| vi__ | also how does the new usb hostmode work? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zeq | vi__: it would be really handy, I'm when I break things I'm without a primary device | 00:00 |
| zeq | it would also let me test things out more easily | 00:01 |
| zeq | like right now I'm without any translations from working on libc6, and the lables are rather cryptic! | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: there has to be a whole bunch of secret phantom files. At very least for factory-reset | 00:03 |
| vi__ | well, we could start a donations drive on TMO. | 00:03 |
| vi__ | It worked for davyp. | 00:03 |
| vi__ | However the device he go was a real shitter. | 00:03 |
| vi__ | It worked, but it was quite fucked. | 00:03 |
| vi__ | zeq would you need one with a USB port? | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | LOL | 00:04 |
| vi__ | although davyp was a lot more 'visible' on the forum. | 00:04 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: go for dinner already! | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm already eating :-P | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rx-51 you know ;-) | 00:05 |
| zeq | vi__: usb port is rather handy for flashing, and charging if nothing else... | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I probably can get used N900 in rather good condition for less than 150 | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | or find them yourself on ebay | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | WITHworking usb | 00:08 |
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| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: I bought my last N900 on ebay,, supposedly new, but not really. I was really worried about the USB port (always am) | 00:11 |
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| zeq | I've had two devices fail that way :( | 00:11 |
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| AliasXZ | u strengthened it with solder etc? not done mine yet, seems ok... | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, some precausions will stop that problem | 00:12 |
| zeq | Nokia stole the second one, they insisted on replacing it with an E7, which gf subsequently got stolen within a couple of weeks! | 00:12 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: euro? | 00:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | actually each monkey can solder down a working USB | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: yep | 00:13 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: can you solder down the USB? | 00:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 00:13 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: do you have a paypal account? | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 00:13 |
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| vi__ | so if we raised 150 euro on TMO, you could get zeq a second n900? | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | probably | 00:14 |
| vi__ | probably or can? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | make that 130, 20 are already in from me | 00:15 |
| vi__ | I see your 20 and match it. | 00:15 |
| zeq | :) | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: I forgot my crystal ball at home | 00:16 |
| zeq | thanks guys! | 00:16 |
| vi__ | zeq: dont count your cows till your chickens come home yet. | 00:16 |
| zeq | I appreciate the support :) | 00:16 |
| vi__ | zeq: have you and FMG 'announced' fennec yet? | 00:17 |
| zeq | FMG put it in the thumb repo, but we're not happy to announce it until we've resolved some current breakage in mozilla-central | 00:18 |
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| vi__ | am I allowed to talk about it? | 00:19 |
| zeq | sure | 00:19 |
| zeq | but with warnings | 00:19 |
| zeq | it's not ready yet | 00:19 |
| vi__ | IE tomorrow when I make a post and I am listing why you NEED a device can I mention you and FMG are brewing up fennec. | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: as soon as I find a good used one For reasonable pricemI can get it | 00:19 |
| zeq | of course :) | 00:19 |
| vi__ | it is alpha etc, not really released. | 00:20 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: good. | 00:20 |
| vi__ | A lot of people want fennec. | 00:20 |
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| vi__ | With Qwazix saying "it is better than fennec on dualcore 1.5MHz androids with 1GB RAM. | 00:21 |
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| vi__ | hype shall be made. | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I don't care too much, but I want zeq in and activ | 00:21 |
| zeq | vi__: it has potential to work well, but we need to get the memory consumption down | 00:22 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: I cocour, however to have a sucessful donation drive you have to ride a wave of hype. | 00:22 |
| vi__ | ^concour. | 00:22 |
| zeq | ok :) | 00:22 |
| vi__ | zeq: And that is why it is still alpha and you need another one. | 00:22 |
| vi__ | ! | 00:22 |
| vi__ | I moved to a new house. I live on the bottom floor away from the street looking into the garden through big windows. There are 2 foxes who play here every night. | 00:23 |
| vi__ | and a badger too. | 00:23 |
| vi__ | ... | 00:24 |
| zeq | nice :) | 00:24 |
| vi__ | that is at night. | 00:24 |
| vi__ | during the day there are 2 angry squirrels. | 00:24 |
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| vi__ | not only do they fight at each other... | 00:25 |
| vi__ | they activley plot one anothers demise. | 00:25 |
| zeq | We get foxes in our garden | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thatms love | 00:25 |
| zeq | plenty of squirrels too! | 00:25 |
| kerio | zeq: what's wrong with the current fennec, apart from the fact that's horrendously slow? | 00:25 |
| kerio | also, why does linux use a swap partition with lower priority than another one? | 00:26 |
| kerio | :s | 00:26 |
| kerio | *with a | 00:26 |
| vi__ | kerio: you think it is slow now? | 00:26 |
| zeq | current build (not in repo) has broken widget layout is is pretty much unusable | 00:26 |
| zeq | the version in the repo has a really bad memory leak | 00:26 |
| kerio | vi__: well, slower than microb | 00:26 |
| vi__ | kerio: that is an unfair comparison. Microb is loaded in the background ALL the time. | 00:27 |
| zeq | It's been at least as fast a microb, in the last few weeks, but there's always something else not working. | 00:27 |
| vi__ | where do you think your ram goes? | 00:27 |
| kerio | it feeds a family of ponies! | 00:27 |
| zeq | we also need to change the keyboard handling to support the hildon input menthod properly | 00:27 |
| zeq | and I still need to get the fullscreen toggle working | 00:28 |
| kerio | zeq: oh, that's why fn d doesn't give me the same as fn+d? | 00:28 |
| zeq | yes | 00:28 |
| vi__ | fullscreen? | 00:28 |
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| zeq | so you can see the hildon status bar | 00:29 |
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| zeq | toggle like in microb | 00:29 |
| kerio | by the way, having an actual fullscreen toggle is really weird | 00:29 |
| kerio | (as in, some way to run wmctrl -b toggle,fullscreen) | 00:29 |
| kerio | the toolbars get mixed up all the time | 00:30 |
| vi__ | kerio: well it is at best a hack. | 00:30 |
| kerio | why? | 00:30 |
| vi__ | hildon was not designed to be run in that way. | 00:30 |
| kerio | well hildon was designed in the wrong way, isn't it | 00:30 |
| kerio | *wasn't | 00:30 |
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| vi__ | kerio: no, you were. | 00:31 |
| kerio | aisleriot handles it well | 00:31 |
| kerio | fuck yeah gnome | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio fucks gnomes? | 00:32 |
| vi__ | ~tmo! is trolls, morons and ogres. | 00:32 |
| infobot | vi__: okay | 00:32 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: yes. | 00:32 |
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| vi__ | kerio: http://www.catonmat.net/blog/top-ten-one-liners-from-commandlinefu-explained/ | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | should i bother? | 00:34 |
| zeq | even using all the normal libc6 build options, just with some gcc47 build fixes it still isn't working. I'm going to try a libc build with the 4.2 compiler | 00:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | zeq WTF? | 00:34 |
| zeq | I'm trying to work out exactly what cause the locales to go wrong | 00:35 |
| kerio | vi__: huh? | 00:35 |
| vi__ | kerio: it is some cool shit. | 00:35 |
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| zeq | If I can get a build working, I can try one thing at a time | 00:35 |
| vi__ | but no forkbomb roullette. | 00:35 |
| kerio | hehe | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | zeq: ls -laR / >before | 00:36 |
| vi__ | zeq: take you logical approach elsewhere please. | 00:36 |
| vi__ | gtg bb | 00:36 |
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| zeq | first thing I'm going to do is get a baseline working device | 00:37 |
| zeq | installing stock libc6 | 00:37 |
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| zeq | ok. stock is working | 00:41 |
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| kerio | hm, swap on uSD + compcache makes things a little bit slower | 00:43 |
| kerio | at least, it feels that way | 00:44 |
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| Estel_ | damn, PayPal is a bitch | 01:07 |
| Estel_ | how I hate this service | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | one guy who bought old computer form me *accidentaly* clicked to open claim (wanted to open claim about other purchase), and immediately, bot me and he informed paypal about mistake and requested closing case | 01:08 |
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| Estel_ | I even, just to be on safe side, provided scans of delivery documents | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | and guess what, ScamPal decided today to close case... in favour of buyer! | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | =) | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | buyer immediately send me money back - it's good that he was honest one | 01:09 |
| kerio | what the fuck | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | but, the thing is, that PayPal got provision paid AGAIN, and also, converted my money from one currency to another, taking anothjer povision, to delete (-) net saldo | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | so, they' | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | have earned 4x provision, totally | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | just by being a bitch | 01:10 |
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| kerio | Estel_: how do i fit two batteries in an otterbox? | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | their custom center try to tell me, that it's ok for them to have such rule in agreement with customers, and of course they refuse to give it back | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | kerio, no idea, ki don't use otterbox. Be creative | 01:11 |
| RiD | Estel_ in the end they want your money | 01:11 |
| kerio | it's not even here yet | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | I contacted goverment's custom right service, #@$#@$/ Beware of PayPAl, it's becoming even more arrogant scam service than ever | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | we will see how their #$@#$ scam rules apply to Polish law | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | as they're offering their services here, under polish domain, not in @#%$#5 luxemburg | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | and they can put their #@$#@$@# luxemburg contact mail, they want me to sent "complains", in their scamish ass | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | btw funny fact - if buyer wouldn't send me money back, they could ask him to do so, but wouldn't force his money back to my account, or start legal action | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | their "forcibly money transfer" is only in favor of buyer, never the other way | 01:13 |
| kerio | paypal is great if you're a dishonest buyer and you want to screw the seller over | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | i'm officially going to bounce off every paypal payment, that won't be amrked as transfer to friends/relatives | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | kerio, exactly | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | It's pity that aliexpress showed scampal middle finger, and deleted payments via paypal | 01:14 |
| kerio | i just don't get what's wrong with wire transfers | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | I would buy half if Cchiense country, then request refund | 01:14 |
| kerio | they're *definetely* traced | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | I would like to see how PayPal arguments their "rules" to chinesee special forces ;) | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | kerio, international wire transfers are expensive | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | for sxmall-to-mdoerate sums, they're too expensive | 01:15 |
| kerio | and 4x commission from paypal is cheap? | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | for huge sums, like money for black alu project, of course i convince every donoro/pre-order one to do so | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | kerio, haha | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | buyer don't care, as it's me who paid it :< | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | but honestly, and unfortunatelyt, for such sums, even 4x commision from paypal is less expensive than wire transfer from US :( | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | I really hope for bitmoney stabilizing on current value | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | it's stable for more than year now | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | bitcoins, I mean | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | after initial speculation and 30 USd value dropping to 4 USd, it seems that 4-5 USd is real value for bitcoin | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | I'll glady tell PayPal to go and sodomize itself | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | with a stun baton | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | electric one | 01:17 |
| kerio | Estel_: hmm, the otterbox looks awfully tight | 01:17 |
| Estel_ | ScapPal, eBayshit, and every sub-company of this scamming family | 01:17 |
| Estel_ | kerio, just buy otterbox big enough to handle mugen-cover sized N900 | 01:18 |
| Estel_ | job done | 01:18 |
| kerio | it's not custom made | 01:18 |
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| kerio | by the way, how's the full aluminium cover going? | 01:19 |
| Estel_ | stable and slowly to the target :) | 01:19 |
| kerio | can you make one with three battery slots? | 01:19 |
| kerio | they should fit sideways, don't they | 01:19 |
| Estel_ | I'm starting vacation (2 weeks and little more) from day after tomorrow, though | 01:19 |
| kerio | hm, maybe not | 01:19 |
| Estel_ | kerio, no, 2x18650 slot is priority | 01:19 |
| Estel_ | and they don't fit sideways, unfortunately (bl-5j) | 01:19 |
| kerio | 18650? :o | 01:19 |
| Estel_ | yea, 2x 18650 for custom body replacement | 01:20 |
| kerio | wtf is a 18650 | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | for backcover only, no chances | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | google it ;) | 01:20 |
| kerio | is that mAhs? | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | nope | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | haha | 01:20 |
| kerio | :( | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | 18650 is standard cylyndrical most popualr in the world LiIon cell | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | best price | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | best availability | 01:20 |
| kerio | ew, cylindrical | 01:20 |
| Estel_ | will never disappear, it's used in notebooks batteries and flashlights | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | yea, but they have higher capacity density, even if You consider "wasted" space due to cylindrical | 01:21 |
| kerio | do they fit in the battery slot, in length? | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | phillips or panasonic (can't remember) made 3Ah one, lately, 3.8 mAh is also avaiulable | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | no, they don't | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | that's why You need custom slot | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | and that's why they will be available for custom body | 01:21 |
| kerio | yeah but it becomes insanely huge :( | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | as slot will be re-made :) | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | nope | 01:22 |
| kerio | oh, i see | 01:22 |
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| Estel_ | I'll get rid of standard battery slot | 01:22 |
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| Estel_ | that's why it's no chance for backcover only, as it would be extremely fat | 01:22 |
| Estel_ | 18650 have their dimensions in name | 01:22 |
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| Estel_ | 1,8 - diameter | 01:22 |
| Estel_ | 65 - lenth | 01:22 |
| Estel_ | 0 - ammount of problems with buying them ;) | 01:22 |
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| Estel_ | 18mm diameter, 65 mm length | 01:23 |
| kerio | how much space is there to reclaim, in the n900? | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | 2x is 6Ah easily, soon 6,8 Ah too | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | some, with creative planning | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | You can't cut off camera secondary board ;) | 01:23 |
| kerio | i both like and don't like the sound of that | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | well, 18650 are always first to have new awesome capacity, and are always cheaper to other types, comparing same capacity | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | no worries, 18650 variant of full body replacement will be optional | 01:24 |
| kerio | is there a way to fit two in the same space as a regular n900 with a regular back cover? | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | full body replacement with standard bl-5j is also going to be available | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | kerio, wtf? no, 18650 is only for mugen-cover sized one | 01:24 |
| kerio | i hope that a mugen-style xl backcover will also be available | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | for standard cover You get ONE battery, no matter what, and it's bl-5j | 01:24 |
| kerio | er, i meant one | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | of course | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | if You read thread, it's going to be available as aluminum mugen-style backcover for normal N900 body... | 01:25 |
| kerio | i see | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | flat backcover alu replacement with better kickstand (mugen too) for normal body | 01:25 |
| kerio | (with lens cover, i hope :) ) | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | and, full body replacement in 2 variants (for now) | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | including backcover | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | of course, with lens cover | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | but, backcover from ful lbody replacement *probably* won't be same as backcover for normal body | 01:25 |
| Estel_ | due to locking mechanism | 01:26 |
| kerio | hm | 01:26 |
| Estel_ | that is why full body is sold with backcover only, not separately | 01:26 |
| kerio | i see | 01:26 |
| Estel_ | I thjknk about two varianst of full body rep, one normal, with either flat or mugen-sized backcover... | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 18mm diameter? | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 650mm length? | 01:26 |
| Estel_ | and one extreme, for 18650, with mugen-sized backcover only (possibly, 2mm thicker) | 01:26 |
| Estel_ | (I mean, bigger in thickness) | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, haha, noi | 01:27 |
| * zeq is being called to bed | 01:27 | |
| Estel_ | 18 mm diameter | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | 65 lenght | 01:27 |
| zeq | night guys | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | 0 stands for whatever You want | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | 0 problems | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | night zeq! | 01:27 |
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| kerio | so... old-style body with flat back-cover, old-style body with xl backcover and crazy 18650 body with OMGHUEG backcover? | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1.8 dia sounded like in inch | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, why You see sausages everywhere?:P | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | in styluses, in batteries... | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | kerio, kinda yes | 01:27 |
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| Estel_ | + 2 types of backcovers only, sadly, not compatible with new bodies (but compatible wioth normal bodies) | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | sounds complicated, but it isn't ;) | 01:28 |
| kerio | Estel_: what about the screen part? | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, it's 18 mm, for sure | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | kerio, not touched | 01:28 |
| kerio | hm | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | whole screen module remains as-is, it's metallic anyway | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | including sloiding mechanism | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | too much hassle, nothing to gain | 01:28 |
| kerio | i wanted a transparent aluminium front cover! :D | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | aka glass?;) | 01:29 |
| kerio | no, transparent aluminium | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | projects for future, after ending those - same, but from exotic wood ;p | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | de luxe, completely unprofitable for usage, glamour model ;P | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | still kinda cool, wooden body | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | I'm also thinking about N950 and N9 (with slot for keyboard and sliding) bodies, but this is for distant future | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know, .45 is some 11mm | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | .38 is ~9mm | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | DocS, hm? | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | sure, but? | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1.8 probably is a light ship gun | 01:30 |
| kerio | n900-shaped gun! | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | hehe | 01:30 |
| kerio | with *two* bullets | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | shot inject via i2c | 01:31 |
| kerio | Estel_: will the xl backcovers also have the external power port? | 01:31 |
| kerio | (what kind of port is it? miniusb?) | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | this one is kinda problematic. Probably, I will settle with compromise proposed, to leave slot for any kind of socket one may want to put there | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | You know, tiight aluminum in one slot place | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | thin* | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | as putting external port for everyone isn't best idea | 01:32 |
| kerio | i don't like thin aluminium :( | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | due to lack of fuse, etc | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | thin = you can easily punch it off if You want, and insert port there, for charging battery directly like dr_frost_dk, or for mod to soolder to n900 mainboard +5V, or... | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | anyway, I'm not going to have motherboard of people's devices | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | how I'm suppose to make external port for charging via testpads | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd prefer a plastic patch with 2 gold pads and a magnetic iron behind it | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | everyone would need to solder it on own | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I also though about springs solution | 01:33 |
| kerio | Estel_: external charging port! | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, magnet >> springs | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | but it defeats space for dual-batteries or 18650's OTOH | 01:33 |
| kerio | well, can't your port also be used for charging? | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | what "my port"? | 01:34 |
| kerio | isn't it *your* guide on TMO? | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | no? | 01:34 |
| kerio | hm, maybe i'm mistaken | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | no one created 2nd usb port for N900 | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | alternate way connection is possible, but it's same port | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | - some safety mechanism | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | like fuse for 5V | 01:34 |
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| kerio | no, i meant dr_frost_dk's direct battery connection | 01:34 |
| kerio | (it was him) | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | or external ESd protection for USB (only chips internal one remain - it's rated 8,8 kV, so it's Ok, but still) | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | direct battery connection allow to charge only using dedicated LiIon charger | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | no way to Put it under 5V without boom | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | it charge to cells directly | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | passing by even cells safety things | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaaand you'll confuse hell outa bq27200 | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | BTw, people who want to use N900's testpads for charging, or direct battery charge, won't have problems to kick out thin aluminum in "fake" slot | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | and insert whatever they want there | 01:36 |
| kerio | he said he uses it to draw power and/or to charge it with an external charger | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, exactly | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | kerio, external = one as big as smal netbook | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | or, alternatively, one small, but not very intelligent | 01:36 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: battery indicators are guesswork anyway | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | kerio, no, they're not | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | bme is guesswork | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | bq27200 is very accurate in measurements | 01:37 |
| kerio | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=981077&postcount=448 omg i never saw this one | 01:37 |
| kerio | can't it be reset somehow? | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | I did zillions of comparissions between external charger-measurement one, and bq27200, and th latter is excellent | 01:37 |
| kerio | if you know you're doing weird stuff with the battery | 01:37 |
| kerio | will it be confused even if you *discharge* your battery? | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | kerio, sure, sure, but all direct charge solutions confuse bq27200 | 01:37 |
| Estel_ | no, unless You power something else with it | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | but, when You charge battery | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | it won't know you've charged it | 01:38 |
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| Estel_ | it will see increased voltage | 01:38 |
| kerio | i meant powering something else in addition to the phone | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | and wil lthink that Your battery have 32573645634753 capacity | 01:38 |
| kerio | haha | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | but it will refuse such data | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | so You will stay with de-calibrated capacity forever ;) | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | bq27200 doesn't accept too much of a change in % from one cycle to another | 01:39 |
| kerio | forever = until you remove the battery? | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | forever - until You calibrate it again and stop charging via direct-to-cell method | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | in my signature, there is a guide for calibrating it | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | and even for measuring capacity of battery using device only. | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | accurately measuring (no less than using external dedicated LiIon charger with measuring capabilities) | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | generally speaking, bq27200 is even better than them, cause it doesn't have problems with real-time changing current draw | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | it just keep track about it | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | external chargers just discharge battery at some constant rate | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | like 500 mA or whatever You set | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | and divide discharging time by this rate | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | actually, multiply it, not divide | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | this is why You get mA *h | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | = mAh | 01:41 |
| Estel_ | 500mA rate and 3h discharging until full = 500 mA * 3H = 1500 mAh, basic math/physic ;) | 01:42 |
| Estel_ | in fact it is 500 * mA *3*h, while multiplying, You can change order of elements freely, so You reduce numbers to one (1500) and put mA and h close to each other = mAh | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | bq27200 is more uber, as it calculate it constantly, based on momnentary currents too | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | so if it have 500 mA in half of second, and 50 for next 5 seconds, he know how to calculate it properly ;) | 01:44 |
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| Estel_ | normally, this kijnd of chip is bundled with batteries - making them more expensive, and allowing sucker manufacturers to impose limits, like "stop to work after xxx cycles" | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | in our case, it is inside device, so no such tricks and we have read-only access to it - good side is that batteries are easidly moddable, bad side is that it get's confused if You hotswpa batteries, or generally, change them ;) | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | honestly, I think it's for +, after all | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | dealing with chips inside batteries is PITA | 01:47 |
| kerio | Estel_: the chip resets itself if you remove the battery and power it down, right? | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | no, unless You have internal battery (this one that keeps clock) fubar | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | like, mostly everyone now | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 01:47 |
| kerio | oh, i see | 01:47 |
| kerio | hm | 01:47 |
| kerio | it actually works for me i think | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | try rmeoving battery for hour | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | ;0 | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | for me even few minutes/or even seconds is enough | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | in fact, this green thing from inside "battery" is also outside | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: WUT? | 01:48 |
| Estel_ | quite easy to desolder and solder new, though | 01:48 |
| kerio | dafuq | 01:49 |
| kerio | green thing? | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah bupbat | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, looking at it closely (this small coin thing) it's not | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | yes | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | in fact, every device I've disassembled have little ring of green thing outside | 01:49 |
| kerio | ew | 01:49 |
| kerio | :s | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | what it is, strictly? capacitor battery? | 01:49 |
| kerio | is there a way to get a good one that will last? or are they all bad? | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | yes, there is, it's cheap | 01:49 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, have links | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bupbat | 01:50 |
| infobot | somebody said bupbat was http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/2009.pdf http://il.farnell.com/taiyo-yuden/pas414hr-va5r/cap-0-06f-3-3v-80ohm-4-8mm-coin/dp/1853000?Ntt=PAS414HR-VA5R, or use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | shipping is more expensive than battery, though | 01:50 |
| kerio | k | 01:50 |
| kerio | hehe, it's always like that | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | best to buy 50 at once :D | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any sense in buying higher cap one? | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 01:50 |
| Estel_ | what it is, from technical point of view? hybride of capacitor and battery? | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you dont need 12 monts of standby | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | shouldn't capacitor discharge itself pretty quickly anyway? | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | true | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | lifetime | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | maybe should use normal silver coin from timer?:P | 01:51 |
| kerio | haha | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, an ideal capacitor holds charge infinitely | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, but in real life we don't have ideal ones | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but still they hold charge over months and years | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | sure, but I wonder what is different in this one, from normal electrolyte one | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | or ceramic one | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | that loses charge in seconds | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I got shocked from a old aplliance that been in the attic for years | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | yea, and shocked You in exchange | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | but it's rare case | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | capacitor in filter still had charge | 01:53 |
| Estel_ | good one, for sure | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ceramic C hold charge for years | 01:53 |
| Estel_ | but, we can't jsut put electrolyte cyllinder there, instead of this 3.3 bupbat, that's why I'm asking what are the differencies | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use a goldcap | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | cause it's for sure something slightly different | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1F 3.3V | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | works, tested | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | :) thanks | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | normal one is 0.06f? | 01:54 |
| Estel_ | so this 1F 3.3V have standby time... 20 years? | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0.1F is OK as well, still sufficient for days of standby | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | I'm asking, as it's more cheap for me to get other goldcap locally, than this special type of bupbat from abroad | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | heck, even ten of them is still less than shipping. | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | use any huuuuuge capacitor that fits into case. 3V3 min | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | lol, first result on local wanna-be-ebay site - 2.2F 5,3V goldcap | 01:58 |
| Estel_ | still less expensive than bupbat | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure but will it fit into case? | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | of course not, but surprisingly, 3F is even cheaper and is same form size as our bupbat | 01:59 |
| Estel_ | it msut be 3.3v, or can be higher voltage range? I think the latter | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | s/msut/must/ | 02:00 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: it must be 3.3v, or can be higher voltage range? I think the latter | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | higher of course ok | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | i.e. it's "no less than 3.3", yep? | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | yea, as with capacitors, normally | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3V3 min was what I wrote | 02:00 |
| Estel_ | ? | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | minimum 3.3 Volt | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | 3.3v, I've said it too | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | yea | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict minimum | 02:01 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'minimum' (3 of 5): the smallest possible quantity ;; the least possible; "needed to enforce minimal standards"; "her grades were minimal"; "minimum wage"; "a minimal charge for the service" ;; the point on a curve where the tangent changes from negative on the left to positive on the right . | 02:01 |
| Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/kondensator-gold-cap-3-f-5-5v-poziomy-8245-i2479426361.html 3F one, lol, 3USD | 02:02 |
| Estel_ | even less | 02:02 |
| RiD | alnegro? | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: ????? | 02:03 |
| RiD | oh, it's allegro :S | 02:03 |
| * RiD blames the n900 screen | 02:03 | |
| Estel_ | suuure | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | bhungry one thinks about bread | 02:03 |
| RiD | i swear that looked like alnegro | 02:03 |
| Estel_ | maybe this one, it's like another N900 in size: | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | http://allegro.pl/jantzen-audio-silver-gold-z-cap-0-22-uf-dunskie-i2511777804.html | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | 4,7f, 250V | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | at least You never need to type in time again | 02:04 |
| RiD | uwaga chwilowo lol | 02:04 |
| Estel_ | only 30 USD | 02:05 |
| Estel_ | rid, don't do that. It's gibberish ;) | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah those HVHC critters are nice'n'funny. Usually from USP | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or power grid | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or electric trains | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MEH, that clearly ready "µF" | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reads* | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jantzen Audio | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clearly a completely different domain | 02:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 offers some guarnateed 100% oxigen free copper with passivation coating power cord, Schuko plug to open wire, for DIY. Length 90cm. Only 699EUR | 02:13 | |
| RiD | free, but only 700? | 02:13 |
| RiD | i'm in | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: you're the newcomer troll practicant? | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | sure, he learns from old masters ;) | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or are you pupnik actually? | 02:15 |
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| RiD | I'm here to replace whoever got banned | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | http://monkeyiq.blogspot.com/2012/07/off-record-messaging-tutorial.html <- absolutely great article. I would *love* to see communicator on N900 using this | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh, Portugal | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so prolly not pupnik | 02:16 |
| RiD | oh i see the ban list is actually quite clean, other than bots | 02:16 |
| RiD | and no, I'm not pupnik at all (i don't even know who is he/she) | 02:17 |
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| Estel_ | no worries, DocScrutinizer remind him ocne for a while, so for sure this one have eternal place in DocScrutinizer's heart ;) | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | although, he always refuse to tell who he was :( | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | sounds like pumpkin to me, anyway | 02:28 |
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| RiD | pumpkin? weren't you talking about pupnik | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | it still sounds like pumpkin | 02:30 |
| beford | what happened to pupnik | 02:30 |
| beford | ~seen pupnik | 02:32 |
| infobot | pupnik <PugVader@p54B29D69.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 304d 23h 42m 7s ago, saying: 'tegra chipset?'. | 02:32 |
| RiD | he died? | 02:33 |
| RiD | i mean, he left #maemo? | 02:33 |
| RiD | d'oh. ignore what my last 2 messages | 02:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm both disappointed that the channel rarely exceeds 300 users lately, and happy that it stays stable at 271-274 | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if you wanna know who's pupnik: there's chanlog in almost every relevant chan | 02:43 |
| RiD | lol | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=pupnik | 02:48 |
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| RiD | pupnikaand every meego conference visitor accepted TSA scaning their penis to see if they were circumcised | 02:53 |
| RiD | I see :/ | 02:53 |
| wmarone | heh, pupnik | 02:59 |
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| Woody14619 | ~hen | 03:24 |
| infobot | do ~hostmode and ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/ | 03:24 |
| Woody14619 | Hey, DocScrutinizer05... What's up with this ^^^ | 03:24 |
| RiD | ~hostmode | 03:24 |
| infobot | it has been said that hostmode is piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware! | 03:24 |
| RiD | ....o_o? | 03:24 |
| RiD | ~factinfo hostmode | 03:25 |
| infobot | error: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required) | 03:25 |
| infobot | hostmode -- created by MohammadAG <~MohammadA@62.219.120.20> at Mon May 10 21:17:16 2010 (812 days); last modified at Fri Jun 1 23:21:46 2012 by Estel_!~Estel@lagrange.cloud-7.de; it has been requested 68 times, last by RiD, 33s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer. | 03:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: what's wrong with it? The link between estel and council? | 03:26 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, If you'd be so kind... nuke that ~hostmode "factinfo" | 03:26 |
| Woody14619 | Because Estel is not Council. | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unlock hen | 03:27 |
| infobot | unlocking factoid hen, DocScrutinizer05 | 03:27 |
| Woody14619 | Hasn't been for a while. | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | go ahead | 03:27 |
| Woody14619 | lol... I've no clue how to change things in infobot. :P | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget hen | 03:27 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot hen | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen is a chick | 03:27 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 03:27 |
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| Woody14619 | ~hostmode | 03:28 |
| infobot | i heard hostmode is piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware! | 03:28 |
| RiD | lol. | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unlock hostmode | 03:28 |
| infobot | unlocking factoid hostmode, DocScrutinizer05 | 03:28 |
| Woody14619 | As long as it's attributed to Estel... :P | 03:28 |
| Woody14619 | I'd be curious when/where he said that... Doesn't supprise me frankly, but... :P | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he defined it for infobot | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like I do now | 03:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, hostmode is something estel abused | 03:29 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 03:29 |
| Woody14619 | June 1st? Really? Crack smoking.... :P | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unforget hostmode | 03:31 |
| Woody14619 | But yes, FYI: Estel is no longer Council. He announced his resignation on TMO and in meeting. http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_meeting-july_13-2012/ | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget hostmode | 03:32 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: cannot undeleted 'hostmode' because it already exists! | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode | 03:32 |
| infobot | i heard hostmode is something estel abused | 03:32 |
| RiD | ~hen | 03:32 |
| infobot | from memory, hen is a chick | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget hostmode | 03:32 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot hostmode | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget hostmode | 03:32 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'hostmode'. Have fun now. | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode | 03:32 |
| infobot | hostmode is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330 | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock hostmode | 03:32 |
| infobot | locking factoid hostmode, DocScrutinizer05 | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen | 03:33 |
| infobot | i guess hen is a chick | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget hen | 03:33 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i forgot hen | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unforget hen | 03:33 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'hen'. Have fun now. | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen | 03:33 |
| infobot | hmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 | 03:33 |
| Woody14619 | Thanks for the assist on that. :) | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lock hen | 03:33 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: locking factoid hen | 03:33 |
| RiD | i was about to define hen | 03:33 |
| RiD | but that one is just fine | 03:34 |
| RiD | i was doing a huge paragraph | 03:34 |
| Woody14619 | Can't believe I missed that for this long. Only reason I saw it was because someone highlighted me just above someone using it... | 03:35 |
| Woody14619 | K, off to get dinner. Thanks again Doc & RiD. :) | 03:38 |
| RiD | why thank me? | 03:39 |
| RiD | o_O | 03:39 |
| Woody14619 | you were willing to help (even if it was locked. ;) | 03:39 |
| Woody14619 | k, off to eat. Have a good night. | 03:40 |
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| Estel_ | lol, DocScrutinizer, why pinging me to death via factoid You've locked Yourself? :) | 04:01 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, if You would actually read council mailist on times when I was council - there was actually a discussion about it, with ivgalvez and SD69 involved, IIRC | 04:01 |
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| Estel_ | I those stormy times I highlighted that DocScrutinizer locked this factoid in such state. | 04:02 |
| Estel_ | of course it doesn't surprise me, that You have no clue what hppened on council mailing list :) | 04:02 |
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| erfdfsd | ~hen | 04:03 |
| infobot | hen is, like, hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 | 04:03 |
| erfdfsd | ~h-e-n | 04:03 |
| infobot | do ~hostmode and ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/ | 04:03 |
| erfdfsd | ~hostmode | 04:03 |
| infobot | hostmode is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330 | 04:03 |
| *** erfdfsd is now known as Estel_ | 04:03 | |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, might wan't to nuke ~h-e-n too, as now it suggets that Council created hostmode, which is covered in thread on TMO | 04:03 |
| Estel_ | just a little suggestion ;) | 04:04 |
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| zeq1 | DocScrutinizer, freemangordon : dselect() is stable now, the test runs without problems and *MUCH* faster! To be expected I think. | 07:55 |
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| zeq1 | The locale problem is resolved, it stemmed from the configuration selecting -O3 optimization, which is much stronger with gcc-4.7. | 07:57 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: sorry, too much noise in the channel logs, what was the preoblem? | 09:28 |
| freemangordon | and it seems I was disconnected an hour ago | 09:28 |
| zeq1 | Something in the locale code, possibly, although not necessarily related to Nokia's changes was miscompiling at -O3, which is the optimization default in the libc6 pkg. | 09:30 |
| zeq1 | it was okay with gcc-42, but then that has a much weaker O3. | 09:31 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 09:31 |
| freemangordon | what now, -O2? | 09:31 |
| zeq1 | yes | 09:31 |
| zeq1 | I don't see why it should be O3 anyway | 09:31 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 09:31 |
| zeq1 | better to try to keep the code tight and in cache | 09:32 |
| freemangordon | yes, sure | 09:32 |
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| zeq1 | anyway, the test ran without any problem, and much, much faster. | 09:33 |
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| zeq1 | freemangordon: I saw a fennec update in the repo, it seems to run okay. | 09:37 |
| zeq1 | or rather HAM saw it :) | 09:38 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: yeah, the one in the thumb repo is ok | 09:42 |
| Estel_ | morning, freezeq :) | 09:42 |
| freemangordon | morning | 09:43 |
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| zeq1 | morning Estel_ | 09:43 |
| zeq1 | :) | 09:43 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: BTW there is some development on the bug, going to read it | 09:43 |
| freemangordon | hmm "Status: RESOLVED FIXED " | 09:43 |
| Estel_ | fennec! sure, I knew there is something elft that I had to test, but forget | 09:44 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: can you paste the url? | 09:44 |
| * Estel_ just finished testing usb Mode and sending Pali bugs found | 09:44 | |
| freemangordon | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778580 | 09:44 |
| povbot_ | Bug 778580: was not found. | 09:44 |
| zeq1 | Estel_: is the the new hostmode that lets you charge at the same time from external power? | 09:45 |
| Estel_ | BTw, messing with MCe is bitchy. I did something wrong, and I had situation, where my screen was *always* off - even after reboot - and every use of sldie emchanism was like with TV-out and external screen - status bar disappearing for a while, then appearing again | 09:45 |
| Estel_ | zeq, yea, although old hostmode allowed same thing | 09:45 |
| Estel_ | ne wone is jsut properly integrate dinto kernel, and have properly written GUI | 09:45 |
| zeq1 | it did? | 09:46 |
| Estel_ | hackish way | 09:46 |
| Estel_ | You needed to invoke "boostoff" from terminal, and then, invoke charging script | 09:46 |
| zeq1 | ah | 09:46 |
| Estel_ | say thanks to MohammadAG, who haven't found time for updating GUi in 3 years | 09:46 |
| Estel_ | that is why i'm extremely happy with usb Mode, as Pali is going to update it when needed, for sure | 09:46 |
| freemangordon | LOL, what a massive backout | 09:47 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: will you pull m-c? | 09:47 |
| zeq1 | sure | 09:47 |
| Estel_ | BTW, improved booston script used in current HEN was available for 18 months before, but again, no one wanted to update GUI. At the time when I was learning how to upload things to repositories, I announced, that I'm going to start with providing new version of HEN. MohammadAG got so scarred that I'm going to make a testbed of it, that he released update ;P | 09:48 |
| Estel_ | well, update was just like replacing 1 script in whole package, but still | 09:48 |
| Estel_ | erm, enough history of Maemo, volume :535 | 09:48 |
| Estel_ | as for MCE - finishing my short story, I needed to powercycle device, to bring it into working state | 09:49 |
| Estel_ | unless no-backlight and no-lock + diode pattern going indefinitely is considered as working | 09:50 |
| zeq1 | at least it didn't blow up :P | 09:50 |
| Estel_ | I hope that we will be able, one day, to replace mce | 09:50 |
| Estel_ | yea ;) | 09:50 |
| jonwil | good luck replacing MCE, its a very complex piece of code :P | 09:50 |
| Estel_ | but iamgine my WTF when slide lock didn't locked device, but blinked statusbar only, disabled touchpad (but keyboard was still working and responding!)... | 09:50 |
| jonwil | trust me, I should know :) | 09:50 |
| Estel_ | ...and run charging pattern via led | 09:50 |
| Estel_ | jonwil i know | 09:51 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: any commits I need to pull before pushing? | 09:51 |
| Estel_ | but once it was said that we will never be clsoe to replacing bme :P | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: no | 09:51 |
| Estel_ | MCe is real biatch, so I just hope | 09:51 |
| Estel_ | Well, time to stop generating "nosie in channel" (blinks to freemangordon) | 09:52 |
| Estel_ | noise, ffs | 09:52 |
| freemangordon | :nod: :P | 09:52 |
| Estel_ | see ya, gentlemans! | 09:52 |
| freemangordon | bye Estel_ | 09:53 |
| zeq1 | didn't rebase cleanly, need to jiggle the patches | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | hmm, why is that? | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | aah, ! thingie | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | maybe | 09:53 |
| zeq1 | no, somebody changed nsnull to nullptr | 09:57 |
| zeq1 | in widget/qt/nsWindow.cpp | 09:58 |
| zeq1 | it was code surrounded by our #ifdef's so it lost context | 09:59 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: do we want the ! thingie patch in? | 10:00 |
| zeq1 | Estel_: see ya | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: lets try without it, I could easily add it locally if needed for some testing | 10:02 |
| zeq1 | I'm trying to isolate the flag causing the libc breakage, I think it might be -ftree-vectorize | 10:02 |
| zeq1 | ok I'll reset HEAD^ | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | hmm, it is auto-enabled on -O3 iirc | 10:03 |
| zeq1 | yep | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ok | 10:03 |
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| zeq1 | pushed | 10:04 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: ^ | 10:05 |
| zeq1 | I now have a working thumb libc with kernel the missing syscalls working :) | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | good, going to pull fennec | 10:06 |
| zeq1 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 796.2K Jul 31 07:57 /lib/libc-2.5.so | 10:06 |
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| zeq1 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 397.6K Jul 31 07:57 /lib/libm-2.5.so | 10:07 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: what was the libm size before? | 10:07 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: libc 1160576 | 10:08 |
| zeq1 | nice improvment :) | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | libm 448316 | 10:08 |
| zeq1 | not bad :) | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | debs? | 10:09 |
| zeq1 | I might have to email them, my server is currently down for maintainence | 10:09 |
| freemangordon | wut? when it will be up again, i was thinking to copy toolchain in merlin's server and to write a short howto page on wiki :( | 10:10 |
| zeq1 | it might be up | 10:10 |
| zeq1 | I lied, it is up | 10:11 |
| freemangordon | :) | 10:11 |
| freemangordon | ok | 10:11 |
| zeq1 | but it is undergoing maintainence, all the same :) | 10:11 |
| zeq1 | I'll put the debs up | 10:11 |
| zeq1 | although, shouldn't we have a dependency flag like for the thumb errata? | 10:12 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 10:12 |
| freemangordon | for [armel] only | 10:12 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: isn't it better to ARM buil fit | 10:13 |
| freemangordon | *build it | 10:13 |
| freemangordon | not thum | 10:13 |
| freemangordon | that way it can be used outside thumb repo | 10:13 |
| zeq1 | well for thumb repo thumb is better | 10:13 |
| zeq1 | no reason I can't make a non-thumb version for cssu | 10:13 |
| freemangordon | well, yeah, but then the version string should be libc-...-thumb0 | 10:13 |
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| zeq1 | still needs to depend on sigmask syscalls | 10:14 |
| freemangordon | WTF? "Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result." | 10:14 |
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| freemangordon | i did git reset just before pull :( | 10:14 |
| zeq1 | ? | 10:14 |
| zeq1 | probably the null change | 10:15 |
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| freemangordon | but how im i supposed to pull ?!? | 10:17 |
| zeq1 | you could locally resolve the conflict | 10:20 |
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| freemangordon | but I don't want to do that. anyway I rm -rf the directory, will clone from scratch | 10:20 |
| zeq1 | the only other option would be to reclone, | 10:21 |
| freemangordon | :) | 10:21 |
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| zeq1 | I'm building cssu kernel with new syscalls | 10:22 |
| zeq1 | my testing has been with kp | 10:22 |
| freemangordon | do you have .diff ? | 10:23 |
| freemangordon | so I can push it on gitorious | 10:23 |
| zeq1 | yes, shall I put it up | 10:23 |
| freemangordon | on your server? yes | 10:23 |
| zeq1 | I used quilt to apply it so you shouldn't have a problem with it | 10:23 |
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| zeq1 | in maemo/sigmask | 10:25 |
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| zeq1 | freemangordon: ^ | 10:25 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: ok | 10:27 |
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| zeq1 | shall I put up my glibc diffs too? | 10:31 |
| freemangordon | yes | 10:31 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: hmm aren't they in the source package? | 10:32 |
| zeq1 | they would be if I built one :) | 10:33 |
| zeq1 | just put up the debs including source pkg then? | 10:33 |
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| freemangordon | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -us -uc | 10:34 |
| freemangordon | and put the original source package in the ../ dir, so it will make diff.tar.gz package | 10:35 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ | 10:35 |
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| freemangordon | fuck, clonning fennec takes ages | 10:36 |
| zeq1 | ok will do | 10:36 |
| freemangordon | zeq: you should rename the original source package to something like [libc].orig.tar.gz | 10:37 |
| freemangordon | s/should/should also/ | 10:37 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: zeq: you should also rename the original source package to something like [libc].orig.tar.gz | 10:37 |
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| zeq1 | freemangordon: something to be aware of (very important) | 10:47 |
| zeq1 | you need to have the linux headers installed before building glibc | 10:48 |
| zeq1 | otherwise it doesn't obviously fail | 10:48 |
| zeq1 | so I need to put in that feature dependency | 10:49 |
| zeq1 | otherwise you end up with a libc completely lacking pselect()! | 10:50 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: hehe | 10:50 |
| zeq1 | not good! :) | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, at least the symptoms will be quite unique then | 10:51 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: I will add kernel-feature-libc-pselect. | 10:51 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ how that sounds? | 10:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | umm, who'd doing pselect now? | 10:52 |
| zeq1 | probably better to make it sigmask or something | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | libc, or kernel? or none of both? | 10:52 |
| zeq1 | kernel | 10:52 |
| zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: it's much faster | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it shouldn't be named kernel-feature-libc-pselect | 10:53 |
| zeq1 | and doesn't hang anymore :) | 10:53 |
| Pali | ok | 10:53 |
| Pali | but this is for package *linux*-kernel-power-headers | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ok | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: what sigset? would you elaborate | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | sigmask even | 10:54 |
| zeq1 | see the patch name | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, patch name is rather common best practice for feature name | 10:55 |
| zeq1 | it's not just pselect(), but 3 syscalls related to the same thing | 10:55 |
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| zeq1 | I wonder how it's going to affect power consumption? | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how would it? | 10:56 |
| zeq1 | dbus is a heavy user of pselect() | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAH | 10:57 |
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| zeq1 | and the performance difference isn't slight | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, there's a performance improvement from patched pselect() ? | 10:57 |
| zeq1 | big | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF? what did they do in "old" lib? | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | busy loop waiting for signals? or what | 10:58 |
| zeq1 | I think so | 10:59 |
| zeq1 | also several syscalls to emulate 1 | 10:59 |
| zeq1 | that doesn't help | 10:59 |
| zeq1 | lots of trips to and from kernel | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still pselect() usually results in process going sleep | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so yes, in a special testbed there might be improvements in CPU load | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or turnaround time of a tight loop | 11:01 |
| zeq1 | it can't hurt | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | definitely | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 11:01 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: so, what now, community kernel? | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for fixing pselect() ? | 11:09 |
| freemangordon | and one more bug | 11:09 |
| freemangordon | BT related | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you could demonstrate the stock kernel has bug, then probably yes | 11:09 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no need, it is CVE | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | demonstrate as in "run the test code that summons the erratic behaviour" | 11:10 |
| freemangordon | Dit is CVE, there is no need me to demonstrate it | 11:10 |
| freemangordon | *it | 11:11 |
| Pali | ping merlin1991 | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you asked for my notion. well that's it | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd expect you feeling happy about an answer way less negative than you probably expected | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 11:12 |
| freemangordon | well, TBH I didn't expect "prove that CVE is CVE". https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12558 | 11:15 |
| povbot_ | Bug 12558: kernel/bluetooth: CVE-2010-1084: potential bad memory access with sysfs files | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | otherwise I perfectly know who the negatron man is :P | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I was commenting on the pselect() stuff | 11:16 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think zeq already demonstrate it | 11:16 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ^^^ ? | 11:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: we only need *one* valid rationale for cssu-kernel ;-D | 11:17 |
| zeq1 | to be entirely fair, I haven't run a stock kernel for years | 11:18 |
| kerio | yay stock kernel upgrade! | 11:18 |
| zeq1 | to be entirely fair, I haven't run a stock kernel for years | 11:18 |
| kerio | yay stock kernel upgrade! | 11:18 |
| zeq1 | that said this is a well known problem in glibc | 11:18 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: well, now you have thumb you can't run it | 11:18 |
| zeq1 | indeed | 11:18 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you are on stock, aren't you? | 11:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 11:18 |
| kerio | freemangordon: by the way, i vote for it to be called "kernel" | 11:19 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: could you run the binary that hangs with buggy libc then | 11:19 |
| kerio | because it's the kernel | 11:19 |
| freemangordon | libc/kernel | 11:19 |
| kerio | and stuff | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't hang | 11:19 |
| kerio | D: | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, shouldn't | 11:20 |
| zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: I got it to hang | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and that's exactly what? a proof for nuttin | 11:20 |
| zeq1 | it seemed to hang more quickly when the system was busy | 11:20 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what | 11:21 |
| freemangordon | ? | 11:21 |
| freemangordon | it is a proof that fremantle is affected by this | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no | 11:22 |
| freemangordon | Or I am totally unable to parse your statements | 11:22 |
| zeq1 | it's an unavoidable problem with trying to emulate pselect in userspace | 11:22 |
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| teotwaki | And you submit the patch + testscases to them | 12:21 |
| teotwaki | or you don't test it at all | 12:21 |
| teotwaki | cuz from a truthiness point of view, it's all the same. | 12:21 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: I've put the libc on the server. | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ok | 12:21 |
| teotwaki | there's no more guarantee from having me, doc, or joeblogs test it. | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how the f*ck hard can it be to post some proper report to ML, like "this is the problem: dadadada.... \n this is the patch: c-code_c-code.... \n these is the test code and are the test results showing there's a problem (see line 56) and that we fix it (see line 124)" | 12:21 |
| teotwaki | Submit it to the mailing lists, ask for feedback, give it 1-2 weeks time | 12:22 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer++ | 12:22 |
| freemangordon | teotwaki: that is not how CSSU development works | 12:22 |
| zeq1 | the proper test is just to test the new syscalls | 12:22 |
| ArkanoiD_ | damn. Nokia failed the idea of merged contacts for unified communications miserably :-( and it is even worse in Harmattan and seems to actually have nothing with sync :-(( | 12:22 |
| zeq1 | make sure they work to spec | 12:22 |
| kerio | ArkanoiD_: works fine in fremantle, i think | 12:23 |
| ArkanoiD_ | kerio, never worked for me, some contacts occasionally "exploded" all the way | 12:23 |
| teotwaki | This is how I analyse and report bugs: http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/zeromq-dev/2012-July/017912.html http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/zeromq-dev/2012-July/017936.html | 12:23 |
| kerio | ArkanoiD_: ouch | 12:24 |
| ArkanoiD_ | i thought it is google sync to blame but actually it is something else | 12:24 |
| teotwaki | Anyone on the list can double check what I said, so when I come with a patch/merge request, there'll be a trace. | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and "that is how the patch works: explain_explain, and that's why the test works: more_explain" | 12:24 |
| ArkanoiD_ | because on n950 i disabled google sync completely and it did not get any better | 12:24 |
| kerio | freemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check them and push them | 12:24 |
| kerio | s/them/the patch/ | 12:25 |
| infobot | kerio meant: freemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check the patch and push them | 12:25 |
| kerio | hrmpf | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | teotwaki: are you aware I am in CSSU team? Not kidding, asking seriouly. | 12:25 |
| kerio | freemangordon: file a bug report, write a test case and a patch - then notice that someone filed a bug, wrote a test case and a patch, check them and push the patch | 12:25 |
| teotwaki | freemangordon: yeah, I do, but fuck me, I couldn't tell by your attitude. | 12:25 |
| kerio | freemangordon: having a trace is still good | 12:25 |
| teotwaki | freemangordon: I'm guessing you didn't understand my rant of "go or nogo"? | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | teotwaki: well, blame my english. | 12:26 |
| teotwaki | freemangordon: what I meant was, you and pali or pati or whatever are basically the people who would approve/refuse this if it came to you from someone else, right? | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | yep | 12:27 |
| teotwaki | freemangordon: so, now you're trying to fix something, but asking someone else for approval of your work? | 12:27 |
| teotwaki | So, either you shouldn't be approving other people's work in the first place | 12:27 |
| teotwaki | or, you can simply submit it publicly, and approve it publicly. | 12:27 |
| teotwaki | Which either validates the whole process, or invalidates the whole infrastructure. | 12:27 |
| freemangordon | But I want doc on my side, as he is a part of CSSU for long time now, even not officialy | 12:28 |
| teotwaki | Exactly, the keyword being "not officially", so it doesn't change anything to the whole political issue | 12:28 |
| teotwaki | freemangordon: had you just sent an email to the mailing list explaining the issue, documenting your patch, and asking for review, I'm sure Doc would've been happy to test it | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, we need a public statement why we need a new kernel in CSSU, with proper evaluation and rationale | 12:29 |
| teotwaki | but going to him directly, and asking "yo bru, you've got a stock kernel right? Can you execute this binary for me?" | 12:29 |
| teotwaki | that's just plain stupid | 12:29 |
| teotwaki | And I'm not even talking about the security issue | 12:30 |
| teotwaki | Just from a "due process" point of view | 12:30 |
| teotwaki | freemangordon: do you get our position now? | 12:30 |
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| freemangordon | asking someone from CSSU team (even not officialy) to make a test for me is not stupid from my POV. Otherwise yes, I think I got it. | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a) I'd like to see at least a pastebin of "it hangs..." and b) we need to do this public, my "approval" in the end is worth nuttin | 12:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and c) yes I think the rationale is basically correct, so that's my approval already | 12:32 |
| zeq1 | teotwaki: the disagreement is technical over whether it's been proven that the glibc pselect() is racy. Doc has a quite reasonable objection to my testing since it was not conclusive proof. It did definitely show the pselect() syscall is working however. | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since you pointed me to comment #6 | 12:32 |
| freemangordon | teotwaki: but in the end it seems it is not the correct channel to discuss CSSU issues, my apologies | 12:33 |
| teotwaki | zeq1 & freemangordon: If you want to get anywhere, fire up a shared text editor, get on some form of VoIP, and draft an email that explains the issues, and offer some proposals | 12:33 |
| zeq1 | On the other hand I'm not sure why I need to prove it when it's very well known defect, even making the quoted except fromw wikipedia. | 12:34 |
| zeq1 | I'm now on #maemo-ssu if that a more appropriate channel. | 12:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | zeq: you for example need to prove that stock kernel not already has a similar patch (or other means to not be affected by the issue. E.G. by one of numerous ARM idiosyncrasies) | 12:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~Botsnack | 15:05 |
| infobot | aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51 | 15:05 |
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| kerio | i installed a screen protector but i took too much time and now there's dust permanently on my screen :( | 15:22 |
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| kerio | it's only noticeable in direct light or when there are white areas on the screen, but it's still annoying | 15:23 |
| kerio | and it was only one, so i can't try again either | 15:23 |
| kerio | D: | 15:23 |
| kerio | i could just not use it i suppose | 15:25 |
| kerio | but it would piss off my father | 15:25 |
| kerio | goddammit | 15:25 |
| kerio | is there any way to clean the screen side of a screen protector? | 15:26 |
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| vi__ | zeq: It is libgcc4.7.2 right? | 15:44 |
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| RiD | kerio piss of your father? | 15:53 |
| RiD | why is that? I never used a screen protector. Sure, got some scratches because of that, but they're only noticeable under direct sun light | 15:54 |
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| kerio | RiD: because he doesn't approve of wasting money | 15:54 |
| kerio | rightfully so | 15:54 |
| kerio | but nevermind, cleaned it | 15:55 |
| kerio | now it's perfect ^_____^ | 15:55 |
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| kerio | (for the record: clean with soap, put in alcohol, remove, shake off until only few drops remain, and put it on) | 15:55 |
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| vi__ | Did you get your otterbox yet? | 16:02 |
| vi__ | What screen protector did you get? | 16:03 |
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| kerio | vi__: the otterbox should arrive tomorrow | 16:10 |
| kerio | i got an atfolix protector | 16:11 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ping | 16:13 |
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| kerio | who's the maemo.org repos maintainer? | 16:19 |
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| ZogG_laptop | kerio: X-Fade why? | 16:23 |
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| vi__ | zeq: ping | 16:42 |
| kerio | hmm, backupmenu only handles a uSD when it's vfat on /dev/mmcblk1p1 apparently | 16:43 |
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| zeq1 | vi__: pong | 17:20 |
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| vi__ | hey, you seen the forum? | 17:30 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: ping | 17:30 |
| vi__ | doc|home: ping | 17:30 |
| vi__ | geeze, which one is real? | 17:30 |
| vi__ | zeq: You saw TMO? | 17:30 |
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| kerio | vi__: regarding what? | 17:33 |
| vi__ | kerio: we have raised enough monies to buy zeq an N900 for development purposes. | 17:33 |
| kerio | :D | 17:33 |
| kerio | sweet | 17:34 |
| vi__ | In less than an hour. | 17:34 |
| kerio | damn, now i feel bad for not donating anything | 17:34 |
| kerio | oh well | 17:34 |
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| vi__ | kerio: and so you should. | 17:34 |
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| kerio | Pali: i keep loving you more and more ^_^ | 17:36 |
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| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 http://5z8.info/-OPEN-WEBCAM---START-RECORD--_q0i4ao_linked-in-of-sex | 17:37 |
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| kerio | vi__: fun fact: i even have a spare n900 i don't use because the usb port is broken | 17:42 |
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| jonwil | I would have donated if I wasnt flat broke | 17:48 |
| vi__ | jonwil: thats ok jon. Your contributions of lines of code are worth way more than 20 euro. | 17:51 |
| vi__ | kerio: Then send it to me. | 17:51 |
| kerio | vi__: hell naw | 17:51 |
| vi__ | fine, be like that. | 17:51 |
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| jonwil | actually, I think my reverse engineering is by far the biggest contribution to the community | 17:52 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: great news | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | vi__: which thread? | 17:57 |
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| teotwaki | don't you fucken hate it when you post a reply to a mailing list, then a follow-up the next day to provide a really thorough answer, just to get a reply "Hey, cool." | 18:11 |
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| rcg-work | teotwaki: hey cool | 18:24 |
| teotwaki | I'm so tempted to ban you right now. | 18:24 |
| rcg-work | scnr :) | 18:26 |
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| jonwil | damn I have been spending too much money lately :( | 18:35 |
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| jonwil | but its on things I need so I have to spend it | 18:35 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: [call to arms!] | 18:37 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: thanks | 18:37 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: if all the pledges come through, we have enough to buy one of a guy on the forum. | 18:37 |
| vi__ | He lives in the same city as me. | 18:37 |
| vi__ | So I can go see it, pay with cash if it is good. | 18:37 |
| vi__ | Sodler down the USB and ship that mutha off to zeqland. | 18:38 |
| vi__ | s/sodle/solder/ | 18:38 |
| vi__ | s/sodler/solder/ | 18:38 |
| freemangordon | grea | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | great even | 18:40 |
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| vi__ | I just need DocScrutinizer to NOT buy one for 150 euros like he siad he might. | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ok | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | then I'll not have to cry when I have to send out the baby, I can keep it after I find any :-) | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anybody educate vi that IRC is no drive_by medium? | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~botsnack | 19:58 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer51 | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | at least ONE is listening and online | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen timeless | 19:59 |
| infobot | timeless is currently on #maemo, last said: 'could someone please tell me what "inedi.ntcn" is in that file? :)'. | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | timeless: still with RIM? | 20:00 |
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| Woody14619 | Estel_, I read your constant whine about infobot, but you conveniently left out how YOU insulted community memebers by setting a negative factoid. Ironic in a way since your first spat here on IRC was over a negative factoid set by someone else. Yet another misrepresentation of Council... That said, your exit from Council has patched a lot of this, so I'm done talking about it. Just saddens me that I have to continue cleaning up you | 20:09 |
| Woody14619 | r messes even after you ran for the hills. | 20:09 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: ping | 20:14 |
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| vi__ | brb, sprints. | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: pong | 20:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: c'mon :-D meanwhile *everybody* has made his notion | 20:32 |
| Woody14619 | ?? :) Made his notion? Don't follow you. | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: or is there any tmo rant ongoing which I haven't noticed? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry for my french. I meant everybody knows estel and how to read his posts and rants | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ::: not at all | 20:33 |
| Woody14619 | No, I'm saying I find irony that he was all up at arms over the ~tmo factoing here being "insulting to the community", but then creates his own insulting factoid and get pissy when someone locks it to prevent him from changing it after he regrets it. | 20:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I just improved my ignore/spamfilter. Got a better more finegrained dynamic version in wetware | 20:34 |
| Woody14619 | Lol... I tend to make my ignore filters at my "caring" level. Ignoring them electronicly just means you don't see what they're up to, not that they're not up to anything. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: after all that's been exactly my plan | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: :nod: | 20:36 |
| Woody14619 | What's the old saying? "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" Better to know what they're up to than to ignore them. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: my enemy? ohwell, too much honor I'd spend by that | 20:37 |
| Woody14619 | no, not my enemy, though I can't say if the inverse it true. Reguardless, someone I'd rather track than be supprised by later. ;) | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sure thing - double true when you got shanghai'd for chanop | 20:41 |
| teotwaki__ | if you have "enemies" in the same open source community, you've got other things coming than "whatever they're planning". | 20:41 |
| Woody14619 | agreed teotwaki__, but that doesnt' stop some people from making them... | 20:42 |
| teotwaki__ | Woody14619: what you didn't know... is that secretly... | 20:42 |
| * Woody14619 nods to Doc | 20:42 | |
| teotwaki__ | I AM | 20:42 |
| *** teotwaki__ is now known as OMGESTEL | 20:42 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o OMGESTEL | 20:42 | |
| OMGESTEL | Mwhuahahahaha | 20:42 |
| *** OMGESTEL is now known as teotwaki__ | 20:42 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o teotwaki__ | 20:42 | |
| Woody14619 | Nor do I care. :) | 20:42 |
| Woody14619 | lol ;) | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | omgpupnik | 20:42 |
| teotwaki__ | haha | 20:43 |
| teotwaki__ | pupnik | 20:43 |
| teotwaki__ | where's that crazy fuck gone? | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | either died or got other interests now | 20:43 |
| teotwaki__ | I defo hope the latter | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | me too | 20:43 |
| teotwaki__ | talking about bygones, I wonder how qwerty's doing | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | he wasn't that bad | 20:44 |
| teotwaki__ | I should shoot him another email one of these days, see what he's up to. | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :nod: | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | greetings from me | 20:44 |
| teotwaki__ | will do | 20:44 |
| teotwaki__ | by the way | 20:45 |
| teotwaki__ | can you imagine that two years ago | 20:45 |
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| teotwaki__ | there were some 200 more people in here? | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I *know* | 20:45 |
| teotwaki__ | Heck, 3 years ago, 3 months from now, there were 400 more people in here. | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even 250 more at times | 20:45 |
| teotwaki__ | (amsterdam summit, n900 distribution) | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | duh | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's been slightly before my time | 20:46 |
| teotwaki__ | you weren't here back then? | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | but we're stable at 272 +- a few | 20:47 |
| teotwaki__ | fuck me | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (back then) nope | 20:47 |
| teotwaki__ | I've been idling in this channel for nearly 6 years | 20:47 |
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| teotwaki__ | DocScrutinizer51: seriously? I always thought you were here before me. | 20:48 |
| teotwaki__ | Oh well | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I lived rather autistic wrt maemo community with my N810 | 20:48 |
| teotwaki__ | I need to run off quickly | 20:48 |
| teotwaki__ | won't be back tonight though, people coming over for dinner | 20:48 |
| teotwaki__ | laters | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cya | 20:48 |
| Woody14619 | Oh... and since even a stopped clock is right twice a day... | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | enjoy | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | ~h-e-n | 20:49 |
| infobot | hmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 | 20:49 |
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| Woody14619 | Oh good.. that got fixed. :) | 20:49 |
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| Woody14619 | Must have missed that in the scroll back. :) | 20:49 |
| teotwaki__ | woops | 20:49 |
| teotwaki__ | sorry, just wanted to post this real quick | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Woody14619: hehe | 20:49 |
| teotwaki__ | http://firestarter.wedrop.it | 20:49 |
| teotwaki__ | It's mah project :) | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooooh | 20:50 |
| teotwaki__ | Just a placeholder, but it's served by the actual project already :) | 20:50 |
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| teotwaki__ | that page is rendered by two lines of code :) | 20:51 |
| teotwaki__ | auto & vl = this.layout<Vertical>(); | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm | 20:52 |
| teotwaki__ | vl.addChild<Icon>().size(400).type("F"); | 20:52 |
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| teotwaki__ | vl.addChild<Header, 3>().text("firestarter"); | 20:53 |
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| teotwaki__ | (not quite true, there's a bit more manual styling, but you get the idea) | 20:53 |
| teotwaki__ | anyway | 20:54 |
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| teotwaki__ | 'latah | 20:54 |
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| vi__ | Woody14619: hey! | 21:02 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer51: we found an n900. I hope you did not acquire one yet... | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | Was it hiding under you bed? :) | 21:02 |
| vi__ | no! | 21:03 |
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| vi__ | within an hour of starting the donations drive we had 110 euros in pledges to buy an n900 for zeq. A guy from my city (gregoranderson on tmo) has one for sale. | 21:04 |
| vi__ | TMO has some really cool people on it. | 21:05 |
| beford | like me | 21:05 |
| vi__ | you are a cool person? | 21:06 |
| beford | 24x7 | 21:06 |
| vi__ | M TO THE MUTHA FUKIN FO MAH NIZZLE. | 21:06 |
| vi__ | Woody14619: also, what is this offensive factoid? | 21:07 |
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| Woody14619 | Doc took care of them already... They were the ones around h-e-n that Estel made a while back apparently... | 21:08 |
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| Tofe | Hello ! | 21:08 |
| vi__ | ~h-e-n | 21:09 |
| infobot | from memory, hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 | 21:09 |
| vi__ | ~hen | 21:09 |
| infobot | [hen] hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232 | 21:09 |
| vi__ | lame | 21:09 |
| vi__ | ~tmo! | 21:09 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, tmo! is trolls, morons and ogres. | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | Better than it was two days ago. | 21:09 |
| vi__ | lols | 21:09 |
| Tofe | I'm wondering: when in a hildon-desktop plugin, where do all those "g_printf" I'm trying to output ? I don't see them even in the console in my scratchbox... Are they supposed to show up there ? Is there a log file ? | 21:10 |
| Tofe | ~hildon-desktop | 21:11 |
| Tofe | (worth trying...) | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: [2012-07-31 18:55:52] <DocScrutinizer51> then I'll not have to cry when I have to send out the baby, I can keep it after I find any :-) | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tofe: I'd guess the go to stdout of H-D | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever that might be | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably same as stdout of dsme | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that one probably has no stdout | 21:21 |
| Tofe | well, I do see other outputs (trackerd, for instance), but not mine | 21:21 |
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| Tofe | maybe my compilation options are to be blamed, I quite don't know | 21:22 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: wtf does that mean? | 21:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | vi__: does what mean? | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | my answer to your ping, given when you weren't in? | 21:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | oohfsck! 20:50 3652 22 22 -192 249 249 249 65535 78 | 21:51 |
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| ShadowJK | 78 minutes? :) | 22:24 |
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| Estel_ | Woody14619, honestly, instead of Your constant conspiracy theories and seeking enemies, I would like to hear more about Council's work on things that seems stalled for 3 weeks already, you're chair, after all | 22:29 |
| Estel_ | Other things are in fact too funny to even comment on them | 22:30 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, can I nominate You for Council?:P you got awesome patioence. I've went through Your discussion with DocScrutinizer, and honestly, I'm amazed by ammount of time You spenmd on persuading people that are like south park's "We won't listen" | 22:30 |
| Estel_ | It seems that You have much bigger "soft skills" (tm) than You think You have | 22:31 |
| vi__ | Estel_: chill the fuck out. Have you manaed ED on n950 yet? | 22:31 |
| Estel_ | I, for one, would already stop discussing with someone who isn't CSSu mmaintainer, but just lieks to sound like one ;) That';s why I'm not in Council, probably. | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | vi__, sure, qole managed it ages ago | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | I'm fighting one buggy blocker thing that makes Ed unusable on N950 | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | bug bigger than anything else | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | biggest design flaw in N950/N9 | 22:32 |
| vi__ | what? | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | capacitive screen ;P | 22:32 |
| vi__ | aegis. | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | noope, aegis is noob compared to screen that can't detec anything smaller than 10mm in diameter | 22:32 |
| vi__ | cap stylus?t | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | I'm constructing capacitive stylus with 1mm precision, despite need for10mm touch surface., blah! | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | normal cap styluses are worse than clicking with fingers | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | precise ones cost 1/3 price of N9 | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | I'm doing one for 1$ ;) | 22:33 |
| vi__ | how? | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | actually for free, using replacement stylus for N900 and anti-ESD foil from Rpi package | 22:34 |
| vi__ | ? | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | cutting a irregular shape out of foil, that makes detected touch zone *out* of place covered by "stylus" | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | something like "virtual crosshair" | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | You know where it will click | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | but You see this point | 22:34 |
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| Estel_ | = You can draw line and expect where it will end ;p | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | will post tutorial after finishing, i must just think about way to make this foil less elastic | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | glue something to it | 22:35 |
| vi__ | oh for a multitouch resistive screen. | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | yea | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | even resistive witohut multitouch, I have m-touch in ass | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | sur,e it helps in games | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | but honestly, I take resistive screen with pressure sensitivity, over it, any day | 22:36 |
| ds3 | captouch is F'ed if you want to really do stuff | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | yes | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | but, you know, from my experiments, it is possible to make stylus which will, at least, make possibole to hit small x buttoin in easy debian reliably | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | otherwise it's kinda unusable | 22:36 |
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| Estel_ | until you xbindkeys it via keyboard shortcuts to death (and still, you can't expect to prepare every possible shortcut that may be needed) | 22:36 |
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| vi__ | so you have installed ED? | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | as per qole's instructions. BTW, qwazix also did it | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | there is threa don TMO, somewhere about ed in harm | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | still, I want to use wheezy there ;P | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | actually, I'm focused in upgrtading N90 0version to wheezy, then, i'll use same image on N9 | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | n oidea about pulseaudio problems, though, and such things | 22:38 |
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| Estel_ | vi__, have You read backscroll as requested by freemangordon, about community donated n900 for zeq? | 22:39 |
| ds3 | given how cash strapped N is... wonder if we can get enough donations to get N to make one more N900 run | 22:40 |
| vi__ | Estel_: what about it? | 22:40 |
| Estel_ | no. | 22:40 |
| Estel_ | vi__, basically, zeq needs development device | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | his first impresiov was - which I'm proud to hear, and little ashamed :) about buying device from my "n900" service ;) | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | as a way of donation, I would sell it under costs | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | vbut, freemangordon got even better idea | 22:41 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I have already started the fundraiser. | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | he think if You could mimic what was done with DavyP | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | ah | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | nice4 | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | where? | 22:42 |
| vi__ | Estel_: we received 110 euros of pledges within the hour. | 22:42 |
| Estel_ | awesome and nice to hear :) | 22:42 |
| Estel_ | where is thread/annoucement about it? | 22:42 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I found a guy in my city who wants to sell an n900. | 22:42 |
| Estel_ | great, I was about to aks if You're able to find bad condition supercheap N900 | 22:42 |
| vi__ | I just have to wait for the pledges to be fulfilled, I buy it, solder down usb. shippit to zeq. | 22:43 |
| Estel_ | nice :) how expensice the device is? | 22:43 |
| Estel_ | expensive* | 22:43 |
| vi__ | 100 euro. | 22:43 |
| vi__ | second hand. | 22:43 |
| Estel_ | great. Haven't You said, that You have 110 already? | 22:43 |
| Estel_ | it's much cheaper that I would be able to buy | 22:44 |
| Estel_ | so i'm glad You did it <ok> | 22:44 |
| vi__ | Estel_: we have 110 promised, just have to wait fot them to pay up. | 22:44 |
| Estel_ | (ok as in "thumb up") | 22:44 |
| Estel_ | nice. but, again, where the f is donation thread? Or it's closed already? | 22:45 |
| vi__ | Estel_: just a case of the right place at the right time. | 22:45 |
| vi__ | Estel_: buried! | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | :) | 22:46 |
| vi__ | Estel_: it was called [call to arms!] | 22:46 |
| * Estel_ nods | 22:46 | |
| Estel_ | You know that you've basically organized what Council would be supposed to organize? Yet, you didn't wanted to candidate for Council, when I've asked You to :) | 22:47 |
| Estel_ | it's quite a pity, that people who have skills/moral/merit to become councilors doesn't want to (you, freemangordon, would find some other names to...) and instead, people that *want* become councilors, end up candidating and being elected | 22:48 |
| Estel_ | paradox of human nature, eh? | 22:49 |
| Sicelo | :\ | 22:49 |
| vi__ | Estel_: you need to curb talking that shit estel. it just pisses people off. | 22:50 |
| Estel_ | vi, who's saying that? i always though you're the one who says things when needed to be said, not carring much about "like/dislike" | 22:50 |
| Estel_ | anyway, I think that last thought is quite calm and constructive | 22:51 |
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| beford | its not, its called trolling | 22:51 |
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| Estel_ | you know what we ended with, and it could be even worse (arie also candidated :P ). We have freemangordon, You, Pali, and other people that would be absolutely perfect candidates for Council re skills, bot soft and hard, both coding and social :) | 22:51 |
| * Sicelo agrees with vi, beford. | 22:52 | |
| Estel_ | beford, what isn't called trolling these days, eh? | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | sharing thoughts in civil way? *shrugs* | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | you know that irc have nice little button with "X" label, if You preffer places, where people think only like you think? | 22:52 |
| Estel_ | so now, please GTFO, when i'mtrying to convince someone to candidate for Council during next election, due to meritocratic things (like organising donation of devices for devs) :) beford, that's for You :* | 22:53 |
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| beford | wtf? | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | it's also where You can kiss me, when You want to call something trolling, just becouse it's trending word. Fine? | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | thanks for You time. | 22:54 |
| beford | shutup women, get on my horse | 22:54 |
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| Estel_ | Sicelo, after this moment of understandable silence, You still agree with beford? Or are You going to find less childish "twin souls"? ;) | 23:00 |
| beford | stop trolling Estel_ | 23:00 |
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| beford | you attack me and espect me to be quiet? | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | it's up to you, but I would feel a little ashamed, due to fact of agreeing with such msierable creature | 23:01 |
| beford | you ask me to GTFO, and ask me to quit the channel | 23:01 |
| beford | yea, right. | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | beford, Your words are your choose, If all you have to tell us is some childish, 12-years old like (at best) sexist... I don't know, "gag"? | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | I udnerstand that immature doesnt-mean-anything lines of sexist comparisions are common in Your natural enviromnent ;) but we're on #maemo, ya know. | 23:02 |
| beford | surprise muthefucka. this is the internet. | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | well, internet got exact same ratio of miserable morons than real life, I suppose ;) | 23:03 |
| beford | just stop attacking me. stfu. please. | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | I've seen manyu different people here - some liking to argue jsut for the sake of it, some thinking that they're fighting for better good,. but You first one to land on my IRc ignore liost, due to being completely miserable creature, not worth my time. Congratulations. | 23:03 |
| vi__ | -_- | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | and take Your time, aftyer all, You need to have at least one place where You can talk about Your view on sex without being laughed off, yep? | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | we're not *so* cruel. | 23:04 |
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| vi__ | Estel_: have you ever tripped on hallucinogenic mushrooms? | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | vi__, mushrooms are for kids, Datura is a way to go! | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | But after Datura I wouldn't see you as candidate for councilor - you would be candidate for Pope in my eyes! | 23:12 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I know what datura is. I have grown it, I have consumed it. The original question still stands. | 23:12 |
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| Estel_ | consumed? I've actually added it to tea (no joke) | 23:13 |
| mrover | Hello | 23:13 |
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| Estel_ | muchsroms, hm, let me think | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | I think no. | 23:13 |
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| sobczyk | hi, anyone here managed to run power kernel along nemo | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | have You tried Juares? It's nice addition for Sunday chicken date | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | sobczyk, yea, many people, see TMO | 23:14 |
| vi__ | You should try them. They will let you see the world in a whole new light! | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | s/sea/search on/ | 23:14 |
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| Estel_ | pink light spectrum instead of white? | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | better answer if You can be convinced to candidate for Council, as this questions stays, too | 23:14 |
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| mrover | Just a quick question. Can anyone use routing in maemo-mapper or CloudGPS? | 23:15 |
| kerio | cloudgps has a weird bug for me, the "search" text box displays text rotated by π/2 | 23:16 |
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| vi__ | mrover: AFAIK maemo-mapper is abandoned. | 23:17 |
| mrover | gnuite.com seems to be down. Just wanted to know if anybody is experiencing same problem | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | mrover, try modrana or Marble | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | Modrana seems like a way to go for You | 23:18 |
| vi__ | kerio: dwarz said it would be fixed in the next version. That was a while ago. | 23:18 |
| vi__ | I think he has moved on :/ | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | vi__, question about You as candidate for Council still stand | 23:18 |
| vi__ | modrana is the only activly maintained map application left. | 23:19 |
| mrover | Well, thank you for answers. Cheers! | 23:19 |
| kerio | what about maep? | 23:19 |
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| vi__ | Estel_: No chance. I neither have the time nor the patience. | 23:19 |
| vi__ | Besides, I rather like the current councillers. | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | Understood, but it's a pity, as being 8no* councilor You do councils tasks many times | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | like explaining things, maintaining communication, or donating | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | so You proven already, that you have both time and patience :P | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | [rant]It's quite tragic, that people who *want8 to become councilors candidate and get there, instead of people that *should* become. It never leads to good things[/rant] | 23:21 |
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