IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-06-06

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dreamer	how can I update the library of the default mediaplayer? I just added my new card	00:20
kerio	fasta: it should already be supported	00:21
kerio	i mean, it would be weird if it wasn't, my wifi network is wpa2/aes only, and it works	00:21
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fasta	kerio: also in the GUI?	00:22
kerio	yeah, sure	00:22
fasta	kerio: it certainly isn't in my version. Since when?	00:22
fasta	kerio: It's not in the default Nokia release.	00:23
fasta	kerio: is there some wiki page?	00:23
* kerio just tapped on his wifi network		00:23
kerio	i'm on PR1.2 fwiw	00:23
kerio	which is actually a bit old	00:23
fasta	kerio: are you sure your network is not just using fallback?	00:23
fasta	kerio: i.e. did you explicitly configure or see the string wpa2 anywhere on your phone?	00:24
fasta	kerio: I think I also have PR1.2.	00:24
fasta	So, not wpa, but wpa2.	00:25
kerio	pretty sure, yeah	00:25
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DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: YT?	00:29
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DocScrutinizer51	not really	00:31
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Woody14619	fasta: I use wpa2 at home, no fall-back, and have since at least PR1.2. There are tons of things that can bork wpa2 though. Search TMO forums for wpa2 setup problems and you'll find manythreads, almost all with a solution.	01:09
fasta	Woody14619: and it is shown in the GUI?	01:09
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Woody14619	fasta: yes and no. There's a bug that can cause it to not show up depending on how you add the network. If you add it the normal way (hit top bar, network, and select it) then it shows up fine. If you try to use settings, internet connections, add, it doesn't.	01:10
Woody14619	fasta: I think that particular bug was fixed in PR1.3, but I'm not sure of it, as I tend to use the former method, not the later.	01:11
fasta	Is there also some way to add mediaformats to play?	01:11
Woody14619	media formats?	01:11
fasta	I.e. those that come from more modern phones like the Samsung Galaxy S2?	01:11
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fasta	I have no idea, what it is, quite likely it's playable with vlc on a desktop system.	01:12
Woody14619	Still not sure what you mean... but... mplayer and vlc are available on N900.	01:12
Woody14619	But if a particular phone is using some proprietary codec, good odds unless you're on that particular device it won't work.	01:13
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fasta	Woody14619: it's just that it doesn't play with the built-in media player.	01:27
fasta	Woody14619: so, perhaps vlc on the phone just plays it. vlc on the desktop surely plays it.	01:27
fasta	The thing which is great about this channel is that the signal to noise level is relatively high (if you don't count me ;) ) .	01:28
Woody14619	fasta: vlc has a lot of extra codecs in it, and is activly still developed. media player has a nice base set.	01:28
fasta	Woody14619: is there some way to tell the media player to take a hike and to let vlc take over?	01:28
Woody14619	fasta: there are app reassigners, not sure what the name of the package is though. So yes. But vlc is much heavier then media player, and not quite as stable.	01:30
Woody14619	K, am off... have to get out of here. :) Good luck fasta	01:30
fasta	Woody14619: thanks anyway. I will lookin to the whole wpa2 thing.	01:31
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nox-	ffplay applehttp+http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/NTV-Public-IPS.m3u8 - venus transit, 720	02:09
nox-	p	02:09
nox-	(ot :)	02:09
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Pali	nox-, thanks for non flash link!	02:24
nox-	np	02:25
nox-	:)	02:25
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mtnman	hello	03:59
mtnman	i connected to my n900 with "ssh -X hostname" and did "startx" but the command is not found. is there a way to make this work?	04:00
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SpeedEvil	you're trying to do what?	04:01
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mtnman	i am trying to run X applications on the n900 and display on a separate machine	04:42
SpeedEvil	you don't generally want to run startx then - that will start an X server, which won't work at all remotely.	04:46
SpeedEvil	Simply running an X application should forward over the X link	04:46
SpeedEvil	the ssh link	04:46
mtnman	good point	04:48
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Estel^	mtnman, You may want to read:	04:49
Estel^	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81408	04:49
Estel^	it is about different thing, but problems with X forwarding are mentioned there	04:49
mtnman	thank you i will read it. thanks.	04:49
Estel^	SpeedEvil, what kind of X applications on N900 are suited to run over remote X?	04:50
Estel^	isn't it broken?	04:50
SpeedEvil	many don't work	04:50
Estel^	do we know cause?	04:50
SpeedEvil	They require local shared memory	04:50
Estel^	and proper way to fix it would be?...	04:51
Hurrian	mount /dev/shm ?	04:51
SpeedEvil	Rewrite the app to not require local shared memory	04:51
Estel^	(.e. tweaking some configs, Or recompiling something, or RE some closed bit in Maemo...)	04:51
Estel^	Hurrian, on N900's side? and why it won't work?:P	04:51
Estel^	(won't work - assumption based on common opinion that it won't work without rewriting)	04:52
Hurrian	hmm, tmpfs is already mounted on /dev/shm	04:52
Estel^	yep	04:52
SpeedEvil	tmpfs is irrelevant	04:52
Hurrian	perhaps we should make it bigger?	04:52
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Hurrian	it's only 64M	04:52
SpeedEvil	It requires shared memory access with th evideo buffer	04:52
SpeedEvil	which is on another computer	04:53
Hurrian	ah	04:53
SpeedEvil	which will be ... trick	04:53
SpeedEvil	y	04:53
Estel^	SpeedEvil, why is it problem on N900, and isn't in generic? linuxbox	04:53
SpeedEvil	It is.	04:53
SpeedEvil	Not all stuff works remotely.	04:53
SpeedEvil	normally	04:53
Estel^	understood.	04:53
SpeedEvil	More stuff is designed to fallback gracefully	04:53
Estel^	SpeedEvil, the link I mentioned is a WIP to make N900 connected with Raspberry Pi via USB networking, into using Pi's HDMI-out	04:54
Estel^	it already works for easy debian...	04:54
Estel^	forfwarding whole thing to different video output... (easy debian processed on N900)	04:54
Estel^	but, still can't make it work properly for Maemo itself	04:55
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Hurrian	Estel^, easy-debian uses xephyr	04:55
Estel^	what would be, in easy steps a way to forward out little Maemo?	04:55
Estel^	Hurrian, yep	04:55
Estel^	SpeedEvil, the point is to sue different resolutions, and to not use PAL video out ;)	04:55
Estel^	= I would eb glad to even use real 800x480 via dhmi on external screen, but of course, other, higher resolutions would be great to	04:56
Hurrian	Estel^, vncserver -geometry 800x480 -nolisten tcp :1	04:56
SpeedEvil	Then you need to startup a whole new desktop	04:56
Estel^	no no no, vnc is too slow	04:56
Hurrian	Estel^, vncserver -geometry 1920x1080 -nolisten tcp :1	04:56
SpeedEvil	If you don't want to use the same resolution.	04:56
SpeedEvil	And almost nothing at all will work	04:56
SpeedEvil	As it's all one resolution only	04:56
Estel^	SpeedEvil, ok, lets start with desktop @ 800x480	04:56
SpeedEvil	Generally only minimally ported stuff without hildon tweaks works properly	04:57
Estel^	yea	04:57
Estel^	higher resolutions would be mean to run with only such stuff	04:57
SpeedEvil	(at other res)	04:57
Estel^	Hurrian, VNC is too slow in such setup, and we need at least good 10 FPS :P	04:57
Estel^	SpeedEvil, could You, if got some spare time anytime soon, look @ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81408 and problems mentioned there?	04:58
Estel^	would be evry rgateful for Your input :)	04:58
Estel^	s/evry rgateful/very grateful/	04:58
infobot	Estel^ meant: would be very grateful for Your input :)	04:58
Estel^	as You sounds like someone who know how to deal with this stuff	04:59
Estel^	Hurrian, You're also welcomed there, but You're there already, so I haven't invited You :P	04:59
Hurrian	Estel^, DISPLAY=192.168.1.x:0.0 startx, i guess	04:59
Hurrian	with an X client listening	04:59
SpeedEvil	In principle, you can start the maemo X stack, pointed to another X server.	05:00
Estel^	one caveat - N900's things are, many times, hardcoded to Display<local>	05:00
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SpeedEvil	However.	05:00
Hurrian	you still don't have opengl anything though	05:00
SpeedEvil	Most stuff - possibly including the window manager - won't actually work like this.	05:00
Hurrian	which means hildon breaks	05:00
Estel^	hm...	05:00
SpeedEvil	So, you won't end up with a functioning system at all.	05:00
Estel^	yea.	05:00
SpeedEvil	If you do manage to patch it into sort-of-working - none of the 'main' applications actually works.	05:01
SpeedEvil	(I think I found a few which did - but they were few and far between)	05:01
Estel^	any way to overcome this problem?	05:01
SpeedEvil	And then you run into the issue that doing it this way - you don't have a working normal display.	05:01
SpeedEvil	Or alternatively, you have two copies of X and the whole stack in RAM. In 256M	05:01
Estel^	:D	05:02
SpeedEvil	Which is a good benchmark of swap.	05:02
SpeedEvil	But little else	05:02
SpeedEvil	In principle, something faster than VNC could be done to clone the desktop.	05:02
Estel^	lets say that switching between EITHER normal display and remote isn't a problem, but, any way to actually make it work, not proof-of-concept?	05:02
SpeedEvil	More is challenging.	05:02
Estel^	yea	05:02
SpeedEvil	I've not seen any clean way to switch programs between X servers	05:02
Estel^	cloning desktop could be ok, if we would have something that doens't care about bandwidth	05:03
Estel^	and, for example, tries to maintain constant FPS	05:03
SpeedEvil	In principle, you would need to fork the X server, and make an X server with an integrated optimised VNC client.	05:03
Estel^	0 compression, etc, to not add much overhead	05:03
Hurrian	SpeedEvil, such a thing is not at all good. app will need to be relaunched with DISPLAY variable	05:03
SpeedEvil	This could be quite a lot faster.	05:03
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Estel^	ouh	05:03
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: I don't think it's in principle impossible, but it would need a 'shim' with lots of state	05:03
Estel^	ok, so now, why Easy Debian works liek a charm without additional overhead? due to xephyr?	05:04
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: the patched X server is possibly the easier way.	05:04
Hurrian	Estel^, local networking	05:04
SpeedEvil	yes.	05:04
Estel^	and no way to add xephyr layer to Maemo or part of it, I suppose?	05:04
Hurrian	Estel^, you'd have to start all of hildon-desktop again	05:04
Estel^	Hurrian, I'm talking about local networking as whole backend - USB networking between raspberry Pi and N900	05:05
SpeedEvil	In principle, you could instead of forking the X server, make Xephyr understand multiple displays	05:05
Hurrian	SpeedEvil, basically, making the raspi look like a second screen under the current xserver	05:05
SpeedEvil	And then start the whole stack under xephyr	05:05
Estel^	it's a pity that no existing tools could be used... or I'm wrong? I'm quite not experienced enough to modify code of existing things that much.	05:06
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: Or that.	05:06
SpeedEvil	As far as I'm aware, there are no suitable tools.	05:06
SpeedEvil	Is there an ##x?	05:06
Hurrian	SpeedEvil, actually, we should look into the kernel driver for the TV-Out, and see how it clones the display, scales and sends	05:06
Estel^	Hurrian, making things to see RPi as second screen, would include any very hard to do modifications, and/or closed bits roadblocks?	05:06
Hurrian	Estel^, closed bits shouldn't be roadblocks	05:07
Estel^	hm, kernel-driver for tv-out? I wonder if it's open	05:07
SpeedEvil	It is	05:07
Hurrian	Estel^, the kernel patch is open, so I assume it is	05:07
Estel^	Hurrian, using it to send non-scaled output would be great	05:07
Estel^	will try to buggy freemangordon or Pali about it - it is, for sure, much more benefit than messing for ages with facebook upload plugin (without any disrespect to work being done to RE the latter)	05:08
Hurrian	Estel^, yeah, create a fake framebuffer device to send output of any resolution	05:08
Estel^	if no rocket-science involved, it could be best option	05:08
Estel^	Hurrian, fake framebuffer is re modified tv-out kernel module, yep?	05:08
SpeedEvil	Stuff like video is unlikely to work.	05:09
Estel^	no problem, it's not meant for that - ho ever, if You think about it, video works via tv-out, so why not?	05:10
Estel^	(using 900x480)	05:10
Estel^	s/900/800/	05:10
infobot	Estel^ meant: (using 800x480)	05:10
SpeedEvil	Estel^: It will work to the framebuffer	05:10
SpeedEvil	you can't expect to be able to either transport or compress 8004803*30fps however.	05:10
Estel^	probably, some optimizations to send it with respect to USB networking bandwidth could be used	05:11
Estel^	heck, it could be even scaled down to WiFi	05:11
SpeedEvil	Optimisations = CPU	05:11
Estel^	and allow to either send via tv-out, OR fast usb networking OR slower WiFi	05:11
Estel^	no no, I mean optimisation = lower output	05:11
Estel^	for example, lower fps	05:12
Estel^	it works with tv-out with "transparent" fps (i.e. looks like native), with all those resizing and PAL compression...	05:12
SpeedEvil	That's all hardware	05:12
Estel^	why should it over USb networking?	05:12
Estel^	understand	05:12
SpeedEvil	There is no PAL compression	05:12
Estel^	used wrong word	05:13
Estel^	scaling	05:13
Estel^	probably that's what I mean ;)	05:13
SpeedEvil	It's simply another DAC reading the framebuffer out line by line, and outputting it in the correct format.	05:13
SpeedEvil	As a hardware unit, using no CPU or DSP bandwidth at all.	05:13
Estel^	Ok... I wonder, how much CPu (or maybe DSP?) would use reading framebuffer and sending it @ 900x480 (or other resolutions) at usable FPS	05:14
Estel^	800x480, heck	05:14
SpeedEvil	CPU - unless you can find someone to code DSP	05:14
SpeedEvil	Plus - if you have DSP decoding video, it can't be doing other things	05:14
Estel^	we have some people udnerstanding openGLES, but I think it's not related?	05:14
Estel^	reasonable.	05:14
Estel^	hey	05:15
Estel^	would it be possible to use raspberry CPU to read from N900's framebuffer?	05:15
SpeedEvil	Going to sleep - sorry :)	05:15
SpeedEvil	USB is a bus	05:15
SpeedEvil	It has to have CPUs at both ends	05:15
SpeedEvil	The way you're using it	05:15
Estel^	yea	05:15
SpeedEvil	Firewire in principle can do that I think	05:15
Estel^	so I wodne rif it's possible to utilise Pi to process N900's framebuffer, instead of doing everything on N900	05:16
Estel^	no problem, good night :)	05:16
SpeedEvil	8006003*30 >>480MBPs	05:16
Estel^	formk which those *3 comes from?	05:16
Estel^	from where*	05:16
SpeedEvil	coloru	05:16
Estel^	ouh	05:17
Estel^	8004803*10 = 11,5 Mb/s	05:18
Estel^	if I count correctly	05:18
Estel^	that erm, 11,5 MB/s actually	05:18
Estel^	that should work flawlessly over USB	05:18
Estel^	even 20 fps	05:19
Estel^	Hurrian, Your thoughts about it? isn't my math screwed?:D	05:19
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Hurrian	hmm	05:33
Hurrian	800x480=384000 pixels on the screen.	05:33
Hurrian	384000*3=1152000b color maximum	05:34
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Hurrian	works out to 1.1 Mb/frame	05:35
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cuppsy	Evening everyone. So I'm an asshole and somehow tried to change /bin/sh to /bin/bash for my user. Upon rebooting, I seemed to have borked my N900. When trying to reflash it, it just keeps telling me "device or resource busy." I've read the wiki, and nothing there gets me past the busy error.	06:10
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cuppsy	The phone has/had u-boot, if that makes a difference (I tried MeeGo at one point). Beyond that, it's basically stock.	06:10
cuppsy	Any advice on how to get this thing back to stock?	06:11
cuppsy	Or change back to /bin/sh so it'll boot?	06:11
Estel_	Hurrian, so it should work without any problems via USB networking	06:11
Estel_	even with 20 and 30 fps	06:12
Estel_	honestly, should work reliably over WiFi with 10 FPS (with good connection)	06:12
Hurrian	Estel_, indeed	06:13
Estel_	would be killer feature	06:13
Estel_	now we just need to tease our overprojected KP team to look at tv-out module :P	06:13
Estel_	~striptease	06:13
infobot	Hoogah Hoogah wah wah takes of the box dances around showing of the cpu and memory Ah yeah you likey my little HD no?	06:13
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* Hurrian rages at circular gcc -> glibc -> gcc dependency		06:14
cuppsy	Wow... just... ignore everything I wrote up above. I am the world's biggest asshole. I held N instead of U, and it worked. Eff me. My apologies for wasting everyone's time.	06:14
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Estel_	cuppsy, now worrries, "oh shit!" moments happen to everyone :)	06:19
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Hurrian	Estel_, ever had a moment where you were trying to build something but dependencies were circular?	06:20
cuppsy	Estel: It's weird. I said that, and it flashed the Combined file... but stick got stuck at the five whtie dots. I tried to flash the EMMC, and is gave me the "device is busy" again.	06:20
cuppsy	:(	06:20
Estel_	hm	06:20
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Estel_	Hurrian, what do You mean exactly? :D	06:20
Estel_	your package depends on b, b depends on a, and a depend son your package?:D	06:21
Estel_	impossible situation, until someone screwed dependencies	06:21
Estel_	cuppsy, would like to help, but I haven't used U-boot yet	06:21
Hurrian	Estel_, archppc devs seem to have packaged glibc without a header file. trying to build glibc = need to remake gcc with tls. new gcc build depends on glibc for that header file.	06:22
cuppsy	Estel_ I'm thinking trying U-boot was a bad idea. Seems to be making flashing a bitch.	06:22
Estel_	Hurrian, submit bug to archppc devs	06:22
Hurrian	Estel_, i'm pretty sure the main dev is MIA	06:22
Estel_	cuppsy, in fact no, it's just not as much "tutorialed" as multiboot or bootmenu	06:22
Estel_	Hurrian, coudl You fix it yourself and upload new version?	06:23
Hurrian	repositories are almost empty, only core and extra and complete	06:23
Hurrian	Estel_, I'm working on rebuilding EVERYTHING from latest Arch pkgbuilds	06:23
Hurrian	since everything is old by now	06:23
Estel_	yea	06:23
Estel_	would need to fix this glibc without header	06:23
Hurrian	problem is, it's slightly irritating as I'm building native on PS3	06:23
Estel_	:D	06:23
Hurrian	**** this, I'm setting up cross-compiler	06:24
Hurrian	everything'll be rebuilt for ppc64 architecture	06:30
ZogG_laptop	celebs here on chan =)	06:37
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Estel_	ZogG_laptop, what are You celebrating? :)	06:45
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ZogG_laptop	after n900 death i'm here once in half year and mostly on harmattan chan, so not used to see that a lot people talking =)	06:47
ZogG_laptop	and you and Hurrian are not enuf for celebs?	06:48
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ZogG_laptop	lol	06:52
ZogG_laptop	i was spoking with you while you was off	06:52
ZogG_laptop	doen't matter. need to go to sleep ☺	06:53
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Estel_	good night ZogG :)	07:05
Estel_	ZogG_laptop, actually. well, I'm just cooking fun things on my wrt54GL	07:05
Estel_	so, sometimes, I reboot router	07:05
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Estel_	normally, i'm available 24/7 :)	07:06
Estel_	(of course, I mean only my presence on I$RC - I may be away, actually, but I do read logs after returning)	07:06
Estel_	so feel free to write to me, especially using my name - this way, I have Your message highlighted	07:06
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Sc0rpius	:/	07:36
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Sc0rpius	tmo down?	08:07
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Estel_	Sc0rpius, no, why?	08:14
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Sc0rpius	it was down for a while	08:26
Sc0rpius	it's up again.	08:26
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jacekowski	where is pali	11:49
jacekowski	infobot: seen pali	11:49
infobot	pali <~pali@unaffiliated/pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9h 25m 1s ago, saying: 'nox-, thanks for non flash link!'.	11:49
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teotwaki	I can't by my 114wpm record :(	13:09
teotwaki	s/by/beat/	13:09
infobot	teotwaki meant: I can't beat my 114wpm record :(	13:09
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Hurrian	teotwaki, new keyboard?	13:12
teotwaki	Hurrian: yes	13:12
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SpeedEvil	114wpm on n900?	13:25
SpeedEvil	Your poor thumbs	13:25
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teotwaki	haha	13:25
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SpeedEvil	I got to about 35, after using it for IRC for a week when my laptop died	13:25
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teotwaki	I'm so tired of my job	13:34
teotwaki	I've actually spent the morning battling to try and get a unit test to compile.	13:34
teotwaki	And failed.	13:34
teotwaki	Fucking conditional compilation -- even I were to get the damn thing to compile, it'd be near void considering it's... conditional compilation, so the unit test doesn't get the same code compiled in as other parts of the system.	13:35
teotwaki	Fucking stupid piece of ass shit software.	13:35
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vi__	teotwaki: I agree.	13:45
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Estel_	teotwaki, don't get so 1337 with WPM speed, or you'll end up like secretary from Chiswick, 220 WPM (Dr. who pun intended)	14:13
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Estel_	hah, installed aircrack-ng and friends on my wrt54GL... 250mW output + two quite big antennas, + possibility to power it with DC from 5 to ~17V = can use external battery pack to power it... In concjuction with N900 (using usb-ethernet adapter, to connect to WRT54GL and SSH), it creates quite awesome wardriving machine...	14:34
Estel_	still lightweight, and very portable	14:34
Estel_	...And who needs those expensive mobile wardriving tools? WRT54GL, if took out from case (which got plentry of room for mods), is roughly size of 2 N900's, + antennas	14:35
Estel_	could prepare custom cover for it, and do photos when it works in tandem with N900 :)	14:36
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kwtm	darn, setting the device name under Bluetooth Settings will change the $HOSTNAME but not $(uname -n)	15:10
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Hurrian	kwtm, reboot?	15:13
Hurrian	oh, wait, it needs to be changed in /etc/hosts and /etc/hostname	15:15
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DocScrutinizer51	only hostname	15:34
DocScrutinizer51	~jrtools	15:35
infobot	i guess jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	15:35
DocScrutinizer51	I'm not sure if you need a link from real local hostname back to 'localhost' in your etc/hosts. I never missed it so far	15:39
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer51, Hurrian: Thx for info.	16:15
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DocScrutinizer51	YW	16:57
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DocScrutinizer51	damn 2G is nice to battery but disconnects during phonecalls (though that's carrier's fault, as the modem would know to do concurrent data and voice via 2G)	17:13
DocScrutinizer51	switching to 3G on inbound Call is no option either as it for sure rejects the inbound pending call	17:14
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Hurrian	DocScrutinizer, 2G battery life on the N900 is good?	17:35
Hurrian	4 days of almost idle gets from 100% to 15%	17:35
Hurrian	i'd hate to imagine battery life on constant 3G	17:35
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SpeedEvil	Hurrian: It's similar.	17:38
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: In areas of good signal.	17:38
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s2r2	Hello. I've spent quite some time today trying to get into the university's eduroam network. Using wpa_supplicant, I've been able to do it, but it need a "peaplabel=0" config line; I have not yet found any way to set something similar with Maemo... Any ideas?	17:44
s2r2	(It's not PAP-related, "my" eduroam home net uses PEAP/MSCHAPv2	17:44
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[DarkGUNMAN]	afternoon	17:46
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Hurrian	maemo doesn't use wpa supplicant, it uses some different shit Nokia made	17:46
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s2r2	Hurrian: Indeed. ... Is there any complete documentation (or am I just lost if the GUI doesn't offer anything useful to this issue)?	17:47
Hurrian	you /could/ disable icd2 for when you're at uni, and manually use wpa_supplicant etc for eduroam	17:47
s2r2	Hurrian: this sounds interesting. I didn't know I could use wpa_sup on it.	17:48
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[DarkGUNMAN]	is there any way to find out if a process launched osso-connectivity-ui-conndlgs ?	17:48
Hurrian	no idea how to stop icd2, it's rooted pretty firmly into maemo	17:48
s2r2	completely switching to wpa_supp is not...uhm...advisable/possible?	17:48
Hurrian	s2r2, iirc cordia people (read: smoku) was using networkmanager (frontend for wpa_supplicant) in Hildon-desktop	17:48
[DarkGUNMAN]	still trying to find which process is trying to connect to internet by ietself	17:49
Hurrian	he may have some info about backporting it to maemo	17:49
s2r2	Hurrian: interesting. I could switch to cordia, but I didn't have the impression that the n900 was a target	17:49
Hurrian	the applet is still missing btw, if you wanted to install it on Nemo	17:50
s2r2	How about Mer? They probably use wpa_supp, too.... might just give it another try.	17:50
s2r2	yes, Nemo, sorry.	17:50
Hurrian	s2r2, also an option, but iirc the wifi connection dialog in Settings doesn't have advanced options	17:50
Hurrian	you're going to have to make do with terminal commands	17:50
s2r2	That's even better, I got the working configuration on the laptop anyways. :)	17:51
SpeedEvil	'You need a _green_ speaker!	17:51
s2r2	thanks. That's a good reason to give Nemo another try. Hadn't thought of it.	17:51
SpeedEvil	oop	17:51
StyXman	gpg --list-secret-keys	17:51
s2r2	nice password	17:51
[DarkGUNMAN]	There is an N900 image of cordia available to test	17:51
Hurrian	[DarkGUNMAN], the cordia stack is still incomplete	17:52
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Hurrian	it's got less packages than the M5 x86 SDK, which is a feat in itself to make hildon run totally bare	17:52
StyXman	s2r2: two screens :)	17:52
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maemobot	SpeedEvil, if You get so much draw on 2G, something is wrong, either with Your signal quality, or something is sucking power on device	18:40
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Estel_	my device sleeps in C4 mdoe for up to 97% of time, with 2G enabled	18:41
Estel_	(92%-97%)	18:41
Estel_	and, power usage is 4-7 mAh	18:41
Estel_	mA/h	18:41
Estel_	actually	18:42
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Estel_	of course, while idle	18:42
Estel_	I would suggest You, to do powertop tests, SpeedEvil	18:42
Estel_	or test pwoer usage via bnf (bq27200.sh 5 will give you higher result, as script itself is using 10-15 mA/h)	18:42
Estel_	I'm starting fun side project - nothing revolutionary, just something for fun and that I'ven't made before - renevable energy pack for N900	18:43
Estel_	consisting of modular solar panels and small wind turbine	18:43
Estel_	my aims are to recreate current given by wall charger in full soon and light wind (or strong wind and medium sun)	18:44
Estel_	solar panels will be connected via elastic parts,mm allowing it to be small'n'portable to carry, and quite big after "deploying", with wind module on the middle	18:46
Estel_	theoretically, heat dissicipation from black panels beneath should be enough to barely move ultra-light wind turbine, but of course, real wind make it create one	18:46
Estel_	s/one/more/	18:46
infobot	Estel_ meant: theoretically, heat dissicipation from black panels beneath should be enough to barely move ultra-light wind turbine, but of course, real wind make it create more	18:46
* Estel_ is curious, how it will turn out		18:46
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Estel_	I still wonder, how to handle charging - using N900 charging circut to charge batteries instead make us one circuiot less (LiIon charger), OTOH, dedicated charging circuit would make it not lsoe any exceeding energy during strong sun and heavy wind	18:48
Estel_	On the third :P hand, using dedicated charging circuit = losses on transfer to batteries, and then, from batteries, into 5V to charge N900 via port, again...	18:48
Estel_	...unless backup batteries are usually dual-bl5J type.	18:49
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Estel_	aim of the project - being ultra light and small while not deployed, allowing to carry it everywhere, + modular "deploy" lvl, allowing, for example, to clip it into backpack (not deploying all solar modules), or on tent, or just on grass/ground	18:50
Estel_	boat deck, etc	18:50
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SpeedEvil	Estel_: It varies with location. 3 does not - here - cause much extra battery use.	19:05
SpeedEvil	For it idle.	19:06
Estel_	strange, as 2G is - per design - less energy-hungry	19:06
Estel_	of course, You're probably having little worse - than usual -signal	19:07
SpeedEvil	This is largely true when the modem is active..	19:07
SpeedEvil	Umm - no.	19:07
SpeedEvil	The tests I did were with quite good signal.	19:07
SpeedEvil	Power consumption will go up with poor signal.	19:07
Estel_	well, 4 days i ~80h	19:07
Estel_	~80*7	19:08
infobot	560	19:08
SpeedEvil	So what?	19:08
SpeedEvil	I've seen ~6 days on 2G	19:08
Estel_	it's ~half standard battery	19:08
Estel_	so either something is eating Your power, or signal varies much for You.	19:08
SpeedEvil	And I measured about half a milliamp difference between 2 and 3G	19:08
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Estel_	sounds reasonable	19:09
rzs19	any idea why swappiness is ignored?	19:09
SpeedEvil	2G enabled was +2mA - 3G enabled was +2.5mA or so	19:09
Estel_	rzs19, it isn't	19:09
SpeedEvil	or rather 2g/3g forced	19:09
SpeedEvil	So 1% of battery per day difference	19:09
rzs19	Estel_: but its looks lik its ignored	19:09
rzs19	perdefault, itsset to 100,, i set it to 0, or 10 and it still swapps. 50% are used	19:10
Estel_	try setting 0 and enabling something very swap hungry, then try 100 and do it again	19:10
Estel_	You will feel difference - painfuly	19:10
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Estel_	because it must swap ;)	19:10
Estel_	see virtual memory assigned by programs	19:11
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Estel_	by default, virtual - not private - memory goes to swap first, until needed	19:11
Estel_	256 MB is too low for keeping it in memory	19:11
Estel_	swapiness control tendency to swap at it's own	19:11
Estel_	set it to 30 and don't care ;) or even 25	19:11
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Estel_	you will gain most benefits by moving swap to microSd card and disabling eMMC swap totally	19:12
Estel_	+ using correct swap-related settings for kernel	19:12
rzs19	yeah i have played around with many values	19:12
rzs19	i will move it to the microsd card.	19:13
rzs19	i love my n900 and i don't want a killed emmc flash memmory.	19:14
rzs19	maybe, its the last ussable phone :P	19:15
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rzs19	maybe my fears about swap on flash os overexaggerated? ;)	19:18
rzs19	sometimes, i wish, some devices could life for ever.	19:19
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Estel_	flash is quite active, so it adds to wear for sure - although, I'm talking about it for performance reasons	19:28
Estel_	swap on eMMc generate I/O conflicts between it and /opt I/O's	19:28
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SpeedEvil	In principle you can monitot he badblocks on emmc	19:32
SpeedEvil	which will give reasonble warning	19:32
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DocScrutinizer51	rzs19: that's why I recently ordered another 2 fesh ones	19:38
DocScrutinizer51	as no device will live forever	19:38
DocScrutinizer51	but havig some spare will mitigate that	19:39
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mase76	hi! does anybody know, if openmediaplayer reads the gain tagged with mp3gain?	20:49
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DocScrutinizer06	drive-by-asker?	21:40
DocScrutinizer06	"bull's-eye, kick the throttle!"	21:40
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Atarii	anyone here sync their n900 with Google Contacts?	23:07
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int_ua	Atarii: that's an interesting question. Have you searched the forum? Please inform me if you find any info	23:16
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Atarii	int_ua it all worked fine until yesterday, now I get sync errors from MfE, just wondering it anyone else had it	23:20
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vi_	Atarii: nfc	23:29
Atarii	nfc?	23:29
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Pali	jacekowski, hi	23:51
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