IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-05-30

Estel_	well, long-time contributors like when they worjk is recognized and, even, rewqarded, You know that?:P	00:00
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, of course, but getting prize for volounteering, as recognition of Your work, as always neat thing.	00:00
Pali	obs does not allow to use new/update gcc?	00:00
Estel_	BTw, no once forces anyone to submit.	00:00
Estel_	So, don't speak for contributors, to "don't do anything to them"	00:00
Estel_	they're doing it to themselves :D	00:00
Estel_	by submitting	00:01
Estel_	we just help the, to achieve IT	00:01
Estel_	pun intended.	00:01
freemangordon	Pali, how am I supposed to know?	00:01
Pali	who know status of obs?	00:01
DocScrutinizer51	sorry, I don't see any aim	00:01
Estel_	freemangordon, Pali, probably COBs will use new GCC	00:01
Estel_	Pali, freemangordon, people @ #maemo-meeting	00:01
Estel_	(who know status)	00:01
Pali	ok	00:01
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, nokia needs warehouse space to stack new generations of lumia phones	00:02
Estel_	:D	00:02
Estel_	freemangordon, ;P	00:02
Pali	but there is nobody active now on #maemo-meeting I think	00:02
DocScrutinizer51	but then, whatever the aim, it won't fly with 25 devices anyway, unless it's been the aim to crreate traffic on the lists and in IRC and tmo	00:02
Estel_	Pali, they have usual meeting every monday @ 15 UTC	00:02
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Estel_	but, unusually, this week meeting was held today @ 15 UTC	00:02
Pali	ok	00:02
DocScrutinizer51	freemangordon: that's the whole point, no kidding	00:02
Estel_	due to request on mailing list	00:02
Estel_	new meeting as usual 15 UTc monday	00:02
Estel_	Pali, you can always reach them on mailing list	00:02
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, I was not kidding	00:02
Estel_	maemo-community@maemo.org	00:02
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, frankly, if they're not doing such programs, people complain. If they're doing it, people also complaing	00:03
Estel_	I'm, for one, happy, that they're proposing us N950's and N9's	00:03
Estel_	instead of lumnias	00:03
Estel_	;)	00:03
DocScrutinizer51	well, I haven't seen anybody complaining yet	00:03
Estel_	no, seriously :D no one is complaining :D	00:04
Estel_	it's jsut Your usual behavior :D	00:04
vi___	estel you wait till there are no prizes left.	00:04
vi___	there will be complaints	00:04
DocScrutinizer51	exactly - and it's again a nice example why I get upset about your argumentations	00:04
Estel_	vi_, probably ;)	00:04
DocScrutinizer51	I just dared to ask what's the AIM, FFS	00:05
DocScrutinizer51	now in your weird little world that's identical to complaining	00:05
Estel_	<DocScrutinizer51> 25 friggin devices, and 2500 fools applying "I just heard there's a thing called meamo (sic!) and there are devices for free. CAN I HAZ ONE PLZ?!"	00:05
Estel_	no complaining. absolutely. Not at all :P	00:05
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DocScrutinizer51	no complaint detected	00:06
Estel_	Well, i think GeneralAntilles is right	00:06
vi___	DocScrutinizer51: when you enquire as to the aim do you actually mean, 'what is nokias motivation when throwing these devices in the bin would be 100* less trouble'?	00:06
Estel_	if you're afraid people that don't deserve it could get one, convince people that deserve it to submit	00:06
Estel_	and trust us on that (tm), we will choose right people from submissions	00:06
DocScrutinizer51	vi___: basically yes	00:06
vi___	DocScrutinizer51: I wonder the same thing.	00:07
DocScrutinizer51	Estel_: I'm afraid of nuttin, except maybe losing my mind in debates with you	00:07
DocScrutinizer51	Estel_: again, I couldn't bother less about that whole CA stuff, I'm not even interested in another device	00:08
vi___	they stand to gain nothing except a little bit of favour with literally 10s of nerds on a strange corner of the internet.	00:08
DocScrutinizer51	I'm just interested in people and their motivation, as I'm not one of those who think they already know what other people think and do	00:08
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer51, who cares? Free devices.	00:09
DocScrutinizer51	free noise everywhere	00:09
GeneralAntilles	Hit the mute button, then.	00:09
DocScrutinizer51	freemangordon said "I think we got more serious problems than [that]"	00:10
vi___	Estel_: how long do I have to offer the nokia the opportunity to give me an n950?	00:11
freemangordon	yeah, thumb2 compiled binaries, freshly (and not so) downloaded from downloads.maemo.nokia.com	00:11
DocScrutinizer51	and isn't it quite interesting and enlightening what newly elected council considers their highest priority first task they tackle?	00:11
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, that was a legacy from the previous council, with deadlines already set up, etc	00:12
DocScrutinizer51	ooh	00:13
vi___	freemangordon: in 1 sentance if you could. How does thumb2 effect us n900 users?	00:13
freemangordon	BWAHAHAHA	00:13
freemangordon	vi___, where you've been for the last 8 months?	00:13
freemangordon	it is broken on n900	00:14
freemangordon	witha an workaround in kernel	00:14
freemangordon	*without	00:14
DocScrutinizer51	vi___: it's not working on our OMAP3530, and if it would, we could create smaller but possibly slower code for everything	00:14
freemangordon	and the only kernel so far to have working workaround is kernel-cssu, flashed on 3 devices AFAIK (2 mine, and 1 Pali's)	00:15
DocScrutinizer51	vi___: this been the ultraterse somewhat not comprehensive fuzzy answer	00:15
freemangordon	vi___, on a (broken omap core)devices running kernel without that workaround it leads to to a random SIGILLs (not only in thumb-compiled code, but also in ordinary ARM code)	00:17
Estel_	vi_, it's going to give us more RAM	00:17
Estel_	no, seriously. not joking.	00:17
Estel_	programs executables will have smaller footprint	00:17
Estel_	loaded in RAM	00:17
Estel_	= less RAM usage	00:18
vi___	Estel_: orly? i thought more RAM was the only thing that would give us more ram	00:18
Estel_	vi, due to silicon errors we can';t use thumb2 without errata fixes	00:18
freemangordon	vi__, well more FREE RAM	00:18
Estel_	freemangordon as first perosn working on this SoC mad eit work properly	00:18
Estel_	as, al;l people before him, used it wrong way, thinking that it is in effect, but still buggy	00:19
vi___	freemangordon: I was aware thumb2 was broken, thats why I asked.	00:19
freemangordon	Estel_, limit that to n900	00:19
Estel_	so FUD arose, that thumb2 on our SoC and N900a t all is not possible	00:19
vi___	but it is?	00:19
vi___	what?	00:19
freemangordon	I have NFC what those guys on BB hade achieved	00:19
Estel_	vi_, in fact, former methods to enable errata's workaround were broken	00:19
Estel_	freemangordon, nothing	00:19
Estel_	as on bb You got info that it's not possible	00:19
Estel_	and when You asked why, they answered	00:19
vi___	what is bb?	00:20
Estel_	"because it isn't, go and buy better SoC"	00:20
Estel_	beagleboard	00:20
vi___	oh	00:20
vi___	so thumb2 works on bb	00:20
vi___	but not n900	00:20
Estel_	freemangordon, BTw, yesterday DocScrutinizer asked me about details of Your fix for Sr on N90 0for up to 900 mhz	00:20
Estel_	could You explain details to him?	00:20
Estel_	he wasn't aware of that, due to sitting on kp46, IIRC	00:20
freemangordon	Estel_, I know what I got as an answer, but that were some random (even famous) guys hanging on the channel	00:20
Estel_	freemangordon, I know	00:21
DocScrutinizer51	Estel_: please stop that now - definitely!!	00:21
Estel_	I'mexplaining it to vi as terse "raport"	00:21
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, what?	00:21
Estel_	yesterdsya You asked me abut it, and I told You that freemangordon know details better	00:21
DocScrutinizer51	I AM NOt SITTINg ON KP46!!!	00:21
Estel_	well, that's what You've said yesterday, not that I care?	00:21
DocScrutinizer51	stop spreading utter lies and bullshit!!!	00:21
Estel_	erm, it would be spreading FUD if I weould be talking it behind Your back	00:22
Estel_	You're here, so feel free to correct, without unnecessary andrenalina bursts	00:22
freemangordon	vi__, part of the fix is setting a bit in a register in system control co-processosr, but as n900 is high-secure device, that register is accessible only through call to ,hmm, lets name it BIOS	00:22
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freemangordon	Which I was lucky to discover :)	00:23
MrPingu	Hmm, I have seen an uname of kp46 yesterday, can't remember from who though	00:23
freemangordon	MrPingu, that was DocScrutinizer51	00:23
Estel_	MrPingu, from DocScrutinizer ;)	00:23
DocScrutinizer51	freemangordon: ignore Estel_, he'll never be able to learn it as he refuses to wash his yellow pullover he is wearing all day and all night, since 15 years	00:23
Estel_	apparently, DocScrutinizer51 is not DocScrutinizer. DocScrutinizer, dob';t get angry, I'm jok9ing now.	00:24
MrPingu	What's with you guys? :O	00:24
Estel_	In my humble and fully personal opinion, which doesn't apply to be ultimately correct...	00:24
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, is jsut overreactive as hell	00:24
Estel_	+ hard in discussions, where not everyone agrees with his point of view.	00:25
Estel_	AFK for 15 minutes or so ;)	00:25
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Woody14619	MrPingu, They've both been spending a few hours screaming at each other like 4 year olds... nothing new...	00:25
DocScrutinizer51	I'm just ultimately fed up with you spreading lies about me	00:25
freemangordon	vi__, so, most probably (yet to be proven) we have a completely stable thumb2 on n900	00:25
DocScrutinizer51	and I hate your stinking yellow shirt	00:26
Woody14619	So... the FB lib is thumb2? That would explain why it's crapping out for some randomly.	00:26
freemangordon	vi__, actually i have few packages on my primary device thumb-compiled (Qt, gtk, h-d, stuff like that) for some time	00:26
freemangordon	Woody14619, yeah ;)	00:27
Woody14619	friggin awesome. :P	00:27
freemangordon	Woody14619, actually it is the sharing plugin	00:27
DocScrutinizer51	Woody14619: exactly what I said ;-D	00:27
MrPingu	What do you mean exactly with crapping out? I sometimes get that upload error with reason :P	00:27
MrPingu	*without	00:27
Pali	freemangordon, we should ask people who working on OBS if they can add more gcc versions to OBS (one recent for thumb2)	00:27
Woody14619	So... Looks like a reasonable reason to push the thumb2 patch into KP51? This would affect a core component that most people use...	00:28
MrPingu	Now it's fully broken though :(	00:28
freemangordon	Pali, I don't think it is that easy, new gcc means ne libstdc++	00:28
freemangordon	MrPingu, patience is the word :P	00:28
DocScrutinizer51	Woody14619: we don't need any reason to push that into kp51	00:28
DocScrutinizer51	it's already on its way	00:28
freemangordon	hmm, it is not about KP51, but about the rest	00:29
Pali	but if obs will be up, it will be possible to create thumb repo with updated libstdc++...	00:29
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Woody14619	freemangordon, the rest? (Sorry, been out of the loop a few days)	00:29
DocScrutinizer51	Woody14619: freemangordon accepted my suggestion to allow switching this patch on and off at runtime, so no speed penalty for flushing branch prediction will hit those who don't need the thumb patch	00:30
Woody14619	btw, I was here for OBS meeting... Work progresses....	00:30
freemangordon	Pali, of course, but are you sure newer libstc++ from OBS will be ABI compatible with maemo5?	00:30
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freemangordon	I am not saying it will be not, just asking	00:30
Pali	I think that new version of libstdc++ is not removing sysmbols	00:31
freemangordon	well, I was thinking the same	00:31
Pali	so it could be backward compatible	00:31
MrPingu	Freemangordon: I am, sometimes but it was more a statement :) I know you are working on it, as for that version from ghost repo :P	00:31
Pali	with maemo obs it should be simple to test that...	00:32
freemangordon	at least libstdc++ coming with gcc 4.6.2 lives happily on my device for 6 months or so	00:32
Woody14619	stskeeps has been working on a SB2 version http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/sb2-b1-obs-victory.txt	00:33
MrPingu	6 months is half a year, I would have rendered it stable ;&	00:33
Pali	freemangordon, when building gcc you can specify default gcc flags. so creating thumb repo on obs should be simple if they provide thum gcc toolchain	00:33
freemangordon	Woody14619, do you have any ide which gcc it will be?	00:34
Woody14619	No... didn't think to ask, and it wasn't mentioned.	00:34
Pali	each package which will be compiled by that gcc will be automatically thumb without needing to modify debian/rules file	00:34
freemangordon	Pali, yaeh, at least on theory	00:35
Woody14619	Pali, is that a good thing, or a bad thing? :S	00:35
vi___	now I know EXACTLY what a BIOS is. Can you explain what you meant by bios in the n900 context?	00:35
Pali	Woody14619, this allow to create thumb deb package without needing to modify source package	00:36
DocScrutinizer51	for CSSU official flavours, it's definitely a very bad thing if we can't use another certified compiler for that	00:36
Pali	DocScrutinizer51, my idea is to choose compiler for repository	00:36
Woody14619	I guess good if you want the fix in & take the potential speed hit(s), but bad if you don't?	00:36
freemangordon	vi__, absolutely the same, it is a ROM code with an API. It is the first thing to be loaded after power-on AFAIK	00:36
DocScrutinizer51	that should work	00:36
Pali	so to create testing repo with our thumb compiler	00:37
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Pali	and I think OBS could support it	00:37
DocScrutinizer51	freemangordon: well, that's ROMBL	00:37
DocScrutinizer51	or ROMBOOT	00:37
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, agree, what I am calling is PPA, but it isin ROM as well	00:38
vi___	But a ROM is just a data store.	00:38
vi___	it has no smarta	00:38
freemangordon	vi__, PPA stands for Primary Protected Application, that signed with nokia keys, etc	00:39
vi___	^smarts	00:39
freemangordon	vi__, there is secure RAM area in OMAP	00:39
vi___	so there is a system co-processor who has a control register that has a switch for enabling/disabling tumb2	00:40
DocScrutinizer51	no	00:41
freemangordon	vi__, there is a special instruction(SMC, stands for secure monitor call) to call PPA or HAL API. The code in PPA is executed in secure priviledged mode, and have a full access to HW	00:41
DocScrutinizer51	no coproc	00:41
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, according to ARM terms it is a co-processor	00:41
DocScrutinizer51	o.O	00:41
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freemangordon	well, 15 of them	00:41
vi___	a co-processor on the same chip?	00:41
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DocScrutinizer51	sure	00:42
Woody14619	.oO(As much as a PDP11 was a co-processor for a Vax)	00:42
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DocScrutinizer51	it's a SoC	00:42
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freemangordon	yeah, it is a SoC	00:42
vi___	I majored in VHDL.	00:42
DocScrutinizer51	aaaah yes you might be right, I seem to recall security processor in our modem at work (Also ARM)	00:43
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freemangordon	http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0301h/ch02s12s13.html	00:43
freemangordon	system control coprocessor that is	00:43
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vi___	ok.	00:44
vi___	so is thumb2 broken or not then?	00:44
freemangordon	vi__, it is a bit more complicated than that, check here http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/git-commits-head/2009/5/3/5622724	00:44
freemangordon	that is the worksround which is supposed to fix it	00:44
vi___	aah thank you, a little light reading.	00:44
DocScrutinizer51	anyway it's basically nothing different to age old software interrupts that allow userland process to request root land stuff to be executed by a system library	00:45
freemangordon	:nod: that is wahy I used BIOS term	00:45
freemangordon	*why	00:45
DocScrutinizer51	I understrood quite fine	00:45
DocScrutinizer51	ask RST38h ;-D	00:46
freemangordon	vi___, but it does not work on n900, as "IBE Bit" is not accessible from kernel, so theat kernel patch does nothing	00:46
DocScrutinizer51	there's something even more privileged than kernel though	00:47
DocScrutinizer51	which can do it according to freemangordon	00:47
DocScrutinizer51	PPA	00:47
freemangordon	vi__, now, what I was lucky to find is the correct "int 2Fh" function to call to set that bit	00:48
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, it is not according to me, it is according to MCR on ACR	00:48
DocScrutinizer51	:-) sure	00:48
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DocScrutinizer51	I just have no idea what those TLA mean	00:49
freemangordon	MCR is instruction to read a coprocessor register to MPU register	00:49
freemangordon	ACR is aux control regiter (the register in question)	00:49
freemangordon	kernel can read it, but cannot write it, write op end as NOP	00:49
DocScrutinizer51	well, the code to do that magic on int 2f has to be in ROM code though	00:50
vi___	DocScrutinizer51: now that I understand	00:50
vi___	5he dos interrupts thing that is	00:50
freemangordon	yeah. the sweet part is that it is described in TRM :P	00:50
DocScrutinizer51	no?	00:50
DocScrutinizer51	aaah	00:50
DocScrutinizer51	a proper pointer would help a lot	00:51
DocScrutinizer51	:-)	00:51
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, gimme a minute to open the TRM	00:51
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DocScrutinizer51	take your time, I'm taking mine to get me a beer before I go to sleep	00:52
chem\|st	o/	00:52
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, 25.4 Device Initialization by ROM Code	00:52
freemangordon	function 3	00:52
DocScrutinizer51	ta	00:52
vi___	define: trm	00:52
DocScrutinizer51	tech ref manual	00:53
freemangordon	Technical Reference Manual	00:53
DocScrutinizer51	~wtf trm	00:53
infobot	Gee... I don't know what trm means...	00:53
DocScrutinizer51	~trm	00:53
vi___	aah, da datasheet	00:53
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: my sisters device was borked, flashing emmc and combined did not work... as rootfs was borked ahead	00:53
DocScrutinizer51	well, if you call 3000+ pages a sheet ;-P	00:53
vi___	there are lies. Damn lies. Statistics. Then there are datasheets.	00:53
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer51, and for more reference you may want to look at BB init in u-boot :P	00:54
vi___	3000!!11qqqq!	00:54
vi___	I thought the 8051 manual was epic	00:54
vi___	at ~300	00:54
Estel_	Woody14619, hello back in the civilization :D	00:54
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Estel_	seriously though, I hope You enjoyed Your wilderness trip	00:54
freemangordon	vi___, exactly 3454 according to acrobat reader :D	00:55
Estel_	you msised great fun with people submitting to Ca awards	00:55
Estel_	...few argues with DocScrutinizer, and some aweosme development ;)	00:55
DocScrutinizer51	vi___: and for h-e-n I had to visit some half dozen versions of that	00:55
freemangordon	vi__, other questions?	00:55
freemangordon	:P	00:55
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vi___	How do magnets work?	00:56
Estel_	honestly, I admire DocScrutinizer for reading that (re hostmode), it's like reading phone book	00:56
freemangordon	magnetically?	00:56
vi___	magically?	00:56
Estel_	magnetrs? Those thing that have a soul cursed inside, to reach invisible hands and pull things?	00:56
freemangordon	hmm, sounds sane	00:56
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vi___	magnet!=cursed touch stone	00:56
Estel_	freemangordon, how You've found this in 3454 pages document?	00:56
DocScrutinizer51	maginetically	00:57
Estel_	using searchj?	00:57
Estel_	;P	00:57
Estel_	or doing voodoo rituals?	00:57
freemangordon	Estel_, I made it work first, then I started to search a rationale :D	00:57
Estel_	:) this is how I like things to be done	00:57
MrPingu	:P	00:57
Estel_	probably, that's is why i'marguing with DocScrutinizer all the time	00:57
Estel_	different life philosophies ;P	00:57
vi___	freemangordon: employers are going to have to fight for the right to employ pali and yourself.	00:57
Estel_	yea, in mud	00:58
Estel_	but only if they're female employers	00:58
vi___	I hope you are righting all these acheivments down.	00:58
freemangordon	nah, I am ok where I am right now	00:58
vi___	^writing.	00:58
Estel_	freemangordon for president ;)	00:58
freemangordon	writing? yes, in source code	00:58
freemangordon	damn, I am a developer, not a writer :P	00:59
Estel_	You need a agent ;)	00:59
Estel_	user-agent.	00:59
DocScrutinizer51	no, a pimp	00:59
vi___	srsly, graduates are 10 per euro cent. programmers with proof are hard to get.	00:59
Estel_	;p	00:59
Estel_	vi_, don't put him in self-admiratiuon too much :p	01:00
freemangordon	well, thats a problem Pali have to solve in a few years :D	01:00
Estel_	or he is even going to connect N950's FMTX to antenna via kernel.	01:00
freemangordon	Estel_, no way, I am already on the limit	01:00
Estel_	freemangordon, one guy submitting to program, was using hisN9 things as rationale...	01:00
Estel_	and have 'kernel development'	01:01
Estel_	specified in maemo.org profile	01:01
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Estel_	maybe I should bribe him?:P	01:01
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freemangordon	Estel_, if he is a developer and have a will to work on n900 kernel why not?	01:02
freemangordon	but his device have to be under a condition :D	01:02
Estel_	yea... i;m afraid the second part is not true :(	01:02
Estel_	BTW	01:02
Estel_	one guy made better rationale than Pali for getting N950	01:02
Estel_	"I have n900 and n9, event my n900 died now, i have to save more money(Indonesia has bad monetary system) i would like to be an N950 owner, what a pride and priceless moment when i hold n950, and i hope nokia continue to develope it, and maybe its become main product of nokia, so i make a wish, and your all great, what the meaning of maemo without this superb community, bravo maemo.org"	01:02
Estel_	I think he deserves N950 just because indonesia have bad monetary system :(	01:03
freemangordon	damn, its 1 am here	01:03
freemangordon	gtg gyus, bb	01:03
Estel_	(i'm not laughing behind someone's back - all those bullshit is send to public mailing list)	01:03
MrPingu	Hmm I deserve one because I have a bad monetary system?	01:03
Estel_	see ya freemangordon	01:03
MrPingu	good night!	01:03
Estel_	MrPingu, see that:	01:04
Estel_	"Im so proud when hold my first N900, reading, and watching youtube everyday about maemo(dualboot, etc), and then finally managed to get one after saving my money and i love it!! , after 4 months hold n900, disaster comings, my son play it around and throw my n900 into the water, and its died, soon i manage to get an N9(even its rare and hard to find here), as long as i held maemo device, i much and much learning from this community, what the meaning of	01:04
Estel_	real-power of linux and other stuff too, actually im working at samsung gallery, but falling in love with maemo and cant understand why nokia abando it, so im gonna be a little dust of your community, lets keep it alive, long live maemo, you are all awesome!!!"	01:04
Estel_	we should get a 3-4 Nokia's 1100 for "recognizing" nominations like that	01:05
MrPingu	LoL	01:05
Woody14619	huh? bad monetrary system = device is about as bad an idea as governance by having a sword given to you by a spirit in a lake....	01:05
Woody14619	.oO("You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!")	01:06
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MrPingu	I am still thinking what my "story" would be	01:06
Estel_	poor people with N900 dropped into water, lets give them few 1100.	01:06
MrPingu	I JUST LOVE Maemo, CAN HAZ them?	01:07
Estel_	MrPingu, write something about evil uncle that swapped you N900's motherboard with lumnia one	01:07
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Estel_	and hole crusade to reclaim it	01:07
Estel_	+ princess and half of kingdom	01:07
Woody14619	And yes, Estel_, I'm back from the woods, for now. :) I actually almost got on for the meeting, but apparently Tmobil is banned without SASL and xchat on N900 fails to do it right without a plugin.	01:07
Estel_	Woody14619, I see... well, i explained people why You were not able to made it there :)	01:08
Estel_	ah	01:08
Estel_	BTW	01:08
MrPingu	No, I think it's going to be about a dragon who stealed my N900	01:08
Estel_	Woody14619, join internal chann for a while, if You have time now?	01:08
Woody14619	?internal? What channel is that?	01:09
Woody14619	.oO(Why can't we just hold all meetings in one channel? Vs making 800 channels?)	01:09
Estel_	Will explain it on 801 channel :D	01:10
MrPingu	haha :P	01:10
MrPingu	Well I am going to sleep, tomorrow my last exam then freedom for some weeks :D	01:10
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MrPingu	Good night, cya!	01:13
Estel_	Good luck MrPingu	01:14
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user_	how do you change a swaps priority withou swapon/off ing?	01:18
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Raimu	Reading tonight's channel quarrel made my head hurt.	01:24
Raimu	Estel, BTW, do you write on a regular keyboard? I think some of your lines are actually getting harder to read as time passes.	01:25
DocScrutinizer51	vi___: not at all?	01:25
Raimu	Estekl, I mean that you write competent text on TMO, but your IRC output has the most typos I see on any channel.	01:26
Raimu	..."Estekl." Well, that was ironic.	01:26
Estel_	Raimu, I also notice that, as time passes, and IRC activity grow up (probably, due to being Councilor) my grammar and writing skills ar egetting worse and worse :(	01:26
Estel_	sure thing, that it was irony ;) not that I don't belive it.	01:26
Estel_	hehe, thanks a lot	01:26
Estel_	well, maybe I'll need to actually start READING things before hitting enter... Never though that this doomsday will ever happen :(	01:26
Estel_	seriously though...	01:27
Raimu	:)	01:27
Estel_	I've so much work with a) last things about installing council - as chair, all formalities are on me now b) Communtiy Awards and submissions c) whatever non-Council related activity on Maemo d) breathing :)	01:27
Estel_	that, supposedly, I just tried to write everything too fast, or, to do too many things at the same time	01:28
Estel_	BTW i'm very strange type of writer, if You're interested - sorry for monologue ;)	01:28
Estel_	With all this speed, I'mwriting using - literally - two fingers	01:28
Estel_	right hand middle, and left hand 2nd	01:28
Raimu	I've sometimes thought you're writing lightning-speed on a n900 or something.	01:29
Estel_	because many times I'm ;P	01:29
Raimu	Touché	01:29
Estel_	currently, on full keyboard, but i'm switching from mobile and desktop all the times	01:29
Estel_	well, real life is also demanding :P	01:29
GeneralAntilles	No one can touch my N900 speeds.	01:29
Estel_	not like reading all those submissions, but still :p	01:30
DocScrutinizer51	GeneralAntilles: indeed	01:30
Estel_	GeneralAntilles, challenged accepted :P seriously though, You're probably faster.	01:30
GeneralAntilles	I'm way out of practice	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Haven't touched an N900 keyboard since last year.	01:30
Woody14619	.oO(GeneralAntilles: My keystrokes bring all the boys to the yard?)	01:31
Estel_	Oh, You just screwed Your chances to get N9 in CA	01:31
Estel_	(joke)	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Hey, I've transcribed more than one keynote to IRC via N900.	01:31
GeneralAntilles	One of them was half in Spanish!	01:31
DocScrutinizer51	GeneralAntilles is writing faster on N900 than speakers on a lecture are speaking	01:31
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Estel_	and know what they want to say before they've said that	01:32
Estel_	that is why he udnerstand me, and You don't, apparently :p	01:32
vi___	Woody14619: I could inform you however I would require some form of monetary recompense.	01:32
Woody14619	XD	01:32
Raimu	GeneralAntilles: swoon	01:32
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GeneralAntilles	Estel_, nah, that's the Mad Facilitator Skillz.	01:33
* GeneralAntilles sat on the council that kept Talk from burning down after it was brought into maemo.org.		01:33
vi___	I do believe my comorrancy is of a maesurably higher standard than yous.	01:33
Estel_	well, we're starting little contest. Vi is writing few lines of text, and one who is able to re-write them, got a half of potato... Eh, it would be just copy and paste contest ;)	01:33
vi___	higher standard than yours.	01:33
Estel_	GeneralAntilles, I know :)	01:34
Estel_	I'm glad to see that You're still somewhat active	01:34
GeneralAntilles	vi___, cormorantcy?	01:34
Estel_	something about cormorans	01:34
GeneralAntilles	Estel_, who's somewhat active?	01:34
vi___	a bird stew??	01:34
Estel_	http://s1.e-monsite.com/2008/10/07/09/53401324cormoran-blog-jpg.jpg	01:34
Estel_	GeneralAntilles, You - I mean, that you're still here	01:35
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GeneralAntilles	Oh	01:35
Estel_	doing MWN and such stuff	01:35
GeneralAntilles	lol	01:35
vi___	a kind of domicile	01:35
GeneralAntilles	Was gonna say.	01:35
GeneralAntilles	vi___, commorancy?	01:35
GeneralAntilles	Every damn week for years now.	01:35
Estel_	Honestly, it's a pity than no other way (except for pinging You here directly, or Jaffa) to contribute MWN, other than twitter	01:36
GeneralAntilles	What other way would you like?	01:36
Estel_	I'm just not cormoranish type of guy and I don't use twitter/facebook/whatever :(	01:36
Woody14619	Plenty of ways... making wiki pages works too, if they're popular enough. :)	01:36
Estel_	IRC bot collecting links :p	01:36
Estel_	mailing list	01:36
Estel_	whatever	01:36
GeneralAntilles	Meh	01:36
GeneralAntilles	Just ping one of us here.	01:36
GeneralAntilles	I'm never too far away.	01:37
Estel_	something accesible without registering on murky website	01:37
DocScrutinizer51	telepathty	01:37
Estel_	and accepting they murky rules and privacy policy	01:37
Estel_	Aye.	01:37
GeneralAntilles	Say qwerty12's name 3 times.	01:37
Estel_	and write pentagram	01:37
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DocScrutinizer51	sacrifice a squiid	01:38
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Raimu	Write mystical runes on a CAPTCHA check anywhere	01:39
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DocScrutinizer51	~seen lcuk	02:25
infobot	lcuk <lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 259d 9h 24m 15s ago, saying: 'heh'.	02:25
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GeneralAntilles	Has it really been that long?	02:29
DocScrutinizer51	yap sigh	02:31
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DocScrutinizer51	GeneralAntilles: seen RevKathy posting on [cmty]? Nice to see her around	02:32
GeneralAntilles	I was poking her on Twitter this morning.	02:33
DocScrutinizer51	:-)	02:33
* DocScrutinizer51 feels like times changed a friggin lot in just less than 24 months		02:34
GeneralAntilles	There's a Dylan song about that, I think.	02:35
DocScrutinizer51	-ChanServ- 8 jOERG_rw +votriA [modified 2 years, 9 weeks, 6 days, 02:13:36 ago]	02:35
DocScrutinizer51	incredible	02:35
Hurrian	maemo wiki seems to be down, can anyone check?	02:36
DocScrutinizer51	hmm	02:36
GeneralAntilles	Up here.	02:36
DocScrutinizer51	check what?	02:36
Hurrian	nevermind, seems to be just a small, high-load time	02:37
DocScrutinizer51	http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.maemo.org	02:37
DocScrutinizer51	Hurrian: or it was me testing my latest DOS-attack tool ;-P	02:45
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robbiethe1st	Look! Nokia N900's spiritual successor: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/525189507-Aigo-Palmtop-Tablet-PC-MID-P8880E-Upgrade-version-4-8-inches-1-2G-Intel-Atom-Z515-wholesalers.html	03:57
robbiethe1st	... And a Maemo-rip-off? http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/539472777--EMS-Shipping-Business-tablet-3GNET-MI13-1G-RAM-5-Touchscreen-WiFi-Intel-Z515-1-2GHz-wholesalers.html	04:00
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sethstorm	robbiethe1st: I'd be surprised if it was some sort of maemo/etc. derivative	04:26
Hurrian	it probably isn't running maemo	04:28
sethstorm	MTX?	04:28
Hurrian	maybe some java symbian ripoff	04:28
sethstorm	robbiethe1st: the first one of those is promising, but the battery life would have to be abysmal	04:29
sethstorm	and the cdma radio would be likely to not be usable w/ US providers	04:30
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sethstorm	(as much as plenty of us out there that want options for a CDMA qwerty slider that isn't encumbered)	04:34
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Estel_	DocScrutinizer, Kathy Smith (revdKathy) also submitten to CA program ;)	04:40
Estel_	I was shocked to see Her submissions yesterday	04:40
Estel_	~seen RevdKathy	04:41
infobot	revdkathy <~androirc@5ace035f.bb.sky.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 257d 7h 47m 23s ago, saying: 'oh silly me, yes. It's apple who lift other people's work and pass it off as their own. '.	04:41
Estel_	and I freakin' can't belive it's already 3/4 of a year since lcuk departure.	04:41
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Estel_	well, I see it everyday - my Son is already 3 years and 4 months old, and, considering this "growth rate", he will be as old as I'm now quite quickly ;) I'm telling You, something is changing in minds, Earth's spin and orbital movement is perceived much faster than 30 years ago almost for everyone	04:43
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Estel_	freakin' year is passing like a moment	04:44
Estel_	It may be surprising, what I'm going to say, but I don't think it's necessary bad. It's just... Well, strange a little, and interesting for sure.	04:45
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Estel_	submissions processed, mails and PM's answered, TMO "checked"... n8, time to get some sleep. Postponing development for tomorrow...	05:29
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teotwaki	fuck me, are they still postulating for the n9/n950s?	11:06
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vi_	teotwaki: well dur	11:09
vi_	FREE FONEZ. JUST SEND EMAILZ.	11:10
teotwaki	good point.	11:10
Jaffa	Estel_: If Twitter's a problem and you'd really like to contribute links, send them via email or we can find some other way. However, Twitter is a low-barrier submission method which makes it convenient for sending links	11:12
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klea	hi... yesterday I asked in here about my wifi reception problems with this used n900 that i recently picked up used (thanx to the ones that helped)... unfortunately i got cut off again but had time to make some more tests... i installed KP50 and bleeding edge wifi drivers but this didn't help a lot. i still think it's a hardware problem... since i have some wifi cards around and a n9 sitting by (not that famous for it's wifi), i'll drop some rece	11:35
klea	1. integrated wifi in laptop (realtek): . Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=64/70 Signal level=-46 dBm	11:35
klea	2. usb wifi, laptop (atheros): Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=59/70 Signal level=-51 dBm	11:35
klea	3. N9: Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=48/70 Signal level=-62 dBm	11:35
klea	4. N900 (bleeding edge driver 0.2, power management off in settings): Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s Link Quality=25/70 Signal level=-85 dBm	11:35
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RST38h	klea: The answer is to use manufacturer supplied drivers rather than the "bleeding edge" stuff you have got from god knows where	11:38
klea	ok, but it makes no difference	11:39
klea	i'll post the stock results	11:39
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klea	5. N900 (stock drivers, power management off): Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s Link Quality=12/100 Signal level=-86 dBm Noise Level =-93dBm	11:45
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klea	i also have to note that the 2 wifi cards detect about 20 wifi networks around, old-trusty E71 finds 16, N9 only 4 of them and N900 only 2	11:50
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vi_	klea: it seems pretty clear. Your n900 is fecked	12:01
klea	vi_: :)	12:02
vi_	klea: take it apart and make sure the wifi aerial is sitting right	12:02
vi_	it is only 'pressed' together with some springs.	12:02
vi_	maybe if you bend them out slightly and clean the contacks with a little solvent it might work again.	12:02
klea	vi_: that's what i thought of doing, but wanted to ask for ideas in here before	12:04
klea	vi_: (maybe i could try soldering the usb port as well....)	12:04
klea	vi_: strange though, didn't find anyone with a similar problem, it's a strange case	12:07
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MrPingu	Someone has to be the first...	12:09
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Jaffa	Estel_: If you want to write the bot, that'd be fine :-)	12:11
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MrPingu	Brb, reboot testing new hildon-desktop	12:17
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chem\|st	o/	12:26
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DocScrutinizer51	vi_: how do you expl*in -69dBm by broken antenna, and how's that creating poor signal quality?	12:33
chem\|st	MohammadAG: ping	12:35
DocScrutinizer51	moin chem\|st	12:35
chem\|st	MohammadAG: sociality shows a conversation missing about one day but showing one entry I do not see on facebook... o.O	12:36
chem\|st	moin Doc	12:36
DocScrutinizer51	chem\|st: could you take over and explain why solvents are generally a poor idea to 'clean' contacts	12:36
DocScrutinizer51	I'm busy	12:36
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: sure	12:37
DocScrutinizer51	use unvarnished paper to 'brush' contacts clean!	12:39
DocScrutinizer51	or eraser, in nasty cases	12:40
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DocScrutinizer51	vi_ is talking klea into nonsensical enterprise	12:41
chem\|st	klea: for cleaning you do not want any non-polar liquids as it will destroy other things, as DocScrutinizer51 says, dry cleaning first	12:41
chem\|st	but I doubt it is the antenna	12:41
DocScrutinizer51	me too	12:42
chem\|st	sounds more likely to be some other issue, my sister just had a powrmanaement disconnect last night	12:42
DocScrutinizer51	chem\|st: oxid! non-soluble	12:42
DocScrutinizer51	but -69dBm is not a defect antr	12:43
DocScrutinizer51	-r	12:43
vi_	DocScrutinizer51s is gonna hate.	12:44
chem\|st	no the 12% link quality seems odd	12:44
DocScrutinizer51	yep	12:45
DocScrutinizer51	doeasn't match -69 and short dist to AP	12:45
DocScrutinizer51	doesn't suggest ant is problem	12:45
DocScrutinizer51	I suspect cross intermodulation	12:46
DocScrutinizer51	aka 'interference'	12:46
chem\|st	klea: as people always mess up flashing, and sometimes the hardware firmwares do not get flashed properly (you gonna end up like my sister)	12:46
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chem\|st	as you speak DocScrutinizer51	12:46
chem\|st	klea: how far are you away from the AP	12:47
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DocScrutinizer51	consider BT coexistence	12:47
klea	chem\|st: -69 dBm was yesterdays result, 10cm from the access point (thomson)	12:47
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chem\|st	MohammadAG: ok got it, it is dumb, it shows an conversation in overview being sent yesterday night which was actually sent 2years ago the next entry is really sent 3 days ago and so on	12:48
vi_	~seen mata	12:48
vi_	~seen matan	12:48
infobot	mata <~a@c-f685e555.024-50-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 744d 19h 36m 15s ago, saying: 'do we know what console commands there are?'.	12:48
infobot	matan <530f167a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.15.22.122> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 622d 1h 54m 37s ago, saying: 'morning'.	12:48
chem\|st	MohammadAG: some kind of just useless	12:48
klea	chem\|st: today i get about -85 dBm at 5-6 meters from the AP	12:48
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klea	and it's a different AP today	12:49
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chem\|st	klea: 10cm is like worthless, in ranges lower 3m it is know that your link quality may drop	12:49
chem\|st	klea: what is the link now?	12:49
vi_	klea is this for ALL AP in different buildings?	12:50
klea	vi_: yes	12:50
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klea	vi_: i can't even detect networks that even the N9 sees and connects to	12:51
vi_	mmm, some kind of global interference ay?	12:51
klea	i took it out several times to try public APs	12:51
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klea	i'm sure something's wrong with the n900 itself	12:51
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vi_	klea: clearly	12:52
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klea	of course i'm open to suggestions/ideas, it's my first n900 and don't have experience	12:53
vi_	Then WTF is this ultrasolve PCB cleaning solvent for?	12:53
vi_	Klea your N900 broken.	12:53
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vi_	If it was mine I would open it, clean contacts and inspect etc.	12:54
klea	vi_: it can only be used reliably when at the same room as the AP	12:54
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chem\|st	vi_: link?	12:54
vi_	Despite what Doc 'I know everything!!q!' Scrutinizer51 says.	12:54
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vi_	link?	12:54
vi_	It is sitting on my desk	12:55
chem\|st	klea: another try with another approach if you don't mind	12:55
chem\|st	vi_: picture (ingridients)	12:55
vi_	http://www.electrolube.com/064/docs/cleaningmain.asp?id=22	12:55
vi_	Shuv that in your truth pipe and smoke it.	12:56
vi_	(actually doin't it is probably wuite harmful to inhale)	12:56
vi_	^dont ^quite	12:56
chem\|st	klea: flash it clean, really clean, speaking of "flash rootfs>disconnect&remove battery>flash emmc>disconnect&remove battery>flash rootfs>disconnect&remove battery>boot>try again" just to make sure everything is fine from the software side	12:57
chem\|st	vi_: "Compatible with most plastics"...	12:59
klea	chem\|st: ok, I'll do it. actually i should have done it when i got it since i've no idea what the previous owner did to it, but everything was quite default, they didn't seem to play a lot with it	12:59
chem\|st	I would use it on PCBs from 90's backwards...	12:59
chem\|st	klea: my sister had a borked rootfs, flashing emmc>rootfs did not work in the first place, osso-notes crashed instantaneous and so on	13:00
chem\|st	klea: getting a used device means flashing after posting every details (the owner left) on facebook	13:01
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chem\|st	a clean rootfs>emmc>rootfs flash did the job	13:02
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chem\|st	and pls do not ask what it does while booting, it is some populating stuff and voodoo	13:02
chem\|st	as it does populate home and stuff AFTER language/date setup	13:03
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chem\|st	vi_: for your solvent... solving oil and grease off a pcb means all parts on the PCB need to be resistant, try that on your PC's mainboard and I bet you will have funny effects after a while	13:05
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chem\|st	that is why you need to be carefull if immersing your pc in cooling liquids... they have to be polar acid-free silicon-free	13:06
vi_	I will be sure to tell the boys in production to stop using it on aour PCBs then.	13:06
chem\|st	vi_: you are an idiot!	13:07
chem\|st	sry cannot help it!	13:07
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chem\|st	I work in a surface and thin-film lab and have exactly that kind of "in-process-failures" to search for	13:08
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vi_	chem\|st: cheers mate.	13:09
chem\|st	believe it or not, sometimes a replaced wheel in a production lane causes trouble as it is gassing some "solvent"	13:09
chem\|st	if the "ultrasolver" works for your production fine, but your production is not "all" production	13:10
vi_	chem\|st: also I was not advocating he bathes his n900 in a solvent. The implication was 'put a little on a cotton bud and clean the contacts'.	13:10
chem\|st	our et engineer ruined a sample with such a "solvent"	13:11
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chem\|st	vi_: yeah and maybe the contact will come off afterwards	13:11
chem\|st	metal does not need a solvent for cleaning	13:11
dafox	Hi all. Does anyone if there (currently) exists a (global) audio-equalizer for the n900? I searched and all I could come up with was a seemingly outdated gst renderer plugin. I would like something which can adjust the global volume so that it works for applications other than my mediaplayer too (e.g. phone, games, etc).	13:12
chem\|st	dafox: afair there is only a mediaplayer with equelizer	13:13
dafox	yes, I read about that one, the problem is that this will only work for playing music then, whereas ideally all sounds should be passed through the equalizer	13:14
chem\|st	so iirc the answere is "no"	13:15
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: this solvent conversation is "history repeating" dejavu whatever, seems to be about once a year	13:16
chem\|st	good morning freemangordon	13:17
freemangordon_	morning?	13:17
freemangordon_	let it be morning :-)	13:18
DocScrutinizer51	~ugt	13:19
infobot	i heard ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html	13:19
freemangordon_	:-)	13:20
chem\|st	^^	13:21
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chem\|st	~imk	13:21
chem\|st	~wtf imk	13:21
infobot	Gee... I don't know what imk means...	13:21
chem\|st	me neither	13:22
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chem\|st	is it "in my knowledge"? sounds wrong to me	13:22
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* chem\|st lols on application emails		13:27
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chem\|st	"We´ve created a really cool German Community around the maemo	13:29
chem\|st	(N900),MeeGo(N9/50;Ivi,Netbooks,Tablets),Mer,Nemo,Tizen Stuff."	13:29
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shanttu	Is there any way to update time and date automatically (using 'internet-time' or something) when SIM-card is not used? Now I have to set them manually after every boot	13:37
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petteri	probably with ntp, but I haven't tried	13:38
dafox	chem\|st: ok, that's unfortunate :( Thank you for the answer :)	13:38
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shanttu	petteri, thanks. ntp it is http://wiki.maemo.org/NTP	13:41
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chem\|st	shanttu: openntpd or use gps	13:45
chem\|st	dafox: was looking in several PA possibilities but I did not manage to get anything working properly as I broke the "normal" PA setup always	13:47
dafox	PA = portaudio?	13:47
chem\|st	pulseaudio	13:47
chem\|st	I never got the streams right and after several days wasting evenings I gave up	13:48
dafox	ok. I guess I'll have to live with it then :(. Did you do that gst render plugin then?	13:48
chem\|st	no	13:48
dafox	what did you try to do then?	13:48
vi_	luke_jr submitted a patch tht allowed a user to load a FIR filter into the soundchip.	13:49
vi_	the patch was not his.	13:50
dafox	that actually sound really useful. I'm sorry but I have afk for a little while, is it ok to talk about this a bit more later?	13:50
chem\|st	I tried to apply http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/system-wide-pulseaudio-equalizer.html	13:51
chem\|st	dafox: sure, don't know about my evening yet but others might have useful info for you too	13:52
shanttu	chem\|st, how to use gps to set time?	13:56
shanttu	just enabling in and wait?	13:56
chem\|st	shanttu: the program needs to apply $date	13:58
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chem\|st	iirc columbus did that, look in its source	13:58
[DarkGUNMAN]	afternoon	13:58
chem\|st	good morning [DarkGUNMAN]	13:59
chem\|st	shanttu: I do not know why the gpsstack doesn't do that automatically	13:59
chem\|st	shanttu: but ntpd should do...	13:59
[DarkGUNMAN]	I've got a good puzzle for someone.. how do you find which process is trying to open an internet connection?	14:00
shanttu	chem\|st, thanks. got updated using gps, just took a while	14:00
chem\|st	[DarkGUNMAN]: lsiten to dbus calls	14:00
[DarkGUNMAN]	dbus-monitor doesn't show anything	14:00
chem\|st	what do you need it for?	14:00
chem\|st	desktop widgets usually being set to autoupdate by default cause that	14:01
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[DarkGUNMAN]	maemo regularly tries to open an internet connection	14:02
chem\|st	shanttu: well it needs a valid cache to do so	14:02
[DarkGUNMAN]	thought it is not all the time	14:02
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chem\|st	frequently you mean	14:02
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[DarkGUNMAN]	yes, only during the day for some reason	14:03
chem\|st	[DarkGUNMAN]: I guess it is depending on which homescreen you are looking and one of the widgets you use wants to update	14:03
chem\|st	or you have set email update or something	14:03
[DarkGUNMAN]	only widgets i have in play are flipclock, connectnow, and a qbw to show IP address, not set to autoupdate, only on network trigger	14:04
[DarkGUNMAN]	modest is not set to update	14:04
[DarkGUNMAN]	and i removed cherry	14:04
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chem\|st	hmm	14:05
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chem\|st	log cpu usage and compare which one is hogging right before	14:06
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[DarkGUNMAN]	chem\|st - appart from watching htop is there a way to log this to a file.	14:21
[DarkGUNMAN]	i did notice that swap space jumped in use by 32mb	14:21
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DocScrutinizer51	re equalizer FIR, me and a guy nick HNK or NKH or sth like that looked into that like 1.5y ago. check chanlogs fo mixer chip name and FIR	14:27
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chem\|st	[DarkGUNMAN]: top snapshots to file	14:32
[DarkGUNMAN]	chem\|st - looks like modest is the culprit. shall i post here or pastebin?	14:34
chem\|st	pastebin	14:35
chem\|st	top -b -n1\|head -10\|tail -6	14:35
chem\|st	gives back 6 lines of top oftop	14:35
[DarkGUNMAN]	its an entry i found in dbus-monitor	14:36
chem\|st	so its email trying to connect	14:36
chem\|st	onliner you may paste here but more pastebin pls	14:37
chem\|st	oneliner	14:37
[DarkGUNMAN]	http://pastebin.com/AANDkp3c	14:37
[DarkGUNMAN]	i'm no expert but it looked likely to me	14:37
Jaffa	Oooh, exciting. I might be getting to go to OSCon in July	14:38
chem\|st	[DarkGUNMAN]: looks like a failing sendreceive request	14:38
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chem\|st	does it fail after you deny connection or just blank?	14:39
chem\|st	ok no it does it at mine too	14:39
[DarkGUNMAN]	I got this while connected (using x-chat)	14:40
[DarkGUNMAN]	so this is likely prompting the connection when offline?	14:40
chem\|st	I just got it by closing conversations	14:41
chem\|st	this has nothing to do with your connection request	14:41
[DarkGUNMAN]	modest is definetly not set to update automatically	14:41
[DarkGUNMAN]	ok. I guess a bit of bug hunting using top is the way to go.	14:42
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[DarkGUNMAN]	thank you for your time	14:42
chem\|st	logging the top 6 cpu hogging should be fair enough	14:44
chem\|st	don't write several files as you will get to your inode limit pretty fast	14:45
vi_	root	14:47
vi_	oops, wrong xterm	14:47
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dafox	chem\|st: I'm back. sorry again. That sounds interesting, so how far did you get?	14:57
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[DarkGUNMAN]	thanks again	14:58
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chem\|st	dafox: read DocScrutinizer51's reply above	15:11
dafox	chem\|st: yes, I was already looking through the logs, I was just curious how far you got with your pulseaudio equalizer :)	15:11
dafox	were you doing it in software or using those hw-filters?	15:12
chem\|st	I got it working for speakers only, as soon as something happened like incoming call or something the thing went crazy	15:12
chem\|st	software	15:12
chem\|st	AND it did keep the cpu at 99%	15:13
dafox	I'm reading here that the filters were not that powerful?	15:13
dafox	mm 100% cpu is maybe not so useful...	15:13
chem\|st	no idea, I just tried to get my earpiece adjusted....	15:13
chem\|st	it is always to low	15:13
freemangordon	chem\|st, ever tried to neon-optimize it?	15:14
chem\|st	so I thought to suppress and raise lvls to get speech cleared, I am not very good with PA, I also tried to network audio with pulse	15:15
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dafox	ugh yeah, it's hard to hear anything. I read that that was actually a fault in the hardware design though? As in they positioned the actual speaker some distance away from the speaker hole in the casing, and then there's a narrow path for the actual audio waves to travel through?	15:16
chem\|st	freemangordon: nope, never got to the stage of actually finding it any useful	15:16
freemangordon	chem\|st, that should make things 3-4 times faster for matrix operations	15:17
freemangordon	the same as with MMX/SSE	15:17
* freemangordon assumes chem\|st uses matrices for calculations		15:19
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chem\|st	true	15:29
chem\|st	I decided to stay with scripting instead of coding... at least s/t I actualy am able to do right^^	15:30
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DocScrutinizer51	good scripting is way harder than semi-decent coding	15:43
DocScrutinizer51	though abysmally bad code is way easier to create than terribly messed up scripts	15:43
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: just more my thing, especially as I needed to do alot of scripting for work, even learn a new scripting language	15:46
chem\|st	actually 3 new languages I never will use for anything else than those specifics	15:48
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chem\|st	~bq27200	16:34
chem\|st	~battery	16:34
infobot	methinks battery is made by Danionics http://www.danionics.com/products/icphh02.asp, or at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/questions.html#AEN744	16:34
chem\|st	~bme	16:34
infobot	hmm... bme is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME	16:34
ruskie	hmm is there any way on a N900 to restart all system apps(i.e. what comes up on a vanilla bootup) easily?	16:34
DocScrutinizer51	~listkeys bq27	16:34
infobot	Factoid search of 'bq27' by key returned no results.	16:34
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: I cannot remember what is what in bq27200.sh output...	16:41
chem\|st	CI: has to be zero or something is wrong I rember	16:41
DocScrutinizer51	yep	16:41
DocScrutinizer51	get bq27k-detail2 from my server	16:42
chem\|st	my battery went flat within minutes from showing like +50% charge	16:42
DocScrutinizer51	it has full epic length datasheet text	16:42
chem\|st	wohoo even register addresses^^	16:44
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chem\|st	at least I do not need to reset, I just need some charging cycles to reecover right?	16:45
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klea	chem\|st: just finished flashing rootfs>emmc>rootfs with battery removals and all, installed wireless-tools and..... same results with the wifi :-\|	16:50
klea	so it must be something else...	16:50
chem\|st	klea: different wifi APs tested, right?	16:52
klea	not yet but it still detects 2 APs out of the 20 that i have around...	16:53
chem\|st	SNR?	16:53
chem\|st	quality?	16:53
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klea	Bit Rate=1 Mb/s Link Quality= 10/100 Signal level=-88 dBm Noise Level =-91 dBm	16:58
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chem\|st	ok	17:07
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chem\|st	at least it is not something like -50dBm/-65dBm	17:09
chem\|st	cleaning antenna contacts would be my next aproach	17:10
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ShadowJK	resetting bq27200 would make battery go empty at around 50%	17:12
Hurrian	those are some horrible wifi perf metrics	17:12
chem\|st	ShadowJK: I didn't do nothing, I was listening to some music and it popped up with battery empty... I had a reboot in that cycle, always there is wrong reading after that and I am wondering why	17:14
chem\|st	well bme sucks I know	17:14
ShadowJK	bme resets on reboot	17:15
ShadowJK	and doesn't use data from bq27200	17:15
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klea	chem\|st: ok, i suppose that once I get inside there is something that can be actually cleaned... but first i have to find a way to remove these torx screws :)	17:19
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vi_	klea torx screw driver works pretty good	17:20
chem\|st	lol	17:20
klea	:)	17:21
chem\|st	klea: rub the springs on a clean sheet of blank paper and use a qtip for the PCB contacts	17:21
klea	yeap, if u have one :)	17:21
klea	chem\|st: ok, thanx, i'll keep a note of that	17:23
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vi_	klea: it is worth buying a torx driver for this task. Other wise you will mangle the head	17:36
vi_	you can them on ebay for like 1 euro.	17:37
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dafox	chem\|st: wouldn't -65 be better than -88	17:40
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chem\|st	in terms of noise? I have -55/-108 SNR	17:45
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dafox	no, in terms of reception power (signal level). The noise level (-91dBm) seems ok, but the reception is very poor (at only -88dBm)	18:28
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dafox	where can one see these stats btw?	18:30
kwtm	Hi. Is there an application that will keep reminding me every 15 minutes that there is a SMS (and possibly email) that I have not yet checked?	18:30
vi_	There is but it is wriiten in python and chores your battery.	18:37
beford	i would hate an app like that	18:37
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fw190	hello	18:39
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fw190	Could someone please check if mamo flasher can be downloaded?	18:39
fw190	I have a problem with it	18:39
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dafox	ok, apt-get install wireless-tools, then iwconfig tells me -70 / -94 snr	18:43
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chem\|st	fw190: which one?	18:52
chem\|st	fw190: tried 3 all work	18:53
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chem\|st	you are here, right? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	18:53
fw190	yes	18:54
chem\|st	something wrong on your end! try wget	18:54
dafox	grr. Has anyone figured out a way to get MfE to work again after "error in communication with exchange server" without rebooting? Like removing some files or killing some process?	18:55
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chem\|st	dafox: -72/-96 35% at 54Mb/s I have with powermanagement on, 10mW	18:56
fw190	well chromium didn't want to download it	18:56
chem\|st	wget?	18:56
fw190	bu firefox did the trick	18:56
fw190	thank you for your help	18:56
fw190	no	18:57
chem\|st	kk	18:57
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fw190	I do not know ow to wget	18:57
fw190	;)	18:57
chem\|st	fw190: windows7?	18:57
dafox	chem\|st: yes, more or less the same for me. Quality reading says ~35/100 . So 88 is really too few :)	18:57
chem\|st	64bit?	18:57
fw190	ubuntu 12.04 but I'm a linux noob	18:57
fw190	just a user	18:57
chem\|st	dafox: that is my usual reception at work...	18:57
fw190	firefox failed to	18:57
chem\|st	there is something wrong on your end	18:58
chem\|st	open a terminal and enter:	18:58
chem\|st	wget http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb	18:58
chem\|st	mkdir maemo	18:59
chem\|st	mv maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb maemo/	18:59
chem\|st	cd maemo	18:59
chem\|st	dpkg -x maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb	19:00
chem\|st	each line is commited by hitting enter...	19:00
chem\|st	gtg l8er	19:01
fw190	thank you for you help	19:01
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DocScrutinizer51	+q !@* ?	21:48
DocScrutinizer51	~botsnack	21:50
infobot	:), DocScrutinizer51	21:50
DocScrutinizer51	I should teach er to send a	21:50
DocScrutinizer51	--- MARK ---	21:50
DocScrutinizer51	line every 60min without any post	21:50
DocScrutinizer51	~attack chem\|st	21:51
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing chem\|st		21:51
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infobot	--- MARK ---	21:53
DocScrutinizer51	klea: I still think your environment is the culprit, not your WLAN antenna	22:00
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chem\|st	re	22:01
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: o/	22:02
chem\|st	~feed DocScrutinizer51	22:02
* infobot offers DocScrutinizer51 some toe-jam		22:02
DocScrutinizer51	yummy, toes in jelly	22:02
chem\|st	you become a diva if you are hungry	22:02
chem\|st	:)	22:02
DocScrutinizer51	:-D	22:03
Raimu	Jelly-dipped toes in mouth?	22:03
chem\|st	well his SNR looks fine	22:03
chem\|st	I am wondering what the problem is,	22:03
DocScrutinizer51	chem\|st: doesn't meaqn much, THD alias cross-intermodulation	22:04
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chem\|st	grml wanted to have some offline life tonight but it is raining cats	22:04
DocScrutinizer51	can happen with strong nearby signals that are not (or are) WLAN	22:04
chem\|st	switching channels might help yes	22:04
chem\|st	you should havve a look on all others and pick a channel close to the weakest	22:05
DocScrutinizer51	not many users are aware a single AP occupies 3 cahnnels up and 3 down from center channel	22:05
chem\|st	my neighbourhood scramples wlan/gsm/umts/cable	22:06
DocScrutinizer51	WLAN modulation width is much wider than channel spacing	22:06
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chem\|st	scramble..	22:06
DocScrutinizer51	get WiFi-Eye, it's awesome	22:07
DocScrutinizer51	a really really decent tool	22:07
DocScrutinizer51	done by a devel who knew his shit	22:07
chem\|st	quiet frequently a guy of our cable company is walking around trying to find the spot where wifi and stuff is interfering most to put on some extra shielding	22:07
chem\|st	got wifi-eye	22:07
DocScrutinizer51	the graphic display is instantly intuitive	22:08
chem\|st	yes	22:08
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DocScrutinizer51	but still it doesn't show the leaking microwave oven in your neighbour's kitchen	22:10
vi_____	...use channel 14.	22:11
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DocScrutinizer51	for a reference: I get sth like -56dBm a 100cm away from my AP	22:11
vi_____	also at 20MHz channel width...	22:12
DocScrutinizer51	[11:57:22] <DocScrutinizer51> WTF my t900 doesn't know about chan13 :-S	22:12
DocScrutinizer51	[11:58:11] <DocScrutinizer51> switched AP to chan13, IroN900 not even lost connection, T900 doesn't see AP anymore	22:12
vi_____	and 5MHz spacing per channel.	22:13
vi_____	implies 2 channels up and down.	22:13
DocScrutinizer51	well, since other AP would also use 20MHz, that means you need at least 3 'unused' chan for separating	22:14
DocScrutinizer51	vi_____: it's not like AP WLAN just spams the neighbour chans, it actually uses them - also for RX	22:15
DocScrutinizer51	basic rule: if your modulation is X wide, you need X as minimum real chan spacing	22:16
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DocScrutinizer51	this would mean 4 times 5 MHz skip to center of next neighbour AP freq	22:18
DocScrutinizer51	which, in my book, equals 3 "unused" channels	22:19
DocScrutinizer51	don't mess with an EE ;-P	22:20
DocScrutinizer51	vi_____: esp not with a badass EE like me ;-)	22:22
DocScrutinizer51	vi_____: I'm temped to kick you, just to see if your e-peen gets longer or shorter on rejoin	22:22
DocScrutinizer51	;-P	22:22
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DocScrutinizer51	vi_{5}: this is really nasty!	22:23
Estel_	vi_, in this channel discussion, DocScrutinizer is right.	22:23
Estel_	standard sewttingsa have only 3 totally non-interferring channels	22:24
Estel_	ho ever, klea problem soudns like ep[rfect example of lack of contact with antenna	22:24
Estel_	he got -69 holding device 10 cm from AP, and -89 when holding it 3 meters away	22:24
Estel_	tyr to unscrew You N900 wifi antenna totally, and You'll have same resulots	22:25
DocScrutinizer51	that's a bit low	22:25
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DocScrutinizer51	for the 3m	22:25
Estel_	blaming bleeblaming bleeding-edge drivers ias bullshit, they're well tested, but he also tried stockj	22:25
Estel_	yea	22:25
Estel_	and very high drop with distance	22:26
DocScrutinizer51	for 10cm I'd not be surprised his RX amp gets so terribly into clipping that no detection of AP is possible :-P	22:26
Estel_	IIRC, N900 without antenna at all act like that	22:26
Estel_	of course	22:26
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Estel_	still, I'm pretty sure it's not software related	22:26
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Estel_	...as long as I can be sure investigating it from IRC :P	22:27
Estel_	BTw, Currently, i've 5 N900's in front of me	22:27
DocScrutinizer51	and quite obviously RX clipping would cause massive intermodulation and thus the WiFi wouldn't see any AP then	22:27
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, yep.	22:27
Estel_	...and I'm planning to run qtflow on it, then create something like inter-screen flow :P	22:28
Estel_	will try to film it, as a kind of gail to lcuk	22:28
Estel_	hail	22:28
DocScrutinizer51	nah, that's definitely not a sw problem	22:28
* Estel_ loads updated writing modules from KP		22:28
Estel_	anti-typo check 2.0 loaded	22:28
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DocScrutinizer51	that's either an environment with way too many BT and WLAN messing up everything, or even a leaking microwave or door-radar, or actually a broken antenna (least probable alternative)	22:29
Estel_	Hm, broken antenna OR broken contact with antenna is most likely thing here.	22:29
Estel_	easy test	22:29
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Estel_	unscrew 6 screws, open N900, stick fork to antenna contacts :P	22:30
Estel_	if reception will improve, it's antenna.	22:30
DocScrutinizer51	meh	22:30
DocScrutinizer51	the hosiden or whatever test connector might be defect	22:30
DocScrutinizer51	seen this many many times	22:31
DocScrutinizer51	those friggin things are built and designed and specified for max 50 rounds	22:32
DocScrutinizer51	so odds are a certain percentage breaks on first round	22:32
DocScrutinizer51	another non-negligible percentage breaks on mere aging	22:33
DocScrutinizer51	waaaay more frequent defect than contact spring of antenna getting 'dirty'	22:33
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Estel_	no,I don't mean that.	22:34
Estel_	Hirose connectors are fragile, don't put fork nthere	22:34
DocScrutinizer51	anyway you're aware BT and WLAN share one antenna?	22:34
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Estel_	I mean "stick fork to copper spring on N900 MB"	22:34
Estel_	yes	22:34
MohammadAG	whoever decided that's sane...	22:34
DocScrutinizer51	what?	22:34
DocScrutinizer51	sharing antenna? absolutely sane	22:35
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, that's why i'm designing adapter in N900's body replacement - user will need to connect it to hirose connectors only once...	22:35
MohammadAG	in terms of device size and power, yes, in terms of everything else	22:35
Estel_	And gain plugs for external antenna in outside of N900's body :)	22:35
Estel_	MohammadAG, it's not like that.	22:35
Estel_	Wifi and bt use samke frequency, almost	22:35
Estel_	uusing one antenna is very OK, and don't affect performance.	22:36
Estel_	if You don't like that, blame BT for using 2,4 at all :P	22:36
MohammadAG	download a big file while listening to music over BT	22:36
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: it's absolutely irrelevant if you are using same antenna, or two separate antennae that aren't (separate)	22:36
Estel_	MohammadAG, using 2 antennas won't help there	22:36
Estel_	still both antennas will pick up same frequency	22:36
MohammadAG	then why does the N900 perform terribly there?	22:36
DocScrutinizer51	Estel_: yep	22:36
MohammadAG	whereas other devices don't	22:36
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: every device does	22:36
Estel_	MohammadAG, smart BT devices "know" how to cooperate with wlan	22:37
Estel_	N900's BT is also able to do that, but it depends on peripheral device	22:37
Estel_	i.e. headphone	22:37
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DocScrutinizer51	there's so called n-wire-coexistence	22:37
DocScrutinizer51	where n = [2, 3, 4]	22:37
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer51: switched channel... hit a bug... no TX anymore...	22:37
Estel_	BTW, it's strange, I've tested it with definitelly not smart BT adapters, and listening to music was making 0 perceveiable impact on my WLAN	22:37
Estel_	chem\|st, it's becauise You use sucking stock kernel	22:38
MohammadAG	Then my antenna's crappy	22:38
MohammadAG	or defective	22:38
Estel_	drop ash into Your head and install KP50 again in Your sister's N900	22:38
Estel_	MohammadAG, not related to antenna	22:38
MohammadAG	I was sending a file over BT once, and connecting to WLAN killed it	22:38
Estel_	blame 2nd bluetooth device	22:38
MohammadAG	an N900	22:38
Estel_	and/or drivers, with coexistence disabled	22:38
Estel_	BT coexistence with wlan require strict cooperation in terms of software and hardware. N900 got everything setup properly	22:39
Estel_	and it's proven to work on correct setup	22:39
Estel_	I think that Your 2nd device bluetooth module OR drivers/software settings were bad.	22:39
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Estel_	argh, damn google	22:41
Estel_	it buggy me every 5 logins to give them my phone number	22:41
Estel_	GTFO	22:41
* Estel_ by google, mean gmail		22:41
Estel_	s/mean/means/	22:41
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Raimu	First I was wondering about the "drop ash" comment, but then I recalled it's a gesture of shame.	22:43
Raimu	Sack cloth and ashes, like.	22:43
DocScrutinizer51	F U Lenovo, PSU case is glued	22:44
Raimu	I don't know whether it's prevalent in the English language, though. :D	22:44
DocScrutinizer51	I wondered if he assumed chem\|st has messybox installed in his brain ;-P	22:46
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DocScrutinizer51	though from IT I don't know the term "drop into", I'd rather think of the database term "drop table" which more is like delete rather than install	22:49
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DocScrutinizer51	so "drop ash" doesn't make sense, "drop busybox" would	22:50
* DocScrutinizer51 can't decide between scissors and hammer to 'repair' that Lenovo PSU		22:51
vi_____	your going to 'fix' a switch mode psu with a hammer?	22:57
Raimu	This sounds interesting.	22:57
vi_____	if you are such a hot EE, explain PFC in 3 or less sentances.	22:58
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Raimu	Power factor correction, sentence 1: AC electricity is funny and gets angry when used on inconvenient-type loads.	23:03
Raimu	Sentence 2: ??? Sentence 3: Profit	23:04
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Raimu	(I had to cheat and look this up, because I think I dozed through our AC classes way back when) Basically PFC is a filtering placed on a power supply that makes it draw current the way an ideal resistive load would.	23:09
Raimu	"In this case, the voltage and current are in phase and the reactive power consumption is zero."	23:10
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vi_____	that is the bit that breaks my head	23:18
vi_____	the voltage an current are in phase.	23:18
vi_____	wtf	23:18
vi_____	how can the be out of phase	23:18
vi_____	^they	23:18
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Raimu	Long ago I think I mainly just accepted that AC is scary and weird.	23:20
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vi_____	I heard it is made of magnets.	23:24
Raimu	"Fucking magnets, how do they work?"	23:24
vi_____	PFC I think.	23:26
Raimu	:D	23:26
vi_____	PFC is about as hard to grasp as VM tuning.	23:26
MohammadAG	speaking of wihch	23:29
MohammadAG	which	23:29
MohammadAG	what would happen if I connect an AC circuit to a DC one?	23:29
DocScrutinizer51	you invented a new rockmusic group	23:30
Raimu	rimshot	23:30
Raimu	MohammadAG: This one is easily tested! Some alligator clips, wire, wall AC socket and a DC battery.	23:31
DocScrutinizer51	PSU won't usually mind	23:32
DocScrutinizer51	good old iron core tranformers though	23:32
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer51> you invented a new rockmusic group	23:32
MohammadAG	heh	23:32
DocScrutinizer51	~wiki AC/DC	23:33
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC/DC (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About\|the band}} {{Use Australian English\|date=November 2011}}{{Use dmy dates\|date=November 2011}} {{Featured article}} {{pp-move-indef}} {{Infobox musical artist \| name = AC/DC \| image = ACDC In Tacoma 2009.jpg \| alt = Rock band in performance on a well-lit but hazy stage. At the back is a guitarist; there are two more guitarists, a vocalist off to one side, and a drummer in the rear. ...	23:33
DocScrutinizer51	oops, seems it's not THAT new	23:34
doc\|home	o.O	23:36
Raimu	The developer of qSpot ran into a snag when Spotify updated libspotify (a closed binary API) and now it depends on glibc 2.7 instead of an earlier one we've got with Maemo.	23:38
Raimu	How could one work over this?	23:38
DocScrutinizer51	well, generally libs either are ABI compatible, or have distinct names	23:40
DocScrutinizer51	if somebody messed things up there, you can start your stuff with "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./here/my/glib-version/ <spotify-app>"	23:41
DocScrutinizer51	maybe you need to fix some minor typos in my suggestions	23:42
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DocScrutinizer51	man ld-linux	23:45
DocScrutinizer51	or even /lib/ld-linux.so.* [OPTIONS] [PROGRAM [ARGUMENTS]]	23:46
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DocScrutinizer51	anyway WTF does this app depend on glibc2.7 at all?	23:49
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, who doesn't know AC/DC?	23:49
Raimu	DocScrutinizer51: libspotify? Hell if I know.	23:49
DocScrutinizer51	you could try and just create a symlink	23:50
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MohammadAG	LD_LIBRARY_PATH is the way to go	23:50
MohammadAG	assuming glibc 2.7 compiles	23:50
DocScrutinizer51	back to whatever version glibc you got	23:50
Raimu	DocScrutinizer51: And pray for compatibility?	23:50
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DocScrutinizer51	sure	23:51
Raimu	I've done that once with dependencies...	23:51
Raimu	It felt shameful.	23:51
DocScrutinizer51	praying helps I've been told - if you pray to the right diety	23:51
DocScrutinizer51	if it doesn't, you either reconsider your choice of diety, or you sacrifice a hamster	23:53
MohammadAG	OVER MY DEAD BODY!	23:53
Raimu	If my microwave oven has been blessed by my deity, sure.	23:53
Raimu	I need to check that with an exorcist or something.	23:53
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Raimu	Anyway, thanks. I'll test and relay the info.	23:55
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