IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-05-31

chem|stEstel_: as councelor you should behave like a role-model... speaking of asking people to install kernelpanik *cough* power is it NOT00:01
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Estel_sorry, but above statement is idiotic00:01
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chem|stand I am speaking of my router00:01
Estel_have You ever tried kernel-power since Titan's era?00:01
Estel_(i.e. above version kp46)00:01
Estel_it's so big FUD, that I'm spechless, actually, which, as you may know already, doesn't happen very often.00:02
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Estel_anyway, CSSU and KP are two major community projects, that are going to get *a lot* support from Council, that is guaranteed.00:02
chem|stEstel_: speaking of "why is $that broken with KP?"00:02
Estel_some examples, pleasE?00:02
chem|styou did the last days00:03
Estel_or You rather mean "why it wasn't working in kp42 or kp46"?00:03
Estel_powertop is broken, and it was confirmed beyond any doubts.00:03
Estel_freemangordon was irritated by this bullshi9t enough to check sources already00:03
Estel_and posted on IRC what is broken and why, search for it, if You want.00:03
chem|stlast time I checked everything from extras and nokia worked...00:03
Estel_also, powertop is working great, btw, only screwed thyink is frequency listing00:04
Estel_last time I checked powertop in extras haven't had source published ;)00:04
Estel_now, everything from nokia and extras work with KP, afaik00:04
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Estel_while *not* everything from extras work without kp00:04
Estel_honestly, please, answer this - have you *ever* tried KP above version 46?00:04
Estel_since Pali and freemangordon took maintainership over it, it *never* created any problems.00:05
chem|stno I did not00:05
Estel_spreading such FUD is not noly irritating, but even harmful.00:05
Estel_so, please, stop spreading FUD.00:05
Estel_I agree that some things were badly broken with Titan's version - especially, that Titan dissapeared without a single note and left it unamaintained...00:06
chem|stEstel_: asking everyone to install kp is even worse so stop it00:06
Estel_...see bq27x00_battery related things...00:06
Estel_i'm not asking everyone to install it. ho ever, if someone want device free from stock kernel bugs, he/she should install KP IMO00:06
chem|stit does not fix all problems00:06
Estel_stock kernel is obsolete IMO00:06
Estel_nno problem, as sitting with stock doesn't fix ANY problem ;)00:06
Venemohey Estel_00:07
chem|stif kp is so "good" why isnt it in cssu already?00:07
Venemocongrats for your election! :)00:07
Estel_BTWhi Venemo :)00:07
Estel_thanks a lot :)00:07
* SpeedEvil wonders if his one reported kernel bug got fixed in KP.00:07
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Estel_BTW, chem|st, if You find anything that KP is doing wrong - so people shouldn't install it - fel free to ping me with example.00:07
Estel_because for not, it's total FUD, in fact sounds like very essence of FUD00:08
chem|styou started me!00:08
Estel_SpeedEvil, which one?00:08
Estel_if it wasn't, it may be good idea to re-report it to freemangordon or Pali00:08
chem|styou didn't even ask what my problem is but suggested KP00:08
SpeedEvilThe one referred to in this post00:08
Estel_chem|st, you explained Your problem00:08
SpeedEvilBogus awks.00:08
chem|stI said no TX...00:09
Estel_chem|st, btw, whatever the reason wa,s it's not fair to depreciate freemangordon's and Pali's work by spreading bullshit'ish FUD about KP00:09
chem|stthat isn't really a descriptive one...00:09
* Estel_ is investigating SpeedEvil's link00:09
povbotBug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats00:09
SpeedEvilI tried tracking this down, but I got stuck in a maze of twisty sourcecode all alike.00:10
SpeedEvilthis is, however, I suspect one of the less important bugs out there. :)00:11
Estel_SpeedEvil, dunno, will ask freemangordon. could You, please, elaborate in noob-friendly way, how I can check if i'm hit by it myself?00:11
Estel_wlel, probably yes ;)00:11
SpeedEvilIt shows a bogus awk.00:11
Estel_yea, understand that, but what to check? those awk ticks?00:11
Estel_37 | 8D| awk | cpufreq_governor_dbs (delayed_work_timer_fn)00:12
Estel_something like that shouldn't appear at all?00:12
Estel_I'm doing powertop test now00:12
SpeedEvilAwk isn't actually running.00:12
Estel_roger roger, testing that00:12
Estel_I doesn't have anything awk related in powertop output.00:13
SpeedEvilThe call mentioned is run to see if it needs to change frequency.00:13
SpeedEvilWhat is shown against the cpufreq_governor process?00:13
SpeedEvilwhat process is shown against that call00:13
Estel_sec, I'm uploading powertop log00:14
Estel_AFK for a 15-20 minutes00:16
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SpeedEvilyeah - the above - 'preinit' - is bogus.00:20
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freemangordonSpeedEvil: I see00:21
SpeedEvilAs someone affected by this bug - I would suggest this is almost irrelevant. I only reported it as there were people actually working on the kernel, being paid for it.00:22
freemangordonSpeedEvil: Are you aware if there is a bug against KP? There is no AFAIK00:22
SpeedEvilI doubt it.00:22
SpeedEvilit will at worst confuse people trying to track down power issues.00:23
SpeedEvilOTOH - if someone happens to know where it's set - then just setting the call to cpufreq_governor_dbs to <kernel core> would be a 1 min fix.00:24
freemangordonNo idea. BTW i looked a day or two ago in cpufreq/cpuidle code, it is like spaghetti :(00:25
SpeedEvilI got stuck, and couldn't see what set it.00:25
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freemangordonAnyway, filing a bug report agains KP is not a bad idea, unlike that against omap1, it actually could get solved :). Might take some time though00:26
freemangordonSoon or later I have to somehow fix that nan% in powertop00:27
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SpeedEvilI'd hoped to build a better powertop.00:28
Estel_freemangordon, that's why I fight with flame any FUD's against KP - it's the least I can do.00:28
SpeedEvilBut I got stalled largely as nokia set fire to everything.00:28
freemangordonSpeedEvil, according to IDA powertop is not so hard to be REd00:28
Estel_I got murderous instinct, when someone insist that installing KP is bad thing, for some murky, unverified, FUD'ish reasons00:29
SpeedEvilpowertop is really simple.00:29
SpeedEvil- if you look at the input files.00:29
Estel_Well, maybe not to the point of saying "You won't hijack KP", but still.00:29
Estel_( DocScrutinizer, it's just a small punb, I hope You won't get offended )00:29
freemangordonSpeedEvil, which input files you mean - thuse in /sys?00:29
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SpeedEvilThe CPUfreq/active breakdown is easy. IRQ is easy. PID/'wakeups is easy00:29
SpeedEvilI don't understand the power domain breakups - I'd have to research that00:30
SpeedEvilAnd the totals are also easy00:30
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freemangordonactually AIUI what powertop does is to read and print sysfs nodes, nothing more00:30
Estel_SpeedEvil, we would, literally *love* to see Your contributing to KP in any way, especially via kernel-development. No irony here - it's just that kernel devs are very needed.00:30
SpeedEvilIt's not worth REing00:30
Estel_freemangordon and Pali are doing epic things, but they're only two here :)00:30
SpeedEvilI haven't actually done kernel code, and unfortunately, all my time at the moment is spent doing pointless unproductive stuff like reading hundreds of pages of court jugements.00:31
freemangordonSpeedEvil, yeah, writing it from scratch is mybe a better idea00:32
freemangordonNow we only have to find a volunteer for the job :D00:32
SpeedEvilContains a somewhat useful script.00:33
freemangordonOn the side note: I am almost ready with REing of, the one I suspect is guilty for broken FB on n90000:34
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Estel_freemangordon, then send Nokia inco00:35
Estel_for fixing something that was broken from very release00:35
freemangordonyeah, two functions remaining - facebook_login and facebook_request_free00:35
SpeedEvilI have doubts that will work :)00:35
freemangordonsending a invoice?00:36
Estel_erm, sorry for bothering, but don't have google in hand (I'm on 10 kbps connection at the moment) - who remember command to check Hw revision?00:36
freemangordonThat NEVER works :)00:36
Estel_uname what?00:36
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Estel_so send them two gangstas meant to "get loan paid"00:36
freemangordonEstel_, osso-product-info or something00:36
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Estel_I'm having 5 devices in front of me, want to check if maybe I've luck by finding "holy revision" ;)00:37
Estel_then, i'll install qtflow on it all and make a "family photo"00:37
Estel_eh, stock kernel - can't reliably turn device on, while connected to charger00:38
Estel_sure people, stay on stock ;)00:38
SpeedEvili don't think any kernel bugs as such are much annoying me.00:39
SpeedEvilmore sw ones.00:39
Estel_true, it was rather irony.00:39
Estel_osso-product-info doesn't show hw revision :/00:40
freemangordonBTW talking about bugs in KP, I think there is at least one, and it was introduced by Pali,. But I am waiting for his exams to finish.00:40
Estel_aye, i'll oppen google in text mode00:40
Estel_and hope that this behemot will show me results in 5 minutes or so :LP00:41
freemangordoni.e. echoing "0" to unlock fmtx leads to 100% CPU usage00:41
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freemangordonstill only in -devel00:42
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Venemointeresting to see that there's still life in Fremantle :)00:45
chem|stfreemangordon: I know, I always have an eye for $user00:46
chem|stmeaning as long as something is still ment devel it is not for $user00:47
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freemangordonchem|st: sure thing, but honestly, if we put OC (and Pali's bug) aside, KP (v50) and kernel-cssu are rock-stable. Not that we should put them into $users throats tomorrow :)00:49
* Woody14619 LOLs a Estel_'s "You won't hijack KP" pun. :)00:50
Woody14619So... All this chatter about "facebook" being broken on n900... What exactly is broken?  Image upload?  Chat?00:51
freemangordonuploader and widget00:52
Woody14619k.   I don't use the widget, but uploader seems to work fine for me?00:52
freemangordonhmm, let me try00:52
Woody14619I just uploaded a pic yesterday.00:52
Woody14619I'll push one now to be sure...00:52
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Woody14619yeah... slow, but it works fine.00:56
freemangordonthat is strange, I have a "Transfer error" here00:58
Woody14619     Check the last picture (lawnmower).00:58
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freemangordonWoody14619, yeah, saw that00:59
SpeedEvilWoody14619: What does that '*' say?00:59
SpeedEvil'5 horsepower thermal, if on fire'00:59
Woody14619I think that means when fully charged and free-spinning. :)01:00
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Woody14619Now I'll note something odd... when I run it over T-Mobil, it works fine.  Over wifi at work, works fine.  Wifi from home?  I get a transfer error every time.01:01
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Woody14619But it's been doing that for me for about 6 months... so... I figured it was TW and FB arguing about spam or such.01:01
freemangordonSOPA? :P01:01
Woody14619:P I hope not..01:02
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Woody14619SpeedEvil: Love that little mower. :)  Very nice, when it works.01:03
* SpeedEvil needs to strip the carb on his strimmer.01:03
chem|stWoody14619: just tried... upload is not working for me01:03
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freemangordonNot working over GPRS too01:03
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Woody14619Hmm... See for me it works every time over gprs.01:04
Woody14619freemangordon, have you unlinked and relinked to FB lately?  I did that a while ago because the app wanted post permissions and didn't have them.01:04
freemangordontried with WLAN and GPR, no joy01:04
Woody14619And it was always giving me an error because of that.01:04
freemangordonWoody14619, no01:04
freemangordonShould I?01:05
Woody14619I had to completely diban the app on FB, uninstall the plugin, then reinstall and re-auth with it.01:05
Woody14619Maybe that's the issue?01:05
freemangordonaaah. I see, let me try01:05
Woody14619Couldn't hurt to try?01:05
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freemangordonWoody14619, cannot validate account01:16
freemangordon"no internet connection available" bullshit01:16
freemangordonthough I didn;t uninstall the plugin01:17
Woody14619Wait.. what?01:18
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Woody14619So you diabled the app on FB only?01:18
freemangordonI deleted it. on FB01:19
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Woody14619And it won't re-enable on the N900?01:19
freemangordonpressing "validate" results in "no network connection available. operation canceled" banner01:20
freemangordonBTW there was an explanation from MohammadAG why it does not work01:20
Woody14619Ok?  What was the explination?  (Perhapse I have some glitch that lets it still work?)01:21
freemangordonFB changed theit API, the one used on n900 is deprecated01:21
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Woody14619Well, yeah, except it still works for me?  It also looks like the app page is gone.01:22
Woody14619The pic I posted says "via Nokia N900", where the later is a link to the facebook app.  But the app page is gone. (
freemangordon:) nice01:23
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Woody14619So, at some level the app is still there... and working... But at some level it's gone. :P01:25
freemangordonWoody14619, maybe you are served by some server which is still not updated01:25
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Woody14619Perhapse?  Maybe the larger server houses have their own "leaf" device to interface w/ FB?  So TMobile & Verizon still are happy, but TW is not?01:26
* Sc0rpius sighs01:26
wmaroneok so the widget et. al. is dead01:27
freemangordonanyway, I almost finished REing the part with facebook_login function in it, lets hope it is the correct library01:27
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MohammadAGApplication page was also deleted for sociality, apparently you have to use timeline now01:35
MohammadAGSo it's not the reason01:36
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MohammadAGIf it still works for someone it should work for everyone01:36
freemangordonMohammadAG, it definitely does not work here whike works for Woody1461901:37
Woody14619I have timeline, yet still can use it.01:38
MohammadAGfreemangordon: Try extending the token01:38
MohammadAGI meant timeline for app pages01:38
freemangordonMohammadAG, you lost me01:38
MohammadAGThey changed the comment system though, that's for sure01:38
MohammadAGfreemangordon: Extend the access token used01:39
Woody14619ahh... I was also noting a few other apps have the same "icon" as the one that does the uploading.  They all don't support https browsing.  So I'm trying to disable that now to see if I can see it with "normal" http...01:39
MohammadAGIt should be saved in gconf01:39
freemangordonwhere am I supposed to do that?01:39
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Woody14619YIPES!  Ok.  So, Hermes, for example, has the same app icon.  When I browse to it unsecured, it's showing me an iframe with what looks like a CGI input dump.01:41
Venemothis is awesome! :)01:41
Venemomy app got accepted to the device program in the Qt 5 category :)01:42
Woody14619Wow! Congrats Venemo!01:42
Venemothx Woody14619 :)01:42
Venemodo you guys think it would be rude to tell qgil that I'd like a white N9?01:43
Woody14619LOL! K... I think I know who maintains this (or is supposed to) on FB.  @INC=/home/jaffa/lib/perl-mine, /etc/perl,...01:43
freemangordonMohammadAG, there are two "cryptic" values in, both of them give "Invalid OAuth access token." where trying to check the permissions with
MohammadAGVenemo: No, they're not made of diamonds01:44
VenemoMohammadAG: they're not made of diamonds, but I'm bored about every gadget being black01:44
Venemoso if possible, I'd like the N9 in white. if this is absolutely not possible, I'd like the blue one. if that's not possible either, I'd take the black one. under no circumstances would I want a pink one. I don't have a problem with that color, but most of my acquintances would laugh at me.01:45
jacekowskiif i could get one for free i would even take the pink one01:46
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MohammadAGI wouldn't01:46
jacekowskito be honest, i would take pink one just for laughs01:46
MohammadAGI hate magneta/pink01:46
MohammadAGCyan is a colour I wouldn't have bought on my own01:47
MohammadAGBut the lumia I got is cyan and I love it01:47
Venemowell, I respect everyone's opinion01:49
Venemobut my favourite N9 is the white N901:49
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VenemoMohammadAG: so, would it be okay if I told this to Quim?01:56
MohammadAGHe won't bite your head off if you ask ;)01:58
Venemohow should I ask? in mail, or in a PM on TMO, or in a comment under my application in the wiki?02:00
MohammadAGMail if you got accepted02:03
MohammadAGGotta hit the sack, night02:07
Venemonight :)02:08
VenemoI'll go too. bye!02:08
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Woody14619I'm off to home as well... Good luck w/ the FB stuff freemangordon.02:15
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Estel_gratz Venemo!02:17
Estel_BTW, isn't ehite too applei'ish?;)02:18
infobotEstel_ meant: BTW, isn't white too applei'ish?;)02:18
Estel_BTW, given device for free, I would accept event pink & glitter one02:18
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Estel_hopefully, they haven't made any pink N950's ;)02:18
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SpeedEvilEstel_: with fluttershy on the back?02:21
Estel_with butterflies02:21
Estel_Would create theme related to "Under the Pink" album02:22
VenemoEstel_: :)02:22
Estel_and would proudly use it as Tori Amos related stuff ;)02:22
Estel_not that tori have much common with pink, hoever02:22
VenemoEstel_: what, you haven't seen the pink N950?02:23
Estel_Yea, i also haven't seen white mouses lately, or silver unicorns02:23
Estel_although, someone have in signature "4x N950 silver"02:23
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Estel_whatever it means02:23
Estel_but, black is the color of the rainbow02:24
Venemowell, there were some prototype silver N950s. their existence is denied publicly, but everyone knows they exist.02:24
Estel_But should I belive that some random noob got 4 of them?02:24
Venemosuch as the infamous "N9" leak from late 2010.02:24
Estel_unless he bought some chinese fake ones, I doubt it02:24
VenemoI don't care about random noobs02:24
Estel_BTw, he submitted to CA02:25
Venemomaybe he just wishes to have thise02:25
HurrianVenemo, didn't someone post about having a silver proto non-CE in the CA?02:25
Estel_hbe isn't on any list with people who hjave received N950, so can't deny ;)02:25
VenemoHurrian: I dunno02:25
Estel_Hurrian, it was that one I think02:25
Estel_Hurrian, do You remember command to check hw revision?02:26
Hurriancat /proc/cpuinfo02:26
Estel_one of 5 N900's lying behind me on desk is 2204 revision02:27
Venemoyou have 5 N900s?02:27
HurrianEstel_, most of the differences between revisions seems to be on the outside02:27
Estel_I know02:27
HurrianVenemo, you're not stocking up on N900s?02:27
Estel_Venemo, only temporaly ;P02:28
VenemoHurrian: no, why?02:28
Estel_Hurrian, although, some claim that PU is "better" on 220402:28
Venemowhat could I do with an N900 anyway?02:28
Estel_i.e. lower profiles while overcxlocking etc. Personally, I don't belive it ;)02:28
Estel_Venemo, everything?02:28
Estel_Hurrian, btw, what are those outside differencies?02:29
SpeedEvilit's quite plausible that some devices have a newer version of chips.02:29
VenemoEstel_: I use the N950 for everything :)02:29
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Estel_Venemo, honestly, currently, N900 is doing circles around N950 and N9 together, in terms of usability02:30
Estel_and it seems it won't change in following months02:30
Estel_sure, N950 got impressive hardware (RAM, RAM) but...02:30
Estel_Nemo is kinda dissapointing for now - whole concept seems to be dumbed down itnerface...02:30
VenemoEstel_: srsly? in what sense?02:30
HurrianEstel_, iirc it's got something to do with how slippery the keyboard is02:30
Estel_packages are low due to change into rmp with Mer02:30
GeneralAntillesDefine "usability"02:30
Estel_ammount of things You can achieve with it, especially re simulating desktop computer ;)02:31
VenemoEstel_: I used to use my old N900 for a while when the N950 broke. the N900 felt sluggish.02:31
Estel_Venemo, a matter of proper settings re swap etc02:31
SpeedEvili'm using my n900 more than my n95002:31
Estel_N950 is great hardware, really02:31
Venemothat being said, I used to use the N900 as a complete laptop replacement for weeks in 2009 and 2010. I just loved that thing :)02:32
Estel_sad to say that, Fremantle beats up Harmattan a lot, and Mer is still on much development state02:32
VenemoFremantle beats Harmattan in which sense?02:32
Estel_architexture - don't tell me you like frankenstein harmattan is (partly meego, partly maemo, partly whatsnot), UI (Harm one is much more closed)02:33
Estel_+ user side, i.e. available applications, etc02:33
Estel_honestly, if I ever get N950/N9, first thing to get there will be Mer and probably, Nemo, despite flaws02:33
Venemoit has a lot more fluent UI.02:33
Estel_and that is because I don't belive in Cordia sucess, despite milestones being achieved02:33
HurrianEstel_, why not Cordia?02:33
Venemoarchitecture is mostly the same, except for Aegis of course02:33
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Estel_would love to, but IMO Smoku isn't a kind of person who is interested in having more than 2 developers at all02:34
Estel_Hurrian, I read Your mind ;)02:34
Estel_well, I would love to be wrong...02:34
Estel_but Cordia seems to be very niche project, with only 2 people working on it, and 0 interest in pulling mroe devs to it...02:34
Venemowat, smoku has 2 developers on Cordia? since when?02:34
Estel_I'm afraid current milestone may be last, it will drown due to lack of working hands02:34
HurrianEstel_, yeah, kinda noticed the lack of interest on it02:34
Estel_Venemo, he + another guy is working on it AFAIK02:35
Estel_Hurrian, honestly, interest around Cordia was great, but smoku is just anti-social guy02:35
VenemoI used to have an interest in Cordia before the Harmattan times02:35
Estel_and did *everything* to make it non-friendly for others to join02:35
Estel_(my personal opinion)02:35
Venemoin any case, I'm convinced that Cordia is not the way forward.02:35
Estel_I would *love* to have hildonish UI on Mer, as Nemo irritates the hell outa me...02:36
Estel_but don't belive it will be ever ready for everyday usage02:36
Estel_Of course I may be wrong02:36
Estel_maybe he is anti-social and such genius, that he will achieve everything alone02:36
Estel_although, smoku is kinda well known for abandoning half-baked projects02:36
Estel_almost every package that he maintain is on "update promise" for a year or 1,502:37
* SpeedEvil wishes he had a few million to drop on a sane phone platform.02:37
Estel_disclaimer" all above is my personal view, not Council's one :P02:37
HurrianEstel_, which means if the fremantle community wants F-HD to be completed, more people need to be working on it02:37
Estel_SpeedEvil, same here02:37
Estel_Hurrian, yea, but some design decisions about Cordia irrtate people very much02:37
Estel_have You been following Cordia mailing list?02:38
HurrianEstel_, not really02:38
Hurrianalso, what design decisions? The marina theme? Anything else should stick by Fremantle stuff02:38
Estel_well, basically, this guy is jsut pivoting everything into way he imagine it and don't care much about other people view at all02:38
Estel_i'm not talking about irrelevant things like theme02:38
SpeedEvilAlso - what's cordia.02:39
* SpeedEvil hasn't been tracking.02:39
Estel_0 interest for documenting project in a way that other can join development in-middle02:39
HurrianSpeedEvil, Fremantle-Hildon-Desktop for MeeGo/Mer02:39
Estel_SpeedEvil, Cordia is UX for Mer02:39
Estel_re-creation of HD for Mer02:39
Estel_of course not re-suing closed blobs02:39
SpeedEvili see.02:39
HurrianEstel_, not really re-creation, more like "porting and using newer stuff"02:40
Venemoin my opinion, the right way forward would be a QML-based UX on top of Mer.02:40
Estel_Hurrian, agree, but porting only open parts02:40
Estel_and re-creating closed ones02:40
Hurrianalso, I noticed, the hildon-desktop in the Maemo 5 SDK has most of the closed components stripped out02:40
Estel_would be sane ides, *if* done properly02:40
Estel_although, it's a shit house re motivation and gaining interest, and gaining developers and...02:41
Estel_well, Gnome is shithouse re motivating others, yet it's alive, so... :P02:41
Estel_...I may be wrong in all above. who knows02:41
Estel_although, I wouldn't buy Cordia stocks now.02:41
Estel_I still can't get why Mer decided to not use .deb02:42
Estel_I understand "superiority" arguments...02:42
HurrianVenemo, yeah, since many closed programs for Fremantly are being rewritten in QML02:42
HurrianEstel_, maybe they wanted to comply with the LSB or MeeGo?02:42
Estel_but it will slow porting Fremantle userland programs by a order of magnitude or two02:42
Estel_they we're not obliged to.02:43
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Venemowell, Qt is definitely the way forward, and QML is definitely the way forward, regarding UI02:43
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Venemoin any case02:44
Estel_I'm not sure about QT being ultimate way forward, but, it isn't problematic either02:44
VenemoI'll be sleeping02:44
Venemogood night :)02:44
Estel_see ya!02:44
SpeedEvil - completely off-topic.02:44
SpeedEvilkitty encoding.02:44
VenemoEstel_: one more thing: it's not called "QT". It's called "Qt".02:44
Estel_Venemo, sure thing.02:45
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Estel_Although i hope they're not religious about it?02:45
Estel_cause i'm going to call it qt many times soon, when i don't have shift close by.02:45
Estel_SpeedEvil, 8/1602:47
SpeedEvili got about 10/10 - then i got 6 wrong in a row02:47
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SpeedEvilSome are easy - it's hard to tell with the blurry ones02:47
Estel_Hurrian, 2 of 3 new N900's are 220402:47
Estel_again, what are the "external differencies" You were talking about?02:48
Estel_SpeedEvil, yeah. And sepia/black n white ones too02:48
Estel_but some were sneaky02:48
SpeedEvilYou could probably get most if you zoom02:48
HurrianEstel_, how new?02:48
Estel_new aka arrived today02:49
Estel_all used02:49
Hurrian2101 is still by far the most widespread revision02:49
Estel_my main N900 is 2101 and I'm very satisfied02:49
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HurrianEstel_, external differences are the slippery-ness of the keyboard02:52
Hurriana friend has a 2204, and the keys are significantly shinier02:52
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Estel_Hurrian, erm, can't notice that on N900's I'm having here, despite different revisions02:55
Estel_it seems that shinier keys = more "sandpappered" by fingers02:55
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Sc0rpiushow do you guys know what revision of N900 you have?04:43
SpeedEvilcat /proc/cpuingo04:44
Hurriancat /proc/cpuinfo04:46
Estel_cat /proc/cpuinfo04:49
Estel_what, I just though that i;ll join the party :P04:49
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Sc0rpiushmm lemme test05:09
Sc0rpiusI knew I didn't have the shinier keys since my keyboard peeled and I had to replace it with a chinese one05:10
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Sc0rpiustmo down?08:08
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JaffaWoody14619: freemangordon: You seemed to be talking about the Facebook app on the N900 (I don't know which) but also about Hermes (which is more than just a Facebook app)11:04
JaffaWoody14619: There are a few errors in handling authentication (not actually related to the CGI dump - it's just that Facebook requires a URL) which are tracked in Bugzilla. Patches welcome.11:05
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freemangordonJaffa, hopefully today I will have compete RE of FB library used by FB widget and photo uploader responsible for login part11:07
freemangordonWill put that on gitorious when ready11:07
freemangordonJaffa, you mean FB requires redirect URL?11:08
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Jaffafreemangordon: Yes, even for apps which aren't websites11:30
vi_freemangordon: If you have a moment could you explain to me how you eneded up with the values for :11:30
vi_ /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_async11:31
vi_ /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync?11:31
vi_they are a little above default.11:31
vi_Did you simply conclude that by increasing nr_requests you should have longer fifo timeoput?11:31
freemangordonJaffa, yeah, I know that11:38
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freemangordonvi_, trial/error method, actually I was decompressing easy-debian while playinf with the values, no rationale behind, that is why I just left them on TMO11:39
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vi_freemangordon: holy shit.12:16
vi_using ramz@128MB I just decompressed an easy debian image in < 1 minute.12:16
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teotwakiholy fucking crap12:55
teotwakiWe have a winner12:55
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teotwakiin the search of the worst candidacy possible, I demand SIFO12:56
teotwakiWhose message, the whole message, was simply "any device".12:56
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aparaattiwhat are these other chanels for device pitching?13:10
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chem|staparaatti: please elaborate13:10
aparaattichem|st:: there is the competition for which is allocated part of n950:s so where do the rest go? :)13:11
chem|stit is written somewhere, 25 comunity awards 25 coding competition 25 Qt-devel and 25 somewhere...13:12
chem|stor like that13:12
aparaattiso what are the community and Qt-devel?13:13
aparaattior qt-devel mainly...13:13
aparaattibut ok... gotta go13:14
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chem|staparaatti: community awards are 25 devices for people doing good for the community in the past, qt-devel 25 devices is nokia's way to resurrect, coding competition devices as prizes for the annual competition...13:18
chem|stme thinks it was on the mailinglist cannot find it...13:18
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jozefkI have a question about Nokia C2-01 and asking here because on #nokia channel there is nobody. I just want to change the language set on that phone and don't have any idea if that's possible to do and how? I need Serbian language on the phone.13:19
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vi_jozefk: I do not know how you found this channel, however I can tell you are really barking up the wrong tree.13:21
jozefksomebody on #freenode told me to try here13:22
teotwakijozefk: as vi_ said, wrong channel.13:22
vi_they were trolling you.13:22
vi_Or they were trollling us.13:22
jozefkok. sorry then13:22
vi_If you change the C2 product code to the regoin that includes serbia and then reflash the phone software13:22
vi_the language pack should be installed.13:23
jozefkvi_, you have some link with guides for example?13:23
jozefkcan it be done on linux or win7?13:23
chem|stjozefk: s40 languages are preset for your region13:24
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chem|stah yeah vi_ said it13:24
jozefkok thanks for that info too13:25
vi_jozefk: use windoze.13:25
jozefkwin7 64bit I mean13:25
vi_jozefk: search the net for 'nemisis service suite change product code'.13:25
jozefkthat's what I have13:25
jozefkand I have linux13:26
vi_that should get you started.13:26
vi_jozefk: then you are fucked13:26
vi_linux is for homos13:26
vi_linux user==lUSER13:26
Raimuvi_: I've used ramz with 128MB now for two days and it's ridiculously powerful.13:26
vi_Raimu: Damn, you have blown my cover.13:26
jozefknemesis won't work on win7 64bit?13:27
vi_jozefk: I have NFC.  Like we said we are nothing to do with nokia symbian devices.13:27
vi_Raimu: yeah, I think I got lucky and accidentially stumbled on the right settings.13:27
vi_If I try and tweak any of those values for 128MB the whole thing starts to fail, hard.13:28
vi_Raimu: as best I can tell, those settings should not work!13:29
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vi_We need someone whos VM tuning and iostat to explain why it works.13:29
vi_(or at least I do)13:30
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jacekowskijozefk: there are two ways of doing it13:34
jacekowskijozefk: but you need phonenix for both13:34
jacekowskijozefk: phoenix*13:34
jacekowskijozefk: one involves changing product code to serbian version of it and flashing firmware for that product code13:34
jacekowskijozefk: and then language will stay when you upgrade through pc suite13:35
jozefkwhere to get phoenix and all other required things?13:35
jacekowskijozefk: or you have to just flash required language pack13:35
jacekowskichanging product code pretty much voids your warranty13:35
jacekowskiflashing additonal language packs not so much13:36
jozefkI don't care about warranty :) I like the more simple and faster way of getting serbian language on it13:36
jozefkbut I have no XP13:36
jozefkonly Win7 64bit13:36
jozefkand linux13:36
jacekowskiget winxp then13:37
jozefkif that's the only one way I will just go to some repairing shop instead and ask them to do it for me :) pay them some money and finish.13:38
vi_jacekowski: You can use 'nemisis suite' which is far simpler program than phoenix.13:38
vi_To change product code with just a USB cable. Then you use nokia suite to update to whatever firmware you want.13:39
vi_AFAIK phoenix requires all sorts of funky hardware.13:39
jozefknemesis for S40 phones?13:39
jacekowskivi_: no it doesn't13:39
jacekowskivi_: phoenix can work with just usb cable13:40
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chem|stEstel_: I just made up my mind about those nokia device seeding, don't you think that "standard coders" should be not eligible as there are 75 devices for coding-only?!13:46
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chem|stEstel_: meaning CA devices for non-coders and coders with community projects like KP CSSU e.a. - only13:47
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vi_So does this mean my ITT thanks and MO karma are finally going to be useful?13:48
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Hurrianvi_, I think that was the point of the CA13:52
chem|stvi_: if council decides to do as I propose, maybe ;)13:52
vi_Finally, everything is coming up millhouse!13:52
chem|stHurrian: well if they include weekend-worrior-coders and weight that above non-coders, no non-coders apart of (I guess) 3 will get a device13:53
vi_does scriptor==coder?13:54
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chem|stcoders who turned their back to the community and got aware of the CA (and applied) should get something huge shoved up their behind13:55
* chem|st is looking for his firefighter-boots13:56
vi_chem|st: finally, you and I can agree on something.13:56
chem|stvi_: lol we agree alot you just don't recognize13:56
Hurrianchem|st, depends what you mean on turning their back on the community13:56
vi_Hurrian: For example, if Titan turned up and said.  Yo, dawgs I heard u like My power kernel.  N9 now plox.13:57
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chem|stmy way of discussing or entering discussions for maemo is biased by the fact that I like to at least pretend to have an opposite position and want to save $user lives13:57
vi_Or Matan appeared and said 'I more or less invented CSSU, an n950 is essential to my needs.'13:57
vi_Or Revdkathy.13:58
chem|stHurrian: well, leaving it behind, coding some fancy tool but stopped looking out for >1year13:58
vi_'I have not actually been involved in over a year now, howver I herd there were som free fonez.  I can have?'13:59
Hurrianbut basically, you want the coders to be left out of the CA?13:59
chem|stI do not know why n950s are essential to his needs in terms of cssu... or does he mean cssu for harmattan?13:59
Hurrian(definition of coders being people who have published packages on the repos/store/etc)14:00
vi_Hurrian: I think he means not taking coding into account when evaluating and entry for CA14:00
chem|stHurrian: at least those who did just port/code some apps14:00
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vi_chem|st: How do you even quantify a 'coder' anyway.14:00
Hurrianmakes sense.14:00
chem|stthere are many coders heavily involved with the community which should be eligible14:00
Hurrianvi_, yeah, that's a problem: package support does intermingle with community involement14:01
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chem|stwhen it comes to that the list is very short and most of them are in here...14:01
vi_For example, is a person who contributes scripts a coder?14:01
vi_It is all very vague.14:02
vi_WHat I am hoping is the council will be able to spread the nokia loot as widely among the active members of TMO as possible.14:02
chem|stvi_: no it is not, a coder who did not get involved with this community apart of posting an tmo announcement about his app and porting like 10 apps would be not eligible14:03
vi_And no, I do not mean the eipc android thread.14:03
jozefkis that looks like a nice guide?14:03
chem|stwell there are 100 devices, 75 for coders only...14:03
Hurrianvi_, or the "halp how do i flash n900 after installing speedpatch"14:04
Hurrian"halp can you send me webos games"14:04
chem|stcoders doing CSSU or KP or something alike wont ever get one of those 75 so they should be elegible for the 25 by CA14:04
vi_25 devices or 24 n950s?14:05
chem|stI think its 10 n950s and 15 n9s14:05
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Hurrianchem|st, that's right14:05
chem|stHurrian: which part?14:06
Hurrian# of devices for CA14:06
chem|stdevices or CSSU?14:06
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vi_chem|st: are you able to delete tmo accounts?14:06
chem|stI have hard feelings about someone porting 25 apps/whatever getting one of those 25 CA devices!14:06
chem|stvi_: depends14:07
chem|stin general yes14:07
chem|stbut we prefer reggie handling deletion requests14:07
vi_fair enough14:07
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chem|stvi_: I removed his post but didn't clean out; however, opened a moderator ticket14:14
chem|stso he is currently invisible to $user14:15
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chem|stvi_: "council corruption scandal" nice one14:23
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chem|stEstel_: AND someone should get only a device if not getting one of the 75 coder-only devices!14:31
chem|stat least pretend to be fair...14:32
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chem|stvi_: what do you think?14:35
chem|stHurrian: you too14:35
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vi_I think it is pretty obvious.15:02
vi_You can't give someone 2 prizes.15:02
vi_That would suck asses.15:02
vi_For everyone else.15:02
Hurrianchem|st, shouldn't it be one prize per person?15:02
Hurrian>1 prize per person for lots of people with 100 phones to give out would be boo15:02
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chem|stvi_: Hurrian that's what I think too, but it seems council thinks different, at least Estel_ said to a devel that if he gets an n950 from the coder75 he could still get a n9 from CA2515:06
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Hurrianisnt the point of the CA25 is so that the people who aren't qualified for the coder75 (but still essential parts of the Maemo community who actually contribute well) to be rewarded for their efforts (and thus motivated to stay)15:08
Hurrianthe more good people we can keep happy and tinkering with Maemo, the longer we can probably stay together15:09
vi_chem|st: in effect 1 user getting 2 prizes?  Fuck right off.15:09
chem|stthat's the idea, that is why I would say coders apart from those mentioned should not get a device from CA2515:09
vi_People should be allowed to enter as many catagories as they see fit, however they should recieve at maximum 1 prize.15:10
vi_Otherwise you will find your small selection of prizes going to few people.15:10
chem|stwhich community coding efforts do we have besides CSSU and KP?15:10
vi_And I can assure you, this will not kindle good will.15:10
vi_None that I can think off, however CSSU encompasses a lot of smaller pieces.15:11
chem|stnice comment again (email, those guys are nuts... you are never anonymous in the internet if not using TOR onion or alike properly)15:12
jacekowskitor has been broken15:13
chem|stfor cssu, maintainers and direct efforts count in my opinion15:13
jacekowskiand saying that, i'm against anonymity15:13
jacekowskiin the way people want it15:13
chem|stjacekowski: right15:14
jacekowskiinternet access should be limited15:14
chem|stpeople want anonymity to do what ever they want without getting charged15:14
chem|stjacekowski: ok now you'r going crazy... ;)15:14
jacekowskichem|st: unfortunately most ys15:15
jacekowskichem|st: it would solve spam problem15:15
chem|stI want anonymity to not have google/microsoft/$company know everything about me just by me being online15:15
jacekowskii agree with that15:16
chem|stI don't want to be anonymous in here on the other hand15:16
jacekowskibut i don't want for somebody to be able to do what they want without any responsibility15:16
jacekowskiwhen somebody starts spamming on irc then he should be hit by a banhammer and never allowed to see internet again15:17
chem|stas long as there are operatingsystems with holes big as I could fit in a horse there will be troyans and botnets...15:18
jacekowskiit should be user responsibility15:19
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Hurrianjacekowski, the problem is people don't behave15:19
Hurrianthat goes for both sides of the argument15:19
jacekowskiHurrian: then they wouldn't be allowed to see internet15:19
RaimuNot if there isn't something that makes them behave.15:19
jacekowskisimple and effective15:20
RaimuThe threat of losing public standing or getting punched in the face is enough to keep most people civil in face-to-face communication.15:20
jacekowskithreat of never being able to go to would be probably the same for most people15:20
chem|stvi_: please stop the trollfeeding!15:20
vi_I have a problem.15:21
Hurrian>account gets hacked, spammer spams, user is banned off the internet15:21
Hurrianwat do15:21
vi_Raimu: classic15:21
vi_Raimu: and I did not even open the link.15:21
Hurrianyou're only doing this if you can 100% tie everybody to their internet face15:22
RaimuYes, just mention John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and people in the know raise eyebrows approvingly.15:22
vi_I showed that to Mrs vi_ last night to try and explain why the news story on the bbc about girl gamers being targeted for abuse was BS.15:22
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RaimuHurrian, yes.15:24
Hurrianvi_, people openly mention their genders on very large, open-access discussion forums?15:24
Raimuvi, my missus trolls horny guys on sex chats.15:24
RaimuSo far it sounds like a worthwhile fire-with-fire cause.15:25
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aparaattiI seriously suspect that lumiaman is in tmo to make bad blood, he makes no sense15:30
chem|staparaatti: link pls15:31
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chem|staparaatti: there is a thread about the devices sed
aparaattistuff like that:
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vi_aparaatti: Yes, however he does not actually cause any problems.15:33
Hurrianaparaatti, registering with a name "Lumiaman", openly promoting Lumias, which the community staunchly dislikes, and starting shit on tmo?15:33
Hurriandoes raise red flags.15:33
vi_You always have to have some guy playing devils advocate.15:33
vi_remember it is TMO, not XDA.15:34
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aparaattiwhat is xda?15:34
vi_XDA is where good intentions go to die.15:34
Hurrianaparaatti, some huge forum for every device ever made. yes, the dev to idiot ratio is insane.15:34
Hurriani do mean /huge/15:34
vi_XDA developers is a forum mostly specialising in android devices.15:35
vi_it is almost the polar opposite of TMO.15:35
vi_It is a complete toilet of a forum.15:35
vi_Maybe 1 notch above 'ipmart'15:35
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Hurrianevery major smartphone non-nokia and non-palm from the past 7 years or so has a subforum15:35
vi_Hurrian: yet no maemo sub-forum.15:36
vi_What are they afraid of?15:36
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vi_XDA-they bicker over which appz to bandaid a problem.15:37
vi_TMO-they bicker over which scipting langueage to use to bandaid a problem.15:37
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chem|stvi_: aparaatti I admonished him, next time I make it count...15:42
chem|stsounds like a pissed off fanboy15:42
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chem|stdo we need twitter accounts thread sticky?15:43
chem|sttwitter is another form of XDA to me15:43
chem|stXDA with filtering support^^15:44
RaimuOT: these EULAs are getting worse all the time.15:46
chem|stehrm warranty void if unpacked?15:46
jaskayou only get a warranty for the cardboard box :)15:48
RaimuThey've realized SSDs are bought for extreme penile compensation and they've calculated that just having the box on your bookshelf will suffice.15:49
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chem|stnow all device program threads are sticky, still the question if we need twitter thread15:56
vi_twitter is fake.  And gay.15:57
chem|stdated sticky threads back from 2010... those mods aren't what they used to be anymore^^15:59
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chem|stnow he is starting me... lumiaman posted my PM...16:14
vi_I swa.16:14
vi_I lolled.16:15
chem|stbeing called police everytime you make someone aware of being out-of-line makes me sicki16:15
vi_Fuckit, he is a douche.  It is the price you pay when you are in a position of authority.16:17
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aparaatti:) sorry16:18
chem|stat least I got aware of a thread being in general ment to be in off-topic^^16:19
chem|stwhat has nokia stock to do with maemo...16:19
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dafoxin which country is that eula even valid/legal?16:58
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teotwakidafox: none, as far as I can tell.17:20
vi_It seems quite reasonable to me,17:20
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vi_Samsung can no longer guarantee the quality of this box after some spacker has spam fistedly tried to open it.17:21
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ArchGThello, I just installed the kernel for power users but now I don't have cellular network18:37
ArchGTI guess that's not the expected behavior18:37
Raimufreemangordon: *ping*18:38
RaimuArchGT: Do you have tweaking apps, own-made scripts or the like that should be mentioned now, installed?18:39
RaimuOr a really steep overclock?18:40
ArchGTRaimu: no, I reflashed the os a couple days ago18:40
ArchGTbarely a few apps beyond stock18:40
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RaimuThat's good. Hmm, I can't recall offhand what logs would be useful now. Stick around on the IRC channel and the maintainer'll pop up.18:41
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ArchGTRaimu: ok, thanks18:41
SpeedEvili hadn't realised it had crashed that far. Stock price had been ~5 for most of last year, and it's now half that in the last 3 months18:41
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ArchGTRaimu: ¿who's the maintainer?18:41
ArchGTso I can ask when I see him18:41
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chem|stArchGT: he will come back to you! was already "pinged"18:44
ArchGTchem|st, Raimu: thanks18:45
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vi_ArchGT: are you sure you do not have offline mode on?19:01
Woody14619chem|st, one of the qulifiers on CA is that those going for the other awards (or past award recipients) can't get a CA device.  It would be easier to guarantee if CA were after the competitions, but I'm pretty sure quim is seeing to it that the other competitions have the same clause.19:02
ArchGTvi_: no, I have already done offline/online switching19:03
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Woody14619ArchGT, are you sure it's not a contact issue?  (eg did you try to paper-wedge trick?)  Also, when you flashed, did you flash a full fiasco image?  Was it for the correct region?  If it was for the wrong region the GSM firmware may not be liking life.  There are lots of TMO posts of people flashing region 2/3 devices with global firmware with the same issue.19:06
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vi_ArchGT: is there even an error message?19:07
vi_like a picture of a sim card with a red line through it?19:07
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ArchGTWoody14619: I have not tried the paper wedge because cellular was lost right after the kernel install but I can try I guess. Then the flashing went ok but I did not use the "right" image I flashed with the international version. However that was two days ago so, why now?19:09
ArchGTvi_: no error19:09
Woody14619ArchGT, Flashing the wrong region is a bad idea usually.  Changing from a custom (eg vodaphone) to an open one is normally ok, as long as you match the region.19:11
Woody14619ArchGT, so I'm confused a little:  If there's no sim card with a red line, what's not working?  Can it make calls?  Send sms? Is GPRS/data not working?19:12
ArchGTWoody14619: I'mm booting after doing the paper thing19:13
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Woody14619K. :)19:13
Woody14619Keep an eye out for a yellow pop-up banner.19:13
ArchGTWoody14619: and no sim card icon, just a error message about "no cellular network" -but in spanish- when i try to make a phone call19:13
ArchGTand in connections the 3g/gprs network doesn't show up19:14
Woody14619Often if there's trouble with a sim it tells you something like "unable to register with network" at start up.19:14
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Woody14619Hmm.. See, that's not a N900 talking to sim issue, that's a sim talking to network issue.19:14
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ArchGTWoody14619: I didn't get any error at boot19:15
ArchGTnow or the past few times19:15
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Woody14619You can always try reverting to Nokia kernel (via the app installed by KP) and see if that fixes it?  But I susspect it something going on with your provider, not your device.19:16
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ArchGTWoody14619: I have another phone at hand, I'm going to try the sim on that phone19:17
Woody14619Almost sounds like the provider turned your sim off.19:17
Woody14619Another possability:  Where/when did you get this N900?  Was it recent?19:17
ArchGTthey don't like me19:17
RaimuYou've been disconnected from the service provider?19:18
Woody14619Well, at least you know it's not a broken n900? ;)  Sims are easy to replace.19:18
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ArchGTWoody14619: actually this n900 history is quite long, I bought it from amazon, a couple of years ago. Then it stopped recognizing the sim so it went back to nokia19:18
ArchGTthey repaired the thing but it didn't got quite right19:19
ArchGTit doesn't charge the battery now19:19
ArchGTbut since I love the device I don't want to stop using it19:19
RaimuHow do you charge the battery? :)19:20
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ArchGTRaimu: a 10$ charger from ebay19:20
Woody14619ArchGT: that sucks. :(  My concern was if it was recent that maybe it's IMEI was registered stolen.  That would cause a provider to drop you.19:20
RaimuReminds me of the frail USB manufacturing defect.19:20
ArchGTI just made a call with the sim on another phone19:22
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RaimuI see.19:24
RaimuI suppose you've tried cleaning the SIM card's conductive surface and stuff like that?19:25
Woody14619I'd try moving back to standard kernel & see if that brings you back.  I doubt it.  But even then, mixing hardware regions from flash images is begging for problems.19:25
RaimuIf there has been a persistent problem before with the SIM card reader part of your n900, it could be it's just breaking completely now.19:26
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RaimuArchGT: Do you remember -- did you get to make any calls or SMSes or something after you installed kernel-power?19:26
ArchGTRaimu: not one single call19:30
ArchGTI installed the kernel today at 6 am, then powerdown, powerup19:30
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vi__Nher royal highnes head crab?20:07
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Estel_chem|st,  don't worry, whole CA idea is about prizes not only for devs...20:22
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Estel_it mean that if someone is dv but his community pqaryticipation is only via posting small annoucement on tmo, he won't get device20:22
Estel_btw, who said starting in CC, qt5 and Nokia store disqualify from CA?20:23
Estel_Woody14619,  in fact it's the opposite. Former prizes disqualify.20:24
Estel_if, for example - hyphoteticaly - qwazix get device from CA due to his deeds for community, he dcan get one from qt5mas well20:24
vi__Estel_: but that suscks20:25
Woody14619Estel_, that's what I said.20:25
Woody14619Estel_, past recipients can't get a CA device.20:26
freemangordonWoody14619, they can if it is not the sae, i.e. if you got n950 you can get N920:26
Woody14619vi__: Why would you say that sucks?  Someone should be able to get multiple free N9s?20:26
Woody14619freemangordon, yes, that's corret.20:26
vi__Woody14619: I am saying they should not.20:27
vi__A person should be allowed to enter as many catogories as they wish but only eligable to win 1 prize.20:28
freemangordonvi__, that is what has been agreed on mailing list20:28
vi__then wtf are we arguing about?20:28
freemangordonhas been/was20:28
freemangordonNFC, just woke up :D20:28
vi__if, for example - hyphoteticaly - qwazix get device from CA due to his deeds for community, he  dcan get one from qt5mas well20:29
vi__^then what does this mean?20:29
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freemangordonif qwazix gets n950 from CA he cannot get n950 from QT but can get N9. Both are devices :P20:30
vi__so an entrant CAN get more than 1 device then?20:30
freemangordonWoody14619, correct?20:30
Estel_correct freemangordon20:30
freemangordonvi__, sure thing20:30
Woody14619who's arguing?20:30
Estel_samde for N9 from CA and N950 from qt520:31
freemangordonNFC :D. I am still having my coffee :P20:31
freemangordonWoody14619 ^^^20:31
vi__But that means that there will be fewer people with prizes at the end.20:31
Estel_morning freemangordon ;)20:31
vi__Therefore less good will.20:31
freemangordonyeah, morning20:31
Estel_vi_,  You would like sifo to get one?20:31
vi__I have no say in the matter.20:31
Estel_vi_,  if someone qualifies in both categories and is recognized by both...20:32
Estel_vi_,  if someone qualifies in both categories and is recognized by both...20:32
vi__then he has a double chance of winning.20:32
* Woody14619 doubts CA is going to generate anything but bitching and bad things for the community, and has througth this since it was introduced (before being elected)20:32
Estel_Council have nothing to do with qt5 and nokia store20:33
freemangordonvi__, bat what if he deserves one?20:33
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Estel_Woody14619,  it is going to generate, erm, smile on face of long-term contributors to community20:33
Estel_instead of ugly ironic smile on face of people claiming what they will do after receiving N950 and dissapearing week after20:34
freemangordonWoody14619, while you may be right, how exactly merlin1991 will have a chance to get a device if not through CA?20:34
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freemangordonfor example20:34
Estel_qt5 and nokia store - especially the latter - isn't even Maemo related20:34
Woody14619vi__, Here's the thing.  the coding compeatitions all give awards *after* CA is over.  We won't know who gets what from competitions.  If you're concerened that someone will get 2, you need to talk to someone in charge of those competitions to fix their rules...20:34
Estel_Nokia can give their prizes whenever they want, but CA is our thing for our contributors20:35
freemangordonEstel_, whatch what you're writing here, it is Maemo6 :P20:35
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Estel_freemangordon, :P20:35
Estel_and winphone is maemo720:35
Woody14619work calls, brb20:35
Estel_see ya20:35
vi__I am not making a fuss.  I just felt that the most people getting the most prizes would be the most desireable outcome.20:36
freemangordonFB RE calls, bb20:36
Estel_vi_,  of course, but only if theydeserve it20:36
Estel_do You see more than 25 people deserving CA prizes?20:36
vi__Estel_: I do not know.20:36
vi__But I can think of at least 1020:37
Estel_btw what was that "corruption in council" thread, You've saved good laugh from me :(20:37
Estel_no topic when I tried it20:37
Estel_short summary, pls?20:37
Estel_btw, vi20:37
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vi__it was the CA thread20:38
vi__in response to some dumb stuff some people where suggesting.20:38
freemangordonEstel_, ^^^20:38
vi__Estel_: did you try compcache yet?20:38
freemangordonvi__, BTW how that develops?20:39
vi__freemangordon: I got lucky.20:39
freemangordonyou win the pot?20:39
Estel_vi_,  not yet20:39
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Estel_vi_,  why You're using 50 nicknames, I query You just to notice that it doesn't arrived in proper address20:40
vi__I am utterly unable to tweak the values to any extent without the whole thing grinding to a halt.20:40
vi__Estel_: 50 nicknames, what?20:40
Estel_vi_,  I'm quite afraid those settings will work only for specific user case20:40
Estel_You're here as vi_ , then vi__20:40
Estel_and probably vi____ too20:41
vi__freemangordon: I do not understand how the settings I accidentally used work.  I have read about VM tuning a lot in the last 3 days and from what I can see these VM settings do not make any sense.20:41
vi__however everyone who has tried them say they work.20:41
freemangordonvi__, but you have settings that work?20:42
Estel_simple - Your use case mean sitting inside zram20:42
vi__Estel_: nope20:42
Estel_and there are people that reported ugly problems with those settings20:42
vi__well yes20:42
freemangordonwhere those settings live?20:42
vi__Estel_: no20:42
Estel_in compcache thread on tmo, Your own thread, freemangordon :P20:42
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vi__Estel_: The 3rd set of settings I posted are fail.  They are what everyone is complaining about.20:43
Estel_ah, I see20:43
freemangordonwell, there was a bunch of settings there, last time i've checked there was no any breakthrough20:43
vi__Estel_: The 2nd set, in a post that starts 'by jove FMG, I think you have done it' are made of win.20:43
freemangordonvi__, did you update wiki entry?20:44
vi__freemangordon: they are still on the 1st set of settings.  They also work quite well.20:44
Estel_honestly, freemangordon, any idea why sane settings fail with comcache?20:44
vi__they are the same as the 2nd, with a lower nr_requests.20:44
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Estel_it rather looks like bug somewhere...20:45
freemangordonEstel_, lack of free RAM20:45
vi__about 3996 nr_requests less.20:45
Estel_with 64 zram?20:45
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freemangordonit is about 32MB of RAM20:45
Estel_shouldn't be much of a problem, as we have 128 swap in ram?20:45
freemangordonbut we don't have RAM for executable pages20:46
Estel_so why it work on N800 with even less ram20:46
Estel_and why executables can't live in zram20:46
freemangordonwell, that is a wikd guess, never traced that stuff as thumb2 looks more promising to me :P20:46
freemangordonEstel_, because they are never swapped, just evicted from PGE20:46
Estel_honestly I doubt we have 200+ MB of executabes20:46
Estel_ok, understood20:47
freemangordonpage table, or whatever was the kernel term20:47
Estel_still I don't think we have so much executables in ram20:47
Estel_judging by my ram usage without zram20:47
freemangordonEstel_, when kernel gets a page missing exceptio, it re-reads its content from the executable image20:47
Estel_it's super strange, as zram is known for providing huge benefit on old notebooks with 64 mb RAM total20:48
Estel_Your rationale sounds reasonable...20:49
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Estel_But I just don't buy that it works on N800 and every other device well - even with low ram...20:49
vi__Estel_: try this.20:49
vi__freemangordon: chill da f out, let him try it...20:49
Estel_and doesn't work for our 256 ram20:49
freemangordonEstel_, the kernel is not the same, I wond bi surprozed we have some bug in 2.6.2820:50
freemangordon*wont be surprized20:50
vi__Estel_: whoops, cratch that20:50
Estel_that is what I'm thinking about20:50
Estel_vi_,  whats the point of setting whatever_ratio and whatever_background_ratio to same number20:51
freemangordonEstel_, you can ask on Ubuntu 12.04 thread on TMO someone to try it with 2.6.3720:51
Estel_very essence of those settings is that they should be different numbers20:51
Estel_freemangordon,  ok20:51
vi__Estel_: try this:20:51
Estel_I tend to agree, that it sounds like kernel bug20:51
freemangordonthough I think it was 3.2 where that swap trashing was fixed20:52
vi__remember to swapoff/swapon you current swap to sort the priorities out.20:52
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freemangordonEstel_, there is some i/o speed regression starting from 2.6.17 or something which lives happily until 3.2 or 3.320:53
Estel_vi_,  I'm afraid to turn those on :P looks like lottery - will work blazing fast, until You hit case of REAL swap activity20:53
Estel_then You're doomed20:53
Estel_tried it with easy debian?20:53
vi__Estel_: no.20:53
vi__ask hurrian20:53
Estel_run chromium or iceweasel with 10 tabs or more, even tmo only20:53
vi__He tried it.20:54
freemangordonthere is 3 years old bug agains kernel on bugzilla, still open AFAIK20:54
Estel_judging bu nr_request20:54
vi__Estel_: I said it makes no sense.20:54
vi__Estel_: just try it.20:54
Estel_if You hit huge swap trashing, You can as good reboot device20:54
Estel_ok, on 2nd device :P20:54
vi__Estel_: !!20:54
Estel_I'm cowardly refusing to try it on main device that is providing me radio, xchat and contact with world :P20:55
freemangordonI am brave, going to try it :P20:55
Estel_then open easy debian - even without lxde - and, I don't know, chromium with few pages20:56
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freemangordonEstel_, ok20:56
vi__or you could try a more normal load.20:57
vi__like 6 browser windows.20:57
vi__image viewer20:58
vi__conversations+6 conversations20:58
vi__while playing mp3 through OMP20:58
freemangordonvi__, I have io scheduler timeouts tweaked, is that a problem?20:58
vi__freemangordon: I do not know.  Anytime I touch those fifo timeouts it all goes to shit for me.20:59
vi__freemangordon: I have also left io quantum at the default 420:59
freemangordonvi__, in theory those should not affect CC in any way, as those are parameters for uSD21:00
vi__Sorry, I am talking about when you filled CC21:00
vi__and you are REALLY swapping in real life21:00
vi__as it were21:00
freemangordonaaah, ok. my settings are amongs the best for that scenario21:00
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* Woody14619 hates to leave, but have a real life meeting... so want to see how this works out though. :)21:01
freemangordonok, 225896 of swap before starting lxde21:02
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vi__you notice no differance?21:03
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Estel_vi_,  I think that Your swap is so-called "inactive" swap21:06
freemangordonvi__, not sure, I need to run those for at least a day to have a deffinite answer21:06
Estel_i.e. things that get swapped long time ago and never touched21:06
Estel_and zYou "active" swap - i.e. only one that is constantly paged to and out of ram - is less than zram21:07
Estel_that's why those settings work for You well21:07
Estel_try easy debian for "real" memory hogs :P21:07
Estel_microB isn't good testbed21:07
Estel_try chromium or iceweasel with few tabs opened21:07
freemangordonEstel_, web browser in ED runs fine21:07
vi__normal n900 use is not good testbed?21:07
Estel_and loading new content21:07
Estel_vi_,  - no, as there is no such thing as *normal*21:08
freemangordonlet me try open office while the browser is active21:08
Estel_for me normal thing is to use chromium with plentora tabs opened21:08
Estel_and spellchecking add-ons enabled :P21:08
Estel_lazarus caching my test in case of any ooops21:08
freemangordonhmm, the shit is pretty responsive21:09
Estel_ok, need to test it myself21:09
Estel_but still, as vi___ said, those settings are nonsense :P21:10
freemangordonEstel_, yeah, i am not mush in easy debian21:10
vi__the point is before ramz=epic lag fest21:10
vi__now ramz=good21:10
Estel_vi__,  will try it on main device later21:10
vi__these settings are a good starting point.21:10
Estel_You convinced me :P21:11
vi__However as I have said. I do not understand why.21:11
Estel_I'll try to check wtf21:11
freemangordonloading FB while open office writer is opened too21:11
Estel_seems like task for tonight21:11
Estel_FB - ultimate memory hog :P21:11
Estel_with 128 MB of zram21:12
Estel_afk for now21:13
freemangordondamn. I cannot enter @21:13
vi__freemangordon: on ED?21:13
freemangordonmy keyboard mapping is screwed up21:13
vi__same here21:13
vi__none of my cursor keys work21:13
freemangordoncannot enter my email address21:14
vi__neither does esc or tab21:14
vi__massive pain in the testes21:14
Estel_freemangordon,  try blue arrow + shift + space21:14
Estel_and for having Your own keymap21:14
Estel_cp /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 /.debian/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/21:15
Estel_then, in ed21:15
Estel_setxkbmap <Your language code>21:15
Estel_= same hardware keyboard config in ED as in Maemo21:16
vi__Estel_: ORLY???21:16
freemangordonbut as you all now I am smart, i used OO writer "insert special char" functionality :P21:16
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vi__Estel_: how to make lxterm in ED respect my .profile and .bashrc?21:16
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freemangordonhmm, 100% CPU load21:19
freemangordonfor the last minute or so21:19
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freemangordonaah, finally, it dropped21:20
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freemangordonbut only for a while, and according to iostat there is a massive io going on my swap partition21:21
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vi__well I am convinced that for normal use, it might work quite well.21:22
freemangordonyeah, [mmcqd] and [kswapd0] are the top processes according to top :(21:23
freemangordonvi__, or swap trashing if we should yse the correct word :P21:23
vi__I guess asking to load the most hogging web site you can think of at the same time as a full desktop word processor is just too much for the phone.21:24
vi__on a desktop browser.21:24
vi__I quit.21:24
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vi__I am going to android.21:24
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HRH_H_Crabvi__: s/her/his s/head/horseshoe21:27
freemangordonvi__, but it really seems those setings are ok for a "normal" usage, will keep them for a while and will report21:27
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freemangordonno, they are not :(21:31
freemangordonvi__, sorry, no joy21:31
vi__freemangordon: it has all gone to cock?21:31
freemangordonno, but it swaps constantly21:31
chem|stvi__: meh21:31
ShadowJKif we could use ramzswap with backing swap, and add a layer to reorder write requests, it might work fast fast21:31
SpeedEvilA nice reordering swap would be awesome.21:32
vi__freemangordon: well it is a good starting point.21:32
freemangordoni closed ED, opened opera (through phoneme) and facebook in microb, and it swaps all the time21:32
chem|stvi__: the start of your email was good but you should not pretend to be a god... just be :)21:32
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vi__chem|st: It was supposed to be tongue in cheek.21:32
freemangordonhave in mind that i use that every day, keeping opera in background with a book opened, while browsing with microb21:33
freemangordonvi__, 128MB is just too much21:34
ShadowJKSpeedEvil; ramzswap with backing swap seems to result in mostly random write I/O. Atleast with nokia swap, it's mostly "write sequentially into largest free block"21:34
SpeedEvilWhich works well - untill...21:35
freemangordonShadowJK, :nod:, and we just have to find the way to overcome that "bytes written" barrier21:35
ShadowJKand ramzswap without backing swap seems silly, don't you end up with least often used data there, before it overflows to regular swap?21:35
chem|stfreemangordon: why is Estel_ telling people that they can get 2 devices from two categories?21:35
* ShadowJK shrugs21:35
chem|stvi__: and again ;)21:35
vi__and again what?21:36
freemangordonchem|st, I think it is because the people can get 2 devices from 2 different categories :)21:37
ShadowJKfreemangordon; it's essentially a garbage collection problem. Java tries to solve this by having a "tenured" heap, a middle heap, and a "nursery" heap, the idea being that old objects expected to persist long migrate towards tenured heap, so that in the future garbage collection can leave it alone21:37
ShadowJKit's a complex problem :)21:37
freemangordonI am wondering what will happen if we split to 3-4 partitions21:39
freemangordoninstead of 121:39
chem|stfreemangordon: you said it was discussed on the mailinglist that they can not21:39
freemangordonnah, you misunderstood me21:39
vi__1-4 zram partitions?21:39
freemangordonno, uSD21:40
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SpeedEvilYou then need to migrate tehm at some point21:41
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SpeedEvilthis might in principle not be too bad, as this could be scheduled21:41
chem|stfreemangordon: k21:43
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chem|stEstel_: this sucks big time!21:43
chem|stpls discuss at council21:43
chem|stwith quim too21:43
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freemangordonchem|st: [20:24] <freemangordon> if qwazix gets n950 from CA he cannot get n950 from QT but can get N9. Both are devices :P21:45
freemangordonthat is what I said21:45
chem|stdevels might need both n950 and n9 but that should be managed besides, devel devices... those 100 "prize" devices should get to 100 different people 75 to devs 25 to non-devs21:45
freemangordonchem|st, I am not the one to argue with on that matter :)21:46
DocScrutinizer51teotwaki: I gonna top that, just for the shits'n'giggles: "N9!"21:46
chem|stif nokia wants development further than that they should lend out more21:46
chem|stfreemangordon: I was telling Estel_21:47
chem|stor in general21:47
chem|styou ust replied in between ;)21:47
freemangordonchem|st, ok :)21:47
jpinxis it possible to install vbox on maemo on the n900 ?21:47
freemangordonchem|st, BTW I don't see the point devels to have N95021:48
chem|stand from what I see we have <15 people elegible for commmunity devices...21:48
chem|stfrom my opinion21:48
freemangordonif the point is future development on Qt21:48
chem|stfreemangordon: well it includes updates from nokia!21:49
DocScrutinizer51even more of a reason to echo N9! |  mail communityæ -s "CA"21:49
chem|stif the n950 is outdated like google just updated their dev-device to 4.x in april... it's never gonna work out21:49
DocScrutinizer51I'm for sure no developer ;-P21:50
vi__No one wants an N950 for the long term nokia support...21:50
freemangordonchem|st, so what? is is not on the field, the FW is different from N9, etc21:50
freemangordonnot that I care much, just a note21:50
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: you think if, you should prefer n9s over n950s?21:50
freemangordonthe point was that if you want to develop for Harmattan you should do it on N9, not N95021:51
DocScrutinizer51I think you won't get any update for N950 in ... well scratch that21:51
DocScrutinizer51you won't get any updates for *any* HARM in 12 months21:51
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: 1.3 is on its way I thought21:52
DocScrutinizer51yeah, and quite probably for both devices21:52
chem|stfor both?21:52
DocScrutinizer51and that's end of the road then21:52
chem|stnow you guys are confusing...21:52
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HRH_H_Crabi thought the n950s were long gone?21:53
DocScrutinizer51no way21:53
chem|stwhat is the diff between n950 and n9 FW wise?21:53
DocScrutinizer51they probably got another 25k of them21:53
chem|stapart of missing hardware in n95021:53
HRH_H_Crabthey are prob. holding on to them incase they need some money quickly.21:54
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: the certs21:54
freemangordonchem|st, if you want to make a descent application, you should test it in the device it is meant for, not on a similar device.21:54
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freemangordonaotherwise you can use the simulator21:54
freemangordonit won't make any difference21:54
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: ehrm I thought n9 had the certs problem...21:54
DocScrutinizer51plus a lot of other nice nittygritties21:54
DocScrutinizer51I think both have a cert "problem"21:55
* freemangordon has to go21:55
freemangordonyeah, this evening is the last we are allowed to smoke in the bars :(21:55
freemangordonand other public places21:56
DocScrutinizer51anyway, there are some essential differences: screen, kbd, probably even core hw components like OMAP and companion chip21:56
freemangordonit is forbidden from tomorrow21:56
DocScrutinizer51next week I guess they will outlaw smoking at home here21:56
freemangordonI am glad I am not "here" :)21:57
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DocScrutinizer51even Frank Zapa was glad not to live 'here'21:57
vi__tobacco WAS his favourite vegitable.21:58
vi__The smoking ban in Scotland was the best thing that ever happened to bars here.21:58
jogayeah we had that too a few years back, it was overall good imo because I rarely have many sets of clothes and now I can go to bar in weekdays without reeking the next day at work! ;P21:59
chem|stvi__: just recognized lately that they started commercials for tobacco warez and alcohol at cinema pre-view21:59
vi__gtg, mrs vi_ needs a lift.22:00
chem|stfor movies <1622:00
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DocScrutinizer51all hail to tobacco prohibition in bars! In former times the air was smokey and smelled like supposed for a decent bar, and nowadays the bartenders think they don't need such things like opening the windows or switch on exhaust fans, with the amazing result it now *really* stinks in bars22:03
chem|stI have a cornered-bar near by... every time I want I can have the smoke of 10 cigarettes at once22:05
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DocScrutinizer51and when I ever got 20kg too much, and no money to buy any food, and want to stop eating forever, I visit that bar/restaurant nearby and take a nose of that excellent exquisite blend of smell of sweat, farting dogs, 6 or 8 differnet kinds of steaming smelly food, and of course of beer in all imaginable states of "riping" in open bottles and puddles on the floor and on the bar and in the drains22:09
DocScrutinizer51but definitely without smoke since some 2 years now22:10
DocScrutinizer51not to forget the hot steamy note of dish washer machine22:11
DocScrutinizer51and breathtaking clouds of perfume of those 5 ladies that never can put enough of that cheap stinking stuff on them22:12
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DocScrutinizer51nah, what rage?22:26
DocScrutinizer51a simple unbiased analysis of the brilliant results of outlawing smoking in bars22:27
DocScrutinizer51and I not even touched the topic of health care and insurance balance, for the few passive smokers now 'saved' from lung cancer, vs. all the smokers that now will kill themselves with bronchopneumonia by smoking out in cold before the bar's door, at -15°C in winter22:31
merlin1991hm I think having them kill tehmselves is more cost efficient than dealing with the cancer ;)22:32
MrPinguWhat I was about to say22:33
DocScrutinizer51not really. Smokers are cash cows here22:33
MrPinguIn general they pay more taxes than would get back :P22:33
DocScrutinizer51magnitudes more22:34
DocScrutinizer51it's the non-smokes that are really expensive when they are 85, 90, 100 years old and more in hospital than at home ;-)22:37
DocScrutinizer51they can do this only because all the smokers are paying for it22:38
MrPinguStill I think smoking stinks and I will never going to smoke.22:40
DocScrutinizer51I'm not arguing against that22:41
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vi__There was a study performed by I think a danish university.22:44
vi__They concluded that if ALL smokers where to stop immediatley the national health service would see immediate savings for about 15 years.22:45
SpeedEvilDid that also factor in increase in tax reciepts due to working age cancers being eliminated?22:46
vi__Then, as all the old smokers dies off and the population living longer, they would see an increase in the costs of caring for elderly people.22:46
vi__cost of lots caring for lots of old people > cost of caring for smoking related illnesses.22:47
vi__So in conclusion.22:47
vi__Smoke it down smokey mcsmokerson.22:47
vi__Have 2.22:47
vi__Nae, 3 at once.  You are doing us all a favor.22:47
MrPinguSmoke for my health treatment when I am old :P22:47
vi__In fact, smoke, do drugs, ride motorcycles and take up a part time job as an alligator agitator.22:48
vi__It is beneficial for all.22:48
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vi__Especially me.22:48
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MrPinguenjoy my submission :P22:52
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merlin1991MrPingu: best submission so far :D22:55
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GeneralAntillesHey-oh, javispedro.22:58
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javispedrohowdy GeneralAntilles22:59
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javispedrohow's the mood as of lately, new council et al? :)23:02
javispedrothe community ML activity can attest to that indeed23:04
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RaimuHow well could a n900 handle Chromium with multiple tabs in any scenario?23:19
RaimuI mean, that thing is the biggest memory hog on my desktop PC, hands-down, because it's intended to eat a looooot of memory for smooth running.23:19
* Raimu checks23:19
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RaimuYes, even now ol' Chrome has gulped 2.5 gigabytes on my desktop PC.23:20
Woody14619chem|st, again, I point you to the fact that CA devices will be given out before all the others.  So nothing we do will prevent someone from getting an N950 from CA and an N9 from CC.  That requires a change in the CC rules, which is all run by Nokia (quim?)23:21
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Woody14619chem|st, as for CA rules, we already state that if you won/got/stole/etc a device from a previous event, you don't get one from CA.  Others seem to want to limit that to devices "of the same type", but I'm not sure I like that...  I think that will depend on who's in the top 25 to 30 in 3 weeks.23:24
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Estel_chem|st, Woody14619, the thing is that rules are set already and we won't change them - they were also accepted by qgil23:35
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Estel_also, as Woody14619 said, we don't have impact opn QT5, nokia Store and CC mrules23:35
Estel_if they wan to ban people that received CA, it's up to them23:36
Estel_if they want to allow someone have N950 from Ca and N950 from CC, it's also up to them23:36
Estel_ouyr rules, as set in annoucement and discussed, are that *no* to giving someone 2nd N950 OR 2nd N9, if the form,er was achieved through other dev program or anything like that23:37
rm_workGeneralAntilles: are things really getting active again somehow?23:37
rm_workthat'd be amazing23:37
Estel_...but nothing bad in granting someone who *deserve* it N9, if he had N950 from dev program23:37
GeneralAntillesWell, noisy at least23:37
Woody14619Estel_, the "rules", as you have noted many times, are to be made by Council.  Nothing says we can't change them slightly.  We already have at least a few times.23:37
Estel_thanks, GeneralAntilles :/23:37
RST38hrm_work: Nah. ANd hey!23:37
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GeneralAntillesEstel_, it's a neutral judgement based on limited information. :)23:38
Estel_Woody14619, that's also true, although I don't like changing game rules in middle of game. that's personal opinion.23:38
chem|stWoody14619: +123:38
Woody14619But overall, yes... at a minimum we're preventing past winners from getting another device of the same type.23:38
* rm_work waves at RST38h 23:38
rm_workRST38h / GeneralAntilles: yeah, i am actually *here* every day if anyone pings me... just normally not super active on these channels, just idling in the background.23:38
* Estel_ nods23:38
Estel_of cours,e if majority of councilors would like to change rules, i'm not entitled to oppose that23:38
chem|stEstel_: lol23:38
Woody14619My votes will likely reflect my belief that previous winners of any device should not get a second...23:39
Estel_but, my personal view on this is that rules are set, and the pieces are moving :P23:39
Estel_Woody14619, somehow, I sympatize, but, OTOH, I preffer to give N9 to someone who have N950 if he really deserve Ca recognition...23:39
Estel_than to give it to someone less deserving, just because he wasn't deserving N950 before23:39
Estel_BTw, IMO, it's perfectly possible (yet, probably, unlikely to happen) that NOT all 25 devices will be granted23:40
chem|stWoody14619: if you keep in mind that non-devs should get served first please23:40
Estel_if, for example, Council will find only 20 deserving submissions...23:40
Estel_I see no reason to make a "lottery" fo remaining 523:40
Woody14619I would very much like to see the CC, QT5, etc update their rules to include clauses about exempting CA winners.  But I susspect there's already verbage in there, probably in the form of "no prior winners to other Nokia competions in the past X months", where CA will be covered.23:40
Estel_chem|st, as for Ca awards, we don't care if someone is dev or not23:41
rm_workwhat does CA / CC stand for?23:41
Estel_Ca - community Awards23:41
Estel_CC = Coding Competition23:41
Estel_chem|st, the main principe about Ca is that we don't serve dev first or last, being dev is just part of community contribution23:41
Estel_not better, not worse (for CA)23:41
Woody14619chem|st, with one cavet:  I think non-APP-devs should be served first.  Most of the other awards are for APP devs.  Folks working on CSSU and/or non-APP things that are important to the community should still be in the list.23:42
chem|stbeing dev is not community contribution23:42
chem|stWoody14619: +123:42
Woody14619Estel_, I think we're close to agreement on your concept, but the bar would have to be pretty high to merit a "second" device.23:43
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chem|ststellarium for example is a wonderfull app but n900 was just the base to get the mobile version polished out, was closed and uploaded to itunes...23:43
chem|stjust for the records: I never had a discussion with councelors on IRC yet afair23:45
chem|styou two seem to be less elitary23:45
chem|stwhat is with the others?23:46
DocScrutinizer51err WUT?23:47
DocScrutinizer51<Estel_> [22:39:56] than to give it to someone less deserving, just because he wasn't deserving N950 before23:47
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DocScrutinizer51I preffer to give N9 to someone who have N95023:48
DocScrutinizer51You're aware there are ZERO n950 owned by those who may have received them?23:49
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* fastlane` wants an n950 BAD! 23:51
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, i don';t get Your last message23:57
Estel_could You elaborate more?23:57
Estel_chem|st, ivgalvez is trying to be here too, but he is currently very busy with submissions23:57
DocScrutinizer51*all* N950 that are _anywhere_ now, are loaners23:57
Estel_Niel also appear here from time to time23:57
Estel_SD69 is rather non-IRC type23:57
Estel_DocScrutinizer, doesn't matter23:57
Estel_first and most important thing - load/have is of no interest to us23:58
infobotEstel_ meant: first and most important thing - loan/have is of no interest to us23:58
Estel_seond, i'm perfectly sure, that all loaners will transform to "owners" soon, but it's just my personal opinion.23:58
chem|stEstel_: which submissions?23:58
Estel_chem|st, CA obviously23:58
chem|stEstel_: I am reading the mailinglist so which submissions?23:58
Estel_they're not putting themselve son wiki on their own :P with linsk to garage accounts, TMO accounts, and submission itself on mailing lsit archive23:58
Estel_You would not imagine how lotta hell of work is that23:59
chem|stno I don't23:59
Estel_well, maybe he have just too much time to waste on IRC ;)23:59
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: I bet a 6pack best russian vodka that none of the loaners _ever_ will change status to "property of the one posessing it"23:59
chem|stI jsut know that it is no excuse, if he doesn't want to be here ok but don't make something up23:59

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