IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-06-20

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freemangordonRaimu: because mp depends on the exact kernel version00:04
freemangordonnot on ( >= )00:04
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freemangordonRaimu: well, take it easy, if there are still no crashes in the next 12 hours (i.e. till tomorrow evening) I will made a new update, everything is in place but mp- thingie00:05
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freemangordonRaimu: I don't want to distribute something I am not convinced it is stable. And it is really hard to hit that bug, seems noone but me (because of X) has trigger it.00:08
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RaimuYep, I understand.. I only did wonder why put it in early.00:11
freemangordonRaimu: because it takes some time to upload about 100 MBs to the repo, I prefer to have everything uplodaed in advance as I cannot plan my free time ;)00:13
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esaym153gdb is not in any repos for the n810?00:19
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Raimufreemangordon, touché :)00:24
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vi__stop everything.00:57
vi__we have a winner.00:57
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vi__"Thumb2, better than speedpatch."00:58
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* Woody14619 awards vi__ a trophy for his great find.00:59
Woody14619I almost want to print that out and hang it on my cube wall...01:00
vi__Woody14619: so is toast?01:03
vi__Woody14619: I have space on a webserver if that can help?01:04
Woody14619I don't think so... We have some internal fighters still.  Nothing can be said officially, but I suspect we'll get the 6 months promissed at least, if not 12 or so.01:05
vi__could probably run the forums from it and hold the wiki.01:05
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Woody14619And Reggie has offered a complete dump of the forum, as that's all his systems/servers/content....01:05
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vi__Woody14619: at the very least I WILL be hosting the firmware images and flasher program.01:06
Woody14619What I worry about really is the garages and repos.  But I susspect that there are at least one or two mirrors out there already, and those will have lots of time to get stuff from before they close, if they're hit.01:06
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vi__I could probably hold a mirror as well.01:07
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vi__although I have NFC how to set that up.01:08
Woody14619And, there's a rush on to get OBS up, running, and maybe now even packaged so individuals can get it (and the blobs needed from Nokia) to run their own setup.01:08
Woody14619So, No... I don't think the end is neigh.  But even if it is, we're pretty close to being able to limp along on our own as a community if it happens.01:09
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vi__somehoe I do not see TMO becomming a subforum in another forum.01:10
Woody14619The problems with mirrors are: Some of the blobs are not something you can redist (or even fetch for that matter), as their proprietary Nokia.  And even if you did, the bandwidth would kill just getting it, yet alone offering it to others.01:10
RaimuChuckling at "Better than Speedpatch"01:10
RaimuSeeing that'd kill me.01:11
vi__freemangordon can stop now.01:11
Woody14619Like OVI store... If Nokia goes away, those apps do too.  (Save the few that crafty folks may have figured out how to re-package)01:11
vi__he has reached his zenith.01:11
DocScrutinizer06fsck thumb01:12
vi__Woody14619: fortunaltley there was nothing but shit in the ovi store.01:12
Woody14619But vi__ it thumb-2 will never compete with the next version of speedpatch.  (Due out tomorrow, right? ;)01:12
DocScrutinizer0697% risk for 15% savings01:12
* Woody14619 nods, a little... There is Angry Birds in OVI store, after all...01:12
* Woody14619 needs his Angrey Birds fix...01:13
Woody14619I've seen worse compromises Doc. ;)01:14
vi__DocScrutinizer06: risk of what?01:14
vi__Woody14619: 14619 is your zipcode?01:14
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Woody14619And I think the 97% risk is a tad high... Since so far the patch has worked 100%.01:14
* Woody14619 nods to vi__01:14
Woody14619You know now where I (and ~35K other people) live.01:15
vi__the odds in favour of your anonimity just got a whole shitload slimmer.01:16
Woody14619.oO(If you had the +4, you could come pee on my lawn...)01:16
Woody14619Well, considering my city/state is in my profile, and there are only 5 zips in the city... not by much. :)01:17
vi__your foolishness with personal privacy has allowed me to rule out the entire southern hemisphere.01:18
vi__you cannot hide forever woody.01:18
DocScrutinizer06vi__: risk of 69% users fsckd01:18
Woody14619Pleh... You'd have better luck tracking my IP back through IRC... that makes me one of 300 people working for the company.01:19
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Woody14619How so, DocScrutinizer06?01:19
MrPinguWhat's wrong with thumb2? I have been using it without any problems, so far01:19
MrPinguNote: I started fresh01:19
DocScrutinizer06the patches are not verified to work against "normal apps"01:20
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MrPinguDefine "normal apps"01:20
Woody14619That's being done now, AFAIK... And really, lots of folks have been using "normal apps" for some time now.01:20
Woody14619I'd hardly use BlessN900 as an example of "normal"01:20
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Woody14619Considering it broke itself each time Nokiia released a new PR...01:21
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: though it is01:21
DocScrutinizer06we all live in a bubble01:21
MrPinguIs it tested on a fresh device?01:21
DocScrutinizer06there are probably 2 mio sold N90001:22
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Woody14619Besides, it' not like this is going into Extras... It's going into a sub-repository behind another sub-repository.01:22
DocScrutinizer06users in this chan: 27801:22
Woody14619You have to enable CSSU, then enable CSSU-testing.01:22
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: and I'm all fine with that01:22
Woody1461990% of the world hasn't even turned on Extras, as it's off by default.01:22
JaffaWoody14619: No, it's on by default in Fremantle01:23
DocScrutinizer06incorrect, since PR1.201:23
Woody14619Maybe 1% have CSSU installed.01:23
vi__Woody14619: and how many fucking spacker mongs have installed T2 because they think it is just the next upgrade release...01:23
vi__there be a shit storm a brewin'01:23
Woody14619Only as many as complain on TMO... so.. 4. :)01:23
MrPinguPick me01:23
Woody14619Again, this assumes it breaks things.01:23
Woody14619Which so far it has not.01:24
MrPinguNo, I exactly knew it's testing01:24
DocScrutinizer06vi__: no way01:24
Woody14619And it's being tested by plenty of folks right now...01:24
DocScrutinizer06plenty by which metrics?01:25
MrPinguReally I haven't had any problem so far :)01:25
DocScrutinizer06WFM is no argument when it comes to Millions of deployed systems01:26
Woody14619So, yes, will someone enable CSSU, CSSU-Testing, and then go grab zeebra-pron-0m5-thumb2 just because they can?  Sure.  But they'll already have speedpatch installed, so it's not like they'll notice if something else breaks.01:26
DocScrutinizer06thimb is fine for those who want to gamble with it. It's no way ever an alternative for CSSU01:26
Woody14619Doc, as I recall you used this same argument against CSSU and KP 6 months ago, no?01:27
DocScrutinizer06I never used any argument against CSSU01:27
Woody14619hmmm.. maybe it was chemist. :P01:27
DocScrutinizer06KP however is breaking module compatibility and thus never qualifies for an recommended upgrade01:28
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: how did libqtm11/12 ever build? contanis -march=armv7a instead of armv7-a, fixing that and there's a build failure at: qgraphicsvideoitem_maemo5.cpp01:28
Woody14619There we go...01:28
DocScrutinizer06BlessN900 (and nnn other commercial apps) need kernel module compatibility01:28
DocScrutinizer06we're not doing CSSU for the 278 in here01:29
Woody14619Then if you want BlessN900, don't install KP.  Simple.01:29
DocScrutinizer06you're however allowed and encouraged to install CSSU01:30
Woody14619No, not any more than you are KP.01:30
DocScrutinizer06and that's why CSSU will never include a new kernel01:30
vi__DocScrutinizer06: no one else who is left still using N900 care about cssu etc.01:30
Woody14619I know far more people that overclock via KP than use CSSU... Just saying.01:30
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DocScrutinizer06doesn't matter01:30
vi__^that is not already on TMO etc.01:30
infobot[tmo], or, or It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.01:31
DocScrutinizer06CSSU is official SSU01:31
DocScrutinizer06by community01:31
DocScrutinizer06for *everybody*01:31
infobotwell, t-mo is T-Mobile01:31
Woody14619I'm still trying to see your point here Doc.   Thumb, AFAIK, is going to be in a separate sub-repo, requiring KP >=5001:31
vi__DocScrutinizer06: but your *everybody* includes joe shitmuncher who doesnt care about kp.  He does not exist anymore.01:32
DocScrutinizer06no problem with me01:32
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DocScrutinizer06we're discussing null issues01:32
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Woody14619So in that reguard, it's not going to be *in* CSSU, nor require it as far as I can see.01:33
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer06: how's your c++?01:34
Woody14619Eventually, someone will make zeebra-pron-0m5-thumb2 and make it only for thumb though... which will pull in the scruffy nerf hearders, like it always does.  But again, they have to jump through two flaming hoops to get there... so... If they burn, it's on em.01:34
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: ack01:34
Woody14619.oO(That's what backupmenu is for, right?)01:35
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DocScrutinizer06not exactly01:35
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DocScrutinizer06BM can roll back, but nor create alternative branches01:35
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zeq_laptopattempting to rebuild libqtm11 due to missing pkgconfigs, hits this after fixing above mentioned -march=armv7a error:
Woody14619True, but that roll-back is essentially a re-flash, minus firmware and kernel (for now), so...01:36
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: the basic axiom is: pick up as many users as possible where they are. With all their needs and restrictions they face01:36
Woody14619For CSSU, yes...01:37
DocScrutinizer06yes, only for CSSU01:37
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zeq_laptopcode is viewable here:
DocScrutinizer06for PK we go bleeding edge01:37
DocScrutinizer06for thumb01:37
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MrPinguThat's why we have cssu-stable01:38
Woody14619For KP and thumb, it's more about giving functionality to an older device for the ones that are going to stay on it when the new shiny comes out and the rest of the nerfs throw away their old device for a new one.01:38
DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: stable and testing01:38
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: yes01:38
MrPinguIMO: testing can be bleeding edge too01:39
zeq_laptopI can't make out what's wrong with the code given the error. (if *anybody* can help)01:39
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Woody14619And frankly, with the age of the N900, lots of nerfs have left.  The community is quickly approaching non-nerf status.01:39
DocScrutinizer06we of course should break new ground. But not on CSSU01:39
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DocScrutinizer06CSSU is the genuine continuation of Nokia SSU01:40
Woody14619Why not?  And again, this is not something, last I knew, that was being rolled into CSSU.01:40
MrPingubut I agree thumb2 supported kernel should be in PK, cssu-kernel doesn't belong in ssu01:40
Woody14619It's reliant on KP50, not CSSU.01:40
MrPinguJust for the very reason you mentioned earlier01:40
MrPinguWith PK v50 in extras01:41
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Woody14619zeq_laptop, and whats the error you're getting again?01:41
zeq_laptopI'm with DocScrutinizer06, and I'm working on thumb related things.  There's no problem having both streams.01:41
MrPinguCan extras-devel be used for a v51 with thumb ;)01:42
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Woody14619I agrees.. that's why I'm trying to figure out why Doc is so down on thumb?01:42
DocScrutinizer06I'm just disappointed nobody verifies THUMB01:42
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MrPinguIdk, however "it's working fine for me said by Mrpingu (normal user #999)" insnt a scientific proof01:43
zeq_laptopif you mean for stablility, we're doing that through active testing.01:43
Woody14619Again, I think it's being verified....01:43
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merlin1991freemangordon: you killed the thumb repo :01:44
DocScrutinizer06verifies as in "deliver *proof* is's a fix"01:44
MrPinguOTOH, if there are many working fines we can render it tested...01:44
DocScrutinizer06WFM is no proof01:44
Woody14619There are "normal" apps in the OVI store that break constantly that obviously got less "verification" than thumb is already.01:44
merlin1991reprepro by default removes older verions01:44
merlin1991and your kernel update you uploaded removed the old one xD01:44
DocScrutinizer06too many savvy people dispised thumb01:44
DocScrutinizer06you're not rehabilaizing it with "WFM"01:45
Woody14619Doc: many savy people also dispised overclocking.... Yet it's a pretty common practice there days...01:45
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer06: that's why thumb2 was developed01:45
zeq_laptoporiginal thumb was god awful01:45
DocScrutinizer06and we seen pretty a number of fuckedup devices01:46
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MrPinguOf OC?01:46
DocScrutinizer06with NONe OF THEM been caused by OC01:46
MrPinguI guess it's more because user fault, not knowing what they are doing01:47
MrPinguWhile OC can be stable if done right ;)01:47
DocScrutinizer0695% of users silently binned the N900 when it went apeshit due to OC01:47
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer06: evidence?01:47
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DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: nope, OC is like running your car engine with two times the RPM it's designed for01:48
MrPinguNow SR is fixed  it's even easier for end-users to use good OC-settings01:48
DocScrutinizer06it will wear out01:48
Woody14619Doc, I've had my device overclocked since before Titan put out kernels... No damage yet.01:48
MrPinguI run however for 2 weeks without OC and it's doing fine actually :P01:48
zeq_laptopunderclocking and mild overclocking doesn't wear it out any quicker01:48
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: I run my car around teh block at 22800RPM once a week since 5 yreas01:48
zeq_laptopI meant *unvolting*01:49
Woody14619And yes, it's like over reving your engine.  But then I see little Honda Fit's every day with a custom huge engine and jacked up tires...01:49
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DocScrutinizer06zeq_laptop: aha, and you know that because you designed the OMAP chip?01:49
zeq_laptopit's the current and heat that kills01:49
zeq_laptopI know that from the principle of electron migration01:50
DocScrutinizer06aha, you again know that because you invented integrated circuits?01:50
Woody14619Doc: The point being, if YOU don't want that, then by all means, don't YOU install it.  But to poo-poo people doing work to make life better for those that want to take that (far less than 1%) risk... seems a tad silly.01:50
MrPinguAnyway I think OC is not that bad as you propose it is...01:51
zeq_laptopIt is bad if you just ramp up the clockspeed/voltage01:51
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: I'm not doing any of that01:51
DocScrutinizer06I'm just not taking shit from amateurs01:51
Woody14619Especially when it's not being tied to or injected into anything "stable" or main-stream.01:51
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MrPinguI won't discuss it anyfurther as I can't come up with good arguments ;)01:51
MrPinguMy knowledge is just too low :P01:52
DocScrutinizer06that's the point01:52
MrPinguThat's why I said: I Think..01:53
DocScrutinizer06I'm building chips for bagles now01:53
Woody14619Doc: Galileo was considered and amateur astrologer in his day.  People poo-pooed his theories all the time... but turns out he was right in the end on most of it.01:53
DocScrutinizer06I see the results of test our engineers at chipfab do01:53
Woody14619Being and ameture != always wrong.01:53
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer06: and what do they tell you?01:54
MrPinguWoody14619 you give a bit of confidence haha :P01:54
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DocScrutinizer06they tell me it's 49-dimesional problem01:54
Woody14619Sounds reasonable to me. :)01:54
DocScrutinizer06and things like UV and temperaturee are just 2 of those dimensions01:54
DocScrutinizer06you goddomn dunno what's gonna happen when you OC, but odds are it WILL hirt your chip01:55
Woody14619And yet, they can make a chip that runs at 500Mhz with a reasonable MTBF...  And you believe them when they say that, but not when someone say, if we up this a little, we can get it to run at 600 without much life loss.01:56
zeq_laptopyep, current, cosmic rays, quantum events ...01:56
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: EM is a e^x function01:56
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Woody14619I don't think anyone argues that OC doesn't have potential to lower the life of the chip..01:56
MrPinguHow many of these fscked device were caused ONLY by OC?01:57
zeq_laptopas undervolting increases it01:57
DocScrutinizer06kicks in at 528, at 533 it hits the roof, at 600 it skyrockets01:57
Woody14619It clearly does.  But the failure rate on the chip is ~5 years.  If OC lessens that life by a year, but lets you actually continue to USE the device another 2 vs getting a faster one when you "need" it, what's lost?01:57
DocScrutinizer06omap has EOL of 100k@500 and 10k@60001:58
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DocScrutinizer06guess what it has at 70001:58
Woody14619Would you sooner not have the OC option, and have people dump the device like the GTA02 when something faster comes along?01:58
Woody14619Or have the option to OC and have that device be viable for another year, vs in a land-fill.01:59
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer06: they are mean failure times01:59
DocScrutinizer06I just hate dudes that think they can argue from their primary scool math01:59
zeq_laptopit could be *worse* ;)01:59
DocScrutinizer06zeq_laptop: yep01:59
DocScrutinizer06actually it's 15 of 1000 assumed dead after 10k hours @ 60002:00
DocScrutinizer06at extended temp range02:00
zeq_laptopdo they have the stats for undervolting?02:00
DocScrutinizer06NOBODY of you all did those testes02:01
Woody14619And 10K @600 takes how long for a typical user?  Considering it runs 95% of it's life at 0...02:01
zeq_laptopI am genuinely curious02:01
DocScrutinizer06or sis anybody?02:01
Woody14619Doc: yes... TI did.  Which is why they sold them as 500Mhz devices and not 700Mhz.  Their ramps are in the chip spec.  And are not that dramatic.02:02
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: you can cosider whatever you like. Your neighbour, watching lots of vidoes via mplayer w/o DSP accel, may have different results. WERY different02:02
Woody14619And Titan DID project out that curve, which is why his suggestion was not to go over 850.02:02
zeq_laptop805 I believe02:02
MrPinguIs our chip in N900 originally clocked at 500 and overclocked to 600 by Nokia?02:03
Woody14619Doc: That same neighbor playing videos on stock is going to get the same life out of it, if not less, when he can't watch 720p and goes and gets a new Android device after a year.02:03
MrPinguOr wat that a random example, Woody14619?02:03
DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: yep02:03
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DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: TI recommendations: 100kh @OPP1..4 15kH@OPP502:04
Woody14619Again... if the *usable* lifetime of a device can be extended via OC, you've lost nothing.02:04
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Woody14619If the option is get a new device or OC the one you have to keep up, one makes more land fill.  Who cares if it lessens the life of the device which you would have otherwise thrown away?02:05
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: then you need to argue on THAT basis, and you'll not see any post from me02:05
Woody14619At > 2 years post launch, I think that's pretty much the given at this point.02:06
DocScrutinizer06arguing "OC is safe as we don't know for sure"... MEH02:06
MrPinguBesides shorter life time of chip are there more considerable negative effects?02:06
zeq_laptopThis reminds me, the very laptop I'm on a Dell Lattitude, from Dell comes with BIOS voltages above std values for the chip in order to reduce initial failure rates from marginally defective silicon!02:06
DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: ^^^02:06
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DocScrutinizer06shorter battery standby time maybe02:07
Woody14619.oO(Now you're opening the door for "race to finish" debates... ;)02:07
DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: however chip usually doesn't cease to work, it just "segfaults" every more often02:07
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: not really02:08
Woody14619And/or nukes your flash data.02:08
DocScrutinizer06yep, that too02:08
ds3are there currently any reliable source for replacement digitizers on the N900?02:08
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Woody14619some would say OC would allow longer standby, as what work is being done finishes faster.02:08
ds3saremi is a store/site/person?02:08
MrPinguHmm, don't buy from phf  (germany)02:09
zeq_laptopWoody14619: that there is actually some research on02:09
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: I know "race to finish" concept02:09
DocScrutinizer06MrPingu: shop02:09
Woody14619As do I.  At least 2 tests were done (one by vi__, one by Titus) that shows the "optimal" speed near 500Mhz.02:09
MrPinguYet, they are offering to pay back shippingcosts twice02:10
Woody14619So, that's a good argument for a min-clock of 500.  Though not one for overclock per-se. ;)02:10
MrPinguThough I have lost a bit of trust...02:10
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: 500? surprise surprise ;-P02:11
Woody14619Almost like it was designed to go that fast? ;)02:11
ds3DocScrutinizer: <--- is this the site you are suggesting?02:11
DocScrutinizer06Woody14619: there's another aspect: thermal design02:12
MrPinguThinking of just ignoring and buy it from saremi, like you suggested, doc02:12
MrPinguOr just hope I get a genuine one after this time...02:12
DocScrutinizer06all Nokia hw engineers warned us to lock CPU at even 60002:12
Woody14619Again, we're in violent agreement on this... :P02:12
MrPinguOr send it back, and ask for refund and then buy from saremi :P02:12
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MrPinguChoices, choices... :P02:13
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Woody14619Except that, I say, if people want to OC, let them.  Where you seem to say, don't bother with OC (or thumb, or other misc micro-enhacement) as it won't be used by the masses.02:13
ds3whoa... $12002:14
Woody14619If that were the case, items like the N900 (and the GTA* series, and smart cars, and ....) wouldn't exist.02:14
DocScrutinizer06no, I hate it as I feel bad buying used N90002:14
ds3was there 2 entirely different releases of the N900? the 'original' N900 stuff do not match what I got02:15
DocScrutinizer06aI'm perfectly happy with somebody deliberatly frying his N900 @ 1.2GHz for numer crunching, as he needs his PIN for credit card02:15
Woody14619I picked up a refurb from a Chinese distributer a couple months ago for about that...   Old guts, new kb, case, stylus, battery, etc.02:16
Woody14619No ds3... If the stats are not the same then it's a knockoff.02:16
DocScrutinizer06I hate tose 'experts' suggesting Nokia and TI don't know shit and "WFM, since 7 months now!!!1!1!!1eleven"02:16
Woody14619I don't think anyone actually involved in OC have ever said that...02:16
MrPinguDs3, be aware there ARE fake digitizers02:17
DocScrutinizer06if you're aware and accepting you're frying your CPU by OC, go on do it if you think it's worth it02:17
ds3Woody14619: the original USB cables I got had a different overmold then pictured... also I didn't get a micro to old style charger adapter... mine came from Dell so I wonder if the US had different stuff02:17
Woody14619Why blame them for something a nerf says after locking their device on1100Mhz?02:17
zeq_laptopAm I the only one who thinks undervolting is more significant anyway?02:17
ds3MrPingu: sigh.02:17
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ds3I should just go learn to manufacture my own02:17
infobotfrom memory, oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s02:17
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, omap-oc is  read that!, or and this
Woody14619zeq_laptop: No... I agree, especially enabling SR1/SR2, which Nokia just didn't want to put the effort into to optimize.02:18
DocScrutinizer06~factinfo oc02:18
infobotoc -- created by jameswf-home <> at Mon Feb 25 00:03:20 2008 (1576 days); it has been requested 13 times, last by DocScrutinizer06, 34s ago.02:18
infobot"OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"02:18
Woody14619ds3: yes, the US one came with the converter (from Nokia USA anyway)02:19
DocScrutinizer06thanks apt!02:19
MrPinguAs much as I like to hang aroun any longer here, I have to get some sleep02:19
infobotDocScrutinizer06: :)02:19
zeq_laptopMrPingu: you're not alone ... goodnight02:20
DocScrutinizer06n8, now for real02:20
Woody14619doc: I think really, since the package to install warns of just that, that it's a known....02:20
DocScrutinizer06you'd start to wheep if you'd seen what I've, in this chan02:21
zeq_laptopWoody14619: I would agree, except why the hell does it go upto 1150?!?02:21
DocScrutinizer06don't assume any degree of stupidity at $user, you're underestimating02:22
zeq_laptopit really should be limited to something like 805.02:22
Woody14619again... If I put out the super-gizmo-app that lets you make your system X times faster at the cost of 1/X of it's life, and state that in the installer...  It seems wrong to punish or rant becuase someone make X=99 for their device and then whines.02:22
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DocScrutinizer06nobody rants02:23
Woody14619zeq: And who decides that?  You?  Council?  Technically, Nokia did decide that... at 600.02:23
Woody14619doc: I disagree... scroll up... ;)02:23
DocScrutinizer06[20.06.2012 01:17:23] <DocScrutinizer06> if you're aware and accepting you're frying your CPU by OC, go on do it if you think it's worth it02:23
zeq_laptopWoody14619: it's so far out of spec for any random omap02:24
Woody14619And again, it's part of the package install... it pops up a user UI that you must click OK on to install.02:24
Woody14619zeq_laptop: And yet some can handle it...02:24
zeq_laptopfor a while02:24
Woody14619Again.... X times the speed, 1/X times the life.02:25
DocScrutinizer06ok, I (eben *I*) click OK so many times with just wondering what I did *after* I did02:25
DocScrutinizer06but I agree we can't do any better02:25
DocScrutinizer06and no, I don't think it should be limited to XXX02:25
Woody14619Trust me... I regular TMO.... I've seen the wailing when someone installs CSSU and wants out, not realizing they need to reflash to go back.02:26
DocScrutinizer06I just hope everybody clearly mentions 2it *will* shorten your CPU lifetime by a probably remarkable timespan, but otherise it seems to work"02:26
Woody14619Despite it being in the repo description, and the main package update, and the wiki, and...02:26
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zeq_laptopWoody14619: that's because it isn't from Nokia, so how can it be *official*02:27
zeq_laptopregarding CSSU02:27
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DocScrutinizer06there's just too many fools out there that use primary scool math and physics to claim they *know* OC is SAFE02:28
Woody14619And all the documentation pretty much does, as does the installer.  Now, abill_uk, he'll argue till the death that it's 100%, but he also thinks Elop has cameras setup in his house spying on him to get new ideas for the new Maemo7 prototype due out next month...02:28
* Woody14619 nods02:28
* Woody14619 shrieks: "There's someone on the internet, and their WRONG!"02:29
DocScrutinizer06and me is a character that powers up the ICBM and MTHELs when reading that02:29
zeq_laptopWoody14619: better the first time :)02:29
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer06: yet they won't listen, because they *know*02:30
DocScrutinizer06zeq_laptop: *sigh* I learnt you're right02:30
infobotrumour has it, xkcd is or only the best webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math and language.02:31
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Woody14619And on that note.... I'm off.  Have a nice night/morning/whatever-damn-time-it-is-where-you're-at.02:31
zeq_laptopbye Woody1461902:31
DocScrutinizer06nite fellas, I gotta design your next modem tomorrow02:31
zeq_laptopgoodnight DocScrutinizer0602:32
Woody14619.oO(and by gone I mean away... because really, to close the IRC window.. such a bother...)02:32
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DocScrutinizer06me mumbles "google U8500, novathor, lte"02:33
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brzyshey guyz03:14
brzysim trying to mount img on my n900 but im getting an error: "mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /mnt failed: Invalid argument", any ideas?03:15
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cehtehhow do you try that?03:25
cehtehfilesystem not in kernel/ not loaded?03:25
brzysmount -o loop,offset=3225 slitaz.img .slitaz03:27
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cehtehbrzys: give the filesystem type03:57
cehtehand modprobe the filesystem if you dont have so03:57
cehtehautodetection may work to but iirc you need -t auto at least then (and it can be unreliable in few cases)03:58
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EdLinsomebody claimed that Nokia said in their shareholder minutes that was going to get shut down, is anything being done about that?06:00
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Sc0rpiusthat's a fact indeed, and there's a thread in about it06:08
LaoLang_cooloh, bad news06:09
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EdLinSc0rpius, if I got a nokia n900, as a sort of upgrade to my n810 and as a new device to hack with, would the repositories become shut down?06:09
Sc0rpiusyeah, everything will be down06:09
EdLinSc0rpius, I assume I could just plug in the new repositories, are there mirrors yet?06:10
Sc0rpiusread that thread06:10
Sc0rpiusand who's paying06:10
Sc0rpiuswho will pay new repositories, new websites, new everything?06:10
EdLinSc0rpius, it'd be possible to host the repositories somewhere, plenty of Linux distributions do this.06:10
Sc0rpiuswhile nobody is paying, there's no solution.06:10
Sc0rpiusyou can start reading the whole thread first, understanding it, and then post your comment and ideas there.06:11
EdLinDo I have to? Lots of trolls on TMO. :)06:11
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EdLinI already read the first couple of pages.06:12
EdLinwhat I don't see is anyone stepping forward to try to find mirrors who'll take the maemo repos.06:12
EdLinunfortunately I haven't been in academia for a long time, or I'd have the connections neccesary to arrange it.06:13
Sc0rpiusit's not that easy that's why I'm pointing to the thread06:13
EdLinbut someone is.06:13
Sc0rpiusNokia should sell the domains, because if you create new repos, people at and this channel will find out, but we're only like 1% of the MAemo users worldwide.06:13
Sc0rpiusand the other 99% can't be fucked up like that06:13
Sc0rpiusso the domain names should be kept identical06:14
EdLinthere are non-enthusiasts who use the n900?06:14
Sc0rpiusif there are 500,000 N900 users in the world, only 1,000 go to maemo.org06:14
Sc0rpiusI have found many N900 users and never heard about maemo.org06:14
EdLinas for Nokia selling the domains, look at what the MS-owned-and-operated management did with the N9 and consider the chances that they would avoid fucking us over.06:15
EdLinI mean, it won't hurt to ask.06:15
EdLinbut don't count on it.06:15
Sc0rpiusthat's what the council is for06:15
EdLinwell, does the council appear to have that on their agenda?06:16
Sc0rpiusI don't know you can ask Estel when he's around (he usually is)06:16
Sc0rpiusbut I think that has been addressed in
EdLinI'm concerned that one day my n810 will be inoperative, and until I heard this news, was considering switching to an n900. But if nobody seems interested in doing anything but moving on to bigger or better things....06:17
Sc0rpiusyou don't have an N900?¿06:18
ShadowJKI currently have 2 working N900s06:18
Sc0rpiusI wouldn't suggest anyone TODAY to get one, or an N9, or any other already-dropped-and-forgotten Nokia06:18
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Sc0rpiusand anyway there's no place left to buy one hehe06:19
ShadowJKAs N810 replacement, N900 is fine.06:19
ShadowJKDepends what aspects of N810 you like06:19
EdLinSc0rpius, I have an n810, considering getting an n900 on eBay.06:19
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EdLinShadowJK, I like that it's like a small Linux computer, rather than a locked down phone thingie.06:19
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ShadowJKN9 is a bit locked down, N900 is like "install rootshell from app manager, type root in x-terminal", and you've got full access06:20
EdLinShadowJK, so I hear, that's why I want a n900 rather than an n9. Price also plays a role, ebay sells n900s more in my budget range.06:21
EdLinbut if the repos will go belly-under, with everyone doing nothing but whine about it, I think I'll stick to hacking my HD2 with various closed sorts of operating systems.06:22
Sc0rpiusN900 is already 5 years old06:22
EdLinno, it's from 2009.06:22
Sc0rpiuswell, 3 years old, that's a lot for a phone06:22
ShadowJKDecember 200906:23
EdLinbut nothing else has come along like it.06:23
Sc0rpiusand never will06:23 has guaranteed funding until end of year, iirc06:23
Sc0rpiusthe world is not ready for 100% OpenSource OSes yet.  The world is not ready for not making tons and tons of money selling a phone06:23
EdLinthat's 6 months.06:23
ShadowJKAnd there are more than one person doing daily mirrors of it...06:24
EdLinShadowJK, that's nice to hear.06:24
ShadowJKit works on 12 month cycles, iirc06:24
ShadowJKPeople disappear on vacation in June, return in September-ish and start looking at what to fund06:24
ShadowJKor something like that06:25
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EdLinShadowJK, yeah, Europeans have real vacations. ;-)06:25
EdLinhere you're part of the ruling class if you get 2 weeks.06:26
ShadowJKWell it's that northern europe starts in June, and southern europe starts in septemner, so it takes until october until you can expect nobody to be missing06:26
EdLinI see.06:26
EdLinso that means, assuming 6 months notice, we can probably assume maemo devices will have working repos until April of next year.06:28
EdLinthat gives the council plenty of time to work with the community to find an alternative, instead of saying not to worry about it.06:29
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luke-jrSc0rpius: Think N900 will one day run a 100% open source OS? :P07:21
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kerioluke-jr: well, CSSU is getting pretty close, isn't it08:49
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luke-jrkerio: doubt it, but I don't really follow CSSU08:50
luke-jrkerio: Maemo was only like 40% open source to begin with; replacing most of the system doesn't seem so trivial08:50
kerioyeah but that's what they've been doing :)08:50
luke-jrand there's stuff like the GLES drivers that are huge efforts to recreate08:51
kerioanyway, the n900 is from 2009 but it was outdated at launch08:51
luke-jryeah, nothing better yet tho :/08:51
kerioyeah :(08:51
kerioi really hate the fact that i'm probably just going to get a galaxy s308:52
kerioand deal with the awful OS08:52
luke-jrI really hope I win a N95008:52
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LaoLang_cool /j #vim08:57
kerioLaoLang_cool: wrong editor08:57
LaoLang_coolkerio, I really like it on n90008:59
keriobut... emacs! :c08:59
LaoLang_coolkerio, heh, vim is the only reason I choose n90009:03
luke-jrbut nano09:04
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zeq_laptopI'm trying to rebuild qtm11/12, I've fixed a couple of unexpected build bugs in the maemo support (how did it build successfully previously?).  Now apparently, it needs an updated libtpsession, so I tried to check it out from, but the SSL cert expired on 30/12/11!?!10:04
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LaoLang_coolHow to set the mec.ini to let the led notification always on?10:09
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zeq_laptopnever mind, it's a libtelepathy-qt4 change that's causing the build failure10:17
zeq_laptop*sigh* where did qt-mobility-1.14 even come from? has the latest 1.1 version @1.1.3... git checkout I suppose...10:26
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: seems like libqtm-11 isn't maintained anymore, last commit from from September last year, and it no longer compiles against our current version of libtelepathy-qt4.  I could fix it, but should I just concentrate on libqtm-12 instead? Is there any reason for the non-modular packaging with libqtm-12?10:41
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I've successfully built both now.  While I'm working on this, should I change the packaging for libqtm12 to match libqtm11, and/or update the libqtm12 snapshot?11:20
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teotwakiWhy never?12:42
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SpeedEvilThe slashdot link.12:42
SpeedEvilMicrosofts aspiration to be a hardware maker too.12:43
teotwakiI don't believe that, even if I have to rip out the HCM with my teeth and solder the shit out of my mobo so that I can run whatever I want, that's what I'll do.12:43
teotwakiHeck, I'm fairly sure that the same way we've got geeks making makerbots, we'll see alternate companies, small time, sure, but making mobos and whatnot that can run anything we want12:43
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SpeedEvilThe problem then arises that the CPU is only sold with the trusted module installed.12:44
SpeedEvilAnd at best - if you can get 'blank' CPUs - you have to replace it.12:44
SpeedEvilIf you can't, then you're faced with a brick.12:45
teotwakiYeah, I don't see that happening12:46
teotwakiEven if Shuttleworth has to throw all his money at that lawsuit, he will.12:46
SpeedEvilIt's already almost there. Some CPUs already pretty much support this.12:46
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SpeedEvilerr - what?12:46
SpeedEvilIt's not illegal,if there are two hardware makers, as there isn't an anti-trust issue12:47
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teotwakino, but we can sue them for preventing us from doing what we want with it.12:47
SpeedEvilTwo locked-down hardware makers - apple/microsoft - are quite legal.12:47
SpeedEvilAnd lose.12:47
SpeedEvilYou don't have to buy either tablet.12:47
SpeedEvilIn principle, a third maker could startup.12:47
teotwakiOh, I don't care about the tablet12:47
SpeedEvilBy tablet, I mean 'computing device'12:48
teotwakiWell, I don't buy into all the whole FUD that goes around this time of year12:50
teotwakiGNU/Linux was developed to break free from the autocracy of Unix. I'm fairly certain we can do it a second time.12:50
SpeedEvilHardware is a problem.12:51
teotwakiNo, it's not.12:51
teotwakiLook at the hardware we have today, seriously.12:51
teotwakiWe could run the same hardware for the next ten years, and not give a flying fuck.12:51
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SpeedEvilIf the end user cannoy purchase new hardware - your project has failed.12:51
SpeedEvilAs a mass market idea.12:52
teotwakiI'm not saying that's what is going to happen12:52
teotwakiI'm just saying, Amiga is still around, heck, you still find forums for Apple II hobbyists, I doubt you can still buy the hardware.12:52
teotwakiAnd quite frankly, I don't _believe_ in the hardware apocalypse as it being told right now.12:53
teotwakiFuck, I'll start a hardware company if need be.12:53
SpeedEvilTo make a compelling entry into the tablet/laptop market, you are going to need >>10 million, if you do it from scratch.12:54
teotwakiThat's not really a problem.12:55
SpeedEvilAnd that assumes you can get components.12:55
teotwaki10M is nothing.12:55
SpeedEvilWhere compelling = a couple of years old12:55
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vi_SpeedEvil: I will just run vintage hardware forever then.12:57
vi_They cannot take my P4 back.12:58
vi_Vim is not getting any heavier.12:58
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SpeedEvilUntil it dies.12:58
teotwakiyeah, I'm pretty sure eBay will disappear the day Microsoft goes Evil.12:59
SpeedEvilThe above is somewhat pessimistic.12:59
SpeedEvilIt neglects for example chinese tabletmakers, and android.12:59
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teotwakiI don't believe for a single second that Microsoft is going to abandon the OEMs12:59
teotwakiI just _don't_.12:59
SpeedEvilBut if microsoft + apple could get to the point that they integrate the hardware makers, and manage to capture most of the market - things just got a lot less flexible.13:00
teotwakiThat's speculative bollocks, funded on nothing but a tin foil hat that's squeezed on a little too tight, and blocking the blood from reaching the brain.13:00
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teotwakiBut Microsoft doesn't want that.13:00
SpeedEvilAnd several years ago, the notion that you cannot run your own programs on a computer would seem very tin-foil-hattish13:00
teotwakiWait, I can't run my own programs on my computer?13:01
SpeedEvilNot on an apple computer, in many instances, without paying tax.13:01
vi_I can confirm this.13:12
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kerioSpeedEvil: not on an iphone13:16
keriowhich is *far* from being a computer13:16
keriofor instance, you can't run your own programs on it, without paying a tax13:17
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vi_kerio: a iphone IS a computer.13:29
keriovi_: it's a fucking phone13:29
kerioa n900 is a computer13:30
vi_A locked down box with no controls and a fancy pants UI but a computer none the less.13:30
mgedminthis is like discussing whether a tree makes a sound when it falls down in a forest with nobody to hear13:30
mgedminit depends on how you define "sound" -- or "computer"13:31
kerioif a tree falls down in a forest, and apple forces you to pay money to develop for it, is it really a computer?13:31
keriono, wait13:31
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vi_It must be an engineer thing to see things for what they are then.13:34
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Lava_Croftyou know whats so funny about apple13:42
Lava_Crofti know tons of people who in their field are quite hacker-esque13:42
Lava_Croftsay, create they own tools, edit stuff they bought and make it more to their liking13:43
Lava_Croftbut when it comes to computers and mobiles, they all of a sudden happily embrace being locked down13:43
Lava_Croftand when confronted with this odd difference, they just shrug it off13:43
kerioLava_Croft: the iphone is fucking horrible, and the mac pro is kinda meh13:47
kerioi mean, it's neat, but nothing really special13:47
Lava_Croftiphone is pretty special13:48
keriobut the imac is still the best all-in-one desktop13:48
Lava_Croftsince its really good at the few things it can do13:48
kerioand their laptops are fucking awesome13:48
Lava_Croftbetter than nokia or samsung is at these few simple things13:48
Lava_Croftbut only for those very few things13:48
chem|stLava_Croft: you never had a phone doing those simple things better than iphone...? even my old sony blasts some iphone "features" still13:57
Lava_Crofttoo bad sony never sold more than 10 phones13:57
Lava_Croftwhile people buy silly iphone after silly overpriced iphone13:58
Lava_Croftso reality begs to differ13:58
Sc0rpiuspeople buy iPhone to say they "can" buy an iPhone, it's like an status thing13:58
Sc0rpiuslike "I have more money than you, look, I drive a Ferrari and I have an iPhone"13:58
Lava_Croftnot with the iphone users i know13:58
Lava_Croftthey just want shit that works and feels solid13:59
Sc0rpiusit's not because the phone is better than other options13:59
Lava_Croftbut thats the point, it is13:59
Lava_Croftboth software and hardware13:59
Sc0rpiusnot to me13:59
chem|stowning an iphone is like having 1000+ friends on facebook, status...13:59
Lava_Croftnot to me either13:59
Sc0rpiusto me an iPhone is pure crap13:59
Lava_Croftthats why im here13:59
Lava_Croftits not pure crap to me, im not a liar13:59
Lava_Croftcrap is what samsung makes13:59
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Sc0rpiusI'd rather get a Galaxy S than an iPhone13:59
chem|stLava_Croft: it is not in terms of software nore in terms of hardware13:59
Lava_Croftand just about any other android OEM13:59
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Sc0rpiusoh well I love Samsung13:59
Sc0rpiusall my TVs are Samsung and hell they are way better than Sonys13:59
chem|stLava_Croft: nokia holds the position of best cameraphone for ages now13:59
Lava_Crofti should have know better than to say anything positive regarding iphones14:00
Lava_Croftyou always get bitter nerds14:00
Lava_Crofthave a nice day!14:00
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Lava_Croft(and im a n900/n9 user)14:00
Sc0rpiusfunny thing I'm in a rock band how come I am a nerd14:00
chem|stSc0rpius: that is because samsung has the best displays, in terms of smartTV they need to improve alot, in terms of 3D they need to improve a lot more!14:00
Sc0rpiusI love those SmartTVs14:01
Sc0rpiusI don't have one though14:01
Sc0rpiusI have normal Samsung LCD TVs14:01
Sc0rpiusnot even LED14:01
chem|stLava_Croft: bitter nerds? I could buy an iphone or two... but I just don't want this shit...14:01
Sc0rpiuswell my Apple hate is much deeper than that and more ancient14:02
Lava_Croftstay bitter14:02
Lava_Croftbeing bitter is very productive14:02
chem|stSc0rpius: I have one, tested the newest gen as well14:02
Sc0rpiusthe only product Apple did absolutely right was the Apple ][c14:02
Sc0rpiusand even then, the C64 was better.14:02
Sc0rpiusSteve Jobs has alwasy been a fucking asshole that's why destiny, the devil, or maybe God punished him14:03
Lava_Croftyou sound mentally disturbed14:03
Sc0rpiusI'm full of hate14:03
Sc0rpiusthat's all14:03
kerioSc0rpius: yeah, he totally deserved liver cancer, right14:03
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Lava_Croftwatch starwars14:03
kerioi don't even14:03
Lava_Crofttheres a green midget in there with some sound advice14:03
Sc0rpiusI don't know if he deserved it, but there's a saying where I come from that goes something like (it's hard in english) "if you act bad, bad things will happen to you"14:04
chem|stSc0rpius: for artists there is much more "good" in apple than anywhere else, but that is the same with windows then... if those companies would migrate to linux noone would talk about microsoft or apple after 20years from now, apart from once upon a time....14:04
kerioSc0rpius: so... you're saying he deserved it14:04
Sc0rpiusLava_Croft, you really sound like an Apple lover14:04
Lava_CroftSc0rpius: yes i dont mindlessly hate on apple14:04
Sc0rpiuswhat's good in Apple? just myths14:04
Sc0rpiusfor example14:04
Lava_Croftso i must be an apple lover, right14:04
Sc0rpiusthere's a myth that a Mac is better for graphics design and stuff14:04
Lava_Croftthis is exactly the mindset that ruins communities like these14:04
Sc0rpiusthat's so wrong that there isn't even Photoshop 64 bits for Macs14:05
Lava_Croftyou hate so much on what is not your community/device14:05
Lava_Croftin an attempt to make your own look better14:05
chem|stLava_Croft: I do not say this and that is the best, but all apple fanboys tell apple is the best...14:05
Lava_Croftbut imagine that some vacuum cleaner salesman comes at your door14:05
chem|stand it isn't14:05
Lava_Croftand instead of tell you how awesome his vacuum cleaner is14:05
chem|stit is not even close to14:05
Sc0rpiuswell I'm the first one that always say NO to people that come here asking if they should get an N90014:05
kerioSc0rpius: you mean except photoshop cs514:05
Lava_Crofthe starts to tell you how bad your current one is14:05
Lava_Croftthats a rather bad sales tactic14:05
chem|stit is what attracts dumb people14:05
Lava_Croftcertainly when im already using the device you love so much14:05
chem|stlike whatsapp for example14:05
Sc0rpiusLava_Croft, I could care less if you use an N9 N900 or an Android phone14:05
Sc0rpiusbut if you use Apple, you should be hated14:05
chem|stpeople jump on the bandwagon14:06
Sc0rpiusby anyone, anywhere.14:06
Lava_Croftstay bitter14:06
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kerioSc0rpius: i would totally agree with you14:06
kerioexcept for the fact THAT THEY MAKE THE BEST LAPTOPS14:06
Sc0rpiusbut it's true what I said, Apple has just "fame" but they are not better in anything than other options.14:06
kerionothing comes anywhere *close*14:06
Sc0rpiusto a Macbook?14:07
Sc0rpiusI have had Asus laptops way better than any Macbook14:07
kerioi'm sure you tried many14:07
Sc0rpiuslike the beautiful Asus Zenbook Prime14:07
Sc0rpiusway thinner than a Macbook14:08
Sc0rpiusway lighter14:08
Sc0rpiusway faster14:08
Sc0rpiusand way cheaper.14:08
kerio...and 13" at most14:08
keriothat's a netbook14:08
keriodon't be ridiculous14:08
Sc0rpiusnetbook with an i7?14:08
Sc0rpiusdon't think so.14:08
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Sc0rpiusjust 1.3 kgs, SSD drive, it's beautiful14:09
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chem|stkerio: wrong again, the best laptop suits your needs and costs about 600eur, imagine the hardware you get for those 2k you would spend on a powerbook14:09
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Sc0rpiusthat's the point14:09
Sc0rpiusI don't wanna spend 2 grand14:09
keriochem|st: i'm sure i can get a 2880x1800 monitor, 7 hours of battery life on a 600€ laptop14:09
jogaaren't the new macbooks basically impenetrable blobs of cost-a-lot that can't be fixed in rational ways14:12
chem|stkerio: you are nuts!14:12
keriojoga: yeah, ifixit called them "the least repairable macbook pro ever"14:12
chem|stkerio: what do you need that resolution for on a 13" laptop14:12
keriochem|st: 1514:12
chem|stor even 15?14:12
kerioidk, to do shit14:13
chem|stkerio: you don't know is exactly the right answere14:13
Sc0rpiuswhich Macbook is that because the Apple Macbook Pro 15" is just 1366x76814:13
keriootoh, every time i moved to a monitor with a higher resolution, i enjoyed it more14:13
kerioSc0rpius: the "retina" one14:13
chem|stselling stuff to people overpriced which the do not need is reflecting a good marketing14:14
keriochem|st: is resolution *bad* now?14:14
kerioyou're the kind of person to blame for monitor stagnation14:14
keriothe most you can get is fucking 1080p now, even for desktop monitors14:14
keriochem|st: why do you need a quadcore? why do you need an ssd?14:15
Sc0rpiuswell at least a hybrid14:15
Sc0rpiusbut I don't think I need more than 1920x108014:15
chem|stkerio: I have a 40" TV on my desk... and would love to have 3840x2160 sure but it is not needed!14:15
kerioSc0rpius: 1920x1200 (on a 17") is beginning to feel a bit cramped here, actually14:15
chem|stsome like 2400x1400 would be fair enough14:16
Sc0rpiusI have a 21"14:16
Sc0rpiusor 22"14:16
Sc0rpiusI don't use laptops14:16
Sc0rpiusjust desktops and netbooks14:16
Sc0rpiusI have two monitors in this desktop, the first one with W7 and the second one with Ubuntu in a VM14:16
chem|stmy netbook could use some mor in Y but it is just a 10" screen...14:16
Sc0rpiusI can't live without both OS *at the same time*14:17
Sc0rpiusmy netbook has lubuntu which is incredibly fast.14:17
Sc0rpiusif you have a netbook please format it and install that14:17
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chem|stSc0rpius: never ever! have debian from scratch with ion3 on my netbook...14:18
Sc0rpiusthat's too slow14:19
chem|styou think14:19
Sc0rpiusyup, try lubuntu in a flash drive (without touching your OS installed)14:19
Sc0rpiusand you'll see the difference14:19
chem|stI get 5hours of videoplayback out of it and still have 30minutes left reading from the batterymeter14:20
Sc0rpiusion3 hasn't been updated since 2009 I think14:20
Sc0rpiuswell that's good14:20
kerioi'm using debian with openbox here14:20
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kerioi'm not convinced i could learn how to use a tiling wm :s14:21
Sc0rpiusit's for keyboard fans14:21
Sc0rpiusyou don't even need to use the mouse14:21
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chem|stkerio: quick search gives me a sony vaio for 900eur 15.5" 1920x1080 which is more than enough for that size14:24
r00t|homei use a tiling windowmanager and a mouse14:24
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keriochem|st: i'm glad that you hold the truth regarding screen sizes and resolutions14:25
keriootoh, *i'm a bit cramped with 1920x1200*14:25
r00t|homethe correlation between tiling and mouse-usage is only in user personalities... from a usage point of view, both non-tiling WMs can be operated with keyboard and tiling ones with mouse14:25
kerioso 1080p is most definetely not enough14:25
chem|str00t|home: no mouse otg... and I dare you telling me to use that 2x4cm touchpad on my netbook...14:25
chem|stkerio: for 15"?14:25
chem|stit is14:26
Sc0rpiusI wonder what kind of eyes you have because @ 1920x1080 I have to zoom all the fonts like 2x or 3x their size14:26
Sc0rpiusor I start having headaches, and yes I wear glasses14:26
kerioSc0rpius: the kind that hasn't been destroyed by old age yet14:26
Sc0rpiusI see.14:26
Sc0rpiusso you're younger than 40?14:26
Sc0rpiusthat explains it.14:26
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zeqfreemangordon: fennec build failed again because the mozilla configure doesn't use pkg-config for qt, but instead assumes all qt libs and includes are installed at QTDIR.  I'll convert it to use pkg-config when I get home.14:48
freemangordonzeq: ok. BTW I still fail to see why did you play wtih qtm11/1214:50
freemangordonwhat was missing in 1.0.2?14:50
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zeqfreemangordon: it uses a few APIs not present in 1.0. I don't have the details of which particulars to hand though.15:04
freemangordonaaah, ok15:04
freemangordonzeq, the proper way to use qtm11/12 is to add config += mobility11(12) in .pro file15:05
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Macerhow are you eu members feeling about germany leading a 1T bailout of the EU?15:09
Macerthey said $1T on the local news.. is it actually 1T euros?15:09
Macergermany is probably paying it with cash money15:09
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RaimuNah, gold.15:34
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chem|stMacer: there is only 890Beurs available printed... afair, how would they pash that amount cash?15:45
merlin1991chem|st: you ought to shift your hands into some direction on your keyboard, or you didn't have your coffee yet :P15:46
chem|stmerlin1991: I just recognized...15:46
chem|sttalking to somewone while looking at him and typing at the same time... does not work well15:47
chem|stand coffee is a good point... off to the machine!15:48
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Macerreally? only 890B?15:50
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vi_Why is Germany bailing everyone out yet?15:55
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vi_The only good thing I have seen come out of the EU is the no tax when buying somthing from an EU country, free(ish) movement when moving between member states and the harmonisation of micro USB as a standard phone charger.15:57
vi_Fuck all their other retard rules.15:57
vi_Anti-tampering motorcycle legislation can fuck off for example.15:57
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chem|stvi_: the fsck-off situation is that if euro-zone brakes most of the losses have to be paid by germany16:21
teotwakiI love the "mandatory ABS" on all new bikes thingie.16:23
teotwakiBecause manufacturers will be forced to provide it16:24
teotwakiThey'll do it at lowest possible cost16:24
teotwakiWhat we'll end up with are adventure/dirt bikes that are impossible to use, because the manufacturer didn't provide a way to turn off the ABS when needed.16:24
freemangordonWTF? mandatory ABS on bikes? hehe, those guys in EU parlament are crazy.16:26
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vi_teotwaki: so you hve heard of the dumbass rules to come?16:31
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vi_mandatory hi-vis.16:32
teotwakiI don't care.16:32
vi_Gonnae look great on my cruiser with wizards airbrushed in the tank.16:32
vi_(i dont have a cruiser)16:32
teotwakiThe same way they've been "forcing" me to add reflective material to my mate helmet.16:33
vi_wtf is a mate helmet?16:33
vi_Is that a helmet for mating?16:33
vi_Are they making you hi-vis your dong, bro?16:33
merlin1991wtf abs on a bikes?16:34
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vi_merlin1991: MOTORbikes16:34
merlin1991vi_: that makes a lot more sense16:34
merlin1991on the other hand do we have mandatory abs on cars?16:35
merlin1991ie my car doesn't have abs :D16:35
vi_Also no modification of anything from the 'powertrain'.16:35
vi_That is from the air filter to the sprocket at the back.16:35
vi_Imagine the iphone of Mbikes if you will.16:36
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vi_You can 'own' it as such, but you cannot 'use' it.16:36
vi_merlin1991: neither does mine, however my car is about 1 step from being a rolling skip.16:37
jacekowskimerlin1991: abs on bikes is a lot more usefull thing than on a car16:37
jacekowskimerlin1991: if your wheel lock on a bike that's it16:37
vi_jacekowski: have you seen speedway?16:37
jacekowskiwhat that has to do with it16:38
merlin1991dunno my 106 gets quite some rotation when I make an emergency stop16:38
merlin199150 to 0 in minumum time has me facing 90° different than before I start breaking16:38
jacekowskifix your brakes16:39
vi_Well in the UK we have 1 minister who rides a bike and he has allegedly been the voice of reason.  He has been arguing for concessions such as not including the whole ODB2 thing and 'turn-off-able' ABS.16:39
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jacekowskivi_: well, i don't think it should be mandatory16:39
vi_merlin1991: your car sounds as safe as mine.16:39
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jacekowskibut i think abs on a bike is a good thing16:39
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vi_jacekowski: The OPTION of ABS on a bike can only be seen as good.16:40
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jacekowskii would rather not have abs on car than on a bike16:40
jacekowskion a car you have much higher chance of recovering from locked wheels16:40
merlin1991vi_: how old is yours? (mine is 10 years old)16:40
vi_pre ODB16:41
vi_14 years16:41
vi_only 60000 miles16:41
vi_Has a worn ring.16:41
vi_Smokes like a 2-stroke bike.16:41
vi_But it does have a GNU sticker on the back and that makes it at least 1 more horse power.16:42
chem|stWindsurfen für Einsteiger16:43
vi_My bike however is a 1985 XT600.16:43
vi_It is a work of beauty.16:43
vi_A 2 wheeled tractor if you will.16:43
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chem|stvi_: I learned riding on one of those16:45
vi_They are very popular in Germany.16:45
vi_In fact the best XT600 forum on the net is entirely in German :(16:45
vi_chem|st: you have one?16:46
chem|sta coworker has one and I might have access to the one I started with16:46
vi_chem|st: do you know what year it is?16:47
chem|stI would buy it but the owner loves to have it16:47
chem|st85 I think16:47
vi_Same as mine!16:47
chem|stor 84 I think it was 18 when I started with16:48
vi_The XT600-43f.  Apparently the engine is good for 200000 miles if you take care of it.16:48
vi_84 was the first year they made it.16:48
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vi_The 83 version was the XT600Z tenere.16:49
chem|sthave no clue about it, I have 2 Ducs16:49
vi_chem|st: you have my attention...16:49
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chem|stvi_: hehe16:49
chem|st"what else do you have in the warehouse?"16:50
freemangordonjacekowski: the characters that are riding those bikes are not the same type as those that drive the cars ;). Plus removing of the ABS will as simple as cutting the 2 wires from the sensor :)16:50
vi_freemangordon: assuming your onboard ECU does not go 'WTF????MY ABS??? SHUTDOWN NOW!'16:51
freemangordonnaah, no way16:51
freemangordonimagine if that happens while you're riding16:51
freemangordonnoone will risk that, it is the same now with the cars16:52
chem|stvi_: a Triumph SpeedTripple, 2 Ducs Paso 907ie, a BMW100s-sidewagon, a Bimota Tesi2 and a Münch4Mammuth are ready to ride atm16:52
vi_freemangordon: yes, the bike goes into emergancy mode and shutsdown.16:52
freemangordonshutdown the engine?16:52
vi_freemangordon: not immediatley.16:52
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chem|stvi_: did you get a reply to your mail yet?16:53
freemangordonvi_: I refuse to believe the ECU will shut down because of the faulty sensor.16:54
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freemangordonit might go into a failsafe mode though16:54
chem|stfreemangordon: hopefully16:54
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freemangordonand failsafe in terms of ABS and brakes is ... guess what, brakes with no ABS16:55
vi_chem|st: No.16:55
teotwakino, failsafe of faulty ABS is lockdown.16:55
vi_freemangordon: I think you are optimistic as to what the EU want to inflict on us.16:55
fluxI was under the impression you can disable ABS from most cars by unplugging a fuse?16:56
freemangordonteotwaki: at least that is what happens on the cars, 90 perceon of taxies herein Sofia are with faulty ABS16:56
teotwakiflux: some, most now need intervention on the circuitry.16:56
chem|stvi_: the next they want me to wear proper helmets... like the italians16:56
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teotwakifreemangordon: except the ABS sensor on a bike is a lot more prone to breakage -- unless you're on a beemer, those things are not made to take hits.16:57
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vi_chem|st: ? But you already wear a helmet.16:57
chem|stvi_: sure...16:57
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freemangordonteotwaki: sure thing, but noone can prevent an access to the sensor wiring16:58
freemangordonfor the enough hard-trying biker16:58
chem|stand my helmet is a state of the art italian proof 290eur shoei...16:58
teotwaki290 is cheap16:58
chem|stit is my head for god sake!16:58
chem|stteotwaki: yeah they are usualy 340eur16:59
teotwakiI mean, 300euro price range is cheap for a decent helmet16:59
teotwaki300 gives you mid-range.16:59
freemangordonchem|st: wrong, it is EU's head :P16:59
chem|stI foundone without design on16:59
teotwakistate of the art is 800.16:59
chem|stteotwaki: I do not know where you buy helmets but the commonly bet helmets are in a range of 290-390eurs over here...17:00
teotwakiyes, and that's mid range :)17:00
chem|stput a design on it and they cost 450eur...17:00
teotwakidesign shouldn't cost you a penny if you purchase it at the right place17:01
chem|stteotwaki: then why are you paying 800eurs for a helmet which has technology inside you get for 450?17:01
teotwakithis is mine
chem|stthe cheap ones over here are like 130eur17:02
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teotwakiIn terms of quality, it's miles away from
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vi_I want an arai xd317:05
vi_But they cost about 2/3 the value of my bike.17:06
chem|stmy head shape does not fit arai...17:07
chem|stI stick with the RF 110017:07
DocScrutinizer51teotwaki: you're at RIM?17:10
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: the idiots who make BlackBerry?17:10
DocScrutinizer51I thouhjt so, yes17:10
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teotwakiNo fucking way.17:11
DocScrutinizer51migh've been timeless17:11
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: I work at a company called Interact-IV17:12
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DocScrutinizer51aah SIP etc17:12
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* timeless will look back later17:16
DocScrutinizer51timeless: you're at RIM?17:17
* timeless nods17:18
DocScrutinizer51(prolly not)17:19
* DocScrutinizer51 waves17:19
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teotwakitimeless: I thought you were at Nokia previously?17:44
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timelessfor 5 years17:44
timelessbut i left a bit over a year ago17:44
teotwakiI take you like sinking ships :)17:44
teotwakis/take/take it/17:44
infobotteotwaki meant: I take it you like sinking ships :)17:44
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ViltzuAnyone compiled Allegro5 for N900?17:50
ViltzuWhen I try to compile it on N900, and do "make". It goes well until it tries to link lib/liballegro.so17:51
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Viltzu"make[2]: *** [lib/] Error 1"17:52
Viltzu"make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/allegro.dir/all] Error 2"17:52
ViltzuThat doesn't tell anything... urh.17:52
ViltzuAnd cross compiling seems hard :p17:52
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StyXmanViltzu: check the logs higher up18:20
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ViltzuThere isn't any errors there. Just some assembler messages saying that rm, rdlo or something are different. (can't remember all)18:21
ViltzuBut not errors.18:21
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freemangordonzeq_laptop, Raimu : (and whoever is interseted) new version of thumb-cssu is out, with thumb2-compiled xserver and fixed kernel19:25
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: cool.  I had an update available notification this morning but deps seemed to be broken at the time.19:28
freemangordonyeah, I am just waaiting merlin1991 to finish his exams so I can kick him in the ass for setting up the repo in such a way that older versions of the packages are deleted when a new version is uploaded :D19:29
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freemangordonzeq_laptop: how is the fennec compilation going on?19:30
merlin1991freemangordon: did you add a conflict to the uboot image?19:31
freemangordonmerlin1991: nope, should I?19:32
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merlin1991ham claims the update conflicts with it somehow19:32
freemangordonconflict with wath, remind me please.19:32
merlin1991mp vs uboot kernel image19:32
freemangordonmerlin1991: u-boot pr-13?19:32
zeq_laptopthe pkg-config logic is sane afterall, kindof.  It goes through the Qt packages group by group and if any fail instead of erroring out it falls back to looking for the Qt libs/includes in QTDIR, even if it isn't set!19:32
freemangordonmerlin1991: but it should not conflict with it19:33
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: ah, yes. That's what happened to me this morning.19:33
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merlin1991freemangordon: nah, the uboot image of the cssu kernel19:34
freemangordonmerlin1991: after all you could safely boot cssu-kernel-bootimg qith u-boot and have a perfectly stable system19:34
merlin1991well nfc19:34
merlin1991didn't read the mesage from ham properly19:34
freemangordonotherwise you should break mp thing in order to use uboot19:34
freemangordonmerlin1991: there was a broken dependency, mp (oler version) was looking for kernel-cssu1, but there was kernel-cssu219:35
freemangordonkernel-cssu1 was automatically delete when i upload the new kernel19:35
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merlin1991I deinstalled the bootimg package and now the update works19:36
merlin1991freemangordon: yeah that's a shortcoming of reprepro19:36
merlin1991it only keeps one version19:36
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merlin1991I found something in the docs that could fix that and applied it to the config, but didn't have time to test it19:36
freemangordonaah, so it is not some setting? ok, I am not going to kick you then :P19:36
freemangordonwell, nevermind, I will be careful now I know what it does19:37
merlin1991if that config thingy doesn't fix it I'll look for another tool that does repos and can handle an incoming queue19:37
merlin1991but reprepro was quite nice to work with :/19:38
freemangordonmerlin1991: but it works pretty well, I was just not aware of this "functionality19:38
freemangordondon't touch it, it is working fine19:38
merlin1991works well as long as I remember to enable the incoming queue after a reboot ;)19:38
freemangordoncan't it be automatically enabled?19:39
freemangordonvia /etc/event.d or something?19:39
merlin1991yeah I'd have to write an init script :D19:39
merlin1991 /etc/init.d/ (it's a debian server)19:39
freemangordonno /etc/event.d on debian?19:40
freemangordonhmm, why we have it on n900 then ?!?19:40
merlin1991because n900 uses upstart19:40
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freemangordonwell, anyway, it is gettting too complicated for me :)19:41
merlin1991debian uses sysvinit as init19:41
merlin1991mamo uses upstart19:41
zeq_laptopas does ubuntu19:41
merlin1991and mr pöttering wants us all to use systemd ;)19:41
zeq_laptopI actually like systemd19:41
freemangordonmr who?19:42
merlin1991srly infobot19:42
freemangordonwon't work, there is some strange symbol in your paste19:42
ivgalvezand which version of upstart are we using?19:42
ivgalvezI guess too old?19:42
merlin1991freemangordon: mr Lennart Poettering19:42
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''19:42
merlin1991there we go :D19:43
freemangordonyeah :D:D:D19:43
ivgalvezauthor of Pulseaudio as well19:43
zeq_laptopPulseaudio is okay too :P19:43
ivgalvezso I won't jump to systemd to fast19:43
zeq_laptopsystemd is fine, it's just different19:43
merlin1991what's the 3rd big thing he did?19:43
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merlin1991ah yeah avahi19:44
* freemangordon is wondering what next to include in cssu-thumb19:45
zeq_laptopfennec! ;)19:45
ivgalvezPython :D19:45
freemangordondon't say microb19:45
freemangordonivgalvez: what will be the benefit from having Python thumb-compiled?19:45
ivgalveztime to start python apps is extremely long plus memroy consumption19:46
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ivgalvezthere are a few widgets using python as well19:46
freemangordonbut it is not resident, ain't?19:46
ivgalvezif you have a widgets... yes I'm afraid19:46
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freemangordonaah, widgets. hmm, who the hell wants python widgets on his desktop?19:46
zeq_laptopnot sure how much difference it would make to python19:46
freemangordonivgalvez: I was asking for some core compunent19:47
ivgalvezwell it's not really critcal19:47
freemangordonthe one that everyone will benefit from being with reduced code size19:47
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freemangordonsome system library or so. bluetoothd?19:48
freemangordonor something like that19:48
zeq_laptopthat's a possiblity19:48
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freemangordonwell, I rephrase then. Which is the biggest memory hog (excluding browserd and things that are already in the repo) according to your knowledge?19:49
keriotracker, maybe?19:49
freemangordonaah, yes, libcurl319:50
freemangordonkerio: hmm, that is a good idea, let me check the code size19:50
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ivgalvezif you use batery-eye (very common I think) you will also see python running19:52
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freemangordonivgalvez: no way to install any python stuff in my status menu.19:53
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freemangordonhmm, openssl and libcurl3 are my favorites, though I have to wait for a newer libcurl3 in CSSU-T19:56
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zeq_laptopprobably worth looking a the difference in size with python19:57
freemangordonzeq_laptop: absolute difference?19:57
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freemangordonas I doubt it is all executable code19:58
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zeq_laptopobviously :)19:58
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zeq_laptopobjdump gives a full breakdown20:00
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DocScrutinizer51battery-eye been  notorious to kill battery ;)20:03
DocScrutinizer51IOW the eye is a hog20:03
freemangordonhmm, pulseaudio modules are about 1200 KiB20:03
freemangordonnot sure all of them are FOSS20:04
ivgalvezmine stays up to 4 days and 13 hours with Battery eye, I can live with that20:04
hiemanshusome should rebuild Maemo with linaro tool chain20:04
freemangordonhiemanshu: which gcc is that?20:04
hiemanshuthere is 4.6 and 4.7 too20:04
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ivgalvez4.7.1 is supposed to boost performance of Android on ARM20:04
hiemanshu4.6 does too20:05
freemangordonis it much better than 4.6.2?20:05
hiemanshuand its not android limited20:05
hiemanshuits boosts performance of all ARM related stuff20:05
freemangordonas that is what I am using for thumb thingie20:05
hiemanshuivgalvez: yes, but its not limited to android20:07
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ivgalvezof course20:07
ivgalvezUbuntu too20:07
freemangordonivgalvez: but it says the performance is boosted compared to google toolchain, I was asking if there is much of a difference compared to gcc 4.6.220:09
ivgalvezapparently the benefits to Ubuntu 12.10 are also important, anyhow dunno if that would be noticeable on the N90020:10
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: we should probably use linaro20:16
zeq_laptopthey do try extra hard to fix ARM issues20:17
freemangordonzeq_laptop: I am all for this, just tell me when to download the toolchain from :P20:17
hiemanshufreemangordon: google :P20:17
freemangordon(the one that runs in SB :P )20:17
zeq_laptopthere are instructions on the sb site to import new toolchains20:18
freemangordonhiemanshu: ^^^20:18
freemangordonyeah, but we need the ehole toolchain statically linked20:18
zeq_laptopI would be surprised if someone hasn't already done it20:18
hiemanshufreemangordon: well you'll have to do some manual stuff20:18
freemangordonhiemanshu: tell me about it, I compiled gcc 4.6.2 for SB ;)20:19
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zeq_laptopbuilding gcc without "--enable-shared" isn't a bit deal20:19
infobotzeq_laptop meant: building gcc without "--enable-shared" isn't a big deal20:20
freemangordonzeq_laptop: excluding that that option does not work20:20
zeq_laptopI should say with --disable-shared20:20
freemangordonat least for 4.6.220:20
zeq_laptopI've built a static toolchain recently when I was bootstrapping x32 on Gentoo20:20
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freemangordonzeq_laptop: does not work, I had to do some trickery, i.e. configure it with --enable-shared, and after that make -j4 LDFLAGS="-static -L/scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/lib/"20:24
freemangordonor make -j4 LDFLAGS="-all-static", can't remember20:24
zeq_laptopI think i built 4.6 and 4.7 ... maybe it was only  4.7 I built static20:25
freemangordonthat is the source from gcc mirrors, didn't try some debianized package20:25
ViltzuDoes anyone know what I should try when compiling allegro5?20:25
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Viltzu"Linking C shared library lib/"20:25
ViltzuAnd then error.20:25
ViltzuI'm talking about the error when I do make :)20:26
freemangordonand the error is?20:26
Viltzumake just doesn't give anyinformation of the error really.20:26
ViltzuNot even what the error exactly is20:26
ViltzuLinking C shared library lib/liballegro.so20:26
Viltzumake[2]: *** [lib/] Error 120:26
Viltzumake[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/allegro.dir/all] Error 220:26
Viltzumake: *** [all] Error 220:26
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ViltzuAnd I'm positive there really isn't anywhere else about errors20:27
zeq_laptopanother fennec stupidity20:27
freemangordonViltzu: no way there is no error from gcc20:28
zeq_laptopnsWindow.cpp:77:40: fatal error: QtSensors/QOrientationSensor20:28
zeq_laptopyet the CFLAGS contain:  -I/opt/qtm12/include/QtSensors20:28
freemangordonzeq_laptop: make it QOrientationSensor only, remove QtSensors/ prefix :P20:29
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zeq_laptopI was hoping to avoid patching20:29
Viltzufreemangordon, does it log somewhere or should it be printed on the screen when doing make? Because those 4 lines are all what it prints when I do make (Well, when it now tries to continue where it stopped. It does "Building C object" to 78% and then that)20:30
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freemangordonViltzu: check if your configure scripts are not invoked eith some "--silent" option20:30
* freemangordon is afk fro a while20:31
freemangordonzeq_laptop: you could try ti -I/opt/qtm12/include20:32
freemangordonand add that path to -dev pkgconfig20:32
Viltzuas far as I know there is not applied any silent options.20:33
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: that's even more hacky than patching it though I guess20:47
zeq_laptopespecially since the other qt headers aren't prefixed20:48
freemangordonzeq_laptop: is that source file maemo5 specific?20:48
zeq_laptopno, it's qt-mobility specific20:49
zeq_laptopwhich is probably only used on maemo5/620:49
freemangordonhmm, strange. BTW why you include stuff from /opt and not /usr/include/qt4?20:50
zeq_laptopthe opt stuff is from libqtm1220:50
zeq_laptopthat is where it gets installed20:50
freemangordonbut headers should be in /usr/...20:50
zeq_laptopthe locations are picked up though pkg-config20:50
zeq_laptopas they should be20:50
freemangordonI know, seems -dev package does stupd things, headers should not be optified AFAIK20:51
zeq_laptopThere's no rule that I'm aware of20:51
zeq_laptopcertainly not generally, maybe a maemo thing?20:51
zeq_laptopthe whole point of pkg-config was to allow packages to be installed in non-standard locations and still work20:52
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zeq_laptopit's just a mozilla bug.  probably only been used on maemo6/harmattan, and there the headers were in the right place20:55
infobotzeq_laptop meant: it's just a mozilla bug.  probably only been used on maemo6/harmattan, and there the headers were in the assumed place20:56
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ViltzuSo any ideas? I have not silented errors or anything.21:04
zeq_laptopViltzu: there must be a way of makeing the build output verbose21:04
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zeq_laptopsome packages you can use V=9921:05
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ViltzuI gave --debug=all to make and it says it is reaping winning child and also reaping losin child and such.21:26
ViltzuDoes that tell anything?21:26
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zeq_laptoptry make VERBOSE=ON21:32
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ViltzuI wonder. Maybe I should update gcc and g++ to 4.6 from 4.2?21:39
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zeq_laptopViltzu: did you try "make VERBOSE=ON" ?21:44
ViltzuNot yet.21:44
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ViltzuHow did I create symlink so that gcc would call gcc-4.621:47
Viltzuln something21:47
zeq_laptopViltzu: what are you trying to do? I suggest if you want to try gcc-4.6, you use the one we're using for thumb21:49
zeq_laptopbut first you really should try "make VERBOSE=ON", it should work to tell you what's wrong I think21:50
ViltzuI just mean that now if I do "gcc" it will use the 4.2 version. But nothing anymore. removed the old one and then ln /usr/bin/gcc-4.6 gcc21:52
ViltzuI will try that now.21:52
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Viltzu/usr/bin/ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots21:53
Viltzucollect2: ld returned 1 exit status21:53
Viltzuwait. Did I just braek it21:54
ViltzuBecause it says that also without VERBOSE=ON and it didn't before :p21:54
zeq_laptopyes, you've broken it :P21:57
zeq_laptopyou broke your scratchbox target21:58
ViltzuI wonder what I should do? ;P21:58
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ZogG_latopzeq_laptop: oh, i finally found my brother22:09
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zeq_laptopZogG_latop: where did you lose your "p"?22:23
ViltzuOkay back to 4.2 because symlinking doesn't work umm.22:24
zeq_laptopViltzu: scratchbox toolchains go in /scratchbox/compiler22:25
infobotzeq_laptop meant: Viltzu: scratchbox toolchains go in /scratchbox/compilers22:26
ViltzuOkay... Doesn't say anything what I should do. :>22:26
zeq_laptopI'm going to write a howto soon22:27
ViltzuBut I just now compile this thing again (yes, I tried to do with the 4.6 from the start and meh)22:27
ViltzuThis will take about an our.22:27
ViltzuI wonder why it takes so long. On N9 it doesn't.22:27
ViltzuMaybe memory is getting low (5MB free RAM when compiling) ?22:28
zeq_laptopoh, you're compiling native?22:28
ViltzuHmm... yes on N900.22:28
ViltzuCross-compiling seemed complicated when allegro needs all these different libraries erhm.22:28
ZogG_latopzeq_laptop: 1993 summer, late august, i remember her as i see her now in front of me ...22:29
ViltzuBut it would be nice to cross compile. This is taking forever to compile on N900 ;D22:29
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zeq_laptopViltzu: I strongly recommend you don't do that22:29
zeq_laptopnative I mean22:30
zeq_laptopwell for a start it's slow22:30
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ViltzuYes I have noticed.22:30
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zeq_laptopyou'll wear out your device, you probably don't have all the *-dev packages, lack of memory22:31
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zeq_laptopViltzu: scratchbox isn't hard to set up22:32
ViltzuOkay hmm22:33
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: fennec is linking...22:43
ViltzuThe problem was I didn't really know about this scratchbox thing :P22:44
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freemangordonViltzu: it is really easy, nokia has a VmWare image on SDK site with everything preinstalled22:47
freemangordon(not sure what the address was, but google is your friend)22:48
freemangordonzeq_laptop: still linking?22:48
zeq_laptopbuilding chrome22:48
freemangordonlibxul built?22:49
Viltzufound it.22:49
freemangordonzeq_laptop: gimme, gimme, gimme ...22:49
zeq_laptopexcept not a packagebuild22:49
freemangordonwhy is that?22:50
zeq_laptopbecause I could fix problems and type make in obj-build22:50
freemangordonzeq_laptop: I am sure you know it, but just in case: you can comment the unpacking step in debian/rules and build with -nc22:50
zeq_laptopbut the debian/rules wipes everything with "build"22:50
zeq_laptopexecpt the silly debain/rules for this package22:51
freemangordonbut it works, i've tried it yesterday22:51
infobotzeq_laptop meant: except the silly debain/rules for this package22:51
freemangordon(commenting tar -xz)22:51
zeq_laptopit did?22:51
zeq_laptopoh well never mind22:51
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freemangordonjust put # in front of it :P22:52
zeq_laptopwell, yes hacking it would work22:52
freemangordonyeah, lets see it working, I promise I will fix debian/rules if everything is ok otherwise22:53
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I can make the patches available to you22:53
freemangordonie, fennec does not put n900 on its knees22:53
zeq_laptopyou can build faster than I can22:53
freemangordonbut you have it already build, just hack debian/rules and rebuild with -nc22:54
freemangordonthat will be faster22:54
zeq_laptopah, good idea 8-)22:54
* freemangordon think if it is a good idea to upload that on gitorious, if fennec works ok22:56
zeq_laptopin cssu-thumb you mean?22:58
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peterbjornxdoes anyone here have experience with thr n900 fm tx23:01
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I don't know how long this will take...23:01
freemangordonno, cssu-thumb is the debian repo ;). And most of things there are branches of CSSU23:01
peterbjornxmine stopped working, no errors but no transmission either23:01
freemangordonI have an account on gitorious and can create projects in my repo there23:02
zeq_laptopah ok23:02
zeq_laptopif it works well, it could be quite popular23:02
freemangordonthat way it will be very easy to apply patches for whoever is interested (assuming he has a gitorious account)23:03
zeq_laptopapparently packaging fennec takes a while ;)23:04
freemangordonwell , if it does its job...23:04
zeq_laptopit's becaues it's using ARM compiled tools23:04
zeq_laptopah progressing23:05
freemangordonarm qemu on coreduo :(23:05
zeq_laptopemulated arm is a bit slower than native x86_64 :)23:05
freemangordonzeq_laptop: don't forget to maemo-optify once it is ready (if there is no optification in debian/rules)23:06
freemangordonthough I think there is23:06
zeq_laptopit's installed into /opt in the mozconfig23:07
ZogG_laptopfreemangordon: congrats, now i wait for harmattan CSSU =P23:09
chem|stWoody14619: what happened?23:09
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: oh you are here, i'm the one we talked about OBS i'm here too =P23:09
zeq_laptopmy power cable had fallen out23:10
Woody14619chem|st: What happened about what?  :)  So much going on lately, I'm not sure which thing you're talking about. :P23:11
freemangordonZogG_laptop: thanks. harm CSSU? but there is PR1.3 on the horizon :P23:11
chem|stWoody14619: CA23:11
Woody14619Uhmm.. CA was decided? I'm not sure what you're asking? :)23:11
Woody14619If you're asking why I didn't get a device?  Because I didn't apply.23:12
ZogG_laptopfreemangordon: i think in Nokia right now they went to ancient roots and wors is not round anymore so the horizont is the end of the world, good luck waiting for it =)23:12
trumeedoes N900 support hls video playback ?
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: you should re=phrase the question23:12
Woody14619I felt it was both a conflict of interest, and that others had more/better community support and development than I've made.23:12
chem|stWoody14619: were all councelors there? or was it estel and someone else again?23:13
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: why only you didn't get the device =)23:13
chem|stZogG_laptop: he din't apply!23:13
ZogG_laptopthat's what i'm saying23:13
Woody14619No, it was all councelors.... over a gruelying 4 hours meeting... :P23:13
ZogG_laptopwhy only him didn't apply =)23:13
trumeeThere seem to be iOS/android players coming up to play mythtv 0.25 streams. Wondering if there is any video player which can do that on N900.23:13
freemangordontrumee: did you try to open it from microb?23:14
Woody14619ZogG_laptop: I gave my reasons for not applying. :)23:14
trumeefreemangordon: what do you mean?23:14
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ZogG_laptopWoody14619: i think the reason was different23:15
Woody14619.oO(And while I may or may not want to share more on that, I will refrain from doing so, reguardless of proding...)23:15
trumeefreemangordon: i have mythtv 0.25 here, but dont know how to access hls stream23:15
freemangordontrumee: find such a stream and try to open it within microb23:15
trumeefreemangordon: ah, ok.23:15
Woody14619ZogG_laptop: you may think what you please, but I can tell you, that was my reasoning.23:16
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: if you was thinking like that you would apply anyway as you just wouldn;t get device, on other hand if you know that you'll get device for sure so you don't apply — something is wrong here23:16
freemangordonif it is supported i suspect mediaplayer will kick in23:16
freemangordontrumee: ^^^23:16
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: i actually complimenting you man =)23:17
trumeefreemangordon: , firefox on PC says loading. going to try on N90023:17
chem|stvi_: merlin1991 freemangordon I hope you do not abandone your n900s now...23:17
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Woody14619ZogG_laptop: Again, I found it to be a conflict of interest to be both an applicant and a judge, and therefore resolved that by not being an applicant.23:18
* Woody14619 shares chem|st's concerns... :)23:18
zeq_laptopfreemangordon:  fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch23:18
zeq_laptopmake: *** No rule to make target `binary-arch'.  Stop.23:18
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: that's my point and that's why i told you that i think you did it right23:18
* Woody14619 nods...23:18
ZogG_laptopzeq_laptop: i found my p23:18
zeq_laptopZogG_laptop: congrats! :)23:19
trumeefreemangordon: microb opens video player which return "unable to find media file" :(23:20
freemangordonzeq_laptop: WTF? do a simple dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -nc23:20
freemangordontrumee: I suppose your question got answered :P23:20
freemangordonactually it seems it is half supported :D23:21
trumeefreemangordon: FF doesnt play these on PC either (
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: trying again23:22
freemangordoni.e. microb recognises it as a media, but maybe there is no gstreamer element installed on your n900 who can handle it23:22
freemangordonzeq_laptop: full compilation?23:22
zeq_laptopno just the binary packaging23:23
freemangordonaah, ok23:23
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: typo in rules23:33
freemangordonnice :)23:34
zeq_laptopwrong obj-build directory name23:35
zeq_laptoptrying again23:35
Viltzu/usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_symlink_library lib/ lib/ lib/liballegro.so23:36
Viltzumake[2]: *** [lib/] Error 123:36
ViltzuWhen usin -23:36
Viltzumake[2]: Leaving directory `/home/user/MyDocs/allegro-5.0/build'23:36
ViltzuVERBOSE=ON it says that before the error23:37
ViltzuBut I'm downloading the scratchbox ready image thing.23:37
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: seems to be working this time: Linking .xpt files...23:46
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: WTF?
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freemangordonzeq_laptop: NFC, never seen such think23:59
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