IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-05-30

Estel_well, long-time contributors like when they worjk is recognized and, even, rewqarded, You know that?:P00:00
Estel_DocScrutinizer, of course, but getting prize for volounteering, as recognition of Your work, as always neat thing.00:00
Paliobs does not allow to use new/update gcc?00:00
Estel_BTw, no once forces anyone to submit.00:00
Estel_So, don't speak for contributors, to "don't do anything to them"00:00
Estel_they're doing it to themselves :D00:00
Estel_by submitting00:01
Estel_we just help the, to achieve IT00:01
Estel_pun intended.00:01
freemangordonPali, how am I supposed to know?00:01
Paliwho know status of obs?00:01
DocScrutinizer51sorry, I don't see any aim00:01
Estel_freemangordon, Pali, probably COBs will use new GCC00:01
Estel_Pali, freemangordon, people @ #maemo-meeting00:01
Estel_(who know status)00:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, nokia needs warehouse space to stack new generations of lumia phones00:02
Estel_freemangordon, ;P00:02
Palibut there is nobody active now on #maemo-meeting I think00:02
DocScrutinizer51but then, whatever the aim, it won't fly with 25 devices anyway, unless it's been the aim to crreate traffic on the lists and in IRC and tmo00:02
Estel_Pali, they have usual meeting every monday @ 15 UTC00:02
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Estel_but, unusually, this week meeting was held today @ 15 UTC00:02
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: that's the whole point, no kidding00:02
Estel_due to request on mailing list00:02
Estel_new meeting as usual 15 UTc monday00:02
Estel_Pali, you can always reach them on mailing list00:02
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, I was not kidding00:02
Estel_DocScrutinizer, frankly, if they're not doing such programs, people complain. If they're doing it, people also complaing00:03
Estel_I'm, for one, happy, that they're proposing us N950's and N9's00:03
Estel_instead of lumnias00:03
DocScrutinizer51well, I haven't seen anybody complaining yet00:03
Estel_no, seriously :D no one is complaining :D00:04
Estel_it's jsut Your usual behavior :D00:04
vi___estel you wait till there are no prizes left.00:04
vi___there will be complaints00:04
DocScrutinizer51exactly - and it's again a nice example why I get upset about your argumentations00:04
Estel_vi_, probably ;)00:04
DocScrutinizer51I just dared to ask what's the AIM, FFS00:05
DocScrutinizer51now in your weird little world that's identical to complaining00:05
Estel_<DocScrutinizer51> 25 friggin devices, and 2500 fools applying "I just heard there's a thing called meamo (sic!) and there are devices for free. CAN I HAZ ONE PLZ?!"00:05
Estel_no complaining. absolutely. Not at all :P00:05
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DocScrutinizer51no complaint detected00:06
Estel_Well, i think GeneralAntilles is right00:06
vi___DocScrutinizer51: when you enquire as to the aim do you actually mean, 'what is nokias motivation when throwing these devices in the bin would be 100* less trouble'?00:06
Estel_if you're afraid people that don't deserve it could get one, convince people that deserve it to submit00:06
Estel_and trust us on that (tm), we will choose right people from submissions00:06
DocScrutinizer51vi___: basically yes00:06
vi___DocScrutinizer51: I wonder the same thing.00:07
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: I'm afraid of nuttin, except maybe losing my mind in debates with you00:07
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: again, I couldn't bother less about that whole CA stuff, I'm not even interested in another device00:08
vi___they stand to gain nothing except a little bit of favour with literally 10s of nerds on a strange corner of the internet.00:08
DocScrutinizer51I'm just interested in people and their motivation, as I'm not one of those who think they already *know* what other people think and do00:08
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, who cares? Free devices.00:09
DocScrutinizer51free noise everywhere00:09
GeneralAntillesHit the mute button, then.00:09
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon said "I think we got more serious problems than [that]"00:10
vi___Estel_: how long do I have to offer the nokia the opportunity to give me an n950?00:11
freemangordonyeah, thumb2 compiled binaries, freshly (and not so) downloaded from
DocScrutinizer51and isn't it quite interesting and enlightening what newly elected council considers their highest priority first task they tackle?00:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, that was a legacy from the previous council, with deadlines already set up, etc00:12
vi___freemangordon: in 1 sentance if you could.  How does thumb2 effect us n900 users?00:13
freemangordonvi___, where you've been for the last 8 months?00:13
freemangordonit is broken on n90000:14
freemangordonwitha an workaround in kernel00:14
DocScrutinizer51vi___: it's not working on our OMAP3530, and if it would, we could create smaller but possibly slower code for everything00:14
freemangordonand the only kernel so far to have working workaround is kernel-cssu, flashed on 3 devices AFAIK (2 mine, and 1 Pali's)00:15
DocScrutinizer51vi___: this been the ultraterse somewhat not comprehensive fuzzy answer00:15
freemangordonvi___, on a (broken omap core)devices running kernel without that workaround it leads to to a random SIGILLs (not only in thumb-compiled code, but also in ordinary ARM code)00:17
Estel_vi_, it's going to give us more RAM00:17
Estel_no, seriously. not joking.00:17
Estel_programs executables will have smaller footprint00:17
Estel_loaded in RAM00:17
Estel_= less RAM usage00:18
vi___Estel_: orly? i thought more RAM was the only thing that would give us more ram00:18
Estel_vi, due to silicon errors we can';t use thumb2 without errata fixes00:18
freemangordonvi__, well more FREE RAM00:18
Estel_freemangordon as first perosn working on this SoC mad eit work properly00:18
Estel_as, al;l people before him, used it wrong way, thinking that it is in effect, but still buggy00:19
vi___freemangordon: I was aware thumb2 was broken, thats why I asked.00:19
freemangordonEstel_, limit that to n90000:19
Estel_so FUD arose, that thumb2 on our SoC and N900a t all is not possible00:19
vi___but it is?00:19
freemangordonI have NFC what those guys on BB hade achieved00:19
Estel_vi_, in fact, former methods to enable errata's workaround were broken00:19
Estel_freemangordon, nothing00:19
Estel_as on bb You got info that it's not possible00:19
Estel_and when You asked why, they answered00:19
vi___what is bb?00:20
Estel_"because it isn't, go and buy better SoC"00:20
vi___so thumb2 works on bb00:20
vi___but not n90000:20
Estel_freemangordon, BTw, yesterday DocScrutinizer asked me about details of Your fix for Sr on N90 0for up to 900 mhz00:20
Estel_could You explain details to him?00:20
Estel_he wasn't aware of that, due to sitting on kp46, IIRC00:20
freemangordonEstel_, I know what I got as an answer, but that were some random (even famous) guys hanging on the channel00:20
Estel_freemangordon, I know00:21
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: please stop that now - definitely!!00:21
Estel_I'mexplaining it to vi as terse "raport"00:21
Estel_DocScrutinizer, what?00:21
Estel_yesterdsya You asked me abut it, and I told You that freemangordon know details better00:21
DocScrutinizer51I AM NOt SITTINg ON KP46!!!00:21
Estel_well, that's what You've said yesterday, not that I care?00:21
DocScrutinizer51stop spreading utter lies and bullshit!!!00:21
Estel_erm, it would be spreading FUD if I weould be talking it behind Your back00:22
Estel_You're here, so feel free to correct, without unnecessary andrenalina bursts00:22
freemangordonvi__, part of the fix is setting a bit in a register in system control co-processosr, but as n900 is high-secure device, that register is accessible only through call to ,hmm, lets name it BIOS00:22
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freemangordonWhich I was lucky to discover :)00:23
MrPinguHmm, I have seen an uname of kp46 yesterday, can't remember from who though00:23
freemangordonMrPingu, that was DocScrutinizer5100:23
Estel_MrPingu, from DocScrutinizer ;)00:23
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: ignore Estel_, he'll never be able to learn it as he refuses to wash his yellow pullover he is wearing all day and all night, since 15 years00:23
Estel_apparently, DocScrutinizer51 is not DocScrutinizer. DocScrutinizer, dob';t get angry, I'm jok9ing now.00:24
MrPinguWhat's with you guys? :O00:24
Estel_In my humble and fully personal opinion, which doesn't apply to be ultimately correct...00:24
Estel_DocScrutinizer, is jsut overreactive as hell00:24
Estel_+ hard in discussions, where not everyone agrees with his point of view.00:25
Estel_AFK for 15 minutes or so ;)00:25
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Woody14619MrPingu, They've both been spending a few hours screaming at each other like 4 year olds... nothing new...00:25
DocScrutinizer51I'm just ultimately fed up with you spreading lies about me00:25
freemangordonvi__, so, most probably (yet to be proven) we have a completely stable thumb2 on n90000:25
DocScrutinizer51and I hate your stinking yellow shirt00:26
Woody14619So... the FB lib is thumb2?  That would explain why it's crapping out for some randomly.00:26
freemangordonvi__, actually i have few packages on my primary device thumb-compiled (Qt, gtk, h-d, stuff like that) for some time00:26
freemangordonWoody14619, yeah ;)00:27
Woody14619friggin awesome. :P00:27
freemangordonWoody14619, actually it is the sharing plugin00:27
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: exactly what I said ;-D00:27
MrPinguWhat do you mean exactly with crapping out? I sometimes get that upload error with reason :P00:27
Palifreemangordon, we should ask people who working on OBS if they can add more gcc versions to OBS (one recent for thumb2)00:27
Woody14619So... Looks like a reasonable reason to push the thumb2 patch into KP51?  This would affect a core component that most people use...00:28
MrPinguNow it's fully broken though :(00:28
freemangordonPali, I don't think it is that easy, new gcc means ne libstdc++00:28
freemangordonMrPingu, patience is the word :P00:28
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: we don't need any reason to push that into kp5100:28
DocScrutinizer51it's already on its way00:28
freemangordonhmm, it is not about KP51, but about the rest00:29
Palibut if obs will be up, it will be possible to create thumb repo with updated libstdc++...00:29
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Woody14619freemangordon, the rest?  (Sorry, been out of the loop a few days)00:29
DocScrutinizer51Woody14619: freemangordon accepted my suggestion to allow switching this patch on and off at runtime, so no speed penalty for flushing branch prediction will hit those who don't need the thumb patch00:30
Woody14619btw, I was here for OBS meeting... Work progresses....00:30
freemangordonPali, of course, but are you sure newer libstc++ from OBS will be ABI compatible with maemo5?00:30
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freemangordonI am not saying it will be not, just asking00:30
PaliI think that new version of libstdc++ is not removing sysmbols00:31
freemangordonwell, I was thinking the same00:31
Paliso it could be backward compatible00:31
MrPinguFreemangordon: I am, sometimes but it was more a statement :) I know you are working on it, as for that version from ghost repo :P00:31
Paliwith maemo obs it should be simple to test that...00:32
freemangordonat least libstdc++ coming with gcc 4.6.2 lives happily on my device for 6 months or so00:32
Woody14619stskeeps has been working on a SB2 version
MrPingu6 months is half a year, I would have rendered it stable ;&00:33
Palifreemangordon, when building gcc you can specify default gcc flags. so creating thumb repo on obs should be simple if they provide thum gcc toolchain00:33
freemangordonWoody14619, do you have any ide which gcc it will be?00:34
Woody14619No... didn't think to ask, and it wasn't mentioned.00:34
Palieach package which will be compiled by that gcc will be automatically thumb without needing to modify debian/rules file00:34
freemangordonPali, yaeh, at least on theory00:35
Woody14619Pali, is that a good thing, or a bad thing? :S00:35
vi___now I know EXACTLY what a BIOS is.  Can you explain what you meant by bios in the n900 context?00:35
PaliWoody14619, this allow to create thumb deb package without needing to modify source package00:36
DocScrutinizer51for CSSU official flavours, it's definitely a very bad thing if we can't use another certified compiler for that00:36
PaliDocScrutinizer51, my idea is to choose compiler for repository00:36
Woody14619I guess good if you want the fix in & take the potential speed hit(s), but bad if you don't?00:36
freemangordonvi__, absolutely the same, it is a ROM code with an API. It is the first thing to be loaded after power-on AFAIK00:36
DocScrutinizer51that should work00:36
Paliso to create testing repo with our thumb compiler00:37
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Paliand I think OBS could support it00:37
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: well, that's ROMBL00:37
DocScrutinizer51or ROMBOOT00:37
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, agree, what I am calling is PPA, but it isin ROM as well00:38
vi___But a ROM is just a data store.00:38
vi___it has no smarta00:38
freemangordonvi__, PPA stands for Primary Protected Application, that signed with nokia keys, etc00:39
freemangordonvi__, there is secure RAM area in OMAP00:39
vi___so there is a system co-processor who has a control register that has a switch for enabling/disabling tumb200:40
freemangordonvi__, there is a special instruction(SMC, stands for secure monitor call) to call PPA or HAL API. The code in PPA is executed in secure priviledged mode, and have a full access to HW00:41
DocScrutinizer51no coproc00:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, according to ARM terms it is a co-processor00:41
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freemangordonwell, 15 of them00:41
vi___a co-processor on the same chip?00:41
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Woody14619.oO(As much as a PDP11 was a co-processor for a Vax)00:42
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DocScrutinizer51it's a SoC00:42
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freemangordonyeah, it is a SoC00:42
vi___I majored in VHDL.00:42
DocScrutinizer51aaaah yes you might be right, I seem to recall security processor in our modem at work (Also ARM)00:43
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freemangordonsystem control coprocessor that is00:43
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vi___so is thumb2 broken or not then?00:44
freemangordonvi__, it is a bit more complicated than that, check here
freemangordonthat is the worksround which is supposed to fix it00:44
vi___aah thank you, a little light reading.00:44
DocScrutinizer51anyway it's basically nothing different to age old software interrupts that allow userland process to request root land stuff to be executed by a system library00:45
freemangordon:nod: that is wahy I used BIOS term00:45
DocScrutinizer51I understrood quite fine00:45
DocScrutinizer51ask RST38h ;-D00:46
freemangordonvi___, but it does not work on n900, as "IBE Bit" is not accessible from kernel, so theat kernel patch does nothing00:46
DocScrutinizer51there's something even more privileged than kernel though00:47
DocScrutinizer51which can do it according to freemangordon00:47
freemangordonvi__, now, what I was lucky to find is the correct "int 2Fh" function to call to set that bit00:48
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, it is not according to me, it is according to MCR on ACR00:48
DocScrutinizer51:-) sure00:48
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DocScrutinizer51I just have no idea what those TLA mean00:49
freemangordonMCR is instruction to read a coprocessor register to MPU register00:49
freemangordonACR is aux control regiter (the register in question)00:49
freemangordonkernel can read it, but cannot write it, write op end as NOP00:49
DocScrutinizer51well, the code to do that magic on int 2f has to be in ROM code though00:50
vi___DocScrutinizer51: now that I understand00:50
vi___5he dos interrupts thing that is00:50
freemangordonyeah. the sweet part is that it is described in TRM :P00:50
DocScrutinizer51a proper pointer would help a lot00:51
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, gimme a minute to open the TRM00:51
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DocScrutinizer51take your time, I'm taking mine to get me a beer before I go to sleep00:52
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, 25.4 Device Initialization by ROM Code00:52
freemangordonfunction 300:52
vi___define: trm00:52
DocScrutinizer51tech ref manual00:53
freemangordonTechnical Reference Manual00:53
DocScrutinizer51~wtf trm00:53
infobotGee...  I don't know what trm means...00:53
vi___aah, da datasheet00:53
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: my sisters device was borked, flashing emmc and combined did not work... as rootfs was borked ahead00:53
DocScrutinizer51well, if you call 3000+ pages a sheet ;-P00:53
vi___there are lies.  Damn lies.  Statistics.  Then there are datasheets.00:53
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, and for more reference you may want to look at BB init in u-boot :P00:54
vi___I thought the 8051 manual was epic00:54
vi___at ~30000:54
Estel_Woody14619, hello back in the civilization :D00:54
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Estel_seriously though, I hope You enjoyed Your wilderness trip00:54
freemangordonvi___, exactly 3454 according to acrobat reader :D00:55
Estel_you msised great fun with people submitting to Ca awards00:55
Estel_...few argues with DocScrutinizer, and some aweosme development ;)00:55
DocScrutinizer51vi___: and for h-e-n I had to visit some half dozen versions of that00:55
freemangordonvi__, other questions?00:55
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vi___How do magnets work?00:56
Estel_honestly, I admire DocScrutinizer for reading that (re hostmode), it's like reading phone book00:56
Estel_magnetrs? Those thing that have a soul cursed inside, to reach invisible hands and pull things?00:56
freemangordonhmm, sounds sane00:56
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vi___magnet!=cursed touch stone00:56
Estel_freemangordon, how You've found this in 3454 pages document?00:56
Estel_using searchj?00:57
Estel_or doing voodoo rituals?00:57
freemangordonEstel_, I made it work first, then I started to search a rationale :D00:57
Estel_:) this is how I like things to be done00:57
Estel_probably, that's is why i'marguing with DocScrutinizer  all the time00:57
Estel_different life philosophies ;P00:57
vi___freemangordon: employers are going to have to fight for the right to employ pali and yourself.00:57
Estel_yea, in mud00:58
Estel_but only if they're female employers00:58
vi___I hope you are righting all these acheivments down.00:58
freemangordonnah, I am ok where I am right now00:58
Estel_freemangordon for president ;)00:58
freemangordonwriting? yes, in source code00:58
freemangordondamn, I am a developer, not a writer :P00:59
Estel_You need a agent ;)00:59
DocScrutinizer51no, a pimp00:59
vi___srsly, graduates are 10 per euro cent. programmers with proof are hard to get.00:59
Estel_vi_, don't put him in self-admiratiuon too much :p01:00
freemangordonwell, thats a problem Pali have to solve in a few years :D01:00
Estel_or he is even going to connect N950's FMTX to antenna via kernel.01:00
freemangordonEstel_, no way, I am already on the limit01:00
Estel_freemangordon, one guy submitting to program, was using hisN9 things as rationale...01:00
Estel_and have 'kernel development'01:01
Estel_ specified in profile01:01
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Estel_maybe I should bribe him?:P01:01
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freemangordonEstel_, if he is a developer and have a will to work on n900 kernel why not?01:02
freemangordonbut his device have to be under a condition :D01:02
Estel_yea... i;m afraid the second part is not true :(01:02
Estel_one guy made better rationale than Pali for getting N95001:02
Estel_"I have n900 and n9, event my n900 died now, i have to save more money(Indonesia has bad monetary system) i would like to be an N950 owner, what a pride and priceless moment when i hold n950, and i hope nokia continue to develope it, and maybe its become main product of nokia, so i make a wish, and your all great, what the meaning of maemo without this superb community, bravo"01:02
Estel_I think he deserves N950 just because indonesia have bad monetary system :(01:03
freemangordondamn, its 1 am here01:03
freemangordongtg gyus, bb01:03
Estel_(i'm not laughing behind someone's back - all those bullshit is send to public mailing list)01:03
MrPinguHmm I deserve one because I have a bad monetary system?01:03
Estel_see ya freemangordon01:03
MrPingugood night!01:03
Estel_MrPingu, see that:01:04
Estel_"Im so proud when hold my first N900, reading, and watching youtube everyday about maemo(dualboot, etc), and then finally managed to get one after saving my money and i love it!! , after 4 months hold n900, disaster comings, my son play it around and throw my n900 into the water, and its died, soon i manage to get an N9(even its rare and hard to find here), as long as i held maemo device, i much and much learning from this community, what the meaning of01:04
Estel_ real-power of linux and other stuff too, actually im working at samsung gallery, but falling in love with maemo and cant understand why nokia abando it, so im gonna be a little dust of your community, lets keep it alive, long live maemo, you are all awesome!!!"01:04
Estel_we should get a 3-4 Nokia's 1100 for "recognizing" nominations like that01:05
Woody14619huh?  bad monetrary system = device is about as bad an idea as governance by having a sword given to you by a spirit in a lake....01:05
Woody14619.oO("You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!")01:06
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MrPinguI am still thinking what my "story" would be01:06
Estel_poor people with N900 dropped into water, lets give them few 1100.01:06
MrPinguI JUST LOVE Maemo, CAN HAZ them?01:07
Estel_MrPingu, write something about evil uncle that swapped you N900's motherboard with lumnia one01:07
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Estel_and hole crusade to reclaim it01:07
Estel_+ princess and half of kingdom01:07
Woody14619And yes, Estel_, I'm back from the woods, for now. :)  I actually almost got on for the meeting, but apparently Tmobil is banned without SASL and xchat on N900 fails to do it right without a plugin.01:07
Estel_Woody14619, I see... well, i explained people why You were not able to made it there :)01:08
MrPinguNo, I think it's going to be about a dragon who stealed my N90001:08
Estel_Woody14619, join internal chann for a while, if You have time now?01:08
Woody14619?internal?  What channel is that?01:09
Woody14619.oO(Why can't we just hold all meetings in one channel?  Vs making 800 channels?)01:09
Estel_Will explain it on 801 channel :D01:10
MrPinguhaha :P01:10
MrPinguWell I am going to sleep, tomorrow my last exam then freedom for some weeks :D01:10
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MrPinguGood night,  cya!01:13
Estel_Good luck MrPingu01:14
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user_how do you change a swaps priority withou swapon/off ing?01:18
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RaimuReading tonight's channel quarrel made my head hurt.01:24
RaimuEstel, BTW, do you write on a regular keyboard? I think some of your lines are actually getting harder to read as time passes.01:25
DocScrutinizer51vi___: not at all?01:25
RaimuEstekl, I mean that you write competent text on TMO, but your IRC output has the most typos I see on any channel.01:26
Raimu..."Estekl." Well, that was ironic.01:26
Estel_Raimu, I also notice that, as time passes, and IRC activity grow up (probably, due to being Councilor) my grammar and writing skills ar egetting worse and worse :(01:26
Estel_sure thing, that it was irony ;) not that I don't belive it.01:26
Estel_hehe, thanks a lot01:26
Estel_well, maybe I'll need to actually start *READING* things before hitting enter... Never though that this doomsday will ever happen :(01:26
Estel_seriously though...01:27
Estel_I've so much work with a) last things about installing council - as chair, all formalities are on me now b) Communtiy Awards and submissions c) whatever non-Council related activity on Maemo d) breathing :)01:27
Estel_that, supposedly, I just tried to write everything too fast, or, to do too many things at the same time01:28
Estel_BTW i'm very strange type of writer, if You're interested - sorry for monologue ;)01:28
Estel_With all this speed, I'mwriting using - literally - two fingers01:28
Estel_right hand middle, and left hand 2nd01:28
RaimuI've sometimes thought you're writing lightning-speed on a n900 or something.01:29
Estel_because many times I'm ;P01:29
Estel_currently, on full keyboard, but i'm switching from mobile and desktop all the times01:29
Estel_well, real life is also demanding :P01:29
GeneralAntillesNo one can touch my N900 speeds.01:29
Estel_not like reading all those submissions, but still :p01:30
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: indeed01:30
Estel_GeneralAntilles, challenged accepted :P seriously though, You're probably faster.01:30
GeneralAntillesI'm way out of practice01:30
GeneralAntillesHaven't touched an N900 keyboard since last year.01:30
Woody14619.oO(GeneralAntilles: My keystrokes bring all the boys to the yard?)01:31
Estel_Oh, You just screwed Your chances to get N9 in CA01:31
GeneralAntillesHey, I've transcribed more than one keynote to IRC via N900.01:31
GeneralAntillesOne of them was half in Spanish!01:31
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles is writing faster on N900 than speakers on a lecture are speaking01:31
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Estel_and know what they want to say before they've said that01:32
Estel_that is why he udnerstand me, and You don't, apparently :p01:32
vi___Woody14619: I could inform you however I would require some form of monetary recompense.01:32
RaimuGeneralAntilles: *swoon*01:32
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GeneralAntillesEstel_, nah, that's the Mad Facilitator Skillz.01:33
* GeneralAntilles sat on the council that kept Talk from burning down after it was brought into
vi___I do believe my comorrancy is of a maesurably higher standard than yous.01:33
Estel_well, we're starting little contest. Vi is writing few lines of text, and one who is able to re-write them, got a half of potato... Eh, it would be just copy and paste contest ;)01:33
vi___higher standard than yours.01:33
Estel_GeneralAntilles, I know :)01:34
Estel_I'm glad to see that You're still somewhat active01:34
GeneralAntillesvi___, cormorantcy?01:34
Estel_something about cormorans01:34
GeneralAntillesEstel_, who's somewhat active?01:34
vi___a bird stew??01:34
Estel_GeneralAntilles, You - I mean, that you're still here01:35
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Estel_doing MWN and such stuff01:35
vi___a kind of domicile01:35
GeneralAntillesWas gonna say.01:35
GeneralAntillesvi___, commorancy?01:35
GeneralAntillesEvery damn week for years now.01:35
Estel_Honestly, it's a pity than no other way (except for pinging You here directly, or Jaffa) to contribute MWN, other than twitter01:36
GeneralAntillesWhat other way would you like?01:36
Estel_I'm just not cormoranish type of guy and I don't use twitter/facebook/whatever :(01:36
Woody14619Plenty of ways... making wiki pages works too, if they're popular enough. :)01:36
Estel_IRC bot collecting links :p01:36
Estel_mailing list01:36
GeneralAntillesJust ping one of us here.01:36
GeneralAntillesI'm never too far away.01:37
Estel_something accesible without registering on murky website01:37
Estel_and accepting they murky rules and privacy policy01:37
GeneralAntillesSay qwerty12's name 3 times.01:37
Estel_and write pentagram01:37
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DocScrutinizer51sacrifice a squiid01:38
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RaimuWrite mystical runes on a CAPTCHA check anywhere01:39
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DocScrutinizer51~seen lcuk02:25
infobotlcuk <lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 259d 9h 24m 15s ago, saying: 'heh'.02:25
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GeneralAntillesHas it really been that long?02:29
DocScrutinizer51yap *sigh*02:31
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DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: seen RevKathy posting on [cmty]? Nice to see her around02:32
GeneralAntillesI was poking her on Twitter this morning.02:33
* DocScrutinizer51 feels like times changed a friggin lot in just less than 24 months02:34
GeneralAntillesThere's a Dylan song about that, I think.02:35
DocScrutinizer51-ChanServ- 8     jOERG_rw               +votriA [modified 2 years, 9 weeks, 6 days, 02:13:36 ago]02:35
Hurrianmaemo wiki seems to be down, can anyone check?02:36
GeneralAntillesUp here.02:36
DocScrutinizer51check what?02:36
Hurriannevermind, seems to be just a small, high-load time02:37
DocScrutinizer51Hurrian: or it was me testing my latest DOS-attack tool ;-P02:45
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robbiethe1stLook! Nokia N900's spiritual successor:
robbiethe1st... And a Maemo-rip-off?
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sethstormrobbiethe1st: I'd be surprised if it was some sort of maemo/etc. derivative04:26
Hurrianit probably isn't running maemo04:28
Hurrianmaybe some java symbian ripoff04:28
sethstormrobbiethe1st: the first one of those is promising, but the battery life would have to be abysmal04:29
sethstormand the cdma radio would be likely to not be usable w/ US providers04:30
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sethstorm(as much as plenty of us out there that want options for a CDMA qwerty slider that isn't encumbered)04:34
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, Kathy Smith (revdKathy) also submitten to CA program ;)04:40
Estel_I was shocked to see Her submissions yesterday04:40
Estel_~seen RevdKathy04:41
infobotrevdkathy <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 257d 7h 47m 23s ago, saying: 'oh silly me, yes. It's apple who lift other people's work and pass it off as their own. '.04:41
Estel_and I freakin' can't belive it's already 3/4 of a year since lcuk departure.04:41
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Estel_well, I see it everyday - my Son is already 3 years and 4 months old, and, considering this "growth rate", he will be as old as I'm now quite quickly ;) I'm telling You, something is changing in minds, Earth's spin and orbital movement is perceived *much* faster than 30 years ago almost for everyone04:43
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Estel_freakin' year is passing like a moment04:44
Estel_It may be surprising, what I'm going to say, but I don't think it's necessary bad. It's just... Well, strange a little, and interesting for sure.04:45
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Estel_submissions processed, mails and PM's answered, TMO "checked"...  n8, time to get some sleep. Postponing development for tomorrow...05:29
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!07:15
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teotwakifuck me, are they still postulating for the n9/n950s?11:06
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vi_teotwaki: well dur11:09
teotwakigood point.11:10
JaffaEstel_: If Twitter's a problem and you'd really like to contribute links, send them via email or we can find some other way. However, Twitter is a low-barrier submission method which makes it convenient for sending links11:12
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kleahi... yesterday I asked in here about my wifi reception problems with this used n900 that i recently picked up used (thanx to the ones that helped)...  unfortunately i got cut off again but had time to make some more tests... i installed KP50 and bleeding edge wifi drivers but this didn't help a lot. i still think it's a hardware problem... since i have some wifi cards around and a n9 sitting by (not that famous for it's wifi), i'll drop some rece11:35
klea1. integrated wifi in laptop (realtek): . Bit Rate=54 Mb/s  Link Quality=64/70  Signal level=-46 dBm11:35
klea2. usb wifi, laptop (atheros): Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=59/70  Signal level=-51 dBm11:35
klea3. N9: Bit Rate=54 Mb/s Link Quality=48/70  Signal level=-62 dBm11:35
klea4. N900 (bleeding edge driver 0.2, power management off in settings): Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s Link Quality=25/70  Signal level=-85 dBm11:35
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RST38hklea: The answer is to use manufacturer supplied drivers rather than the "bleeding edge" stuff you have got from god knows where11:38
kleaok, but it makes no difference11:39
kleai'll post the stock results11:39
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klea5. N900 (stock drivers, power management off): Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s Link Quality=12/100  Signal level=-86 dBm   Noise Level =-93dBm11:45
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kleai also have to note that the 2 wifi cards detect about 20 wifi networks around, old-trusty E71 finds 16, N9 only 4 of them and N900 only 211:50
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vi_klea: it seems pretty clear.  Your n900 is fecked12:01
kleavi_: :)12:02
vi_klea: take it apart and make sure the wifi aerial is sitting right12:02
vi_it is only 'pressed' together with some springs.12:02
vi_maybe if you bend them out slightly and clean the contacks with a little solvent it might work again.12:02
kleavi_: that's what i thought of doing, but wanted to ask for ideas in here before12:04
kleavi_: (maybe i could try soldering the usb port as well....)12:04
kleavi_: strange though, didn't find anyone with a similar problem, it's a strange case12:07
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MrPinguSomeone has to be the first...12:09
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JaffaEstel_: If you want to write the bot, that'd be fine :-)12:11
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MrPinguBrb, reboot testing new hildon-desktop12:17
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DocScrutinizer51vi_: how do you expl*in -69dBm by broken antenna, and how's that creating poor signal quality?12:33
chem|stMohammadAG: ping12:35
DocScrutinizer51moin chem|st12:35
chem|stMohammadAG: sociality shows a conversation missing about one day but showing one entry I do not see on facebook... o.O12:36
chem|stmoin Doc12:36
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: could you take over and explain why solvents are generally a poor idea to 'clean' contacts12:36
DocScrutinizer51I'm busy12:36
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: sure12:37
DocScrutinizer51use unvarnished paper to 'brush' contacts clean!12:39
DocScrutinizer51or eraser, in nasty cases12:40
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DocScrutinizer51vi_ is talking klea into nonsensical enterprise12:41
chem|stklea: for cleaning you do not want any non-polar liquids as it will destroy other things, as DocScrutinizer51 says, dry cleaning first12:41
chem|stbut I doubt it is the antenna12:41
DocScrutinizer51me too12:42
chem|stsounds more likely to be some other issue, my sister just had a powrmanaement disconnect last night12:42
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: oxid! non-soluble12:42
DocScrutinizer51but -69dBm is not a defect antr12:43
vi_DocScrutinizer51s is gonna hate.12:44
chem|stno the 12% link quality seems odd12:44
DocScrutinizer51doeasn't match -69 and short dist to AP12:45
DocScrutinizer51doesn't suggest ant is problem12:45
DocScrutinizer51I suspect cross intermodulation12:46
DocScrutinizer51aka 'interference'12:46
chem|stklea: as people always mess up flashing, and sometimes the hardware firmwares do not get flashed properly (you gonna end up like my sister)12:46
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chem|stas you speak DocScrutinizer5112:46
chem|stklea: how far are you away from the AP12:47
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DocScrutinizer51consider BT coexistence12:47
kleachem|st: -69 dBm was yesterdays result, 10cm from the access point (thomson)12:47
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chem|stMohammadAG: ok got it, it is dumb, it shows an conversation in overview being sent yesterday night which was actually sent 2years ago the next entry is really sent 3 days ago and so on12:48
vi_~seen mata12:48
vi_~seen matan12:48
infobotmata <> was last seen on IRC in channel #sc2mapster, 744d 19h 36m 15s ago, saying: 'do we know what console commands there are?'.12:48
infobotmatan <530f167a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 622d 1h 54m 37s ago, saying: 'morning'.12:48
chem|stMohammadAG: some kind of just useless12:48
kleachem|st: today i get about -85 dBm at 5-6 meters from the AP12:48
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kleaand it's a different AP today12:49
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chem|stklea: 10cm is like worthless, in ranges lower 3m it is know that your link quality may drop12:49
chem|stklea: what is the link now?12:49
vi_klea is this for ALL AP in different buildings?12:50
kleavi_: yes12:50
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kleavi_: i can't even detect networks that even the N9 sees and connects to12:51
vi_mmm, some kind of global interference ay?12:51
kleai took it out several times to try public APs12:51
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kleai'm sure something's wrong with the n900 itself12:51
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vi_klea: clearly12:52
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kleaof course i'm open to suggestions/ideas, it's my first n900 and don't have experience12:53
vi_Then WTF is this ultrasolve PCB cleaning solvent for?12:53
vi_Klea your N900 broken.12:53
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vi_If it was mine I would open it, clean contacts and inspect etc.12:54
kleavi_: it can only be used reliably when at the same room as the AP12:54
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chem|stvi_: link?12:54
vi_Despite what Doc 'I know everything!!q!' Scrutinizer51 says.12:54
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vi_It is sitting on my desk12:55
chem|stklea: another try with another approach if you don't mind12:55
chem|stvi_: picture (ingridients)12:55
vi_Shuv that in your truth pipe and smoke it.12:56
vi_(actually doin't it is probably wuite harmful to inhale)12:56
vi_^dont ^quite12:56
chem|stklea: flash it clean, really clean, speaking of "flash rootfs>disconnect&remove battery>flash emmc>disconnect&remove battery>flash rootfs>disconnect&remove battery>boot>try again" just to make sure everything is fine from the software side12:57
chem|stvi_: "Compatible with most plastics"...12:59
kleachem|st: ok, I'll do it. actually i should have done it when i got it since i've no idea what the previous owner did to it, but everything was quite default, they didn't seem to play a lot with it12:59
chem|stI would use it on PCBs from 90's backwards...12:59
chem|stklea: my sister had a borked rootfs, flashing emmc>rootfs did not work in the first place, osso-notes crashed instantaneous and so on13:00
chem|stklea: getting a used device means flashing after posting every details (the owner left) on facebook13:01
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chem|sta clean rootfs>emmc>rootfs flash did the job13:02
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chem|stand pls do not ask what it does while booting, it is some populating stuff and voodoo13:02
chem|stas it does populate home and stuff AFTER language/date setup13:03
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chem|stvi_: for your solvent... solving oil and grease off a pcb means all parts on the PCB need to be resistant, try that on your PC's mainboard and I bet you will have funny effects after a while13:05
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chem|stthat is why you need to be carefull if immersing your pc in cooling liquids... they have to be polar acid-free silicon-free13:06
vi_I will be sure to tell the boys in production to stop using it on aour PCBs then.13:06
chem|stvi_: you are an idiot!13:07
chem|stsry cannot help it!13:07
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chem|stI work in a surface and thin-film lab and have exactly that kind of "in-process-failures" to search for13:08
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vi_chem|st: cheers mate.13:09
chem|stbelieve it or not, sometimes a replaced wheel in a production lane causes trouble as it is gassing some "solvent"13:09
chem|stif the "ultrasolver" works for your production fine, but your production is not "all" production13:10
vi_chem|st: also I was not advocating he bathes his n900 in a solvent.  The implication was 'put a little on a cotton bud and clean the contacts'.13:10
chem|stour et engineer ruined a sample with such a "solvent"13:11
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chem|stvi_: yeah and maybe the contact will come off afterwards13:11
chem|stmetal does not need a solvent for cleaning13:11
dafoxHi all. Does anyone if there (currently) exists a (global) audio-equalizer for the n900? I searched and all I could come up with was a seemingly outdated gst renderer plugin. I would like something which can adjust the global volume so that it works for applications other than my mediaplayer too (e.g. phone, games, etc).13:12
chem|stdafox: afair there is only a mediaplayer with equelizer13:13
dafoxyes, I read about that one, the problem is that this will only work for playing music then, whereas ideally all sounds should be passed through the equalizer13:14
chem|stso iirc the answere is "no"13:15
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: this solvent conversation is "history repeating" dejavu whatever, seems to be about once a year13:16
chem|stgood morning freemangordon13:17
freemangordon_let it be morning :-)13:18
infoboti heard ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
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chem|st~wtf imk13:21
infobotGee...  I don't know what imk means...13:21
chem|stme neither13:22
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chem|stis it "in my knowledge"? sounds wrong to me13:22
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* chem|st lols on application emails13:27
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chem|st"We´ve created a really cool German Community around the maemo13:29
chem|st(N900),MeeGo(N9/50;Ivi,Netbooks,Tablets),Mer,Nemo,Tizen Stuff."13:29
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shanttuIs there any way to update time and date automatically (using 'internet-time' or something) when SIM-card is not used? Now I have to set them manually after every boot13:37
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petteriprobably with ntp, but I haven't tried13:38
dafoxchem|st: ok, that's unfortunate :( Thank you for the answer :)13:38
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shanttupetteri, thanks. ntp it is
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chem|stshanttu: openntpd or use gps13:45
chem|stdafox: was looking in several PA possibilities but I did not manage to get anything working properly as I broke the "normal" PA setup always13:47
dafoxPA = portaudio?13:47
chem|stI never got the streams right and after several days wasting evenings I gave up13:48
dafoxok. I guess I'll have to live with it then :(. Did you do that gst render plugin then?13:48
dafoxwhat did you try to do then?13:48
vi_ luke_jr submitted a patch tht allowed a user to load a FIR filter into the soundchip.13:49
vi_the patch was not his.13:50
dafoxthat actually sound really useful. I'm sorry but I have afk for a little while, is it ok to talk about this a bit more later?13:50
chem|stI tried to apply
chem|stdafox: sure, don't know about my evening yet but others might have useful info for you too13:52
shanttuchem|st, how to use gps to set time?13:56
shanttujust enabling in and wait?13:56
chem|stshanttu: the program needs to apply $date13:58
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chem|stiirc columbus did that, look in its source13:58
chem|stgood morning [DarkGUNMAN]13:59
chem|stshanttu: I do not know why the gpsstack doesn't do that automatically13:59
chem|stshanttu: but ntpd should do...13:59
[DarkGUNMAN]I've got a good puzzle for someone.. how do you find which process is trying to open an internet connection?14:00
shanttuchem|st, thanks. got updated using gps, just took a while14:00
chem|st[DarkGUNMAN]: lsiten to dbus calls14:00
[DarkGUNMAN]dbus-monitor doesn't show anything14:00
chem|stwhat do you need it for?14:00
chem|stdesktop widgets usually being set to autoupdate by default cause that14:01
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[DarkGUNMAN]maemo regularly tries to open an internet connection14:02
chem|stshanttu: well it needs a valid cache to do so14:02
[DarkGUNMAN]thought it is not all the time14:02
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chem|stfrequently you mean14:02
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[DarkGUNMAN]yes, only during the day for some reason14:03
chem|st[DarkGUNMAN]: I guess it is depending on which homescreen you are looking and one of the widgets you use wants to update14:03
chem|stor you have set email update or something14:03
[DarkGUNMAN]only widgets i have in play are flipclock, connectnow, and a qbw to show IP address, not set to autoupdate, only on network trigger14:04
[DarkGUNMAN]modest is not set to update14:04
[DarkGUNMAN]and i removed cherry14:04
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chem|stlog cpu usage and compare which one is hogging right before14:06
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[DarkGUNMAN]chem|st - appart from watching htop is there a way to log this to a file.14:21
[DarkGUNMAN]i did notice that swap space jumped in use by 32mb14:21
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DocScrutinizer51re equalizer FIR, me and a guy nick HNK or NKH or sth like that looked into that like 1.5y ago. check chanlogs fo mixer chip name and FIR14:27
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chem|st[DarkGUNMAN]: top snapshots to file14:32
[DarkGUNMAN]chem|st - looks like modest is the culprit. shall i post here or pastebin?14:34
chem|sttop -b -n1|head -10|tail -614:35
chem|stgives back 6 lines of top oftop14:35
[DarkGUNMAN]its an entry i found in dbus-monitor14:36
chem|stso its email trying to connect14:36
chem|stonliner you may paste here but more pastebin pls14:37
[DarkGUNMAN]i'm no expert but it looked likely to me14:37
JaffaOooh, exciting. I might be getting to go to OSCon in July14:38
chem|st[DarkGUNMAN]: looks like a failing sendreceive request14:38
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chem|stdoes it fail after you deny connection or just blank?14:39
chem|stok no it does it at mine too14:39
[DarkGUNMAN]I got this while connected (using x-chat)14:40
[DarkGUNMAN]so this is likely prompting the connection when offline?14:40
chem|stI just got it by closing conversations14:41
chem|stthis has nothing to do with your connection request14:41
[DarkGUNMAN]modest is definetly not set to update automatically14:41
[DarkGUNMAN]ok. I guess a bit of bug hunting using top is the way to go.14:42
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[DarkGUNMAN]thank you for your time14:42
chem|stlogging the top 6 cpu hogging should be fair enough14:44
chem|stdon't write several files as you will get to your inode limit pretty fast14:45
vi_oops, wrong xterm14:47
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dafoxchem|st: I'm back. sorry again. That sounds interesting, so how far did you get?14:57
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[DarkGUNMAN]thanks again14:58
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chem|stdafox: read DocScrutinizer51's reply above15:11
dafoxchem|st: yes, I was already looking through the logs, I was just curious how far you got with your pulseaudio equalizer :)15:11
dafoxwere you doing it in software or using those hw-filters?15:12
chem|stI got it working for speakers only, as soon as something happened like incoming call or something the thing went crazy15:12
chem|stAND it did keep the cpu at 99%15:13
dafoxI'm reading here that the filters were not that powerful?15:13
dafoxmm 100% cpu is maybe not so useful...15:13
chem|stno idea, I just tried to get my earpiece adjusted....15:13
chem|stit is always to low15:13
freemangordonchem|st, ever tried to neon-optimize it?15:14
chem|stso I thought to suppress and raise lvls to get speech cleared, I am not very good with PA, I also tried to network audio with pulse15:15
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dafoxugh yeah, it's hard to hear anything. I read that that was actually a fault in the hardware design though? As in they positioned the actual speaker some distance away from the speaker hole in the casing, and then there's a narrow path for the actual audio waves to travel through?15:16
chem|stfreemangordon: nope, never got to the stage of actually finding it any useful15:16
freemangordonchem|st, that should make things 3-4 times faster for matrix operations15:17
freemangordonthe same as with MMX/SSE15:17
* freemangordon assumes chem|st uses matrices for calculations15:19
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chem|stI decided to stay with scripting instead of coding... at least s/t I actualy am able to do right^^15:30
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DocScrutinizer51good scripting is way harder than semi-decent coding15:43
DocScrutinizer51though abysmally bad code is way easier to create than terribly messed up scripts15:43
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: just more my thing, especially as I needed to do alot of scripting for work, even learn a new scripting language15:46
chem|stactually 3 new languages I never will use for anything else than those specifics15:48
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infobotmethinks battery is made by Danionics, or at
infobothmm... bme is
ruskiehmm is there any way on a N900 to restart all system apps(i.e. what comes up on a vanilla bootup) easily?16:34
DocScrutinizer51~listkeys bq2716:34
infobotFactoid search of 'bq27' by key returned no results.16:34
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: I cannot remember what is what in output...16:41
chem|stCI: has to be zero or something is wrong I rember16:41
DocScrutinizer51get bq27k-detail2 from my server16:42
chem|stmy battery went flat within minutes from showing like +50% charge16:42
DocScrutinizer51it has full epic length datasheet text16:42
chem|stwohoo even register addresses^^16:44
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chem|stat least I do not need to reset, I just need some charging cycles to reecover right?16:45
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kleachem|st: just finished flashing rootfs>emmc>rootfs with battery removals and all, installed wireless-tools and..... same results with the wifi :-|16:50
kleaso it must be something else...16:50
chem|stklea: different wifi APs tested, right?16:52
kleanot yet but it still detects 2 APs out of the 20 that i have around...16:53
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klea Bit Rate=1 Mb/s Link Quality= 10/100  Signal level=-88 dBm   Noise Level =-91 dBm16:58
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chem|stat least it is not something like -50dBm/-65dBm17:09
chem|stcleaning antenna contacts would be my next aproach17:10
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ShadowJKresetting bq27200 would make battery go empty at around 50%17:12
Hurrianthose are some horrible wifi perf metrics17:12
chem|stShadowJK: I didn't do nothing, I was listening to some music and it popped up with battery empty... I had a reboot in that cycle, always there is wrong reading after that and I am wondering why17:14
chem|stwell bme sucks I know17:14
ShadowJKbme resets on reboot17:15
ShadowJKand doesn't use data from bq2720017:15
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kleachem|st: ok, i suppose that once I get inside there is something that can be actually cleaned... but first i have to find a way to remove these torx screws :)17:19
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vi_klea torx screw driver works pretty good17:20
chem|stklea: rub the springs on a clean sheet of blank paper and use a qtip for the PCB contacts17:21
kleayeap, if u have one :)17:21
kleachem|st: ok, thanx, i'll keep a note of that17:23
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vi_klea: it is worth buying a torx driver for this task.  Other wise you will mangle the head17:36
vi_you can them on ebay for like 1 euro.17:37
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dafoxchem|st: wouldn't -65 be better than -8817:40
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chem|stin terms of noise? I have -55/-108 SNR17:45
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dafoxno, in terms of reception power (signal level). The noise level (-91dBm) seems ok, but the reception is very poor (at only -88dBm)18:28
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dafoxwhere can one see these stats btw?18:30
kwtmHi. Is there an application that will keep reminding me every 15 minutes that there is a SMS (and possibly email) that I have not yet checked?18:30
vi_There is but it is wriiten in python and chores your battery.18:37
befordi would hate an app like that18:37
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fw190Could someone please check if mamo flasher can be downloaded?18:39
fw190I have a problem with it18:39
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dafoxok, apt-get install wireless-tools, then iwconfig tells me -70 / -94 snr18:43
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chem|stfw190: which one?18:52
chem|stfw190: tried 3 all work18:53
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chem|styou are here, right?
chem|stsomething wrong on your end! try wget18:54
dafoxgrr. Has anyone figured out a way to get MfE to work again after "error in communication with exchange server" without rebooting? Like removing some files or killing some process?18:55
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chem|stdafox: -72/-96 35% at 54Mb/s I have with powermanagement on, 10mW18:56
fw190well chromium didn't want to download it18:56
fw190bu firefox did the trick18:56
fw190thank you for your help18:56
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fw190I do not know ow to wget18:57
chem|stfw190: windows7?18:57
dafoxchem|st: yes, more or less the same for me. Quality reading says ~35/100 . So 88 is really too few :)18:57
fw190ubuntu 12.04 but I'm a linux noob18:57
fw190just a user18:57
chem|stdafox: that is my usual reception at work...18:57
fw190firefox failed to18:57
chem|stthere is something wrong on your end18:58
chem|stopen a terminal and enter:18:58
chem|stmkdir maemo18:59
chem|stmv maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb maemo/18:59
chem|stcd maemo18:59
chem|stdpkg -x maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb19:00
chem|steach line is commited by hitting enter...19:00
chem|stgtg l8er19:01
fw190thank you for you help19:01
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DocScrutinizer51+q *!*@* ?21:48
infobot:), DocScrutinizer5121:50
DocScrutinizer51I should teach er to send a21:50
DocScrutinizer51--- MARK ---21:50
DocScrutinizer51line every 60min without any post21:50
DocScrutinizer51~attack chem|st21:51
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing chem|st21:51
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infobot--- MARK ---21:53
DocScrutinizer51klea: I still think your environment is the culprit, not your WLAN antenna22:00
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: o/22:02
chem|st~feed DocScrutinizer5122:02
* infobot offers DocScrutinizer51 some toe-jam22:02
DocScrutinizer51yummy, toes in jelly22:02
chem|styou become a diva if you are hungry22:02
RaimuJelly-dipped toes in mouth?22:03
chem|stwell his SNR looks fine22:03
chem|stI am wondering what the problem is,22:03
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: doesn't meaqn much, THD alias cross-intermodulation22:04
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chem|stgrml wanted to have some offline life tonight but it is raining cats22:04
DocScrutinizer51can happen with strong nearby signals that are not (or are) WLAN22:04
chem|stswitching channels might help yes22:04
chem|styou should havve a look on all others and pick a channel close to the weakest22:05
DocScrutinizer51not many users are aware a single AP occupies 3 cahnnels up and 3 down from center channel22:05
chem|stmy neighbourhood scramples wlan/gsm/umts/cable22:06
DocScrutinizer51WLAN modulation width is much wider than channel spacing22:06
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DocScrutinizer51get WiFi-Eye, it's awesome22:07
DocScrutinizer51a really really decent tool22:07
DocScrutinizer51done by a devel who knew his shit22:07
chem|stquiet frequently a guy of our cable company is walking around trying to find the spot where wifi and stuff is interfering most to put on some extra shielding22:07
chem|stgot wifi-eye22:07
DocScrutinizer51the graphic display is instantly intuitive22:08
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DocScrutinizer51but still it doesn't show the leaking microwave oven in your neighbour's kitchen22:10
vi_____...use channel 14.22:11
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DocScrutinizer51for a reference: I get sth like -56dBm a 100cm away from my AP22:11
vi_____also at 20MHz channel width...22:12
DocScrutinizer51[11:57:22] <DocScrutinizer51> WTF my t900 doesn't know about chan13 :-S22:12
DocScrutinizer51[11:58:11] <DocScrutinizer51> switched AP to chan13, IroN900 not even lost connection, T900 doesn't see AP anymore22:12
vi_____and 5MHz spacing per channel.22:13
vi_____implies 2 channels up and down.22:13
DocScrutinizer51well, since other AP would also use 20MHz, that means you need at least 3 'unused' chan for separating22:14
DocScrutinizer51vi_____: it's not like AP WLAN just spams the neighbour chans, it actually uses them - also for RX22:15
DocScrutinizer51basic rule: if your modulation is X wide, you need X as minimum real chan spacing22:16
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DocScrutinizer51this would mean 4 times 5 MHz skip to center of next neighbour AP freq22:18
DocScrutinizer51which, in my book, equals 3 "unused" channels22:19
DocScrutinizer51don't mess with an EE ;-P22:20
DocScrutinizer51vi_____: esp not with a badass EE like me ;-)22:22
DocScrutinizer51vi_____: I'm temped to kick you, just to see if your e-peen gets longer or shorter on rejoin22:22
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DocScrutinizer51vi_{5}: this is really nasty!22:23
Estel_vi_, in this channel discussion, DocScrutinizer is right.22:23
Estel_standard sewttingsa have only 3 totally non-interferring channels22:24
Estel_ho ever, klea problem soudns like ep[rfect example of lack of contact with antenna22:24
Estel_he got -69 holding device 10 cm from AP, and -89 when holding it 3 meters away22:24
Estel_tyr to unscrew You N900 wifi antenna totally, and You'll have same resulots22:25
DocScrutinizer51that's a bit low22:25
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DocScrutinizer51for the 3m22:25
Estel_blaming bleeblaming bleeding-edge drivers ias bullshit, they're well tested, but he also tried stockj22:25
Estel_and very high drop with distance22:26
DocScrutinizer51for 10cm I'd not be surprised his RX amp gets so terribly into clipping that no detection of AP is possible :-P22:26
Estel_IIRC, N900 without antenna at all act like that22:26
Estel_of course22:26
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Estel_still, I'm pretty sure it's not software related22:26
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Estel_BTw, Currently, i've 5 N900's in front of me22:27
DocScrutinizer51and quite obviously RX clipping would cause massive intermodulation and thus the WiFi wouldn't see *any* AP then22:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer, yep.22:27
Estel_...and I'm planning to run qtflow on it, then create something like inter-screen flow :P22:28
Estel_will try to film it, as a kind of gail to lcuk22:28
DocScrutinizer51nah, that's definitely not a sw problem22:28
* Estel_ loads updated writing modules from KP22:28
Estel_anti-typo check 2.0 loaded22:28
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DocScrutinizer51that's either an environment with way too many BT and WLAN messing up everything, or even a leaking microwave or door-radar, or actually a broken antenna (least probable alternative)22:29
Estel_Hm, broken antenna OR broken contact with antenna is most likely thing here.22:29
Estel_easy test22:29
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Estel_unscrew 6 screws, open N900, stick fork to antenna contacts :P22:30
Estel_if reception will improve, it's antenna.22:30
DocScrutinizer51the hosiden or whatever test connector might be defect22:30
DocScrutinizer51seen this many many times22:31
DocScrutinizer51those friggin things are built and designed and specified for max 50 rounds22:32
DocScrutinizer51so odds are a certain percentage breaks on first round22:32
DocScrutinizer51another non-negligible percentage breaks on mere aging22:33
DocScrutinizer51waaaay more frequent defect than contact spring of antenna getting 'dirty'22:33
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Estel_no,I don't mean that.22:34
Estel_Hirose connectors are fragile, don't put fork nthere22:34
DocScrutinizer51anyway you're aware BT and WLAN share one antenna?22:34
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Estel_I mean "stick fork to copper spring on N900 MB"22:34
MohammadAGwhoever decided that's sane...22:34
DocScrutinizer51sharing antenna? absolutely sane22:35
Estel_DocScrutinizer, that's why i'm designing adapter in N900's body replacement - user will need to connect it to hirose connectors only once...22:35
MohammadAGin terms of device size and power, yes, in terms of everything else22:35
Estel_And gain plugs for external antenna in outside of N900's body :)22:35
Estel_MohammadAG, it's not like that.22:35
Estel_Wifi and bt use samke frequency, almost22:35
Estel_uusing one antenna is very OK, and don't affect performance.22:36
Estel_if You don't like that, blame BT for using 2,4 at all :P22:36
MohammadAGdownload a big file while listening to music over BT22:36
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: it's absolutely irrelevant if you are using same antenna, or two separate antennae that aren't (separate)22:36
Estel_MohammadAG, using 2 antennas won't help there22:36
Estel_still both antennas will pick up same frequency22:36
MohammadAGthen why does the N900 perform terribly there?22:36
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: yep22:36
MohammadAGwhereas other devices don't22:36
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: *every* device does22:36
Estel_MohammadAG, smart BT devices "know" how to cooperate with wlan22:37
Estel_N900's BT is also able to do that, but it depends on peripheral device22:37
Estel_i.e. headphone22:37
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DocScrutinizer51there's so called n-wire-coexistence22:37
DocScrutinizer51where n = [2, 3, 4]22:37
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: switched channel... hit a bug... no TX anymore...22:37
Estel_BTW, it's strange, I've tested it with definitelly *not* smart BT adapters, and listening to music was making 0 perceveiable impact on my WLAN22:37
Estel_chem|st, it's becauise You use sucking stock kernel22:38
MohammadAGThen my antenna's crappy22:38
MohammadAGor defective22:38
Estel_drop ash into Your head and install KP50 again in Your sister's N90022:38
Estel_MohammadAG, not related to antenna22:38
MohammadAGI was sending a file over BT once, and connecting to WLAN killed it22:38
Estel_blame 2nd bluetooth device22:38
MohammadAGan N90022:38
Estel_and/or drivers, with coexistence disabled22:38
Estel_BT coexistence with wlan require strict cooperation in terms of software and hardware. N900 got everything setup properly22:39
Estel_and it's proven to work on correct setup22:39
Estel_I think that Your 2nd device bluetooth module OR drivers/software settings were bad.22:39
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Estel_argh, damn google22:41
Estel_it buggy me every 5 logins to give them my phone number22:41
* Estel_ by google, mean gmail22:41
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RaimuFirst I was wondering about the "drop ash" comment, but then I recalled it's a gesture of shame.22:43
RaimuSack cloth and ashes, like.22:43
DocScrutinizer51F U Lenovo, PSU case is glued22:44
RaimuI don't know whether it's prevalent in the English language, though. :D22:44
DocScrutinizer51I wondered if he assumed chem|st has messybox installed in his brain ;-P22:46
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DocScrutinizer51though from IT I don't know the term "drop into", I'd rather think of the database term "drop table" which more is like delete rather than install22:49
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DocScrutinizer51so "drop ash" doesn't make sense, "drop busybox" would22:50
* DocScrutinizer51 can't decide between scissors and hammer to 'repair' that Lenovo PSU22:51
vi_____your going to 'fix' a switch mode psu with a hammer?22:57
RaimuThis sounds interesting.22:57
vi_____if you are such a hot EE, explain PFC in 3 or less sentances.22:58
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RaimuPower factor correction, sentence 1: AC electricity is funny and gets angry when used on inconvenient-type loads.23:03
RaimuSentence 2: ??? Sentence 3: Profit23:04
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Raimu(I had to cheat and look this up, because I think I dozed through our AC classes way back when) Basically PFC is a filtering placed on a power supply that makes it draw current the way an ideal resistive load would.23:09
Raimu"In this case, the voltage and current are in phase and the reactive power consumption is zero."23:10
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vi_____that is the bit that breaks my head23:18
vi_____the voltage an current are in phase.23:18
vi_____how can the be out of phase23:18
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RaimuLong ago I think I mainly just accepted that AC is scary and weird.23:20
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vi_____I heard it is made of magnets.23:24
Raimu"Fucking magnets, how do they work?"23:24
vi_____PFC I think.23:26
vi_____PFC is about as hard to grasp as VM tuning.23:26
MohammadAGspeaking of wihch23:29
MohammadAGwhat would happen if I connect an AC circuit to a DC one?23:29
DocScrutinizer51you invented a new rockmusic group23:30
RaimuMohammadAG: This one is easily tested! Some alligator clips, wire, wall AC socket and a DC battery.23:31
DocScrutinizer51PSU won't usually mind23:32
DocScrutinizer51good old iron core tranformers though23:32
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer51> you invented a new rockmusic group23:32
DocScrutinizer51~wiki AC/DC23:33
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the band}} {{Use Australian English|date=November 2011}}{{Use dmy dates|date=November 2011}} {{Featured article}} {{pp-move-indef}} {{Infobox musical artist | name = AC/DC | image = ACDC In Tacoma 2009.jpg | alt = Rock band in performance on a well-lit but hazy stage. At the back is a guitarist; there are two more guitarists, a vocalist off to one side, and a drummer in the rear. ...23:33
DocScrutinizer51oops, seems it's not THAT new23:34
RaimuThe developer of qSpot ran into a snag when Spotify updated libspotify (a closed binary API) and now it depends on glibc 2.7 instead of an earlier one we've got with Maemo.23:38
RaimuHow could one work over this?23:38
DocScrutinizer51well, generally libs either are ABI compatible, or have distinct names23:40
DocScrutinizer51if somebody messed things up there, you can start your stuff with "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./here/my/glib-version/ <spotify-app>"23:41
DocScrutinizer51maybe you need to fix some minor typos in my suggestions23:42
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DocScrutinizer51man ld-linux23:45
DocScrutinizer51or even /lib/*  [OPTIONS] [PROGRAM [ARGUMENTS]]23:46
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DocScrutinizer51anyway WTF does this app depend on glibc2.7 at all?23:49
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, who doesn't know AC/DC?23:49
RaimuDocScrutinizer51: libspotify? Hell if I know.23:49
DocScrutinizer51you could try and just create a symlink23:50
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MohammadAGLD_LIBRARY_PATH is the way to go23:50
MohammadAGassuming glibc 2.7 compiles23:50
DocScrutinizer51back to whatever version glibc you got23:50
RaimuDocScrutinizer51: And pray for compatibility?23:50
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RaimuI've done that once with dependencies...23:51
RaimuIt felt shameful.23:51
DocScrutinizer51praying helps I've been told - if you pray to the right diety23:51
DocScrutinizer51if it doesn't, you either reconsider your choice of diety, or you sacrifice a hamster23:53
RaimuIf my microwave oven has been blessed by my deity, sure.23:53
RaimuI need to check that with an exorcist or something.23:53
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RaimuAnyway, thanks. I'll test and relay the info.23:55
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