no, somebody changed nsnull to nullptr09:57
zeq1in widget/qt/nsWindow.cpp09:58
zeq1it was code surrounded by our #ifdef's so it lost context09:59
zeq1freemangordon: do we want the ! thingie patch in?10:00
zeq1Estel_: see ya10:00
freemangordonzeq1: lets try without it, I could easily add it locally if needed for some testing10:02
zeq1I'm trying to isolate the flag causing the libc breakage, I think it might be -ftree-vectorize10:02
zeq1ok I'll reset HEAD^10:03
freemangordonhmm, it is auto-enabled on -O3 iirc10:03
freemangordonzeq1: ok10:03
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zeq1freemangordon: ^10:05
zeq1I now have a working thumb libc with kernel the missing syscalls working :)10:06
freemangordongood, going to pull fennec10:06
zeq1-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root      796.2K Jul 31 07:57 /lib/libc-2.5.so10:06
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zeq1-rw-r--r--    1 root     root      397.6K Jul 31 07:57 /lib/libm-2.5.so10:07
zeq1freemangordon: what was the libm size before?10:07
freemangordonzeq1: libc 116057610:08
zeq1nice improvment :)10:08
freemangordonlibm 44831610:08
zeq1not bad :)10:08
zeq1I might have to email them, my server is currently down for maintainence10:09
freemangordonwut? when it will be up again, i was thinking to copy toolchain in merlin's server and to write a short howto page on wiki :(10:10
zeq1it might be up10:10
zeq1I lied, it is up10:11
zeq1but it is undergoing maintainence, all the same :)10:11
zeq1I'll put the debs up10:11
zeq1although, shouldn't we have a dependency flag like for the thumb errata?10:12
freemangordonfor [armel] only10:12
freemangordonzeq1: isn't it better to ARM buil fit10:13
freemangordon*build it10:13
freemangordonnot thum10:13
freemangordonthat way it can be used outside thumb repo10:13
zeq1well for thumb repo thumb is better10:13
zeq1no reason I can't make a non-thumb version for cssu10:13
freemangordonwell, yeah, but then the version string should be libc-...-thumb010:13
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zeq1still needs to depend on sigmask syscalls10:14
freemangordonWTF? "Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result."10:14
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freemangordoni did git reset just before pull :(10:14
zeq1probably the null change10:15
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freemangordonbut how im i supposed to pull ?!?10:17
zeq1you could locally resolve the conflict10:20
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freemangordonbut I don't want to do that. anyway I rm -rf the directory, will clone from scratch10:20
zeq1the only other option would be to reclone,10:21
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zeq1I'm building cssu kernel with new syscalls10:22
zeq1my testing has been with kp10:22
freemangordondo you have .diff ?10:23
freemangordonso I can push it on gitorious10:23
zeq1yes, shall I put it up10:23
freemangordonon your server? yes10:23
zeq1I used quilt to apply it so you shouldn't have a problem with it10:23
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zeq1in maemo/sigmask10:25
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zeq1freemangordon: ^10:25
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freemangordonzeq1: ok10:27
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zeq1shall I put up my glibc diffs too?10:31
freemangordonzeq1: hmm aren't they in the source package?10:32
zeq1they would be if I built one :)10:33
zeq1just put up the debs including source pkg then?10:33
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freemangordondpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -us -uc10:34
freemangordonand put the original source package in the ../ dir, so it will make diff.tar.gz package10:35
freemangordonzeq1: ^^^10:35
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freemangordonfuck, clonning fennec takes ages10:36
zeq1ok will do10:36
freemangordonzeq: you should rename the original source package to something like [libc].orig.tar.gz10:37
freemangordons/should/should also/10:37
infobotfreemangordon meant: zeq: you should also rename the original source package to something like [libc].orig.tar.gz10:37
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zeq1freemangordon: something to be aware of (very important)10:47
zeq1you need to have the linux headers installed before building glibc10:48
zeq1otherwise it doesn't obviously fail10:48
zeq1so I need to put in that feature dependency10:49
zeq1otherwise you end up with a libc completely lacking pselect()!10:50
freemangordonzeq1: hehe10:50
zeq1not good! :)10:51
DocScrutinizer05well, at least the symptoms will be quite unique then10:51
freemangordonzeq1: I will add kernel-feature-libc-pselect.10:51
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freemangordonPali: ^^^ how that sounds?10:51
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DocScrutinizer05umm, who'd doing pselect now?10:52
zeq1probably better to make it sigmask or something10:52
DocScrutinizer05libc, or kernel? or none of both?10:52
zeq1DocScrutinizer: it's much faster10:53
DocScrutinizer05so it shouldn't be named kernel-feature-libc-pselect10:53
zeq1and doesn't hang anymore :)10:53
Palibut this is for package *linux*-kernel-power-headers10:53
freemangordonPali: ok10:54
freemangordonzeq1: what sigset? would you elaborate10:54
freemangordonsigmask even10:54
zeq1see the patch name10:54
DocScrutinizer05yeah, patch name is rather common best practice for feature name10:55
zeq1it's not just pselect(), but 3 syscalls related to the same thing10:55
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zeq1I wonder how it's going to affect power consumption?10:56
DocScrutinizer05how would it?10:56
zeq1dbus is a heavy user of pselect()10:57
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zeq1and the performance difference isn't slight10:57
DocScrutinizer05ooh, there's a performance improvement from patched pselect() ?10:57
DocScrutinizer05WTF? what did they do in "old" lib?10:58
DocScrutinizer05busy loop waiting for signals? or what10:58
zeq1I think so10:59
zeq1also several syscalls to emulate 110:59
zeq1that doesn't help10:59
zeq1lots of trips to and from kernel10:59
DocScrutinizer05still pselect() usually results in process going sleep11:00
DocScrutinizer05so yes, in a special testbed there might be improvements in CPU load11:01
DocScrutinizer05or turnaround time of a tight loop11:01
zeq1it can't hurt11:01
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: so, what now, community kernel?11:09
DocScrutinizer05for fixing pselect() ?11:09
freemangordonand one more bug11:09
freemangordonBT related11:09
DocScrutinizer05if you could demonstrate the stock kernel has bug, then probably yes11:09
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no need, it is CVE11:10
DocScrutinizer05demonstrate as in "run the test code that summons the erratic behaviour"11:10
freemangordonDit is CVE, there is no need me to demonstrate it11:10
Paliping merlin199111:11
DocScrutinizer05you asked for my notion. well that's it11:11
DocScrutinizer05I'd expect you feeling happy about an answer way less negative than you probably expected11:12
freemangordonwell, TBH I didn't expect "prove that CVE is CVE".
povbot_Bug 12558: kernel/bluetooth: CVE-2010-1084: potential bad memory access with sysfs files11:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^11:15
freemangordonotherwise I perfectly know who the negatron man is :P11:16
DocScrutinizer05I was commenting on the pselect() stuff11:16
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I think zeq already demonstrate it11:16
freemangordonzeq1: ^^^ ?11:17
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: we only need *one* valid rationale for cssu-kernel ;-D11:17
zeq1to be entirely fair, I haven't run a stock kernel for years11:18
kerioyay stock kernel upgrade!11:18
zeq1to be entirely fair, I haven't run a stock kernel for years11:18
kerioyay stock kernel upgrade!11:18
zeq1that said this is a well known problem in glibc11:18
freemangordonzeq1: well, now you have thumb you can't run it11:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you are on stock, aren't you?11:18
keriofreemangordon: by the way, i vote for it to be called "kernel"11:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: could you run the binary that hangs with buggy libc then11:19
keriobecause it's the kernel11:19
kerioand stuff11:19
DocScrutinizer05it doesn't hang11:19
DocScrutinizer05or rather, shouldn't11:20
zeq1DocScrutinizer: I got it to hang11:20
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and that's exactly what? a proof for nuttin11:20
zeq1it seemed to hang more quickly when the system was busy11:20
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what11:21
freemangordonit is a proof that fremantle is affected by this11:21
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no11:22
freemangordonOr I am totally unable to parse your statements11:22
zeq1it's an unavoidable problem with trying to emulate pselect in userspace11:22
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teotwakiAnd you submit the patch + testscases to them12:21
teotwakior you don't test it at all12:21
teotwakicuz from a truthiness point of view, it's all the same.12:21
zeq1freemangordon: I've put the libc on the server.12:21
freemangordonzeq1: ok12:21
teotwakithere's no more guarantee from having me, doc, or joeblogs test it.12:21
DocScrutinizer05how the f*ck hard can it be to post some proper report to ML, like "this is the problem: dadadada.... \n this is the patch: c-code_c-code.... \n these is the test code and are the test results showing there's a problem (see line 56) and that we fix it (see line 124)"12:21
teotwakiSubmit it to the mailing lists, ask for feedback, give it 1-2 weeks time12:22
freemangordonteotwaki: that is not how CSSU development works12:22
zeq1the proper test is just to test the new syscalls12:22
ArkanoiD_damn. Nokia failed the idea of merged contacts for unified communications miserably :-( and it is even worse in Harmattan and seems to actually have nothing with sync :-((12:22
zeq1make sure they work to spec12:22
kerioArkanoiD_: works fine in fremantle, i think12:23
ArkanoiD_kerio, never worked for me, some contacts occasionally "exploded" all the way12:23
teotwakiThis is how I analyse and report bugs:
kerioArkanoiD_: ouch12:24
ArkanoiD_i thought it is google sync to blame but actually it is something else12:24
teotwakiAnyone on the list can double check what I said, so when I come with a patch/merge request, there'll be a trace.12:24
DocScrutinizer05ooh, and "that is how the patch works: explain_explain, and that's why the test works: more_explain"12:24
ArkanoiD_because on n950 i disabled google sync completely and it did not get any better12:24
keriofreemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check them and push them12:24
kerios/them/the patch/12:25
infobotkerio meant: freemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check the patch and push them12:25
freemangordonteotwaki: are you aware I am in CSSU team? Not kidding, asking seriouly.12:25
keriofreemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check them and push the patch12:25
teotwakifreemangordon: yeah, I do, but fuck me, I couldn't tell by your attitude.12:25
keriofreemangordon: having a trace is still good12:25
teotwakifreemangordon: I'm guessing you didn't understand my rant of "go or nogo"?12:26
freemangordonteotwaki: well, blame my english.12:26
teotwakifreemangordon: what I meant was, you and pali or pati or whatever are basically the people who would approve/refuse this if it came to you from someone else, right?12:26
teotwakifreemangordon: so, now you're trying to fix something, but asking someone else for approval of your work?12:27
teotwakiSo, either you shouldn't be approving other people's work in the first place12:27
teotwakior, you can simply submit it publicly, and approve it publicly.12:27
teotwakiWhich either validates the whole process, or invalidates the whole infrastructure.12:27
freemangordonBut I want doc on my side, as he is a part of CSSU for long time now, even not officialy12:28
teotwakiExactly, the keyword being "not officially", so it doesn't change anything to the whole political issue12:28
teotwakifreemangordon: had you just sent an email to the mailing list explaining the issue, documenting your patch, and asking for review, I'm sure Doc would've been happy to test it12:29
DocScrutinizer05indeed, we need a public statement why we need a new kernel in CSSU, with proper evaluation and rationale12:29
teotwakibut going to him directly, and asking "yo bru, you've got a stock kernel right? Can you execute this binary for me?"12:29
teotwakithat's just plain stupid12:29
teotwakiAnd I'm not even talking about the security issue12:30
teotwakiJust from a "due process" point of view12:30
teotwakifreemangordon: do you get our position now?12:30
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freemangordonasking someone from CSSU team (even not officialy) to make a test for me is not stupid from my POV. Otherwise yes, I think I got it.12:31
DocScrutinizer05a) I'd like to see at least a pastebin of "it hangs..."  and b) we need to do this public, my "approval" in the end is worth nuttin12:31
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DocScrutinizer05and c) yes I think the rationale is basically correct, so that's my approval already12:32
zeq1teotwaki: the disagreement is technical over whether it's been proven that the glibc pselect() is racy.  Doc has a quite reasonable objection to my testing since it was not conclusive proof.  It did definitely show the pselect() syscall is working however.12:32
DocScrutinizer05since you pointed me to comment #612:32
freemangordonteotwaki: but in the end it seems it is not the correct channel to discuss CSSU issues, my apologies12:33
teotwakizeq1 & freemangordon: If you want to get anywhere, fire up a shared text editor, get on some form of VoIP, and draft an email that explains the issues, and offer some proposals12:33
zeq1On the other hand I'm not sure why I need to prove it when it's very well known defect, even making the quoted except fromw wikipedia.12:34
zeq1I'm now on #maemo-ssu if that a more appropriate channel.12:35
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DocScrutinizer51zeq: you for example need to prove that stock kernel not already has a similar patch (or other means to not be affected by the issue. E.G. by one of numerous ARM idiosyncrasies)12:43
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infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer5115:05
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kerioi installed a screen protector but i took too much time and now there's dust permanently on my screen :(15:22
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kerioit's only noticeable in direct light or when there are white areas on the screen, but it's still annoying15:23
kerioand it was only one, so i can't try again either15:23
kerioi could just not use it i suppose15:25
keriobut it would piss off my father15:25
keriois there any way to clean the screen side of a screen protector?15:26
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vi__zeq: It is libgcc4.7.2 right?15:44
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RiDkerio piss of your father?15:53
RiDwhy is that? I never used a screen protector. Sure, got some scratches because of that, but they're only noticeable under direct sun light15:54
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kerioRiD: because he doesn't approve of wasting money15:54
keriorightfully so15:54
keriobut nevermind, cleaned it15:55
kerionow it's perfect ^_____^15:55
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kerio(for the record: clean with soap, put in alcohol, remove, shake off until only few drops remain, and put it on)15:55
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vi__Did you get your otterbox yet?16:02
vi__What screen protector did you get?16:03
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keriovi__: the otterbox should arrive tomorrow16:10
kerioi got an atfolix protector16:11
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: ping16:13
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keriowho's the repos maintainer?16:19
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ZogG_laptopkerio: X-Fade why?16:23
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vi__zeq: ping16:42
keriohmm, backupmenu only handles a uSD when it's vfat on /dev/mmcblk1p1 apparently16:43
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zeq1vi__: pong17:20
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vi__hey, you seen the forum?17:30
vi__DocScrutinizer: ping17:30
vi__doc|home: ping17:30
vi__geeze, which one is real?17:30
vi__zeq: You saw TMO?17:30
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keriovi__: regarding what?17:33
vi__kerio: we have raised enough monies to buy zeq an N900 for development purposes.17:33
vi__In less than an hour.17:34
keriodamn, now i feel bad for not donating anything17:34
keriooh well17:34
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vi__kerio: and so you should.17:34
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kerioPali: i keep loving you more and more ^_^17:36
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keriovi__: fun fact: i even have a spare n900 i don't use because the usb port is broken17:42
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jonwilI would have donated if I wasnt flat broke17:48
vi__jonwil: thats ok jon.  Your contributions of lines of code are worth way more than 20 euro.17:51
vi__kerio: Then send it to me.17:51
keriovi__: hell naw17:51
vi__fine, be like that.17:51
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jonwilactually, I think my reverse engineering is by far the biggest contribution to the community17:52
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freemangordonvi__: great news17:55
freemangordonvi__: which thread?17:57
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teotwakidon't you fucken hate it when you post a reply to a mailing list, then a follow-up the next day to provide a really thorough answer, just to get a reply "Hey, cool."18:11
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rcg-workteotwaki: hey cool18:24
teotwakiI'm so tempted to ban you right now.18:24
rcg-workscnr :)18:26
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jonwildamn I have been spending too much money lately :(18:35
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jonwilbut its on things I need so I have to spend it18:35
vi__freemangordon: [call to arms!]18:37
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freemangordonvi__: thanks18:37
vi__freemangordon: if all the pledges come through, we have enough to buy one of a guy on the forum.18:37
vi__He lives in the same city as me.18:37
vi__So I can go see it, pay with cash if it is good.18:37
vi__Sodler down the USB and ship that mutha off to zeqland.18:38
freemangordongreat even18:40
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vi__I just need DocScrutinizer to NOT buy one for 150 euros like he siad he might.18:42
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DocScrutinizer51then I'll not have to cry when I have to send out the baby, I can keep it after I find any :-)19:55
DocScrutinizer51anybody educate vi that IRC is no drive_by medium?19:57
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infobot:), DocScrutinizer5119:58
DocScrutinizer51at least ONE is listening and online19:58
DocScrutinizer51~seen timeless19:59
infobottimeless is currently on #maemo, last said: 'could someone please tell me what "inedi.ntcn" is in that file? :)'.19:59
DocScrutinizer51timeless: still with RIM?20:00
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Woody14619Estel_, I read your constant whine about infobot, but you conveniently left out how YOU insulted community memebers by setting a negative factoid. Ironic in a way since your first spat here on IRC was over a negative factoid set by someone else.  Yet another misrepresentation of Council... That said, your exit from Council has patched a lot of this, so I'm done talking about it.  Just saddens me that I have to continue cleaning up you20:09
Woody14619r messes even after you ran for the hills.20:09
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: ping20:14
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vi__brb, sprints.20:19
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DocScrutinizer51vi__: pong20:30
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DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: c'mon :-D meanwhile *everybody* has made his notion20:32
Woody14619?? :) Made his notion?  Don't follow you.20:32
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: or is there any tmo rant ongoing which I haven't noticed?20:33
DocScrutinizer51sorry for my french. I meant everybody knows estel and how to read his posts and rants20:33
DocScrutinizer51::: not at all20:33
Woody14619No, I'm saying I find irony that he was all up at arms over the ~tmo factoing here being "insulting to the community", but then creates his own insulting factoid and get pissy when someone locks it to prevent him from changing it after he regrets it.20:34
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DocScrutinizer51I just improved my ignore/spamfilter. Got a better more finegrained  dynamic version in wetware20:34
Woody14619Lol... I tend to make my ignore filters at my "caring" level.  Ignoring them electronicly just means you don't see what they're up to, not that they're not up to anything.20:36
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: after all that's been exactly my plan20:36
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: :nod:20:36
Woody14619What's the old saying?  "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?"  Better to know what they're up to than to ignore them.20:36
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: my enemy? ohwell, too much honor I'd spend by that20:37
Woody14619no, not my enemy, though I can't say if the inverse it true.  Reguardless, someone I'd rather track than be supprised by later. ;)20:39
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DocScrutinizer51sure thing - double true when you got shanghai'd for chanop20:41
teotwaki__if you have "enemies" in the same open source community, you've got other things coming than "whatever they're planning".20:41
Woody14619agreed teotwaki__, but that doesnt' stop some people from making them...20:42
teotwaki__Woody14619: what you didn't know... is that secretly...20:42
* Woody14619 nods to Doc20:42
teotwaki__I AM20:42
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Woody14619Nor do I care. :)20:42
Woody14619lol ;)20:42
teotwaki__where's that crazy fuck gone?20:43
DocScrutinizer51either died or got other interests now20:43
teotwaki__I defo hope the latter20:43
DocScrutinizer51me too20:43
teotwaki__talking about bygones, I wonder how qwerty's doing20:44
DocScrutinizer51he wasn't that bad20:44
teotwaki__I should shoot him another email one of these days, see what he's up to.20:44
DocScrutinizer51greetings from me20:44
teotwaki__will do20:44
teotwaki__by the way20:45
teotwaki__can you imagine that two years ago20:45
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teotwaki__there were some 200 more people in here?20:45
DocScrutinizer51I *know*20:45
teotwaki__Heck, 3 years ago, 3 months from now, there were 400 more people in here.20:45
DocScrutinizer51even  250 more at times20:45
teotwaki__(amsterdam summit, n900 distribution)20:46
DocScrutinizer51that's been slightly before my time20:46
teotwaki__you weren't here back then?20:46
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DocScrutinizer51but we're stable at 272 +- a few20:47
teotwaki__fuck me20:47
DocScrutinizer51(back then) nope20:47
teotwaki__I've been idling in this channel for nearly 6 years20:47
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teotwaki__DocScrutinizer51: seriously? I always thought you were here before me.20:48
teotwaki__Oh well20:48
DocScrutinizer51I lived rather autistic wrt maemo community with my N81020:48
teotwaki__I need to run off quickly20:48
teotwaki__won't be back tonight though, people coming over for dinner20:48
Woody14619Oh... and since even a stopped clock is right twice a day...20:49
infobothmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or
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Woody14619Oh good.. that got fixed. :)20:49
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Woody14619Must have missed that in the scroll back. :)20:49
teotwaki__sorry, just wanted to post this real quick20:49
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: hehe20:49
teotwaki__It's mah project :)20:50
teotwaki__Just a placeholder, but it's served by the actual project already :)20:50
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teotwaki__that page is rendered by two lines of code :)20:51
teotwaki__auto & vl = this.layout<Vertical>();20:52
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teotwaki__vl.addChild<Header, 3>().text("firestarter");20:53
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teotwaki__(not quite true, there's a bit more manual styling, but you get the idea)20:53
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vi__Woody14619: hey!21:02
vi__DocScrutinizer51: we found an n900.  I hope you did not acquire one yet...21:02
Woody14619Was it hiding under you bed? :)21:02
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vi__within an hour of starting the donations drive we had 110 euros in pledges to buy an n900 for zeq.  A guy from my city (gregoranderson on tmo) has one for sale.21:04
vi__TMO has some really cool people on it.21:05
befordlike me21:05
vi__you are a cool person?21:06
vi__Woody14619: also, what is this offensive factoid?21:07
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Woody14619Doc took care of them already... They were the ones around h-e-n that Estel made a while back apparently...21:08
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TofeHello !21:08
infobotfrom memory, hen is hostmode-easy-now, or
infobot[hen] hostmode-easy-now, or
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, tmo! is trolls, morons and ogres.21:09
Woody14619Better than it was two days ago.21:09
TofeI'm wondering: when in a hildon-desktop plugin, where do all those "g_printf" I'm trying to output ? I don't see them even in the console in my scratchbox... Are they supposed to show up there ? Is there a log file ?21:10
Tofe(worth trying...)21:11
DocScrutinizer05vi__: [2012-07-31 18:55:52] <DocScrutinizer51> then I'll not have to cry when I have to send out the baby, I can keep it after I find any :-)21:17
DocScrutinizer05Tofe: I'd guess the go to stdout of H-D21:21
DocScrutinizer05whatever that might be21:21
DocScrutinizer05probably same as stdout of dsme21:21
DocScrutinizer05and that one probably has no stdout21:21
Tofewell, I do see other outputs (trackerd, for instance), but not mine21:21
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Tofemaybe my compilation options are to be blamed, I quite don't know21:22
vi__DocScrutinizer05: wtf does that mean?21:22
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* vi__ tsssshhk21:37
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DocScrutinizer51vi__: does what mean?21:48
DocScrutinizer51my answer to your ping, given when you weren't in?21:49
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DocScrutinizer51oohfsck! 20:50 3652 22   22   -192 249  249  249  65535 7821:51
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ShadowJK78 minutes? :)22:24
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Estel_Woody14619, honestly, instead of Your constant conspiracy theories and seeking enemies, I would like to hear more about Council's work on things that seems stalled for 3 weeks already, you're chair, after all22:29
Estel_Other things are in fact too funny to even comment on them22:30
Estel_freemangordon, can I nominate You for Council?:P you got awesome patioence. I've went through Your discussion with DocScrutinizer, and honestly, I'm amazed by ammount of time You spenmd on persuading people that are like south park's "We won't listen"22:30
Estel_It seems that You have much bigger "soft skills" (tm) than You think You have22:31
vi__Estel_: chill the fuck out.  Have you manaed ED on n950 yet?22:31
Estel_I, for one, would already stop discussing with someone who isn't CSSu mmaintainer, but just lieks to sound like one ;) That';s why I'm not in Council, probably.22:32
Estel_vi__, sure, qole managed it ages ago22:32
Estel_I'm fighting one buggy blocker thing that makes Ed unusable on N95022:32
Estel_bug bigger than anything else22:32
Estel_biggest design flaw in N950/N922:32
Estel_capacitive screen ;P22:32
Estel_noope, aegis is noob compared to screen that can't detec anything smaller than 10mm in diameter22:32
vi__cap stylus?t22:33
Estel_I'm constructing capacitive stylus with 1mm precision, despite need for10mm touch surface., blah!22:33
Estel_normal cap styluses are worse than clicking with fingers22:33
Estel_precise ones cost 1/3 price of N922:33
Estel_I'm doing one for 1$ ;)22:33
Estel_actually for free,  using replacement stylus for N900 and anti-ESD foil from Rpi package22:34
Estel_cutting a irregular shape out of foil, that makes detected touch zone *out* of place covered by "stylus"22:34
Estel_something like "virtual crosshair"22:34
Estel_You know where it will click22:34
Estel_but You see this point22:34
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Estel_= You can draw line and expect where it will end ;p22:35
Estel_will post tutorial after finishing, i must just think about way to make this foil less elastic22:35
Estel_glue something to it22:35
vi__oh for a multitouch resistive screen.22:35
Estel_even resistive witohut multitouch, I have m-touch in ass22:35
Estel_sur,e it helps in games22:35
Estel_but honestly, I take resistive screen with pressure sensitivity, over it, any day22:36
ds3captouch is F'ed if you want to really do stuff22:36
Estel_but, you know, from my experiments, it is possible to make stylus which will, at least, make possibole to hit small x buttoin in easy debian reliably22:36
Estel_otherwise it's kinda unusable22:36
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Estel_until you xbindkeys it via keyboard shortcuts to death (and still, you can't expect to prepare every possible shortcut that may be needed)22:36
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vi__so you have installed ED?22:37
Estel_as per qole's instructions. BTW, qwazix also did it22:37
Estel_there is threa don TMO, somewhere about ed in harm22:37
Estel_still, I want to use wheezy there ;P22:37
Estel_actually, I'm focused in upgrtading N90 0version to wheezy, then, i'll use same image on N922:38
Estel_n oidea about pulseaudio problems, though, and such things22:38
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Estel_vi__, have You read backscroll as requested by freemangordon, about community donated n900 for zeq?22:39
ds3given how cash strapped N is... wonder if we can get enough donations to get N to make one more N900 run22:40
vi__Estel_: what about it?22:40
Estel_vi__, basically, zeq needs development device22:41
Estel_his first impresiov was - which I'm proud to hear, and little ashamed :) about buying device from my "n900" service ;)22:41
Estel_as a way of donation, I would sell it under costs22:41
Estel_vbut, freemangordon got even better idea22:41
vi__Estel_: I have already started the fundraiser.22:41
Estel_he think if You could mimic what was done with DavyP22:41
vi__Estel_: we received 110 euros of pledges within the hour.22:42
Estel_awesome and nice to hear :)22:42
Estel_where is thread/annoucement about it?22:42
vi__Estel_: I found a guy in my city who wants to sell an n900.22:42
Estel_great, I was about to aks if You're able to find bad condition supercheap N90022:42
vi__I just have to wait for the pledges to be fulfilled, I buy it, solder down usb. shippit to zeq.22:43
Estel_nice :) how expensice the device is?22:43
vi__ 100 euro.22:43
vi__second hand.22:43
Estel_great. Haven't You said, that You have 110 already?22:43
Estel_it's much cheaper that I would be able to buy22:44
Estel_so i'm glad You did it <ok>22:44
vi__Estel_: we have 110 promised, just have to wait fot them to pay up.22:44
Estel_(ok as in "thumb up")22:44
Estel_nice. but, again, where the f is donation thread? Or it's closed already?22:45
vi__Estel_: just a case of the right place at the right time.22:45
vi__Estel_: buried!22:45
vi__Estel_: it was called [call to arms!]22:46
* Estel_ nods22:46
Estel_You know that you've basically organized what Council would be supposed to organize? Yet, you didn't wanted to candidate for Council, when I've asked You to :)22:47
Estel_it's quite a pity, that people who have skills/moral/merit to become councilors doesn't want to (you, freemangordon, would find some other names to...) and instead, people that *want* become councilors, end up candidating and being elected22:48
Estel_paradox of human nature, eh?22:49
vi__Estel_: you need to curb talking that shit estel.  it just pisses people off.22:50
Estel_vi, who's saying that? i always though you're the one who says things when needed to be said, not carring much about "like/dislike"22:50
Estel_anyway, I think that last thought is quite calm and constructive22:51
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befordits not, its called trolling22:51
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Estel_you know what we ended with, and it could be even worse (arie also candidated :P ). We have freemangordon, You, Pali, and other people that would be absolutely perfect candidates for Council re skills, bot soft and hard, both coding and social :)22:51
* Sicelo agrees with vi, beford. 22:52
Estel_beford, what isn't called trolling these days, eh?22:52
Estel_sharing thoughts in civil way? *shrugs*22:52
Estel_you know that irc have nice little button with "X" label, if You preffer places, where people think only like you think?22:52
Estel_so now, please GTFO, when i'mtrying to convince someone to candidate for Council during next election, due to meritocratic things (like organising donation of devices for devs) :) beford, that's for You :*22:53
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Estel_it's also where You can kiss me, when You want to call something trolling, just becouse it's trending word. Fine?22:53
Estel_thanks for You time.22:54
befordshutup women, get on my horse22:54
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Estel_Sicelo, after this moment of understandable silence, You still agree with beford? Or are You going to find less childish "twin souls"? ;)23:00
befordstop trolling Estel_23:00
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befordyou attack me and espect me to be quiet?23:01
Estel_it's up to you, but I would feel a little ashamed, due to fact of agreeing with such msierable creature23:01
befordyou ask me to GTFO, and ask me to quit the channel23:01
befordyea, right.23:01
Estel_beford, Your words are your choose, If all you have to tell us is some childish, 12-years old like (at best) sexist... I don't know, "gag"?23:01
Estel_I udnerstand that immature doesnt-mean-anything lines of sexist comparisions are common in Your natural enviromnent ;) but we're on #maemo, ya know.23:02
befordsurprise muthefucka. this is the internet.23:02
Estel_well, internet got exact same ratio of miserable morons than real life, I suppose ;)23:03
befordjust stop attacking me. stfu. please.23:03
Estel_I've seen manyu different people here - some liking to argue jsut for the sake of it, some thinking that they're fighting for better good,. but You first one to land on my IRc ignore liost, due to being completely miserable creature, not worth my time. Congratulations.23:03
Estel_and take Your time, aftyer all, You need to have at least one place where You can talk about Your view on sex without being laughed off, yep?23:04
Estel_we're not *so* cruel.23:04
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vi__Estel_: have you ever tripped on hallucinogenic mushrooms?23:09
Estel_vi__, mushrooms are for kids, Datura is a way to go!23:11
Estel_But after Datura I wouldn't see you as candidate for councilor - you would be candidate for Pope in my eyes!23:12
vi__Estel_: I know what datura is.  I have grown it, I have consumed it.  The original question still stands.23:12
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Estel_consumed? I've actually added it to tea (no joke)23:13
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Estel_muchsroms, hm, let me think23:13
Estel_I think no.23:13
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sobczykhi, anyone here managed to run power kernel along nemo23:13
Estel_have You tried Juares? It's nice addition for Sunday chicken date23:13
Estel_sobczyk, yea, many people, see TMO23:14
vi__You should try them.  They will let you see the world in a whole new light!23:14
Estel_s/sea/search on/23:14
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Estel_pink light spectrum instead of white?23:14
Estel_better answer if You can be convinced to candidate for Council, as this questions stays, too23:14
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mroverJust a quick question. Can anyone use routing in maemo-mapper or CloudGPS?23:15
keriocloudgps has a weird bug for me, the "search" text box displays text rotated by π/223:16
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vi__mrover: AFAIK maemo-mapper is abandoned.23:17 seems to be down. Just wanted to know if anybody is experiencing same problem23:17
Estel_mrover, try modrana or Marble23:18
Estel_Modrana seems like a way to go for You23:18
vi__kerio: dwarz said it would be fixed in the next version.  That was a while ago.23:18
vi__I think he has moved on :/23:18
Estel_vi__, question about You as candidate for Council still stand23:18
vi__modrana is the only activly maintained map application left.23:19
mroverWell, thank you for answers. Cheers!23:19
keriowhat about maep?23:19
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vi__Estel_: No chance.  I neither have the time nor the patience.23:19
vi__Besides, I rather like the current councillers.23:20
Estel_Understood, but it's a pity, as being 8no* councilor You do councils tasks many times23:20
Estel_like explaining things, maintaining communication, or donating23:20
Estel_so You proven already, that you have both time and patience :P23:20
Estel_[rant]It's quite tragic, that people who *want8 to become councilors candidate and get there, instead of people that *should* become. It never leads to good things[/rant]23:21
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