| chem|st | Estel_: as councelor you should behave like a role-model... speaking of asking people to install kernelpanik *cough* power is it NOT | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| Estel_ | sorry, but above statement is idiotic | 00:01 |
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| chem|st | and I am speaking of my router | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | have You ever tried kernel-power since Titan's era? | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | (i.e. above version kp46) | 00:01 |
| Estel_ | it's so big FUD, that I'm spechless, actually, which, as you may know already, doesn't happen very often. | 00:02 |
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| Estel_ | anyway, CSSU and KP are two major community projects, that are going to get *a lot* support from Council, that is guaranteed. | 00:02 |
| chem|st | Estel_: speaking of "why is $that broken with KP?" | 00:02 |
| Estel_ | some examples, pleasE? | 00:02 |
| chem|st | you did the last days | 00:03 |
| chem|st | dpowertop? | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | or You rather mean "why it wasn't working in kp42 or kp46"? | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | FUD. | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | powertop is broken, and it was confirmed beyond any doubts. | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon was irritated by this bullshi9t enough to check sources already | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | and posted on IRC what is broken and why, search for it, if You want. | 00:03 |
| chem|st | last time I checked everything from extras and nokia worked... | 00:03 |
| Estel_ | also, powertop is working great, btw, only screwed thyink is frequency listing | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | last time I checked powertop in extras haven't had source published ;) | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | now, everything from nokia and extras work with KP, afaik | 00:04 |
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| Estel_ | while *not* everything from extras work without kp | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | honestly, please, answer this - have you *ever* tried KP above version 46? | 00:04 |
| Estel_ | since Pali and freemangordon took maintainership over it, it *never* created any problems. | 00:05 |
| chem|st | no I did not | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | spreading such FUD is not noly irritating, but even harmful. | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | so, please, stop spreading FUD. | 00:05 |
| Estel_ | I agree that some things were badly broken with Titan's version - especially, that Titan dissapeared without a single note and left it unamaintained... | 00:06 |
| chem|st | Estel_: asking everyone to install kp is even worse so stop it | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | ...see bq27x00_battery related things... | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | i'm not asking everyone to install it. ho ever, if someone want device free from stock kernel bugs, he/she should install KP IMO | 00:06 |
| chem|st | it does not fix all problems | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | stock kernel is obsolete IMO | 00:06 |
| Estel_ | nno problem, as sitting with stock doesn't fix ANY problem ;) | 00:06 |
| Venemo | hey Estel_ | 00:07 |
| chem|st | if kp is so "good" why isnt it in cssu already? | 00:07 |
| Venemo | congrats for your election! :) | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | BTWhi Venemo :) | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | thanks a lot :) | 00:07 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if his one reported kernel bug got fixed in KP. | 00:07 | |
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| Estel_ | BTW, chem|st, if You find anything that KP is doing wrong - so people shouldn't install it - fel free to ping me with example. | 00:07 |
| Estel_ | because for not, it's total FUD, in fact sounds like very essence of FUD | 00:08 |
| chem|st | you started me! | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, which one? | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | if it wasn't, it may be good idea to re-report it to freemangordon or Pali | 00:08 |
| chem|st | you didn't even ask what my problem is but suggested KP | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=774076 | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | The one referred to in this post | 00:08 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, you explained Your problem | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Bogus awks. | 00:08 |
| chem|st | I said no TX... | 00:09 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, btw, whatever the reason wa,s it's not fair to depreciate freemangordon's and Pali's work by spreading bullshit'ish FUD about KP | 00:09 |
| chem|st | that isn't really a descriptive one... | 00:09 |
| * Estel_ is investigating SpeedEvil's link | 00:09 | |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11091 | 00:09 |
| povbot | Bug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | that. | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I tried tracking this down, but I got stuck in a maze of twisty sourcecode all alike. | 00:10 |
| SpeedEvil | this is, however, I suspect one of the less important bugs out there. :) | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, dunno, will ask freemangordon. could You, please, elaborate in noob-friendly way, how I can check if i'm hit by it myself? | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | wlel, probably yes ;) | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | powertop | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It shows a bogus awk. | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | yea, understand that, but what to check? those awk ticks? | 00:11 |
| Estel_ | 37 | 8D| awk | cpufreq_governor_dbs (delayed_work_timer_fn) | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | something like that shouldn't appear at all? | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Nope. | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | I'm doing powertop test now | 00:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Awk isn't actually running. | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | roger roger, testing that | 00:12 |
| Estel_ | I doesn't have anything awk related in powertop output. | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | The call mentioned is run to see if it needs to change frequency. | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | What is shown against the cpufreq_governor process? | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | what process is shown against that call | 00:13 |
| Estel_ | sec, I'm uploading powertop log | 00:14 |
| Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?7dfe55fd658ab92d#L3C5Qr2w+9wMti3Yta+xf1bI+FM3GdSr8TtKshdA6GM= | 00:15 |
| Estel_ | AFK for a 15-20 minutes | 00:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - the above - 'preinit' - is bogus. | 00:20 |
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| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: I see | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | As someone affected by this bug - I would suggest this is almost irrelevant. I only reported it as there were people actually working on the kernel, being paid for it. | 00:22 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: Are you aware if there is a bug against KP? There is no AFAIK | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I doubt it. | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | it will at worst confuse people trying to track down power issues. | 00:23 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | OTOH - if someone happens to know where it's set - then just setting the call to cpufreq_governor_dbs to <kernel core> would be a 1 min fix. | 00:24 |
| SpeedEvil | (possibly) | 00:24 |
| freemangordon | No idea. BTW i looked a day or two ago in cpufreq/cpuidle code, it is like spaghetti :( | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I got stuck, and couldn't see what set it. | 00:25 |
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| freemangordon | Anyway, filing a bug report agains KP is not a bad idea, unlike that against omap1, it actually could get solved :). Might take some time though | 00:26 |
| freemangordon | Soon or later I have to somehow fix that nan% in powertop | 00:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd hoped to build a better powertop. | 00:28 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, that's why I fight with flame any FUD's against KP - it's the least I can do. | 00:28 |
| SpeedEvil | But I got stalled largely as nokia set fire to everything. | 00:28 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil, according to IDA powertop is not so hard to be REd | 00:28 |
| Estel_ | I got murderous instinct, when someone insist that installing KP is bad thing, for some murky, unverified, FUD'ish reasons | 00:29 |
| SpeedEvil | powertop is really simple. | 00:29 |
| SpeedEvil | - if you look at the input files. | 00:29 |
| Estel_ | Well, maybe not to the point of saying "You won't hijack KP", but still. | 00:29 |
| Estel_ | ( DocScrutinizer, it's just a small punb, I hope You won't get offended ) | 00:29 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil, which input files you mean - thuse in /sys? | 00:29 |
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| freemangordon | *those | 00:29 |
| SpeedEvil | The CPUfreq/active breakdown is easy. IRQ is easy. PID/'wakeups is easy | 00:29 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't understand the power domain breakups - I'd have to research that | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | And the totals are also easy | 00:30 |
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| freemangordon | actually AIUI what powertop does is to read and print sysfs nodes, nothing more | 00:30 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, we would, literally *love* to see Your contributing to KP in any way, especially via kernel-development. No irony here - it's just that kernel devs are very needed. | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not worth REing | 00:30 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon and Pali are doing epic things, but they're only two here :) | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't actually done kernel code, and unfortunately, all my time at the moment is spent doing pointless unproductive stuff like reading hundreds of pages of court jugements. | 00:31 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil, yeah, writing it from scratch is mybe a better idea | 00:32 |
| freemangordon | *maybe | 00:32 |
| freemangordon | Now we only have to find a volunteer for the job :D | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Contains a somewhat useful script. | 00:33 |
| freemangordon | On the side note: I am almost ready with REing of libfacebookcommon.so, the one I suspect is guilty for broken FB on n900 | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 00:34 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, then send Nokia inco | 00:35 |
| Estel_ | invoice* | 00:35 |
| Estel_ | for fixing something that was broken from very release | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | yeah, two functions remaining - facebook_login and facebook_request_free | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I have doubts that will work :) | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | sending a invoice? | 00:36 |
| Estel_ | erm, sorry for bothering, but don't have google in hand (I'm on 10 kbps connection at the moment) - who remember command to check Hw revision? | 00:36 |
| freemangordon | That NEVER works :) | 00:36 |
| Estel_ | uname what? | 00:36 |
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| Estel_ | so send them two gangstas meant to "get loan paid" | 00:36 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, osso-product-info or something | 00:36 |
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| Estel_ | I'm having 5 devices in front of me, want to check if maybe I've luck by finding "holy revision" ;) | 00:37 |
| Estel_ | then, i'll install qtflow on it all and make a "family photo" | 00:37 |
| Estel_ | eh, stock kernel - can't reliably turn device on, while connected to charger | 00:38 |
| Estel_ | sure people, stay on stock ;) | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | i don't think any kernel bugs as such are much annoying me. | 00:39 |
| SpeedEvil | more sw ones. | 00:39 |
| Estel_ | true, it was rather irony. | 00:39 |
| Estel_ | osso-product-info doesn't show hw revision :/ | 00:40 |
| freemangordon | BTW talking about bugs in KP, I think there is at least one, and it was introduced by Pali,. But I am waiting for his exams to finish. | 00:40 |
| Estel_ | aye, i'll oppen google in text mode | 00:40 |
| Estel_ | and hope that this behemot will show me results in 5 minutes or so :LP | 00:41 |
| freemangordon | i.e. echoing "0" to unlock fmtx leads to 100% CPU usage | 00:41 |
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| freemangordon | chem|st: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/kernel-cssu | 00:42 |
| freemangordon | still only in -devel | 00:42 |
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| Venemo | interesting to see that there's still life in Fremantle :) | 00:45 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: I know, I always have an eye for $user | 00:46 |
| chem|st | meaning as long as something is still ment devel it is not for $user | 00:47 |
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| freemangordon | chem|st: sure thing, but honestly, if we put OC (and Pali's bug) aside, KP (v50) and kernel-cssu are rock-stable. Not that we should put them into $users throats tomorrow :) | 00:49 |
| * Woody14619 LOLs a Estel_'s "You won't hijack KP" pun. :) | 00:50 | |
| Woody14619 | So... All this chatter about "facebook" being broken on n900... What exactly is broken? Image upload? Chat? | 00:51 |
| freemangordon | uploader and widget | 00:52 |
| Woody14619 | k. I don't use the widget, but uploader seems to work fine for me? | 00:52 |
| freemangordon | AFAIK | 00:52 |
| freemangordon | now? | 00:52 |
| freemangordon | hmm, let me try | 00:52 |
| Woody14619 | I just uploaded a pic yesterday. | 00:52 |
| Woody14619 | I'll push one now to be sure... | 00:52 |
| freemangordon | ok | 00:53 |
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| Woody14619 | yeah... slow, but it works fine. | 00:56 |
| freemangordon | that is strange, I have a "Transfer error" here | 00:58 |
| Woody14619 | https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4069393460262.2176808.1445109538&type=3&l=d7a987c01b Check the last picture (lawnmower). | 00:58 |
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| freemangordon | Woody14619, yeah, saw that | 00:59 |
| freemangordon | WTF? | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Woody14619: What does that '*' say? | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | '5 horsepower thermal, if on fire' | 00:59 |
| Woody14619 | I think that means when fully charged and free-spinning. :) | 01:00 |
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| Woody14619 | Now I'll note something odd... when I run it over T-Mobil, it works fine. Over wifi at work, works fine. Wifi from home? I get a transfer error every time. | 01:01 |
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| Woody14619 | But it's been doing that for me for about 6 months... so... I figured it was TW and FB arguing about spam or such. | 01:01 |
| freemangordon | SOPA? :P | 01:01 |
| Woody14619 | :P I hope not.. | 01:02 |
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| Woody14619 | SpeedEvil: Love that little mower. :) Very nice, when it works. | 01:03 |
| * SpeedEvil needs to strip the carb on his strimmer. | 01:03 | |
| chem|st | Woody14619: just tried... upload is not working for me | 01:03 |
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| freemangordon | Not working over GPRS too | 01:03 |
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| Woody14619 | Hmm... See for me it works every time over gprs. | 01:04 |
| Woody14619 | freemangordon, have you unlinked and relinked to FB lately? I did that a while ago because the app wanted post permissions and didn't have them. | 01:04 |
| freemangordon | tried with WLAN and GPR, no joy | 01:04 |
| Woody14619 | And it was always giving me an error because of that. | 01:04 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619, no | 01:04 |
| freemangordon | Should I? | 01:05 |
| Woody14619 | I had to completely diban the app on FB, uninstall the plugin, then reinstall and re-auth with it. | 01:05 |
| Woody14619 | Maybe that's the issue? | 01:05 |
| freemangordon | aaah. I see, let me try | 01:05 |
| Woody14619 | Couldn't hurt to try? | 01:05 |
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| freemangordon | Woody14619, cannot validate account | 01:16 |
| freemangordon | "no internet connection available" bullshit | 01:16 |
| freemangordon | though I didn;t uninstall the plugin | 01:17 |
| Woody14619 | Wait.. what? | 01:18 |
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| Woody14619 | So you diabled the app on FB only? | 01:18 |
| freemangordon | I deleted it. on FB | 01:19 |
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| Woody14619 | And it won't re-enable on the N900? | 01:19 |
| freemangordon | yep | 01:19 |
| freemangordon | pressing "validate" results in "no network connection available. operation canceled" banner | 01:20 |
| freemangordon | BTW there was an explanation from MohammadAG why it does not work | 01:20 |
| Woody14619 | Ok? What was the explination? (Perhapse I have some glitch that lets it still work?) | 01:21 |
| freemangordon | FB changed theit API, the one used on n900 is deprecated | 01:21 |
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| Woody14619 | Well, yeah, except it still works for me? It also looks like the app page is gone. | 01:22 |
| Woody14619 | The pic I posted says "via Nokia N900", where the later is a link to the facebook app. But the app page is gone. (https://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=67878695711 | 01:23 |
| freemangordon | :) nice | 01:23 |
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| Woody14619 | So, at some level the app is still there... and working... But at some level it's gone. :P | 01:25 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619, maybe you are served by some server which is still not updated | 01:25 |
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| Woody14619 | Perhapse? Maybe the larger server houses have their own "leaf" device to interface w/ FB? So TMobile & Verizon still are happy, but TW is not? | 01:26 |
| * Sc0rpius sighs | 01:26 | |
| wmarone | ok so the widget et. al. is dead | 01:27 |
| wmarone | heh | 01:27 |
| freemangordon | anyway, I almost finished REing the part with facebook_login function in it, lets hope it is the correct library | 01:27 |
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| MohammadAG | Application page was also deleted for sociality, apparently you have to use timeline now | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | So it's not the reason | 01:36 |
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| MohammadAG | If it still works for someone it should work for everyone | 01:36 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG, it definitely does not work here whike works for Woody14619 | 01:37 |
| freemangordon | *while | 01:37 |
| Woody14619 | I have timeline, yet still can use it. | 01:38 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon: Try extending the token | 01:38 |
| MohammadAG | I meant timeline for app pages | 01:38 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG, you lost me | 01:38 |
| MohammadAG | They changed the comment system though, that's for sure | 01:38 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon: Extend the access token used | 01:39 |
| Woody14619 | ahh... I was also noting a few other apps have the same "icon" as the one that does the uploading. They all don't support https browsing. So I'm trying to disable that now to see if I can see it with "normal" http... | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | It should be saved in gconf | 01:39 |
| freemangordon | where am I supposed to do that? | 01:39 |
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| freemangordon | 765c02438771b10df50fe933bfaa7734? | 01:40 |
| Woody14619 | YIPES! Ok. So, Hermes, for example, has the same app icon. When I browse to it unsecured, it's showing me an iframe with what looks like a CGI input dump. | 01:41 |
| Venemo | hey | 01:41 |
| Venemo | this is awesome! :) | 01:41 |
| Venemo | my app got accepted to the device program in the Qt 5 category :) | 01:42 |
| Woody14619 | Wow! Congrats Venemo! | 01:42 |
| Venemo | thx Woody14619 :) | 01:42 |
| Venemo | do you guys think it would be rude to tell qgil that I'd like a white N9? | 01:43 |
| Woody14619 | LOL! K... I think I know who maintains this (or is supposed to) on FB. @INC=/home/jaffa/lib/perl-mine, /etc/perl,... | 01:43 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG, there are two "cryptic" values in libfacebookcommon.so.0.0.0, both of them give "Invalid OAuth access token." where trying to check the permissions with https://graph.facebook.com/me/permissions?access_token=xxxxx | 01:43 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo: No, they're not made of diamonds | 01:44 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: they're not made of diamonds, but I'm bored about every gadget being black | 01:44 |
| Venemo | so if possible, I'd like the N9 in white. if this is absolutely not possible, I'd like the blue one. if that's not possible either, I'd take the black one. under no circumstances would I want a pink one. I don't have a problem with that color, but most of my acquintances would laugh at me. | 01:45 |
| jacekowski | if i could get one for free i would even take the pink one | 01:46 |
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| MohammadAG | I wouldn't | 01:46 |
| jacekowski | to be honest, i would take pink one just for laughs | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | I hate magneta/pink | 01:46 |
| MohammadAG | Cyan is a colour I wouldn't have bought on my own | 01:47 |
| MohammadAG | But the lumia I got is cyan and I love it | 01:47 |
| Venemo | yeah | 01:49 |
| Venemo | well, I respect everyone's opinion | 01:49 |
| Venemo | but my favourite N9 is the white N9 | 01:49 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: so, would it be okay if I told this to Quim? | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | He won't bite your head off if you ask ;) | 01:58 |
| Venemo | how should I ask? in mail, or in a PM on TMO, or in a comment under my application in the wiki? | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | Mail if you got accepted | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | Gotta hit the sack, night | 02:07 |
| Venemo | night :) | 02:08 |
| Venemo | I'll go too. bye! | 02:08 |
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| Woody14619 | I'm off to home as well... Good luck w/ the FB stuff freemangordon. | 02:15 |
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| Estel_ | gratz Venemo! | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | BTW, isn't ehite too applei'ish?;) | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | s/ehite/white/ | 02:18 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: BTW, isn't white too applei'ish?;) | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | BTW, given device for free, I would accept event pink & glitter one | 02:18 |
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| Estel_ | hopefully, they haven't made any pink N950's ;) | 02:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Estel_: with fluttershy on the back? | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | with butterflies | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | Would create theme related to "Under the Pink" album | 02:22 |
| Venemo | Estel_: :) | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | and would proudly use it as Tori Amos related stuff ;) | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | not that tori have much common with pink, hoever | 02:22 |
| Venemo | Estel_: what, you haven't seen the pink N950? | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | Yea, i also haven't seen white mouses lately, or silver unicorns | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | although, someone have in signature "4x N950 silver" | 02:23 |
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| Estel_ | whatever it means | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | but, black is the color of the rainbow | 02:24 |
| Venemo | well, there were some prototype silver N950s. their existence is denied publicly, but everyone knows they exist. | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | yep. | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | But should I belive that some random noob got 4 of them? | 02:24 |
| Venemo | such as the infamous "N9" leak from late 2010. | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | unless he bought some chinese fake ones, I doubt it | 02:24 |
| Venemo | I don't care about random noobs | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | BTw, he submitted to CA | 02:25 |
| Venemo | maybe he just wishes to have thise | 02:25 |
| Hurrian | Venemo, didn't someone post about having a silver proto non-CE in the CA? | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | hbe isn't on any list with people who hjave received N950, so can't deny ;) | 02:25 |
| Venemo | Hurrian: I dunno | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, it was that one I think | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, do You remember command to check hw revision? | 02:26 |
| Hurrian | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | thanks | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | ough | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | one of 5 N900's lying behind me on desk is 2204 revision | 02:27 |
| Venemo | you have 5 N900s? | 02:27 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, most of the differences between revisions seems to be on the outside | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | I know | 02:27 |
| Hurrian | Venemo, you're not stocking up on N900s? | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | Venemo, only temporaly ;P | 02:28 |
| Venemo | Hurrian: no, why? | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, although, some claim that PU is "better" on 2204 | 02:28 |
| Venemo | what could I do with an N900 anyway? | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | i.e. lower profiles while overcxlocking etc. Personally, I don't belive it ;) | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | Venemo, everything? | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, btw, what are those outside differencies? | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | it's quite plausible that some devices have a newer version of chips. | 02:29 |
| Venemo | Estel_: I use the N950 for everything :) | 02:29 |
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| Estel_ | Venemo, honestly, currently, N900 is doing circles around N950 and N9 together, in terms of usability | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | and it seems it won't change in following months | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | sure, N950 got impressive hardware (RAM, RAM) but... | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | Nemo is kinda dissapointing for now - whole concept seems to be dumbed down itnerface... | 02:30 |
| Venemo | Estel_: srsly? in what sense? | 02:30 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, iirc it's got something to do with how slippery the keyboard is | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | packages are low due to change into rmp with Mer | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Define "usability" | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | ammount of things You can achieve with it, especially re simulating desktop computer ;) | 02:31 |
| Venemo | Estel_: I used to use my old N900 for a while when the N950 broke. the N900 felt sluggish. | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | Venemo, a matter of proper settings re swap etc | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | i'm using my n900 more than my n950 | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | N950 is great hardware, really | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | but | 02:31 |
| Venemo | that being said, I used to use the N900 as a complete laptop replacement for weeks in 2009 and 2010. I just loved that thing :) | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | sad to say that, Fremantle beats up Harmattan a lot, and Mer is still on much development state | 02:32 |
| Venemo | Fremantle beats Harmattan in which sense? | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | architexture - don't tell me you like frankenstein harmattan is (partly meego, partly maemo, partly whatsnot), UI (Harm one is much more closed) | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | + user side, i.e. available applications, etc | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | honestly, if I ever get N950/N9, first thing to get there will be Mer and probably, Nemo, despite flaws | 02:33 |
| Venemo | it has a lot more fluent UI. | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | and that is because I don't belive in Cordia sucess, despite milestones being achieved | 02:33 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, why not Cordia? | 02:33 |
| Venemo | architecture is mostly the same, except for Aegis of course | 02:33 |
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| Estel_ | would love to, but IMO Smoku isn't a kind of person who is interested in having more than 2 developers at all | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, I read Your mind ;) | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | well, I would love to be wrong... | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | but Cordia seems to be very niche project, with only 2 people working on it, and 0 interest in pulling mroe devs to it... | 02:34 |
| Venemo | wat, smoku has 2 developers on Cordia? since when? | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | I'm afraid current milestone may be last, it will drown due to lack of working hands | 02:34 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, yeah, kinda noticed the lack of interest on it | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | Venemo, he + another guy is working on it AFAIK | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, honestly, interest around Cordia was great, but smoku is just anti-social guy | 02:35 |
| Hurrian | ah | 02:35 |
| Venemo | lol | 02:35 |
| Venemo | well | 02:35 |
| Venemo | I used to have an interest in Cordia before the Harmattan times | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | and did *everything* to make it non-friendly for others to join | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | (my personal opinion) | 02:35 |
| Venemo | in any case, I'm convinced that Cordia is not the way forward. | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | I would *love* to have hildonish UI on Mer, as Nemo irritates the hell outa me... | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | but don't belive it will be ever ready for everyday usage | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | Of course I may be wrong | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | maybe he is anti-social and such genius, that he will achieve everything alone | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | although, smoku is kinda well known for abandoning half-baked projects | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | almost every package that he maintain is on "update promise" for a year or 1,5 | 02:37 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes he had a few million to drop on a sane phone platform. | 02:37 | |
| Estel_ | disclaimer" all above is my personal view, not Council's one :P | 02:37 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, which means if the fremantle community wants F-HD to be completed, more people need to be working on it | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, same here | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, yea, but some design decisions about Cordia irrtate people very much | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | have You been following Cordia mailing list? | 02:38 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, not really | 02:38 |
| Hurrian | also, what design decisions? The marina theme? Anything else should stick by Fremantle stuff | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | well, basically, this guy is jsut pivoting everything into way he imagine it and don't care much about other people view at all | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | i'm not talking about irrelevant things like theme | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - what's cordia. | 02:39 |
| * SpeedEvil hasn't been tracking. | 02:39 | |
| Estel_ | 0 interest for documenting project in a way that other can join development in-middle | 02:39 |
| Hurrian | SpeedEvil, Fremantle-Hildon-Desktop for MeeGo/Mer | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, Cordia is UX for Mer | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | re-creation of HD for Mer | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | of course not re-suing closed blobs | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | i see. | 02:39 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, not really re-creation, more like "porting and using newer stuff" | 02:40 |
| Venemo | in my opinion, the right way forward would be a QML-based UX on top of Mer. | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, agree, but porting only open parts | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | and re-creating closed ones | 02:40 |
| Hurrian | also, I noticed, the hildon-desktop in the Maemo 5 SDK has most of the closed components stripped out | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | would be sane ides, *if* done properly | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | although, it's a shit house re motivation and gaining interest, and gaining developers and... | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | well, Gnome is shithouse re motivating others, yet it's alive, so... :P | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | ...I may be wrong in all above. who knows | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | although, I wouldn't buy Cordia stocks now. | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | I still can't get why Mer decided to not use .deb | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | I understand "superiority" arguments... | 02:42 |
| Hurrian | Venemo, yeah, since many closed programs for Fremantly are being rewritten in QML | 02:42 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, maybe they wanted to comply with the LSB or MeeGo? | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | but it will slow porting Fremantle userland programs by a order of magnitude or two | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | they we're not obliged to. | 02:43 |
| Hurrian | ^^ | 02:43 |
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| Venemo | well, Qt is definitely the way forward, and QML is definitely the way forward, regarding UI | 02:43 |
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| Venemo | in any case | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | I'm not sure about QT being ultimate way forward, but, it isn't problematic either | 02:44 |
| Venemo | I'll be sleeping | 02:44 |
| Venemo | good night :) | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | see ya! | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www2.b3ta.com/spot-the-giference/ - completely off-topic. | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | kitty encoding. | 02:44 |
| Venemo | Estel_: one more thing: it's not called "QT". It's called "Qt". | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | Venemo, sure thing. | 02:45 |
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| Estel_ | Although i hope they're not religious about it? | 02:45 |
| Estel_ | cause i'm going to call it qt many times soon, when i don't have shift close by. | 02:45 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, 8/16 | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | i got about 10/10 - then i got 6 wrong in a row | 02:47 |
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| Estel_ | heh | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Some are easy - it's hard to tell with the blurry ones | 02:47 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, 2 of 3 new N900's are 2204 | 02:47 |
| Estel_ | again, what are the "external differencies" You were talking about? | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, yeah. And sepia/black n white ones too | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | but some were sneaky | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | You could probably get most if you zoom | 02:48 |
| Hurrian | Estel_, how new? | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | new aka arrived today | 02:49 |
| Estel_ | all used | 02:49 |
| Hurrian | 2101 is still by far the most widespread revision | 02:49 |
| Estel_ | yep | 02:49 |
| Estel_ | my main N900 is 2101 and I'm very satisfied | 02:49 |
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| Hurrian | Estel_, external differences are the slippery-ness of the keyboard | 02:52 |
| Hurrian | a friend has a 2204, and the keys are significantly shinier | 02:52 |
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| Estel_ | Hurrian, erm, can't notice that on N900's I'm having here, despite different revisions | 02:55 |
| Estel_ | it seems that shinier keys = more "sandpappered" by fingers | 02:55 |
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| Sc0rpius | how do you guys know what revision of N900 you have? | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/cpuingo | 04:44 |
| Hurrian | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 04:46 |
| Estel_ | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 04:49 |
| Estel_ | what, I just though that i;ll join the party :P | 04:49 |
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| Sc0rpius | hmm lemme test | 05:09 |
| Sc0rpius | :( | 05:10 |
| Sc0rpius | 2101 | 05:10 |
| Sc0rpius | I knew I didn't have the shinier keys since my keyboard peeled and I had to replace it with a chinese one | 05:10 |
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| kwtm | really? | 07:23 |
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| Sc0rpius | tmo down? | 08:08 |
| beford | no | 08:11 |
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| Jaffa | Woody14619: freemangordon: You seemed to be talking about the Facebook app on the N900 (I don't know which) but also about Hermes (which is more than just a Facebook app) | 11:04 |
| Jaffa | Woody14619: There are a few errors in handling authentication (not actually related to the CGI dump - it's just that Facebook requires a URL) which are tracked in Bugzilla. Patches welcome. | 11:05 |
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| freemangordon | Jaffa, hopefully today I will have compete RE of FB library used by FB widget and photo uploader responsible for login part | 11:07 |
| freemangordon | Will put that on gitorious when ready | 11:07 |
| freemangordon | Jaffa, you mean FB requires redirect URL? | 11:08 |
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| StyXman | k | 11:25 |
| Jaffa | freemangordon: Yes, even for apps which aren't websites | 11:30 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: If you have a moment could you explain to me how you eneded up with the values for : | 11:30 |
| vi_ | /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_async | 11:31 |
| vi_ | and | 11:31 |
| vi_ | /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync? | 11:31 |
| vi_ | they are a little above default. | 11:31 |
| vi_ | Did you simply conclude that by increasing nr_requests you should have longer fifo timeoput? | 11:31 |
| vi_ | ^timeout | 11:31 |
| freemangordon | Jaffa, yeah, I know that | 11:38 |
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| freemangordon | vi_, trial/error method, actually I was decompressing easy-debian while playinf with the values, no rationale behind, that is why I just left them on TMO | 11:39 |
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| vi_ | freemangordon: holy shit. | 12:16 |
| vi_ | using ramz@128MB I just decompressed an easy debian image in < 1 minute. | 12:16 |
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| teotwaki | holy fucking crap | 12:55 |
| teotwaki | We have a winner | 12:55 |
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| teotwaki | in the search of the worst candidacy possible, I demand SIFO | 12:56 |
| teotwaki | Whose message, the whole message, was simply "any device". | 12:56 |
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| aparaatti | what are these other chanels for device pitching? | 13:10 |
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| chem|st | aparaatti: please elaborate | 13:10 |
| aparaatti | chem|st:: there is the competition for which is allocated part of n950:s so where do the rest go? :) | 13:11 |
| chem|st | it is written somewhere, 25 comunity awards 25 coding competition 25 Qt-devel and 25 somewhere... | 13:12 |
| chem|st | or like that | 13:12 |
| aparaatti | so what are the community and Qt-devel? | 13:13 |
| aparaatti | or qt-devel mainly... | 13:13 |
| aparaatti | but ok... gotta go | 13:14 |
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| chem|st | aparaatti: community awards are 25 devices for people doing good for the community in the past, qt-devel 25 devices is nokia's way to resurrect, coding competition devices as prizes for the annual competition... | 13:18 |
| chem|st | me thinks it was on the mailinglist cannot find it... | 13:18 |
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| jozefk | I have a question about Nokia C2-01 and asking here because on #nokia channel there is nobody. I just want to change the language set on that phone and don't have any idea if that's possible to do and how? I need Serbian language on the phone. | 13:19 |
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| vi_ | jozefk: I do not know how you found this channel, however I can tell you are really barking up the wrong tree. | 13:21 |
| jozefk | somebody on #freenode told me to try here | 13:22 |
| teotwaki | jozefk: as vi_ said, wrong channel. | 13:22 |
| vi_ | they were trolling you. | 13:22 |
| vi_ | However... | 13:22 |
| vi_ | Or they were trollling us. | 13:22 |
| jozefk | ok. sorry then | 13:22 |
| teotwaki | np | 13:22 |
| vi_ | If you change the C2 product code to the regoin that includes serbia and then reflash the phone software | 13:22 |
| vi_ | the language pack should be installed. | 13:23 |
| jozefk | vi_, you have some link with guides for example? | 13:23 |
| jozefk | can it be done on linux or win7? | 13:23 |
| chem|st | jozefk: s40 languages are preset for your region | 13:24 |
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| chem|st | ah yeah vi_ said it | 13:24 |
| jozefk | ok thanks for that info too | 13:25 |
| vi_ | jozefk: use windoze. | 13:25 |
| jozefk | win7 64bit I mean | 13:25 |
| vi_ | jozefk: search the net for 'nemisis service suite change product code'. | 13:25 |
| jozefk | that's what I have | 13:25 |
| jozefk | and I have linux | 13:26 |
| vi_ | that should get you started. | 13:26 |
| vi_ | jozefk: then you are fucked | 13:26 |
| vi_ | linux is for homos | 13:26 |
| jozefk | hahahahaha | 13:26 |
| vi_ | linux user==lUSER | 13:26 |
| Raimu | vi_: I've used ramz with 128MB now for two days and it's ridiculously powerful. | 13:26 |
| vi_ | Raimu: Damn, you have blown my cover. | 13:26 |
| jozefk | nemesis won't work on win7 64bit? | 13:27 |
| vi_ | jozefk: I have NFC. Like we said we are nothing to do with nokia symbian devices. | 13:27 |
| vi_ | Raimu: yeah, I think I got lucky and accidentially stumbled on the right settings. | 13:27 |
| vi_ | If I try and tweak any of those values for 128MB the whole thing starts to fail, hard. | 13:28 |
| vi_ | Raimu: as best I can tell, those settings should not work! | 13:29 |
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| vi_ | We need someone whos VM tuning and iostat to explain why it works. | 13:29 |
| vi_ | (or at least I do) | 13:30 |
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| jacekowski | jozefk: there are two ways of doing it | 13:34 |
| jacekowski | jozefk: but you need phonenix for both | 13:34 |
| jacekowski | jozefk: phoenix* | 13:34 |
| jacekowski | jozefk: one involves changing product code to serbian version of it and flashing firmware for that product code | 13:34 |
| jacekowski | jozefk: and then language will stay when you upgrade through pc suite | 13:35 |
| jozefk | where to get phoenix and all other required things? | 13:35 |
| jacekowski | jozefk: or you have to just flash required language pack | 13:35 |
| jacekowski | changing product code pretty much voids your warranty | 13:35 |
| jacekowski | flashing additonal language packs not so much | 13:36 |
| jozefk | I don't care about warranty :) I like the more simple and faster way of getting serbian language on it | 13:36 |
| jozefk | but I have no XP | 13:36 |
| jozefk | only Win7 64bit | 13:36 |
| jozefk | and linux | 13:36 |
| jacekowski | get winxp then | 13:37 |
| jozefk | if that's the only one way I will just go to some repairing shop instead and ask them to do it for me :) pay them some money and finish. | 13:38 |
| vi_ | jacekowski: You can use 'nemisis suite' which is far simpler program than phoenix. | 13:38 |
| vi_ | To change product code with just a USB cable. Then you use nokia suite to update to whatever firmware you want. | 13:39 |
| vi_ | AFAIK phoenix requires all sorts of funky hardware. | 13:39 |
| jozefk | nemesis for S40 phones? | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | vi_: no it doesn't | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | vi_: phoenix can work with just usb cable | 13:40 |
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| chem|st | Estel_: I just made up my mind about those nokia device seeding, don't you think that "standard coders" should be not eligible as there are 75 devices for coding-only?! | 13:46 |
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| chem|st | Estel_: meaning CA devices for non-coders and coders with community projects like KP CSSU e.a. - only | 13:47 |
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| vi_ | So does this mean my ITT thanks and MO karma are finally going to be useful? | 13:48 |
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| Hurrian | vi_, I think that was the point of the CA | 13:52 |
| chem|st | vi_: if council decides to do as I propose, maybe ;) | 13:52 |
| vi_ | Finally, everything is coming up millhouse! | 13:52 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: well if they include weekend-worrior-coders and weight that above non-coders, no non-coders apart of (I guess) 3 will get a device | 13:53 |
| vi_ | does scriptor==coder? | 13:54 |
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| chem|st | coders who turned their back to the community and got aware of the CA (and applied) should get something huge shoved up their behind | 13:55 |
| * chem|st is looking for his firefighter-boots | 13:56 | |
| vi_ | chem|st: finally, you and I can agree on something. | 13:56 |
| chem|st | vi_: lol we agree alot you just don't recognize | 13:56 |
| Hurrian | chem|st, depends what you mean on turning their back on the community | 13:56 |
| vi_ | Hurrian: For example, if Titan turned up and said. Yo, dawgs I heard u like My power kernel. N9 now plox. | 13:57 |
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| chem|st | my way of discussing or entering discussions for maemo is biased by the fact that I like to at least pretend to have an opposite position and want to save $user lives | 13:57 |
| vi_ | Or Matan appeared and said 'I more or less invented CSSU, an n950 is essential to my needs.' | 13:57 |
| vi_ | Or Revdkathy. | 13:58 |
| Hurrian | ah. | 13:58 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: well, leaving it behind, coding some fancy tool but stopped looking out for >1year | 13:58 |
| vi_ | 'I have not actually been involved in over a year now, howver I herd there were som free fonez. I can have?' | 13:59 |
| Hurrian | but basically, you want the coders to be left out of the CA? | 13:59 |
| chem|st | I do not know why n950s are essential to his needs in terms of cssu... or does he mean cssu for harmattan? | 13:59 |
| Hurrian | (definition of coders being people who have published packages on the repos/store/etc) | 14:00 |
| vi_ | Hurrian: I think he means not taking coding into account when evaluating and entry for CA | 14:00 |
| Hurrian | ah | 14:00 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: at least those who did just port/code some apps | 14:00 |
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| vi_ | chem|st: How do you even quantify a 'coder' anyway. | 14:00 |
| Hurrian | makes sense. | 14:00 |
| chem|st | there are many coders heavily involved with the community which should be eligible | 14:00 |
| Hurrian | vi_, yeah, that's a problem: package support does intermingle with community involement | 14:01 |
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| chem|st | when it comes to that the list is very short and most of them are in here... | 14:01 |
| vi_ | For example, is a person who contributes scripts a coder? | 14:01 |
| vi_ | It is all very vague. | 14:02 |
| vi_ | WHat I am hoping is the council will be able to spread the nokia loot as widely among the active members of TMO as possible. | 14:02 |
| jozefk | jacekowski, http://www.articlecms.in/3893-how-to-flash-nokia-phones-using-phoenix-service-software.html#.T8dK-P7X-Jo | 14:03 |
| chem|st | vi_: no it is not, a coder who did not get involved with this community apart of posting an tmo announcement about his app and porting like 10 apps would be not eligible | 14:03 |
| vi_ | And no, I do not mean the eipc android thread. | 14:03 |
| jozefk | is that looks like a nice guide? | 14:03 |
| chem|st | well there are 100 devices, 75 for coders only... | 14:03 |
| Hurrian | vi_, or the "halp how do i flash n900 after installing speedpatch" | 14:04 |
| Hurrian | "halp can you send me webos games" | 14:04 |
| chem|st | coders doing CSSU or KP or something alike wont ever get one of those 75 so they should be elegible for the 25 by CA | 14:04 |
| vi_ | 25 devices or 24 n950s? | 14:05 |
| vi_ | ^25 | 14:05 |
| chem|st | I think its 10 n950s and 15 n9s | 14:05 |
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| Hurrian | chem|st, that's right | 14:05 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: which part? | 14:06 |
| Hurrian | # of devices for CA | 14:06 |
| chem|st | devices or CSSU? | 14:06 |
| chem|st | ok | 14:06 |
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| vi_ | chem|st: are you able to delete tmo accounts? | 14:06 |
| chem|st | I have hard feelings about someone porting 25 apps/whatever getting one of those 25 CA devices! | 14:06 |
| chem|st | vi_: depends | 14:07 |
| chem|st | in general yes | 14:07 |
| vi_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1215426#post1215426 | 14:07 |
| chem|st | but we prefer reggie handling deletion requests | 14:07 |
| vi_ | fair enough | 14:07 |
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| chem|st | vi_: I removed his post but didn't clean out; however, opened a moderator ticket | 14:14 |
| chem|st | so he is currently invisible to $user | 14:15 |
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| chem|st | vi_: "council corruption scandal" nice one | 14:23 |
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| chem|st | Estel_: AND someone should get only a device if not getting one of the 75 coder-only devices! | 14:31 |
| chem|st | at least pretend to be fair... | 14:32 |
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| chem|st | vi_: what do you think? | 14:35 |
| chem|st | Hurrian: you too | 14:35 |
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| vi_ | I think it is pretty obvious. | 15:02 |
| vi_ | You can't give someone 2 prizes. | 15:02 |
| vi_ | That would suck asses. | 15:02 |
| vi_ | For everyone else. | 15:02 |
| Hurrian | chem|st, shouldn't it be one prize per person? | 15:02 |
| Hurrian | >1 prize per person for lots of people with 100 phones to give out would be boo | 15:02 |
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| chem|st | vi_: Hurrian that's what I think too, but it seems council thinks different, at least Estel_ said to a devel that if he gets an n950 from the coder75 he could still get a n9 from CA25 | 15:06 |
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| Hurrian | isnt the point of the CA25 is so that the people who aren't qualified for the coder75 (but still essential parts of the Maemo community who actually contribute well) to be rewarded for their efforts (and thus motivated to stay) | 15:08 |
| Hurrian | the more good people we can keep happy and tinkering with Maemo, the longer we can probably stay together | 15:09 |
| vi_ | chem|st: in effect 1 user getting 2 prizes? Fuck right off. | 15:09 |
| chem|st | that's the idea, that is why I would say coders apart from those mentioned should not get a device from CA25 | 15:09 |
| vi_ | People should be allowed to enter as many catagories as they see fit, however they should recieve at maximum 1 prize. | 15:10 |
| chem|st | agreed | 15:10 |
| vi_ | Otherwise you will find your small selection of prizes going to few people. | 15:10 |
| chem|st | which community coding efforts do we have besides CSSU and KP? | 15:10 |
| vi_ | And I can assure you, this will not kindle good will. | 15:10 |
| vi_ | None that I can think off, however CSSU encompasses a lot of smaller pieces. | 15:11 |
| chem|st | nice comment again (email, those guys are nuts... you are never anonymous in the internet if not using TOR onion or alike properly) | 15:12 |
| jacekowski | tor has been broken | 15:13 |
| chem|st | for cssu, maintainers and direct efforts count in my opinion | 15:13 |
| jacekowski | and saying that, i'm against anonymity | 15:13 |
| jacekowski | in the way people want it | 15:13 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: right | 15:14 |
| jacekowski | internet access should be limited | 15:14 |
| chem|st | people want anonymity to do what ever they want without getting charged | 15:14 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: ok now you'r going crazy... ;) | 15:14 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: unfortunately most ys | 15:15 |
| jacekowski | yes* | 15:15 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: it would solve spam problem | 15:15 |
| chem|st | I want anonymity to not have google/microsoft/$company know everything about me just by me being online | 15:15 |
| jacekowski | i agree with that | 15:16 |
| chem|st | I don't want to be anonymous in here on the other hand | 15:16 |
| jacekowski | but i don't want for somebody to be able to do what they want without any responsibility | 15:16 |
| jacekowski | when somebody starts spamming on irc then he should be hit by a banhammer and never allowed to see internet again | 15:17 |
| chem|st | ;) | 15:17 |
| chem|st | as long as there are operatingsystems with holes big as I could fit in a horse there will be troyans and botnets... | 15:18 |
| jacekowski | it should be user responsibility | 15:19 |
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| Hurrian | jacekowski, the problem is people don't behave | 15:19 |
| Hurrian | that goes for both sides of the argument | 15:19 |
| jacekowski | Hurrian: then they wouldn't be allowed to see internet | 15:19 |
| Raimu | Not if there isn't something that makes them behave. | 15:19 |
| jacekowski | simple and effective | 15:20 |
| Raimu | The threat of losing public standing or getting punched in the face is enough to keep most people civil in face-to-face communication. | 15:20 |
| jacekowski | threat of never being able to go to facebook.com would be probably the same for most people | 15:20 |
| chem|st | vi_: please stop the trollfeeding! | 15:20 |
| vi_ | -_- | 15:21 |
| vi_ | I have a problem. | 15:21 |
| Hurrian | >account gets hacked, spammer spams, user is banned off the internet | 15:21 |
| Hurrian | wat do | 15:21 |
| Raimu | http://swingnews.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory1.jpg | 15:21 |
| vi_ | Raimu: classic | 15:21 |
| Raimu | Yes. | 15:21 |
| vi_ | Raimu: and I did not even open the link. | 15:21 |
| Hurrian | you're only doing this if you can 100% tie everybody to their internet face | 15:22 |
| Raimu | Yes, just mention John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and people in the know raise eyebrows approvingly. | 15:22 |
| vi_ | I showed that to Mrs vi_ last night to try and explain why the news story on the bbc about girl gamers being targeted for abuse was BS. | 15:22 |
| Hurrian | Raimu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect | 15:22 |
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| Raimu | Hurrian, yes. | 15:24 |
| Hurrian | vi_, people openly mention their genders on very large, open-access discussion forums? | 15:24 |
| Raimu | vi, my missus trolls horny guys on sex chats. | 15:24 |
| Raimu | So far it sounds like a worthwhile fire-with-fire cause. | 15:25 |
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| aparaatti | I seriously suspect that lumiaman is in tmo to make bad blood, he makes no sense | 15:30 |
| chem|st | aparaatti: link pls | 15:31 |
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| chem|st | aparaatti: there is a thread about the devices sed http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84322 | 15:32 |
| aparaatti | stuff like that: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1207203#post1207203 | 15:32 |
| aparaatti | ty | 15:32 |
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| vi_ | aparaatti: Yes, however he does not actually cause any problems. | 15:33 |
| Hurrian | aparaatti, registering with a name "Lumiaman", openly promoting Lumias, which the community staunchly dislikes, and starting shit on tmo? | 15:33 |
| Hurrian | does raise red flags. | 15:33 |
| vi_ | You always have to have some guy playing devils advocate. | 15:33 |
| vi_ | remember it is TMO, not XDA. | 15:34 |
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| aparaatti | what is xda? | 15:34 |
| vi_ | XDA is where good intentions go to die. | 15:34 |
| Hurrian | aparaatti, some huge forum for every device ever made. yes, the dev to idiot ratio is insane. | 15:34 |
| Hurrian | i do mean /huge/ | 15:34 |
| vi_ | XDA developers is a forum mostly specialising in android devices. | 15:35 |
| vi_ | it is almost the polar opposite of TMO. | 15:35 |
| vi_ | It is a complete toilet of a forum. | 15:35 |
| vi_ | Maybe 1 notch above 'ipmart' | 15:35 |
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| Hurrian | every major smartphone non-nokia and non-palm from the past 7 years or so has a subforum | 15:35 |
| vi_ | Hurrian: yet no maemo sub-forum. | 15:36 |
| vi_ | What are they afraid of? | 15:36 |
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| vi_ | XDA-they bicker over which appz to bandaid a problem. | 15:37 |
| vi_ | TMO-they bicker over which scipting langueage to use to bandaid a problem. | 15:37 |
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| chem|st | vi_: aparaatti I admonished him, next time I make it count... | 15:42 |
| chem|st | sounds like a pissed off fanboy | 15:42 |
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| chem|st | do we need twitter accounts thread sticky? | 15:43 |
| chem|st | twitter is another form of XDA to me | 15:43 |
| chem|st | XDA with filtering support^^ | 15:44 |
| Raimu | OT: http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/392380_3645934780207_1029526329_3281305_2046772520_n.jpg these EULAs are getting worse all the time. | 15:46 |
| chem|st | ehrm warranty void if unpacked? | 15:46 |
| Hurrian | :o | 15:47 |
| jaska | you only get a warranty for the cardboard box :) | 15:48 |
| chem|st | hehe | 15:49 |
| Raimu | They've realized SSDs are bought for extreme penile compensation and they've calculated that just having the box on your bookshelf will suffice. | 15:49 |
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| chem|st | now all device program threads are sticky, still the question if we need twitter thread | 15:56 |
| vi_ | no | 15:56 |
| vi_ | twitter is fake. And gay. | 15:57 |
| chem|st | dated sticky threads back from 2010... those mods aren't what they used to be anymore^^ | 15:59 |
| chem|st | unstickied! | 16:00 |
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| chem|st | now he is starting me... lumiaman posted my PM... | 16:14 |
| vi_ | I swa. | 16:14 |
| vi_ | ^saw | 16:15 |
| vi_ | I lolled. | 16:15 |
| chem|st | being called police everytime you make someone aware of being out-of-line makes me sicki | 16:15 |
| chem|st | sick | 16:15 |
| vi_ | Fuckit, he is a douche. It is the price you pay when you are in a position of authority. | 16:17 |
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| aparaatti | :) sorry | 16:18 |
| chem|st | at least I got aware of a thread being in general ment to be in off-topic^^ | 16:19 |
| chem|st | what has nokia stock to do with maemo... | 16:19 |
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| Macer | heh | 16:20 |
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| dafox | in which country is that eula even valid/legal? | 16:58 |
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| teotwaki | dafox: none, as far as I can tell. | 17:20 |
| vi_ | It seems quite reasonable to me, | 17:20 |
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| vi_ | Samsung can no longer guarantee the quality of this box after some spacker has spam fistedly tried to open it. | 17:21 |
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| ArchGT | hello, I just installed the kernel for power users but now I don't have cellular network | 18:37 |
| ArchGT | I guess that's not the expected behavior | 18:37 |
| Raimu | freemangordon: *ping* | 18:38 |
| Raimu | ^^^ | 18:38 |
| Raimu | ArchGT: Do you have tweaking apps, own-made scripts or the like that should be mentioned now, installed? | 18:39 |
| Raimu | Or a really steep overclock? | 18:40 |
| ArchGT | Raimu: no, I reflashed the os a couple days ago | 18:40 |
| ArchGT | barely a few apps beyond stock | 18:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ow. | 18:41 |
| Raimu | That's good. Hmm, I can't recall offhand what logs would be useful now. Stick around on the IRC channel and the maintainer'll pop up. | 18:41 |
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| ArchGT | Raimu: ok, thanks | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | i hadn't realised it had crashed that far. Stock price had been ~5 for most of last year, and it's now half that in the last 3 months | 18:41 |
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| ArchGT | Raimu: ¿who's the maintainer? | 18:41 |
| ArchGT | so I can ask when I see him | 18:41 |
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| chem|st | ArchGT: he will come back to you! was already "pinged" | 18:44 |
| ArchGT | heh | 18:45 |
| ArchGT | chem|st, Raimu: thanks | 18:45 |
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| vi_ | ArchGT: are you sure you do not have offline mode on? | 19:01 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, one of the qulifiers on CA is that those going for the other awards (or past award recipients) can't get a CA device. It would be easier to guarantee if CA were after the competitions, but I'm pretty sure quim is seeing to it that the other competitions have the same clause. | 19:02 |
| ArchGT | xD | 19:03 |
| ArchGT | vi_: no, I have already done offline/online switching | 19:03 |
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| Woody14619 | ArchGT, are you sure it's not a contact issue? (eg did you try to paper-wedge trick?) Also, when you flashed, did you flash a full fiasco image? Was it for the correct region? If it was for the wrong region the GSM firmware may not be liking life. There are lots of TMO posts of people flashing region 2/3 devices with global firmware with the same issue. | 19:06 |
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| vi_ | ArchGT: is there even an error message? | 19:07 |
| vi_ | like a picture of a sim card with a red line through it? | 19:07 |
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| ArchGT | Woody14619: I have not tried the paper wedge because cellular was lost right after the kernel install but I can try I guess. Then the flashing went ok but I did not use the "right" image I flashed with the international version. However that was two days ago so, why now? | 19:09 |
| ArchGT | vi_: no error | 19:09 |
| Woody14619 | ArchGT, Flashing the wrong region is a bad idea usually. Changing from a custom (eg vodaphone) to an open one is normally ok, as long as you match the region. | 19:11 |
| Woody14619 | ArchGT, so I'm confused a little: If there's no sim card with a red line, what's not working? Can it make calls? Send sms? Is GPRS/data not working? | 19:12 |
| ArchGT | Woody14619: I'mm booting after doing the paper thing | 19:13 |
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| Woody14619 | K. :) | 19:13 |
| Woody14619 | Keep an eye out for a yellow pop-up banner. | 19:13 |
| ArchGT | Woody14619: and no sim card icon, just a error message about "no cellular network" -but in spanish- when i try to make a phone call | 19:13 |
| ArchGT | and in connections the 3g/gprs network doesn't show up | 19:14 |
| Woody14619 | Often if there's trouble with a sim it tells you something like "unable to register with network" at start up. | 19:14 |
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| Woody14619 | Hmm.. See, that's not a N900 talking to sim issue, that's a sim talking to network issue. | 19:14 |
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| ArchGT | Woody14619: I didn't get any error at boot | 19:15 |
| ArchGT | now or the past few times | 19:15 |
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| Woody14619 | You can always try reverting to Nokia kernel (via the app installed by KP) and see if that fixes it? But I susspect it something going on with your provider, not your device. | 19:16 |
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| ArchGT | Woody14619: I have another phone at hand, I'm going to try the sim on that phone | 19:17 |
| Woody14619 | Almost sounds like the provider turned your sim off. | 19:17 |
| ArchGT | crap | 19:17 |
| Woody14619 | Another possability: Where/when did you get this N900? Was it recent? | 19:17 |
| ArchGT | they don't like me | 19:17 |
| Raimu | You've been disconnected from the service provider? | 19:18 |
| Woody14619 | Well, at least you know it's not a broken n900? ;) Sims are easy to replace. | 19:18 |
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| ArchGT | Woody14619: actually this n900 history is quite long, I bought it from amazon, a couple of years ago. Then it stopped recognizing the sim so it went back to nokia | 19:18 |
| ArchGT | they repaired the thing but it didn't got quite right | 19:19 |
| ArchGT | it doesn't charge the battery now | 19:19 |
| ArchGT | but since I love the device I don't want to stop using it | 19:19 |
| Raimu | How do you charge the battery? :) | 19:20 |
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| ArchGT | Raimu: a 10$ charger from ebay | 19:20 |
| Woody14619 | ArchGT: that sucks. :( My concern was if it was recent that maybe it's IMEI was registered stolen. That would cause a provider to drop you. | 19:20 |
| ArchGT | heh | 19:20 |
| Raimu | Reminds me of the frail USB manufacturing defect. | 19:20 |
| ArchGT | I just made a call with the sim on another phone | 19:22 |
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| Raimu | I see. | 19:24 |
| Raimu | I suppose you've tried cleaning the SIM card's conductive surface and stuff like that? | 19:25 |
| Woody14619 | I'd try moving back to standard kernel & see if that brings you back. I doubt it. But even then, mixing hardware regions from flash images is begging for problems. | 19:25 |
| Raimu | If there has been a persistent problem before with the SIM card reader part of your n900, it could be it's just breaking completely now. | 19:26 |
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| Raimu | ArchGT: Do you remember -- did you get to make any calls or SMSes or something after you installed kernel-power? | 19:26 |
| ArchGT | Raimu: not one single call | 19:30 |
| ArchGT | I installed the kernel today at 6 am, then powerdown, powerup | 19:30 |
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| vi__ | Nher royal highnes head crab? | 20:07 |
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| Estel_ | chem|st, don't worry, whole CA idea is about prizes not only for devs... | 20:22 |
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| Estel_ | it mean that if someone is dv but his community pqaryticipation is only via posting small annoucement on tmo, he won't get device | 20:22 |
| Estel_ | btw, who said starting in CC, qt5 and Nokia store disqualify from CA? | 20:23 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, in fact it's the opposite. Former prizes disqualify. | 20:24 |
| Estel_ | if, for example - hyphoteticaly - qwazix get device from CA due to his deeds for community, he dcan get one from qt5mas well | 20:24 |
| vi__ | Estel_: but that suscks | 20:25 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, that's what I said. | 20:25 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, past recipients can't get a CA device. | 20:26 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619, they can if it is not the sae, i.e. if you got n950 you can get N9 | 20:26 |
| Woody14619 | vi__: Why would you say that sucks? Someone should be able to get multiple free N9s? | 20:26 |
| freemangordon | *same | 20:26 |
| freemangordon | AIUI | 20:26 |
| Woody14619 | freemangordon, yes, that's corret. | 20:26 |
| vi__ | Woody14619: I am saying they should not. | 20:27 |
| vi__ | A person should be allowed to enter as many catogories as they wish but only eligable to win 1 prize. | 20:28 |
| freemangordon | vi__, that is what has been agreed on mailing list | 20:28 |
| vi__ | oh | 20:28 |
| vi__ | then wtf are we arguing about? | 20:28 |
| freemangordon | has been/was | 20:28 |
| freemangordon | NFC, just woke up :D | 20:28 |
| vi__ | if, for example - hyphoteticaly - qwazix get device from CA due to his deeds for community, he dcan get one from qt5mas well | 20:29 |
| vi__ | ^then what does this mean? | 20:29 |
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| freemangordon | if qwazix gets n950 from CA he cannot get n950 from QT but can get N9. Both are devices :P | 20:30 |
| Estel_ | yea | 20:30 |
| vi__ | so an entrant CAN get more than 1 device then? | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619, correct? | 20:30 |
| Estel_ | correct freemangordon | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | vi__, sure thing | 20:30 |
| Woody14619 | who's arguing? | 20:30 |
| Estel_ | samde for N9 from CA and N950 from qt5 | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | NFC :D. I am still having my coffee :P | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619 ^^^ | 20:31 |
| vi__ | But that means that there will be fewer people with prizes at the end. | 20:31 |
| Estel_ | morning freemangordon ;) | 20:31 |
| vi__ | Therefore less good will. | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | yeah, morning | 20:31 |
| Estel_ | vi_, You would like sifo to get one? | 20:31 |
| vi__ | I have no say in the matter. | 20:31 |
| Estel_ | vi_, if someone qualifies in both categories and is recognized by both... | 20:32 |
| Estel_ | vi_, if someone qualifies in both categories and is recognized by both... | 20:32 |
| Estel_ | ops | 20:32 |
| vi__ | then he has a double chance of winning. | 20:32 |
| * Woody14619 doubts CA is going to generate anything but bitching and bad things for the community, and has througth this since it was introduced (before being elected) | 20:32 | |
| Estel_ | Council have nothing to do with qt5 and nokia store | 20:33 |
| freemangordon | vi__, bat what if he deserves one? | 20:33 |
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| Estel_ | Woody14619, it is going to generate, erm, smile on face of long-term contributors to community | 20:33 |
| Estel_ | instead of ugly ironic smile on face of people claiming what they will do after receiving N950 and dissapearing week after | 20:34 |
| Estel_ | :P | 20:34 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619, while you may be right, how exactly merlin1991 will have a chance to get a device if not through CA? | 20:34 |
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| freemangordon | for example | 20:34 |
| Estel_ | qt5 and nokia store - especially the latter - isn't even Maemo related | 20:34 |
| Woody14619 | vi__, Here's the thing. the coding compeatitions all give awards *after* CA is over. We won't know who gets what from competitions. If you're concerened that someone will get 2, you need to talk to someone in charge of those competitions to fix their rules... | 20:34 |
| Estel_ | Nokia can give their prizes whenever they want, but CA is our thing for our contributors | 20:35 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, whatch what you're writing here, it is Maemo6 :P | 20:35 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, :P | 20:35 |
| Estel_ | and winphone is maemo7 | 20:35 |
| Woody14619 | work calls, brb | 20:35 |
| Estel_ | see ya | 20:35 |
| vi__ | I am not making a fuss. I just felt that the most people getting the most prizes would be the most desireable outcome. | 20:36 |
| freemangordon | FB RE calls, bb | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | vi_, of course, but only if theydeserve it | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | do You see more than 25 people deserving CA prizes? | 20:36 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I do not know. | 20:36 |
| vi__ | But I can think of at least 10 | 20:37 |
| Estel_ | btw what was that "corruption in council" thread, You've saved good laugh from me :( | 20:37 |
| Estel_ | no topic when I tried it | 20:37 |
| vi__ | ha | 20:37 |
| Estel_ | short summary, pls? | 20:37 |
| Estel_ | btw, vi | 20:37 |
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| vi__ | it was the CA thread | 20:38 |
| vi__ | in response to some dumb stuff some people where suggesting. | 20:38 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, ^^^ | 20:38 |
| vi__ | Estel_: did you try compcache yet? | 20:38 |
| freemangordon | vi__, BTW how that develops? | 20:39 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: I got lucky. | 20:39 |
| freemangordon | you win the pot? | 20:39 |
| Estel_ | vi_, not yet | 20:39 |
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| Estel_ | vi_, why You're using 50 nicknames, I query You just to notice that it doesn't arrived in proper address | 20:40 |
| vi__ | I am utterly unable to tweak the values to any extent without the whole thing grinding to a halt. | 20:40 |
| vi__ | Estel_: 50 nicknames, what? | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | vi_, I'm quite afraid those settings will work only for specific user case | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | You're here as vi_ , then vi__ | 20:40 |
| Estel_ | and probably vi____ too | 20:41 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: I do not understand how the settings I accidentally used work. I have read about VM tuning a lot in the last 3 days and from what I can see these VM settings do not make any sense. | 20:41 |
| vi__ | however everyone who has tried them say they work. | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | vi__, but you have settings that work? | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | aaah | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | simple - Your use case mean sitting inside zram | 20:42 |
| vi__ | Estel_: nope | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | and there are people that reported ugly problems with those settings | 20:42 |
| vi__ | well yes | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | where those settings live? | 20:42 |
| vi__ | Estel_: no | 20:42 |
| vi__ | OK | 20:42 |
| vi__ | EVERYBDY CHILL THE F OUT. | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | in compcache thread on tmo, Your own thread, freemangordon :P | 20:42 |
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| vi__ | Estel_: The 3rd set of settings I posted are fail. They are what everyone is complaining about. | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | ah, I see | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | well, there was a bunch of settings there, last time i've checked there was no any breakthrough | 20:43 |
| vi__ | Estel_: The 2nd set, in a post that starts 'by jove FMG, I think you have done it' are made of win. | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | vi__, did you update wiki entry? | 20:44 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: they are still on the 1st set of settings. They also work quite well. | 20:44 |
| Estel_ | honestly, freemangordon, any idea why sane settings fail with comcache? | 20:44 |
| vi__ | they are the same as the 2nd, with a lower nr_requests. | 20:44 |
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| Estel_ | it rather looks like bug somewhere... | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, lack of free RAM | 20:45 |
| vi__ | about 3996 nr_requests less. | 20:45 |
| Estel_ | with 64 zram? | 20:45 |
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| freemangordon | yes | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | it is about 32MB of RAM | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | less | 20:45 |
| Estel_ | shouldn't be much of a problem, as we have 128 swap in ram? | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | but we don't have RAM for executable pages | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | so why it work on N800 with even less ram | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | and why executables can't live in zram | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | well, that is a wikd guess, never traced that stuff as thumb2 looks more promising to me :P | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, because they are never swapped, just evicted from PGE | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | honestly I doubt we have 200+ MB of executabes | 20:46 |
| Estel_ | ok, understood | 20:47 |
| freemangordon | page table, or whatever was the kernel term | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | still I don't think we have so much executables in ram | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | judging by my ram usage without zram | 20:47 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, when kernel gets a page missing exceptio, it re-reads its content from the executable image | 20:47 |
| Estel_ | it's super strange, as zram is known for providing huge benefit on old notebooks with 64 mb RAM total | 20:48 |
| Estel_ | Your rationale sounds reasonable... | 20:49 |
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| Estel_ | But I just don't buy that it works on N800 and every other device well - even with low ram... | 20:49 |
| vi__ | Estel_: try this. | 20:49 |
| vi__ | http://slexy.org/view/s2EZkIubXX | 20:49 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: chill da f out, let him try it... | 20:49 |
| Estel_ | and doesn't work for our 256 ram | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, the kernel is not the same, I wond bi surprozed we have some bug in 2.6.28 | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | yea. | 20:50 |
| freemangordon | *wont be surprized | 20:50 |
| vi__ | Estel_: whoops, cratch that | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | that is what I'm thinking about | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | vi_, whats the point of setting whatever_ratio and whatever_background_ratio to same number | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, you can ask on Ubuntu 12.04 thread on TMO someone to try it with 2.6.37 | 20:51 |
| Estel_ | very essence of those settings is that they should be different numbers | 20:51 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, ok | 20:51 |
| vi__ | Estel_: try this: | 20:51 |
| vi__ | http://slexy.org/view/s20mtq4yIo | 20:51 |
| Estel_ | I tend to agree, that it sounds like kernel bug | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | though I think it was 3.2 where that swap trashing was fixed | 20:52 |
| vi__ | remember to swapoff/swapon you current swap to sort the priorities out. | 20:52 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_, there is some i/o speed regression starting from 2.6.17 or something which lives happily until 3.2 or 3.3 | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | vi_, I'm afraid to turn those on :P looks like lottery - will work blazing fast, until You hit case of REAL swap activity | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | then You're doomed | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | tried it with easy debian? | 20:53 |
| vi__ | Estel_: no. | 20:53 |
| vi__ | ask hurrian | 20:53 |
| Estel_ | run chromium or iceweasel with 10 tabs or more, even tmo only | 20:53 |
| vi__ | He tried it. | 20:54 |
| freemangordon | there is 3 years old bug agains kernel on bugzilla, still open AFAIK | 20:54 |
| Estel_ | judging bu nr_request | 20:54 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I said it makes no sense. | 20:54 |
| vi__ | Estel_: just try it. | 20:54 |
| Estel_ | if You hit huge swap trashing, You can as good reboot device | 20:54 |
| Estel_ | ok, on 2nd device :P | 20:54 |
| vi__ | Estel_: !! | 20:54 |
| Estel_ | I'm cowardly refusing to try it on main device that is providing me radio, xchat and contact with world :P | 20:55 |
| freemangordon | I am brave, going to try it :P | 20:55 |
| Estel_ | then open easy debian - even without lxde - and, I don't know, chromium with few pages | 20:56 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_, ok | 20:56 |
| vi__ | or you could try a more normal load. | 20:57 |
| vi__ | like 6 browser windows. | 20:57 |
| vi__ | sygic | 20:58 |
| vi__ | image viewer | 20:58 |
| vi__ | conversations+6 conversations | 20:58 |
| vi__ | while playing mp3 through OMP | 20:58 |
| freemangordon | vi__, I have io scheduler timeouts tweaked, is that a problem? | 20:58 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: I do not know. Anytime I touch those fifo timeouts it all goes to shit for me. | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | :D | 20:59 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: I have also left io quantum at the default 4 | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | vi__, in theory those should not affect CC in any way, as those are parameters for uSD | 21:00 |
| vi__ | yes | 21:00 |
| vi__ | Sorry, I am talking about when you filled CC | 21:00 |
| vi__ | and you are REALLY swapping in real life | 21:00 |
| vi__ | as it were | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | aaah, ok. my settings are amongs the best for that scenario | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | :P | 21:01 |
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| * Woody14619 hates to leave, but have a real life meeting... so want to see how this works out though. :) | 21:01 | |
| freemangordon | ok, 225896 of swap before starting lxde | 21:02 |
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| vi__ | you notice no differance? | 21:03 |
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| Estel_ | vi_, I think that Your swap is so-called "inactive" swap | 21:06 |
| freemangordon | vi__, not sure, I need to run those for at least a day to have a deffinite answer | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | i.e. things that get swapped long time ago and never touched | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | and zYou "active" swap - i.e. only one that is constantly paged to and out of ram - is less than zram | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | that's why those settings work for You well | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | try easy debian for "real" memory hogs :P | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | microB isn't good testbed | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | try chromium or iceweasel with few tabs opened | 21:07 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, web browser in ED runs fine | 21:07 |
| vi__ | normal n900 use is not good testbed? | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | and loading new content | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | vi_, - no, as there is no such thing as *normal* | 21:08 |
| freemangordon | let me try open office while the browser is active | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | for me normal thing is to use chromium with plentora tabs opened | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | and spellchecking add-ons enabled :P | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | lazarus caching my test in case of any ooops | 21:08 |
| freemangordon | hmm, the shit is pretty responsive | 21:09 |
| vi__ | HA | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | ok, need to test it myself | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | :P | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | but still, as vi___ said, those settings are nonsense :P | 21:10 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, yeah, i am not mush in easy debian | 21:10 |
| vi__ | the point is before ramz=epic lag fest | 21:10 |
| vi__ | now ramz=good | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | vi__, will try it on main device later | 21:10 |
| vi__ | these settings are a good starting point. | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | You convinced me :P | 21:11 |
| vi__ | However as I have said. I do not understand why. | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | I'll try to check wtf | 21:11 |
| freemangordon | loading FB while open office writer is opened too | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | seems like task for tonight | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | FB - ultimate memory hog :P | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | with 128 MB of zram | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | afk for now | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | damn. I cannot enter @ | 21:13 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: on ED? | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | my keyboard mapping is screwed up | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | yep | 21:13 |
| vi__ | same here | 21:13 |
| vi__ | none of my cursor keys work | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | cannot enter my email address | 21:14 |
| vi__ | neither does esc or tab | 21:14 |
| vi__ | massive pain in the testes | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, try blue arrow + shift + space | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | and for having Your own keymap | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | cp /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 /.debian/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/ | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | then, in ed | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | setxkbmap <Your language code> | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | = same hardware keyboard config in ED as in Maemo | 21:16 |
| vi__ | Estel_: ORLY??? | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | but as you all now I am smart, i used OO writer "insert special char" functionality :P | 21:16 |
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| vi__ | hah! | 21:16 |
| vi__ | Estel_: how to make lxterm in ED respect my .profile and .bashrc? | 21:16 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, 100% CPU load | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | for the last minute or so | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | :( | 21:20 |
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| freemangordon | aah, finally, it dropped | 21:20 |
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| vi__ | bah | 21:21 |
| freemangordon | but only for a while, and according to iostat there is a massive io going on my swap partition | 21:21 |
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| vi__ | well I am convinced that for normal use, it might work quite well. | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | yeah, [mmcqd] and [kswapd0] are the top processes according to top :( | 21:23 |
| vi__ | EPIC SWAPPAGE | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | vi__, or swap trashing if we should yse the correct word :P | 21:23 |
| vi__ | I guess asking to load the most hogging web site you can think of at the same time as a full desktop word processor is just too much for the phone. | 21:24 |
| vi__ | on a desktop browser. | 21:24 |
| vi__ | I quit. | 21:24 |
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| vi__ | I am going to android. | 21:24 |
| freemangordon | :D | 21:24 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | vi__: s/her/his s/head/horseshoe | 21:27 |
| freemangordon | vi__, but it really seems those setings are ok for a "normal" usage, will keep them for a while and will report | 21:27 |
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| freemangordon | no, they are not :( | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | vi__, sorry, no joy | 21:31 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: it has all gone to cock? | 21:31 |
| vi__ | meh | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | no, but it swaps constantly | 21:31 |
| chem|st | vi__: meh | 21:31 |
| ShadowJK | if we could use ramzswap with backing swap, and add a layer to reorder write requests, it might work fast fast | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | A nice reordering swap would be awesome. | 21:32 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: well it is a good starting point. | 21:32 |
| freemangordon | i closed ED, opened opera (through phoneme) and facebook in microb, and it swaps all the time | 21:32 |
| chem|st | vi__: the start of your email was good but you should not pretend to be a god... just be :) | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | reordering/defragmenting | 21:32 |
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| vi__ | chem|st: It was supposed to be tongue in cheek. | 21:32 |
| freemangordon | have in mind that i use that every day, keeping opera in background with a book opened, while browsing with microb | 21:33 |
| freemangordon | vi__, 128MB is just too much | 21:34 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil; ramzswap with backing swap seems to result in mostly random write I/O. Atleast with nokia swap, it's mostly "write sequentially into largest free block" | 21:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Which works well - untill... | 21:35 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK, :nod:, and we just have to find the way to overcome that "bytes written" barrier | 21:35 |
| ShadowJK | and ramzswap without backing swap seems silly, don't you end up with least often used data there, before it overflows to regular swap? | 21:35 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: why is Estel_ telling people that they can get 2 devices from two categories? | 21:35 |
| chem|st | then? | 21:35 |
| * ShadowJK shrugs | 21:35 | |
| chem|st | vi__: and again ;) | 21:35 |
| vi__ | and again what? | 21:36 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, I think it is because the people can get 2 devices from 2 different categories :) | 21:37 |
| ShadowJK | freemangordon; it's essentially a garbage collection problem. Java tries to solve this by having a "tenured" heap, a middle heap, and a "nursery" heap, the idea being that old objects expected to persist long migrate towards tenured heap, so that in the future garbage collection can leave it alone | 21:37 |
| ShadowJK | it's a complex problem :) | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | I am wondering what will happen if we split to 3-4 partitions | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | instead of 1 | 21:39 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: you said it was discussed on the mailinglist that they can not | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | nah, you misunderstood me | 21:39 |
| vi__ | 1-4 zram partitions? | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | no, uSD | 21:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | You then need to migrate tehm at some point | 21:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | this might in principle not be too bad, as this could be scheduled | 21:41 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: k | 21:43 |
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| chem|st | Estel_: this sucks big time! | 21:43 |
| chem|st | pls discuss at council | 21:43 |
| chem|st | with quim too | 21:43 |
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| freemangordon | chem|st: [20:24] <freemangordon> if qwazix gets n950 from CA he cannot get n950 from QT but can get N9. Both are devices :P | 21:45 |
| freemangordon | that is what I said | 21:45 |
| chem|st | devels might need both n950 and n9 but that should be managed besides, devel devices... those 100 "prize" devices should get to 100 different people 75 to devs 25 to non-devs | 21:45 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, I am not the one to argue with on that matter :) | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | teotwaki: I gonna top that, just for the shits'n'giggles: "N9!" | 21:46 |
| chem|st | if nokia wants development further than that they should lend out more | 21:46 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: I was telling Estel_ | 21:47 |
| chem|st | or in general | 21:47 |
| chem|st | you ust replied in between ;) | 21:47 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, ok :) | 21:47 |
| jpinx | is it possible to install vbox on maemo on the n900 ? | 21:47 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, BTW I don't see the point devels to have N950 | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | *burrp* | 21:48 |
| chem|st | and from what I see we have <15 people elegible for commmunity devices... | 21:48 |
| chem|st | from my opinion | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | if the point is future development on Qt | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | LOL | 21:49 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: well it includes updates from nokia! | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even more of a reason to echo N9! | mail communityæmaemo.org -s "CA" | 21:49 |
| chem|st | if the n950 is outdated like google just updated their dev-device to 4.x in april... it's never gonna work out | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm for sure no developer ;-P | 21:50 |
| vi__ | No one wants an N950 for the long term nokia support... | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, so what? is is not on the field, the FW is different from N9, etc | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | indeede | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | -e | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | not that I care much, just a note | 21:50 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: you think if, you should prefer n9s over n950s? | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | the point was that if you want to develop for Harmattan you should do it on N9, not N950 | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I think you won't get any update for N950 in ... well scratch that | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you won't get any updates for *any* HARM in 12 months | 21:51 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: 1.3 is on its way I thought | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, and quite probably for both devices | 21:52 |
| chem|st | for both? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and that's end of the road then | 21:52 |
| chem|st | now you guys are confusing... | 21:52 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | i thought the n950s were long gone? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no way | 21:53 |
| chem|st | what is the diff between n950 and n9 FW wise? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | they probably got another 25k of them | 21:53 |
| HRH_H_Crab | heh | 21:53 |
| chem|st | apart of missing hardware in n950 | 21:53 |
| HRH_H_Crab | they are prob. holding on to them incase they need some money quickly. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | chem|st: the certs | 21:54 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, if you want to make a descent application, you should test it in the device it is meant for, not on a similar device. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ;-P | 21:54 |
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| freemangordon | aotherwise you can use the simulator | 21:54 |
| freemangordon | it won't make any difference | 21:54 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: ehrm I thought n9 had the certs problem... | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | plus a lot of other nice nittygritties | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err? | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I think both have a cert "problem" | 21:55 |
| * freemangordon has to go | 21:55 | |
| freemangordon | bb | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | o/ | 21:55 |
| freemangordon | yeah, this evening is the last we are allowed to smoke in the bars :( | 21:55 |
| freemangordon | and other public places | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway, there are some essential differences: screen, kbd, probably even core hw components like OMAP and companion chip | 21:56 |
| freemangordon | it is forbidden from tomorrow | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | LOL | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | next week I guess they will outlaw smoking at home here | 21:56 |
| freemangordon | I am glad I am not "here" :) | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | even Frank Zapa was glad not to live 'here' | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Zappa* | 21:57 |
| vi__ | hah | 21:58 |
| vi__ | tobacco WAS his favourite vegitable. | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-D | 21:58 |
| vi__ | The smoking ban in Scotland was the best thing that ever happened to bars here. | 21:58 |
| joga | yeah we had that too a few years back, it was overall good imo because I rarely have many sets of clothes and now I can go to bar in weekdays without reeking the next day at work! ;P | 21:59 |
| chem|st | vi__: just recognized lately that they started commercials for tobacco warez and alcohol at cinema pre-view | 21:59 |
| vi__ | gtg, mrs vi_ needs a lift. | 22:00 |
| chem|st | for movies <16 | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | all hail to tobacco prohibition in bars! In former times the air was smokey and smelled like supposed for a decent bar, and nowadays the bartenders think they don't need such things like opening the windows or switch on exhaust fans, with the amazing result it now *really* stinks in bars | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | *S*T*I*N*K*S* | 22:04 |
| chem|st | lol | 22:04 |
| chem|st | I have a cornered-bar near by... every time I want I can have the smoke of 10 cigarettes at once | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and when I ever got 20kg too much, and no money to buy any food, and want to stop eating forever, I visit that bar/restaurant nearby and take a nose of that excellent exquisite blend of smell of sweat, farting dogs, 6 or 8 differnet kinds of steaming smelly food, and of course of beer in all imaginable states of "riping" in open bottles and puddles on the floor and on the bar and in the drains | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but definitely without smoke since some 2 years now | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not to forget the hot steamy note of dish washer machine | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and breathtaking clouds of perfume of those 5 ladies that never can put enough of that cheap stinking stuff on them | 22:12 |
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| merlin1991 | ragetrip? | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nah, what rage? | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | a simple unbiased analysis of the brilliant results of outlawing smoking in bars | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and I not even touched the topic of health care and insurance balance, for the few passive smokers now 'saved' from lung cancer, vs. all the smokers that now will kill themselves with bronchopneumonia by smoking out in cold before the bar's door, at -15°C in winter | 22:31 |
| merlin1991 | hm I think having them kill tehmselves is more cost efficient than dealing with the cancer ;) | 22:32 |
| MrPingu | What I was about to say | 22:33 |
| MrPingu | ^^ | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not really. Smokers are cash cows here | 22:33 |
| MrPingu | In general they pay more taxes than would get back :P | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | magnitudes more | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's the non-smokes that are really expensive when they are 85, 90, 100 years old and more in hospital than at home ;-) | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | they can do this only because all the smokers are paying for it | 22:38 |
| MrPingu | True! | 22:40 |
| MrPingu | Still I think smoking stinks and I will never going to smoke. | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hehehe | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I'm not arguing against that | 22:41 |
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| vi__ | There was a study performed by I think a danish university. | 22:44 |
| vi__ | They concluded that if ALL smokers where to stop immediatley the national health service would see immediate savings for about 15 years. | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Did that also factor in increase in tax reciepts due to working age cancers being eliminated? | 22:46 |
| vi__ | Then, as all the old smokers dies off and the population living longer, they would see an increase in the costs of caring for elderly people. | 22:46 |
| vi__ | cost of lots caring for lots of old people > cost of caring for smoking related illnesses. | 22:47 |
| vi__ | So in conclusion. | 22:47 |
| vi__ | Smoke it down smokey mcsmokerson. | 22:47 |
| vi__ | Have 2. | 22:47 |
| vi__ | Nae, 3 at once. You are doing us all a favor. | 22:47 |
| MrPingu | Smoke for my health treatment when I am old :P | 22:47 |
| vi__ | Correct. | 22:48 |
| vi__ | In fact, smoke, do drugs, ride motorcycles and take up a part time job as an alligator agitator. | 22:48 |
| vi__ | It is beneficial for all. | 22:48 |
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| vi__ | Especially me. | 22:48 |
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| MrPingu | enjoy my submission :P | 22:52 |
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| merlin1991 | MrPingu: best submission so far :D | 22:55 |
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| MrPingu | :) | 22:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey-oh, javispedro. | 22:58 |
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| javispedro | howdy GeneralAntilles | 22:59 |
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| javispedro | how's the mood as of lately, new council et al? :) | 23:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Active | 23:03 |
| javispedro | the community ML activity can attest to that indeed | 23:04 |
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| Raimu | How well could a n900 handle Chromium with multiple tabs in any scenario? | 23:19 |
| Raimu | I mean, that thing is the biggest memory hog on my desktop PC, hands-down, because it's intended to eat a looooot of memory for smooth running. | 23:19 |
| * Raimu checks | 23:19 | |
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| Raimu | Yes, even now ol' Chrome has gulped 2.5 gigabytes on my desktop PC. | 23:20 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, again, I point you to the fact that CA devices will be given out before all the others. So nothing we do will prevent someone from getting an N950 from CA and an N9 from CC. That requires a change in the CC rules, which is all run by Nokia (quim?) | 23:21 |
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| Woody14619 | chem|st, as for CA rules, we already state that if you won/got/stole/etc a device from a previous event, you don't get one from CA. Others seem to want to limit that to devices "of the same type", but I'm not sure I like that... I think that will depend on who's in the top 25 to 30 in 3 weeks. | 23:24 |
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| Estel_ | chem|st, Woody14619, the thing is that rules are set already and we won't change them - they were also accepted by qgil | 23:35 |
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| Estel_ | also, as Woody14619 said, we don't have impact opn QT5, nokia Store and CC mrules | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | if they wan to ban people that received CA, it's up to them | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | if they want to allow someone have N950 from Ca and N950 from CC, it's also up to them | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | ouyr rules, as set in annoucement and discussed, are that *no* to giving someone 2nd N950 OR 2nd N9, if the form,er was achieved through other dev program or anything like that | 23:37 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: are things really getting active again somehow? | 23:37 |
| rm_work | that'd be amazing | 23:37 |
| Estel_ | ...but nothing bad in granting someone who *deserve* it N9, if he had N950 from dev program | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, noisy at least | 23:37 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, the "rules", as you have noted many times, are to be made by Council. Nothing says we can't change them slightly. We already have at least a few times. | 23:37 |
| Estel_ | thanks, GeneralAntilles :/ | 23:37 |
| RST38h | rm_work: Nah. ANd hey! | 23:37 |
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| rm_work | :P | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Estel_, it's a neutral judgement based on limited information. :) | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, that's also true, although I don't like changing game rules in middle of game. that's personal opinion. | 23:38 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: +1 | 23:38 |
| Woody14619 | But overall, yes... at a minimum we're preventing past winners from getting another device of the same type. | 23:38 |
| * rm_work waves at RST38h | 23:38 | |
| rm_work | RST38h / GeneralAntilles: yeah, i am actually *here* every day if anyone pings me... just normally not super active on these channels, just idling in the background. | 23:38 |
| * Estel_ nods | 23:38 | |
| Estel_ | of cours,e if majority of councilors would like to change rules, i'm not entitled to oppose that | 23:38 |
| chem|st | Estel_: lol | 23:38 |
| Woody14619 | My votes will likely reflect my belief that previous winners of any device should not get a second... | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | but, my personal view on this is that rules are set, and the pieces are moving :P | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, somehow, I sympatize, but, OTOH, I preffer to give N9 to someone who have N950 if he really deserve Ca recognition... | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | than to give it to someone less deserving, just because he wasn't deserving N950 before | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | BTw, IMO, it's perfectly possible (yet, probably, unlikely to happen) that NOT all 25 devices will be granted | 23:40 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: if you keep in mind that non-devs should get served first please | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | if, for example, Council will find only 20 deserving submissions... | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | I see no reason to make a "lottery" fo remaining 5 | 23:40 |
| Woody14619 | I would very much like to see the CC, QT5, etc update their rules to include clauses about exempting CA winners. But I susspect there's already verbage in there, probably in the form of "no prior winners to other Nokia competions in the past X months", where CA will be covered. | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, as for Ca awards, we don't care if someone is dev or not | 23:41 |
| rm_work | what does CA / CC stand for? | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | Ca - community Awards | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | CC = Coding Competition | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, the main principe about Ca is that we don't serve dev first or last, being dev is just part of community contribution | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | not better, not worse (for CA) | 23:41 |
| rm_work | thx | 23:41 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, with one cavet: I think non-APP-devs should be served first. Most of the other awards are for APP devs. Folks working on CSSU and/or non-APP things that are important to the community should still be in the list. | 23:42 |
| chem|st | being dev is not community contribution | 23:42 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: +1 | 23:42 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, I think we're close to agreement on your concept, but the bar would have to be pretty high to merit a "second" device. | 23:43 |
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| chem|st | stellarium for example is a wonderfull app but n900 was just the base to get the mobile version polished out, was closed and uploaded to itunes... | 23:43 |
| chem|st | just for the records: I never had a discussion with councelors on IRC yet afair | 23:45 |
| chem|st | you two seem to be less elitary | 23:45 |
| chem|st | what is with the others? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | err WUT? | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | <Estel_> [22:39:56] than to give it to someone less deserving, just because he wasn't deserving N950 before | 23:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I preffer to give N9 to someone who have N950 | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | You're aware there are ZERO n950 owned by those who may have received them? | 23:49 |
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| * fastlane` wants an n950 BAD! | 23:51 | |
| fastlane` | -__- | 23:51 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, i don';t get Your last message | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | could You elaborate more? | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, ivgalvez is trying to be here too, but he is currently very busy with submissions | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | *all* N950 that are _anywhere_ now, are loaners | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | Niel also appear here from time to time | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | SD69 is rather non-IRC type | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, doesn't matter | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | first and most important thing - load/have is of no interest to us | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | s/load/loan/ | 23:58 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: first and most important thing - loan/have is of no interest to us | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | seond, i'm perfectly sure, that all loaners will transform to "owners" soon, but it's just my personal opinion. | 23:58 |
| chem|st | Estel_: which submissions? | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, CA obviously | 23:58 |
| chem|st | Estel_: I am reading the mailinglist so which submissions? | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | they're not putting themselve son wiki on their own :P with linsk to garage accounts, TMO accounts, and submission itself on mailing lsit archive | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | You would not imagine how lotta hell of work is that | 23:59 |
| chem|st | no I don't | 23:59 |
| Estel_ | well, maybe he have just too much time to waste on IRC ;) | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: I bet a 6pack best russian vodka that none of the loaners _ever_ will change status to "property of the one posessing it" | 23:59 |
| chem|st | I jsut know that it is no excuse, if he doesn't want to be here ok but don't make something up | 23:59 |
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