IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-07-21

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ShadowJKand if you do blow one up, DO NOT INHALE, leave the area immediately00:07
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chem|stand GO SEE A DOCTOR00:10
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FIQor better yet: don't mess with batteries at all outside their intended use (being used and being charged - with conventional methods)00:12
kerioFIQ: but messing around is fun!00:13
FIQkerio: do what you want00:13
DocScrutinizer05but first see that link I posted00:13
FIQdisclaimer :: I take no responsibility for any kind of damage caused by my line above00:14
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: dang, if only I mentioned the LiIon batteries in that shelf that burnt down and almost took me with it00:19
ShadowJKI briefly wondered why the flashlight people seem to get more bodily harm from Li batteries than RC people, but then realized that when the RC model airplane/heli or whatever explodes, it's not usually in the same room as the user :P00:21
vi__ShadowJK: or in their pocket.00:21
vi__I believe chem|st has an amusing story concerning exploding batteries...00:21
DocScrutinizer05I'm just happy there were ~80 shells 9mm in that shelf, so this was probably what awakened me00:22
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: where from stems the HF?00:25
DocScrutinizer05Teflon membrane?00:25
ShadowJKI'm unsure of the chemistry involved00:25
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Woody14619Off for the weekend.  Try not to blow yourselves all up before I'm back. :)00:27
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: seems you got a link to same forum anyway :-D00:27
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: we will leave a video for you00:28
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DocScrutinizer05now serious: such thinng like the blasted away balcony can't happen with BL-5J, but you *might* start a fire and suffer from ventig poisonous gas anyway00:29
DocScrutinizer05while charging in N900 is safe due to hw safety measures, it is NO good idea to alien charge LiIon cells with any random power source you happen to find somewhere00:31
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ShadowJKoff topic: tricopter armed with fireworks hunting hydrogen balloons, and bonus fireworks anti-aircraft turret at end :-)00:32
DocScrutinizer05I'd think the final boom was again the battery ;-P00:37
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* DocScrutinizer05 just wonders how they managed Z-axis rotation with a tricopter00:39
ShadowJKthe rear rotor is servo mounted and can tilt left/right00:40
DocScrutinizer05or are those rotors swivel-mounted00:40
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ShadowJKThey're supposedly easier to control than quad00:41
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess the electronics won't bother if it's tri or quad ;-D00:42
ShadowJKFor tri you might get away with gyro stabilization, but for quad I think you need a full mcu00:44
DocScrutinizer05stupid mech gyro stabi?00:44
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DocScrutinizer05I'd rather write a PID in assembler ;-)00:45
ShadowJKIn RC world, "gyro" is essentially a unit, that has servo control data input, and output. It can do "attitude hold" or "rate hold" on one axis, and can affect a single servo (or speed control) output to do that00:46
ShadowJKI think with quadcopter you need to do more "mixing" of control outputs to achieve desired goal?00:47
DocScrutinizer05nothing a raspi couldn't do ;-D00:47
ShadowJKtricopter can have pitch controlled by rear rotor speed, yaw controlled by rear rotor tilt, and roll by forward rotors00:47
ShadowJKThe popular controllers are "arduino based" ;-)00:48
ShadowJK"Atmega48/88/168/328 (DIL28)"00:48
DocScrutinizer05so low end it gets expensive00:49
ShadowJKThat's PIC ;-)00:49
DocScrutinizer05DIL28 - dafaq!00:50
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ShadowJKIt's nice for people who only ever solder 100Amp battery plugs00:50
DocScrutinizer05I'm pondering since 15 minutes about my old weird idea of a 2stroke-powered generator instead of batteries, for those quads00:52
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ShadowJKIt's useful for longevity00:53
DocScrutinizer05energy density of castor oil > LiIon00:53
ShadowJKI don't know about quads, but on "normal" RC helis, you can get about 20-30 minutes on electric while carrying camera platform and equipment for realtime downlink of videostream00:53
DocScrutinizer05recharging possible while flying00:54
ShadowJKWith extra fuel tanks and such, nitro powered "normal" RC helis can get close to an hour of flight time, but the smoke and vibrations are annoying00:55
ShadowJKthis thing only has noise and fire issues:
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, such a turbine monster spinning at 50,000/min and eating like a liter/min of gasoline is no less scary than LiIon going mad01:00
DocScrutinizer05I wonder how they transmit the turbine power to the rotor01:01
trxwell, with pressure?01:03
DocScrutinizer05or with difficulaty01:04
ShadowJKThere's this thing that starts spinning immediately, but the main gear and autorotation gears on the main rotor shaft seem to not move at all at first!?01:04
ShadowJK(rest of video fairly standard fly around)01:06
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ShadowJKmaybe some sort of centrifugal clutch or infinitely variable transmission..01:08
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iluminator105where can i get a n950?01:11
ShadowJKThe ones existing in the wild are "loaned" from Nokia. I heard someone sold their loaned device on ebay for like $2,500 though?01:11
iluminator105if its that much i will thake a pass i was hopin maybe around 250 range01:12
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: not all are loaners01:12
ShadowJKThe phone was never released01:12
ShadowJKAnd it was never sold01:12
ShadowJKIf it had been, it would probably had same, or slightly higher, price range as the N901:13
DocScrutinizer05err, it _was_ sold afaik, on commercial DDP01:13
ShadowJKYeah but not to general public :P01:13
iluminator105what does ddp stand for01:13
ShadowJKdeveloper device program, presumably01:13
DocScrutinizer056 months resale clause01:13
ShadowJKAnyway as it stands, they're pretty damn rare and that's why the one on ebay went for so much01:14
iluminator105i dont know why nokia makes great products and not release it to people01:14
ShadowJKI heard they break pretty easily01:14
DocScrutinizer05here ddp == launchpad (or was it actually launcpad?)01:14
ShadowJKBut yeah I agree, a qwerty hw keyboard N9? I'd pay money for that01:15
ShadowJKBut then again, I'd pay alot more for a upgraded N900 :P01:15
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DocScrutinizer05hah, our hw/admin-guy today - when I seen him using his phone - told me it's a hooker800, not a N9. And he likes it way better than any spyPhone01:18
DocScrutinizer05esp since it connects to exchange server01:19
ShadowJKOoh, 3dmasters 2012 happened01:20
DocScrutinizer05just the SIM holder incl SIM shoots away 2 meters whenever he opens the USB flap, since he dropped the device and the sim hoolde rnotch broke ;-P01:20
DocScrutinizer05sim holder notch01:20
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ShadowJKgrrr, it appears the official video crew used interlaced video. W.T.F.01:21
kerioi want a dual-core n900 with 2gb of ram :c01:22
ShadowJKI raise you quad core01:22
keriodon't be ridiculous now01:23
ShadowJKHSPA dual carrier and LTE, wifi 11n dual band01:23
keriowhy only dual?01:23
iluminator105wow, lets make a spec sheet of your ideal phone and send it jolla mobile01:24
ShadowJKBecause no carrier does tripple carrier?01:24
keriono, i meant the wifi01:24
ShadowJKwhat other bands are there besides 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz?01:24
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kerioShadowJK: *another* 2.4GHz or 5GHz01:25
keriodaddy needs his dual radio01:25
DocScrutinizer05listen... do you hear it already?01:25
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the *plink*?01:25
kerioand you're the one that still doesn't provide a service to upgrade the ram!01:26
kerioyou're an EE! you should be good at this stuff!01:26
FIQin fact there's a site that allows you to upgrade your RAM directly via the site, works instantly! :o01:27
* ShadowJK remebers Norton RAMbooster software sold on retail shelves in retail box01:27
ShadowJKpromised to double your ram01:27
ShadowJKthrough software01:27
FIQtoo bad I don't remember what it was called01:27
FIQshadeslayer: seriously?01:27
FIQnever mind my failed HL01:28
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FIQShadowJK: what did it do, exactly? create a swap?01:28
ShadowJKrun memmaker and create swap, yeah01:28
keriotwice the ram! but the newly-added ram is slow as shit01:28
FIQnone sued them?01:28
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ShadowJKMr Norton was such a scam artist when he started, that's why I refuse to use Norton products today.. heh01:28
ShadowJKNobody remembers Norton Crashguard? It promised to fix all crashes!01:29
FIQdid it do anything at all?01:29
ShadowJKWhat it did was hook into all the signal handlers, or whatever that's called on Windows, and just made everything ignore crashes and continue anyway01:29
FIQlol :p01:30
ShadowJKIt had fancy GUI listing the amount of crashes it saved you from!01:30
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iluminator105why not make a miniature version of rasperry pi with 1.4 dual core chip and communication chip and battery add on to it01:32
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ShadowJKrPi is pretty miniature as it is01:33
ShadowJKIt's the "1.4Ghz", "dual core", "communication chip", and all that, that make things bigger01:34
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keriojust put an i7 in the n90001:34
keriowhat can go wrong?01:34
iluminator105i7 your battery would drain fast01:35
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ShadowJKClocking the rPi chip at 1.4Ghz would still be slower than N9 for sure01:36
iluminator105i am saying sell a raspberry like device except its a phone barebones01:37
kerioiluminator105: the openpandora would be neat, except that they don't want to put a phone module in01:38
kerioalso, carriers won't let you do that01:38
ShadowJKLike GTA04? Just circuitboard01:38
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iluminator105GTA04 thats pretty cool01:48
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FIQ|n900[00:38:10] <kerio> iluminator105: the openpandora would be neat, except that they don't want to put a phone module in01:49
FIQ|n900isn't the pandora's specs worse than n900?01:50
ShadowJKsame as n900 iirc?01:52
FIQ|n900oh yes01:53
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iluminator105even if jolla mobile comes with something half ass decent, it will sell like hot cakes, IMHO01:54
ShadowJKI wonder how many night flying RC helicopters get reported as UFOs?
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nox-will jolla mobile have this aegis thing too tho?01:57
ShadowJKThat's my biggest concern really01:59
ShadowJKThe 3 suckiest properties about N9, as I gather, is 1) aegis 2) hw kbd 3) compromising touchscreen for curved surface02:01
ShadowJKBut I've never used an N9, so02:01
FIQ|n900as long as jolla or anyone at all are going to ever make phones with hardware keyboards again I'm fine02:03
FIQ|n900seen too much of hw-kbd-less things...02:03
ShadowJKasus makes hw kbd tablet, but that's not the same I guess02:03
FIQ|n900asus transformer?02:04
ShadowJKAnd slider02:04
FIQ|n900ah ok02:04
FIQ|n900the transformer is nice but not really what I want02:04
FIQ|n900as it's a tablet02:05
ShadowJKI've been seriously considering ordering an asus transformer as N800/N810 replacement though02:05
FIQ|n900I've considered buying one, but not as a phone02:06
FIQ|n900but more like an ultraportable computer, it could probably do wonders as one02:06
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ShadowJKWell not really02:07
ShadowJKit fails as "ultraportable computer" because it runs android02:07
FIQ|n900that's the problem02:07
ShadowJKAs "thing to surf cats on youtube while falling asleep" though, it should be nice02:08
FIQ|n900heh :p02:08
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Puchohello I just got my N900 but I need help please.03:28
ShadowJKpeople asleep, not mindreaders03:29
PuchoHow do I get to command line Interface and be root? Beacuse when trying to install anything in my mobile n900 it always showing an error message unable to install!!03:30
RiDPucho: new purchaser?03:31
PuchoI purchase my N900 used from ebay.03:31
RiDah well i'm dumb today03:31
RiDI see. well, did you flash it first?03:32
ShadowJKOn an otherwise functional N900; Command line interface: X-terminal is preinstalled. Root: install rootsh from application manager, then type "root" in x-terminal03:32
RiDor was it already flashed?03:32
PuchoThere is an app called x terminal, can I just type SUDO to become root?03:32
ShadowJKIf the previous owner has messed it up, no idea :)03:32
ShadowJKNo it needs the "rootsh" app03:32
PuchoI never flashed this device, I just started using it out of the box03:32
ShadowJKatleast I think it was called rootsh03:33
Puchowhat is rootsh, sorry I am new03:33
RiDok. if it has leftovers i recommend you to flash03:33
ShadowJKyep, it is "rootsh"03:33
PuchoThe unit was working fine after I received it, but now it cannot install or update apps03:33
RiDyou want to use the commandline and dont know what is root?03:33
RiDnvm i read it wrong*03:34
ShadowJKrootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -")03:34
PuchoAfter receiving the unit, I installed many apps just to test the n90003:34
ShadowJKProbably either the emmc, /home or / are full or corrupt, my guess03:34
RiDwith extras-devel on?03:35
Puchowhen rootsh is typed in CLI, the response is -sh rootsh: not found03:35
ShadowJKYou don't have "rootsh" installed then.03:35
PuchoI did not install anything from extras-devel repository, only from install apps manager on the N900 itself03:35
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RiDyes, but the app manager may have the extras devel catalog on03:37
RiDcheck under catalogs03:37
PuchoApp mgr catalogs are: nokia apps, Nokia Sys Software Update, Ovi and maemo.org03:38
ShadowJKEither way, I would not waste time trying to repair software problems the previous onwer has caused03:39 repo URL is
ShadowJKOf course the other possibility is that the hw is damaged in some areas03:41
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PuchoThat might be true.03:41
Puchois this a common problem w/ n900 Hw?03:41
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ShadowJKMost common issues are broken usb port, second most common is dead/dying/malfunctioning modem03:42
ShadowJKso it's not common03:42
RiDthe usb port scares me everyday03:42
RiDfeels so loose03:43
RiDnot compared at all when it was new03:43
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RiDi have had a few heart attacks where i thought my usb port died03:43
ShadowJKI've accidentally hung this N900 from charger cable 3 times now, and dropped it on floor once. No problems03:43
* RiD runs03:44
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RiDdo it a 4th03:44
RiDi only dropped my phone on 6cm03:44
ShadowJKno. :)03:44
RiDshiny wood03:44
ShadowJKMine fell from hip height onto concrete floor03:44
ShadowJKback cover and battery separated from it03:45
PuchoWhat is default root password on n900? I am trying to run sudo command on n90003:45
ShadowJKThere is no root password03:45
ShadowJKThough when you install openssh-server, you get asked to create a root password. Other than that, root (and user) password doesn't exist03:46
PuchoThank U. every time the following cmmd is run: "sudo dpkg --configure -a", the console asks for password03:47
RiDShadowJK: that made my cry03:47
ShadowJKThe default sudo config gives user 0 permissions, pretty much :)03:47
Puchousing terminal how can the user become root?03:48
PuchoI mean become superuser03:48
RiDsudo gainroot03:48
ShadowJKWithout ever using app manager? No ways03:48
Puchowhat do you mean? Plz explain. App Mgr is not working correctly. It says no apps are installed.03:49
PuchoWhen "sudo gainroot" is run, the response is "Enable RD mode if U want 2 break Ur device.03:50
ShadowJKI mean what I said. The path to become root: Start app manager, install rootsh, start xterminal, type "root" in xterminal03:50
PuchoThank U. Unfortunately App Mgr cannot install anything. I am trying to get App Mrg working again. There were some helpful posts in Maemo forum but they require root access.03:51
ShadowJKIf previous owner has broken stuff, then reflash.03:51
ShadowJKwithout root you can probably still access 'dmesg' to check for serious problems03:52
ShadowJKand df -h to check free space03:52
zeqsounds like full rootfs03:52
ShadowJKcould be03:53
zeqcssu-thumb would help ;)03:53
ShadowJKzeq: I bet it will take 4 hours to get him to paste output of df -h, though03:53
ShadowJKzeq: not without reflash first, surely? :)03:54
* ShadowJK goes sleep03:54
zeqprobably not.  app manager really could do with a recovery option...03:54
Puchorootfs usage is 64%03:54
ShadowJKApp repository could really do with a optification check. :)03:55
zeqPucho: without root, you're probably not going to be able to fix it, so your only recourse is probably reflashing03:55
ShadowJK/home ?03:55
ShadowJKyeah agreed03:55
ShadowJKAlso it's just sensible to start from clean install when you get secondhand n90003:56
zeqI'm off to sleep myself now too...03:56
Puchothank u03:56
* ShadowJK makes second attempt at stop irc and begin sleep.. curse this n900, irc in bed is evil03:57
zeqfreemangordon: linaro-4.6-2012.7 has built qt okay. I've also patched it for 4.7, enabling 4.7 to be used for building apps against it.03:58
* zeq knows what ShadowJK means03:58
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jon_yzeq: what is cssu-thumb?04:01
jon_yinfobot: ~cssu-thumb04:01
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RiDinfobot is dead04:01
RiDdumb bot04:02
jon_yok, nvm, google told me about cssu-thumb04:02
jon_ythis one?04:02
jon_ya special kernel (kernel-cssu) based on top of kernel-power 5004:03
jon_ydoes not work on n900 being the High Secure device04:04
jon_yaw so close04:04
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jon_yzeq: does thumb2 kernel require all userland to be thumb2 also?04:08
jon_yor is it more like sse/sse2 on the desktop?04:09
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jonwilkerio: ping09:26
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DocScrutinizer05~rootsh is <reply><ShadowJK> rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -")10:37
infobot...but rootsh is already something else...10:37
infobotit has been said that rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:, or
DocScrutinizer05~rootsh is also <ShadowJK> rootsh gives you "sudo gainroot", to get root privs but user environment (similar as "su"), and "root", which gives you root privs root env (similar to "su -")10:38
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0510:38
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keriojon_y: thumb2 is an instruction set, the cortex A8 could run stuff with that instruction set, but there are some hardware problems that have to be worked around, in the kernel and in the linker10:43
kerioif you have the workaround in the kernel, and your linker is new enough, you can run thumb2 binaries with no problem10:44
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kerio(except that the workaround for it requires doing something that causes a bit of performance loss)10:45
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DocScrutinizer05and no, it's definitely no solution for crammed rootfs10:48
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jon_ykerio: what kind of loss?11:09
Hurrianjon_y, "and also flushes the branch target cache at every context switch."11:12
Hurrianit doesn't seem like a big performance hit, and  the reduced size of thumb binaries weighs it out11:13
jon_yok, don't thread on thumb211:14
jon_ygot it :)11:15
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: optify *all* the things! _ò/11:19
DocScrutinizer05kerio: eh?11:20
jon_ycool, can I have optified Perl too? :)11:21
jon_y5.16 please11:21
jon_ywell, I had ln -sv /opt/stuff /usr/local now11:22
jon_yworks well enough11:22
jon_ysometimes, apps are too clever for their own good and this fails11:22
keriopython has a ton of bindmounts for that11:24
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DocScrutinizer05yeah >:-(11:26
DocScrutinizer05spamming my mount11:26
keriobindmounts are grrrrrrreat!11:26
DocScrutinizer05it's about time to get a smarter ,ount command, that filters output11:26
keriomount | grep -v bind11:27
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trumeeis it possible to find out how much warranty is left on my N900?11:38
trumeei have lost the proof of purchase :(11:38
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DocScrutinizer05then it's getting difficult11:46
zeqtrumee: unless you're prepared for a battle (to get a replacement or more likely demand a refund) the warranty is pretty worthless.  Nokia doesn't care about N900 customers. :( That said, I've never needed proof of purchase at a Nokia Care Centre, as long as your phone isn't reported stolen you should be okay.11:46
DocScrutinizer05Nokia has a webpage to check based on serial#, but I doubt that is accurate for devices sold late11:47
DocScrutinizer05also what zeq said11:47
DocScrutinizer05trumee: generally I think there's nokia warranty and there's legal warranty. Both are unrelated. You claim your legal warranty at your shop/seller, based on whatever the laws in your country. Independently Nokia offered a 2(?) year manufacturer guarantee, which is basically void by now I'd say11:50
DocScrutinizer05sellers tend to send their customers to manufacturer for claiming warranty. They MUSTN'T11:52
jon_ybtw, anybody know where the sdcard automounter script is located at?11:52
jon_yI'd like to use ext3 card11:52
DocScrutinizer05get CSSU11:52
jon_yhow is it related to cssu?11:52
jon_yiirc atm it wants vfat and only vfat mmc111:53
DocScrutinizer05well, CSSU has a vastly improved "automounter"11:53
DocScrutinizer05that mounts wirtually *all*11:53
jon_yI have cssu enabled, how do I find out if the cssu automounter is working?11:53
jon_yah, I see my alternate easy debian partition11:54
trumeezeq: is it expensive to replace the usb port at Nokia Care centre?11:54
jon_ylooks like its already working11:54
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: thanks so much for working on cssu11:55
zeqtrumee: that's something they won't do.  There are people who will, or you can DIY11:55
trumeei am a bit wary of walking into a local phone shop who has never seen an N900 before11:55
DocScrutinizer05trumee: get photo printouts of11:56
infoboti heard usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)11:56
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trumeeDocScrutinizer05: i dont have the tools to replace the usb port11:56
zeqtrumee: it's good to be wary.  unless you know they're good, I wouldn't trust a random local phone repairer.11:56
trumeemy phone only charges using the computer these days.11:57
DocScrutinizer05but you have a printer? then take a paper with the photos to your local repair shoppee11:57
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DocScrutinizer05trumee: that's highly unlikely any USB receptacle problem11:57
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: i have reflashed it, it is not a software issue11:57
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: btw, a side effect of all visible partitions is that the tracker will look through ALL of them11:58
jon_ykind of painful if you have a large easy debian install11:58
vi_DocScrutinizer05: o/11:58
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: sounds like a flaw in tracker conf. We might need to address it in CSSU11:58
jon_ywell, iirc there is a built in list of places to track already11:58
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: but you can tweak tracker settings easily yourself11:58
jon_yso I just added "/" to the exclude list and redo the index11:59
jon_yturns out it works properly11:59
vi_jon_y: Install the trackercfg application11:59
jon_yI will do that, thanks11:59
vi_jon_y: It makes changing tracker ignore folders etc nice and easy11:59
DocScrutinizer05you already got cssu, iirc it also has a fixed trackerd which actually _obeys_ the blacklists ;-)11:59
DocScrutinizer05stock trackerd has a bug there12:00
jon_yI was wondering why an extra entry showed up in the file browser util after a cssu update :)12:00
* jon_y just reflashed the n90012:00
vi_also, contrary to popular belief do not turn on 'low memory mode' or throttling.12:00
DocScrutinizer05err, not?12:00
vi_Let tracker do it's thing quickly and be done with it.12:01
DocScrutinizer05throttling seems fine here12:01
DocScrutinizer05though I forbid tracker to index when on battery12:01
vi_Throttling DOES work, however it takes longer for tracker to finish.12:01
DocScrutinizer05feck tracker12:02
vi_I want to install openmode kernel on my n95012:03
trumeeis it possible to get imei via xterm?12:03
vi_Do I only flash the kernel or do I need to flash the emmc etc as well?12:03
DocScrutinizer05a concept designed for >2GHz >1GB RAM desktop PCs, brought to embedded as a fake alternative filesystem12:03
DocScrutinizer05trumee: yes12:03
DocScrutinizer05trumee: e.g with pnatd12:04
vi_trumee: Yes, there is a dbus call.  SOmething else as well, cannot remember the name.12:04
jon_yalso, any util to disable the update apt db on internet connection?12:04
jon_yits annoying to find out you can't use apt right after connecting to wifi12:04
DocScrutinizer05and sth like AT+CMGR or whatever the cmd12:04
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/SIM Phone.Sim.get_imsi ?12:05
DocScrutinizer05sounds good12:05
vi_jon_y: gconftool -s --type int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 999999912:05
jon_ycool, thanks12:05
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: nope this one, dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei12:05
vi_sets check interval to like 30 years or something.12:06
DocScrutinizer05vi_: that's insane12:06
DocScrutinizer05you don't wanna do that12:06
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DocScrutinizer05though 9999999 isn't exactly 30 years and mostly fine12:07
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DocScrutinizer05I added some caveats to the wiki entry in "customizing"12:07
jon_yI'll run update when I want to :)12:08
DocScrutinizer05which boils down to "1 year in seconds is fine, using MAXINT is going to mess up things"12:08
vi_ERROR: APE algorithm has to be provided to flash all the subimages12:08
vi_DocScrutinizer05: it was hyperbole.  It is not really 30 years.12:09
jon_ybtw, updating cssu should still be done in the Application Manager?12:09
vi_jon_y: YES!12:09
vi_despite what some people say12:09
jon_ygood yes, I'll need to remember that12:09
jon_yapt-get for everything else12:09
DocScrutinizer05CSSU does NOT support, and *deprecates*, fapman12:09
jon_ythe other application manager?12:10
jon_yFast Application Manager?12:10
DocScrutinizer05using apt-get should be mostly safe on CSSU, as long as you don't do autoremove12:10
DocScrutinizer05and better stay away from dist-upgrade (and maybe also upgrade)12:11
vi_DocScrutinizer05: can you point me to somthing that will tell me how to flash open mode kernel on my n950?12:11
jon_ywhat will go wrong with upgrade and dist-upgrade?12:11
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: commonly (formerly) known as fapman12:11
DocScrutinizer05vi_: a mini-howto on my server12:12
jon_yvi_: I want one too :|12:12
DocScrutinizer05vi_: ask in #harmattan12:12
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys openmode12:12
infobotFactoid search of 'openmode' by key returned no results.12:12
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues openmode12:12
infobotFactoid search of 'openmode' by value (1): aegis-no-thanks.12:13
infobotwell, aegis-no-thanks is, or
vi_I have the kernel, however I cannot seem to flash the sucker.12:14
vi_flasher -k ./zImage- --flash-only=kernel -f -R12:15
vi_does not work.12:15
vi_it says:12:15
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: meh, tracker behaves decently now that i told it to only index a couple of directories12:15
kerioalso, the automounter means that i can't easily unmount from h-e-n :(12:16
DocScrutinizer05this will stop as soon as you got 20GB of mp3 on your MyDocs ;-P12:16
kerioi've got 1612:16
trumeeuggh, quoted 75 pounds to replace usb port12:16
keriomixed mp3/aac in m4a12:16
DocScrutinizer05trumee: that sounds quite reasonable12:17
DocScrutinizer05I doubt they'll keep this offer though12:17
DocScrutinizer05most likely obsolete12:18
DocScrutinizer05if not, please let us all know12:18
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DocScrutinizer05trumee: but again, if your device is charging from PC, then your USB *IS* ok12:19
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: why does it fail from the wall charger?12:19
DocScrutinizer05your wallcharger defect?12:19
vi_DocScrutinizer05: ERROR: APE algorithm has to be provided to flash all the subimages12:19
vi_^DAFUQ this means?12:19
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is there a way to forcibly enable all buttons in h-e-n? it would be useful if i'm using an external power source12:19
DocScrutinizer05vi_:  ask in #harmattan, known problem with newer NOLOs12:19
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: no it charges my second N900 fine12:19
vi_DocScrutinizer05: but they are a flock of dicks.12:20
DocScrutinizer05who's "they"?12:20
DocScrutinizer05kerio: no12:21
DocScrutinizer05kerio: use scripts & xterm12:21
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trumeedamn cant find any website for a shop in london12:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: k :(12:22
infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/12:23
kerioinfobot: oh you12:23
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, infobot is me, // The original infobot is no more, it has been replaced by the latest version of blootbot, accompanied by a rename back to infobot // apt/ibot/infobot/purl is now an infobot run by TimRiker12:23
DocScrutinizer05~tell kerio about hostmode-powered12:25
infoboti heard hostmode-powered is
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the thing is, it doesn't really work for stuff that requires more than vboost can provide to work12:27
jonwilkerio: ping12:27
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jonwilYou were asking about hildon-welcome before?12:28
jonwil looks like the code for it12:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: for those, i just dick around randomly until it works :)12:28
DocScrutinizer05kerio: then connect the Y-cable to N900 *after* you've hit "VBoost"12:30
jonwilalthough I think you were actually thinking of osso-startup-wizard as the one that runs the first time you power up the phone :)12:30
jonwilAnyone know who has been doing work on alternate kernels for Maemo5 and/or on improving the WiFi driver?12:31
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vi_Is there no way to flash this thing without using that bloody navifirm program to steal firmwares from nokia servers.12:40
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: alternative kernels: mainly Kernel-Power, now pali's domain. WiFi drivers: lxp?12:42
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: no, but still that's #harmattan topic12:43
DocScrutinizer05vi_: since otherwise my answer should've been "What? use flasher-3.5, see ~flashing!"12:44
vi_DocScrutinizer05: w00t! I have PERMANENTLY invalidated my warrenty!12:47
DocScrutinizer05you've been warned, haven't you?12:48
vi_DocScrutinizer05: oooh. yes.12:49
DocScrutinizer05vi_: still a #harmattan topic, but I think it's reversible nevertheless12:49
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jonwil~seen lxp12:53
infobotlxp is currently on #maemo (19h 57m 53s), last said: 'i am personally using a version of the driver based on a little bit newer wireless-testing with some rewritten patches i made after submitting the patches to the kernel mailinglist, but it doesn't contain the injection patches'.12:53
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vi_jonwil: You know about lxp right?13:01
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vi_They say he only listens to bluegrass music...13:02
vi_jonwil: He wrote the injection drivers for the N900.13:02
vi_jonwil: He was hired to do it by the original backtrack linux on n900 people.13:03
vi_They never paid him.13:03
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vi_So he released his driver to the maemo community.13:03
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jonwilok, basically I am trying to find out if anyone is actually doing any improvements to the N900 WiFi driver (e.g. for CSSU or otherwise) so I can see about contributing some info to that13:18
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jon_yjonwil: the only possibly modified wifi driver I've seen is in kernel power, that packet injection driver13:27
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Hurriantechnically it's not in kernel-power, it's an out of tree module13:28
Hurrianiirc powersave is the blocker for merging13:28
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jonwilok, it sounds like no-one is really doing any meaningful work on the driver then13:31
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vi_jonwil: That about sums it up.13:43
jonwilin that case I wont bother looking into wl1251-cal13:43
vi_jonwil: lxp, while more than happy to point you in the right direction is thoroughly sick of the whole thing.13:43
jonwilI have no kernel skills :P13:44
freemangordonzeq: did you succeed to build the toolchain?13:44
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freemangordonjonwil: want to help with BME stuff?13:44
jonwilreverse engineering you mean?13:44
freemangordonno, coding13:44
freemangordonI think you already did a wonderful RE job on BME13:45
jonwilexcept we still dont have the math to correctly calculate some figures like temprature13:45
vi_jonwil: No kernel skills?  Are you shitting me?13:45
jonwilI have never done Linux kernel dev13:45
jonwilbeyond compiling the kernel on my Gentoo box13:45
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freemangordonjonwil: I will do it when we have the other stuff (i.e. charging) in place13:46
jonwilwhat bits of BME is coding needed on?13:46
freemangordondid you check on my repo?13:46
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freemangordonjust a minute13:47
freemangordonjonwil: ^^^13:47
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freemangordonit needs charging support (the new driver in kp51) and temp reading (in libbmeipc)13:48
jonwilok, well I cant help with the charging bit13:48
jonwilor the temprature bit13:49
jonwilso I cant really help13:49
freemangordonjonwil: you can, it just needs reading from sysfs, the driver handles all the other stuff13:50
jonwilMight go back into the maw that is the connectivity UI layer :)13:50
jonwili.e. widgets, control panels etc13:50
freemangordonaah, where is Pali :(13:50
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: kernel charger driver handles all the stuff needed for charging, ain't?13:51
jonwilyeah I wanna talk to pali too :P13:51
freemangordonso userland only reads the current status and reports it through hal/dbus?13:51
jonwilI think I might consider doing further work on my wlan priority stuff13:52
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: basically yes13:54
zeqfreemangordon: yes.  I've built linaro-4.6-2012.7 and linaro-4.7-2012.7.  The 4.6 toolchain sucessfully builds qt, 4.7 is still broken, but the gcc bug report now has it narrowed down to a single commit.13:54
freemangordonjonwil: see DocScrutinizer05's answer, so nothing more but reading the sysfs values13:55
freemangordonzeq: a pity13:56
povbotBug 53135: was not found.13:56
freemangordonzeq: I am going to build the latest fennec, what was that switch you wanr me about? something about webrt.13:57
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jierohi, all13:57
jonwilnot really interested in BME work, I think I might consider doing further investigations into my wlan priority stuff :)13:57
jieroI have problem of the portrait mode, it don't work on my N90013:57
freemangordonjonwil: ok :)13:58
vi_jiero: thats because the n900 is a landscape device.13:58
freemangordonzeq: and why is that?13:58
freemangordonand WTF webrtc is?13:59
zeqfreemangordon: they've enabled webrtc by default, whereas it was disabled previously.13:59
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zeqit just hasn't been ported yet13:59
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zeqit's a real-time communications layer. like SIP over the web.13:59
keriojiero: because 1) portrait sucks13:59
jierovi_ I used portrait mode after instatlled CSSU . it is lost,13:59
freemangordonzeq: ok14:00
jierokerio: so it was removed?14:00
keriono, it's still there14:00
kerioyou have to enable it in transitions.ini14:00
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kerio"cssu features" is a neat gui for stuff like that14:00
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jonwiljust wish more people had knowledge of/interest in icd14:01
keriojonwil: mostly people just want icd to go away, i think14:02
* freemangordon feels in the same way re BME :)14:02
jonwilok, so what exactly are the end-user benefits of replacing BME anyway?14:02
keriojonwil: easier USB hostmode14:03
jonwili.e. why do it other than "because we can" or "because its open"14:03
kerioif you don't rely on BME for battery indicator, you can get one while doing freaky stuff that make USB engineers cry in their sleep14:03
freemangordoncorrect capacity measurement14:03
kerio*a working one14:03
keriofreemangordon: "correct", you mean14:03
freemangordonI mean "the real values"14:04
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kerioso yeah, fuck bme14:04
vi_jonwil: bme spams the i2c bus and does not use it properly.14:05
vi_jonwil: It is a total kludge of a program.14:05
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DocScrutinizer05bme IS an abomination14:06
DocScrutinizer05but it's not correct to say it spams the i2c-bus and does not use it properly14:07
DocScrutinizer05it's rather like i2c device in itself has some compatibiltiy issues by design, when it comes to kernel modules like bq27x0014:08
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DocScrutinizer05and bme is using i2c device14:09
DocScrutinizer05since there never been stock kernel modzles for bq27200 and bq2415014:09
jonwilas for getting rid of icd, it should be possible IF people wanted to put some effort into it. Firstly one would need to start by replacing the WiFi bits using e.g. icd-network-wpa and the info I posted and stuff. Then one would need to replace the other plugins (i.e. GPRS plugin) then after that one can replace ICD2 itself. Biggest issue is dealing with osso-wlan-security :)14:09
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jonwilunderstanding what that mess of a daemon (eapd) does14:09
jonwilor rather, what it talks to14:09
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jonwilReplacing ICD2 wouldn't be hard if people cared enough14:13
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jonwilpeople with the coding skills to help :)14:13
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vi_I think it would be a hoot to replace browserd with somthing lighter.14:14
kerioor just update it14:14
keriothere's been plenty of gecko versions14:14
vi_freemangordon: You mentioned you have compiled microb-engine for thumb2.14:15
jonwilbiggest issue with replacing gecko is breaking flash, maps and stuff14:15
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jonwili.e. if you use a newer gecko you need to make sure its still ABI compatible14:15
vi_if I apt-get it, will that pull ALL the dependencies or will I still have to copy libc++ or somthing to the appropriate place?14:15
vi_kerio: That is not the point.  I do not need the whole gecko engine sitting in RAM on the offchance I might want to read my txt messages.14:16
freemangordonvi_: and it is in thumb repo, latest cssu-thumb update includes it14:20
freemangordonvi_: everything is in place14:20
freemangordoni.e. libs, dependencies, etc14:20
freemangordonand later i will push fennec in the repo, but you MUST have latest cssu-thumb installed14:21
freemangordonvi_: ^^^14:21
vi_freemangordon: Ok14:22
vi_imma gonna doit.14:22
freemangordonwhat? I am not native inglish speaker as you may know?14:22
vi_I am going to do it.14:22
zeqfreemangordon: I'm currently building fennec with linaro-4.7, and patched qt-4.714:23
freemangordonzeq: patched qt-4.7?14:24
zeqdid I ask previously about whether we could upgrade to qt-4.8?14:24
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zeqqt-4.7 needs a few fixes for gcc-4.714:24
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zeqnothing abi breaking14:25
freemangordonzeq: hmm, what fixes?14:25
zeqhold on14:25
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freemangordonaah, ok14:28
* freemangordon is going to have some lunch14:28
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vi_When I type in apt-get upgrade I see loads of stuff with -203 on the end.  DO I want to upgrade those?14:29
vi_like 20 packages.14:30
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KiborgMy N900 is caught in infinite restart loop.14:30
* DocScrutinizer05 welcomes Kiborg and his bootloop14:31
vi_Kiborg: 1. DId you install speed/batterypatch?14:31
DocScrutinizer05it's actually flashing day14:31
vi_Kiborg: 2. Did you make a backup with backupmenu?14:31
vi_Kiborg: 3. What was the last thing you did in order to cause this reboot loop.14:32
DocScrutinizer05he downloaded huge stuff (some p0rn ;-P ) from youtoube14:32
vi_Kiborg: The answer is disable watchdogs, restore backup from backup menu.14:32
DocScrutinizer05seems to me it might have crammed /14:32
DocScrutinizer05or /var/*14:33
DocScrutinizer05or sth like that14:33
vi_then re-enable watchdogs.14:33
zeqlots of speculation! ;)14:33
Hurrianreflash rootfs, the end.14:33
vi_zeq: s/speculation/experiance14:33
Kiborgyes I have speed patch as sugessted by cssu but i did that half a year ago. the last thing I did was download a clip uising CuteTube-QML, that I am using for a year probably.14:33
vi_Kiborg: FFS.14:33
Hurrianmeh, probably something in the FSes corrupted14:34
DocScrutinizer05speed patch as suggested by cssu????????14:34
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Hurrianmost if not all script-based *-patches are highly discouraged14:34
DocScrutinizer05I don't even know friggin speedpatch14:34
vi_DocScrutinizer05: lol.14:34
vi_DocScrutinizer05: It is great.14:35
DocScrutinizer05is that the hoax of this script kiddie14:35
zeqit changes the cgroup settings14:35
Hurrian(which script kiddie?)14:35
zeqAs I recall14:36
vi_There are 2 scripts.  Speedpatch and batterypatch.14:36
DocScrutinizer05yeah, both BS par excellance I heard14:36
zeqbatterypatch is just a cpufreq policy daemon14:36
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DocScrutinizer05and NO, CSSU DID NOT recommend them!14:36
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DocScrutinizer05zeq: whatever it is, iirc it can only be some random piece of script picked up and klufged together by somebody with no clue14:38
DocScrutinizer05initial stages of that *-patch development were epic. Doing *obviously* nonsensical stuff14:38
DocScrutinizer05and arguing about basic knowledge14:39
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DocScrutinizer05never ever looked at them since then14:39
zeqbatterypatch is just a set of dbus scripts14:39
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* NIN101 never understood why you would something like speedpatch in the first place. Everything just works here and isn't sluggish etc.14:40
HurrianNIN101, placebo effect14:40
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and doing messy shit to sqlite database isn't helping on it14:40
Hurrianof course a N900 is nice and snappy after a reboot, no matter what crap you installed14:40
Hurrianafter 5 days, that's a different story14:41
DocScrutinizer05not here14:41
NIN101I reboot every day.14:41
HurrianDocScrutinizer05, that is the challenge14:41
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DocScrutinizer05t900:~# uptime14:42
DocScrutinizer05 13:50:51 up 112 days, 14:46, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0014:42
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DocScrutinizer05it gets sluggish as soon as you run into swap fragmentation14:42
DocScrutinizer05known effect14:42
DocScrutinizer05known workarounds14:43
DocScrutinizer05known root cause - well kinda14:43
DocScrutinizer05since my systems are not RAM heavy, it rarely ever runs into swapping14:44
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DocScrutinizer05of course crap like *-patch helps a lot to make it fragment swap even *faster*14:45
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DocScrutinizer05as do nonsensical wallpapers etc, widgets, whatnot14:45
zeqcompletely true14:46
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK's reswap script would actually help14:53
DocScrutinizer05as does an occasional `killall browserd`14:53
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lufI have a problem with evolution-data-server. I want to patch it but when I even only recompile and install it (evolution-data-server-addressbook, libebook, libedata-book, libedataserver) then the Calendar starts to randomly crashing (signal 11).14:58
lufShit. I recompiled another package :D14:59
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vi_luf: lolwut15:05
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vi_apt-get install microb-engine15:11
vi_Now system boots to hildon then INSTA REBOOTS.15:12
lufSo back to the ground.15:13
lufMaybe I recompiled wrong package or not.15:14
zeqvi_: did you install the thumb compiled microb-engine without a thumb kernel?15:14
kerio*pat pat*15:14
lufNow I recompiled the right one and the same error occured.15:14
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keriofreemangordon: ping15:17
vi_zeq: I have the thumb kernel from cssu-tumb15:19
vi_and now I have a non booting device.  This blows goatse15:20
keriooh well, just restore your backupmenu backup15:20
vi_Backup menu!15:20
vi_unfortunatley my /opt partition backup is 1.5GB.  It takes a while to restore.15:21
vi_wat what?15:23
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kerioit's a lot!15:24
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vi_I have shit symlinked all over the place.15:27
vi_frankly it is a mess.15:27
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kerioso you can't even blame freemangordon15:27
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vi_kerio: blame him for what?15:28
keriofor borking your hildon15:28
vi_I was the one who typed in apt-get install15:28
vi_also my symlinking crazy shit all over the place has nothing to do with this15:28
kerioyeah but it was his package15:28
keriofrom his repo15:28
kerioor something15:28
vi_besides, I have just disabled watchdogs and will now fix the problem.15:29
vi_his repo that is 'so fucking experimental it will rip your dick clean off so do not even enable it'.15:29
vi_I was warned.15:29
zeqworks for me :)15:30
keriowhy do we need watchdogs in the first place?15:30
zeqto be fair though, my system is even more experimental (libstdc++ and libgcc_s from gcc4.7)15:31
vi_zeq gives no fucks.15:32
vi_ne is on the edge of sanity.15:32
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zeqI just mean, because it works here, doesn't mean it will anywhere else15:32
zeqI've got backupmenu ;)15:33
keriobackupmenu ^_^15:33
vi_zeq: that is the beauty of maemo.  The fact it is soo customisable means there are infinite ways to fuck it up.15:33
keriowould swap be better on a really fast µSD?15:33
vi_kerio: what is a really fast uSD?15:33
vi_(warning: this is obviously a trick question)15:34
vi_what is a *really fast* uSD15:34
Hurrianvi_, something with >4MB/s random write?15:35
vi_Damn hurrian.15:35
kerioyeah, something like that15:35
keriosequential write is kinda useless for swap15:35
Hurrianget a sandisk?15:35
vi_I was hovering above the 'AWOOOOOOOOGAA! General ignorance detected' Alarm button.15:35
lufWith eds I did: tar xzf evolution-data-server_1.4.2.1-20100623+0m5.tar.gz; cd evolution-data-server_1.4.2.1; dpkg-buildpackage15:36
vi_kerio: Hurrian is correct.  A sandisk 'class 4' will beat the shit out of pretty much all so called 'class 10' uSD cards.15:36
lufThen I install on the N900 .deb packages and shudown/boot it up. After that Calendar occasionaly fall down with signal 11.15:37
lufAny idea what should be wrong?15:37
vi_basically the whole 'class' thing is irrelevent.15:38
Hurrianluf, ask cssu team for tips on packaging for fremantle15:38
Hurrianalso, you may have left -mthumb on15:38
keriovi_: sadly, even a sandisk mobile ultra (class 4) only achieves at most 2.7MB/s for random writes15:38
kerio(512KB ones, mind you)15:38
vi_It is like measuring the viscosity of motorbike suspension oil with SAE measurements.  Complete nonsense.15:39
keriofor 4K ones, you get barely 1MB/s with a normal sandisk class 415:39
kerioanyway, still slower than the eMMC15:40
kerioi think15:40
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, you good at openwrt? :P15:40
zeqMohammadAG: I have a custom openwrt build, maybe I can help?15:42
zeqor maybe it's *too* custom :P15:43
MohammadAGzeq, I flashed OpenWRT on my dusty WRT350N15:43
MohammadAGI'm planning to install it in my car (:P) with a 3G modem plugged into the USB port15:43
kerioooh i want help too15:43
kerioi have a wrt610n15:43
MohammadAGI just realized I'm actually connected through it...15:43
kerioso far i only installed ddwrt on it, but it's kinda bad i think15:44
MohammadAGanyway, ifup ppp3g (my interface name) doesn't seem to do anything15:44
MohammadAGkerio, ddwrt doesn't work on my router (v2 board), but openwrt seems nice15:44
kerioddwrt is only half opensource15:44
MohammadAGthen go openwrt :p15:44
zeqMohammadAG: anything in the log?15:45
kerioi have no idea if it's properly supported15:45
MohammadAGbesides a wrong date15:45
kerioanyway, #openwrt maybe?15:45
zeqprobably the better place :)15:46
vi_R&D flag, will this remove act-dead mode?15:47
MohammadAGafaik yes15:47
keriowhat's act-dead?15:47
zeqMohammadAG: you need to find out what char device the chat script is running on.  Make sure it's opening the modem.15:47
Hurriankerio, charging only mode15:47
MohammadAGzeq, I configured it to use /dev/ttyS015:48
MohammadAGI can seem to cat that, ttyS1 returns IO error15:49
zeqcan you install minicom or something?15:49
MohammadAG1MB left on / :/15:50
zeqprobably better take it over to #openwrt though15:50
MohammadAGI'm on there15:50
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vi_kerio: fixed!15:53
vi_also, biltong+chilli sauce==win15:53
zeqvi_: what was broken?15:54
vi_zeq: libgcc15:54
MohammadAGzeq, that place seems dead as ever15:54
vi_1. Disable watchdogs. 2. Update libgcc. 3.enable WD.  4. update system.15:55
zeqlots of people on there, but it is *really* quiet!15:55
zeqvi_: I thought it might be15:55
MohammadAGso.. how do I dial with minicom? :P15:55
zeqATD I think15:56
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vi_browserd, still hogging all the ram.15:56
zeqif it uses AT commands15:56
lufATDT - tone; ATDP - pulse;15:56
zeqah yes15:56
MohammadAGit should, it works fine on Ubuntu15:56
zeqdusty memory15:57
lufBut maybe ATD choose one of them as primary I don't remember.15:57
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DocScrutinizer05I think it has some initstring?15:58
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MohammadAGI don't get this, I turned on echo in minicom but I get nothing15:59
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vi_PULSE DIALLING?? Does the network even still support that?15:59
lufI have no clue for another countries ;)15:59
* vi_ recalls a time when you could dial by repeated slamming the handset up/down.15:59
lufMaybe in cenral Africa ... :D16:00
zeqMohammadAG: are you sure the device is ttyS0?16:00
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: hey, you did it wrong then ;-d16:00
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zeqnot ttyACM0 or something?16:00
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MohammadAGbut minicom shows /dev/ttyS116:00
zeqwell that won't help :)16:01
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: configure your minicom properly16:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, any tips?16:01
DocScrutinizer05ctrl-a z16:02
zeqI recall there being shortcut keys16:02
zeqyes that's it16:02
zeqdamn dusty memory :P16:02
zeqI've not used minicom for >10 years!16:02
DocScrutinizer05rather ctrl-a o, as a shortcut16:02
lufctrl-a h is help or menu or something like that.16:02
lufzeq: the same here :D16:03
MohammadAGz is help16:03
DocScrutinizer05minicom even has a addrbook16:04
DocScrutinizer05for numbers to fial16:04
MohammadAGok, configured16:04
MohammadAGI still don't get how to pass commands to it16:04
DocScrutinizer05to what?16:04
DocScrutinizer05ctrl-a <char>16:05
DocScrutinizer05everything else goes to serial16:05
MohammadAGno, I mean AT commands16:05
DocScrutinizer05minicom doesn't take AT commands16:05
lufFucking Maemo SDK. It seems I find the root cause with eds recompilation.16:05
zeqMohammadAG: you just type them16:05
DocScrutinizer05it's not a modem16:05
MohammadAGzeq, and nothing happens?16:05
zeqtry atz16:05
zeqyou're probably not connected to the modem16:06
DocScrutinizer05if you type AT commands, minicom will send them out to serial, and if there's a modem on serial it will (or will not) react on AT command16:06
zeqmake sure your serial settings are correct16:06
zeqflow control etc16:06
* MohammadAG tries minicom on iPhone16:07
DocScrutinizer05via USB?16:07
MohammadAGno, SSH16:07
zeqMohammadAG: did you get anything in the kernel log when you inserted the device about which serial device it is?16:08
MohammadAGzeq, no, dmesg is vague on openwrt16:08
lufThanks Pali and DocScrutinizer05 for help in finding the problem.16:08
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MohammadAGUSB Serial support registered for GSM modem (1-port)16:08
MohammadAGusbcore: registered new interface driver option16:08
MohammadAGoption: v0.7.2:USB Driver for GSM modems16:08
lufThe SDK has enabled thumb as default.16:08
lufSo it leads to the crashes when I only recompile evolution-data-server.16:08
lufI disabled it and now everything seems ok.16:09
DocScrutinizer05I posted a general warning just yesterday iirc16:09
lufYes. That helped me.16:09
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: ^^^16:09
MohammadAGI noticed on the wikis :p16:09
MohammadAGerr, MLs16:09
zeqMohammadAG: does cat /proc/devices tell you anything?16:09
DocScrutinizer05'your' old thumbie problem16:10
DocScrutinizer05it's actually generic16:10
MohammadAG zeq16:10
zeqttyACM probably16:11
MohammadAGzeq, it's not in /dev16:11
DocScrutinizer05err wait, you are trying to get a local /dev/tty* via ssh via wlan?16:11
* DocScrutinizer05 feel a headache near16:11
zeqif you're not running udev you'll have to make the device node16:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, the problem is on my router16:12
MohammadAGmy router has a USB port which I plugged a USB modem into16:12
MohammadAGand it's running OpenWRT, a linux distro for routers16:12
DocScrutinizer05and minicom on your router16:12
DocScrutinizer05makes sense16:12
DocScrutinizer05should be /dev/ttyUSB or ttyACM or sth16:13
DocScrutinizer05but only if udev creates that, first you need to check syslog if it gets detected at all16:13
zeqdevice major 166 and 188 respectively16:13
zeqmknod mknod /dev/ttyACM0 c 166 016:14
MohammadAGshouldn't it remove the lines from /proc/devices on device unplug?16:14
DocScrutinizer05fsckng pastebin sets mimetype to txt :-/16:14
zeqonly *one* mknod, obviously :)16:15
DocScrutinizer05browser offers to download or open in editor16:15
zeq/proc/devices is what the kernel knows about, not userspace unless you have udev running16:15
DocScrutinizer05yep, the kernel driver for usb tty will need a device node in /dev/16:16
DocScrutinizer05you could live happily with static devicenode16:16
MohammadAGroot@OpenWrt:~# cat /dev/ttyACM016:16
MohammadAGcat: can't open '/dev/ttyACM0': No such device16:16
DocScrutinizer05mknod /dev/ttyACM0 c 166 016:17
MohammadAGread that line again16:17
MohammadAGNo such device, not no such file16:18
zeqmknod /dev/ttyUSB0 c 188 016:18
MohammadAGroot@OpenWrt:~# mknod /dev/ttyACM0 c 166 016:18
MohammadAGroot@OpenWrt:~# cat /dev/ttyACM016:18
MohammadAGcat: can't open '/dev/ttyACM0': No such device16:18
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DocScrutinizer05modprobe dafaq16:18
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DocScrutinizer05will bind to that devicenode16:18
zeqMohammadAG: if it's listed in /proc/devices, that should work16:18
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MohammadAGzeq, it doesn't :P16:19
* MohammadAG starts over -> reboot16:19
DocScrutinizer05good plan16:19
DocScrutinizer05check what kernel module gets loaded when youplug in the modem16:19
MohammadAGnope, still doesn't work16:21
MohammadAG zeq DocScrutinizer0516:21
MohammadAGI feel I'm missing something16:21
zeqMohammadAG: did the ttyACM and ttyUSB devices only show in /proc/devices after insertion?16:21
DocScrutinizer05NO I don't want to open it with kwrite!!16:22
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, just curl it :p16:22
MohammadAG on Ubuntu16:22
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DocScrutinizer05dafaq I will16:22
MohammadAGzeq, I'll reboot again to check, it was plugged in from the start16:23
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: did you listen to me? toldya to check what kernel module gets loaded when you plug in the modem16:24
DocScrutinizer05you'll need 2 things for that: syslog/whatever, and plugging in the modem _after_ booting16:24
DocScrutinizer05lsmod might help as well16:24
MohammadAGzeq, no, they're there from bootup16:25
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, no new lines in dmesg after plugging in16:25
DocScrutinizer05now that's a bad thing16:25
DocScrutinizer05lsusb won't show anything either then16:25
zeqcan you try rmmod and insmod the driver?16:25
DocScrutinizer05only if he knows16:26
MohammadAGno lsusb16:26
DocScrutinizer05the driver16:26
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DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-21 15:18:33] <DocScrutinizer05> modprobe dafaq16:26
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-21 15:18:49] <DocScrutinizer05> will bind to that devicenode16:26
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vi_is it possible to stop the keyboard lights from spazzing out when using R&D mode?16:26
DocScrutinizer05errr, yes16:27
vi_errr, how?16:27
DocScrutinizer05there's a sysfs node to switch the hw on/off16:27
MohammadAG/etc/pm tab16:27
DocScrutinizer05don't ask me the friggin name16:27
MohammadAGand there's a config for bootup :p16:27
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, no modprobe, no dafaq16:27
DocScrutinizer05what a shite OS is THAT?16:28
MohammadAGis there a way to know the driver?16:28
zeqDocScrutinizer05: a very tiny one16:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, something that runs on 4MBs of flash16:28
DocScrutinizer05well, without modprobe you're fecked16:28
zeqMohammadAG: can you check which module is used on ubuntu and see if it's available on your openwrt?16:28
DocScrutinizer05unless the fools thought insmod is sufficient replacement16:28
zeqinsmod works16:28
MohammadAGthat's what I want to do16:29
zeqyou just have to deal with the dependencies yourself16:29
vi_DocScrutinizer05: that does allow keyboard lights to operate as normal right?16:29
MohammadAGvi_, yes16:29
MohammadAGzeq, I can't figure out which driver it's using16:29
MohammadAGis there a way to limit drivers by device ID?16:29
MohammadAGBus 001 Device 008: ID 19d2:0117 ZTE WCDMA Technologies MSM16:29
zeqMohammadAG: there should be a /sys entry to help you16:29
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: what will your desktop PC syslog say when you plug in modem there?16:30
DocScrutinizer05zeq: actually that too, but not on a system that's too tiny for modprobe ;-P16:30
DocScrutinizer05FSCKYOU pastebin16:31
zeqI meant in /sys on the ubuntu when the driver is loaded16:31
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: fool! paste your shite as proper html, not as mimetype txt!16:32
MohammadAGyour browser should handle raw text16:32
DocScrutinizer05YOUR browser should rething what's html16:33
DocScrutinizer05and what's mimetypes16:33
vi_what is 'sleep_ind' in pmconfig?16:33
MohammadAGthat's it16:33
MohammadAGif it's 1, change it to 016:33
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MohammadAGsave, reboot, or save and change the sysfs value16:33
DocScrutinizer05[ 9265.148196] usb 1-1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB016:34
vi_sleep_ind==sleep indicators.16:34
MohammadAGzeq, I don't know what path to check16:34
vi_I wonder if the hardware has to wake up to actuate the sleep indicators to indicate it was asleep.16:34
zeqMohammadAG: silly question, but do you have enough bus power?16:35
DocScrutinizer05the usual fuck I guess, with the modem pretending it's a memstick with windows drivers on it16:35
MohammadAGzeq, no idea :P16:35
MohammadAGthe modem lights up and initializes (red -> green) though16:35
zeqMohammadAG: that's probably ok then...?16:36
MohammadAGyeah, I remember it staying red on the N90016:36
vi_DocScrutinizer05: There is a linux program for toggling the USB mode of the usb stick.16:36
MohammadAGmodeswitch_usb afaik16:36
DocScrutinizer05eject even can do, usually16:36
fastaWhat is the motivation for open-source projects to make things hard to build?16:36
vi_fasta: It keeps the noobs out.16:36
DocScrutinizer05yes, modeswitch_* sounds correct16:37
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MohammadAGoh well, same shit16:37
fastavi_: I'd say it merely shows how much of a n00b the developers are.16:37
fastavi_: would you also say that's why they write pseudo-C instead of correct C?16:37
zeqMohammadAG: if it's not installed there probably is a pkg for it16:38
DocScrutinizer05though - what's pseudo-c?16:38
fastavi_: and why it requires a special version of gcc to compile, instead of just a whole range of compilers and at the very least the latest?16:38
MohammadAGzeq, if what isn't installed?16:38
zeqMohammadAG: but you should be able to tell if it has started as a memstick16:38
MohammadAGwell, I'd rather get dmesg to show stuff first16:38
fastaDocScrutinizer05: pseudo-C is code which is not portable, but runs due to pure luck on some architectures and operating systems.16:39
kguDo any of you guys remmeber how to only see photos taken by the camera in the photo-app? I see all kind of small icons and stuff too16:39
DocScrutinizer05fasta: :nod:16:39
fastaDocScrutinizer05: for example, all media players on Linux fall under that.16:39
zeqwhat does /proc/usb show16:39
MohammadAGI connected my N9 to the router, dmesg didn't change16:39
vi_kgu: In photo app settings there is a choice for 'show only camera' photos.16:39
DocScrutinizer05kgu: check tracker config16:39
vi_kgu: No, you cannot set it to use that by default.16:39
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zeq/proc/bus/usb ?16:40
fastaDocScrutinizer05: the player I am using now is just so completely wrong, it's not funny, yet it doesn't crash.16:40
MohammadAGzeq, empty dir16:40
zeqMohammadAG: if it's there16:40
zeqcat /proc/filesystems16:40
fastaDocScrutinizer05: Qemu is another project for which the same holds.16:40
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: are you sure the USB itself is supported on that *wrt?16:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, it provides power, it should work16:41
zeqDocScrutinizer05: it does support usb16:41
fastaDocScrutinizer05: you would think that Redhat employees would know how to write good code, right?16:41
DocScrutinizer05NO, definitely not16:41
DocScrutinizer05fasta: ^^^16:41
fastaDocScrutinizer05: so, I wonder how every single time everything which is done, is done completely wrong.16:41
DocScrutinizer05I mean, lennart is a redhat employee afaik ;-P16:41
zeqMohammadAG: you'll have to try to install lsusb I think16:42
MohammadAGzeq, I'm not sure which package it's in16:42
fastaDocScrutinizer05: there are a few actual professional applications which actually do work, but one can likely count them on two hands on the whole planet.16:42
fastaDocScrutinizer05: but that's only because I never have seen the code for those likely.16:43
fastaEven QT has some really weird ideas.16:43
zeqMohammadAG: you could try insmod usbdevfs first16:43
DocScrutinizer05some? SOME???16:43
fastaQT does #include <QtFoobar>16:43
fastaThat's certainly not following conventions.16:44
* DocScrutinizer05 points at qtm-sensors16:44
fastaDocScrutinizer05: so, what's the secret behind all this epic failure?16:44
DocScrutinizer0542  ;-D16:44
fastaDocScrutinizer05: is it just because it is free that they make it crappy on purpose?16:44
fastaDocScrutinizer05: or are they just born that stupid?16:44
fastaI have seen some commercial software which has null pointer exceptions in all the logs.16:45
zeqfasta: what am I missing? what's wrong with #include <QtFoobar>?16:45
fastaI asked about it and they said 'yeah, that's normal'.16:45
MohammadAGroot@OpenWrt:~# lsusb16:45
MohammadAGBus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub16:45
MohammadAGBus 001 Device 002: ID 0421:0518 Nokia Mobile Phones16:45
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: actually attaching a memstick first would tell you a lot about your USB16:45
fastazeq: #include <somestdcfeature>16:46
fastazeq: that's normal.16:46
fastazeq: or C++16:46
fastazeq: #include <mycompany.h>16:46
DocScrutinizer05well, #include <myname>.h seems pretty normal too16:47
fastazeq: there is just no excuse to not include the .h or .hpp or however you want to call it.16:47
fastaDocScrutinizer05: yes, that's normal.16:47
fastaBut even lots of GNU people don't know how to use their own fucking software configuration tool (autoconf).16:48
DocScrutinizer05nobody knows how to use friggin autoconf16:48
fastaglib has circular dependencies on pkg-config16:48
MohammadAGok, N9 mounted16:48
MohammadAGhad to install some kernel modules16:48
fastaDocScrutinizer05: I learned how to use it correctly, but yes, it was a pain.16:48
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: as a modem?16:49
MohammadAGno, mass storage device16:49
MohammadAGusb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB016:49
MohammadAGoption 1-1:1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected16:49
MohammadAGusb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB116:49
MohammadAGoption 1-1:1.2: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected16:49
MohammadAGusb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB216:49
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DocScrutinizer05usual shite exposing three(!) tty16:50
fastaDocScrutinizer05: you are somewhat older than me, I think. Don't you have some explanation which explains all the observed failures?16:50
DocScrutinizer05not a good one16:50
DocScrutinizer05except it seems to me it's related to youth16:50
MohammadAGok, so how do I test it again? :P16:50
fastaDocScrutinizer05: youth of the developers or of me?16:51
zeqfasta: Closest thing to an explaination would be limited knowledge or ignorance16:51
DocScrutinizer05kids learn coding nowadays before they learn reading16:51
DocScrutinizer05and bad habits stick16:51
zeqmost people have their area of focus16:51
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fastazeq: yeah, but it's really 99.999% which is ignorant.16:51
fastazeq: it kind of makes me look like an arrogant prick.16:51
DocScrutinizer05"screwit, it works!"16:51
fastaDocScrutinizer05: "worksforme"16:52
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-20 14:36:32] <vi_> FIQ: There is the right way, the wrong way and the DocScrutinizer05 way.  The DocScrutinizer05 way being like the right way, but even more correct.16:52
fasta(yes, it works for you, because you haven't heard of this thing called a "memory model" yet)16:52
fastaSequence point? Dude, get real!16:52
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: just quoting a matching post16:53
zeqfreemangordon: did you build latest fennec?16:53
fasta-pedantic -Werror? It's working, man!16:53
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keriowhy do usb modems feel the need to expose multiple tty ports?16:53
fastaIt uses 1000 times more CPU than needed? Yeah, who cares?16:53
keriohell, this one also acts as a usb ethernet card16:53
DocScrutinizer05kerio: idiocy?16:53
DocScrutinizer05kerio: one for AT commands, one for ppp, one for the fun16:54
keriothis one has only two, i think16:54
fastaOne has been designed for the NSA.16:54
kerioplus the fake ethernet16:54
fastaAll the people on Linux who say they have no working wireless should think again.16:55
zeqthey are for separate command channels I think16:55
fastaIt's just not working for them.16:55
fastaEchelon is working mighty fine.16:55
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DocScrutinizer05actually it might save you from implementing friggin mux07.xx16:55
zeqfreemangordon: I managed to build fennec with linaro-4.716:55
DocScrutinizer05actually it might save you from implementing friggin mux07.xx16:56
zeqI'll put the toolchains up now in the same place as before.16:56
fastaI wonder how one would feel working on a global spy system. You would be like Gestapo++.16:56
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DocScrutinizer05which would otherwise multiplex all the different chanels for cmd(AT), data, unsol response etc over just one tty16:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: what about the fake ethernet?16:57
DocScrutinizer05fake ethernet?16:57
zeqkerio: isn't that a packet interface?16:57
DocScrutinizer05you probably talk about the NIC that gets exposed for direct IP access to GSM stack16:57
zeqfor direct access16:57
keriothis usb card exposes two ttys and an ethernet16:57
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: so you got the magic 3 again16:58
keriothe two ttys *kinda* make sense16:59
DocScrutinizer05just one is a eth* so you don't need to mount a converter to the tty16:59
kerioyeah but how do i use it?16:59
DocScrutinizer05basically like any other NIC16:59
keriothe official software doesn't use it17:00
kerioat least on os x17:00
DocScrutinizer05yeah, they probably do 07.xx mux then, and ppp17:01
DocScrutinizer05usb modems are a PITA17:01
DocScrutinizer05thanks MohammadAG17:02
zeqMohammadAG: that doesn't look so bad17:02
DocScrutinizer05(for 1. line in that pastie matching my post)17:02
zeqnearly there :)17:02
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MohammadAGthat's ttyUSB217:02
MohammadAG0 and 1 didn't work17:03
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zeqMohammadAG: I suggest you use minicom to interactively connect17:03
zeqthey tweak the chat script afterwards17:03
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infobotzeq meant: then tweak the chat script afterwards17:04
MohammadAGManufacturer: ZTE CORPORATION17:04
MohammadAGat least that works17:04
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: it looks like everything just fine, just you either have wrong APN, or no credit17:04
MohammadAGpostpaid and APN is right17:04
MohammadAGhow do I connect with minicom?17:04
DocScrutinizer05then you already are in internet mode I'd guess17:05
DocScrutinizer05no more need to talk to modem via minicom17:05
zeqDocScrutinizer05: he isn't getting CONNECT17:05
DocScrutinizer05you'd probably even need "+++" escape sequence to abort data mode17:05
MohammadAGATD*99# << errors17:05
DocScrutinizer05that's why I say you either got wrong parameters, or no more credit17:06
MohammadAGbut it works fine on Ubuntu :/17:06
MohammadAGhow do I pass a username and pass?17:06
DocScrutinizer05the sequence seems all fine17:06
DocScrutinizer05until it refuses atd*99***17:06
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DocScrutinizer05Jul 21 13:57:36 OpenWrt chat[8197]: AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP",""^M^M17:07
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DocScrutinizer05looks good, though I dunno who's using it17:08
DocScrutinizer05well, you need same on your wrt17:09
* MohammadAG tries minicom on Ubuntu17:09
DocScrutinizer05you don't wanna use minicom, as the system already is two layer higher than that17:10
DocScrutinizer05Jul 21 13:57:36 OpenWrt chat[8197]: send (ATD*99***1#^M)17:10
DocScrutinizer05^^^ is minicom17:10
zeqDocScrutinizer05: I think he's just trying to see if he gets the same response on ubuntu17:11
DocScrutinizer05after that all 3 channels are assigned to ppp, and eth0, and whatnot17:11
MohammadAGCONNECT 720000017:11
MohammadAGon Ubuntu17:11
psychologei installed touchsearch,but can't find icon on home,or add widget menu.i reboot phone but the same17:11
zeqMohammadAG: that's using minicom, or the ppp script?17:11
MohammadAGminicom on Ubuntu17:11
zeqdoes it do the same on the wrt?17:12
MohammadAGno, it returns ERROR17:12
MohammadAGserial error?17:12
zeqall parameters the same?17:12
DocScrutinizer05Jul 21 13:57:36 OpenWrt chat[8197]: ERROR17:12
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zeqDocScrutinizer05: just trying to mimimize the difference between the working and non-working cases17:13
MohammadAGReplace 'pincode' with the correct pincode of your SIM card. Note that an disabled pincode on the SIM card is problematic, please enable it. If you are connecting to a phone where the pincode has already been entered, there if no need for this.17:13
DocScrutinizer05psychologe: check your .desktop files17:13
DocScrutinizer05psychologe: /usr/share/apps/*/* sth17:14
vi_freemangordon: ping17:15
MohammadAGhow do I set a pin code?17:15
fastaIs there some way to disable the blinking when a new e-mail arrives?17:16
psychologeDocScrutinizer05, in /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/  i can see touchsearch .desktop17:16
zeqMohammadAG: it's the same "phone", I can't see that being the problem tbh17:16
DocScrutinizer05fasta: settings-notificatrions17:16
MohammadAGroot@OpenWrt:~# gcom -d /dev/ttyUSB217:16
MohammadAGSIM ready17:16
MohammadAGWaiting for Registration..(120 sec max)17:16
MohammadAGRegistered on Home network: "Pelephone",217:16
MohammadAGSignal Quality: 10,9917:16
zeqthat seems to have worked?17:17
fastaDocScrutinizer05: you mean the same menu which contains 'received chat'?17:17
MohammadAGzeq, I got CONNECT17:17
MohammadAGnothing after that though17:17
fastaDocScrutinizer05: because it is already disabled there.17:17
zeqMohammadAG: it will be waiting for a ppp handshake or packet network access17:18
MohammadAGzeq, success?
zeqlooks good :)17:19
MohammadAGbut it hungup for some reason :p17:19
fastaDoes anyone use Monav here?17:19
zeqMohammadAG: I'd say that's a new problem :)17:20
fastaI went through the trouble of getting a PBF file and then converting it with the preprocessor and now the stupid phone says that the fileformat is not compatible.17:20
fastaAre there any instructions to get a working mapping application anywhere at all?17:21
DocScrutinizer05fasta: settings17:21
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: notification light17:21
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DocScrutinizer05the menu point with the 3 colered overlapping dots17:22
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fastaDocScrutinizer05: I switched my system language to English, because otherwise it's just not convenient.17:23
KiborgI seem to be to stupid to reflash the system-17:24
DocScrutinizer05fasta: so what?17:24
DocScrutinizer05fasta: do you expect me to do the same?17:24
DocScrutinizer05to do you a favour17:24
fastaDocScrutinizer05: so, it is rebooting now and then I will likely see what the same things you are seeing.17:24
DocScrutinizer05well, you should've picked 'german' then17:24
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DocScrutinizer05"Einstellungen" - "Benachrichtigungslicht"17:25
fastaDocScrutinizer05: E-mail message received is _not_ enabled.17:25
fastaDocScrutinizer05: and I do get it.17:25
fastaDocScrutinizer05: for text messages it is however enabled.17:26
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DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: that's weird why it hangs up17:26
DocScrutinizer05instantly after chap/pap17:27
fastaDocScrutinizer05: it's another option I think.17:27
fastaDocScrutinizer05: I likely already found it in the actual E-mail application.17:27
DocScrutinizer05nfc, I never really used modest17:28
kguYou dont use email on the N900? Or another app?17:28
DocScrutinizer05if you wanna know for sure, do dbus-monitor|less, /mce17:28
DocScrutinizer05no email on mobile17:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05: fixed that but no internet conn yet17:28
kguoh I see17:29
zeqMohammadAG: routing? DNS?17:29
DocScrutinizer05one account with one mail per month17:29
kguNot that much. Snailmail would be fine for you then :)17:30
DocScrutinizer05on t900 though I got modest configured, but it doesn't really work as it collides with my other client using pop and modest using imap, which my mailserver doesn't handle17:30
MohammadAGno, interface name has to be wan :D17:30
MohammadAGzeq, thanks a million :D17:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, you too :D17:31
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: sure thing, you need to tell it which interface to use17:31
kguPOP is so old fasioned17:31
zeqMohammadAG: no problem :)17:31
MohammadAG not bad17:31
DocScrutinizer05IMAP is so "I'd use a webmailer but I think it's not as leete as this weird protocol"17:32
kerioIMAP is a programmatic webmail17:32
jon_yPOP3 is the best, don't need constant connection to work17:33
zeqI use IMAP :P17:33
DocScrutinizer05and backfiring to server is minimal17:34
jon_yI don't need the server to tell me I can't read my 3 day old mail because it's out for maintenance17:34
zeqwell, it's my own server, so ...17:35
kguDocScrutinizer05: well, you can do pop3 on modest17:35
DocScrutinizer05and I don't need my server make a mail vanish on all clients because I deleted it on N90017:35
kguI need that, to keep in sync17:36
DocScrutinizer05actually that's the thing I need the least17:36
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kguI need it the most - people have different needs, and good that both is possible17:38
DocScrutinizer05gave me a friggin headache to make my OM account delete the mails from server while keeping it on my mail client - the OM server offers IMAP only :-(17:38
fastaHow much bandwidth does it eat?17:38
fastaI.e. if you leave it on always?17:39
fastaPer month.17:39
keriofasta: enough to drain your battery :)17:39
DocScrutinizer05IMAP? probably unpredictabble shitload17:39
kerio<DocScrutinizer05> i don't like IMAP so i'll spread FUD about it17:39
kguAs long as I'm on flatrate, I dont care17:39
* DocScrutinizer05 hopes for battery flatrate17:40
vi_IMAP is superior to pop in EVERY way.17:40
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jon_ylol, no17:40
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vi_lol, yes17:40
DocScrutinizer05HTTP is superior to IMAP in  EVERY way17:40
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FIQIRC is superior to MSNP in EVERY way17:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: can the "internal" usb port be used for charging, with an inductive mat and something below the cover?17:41
dreamerhi all, is this still the preferred way to automount ext2 microsd cards?
keriodreamer: last i heard, CSSU's automounter mounted *everything*17:42
zeqkerio: not without protective circuitry17:42
StyXman_DocScrutinizer05: probably you want disconnected imap, but if'you're fine with downloading the mails, pop and imap are equivalent17:42
jon_ydreamer: use cssu17:42
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keriozeq: which protective circuitry? i'd charge using the n900 itself17:42
dreamerkerio: it doesn't here. still have to mount -t ext this card17:42
DocScrutinizer05StyXman_: exactly17:42
dreamerjon_y: afaik I have cssu installed ..17:42
jon_ydreamer: as I found before, cssu mounter auto mounts my ext3 card17:42
DocScrutinizer05StyXman_: modulo imap gives you more headache configuring it17:42
FIQI have CSSU17:42
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FIQand an ext3-formatted SD card17:42
jon_yI see it in the nokia stock file browser17:42
StyXman_DocScrutinizer05: the server or the client? both should be faily equivalent17:43
FIQI still get these "not supported!" errors for the microsdcard thingy17:43
zeqkerio: there is no protective circuitry on the internal usb17:43
jon_yhmm, not sure, you using the stock kernel?17:43
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keriooh, that kind of protection17:43
fastaDocScrutinizer05: what's the problem with imap4?17:43
kerioi see17:43
keriohrmpf :c17:43
DocScrutinizer05StyXman_: client side, see my comment about deleting mails from server above17:43
FIQjon_y: I use powerkernel17:43
kerioand nobody made an inductive-capable BL-5J yet, huh?17:43
FIQto be able to use mobilehotspot (or I wouldn't be connected atm :P)17:43
jon_yhmm, me too, not sure why aren't you mounting it17:43
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jon_yFIQ: check with the nokia file browser app17:44
jon_yamything new?17:44
FIQjon_y: sec17:44
FIQwell, I see memory card there, but opening it just shows "format not supported"17:44
jon_ykerio: I have an inductive stove :)17:44
jon_yFIQ: try dmesg|tail ?17:45
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I thought about exactly that: BL-5 with inductive charging17:45
StyXman_DocScrutinizer05: most clients support «delete after downloading»17:45
DocScrutinizer05StyXman_: yeah, which makes your mail vanish on all other clients :-/17:46
DocScrutinizer05the wonders of imap17:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's exactly the same as POP in that regard17:46
kerioisn't it17:46
DocScrutinizer05no way17:46
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: cloud computing!!17:46
jon_ythin clients!!17:46
DocScrutinizer05pop download is download17:46
DocScrutinizer05no way to remote delete a mail on any remote client17:47
jon_yman, I get sick of getting told how much cloud integration $new_phone has17:47
keriosure, and if you IMAP download from all your clients, you get the same behavior as POP17:47
StyXman_DocScrutinizer05: no, but once you downloaded and deleted, either with pop or imap, other clients won't see those emails either17:47
jon_yso, I need to sign up with dropbox to get any external storage :(17:47
keriojon_y: google drive!17:47
jon_yyeah, skydrive too17:48
StyXman_what you can do is have your mail in a dirmail setup and sync it with git17:48
DocScrutinizer05so bottom line: fsck imap, pop worked fine for 4 decades17:48
dreamerjon_y: how can I check if I have the cssu automounter?17:48
jon_ydreamer: it should be installed as part of cssu17:48
jon_yafter you enabled cssu of course17:48
kerio"i don't like imap, so nobody should use it"17:49
dreamerjon_y: well, I have the 'CSSU Features Configuration' ..17:49
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dreamerdamn, too long since I touched this stuff :P17:49
FredrIQok, some experimentation17:49
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kerioStyXman_: hahaha what17:50
FIQand now I recall what the fs-table is on my sd-card17:50
jon_ydreamer: try also dmesg|tail?17:50
keriomail is not source code17:50
* DocScrutinizer05 kicks kerio, just for fun17:50
kerioand git is a bad VCS anyway, so...17:50
FIQp1 is formatted as vfat/fat32/whatever you want to call it, contains an uboot image17:50
jon_ygit is Superior17:50
DocScrutinizer05see? he likes it!17:50
FIQp2 is formatted as ext4, contains the rest of the content (i.e. an arch installation)17:50
* DocScrutinizer05 kicks kerio, just for more fun17:50
keriostop it dammit17:51
* kerio IMAPs DocScrutinizer0517:51
DocScrutinizer05you want more? sure thing!17:51
FIQjon_y: ^ is my structure, do you know why it causes fails?17:51
jon_yshould be iMaps17:51
FIQdunno if this line was sent: (16:45:51) (FIQ) the only sd-related thing I see is "Driver 'sd' needs updating - please use bus_type methods"17:51
jon_yFIQ: not sure17:51
StyXman_kerio: that *should* solve email sync'ing17:51
jon_yFIQ: can you mount manually?17:51
DocScrutinizer05<kerio> Doc doesn't like my trolling, Doc must be an asshole17:51
FIQI just did17:51
FIQto re-check if what I remembered was true17:52
FIQand it worked just fine17:52
kerioi love you docky! <317:52
StyXman_kerio: not that I pretend to make a lot of sense...17:52
kerioStyXman_: people keep using git for everything17:52
jon_yFIQ: sorry, no idea17:52
kerioif you just want to sync a directory, just use rsync or something like that17:52
StyXman_kerio: yes, even home dirs...17:53
FIQi.e. I did: mount -t vfat /dev/mmcblk1p1 /mnt && mount -t ext4 /dev/mmcblk1p2 /media/mmc117:53
jon_ykerio: even several GB size binary17:53
FIQand they mounted fine17:53
FIQOk, oh well17:53
FIQI can live with that error :p17:53
StyXman_kerio: right17:53
jon_ypreviously, before the automounter script was around, I needed to mess with the automount script17:53
jon_ycan't remember where it sits17:53
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jon_yiirc just need to remove -t vfat17:54
jon_ylet mount guess the fs17:54
FIQthe problem is that every time I omit -t vfat, I get "Invalid argument"17:54
DocScrutinizer05get cssu!17:54
FIQDocScrutinizer: I already have SSU..17:55
infobotFIQ meant: DocScrutinizer: I already have CSSU..17:55
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jon_yweird, without -t works for me the last time17:55
jon_ymaybe I remembered wrongly17:55
DocScrutinizer05  ctrl-f ke-recv17:57
FIQ4th jul17:57
FIQI rarely update my system17:57
FIQmaybe that's why :D17:57
FIQlet's update cssu and see if it makes a difference17:57
jon_ymake sure to reboot just in case17:58
fastaYour download starts in 5 seconds...17:59
fastaWhy not in 0 seconds?17:59
FIQDocScrutinizer: I never want to touch the "program manager" except if there's a good reason for it, as it's snailspeed is extremly annoying17:59
fastaDoes it have no mentally prepare the server?17:59
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: well, I dunno if you might get away with apt-get upgrade18:00
DocScrutinizer05I don't suggest it18:00
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DocScrutinizer05CSSU tested against HAM *only*18:01
FIQDocScrutinizer: last time I did that with a CSSU update, it kinda half-updated or something18:01
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FIQI always upgrade, except for CSSU18:01
FIQ*I always apt-get upgrade18:01
DocScrutinizer05you'll survive the unbearable delay, get a good cup of tea! ;-)18:02
DocScrutinizer05it improves the suspense18:02
FIQwhich remembers me.. I was going to install bounce evolution some days ago to have something to do when not having a connection on the phone... it failed after 50% progress on HAM (after taking like 30min) :<18:03
FIQand it didn't really tell why except that it... well, failed18:04
jon_yHAM is large ham and slow18:04
jon_yno idea why it takes so long to wait between app installs18:04
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: some partly nonsesical recheck of _all_ dependencies, plus a rebuild of that friggin heavy graphical scroll-list18:07
jon_yintern wrote it?18:07
jon_yif it has to go that route, make it at least take a checkout list or something18:08
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jon_yso I don't have to wait for each install to complete before looking for the next app18:08
DocScrutinizer05hey, if somebody really bothered: HAM is FOSS, you could augment it to have checkboxes to mark several packages as "install please", then do it all in one go18:09
jon_yshopping cart/check list or whatever its called18:09
DocScrutinizer05actually there's already such a thing: in backup restore18:09
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keriothere's also such a thing in fapman, but it doesn't work for ovi stuff for obvious reasons18:10
* jonwil wonders if there is genuine interest in replacing icd or if people just like to bitch about how crap it is18:10
* DocScrutinizer05 several times thought about creating a generic backup list that just contains _all_ packages18:10
DocScrutinizer05so you could select/deselect to your liking, then give HAM a go18:11
FIQit's done finally18:11
FIQjust took 15 minutes18:11
FIQ... to load the UPDATE LIST18:11
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FIQnow let's update CSSU18:11
DocScrutinizer05maybe you should disable some repos?18:11
FIQ(null) Install anyway?18:11
FIQ^ huh?18:11
FIQDocScrutinizer: maaybe18:11
kerioand HAM is bearable18:12
DocScrutinizer05kick extras-devel and you're fine18:12
FIQ"not enough battery"18:12
FIQwhat is the requirement?18:12
FIQi have 70% atm18:12
DocScrutinizer05use a charger?18:13
FIQbroken microUSB18:13
FIQthe only charger I have is external18:13
DocScrutinizer05never heard about requirements re battery in HAM18:13
kerioDocScrutinizer05: maemo without the extras repo sucks18:13
FIQso let's see now18:14
FIQI can't remove this requirement?18:14
DocScrutinizer05kerio: shutup fool. I said extras-devel18:14
kerioextras-devel is like extras, but stuff isn't ancient18:14
keriosoftware in extras is *not* more stable18:14
DocScrutinizer05no, it's also 30 times the size18:14
kerioit should be, but it isn't18:14
FIQI'm very sure that the battery will not drop before, and also, I've been able to update PRs before with 20% (through xterm) battery18:15
DocScrutinizer05and nobody suggested you keep it disabled18:15
FIQbecause if I can't, I see no way of properly upgrading CSSU if HAM is the most stable way18:15
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: as mentioned before, I don't know of any such battery check in HAM (maybe that doesn't mean a thing though)18:16
FIQDocScrutinizer: but there is one18:16
FIQBut not with regular updates18:17
FIQJust with "system upgrades"18:17
DocScrutinizer05you're sure you didn't try to flash a new kernel?18:17
FIQand CSSU counts as one18:17
DocScrutinizer05sounds about right18:17
DocScrutinizer05anyway 70% should suffice18:18
FIQi.e. when updating CSSU, there's a window like with PR updates, "Update for Maemo: blablablabla Create backup copy or continue?" and then a battery check18:18
keriothat's when you're updating a package marked sys, or something18:18
kerioand mp-community-fremantle-pr is one of those18:18
kerioor whatever it's called18:19
DocScrutinizer05never seen that, maybe because usually my battery is 100% when doing updates18:19
qwazixDoes FCamera york with cssu-thumb? Doesn't work for me18:19
DocScrutinizer05kerio: that's what FIQ said18:19
infobotqwazix meant: Does FCamera work with cssu-thumb? Doesn't work for me18:19
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: quite probably not18:19
DocScrutinizer05though freemangordon(?) clainmed it does18:20
kerioqwazix: i think it's made to work with the stock kernel and/or the kernel-power from Pali ONLY18:20
kerioif it works anywhere else, it's just because of a coincidence18:20
freemangordonvi_: pong18:20
FIQDocScrutinizer: so should I try to update with apt-get?18:20
freemangordonzeq: ping18:20
zeqHi freemangordon18:20
kerioFIQ: you should shut down, charge your battery, make a backup with backupmenu, and then update with HAM18:21
keriofreemangordon! ^_^18:21
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: should FIQ upgrade to CSSU-T latest with apt-get upgrade?18:21
freemangordonzeq: how to make fennec link with --rpath?18:21
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: lemme see tha backscroll18:21
qwazixhm, okay are there any fcam drivers package specifically compiled for kernel-cssu that I should try?18:22
kerio[UNOFFICIAL OPINION DONT TAKE SERIOUSLY]upgrading with apt-get should work, but reboot as soon as possible once you're done18:22
zeqexport LDFLAGS="-Wl,-rpath-link,$PWD/dist/bin/:/usr/lib:/lib -Wl,-rpath,/opt/qtm18:22
dreamerjon_y: I definitely have cssu installed, at least it's in the settings18:22
dreamerbut ext2 doesn't get mounted18:22
freemangordonzeq: that in debian/rules?18:22
jon_ydreamer: sorry, I really have no idea18:22
jon_ytry ext3 for kicks?18:22
DocScrutinizer05dreamer: which version?18:22
zeqthat's in mozconfig, just the extra -rpath part18:23
freemangordonFIQ: backscroll too long, would you repeat the essencials?18:23
FIQkerio: An interesting thing is that I upgraded to PR1.2 with apt-get w/o problems (I got some strange bugs before reboot however, but that's expected)18:23
zeqthere's also a patch in our tree which deals with the fennec install directory rpath18:23
dreamerDocScrutinizer05: how can I see that?18:23
dreamerDocScrutinizer05: ah18:24
DocScrutinizer05settings - about_cssu18:24
zeqthat gets added by configure since it knows where the install directory is going to end up18:24
dreamerDocScrutinizer05: 21.2011.38-1Smaemo318:24
freemangordonzeq: so, I should puth LDFLAGS = $(LDFLAGS) + -Wl,-rpath,/opt/qtm12/lib18:24
freemangordonin debian/tuls that is18:24
DocScrutinizer05dreamer: should work aiui18:24
zeqcan do, as long as it isn't overridden by mozconfig18:24
DocScrutinizer05dreamer: please  /join #maemo-ssu and ping freemangordon there18:25
FIQfreemangordon: cannot update via HAM due to battery requirement (I have 70% atm), i have updated "normal" updates from Nokia through apt-get before just fine with 20%, but: (17:00:40) (FIQ) DocScrutinizer: last time I did that with a CSSU update, it kinda half-updated or something18:25
FIQ"I did that" as in "I did update CSSU with apt-get"18:26
zeqfreemangordon: I'm just about to take my dog for a walk, I'll take my N900, but will chat  S L O W L Y :P18:26
dreamerDocScrutinizer05: hokay ..18:26
kerioFIQ: so... charge your battery18:26
kerioeventually you're going to *have* to18:26
freemangordonFIQ: connect a charger18:26
keriounless it's 20% of a nuclear battery18:26
FIQkerio: my external charger only goes to 90%18:26
FIQfreemangordon: no microUSB18:26
keriofreemangordon: usb port is bork18:26
kerioFIQ: so?18:26
freemangordonFIQ: does not matter, just connect it and update via HAM18:27
jon_yRTBGs, last 50 years eaasily18:27
freemangordonwell, 20% seems too risky to me18:27
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: connect what?18:27
FIQum huh? connecting with broken microUSB wont do a thing18:27
FIQbut.. it's 70%18:27
FIQI just told that I've done fine with 20% before (so the battery shouldn't be a problem here, just apt-get vs HAM)18:28
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DocScrutinizer05if there's a battery check in HAM for system upgrades, it shouldn't trigger at >=70%18:28
DocScrutinizer05maybe at 40%18:28
DocScrutinizer05maybe 3018:28
DocScrutinizer05not 7018:28
FIQlet's see if my other battery is charged yet18:28
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freemangordonwhat is the message from HAM?18:29
FIQ"Not enough battery - connect a charger and continue" or something18:29
DocScrutinizer05if possible ;-)18:29
FIQI've swedish locale at the moment18:29
DocScrutinizer05I guess freemangordonwants to grep for it18:29
freemangordonFIQ: and how many bars you have?18:30
freemangordonon battery metter18:30
FIQfreemangordon: I can't count them, but it's over half18:30
freemangordonhmm, did you try to reboot?18:31
FIQsorry for the lack of info here, but the battery meter doesn't say much18:31
DocScrutinizer05yeah, the bars on battery icon are no bars actually ;-P18:31
FIQfreemangordon: No, but I've come to a new conclusion - just wait at the moment until my other battery is charged fully and try again18:31
kguDo you know of any mail-apps that could replace modest?18:31
FIQIf it still errors, i'll come back18:31
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I'd guess your previous run with exploding HAM might have messed up things. So a reboot might be fine18:32
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keriokgu: microB :P18:32
jon_ybtw, anybody know why my nokia about page says version unknown?18:32
jon_yits a pr1.3 system18:32
kgukerio: Not really a mail-app.. :)18:33
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FredrIQUm, the battery indicator changed its' mind after reboot, so now HAM would definetely complain18:35
zeqI've created new tarballs for the linaro-4.6/7 compilers
FredrIQnow it's more like 40%18:35
FredrIQso I guess I'll just wait18:35
FredrIQuntil my other battery is charged18:35
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freemangordonzeq: how we are supposed to use that?18:39
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: you messed a lot with kernels and stuff?18:40
FIQspeaking of updates, why did nokia release a PR1.3.1?18:40
DocScrutinizer05cert issue18:40
DocScrutinizer05security update18:41
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: well, it is flashed with uboot18:41
jon_yloaded with kp5018:41
DocScrutinizer05that might be the reason18:41
jon_yloading a kernel that is different from flash will give you that?18:41
DocScrutinizer05not exactly, but related18:42
DocScrutinizer05it's not all clear what this closed lib to gather all the systeminfo does18:42
jon_yok, what happened? nobody knows exactly?18:43
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DocScrutinizer05Nokia would know18:43
DocScrutinizer05search tmo for "CAL" and "version unknown"18:44
infobotit has been said that tmo is, or, or It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.18:44
infobotfrom memory, cal is a calendar. try $(cal 1752)18:45
zeq1freemangordon: just unpack into /scratchbox/compilers18:45
jon_yso CAL calendar?18:45
DocScrutinizer05search for "What is CAL?" in tmo18:45
zeq1this time it *should* have the right kernel headers18:46
DocScrutinizer05cat /proc/mtd18:46
jon_yiirc that lists some memory layout18:47
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zeq1freemangordon: are you hinting I need to write that howto?18:48
zeq1I feel more confident doing so without having to mess with broken kernel headers. :)18:49
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: will the version unknown cause any issues?18:51
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: not afaik18:52
jon_yok, so its just cosmetic, not too bad18:52
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freemangordonzeq1: well, actually no, but it will be a good idea actually to have a howto in wiki18:53
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FIQ|n900ok, let's see how this goes with this charged battery19:03
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qpxhi. are there any good tutorials how to create maemo apps out there? i want to start creating some stuff for n90019:15
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* jonwil wonders if anyone actually cares about replacing closed-stuff with open-stuff or they just keep complaining about how crap the closed source bits are without being willing to do anything about it... :P19:17
kguMaybe we are just not that skilled :)19:17
freemangordonjonwil: those that complain are not doers, just moaners ;)19:18
jonwilthe question then is, are there any doers out there or am I the only one left who actually wants to do REAL work on this stuff?19:18
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qpxfreemangordon: thanks19:18
jon_yor just moaning so those who know what to do know that something is to be done :)19:19
freemangordonjonwil: why only you? remember camera-ui , OMP, adeclock, etc,etc19:19
jonwilhmmm true19:19
* jon_y setting up scratchbox soon-ish to screw with n900, but not too soon, busy irl is busy :(19:19
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freemangordonnot to mention the amount of work Pali did on bq-* stuff19:20
freemangordonqpx: you are welcome19:21
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zeq1jonwil: you were talking about the icd stuff earlier, what does mer use for network management? wouldn't it be easier to port something that works, rather than re-implement the whole thing?19:22
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jonwilyeah I wasnt suggesting writing something new19:23
jonwilwhat I was saying is that we need to come up with something that talks to the same dbus interfaces, gconf keys etc that are expected by other parts of the system19:23
jonwilspecifically the bits we cant easily change19:23
jonwilI think thats why19:25
jonwilI think 'that's why things like camera-ui, new clock etc have been attractive for devs is that they can be done without breaking stuff19:25
Lava_Croftout cycling with people, including 3iphones and 2 galaxy s2's19:26
freemangordonjonwil: but your question re BME is applicable here as well, for what purpose you want to reimplament icd?19:26
Lava_Croftguess which poor N900 was doing all the navigation?19:26
kguLava_Croft: Which app did you use?19:27
jonwilwell lots of people have said ICD sucks, also by replacing it with something open it can support things like some of the fancy WiFi security bits that the stock stuff doesn't do19:27
Lava_Croftkgu: mappero19:27
Lava_Crofti almost exclusively use mappero19:27
Lava_Croftsometimes marble, but i cant really get around its gui19:27
jon_ynow, stick a control system on it and have the phone steer for you :)19:28
kgumappero better than modrana?19:28
Lava_Crofti think i saw modrana for 5 seconds19:28
jon_ynone of the map apps ever work for me :(19:28
Lava_Croftthen decided this GUI is not for me19:29
Lava_Croftshould i try it?19:29
Lava_Croftlike, give it a chance?19:29
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Lava_Croftmappero isnt really updated anymore, iirc19:29
jon_yLava_Croft: does mappero require 3G to operate?19:29
kgumaybe, I can't really decide which one I prefer19:29
keriomaep is good19:29
jonwilso yeah replacing ICD is useful for much the same reasons as replacing BME is useful19:30
keriobut it doesn't do voice navigation19:30
kerioor... navigation, i think19:30
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FredrIQ|n900hey, it worked!19:30
Lava_Croftjon_y: depends19:30
Lava_Croft3g is handy if you didnt pre-download maps19:30
FredrIQ|n900and now my SD card mounts properly too :p19:30
jon_yah ok, it can predownload19:30
FredrIQ|n900not localized though19:30
Lava_Croftand it does voice nav19:30
jonwilits just that everyone likes to complain about the suckiness of ICD but no-one except me has shown any interest in actually doing anything about it :P19:30
FredrIQ|n900"14,4 gb volume"19:31
jon_ythe last time I tried, modrana doesn't do predownloads19:31
Lava_Crofti think Marble can pre-download19:31
jon_yno 3G/data plans make it kind of useless19:31
Lava_Croftwell, yeah19:31
Lava_Croftbut no 3g/data plan would make my entire n900 pretty useless19:32
jon_ynope, I live off wifi for connectivity :)19:32
jon_yoccasionally over USB rndis19:32
Lava_Croftmostly wifi and 3g here19:32
Lava_Croftim on the road a lot19:32
DocScrutinizer05FredrIQ|n900: hey!! :-D19:32
Lava_Croft90% is 2g19:32
Lava_Crofti can stream music fine over 2g19:33
Lava_Croft32kpbs streams:)19:33
jonwilI keep my phone in 2G most of the time (i.e. unless I am doing heavy data stuff) as it saves battery usage19:33
Lava_Crofti switch to 3g only when i feel i need it19:33
jon_ystrange that I can get 3G signals in rural areas, but data plans are expensive and idiotic19:33
jon_ydamn packages19:33
Lava_Crofti get 3g fine throughout entire NL19:33
Lava_Croftbut its a small, flat country19:34
Lava_Crofturban areas are worse for 3g here, old buildings ec19:34
Lava_Croftthey block out everything19:34
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jon_yyeah, but enough microcells around that signal strength isn't really an issue19:34
Lava_Croft3g coverage in NL is ridiculous for such a shit tiny country19:35
Lava_Crofta lot of 'dead' spots19:35
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jon_yI get 3G signal out in rural areas, with wooden huts and stuff around :|19:36
jon_yno, I don't have a data plan19:36
jon_yso its left to emergency use only19:36
Lava_Croftif i had no data plan, i would just put a 1650 in my pocket19:37
FIQ|n900I've rarely *no 3G at all*, but in areas like this (in the middle of nowhere) it can be a bit ridiculous @stability19:37
vi_freemangordon: upgraded to latest testing cssu-thumb.  It totally rules.  Thank you.19:37
FIQ|n900as seen in my nice d/c's all the time :319:37
Lava_Croftdont trust 3g for constant connectivity19:38
Lava_Crofttrust 2G with that:P19:38
FIQ|n900Lava_Croft: i have dual19:38
Lava_Crofti dont like dual19:38
Lava_Croftit just annoys me19:38
FIQ|n900so it *should* switch if it miss 3g, shouldn't it?19:38
Lava_Croftit does so too, for me19:39
Lava_Croftwhich makes my audio stream disconnect19:39
jon_yidiot packaging gives you expensive data plans with crappy caps, in addition to ridiculously postpaid voice/sms plans19:39
FIQ|n900I've never got 2g at all here19:39
jon_y**ridiculously expensive19:39
FIQ|n900either 3g or nothing, constantly swapping19:39
Lava_Crofti have about 1gb of data shoving per month19:39
Lava_Croftunlimited sms19:39
Lava_Croftand 100 minutes of calling19:39
Lava_Crofti got a galaxy nexus with it, which i sold right away19:39
Lava_Croftso i could get N919:39
keriowhy didn't you get another n900? :c19:40
kerioyou traitor19:40
Lava_Crofti alreayd have two19:40
Lava_Croftand n9 is cute19:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: holy shit you weren't lying about extras-devel being huge19:40
kerioit is!19:40
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Lava_Croftand theres a lot of shit in it!19:40
FIQ|n900kerio: was that news to you? :P19:40
Lava_Croftyes im being called a traitor by someone who is also amazed at the size of extras-devel19:40
FIQ|n900oh god19:40
Lava_Crofti guess its time to go do something else19:41
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: does maemo create a DCIM directory in fat32 partitions?19:41
jon_ymy n9 comes with angry birds and Need For Speed19:41
Lava_Croftjon_y: mine too19:41
Lava_Croftand golf lol19:41
Lava_Croftfirst things to remove:)19:41
jon_ylol yeah that too19:41
keriowhy would you remove angry birds? :o19:41
Lava_Croftits boring?19:41
jon_yno interest in it19:42
FIQ|n900hm golf19:42
Lava_Croftthe golf game is annoying too19:42
FIQ|n900my previous phone came with some golf app19:42
Lava_Crofti think the only N9 games that i actually play is Pocket RPG19:42
jon_ynow if it came with Nokia 2/3xxx snake game... :)19:43
FIQ|n900the 3d appearence was quite impressive for such a phone (se p1i), but I didn't play it more than to try19:43
FIQ|n900jon_y: :P19:43
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jon_ythe N9 kind of feels weird to use, if you're dealing with call menus19:44
jon_yno hard keys make it awkward :(19:44
jon_yI guess I'll get that too with any andoid/iphone out there19:45
jon_yhow do you guys deal with call menus? repeatedly press 0 until the operator shows up?19:45
keriocan anything bad happen if i remove osso-games-*19:46
DocScrutinizer05well, the trend to have less and less hw-buttons is insane19:47
* FIQ|n900 doesn't like that trend19:47
DocScrutinizer05I *hate* shooting photos with a touchscreen trigger19:47
jonwilI for one do NOT want a phone without a hardware keyboard19:47
jonwilbut I fear that I wont have a choice when I am shopping for my next phone19:48
jacekowskijonwil: there are no phones with hw keyboard19:48
jacekowskijonwil: that were released in last year19:48
FIQ|n900jonwil: I will never get one, unless the number of alternatives hits 019:48
keriohm, i thought the droid 3 had a bunch of keys19:48
FIQ|n900jacekowski: that's evil :<19:48
jonwilI think the one company that has made the most phones with hwkbd is RIM19:49
jonwilmost BlackBerries seem to have hardware keyboard19:49
keriojacekowski: yep, you're lying19:49
keriono, no you're not D:19:49
keriothe droid 3 was released on july 14 201119:49
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keriohm, the droid 4 has a hw kbd19:50
kerioso yeah, jacekowski: you're wrong19:50
FIQ|n900some manufacturer should realize that they could do some money of hw-kbd, it would be kinda unique this day..19:50
jon_yI was told that you're supposed to use bluetooth keyboards19:51
jonwilbluetooth keyboards suck19:51
jon_yawkward is still awkward19:51
jonwilyou cant use em when you have no surface to put them on19:51
DocScrutinizer05my hopes for jolla doing that got kinda crushed19:51
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: huh?19:52
ShadowJKbt keyboards are fine if you have 3 arms and 3 hands19:52
* FIQ|n900 also has hopes for that, but.. "crushed"?19:52
jon_ysometimes, I miss my old nokia series60 candy bar when dealing with call menus19:52
DocScrutinizer05smashed, whatever19:52
jonwilmy guess is that with more and more people shopping for phones based on looks rather than usage, hardware keyboards are no longer in vogue19:52
jon_yjonwil: I guess most people don't deal with call menus19:53
FIQ|n900DocScrutinizer05: oh yeah i get the definition.. but why?19:53
DocScrutinizer05initially tales were jolly will build two devices, one for dumbass users and one for geeks like us19:53
jonwilcall menus are hard enough as it is on my N900 :)19:53
DocScrutinizer05then some jolla dude corrected that19:53
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kerioand said that they'll only make the dumbass users one?19:54
FredrIQ|n900DocScrutinizer: has that changed?19:54
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-21 18:53:36] <DocScrutinizer05> then some jolla dude corrected that19:54
FredrIQ|n900what kerio said?19:55
DocScrutinizer05only one device, with a developer mode19:55
DocScrutinizer05I went "WAAAHHAAAHAAAAAAAAAAA! aeggis!"19:55
ShadowJKa real developer mode, or pretend like N9?19:55
jon_yI want a phone with real ethernet jacks :)19:55
DocScrutinizer05allegedly a real one, according to stskeeps19:56
FredrIQ|n900and I guess that means, N9 style no-hw-kbd?19:56
DocScrutinizer05but my hopes for decent hw kbd are mostly gone now19:56
keriohrmpf, the droid 4 has no umts19:56
ShadowJKI'm not sure I'd trust the "real" part until I see it :P19:56
* DocScrutinizer05 throws a USB->ethernet adapter in jon_y's general direction19:57
* FredrIQ|n900 will not express his feelings right now19:57
FredrIQ|n900they would just spam this channel19:57
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* FredrIQ|n900 afk19:57
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: no, USB ethernets don't go 1Gbps19:57
keriojon_y: how convenient, the n900 couldn't do anything remotely useful with 1gbps19:58
DocScrutinizer05neither does your average SoC19:58
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jon_yyeah, not yet19:58
jon_yfile transfer would be at least pretty fast19:58
DocScrutinizer05hell, it couldn't even STORE that crap anywhere19:58
DocScrutinizer05neither deliver19:59
jon_yfast enough to saturate the fastest SD cards19:59
jon_yand not be bogged down by CPU usage on the host19:59
jon_ywell, its not happening in reality20:00
* jon_y goes of dreaming again20:00
Lava_Croftn900 still makes such nice photographs20:01
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vi_till they deliver, joll is vapourware.20:06
vi_Tech companies have hurt my feelings to many times.20:06
vi_I cannot trust anymore.20:06
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Lava_Croftvapourware is a term that is generally not used for stuff like Jolla20:07
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Lava_Croftwhich is just announced, which sounds rather feasible and which hasnt passed any release dates or whatever, yet20:07
Lava_Croftexpectations on the other hand20:08
jon_ypreorder scam?20:08
Lava_Croftdont trust those20:08
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DocScrutinizer05well, announcements had: one device til end of this year. Targeted at both mass market (aka dumbass) and geek users. With some sort of developer mode, which means they will put truszone[TM] to purpose, including the whole broken chain-of-trust concept that is TPM20:10
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keriowait, what's broken in the concept of TPM?20:11
Lava_Croftactually, they never said that a device is promised this year20:11
Lava_Croftlet alone two devices20:11
Lava_Croftthey even emphasized that they make no promises20:11
Lava_Croftover and over20:11
Lava_Croftbut their *goal* is a device this year20:11
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DocScrutinizer05~tell kerio about aegis20:13
Lava_Croftmore like tell kerio about Trusted Computing20:13
kerioDocScrutinizer05: that's not the concept of tpm, that's a particular implementation of tpm20:13
Lava_Croftand i personally dont oppose Aegis at all20:14
kerioi'm all for tpm where i'm the one with the key to my device20:14
keriosadly, that doesn't really happen20:14
Lava_Croftyou need something like Aegis in the dumbuser market20:14
jon_yand to pander to the service providers20:14
Lava_Croftthats included in 'dumbmarket', but yeah20:14
jon_yso they can flood you with the latest angry birds promo20:14
DocScrutinizer05that's nonsense20:15
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizer05"The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment."  is the key20:16
Lava_Croftim actually impressed by that whole Aegis thing, that they actually tried to pull it off20:16
Lava_Croftjolla will need something better protected than aegis tho! :)20:16
DocScrutinizer05for *evrything* else there are better more mature less prone to abuse solutions already20:16
jon_yyep, those dancing angry birds ads on top of the screen20:16
jon_ysafe from you20:17
Lava_CroftEverybody else always knows a better solution to the problem(s) you solved20:17
jon_ysafe from being deleted20:17
Lava_Croftbut rarely, those people actually create the solution they advertise20:17
Lava_Croft*mostly*, they just whine about the solution you chose to use20:17
DocScrutinizer05chain of trust is a fucked up concept20:18
Lava_CroftGod, computers and mobile phones are full of fucked up concepts20:18
DocScrutinizer05since the root mandatorily isn't at user20:18
Lava_Crofti never ever can understand all the fuss that people can create over stuff like this20:19
Lava_Croftand im not trying to ridicule you in any way20:19
Lava_Crofti can get the general idea of it, and how its inherently broken and bad20:20
Lava_Croftbut really, why bother20:20
DocScrutinizer05are you maybe in the wrong channel? shouldn't you enjoy walled garden over at #harmattan?20:20
Lava_Crofti love my N900 a whole lot more than my N920:20
Lava_Croftand i can already see the attitude that spring up in so many places like this20:20
freemangordonzeq: i built fennec (cloned from github) but it is very slow compared to previous builds, any clue?20:20
Lava_Croftand again you are the source of such an attitude20:20
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DocScrutinizer05and you seem to be the source of fuzzy grunt20:21
DocScrutinizer05if my attitude doesn't please you... well, I couldn't bother less, esp since you seem to content with fuzzy BS statements20:22
Lava_Croftbut why make a remark like "go to #harmattan"20:22
Lava_Crofti mean really20:22
Lava_Croftapart from it not being a really productive argument20:22
Lava_Croftyou are also trying to actively shit on other folks20:22
Lava_Croftin this case #harmattan, which are nice people and which is a nice phone with nice software20:23
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-21 19:20:25] <DocScrutinizer05> are you maybe in the wrong channel? shouldn't you enjoy walled garden over at #harmattan?20:23
Lava_Croftso what is your problem really20:23
DocScrutinizer05please reread!20:23
Lava_Croftits a broken statement20:23
DocScrutinizer05it's no statement at all20:23
jabisI find aegis a broken statement - tho I like the idea of a security framework20:23
Lava_Croftits a statement that disguided as question20:23
Lava_Crofti dont oppose aegis, but enjoying it is the other side of the spectrum20:24
Lava_Croftpoor animosity20:24
jabisthen again I've argued over the need to be in the users hand - not under a certificate that walls the developing20:24
Lava_Crofti would love to place all the power in the user's hands20:25
Lava_Croftthats how it should be20:25
Lava_Croftbut practice proves over and over that the majority of people just cant and dont want to deal with such freedom20:25
jabisyou can't be creative with your linux if it's behind a dozen closed doors20:25
Lava_Croftclosed doors are an incentive to be creative, arent they?20:25
Lava_Croftits not like the closed door on the n9 made it really hard to enter through the window20:26
jabisthe freedom to develop apps that could kick ass > the ability to make 100 different camera apps20:26
jabisjust because you can't20:26
Lava_Croftthe majority of people just dont care20:26
Lava_Croftthey just want 'shit to work'20:27
Lava_Crofti cant help it:<20:27
jabisbut they CARE for the apps provided (the "ecosystems" people tend to em about)20:27
Lava_Croftbut not as much as you would think20:27
Lava_Croftand most of the time shit does work on thos walled garden systems20:28
Lava_Croftno matter how wrong they are in so many ways20:28
FIQ|n900I updated CSSU recently20:28
jabisthat's the only pitfall I've been hearing about - with non-tech people20:28
FIQ|n900everything worked etc20:28
jabisthey don't have the apps20:28
FIQ|n900but uh20:28
FIQ|n900now when checking what I have left to update20:28
FIQ|n900CSSU still show up20:28
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jabismuch like the inability to get a "rare" opportunity to work over VPN20:29
Lava_Crofti own n900 because i get immensely annoyed by android, ios whatever20:30
jabisevery fucking other phone gives you this - if we're not talking about S40-series symbian20:30
Lava_Croftbecause they limit my freedom to do things the way i want20:30
Lava_Croftbut i rarely ever come across anyone in real life who really cares about such stuff20:30
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Lava_Croftand if i do, its a nerd20:30
Lava_Croftso why would a company thats trying to be a success in the mobile phone world have to care about user freedom20:30
Lava_Croftbusiness wise, its just not really that big of an issue if its open or not20:31
jabisI'm talking about businesses adopting any "smartphones"20:31
Lava_Croftemphasis on "" indeed20:31
jabisat this point a 10million eur business20:32
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MohammadAGwhat's with walled gardens being used a lto :P20:32
jabisif one can't do a simple module to enable such communication - it's dropped already20:32
jabishundreds of devices left in the stock20:33
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Lava_Crofta lot20:33
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jabisd enjoy a device that has the things needed - no the things you could do, but you can't because you're not a nokia developer x)20:34
jabisa simple loop/tap device needed + a few dbus permissions -> all is there but no way to use = poor shit20:35
DocScrutinizer05jabis: and still that's the whole concept of chain-of-trust20:36
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jabis DocScrutinizer05 well not exactly - usually the superuser-level is in the hands of user - not an outside authority20:38
DocScrutinizer05no way20:39
DocScrutinizer05it starts with there's no such role as superuser in that concept. There isn't _any_ roles20:39
jabisI'm talking about authority - not privileges20:41
jabisthus authority has superceding control over the chain of trust - and authority being in hands of user - not distributor20:42
DocScrutinizer05that's not chain of trust20:43
DocScrutinizer05that's age old permissions20:43
jabisno - chain of trust relies for example some certificates - but authority is the user accepting the certs20:45
Siceloi will probably never understand why locking devices down is said to protect users :/20:45
jabiswhat nokia enforces is more a monopoly than a chain of trust20:45
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: here is an OT question. I want to deply a ftp server in a place with lot of power outages (no backup UPS). a) Is it possible to build a read only linux root.  b) Is SSD a better choice than HDD for power failures?20:45
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jabisMonopoly ->  A single CA acting also as RA -> One key to rule them all... -> All signing is done with this single key20:46
* trumee would have preferred a router running openwrt. but these things dont have the cpu grunt to do transcoding20:46
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: the server will be a mythtv server actually20:47
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jabischain of trust paradigm is much more hard to grasp20:49
keriotrumee: it's definetely possible to build a read only linux root20:49
kerioand if the system is read only, it should make no difference20:50
trumeekerio: is hdd prone to failure on power outage  comapred with ssd?20:50
kerioso i'd go ssd20:50
keriossd's problems are with writing, not reading20:50
kerioso... sure, i guess20:50
freemangordonzeq1: dammit, fennec nightly scores 8300 ms vs 6133ms for previous builds, WTF?20:50
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freemangordonzeq1: sunspider that is20:51
jabisssd is still a mess - I'd go with hdd20:51
jabisperhaps a raptor ^^20:51
keriojabis: it's going to be a read-only system20:52
keriotrumee: hell, go with something even smaller and easily replaceable20:52
trumeekerio: the only problem is that i need a mysql server running, and that will need  a rw fs :(20:52
keriolike a sd20:52
jabisso a raptor20:52
keriotrumee: how much space do you need?20:52
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jabiskerio, read-only or not - I still feel hdd more solid than ssd in longevity20:53
trumeekerio: few gb i would have guessed.20:55
trumeejabis: the machine is going to see about random 5-6 power cycles each day20:55
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DocScrutinizer05trumee: use a hdd with a journaling fs (ext3/4 for example)21:15
DocScrutinizer05trumee: if you wanna do even more: there are PSU with some 2 or 5 seconds backup via capacitors21:16
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DocScrutinizer05a proper linux should be able to emergency shutdown in that time21:17
DocScrutinizer05I.E. do sync21:17
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: this PSU is interesting, link?21:17
DocScrutinizer05no, sorry21:17
trumeeDocScrutinizer05: i have had corruption with reiserfs before due to power failure21:18
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freemangordonzeq: ping21:22
jabisreiser isn't a popular choice for concurrency21:22
trumeejabis: this was about 10 years ago21:23
trumeejabis: i dont have much expectations on journalling fs since then21:24
jabisI'm talking about 2012 - reiser isn't a good FS choice for what you're talking about21:24
* ShadowJK imagines a ups with that psu is even better21:25
ShadowJKbut people tend to forget to change the batteries every 2 years21:25
trumeeShadowJK: i have using a APC ups and have had lot of problems21:25
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trumeeShadowJK: these UPS are not built for an environment which sees 5-6 outages each day21:26
trumeeShadowJK: the batteries die away very quickly21:26
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trumeeso i would rather hook the system to the mains rather than go with a UPS21:26
ShadowJKThe "entry level" or "small office" UPSen dont work with active pfc psus very well21:27
ShadowJKIt's important to never deplete the batteries, so you need to dimension them according to that, and do quick shutdown of computer21:28
trumeethis is what i have,
trumeeShadowJK: it is a sine-wave ups for active pfc21:29
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ShadowJKhow long do batteries endure?21:29
trumeeShadowJK: buying an active pfc psu was a mistake i commited. should have used a passive psu, i could have used an entry level ups21:29
trumeeShadowJK: 2 months21:30
trumeeShadowJK: exactly!21:30
ShadowJKhow hot?21:30
trumeeShadowJK: 45+21:30
trumeeShadowJK: 45C +21:30
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trumeeShadowJK: that is the peak temperature though21:31
ShadowJKah that explains it21:31
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trumeeso i am seeking an alternative of a readonly fs and get rid of UPS21:32
trumeeonly problem i have is a damn mysql server i need21:33
ShadowJKthough battery there would die in 6 months too21:33
trumeeShadowJK: is there no smart mysql which keeps a copy of itself, and uses a previous copy if the current one is corrupt21:35
* trumee doesnt care much about the mysql data loss since it is storing only the tv program guide21:35
ShadowJK*sql* and smart rarely go together21:35
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trumeeShadowJK: how about managing db backups using a script? rootfs copies over the db on each bootup21:37
trumeeShadowJK: and saves db every hour21:38
trumeealso, is it possible to have the partition/usb drive with db to have no cache21:38
trumeethat way everything will be in sync to minimise loss21:39
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DocScrutinizer05trumee: actually a laptop is a smart alternative21:43
DocScrutinizer05trumee: you just should make sure the battery doesn't get too warm21:44
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trumeeDocScrutinizer05: the server hosts a few tv cards. should i use laptop just for the rw fs and server for tv cards and readonly fs21:46
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Maceri'm in seattle21:49
Macerconnecting.. to get to the rough and tough mean streets of pasco washington lol21:50
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DocScrutinizer05trumee: if your UPS batteries get too warm, consider placing them outside the UPS case22:06
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zeqfreemangordon: pong22:08
zeqfreemangordon: I was out having dinner :)22:08
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zeqfreemangordon: I'll rebase again and push if it helps22:09
DocScrutinizer05trumee: however I think most important thing is to shut down PC and UPS quickly22:09
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KiborgI don't get it. I tried to flash the system to fix the infinity rebooting problem. The problem is that the Flasher program just starts and closes instantly.22:10
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infoboti heard maemo-flashing is
MacerKiborg: make sure you are running a proper version of flasher22:11
DocScrutinizer05Kiborg: the flasher program doesn't "open" and "close"22:11
DocScrutinizer05it's a commandline program22:11
Maceryou also have to run it as administrator or root from the prompt22:11
Maceror commandline22:11
MacerDocScrutinizer05: what ever happened to the windows program that did it all fo ryou? :)22:12
Macerlike.. next next next flash done22:12
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, I thought that  been a hoax?22:12
Maceryou can't even find that naymore22:12
MacerDocScrutinizer05: huh it was a nokia app22:12
Macerthe one that came with the N900 and N810... it downloaded the update and flashed it22:12
DocScrutinizer05well, a windows app. So NFC here22:13
Kiborgit opens in cmd doesn't it?22:13
MacerKiborg: flasher has to be ran manually22:13
Macerso yes... you open cmd22:13
Macerthen run it22:13
DocScrutinizer05  6.22:14
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Macerstuck waiting for my airplane22:15
Macerboarding time is 1:05pm pst22:15
Macer50 more minutes before i can boad22:15
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KiborgFor EU I take global one?22:18
Maceri think nowadays you pick global for everything22:19
* DocScrutinizer05 cackles comparing length of windows related instructions vs linux related, on
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DocScrutinizer05dang it MUST be flashing weekend or somesuch22:23
Maceri still have to flash my n81022:23
Maceri don't even know why22:23
Maceri was going to toss it in a car to do something with it i suppose22:24
Macerwith an bt obd2 reader22:24
DocScrutinizer05~wiki obd222:25
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Cleanup|date=July 2009}} {{Refimprove|date=June 2009}} 'On-Board Diagnostics', or 'OBD', in an automotive context, is a generic term referring to a vehicle's self-diagnostic and reporting capability. OBD systems give the vehicle owner or a repair technician access to state of health information for various vehicle sub-systems. The amount of diagnostic information available via OBD has ...22:25
Macermaemo4 still has carman22:26
Macerwhich looks up the codes for you if a test engine light comes on.. also shows you your fuel mixture on the fly22:27
Macerand alerts you if you are running too rich or lean22:27
freemangordonzeq: yeah, rebase it. I was thinking to but fennec build in cssu-thumb repo, but it is unusably slow now :(22:27
Macerobd2 does have quite a bit of information22:28
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DocScrutinizer05I ponder to use my N810 as a door bell plate, with camera and voice22:28
Maceri wanted to use the n810 on my 94 caprice but it is an older obd... some weird hybrid22:28
Macerlol... the cam sucks tho :)22:28
Macerplus... the cam doesn't support h26422:28
Maceryou'd have to write something that supported lame h263 or something22:28
DocScrutinizer05just fine enough for my ugly unsolicited visitors ;-P22:29
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Macerwell.. it is more the supported codec than anything22:29
Macerwhich is why the lame ass cam wouldn't support gtalk video chatting :-/22:29
DocScrutinizer05I don't care about codec as long as other end can decode it22:29
Macerif it even can22:29
DocScrutinizer05even thought about using mirror on my other N810 and sshfs mounting the /dev on the door plate22:30
Macerthe cam was the n810s biggest blunder22:30
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Macerthey just took the n800 and shoved it into a case with a keyboard and slapped a gps on it in favor for a radio receiver22:30
Macerand called it "new" ... i think that's where apple got the iphone upgrade path idea from22:31
Macerwhat type of freq does the gps system use?22:31
Maceri'm wondering if they just reprogrammed the fm radio receiver22:32
Macerto receive gps signals instead of fm :)22:32
MacerMADE IN CHINA!22:32
DocScrutinizer05some 1.6GHz22:32
Macerguess not then :)22:32
Maceri wonder how much power those sats use22:33
Macerto send the signal22:33
Maceri mean.. they probably receive sunlight all the time.. but still22:33
DocScrutinizer05I'd really wonder what ntfs/whatever bandwidth you'd need to access raw /dev/video22:33
Maceron the n81022:34
Maceri doubt much22:34
Macerwell..  not much by today's standards22:34
DocScrutinizer05(power) guestimate: 100W22:34
zeqfreemangordon: pushed22:34
DocScrutinizer05GPS IIR   1,136 kW  total22:36
Macer1,100 kilowatts??22:38
Macerisn't tha tlike... a MW?22:38
DocScrutinizer05that's german22:38
DocScrutinizer05so 1.1 kW22:38
MacerkW = Mhz?22:39
Maceror power output?22:39
DocScrutinizer05total power22:39
Macerbecause a megawatt is a LOT22:39
Macerfor a radio22:39
DocScrutinizer05just 1.1kW, not 1100kW22:39
Macer. is far different than ,22:40
Macerin germany they use , instead of . ?22:40
Macerhow does that not confuse people?22:40
DocScrutinizer05Europe is used to it ;-P22:40
Macerfair enough22:40
Macerused to the metric system too ;)22:40
Macerwe're over here on the imperial system still... we just hate europe22:41
Macerlets be honest22:41
vi_Only 3 countries in the world still use the imperial system.22:47
vi_And USA.22:47
ShadowJKAlso even if you had a software radio, you would probably not have the CPU to decode GPS22:47
vi_I think that says a lot.22:47
Maceraren't those all US type places?22:47
Maceri know Liberia was created to send negroes back to africa22:47
Macernot too sure about Burhma .. but i thought it didn't exist anymore22:48
zeqfreemangordon: my latest fennec build with gcc47 seems ok. still really slow to load pages though! Not sure if MOZ_ACCELERATED=1 is working or not...22:48
vi_Honestly, the imperial measurments system should have been BURIED decades ago.22:49
vi_I do not measure things in bushels or rods thank you.22:49
Macervi_: LOL.. yeah.. honestly.. i agree ;)22:49
Macerbut try converting hillbillies and ignorant people to a new system22:49
Macerit would be chaos22:49
freemangordonzeq:   MOZ_ACCELERATED=1 means enable HW acceleration, but you don't really need it22:49
freemangordonthere are entries in about:config for that purpose22:50
freemangordonzeq: ^^^22:50
Macervi_: the one that confuses me the most.. is the "dozen"22:50
zequp to now it's had the effect of black flickering you described before22:50
Macerwtf is up with the number 12 that it gets its own special name?22:50
zeqnow no errors, maybe the env var is ignored now?22:50
Macertoo bad the world didn't start off working with an 8 base system22:50
Macerimagine how easily peopl ewould understand binary numbers nowadays if it were heh22:50
ShadowJKdozen is the only one that survives, there were many other names too22:51
MacerShadowJK: for 12?22:51
freemangordonzeq: NFC, justpulled master, lemme build and check what's going on22:51
Macerwe use the 12" foot heh22:51
freemangordonzeq: could that regression of speed be related to some jscrib zlib changes in Makefile?22:51
Macerbecause i guess 12" was a common foot size in the colonial days?22:51
ShadowJKnot for 12, but for all sorts of measurements22:52
Maceri don't understand why the colonists weren't using the metric system anyways22:52
Macerdidn't the metric system come out before the US was reated?22:52
zeqfreemangordon: I may not be losing noticible performance because I compiled with -ftree-vectorize, -ffast-math and -fgraphite?22:53
zeqit seems fast except for the page loading time22:53
zeqfreemangordon: I can't see how it could have anything to do with zlib22:54
freemangordonzeq: run sunspider please. wothout OC and tell me the result22:54
MacerShadowJK: wow.. lots of history behind the dozen22:55
Macerah well. my flight is about to start boarding in about 10 minutes.. ttyl22:55
zeqfreemangordon: you might want to try enabling elfhack.  It doesn't work with the qemu-arm-sb that comes with Gentoo scratchbox, I don't know if the same applies for you.22:55
zeqfreemangordon: ok22:55
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freemangordonzeq: how to enable that?23:00
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zeqfreemangordon: it's disabled explictily in mozconfig23:01
zeqdefault is enabled23:02
zeq(I think)23:02
freemangordonok, lemme check it23:03
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freemangordonzeq: yes, ac_add_options --disable-elf-hack23:05
freemangordonzeq: did you add that?23:05
vi_hillbillies and rednecks, I get it now.  We use metric, base10 because we have 10 fingers, toes etc.  Inbred hillbillies use base12 because of the extra fingers.23:05
zeqIt fails in my qemu23:05
freemangordonok, i'll try it here23:06
vi_< Macer> didn't the metric system come out before the US was reated?23:06
zeqfreemangordon: assuming my battery lasts sunspider is underway23:06
vi_there are bars in Edinburgh that are older than USA.23:06
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zeqfreemangordon: I just accidently locked my N900! Never done that before, don't know the default code...?!?!23:08
merlin199112345 or something23:09
zeqmerlin1991: thanks! :)23:09
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zeqyup, although also rebooted23:10
freemangordon/home/maemo/workspace/thumb/tmp/fennek/fennec-qt-maemo5/obj-build/build/unix/elfhack/elfhack -b -f test.so23:10 terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error'23:10
freemangordonelfhack don't work here too23:11
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freemangordonzeq: but it seems to be a linker problem, not qemu23:16
freemangordoncould be wrog of course23:17
zeqI thought that first of all, but last time I tried it I got an illegal instruction from qemu23:17
zeqstill could be binutils though23:17
DocScrutinizer05Macer: there's no SI equivalent for one hilbilly - it's inconvertible23:18
zeqmaybe we should use 2.22.5x.x?23:18
freemangordonhmm, most probably we should use older binutils than newer23:19
zeq2.22 is what I'n using on my laptop23:19
freemangordonanyway, I will leave that for now, lets see how is the performance with latest nightly23:19
zeq2. on my server LOL23:19
zeqsunspider is running at the moment23:20
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freemangordonzeq: well, we'll compare compilers too that way :D23:22
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zeqnot too impressive23:23
zeq@600Mhz 8565.723:23
freemangordonhmm, it is even worse :(23:23
zeqfeels quite quick though23:24
freemangordonno pint to compile it here23:24
zeqobviously some JIT engine "upgrade"23:24
zeqCompiler probably wouldn't make much difference to jscript23:25
zeqafterall it's a code generator itself23:25
zeqit's not going to be the bottle-neck23:26
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freemangordonzeq: but WTF, almost 2 times slower. damn23:26
freemangordonzeq: what was the addres of mozzilla chat server?23:27
freemangordoni'll try to ping romaxa for some help on that issue23:30
vi_freemangordon: browserd is now using around half the RAM it did before.23:31
zeqvi_: :)23:32
freemangordonvi_: well, maybe 10-20% less :)23:32
vi_freemangordon: well for me browserd used to sit around 10-13%23:33
vi_Now it sits around 6%23:33
vi_which is great.23:33
vi_So great in fact I am dedicating this next beer to you.23:33
* vi_ pssssht23:33
zeqfreemangordon: I've gotta go. Might be back later...23:34
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freemangordonzeq: ok23:34
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