IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-06-18

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chem|stMohammadAG: it does hurt! everytime someone hits a football god kills a kitten!00:31
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Venemo_N9who cares about football anyway?00:34
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: you happen to have a scriptie to mirror the repos?00:36
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: nope as they never setup rsync as requested 2.6 years ago00:38
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: but well could write one..00:38
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chem|stwant a mirror?00:38
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: I think I still have the script itself on my server00:38
DocScrutinizer05there's that stuff from pali, but...00:38
Venemo_N9so they're shutting down, as I hear00:39
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: found it in my ff history00:39
merlin1991apply the 2nd to the ubuntu tarball of apt-mirror00:39
DocScrutinizer05but sorry, what ubuntu tarball?00:40
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MohammadAGVenemo_N9: McDonalds and Calsberg's beer apparently00:41
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: I think this should do:
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, changelog and TODO, no manpage, no readme, no friggin nuttin00:45
chem|stmerlin1991: why not just provide a patched .deb?00:45
* DocScrutinizer05 is temped to type apt-mirror_0.4.8.orig.tar.gz --help00:45
merlin1991chem|st: because I have none?00:45
merlin1991all I have is the diff and list in my ff history and a patched script somewhere on my server :D00:46
DocScrutinizer05and some background what that stuff is meant to do, while I don't00:46
merlin1991apt-mirror is a perl script that mirrors an apt repo00:46
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: for apt-mirror cfg you have
merlin1991pali patched it to send the maemo specific headers00:47
DocScrutinizer05sudo mirror-a-repo-for-me00:47
DocScrutinizer05no, he didn't00:47
chem|stmerlin1991: erm isn't maemo.org00:48
DocScrutinizer05[jr@lagrange scripts]$ ./download.sh00:48
merlin1991chem|st: it mirros sdk tool nokia binaries and nokia ssu repos00:48
DocScrutinizer05--2012-06-17 23:15:31--
DocScrutinizer052012-06-17 23:15:31 FEHLER 403: Forbidden.00:48
DocScrutinizer05... :-/00:48
chem|stmerlin1991: will they be gone too?00:49
merlin1991possibly I can't know00:49
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: untar that tar, apply the patch and read the first 50 lines of it00:49
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DocScrutinizer05I did that on 3 or 4 of pali's tarball00:50
Estel_preparations for doomsday after latest Nokia's exploits, eh?00:50
DocScrutinizer05veeery enlightening00:50
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: do that for the apt-mirror from debian + patch from pastebin i posted00:50
merlin1991because that stuff actually works00:50
DocScrutinizer05see above, yeah00:51
chem|stmerlin1991: patch this patch apt-mirror?00:55
chem|stso I just install apt-mirror from repo and patch is as it is perl?!00:55
merlin1991that could work too00:56
merlin1991I only got the tarball because it does not apply cleanly to my distrib apt-mirror00:56
chem|stwell I mirror an then I'll try00:56
chem|stEstel_: yes00:56
merlin1991chem|st: for you could also use
* chem|st wonders were his /ignore is gone....00:57
chem|stmerlin1991:have you all or just fremantle?00:57
merlin1991just fremantle00:58
merlin1991but if you give me the proper deb and deb-src lines I can add the others aswell00:58
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chem|stjust replace fremantle with diablo and the others...00:58
chem|stfor extras it is diablo gregale chinook bora scirocco & mistral01:00
chem|stmerlin1991: ^^^01:00
Venemo_N9how old are those01:01
DocScrutinizer05in all that patches and tarball I fail to spot a single "maemo"01:01
Venemo_N9I'm wondering whether anyone's using them01:01
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: because it's a friggin generic mirror this apt repo tool01:01
chem|sthave a look at
merlin1991the patch adds nokia(tm) headers01:01
merlin1991and you supply it with the list of repos from the first pastebin to get the stuff01:02
DocScrutinizer05uhuh, suply like in?01:02
DocScrutinizer05you know, there's no manpage01:02
merlin1991drop them in a file and find the comman line parameter that is in the first few lines of the script01:02
merlin1991there is a friggin embedded helptext there01:02
DocScrutinizer05and I have no friggin clue how this stuff is meant to be used01:02
merlin1991everything from the beginning till =head1 CURRENT AUTHORS01:04
DocScrutinizer05in which file?01:04
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: you patch the apt-mirror file and download the OTHER then you edit the path in OTHER and start 'apt-mirror $PATH_TO_OTHER'01:04
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: and make path somewhere +60GB01:05
chem|stoh it is with sources... make it 120GB01:06
chem|stand with all versions.. are you guys crazy?01:06
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merlin1991extras devel + extras + cssu + cssu testing (including sources) is 109 gb01:06
DocScrutinizer05path like "set base_path             /var/spool/apt-mirror" ?01:06
chem|stwho needs that obsolete stuff?01:06
merlin1991sdk + tools + all ssu repos is 19gb01:06
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chem|st130GB even...01:07
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DocScrutinizer05ok, RIP mirror-idea01:07
chem|stmerlin1991: so you have everything but nokia?01:08
merlin1991chem|st: I have everything but pre fremantle stuff01:08
merlin1991and I have to save the sb rootstraps and packages01:08
chem|stmerlin1991: so why do I need to mirror it again?01:08
merlin1991I have nfc01:09
chem|stdo you have an rsync-mirror setup?01:09
merlin1991and the nokia stuff isn't public because (C)01:09
chem|stwould you mind or is this killing your traffic?01:09
DocScrutinizer05who cares?01:09
merlin1991chem|st: my traffic would be fine, only $nokia lawyer scares me slightly01:10
DocScrutinizer05my traffic doesn't matter, but my storage is waaay to low01:10
chem|stwhere there is no lawyer for maemo as there is no more staff in $maemo01:10
Venemo_N9what did the lawyer say?01:11
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: got plenty so  no worries01:11
chem|stVenemo_N9: he's drowned lately01:11
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DocScrutinizer05anybody without any prior or current Nokia device here? no? so what's the issue with all of us downloading Nokia(C) stuff?01:12
merlin1991you guys have no problem01:13
DocScrutinizer05I mean, if Nokia wouldn't want us to download it, they wouldn't offer it for download, no?01:13
merlin1991I on the other hand am distributing it01:13
DocScrutinizer05that's not what I asked for ;-)01:14
DocScrutinizer05(though it seems there are some private copies of nok stuff on my server which I accidentally haven't set -r)01:15
DocScrutinizer05of course I will fix thjat as soon as Nokia complains01:15
DocScrutinizer05for now I guess it's only been a prank somebody played on me, as I can't find any such stuff01:16
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Venemo_N9nah, good night guys01:16
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DocScrutinizer05but as mentioned before, only ~30GB free storage on that box01:16
* DocScrutinizer05 should get a phatter server01:17
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DocScrutinizer05a goddamn 130GB? incredible01:18
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: running...01:20
chem|stmerlin1991: my folder looks somehow weird01:20
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merlin1991chem|st: you gotta be a bit more specific ;)01:21
chem|sti know01:21
chem|stProceed indexes: [SSSSSSSSSSSSPsh: 1: cannot open No such file01:22
chem|stapt-mirror: can't open index in proceed_index_gz at /usr/bin/apt-mirror line 458.01:22
DocScrutinizer05same I got01:22
DocScrutinizer05see above01:22
chem|stI have no clue about perl...01:22
DocScrutinizer05though with pali's scripts01:22
merlin1991chem|st: and you applied the patch?01:22
chem|stsure, and only two lines got rejected as they were the same01:23
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DocScrutinizer05I think I spotted some magic in one of the scripts to extract ssl keys from somewhere01:29
DocScrutinizer05which would suggest this script menat to run *on n900*01:30
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: found it, missing @args in 21601:30
chem|stor some01:30
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DocScrutinizer05otoh last line of same script been > find /somewhere -name foobar -exec rm {} ;01:30
chem|stmerlin1991: 157.8GB01:30
DocScrutinizer05and that doesn't work with messybox as we all know01:31
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merlin1991chem|st: that includes what?01:33
chem|stmerlin1991: that includes the mirror.list you posted01:34
* merlin1991 wonders why he only has 19 gb01:35
chem|stcause you already got 130 from maemo...01:35
merlin1991ah yeah01:36
merlin1991because it has extras extras-testing and extras-devel01:36
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merlin1991I only copied the ssu sdk and tools repos01:36
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: what?01:37
merlin1991and to -devel + extras independent01:37
DocScrutinizer05at least testing might die unnoticed behind a hill01:37
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DocScrutinizer05AIUI there's hardly any relevant version in tetsing, no?01:38
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chem|stDocScrutinizer05: ehrm for about a year only testing holds relevant versions^^01:38
chem|stas noone pushed anyhting01:39
chem|sttill last week01:39
DocScrutinizer05I somehow thought that's -devel01:39
chem|stdevel is like killing my device if I upgrade from it01:39
merlin1991apt-get upgrade is a bad idea anyway xD01:40
DocScrutinizer05sure, but the versions in devel and testing usually should be same01:40
chem|st50% of my post-flashed-cssu_installed software is or was from testing01:40
DocScrutinizer05if they're not, then I'd rather forget about testing than devel01:41
chem|stgot like 30 upgrades if a set devel active in ham01:41
DocScrutinizer05well, anyway seems there's plenty of room for symlinks, hardlinks, and bzip201:41
DocScrutinizer05there's OTOH plenty of arguments why a decent server should have at least 1TB storage ;-D01:43
DocScrutinizer05well, this silly thing I got been planned as a bouncer, nuttin else01:44
DocScrutinizer05for that the 50GB are plenty01:44
DocScrutinizer05I again start to consider getting a decent one for hosting a few maemo related things01:45
chem|stI download it and will shove it up to uni-ftp if I get permission, at least for extras*01:45
DocScrutinizer05good plan01:45
chem|stthe admin just didn't want to download 400GB if only 10GB upload will happen ever01:46
DocScrutinizer05the proprietary crap might already fit on those 30GB free01:46
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: 19GB prop.01:46
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: the proprietary crap is 16 gb01:46
merlin1991chem|st: I checked again it's actually only 1601:46
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: hetzner?01:47
DocScrutinizer05your box01:48
chem|stno I got no hetzner server01:48
chem|stone is amazon the other two are selfhosted01:49
DocScrutinizer05SELFhosted? dang, with FDDI backbone?01:49
chem|stmisleading sry01:50
chem|sthosted but my own hardware01:50
chem|stone is down atm01:50
chem|stone is mining bitcoins 24/701:50
chem|stI love powerflat!01:51
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: so could you share the fixed script, so eventually I could run it when I got a server with more sotrage?01:55
DocScrutinizer05or strip down the list to exclude the fat stuff01:55
jacekowskii have a mirror01:56
jacekowskifor maemo repo01:56
DocScrutinizer05oooh, and anyody got an idea how to mirror wiki?01:56
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: you can download whole DB01:56
jacekowskithat wiki01:57
merlin1991nfc how to mirror wiki properly01:57
merlin1991jacekowski: how?01:57
jacekowskiwget -r?01:57
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: it's getting a popular game now to get more mirrors01:57
jacekowskimerlin1991: normal wikipedia publishes their db dumps daily01:57
merlin1991gotta contact nemain then :/01:57
DocScrutinizer05wget is no brilliant idea01:58
DocScrutinizer05you get all special pages, which adds up to a *100 explosion01:58
jacekowskiiirc it's around 1TB in total01:59
jacekowskibut plain text articles are under 10G compressed02:00
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DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: the
DocScrutinizer05damn that shouldn't be more than 10GB, maybe 2002:10
DocScrutinizer05hmm, with all edit history it might be some GB actually02:11
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DocScrutinizer05  plus should convert to a wget script easily02:14
DocScrutinizer05and shouldn't be that much actually02:15
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: i was talking about wikipedia.org02:16
jacekowskican we ask X-Fade for db dumps?02:16
DocScrutinizer05asking is for free ;-D02:17
DocScrutinizer05btw the above linked two pages don't contain the /user:* pages it seems02:18
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: patch brakes with adding @args in line 5402:18
chem|stmy system is now load 31 31 28... ram 16GB used swap 8GB used... is it need be wget?02:19
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jacekowskiwget shouldn't be using that much02:20
jacekowskiwhat are you running exactly02:20
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chem|st90% wget in ram02:20
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: does this script start a new background shell for each wget? ;-)02:20
DocScrutinizer05(would probably run out of TCP ports eventually)02:21
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chem|stno but it is 3 wgets with --no-cache...02:22
DocScrutinizer05what's --no-cache?02:23
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DocScrutinizer05umm, that's server side02:23
DocScrutinizer05while your server is the client on that wget02:24
DocScrutinizer05a nd I wonder if that's actually needed (no-cache)02:24
chem|stcannot write the line as I have no more response02:25
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DocScrutinizer05?? o.O02:25
chem|st is rendered useless for 22h as it writes with 2MB/s to disk02:25
chem|stwhy? I have no clue02:26
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chem|stno proper 4core 16GB ram 4TB-hdd02:28
chem|stok retry.... cannot be it can it!02:31
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chem|stjust exited anything writing or reading from that disk *fingers-crossed*02:32
DocScrutinizer05check smart02:32
DocScrutinizer05and dmesg02:32
jacekowskitweak vfs02:33
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: how exactly?02:34
jacekowskithat's what i've got02:35
jacekowski             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached02:35
jacekowskiMem:         24164      23936        227          0          0      1889702:35
jacekowski-/+ buffers/cache:       5039      1912502:35
DocScrutinizer05this laptop/distri killing me with those random 10..100s lags on starting any app, particularly browser02:35
jacekowskiget ssd02:36
jacekowskiand windows02:36
jacekowskii never thought my laptop can start so fast untill i bought an ssd02:36
jacekowskia ssd*02:36
chem|stjacekowski: increase or decrease?02:37
DocScrutinizer05well, I think there's not even any read from HDD involved when those lags occur02:37
jacekowskichem|st: some are increased some are decreased02:37
chem|stjacekowski: I mean vfs02:37
chem|sti niced it for now... 40% ram usage02:37
jacekowskilook at my paste02:38
DocScrutinizer05oooh you run that as root maybe?02:38
jacekowskifirst 4 are the important ones02:38
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: what?02:38
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ^^^02:38
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: apt-mirror02:38
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: did not want to run as user^^02:39
DocScrutinizer05there's no excuse for a proper 4core box writing to a 4TB drive @ 2MB/s02:39
jacekowskii that's pretty fast02:40
jacekowski15krpm drive can deliver 1M/s for fully random writes02:40
jacekowskianyways, i've got my own apt-mirror setup02:41
jacekowskiif anybody is interested02:41
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DocScrutinizer05definitely yes02:41
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DocScrutinizer05err, I thought about the setup, not the mirror :-D02:43
jacekowskithat's my setup file02:44
jacekowskiapt-mirror /home/maemo/mirror.list02:44
jacekowskithat's all it takes to run it02:44
SpeedEviljacekowski: you're assuming 1 seek per rev02:44
SpeedEviljacekowski: As I understad it, ost drives can't quite do that.02:44
SpeedEvilActually - no drives can do that - it's physically impossible.02:45
jacekowskiwell, drives can seek pretty fast02:45
jacekowskiand home drives can deliver around 80 iops02:45
DocScrutinizer05wait what? you're talking about writing one random block ber rotation?02:45
jacekowski15k drives can deliver over 2 of that02:45
SpeedEviljacekowski: Sure.02:45
jacekowskiNCQ helps a bit as well02:45
SpeedEviljacekowski: but that's not 250iops/s02:46
SpeedEvilAnd reordering helps a little, yes.02:46
DocScrutinizer05dang, on writing new data out of cache, reordering should help quite a lot02:47
chem|stjacekowski: something else was hogging it so it was 'random writes'02:47
jacekowskichem|st: tweaking vfs will help a lot02:47
jacekowskichem|st: so it waits bit more to write it02:47
jacekowskiso it can order it a lot better02:48
DocScrutinizer05with 16GB used up for buffers I'd think it already waits long enough02:48
chem|stso 100 isnt a good idea?02:48
jacekowskii'm talking about all those numbers02:49
jacekowskinot only cache pressure02:49
jacekowskidirty_background_ratio dirty_expire_centisecs dirty_ratio dirty_writeback_centisecs02:50
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DocScrutinizer05[18.06.2012 01:19:03] <chem|st> my system is now load 31 31 28... ram 16GB used swap 8GB used... is it need be wget?02:50
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jacekowskithose 4 increased will help a lot02:50
DocScrutinizer05help a lot on what exactly?02:50
jacekowskiwith write performance on random writes02:50
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jacekowskihowever it will use more ram at the same time02:50
DocScrutinizer05see last quote02:51
DocScrutinizer05ram 16GB used02:51
chem|stjacekowski: ram is gone by then...02:51
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DocScrutinizer05[18.06.2012 01:48:20] <DocScrutinizer05> with 16GB used up for buffers I'd think it already waits long enough02:51
jacekowskididn't notice the swap part02:51
chem|statm it is 8GB ram and 200MB swap... without nice02:52
DocScrutinizer05au contraire I think it swaps out too aggressive02:52
chem|stbut I think it will take only a few more minutes^^02:52
chem|stjust a bit longer than before...02:52
chem|st9GB ram02:53
DocScrutinizer05used by?02:53
DocScrutinizer05buffers, cache...?02:53
chem|st50% by wget so7.x GB02:53
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, wget can't use 50% of 9GB02:54
chem|st50%of 16GB02:54
chem|st55% of 16GB02:54
DocScrutinizer05unless you invoke one wget instance to download one or several files summing up to >>9GB02:55
chem|stseems like that is what it is doing02:55
chem|stwget per letter but max 3 at a time^^02:56
chem|st61% by 2 of those 3 wgets02:56
DocScrutinizer05well, 3 wgets then02:56
chem|stper letter in /pool02:56
DocScrutinizer05does PID change?02:56
DocScrutinizer05this job is a brainfsck02:57
chem|stand the lowset PID is the smallest in RAM02:57
DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't download 1M files with 150GB total size via one wget process02:58
DocScrutinizer05now I seem to see what was the *intention* of --no-cache02:59
DocScrutinizer05just --no-cache doesn't do what the intention been02:59
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DocScrutinizer05my 2 cent: wget mallocs new RAM for each chunk of data downloaded, and tries to write in background. It however seems to never reuse the allocated RAM03:02
DocScrutinizer05and never flushes03:02
DocScrutinizer05so if your download is faster than your disk write, you run into trouble03:02
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DocScrutinizer05unless you force flushing every now and then, by invoking a new instance of wget for the next file03:04
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: does wget diagnostic output on terminal?03:06
DocScrutinizer05if yes, a ^S might help03:06
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DocScrutinizer05or you throttle your NIC somehow03:08
DocScrutinizer05or you refactor the job, so each file download has to finish writing to disk before next one gets started - I.E. invoke a new instance of wget for each file03:09
chem|stnthread to 2 and it writes with 8MB/s03:10
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chem|stok 5-8MB/s03:10
chem|stthe apt-mirror list has a nthreads of 2003:11
chem|st68MB ram03:11
chem|stwit 2 instead of 2003:12
DocScrutinizer05you lost me03:12
chem|stmirror.list has a value of 20 threads I reduced it to 203:12
chem|stit will take ages... but it wont kill the machine03:13
DocScrutinizer05aaah there's nthreads03:13
DocScrutinizer05whatever that does03:13
chem|stit distributes the indexing into threads, seems like stacking03:14
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DocScrutinizer05nfc what's indexing here03:15
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DocScrutinizer05I thought the problem is with wget03:16
DocScrutinizer05eating all the RAM03:16
chem|stt is what apt-mirror is doing with it03:16
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DocScrutinizer05didn't you say wget using 50%...100% of RAM, and wget PID never changes?03:18
DocScrutinizer05then that's your problem03:18
chem|stwell that too03:18
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chem|stI need to get some rest03:19
DocScrutinizer05there's one (or 3) wget instances running from a pipe with list of files to download, and it stuffs all the download to malloc'd RAM03:19
DocScrutinizer05and hands that RAM to write()03:20
DocScrutinizer05now your aggressive swappiness or whatever kicks in and maybe swaps out wget to make space for disk buffers/cache03:21
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DocScrutinizer05which isn't exactly helping for thruput to HDD of the downloaded stuff in wget's memory03:21
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DocScrutinizer05the job shouldn't run one wget instance form a command pipe but rather invoke a new wget instance for each file03:22
DocScrutinizer05since then wget would quit only after flushing all buffers to write to disk, and thus the download speed gets throttled naturally03:23
DocScrutinizer05to match the max HDD write speed03:24
DocScrutinizer05this job is optimized for NIC thruput, assuming there can't ever be a bottleneck on the write-to-storage side03:24
DocScrutinizer05when your download speed is higher than your write speed on HDD, it will fail03:25
DocScrutinizer05which isn't exactly helping for thruput to HDD of the downloaded stuff in wget's memoryasically a flaw in wget itself03:25
DocScrutinizer05basically a flaw in wegt itself03:26
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LaoLang_coolHow to access the file system of PC from n900? Can it be accessed by usb?08:45
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dm8tbruse g_usb (IIRC that's SDK mode) and some network file access protocol08:46
dm8tbre.g. samba or nfs or ftp or ...08:46
freemangordondm8tbr: hmm, g_ether?08:48
dm8tbryeah, that one, still waking up08:48
LaoLang_cooloh, looks like too complicated to me, give up, thank you...08:50
freemangordonLaoLang_cool: just install Qt mobile hotspot and you're ready to go08:51
LaoLang_coolfreemangordon, I don't understand, if I install  Qt mobile hotspot, then I can access my windows fat32 file system in N900?08:55
freemangordonLaoLang_cool: what Qt mobile hotspot will give you is an easy way to establish USB connection between your n900 and your windows PC. Once established you can use your fravourite way to browse your PC from your n900. samba for example08:58
LaoLang_coolfreemangordon, oh, thank you very much. Still complicated to me, I have no knowledge about samba, I thought I can access pc file system by something like mount -t vfat /dev/sd1 /mnt/fat after the usb got connected between pc and n900...09:01
freemangordonno way09:02
LaoLang_coolfreemangordon, thanks, will learn it when I have time :)09:06
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fructHello all! Who can get help about app manager on n900?09:40
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_PanzerSajtfruct, what is your problem?09:41
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.09:41
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_PanzerSajtfreemangordon, hy :)09:44
fructin first launch it load list applications, after that say "noting repositoryes"09:45
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fructif open repo list, I got same09:52
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Sc0rpiuswell, too bad we don't speak romanian10:05
Sc0rpiusotherwise we could help you10:05
Sc0rpiusbecause I don't understand a thing you're saying.10:06
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fructmy basic language is russian10:08
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brikif you put just a tiny bit of effort in, that makes perfect sense10:15
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Sc0rpiusthen please translate10:17
brikhe's saying he gets the message "no repositories" when launching the app manager10:18
brikfruct: can you add a new repository?10:19
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iluminator105n900 player does not play files in order although all the files have number in front of it10:26
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iluminator105player does not sort correctly10:29
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DocScrutinizer05iluminator105: seems it works when you add whole album, it doesn't work when you add from "songs"10:31
DocScrutinizer05unless you add one song at a time10:32
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iluminator105hmm...its a whole folder full of mp3 in order but....but with repeating number like 01 01 01 0110:33
iluminator105thats strange maybe let me if windows can order it ....10:35
iluminator105maybe there is no order,10:35
iluminator105bbl thanks DocScrutinizer10:35
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JaffaMorning, all12:51
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chem|stJaffa: morning13:15
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ping13:17
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MohammadAGJust read the being orphaned thread13:22
MohammadAGFrom a user's point of view, why stick to Maemo/MeeGo13:23
JaffaI just saw that, now going to be on MWKN's front-page13:23
MohammadAGA user, not a hacker13:23
merlin1991yes 100% doomsday talk13:23
JaffaThe next platform I think I'm going to be the harbinger of death for is BB1013:23
MohammadAGJaffa: You forgot MT Toggles in the last mwkn ;p13:23
JaffaMohammadAG: I did. Latest thread URL?13:23
MohammadAGWhile you're at there's that iOS 6 like plugin too :P13:23
MohammadAG and
MohammadAGJaffa: Same, wanted to attend a jam event but it's too expensive13:25
MohammadAG$900 for a round trip to Dubai which is the closest event13:26
merlin1991jam event what for?13:26
merlin1991ah wait13:26
MohammadAG300 to Berlin but I need a visa which takes time, and the tickets are sold out13:26
* merlin1991 read 13:26
MohammadAGIn the meantime, I'll be wiping a lot of data off my HDD to make space for OS X13:27
MohammadAGWonder if scratch box works on os x13:29
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JaffaMohammadAG: No, it doesn't. Can run in a nice little VM, tho'13:29
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MohammadAGJaffa: Hmm, I need a 1TB drive13:29
MohammadAGWonder how much of a hassle moving recovery partitions is13:30
MohammadAGFucking tethered jailbreak13:30
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merlin1991hm, who's that: ?13:33
MohammadAGArgh I have no browser13:34
MohammadAGmerlin1991: Username?13:34
Jaffamerlin1991: Kate Alhoha13:35
merlin1991Jaffa: rings no bell13:35
Jaffamerlin1991: Big important developer in Maemo13:35
merlin1991sounds legit :)13:35
JaffaAlhola, sorry -
Jaffamerlin1991: She's been working on Maemo since the very beginning: is from 2005, for example13:37
* SpeedEvil tries to remember 2005.13:39
X-FadeKate is working for Developer Nokia, budgets got moved there when MeeGo Devices etc stopped to exist.13:39
* SpeedEvil thinks of stone pillars with chimps in the background.13:39
merlin1991hey there X-Fade :)13:39
jacekowskiX-Fade: there was a question asked yesterday13:40
jacekowskiX-Fade: maemo wiki db dumps13:40
X-Fadejacekowski: Yes?13:41
merlin1991X-Fade: the question was if / how we can obtain them in case of no more maemo.org13:42
X-FadeI am not sure if Special:Export works?13:43
merlin1991X-Fade: it does one page at a time13:45
merlin1991not exactly convenient to mirror the whole thing13:45
merlin1991wait I stand corrected, it also takes a list of pages13:46
merlin1991still not exactly convenient :)13:46
X-Fademerlin1991: Well it gives you a way to export things now.13:47
X-FadeI'm trying to get a more clear picture as to what is going to happen with the server infra etc.13:47
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X-FadeOf course I can take backups of the databases.13:48
X-FadeBut I'd rather not offer for public download a database with all kinds of personal info.13:48
merlin1991X-Fade: I suppose you could do a dump of pages only?13:49
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X-FadeSo if there will be an alternative site setup, moving that database over is not a problem. But I'd like to be careful with private data.13:49
merlin1991excluding all the user and other private data?13:49
jacekowskiX-Fade: any chance of getting them13:52
jacekowskiX-Fade: for mirrors and stuff13:52
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DocScrutinizer51merlin1991: we had exactly same request to backup wiki on openmoko recently. User lindi did it with some script and w/o help from sysadmin on the wiki server15:54
merlin1991DocScrutinizer51: sure, but I'd prefer the sysadmin to help, saves the machine traffic and myself time15:55
DocScrutinizer51merlin1991: checking #openmoko-cdevel chanlog might yield some hits15:55
DocScrutinizer51sure thing15:55
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: for some reason it runs now without huge load...16:03
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, pong?18:56
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Website's back, so was wondering if you could help fill in the last few entries18:57
GeneralAntillesJaffa, on it.18:57
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Ta18:58
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: I've been doing a few while at work18:58
JaffaGeneralAntilles: n fact, I think only one's left18:58
psychologeJaffa, hello18:59
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Jaffapsychologe: o/19:01
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* DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders if the official character defines the community (and thus it will implode), or if the community generates some sense of official thing in its own (in which case it will survive Nokia teardown)19:08
GeneralAntillesJaffa, should be proofed and ready to go.19:09
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DocScrutinizer51Lo gan19:09
GeneralAntillesHey, DocScrutinizer51.19:10
DocScrutinizer51lo Jaffa19:10
DocScrutinizer51cig break19:10
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Ta19:13
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Published. Second article on the front page is a little light, but it's breaking news ;-)19:15
zeqDocScrutinizer: tbh nokia's behaviour has got me more involved with the community, hopefully I'm not boarding a sinking ship!19:17
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_freemangordonzeq: did you succeed with setting up -thumb target in SB?19:22
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zeqyes I did :)19:22
zeqtrying to build fennec 14 beta7 now19:23
freemangordon... and when you're going to writh the article in wiki :P19:23
zeqIt won't be this evening, but I'll get it a go :)19:23
freemangordongreat, thenks19:24
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zeqfreemangordon: I'm not sure whether to enable meegotouch in the fennec build, I'm guessing not19:25
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zeqI'm building the qt version19:25
freemangordonzeq: don't, noone knows how it will work on n900. And I am not sure libs are in place19:26
zeqit's been heavily optimized compared to the gtk version19:26
zeqthat's what I thought19:26
freemangordonpure Qt will be ok AIUI19:27
zeqdoes the meego touch framework work at all on fremantle?19:28
freemangordonbut even if it works, who cares, hildon is ok19:28
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zeqfreemangordon: It's built okay with "toolchain-default" for "--with-thumb", "--with-thumb-interwork", "--with-fpu".  With thumb*=yes, it currently fails at elf-hack. I could use --disable-elf-hack, or try toggling LDFLAGS...20:05
zeqWhat is the toolchain-default fpu option?20:06
zeqshould I try =neon?20:06
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zeqfreemangordon: one more question, should the thumb package be named/versioned differently?20:12
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DocScrutinizer51zeq: there are ships that sink, and others that get converted to houseboats or museums when they don't sail the 7 seas anymore20:48
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DocScrutinizer51I'm hoping for the pretty comfortable houseboat variant20:48
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freemangordonzeq: -neon would not work without -funsafe-math (or whetever was the option to turn vectoriser on)20:54
freemangordonzeq: default FPU option is vfp20:55
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freemangordonzeq: you should not enable "--with-thumb-interwork", it is not needed and produces slower and larger code21:00
freemangordon-mthumb is all you need21:00
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zeqfreemangordon: mozilla/fennec has builtin support for NEON if enabled via "--with-fpu=neon"21:19
freemangordonaah, great, enable it then :D21:20
zeqstarting again without interwork21:20
freemangordondid you build it succesfully?21:20
zeqalso built-in thumb support21:20
zeqit had nearly finished :)21:21
zeqwhat about the package name/version?21:22
freemangordonNFC, but it should reflect the harm version21:22
zeqI'm just using the upstream version, just wondered if the thumb version should somehow be identified as such21:24
freemangordonaaah, yeah21:24
freemangordonadd -thumb0 athe the end of the package name in changelog21:24
zeqright, okay ...21:25
freemangordonand add Depends: ..., kernel-feature-errata-430973-workaround in control for the binary .deb21:25
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freemangordonzeq: ^^^21:25
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zeq"fennec-thumb0", or after the version?21:27
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freemangordongimme the whole name ib the changelog21:27
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zeqfennec (14.0b7) unstable; urgency=low21:28
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freemangordonfennec (14.0b7+0m5-thumb0) unstable; urgency=low21:29
freemangordonmerlin1991: agree? ^^^21:29
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* freemangordon asks merlin1991 as he is a mighty maintainer after all, not an ordinary monkey like freemangordon is :P21:30
merlin1991why the 0m5, that's just nokias fancy way of saying it's a maemo package :D21:31
freemangordonbecause it is for maemo521:31
freemangordonbut AFAIK we're not allowed to use it, so m521:31
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merlin1991well in that case it should be someversion-maemx-thumbx21:32
infobotmerlin1991 meant: well in that case it should be someversion-maemox-thumbx21:32
freemangordonmerlin1991: we're not allowed to use maemo in package names, check on the wiki21:32
merlin1991freemangordon: not package name, verison number21:33
freemangordonit is the same21:33
merlin1991oh nope21:33
freemangordonwe're no allowed to use maemo in version string21:33
merlin1991there's a huge difference21:33
merlin1991and we are even supposed to21:33
merlin1991lemem find the entry21:33
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freemangordonmerlin1991: seems you're correct21:34
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merlin1991and a few lines above is the no to maemo in the package name :)21:35
merlin1991someversion-maemoR-thumbR where R stands for an int revision21:35
freemangordonfennec (14.0b7maemo0-thumb0) unstable; urgency=low21:35
merlin1991(starting with 0)21:35
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freemangordonmerlin1991: according to wiki there should be no "-" before maemo21:36
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merlin1991freemangordon: that - is just for style21:37
merlin1991makes no difference21:37
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freemangordonzeq: BTW is fenec buildable with the default SB toolchain?21:37
freemangordonzeq: you'd better listen to merlin1991 when it comes to packaging :D21:37
merlin1991though you are right, according to wiki it should be someversionmaemoR-thumbR21:37
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freemangordonmerlin1991: any news from MohammadAG re new update that should happen ASAP21:38
zeqstart again? :)21:38
zeqit's buildable, but slow21:39
freemangordonzeq: why not, after all your CPU will sit idling otherwise :P21:39
zeqI mean with the default toolchain21:39
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zeqNEON should help a lot21:40
freemangordoni mean why you want to build it with gcc 4.6.2, only for thumb?21:40
freemangordonor it is not buildable with 4.2.121:40
freemangordonbut gcc 4.2.1 supports neon21:41
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freemangordon(it supports thumb too, but that's another story)21:41
zeqI'm hoping/expecting the JIT to work a lot better with a recent toolchain21:42
zeqwith the old toolchain, it's been pretty unusable since v821:43
zeqwe'll see21:43
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freemangordonhmm, if they don't support ThumbEE, there should not be much of a difference21:43
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zeqI'm not sure if it doesn't.  I haven't checked.21:43
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zeqBut these complication options put it very similar to the Android build21:44
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freemangordonzeq ThumbEE is a mistery, I suspect it is implemented21:45
zeqwhich AFAIK works well21:45
freemangordoneven in android21:45
freemangordon*it is NOT21:45
freemangordonnah, the word fitted perfectly well :D21:45
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TofeHi !21:46
freemangordonBTW you can use as a sceleton21:48
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piggz_does anyone know how to read the security code from a locked N9? or how to reset it without wiping?22:31
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zeqmerlin1991: the gcc-4.6 compiler has this bug:
freemangordonzeq: use -fno-strict-volatile-bitfields22:44
zeqalready added it to CFLAGS22:45
zeqI put CFLAGS="${CFLAGS} ..." in mozconfig. Is there a preferred form and/or place to put extra CFLAGS?22:47
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FIQis the maximun speed that N900 can achieve down 384Kbit/s in 3G?23:08
freemangordonzeq: there should be CFLAGS in debian/rules23:08
SpeedEvilFIQ:  No, I've had considerably more.23:09
SpeedEvilIIRC 1.5M23:09
SpeedEvilI forget though23:09
FIQbecause I wonder if my operator is (wrongly) throttling me (I should have more, and with tests w/others with same operator, they get more), as my current data plan suggest higher speeds (I'm fully aware that it's a theoretical max, but I seem to hit 384Kbit/s, and never more than that, but not often less)23:09
FIQand N900 suggests that I'm on 3.5G, but I still cannot get more23:10
FIQInteresting enough, I get more *up* than down23:10
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MrPinguestel_, ping23:21
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zeqfreemangordon: it's been a *very* long time since I last did any Debian packaging.23:25
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Estel_MrPingu,  pong23:42
ShadowJKI routinely do about 8Mbit/s on N900 3g hspa23:45
Estel_ShadowJK,  have You tried testing hostmode max speed?23:46
Estel_reportedly, it's only ~32 Mbit/s max23:46
Estel_no idea why23:46
Estel_(as client, real high speed is no problem)23:47
ShadowJKI have not23:48
SpeedEvilEstel_: I would at this point add test results, but it'd mean getting out of bed.23:49
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Estel_SpeedEvil,  :)23:53
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