IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-07-20

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merlin1991srly, the new hype isn't "on a mobile device" but "on a raspberry pi" ffs it's just another arm device nothing different from arm phones / tablets / whatever00:31
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Raimumerlin1991: Except it was really cheap.00:32
merlin1991yeah but still uh oh there's going to be chromium for the rpi00:33
merlin1991no there's going to be chromium for hardfp arm, could run ie on the n900:33
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: like poele who say internet when in fact they meant http://00:36
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: merlin1991: like people who say internet when in fact they meant http://00:37
DocScrutinizer05and think http:// when they read or hear internet00:37
merlin1991talking about the internet, the other day I learned that there is more to dns than A AAAA CNAME and MX records :)00:38
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DocScrutinizer05orly? :-D00:39
DocScrutinizer05what did you find?00:41
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merlin1991srv :D00:43
DocScrutinizer05hah, learnt about it during twinkle times00:44
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infobotNever heard of it.02:44
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merlin1991infobot is not good at geogrpahics :D02:47
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iluminator105today when i was talking i heard beep beep beep while i was talking on the phone, is my phone being tapped?03:54
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robbiethe1stYou wouldn't hear anything if it was03:56
robbiethe1stLikely interference from another phone nearby checking in03:56
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ShadowJKisn't beep beep beep call waiting?07:20
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iluminator105n900 forwards calls after 20seconds even though i change the setting it does not stay07:34
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ShadowJKoperator side07:43
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DocScrutinizer05or starhash-enabler08:18
DocScrutinizer05and do it via suggested scc08:18
DocScrutinizer05at least I for one feel like I know what's really going on when I enter stuf like *#61# and get a cleartext answer from operator08:21
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keriohm, is there a way to not make the background shrink when opening the dashboard or the menu, in hildon-desktop?08:40
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keriohm, apparently it's a parameter in transitions.ini08:46
iluminator105starhash enabler??08:50
keriostarhash enabler!!!!08:52
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ZogG_N950hey zeq10:22
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ZogG_N950ruskie, did you repackaged newer xmms2?10:23
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ruskieZogG_N950, nope10:35
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keriovi_: does the fullscreen toggle work for every program correctly?10:41
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ZogG_laptopruskie: do you still have dst and tar.gz to package? i want to build it for harmattan on COBS10:49
ruskieZogG_laptop, erm... no clue10:49
ruskiecheck the repo... though not sure if I have it running atm10:50
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ZogG_laptopruskie: can you check later on you PC as i don't want to scre with dependencies10:52
ruskieZogG_laptop, if stuff is there10:53
ZogG_laptopruskie: good =) gonna try to build it10:53
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vi_kerio: It depends on how the program is made.  Generally it does though.  It simply removes window decorations and resizes the window.10:56
vi_kerio: It can have wierd effects if you use it on pop down menues.10:57
vi_the status menu or camracover launcher for example.10:57
vi_It should also be noted that you shoud change the shortcut from ctrl+space to ctrl+enter.10:58
vi_kerio: ctrl+space is in fact a builtin hildon shortcut for changing keyboard layouts.10:58
vi_(I did not know this when I wrote that).10:58
ZogG_laptopruskie: hmm, tried to build 0.8 there, got a lot of unresolved dependencies11:06
ZogG_laptopvi_: btw forgot to mention irc chatter, nice one to have on n95011:08
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keriovi_: i don't really care about changing the dictionary11:45
kerioor do you mean that both happen at the same time?11:46
vi_kerio: It can change the keyboard layout.11:48
vi_kerio: Suddenly none of your remaps will work.11:48
vi_kerio: and you will go WTF??? and spend hours trying to figure out WHY THE F* your keys don't work even though you loaded the right keymap 50 times.11:49
keriovi_: changing the kbd layout would be neat11:49
kerioyou can have *two* layout11:49
vi_kerio: In short, don't use ctrl+space for xbindkeys shortcuts.11:49
kerioanyway, how do you get it to change layout? :(11:49
vi_kerio: Yes, 2 layouts.11:49
kerioi can only change the dictionary11:50
vi_kerio: I am talking about xkb not the 'dictionary'.11:50
kerioyeah but my xkb layout stays the same :(11:50
vi_kerio: oh wait, ctrl+space changes dictionary for you?11:50
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vi_kerio: well fck knows why.11:51
kerioi'm on the european layout11:51
kerioon the global software i mean11:51
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keriowhy the need for f6 then?11:54
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vi_kerio: why the need for F6?12:18
vi_Have you got a 12 hour memory span?12:18
vi_If you fullscreen xterm, there is no button to Un-fullscreen xterm.12:19
vi_F6 brings up the soft menu with the fullscreen button on it.12:19
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keriovi_: can't you use ctrl+enter for both?12:40
vi_kerio: Fullscreen AND F6?  Sure, however consider how other programs you may want to fullscreen will react to F6.12:41
keriono, i mean12:42
keriouse the fullscreen command for xterm12:42
keriodoes it work correctly or is osso-xterm a fickle bitch like most of the native maemo programs12:43
vi_Kerio it works fine, however the row of buttons still appears at the bottom.12:45
vi_fullscreen=toggle fullscreen12:45
vi_F6=toggle row of softbuttons12:45
vi_osso-xterm sucks balls anyway.12:45
vi_The only nice feature of it is the adjust font size with volume keys.12:46
vi_Unfortunatley the way maemo deals with fonts is fucking broken so things like normal xterm do not work wrt to changing fonts.12:46
vi_Which is an epic pain in the balls as osso-xterm does not support middle click pasting.12:47
keriovi_: madness12:47
kerioF6 toggles fullscreen -without- disabling the softbuttons for me :c12:49
keriooh i see12:52
keriosetting the toolbar to false makes F6 enable/disable both12:52
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zeqvi_: is osso-xterm opensource?14:09
vi_zeq: I think so.14:10
zeqit shouldn't be hard to put middle-button paste functionality in14:11
zeqit would be nice on fremantle if it supported portrait rotation too IMHO14:11
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zeq(especially since it works fine when forced)14:11
zeqAm I the only one who thinks that would be useful?14:11
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zeqI can't remember how I fixed libstdc++ when I built the toolchains!14:13
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zeqI really should take notes sometimes14:21
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jonwilhi all14:23
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Palijonwil, hi14:26
zeqjonwil: hi14:26
Palijonwil, can you disassemble binary /usr/bin/app-detect ?14:26
Palisize is 9988bytes14:26
Paliobjdump is not resolving symbols :-(14:27
jonwilwhat does it do?14:27
jonwiland what do you want to know about it?14:27
Palijonwil, see
PaliI want to know how app-detect decide to turn off jackbias14:28
Palior other question, do you know if it is possible to find out which application sending specific dbus signal?14:29
Pali(from dbus-monitor)14:29
jonwilok, app-detect does not make any dbus calls at all14:29
jonwilthe only things it imports are some X calls and some libc calls14:29
jonwilit does however make some socket calls14:30
Palijonwil, hm... so then some other application sending that dbus signal...14:30
jonwilwhich dbus signal is it?14:30
jonwilgive me the name and I can find it14:31
Palilook at post:
Paliit is some dict structure14:31
PaliI need to know which app send "jackbias" "off"14:32
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jonwilok, going to grep my local dump of the N900 firmware for that string14:32
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Palijonwil, or if you have wired jack handsfree (that which comes with n900 box) you can try it yourself14:33
Paliwhen you plug or unplug it, some app send that dbus signal (to alsaped) and alsaped set alsa switches14:34
Palibut if there is active phone call, then some app send dbus signal jackbias *on* (when handsfree is plugged)14:34
Paliand I want to know why in active phone call is jackbias *on* and why in other situation off14:35
jonwilok, the string is referenced in 3 files14:35
Paliand then I want to create proper solution how to enable jackbias on for other applications then phone call14:36
jonwilthe policy.* filers come from policy-settings-rx5114:36
PaliI have bad feelings, that "app-detect" decide for jackbias on and off14:37
Palistrings on app-detect show "rtcom-call-ui" "on" "off"14:37
Paliand rtcom-call-ui is phone call application...14:37
PaliI know file alsaped.conf14:37
Paliit is configuration for alsaped14:38
Palihere is written what will happend if somebody send that dbus signal14:38
Paliso here is rule what to do if somebody send jackbias off14:38
Palialso in app-detect is string "call UI window class"14:39
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Palijonwil, you written that app-detect make some sockets14:40
jonwilapp-detect binary comes from policy-application-detector14:40
Palican you dump what it listen/sent?14:40
Paliyes, I know thi14:40
jonwilthe description of the package answers the question14:41
jonwilit says "Changes are comminated to ohmd using UDP over"14:41
Paliok, ohmd are opened14:41
PaliI will try to find what ohmd is receiving...14:42
jonwilits probably a closed-source plugin for ohmd that does the work14:42
Palijonwil, can you disassemble that binary app-detect and upload it to pastebin?14:42
jonwilit doesn't have any symbols on its functions, just on the imports14:42
Paliohm and all its plugins are now opensource, look
PaliI found git commits which are for fremantle version14:43
jonwilaha, I think the policy.dresc and policy.plc files are compiled Prolog code14:45
jonwilone or both14:45
jonwilpackage policy-settings-rx51 has a dependency on swi-prolog-lib-core14:45
Paliyes, code for SWI prolog :-)14:45
jonwilwe need to find any open version of the same prolog code (either Maemo or MeeGo)14:46
Paliswi prolog code can be disassembled14:46
Paliback to text14:46
jonwilok, in that case disassemble the code and it should show you how it deals with the jack stuff14:47
Paliproblem is that I do not know how to disassembly it...14:47
jonwilnor do I14:48
vi_Pali: I thought jack bias on/off is set by HAL policy file...?14:48
PaliI tried it load it into my swi prolog on notebook, but it show message:14:48
PaliCould not open resource database "policy-settings-rx51/usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc": Inappropriate ioctl for device]14:48
Paliseems that arm compiled prolog code cannot be loaded on x8614:49
Palivi_, no by alsaped14:49
Palino hal policy but dres policy14:49
vi_Pali: I assume you have looked at the post install script in 'headset enabler'?14:49
Paliit hack alsaped config file14:50
Palivi_, I'm trying to find proper solution, no hacking system files...14:50
Paliand sometimes it does not worked that solution (by headset enabler)14:51
vi_Pali: I noticed.14:51
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zeqcan anybody figure out how I managed to fix to statically link properly?14:52
zeqit's only 1/4 of the size compared to the working version14:52
vi_Pali: you are not totally distracted by your new n950 yet?14:53
Paliseems that prolog code is platform independet14:53
zeqno toolchain gurus here then? :)14:54
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-20 13:35:28] <Pali> and I want to know why in active phone call is jackbias *on* and why in other situation off14:54
DocScrutinizer05because in phonecall mic is supposed to work14:54
DocScrutinizer05probably somewhere you'll find policy headset and policy headphone14:54
Palijackbias is switch to enable headset button14:54
Palisomebody from nokia said that when is enabled then battery is quickly drained14:55
DocScrutinizer05yes, and button does what? It simply shortens mic14:55
vi_10k mic pulldown.14:55
DocScrutinizer05meh, it draws like 3mA14:55
PaliI tested and no battery drain :D14:55
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: Unless you have a knockoff chinese headset like I thought I would try.  Opened it up to find they had missed out the jack bias resistor.14:56
vi_Imma like, 'wat da..'14:56
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, with that line I mean: want to know which app decide to turn off/on jackbias and how this app decide...14:56
DocScrutinizer05Nokia's 'own' wired audio spec says sth like "2V via 2kR, and mic shall have 500R to 2kR"14:56
vi_fuckit, the notificationr led uses more.14:58
DocScrutinizer05but there's loss on some components maybe14:58
vi_The ALS sensor uses more!14:58
DocScrutinizer05anyway, bat drain is negligible14:58
Palibroadcast: is there some prolog hacker?14:59
DocScrutinizer05eeeeew prolog14:59
vi_Pali: Sorry, I am a no-skill gnu-b14:59
Lava_Croftg-nub makes you sound like a rapper14:59
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DocScrutinizer05idiot's OT question: how would I start a KDE desktop window from a remote ubuntu on my winXP cygwin?15:02
DocScrutinizer05(alternative: PuTTY)15:02
Lava_Crofti cant process words like cygwin15:03
Lava_Crofti refuse, sorry15:03
DocScrutinizer05I so far managed to start "X" on windoze, with xterm. in xterm log in to ubuntu via ssh -XY. start xeyes or whatever on ubuntu machine with window in win-"X"15:05
DocScrutinizer05however that's an unbearable windows manager in that "X"15:06
DocScrutinizer05and no desktop at all15:06
vi_you fire up xterm15:07
vi_then start all your programs with a &15:07
vi_job done15:07
DocScrutinizer05unbearable win-mngr like "WTF?! how do I close that xeyes?"15:08
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vi_killall xeyes15:08
DocScrutinizer05vi_: ^^^15:08
vi_aaah, wait a second.15:08
jonwilok, if we can find a way to decompile the prolog we might be able to go further with this15:08
DocScrutinizer05this thing is unbearable with more than 2 windows15:08
jonwilotherwise I am out of ideas15:08
vi_What are you using for your xserver?15:08
vi_DocScrutinizer05: There is a windows program called xming.15:09
DocScrutinizer05cygwin xterm: startx15:09
DocScrutinizer05opens some shit that reminds me on fvwm or whaever15:10
vi_xming lets you start programs either in individual windows or put your xserver into its own window.15:11
_shadowxDocScrutinizer, do you have xinitrc ?15:11
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DocScrutinizer05_shadowx: on windows? NFC15:12
DocScrutinizer05probably not15:12
DocScrutinizer05vi_: I want a KDE desktop15:13
DocScrutinizer05in a window15:13
_shadowxxinitrc is used to choose your windows manager. its related to X not to the OS itself.15:13
jabisDocScrutinizer05: well - you could just use putty to forward your X along with setting sshd_config to allow X forwarding as well15:13
DocScrutinizer05just that there's no real X on windows15:13
DocScrutinizer05jabis: X forwarding already works15:14
jonwilhmmm, I think the prolog policy.plc file is output from some sort of just-in-time compiler15:14
jonwilwhich is why its specific to ARM15:14
jonwiland why its fast15:14
DocScrutinizer05just for single programs like xterm, xeyes whatever, and all are in this unbearably cygwin fvwm remake15:14
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Yes there is.  It is called xming.15:15
vi_DocScrutinizer05: You start a local Xserver.15:15
jabisDocScrutinizer05: xorg-x11-base?15:15
vi_On your doze box.15:15
DocScrutinizer05vi_: I know!15:16
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-20 14:14:20] <DocScrutinizer05> jabis: X forwarding already works   <DocScrutinizer05> just for single programs like xterm, xeyes whatever, and all are in this unbearably cygwin fvwm remake15:16
DocScrutinizer05[2012-07-20 14:05:40] <DocScrutinizer05> I so far managed to start "X" on windoze, with xterm. in xterm log in to ubuntu via ssh -XY. start xeyes or whatever on ubuntu machine with window in win-"X"15:16
jabisDocScrutinizer05: startkde would fire kdm and gnome-session gdm15:17
DocScrutinizer05what I'm missing is which program to start to get a proper KDE desktop in that window, instead of xeyes or xterm15:17
DocScrutinizer05jabis: thanks :-D15:18
DocScrutinizer05jabis: that's probably the answer to my question15:18
jabisye - gdm and kdm would fail for obvious reasons :)15:18
jabis(login) so you just start a session of the window manager instead15:19
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_shadowxnormaly ~/.xinitrc is doing this. X calls it and in it you have 'exec kdestart' or whatever WM you'll use.15:22
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DocScrutinizer05just I've not seen any .xinitrc on cygwin15:22
DocScrutinizer05though there must be something like that, but for the 3 *local* cygwin xterms that pop up15:23
DocScrutinizer05I still wonder if the whole kwin or whatever will run *inside* a window of local cygwin "X"15:24
DocScrutinizer05well, probably it should15:25 seems relevant to this discission-15:25
DocScrutinizer05hi SpeedEvil:-D15:26
FredrIQ(14:16:23) (DocScrutinizer05) [2012-07-20 14:05:40] <DocScrutinizer05> I so far managed to start "X" on windoze, with xterm. in xterm log in to ubuntu via ssh -XY. start xeyes or whatever on ubuntu machine with window in win-"X"15:26
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FredrIQisn't Xming a better idea if you want proper X on windows?15:26
FredrIQfor things like xforwarding15:26
DocScrutinizer05if it was my way, I'd not even touch that windows stuff15:27
FredrIQi've used it, it has worked perfectly for me15:27
_shadowxNote: If you wish to customize the X clients started when the X server starts, you can do so using a ~/.startxwinrc script.15:27
_shadowx^^ do $HOME/.startxwinrc  == ~/.xinirc15:27
DocScrutinizer05FredrIQ: I will search for it in our repository of acceptable software15:28
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jabisDocScrutinizer05: dunno how you instantiate the x, but you could try copying the cygwin.bat > X.bat and change the bash line to: bash --login -c X -multiwindow - dunno whether it makes a difference15:29
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DocScrutinizer05bash line??15:29
jabisin cygwin.bat15:29
DocScrutinizer05duh, actually there's a bash, yes15:29
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jabisit should do a something like bash -i blablabla15:30
DocScrutinizer05I'll look into what startx in cygwin does15:30
DocScrutinizer05for now it starts tow local xterms and a login console15:31
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vi_FIQ: There is the right way, the wrong way and the DocScrutinizer05 way.  The DocScrutinizer05 way being like the right way, but even more correct.15:36
DocScrutinizer05o.O ???15:37
jonwilok, so unless we can decompile the policy.plc file, we arent going to be able to find out more about the jack stuff15:37
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jonwilpali: ping15:41
fastaHow do I download a few GB of maps to my n900 such that I don't need an internet connection for mapping? And: which application should I use?15:46
DocScrutinizer05vi_: could you enlighten me about the reference of your last post?15:46
DocScrutinizer05fasta: depending on your mapping app.15:49
DocScrutinizer05marble for example has download option built in iirc15:49
DocScrutinizer05for ovi maps there've been instructions on tmo some years ago15:50
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: way more interesting: marble comes with onboard routing15:51
DocScrutinizer05aka offline routing, aka monav15:52
vi_DocScrutinizer05: It is a joke DocScrutinizer0515:54
vi_poking fun at your insistance that things should be done in the absolute best way.15:55
DocScrutinizer05well, no problem with the joke ;-) I just grepped my 20klines backscroll for last time FIQ said something -- nada15:55
fastaDocScrutinizer05: and where is the download whole planet button?15:55
fastaDocScrutinizer05: for marble.15:55
DocScrutinizer05umm, I think you can't15:56
FIQDocScrutinizer: I rarely say anything15:56
fastaI read somewhere it was only 4GB or so.15:56
DocScrutinizer05only countries one by one15:56
fastaDocScrutinizer05: where does it get the maps?15:56
DocScrutinizer05depends on number of zoom levels you want to download15:56
fastaDocScrutinizer05: i.e. who has to pull the plug before it stops working?15:56
DocScrutinizer05though iirc in marble you can choose from different sources15:57
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: no problem with that either. But why did vi_ highlight you then?16:00
FIQMy altnick is FredrIQ16:00
DocScrutinizer05aaah, nickchange, that might explain it16:00
FIQ(14:26:00) (FredrIQ) isn't Xming a better idea if you want proper X on windows?16:00
FIQ(14:26:06) (FredrIQ) for things like xforwarding16:00
FIQ(14:26:47) (FredrIQ) i've used it, it has worked perfectly for me16:00
jonwilI used mappero and it seems to be great, the only wish I had is that it would have a better display for "hey, I dont have that tile locally and you told me not to download any tiles from the internet"16:00
fastaDocScrutinizer05: are you involved in the new Jolla (or something like that) project?16:01
DocScrutinizer05not exactly (yet?)16:02
DocScrutinizer05the streetnames are for reading with a magnifier glass16:03
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I might not be allowed to install Xming16:04
DocScrutinizer05will look for it in our pool of cerified software16:06
fastaDoes the camera stop when there is an incoming call?16:09
DocScrutinizer05(btw one of the reasons i'd prefer to do as much as possible on a proper linux system. If i'm missing anything there, I may download the source and build it on my own)16:09
DocScrutinizer05fasta: probably16:10
fastaDocScrutinizer05: why?16:10
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DocScrutinizer05errrr, good question ;-)16:11
fastaWhen I saw a Samsung Galaxy S2 do that, I was like: wtf?16:11
DocScrutinizer05maybe because it's hard to focus on your target while holding the phone to your ear?16:11
fastaDocScrutinizer05: I am merely talking about an incoming call. Not even answering it.16:12
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I see your point16:12
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess cpu load is another good reason to not do both concurrently16:13
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DocScrutinizer05and the sheer fact that camera goes into standby mode whenever it loses focus is the pragmatic reason why I think it does stop16:14
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DocScrutinizer05since dialer pops up on inbound calls16:15
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DocScrutinizer05dunno what nikocam does16:16
DocScrutinizer05quite probably the same16:16
Palijonwil, see
Palipolicy-settings-rx51/usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc is compiled from files ^^^16:17
jonwilyeah I saw that myself16:18
Palijonwil, some open source meego files:
jonwilyes I saw those too16:18
jonwilposted in the forum about that16:18
jonwilThe meego stuff doesn't have the jack stuff16:19
PaliI'm trying to find way how to load that policy.plc file into swi prolog...16:20
jonwilI haven't found a way to do it16:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: why is cpu utilization an issue? can't the n900 handle a call and the camera?16:21
DocScrutinizer05PA on a call is rather cpu heavy16:21
Palijonwil, that state prolog file can be created in swi prolog by predicate: qsave_program(+File, +Options)16:22
Paliwe need to find predicate which load state file stored by qsave_program16:22
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jonwildont know how that can be done16:26
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qwazixvi_: actually I found out that ctrl+space doesn't really switch layouts on the N900, there isn't such mechanism (only one kb layout is active)16:29
qwazixThe non latin layouts have 8(!) levels where the first 4 are latin and the other 4 e.g. greek, russian etc16:30
qwazixctrl+space switches active levels from 1-4 to 5-816:31
qwazixunlike the N950 ctrl+shift which actually switches layouts16:32
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Pali"This system may only distributed using the GNU General Public License"16:35
qwazixso in theory with setxkbmap and two 8 level layouts you can switch between 16 levels of keys :)16:35
Pali"because the following components contain GPL-ed code:"16:35
Palithis is in file policy-settings-rx51/usr/share/policy/rules/rx51/policy.plc16:35
Palijonwil, see ^^^^16:35
jonwilok, in  that case someone should ask Nokia to comply with the GPL and share the code :)16:36
Paliah, who will write email?16:37
DocScrutinizer05hurry or there won't be anybody left to ask16:37
PaliI cannot because my email address is on banlist16:37
njsfthere will always be lawyers16:37
PaliI asked for more source code and from one time, they stopped to answer on my email...16:38
Palijonwil, can you write email?16:38
DocScrutinizer05Pali: WTF?!16:38
njsfand there is the GPL enforcers, so you can have the FSF Europe deal with it ?16:38
jonwilactually, wait16:38
jonwilit seems like that file contains different licenses16:38
DocScrutinizer05njsf: pinging Harald Welte is one of my favourite weekend hobbies ;-D16:39
kerioi has a remapped keyboard! ^_^16:39
keriovi_: ^16:39
jonwilactually, says it may not be GPL after all16:40
jonwili.e. it depends on if any code actually calls license(GPL) or if its just code from license.pl16:40
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qwazixkerio: did you find a battery?16:41
Pali@?This program may be distributed under any license, provided all@! @;conditions implied by the GNU Lesser General Public License@! @;are satisfied.  In particular, this implies the source code@! @>to any modification in SWI-Prolog or one of the used libraries@! must be made available.@!16:41
Palijonwil, read more ^^^16:42
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kerioi what?16:42
fastaWhat is a good phone for someone who is not very technical and basically just want to read e-mail 'on the go'?16:42
qwazixyou were asking about bl5j's the other day16:42
jonwilnote that policy-settings-basic for MeeGo says GPL16:42
qwazixdid you buy one?16:42
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keriooh right16:43
keriono, not yet16:43
keriobut it's a long-term goal16:43
keriopossibly a dual scud/japod16:43
keriomugen xl batteries cost a shitton16:43
qwazixI've got 3 japods and theyre very good value/money, and still available16:44
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keriobut... scuds are better!16:47
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qwazixindeed but I think they aren't so much better to make up for the double price16:48
fastaIs there any way to turn off the '1 application installed' message?16:49
fastaI prefer a *nix way of interaction: 'shut up until there is a problem'.16:49
fasta(and preferably I would use applications/devices with tons of error correcting codes, such that there are no problems)16:50
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qwazixfasta: apt-get install :)16:50
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kerioqwazix: do you know if someone tried to make a triple battery?16:51
fastaqwazix: according to DocScrutinizer05 there are some kinds of additional checks in the normal application.16:51
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qwazixkerio: haven't seen one, no, but how would you fit it in the N900, duct tape?16:52
kerioqwazix: sure, why not :D16:52
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kerioor maybe put the two extra batteries sideways16:52
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qwazixfasta: correct, but this AFAIK helps when installing system packages, not simple apps16:53
jonwilok, I am not convinced that this file is actually GPL or LGPL16:53
jonwilbut I dont know the details of swi-prolog licenseing16:53
jonwilbest answer is to contact Nokia and ask for a specific confirmation16:53
jonwilthe .deb file itself has no license file whatsoever16:53
qwazixkerio: I would have gone with dual batteries long ago if mugen had a lens cover16:53
qwazixbut I hate to have to swipe the lens clean each time I want to take a photo,16:54
qwazixnot to mention scratches16:54
qwazix(and that cleaning the lens would require removal of the mugen cover)16:55
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keriowait, i thought mugen had a lens cover D:16:55
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kerioqwazix: so do you just swap batteries?16:56
keriopowercycling is annoying :c16:56
Palijonwil, now I sent mail to for source code request16:56
Palibut I think that I'm on blacklist16:56
Palijonwil, can you write email too?16:57
qwazixkerio: I didn't have, idk if they changed the design. I don't mind powercycling but now that my bupbat has gone flat it's a bit annoying because I have to play slotmachine if I don't do the swap magic-trick fast16:57
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jonwilI dont know how to write such emails16:57
jonwilI always say the wrong things16:58
infobotqwazix meant: kerio: it didn't have, idk if they changed the design. I don't mind powercycling but now that my bupbat has gone flat it's a bit annoying because I have to play slotmachine if I don't do the swap magic-trick fast16:58
PaliDocScrutinizer05, can you write email for jonwil?16:59
keriomeh, not really16:59
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keriojust ntp and/or launch gpsrecorder16:59
fastaIs there some application which will tell me how late it will be at some location on the planet given some other location and time at some other place on the planet?16:59
qwazixand I like better having one or two spare batteries in the other pocket than have a giant bulge17:00
jonwilok, now that I found bits needed to allow replacement (e.g. in CSSU) of WiFi bits, what should I reverse engineer next? :P17:00
kerioqwazix: anyway, japods are 1370mAh, scud blue dreams are 153017:00
qwazixkerio: good idea, my network used to have auto time but this doesn't seem to work anymore17:01
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qwazixall scud blue dreams are 1530? I read there were batches with lower capacity to fit in other phones17:02
kerioi might buy a couple of japods, i s'pose17:02
kerioor three, since dx gives a discount if you buy 3+17:03
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qwazixjonwil: osso-calendar17:04
jonwilwhat specifically is unknown about the workings of that17:04
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jonwilif there is specitfic unknowns about what it talks to, how it stores data etc, then yes I can look at it17:04
jonwilbut I dont plan to just reverse engineer it for the purposes of cloning its UI17:05
Palithat was compiled by older swi prolog17:05
qwazixjonwil: I'm not sure exactly but I read that it's impossible to boot maemo without it17:05
Paliinstalling older swi prolog on computer17:05
qwazixand indeed I stumbled upon it when trying to run fremantle in a chroot, and as I was hoping we could strip out all closed source bits from fremantle to be able to redistribute a chroot image17:06
qwazixthat is why I said it17:07
jonwilwhich calendar package specifically?17:07
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jonwil lists all the calendar packages as "no" under "Needed For N900"17:07
qwazixdon't know, I apt-get removed anything related to calendar, let me check17:08
jonwilplease do17:08
jonwilif that page is incorrect, then it should be corrected17:08
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jonwilwell Calendar-ui-widgets is used by modest and osso-notes as well as calendar17:10
Paliby osso-notes?17:10
Paliwhat is notes doing with calendar??17:10
jonwilcalendar-ui contains some widgets17:11
jonwilI mean calendar-ui-widgetsd17:11
jonwillike color picker or something17:11
jonwil"A ColorPicker UI Widget for Calendar and others"17:11
jonwilis what it says17:11
qwazixit was calendar-ui and calendar-home-applet but maybe it was another thing that prevented running hildon and I mistakenly attributed to calendar as I had read that removing it breaks maemo17:11
jonwilthere is a dev package for it in the SDK17:11
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jonwilwell I dont see anything specific about calendar that looks important17:13
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jonwilok, so someone give me something to reverse engineer then :P17:15
merlin1991messages ui17:16
keriojonwil: hildon-welcome, with the slotmachine17:16
merlin1991not neccesarily the ui part but the dbus or what ever communication behind it17:16
jonwilrtcom-messaging-ui is complex to reverse engineer because of all the ties to telephony17:17
jonwilas for hildon-welcome, what do we need to know about it?17:18
merlin1991a perfect task then eh? :D17:18
keriojonwil: rewrite every slotmachine picker into something more sensible17:18
jonwilI already gave up on rtcom-messaging-ui17:18
kerionamely, date and time both in the settings menu and in the welcome screen17:18
kerioand the fmtx frequency17:18
merlin1991dang I hoped one day we can replace the ui package :/17:19
jonwiland I am not interested in doing deep level UI work, I have tried that already.17:19
jonwilWhat I am looking for is something which talks to other parts of the system where we want to know how it does that17:19
jonwillike I did with the WiFi stuff before17:19
qwazixjonwil: also maybe clockd, how to replace it with something open17:19
merlin1991qwazix: there is the open clock from ade17:20
qwazixmerlin1991: does it replace clockd or only the ui?17:20
merlin1991the current state lives on cssu gitorious, and will probably be worked on17:20
merlin1991I think only the ui17:20
qwazixI was talking about the daemon17:21
keriowtf is clockd, and why is it closed?17:21
merlin1991ah sry then17:21
Palidaemon clockd is closed17:21
jonwilclockd is the daemon for handling time17:21
qwazixdoes timed for harmattan do the same job? and is it open?17:21
PaliI update time from celullar network17:21
Palithis is reason why is closed17:22
Palitimed is open17:22
Palidoing similar job, but interface is different17:22
jonwilthere is both clockd and libtime17:23
Paliboth closed17:23
jonwilboth are related17:23
jonwili.e. libtime talks to clockd17:23
jonwilboth are closed17:23
Palilibtime is only dbus library which talk to clockd17:23
jonwilok, so what do we need to know about clockd?17:24
keriowhy the fuck do we need a daemon to keep track of the time17:25
jonwilthe daemon is needed so it can talk to other stuff over dbus17:26
jonwile.g. it talks to signal
Palidaemon also send signal when it changing clock17:26
Paliso all application should update it via that dbus signal17:27
jonwilyeah it does17:27
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Paliit is needed if you have time timer17:27
Paliin your app17:27
jonwilok, so what do we need to know about what clockd does?17:27
kerioso why does a normal linux desktop NOT need something like that?17:27
Palijonwil, there is docs17:27
qwazixwe probably need to know if all the methods and signals of it can be replaced by equivalent timed functions17:27
fastaI basically still have the same question as before: how can I download a lot of map data first to my desktop computer and then to the phone? I don't care which mapping application for the moment.17:28
fastaI don't get why this isn't documented.17:28
qwazixkerio: I think cron does that, not sure though17:28
fastaI have no problems getting it from the desktop to the phone.17:29
qwazixfasta: you can use ovi map loader for ovi maps17:29
fastaThe problems are 1) "where to get the data?" 2) Where is it supposed to go?17:29
fastaqwazix: that requires Windows, doesn't it?17:30
qwazixmm, yep, but I suppose it could work with wine. Also there is a website with direct links17:30
fastaqwazix: I also cannot find the canonical place to download Nokia Ovi Suite.17:31
qwazixfasta: there I can't help you, never used that crapware17:32
fastaqwazix: huh?17:32
fastaqwazix: so, you aren't even suggesting you yourself endorse?17:32
fastaqwazix: why would you do that?17:33
qwazixno I didn't say ovi suite, I said ovi map loader17:33
qwazixa little standalone program that just downloads maps17:33
fastaqwazix: ok, and what is the canonical location to get that?17:34
fastaqwazix: Google seems to have trouble finding int.17:34
qwazixit's deprecated but it works fine with the N900 and you can still find it if you google for it. Maybe not from nookia directly though17:34
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qwazixfasta: I've got it somewhere around here let me check17:35
fastaSome of the open source apps look really well, but they don't allow me to do what I want, which is downloading a lot of data from my desktop in one go and then transferring it do some directory.17:36
Palijonwil, also see old version (have some other/more data):
fastaPerhaps I can reverse-engineer how it works, but I don't get why they don't just document their stuff.17:36
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Palihahahaha, nokia pushed source code of libomxil into documentation, see:
Palijonwil, DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^^17:38
jonwilits LGPL anyway17:38
qwazixfasta:  it needs to find a drive with the file qf that ovi maps creates on the first run,17:40
qwazixhaven't tried it on Linux though17:41
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jonwilok, all the info one would need to know about clockd dbus interface is here
jonwilthat matches with what I can see in the clockd code17:42
qwazixgot to go17:42
jonwilso it should be possible to replace clockd with new daemon that talks the same dbus interface17:43
qwazixjonwil: that sounds good17:43
qwazixbut you still need to find something to reveng :)17:44
qwazixanyway bye for now17:44
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jonwilyes I*do still need something to reverse engineer17:45
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jonwilalthough what exactly is the benefit of replacing clockd other than "because we can"?17:49
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kerioi still can't believe we have a daemon called clockd17:51
keriothe kernel keeps track of time ffs17:51
jonwilclockds job is to listen to signals from the cellular services daemon17:51
jonwilrelated to the cellular network time information17:52
kerioso... if i disabled network time update, why is it still running?17:52
RiDjonwil: so it can update his time to the network time?17:53
RiDthat never worked for me on any mobile here17:53
jonwilyour network may not send certain things17:53
jonwilso yeah timed listens for
jonwilwhich takes parameters year, month, day, hour, minute, second, timezone, daylightsaving17:54
RiDbecause my network sucks17:54
jonwilit also calls get_network_time_info17:55
jonwilwhich returns the same values17:55
jonwilas for why its running even if autosync is off17:55
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jonwilis that things can still request network time values via libtime017:56
jonwileven if its not autosync17:56
jonwilthat and libtime itself contains the calls to turn autosync on17:56
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jonwiland to tell clockd that autosync is now on17:56
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jonwilthank you to whoever at Nokia made dbus info for available to us mere mortals :)17:58
jonwilquite nice to have17:58
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jonwilstill looking for something worth reverse engineering :P17:59
RiDyou're arrested17:59
RiD...for possessing barbie dolls17:59
jon_yjonwil: the bootloaders? :)18:00
jonwilheh yeah right18:00
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jon_ywhere is my working uboot... :|18:01
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jonwilok, find something I can actually do :P18:03
RiDoh sorry, wrong channel18:04
ZogG_laptopRiD: why are always trolling?18:05
jonwilstill need something to reverse engineer :P18:05
RiDZogG_laptop: it wasn't on purpose (the dumbass word). i was using the virtual kb and didn't see what channel i was on18:08
ZogG_laptopRiD: you are only on #maemo on freenode at least?18:09
RiDI spend most of my time on gtanet18:09
ZogG_laptopjonwil: you want to reverse engineer? you can check harmattan's parts =P18:11
jonwilI dont care for harmattan :P18:11
ZogG_laptopbad for you18:11
jonwilI only care about Fremantle because my device is a N900 :P18:12
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jon_yjonwil: fix my uboot? :)18:12
jon_ywell, pali's uboot18:12
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jonwillike I said, I am not interested in bootloader stuff18:12
jon_yah ok18:13
jon_yphonet modem?18:14
jonwilnot intereted in the cellular modem firmware either :P18:14
jon_ysim card application toolkit?18:14
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jonwilthats not possible without changing the modem firmware IIRC18:15
jon_yah, so you're still not touching the firmware? :)18:16
jon_yor at least make the gsm modem capable of screwing with the base station18:17
jon_yor whatever wifi-pwner did for wifi, except now it does to gsm18:18
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kguIs it possible to get info about which NodeB and RNC the N900 is connected to? Does the celltower provide this info to the mobile?18:18
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ShadowJKwhat's rnc?18:31
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kguRadio Network Controller18:35
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kguThe controller of a nodeB18:37
cuppsyGoogle-fu has produced varying answers... is there a way to prop KDE's Plasma Active on top of Maemo (N900) or is it only really plausible with MeeGo?18:37
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DocScrutinizer51kgu: iirc you can deduce it from some nodeB extended id18:47
DocScrutinizer51kgu: netmon: RNC ID 51418:51
kgugreat, thx! Nice app18:54
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freemangordonzeq: you've opened a new bug? why didn't update the old one?18:57
zeqfreemangordon: I'm going to open a new bug for each of our patches (that we wish to push upstream) as romaxa asked me to ;)18:58
freemangordonaah, great we have romaxa back18:59
zeqI have them all ready to go.  I've just been trying to get this bloody toolchian to work...18:59
infobotzeq meant: I have them all ready to go.  I've just been trying to get this bloody toolchain to work...19:00
freemangordonI was without inet since yesterday night, seems I missed some interesting development :)19:00
freemangordonyeah, my bill was not payed :D19:01
freemangordonand stupid inet provider didn't send me a mail19:01
kguDocScrutinizer51: Do you know if BSC ID is also possible, maybe another app?19:01
kguwhen on 2G19:01
freemangordonzeq: anyway, i have to go out for a while, bbl19:02
zeqok, I'll hopefully have that toolchain working by then...19:02
freemangordonwish you luck19:02
zeqI can't remember how I got it working before...19:02
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jonwilstill cant think of anything worth reverse engineering...19:14
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fastaCan I also use PBF OSM data directory on the phone?19:35
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gn00bwhenever i click on an icon on my nokia n900 my phone freezes. i've done a hard reset but still the same thing. i does change to all 4 desktops with no problem but that's about it. no time, no status bar. any ideas???20:14
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jonwilkerio: ping20:38
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Sicelogn00b: either something's taking up your RAM or your processor. reboot?20:47
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zeqfreemangordon: still hitting :(20:48
povbotBug 53135: was not found.20:48
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gn00bSicelo, i have to reboot every time i end a call or click an icon20:52
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Siceloah, after a reboot, you could start Xterm via Shift+Ctrl+X, run htop (or top if you don't have htop) .. might help you see which process is the cause of your sorrows20:54
DocScrutinizer51kgu: nope, no idea20:59
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gn00bSicelo, using top. Mem: 242272K used   CPU: 6.2%21:03
gn00bis that about right?21:04
Sicelotoo much ram used.21:05
DocScrutinizer51either a forkbomb or some process fscks dbus21:06
DocScrutinizer51mem used doesn't tell too much21:07
DocScrutinizer51cpu a little bit more21:08
gn00b13.4% Mem /usr/bin/osso-addre   is the largest amount that i can see being used21:08
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gn00b62.5% CPU /usr/bin/Xorg -logf21:10
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DocScrutinizer51check your rootfs for free space21:12
gn00bhow? this is all new to me21:12
Sicelodf -h /21:12
keriojonwil: pong? wtf21:12
gn00bFilesystem: rootfs     Size: 227.8M     Used: 134.7M     Available: 88.8M     Use%: 60%     Mounted on: /21:15
Sicelofree enough :P21:16
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gn00bi don't care if i lose all my personal data (pics, music, numbers)...i just want my device to work.21:17
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Siceloah, shortcut is to flash then21:19
Siceloflash rootfs only21:19
Siceloin your shoes, i'd carefully review my recent app installations, etc21:20
* Sicelo has come close to a reflash numerous times since 1 year ago, but with a careful 'recovery strategy' has managed to avoid it completely thus far 21:21
gn00bflash just the you know of a url with a good tutorial?21:22
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infoboti heard maemo-flashing is
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gn00bafter reading the link, i realize that i flashed it this morning. still have the same problem.21:26
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Siceloflash went fine?21:27
DocScrutinizer05some crap in ~21:28
gn00bcan't remember exact syntax, but i remember the word 'successful'21:28
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Sicelothen you'll have to flash eMMC too21:31
Siceloif you still have the problem after a 'verified' successful flash, it would start to point to failing hardware21:32
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gn00bso it seems that the only difference in flashing the eMMC is a trailing '-R'21:36
Sicelonot really :P21:37
Siceloyou need to supply the correct image. there's a rootfs image and an emmc image21:37
gn00bjust flashed rootfs again. CMT flashed successfully21:37
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gn00bsays it's combined21:41
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Ja_hi, can anyone help me with flashing my n900?21:45
Siceloomg. today is n900 flashing day :P21:46
SiceloJa_: why do you need to do that?21:46
gn00bit says that it's the 'Latest Maemo 5 USA release for Nokia N900'21:46
Ja_yesterday it just turned off by itself and when i wanted to boot it up again there were no images and win98 like UI21:48
Ja_couldn't do much on it, the top bar was pink and i had no icons on the desktop21:49
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Sicelogn00b: most of us flash global firmware21:49
Ja_so i thought if i have to reflash it why not checking out nemo and that's where problems happened21:49
SiceloJa_: incredible.21:49
infobotwell, maemo-flashing is
SiceloJa_: ^21:50
gn00bok...i'll try the global one21:51
Ja_the problem is i cannot boot the phone into upgrade mode21:51
DocScrutinizer05US version is known to have ... issues, sometimes21:51
Ja_now i cannot boot it at all21:51
DocScrutinizer05recharge your battery in a 580021:52
SiceloJa_: probably battery. get another fully charged battery21:52
Siceloah, DocScrutinizer05 beat me to it :P21:52
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Ja_dont have a 5800, charging it in n900 is an option?21:52
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Siceloas long as it's a working n900 ;)21:53
DocScrutinizer05n900 won't charge with fsckd rootfs21:53
DocScrutinizer05actually, no phone does21:53
DocScrutinizer05but usually you don't mess up your rootfs on featurephones21:53
Siceloyeah. /me still has an N-Gage with a fsckd rootfs. no one can flash it this side of the world21:54
Ja_so, without a battery i cannot do anything right now?21:55
Ja_ok, thanks for your time21:55
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FIQJa_: if you don't have access to another n900 or 5800, I suggest buying an external charger over getting a new battery in your situation22:08
FIQthey're cheap22:08
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gn00byou guys (or girls) are great! it works. thank you for taking the time with me.22:09
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DocScrutinizer05gn00b: :-D22:11
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DocScrutinizer05gn00b: now get backupmenu!22:13
infobotmethinks backupmenu is
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vi__freemangordon: ping.22:16
* vi__ psssht22:17
* vi__ cracks a beer.22:17
gn00bgot it. thanx again.22:21
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Ja_@FIQ you think connecting the battery to the acp-7e charger by a couple of wires would work?23:06
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ShadowJKI wouldn't do that23:15
ShadowJKthe output voltage is too high, either the battery takes damage or the battery's circuitry takes damage23:15
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