IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-05-28

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vi__yo bros00:02
vi__freemangordon: ping00:06
merlin1991Estel_: nah 150€ is the upper end of the price range for me00:06
Estel_oh, so even former device, that was sold for 180 euro wasn't in it :)00:07
Estel_in  fact, 3 devices00:07
merlin1991I got a perfectly fine one for 130 some time ago :D00:07
Estel_and what about device, erm, visual state, for those 150 euro?00:07
Estel_that wa sjust luck ;)00:07
Estel_msot people consider 180 euro as a bargain00:07
Estel_especially, with soldered down usb port00:07
merlin1991though I don't care about scratches on the plastic and stuff, it has to have a screen that is still useable and all the internals should still work00:08
Estel_so it can be scratched all the way, but usable?00:08
Estel_It's possible that i'll have something for 150 euro + shipping.00:08
Estel_have = possible to find00:08
Estel_would be interested in such case?00:08
vi__I got davyp a totally fucked but still working one for £7000:09
Estel_vi__, GTFO :P00:09
Estel_ah sorry00:09
Estel_I though You've donated it to him for free, lol. not that it's bad thing00:09
Estel_I'm glad we was willing to buy one00:09
vi__visually it was a very unhappy n900, scratched to shit.  However it all still worked inside which was wnough for him to debig phoneME on.00:10
Estel_merlin1991, I'll be in GSM outled tomorrow, physical one00:10
vi__Estel_: the community donated little bits of monies to add up to the £70.00:10
Estel_I see00:11
Estel_merlin1991, if You'00:11
vi__Estel_: I merley bought it and shipped it.00:11
vi__(and also donated monies)00:11
Estel_'re interested and in need of N900, i can sear4ch for something up to 150 euro, but it won't be looking like new ;)00:11
Estel_I would be glad to ship it to You if You can cover hardware costs + shippinbg00:11
Estel_but need to decide fast, as I'm going sleep soon :D00:12
Estel_vi__, where you've found such N900 fow 70 euro?00:12
Estel_even considering full body swap, it's cheap00:12
Estel_and I'm surr full wasn't needed, as flex were, probably, all ok00:13
vi__Estel_: 70 GBP00:13
merlin1991Estel_: he said pounds not euro00:13
Estel_quite a difference00:13
merlin1991Estel_: as long as it still works perfectly I don't care about visual state :)00:13
vi__they drop in quality quite considerably below £9000:13
merlin1991so yeah I'd be interested00:13
Estel_ok, I'm asking, because, if I find something tomorrow, i'll pay with my money...00:13
Estel_so I just wanted to rest assured that You're decided ;)00:14
vi__even ones with totally fucked USB go for £40-50 in the UK.00:14
Estel_where should it be shipped to? country? I'm asking due to shipping costs calculation00:14
Estel_no problem with shipping should be pretty cheap00:14
merlin1991yep :D00:14
Estel_ok, will ping You if I find something00:14
Estel_latets hobby of mine - saving N900's from hand of ignorants LOL00:15
Estel_reinforcing USB ports, and passing them to Community00:15
Estel_mission statement00:15
merlin1991and making profit on the way ;)00:15
Estel_merlin - of course this one won't have usb port reinforced, juyst bought and shipped00:15
Estel_merlin1991, in fact almsot not00:15
Estel_someone would sday, that i'mworking for less than Chinese slaves, if we consider00:15
Estel_ammount of work00:16
Estel_and divide money gained per hour00:16
merlin1991I can work on the usb port myself00:16
Estel_I know00:16
Estel_that's why I'm saying it will be pure hardware + shipping cost ;p00:16
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Estel_consider this as my donation via helping to get cherap N900 :p00:16
Estel_monetary, by EU standards i'm poor like church mouse ;) so I donate via other ways, most of the time, LOL00:17
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luke-jrEstel_: buying one for 220 USD locally00:29
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Estel_gl and hf :)00:29
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Estel_don't forget to solder down usb port00:29
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JaffaIt's amazing how many "community" members are coming forward whose name is unrecognisable.11:13
JaffaThey should definitely get a free device.11:13
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vi_The spam levels on the mailing list have become astronomical.11:24
vi_I awoke to 23+ badly written emails about how much people 'love' maemo.11:25
vi_I love my wife, I don't love maemo.11:25
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cityLightsgood morning11:41
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ivgalvez10 submissions now12:40
ivgalvezfortunately the Wiki page is now protected, thanks Andre12:41
ivgalvezIt seems we have opened Pandora's box12:42
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andre__ivgalvez, only against unregistered users12:42
andre__I don't think I can define any groups or so (except for wiki sysops)12:42
ivgalvezthanks anyway!12:45
ivgalvezit's being quite time consuming today12:45
andre__the blame game gets easier at least for non-IP changes :P12:45
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MohammadAGI would've preferred a web based form tbh13:00
MohammadAGTo apply or not to apply...13:01
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andre__and I would have prefered if people READ first what they are expected to elaborate on (past contributions).13:02
andre__but reading is hard. :)13:02
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MohammadAGA form would have instructions above it :p13:04
andre__But there is something for free! I thought I could give it a try at least! :P13:06
MohammadAGWell why not?13:09
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JaffaMohammadAG: Compared with "I like Maemos" (equivalents), I think you'd be in a position similar to Pali. Given the competition so far, I don't imagine you'd be hard cases (though didn't you get an N950 through the device programme?)13:13
MohammadAGJaffa: It states you can apply for an N9, I'd love to add NFC functionality to Sociality13:14
MohammadAGOr joining chats in my WIP bt-messenger rewrite13:15
MohammadAG(using NFC)13:15
ivgalvezMohammadAG: don't even think about it, just send your submission13:15
MohammadAGBut I fear that if I win I'll take a slot in place of someone13:15
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vi_MohammadAG: Just send an email to the ML containing:13:40
vi_"I am MAG. N9. I need this."13:41
vi_Most of the entrants so far are...13:41
vi_barely legible.13:41
JaffaMohammadAG: Ah, true.13:43
JaffaMohammadAG: You would. But look at some of the other applicants ;-)13:43
* Jaffa has an N9 (well, two; and hopefully a third on its way) and an N950 already.13:44
ivgalvezI hope it will improve during the following days, :(13:44
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MohammadAGJaffa: Woah, you bought 3?13:45
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JaffaMohammadAG: One's a Nokia Developer Champion gift. The choice of devices wasn't very wide, so plumped for a new N9 - it was suggested they could be blue or magenta - so was thinking a case swap with my black (damaged) 64GB13:48
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vi_I like this one:13:51
vi_Im currently a samsung employee, at their gallery, but hey i dont like any OS that they offered to us, when i hold n900 and n9(maemo devices) i find myself in a happiness, and falling in love with them, i joined for learning and add my knowledge, now im fired from samsung gallery, because im work without passion there, now i managed my own litlle gallery, for me its not a misery, but its a glory, long live maemo, from your all i know what the meani13:51
MohammadAGMissed that apparently13:54
MohammadAGCurrently + fired = lack of continuity13:55
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GonzoTheGreatAs I mentioned on tmo - at the moment I would be much happier if they give out bug fixes instead of devices. qt mobility (n9) is a shambles.13:59
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JaffaGonzoTheGreat: You do know it's different people involved in each, right?14:06
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GonzoTheGreatyep. I  just find the development extremly frustrating and other people will find out too once they actually get started developing something. </vent>14:12
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MohammadAGDevelopment for harmattan can be frustrating at times but it gives you experience :p14:56
MohammadAGThe lack of a QListWidget-like class in mtf forced me to learn how to use models14:56
MohammadAGIt took14:57
MohammadAGTime but models are better practice14:57
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ivgalvezbusy morning with self nominations15:13
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ivgalvezMohammadAG: thanks for appliying15:13
freemangordonMohammadAG, ping15:14
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MohammadAGfreemangordon: Pong, if it's CSSU related ping me in exactly 1 hour15:16
freemangordonnope, it is pastebinit related15:17
MohammadAGivgalvez: You're welcome(?) :p15:17
MohammadAGNeeds an update I guess?15:17
freemangordonMohammadAG: You are listed as package maintainer15:17
freemangordonaccording to vi_, didn't test it myself15:18
MohammadAGProbably an API break, as always15:18
freemangordonbut the API it is currently used seems to be no longer supported15:18
freemangordonyeah :(15:18
MohammadAGAlso need an hour, got a class till then15:18
freemangordonok, no hurry15:18
MohammadAGWish someone could rewrite a same-method library for the fb widget15:19
freemangordonI was thinking to check what is the situation with FB widget and photo uploader, will try today if I have time15:20
MohammadAGfreemangordon: I think Facebook-services uses FQL tables15:20
MohammadAGIt needs to use Graph API15:21
ivgalvezDoes anyone here know something about Allegro libraries?15:21
MohammadAGoffline_access removal doesn't break login15:21
ivgalvezI'm porting a game and at some point a RETURN key is expected15:21
MohammadAGOr currently logged in sessions, at least less than 60 days from now15:22
MohammadAGivgalvez: KP_RETURN15:22
MohammadAGon n900 at least15:22
ivgalvezThe key expected KP_RETURN is number 67 when using Allegro, while I read a 91 when pressing the key15:23
ivgalvezI could override it with a quick hack, but maybe it's aproblem in Allegro port15:23
freemangordonMohammadAG: is closed source, ain't? Damn, this crap is 18k, I am going to RE it15:25
MohammadAGfreemangordon: Ldd it first15:26
MohammadAGIt should be using libfacebookservices or sth15:26
MohammadAGFacebook's protocol is easy15:26
MohammadAGI could write a full replacement in Qt in less than an hour15:27
MohammadAGBut it needs to be Glib based15:27
freemangordonyeah, that is why I am going to RE the appropriate library, maybe /opt/maemo/usr/lib/
freemangordonit is 10k :D15:28
MohammadAGdpkg -L facebook-services15:29
freemangordonMohammadAG: gives only docs :D15:31
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vi_freemangordon: allow me to but in if I may15:36
vi_pastebinit is indeed semi broken15:36
vi_but only because PB have changed their API15:36
vi_newer versions of PBinit do not address this15:36
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vi_newer versions of pastebinit (>v1.2) are compatible with a whole bunch of other pastebins15:37
vi_that work just fine15:37
vi_i.e. slexy.org15:37
vi_In addition to this the debian wheezy package will install strait onto fremantle with no complaints15:38
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freemangordonvi_: anyway, it is MohammadAG who is the maintainer of pastebinit for Fremantle, I was just informing him.15:38
vi_thus, alter pastebinit to use another pastebin as default (i.e. add the .pastebinit settings file) and all will be well15:39
vi_freemangordon: COMPCACHE RULEZ15:39
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freemangordonvi_, how is that?15:39
vi_It runs like a champ15:39
freemangordonBTW i replied to the thread, maybe you want to look at my question15:40
vi_I did15:40
freemangordonaah, ok15:40
vi_I admitted my ignorance15:40
vi_I seem to recall somwhere that if you are to significantly increase nr_requests, one must alter dirty writeback and dirty expire15:41
freemangordoncould be, I am ignorant too :D. BTW setting nr_requests to 4000 seems a little extreme to me. Back in the days I was playing with those settings, it turned out 512 is he best compromise between lag/speed/etc. But you need to tweak fifo_expire... and such stuff15:44
* RST38h yawns15:45
* freemangordon gives him a cup of coffee15:45
vi_freemangordon: yup, just dialled it down to 102415:47
freemangordonvi_, you'd better try transmittion before making the final judgement :P15:47
vi_freemangordon: no chance.15:48
vi_freemangordon: transmission sucks goatz balls15:48
vi_rtorrent is king15:48
freemangordonthat is the ultimate responsiveness test15:48
vi_I think the test is flawed15:48
vi_rtorrent behaves perfectly well when transmission will basically kill my device15:48
freemangordonif your n900 survives with no watchdog kicking, and you can switch between applications while transmition suck all th resources, then your VM settings are close to perfect15:49
vi_bah, you are of course correct.15:49
freemangordonnah, I want that in caps15:50
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Hurrianvi_, agreed, transmission kicks the phone to max freq even with just 200 max connections global15:56
Hurrianside note: tried out your kernel tunables for compcache, it's working really nice ;)15:57
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Palihas somebody heard about qwerty12?15:59
Hurrianhe's been gone ever since the volume control app15:59
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vi_Pali: qwerty12 diesd in a horrific fire RIP16:04
vi_when I say fire I mean flame war16:05
Paliafter his last tmo post I did not see him16:05
vi_that is because he quit16:05
vi_he was so enraged by the noob whinging and Nokia's failure to deliver on promises.16:06
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teotwakiPali: you can shoot him an email, he replies most of the time (actually, every single time I sent him an email he replied).16:07
teotwaki~seen qwerty1216:07
infobotqwerty12 <~qwerty12@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 171d 19h 26m 9s ago, saying: '?'.16:07
teotwakithat's actually less than I expected.16:08
vi_They say if you listen on a darknight, when the mmon is fat you can still here the incandescent rage betwatting nokia from beyond the other side.16:09
teotwakiThey say if you take a second to read what you've just typed, you can remove all those pesky typos that ruin your discourse.16:09
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vi_google has ruined my spelling.16:11
fastlane``computers have ruined my spellings in general16:11
vi_In fact I only had one spelling error.  And it was more of a keyboard slip.16:12
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freemangordonvi_, 128MB for compcache is not a good idea, I was just able to bring my device to its knees . sygic, ovi maps, microb opening FB 2-3 more light applications and it entered swap trashing inferno16:13
freemangordonto the point i was not able to close any application and to free some RAM16:14
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freemangordonvi_, also have in mind I am running lots of stuff thumb compiled, so memory usage is lower than on "stock" device16:15
vi_freemangordon: bah16:17
Hurrianfreemangordon: I just filled /dev/ramzswap0, size 128M. All's still fine.16:17
vi_I just filled my pants.16:18
Hurrianalthough, i could imagine the device going batshit insane if you try to launch another program and it starts to have to page out of ramzswap16:18
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freemangordonHurrian, it is not a problem with ramzswap being full, the problem comes when you have no enough free RAM to keep executables in memory16:20
ivgalvezliballegro4.2 freezed my device when trying to apply fullscreen16:20
freemangordonHurrian,... so kernel constantly discards executable pages from memory, load another, etc, etc16:22
ShadowJKI found compcache with backing swap is brutal, because the access pattern seems to be optimized for making flash go slow16:24
freemangordonvi_, AIUI anything more than lets say 64MB-80MB for disksize_kb could potentialy lead to device being totaly unresponsive under heavy load16:24
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vi_I have 4 browser windows, conky, SMS, xterm, sygic, ovi maps, angry birds opera (1 page) and marble maps open.16:25
Hurrianfreemangordon, ah. mega swap thrashing.16:25
vi_chugging along16:25
freemangordonShadowJK, yeah, using backing swap makes the device look like using floppy for swapping :)16:25
ShadowJKAlso last time I tried it, the next day my N900 had rebooted just from sitting idle on my desk :)16:25
freemangordonvi_, try to open FB16:26
freemangordonfrom within microb16:26
freemangordonShadowJK, what was the swap size?16:26
ShadowJKi forget, probably 128 :)16:26
freemangordonyeah, too much16:26
freemangordonHurrian, definitely ;)16:27
vi_I do not have a facebook account...16:28
vi_however seems to load16:28
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freemangordonwell, open youtube, or another heavy site16:28, open 5-10 news articles16:29
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Hurrianfreemangordon: I find that fb is slow not because of lack of RAM, but because of all that javascript16:31
Hurrianbrowserd's at 58% CPU rendering Home16:31
teotwakiHurrian: those are two different ways of saying the same thing16:31
teotwakiHurrian: if you believe JS isn't RAM hungry, think again. Even more so if your device has to swap and allocate a lot.16:32
vi_ok +2 youtubes has finally caused it to start bogging down16:33
ShadowJKit's a difference between cpu spending majority of time busy and cpu spending majority of time in iowait though :P16:33
vi_still an impressive score16:33
vi_that is most of my heaviest stuff open all at once16:33
freemangordonHurrian, i've never said FB is slow, it is not. But once you enter swap trashing, there is no escape16:33
freemangordonvi_ agree, but by lowering compcache size by half, you will prevent that16:34
freemangordonI mean - it wont be as fast as with 128MB, but you won't risk a device reboot16:35
freemangordonmaybe it depends on usage pattern thoug16:35
Estel_heh, my 3 years old son loves to play Frogatoo on N900, maybe I should convince him to submit for device too16:35
Estel_And someone though, that self-submitting may be bad becauise of shy submitters16:36
Estel_I can only imagine what we would ghet as self-submissions + submissions by 3rd party16:36
freemangordonEstel_, he might actually get one, I heard he has relatives in the council :P16:36
Estel_considering current nominees - except few ones - he would hasd big chances even without it16:37
vi_How are people subposed to vote for the worthy recipients when their submission will be lost in so much badly written trash?16:37
Hurrianside note: just noticed that JIT is not enabled by default in browserd (javascript.options.kit.chome/content)16:37
Estel_they are not supposed to vote16:37
Estel_at all16:37
Estel_fortunately, we have gone north kroea way, and we're deciding who will get device authoritary.16:38
Estel_and, during discussion about it, everyone seemed to love idea, as it saves us "Hello, my name is josh, please vote for me as I love maemo" PM's16:39
vi_I will take 2 please.16:39 Mohammad and freeman have chances for device, as they';re too busy wuith developing, to do lobbing16:39
freemangordonvi_, you won't , it is too late for you :P16:39
ivgalvezvi_: I' tracking all the submissions16:39
ivgalvezharder than expected I must say16:40
Estel_Jaffa, pong16:40
vi_ivgalvez: no shit16:40
ivgalvezbut no one will be lost16:40
Estel_well, it's like democracy, idiots are also supposed to vote or candidate16:41
Estel_we must put all those monthy python's flying circus into wiki16:41
Estel_will be interesting to read16:41
ivgalvezsome of the submissions are quite embarrasing, but they have the right to submit anyway16:41
Estel_ivgalvez, You're doing awesome work16:41
Estel_i'm little late today, could You please tell me WTF was with wiki page?16:41
Estel_someone edited it in bloated way?16:42
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vi_Estel_: some douchehandle tried to rig the votes by deleting everyone else.16:42
ivgalvezEstel_: yes, the user ibrakalifa messed some other candidates while trying to add himself16:42
ivgalvezeverything is in place now16:42
Estel_vi_, funny, as wiki is only "poster" to announce what we have on internal list16:42
Estel_some idiot really though it's voting mechanism embedded, or what?16:43
Estel_if it will become too troublesome to maintain, we will just move to closed thread on TMO16:43
ivgalvezfor me the best way to track it is to watch changes. I will discard any changes not made by Council members16:43
Estel_updated via mdoerators once per week16:43
Estel_ivgalvez, no way to make it auto?16:44
ivgalvezapparently not, Andre_ already protected the page against anonymous changes16:44
Estel_it's a PITA, You got better things to do, probably16:44
Estel_if someone edit this page without right to, on malicious purposes, and do it as registered member...16:44
Estel_repoort him to admin for bans16:44
Estel_if it won't ceas ein few days, we will just put "poster" into locked gallery16:45
MohammadAGyou could make it automatic16:45
Estel_MohammadAG, how?16:45
MohammadAGit'd just be a pita though16:45
Estel_I see16:45
MohammadAGmake a daemon that monitors your email, saves a cookie from your wiki login, when an email comes, pick up N9 or N950, if both present say any, add that to wiki through an internally controlled webpage, (QWebPage if using Qt)16:46
MohammadAGby the time you're done with the daemon, submissions would be over16:46
Estel_I was rather talking about autopmatically reverting changes to wiki page16:46
Estel_not done by council members16:46
Estel_should be easier, but still overkill16:46
Estel_putting name sin lsit isn't problem, idiots editing wiki were.16:46
Estel_DocScrutinizer, what is so funny? "Hello I'm 12 years old and I like N900, could You give me N950 please please please"? :P16:47
DocScrutinizer51not allowing anonymous edits would already help a lot16:47
Estel_it's already done16:47
Estel_andree should get N9 jsut for that :P16:47
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infobotEstel_ meant: andree should get N9 just for that :P16:47
teotwakiEstel_: who is that?16:47
Estel_guy that blocked wiki for anonymous edits16:48
Estel_honestly, I belive that whole wiki should be protected from anonymous edits16:48
Estel_MohammadAG, I can't see Your pastebin16:48
Estel_it seems to be down16:48
HurrianEstel_, when maemo users are the target for wiki, and most (all? does SSO work?) users have wiki account, I agree16:49
* teotwaki puts on some Beastie Boys, and dives back into debugging g++.16:49
MohammadAGdebugging g++?16:49
teotwakiyeah, I discovered a bug recently16:49
MohammadAGnext up, debugging gdb16:50
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Estel_"Im so proud when hold my first N900, reading, and watching youtube everyday about maemo(dualboot, etc), and then finally managed to get one after saving my money and i love it!! , after 4 months hold n900, disaster comings, my son play it around and throw my n900 into the water"16:51
Estel_I think it isn';t submission?:P16:51
Estel_someone is jsut telling us his life story16:51
ShadowJKI don't need a free n950 or N9, but i'd very much like nokia to sell me a new N900 :P16:52
Estel_anyway, he didn't specified which one ehs interested inm ,so it's *not* submission16:52
* DocScrutinizer51 starts screaming on output of 'mount' on a current linux :-O16:52
teotwakithere's seems to be some poorly handled exception handling when encapsulating the topological_sort on variable acyclic graphs, MohammadAG.16:52
Estel_ivgalvez, you're strict and don't accept submissions that lack requiments, yep?16:52
Estel_ShadowJK, I can sell you N900 in ideal condition with USB port soldered down :p16:52
vi_Estel_: cool the nerdjets spazz.16:53
MohammadAGteotwaki, you lost me at when16:53
* DocScrutinizer51 writes imount, the interactive mount info tool16:53
vi_Estel_: you have about 2 more weeks of this horseshit to wade through.16:53
Estel_3, actually16:53
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: +++++++++++16:53
teotwakiI wouldn't mind buying an N950 to be honest.16:54
Estel_teotwaki, no problem, only 2000$16:54
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: you forgot a 016:54
teotwakis/an/a new/16:54
infobotteotwaki meant: I wouldn't mind buying a new N950 to be honest.16:54
vi_Estel_: sure, just send me bank account number and login and I will wire you the monies RITE NOW.16:55
Estel_"For my love of maemo, i want to participate in maemo developing as a tester, or whatever they wanna say, i really falling love to the n950 at the first sight, long live maemo"16:55
DocScrutinizer51vi_: no shit, sherlock16:55
teotwakiMohammadAG: did you notice I filed a bug report against the Linux kernel/doc?16:55
Estel_tthings like that aren't valid submissions16:55
Estel_as epr requiments16:55
Estel_as per*16:55
DocScrutinizer51check prices for e.g. TI gaze16:55
DocScrutinizer51TI zoom-II16:55
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teotwakiEstel_: I think somedude's submission was hilarious.16:56
DocScrutinizer512000$ for N950 is a bargain16:56
merlin1991DocScrutinizer51: it's just bribing a judge ;)16:56
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DocScrutinizer51err blaze16:56
HurrianDocScrutinizer, at that price point, might as well buy enough kit to make pandaboard portable ;)16:56
teotwakiMaybe I could score one, just by going "I'd like to port liqbase to the next platform Gary (RIP) never got to see. I will send the device to the next developer as soon as the task is completed".16:56
Estel_"Yes, thats great. I love maemo too and my head is full of many ideas about apps. But i dont have a device and i prefer the N950 because of the keyboard. I use it really often on my N900. "16:57
Estel_that isn';t submissions too16:57
Estel_he';s just saying what he would like to mhave16:57
vi_Estel_: how many registered users on TMO?16:58
Estel_No idea.16:58
DocScrutinizer51and if you wait a bit longet, you even can insert G7400 LTE module into Blaze16:59
MohammadAGteotwaki, nope17:00
Hurrianthe TI-phones come in dual-screen configurations now?17:00
HurrianI remember when they had ridiculous guts in a blackberry-like form factor17:00
teotwakiMohammadAG: (oh, and shut up stupid bot, you won't find this bug in bmo).17:01
povbotBug 43249: was not found.17:01
teotwakitold you so.17:01
MohammadAGnow if I had +o I would've handled that more maturely17:01
merlin1991povbot relally needs better triggers17:01
povbotmerlin1991: Error: "relally" is not a valid command.17:01
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: LOL17:01
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o MohammadAG17:01
teotwakiMohammadAG: go for it.17:01
*** MohammadAG sets mode: +q povbot!*@*17:01
povbotBug 43249: was not found.17:02
*** MohammadAG sets mode: -q povbot!*@*17:02
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o MohammadAG17:02
MohammadAG/kick teotwaki17:02
Estel_oh, I've come i to 2 first valid submissions!17:02
merlin1991it's especially confusing if you state a bug from some project that has a valid id on the bmo tracker17:02
MohammadAGnaw, I wanted to take over the channel and say N9 OR #MAEMO GETS IT!17:02
DocScrutinizer51hahaha let's see if timeout wouldn't do the same17:02
povbotBug 43249: was not found.17:02
DocScrutinizer51ooh, nope17:02
merlin1991Estel_: err what?17:03
MohammadAGoh, the bug's confirmed17:03
DocScrutinizer51XEN SUCKS!!!!17:03
DocScrutinizer51opensuse xen SUUUUUUCKS17:03
Estel_merlin1991, I mean that soi far, i've found only 3 valid suybmissions. I'm keeping reading17:03
merlin1991I've seen 4 so far17:03
teotwakiMohammadAG: I would've just typed /cs recover #maemo17:04
Estel_Who the hell is17:04
Estel_Muhammad Ayaz <azadpaki@gmail.com17:04
DocScrutinizer51anybody any idea what friggin kernel to get for xen dom0?17:04
teotwakiEstel_: somedude, he's been active on tmo17:04
merlin1991DocScrutinizer51: go debian ;)17:04
Estel_teotwaki, yea.17:05
ivgalvezEstel_: I'm not discarding anyone that has properly sent his submission to mailing list17:05
teotwakiivgalvez: you ought to.17:05
Estel_hardly to the point of receiving device, but.. Well, we will compare him with others ;017:05
Estel_ivgalvez, You're right17:05
teotwakiivgalvez: send the device to the ones with the oldest user ids on maemo17:05
Estel_but "properly"17:05
ivgalvezEstel_: that doesn't mean they will receive a device17:05
DocScrutinizer51I'm almost tempted:
teotwakiivgalvez: or, those who appear most often on the "random community member" page.17:05
Estel_ivgalvez, I know, but please, do not put on wiki submissions that are not in line with requiments17:05
Estel_I.E ones that fail to state which device they preffer (if any) or satisfied by any17:06
Estel_or submissions, that fail to state that they're submissions17:06
MohammadAGteamwork :p17:06
Estel_like "I would like to have N950, because it have keyboard"17:06
teotwakiMohammadAG: I can take down :P17:06
Estel_"I would like to have new car"17:06
Estel_doesn't mean I'm submitting for Toshiba program17:06
teotwakiToshiba makes cars?17:06
teotwakiI thought they made laptops?17:07
Estel_requiments clearly state what is required to be included in submissions (and what is optional)17:07
ivgalvezwe said that the resume wasn't mandatory, now we are f**ed17:07
merlin1991hm should have added the because keyboard line to my email since that actually is my rationale :D17:07
Estel_teotwaki, whatever ;P17:07
Estel_ivgalvez, it's ok, I don't want their reasoning17:07
MohammadAGivgalvez, this channel is PG-17, you can say fucked without censoring it :p17:07
Estel_I mean lacvk of mandatory things like17:07
Estel_"I would liek to submit for..." (and such loike)17:07
ivgalvezMohammadAG: I thought it was more funny that way17:08
Estel_oh, I suck at writing today17:08
teotwakiEstel_: don't worry, it's not just today.17:08
* MohammadAG ponders setting this as his tmo avatar
MohammadAGwhat? it has my initials17:09
Estel_ivgalvez, you're doing awesome hard work processing all this submissions17:09
Estel_dont take me wrong, I'm not criticizing17:09
ivgalvezno worries17:09
DocScrutinizer51oh fsck, shitstorm for free hardware17:09
Estel_I just mean that we should, IMO, be strict about submissions failing to provide required statements/fields17:09
merlin1991MohammadAG: go for it :D17:09
DocScrutinizer51 gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme17:10
DocScrutinizer51for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!17:10
MohammadAGteotwaki, a /kick is free right?17:10
DocScrutinizer51honestly, what did you expect?17:10
merlin1991DocScrutinizer51: well I'd tell you that you'd be a valid candidate if it werent for the fact that you hate harm :D17:11
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JaffaEstel_: ACK17:12
RST38hHeh... NOK is $2.82 on the market. And their flagship store in Moscow just changed to Samsung.17:13
* RST38h remembers when NOK just hit $6 and everyone thought it was terrible17:14
* RST38h further wonders what those corporate investors who approved of Elop are thinking now.17:14
* merlin1991 wonders when to buy in to NOK17:15
RST38hI am *sure* they think "Our darling Elop has Plan, wonderful Plan!"17:15
Jaffamerlin1991: I bought a bit when it hit $317:15
Jaffamerlin1991: Might buy more if it hits $2 ;-)17:15
Hurrianmerlin1991: word on the street is that the Lumia 610 doesn't run angry birds and skype.17:15
DocScrutinizer51merlin1991: I would hate the time I had to spent for waiting for DHL17:15
MohammadAGwhat if it goes down even after 217:15
RST38hmerlin: Unless you have inside info about someone buying Nokia out, the right time is probably "never"17:15
merlin1991RST38h: :D17:16
JaffaMohammadAG: Then Nokia's buyout should give more of a payoff. But it's a risk.17:16
JaffaVery much in the "big gamble" category17:16
RST38hIf you do have the inside info though, then yeah, by all means17:16
merlin1991no inside info :/17:16
RST38hThen forget the poor elopsized finns =(17:17
merlin1991also nfc how to buy in to nok17:17
RST38hAnd think of your own company working on the next gen mobile platform :)17:17
DocScrutinizer51Jaffa: I virtually bought @ 7.04 EURO17:17
jaskaelop on a pole17:17
RST38hBecause the market will not stay with 2 platforms for long17:18
DocScrutinizer51Jaffa: now I'm convinced I'll never touch stock market :-P17:18
RST38hDoc: Well, depends17:18
MohammadAGif only I bought apple stocks 4 years ago17:18
RST38hDoc: Buying into gold in 2001 was totally predictable and totally good for example17:18
RST38hAnd Mohammad is right, you could buy Apple many times in the past, and there wasn't much risk then17:19
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* MohammadAG looks at 2 year chart on the iPhone17:20
RST38hAnd all you have got is a crappy iPhone, Moahammad! Should be ashamed of yourself, etc etc17:20
MohammadAGJuly, less than 31517:20
MohammadAGApril this year, 63617:21
Estel_hey, maybe we shoukld convince quim17:21
MohammadAGto buy apple?17:21
Estel_to "give" away Nokia stock ;P17:21
Estel_to all of those submitters17:22
Estel_it would be cheap...17:22
RST38hhis own nokia stock yu mean? =)17:22
Estel_and we will keep devices for ourself17:22
DocScrutinizer51what's the easy hacker aproach to neuter suspend-to-ram for a whole linux system?17:22
ShadowJKyou what17:22
HurrianDocScrutinizer51: disable it in kernel config17:22
ShadowJKusually people struggle to make it work17:22
MohammadAGthat's not the easy hacker way :p17:22
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: neuter or disable entirely? <.<17:23
DocScrutinizer51nah, it simply doesn't work, I won't bother to fix shit, and I won't build a new kernel17:23
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: could forcefully keep setting the RTC wakeup timer to a few seconds into the future…17:23
DocScrutinizer51I thought about "rm `which suspend`"17:23
luke-jrthere's a suspend program⁈⁈ I always just echo to the /sys17:23
ShadowJKyeah it handles hw and bios bugs and such17:24
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* luke-jr only uses suspend/hibernate to add new hardware without rebooting <.<17:24
Estel_I got question17:24
Estel_ShadowJK, DocScrutinizer  and others17:25
sid_what OS/windowmanager17:25
Estel_what is *exactly*17:25
Estel_a state, when we invoke on N90017:25
* ShadowJK doesn't use suspend at all, but I do use hibernate17:25
Estel_echo mem /sys/power/state17:25
Estel_or smth like that17:25
ShadowJKit's C417:25
luke-jrShadowJK: suspend-to-RAM is useful for buggy hardware that just needs a reset ;)17:25
Hurrian"deep sleep"17:25
Estel_C4? shouldn't CPU enter it on it's own?17:25
Estel_yea,. I noticed that it's suspend, but...17:26
ShadowJKyes but if your system is bugged you force it17:26
luke-jrnever heard of using suspend/hibernate on N90017:26
ShadowJKand it forces stuff to stop running17:26
ShadowJKI've never tried it, does it actually wake up too?17:26
luke-jrI hope I "win" a N950; my N900 seems to be on its last leg :/17:27
luke-jris there a judge to bribe?17:27
Estel_...when ShadowJK, ye,a it works reasonably wlel...17:28
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: or it fscks up hw that doesn't like that kind of "reset"17:28
DocScrutinizer51just like for me and my t50017:28
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: well, I remove it from the system first17:28
Estel_hm, but question here17:28
luke-jrand rescan the PCI bus after17:28
Estel_If I have gsm enabled17:28
luke-jralso, I only ever use the hardware in a KVM17:28
Estel_it automatically kick off device from C417:28
Estel_I mean suspend to sleep17:28
Estel_CPu enters C4 as it should17:28
Estel_I need to sue offline mode before mem sys/power/state17:29
DocScrutinizer51less /usr/lib/pm-utils/bin/pm-action17:29
Estel_in this state, it uses ~3 mA per hour17:29
luke-jrit'd be nice if someday handhelds had power savings of watches :D17:29
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: per hour??17:29
Estel_well, it's not a surprise, as off-line device without it uses ~7 mA per hour17:29
DocScrutinizer51dank, so after one day it uses 150mA then? ;-)17:30
ivgalvezanyone with knowledge on liballegro4.2? I'm getting system freeze when enabling fullscreen (640x480) at 32bpp, segfault in fullscreen at 16bpp and work fine with windowed 640x480 at 32bpp17:30
Estel_DocScrutinizer, after 24 hours in sleep my device uses ~70-80 mAh17:30
DocScrutinizer51mAh != mA17:30
Estel_yea, what's the problem?17:30
Estel_durin sleep, power usage is ~3mA17:31
ShadowJKiirc in idle and offline mode my N900 does about 3-4mA when idle (almost idle, an x-term and bq27200 on 60s interval)17:31
DocScrutinizer51if it's using 6mAh/h...17:31
Estel_soa fter 34 hours it eats up ~0-80 mA17:31
Estel_24 hours*17:31
Estel_scratch ythat. I mena 70-80 mAh17:31
Estel_less of battery power17:31
Estel_after 24 hours in deep sleep17:31
Estel_on properly configured device17:31
DocScrutinizer51this wind power plant can provide electric energy for 500 houses per year17:32
Estel_Actually, i'm using it for ages, for overnight sleep - device wakes up in ~2 seconds17:32
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Estel_N900 implementation haw few flaws, though.17:32
Estel_first of all, not only slide-lock wake sit up17:33
Estel_but also power buttonm and camera button17:33
teotwakiholy shit, char E[1<<25]="              ; } }     { { } { { ; ; {     } } { { ;   { { {       { { } ; }   { { ; {   { { ;     { } ; ; ; {     ; ; ; }   } ;   } { { ;   } }   ; } } ; ; }     { ; } } { } } }       } }   ; { { } } } ;   } } } {   }   ; ; ; {     } ; { { {   ; {   ; } } {   { { } { { ; ; { {   } } { { ;   { { {       { { } ; }   { { ; {   { { ;     { } ; ; ;       ; ;   }   } ;   } { { ;   } }   ;   } ; ; }     { ; }17:33
teotwaki} } } }       } }   ; { { }   ; ;   }   ; {   }   ; ; ; {     } ; {   {   ; {   ; } } {   { { } {   ; ; { {   } } { {   { { { {       { {     ;   {   ; {   {   ;     {         {     ; ;     { } ;     ",*a[40],*q=E+20,*T=E+1080;17:33
Estel_so now way to keep it in pocket without waking up17:33
merlin1991Estel_: don't forget camera lid wakes it up aswell17:33
teotwakiS(0)V(A[2]&7)-2*(A[2]&8),V A[3],S(4)S(6)q+=8) q+=22;17:33
Estel_2nd flaw - GSM wifgi,m bluetooth or any other comm wakes it up after immediately, so yoiu can do it only in offline mode, obviously17:33
merlin1991teotwaki: wtf is that? :D17:33
Estel_merlin1991, true, but I'm talking about things easy to click by mistake17:33
teotwakiC code.17:33
MohammadAGmerlin1991, syntax test17:34
MohammadAGand it checks out, all weird stuff is between ""17:34
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: the whole suspend-to-ram thing been evaluted by speedevil ~2 years ago17:35
Estel_I know. So?17:35
DocScrutinizer51and yes, it's known that it takes ~3mA, and the downside is unsolicited msgs from modem will resume it all the time17:35
Estel_I wonder if it would be possible to fix it17:36
DocScrutinizer51in theory it is17:36
Estel_in kernel, maybe?17:36
DocScrutinizer51there are commands to block unsolicited msgs17:36
DocScrutinizer51in modem17:36
spark666i didnt saw the entire conversation,but where i need to submit to win a n950?:D17:36
DocScrutinizer51at least *some* modems can do that17:36
teotwakispark666: who the fuck are you?17:36
vi_spark666: they are all gone17:37
teotwakispark666: and do you deserve an n950?17:37
spark666vi_: tnx17:37
vi_spark666: first come first served17:37
spark666teotwaki: why are you rude?17:37
vi_spark666: I got atleast 3.17:37
spark666i just asked17:37
teotwakiSo did I?17:37
freemangordonyeah, too late, even vi_ cannot get one :D17:37
vi_spark666: it is a contentious issue that has caused much friction.17:37
DocScrutinizer51o/ freemangordon17:37
teotwakialso, I'm an arse, so I'm rude to whomever I want :P17:38
spark666teotwaki: a-ha17:38
merlin1991also spark666 see
merlin1991and don't trust trolls on irc ;)17:39
spark666merlin1991: tnx17:39
teotwakimerlin1991: you calling me a troll?17:39
freemangordonnah, he was talking about me17:39
vi_teotwaki: are you claiming you are not?17:40
teotwakiwell, yeah.17:40
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teotwakiI'm helpful.17:40
vi_A troll would say that.17:40
teotwakiI made it very clear that unless said devil's spark has accomplished serious things for the Maemo community, it is useless to apply.17:40
vi_what would docscrutiniser say if I were to ask hime if you are a troll?17:41
teotwakihow about I kick your ass and we're done with this discussion?17:41
teotwakiI may have been less eloquent when conveying said message, but still, my point stands.17:41
vi_come at me bro.17:41
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teotwakinuff said.17:41
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vi_I will beat you so hard even your grand kids will be smarting.17:42
vi_In fact it will be such a beating you will not be able to reproduce.17:42
vi_It will be your grand kids in a parallel reality.17:42
teotwakivi_: Do you seriously want to go there?17:42
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* MohammadAG ponders about microwaving some popcorn17:44
NIN101in this "conversation", there can only be winners :D17:44
teotwakilosers, but some more than others.17:44
DocScrutinizer51ooooh popcorn17:44
* MohammadAG pops some17:45
* DocScrutinizer51 starts the microwave17:45
* teotwaki sets up a popcorn stand and makes quick buck17:45
teotwakis/makes/makes a/17:45
* MohammadAG demands free community award popcorn17:45
teotwakiI read that as "demands community awarded porn"17:45
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MohammadAGwe offer that?17:46
* luke-jr wonders what's up with all the MCA nominations with no accomplishments at all…17:46
teotwakiluke-jr: you're one of the few I'd support.17:47
teotwakiivgalvez: Can I voice my support of a few candidacies?17:47
teotwakiivgalvez: will that have any kind of effect?17:47
MohammadAGneed, harmattan, SDK17:48
* MohammadAG stabs merlin1991 17:48
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ivgalvezteotwaki: nope17:49
ivgalvezit's Council decission17:49
teotwakidecision even17:49
merlin1991MohammadAG: ...17:49
teotwakifair enough, better not to have a popularity contest.17:49
MrPinguindeed, filters out all non-contributing17:50
merlin1991MohammadAG: what exactly do you need?17:50
MohammadAGmerlin1991, it's a secret :P17:50
teotwakiAlso, doing things purely "past achievements" is completely stupid to be honest.17:50
merlin1991then why stab me :D17:50
MohammadAGmerlin1991, you told me to delete /scratchbox17:51
merlin1991after you cleansed everything and backed up your sb home dirs17:51
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merlin1991you're free to install the harm sdk again, just make sure not to pollute your cssu build env ;)17:52
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vi_teotwaki: surely it is the best indication?17:52
MohammadAGmerlin1991, that's the problem, reinstalling it17:52
merlin1991err why?17:53
MohammadAGnot everyone has a highspeed internet connection17:53
MohammadAGwell, in dorms at least17:53
merlin1991get the scratchbox debs, install them, dl a rootstrap extract and done :D17:53
merlin1991and ofc do all that with a 3GB/s downstream :D17:53
teotwakiivgalvez: Maybe we should posthumously attribute one to lcuk? He single-handedly inspired a generation of maemoers at onedotzero. Or maybe I could run as well? I wrote a couple of apps, helped dev/run liqbase for a while, I also helped release the injection wifi driver, I used to be a tmo mod, etc, yet, by current standards, my contributions amount to a load of bollocks on IRC...17:53
teotwakivi_: ^17:53
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* RST38h is all for voting lcuk into the council17:54
teotwaki+1 RST38h17:54
teotwakiI mean, people who *did* a lot for the community, there's heaps.17:54
vi_people who did a lot AND still contribute.17:55
teotwakiwell, that's not defined, is it?17:55
vi_i.e. qwerty12, probably not eligable?17:55
teotwakiwhy not?17:55
RST38hNo way he can be less active in this role than other candidates17:55
teotwakiIs the idea to attract talented devs? Get them back to the platforms?17:55
teotwakiOr is it just a "so long and thanks for all the fish" movement?17:55
vi_Because he says he hates everyone and is not interested anymore.17:55
teotwakihe doesn't say that.17:56
vi_Titan, grandfather of the power kernel.17:56
vi_not eligable.17:56
teotwakiHe may have stated that, but the feeling I get from the few emails I've exchanged with him are very different -- he's grown, and changed. Prod him, and he just might come back.17:56
vi_then more power to him17:57
teotwakiI'm just saying, past achievements only are a pretty poor performance indicator.17:57
vi_They are a good place to start though.17:58
teotwakiIf the same had been done two or three years ago when MohammadAG just joined, we wouldn't have seen a lot; yet he's now one, if not the, maemo star dev.17:58
teotwaki*cough* and I showed him his moves... *cough*17:58
vi_you are almost angling for pro-life type arguments here.17:58
MohammadAGI must say I would've sucked without lcuk17:58
MohammadAGalterego and Venemo for help with C++17:59
Jaffateotwaki: Future promises have also been shown to be pretty poor too. Look at what ppl promise to get a free device and then never deliver.17:59
teotwakiJaffa: I never said future promises were a good indicator.17:59
Jaffateotwaki: IOW, all ways suck. The current approach seems to have produced more suckers17:59
teotwakiThis being said, I think explaining the real reasoning behind this device giveaway wouldn't be such a bad thing.18:00
MohammadAGmerlin1991, 85% :D18:00
teotwakiSeriously, is the idea to attract known good devs back to the platform?18:00
teotwakiIf so, send one to qwerty, titan, fanoush.18:00
MohammadAGJebba too18:00
vi_teotwaki: GREAT IDEA18:00
teotwakiIf on the other hand, they're just sending away devices to get rid of them18:01
teotwakithen make it a quick draw18:01
vi_distribute them to all the legendary devs who have moved on.  Then, effectivly NO ONE benefits.18:01
teotwakihow do you know?18:01
teotwakithose guys at least would have the ethics to send it to the next dev down the line if they're not going to do anything with them. The same can't be said about no-names on the mailing list18:02
vi_Just like he had the ethics to unlock power kernel so pali could contiue development on it?18:02
MohammadAGunlock it?18:02
MohammadAGPali just encountered a bug, it's not titan's fault18:03
vi_add maintainer, whatever.18:03
MohammadAGX-Fade, could do that18:03
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MrPinguI think the best way to determine who deserves a price is by looking how is the person is contributing in general. Someone who joined in '11 had less time to do a (good) past deed than someone who joined in '10.18:08
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Palifreemangordon, see:
teotwakiAnd for those who joined in 2007?18:11
Palikernel-power-flasher v50 is now in extras!18:11
Palipromote button today worked!18:12
PaliI do not belive18:12
vi_Pali: get in my son!18:12
merlin1991Pali: you're delirious18:12
MrPinguPali, Thank you it had quite some time enough votes :D18:12
RaimuThe structure of time/space has Altered.18:12
merlin1991the Space/Time continuum has been broken, ohnoes!18:12
teotwakiMohammadAG: seems the bug I found was actually a bug in the use of variadic templates in boost, not g++.18:13
Palialso kernel-power-modules :)18:13
teotwakithough, g++ wasn't being helpful, clang managed to sort it out without issues.18:13
Paliand kernel-power package too :D
MrPinguPali, Awesome!18:13
* teotwaki resets his beastie boys playlist, and switches onto developing his new call distribution algorithm :)18:14
PaliX-Fade fixed repository problems now?18:14
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vi_although I can still crash n900 with KP50 and smart reflex enabled.18:14
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RaimuPali: What about -settings ?18:14
PaliI clicked on promote button now for -settings18:14
Paliwait about 1 hour to see if it is working18:15
Palibooting is promoted too:
RaimuNow it might be a whole different user report ballpark.18:15
RaimuI mean, extras users might have new things to say about kp50. It's been many version hikes since the last extras kp.18:16
RaimuPretty cool.18:16
vi_If I put the system under heavy load AND then watch the '2 headed shark attack' trailer with cutetube AND have SR vdd1 on I get an insta-reboot.18:17
vi_No vdd1 on and it is ok.18:17
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Palikernel-power packages are really in Maemo Extras repository, see:
Paliand settings too:
Paliso now kernel-power v50 with kernel-power-settings 0.14 are in Maemo Extras!18:22
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PaliI should write this day to my diary :D18:23
Raimuvi_: That new compcachin' thread sounds like an elaborate april fools trick considering how promising the settings testing now looks.18:24
RaimuOne for the "sounds too good to be true" files, I mean.18:24
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vi_Raimu: how do you mean18:28
DocScrutinizer51vi_: I seem to have missed the point of your argumentation. after all we know SR is broken in hardware18:29
DocScrutinizer51that's why Nokia never enabled it18:29
vi_DocScrutinizer51: I was under the impression they never enabled it because they never finished the driver for it.18:29
vi_but I guess you are now going to tell me how wrong I am?18:30
luke-jrwhat is SR?18:30
DocScrutinizer51for all I know SR is merely hw-based18:30
Raimuvi_: Well, it has me drooling for one18:30
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: SmartReflex18:30
vi_Raimu: compcache was always going to be bikg, we just never figured the right settings to use it.18:30
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: here particularly the automagic dynamic core voltage tuning18:30
Raimuvi_: Yeah, and my experiences with ramz were dismal in the past so I was kind of giving up on that.18:31
MrPinguIt works for me 100% allright with dsp profile18:31
* luke-jr is pretty sure he's used compcache on N810 and/or N90018:31
freemangordonPali, lets go to the bar and celebrate18:31
MrPinguOnly reboots is still with writing/downloading large files18:31
vi_Raimu: test it yourself and make your own conclusion.  For now I am keeping it on to try and find ways to brake my current settings.18:32
Raimuvi_: I will - and thanks for the updates. Keep reporting!18:32
freemangordonPali, you said you are belever, now i have no option but to join the club :D18:32
vi_Raimu: dont thank me, thank the guys who made it work.18:32
freemangordonvi_, is your device OC when you have a reboot with SR turned on?18:32
ShadowJKi just wish there was better prioritization of ramz.. typically my N900 has 128M in swap that's basically never touched.. for ramzswap to be useful, this seldomly used data should sit on flash not in ram, and heavy swapping go to ramzswap.. however, with the backing swap option  that seems to be designed for this, the access patterns to flash become so horribly random that flash slows down to like 20kbytes/sec...18:33
DocScrutinizer51well, and maybe undervolted as well ;-)18:33
freemangordonwell, increase your DSP voltage then, i've never said SR will be 100% stable on 100% of the devices when there is OC18:33
Palifreemangordon, so now can Nokia release their closed source fremantle parts :D:D:D18:33
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, UV does not work when SR is enabled18:34
* ShadowJK 's n900 is mostly immune to "reboot during big writes" syndrome18:34
MrPinguThat can be fixed with better i/O settings, though. Your ramzswap settings  definitely  are tempting to try, vi_18:34
DocScrutinizer51surprise surprise18:34
* freemangordon 's n900 is 100% immune to "reboot during big writes"18:34
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: believe it or not, I *never* encountered such reboot18:34
vi_I think the real test is decompressing easy debian image WHILE torrenting with transmission.18:35
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, try to unpack easy debian stuff on the device18:35
DocScrutinizer51well, I did similar stuff18:35
DocScrutinizer51like trying to copy 12GB from eMMC to uSD18:36
freemangordonthat work everytime if your VM settings are not tweaked18:36
freemangordonnah, it is not the same18:36
ShadowJKMine isn't, after some amount of uptime, about 3-4 weeks, big writes will result in emmc stalling to 0 writes/minute indefinitely, also seems to stall uSD. Device works as long as everything I do is already in ram or on nand. everything that needs a swapin or pageing from /opt hangs though, and eventually the amount of hung stuff becomes too big for the watchdogs, which reboot device. :)18:37
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Palinow I'd like know, who fixed repository & package interface problem?18:37
PaliX-Fade? or somebody else?18:37
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DocScrutinizer51I'd like to know who messed up wiki18:37
Palior is self repairing infrastructure?18:37
Paliand also self destructing :D18:38
Paliwhat is with wiki?18:38
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freemangordonvi_, add a little juice to your DSP using /sys/power/sr_vdd1_dsp_boost (i.e. try with 200, max is 250, default 125) and try again to see if it will reboot18:40
DocScrutinizer51layout or CSS fsckd up, not sure if it's exactly wiki. Anyway lately we got complaints about that "maemo BETA" which is supposed to be gone since years afaik.18:40
DocScrutinizer51I can't find the search field anymore in wiki18:40
DocScrutinizer51on upper right. It's still there but not showing18:41
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, SR has its HW part, but it relies on efuse "parameters" and that seems to be screwed up on n900. Though I can bet it is TI, not Nokia to blame18:42
freemangordonBTW did you try it?18:43
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freemangordonyou run KP50 AFAIK18:43
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DocScrutinizer51and my guts feeling tells me the real problem is somewhere in circuit design, regarding buffer capacitors on Vcore, trace impedances, whatnot18:43
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: negative18:43
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: me? KP50?18:43
freemangordonnot eunning KP at all?18:44
MohammadAGfreemangordon, it unpacks and slows down the whole device18:44
MohammadAGbut the device keeps running18:44
freemangordongive it some time. do you have swappolube installed?18:45
DocScrutinizert900:/usr/local/sbin# uname -a18:45
DocScrutinizerLinux t900 #1 PREEMPT Sun Dec 12 03:11:24 EET 2010 armv7l unknown18:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, no need to stick with that, KP46 has more bugs that you can imagine18:45
freemangordontrust me (tm)18:46
DocScrutinizer51the point is t900 is fubar18:46
DocScrutinizer51apt refuses to install or deinstall anything18:46
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: :(18:47
DocScrutinizer51messed up dependencies18:47
Paliuse aptitude18:47
DocScrutinizer51and it serves me well for testing an occasional hostmode scriptie18:47
DocScrutinizer51Pali: HAHA18:48
Paliaptitude solved all my dependency problems :D18:48
DocScrutinizer51I might get the aptitude.deb if only wget was installed on t90018:48
freemangordonPali, how do you think, can we upstream my patches for secure PPA API?18:48
PaliDocScrutinizer51, you can download aptitude to computer and transfer via usb mass storage mode18:49
DocScrutinizer51might be possible18:49
Palifreemangordon, what so you mean under "upstream"?18:49
vi_freemangordon: I tried 250, insta reboot18:49
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freemangordonvi_, what is DSP frequency?18:50
Palito upstream kernel 3.x?18:50
freemangordonPali, yep18:50
freemangordonvi_, does it reboot if not OC18:51
Paliclone some arm/omap git tree or linux-next or linus tree, apply your patch, test if working on n900 and send it to linux-omap18:51
vi_freemangordon: one second. still booting!18:52
freemangordonPali, since when 3.x kernel boots on n900?18:52
Paliyou can also test it on rescueos/meego kernel (rx51 board files was not very changed after 2.6.35/37)18:53
Paliand rescueos/meego kernel booting fine18:53
vi_swapoff /dev/ramzswap0 && sleep 118:53
vi_rmmod /ramzswap && sleep 118:53
vi_insmod /lib/modules/current/ramzswap.ko disksize_kb=131072 && sleep 118:53
vi_swapon /dev/ramzswap0 && sleep 118:53
vi_swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3 && sleep 1 && swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3 && sleep 118:53
vi_echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_ratio18:53
vi_echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_background_ratio18:53
vi_echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_writeback_centisecs18:53
vi_echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/dirty_expire_centisecs18:53
vi_echo 32 > /proc/sys/vm/min_free_kbytes18:53
vi_echo 99 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness18:53
vi_echo 200 > /proc/sys/vm/vfs_cache_pressure18:53
vi_echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/page-cluster18:53
vi_echo 1024 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests18:53
vi_echo 1024 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests18:54
vi_echo 0 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/slice_idle18:54
vi_echo 0 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/slice_idle18:54
vi_echo 32 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/quantum18:54
vi_echo 32 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/quantum18:54
vi_echo 80 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync18:54
vi_echo 80 > /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_sync18:54
vi_echo 180 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/iosched/fifo_expire_async18:54
vi_wrong xterm18:54
PaliNIN101, what kernel is used for rescueos?18:55
freemangordonPali, forward-port sould be a piece of cake, i made those board-specific, my question was more general. i.e. do you think it will be approved (by whoever approves that shit, Lunus?) for upstreaming18:55
NIN1012.6.37 from meego summer edition, with a few different kernel options18:55
PaliNIN101, ok18:56
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Palifreemangordon, I think this could be upstreamed18:56
Paliyou only needs to write proper patch18:56
freemangordonBTW I have enough eggs in my basket right now. So playing with 3.x will have to wait18:57
freemangordonPali, but if you (or whoever reads that) feels like he can do it, I am all for it.18:58
freemangordoni.e. upstreaming the secure PPA API for n90018:59
PaliI'm doing on upstreaming bq2415x_charger driver and rx51 u-boot and u-boot bootmenu18:59
Paliits lot18:59
freemangordonPali, how do you test your patches?19:00
freemangordonfor kernel19:00
Palibq2415x driver I'm testing on 2.6.2819:00
freemangordonand that could be upstreamed?19:00
Palipower supply interface was not changed19:00
Palionly some glue for isp and board code needs to be tested on something higher that 2.6.2819:01
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MohammadAGmerlin1991, woo, download stoppde19:34
DocScrutinizer51stopped is bad, finished is good19:34
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DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: Pali: I think sending a patch to LKML is not the automatic approval for that patch to go upstream - at least it shouldn't19:38
Palisend it as RFC19:39
Paliyou get opinions of other developers about your patch19:40
Palialso what is needed to change for upstreaming...19:40
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DocScrutinizer51yeah, and in  this case these opinions might well be "please separate it to decent single patchsets for each functional entity, and we'll look at it again maybe"19:41
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DocScrutinizer51you can't hope to send a pile'o'patches without proper explanation in clear text in the first of the set of mails, and just dealing with one particular aspect in each patchset19:42
DocScrutinizer51I've seen some guys doing this kind of upstreaming effort for openmoko kernel19:43
DocScrutinizer51took like 6 months19:43
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DocScrutinizer51and AIUI our pretty nice lis302dl driver still isn't upstream, as there's some crappy joystick handler kernel module of the same name already19:45
DocScrutinizer51same for (!!) bq27k.ko19:46
freemangordonDocScrutinizer, you'd better look at the patches before concluding "pile'o'patches" :).
DocScrutinizer51though for other reasons afaik19:46
DocScrutinizer51I'm not concluding19:46
DocScrutinizer51just handwaving19:46
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, BTW if you have knowledge/will I will be glad to have your helping hand on that.19:48
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: btw looking at that git commit I don't see *any* of the mandatory commenting and separating I mentioned sabove19:48
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, the commit is in CSSU repo, hopefully guys still does not approve the commits there19:50
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, exactly, it stopped19:50
MohammadAGThe rootstrap is bitch to download :/19:50
MohammadAGespecially when you had over 60% downloaded and need to start over :/19:50
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: and it is separated, actually the whole patch is in 2 commits, separated, the one I posted is not separateable19:51
Paliplease help me with collecting atags for u-boot:
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: I just meant each patchset on LKML et all needs a header like
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DocScrutinizer51explaining what the whole thing does, etc19:53
DocScrutinizer51you won't get any review without such header19:54
freemangordonhmm, never seen stuff like that on LKML19:54
DocScrutinizer51except of course the comment "please read patch howto"19:54
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: you may get away without such header for mere bugfix patches19:55
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DocScrutinizer51and even then you need a referrence to the ticket, or alternatively an explanation of the bug it's supposed to fix19:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, thanks for the info, anyway I won't have time to go through this anytime soon19:56
DocScrutinizer51that's what I thought19:56
DocScrutinizer51a pity19:56
DocScrutinizer51it's a friggin PITA to upstream a huge batch of aged patches19:57
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, we are talking about 100-200 lines of board specific code. BTW the fact that it fixes upstreamed errata workaround could be used to ease the process19:58
DocScrutinizer51good point19:58
DocScrutinizer51and I have to confess I missed the start of your chat with pali19:58
DocScrutinizer51so I don't know what's the patch(es) in question19:59
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freemangordonyeah, as usual you don't read what I write :P19:59
DocScrutinizer51it sounded like you were going to upstream KP5019:59
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freemangordonnooo waaay19:59
DocScrutinizer51lol, yeah19:59
DocScrutinizer51is it about your thumb thing?20:00
DocScrutinizer51good move to upstream it, so it might get proper review20:00
freemangordonbut it actually eaxposes PPA calls to kernel20:00
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freemangordonwell, might think to try to upstream it when there is nothing more interesting to do :D20:01
DocScrutinizer51I'll gladly review your mail to LKML before you send it, so we might avoid some things better not to do so the masters up there don't feel annoyed20:02
freemangordonok, thanks20:02
freemangordonnow I just have to find someone to write the mail, i'll gladly send it to you for a review :D20:02
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* DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders what those 11 (living) temperature values in system/sensors/thinkpad-isa-0000 might be20:07
MohammadAGso, two ways to have status menu plugins on harmattan20:08
MohammadAG1) Patch systemui and incept the package, hopefully this works20:08
DocScrutinizer51actually only 9, two are from system/sensors/acpitz-virtual/processor*20:08
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, talking about temperature: What was the correct sensor i have to read to get the battery temperature. I am going to finish libbmeipc these days20:08
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MohammadAG2) Find out how systemui is started, patch or whatever it's called, so QRegExp(QString) returns QRegExp() and then LD_PRELOAD the library20:08
DocScrutinizer51err, ACD4 or sth20:08
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freemangordonfrom /dev/twl4030-adc20:09
freemangordondo it needs conversion?20:09
DocScrutinizer51for sure20:09
DocScrutinizer51nobody knows which20:10
DocScrutinizer51except bme and Nokia20:10
MohammadAGyou could read the value and measure the approximate real temperature and try to find a pattern20:11
DocScrutinizer51your best bet is to heat or cool the battery incl whole device to maybe 0°C and 40°C20:11
MohammadAGI doubt they're multiplying by device IMEI, for example :p20:11
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MohammadAGOH FUCK20:11
DocScrutinizer51then insert battery into device, and do a readout after 60S20:11
MohammadAGhe was here20:11
freemangordonI missed him too20:12
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer, any clue what type of sensor is that?20:12
* DocScrutinizer51 hopes for next wintertime to see javispedro around more often20:12
MohammadAGwish infobot had a $USER is here, $USER_WHO_NEEDS_$USER ping20:12
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: NTC20:13
freemangordonbecause we can only hope for a linear readout20:13
DocScrutinizer51alas NTC are each a bit different20:13
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, CAL?20:13
DocScrutinizer51and usually that readout won't be linear20:13
DocScrutinizer51nah, one type differs from next one20:14
DocScrutinizer51in one build/batch they are quite identical20:14
DocScrutinizer51so get a proper curve with 3 or 4 support points, then get coefficients for a polynom20:15
freemangordonbut there should be calibration values stored somewhere. So my question was "are those values stored in CAL"20:15
DocScrutinizer51I think it must be 2nd or max 3rd order polynom20:15
DocScrutinizer51no, I guess those are hardcoded20:15
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer51, I know the theory :)20:16
freemangordonbut I am afraid i have to RE a part of BME too20:16
freemangordonto get those20:16
DocScrutinizer51nah, get your support points from real world tests like suggested by MohammadAGand me20:17
DocScrutinizer51-10°C, 15°C, 40°C, 55°C20:17
freemangordonhmm. BME definitely interacts with CAL20:19
DocScrutinizer51Nokia might have the data to include a PID correction even, to give faster accurate readouts, but we probably don't really need that20:19
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DocScrutinizer51yes, it does20:19
DocScrutinizer51but I guess for some battery status shite20:19
freemangordonnah, PID correction wouldn't make sense, the process of heating is not so fast20:20
DocScrutinizer51there's a HUGE number of BME records in CAL20:20
DocScrutinizer51usually not that fast, but if *ever* it is, you damn better hit the big red buttton FAST20:21
DocScrutinizer51since Nokia is chicken with their batteries since they encountered that mega-desaster...20:22
DocScrutinizer51I *guess* they back when decided to outtsource BME, incl all liability20:23
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DocScrutinizer51which in turn might be main reason they *cannot* disclose the bme source20:24
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DocScrutinizer51"listen hitachi, we're going to buy 20 million batteries from you. It's your call to tell what hw requirements those cells have for mainenance circuitry, and it's up to you to provide software and take all responsibility"20:26
ShadowJKMy N810 is acting up :(20:26
* ShadowJK suspects emmc or, more likely, the uSD is dying20:26
DocScrutinizer51well that's at least an easy one to trage20:27
ShadowJKYou know, the performance of all the original genuine BP-5L I've ha in N810 and N800 has been abysmal. The charging system abuses the batteries to death, or then they're pretty low quality to start with20:28
DocScrutinizer51both I guess20:29
ShadowJKBL-5J did much better in N900 over a 2 year period20:29
DocScrutinizer51it's LiIon, not LiPo, no?20:29
DocScrutinizer51bl-5j that is20:30
ShadowJKsame thing20:30
DocScrutinizer51not exactly20:30
ShadowJKif it's not a cylindrical pressure vessel: LiPo20:30
DocScrutinizer51LiPo are of higher energy density but flimsy quality20:31
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ShadowJKI doubt whether regular Li-Ion has ever been used in any cellphone20:31
DocScrutinizer51I always thought there are both LiIon and LiPo in flat cells20:31
DocScrutinizer51well, my Y2000 6210 battery definitely been no LiPo but plain LiIon20:32
DocScrutinizer51lasted at least 9 years of daily usage20:33
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ShadowJKThe big difference in energy density comes from Li-Po not needing metal container and safety valve, the "Polymer" bit keeps it together so you can pack it a pouch20:33
ShadowJKa thin lightweight pouch20:33
DocScrutinizer51GTA02 smart battery been with valve and vessel20:34
ShadowJKWhen you remove the structural bits, I'm pretty sure regular Li-Ion has greater energy density20:35
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ShadowJKYou can see it with Li-Ion as you go down in size from 18650 to like 14500 size, and compare energy density vs nimh in same formfactor20:35
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ShadowJKI suspect Marketing has built up li-Po as some sort of magical thing20:36
DocScrutinizer51anyway afaik N8x0 battery been LiPo while N900 has LiIon again20:37
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DocScrutinizer51either me or Nokia product pages might be wrong20:38
ivgalvezOh, I have a pile of spam to process20:38
DocScrutinizer51the downside of popularity?20:39
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* DocScrutinizer51 waves20:41
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ShadowJKI'm pretty sure both are LiPo :P20:47
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Sicelotalking about batteries.. my bme seems to have gone mad... giving that sick sound when bq27200 says there's still 35% power left.21:00
MohammadAGI miss that sick sound21:02
MohammadAGever since I installed my rewritten status battery plugin it's gone, (since I never implemented sound playback)21:02
DocScrutinizer51Sicelo: thaqt doesn't mean a thing21:02
DocScrutinizer51Sicelo: bq27200 and bme just work differently21:03
DocScrutinizer51bq27k actually integrates the mAh drained from battery, while bme alarm is absed on voltage of cell21:03
MohammadAGone of either is BS? :P21:04
DocScrutinizer51no, they just mean different properties of cell21:04
ShadowJKthe bme warning is more based on the point at which cell no longer could maintain sufficient voltage under some arbitrary maximum load21:05
DocScrutinizer51while bq27 might be right there are 35% of 1300mAh left for slow drain, bme is right in voltage has dropped below a certain value for >30s or sth (threshold 3520mV or sth)21:05
ShadowJKIf you do learning cycles under heavy load (500mA or more), the bq27 capacity will probably step down a bit21:05
DocScrutinizer51quite a bit, yeah21:06
ShadowJKExcept for my current battery21:09
Sicelohmm, thanks for info. i'll do a proper learning cycle on the next run..21:09
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RaimuMohammadAG: What is this rewritten status battery plugin of yours?21:09
ShadowJKonce it hits 3248mV, even with screen off there's just seconds before it collapses to shutdown point21:09
MohammadAGit's in CSSU repos21:09
MohammadAGgit repos*21:09
ShadowJKalso charges about an hour faster than the old worn BL-5J21:10
Siceloi have never been able to go down to 3300mV with bme running.. always shuts down long before21:10
* ShadowJK doesn't use bme21:11
Sicelo:)21:11 FTW21:12
* DocScrutinizer51 idly wonders what the 21 means21:12
DocScrutinizer5142 / 2 ?21:12
MohammadAGit's like takes in movies21:12
RaimuI was guessing script revision number. :P21:12
MohammadAGthe number of N900s sacrificed in the process of making the script21:12
ShadowJKsecond branch, second version21:12
Siceloyou don't keep bme stopped, do you?21:12
ShadowJKI do21:13
Siceloall the time?21:13
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK probably not started bme since 2 years21:13
DocScrutinizer51yeah wow21:13
DocScrutinizer51that's the quality of our silly little hacks21:13
ShadowJKActually when I migrated from old modem-dead N900 to new I had bme started for usb-ethernet21:14
DocScrutinizer51aaah I see21:14
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RaimuBME is mainly required by some SUPER BATTERY DETECTOR apps, autoshutdown and stock Hildon battery status, right?21:14
DocScrutinizer51I recently downloadede charge21 to IroN900 to charge from a batterypack with missing D+- short21:15
ShadowJK(charge* does all sorta of random hacks to push usb as far into shutdown as possible)21:15
DocScrutinizer51Raimu: yup21:15
RaimuIt also handles charging, but that's it?21:15
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ShadowJKRunning without bme would probably be bad if you're in the habbit of often letting your N900 run empty21:16
ShadowJKMy spare N900 runs with bme enabled, because I don't always remember to plug it in every week21:16
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DocScrutinizer51also has the unconvenient property of needing a tiny bit of care21:16
DocScrutinizer51though it should be fine for always-on-charger devices21:17
RaimuIs the problem with letting the battery run empty without BME in that the battery would then run out without BME kicking in with a graceful shutdown?21:17
DocScrutinizer51I''m not all ure if ShadowJK dealt with that21:17
ShadowJKRaimu; yeah21:18
DocScrutinizer51(that = bq27k restarting charging on hitting that magic threshold)21:18
ShadowJKWith my old BL-5J, the restart threshold was about 2 seconds after full charge21:19
MohammadAGwho said Harmattan was crap21:19
MohammadAGbreak aegis in one way or another, and have fun21:19
ShadowJKthis japod however, maintains voltage above 4130 or wherever the rechfge threshold is, for hours in idle21:19
DocScrutinizer51the way it's supposed to be, yeah21:20
Estel_Today is a "happened" day, or what?21:20
Estel_Pali, X-Fade fixed KP after mne bugging him, afaik21:20
Estel_of course I mean rpomotion21:20
Estel_or any other motion ;021:21
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Estel_now, as per SR - DocScrutinizer, you're light years away, freemangordon basically fixed calibration values for SR during last ice age21:21
RaimuHere we go again.21:21
Estel_it's 100% stable for up to 900 mhz, sometimes it just need boosting voltage via sysfs, but only in rare cases21:22
Estel_some fools are using it up to 1000 mhz21:22
PaliEstel_, kp is fixed :)21:22
Estel_during contest "how to try egg on Yiour handheld"21:22
Estel_Pali, i know :)21:22
Estel_just red through backscroll21:22
Estel_You guys are talking so much, that my family is going to kill me for reading all of it21:22
RaimuEstel: But really, there isn't calibration at all for 1Ghz, is there.21:22
Estel_I'm glad Council was able to help :D (adveristment, product placement)21:23
Estel_Raimu, of course there isn';t21:23
Estel_those fool are running 1000 mhz on values for 900 mhz21:23
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: could you please translate to a scientific or even Electronics Engineer speaking?21:23
Estel_just loike before, some guys were using 805 mhz with values for 600 mhz21:23
RaimuEstel: Yeah, figured it just defaults to the last defined one.21:23
Estel_DocScrutinizer, unfortunately, no, ask freemangordon, he implemented it21:23
Estel_DocScrutinizer, basically problem was, that it was calibrated only for some certain speed, i.e. 600 mhz, so for 250 it was too high (watse of energy) and for >805 mhz too low, usually21:24
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Estel_= instability oir instant reboot21:24
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Estel_Now, it's properly calibrated for every step of frequency, and it's giving REAL benefits in bnattery21:24
Estel_most people consider it at 1/3, if You filter out placebo ones that talk about twice. well, it depend son usage patterns21:25
Estel_for technical details, GTF... erm, I mean go to ask Freemangordon21:25
Estel_Pali, I also can't belive it worked so fast :D21:26
Estel_You see, new council rox ;P (joking)21:26
Estel_(or not ;) )21:26
Paliit was really so fast :D it tooks one year :D21:26
Palifreemangordon, see:
Pali#define TWL4030_MADC_BTEMP              TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN121:26
MohammadAG~ $ rm /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brightn21:27
MohammadAGrm: can't remove '/usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/': Permission denied21:27
MohammadAG~ $ ls -l /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brig21:27
MohammadAG-rwxr-xr-x    1 user     users       478798 May 28 21:12 /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libstatusindicatormenu-brightness.so21:27
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MohammadAGI don't get it21:27
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DocScrutinizer51Estel_: honestly there's no way community can "properly calibrate" VCore21:28
Estel_AIUI SR uses some pre-defined values21:28
DocScrutinizer51as a basic immutable fact CPU needs MORE voltage for higher speed. not less21:29
Estel_of something ;P I said that, better ask freemangordon21:29
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Estel_not related, I think we're not udnerstanding each other due to my non-tech-engineer work21:29
infobotEstel_ meant: not related, I think we're not udnerstanding each other due to my non-tech-engineer language21:29
Estel_most important think for me is that it works, and works well for ages :P21:29
Estel_for more tech savyy discussion, ask freemangordon21:30
DocScrutinizer51ok, I hope you're publishing your advertising joy always with that disclaimer21:30
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MrPinguEstel_ you are not the only one who thinks it works well ^^21:32
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Palifreemangordon, run nokia application on n900: sudo bsi-read it show BSI and battery level. BSI is TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN4 and battery level is TWL4030_MADC_VBAT21:33
Pali#define TWL4030_MADC_VBAT               TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN1221:33
DocScrutinizer51as any other approach was more the notorious chinese way: just cut out components until device fails. If it fails remember last component cut out as mandatory, and redo. If you don't find any more single component to cut out without instant fail, you got optimal design -> go mass production21:33
freemangordonpali, thanks a lot, now, please put that somewhere (or mail it to me), please, so I can use it as a reference when I am back to libbmeipc21:34
Palifreemangordon, also see my source code of getbootstate and bsi-read on
DocScrutinizer51Pali: ADCIN12 ???21:34
PaliDocScrutinizer51, yes21:34
PaliI disassebled that code21:35
freemangordonTBH I think someone should gather all that info somewhere21:35
freemangordonPali, BSI?21:35
PaliDocScrutinizer51, see source code
slonopotamuswhat a good evening for some debian-related ranting...21:35
DocScrutinizer51Pali: you're sure that's not just another register57 as we've seen in bme for bq27200?21:35
PaliBSI = battery size indicator21:35
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DocScrutinizer51OOOH VBAT21:36
PaliDocScrutinizer51, no idea, but it outputs data21:36
freemangordonPali, but, but, is that capacity?21:36
DocScrutinizer51yeah ADCIN12 might be one of the 'internal' ADC channels directly connected to VBAT21:36
Paliis should be design capacity in some form (no idea how to convert it to mAh)21:37
DocScrutinizer51AAAH [20:26:58] <Pali> #define TWL4030_MADC_BTEMP              TWL4030_MADC_ADCIN121:37
freemangordonanyway, don't have time right now, have a nice evening gentlemen, I am afk21:37
DocScrutinizer51that's more like it21:37
Estel_see ya freemangordon21:37
Estel_DocScrutinizer, I jsut got d'ced and c'ed again, so i missed aprt of discussion but...21:38
Estel_Frankly, if You21:38
PaliDocScrutinizer51 for converting raw battery level use this: ((-2145384445)*level*6000) >> 32 + level*6000 - ((level*6000) >> 31)21:38
Estel_'re using kp46, it's no surprise to me, that You think KP is not compatible21:38
Palithis is from disassembled arm nokia binary21:38
DocScrutinizer51that's voltage then?21:38
Estel_basically, you're missing all work by Pali and freemangordon, and You're using plain titan's version21:38
Palimaybe, non raw value is about 361821:39
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Paliand if I'm good in calculus "((-2145384445)*level*6000) >> 32 + level*6000 - ((level*6000) >> 31)" could be equal to "level * 3003 / 512"21:40
Palicorrect me if not :D21:40
Estel_You do what You want, but I storngly encourage to use kp in it's all kp50 greatness ;)21:40
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: I don't need to use *any* version of KP to listen to reports from users, to read patches, to see rationales given21:40
Estel_DocScrutinizer, you're trying to tell me that You read all patches?21:40
Estel_you had no idea about any work re SR, so I storngly doubt that21:41
DocScrutinizer51for sure more tha you do21:41
infobotEstel_ meant: you had no idea about any work re SR, so I strongly doubt that21:41
PaliDocScrutinizer51, can you run sudo bsi-read on your n900 and write your values?21:41
Estel_for sure, but it's argument at persona ;)21:41
Estel_aka sophism21:41
Estel_It's quite funny that you're criticizing so many parts of it without even trying it Yourself. it seems, that doing so, you miss bigger picture. After all, you *don't* real all patches, re Sr discussion.21:42
DocScrutinizert900:/usr/local/sbin# bsi-read21:42
DocScrutinizerraw BSI ADC reading: 46821:42
DocScrutinizerBSI: 101021:42
Estel_anyway, i'm not going to go through it again :D21:42
DocScrutinizerraw battery level: 68821:42
DocScrutinizerbattery level: 403521:42
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Paliso "battery level" is battery voltage?21:43
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: my approach id quite different from the generally used "WFM \o/"21:43
Estel_WFM = ?21:44
DocScrutinizer514035 are mV VBAT21:44
infoboti guess wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications..  Works For Me21:44
DocScrutinizer51~wtf wfm21:44
infobotWFM: works for me21:44
slonopotamus~wtf wtf (yeah, a bit recursive)21:45
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infobotusage: wtf <foo>.21:45
Estel_DocScrutinizer, of course, but in current situation You're neither che4cking if it WFM, or all patches. so you're making general statements, basing them on either outdated concern 9re kp46 You're using) or other changes out of context.21:45
Estel_but it's your personal choice, of course21:45
Estel_personally, i don't have any problem with it ;)21:45
DocScrutinizer51I'm not surprised though, as most people deduce from their own situation to that of others all the time21:46
Estel_just need to remember, that when You make general statements like "I said that kernel-power is not compatible", you mean kp46, in fact.21:46
Estel_lokk@ result of powertop thing, from the very beginning You assumed it's KP fault, while, after investigation, it turned out to be quite otherwise21:47
Estel_although, I feel we're heading into another ideological discussion, which is not what I feel fancy, so i'll end it here.21:47
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: you're again starting to assume and declare a fact your very personal assumptions about what and how *I* do21:47
DocScrutinizer51I don't like that21:47
PaliDocScrutinizer51, and what exactly is BSI value (ADCIN4)?21:47
DocScrutinizer51Battery Size Indicator21:48
Estel_I'm more a practical guy, so I rather thing about effects, not "mean/not mean" ;) still, i think your battery discussion is more interesting21:48
DocScrutinizer513rd pin of battery21:48
DocScrutinizer51Pali: ^^^21:48
DocScrutinizer51obviously my bsi-read thinks the battery has a resistor there that means "battery 1100mAh"21:49
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DocScrutinizer51err 101021:49
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DocScrutinizer51the fun part in all this is: in former times batteries had a NTC there, and mugen still have21:51
Sicelowhere's this bsi-read .. where can i get it?21:51
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DocScrutinizer51means your bsi-read's notion about battery size will change with battery temperature21:51
PaliSicelo /sbin/bsi-read21:53
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Paliit is part of Maemo5 core system21:53
Paliclosed source nokia binary21:53
Palimy open source code is here:
DocScrutinizer51Sicelo: if you're using 'root' rather than 'sudo gainroot', then you don't even have to search21:54
Sicelonice :)21:54
MrPinguPali, need that dumpatag programm need to be compiled?21:54
PaliMrPingu, yes21:54
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MrPinguThen you will have to wait some days, sorry21:54
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, and abot your hardware expertise - what do You think about concept of using LiIon inside N900's?21:56
Estel_I mean differences in voltage. It's small, no problem with it, I suppose?21:56
Estel_any practical effects on device's operations?21:56
DocScrutinizer51what else than LiIon would you want to use?21:56
Estel_I'm building 2x 18650's for aN900 battery21:56
vi__Estel_: LiION IS in n900...21:56
Estel_LiIon vs LiPo21:57
DocScrutinizer51meh, no difference21:57
Estel_little lower amx voltage21:57
Estel_and little lover down limit21:57
Estel_thats what I though, but I wondered if BMe should be confused by always less max vopltage than expected?21:57
Estel_just wnated to ensure it ;)21:57
DocScrutinizer51I still think BL-5J *is* LiIon21:58
DocScrutinizer51anyway chargers make no difference between the both21:58
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: I honestly hope you connect those 2 pcs 16450 in *parallel*, not in series ;-P21:59
DocScrutinizer51and I hope you are probing for their respective voltages to be identical before doing so21:59
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Estel_of course :p22:00
Estel_using same age batteries form same serries22:00
DocScrutinizer51the bq27k will freak out, but so what22:00
Estel_anyway, good joke about parallel and series :p22:00
DocScrutinizer51don't ask ;-D22:01
Estel_won't freak, i'll calibrate it to properly detect those 6000 mAh capacity22:01
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer51: you're killing all fun22:01
vi__bl-5j IS LiIon.22:01
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: I dunno if it even can go that far22:01
DocScrutinizer51err 622:01
DocScrutinizer51for sure it will need several learning cyclres for that22:02
Estel_many learning cycles :P22:02
Estel_vi_, bl-5j is LiPo22:03
DocScrutinizer51as adjustment of the capacity as learnt is limited to +-1//822:03
DocScrutinizer51Estel_: says who?22:03
DocScrutinizer51I seem to recall N900 product webpage mentioned LiIon battery, while N800 page said LiPo22:04
Estel_DocScrutinizer, all characteristics semm LiPo'ish22:05
Estel_not to mean what is written on it ;p22:06
DocScrutinizer51errr,  which ones?22:06
Estel_3.7 average voltage. AFAIk, LiIons have 3.622:06
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Estel_so, were it LiFe's?22:06
DocScrutinizer51depends on cell chemistry, but that's not related to LiPo vs LiIon22:07
Estel_well, even better, then22:07
Estel_6000 mah capacity is going to be overkill. Caliubrating bq2 for it too :p22:07
GeneralAntillesYou know, I haven't gotten any threats of violence over the internet in a while.22:08
RaimuLife getting boring?22:08
GeneralAntillesYeah, a little.22:09
GeneralAntillesThere were some good ones back in the day22:09
GeneralAntillesI should've archived them.22:09
DocScrutinizer51whatever, BL-5J writing says "LiIon", while on BP-4L they say "rechargeable Li-Polymer"22:10
GeneralAntillesThere was one guy on the forums who accused Texrat and me of being willing to go fight in Afghanistan for Nokia.22:11
Sicelo .. looks like vi__ and DocScrutinizer51 are right22:11
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RaimuGeneralAntilles: That... that makes no sense.22:13
GeneralAntillesYeah, I also thought so at the time.22:13
GeneralAntillesIt was a long rant, too.22:13
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, vi_ Sicelo, lol, i always though we're using LiPo's. You busted a myth! :P22:17
SiceloFUD, lol. j/k22:17
Estel_GeneralAntilles, now we're waiting until someone promises on mailing list, that he is going to fight in Afghanistan for nokia if we give him N950 ;)22:18
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GeneralAntillesAlready got one, thanks! :P22:18
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MrPingu At first I thought LiPo meant lithium-polonomium (was two years ago) :P22:26
MrPinguNuclear powered batteries ftw :)22:27
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DocScrutinizer51I booted the spare N810 which I just picked the BP-4L from, found it saying "battery almost empty" and decided to recharge. 3rd reboot now, out of nothing22:31
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DocScrutinizer51in <30min22:32
DocScrutinizer51there's definitely sth fishy with bme on diablo, with aged batteries22:32
DocScrutinizer51FSCK! another reboot22:33
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DocScrutinizer51feels like a slow bootloop :-/22:35
* DocScrutinizer51 suspects friggin RSS-reader that was terribly busy to scroll thru 2 years of dunnowhat, plus WLAN WPA22:38
DocScrutinizer51disabled both22:38
RaimuThat would make sense.22:38
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DocScrutinizer51well, no reboot since... 10min \o/22:45
DocScrutinizer51I'd think diablo missed a few RT-linux extensions22:46
DocScrutinizer51and since N810 charger circuitry been a really nasty exclusively sw-controlled abomination, that's no surprise it reboots when sth is a bit busy during device charging22:47
DocScrutinizer51plus I suspect wlan since long to be nasty22:48
vi__brb, going to watch iron sky.22:50
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befr0diron man22:58
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juozapashow to get or convert columbus (gps navigation toolkit) to gpx format ?23:20
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MrPinguPali, posted atags info on TMO ;)23:33
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Siceloyou're missing HW Revision MrPingu ;)23:35
MrPinguShould I edit, or can you remember from here? It's 2101 ;)23:36
MrPinguNo, I know why I haven't included them, they are at the end of dumpatag log ;)23:37
MrPinguUnder hw-build23:37
Siceloah, indeed ;)23:38
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Siceloi had already edited mine (qhubekela)23:39
MrPinguI edited mine too now, just in case23:39
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merlin1991ok added mine now :)23:47
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RaimuWow, a solution to our n900 low memory problems!
RaimuIt uses even the same engine, dubbed "Placebo", as many of n900's native tweaking apps!23:51
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MrPingusure! Speedpatch FINAL :D23:54
Raimu(Honestly though, some of those messages you get from clicking that big friendly button are hilarious.)23:55
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