IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-07-11

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Raimu	Hands-v32!	00:28
Raimu	My precious!	00:28
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kerio	hmm, need games for maemo	00:29
kerio	wat play	00:29
Raimu	Tapan Kaikki!	00:30
kerio	i already installed aisleriot	00:30
kerio	also, why the hell do i only have 50mb of free space in rootfs? i had 80	00:31
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Raimu	kerio, it's an estimate. Reboot and it might rethink the space.	00:35
cehteh	du -ax \| sort -rn \| less	00:35
Raimu	Some apps don't really respect the mighty opt, either.	00:36
cehteh	optification is broken by design anyways	00:36
kerio	Raimu: how the hell do you play this	00:37
Raimu	cehteh: Still no reason to chuck things randomly into rootfs.	00:37
Raimu	kerio: F* if I know, I used to play it on the PC ten years ago. :D	00:37
kerio	well i just wasted 40mb of my daily ~300	00:38
kerio	:C	00:38
Raimu	I just installed some lightweight puzzle games on my n900, it is not a very good game device.	00:39
Raimu	kerio: Oh noez!	00:39
kerio	also right, ubifs does compression	00:39
Raimu	Yup.	00:39
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DocScrutinizer05	ho ho ho	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	errr	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	pali's shellscripting-fu is ... mellow ;-)	00:48
RiD	hello	00:48
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: oh you	00:48
kerio	what's the "correct" way to find out if a process is running, btw?	00:48
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DocScrutinizer05	well, that's one of the less bizarre things done in this plai's script: sth like if ! pidof $process >/dev/null; then	00:49
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* DocScrutinizer05 boggles at contaptions like "if $(cat $envvarfoo\|grep -q "pattern" ); then		00:51
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kerio	it's especially weird because this man page tells me that pidof exits either with 1 or with 2	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	err	00:51
* DocScrutinizer05 boggles at contaptions like "if $(echo $envvarfoo\|grep -q "pattern" ); then		00:51
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: eh?	00:52
kerio	no, nvm	00:52
* DocScrutinizer05 rises eyebrow on pidof(8)		00:52
kerio	weird numbered list that got turned into 1 and 2 instead of 0 and 1	00:53
DocScrutinizer05	wtf is this sbin/root?	00:53
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DocScrutinizer05	maybe because no normal process got the perms to read other user's cmdlines from /proc?	00:53
DocScrutinizer05	on some more sane / safe unix setups	00:54
jacekowski	only with grsec	00:56
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: it's the same binary as killall5	00:57
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: then whi is man pidof 8?	00:57
DocScrutinizer51	why	00:57
DocScrutinizer51	kerio: lol	00:57
DocScrutinizer51	ok	00:57
kerio	i have no idea why	00:57
kerio	probably hysterical raisins	00:57
kerio	anyway, killall5 is not suid root here on debian	00:57
DocScrutinizer51	that would be pretty BAD	00:58
DocScrutinizer51	trend is to deprecate suid all together	00:59
kerio	of course	00:59
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DocScrutinizer51	basically there's little besides su that needs suid	01:00
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: that's so you can find pid of a process	01:00
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: by it's name	01:00
kerio	jacekowski: it doesn't need to be suid	01:01
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: I know what pidof does	01:01
jacekowski	i know	01:01
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jacekowski	it's part of posix standard i believe	01:01
jacekowski	and it's always been there	01:01
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: I asked why it's in man group 8	01:01
kerio	DocScrutinizer51: wait	01:01
kerio	pidof is busybox here on maemo	01:02
kerio	._.	01:02
DocScrutinizer51	sure	01:02
jacekowski	dunno	01:02
DocScrutinizer51	everything is messybox on maemo	01:02
jacekowski	well, 8 is for daemons as well	01:02
jacekowski	and that's where pidof would be used	01:03
jacekowski	as in, daemon startup scripts and stuff	01:03
DocScrutinizer51	hmmmmm	01:03
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DocScrutinizer51	basically 8 is stuff you need to be root to use it	01:03
jacekowski	nah	01:04
jacekowski	8 System administration commands (usually only for root)	01:04
jacekowski	usually	01:04
jacekowski	anyways	01:05
DocScrutinizer51	hmm	01:05
jacekowski	reading processes cmdline is not a root only thing	01:05
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jacekowski	which is why passwords in cmdline are VERY bad thing on linux	01:06
DocScrutinizer51	seems pidof comes with some more or less nasty options	01:06
kerio	DocScrutinizer51: but it can be busybox-power!	01:06
kerio	with more power!	01:06
kerio	and stuff like swap priority	01:06
DocScrutinizer51	hear the distant sound.... :	01:07
DocScrutinizer51	........ pling .......	01:07
DocScrutinizer51	?	01:07
kerio	no, i don't hear it	01:09
kerio	and really, busybox-power is apparently a real thing	01:10
DocScrutinizer51	each time you hear it, a useful answer vanished from this universe	01:10
kerio	i haven't really risked installing it, because it'll probably break stuff	01:10
kerio	but it's a less messy messybox, in -devel	01:10
DocScrutinizer51	actually even when you don't listen, it still vanishes	01:10
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: and not to forget... god kills a kitten	01:10
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DocScrutinizer05	and takes a token out of kerio's jar	01:16
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: actually I noticed you already sufferend from recoil, when I ignored a potentially meaningful question of yours a few hours ago, as you placed yourself into troll-mode-tagged mode on my screen, two posts before	01:18
kerio	hm, which one?	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	nah, I CBA to scan backscroll to spot it now	01:19
kerio	it's ok, i'll just stop asking you questions	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	up to you	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	a hint: I guess it's been over at #harmattan	01:20
kerio	that would be extremely unlikely	01:20
kerio	because i'm not in #harmattan	01:21
kerio	ooh, i think it was something related to charging while in host mode	01:21
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, I guess it was #maemo-ssu	01:22
DocScrutinizer05	I mixed things up	01:22
RiD	argh	01:22
* RiD gets mad while trying to make a loopable engine sound		01:22
SpeedEvil	RiD: just go 'argh' into a mic, and loop it	01:23
RiD	more like vrooom	01:23
kerio	i would play the shit out of a racing game that has sounds made by a dude with his own voice	01:23
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* RiD steals idea and wins millions		01:24
RiD	i crossfade the $BLEEP$ sound on the end with bits of the start	01:24
RiD	then i cut the start the perfect place so that it is continuous but.... it never is	01:24
* RiD rages		01:24
kerio	just get a sound from the interwebs	01:25
RiD	no, they suck	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	RiD: your best bet are loops of <100ms length	01:26
RiD	not very good on muscle car engines	01:26
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SpeedEvil	youtube	01:27
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI-txzG3BZQ	01:28
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DocScrutinizer05	RiD: btw sox is a nice tool. streching length of the sample to maybe 10 times while keeping pitch might help to find a good segment for loop	01:29
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RST38h	Meanwhile: The city authorities of San Francisco have banned departmental purchases of Apple hardware after Cupertino dropped out of the Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool (EPEAT) green-standards scheme	01:34
* RST38h laughs satanically		01:34
jacekowski	it's probably cheaper for apple to lose that and well, not worry about environment	01:35
SpeedEvil	The certification is largely bollocks.	01:35
jacekowski	like any other	01:35
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	01:36
SpeedEvil	I mean - it has sane aspects.	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	SpeedEvil: awesome video	01:36
SpeedEvil	But in practice, recycleability in terms of removing components nowadays is essentially meaningless.	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	RiD: (loop sound) I think I recall several audio editors have support functions to find optimal looping points in sound samples	01:39
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DocScrutinizer05	the better ones have a way to define windows for start end end of loop, and the function will try to find two sequences which sounds alike in those both windows	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	s/end end/and end/.	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	then set the point for crossfade exactly in the middle of both sequences, and remix	01:42
SpeedEvil	The right way is generally to do it in frequency space, as you can blur the ends easier.	01:42
DocScrutinizer05	sure	01:42
DocScrutinizer05	a "crossfade" in frequency domain is amplitude as well as spectrum, while in wave/time domain you can only fade amplitude	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	think of it as "morph" for sounds instead of pictures	01:45
RiD	calm down i'm still new in audio editing O_o	01:45
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RiD	have experience on photoshop but audio editing is still new for me	01:46
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DocScrutinizer05	basically once you learn synaestesia, it's all the same ;-D	01:47
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DocScrutinizer05	synesthesia*	01:48
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DocScrutinizer05	and no, that's only half kidding	01:49
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RiD	i need perfect pitch ears too :D	01:49
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DocScrutinizer05	actually once you look at your sound as a frequency plot, it's just a problem of how to bend this "picture" to a cylinder that doesn't have any visible dicontinuities	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrogram	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	of course! there are 5 alternative terms, DocScrutinizer05 used none of them	01:55
RiD	DocScrutinizer05 not easy to spot on engine sounds	01:55
RiD	what	01:55
RiD	oh	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	spectrogram, Also known as spectral waterfalls, sonograms, voiceprints, or voicegrams	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	I used "frequency plot"	01:56
RiD	you were close	01:56
RiD	(notice the little bit of sarcasm used)	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	i'm nototrious for that	01:57
DocScrutinizer05	(not sarcasm, though... sarcasm as well :-P )	01:57
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DocScrutinizer05	spectral density plot would have somewhat been to the point	01:58
DocScrutinizer05	well, that's why I gave you a decent URL instead	01:58
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DocScrutinizer05	btw, on a loosely related topic: all audio compression algos (like GSM, MP3) mostly profit from completely discriminating the phase info from original signal, only keeping amplitude and frequency vs time	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	the rest is mostly quantization, plus a lil bit of compression ala gz	02:05
RiD	and flac seems to be less cpu intensive than mp3 on n900	02:06
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RiD	the story is different when i start the EQ	02:07
DocScrutinizer05	quite logical, since it has to "create" less data	02:07
DocScrutinizer05	basically in flac you only have a specialized compression, but no fft	02:07
DocScrutinizer05	fft is cpu-heavy	02:08
ShadowJK	Also overlapped discrete cosine transforms instead of block by block	02:08
RiD	i dont even know what fft is o_o	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	fast fourier transformation	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	or s/fast/finite	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	nah, I think I mix that with FIR	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	finite impulse response	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	which is related to fft somehow, but still something different	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: yep, quite likely. Though I never looked into flac in detail	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	err, I did, but that's like 5 years in the past	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	I seem to recall I wondered wtf they do with stereo	02:12
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DocScrutinizer05	isn't it like they never do L+R, L-R before compression?	02:13
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RiD	i have no idea :D	02:13
DocScrutinizer05	btw while phase is mostly meaningless for normal monaural audio, for stereo it is quite important. Particularly for bass	02:16
RiD	which means..? :o	02:17
cehteh	doesnt flac doe fft too? .. just calcuclating the error, keeping it below the quantizattion limit?	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	which means running stereo audio thru a fft equalizer that discriminates phase info might result in poor stereo localization/definition and weak bass since out of phase	02:18
DocScrutinizer05	cehteh: nope, flac is meant to be lossless	02:18
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DocScrutinizer05	so it just does compression	02:19
RiD	maybe that's why some N900 players (such as SOmeplayer) equalizers seem to have the 30Hz band "flipped", but in fact it's not. (??)	02:19
DocScrutinizer05	cehteh: [11.07.2012 01:08:09] <ShadowJK> Also overlapped discrete cosine transforms instead of block by block	02:19
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RiD	On music that contains a lot of low-freq bass (w/e) boosting up the 30hz band will actually increase the bass, but on most songs it seems to reduce. Therefore, if you reduce it to -24dB you might actually hear more bass. Doesn't happen on rockbo	02:21
RiD	rockbox*	02:21
* DocScrutinizer05 once had a "Denon Audio Technical CD" with "speaker phase. the following signal is a 10 seconds white noise played in phase, then 2 s later out of phase"		02:21
* DocScrutinizer05 would like to check what mp3 encoding does to that		02:22
RiD	well, the more mp3 compressed a song is the more joined left and right seem to be. In my simple language :>	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	yep, quite precisely phrased exactly what I'd expect to see, err hear	02:23
RiD	read*	02:24
RiD	d'oh. ^ ignore that	02:24
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DocScrutinizer05	well, also "read" - on any decent audio signal analyzer ;-)	02:26
RiD	foobar has a spectrum vizualizer w/e	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	audacity should have one too, iirc	02:27
* DocScrutinizer05 fires a zypper install audacity		02:27
DocScrutinizer05	\o/ already "i"	02:28
DocScrutinizer05	"Hallo bei Audacity 1.3.13-beta!" :-((	02:29
RiD	what	02:29
DocScrutinizer05	there's audacity2.0 since quite some time already	02:30
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DocScrutinizer05	https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?project=multimedia%3Aapps&package=audacity	02:35
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LaoLang_cool	hi, how to open a pdf file from cli? osso_pdfview foo.pdf doesn't work...	02:50
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DocScrutinizer05	probably needs dbus cmd	03:04
DocScrutinizer05	iirc all mime type project file opening is via dbus msg calling a proxy which starts the executable and passes the pathname/filename to it	03:05
RST38h	...When a sufficiently large number of subjects are exposed to this effect, further complications arise in terms of mental health and the integrity of spacetime.	03:06
DocScrutinizer05	try dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="com.nokia.osso_browser" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.$1 string:"$2"	03:08
DocScrutinizer05	or check what dbus-monitor shows when you click/open the pdf file in filemanager	03:10
* DocScrutinizer05 should listen to own advice for osso-notes		03:12
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LaoLang_cool	DocScrutinizer05, will try it, but what is $1 and $2?...	03:27
DocScrutinizer51	dunno	03:27
LaoLang_cool	O_o...	03:27
DocScrutinizer51	but evidently filemanager opens pdf files	03:27
LaoLang_cool	yes...	03:28
DocScrutinizer51	use dbus-monitor to get exact call to accomplish that	03:28
DocScrutinizer51	I bet several other users here could give better advice, direct pointer to howto, or even command	03:29
LaoLang_cool	DocScrutinizer51, dbus-monitor's output is hard to understand...	03:30
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DocScrutinizer51	there's a lot of useless unrealted stuff in there. grep -C10 'your pdffilename'	03:35
RiD	pedofilename :/	03:37
RiD	.pdf 's hidden message	03:38
RST38h	*.pedo?	03:38
RiD	.pdf	03:38
RiD	also known to be a diminutive of .pedophile	03:38
RiD	why "f" instead of "ph"? because most of file extensions have 3 chars	03:39
RiD	that's it. It's a completely legitimate explanation	03:39
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ShadowJK	flac has no dct I think	04:36
ShadowJK	I see you were discussing something else than I thought	04:37
DocScrutinizer05	>>FLAC uses linear prediction to convert the audio samples to a series of small, uncorrelated numbers (known as the residual), which are stored efficiently using Golomb-Rice coding. It also uses run-length encoding for blocks of identical samples, such as silent passages.<<	04:38
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DocScrutinizer05	aha, I recalled something wrong: >> Channels can be grouped in cases like stereo and 5.1 channel surround to take advantage of interchannel correlations to increase compression<<	04:40
ShadowJK	I'd myself make them mono and code the mono channel and the difference separately	04:41
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ShadowJK	voice codecs are kinda fascinagting in that they model the human soundproducing apparatus :P	04:44
DocScrutinizer05	yup	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	that's why music sounds awful via GSM	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	but that's also the reason you can transmit pretty clear voice signals via 9600bps	04:48
DocScrutinizer05	you wouldn't need much more to control the "muscles" of an atrificial throat	04:50
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SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciVXUHTN10 - a man with an artificial throat. (seemingly)	04:56
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DocScrutinizer05	nice	05:24
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DocScrutinizer05	beatboxing meets frippertronics	05:48
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stardiviner	What about Python3 on Maemo5 now ?	05:49
DocScrutinizer05	afaik nobody is using it?	05:50
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LaoLang_cool	wow, modrana is a must-have app in maemo	06:14
LaoLang_cool	it should replace the out-dated built-in ovi maps :)	06:14
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DocScrutinizer05	why is everybody so eager to replace anything??	06:35
DocScrutinizer05	WTF became of "freedom of choice" in FOSS?	06:36
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DocScrutinizer05	REPLACE camera, REPLACE kernel, REPLACE mediaplayer, REPLACE maps - dang, I get angry hearing that all the time	06:40
robbiethe1st	Well, if the original can't be /modified/, it should be /replaced/?	06:41
DocScrutinizer05	instead of feeling happy they got a choice, people think they have to force their own preferences onto others. dafaq!	06:41
DocScrutinizer05	robbiethe1st: BULLSHIT!	06:42
robbiethe1st	Why not?	06:42
robbiethe1st	Isn't that the whole point to OSS stuff? It may not do what you want, but you can /modify/ it to(and hopefully, someone else has already done it and made it a config option)?	06:43
DocScrutinizer05	I got 3 maps apps on my N900, and I'll get into a blood frency when somebody comes REPLACING one of them with something HE thinks is better for me	06:43
robbiethe1st	Well, if you mean replacing as in 'removing the alternative', then....	06:43
DocScrutinizer05	yes, that's what everybody means by REPLACE	06:43
robbiethe1st	I would expect it to be replaced as in busybox-power; it's an option that replaces the original, but is non-mandatory	06:44
robbiethe1st	(and conflicts with the original)	06:44
robbiethe1st	Now, what the 'default' option should be, that can be argued(i.e. whether the stock or modified version of something should be in, say, cssu, but...	06:45
DocScrutinizer05	cssu wil NOT REPLACE anything, it will offer FREEDOM OF CHOICE whenever possible	06:46
robbiethe1st	Doesn't it replace stock packages with 'upgraded'/modified ones?	06:47
robbiethe1st	Like some of the custom-patched versions?	06:47
DocScrutinizer05	if there's any such thing like a default, user should have a select option to make "default" whatever she likes	06:47
DocScrutinizer05	indeed somebody managed to push nicocam into cssu, on of the root sins	06:48
DocScrutinizer05	one of*	06:48
robbiethe1st	Depends... I don't see what's wrong with alternate packages that conflct with/provide the original package; On this device, there's not enough space for all versions of everything, so...	06:49
DocScrutinizer05	esp since for camera it's utterly simple to offer a default-selector	06:49
robbiethe1st	True; that's something I've had for many months...	06:49
robbiethe1st	I have two camera packages + flashlight + mbarcode	06:49
DocScrutinizer05	since friggin nicocam my DSP locks up when taking photos - comment of cssu-responsibles: "well, get a proper kernel-power, it's a bug that's fixed in there" FINE¡¡¡	06:51
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DocScrutinizer05	what exactly is the benefit of nicocam in cssu for me now?	06:52
robbiethe1st	I'd argue that if the kernel-power is included/marked as a dependancy of nicocam, then that's fine. Otherwise...	06:52
* ShadowJK guesses nicocam isn't feature complete with the default cam? :P		06:53
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* DocScrutinizer05 figures arch linux / younameit distro upgrade REPLACING firefox by opera		06:57
DocScrutinizer05	even replacing msie by firefox would kill the system	06:58
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DocScrutinizer05	that's why you always got a selector which progarm shall be default on your system	06:59
DocScrutinizer05	and nobody ever dares to replace stuff, unless inevitable	07:00
DocScrutinizer05	just fools rushing over cssu think cssu is meant to replace everything	07:01
DocScrutinizer05	(I don't mean my friends the maintainers)	07:02
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DocScrutinizer05	this whole thinking is probably a result of Nokia's idea to ship a 'monolithic' OS revision including 'everything'. So people don't think "fine, I got modrana now. Could I recover the space (on screen, in storage) taken up by ovimaps? Could I change which app addressbook will open when clicking on an address?" - they stay in Nokia's walled garden and think "duh, how could I replace this friggin ovimaps?"	07:16
cehteh	i hate it when i accidentally start ovi maps .. its so slow to kill it :P	07:17
DocScrutinizer05	well, who doesn't?	07:20
cehteh	someone at nokia either liked it OR wanted to punish their customers	07:22
cehteh	that didnt worked out .. so they moved to windows phone :P	07:22
robbiethe1st	Oh, that reminds me... speaking of low-level mods, remember many months ago I wondered about 'pausing' browser/browserd when the screen is off?	07:23
robbiethe1st	Turns out, it works great; 99.9% of the time, windows	07:23
robbiethe1st	'resume' just fine(transparently), and I have none of the swap-lag I used to get as the app got swapped out of ram while waiting. Battery usage is /far/ better - browser windows can be left open without impacting battery life now.	07:24
robbiethe1st	I've had a /couple/ of crashes of browser/browserd, but, well, that happens normally, and considering I use it every day(with multiple pause/resume cycles a day)...	07:25
robbiethe1st	(and, I might add, I have far more crashes on my desktop with firefox than I do with the stock browser, so...)	07:26
robbiethe1st	Aanyway, I think that's enough of that. I do suggest everyone who's interested, try it out.	07:28
cehteh	how did you do that? dbus scripts?	07:30
cehteh	kill -STOP it or what?	07:31
robbiethe1st	Dbus script that calls kill -STOP on "lock" event	07:31
robbiethe1st	and then resume on the unlock event	07:32
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cehteh	that was my guess ,, fine :) .. i shall do that	07:32
robbiethe1st	I forget where the dbus event script thingie is located, but...	07:33
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jpinx	how do I get to rsync from my laptop to the SDcard of my n900 when I have it mounted sshfs over usb. I keep getting operation not permitted.	07:47
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cehteh	jpinx: why dont you use rsync over ssh instead sshfs .. that would be far more efficient	08:11
kerio	cehteh: [citation needed]	08:12
kerio	unless he's updating files, the transfer protocol is the same	08:13
cehteh	cehteh saied that :P	08:13
kerio	hell, rsync does a bunch more checks	08:13
cehteh	kerio: sshfs has much more network turnarounds for metadata	08:13
kerio	hmm	08:13
cehteh	and if the destination doesnt exist then rsync just sends the data	08:14
kerio	jpinx: why don't you use sftp (over ssh) instead of sshfs? that would be far more efficient	08:14
cehteh	well i use sshfs sometimes .. its nice	08:14
jpinx	kerio: and cehteh I like to be able to write to the SD card with cp, nano, rsync, et al -- but "operation not permitted" is what I get now	08:20
kerio	jpinx: what does mount say?	08:20
cehteh	so then you dont have permission or its mounted readonly	08:20
jpinx	mount in the laptop says... user@192.168.2.15:/media/mmc1/ on /home/jpinx/n900-card type fuse.sshfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,max_read=65536,allow_other,user=jpinx)	08:21
jpinx	kerio: you can see it is rw, and user is me	08:21
kerio	can you write stuff to it from the n900 itself?	08:22
jpinx	no	08:22
cehteh	and you are logged in as root or user on the n900?	08:22
kerio	what's the error you get?	08:22
cehteh	sshfs is bad in handling multiple users	08:22
cehteh	(aka root owned files)	08:22
cehteh	next if you have fat in the way and you try some metadata operations fat may not support this can yield that error	08:23
jpinx	the SD >card is all rwrwrw and all files owned by user	08:23
cehteh	how is it mounted on the n900?	08:23
jpinx	sshfs	08:23
cehteh	locally .. fat?	08:24
jpinx	as per user@192.168.2.15:/media/mmc1/ on /home/jpinx/n900-card type fuse.sshfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,max_read=65536,allow_other,user=jpinx)	08:24
cehteh	readwrite?	08:24
cehteh	not the sshfs mount i meant on the n900 locally	08:24
jpinx	/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)	08:25
cehteh	and well .. use rsync over ssh and not sshfs .. that would be a first start to debug this and having success later	08:25
jpinx	cehteh: rsync fails in the same way	08:25
cehteh	yes but you dont have 3 layers to debug	08:25
cehteh	there is only here and there :)	08:25
jpinx	;)	08:26
jpinx	rsync gives me operation not permitted when trying to write	08:26
kerio	use scp or something like that	08:26
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cehteh	rsync somesmallfile user@192.168.2.15:/media/mmc1/	08:26
kerio	can you ssh to the n900?	08:26
cehteh	like this?	08:26
cehteh	next try the opposite fetch some file from the n900, does that work?	08:27
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jpinx	kerio: yes - straightforward ssh works	08:29
kerio	and from that ssh session you can write to /media/mmc1/foo?	08:29
kerio	if so, then there's no reason scp shouldn't work	08:30
jpinx	ok - fixed it	08:32
jpinx	here's what you do	08:32
jpinx	first off - remove the image you are using as a desktop background which is located on the sdcard, reboot, and you're done	08:33
jpinx	anythin that is using the sdcard will block remote access to it	08:33
jpinx	kerio: and cehteh many thanks for the boot up my ass ;)	08:34
cehteh	huh?	08:34
cehteh	sounds strange .. i doing such things many times	08:35
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jpinx	if anyone knows what the mechanism is that blocks the remote access to the sdcard while anything else is using it - I'll be interested to know	08:35
jpinx	I now have drag and drop in the laptop (debian) filemanager into and out of the n900 sdcard	08:36
jpinx	rsync chugs along perfectly	08:36
jpinx	all back to normal and I put the image I like as screen background on the main phone SD card -- there is no conflict from there	08:37
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jpinx	cehteh: kerio I'm back - after a disconnect and unplug and re-plug, the SD card is again not available	11:00
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kerio	jpinx: wait, unplug/replug?	12:08
kerio	of what?	12:08
kerio	are you exporting the µsd through usb mass storage?	12:09
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DocScrutinizer05	haha	12:55
teotwaki	Can I ask a stupid favour off anyone here?	13:00
StyXman	teotwaki: asking is free	13:01
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teotwaki	The school were I got my CS degree is being shut down, however, the teachers have decided to start a petition to keep it going. Would anyone mind signing the petition? Doesn't matter where you are, frankly. Message me if you want the link. Thanks.	13:02
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teotwaki	Gee, thanks for the support :)	13:14
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jpinx	kerio yes - it's a usb cable connection I use ( wwith wvdial to get to the internet)	13:38
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Estel_	Jaffa, ping	14:02
Estel_	GeneralAntilles, ping	14:02
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DocScrutinizer05	teotwaki: >>Message me if you want the link<< prone to fail epically	14:43
DocScrutinizer05	~ask	14:43
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	14:43
teotwaki	DocScrutinizer: I was also trying to not spam the channel with something immensely off-topic, noob	14:45
kerio	OH NO YOU DI'N'T	14:46
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Lava_Croft	yeah you n00b	15:04
* Lava_Croft chuckles like he is watching a game of CoD played by a 6 year old		15:04
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Jaffa	Estel_: pong (although he's gone)	15:36
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, hi. can you write steps how to start usb host mode with charging?	15:46
kerio	Pali!	15:47
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Estel_	Jaffa, GeneralAntilles, ping	15:54
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DocScrutinizer05	Pali: basically: start normal hostmode. After establishing everything plug in external power to Y-cable. Stop vboost(-script). Start charge21.sh	15:58
DocScrutinizer05	~hostmode-charging	15:58
infobot	[hostmode-powered] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203	15:58
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: it's very inportant to NOT have any vbus supply plugged in when starting hostmode. As I explained before, you can select speed of musb-core only when no vbus voltage from any source (external or internal) is locking the USB session	16:00
kerio	charge21 or any other BME substitute, right?	16:03
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: keep in mind that even after disabling boost mode (or unplugging the external power supply) there will stay the voltage on VBUS for quite some time, buffered by capacitors inside N900 as well as in the attached peripheral. You can try to speed discharge by a couble of measures, but finally you should check for current voltage on vbus before continuing with anything like automatic speed switching	16:04
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: right	16:04
kerio	what happens if you turn on BME at that point?	16:04
kerio	shit breaks awfully?	16:04
DocScrutinizer05	except bme itself, which possibly might collide with hostmode eventually /see fastcharger detect)	16:04
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kerio	i see	16:04
kerio	:)	16:04
DocScrutinizer05	fastcharger detect will mess with D+ D- which kills USB data transmission	16:05
kerio	how do inductive chargers work? a special battery? or something that plugs in the phone?	16:05
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, how to correct check for voltage on vbus?	16:06
Estel_	something that "plugs in" into the phone.	16:06
kerio	not just the battery, then? shame	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: there's generic vbus sysfs node, but that's poor. Better check session status in musb-core	16:06
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Estel_	erio, why so? inductive charging circuit on battery could work, but would confuse a shit out of bq27x00 module, and from bme	16:07
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer05: how many n900s do you have?	16:07
DocScrutinizer05	lemme count	16:07
DocScrutinizer05	seems they are 4 now	16:08
chem\|st	;)	16:08
kerio	Estel_: so you can charge while doing whatever you want with the usb port	16:08
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, funny, as just five minutes ago I connected some things to my N900, and was cursing like hell due to it refusing to work - I forget to not apply external voltage before connecting ;) Finally- figured it out myself, then came here, and red Your reply	16:08
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer05: I think of having another one now...	16:09
DocScrutinizer05	meh, you want to compete? i'll have to get another two then ;-P	16:10
kerio	chem\|st: i have two ^_^	16:10
kerio	although one is still MIA	16:10
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chem\|st	mia?	16:11
kerio	can i use backupmenu to restore a backup that was made on a n900 on a different n900? does it work? any problems wrt hardware IDs?	16:11
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kerio	chem\|st: missing in action	16:11
chem\|st	~wtf mia	16:11
infobot	MIA: missing in action	16:11
kerio	infobot: too slow!	16:11
infobot	no, you're too slow!	16:11
kerio	...what the hell	16:12
DocScrutinizer05	actually you may apply external voltage as soon as you've chosen speed. I.E. whenever you press "Vboost" button in H-E-N you also may apply external voltage, NOT earlier	16:12
chem\|st	~feed infobot	16:12
* infobot offers infobot some toe-jam		16:12
kerio	i... i wasn't expecting that	16:12
chem\|st	~botsnack	16:12
infobot	chem\|st: aw, gee	16:12
kerio	chem\|st: anyway, broken USB port and some other minor problems	16:12
chem\|st	the usb is easy to fix, what are the minors?	16:12
kerio	the sim card pins are kinda flaky	16:13
kerio	internal battery is f'ed, but that's standard	16:13
kerio	and then generic software problems that can be fixed by reflashing	16:13
kerio	except that NOPE.jpg	16:13
kerio	the thing is, it was my only phone, so i couldn't exactly get it fixed	16:14
kerio	because i needed my phone	16:14
kerio	now, i'll probably fix it and maybe sell it?	16:14
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chem\|st	simcard pins? what have you done to that?	16:17
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: that's what backup menu offers to user - complete and convenient migration to a new device	16:17
kerio	chem\|st: nothing! i swear!	16:17
kerio	it could also be the sim itself, mind you	16:17
DocScrutinizer05	it?	16:17
chem\|st	kerio: then there is no problem with the pins, it is the gsm-firmware being dodgy	16:17
chem\|st	or your simcard	16:18
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: so there are no weird mismatches wrt imei/wifi mac address/bt... mac? address?	16:18
DocScrutinizer05	all in CAL	16:18
DocScrutinizer05	you can't copy CAL	16:18
kerio	i see	16:18
chem\|st	my simcard looks like driven over several times and is still working	16:18
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chem\|st	got it replaced with a microsim anyhow	16:19
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kerio	chem\|st: hm, with an adapter?	16:27
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kerio	wtf, why is there a wine package	17:05
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kerio	aww, no integrated qemu :(	17:05
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DocScrutinizer05	(sim adapter) NEVER use SIM adapters on slot-in SIM holders	17:14
DocScrutinizer05	we've seen N950 fatalities on that	17:15
StyXman	blood and all?	17:15
DocScrutinizer05	yeah	17:15
StyXman	nice	17:16
DocScrutinizer05	probably, since the user tried to remove locked-up SIM with a blade finally	17:16
* StyXman doesn't want to see his n900's blood		17:16
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Helloer	Hey, how to fix "camera-ui: operation failed"?	17:16
jaska	it has gaseous blood, you will recognize it by the smell.	17:16
StyXman	jaska: I hope I don';t get to see it	17:17
DocScrutinizer05	Helloer: check dmesg	17:17
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DocScrutinizer05	(or - better - syslog)	17:17
StyXman	although we call that "the devil that make electronics work", given all the black magic involved even on a single transistor...	17:18
DocScrutinizer05	jinnie, aka "blue magic smoke"	17:18
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DocScrutinizer05	never let it escape the chips	17:18
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DocScrutinizer05	hmm, genie	17:23
dhbiker	DocScrutinizer05: what is the DSP 's "name" again ? xD	17:25
DocScrutinizer05	dhbiker: hmm?	17:26
dhbiker	umm how its named	17:26
DocScrutinizer05	in which domain? datasheets? sysfs?	17:26
dhbiker	datasheet	17:26
DocScrutinizer05	errr	17:26
DocScrutinizer05	one of the well known TI series iirc	17:26
dhbiker	oh	17:27
dhbiker	ok ill google that out	17:27
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dhbiker	found it... OMAP3430	17:30
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.org/packages/view/omap3430-dsp-libraries-ti/	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	omap3430 is the whole SOC	17:30
DocScrutinizer	http://www.edaboard.com/thread69235.html	17:33
dhbiker	yeah just saw in a datasheet	17:34
dhbiker	C64x	17:34
Helloer	DocScrutinizer05: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=T6DePr9f thats all	17:35
Estel_	goddamn it, how to make external keyboard connected to N900, to wortk inside Easy Debian desktop enviromnent (LXDE)	17:36
Estel_	= inside xephyr	17:36
Estel_	work = correctly work [- now it allow only lowercase lettersm no numbers or special chars	17:36
Estel_	N900 keyboard layout - including custom hardware remap - work by copying rx-51 file from Maemo to same location under easy debian	17:36
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Helloer	Estel_: check pm (irc)^^	17:37
Estel_	hoever, external keyboard connected via freemangordon's extkbd package, works great on Maemo - also for ED programs run from Maemo, but not from xephyr	17:37
dhbiker	bbl	17:38
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kerio	i'm going crazy - how's the mobile traffic counter widget called?	17:53
kerio	ooh, personal dataplan monitor	17:54
kerio	found it	17:54
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chem\|st	kerio: with adapter yes, would never use that on a slot... as the guys replied after you	17:58
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kerio	will build-essential from the maemo sdk repo fit on my n900?	18:26
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DocScrutinizer05	kerio: mobile traffic counter is in settings-phone	18:54
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kerio	DocScrutinizer05: yeah but there was a neat widget that displays that same counter on the home screen	19:00
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Sicelo	DocScrutinizer05: if i provide external poer to my peripheral, is it safe to simply stop bme, and switch N900 usb to host-mode without using booston? or do i always have to booston?	20:07
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Sicelo	*powe	20:08
Sicelo	gawd.	20:08
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: you have to hit vboost button in h-e-n GUI anyway	20:26
DocScrutinizer05	if you do manual hostmode the hacker way, it's safe to apply external vbus power instead of starting booston script, same momnent	20:27
DocScrutinizer05	the 1707 PHY chip detects VBUS voltage, but it doesn't mind where from it origins	20:28
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vi__	DocScrutinizer05: as long as there is >0.65v present at the base, the transistor will be biased irrespective of ib?	21:03
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: ??	21:03
vi__	this statement is correct?	21:04
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DocScrutinizer05	vi__: if that's a generic question, then the answer is "yes"	21:04
vi__	where Ib==the current flowing into the base.	21:04
vi__	also, Ie=Ic+Ib.	21:05
DocScrutinizer05	if U(e-b) is >0.65..0.7V there's no way no current flows into base	21:05
vi__	I thought as much.	21:06
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monoceros	Sorry Guys, Does Maemo.org work for you?	21:15
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DocScrutinizer05	says who?	21:17
DocScrutinizer05	oops	21:17
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ThreeM	monoceros, yes it does	21:34
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monoceros	yes, now it works also for me... thank you	21:46
andre__	monoceros, http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/maemo.org	21:46
Sicelo	thanks for info DocScrutinizer05 :)	21:47
kerio	andre__: or isup.me	21:57
kerio	MohammadAG: your alternate lockscreen. i don't like it	21:58
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monoceros	Ahah thank you andre__ and kerio :)	22:00
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: you're welcome! :-)	22:09
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Pali	I updated usbmode.sh script: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/kernel-power/usbmode.sh	22:18
Pali	Now autodetection of speed working on my tested devices without problem	22:18
Pali	DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^	22:19
Pali	I think script is now complete	22:19
Pali	all maemo testers: test this new script for usb host mode	22:20
Sicelo	will it work on previous KP? or only 51?	22:20
Pali	usage: ./usbmode host (activate host mode) ./hostmode peripheral (deactivate host mode)	22:20
Pali	Sicelo, yes only for kp 51	22:21
Sicelo	ah	22:21
Pali	it use new charger driver for boost	22:21
Pali	Sicelo, booston daemon script was moved to kernel	22:21
Sicelo	i'm not of 51 yet. tell me .. this new script - is it safe to use with external power as well?	22:22
Pali	Sicelo, should be safe	22:24
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Sicelo	thanks	22:29
kerio	Pali: i'm not sure speed autodetect is that good of an idea	22:32
DocScrutinizer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3X5y-ajtc	22:36
DocScrutinizer05	err	22:36
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Lava_Croft	too late for my n900!	22:39
vi__	so, in short how do I use the new charger chip module?	22:43
vi__	do I stop bme, insmod bq+charger module.	22:43
vi__	?	22:43
vi__	or is there more to it than that.	22:43
* vi__ waves to Pali.		22:44
kerio	vi__: use that script, for instance	22:44
kerio	oh, you mean in general	22:44
kerio	i doubt it's ready for "primetime", so to speak	22:44
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Pali	vi__, look at: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/projects/maemo/bq2415x.html	22:49
Pali	vi__, you must stop bme and then load bq2415x_charger.ko module	22:50
Pali	when bq2415x_charger is loaded it auto charge battery when charger is attached	22:51
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Pali	also it autodetect wallcharger and set correct current limit	22:51
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Pali	also chip stop charging when battery is fully charged	22:52
Pali	so charing working without user interaction automatically	22:52
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MohammadAG	kerio: Thanks :D	23:01
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kerio	MohammadAG: the media controls are kinda weird	23:04
kerio	and wtf, the beach in the background	23:04
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MohammadAG	kerio: It was a concept more than anything	23:17
MohammadAG	QtLockscreen bases on my code	23:17
kerio	hm	23:18
kerio	so qtlockscreen is supposed to be better?	23:18
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SpeedEvil	On the stock media player - has anyone seen audio files seeking back to the beginning and stopping after ~2 mins sometimes?	23:31
kerio	SpeedEvil: yep	23:31
kerio	noticed multiple times	23:31
kerio	on pr1.2, but apparently the bug is still there	23:32
kerio	not sure if it's a mafw bug or if it's a mediaplayer bug, i hope it's the latter	23:32
kerio	now i'm using OMP, but i haven't played a lot of music there, so i can't say it works better	23:32
kerio	it used to happen a lot, especially when changing song a lot	23:32
kerio	i said "a lot" a lot, didn't i	23:32
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vi__	pali, that is a work of bueaty.	23:39
vi__	kerio: Not ready for prime time? I was haxing maemo when you were still in diapers.	23:40
kerio	:o you had OS2005 in 1995?	23:41
kerio	damn, you're l33t	23:41
kerio	no, OS2004 right?	23:42
kerio	maemo1	23:42
vi__	maemo 0.001a - alpha proof of concept version.	23:42
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vi__	of course there was no hardware back then, we just drew it on peices of slate with a bark pencil.	23:43
kerio	hmm, so what's missing from the bq modules? the userland part?	23:51
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