IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-07-12

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DocScrutinizer05kerio: aiui missing is the signalling from USM ENUM power negotiation to charger max current, anf the replacement for hald-addon-bme00:29
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keriothe what?00:29
kerio"It also detect USB/host charger and dedicated/wallcharger, so working without user interaction."00:30
kerio-- Pali,
keriohell, you can even force a particular mode in addition to going with auto mode00:30
DocScrutinizer05hell, *I* specified that00:31
kerioso what's the missing signalling?00:31
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure if pali implemented anything regardin that, but when you plug your N900 to a PC via USB hub, the hub will tell (actually PC will) "N900, you can draw max 300mA, as PC delivers 500 and I need 100 and there's a kbd as well that needs another 100)00:33
DocScrutinizer05this is happening deep in USB drivers, and I dunno how tightly pali coupled that to charger chip00:33
kerioso would setting the n900 to charger mode make it such as much power as it can?00:34
DocScrutinizer05I'd hope not too tight since it's a complex theme with lots of niche cases that work slightly different to usual case00:34
kerioit sounds dangerous00:35
kerio(for the host and the rest of the devices)00:35
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DocScrutinizer05it *might* result in N900 suck 500mA unconditionally, and that *might* cause some PC to blow chunks, usually under windows and sw side, but occasionally even hw side00:35
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keriothe sheevaplug comes to mind, actually00:36
kerioits power supply can barely sustain 500mA plus the rest of the system00:36
kerioplugging in "bad" usb devices can and will cause the PSU to blow up00:36
keriowell, not really, but it'll stress it00:36
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DocScrutinizer05what's much more lacking in daily usage though is the hald-addon-bme and that allows hal to display meaningful status of charger etc00:37
DocScrutinizer05and in the end takes care to shut down system gracefully instead of simply pulling the plug when battery is completely on its knees00:38
kerioso... the battery icon?00:38
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keriooh right, there's also the graceful shutdown00:38
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DocScrutinizer05I *think* there should be a better way not involving HAL and the bq24140/bq27x00 and bluetooth and whatnot, since iirc the twl4030 has two thresholds, one for graceful and one for ultimate shutdown. Alas iirc this isn't used00:41
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DocScrutinizer05for sure you'll get no battery icon and no bat-low warnings without hald-addon-bme00:42
DocScrutinizer05and 80% of the crappy acme-battery-monitors out there will cease to work00:43
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keriohm, what's the twl?00:45
kerioas opposed to bq00:45
vi__apparently pali has no taste for dill sauce.00:47
vi__I wish FMG would keep a blog like that.00:47
SpeedEviltwl is the TI companion chip that does power managment, USB PHY (in some cases, not the n900, and some other stuff00:48
vi__It would be majorly beneficial when he comes to try and find work post uni.00:48
kerioi see00:48
kerioisn't that what BME uses?00:49
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MrPingug evening01:23
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* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to rite lengty explanation to kerio01:52
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: for what?01:52
* DocScrutinizer05 decides against it01:52
DocScrutinizer05kerio: no01:52
chem|stbetter explain to me how to get the libs in the right place for building armel targets01:52
DocScrutinizer05ouch, noob here01:52
DocScrutinizer05yawning noob01:53
chem|stusually $PATH has it01:53
DocScrutinizer05libraries? hardly01:53
chem|stbut no it is looking somewhere in the target compiler directory01:53
chem|stwell a package having -dev at the end should have postinstall script looking if it is running from device or sdk and place the libs at the right place, no?01:54
DocScrutinizer05libraries are "fun" stuff01:55
chem|sthad a symlink loop a while ago01:55
DocScrutinizer05pretty decent info01:57
chem|stapp-management should change to something like there is a base system all can use, special stuff needs to be packed with the program01:57
DocScrutinizer05you're free to do that01:57
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chem|stdebian should start something like that and have "stable" announced 'base'01:58
DocScrutinizer05man ld-linux01:58
chem|stI don't care about fscked suse or foobuntu01:58
chem|stI am familiar with ld-linux02:00
chem|stbut usually everything works over her02:00
DocScrutinizer05also with ld-library-path?02:00
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DocScrutinizer05and the always ignored ldconfig ;-p02:01
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chem|stI should buy a new netbook the first day it is on the market, again. 15 kernels and at least 100h later I had a working device and was used to booting into init 1 every second boot02:04
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Macertape a raspi to an lcd screen02:17
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RST38hMeanwhile: Bloodsucking Parasite Named After Bob Marley04:11
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RST38hThree out of every five major patent suits involve Apple04:19
louis__How many in here does still use N900 as their main phone?04:20
GeneralAntillesI did. For today.04:20
GeneralAntillesIt made me realize exactly how shitty the Harmattan browser is.04:21
SpeedEvilI just moved my main 'landline' onto it.04:21
louis__@GeneralAntilles Well. The default browser in N900 is pretty slow.04:22
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GeneralAntillesDespite that it actually works.04:22
GeneralAntillesI can actually visit websites and browse them.04:22
SpeedEviland click on small links04:22
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GeneralAntillesUnlike with the various WebKit-based piles of poo that are passed-off as browsers by other platforms.04:22
SpeedEvilWhat about the upcoming piles of chrome?04:23
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louis__@GeneralAntilles What websites? N9's browser works fine for me.04:23
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GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, Google can go die in a fire.04:24
RST38hGeneral: Use Opera04:24
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!04:24
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I in many ways agree, though I've ordered a nexus 7.04:24
louis__RST38h: Opera doesn't integrate nicely niether into Maemo or MeeGo.04:25
RST38hlouis: it integrates nicely enough for me04:25
louis__RST38h: When you open it on N900 it shows a keyboard right?04:26
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jpinxlouis__: my n900 is main phone, main computer and occasional modem for my laptop04:33
louis__jpinx: Nice04:34
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jpinxlouis__: the browser sux - depending on the specific site (how scripty/flashy it is) but that's life ;)04:35
louis__I feel like there're more community apps and open source apps in development for the N900, than the N9.04:35
jpinxlouis__: there almost certainly is,but a lot of it is too technical for me04:37
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louis__jpix: Have you tried some browser under development for N900 like the midori browser? :)04:38
jpinxI tried midori a while back - it's worse than the standard04:39
louis__jpix: Loading website or the interface?04:40
jpinxlouis__: if you want to be fancy, install a chroot, install debian with really basic X and install swiftfox (stripped down firefox)04:40
louis__I've tried Chromium in Easy Debian ;)04:41
* jpinx is allergic to google04:41
jpinxI have every script/cookie/flash blocker known to man installed ;)  speeds thing up  a lot04:42
* louis__ does only use Google for searching.04:42
jpinxlouis__: use duckduck04:42
louis__jpinx: It's based on Bing right?04:43
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jpinxgo and research it ;)04:43
louis__Right okay ;)04:45
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I was thinking about it, too.04:46
GeneralAntillesI have a fascination with 7" tablets even though I have no use for them in my life.04:46
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I was considering an upgrade of my Wopad i7 tablet to one with 1G of RAM - and it was either a no-name chinese one for $150ish, or one with a _much_ faster processor, bluetooth, high res screen, ... for $19904:47
GeneralAntillesYeah, it looks nice04:48
GeneralAntillesSupposedly being sold around cost.04:48
SpeedEvilIt's actually almost exactly the same measurements as my existing tablet04:48
SpeedEvilto a couple of mm04:48
ShadowJKnexus7 pricing is weird. Can understand in us gooogle is hoping on google play content, but in UK nexus7 wont get all that, yet comes with same peanuts price.. and in eu the google play situatuin is presumably similar to UK, yet price is double..04:50
SpeedEvilI dunno.04:51
SpeedEvilI recently bought a book on google play.04:51
SpeedEvilAdmittedly - more would  be good.04:51
* ShadowJK is considering an Asus TF700 with keyboard dock..04:51
GeneralAntillesGoogle's got so much cash04:52
GeneralAntillesSpreading Android is probably more important than making bucks on commodity hardware.04:52
ShadowJKavailability is shitty though.04:52
ShadowJKAnd also I keep thinking it'd be infinitely more useful with a proper os :)04:52
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yeah, well, when there's a proper mobile OS available. . . .04:53
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles; well it's essentially a laptop but with android04:53
GeneralAntillesOh, the TF700?04:53
* ShadowJK wonders if he can buy from google play uk store, and if not, if that would violate eu single markets directives :)04:54
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles; yes04:54
SpeedEvilamazon store is US only - for android04:55
jpinxShadowJK: needs a remote shell ;)04:57
SpeedEvilI want the next tablet I buy to have pop-out quadcopter blades.04:58
SpeedEvilSo I can't drop it.04:58
SpeedEvilIt does not have to be made out of a cat.04:59
SpeedEvilThough I'd pay extra.04:59
GeneralAntillesMight be smelly04:59
* jpinx gives SpeedEvil a mini-parachute04:59
jpinxSpeedEvil: fwiw - I saw heavy duty silicon cases for various phones and tablets in the market - and the guy demonstrating their "bouncy-ness" ;)05:01
SpeedEvilI have wondered about doing something with some CF fabric.05:02
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louis__The USB port broke on my N900 :/05:19
jpinxlouis__: there is reams about fixing that on the web05:20
jpinxSpeedEvil: fwiw - I use my n900 standing on buses etc and I use a wrist-strap -- both to prevent it clattering on the floor and to deter snatchers ;)05:21
jpinxit also means I can let go deliberately to find money for tickets etc and not worry05:22
* jpinx 's only real gripe with the n900 is the high battery use05:23
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louis__jpinx: Seems like you have to be every good with a soldering iron:
jpinxlouis__: reasonable - and use a very fine pointed soldering iron05:28
jpinxlouis__: you can do the same trick with araldite or similar, but be very careful to not be messy ;)05:28
louis__jpinx: Too bad it's hard to just buy a N900 motherboard w/ all things attached except cover.05:29
jpinxlouis__: I buy any "broken" n900's I find if they are cheap - just for the parts05:29
jpinxsome only need cleaned and reflashed ;)05:30
louis__jpinx: It's hard to find broken N900's on ebay.05:31
* jpinx is not in USA05:31
* louis__ is not in USA either.05:33
louis__I live in Denmark, Europe so I find parts from either germany or UK,05:33
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* jpinx travels a lot ;)05:38
* louis__ have 2x N900s with broken USB, and 1x with broken mic. Have brought them used.05:45
louis__And 1x N9 with stock power button!05:45
* louis__ should be hired as crash tester for Nokia/Jolla.05:46
jpinxlouis__: sounds like you have easily got the makings of at least 2 n900's ;)05:49
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LaoLang_coolhi, where is the audio file of camera when taking a photo?05:50
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louis__Do you use some nice software for your N900? :)05:54
jpinxlouis__: nope -I played with chroot et a few years ago but my situation requires me to reboot often and setting it up every time was too much of a pain05:56
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louis__Well. I use IM on both N900 and now N9 and it just kills the battery life ;/06:03
louis__But I really miss my N900.06:06
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cehtehbtw: DocScrutinizer some porn for you:
jpinxlouis__: yea - battery life is a big issue - I have a little 2xAA charger, but even that will not top up enough for 24 hours use06:35
ShadowJKWith stock kernel, some of those 2xaa things can actually end up drawing more power on the device than they contribute06:35
jpinxlouis__: and the more fancy software you run - the more battery it munches06:35
jpinxShadowJK: yea - you have to be careful ;)06:36
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ShadowJKBecause with stock kernel there's extra 80-100mA power draw whenever anything at all is connected to usb port06:36
cehtehanyone still uses the stock kernel? :)06:37
ShadowJKwith powerkernel this doesn't happen if you connect chargers06:37
jpinxlouis__: I run my n900 with minimal screen lighting, shortest time off, etc, but the real issue is gprs/wifi -- it totally gobbles battery06:37
cehtehwith some tweaks and power kernel one can get okish runtimes06:38
ShadowJKgprs and wifi are pretty low consumption for me, on my main device on which I run xchat and many many channels, I'd get about 20 hours or more of standby06:39
cehtehof course, more would be better06:39
cehtehwifi takes a lot when listening to webradio06:39
ShadowJKor about 3 days without stuff running06:39
cehteh(including playing mp3)06:39
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ShadowJKuh, yes :)06:40
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ShadowJKYou're looking at 4-6 hours there06:40
cehtehalso cell switchen where gprs is bad covered costs a lot power06:40
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ShadowJKYeah I noticed I was burning through power like crazy on gprs when I was out at sea06:40
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cehtehcycling trough the black forrest is already bad enough :P06:41
ShadowJKThe forrest here has rather good coverage on gsm06:41
jpinxcehteh: yea - I often switch to ofline mode when travelling06:41
jpinxfwiw the mains charger can often not keep up with consumption06:42
ShadowJKThat's really exceptional in my experience06:42
ShadowJKAt that rate the N900 should be getting quite warm too06:42
jpinxit does ;)06:43
ShadowJKThat must be atrociously bad coverage :)06:43
ShadowJKOr IM/IRC on 3g06:43
jpinxit is ;)06:43
jpinx2.5G with very patchy coverage even when standing still06:44
ShadowJKWell it's like, one bar from full doubles power consumption, approx :)06:44
ShadowJKin my experience06:44
jpinx2 bars showing atm,,,,,06:44
jpinxso 3 down -06:44
jpinxoctuplets the consumption ? :(06:45
ShadowJKAt some point it just goes slower instead06:46
ShadowJKdata transfer06:46
jpinxit does that too :(06:46
jpinxI'm in the realm of bytes/s06:47
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eddybit's so nice, except it's just for Android and iOS :(08:16
kerioeddyb: android emulation layer gogogogo08:17
eddybkerio: the only problem with that is Java08:17
eddybthe more Java, the slower and crappier it gets08:17
keriomeh, JITs are pretty fast08:18
eddybyeah, but, it's a mess of different things08:18
eddybanyway, what's NITdroid?08:18
kerioa miserable little pile of secrets08:19
kerioand by secrets i mean binary blobs08:19
kerioit's android for nokia internet tablets08:19
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kerioaka the worst of both worlds08:19
eddybbut is it a full OS or just a compat layer?08:20
kerioit's a full OS08:20
kerioit's android08:20
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eddybkerio: wait, chrom{e,ium} doesn't have a single line of Java in it08:27
kerioi really hope it's completely native code08:28
eddybthe version for android either has a platform-specific layer (maybe Java) or it just uses X08:28
eddyb(and any other generic linux stuff)08:28
eddybthe problem with Google Play is that you need attached devices08:29
eddybCURRENT VERSION: 18.0.1025123 << and it's also old08:30
eddyb lol, google is trying everything08:33
keriooh god, it's a mac mini with a crappier OS08:34
eddybI wouldn't say crappier OS, but rather "crazy architecture"08:35
eddybthey took linux, put chrome on top of it, and written all the apps in HTML508:36
kerioi would say crappier OS08:40
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jpinxit's a cool concept, but you have to trail a lot of usb cables around with it, or spare batteries for your bluetooth mouse, kbd, etc08:41
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eddybkerio: it's not even an OS08:44
eddybit's a linux kernel and a browser :))08:44
eddybmaybe a X server and a few other things in between, but it's still different from your average OS08:45
jpinxHmmm --  seems to be pretty much closed - no commandline or suchlike08:46
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keriowhy the fuck does qtmobilehotspot need rootsh for?08:51
keriorootsh is a fuckup of the gainroot script for interactive use08:51
kerioit makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to use it in a programmatic way08:51
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Lava_Croftchrome os is pretty much useless in these days of smartphones09:43
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Lava_Croftif you are going to carry around a netbook, you might as well install a real OS on it09:43
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cehtehmodprobe ext410:20
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: ack13:13
DocScrutinizer05kerio: reason: developer didn't know how sudo works13:14
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jogahow does one save in dungeon master/chaos strikes back? ;)13:47
cehtehhehe ... i once started it and remembered looong ago when i played the original on amiga13:48
cehteh('89 or when was that?)13:49
jogaah, *there* it was13:55
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PaliTimmy, update to last CSSU, it will automount any partition on SD card (ext4 too)14:04
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kerioDocScrutinizer: i gave in ._.15:29
kerioi installed rootsh and set sudo to ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL15:29
kerioi feel dirty15:29
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DocScrutinizer05and right so, it IS dirty15:36
DocScrutinizer05any package depending on rootsh, and particularly on a silly deprecated and already fixed afaik security-nuking property of rootsh should get a ticket and get removed from extras15:40
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* DocScrutinizer05 silently prays MohammadAG did "the right thing" for h-e-n X-P15:42
DocScrutinizer05iirc h-e-n changes own process to root - not exactly nice but still better than messing up (or relying on already messed up) sudoers for everybody and his dog15:43
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DocScrutinizer05with ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL we could nuke sudoers all together, since this is actually the only line you'll ever need ;-P15:45
DocScrutinizer05and malware heaven15:45
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: malware heaven.15:47
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: sure thing - if all an arbitrary rogue JS webpage needs to do is call arbitrary "echo foobar >/etc/hosts" via sudo, then I call this malware heaven, even on N90015:50
vi_webpage JS cannot run shell commands.15:51
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DocScrutinizer05~ $ id15:55
DocScrutinizer05uid=29999(user) gid=29999(users)15:55
DocScrutinizer05~ $ root15:55
DocScrutinizer05~ $ sudo /sbin/hwclock15:55
DocScrutinizer05yeah I know you could still invoke HAM and install whatever shit you like, to break that15:56
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DocScrutinizer05but I never would trust any pkg/app that barfs up on this and requires me to change that to >>ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL<<15:58
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to secure HAM with a HDsudo wrapper16:00
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DocScrutinizer05so each time HAM gets invoked, you need to enter your root password into a (e.g. zenity) textbox requester16:01
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: why just HAM?16:06
DocScrutinizer05what else?16:10
DocScrutinizer05no fapman here ;-P16:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: :c16:11
keriowell, everything that requires superuser, maybe16:11
DocScrutinizer05and no other tool that would allow gaining root16:11
keriothe thing about rootsh, is that it changes a system file16:12
kerioor, rather16:12
kerioit changes a file that belongs to another package16:12
keriovia deb scripts16:12
keriowhich is a big no16:12
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: /usr/sbin/gainroot is something maemoific16:12
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keriothat checks for rd-mode before allowing you in16:12
keriorootsh substitutes that for a different scripts, that just allows you in16:13
DocScrutinizer05well, just because rootsh has no *proper* etc/sudoers.d/* file16:13
infobotjrtools is, like,
DocScrutinizer05for how to fix that16:14
keriono, no, you can always sudo gainroot16:14
kerioit's there in 01sudo, or something16:14
DocScrutinizer05check ~jrtools16:14
kerioless /usr/sbin/gainroot.old16:14
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i am aware of how sudo works, tyvm16:14
DocScrutinizer05so what's your point then?16:15
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keriomy point is that rootsh*.deb has no place in any apt repository ever16:16
DocScrutinizer05you can ship an update, to 1 mio devices16:18
kerioi can what?16:19
DocScrutinizer05that doesn't change /usr/sbin/gainroot but rather installs /usr/sbin/gainroot-too16:19
kerioand makes "root" call gainroot-too --use-su?16:19
keriothe idea behind rootsh is flawed anyway16:20
DocScrutinizer05the idea behinf busybox is flawed16:20
keriothe idea behind busybox is solid16:20
keriotiny shell for shellscripts on small embedded devices with very low resources16:21
DocScrutinizer05yeah, esp regarding busybox su16:21
kerioit's just that it's not a good idea for the n90016:21
keriohm, what does it do?16:21
DocScrutinizer05well, su binary obviously needs suid to work. Now in busybox su is busybox16:23
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DocScrutinizer05I don't like busybox to be set suid16:23
keriooh, i see16:24
keriowell, it's not really a big deal if busybox is written properly16:24
keriono, seriously :(16:25
DocScrutinizer05sure, it's hard enough to make sure and validate code for small binaries with suid, so there are no exploits16:25
DocScrutinizer05for busybox I'm sure it's a matter of hours to be 100% convinced I can trust in it16:26
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: compile it statically, have it drop privileges right at the beginning of main() if it's not called for "su"16:27
DocScrutinizer05I know how to drop privileges, tyvm16:28
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kerioanyway, i'm really sad that i don't have a working cleven because of KP5116:29
keriodammit Pali, y u no push update to repo y(y°#°)y16:29
infobotkerio meant: dammit Pali, y u no push update to repo (y°#°)y16:29
vi_...cleven works fine.16:32
DocScrutinizer05dammit kerio, because he is doing the right thing, and u r asking for the wrong thing16:32
vi_DocScrutinizer05: I believe he should use the development repo for what it was intended for.16:33
vi_Instead of just hosting random .deb files on his blog.16:33
DocScrutinizer05I tend to agree with you, but only in general16:34
keriovi_: yeah but KP51 includes the backported drivers, and it conflicts with the package that cleven depends on16:34
DocScrutinizer05since KP been stuck in promotion to testing for so long, everybody got used to KP living in devel16:35
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kerioso it was either a bad dpkg situation, or no cleven16:36
DocScrutinizer05IOW nobody is using the extras(-testing) versions of KP, so you would break KP for a _lot_ of users that rely on it working stable from extras-devel16:36
vi_DocScrutinizer05: 1850's Americana was used to the slave trade.  It does not make it right.16:36
DocScrutinizer05vi_: I'll simply ignore that16:37
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Well they should wise the fuck up and stop living on the bleeding edge if they cannot handle it.16:37
kerio<DocScrutinizer05> [...] stable from extras-devel16:37
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kerioand really, does anyone actually use anything but -devel?16:39
kerioi mean, anyone who likes to dick around with this kind of stuff16:39
DocScrutinizer05"baaahaaawhaaa!! booohooo! I installed a 'broken' PK from a random blog, and now the maintainer refuses to ship the very KP via estras-devel so I could FIX it" - suuuure16:40
kerioi never said boohoo16:40
vi_FWIW, I do not have kp51.16:40
keriobut yeah, i see16:40
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: if there are problems with dependencies, we should try to find a solution for that by fixing the dependencies16:53
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, linux-kernel-backported-modules or whatever doesn't really conflict with kp5116:54
kerioso i don't really see why Pali made it so16:54
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keriounless the modules depended on a particular KP version16:54
kerioin which case... \_o_/16:54
Palikerio, each kernel module is compiled for one kernel version16:55
keriohm, makes sense16:55
Palibut if you do not make a lot of changes in kernel modules from other version will work too16:55
Palibut must be loaded with force option (to ignore version string)16:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: cleven expects the modules to be in a particular place, which is not the default location (where they *should* be)16:56
kerioperhaps the next linux-backports-modules-power should depend strictly on kp51 and just add the symlinks for the wifi modules16:57
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kerioand it should be marked deprecated/for backwards compat only16:57
DocScrutinizer05well, the probelm seems to be that cleven comes with kernel modules at all16:58
kerioit doesn't16:59
kerioit depends on linux-backports-modules-power16:59
keriowhich makes sense16:59
keriothe fact that it comes with a script to load said modules is the problem, i suppose16:59
DocScrutinizer05it rather should depend on a kernel property, that is provided by a separate kernelmodule pkg, or by PK51+16:59
DocScrutinizer05oooh, I see, it unloads original modules and modprobes the tweaked ones, only during runtime of cleven?17:01
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keriowell, it has a button to toggle that17:02
keriobut yeah17:02
* DocScrutinizer05 hmmms17:03
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: KP should standardize the injection load/unload/query17:04
keriooh hey, Pali made a shellscript for that!17:04
keriohow convenient17:04
DocScrutinizer05Pali: does KP51 ship with both original and tweaked wifi modules? or only with the tweaked ones?17:04
DocScrutinizer05ok, that answers my question I'd guess17:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: both, the weird ones are blacklisted17:05
kerioPali's shellscript is not shipped with kp51 though17:05
DocScrutinizer05kerio: basically you need a new version of cleven for KP5117:06
keriobut how do we make it so that we don't necessarily need a new version of cleven for new versions of KP?17:06
keriofrom cleven's next version onwards, i mean17:06
DocScrutinizer05well, I think KP52 will ship with same script of pali as this one (doesn't yet)17:06
kerioyeah, so Pali should step forward and say "ok, this is how you load/unload the injection drivers"17:07
DocScrutinizer05so the "API'" should stay stable17:07
kerioif eventually we decide injection doesn't need loading anymore, just make those noops for two or three KP versions, marked deprecated, and then remove the script, i s'pose17:07
DocScrutinizer05and cleven needs fix to use that method17:08
kerioi'm still not sure why we can't use the cool drivers for everything, though :(17:08
DocScrutinizer05lxp said they might miss bugfixes17:08
keriohm :(17:09
kerioare the stock modules closed-source?17:09
kerioi mean, the proper nokia ones17:10
DocScrutinizer05I'd just be a brave user and make a noop of the unloading script, and test the tweaked wifi drivers for 'normal' use several weeks. after some users done that, we might consider them "stable" enough for replacing the original ones17:11
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, both normal (in /lib) & packet injection (in /opt)17:14
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: do you do switching via placklisting?17:15
PaliI have loaded packet injection 2 days, but it drain battery17:15
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Paliso packet injection are usefull only for hacking... for normal use is better stock wifi driver17:16
DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall that's been a major problem with those wifi drivers since pr1.017:16
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DocScrutinizer05the problem is the wifi chip firmware doesn't support proper low power / shutdown mode17:17
Paliswicthing is done via rmmod & insmod /full/path17:18
DocScrutinizer05so the chip is always in scan mode17:18
Palimaybe some iwconfig/iw command can fix it?17:19
DocScrutinizer05some time back during pr1.1 or so we had a botch for this problem by unloading the drivers for the time ICD2 didn't scan for AP17:19
DocScrutinizer05(iw coomand) possible, or even rfkill17:20
DocScrutinizer05but I actually think Nokia implemented a patch to the wlan drivers to cope with that17:21
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: different colors would be useful... now it is steady but emergency charging^^17:24
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ECHAN, but yes, steady also means "charging finished"17:24
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: just recognized...17:25
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Paliping lxp17:44
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, maybe this patch helps:;a=commitdiff_plain;h=ab13315af97919fae0e014748105fdc2e30afb2d17:58
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: this patch sure isn't bad, but I don't think it helps with massive powerdrain during wlan not associated to AP18:10
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Palimaybe rebasing lxp patches on top of wireless-testing will help18:11
keriois there a way to just add packet injection to the current drivers?18:11
DocScrutinizer05Pali: good plan I guess18:14
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jean_bratall devices of same platform like N97 had micro USB charging problem or is it the only N900?19:06
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DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: hmm?19:15
DocScrutinizer05n97 is not same platform as n90019:15
DocScrutinizer05n900 has no USB charging problems, not really19:15
DocScrutinizer05n900 has *flashing* problems when battery low19:16
DocScrutinizer05and n900 (like basically any arbitrary other device) won't charge (properly) with messed up software/firmware19:16
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DocScrutinizer05so you can find yourself in a deadlock beween device not charging low battery due to messed firmware, and device not flashing proper firmware due to low battery19:18
edheldilis there a way from the deadlock?19:19
DocScrutinizer05other than that, no charging problems known with N90019:19
DocScrutinizer05yes, edheldil. get a charged battery ;-D19:19
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DocScrutinizer05as, you know... N900 you can swap battery19:20
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edheldilhehe, you are right19:20
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, isn't the emergency charging supposed to fix that problem?19:33
kerioinfobot: don't you dare19:33
DocScrutinizer05emergency charging charges up to 3.7V only, for safety reasons19:34
kerioisn't that high enough to flash?19:34
keriolet's say everything is completely messed up19:34
kerioisn't that high enough to coldflash?19:34
DocScrutinizer05after that the main system is supposed to come up and support charging, if only by telling the charger "no go on, til 4.2"19:34
DocScrutinizer05alas, according to Nokia's eternal wisdom, that's enough for starting NOLO but not enough to allow NOLO to enter flashing mode19:35
keriohahaha nice19:35
kerioi thought coldflashing was less finicky19:36
DocScrutinizer05you can tell by "NOKIA" screen not showing USB icon upper right despite you holding "u"19:36
DocScrutinizer05well, coldflashing means "ROMBL loads NOLO to RAM" it does that unconditionally. NFC what the NOLO in RAM will do then19:37
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DocScrutinizer05My guess though would be: it acts exactly as screwed as the NAND-based NOLO19:38
kerioso you *can* completely bork it19:38
kerioi see19:38
DocScrutinizer05screwed here means: when NOLO detects battery is low, it doesn't allow flashing and rather tries to boot to linux, to start proper charging  :o)19:39
keriois NOLO flashable?19:40
DocScrutinizer05trying to charge when battery is critically low for flashing is a sane idea... if only NOLO wouldn't rely on linux/rootfs for charging19:40
DocScrutinizer05sure is NOLO flashable. That's what coldflashing is all about19:41
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DocScrutinizer05but alas NOLO is closed source, so we couldn't fix this annoyance, even if we wanted to19:41
kerioisn't flashing like, *really* fast?19:42
kerioi mean, how much battery do you actually need for it?19:42
kerioflashing combined+vanilla never took long, here19:42
DocScrutinizer05not that much indeed19:42
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DocScrutinizer05on N9 NOLO learnt to charge19:43
kerioaww, i'm so proud :')19:43
keriois the NOLO closedness enforced?19:43
kerioor it's just that nobody wants to dick around with it because you risk a brick?19:43
DocScrutinizer05ask Nokia19:44
kerioi mean, *could* you flash something else there?19:45
DocScrutinizer05yes, you could19:45
DocScrutinizer05actually people did19:45
DocScrutinizer05NOLO with tweaked splashscreen19:46
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keriohehe, i want someone to write a NOLO replacement called YOLO19:46
DocScrutinizer05I'm not eager to hexedit a charger routine into NOLO binary19:46
keriojust to piss people off19:47
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is there a way to flash NOLO that doesn't involve running it?19:47
DocScrutinizer05errr wut?19:48
keriosay, a way to unbrick a botched NOLO19:48
kerioyou just said that it runs NOLO19:48
kerioafter loading it in ram19:48
DocScrutinizer05it loads a secondary NOLO from USB to RAM, to flash the primary NOLO to NAND19:48
kerioeasy, then :319:49
DocScrutinizer05since yu see you need coldflashing to recover borked NOLO only, you can also see how rarely anybody ruined his NOLO19:50
DocScrutinizer05and usually the recommendation "try coldflashing" is mere BS19:51
DocScrutinizer05given by fools who don't undertand what coldflashing does19:51
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski and me discussed to load an alternative "charging NOLOfake" to RAM, to recover from flatbat deadlock19:52
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DocScrutinizer05feasible but nobody wanna take the duty19:53
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DocScrutinizer05not even when people would buy that piece of software rather than an external battery charger, for same price19:54
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jean_bratlose USB port issue i mean20:26
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jean_bratDocScrutinizer, to make n900 as host for usb devices F and F converter is the only way..20:39
jean_bratis there any other method ? to accomplish this?20:39
DocScrutinizer05the only reasonable waxy20:39
DocScrutinizer05unless you find a readymade adapter from micro-B-USB-Male to USB-A-Female20:40
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DocScrutinizer05something rather hard to find, unless you rework a N8 OTG adapter, or a Samsung adapter may fit I heard20:41
RST38hMeanwhile: Microsoft Kills Windows Gadgets Via Security Update20:41
* RST38h RTOFLs20:41
DocScrutinizer05most sane thing they ever did ;-P20:42
Gh0styF and F connector works fine20:43
Gh0styorder it at dealextreme20:43
Gh0stycosts you a couple of dollar and free shipping20:43
Gh0styRST38h: link?20:44
RST38hDoc: I just hope they will continue the trend and kill more stuff in Windows20:45
RST38hUAC is in front of my mental line20:45
jean_bratgot a link?20:46
jean_bratGh0sty, got a link for USB F&F ?20:48
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jean_bratholy crap..i can buy a 500GB hdd for the price of this converter20:52
jean_bratin my country20:52
jean_brati think i should make my own20:52
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Gh0styfor example20:55
Gh0sty2 for 2.20 dollar20:55
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Gh0stythis could also be an option if it works ...20:56
DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: where do you buy your 500GB disks?20:59
DocScrutinizer05I'm temped to get 100 there21:00
DocScrutinizer0550TB \o/21:00
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jean_bratebay shows 140$ since its imported from america21:02
jean_bratfor a simple F&F converter?21:02
ShadowJKimported from america = $139 p&p21:03
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DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: where do you live? Iran? North Corea? France?21:09
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DocScrutinizer05Barzil? Kuba?21:10
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jean_brati can get n900 for 214$ un officially21:11
DocScrutinizer05so maybe the dealextreme one is cheaper for you?21:11
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DocScrutinizer05or simply try your local flavour of fleaBay21:12
jean_bratgot a link?21:12
DocScrutinizer05dealextreme? see ghosty ^^^21:13
jean_bratdo they ship to asia?21:15
DocScrutinizer05now is TAHT cheap? or what?21:15
ShadowJKdx claims to ship everywhere21:17
ShadowJKUltimtely it's probably down to the reliability of the post system in the destination country. I've heard argentina and russia have high loss rates21:18
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DocScrutinizer05Argentina. I forgot Argentina in my list21:19
DocScrutinizer05Werner almesberger told stories that resembled those of MohammadAG or RST38h21:20
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DocScrutinizer05seems recently they did (or considered to) forbid import of anything21:21
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* DocScrutinizer05 gest a sudden unsolicited attack of nausea about this KDE theme21:24
DocScrutinizer05grey in grey, with grey specular lights21:25
DocScrutinizer05active widows clearly marked by grey titlebar21:26
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DocScrutinizer05windows even21:26
DocScrutinizer05grey systrey with light grey icons and WAAAH one red21:27
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jean_bratUSB M to F converters cables are quite cheap .. less then a doller21:35
Sicelowhere do you live jean_brat?21:36
jean_bratif strip the male end and can solder the F port from an old motherboard21:37
jean_bratshould work?21:37
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Siceloyeah, if you connect them correctly21:39
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Timmycan i enable compcache on a bfs kernel?21:41
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RaimuI thought the BFS Kernel development was aborted.21:57
RaimuOn n900, that is.21:57
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: i think there is some work being done on uboot replacing nolo completly22:02
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DocScrutinizer05I'd be cautious with such things22:04
DocScrutinizer05as much as I'd like to see uBoot doing proper flashing, I'm not holding my breath22:05
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jacekowskinot flashing22:10
jacekowskijust replacing nolo as bootloader22:10
jacekowskiflashing would still be done via nolo and coldflash22:10
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DocScrutinizer05reallyreplacing as bootloader means no more flashing22:18
DocScrutinizer05except via coldflashing which afaik can only do NOLO flashing22:19
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DocScrutinizer05rather make a uBoot-image to "coldflash" aka ramload, which comes with a charger script22:21
DocScrutinizer05or tweak NOLO so it loads from mtd4: 00200000 00020000 "initfs" rather than mtd3: 00200000 00020000 "kernel", only fall back to the latter if in mtd4 there's no useful image to loads and start22:24
DocScrutinizer05this way you have a whole partition for a chainloaded uBoot22:25
DocScrutinizer05even for a minimalistic linux initrd to do all sorts of fancy stuff22:26
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: where's the coldflashing NOLO stored?22:49
kerioon a ROM?22:49
vi__Pali: ping23:00
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Palivi__, pong23:08
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Palikerio, when coldflashing, OMAP bootrom will get boot image via usb to RAM and start it. that image (2nd) will wait for next image (nolo) via usb from flasher, flash it into nand bootloader area and boot it23:10
Paliso coldflashing will flash nolo into nand bootloader area23:11
Paliwithout working nolo in nand23:11
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vi__Pali: love your work.  I owe you a pizza.  Do you have a paypal account?23:14
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jacekowskikerio: it's stored on PC hard drive23:15
jacekowskikerio: and downloaded to n900 via usb to n900 ram23:15
vi__or maybe you will email me your address and I will order one to your house?23:15
jacekowskikerio: and executed from there23:15
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Palivi__, I do not have paypal account23:34
Siceloside question (because i can't think of anyone else to turn to) .. do you think a project to build up a whois server for a given TLD is an overly big undertaking? do you know any channels I can join to get more info on the subject?23:35
Sicelovi__: agreed. Pali is the MAN. \m/23:35
Palivi__, but you can order me a pizza from italy to home in slovakia :-)23:35
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vi__Italy? I do not live in italy.  However, if you paste me a link to a pizza delivery website AND your address AND your preferance of topping I will ensure it is done.23:40
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