IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-07-11

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RaimuMy precious!00:28
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keriohmm, need games for maemo00:29
keriowat play00:29
RaimuTapan Kaikki!00:30
kerioi already installed aisleriot00:30
kerioalso, why the hell do i only have 50mb of free space in rootfs? i had 8000:31
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Raimukerio, it's an estimate. Reboot and it might rethink the space.00:35
cehtehdu -ax | sort -rn | less00:35
RaimuSome apps don't really respect the mighty opt, either.00:36
cehtehoptification is broken by design anyways00:36
kerioRaimu: how the hell do you play this00:37
Raimucehteh: Still no reason to chuck things randomly into rootfs.00:37
Raimukerio: F* if I know, I used to play it on the PC ten years ago. :D00:37
keriowell i just wasted 40mb of my daily ~30000:38
RaimuI just installed some lightweight puzzle games on my n900, it is not a very good game device.00:39
Raimukerio: Oh noez!00:39
kerioalso right, ubifs does compression00:39
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DocScrutinizer05ho ho ho00:47
DocScrutinizer05pali's shellscripting-fu is ... mellow ;-)00:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: oh you00:48
keriowhat's the "correct" way to find out if a process is running, btw?00:48
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DocScrutinizer05well, that's one of the less bizarre things done in this plai's script: sth like if ! pidof $process >/dev/null; then00:49
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* DocScrutinizer05 boggles at contaptions like "if $(cat $envvarfoo|grep -q "pattern" ); then00:51
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kerioit's especially weird because this man page tells me that pidof exits either with 1 or with 200:51
* DocScrutinizer05 boggles at contaptions like "if $(echo $envvarfoo|grep -q "pattern" ); then00:51
DocScrutinizer05kerio: eh?00:52
keriono, nvm00:52
* DocScrutinizer05 rises eyebrow on pidof(8)00:52
kerioweird numbered list that got turned into 1 and 2 instead of 0 and 100:53
DocScrutinizer05wtf is this sbin/root?00:53
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DocScrutinizer05maybe because no normal process got the perms to read other user's cmdlines from /proc?00:53
DocScrutinizer05on some more sane / safe unix setups00:54
jacekowskionly with grsec00:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's the same binary as killall500:57
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: then whi is man pidof 8?00:57
DocScrutinizer51kerio: lol00:57
kerioi have no idea why00:57
kerioprobably hysterical raisins00:57
kerioanyway, killall5 is not suid root here on debian00:57
DocScrutinizer51that would be pretty BAD00:58
DocScrutinizer51trend is to deprecate suid all together00:59
kerioof course00:59
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DocScrutinizer51basically there's little besides su that needs suid01:00
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: that's so you can find pid of a process01:00
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: by it's name01:00
keriojacekowski: it doesn't need to be suid01:01
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: I know what pidof does01:01
jacekowskii know01:01
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jacekowskiit's part of posix standard i believe01:01
jacekowskiand it's always been there01:01
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: I asked why it's in man group 801:01
kerioDocScrutinizer51: wait01:01
keriopidof is busybox here on maemo01:02
DocScrutinizer51everything is messybox on maemo01:02
jacekowskiwell, 8 is for daemons as well01:02
jacekowskiand that's where pidof would be used01:03
jacekowskias in, daemon startup scripts and stuff01:03
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DocScrutinizer51basically 8 is stuff you need to be root to use it01:03
jacekowski       8   System administration commands (usually only for root)01:04
jacekowskireading processes cmdline is not a root only thing01:05
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jacekowskiwhich is why passwords in cmdline are VERY bad thing on linux01:06
DocScrutinizer51seems pidof comes with some more or less nasty options01:06
kerioDocScrutinizer51: but it can be busybox-power!01:06
keriowith more power!01:06
kerioand stuff like swap priority01:06
DocScrutinizer51hear the distant sound.... :01:07
DocScrutinizer51........ pling .......01:07
keriono, i don't hear it01:09
kerioand really, busybox-power is apparently a real thing01:10
DocScrutinizer51each time you hear it, a useful answer vanished from this universe01:10
kerioi haven't really risked installing it, because it'll probably break stuff01:10
keriobut it's a less messy messybox, in -devel01:10
DocScrutinizer51actually even when you don't listen, it still vanishes01:10
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: and not to forget... god kills a kitten01:10
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DocScrutinizer05and takes a token out of kerio's jar01:16
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: actually I noticed you already sufferend from recoil, when I ignored a potentially meaningful question of yours a few hours ago, as you placed yourself into troll-mode-tagged mode on my screen, two posts before01:18
keriohm, which one?01:19
DocScrutinizer05nah, I CBA to scan backscroll to spot it now01:19
kerioit's ok, i'll just stop asking you questions01:19
DocScrutinizer05up to you01:19
DocScrutinizer05a hint: I *guess* it's been over at #harmattan01:20
keriothat would be extremely unlikely01:20
keriobecause i'm not in #harmattan01:21
kerioooh, i think it was something related to charging while in host mode01:21
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I guess it was #maemo-ssu01:22
DocScrutinizer05I mixed things up01:22
* RiD gets mad while trying to make a loopable engine sound01:22
SpeedEvilRiD: just go 'argh' into a mic, and loop it01:23
RiDmore like vrooom01:23
kerioi would play the shit out of a racing game that has sounds made by a dude with his own voice01:23
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* RiD steals idea and wins millions01:24
RiDi crossfade the $BLEEP$ sound on the end with bits of the start01:24
RiDthen i cut the start the perfect place so that it is continuous but.... it never is01:24
* RiD rages01:24
keriojust get a sound from the interwebs01:25
RiDno, they suck01:25
DocScrutinizer05RiD: your best bet are loops of <100ms length01:26
RiDnot very good on muscle car engines01:26
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DocScrutinizer05RiD: btw sox is a nice tool. streching length of the sample to maybe 10 times while keeping pitch might help to find a good segment for loop01:29
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RST38hMeanwhile: The city authorities of San Francisco have banned departmental purchases of Apple hardware after Cupertino dropped out of the Electronic Product Environmental Assessment Tool (EPEAT) green-standards scheme01:34
* RST38h laughs satanically01:34
jacekowskiit's probably cheaper for apple to lose that and well, not worry about environment01:35
SpeedEvilThe certification is largely bollocks.01:35
jacekowskilike any other01:35
SpeedEvilI mean - it has sane aspects.01:36
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: awesome video01:36
SpeedEvilBut in practice, recycleability in terms of removing components nowadays is essentially meaningless.01:36
DocScrutinizer05RiD: (loop sound) I think I recall several audio editors have support functions to find optimal looping points in sound samples01:39
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DocScrutinizer05the better ones have a way to define windows for start end end of loop, and the function will try to find two sequences which sounds alike in those both windows01:41
DocScrutinizer05s/end end/and end/.01:41
DocScrutinizer05then set the point for crossfade exactly in the middle of both sequences, and remix01:42
SpeedEvilThe right way is generally to do it in frequency space, as you can blur the ends easier.01:42
DocScrutinizer05a "crossfade" in frequency domain is amplitude as well as spectrum, while in wave/time domain you can only fade amplitude01:44
DocScrutinizer05think of it as "morph" for sounds instead of pictures01:45
RiDcalm down i'm still new in audio editing O_o01:45
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RiDhave experience on photoshop but audio editing is still new for me01:46
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DocScrutinizer05basically once you learn synaestesia, it's all the same ;-D01:47
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DocScrutinizer05and no, that's only half kidding01:49
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RiDi need perfect pitch ears too :D01:49
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DocScrutinizer05actually once you look at your sound as a frequency plot, it's just a problem of how to bend this "picture" to a cylinder that doesn't have any visible dicontinuities01:50
DocScrutinizer05of course! there are 5 alternative terms, DocScrutinizer05 used none of them01:55
RiDDocScrutinizer05 not easy to spot on engine sounds01:55
DocScrutinizer05spectrogram,  Also known as spectral waterfalls, sonograms, voiceprints, or voicegrams01:55
DocScrutinizer05I used "frequency plot"01:56
RiDyou were close01:56
RiD(notice the little bit of sarcasm used)01:56
DocScrutinizer05i'm nototrious for that01:57
DocScrutinizer05(not sarcasm, though... sarcasm as well :-P )01:57
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DocScrutinizer05spectral density plot would have somewhat been to the point01:58
DocScrutinizer05well, that's why I gave you a decent URL instead01:58
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DocScrutinizer05btw, on a loosely related topic: all audio compression algos (like GSM, MP3) mostly profit from completely discriminating the phase info from original signal, only keeping amplitude and frequency vs time02:04
DocScrutinizer05the rest is mostly quantization, plus a lil bit of compression ala gz02:05
RiDand flac seems to be less cpu intensive than mp3 on n90002:06
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RiDthe story is different when i start the EQ02:07
DocScrutinizer05quite logical, since it has to "create" less data02:07
DocScrutinizer05basically in flac you only have a specialized compression, but no fft02:07
DocScrutinizer05fft is cpu-heavy02:08
ShadowJKAlso overlapped discrete cosine transforms instead of block by block02:08
RiDi dont even know what fft is o_o02:08
DocScrutinizer05fast fourier transformation02:08
DocScrutinizer05or s/fast/finite02:08
DocScrutinizer05nah, I think I mix that with FIR02:09
DocScrutinizer05finite impulse response02:09
DocScrutinizer05which is related to fft somehow, but still something different02:09
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: yep, quite likely. Though I never looked into flac in detail02:11
DocScrutinizer05err, I did, but that's like 5 years in the past02:11
DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall I wondered wtf they do with stereo02:12
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DocScrutinizer05isn't it like they never do L+R, L-R before compression?02:13
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RiDi have no idea :D02:13
DocScrutinizer05btw while phase is mostly meaningless for normal monaural audio, for stereo it is quite important. Particularly for bass02:16
RiDwhich means..? :o02:17
cehtehdoesnt flac doe fft too? .. just calcuclating the error, keeping it below the quantizattion limit?02:17
DocScrutinizer05which means running stereo audio thru a fft equalizer that discriminates phase info might result in poor stereo localization/definition and weak bass since out of phase02:18
DocScrutinizer05cehteh: nope, flac is meant to be lossless02:18
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DocScrutinizer05so it just does compression02:19
RiDmaybe that's why some N900 players (such as SOmeplayer) equalizers seem to have the 30Hz band "flipped", but in fact it's not. (??)02:19
DocScrutinizer05cehteh: [11.07.2012 01:08:09] <ShadowJK> Also overlapped discrete cosine transforms instead of block by block02:19
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RiDOn music that contains a lot of low-freq bass (w/e) boosting up the 30hz band will actually increase the bass, but on most songs it seems to reduce. Therefore, if you reduce it to -24dB you might actually hear more bass. Doesn't happen on rockbo02:21
* DocScrutinizer05 once had a "Denon Audio Technical CD" with "speaker phase. the following signal is a 10 seconds white noise played in phase, then 2 s later out of phase"02:21
* DocScrutinizer05 would like to check what mp3 encoding does to that02:22
RiDwell, the more mp3 compressed a song is the more joined left and right seem to be. In my simple language :>02:23
DocScrutinizer05yep, quite precisely phrased exactly what I'd expect to see, err hear02:23
RiDd'oh. ^ ignore that02:24
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DocScrutinizer05well, also "read" - on any decent audio signal analyzer ;-)02:26
RiDfoobar has a spectrum vizualizer w/e02:26
DocScrutinizer05audacity should have one too, iirc02:27
* DocScrutinizer05 fires a zypper install audacity02:27
DocScrutinizer05\o/ already "i"02:28
DocScrutinizer05"Hallo bei Audacity 1.3.13-beta!" :-((02:29
DocScrutinizer05there's audacity2.0 since quite some time already02:30
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LaoLang_coolhi, how to open a pdf file from cli? osso_pdfview foo.pdf doesn't work...02:50
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DocScrutinizer05probably needs dbus cmd03:04
DocScrutinizer05iirc all mime type project file opening is via dbus msg calling a proxy which starts the executable and passes the pathname/filename to it03:05
RST38h...When a sufficiently large number of subjects are exposed to this effect, further complications arise in terms of mental health and the integrity of spacetime.03:06
DocScrutinizer05try dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request$1 string:"$2"03:08
DocScrutinizer05or check what dbus-monitor shows when you click/open the pdf file in filemanager03:10
* DocScrutinizer05 should listen to own advice for osso-notes03:12
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LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, will try it, but what is $1 and $2?...03:27
DocScrutinizer51but evidently filemanager opens pdf files03:27
DocScrutinizer51use dbus-monitor to get exact call to accomplish that03:28
DocScrutinizer51I bet several other users here could give better advice, direct pointer to howto, or even command03:29
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer51, dbus-monitor's output is hard to understand...03:30
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DocScrutinizer51there's a lot of useless unrealted stuff in there. grep -C10 'your pdffilename'03:35
RiDpedofilename :/03:37
RiD.pdf 's hidden message03:38
RiDalso known to be a diminutive of .pedophile03:38
RiDwhy "f" instead of "ph"? because most of file extensions have 3 chars03:39
RiDthat's it. It's a completely legitimate explanation03:39
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ShadowJKflac has no dct I think04:36
ShadowJKI see you were discussing something else than I thought04:37
DocScrutinizer05>>FLAC uses linear prediction to convert the audio samples to a series of small, uncorrelated numbers (known as the residual), which are stored efficiently using Golomb-Rice coding. It also uses run-length encoding for blocks of identical samples, such as silent passages.<<04:38
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DocScrutinizer05aha, I recalled something wrong: >> Channels can be grouped in cases like stereo and 5.1 channel surround to take advantage of interchannel correlations to increase compression<<04:40
ShadowJKI'd myself make them mono and code the mono channel and the difference separately04:41
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ShadowJKvoice codecs are kinda fascinagting in that they model the human soundproducing apparatus :P04:44
DocScrutinizer05that's why music sounds awful via GSM04:47
DocScrutinizer05but that's also the reason you can transmit pretty clear voice signals via 9600bps04:48
DocScrutinizer05you wouldn't need much more to control the "muscles" of an atrificial throat04:50
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SpeedEvil - a man with an artificial throat. (seemingly)04:56
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DocScrutinizer05beatboxing meets frippertronics05:48
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stardivinerWhat about Python3 on Maemo5 now ?05:49
DocScrutinizer05afaik nobody is using it?05:50
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LaoLang_coolwow, modrana is a must-have app in maemo06:14
LaoLang_coolit should replace the out-dated built-in ovi maps :)06:14
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DocScrutinizer05why is everybody so eager to *replace* anything??06:35
DocScrutinizer05WTF became of "freedom of choice" in FOSS?06:36
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DocScrutinizer05REPLACE camera, REPLACE kernel, REPLACE mediaplayer, REPLACE maps - dang, I get angry hearing that all the time06:40
robbiethe1stWell, if the original can't be /modified/, it should be /replaced/?06:41
DocScrutinizer05instead of feeling happy they got a choice, people think they have to force their own preferences onto others. dafaq!06:41
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: BULLSHIT!06:42
robbiethe1stWhy not?06:42
robbiethe1stIsn't that the whole point to OSS stuff? It may not do what you want, but you can /modify/ it to(and hopefully, someone else has already done it and made it a config option)?06:43
DocScrutinizer05I got 3 maps apps on my N900, and I'll get into a blood frency when somebody comes REPLACING one of them with something HE thinks is better for *me*06:43
robbiethe1stWell, if you mean replacing as in 'removing the alternative', then....06:43
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's what everybody means by REPLACE06:43
robbiethe1stI would expect it to be replaced as in busybox-power; it's an option that replaces the original, but is non-mandatory06:44
robbiethe1st(and conflicts with the original)06:44
robbiethe1stNow, what the 'default' option should be, that can be argued(i.e. whether the stock or modified version of something should be in, say, cssu, but...06:45
DocScrutinizer05cssu wil NOT REPLACE anything, it will offer FREEDOM OF CHOICE whenever possible06:46
robbiethe1stDoesn't it replace stock packages with 'upgraded'/modified ones?06:47
robbiethe1stLike some of the custom-patched versions?06:47
DocScrutinizer05if there's any such thing like a default, user should have a select option to make "default" whatever she likes06:47
DocScrutinizer05indeed somebody managed to push nicocam into cssu, on of the root sins06:48
DocScrutinizer05one of*06:48
robbiethe1stDepends... I don't see what's wrong with alternate packages that conflct with/provide the original package; On this device, there's not enough space for all versions of everything, so...06:49
DocScrutinizer05esp since for camera it's *utterly* simple to offer a default-selector06:49
robbiethe1stTrue; that's something I've had for many months...06:49
robbiethe1stI have two camera packages + flashlight + mbarcode06:49
DocScrutinizer05since friggin nicocam my DSP locks up when taking photos - comment of cssu-responsibles: "well, get a proper kernel-power, it's a bug that's fixed in there" FINE¡¡¡06:51
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DocScrutinizer05what exactly is the benefit of nicocam in cssu for me now?06:52
robbiethe1stI'd argue that if the kernel-power is included/marked as a dependancy of nicocam, then that's fine. Otherwise...06:52
* ShadowJK guesses nicocam isn't feature complete with the default cam? :P06:53
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* DocScrutinizer05 figures arch linux / younameit distro upgrade REPLACING firefox by opera06:57
DocScrutinizer05even replacing msie by firefox would kill the system06:58
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DocScrutinizer05that's why you always got a selector which progarm shall be default on your system06:59
DocScrutinizer05and nobody ever dares to *replace* stuff, unless inevitable07:00
DocScrutinizer05just fools rushing over cssu think cssu is meant to *replace* everything07:01
DocScrutinizer05(I don't mean my friends the maintainers)07:02
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DocScrutinizer05this whole thinking is probably a result of Nokia's idea to ship a 'monolithic' OS revision including 'everything'. So people don't think "fine, I got modrana now. Could I recover the space (on screen, in storage) taken up by ovimaps? Could I change which app addressbook will open when clicking on an address?" - they stay in Nokia's walled garden and think "duh, how could I *replace* this friggin ovimaps?"07:16
cehtehi hate it when i accidentally start ovi maps .. its so slow to kill it :P07:17
DocScrutinizer05well, who doesn't?07:20
cehtehsomeone at nokia either liked it OR wanted to punish their customers07:22
cehtehthat didnt worked out .. so they moved to windows phone :P07:22
robbiethe1stOh, that reminds me... speaking of low-level mods, remember many months ago I wondered about 'pausing' browser/browserd when the screen is off?07:23
robbiethe1stTurns out, it works great; 99.9% of the time, windows07:23
robbiethe1st'resume' just fine(transparently), and I have none of the swap-lag I used to get as the app got swapped out of ram while waiting. Battery usage is /far/ better - browser windows can be left open without impacting battery life now.07:24
robbiethe1stI've had a /couple/ of crashes of browser/browserd, but, well, that happens normally, and considering I use it every day(with multiple pause/resume cycles a day)...07:25
robbiethe1st(and, I might add, I have far more crashes on my desktop with firefox than I do with the stock browser, so...)07:26
robbiethe1stAanyway, I think that's enough of that. I do suggest everyone who's interested, try it out.07:28
cehtehhow did you do that? dbus scripts?07:30
cehtehkill -STOP it or what?07:31
robbiethe1stDbus script that calls kill -STOP on "lock" event07:31
robbiethe1stand then resume on the unlock event07:32
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cehtehthat was my guess ,, fine :) .. i shall do that07:32
robbiethe1stI forget where the dbus event script thingie is located, but...07:33
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jpinxhow do I get to rsync from my laptop to the SDcard of my n900 when I have it mounted sshfs over usb. I keep getting operation not permitted.07:47
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cehtehjpinx: why dont you use rsync over ssh instead sshfs .. that would be far more efficient08:11
keriocehteh: [citation needed]08:12
keriounless he's *updating* files, the transfer protocol is the same08:13
cehtehcehteh saied that :P08:13
keriohell, rsync does a bunch more checks08:13
cehtehkerio: sshfs has much more network turnarounds for metadata08:13
cehtehand if the destination doesnt exist then rsync just sends the data08:14
keriojpinx: why don't you use sftp (over ssh) instead of sshfs? that would be far more efficient08:14
cehtehwell i use sshfs sometimes .. its nice08:14
jpinxkerio: and cehteh I like to be able to write to the SD card with cp, nano, rsync, et al --  but "operation not permitted" is what I get now08:20
keriojpinx: what does mount say?08:20
cehtehso then you dont have permission or its mounted readonly08:20
jpinxmount in the laptop says... user@ on /home/jpinx/n900-card type fuse.sshfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,max_read=65536,allow_other,user=jpinx)08:21
jpinxkerio: you can see it is rw, and user is me08:21
keriocan you write stuff to it from the n900 itself?08:22
cehtehand you are logged in as root or user on the n900?08:22
keriowhat's the error you get?08:22
cehtehsshfs is bad in handling multiple users08:22
cehteh(aka root owned files)08:22
cehtehnext if you have fat in the way and you try some metadata operations fat may not support this can yield that error08:23
jpinxthe SD >card is all rwrwrw and all files owned by user08:23
cehtehhow is it mounted on the n900?08:23
cehtehlocally .. fat?08:24
jpinxas per user@ on /home/jpinx/n900-card type fuse.sshfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,max_read=65536,allow_other,user=jpinx)08:24
cehtehnot the sshfs mount i meant on the n900 locally08:24
jpinx/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)08:25
cehtehand well .. use rsync over ssh and not sshfs .. that would be a first start to debug this and having success later08:25
jpinxcehteh: rsync fails in the same way08:25
cehtehyes but you dont have 3 layers to debug08:25
cehtehthere is only here and there :)08:25
jpinxrsync gives me operation not permitted when trying to write08:26
keriouse scp or something like that08:26
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cehtehrsync somesmallfile  user@
keriocan you *ssh* to the n900?08:26
cehtehlike this?08:26
cehtehnext try the opposite fetch some file from the n900, does that work?08:27
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jpinxkerio: yes - straightforward ssh works08:29
kerioand from that ssh session you can write to /media/mmc1/foo?08:29
kerioif so, then there's no reason scp shouldn't work08:30
jpinxok - fixed it08:32
jpinxhere's what you do08:32
jpinxfirst off - remove the image you are using as a desktop background which is located on the sdcard, reboot, and you're done08:33
jpinx*anythin* that is using the sdcard will block remote access to it08:33
jpinxkerio: and cehteh many thanks for the boot up my ass ;)08:34
cehtehsounds strange .. i doing such things many times08:35
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jpinxif anyone knows what the mechanism is that blocks the remote access to the sdcard while anything else is  using it - I'll be interested to know08:35
jpinxI now have drag and drop in the laptop (debian) filemanager into and out of the n900 sdcard08:36
jpinxrsync chugs along perfectly08:36
jpinxall back to normal and I put the image I like as screen background on the main phone SD card --  there is no conflict from  there08:37
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jpinxcehteh: kerio I'm back - after a disconnect and unplug and re-plug, the SD card is again not available11:00
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keriojpinx: wait, unplug/replug?12:08
kerioof what?12:08
kerioare you exporting the µsd through usb mass storage?12:09
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teotwakiCan I ask a stupid favour off anyone here?13:00
StyXmanteotwaki: asking is free13:01
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teotwakiThe school were I got my CS degree is being shut down, however, the teachers have decided to start a petition to keep it going. Would anyone mind signing the petition? Doesn't matter where you are, frankly. Message me if you want the link. Thanks.13:02
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teotwakiGee, thanks for the support :)13:14
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jpinxkerio yes - it's a usb cable connection I use ( wwith wvdial to get to the internet)13:38
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Estel_Jaffa,  ping14:02
Estel_GeneralAntilles,  ping14:02
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DocScrutinizer05teotwaki: >>Message me if you want the link<< prone to fail epically14:43
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.14:43
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: I was also trying to not spam the channel with something immensely off-topic, noob14:45
kerioOH NO YOU DI'N'T14:46
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Lava_Croftyeah you n00b15:04
* Lava_Croft chuckles like he is watching a game of CoD played by a 6 year old15:04
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JaffaEstel_: pong (although he's gone)15:36
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PaliDocScrutinizer, hi. can you write steps how to start usb host mode with charging?15:46
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Estel_Jaffa,  GeneralAntilles, ping15:54
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: basically: start normal hostmode. After establishing everything plug in external power to Y-cable. Stop vboost(-script). Start charge21.sh15:58
DocScrutinizer05Pali: it's very inportant to NOT have any vbus supply plugged in when starting hostmode. As I explained before, you can select speed of musb-core only when no vbus voltage from any source (external or internal) is locking the USB session16:00
keriocharge21 or any other BME substitute, right?16:03
DocScrutinizer05Pali: keep in mind that even after disabling boost mode (or unplugging the external power supply) there will stay the voltage on VBUS for quite some time, buffered by capacitors inside N900 as well as in the attached peripheral. You can try to speed discharge by a couble of measures, but finally you should check for current voltage on vbus before continuing with anything like automatic speed switching16:04
DocScrutinizer05kerio: right16:04
keriowhat happens if you turn on BME at that point?16:04
kerioshit breaks awfully?16:04
DocScrutinizer05except bme itself, which possibly might collide with hostmode eventually /see fastcharger detect)16:04
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kerioi see16:04
DocScrutinizer05fastcharger detect will mess with D+ D- which kills USB data transmission16:05
keriohow do inductive chargers work? a special battery? or something that plugs in the phone?16:05
PaliDocScrutinizer05, how to correct check for voltage on vbus?16:06
Estel_something that "plugs in" into the phone.16:06
kerionot just the battery, then? shame16:06
DocScrutinizer05Pali: there's generic vbus sysfs node, but that's poor. Better check session status in musb-core16:06
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Estel_erio, why so? inductive charging circuit on battery could work, but would confuse a shit out of bq27x00 module, and from bme16:07
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: how many n900s do you have?16:07
DocScrutinizer05lemme count16:07
DocScrutinizer05seems they are 4 now16:08
kerioEstel_: so you can charge while doing whatever you want with the usb port16:08
Estel_DocScrutinizer,  funny, as just five minutes ago I connected some things to my N900, and was cursing like hell due to it refusing to work - I forget to *not* apply external voltage before connecting ;) Finally- figured it out myself, then came here, and red Your reply16:08
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I think of having another one now...16:09
DocScrutinizer05meh, you want to compete? i'll have to get another two then ;-P16:10
keriochem|st: i have two ^_^16:10
kerioalthough one is still MIA16:10
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keriocan i use backupmenu to restore a backup that was made on a n900 on a different n900? does it work? any problems wrt hardware IDs?16:11
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keriochem|st: missing in action16:11
chem|st~wtf mia16:11
infobotMIA: missing in action16:11
kerioinfobot: too slow!16:11
infobotno, you're too slow!16:11
kerio...what the hell16:12
DocScrutinizer05actually you may apply external voltage as soon as you've chosen speed. I.E. whenever you press "Vboost" button in H-E-N you also may apply external voltage, NOT earlier16:12
chem|st~feed infobot16:12
* infobot offers infobot some toe-jam16:12
kerioi... i wasn't expecting that16:12
infobotchem|st: aw, gee16:12
keriochem|st: anyway, broken USB port and some other minor problems16:12
chem|stthe usb is easy to fix, what are the minors?16:12
keriothe sim card pins are kinda flaky16:13
keriointernal battery is f'ed, but that's standard16:13
kerioand then generic software problems that can be fixed by reflashing16:13
kerioexcept that NOPE.jpg16:13
keriothe thing is, it was my only phone, so i couldn't exactly get it fixed16:14
keriobecause i needed my phone16:14
kerionow, i'll probably fix it and maybe sell it?16:14
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chem|stsimcard pins? what have you done to that?16:17
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: that's what backup menu offers to user - complete and convenient migration to a new device16:17
keriochem|st: nothing! i swear!16:17
kerioit could also be the sim itself, mind you16:17
chem|stkerio: then there is no problem with the pins, it is the gsm-firmware being dodgy16:17
chem|stor your simcard16:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: so there are no weird mismatches wrt imei/wifi mac address/bt... mac? address?16:18
DocScrutinizer05all in CAL16:18
DocScrutinizer05you can't copy CAL16:18
kerioi see16:18
chem|stmy simcard looks like driven over several times and is still working16:18
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chem|stgot it replaced with a microsim anyhow16:19
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keriochem|st: hm, with an adapter?16:27
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keriowtf, why is there a wine package17:05
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kerioaww, no integrated qemu :(17:05
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DocScrutinizer05(sim adapter) NEVER use SIM adapters on slot-in SIM holders17:14
DocScrutinizer05we've seen N950 fatalities on that17:15
StyXmanblood and all?17:15
DocScrutinizer05probably, since the user tried to remove locked-up SIM with a blade finally17:16
* StyXman doesn't want to see his n900's blood17:16
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HelloerHey, how to fix "camera-ui: operation failed"?17:16
jaskait has gaseous blood,  you will recognize it by the smell.17:16
StyXmanjaska: I hope I don';t get to see it17:17
DocScrutinizer05Helloer: check dmesg17:17
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DocScrutinizer05(or - better - syslog)17:17
StyXmanalthough we call that "the devil that make electronics work", given all the black magic involved even on a single transistor...17:18
DocScrutinizer05jinnie, aka "blue magic smoke"17:18
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DocScrutinizer05never let it escape the chips17:18
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, genie17:23
dhbikerDocScrutinizer05: what is the DSP 's "name" again ? xD17:25
DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: hmm?17:26
dhbikerumm how its named17:26
DocScrutinizer05in which domain? datasheets? sysfs?17:26
DocScrutinizer05one of the well known TI series iirc17:26
dhbikerok ill google that out17:27
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dhbikerfound it... OMAP343017:30
DocScrutinizer05omap3430 is the whole SOC17:30
dhbikeryeah just saw in a datasheet17:34
HelloerDocScrutinizer05: thats all17:35
Estel_goddamn it, how to make external keyboard connected to N900, to wortk inside Easy Debian desktop enviromnent (LXDE)17:36
Estel_= inside xephyr17:36
Estel_work = correctly work [- now it allow only lowercase lettersm no numbers or special chars17:36
Estel_N900 keyboard layout - including custom hardware remap - work by copying rx-51 file from Maemo to same location under easy debian17:36
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HelloerEstel_: check pm (irc)^^17:37
Estel_hoever, external keyboard connected via freemangordon's extkbd package, works great on Maemo - also for ED programs run from Maemo, but not from xephyr17:37
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kerioi'm going crazy - how's the mobile traffic counter widget called?17:53
kerioooh, personal dataplan monitor17:54
keriofound it17:54
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chem|stkerio: with adapter yes, would never use that on a slot... as the guys replied after you17:58
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keriowill build-essential from the maemo sdk repo fit on my n900?18:26
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: mobile traffic counter is in settings-phone18:54
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but there was a neat widget that displays that same counter on the home screen19:00
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SiceloDocScrutinizer05: if i provide external poer to my peripheral, is it safe to simply stop bme, and switch N900 usb to host-mode without using booston? or do i always have to booston?20:07
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: you have to hit vboost button in h-e-n GUI anyway20:26
DocScrutinizer05if you do manual hostmode the hacker way, it's safe to apply external vbus power instead of starting booston script, same momnent20:27
DocScrutinizer05the 1707 PHY chip detects VBUS voltage, but it doesn't mind where from it origins20:28
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: as long as there is >0.65v present at the base, the transistor will be biased irrespective of ib?21:03
DocScrutinizer05vi__: ??21:03
vi__this statement is correct?21:04
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: if that's a generic question, then the answer is "yes"21:04
vi__where Ib==the current flowing into the base.21:04
vi__also, Ie=Ic+Ib.21:05
DocScrutinizer05if U(e-b) is >0.65..0.7V there's no way no current flows into base21:05
vi__I thought as much.21:06
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monocerosSorry Guys, Does work for you?21:15
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DocScrutinizer05says who?21:17
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ThreeMmonoceros, yes it does21:34
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monocerosyes, now it works also for me... thank you21:46
Sicelothanks for info DocScrutinizer05 :)21:47
kerioandre__: or isup.me21:57
kerioMohammadAG: your alternate lockscreen. i don't like it21:58
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monocerosAhah thank you andre__ and kerio :)22:00
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: you're welcome! :-)22:09
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PaliI updated script:
PaliNow autodetection of speed working on my tested devices without problem22:18
PaliDocScrutinizer05, see ^^^22:19
PaliI think script is now complete22:19
Paliall maemo testers: test this new script for usb host mode22:20
Sicelowill it work on previous KP? or only 51?22:20
Paliusage: ./usbmode host (activate host mode) ./hostmode peripheral (deactivate host mode)22:20
PaliSicelo, yes only for kp 5122:21
Paliit use new charger driver for boost22:21
PaliSicelo, booston daemon script was moved to kernel22:21
Siceloi'm not of 51 yet. tell me .. this new script - is it safe to use with external power as well?22:22
PaliSicelo, should be safe22:24
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kerioPali: i'm not sure speed autodetect is that good of an idea22:32
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Lava_Crofttoo late for my n900!22:39
vi__so, in short how do I use the new charger chip module?22:43
vi__do I stop bme, insmod bq+charger module.22:43
vi__or is there more to it than that.22:43
* vi__ waves to Pali.22:44
keriovi__: use that script, for instance22:44
keriooh, you mean in general22:44
kerioi doubt it's ready for "primetime", so to speak22:44
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Palivi__, look at:
Palivi__, you must stop bme and then load bq2415x_charger.ko module22:50
Paliwhen bq2415x_charger is loaded it auto charge battery when charger is attached22:51
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Palialso it autodetect wallcharger and set correct current limit22:51
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Palialso chip stop charging when battery is fully charged22:52
Paliso charing working without user interaction automatically22:52
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MohammadAGkerio: Thanks :D23:01
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kerioMohammadAG: the media controls are kinda weird23:04
kerioand wtf, the beach in the background23:04
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MohammadAGkerio: It was a concept more than anything23:17
MohammadAGQtLockscreen bases on my code23:17
kerioso qtlockscreen is supposed to be better?23:18
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SpeedEvilOn the stock media player - has anyone seen audio files seeking back to the beginning and stopping after ~2 mins sometimes?23:31
kerioSpeedEvil: yep23:31
kerionoticed multiple times23:31
kerioon pr1.2, but apparently the bug is still there23:32
kerionot sure if it's a mafw bug or if it's a mediaplayer bug, i hope it's the latter23:32
kerionow i'm using OMP, but i haven't played a lot of music there, so i can't say it works better23:32
kerioit used to happen a lot, especially when changing song a lot23:32
kerioi said "a lot" a lot, didn't i23:32
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vi__pali, that is a work of bueaty.23:39
vi__kerio: Not ready for prime time? I was haxing maemo when you were still in diapers.23:40
kerio:o you had OS2005 in 1995?23:41
keriodamn, you're l33t23:41
keriono, OS2004 right?23:42
vi__maemo 0.001a - alpha proof of concept version.23:42
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vi__of course there was no hardware back then, we just drew it on peices of slate with a bark pencil.23:43
keriohmm, so what's missing from the bq modules? the userland part?23:51
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