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| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: yes | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| saltsa | + | 00:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in Neo Freerunner it was ~30mA IIRC | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | dark = lower usage on transleflective? | 00:17 |
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| Estel_ | can't be! | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | so high value? | 00:18 |
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| Estel_ | between white and black? | 00:18 |
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| Estel_ | I wonder if it's same for N900, going to check that now | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suspected it's been the data bus | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I = U / R | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ 3.3 / ( 50 / 4 ) | 00:20 |
| infobot | 0.264 | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ 4 * (1.8 / 1000) | 00:21 |
| infobot | 0.0072 | 00:21 |
| Estel_ | hm, no measureable change on N900 | 00:22 |
| Estel_ | it must be within normal fluctuation range = <10 mA | 00:22 |
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| Estel_ | ping X-Fade | 00:23 |
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| vi__ | wtf | 00:34 |
| vi__ | my KB LEDs have ceased to function | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 00:34 |
| vi__ | how can I test them? | 00:34 |
| vi__ | is there a KB led script? | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | first: stop mce | 00:35 |
| vi__ | can I enable R&D LED flashy mode... | 00:35 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: ok | 00:35 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: done | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2nd: find /sys -name brightness | 00:36 |
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| Estel_ | vi__, happened to me once, led indicator stop to work and kb light too | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3rd: echo 250 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1/brightness | 00:36 |
| Estel_ | do You happen to keep something under backover? | 00:36 |
| Estel_ | 2nd sim, sd card, money :P, whatever? | 00:37 |
| Sicelo | 0.o | 00:37 |
| Estel_ | Sicelo, it kwas my reaction to | 00:37 |
| vi__ | Estel_: ?? no | 00:37 |
| Estel_ | pressure on certain part od N900 (under backcover) makes led driver to, erm, sleep | 00:38 |
| Estel_ | when I kept 2nd sim card there, it wasn't working. I was thinking WTF and haven't foun issue case | 00:38 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: I do not have an lp5523 /sys entry | 00:38 |
| Estel_ | then, when 2nd card wasn't neededd and I took it out, it started to work | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | for led in /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb?/brightness; do echo 100 >$led; done | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA | 00:39 |
| Estel_ | vi__, same was here, no lp5523 | 00:39 |
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| Estel_ | even on backupmenu it haven't worked | 00:39 |
| vi__ | only a twl14030 | 00:39 |
| Estel_ | one of strangest thing I've ever seen on N900 | 00:39 |
| Sicelo | what surprises me is the keeping of stuff there :P | 00:39 |
| vi__ | Estel_: did you need to reboot? | 00:40 |
| Estel_ | :P I got mugen cover | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard the chip sometimes locks up - remove battery for some minutes | 00:40 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: there was some guy who keeped monies in his! | 00:40 |
| Estel_ | vi__, yea. But rebooting with someting between cover even reboots was for no use | 00:40 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: | 00:40 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: ok | 00:40 |
| Estel_ | even during turning N900 on and off it haven't worked | 00:40 |
| vi__ | brb | 00:40 |
| Estel_ | it was scary :P | 00:41 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, hardware wise, any idea why pressure above camera slider sensor could make it to "lock"? | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | fscked FPC | 00:42 |
| Estel_ | Sicelo, with mugen cover it was best place for 2nd sim | 00:42 |
| Estel_ | FPC? | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | flex plastic cable | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | flat plastic connector | 00:42 |
| Estel_ | I see | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexible printed circuit | 00:42 |
| Estel_ | :P | 00:42 |
| Estel_ | fuckin phone control | 00:42 |
| Estel_ | not talking about N900, obviously | 00:43 |
| Sicelo | btw, those with modem issues.. i wonder if they ever tried the other OSes to see if it still doesnamt work there (Nemo,MeeGo,Debian,Ubuntu, etc) | 00:43 |
| Estel_ | hm, but what secondary board fpc does have to do with leds driver... camera leds aren't connected there | 00:43 |
| Estel_ | (to driver) | 00:43 |
| Estel_ | nor it's on secondary board | 00:44 |
| Estel_ | mysteries :P | 00:44 |
| Estel_ | Sicelo, most of the time modem issue are due to breakage in balls between sim reader | 00:45 |
| Estel_ | sim slot | 00:45 |
| Estel_ | or smth like that. One guy "fixed" it with nail and hammer | 00:45 |
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| Estel_ | literally | 00:45 |
| user_____ | w00t, meh LEDs are back. | 00:45 |
| Estel_ | I suspect reflow would fix that | 00:45 |
| user_____ | thanks | 00:45 |
| Estel_ | no problem user vi ;) | 00:45 |
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| Estel_ | citizien kane | 00:45 |
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| Estel_ | vi___, those guy who keeps money under N900 cover do it on purpose | 00:46 |
| Estel_ | if You put ten pounds there at evening | 00:47 |
| Estel_ | You find 20 pounds at the morning! | 00:47 |
| vi___ | how do I disable rotation completly without having to use rotation lock applet? like stock n900. | 00:47 |
| vi___ | Estel_: n900 is that good? | 00:47 |
| Estel_ | but never put more, as You'll find used beer capsles instead | 00:47 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 00:47 |
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| vi___ | having tried portrait I can honestly say, I do not know what all the fuss is about. | 00:48 |
| Estel_ | vi___, check what rotation lock applet does and do it manually? | 00:48 |
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| Estel_ | hehe I got it enabled but never use on home | 00:48 |
| Estel_ | although, it doesn't hurt to have | 00:48 |
| Estel_ | well, I put icons in order etc... can remember if ever used it | 00:49 |
| vi___ | Estel_: MOAR FFETURES==MOAR BETTER | 00:49 |
| Sicelo | i think you can find that in ~jr-tools | 00:49 |
| Estel_ | well, for people using it one-handedly, writting on screen via vkb without sliding keyb out... | 00:49 |
| Estel_ | it's probably useful | 00:49 |
| vi___ | pfft, what do they think this is? | 00:50 |
| vi___ | ...a phone? | 00:50 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 00:50 |
| Estel_ | btw vi, using ereswap already? | 00:50 |
| vi___ | so are nokia really giving away a new pile of n950s? | 00:51 |
| Estel_ | yea | 00:51 |
| vi___ | Estel_: no. | 00:51 |
| vi___ | Estel_: I literally have not had time | 00:51 |
| Estel_ | 40 N9 60 N900's | 00:51 |
| * Estel_ nods | 00:51 | |
| Estel_ | fu | 00:51 |
| Estel_ | 60 N9 | 00:51 |
| Estel_ | s/N900's/N9's/ | 00:52 |
| Estel_ | fu again | 00:52 |
| Estel_ | 40 N950's and 60 N9's | 00:52 |
| Estel_ | thats what I mean | 00:52 |
| vi___ | Estel_: I imagine I will download the deb, steal the main script then just run it as a cronjob every ~oouple of hours. | 00:52 |
| Estel_ | vi, bad idea | 00:53 |
| Estel_ | could do reswap while You're on heavy usage | 00:53 |
| Estel_ | heavy ram or heavy CPU or both | 00:53 |
| vi___ | Estel_: so are the n950s returned by developers or are they just been found? | 00:53 |
| Estel_ | = lock Your phone for 30 minutes or crash some apps without warning or reboot phone and corrupt fs | 00:53 |
| Estel_ | "just found" | 00:53 |
| Estel_ | vi=#-#- | 00:54 |
| vi___ | Estel_: well of course there will be some checking to tell if the screen is off and phone is locked etc. | 00:54 |
| Estel_ | #*'" | 00:54 |
| Estel_ | damn my alt_gr just stuck | 00:54 |
| Estel_ | for a while | 00:54 |
| Estel_ | software only | 00:54 |
| vi___ | harhar | 00:54 |
| Estel_ | scarredk me that backspace stopped working | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~/bin# cat no-portrait-gconfkey | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | #!/bin/sh | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false | 00:55 |
| Estel_ | vi___, I'm working on a way that it will inform user about swap usage automagically | 00:55 |
| vi___ | Estel_: cool | 00:55 |
| vi___ | Estel_: not my cup of tea thpugh. | 00:55 |
| Estel_ | usually, You won't hit swap fragmentation with device locked and screen off | 00:56 |
| Estel_ | and when You want to use it You'll be irritatedd when You hit fragm. and do it manually anyway | 00:56 |
| Estel_ | so no much job for cron esxept for wasting cycles for checking | 00:56 |
| Estel_ | btw freemangordon is checking if it's possible to get rid of this problem all-together | 00:57 |
| Estel_ | by altering how kernel allocate swap on free fragments | 00:57 |
| Estel_ | although I doubt 100% effective solution can be found on flash medium | 00:58 |
| vi___ | unless it awakens, sees swap useage is >50% then defrags | 00:58 |
| vi___ | Estel_: marvellous, that guy is a prodige. | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | porridge | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 00:59 |
| Estel_ | vi, quite a solution | 00:59 |
| vi___ | prodigy? | 00:59 |
| Estel_ | yea, but he's worried a little, that no more kernel devs than he and pali | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 00:59 |
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| Estel_ | I would also *love* to se another talented dev working on kp | 01:00 |
| vi___ | Estel_: thats because there are no more kernel devs than just them | 01:00 |
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| Estel_ | s/se/see/ | 01:00 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: I would also *love* to see another talented dev working on kp | 01:00 |
| vi___ | Estel_: it is a 2 man show and they are a hard act to follow. | 01:00 |
| Estel_ | :) | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a quite autistic act | 01:00 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, wtf? | 01:01 |
| vi___ | DocScrutinizer: >:( | 01:01 |
| Sc0rpius | what's kp? | 01:02 |
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| merlin1991 | kernel-power | 01:02 |
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| Sc0rpius | oh ok | 01:03 |
| Sc0rpius | I really like my stock kernel :) | 01:03 |
| Estel_ | You shouldn't ;) | 01:03 |
| vi___ | kp=kangaroo penis. | 01:03 |
| Estel_ | it's bugged and lack basic things | 01:03 |
| Sc0rpius | why not? overclocking is bad for your health | 01:03 |
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| Sc0rpius | like what? | 01:03 |
| Estel_ | I don't talk about oc this time | 01:03 |
| HRH_H_Crab | no ipv6 in the stock kernel | 01:03 |
| Sc0rpius | I've been using it for years with no probs | 01:03 |
| vi___ | Sc0rpius: so is bacon | 01:03 |
| Estel_ | no ext4 | 01:03 |
| Sc0rpius | there's no IPv6 around me | 01:03 |
| Sc0rpius | there's ext3. | 01:04 |
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| Raimu | o_O | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, that's geting funny now, debating which kernel has more flaws and bugs, stock or power | 01:04 |
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| Raimu | Kangaroo... penis. | 01:04 |
| Estel_ | ext3 is worse ;) | 01:04 |
| vi___ | Sc0rpius: and drugs | 01:04 |
| Raimu | And drugs. | 01:04 |
| Raimu | Good night. :D | 01:04 |
| Estel_ | no crypt modules for truecrypt | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | what's a good advantage of an ext4 fs on a phone? | 01:04 |
| Estel_ | no vdd=1 powersaving | 01:04 |
| Estel_ | tuneability | 01:05 |
| vi___ | Sc0rpius: it is faster | 01:05 |
| Estel_ | speed | 01:05 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: which regressions are there actually in the power kernel? the only one I noticed was broken reboot, though that is fixed with the latest version | 01:05 |
| Estel_ | better journal | 01:05 |
| vi___ | ahem... | 01:05 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, is well known kp negatron :D | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't know why in my mind everything you said translate to less battery | 01:05 |
| vi___ | ...skype audio is broken | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | and battery is the most precious value in a phone | 01:05 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, bullshitl;) | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: suuure | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | BS | 01:05 |
| vi___ | Sc0rpius: lol wut | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | if you tell me | 01:06 |
| Estel_ | fixed SR values = 1/3 more battery | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | "upgrade to kernel-power and your battety will last a week in 3G" | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | then we're talking | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | "battery" | 01:06 |
| vi___ | Sc0rpius: not quite | 01:06 |
| Estel_ | buy dual scud from me and it will ;) | 01:06 |
| vi___ | Sc0rpius: however smart reflex has improved battery shitloads | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: I'm a patch-oile'o'crap hater, and a git fan though I dunno much about it | 01:06 |
| vi___ | (vdd1) | 01:06 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, I'm using 3000 mAh battery | 01:07 |
| * Sicelo has KP for the sole purpose of using hostmode | 01:07 | |
| Estel_ | and will use 6000 mAh soon | 01:07 |
| vi___ | Estel_: ha, you have more battery than n900? | 01:07 |
| Sc0rpius | I think I'm gonna install Nemo soon | 01:07 |
| Estel_ | honestly, it's hard to mention all kp benefits | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: the you found the reason why Estel_ 's assumption regarding me and KP was terribly off | 01:07 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, nemo won't be usable for months or years | 01:07 |
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| Sc0rpius | by the way in another topic I installed Lubuntu in a Netbook and that's amazing. It even has Office suite and everything and it's just 3 GB on the HDD | 01:08 |
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| Sc0rpius | can't I make a call with current Nemo? | 01:08 |
| Sicelo | yeah DocScrutinizer. i was about to mention that to him :P | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, using stock kernel is like sitting on pr 1.0 or 1.1 | 01:08 |
| vi___ | haters gonna hate=docsrutinisers gonna be | 01:08 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, you can install lubuntu on N900 | 01:08 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't agree. | 01:08 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah but it will stop being a phone | 01:09 |
| Sc0rpius | and I want a phone | 01:09 |
| Sc0rpius | it's my main phone if I can't make a call is useless | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, why You've installedd pr1.3? | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | just because Nokika released it | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | after all, it's bugfixes | 01:09 |
| Sc0rpius | well I'm in PR 1.3 + CSSU | 01:09 |
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| Estel_ | kp too | 01:09 |
| vi___ | gtg | 01:09 |
| vi___ | bb | 01:09 |
| Estel_ | why, You havent had phone on pr 1.1? | 01:09 |
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| Estel_ | see ya Vvi | 01:09 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't remember | 01:09 |
| * merlin1991 is about to bid on n900 on ebay | 01:09 | |
| merlin1991 | one can never have enough xD | 01:09 |
| merlin1991 | or rather I'm tired of my cssu-testing device burning its battery in 10 hrs | 01:09 |
| Sc0rpius | I think my phone came with 1.2 pre-installed when I bought it | 01:10 |
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| Estel_ | so why 1.3 Sc0rpius | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | what I notoriously hate though are patches introduced to kernel by fools who got no clue, like e.g. that bq27200.ko and the I2C locking fuckup it brought with it | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | or not downgraded, 1.1 uses less space ;) | 01:10 |
| Sicelo | Estel_: he actually meant on ubuntu.. that he wont' have a phone | 01:10 |
| Sc0rpius | DocScrutinizer, but you still use kernel-power nonetheless, right? | 01:10 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, bq i2c id dedcade old thing | 01:10 |
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| Sc0rpius | oh yeah if I install Lubuntu on my N900 it stops being a phone, that's what I meant. | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | fixed when dinosaurs walked on earth | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | bwahaha | 01:11 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, now every path must be first submitted on tmo thread and explained | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | if those dinosaurs hadn't kicke3d some asses, it wasn't fixed til now yet | 01:11 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 01:11 |
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| Estel_ | probably because it wouldn't hurt anyone until sun becomes supernova (although I agree it was wrong) | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh yeah tmo, home of the *real* kernel experts | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | btw it was patch from titan's times | 01:12 |
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| Sc0rpius | DocScrutinizer is so filled of hate today :) | 01:12 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, maintainers read patches | 01:13 |
| Sc0rpius | so, can I make a call with current Nemo? | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | during Pali and freeman times every patch is reviewed, that's why luke-jr thing was kickedd out | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | Sc0rpius, would love to answer, althoughm no idea | 01:13 |
| Sicelo | what luke-jr thing? | 01:13 |
| Estel_ | there was some patch enabling low frequency cutoff via smth | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | but, it would also affect headphones | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | gdenerally, it would be nice thing to have, despite fact that we have speaker's protection mechanism already | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how T F is that kernel now? | 01:14 |
| Sc0rpius | well there's only one way to know | 01:14 |
| Estel_ | but in gstreamer pulseaudio or somewhere | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | but his kernel patch did it in kernel | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | if code would be better and adapt itself to situtionp, it would be ok | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, we have some hw thing | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | controllable by kernel | 01:15 |
| Sicelo | Sc0rpius: report back, please :) | 01:15 |
| Estel_ | that was meant to do filtefring | 01:15 |
| * Sc0rpius is installing U-Boot, first step of the installation | 01:15 | |
| Estel_ | anyway, probldem was that luke-jr just used some code | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | and wouldn't be able to maintain it | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw we got a nice gifted guy named HNT or sth like that, who implemented that stuff into ALSA like 18 months ago | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | in case of bugs etc | 01:16 |
| Estel_ | so patch was kicked out in a second | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | with a lot of help from my side | 01:17 |
| Estel_ | I just mean that whinning about quality of patches in KP is wrong since maaany months | 01:17 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, where is his patch? | 01:17 |
| Estel_ | implemented anywhere? | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | just for the record: | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~/bin# uname -a | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux | 01:19 |
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| Estel_ | well, so it's not iron anymore ;) | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | I would rather say mercurium | 01:21 |
| Estel_ | or graphit | 01:22 |
| Estel_ | :P | 01:22 |
| Estel_ | as much as I would be afraid of using 2.6.28 on desktop due to kernel bugs, I would be afraid of using it on N900 without all KP patches, making it no longer 2.6.28 in reality (ammount of upstream patches) | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | at least, I would not call it "more stable" than patched counterpart | 01:23 |
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| Estel_ | ping X-Fade | 01:25 |
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| Estel_ | merlin1991, I lost refference to wiki article, where it was explained with details how to properly encode icon for debian/control file | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | 8 know it's base64, but exact command and tool was given there | 02:17 |
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| Estel_ | do You remember proper way of doing so? I can't find this document | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | and wiki got plentora of less or more verbose docs on packaging | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | (none for now got detailed info on icon) | 02:17 |
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| Estel_ | nvm, found it finally | 02:19 |
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| Sc0rpius | we,ll I'm booting Nemo | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | nice | 02:50 |
| Sc0rpius | I can make a call | 02:51 |
| Sc0rpius | but it's funny, I call my voicemail and it says the password is incorrect | 02:51 |
| Estel_ | well, I blame voicemail | 02:54 |
| Sc0rpius | I pressed the numbers very slowly and it worked | 02:54 |
| Sc0rpius | the portrait virtual keyboard works VERY well | 02:54 |
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| Sc0rpius | I can't find an SMS app :( | 02:55 |
| Estel_ | virtual leyboard on N900 sounds almost like an regression :P | 02:56 |
| Estel_ | a/leyboard/keyboard/ | 02:56 |
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| Sc0rpius | I wonder how am I supposed to zoom in Nemo with an N900 if it's not multitouch :) | 03:11 |
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| luke-jr | Estel_: shrug, I'd rather miss some freqs in headphone, than my N900 speakers be destroyed | 04:03 |
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| Sicelo | Scorcerer: \m/ | 08:44 |
| Sicelo | meh, | 08:44 |
| Sicelo | tab- fail, i meant Sc0rpius | 08:44 |
| Sicelo | one thing Sc0rpius, how is power usage/management? | 08:45 |
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| X-Fade | Maemo Council election results: http://maemo.org/vote/results.php?election_id=20 | 12:50 |
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| teotwaki | thanks X-Fade | 12:52 |
| teotwaki | how many times has SD69 been on the council now/ | 12:52 |
| teotwaki | ? | 12:52 |
| chem|st | Estel_: grats | 12:52 |
| teotwaki | Estel_: aye, congrats | 12:52 |
| chem|st | teotwaki: with his attituted I am wondering why | 12:53 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: thanks | 13:02 |
| Jaffa | teotwaki: This is his third term. | 13:02 |
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| Jaffa | He talks a lot. Does nothing. And bemoans the fact he's expected to do other things | 13:02 |
| teotwaki | Jaffa: so I was correct in assuming he was indeed the one I saw you and GA talk about on twitter some weeks ago? | 13:03 |
| Jaffa | teotwaki: Yup | 13:03 |
| Sicelo | wow! | 13:05 |
| Jaffa | teotwaki: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1207445&postcount=355 is quite fun | 13:06 |
| Jaffa | teotwaki: Despite being the only active member on the previous council, he refused to accept he was the chair. | 13:06 |
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| Jaffa | Estel_: congratulations | 13:14 |
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| chem|st | Estel_: please do not hesitate to moan about council members doing nothing, the other way round is welcome too (moan about what they do^^) | 13:38 |
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| Estel_ | X-Fade, thanks for announcing election results | 14:25 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, teotwaki, Jaffa, thank You all | 14:25 |
| Estel_ | I would like to personally thank every participant - mostly, the Community voting, then candidates running and finally, elected Councilors | 14:26 |
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| Estel_ | hi freemangordon | 14:26 |
| freemangordon | Estel_, hi, congrats | 14:26 |
| Estel_ | Jaffa, despite Your view on SD69 - which you're fully entitled to have - he got 2nd results in voting, so it seems that whole Community doesn't share your view. | 14:27 |
| Estel_ | Thanks a lot, freemangordon | 14:27 |
| Estel_ | You just missed my personal thanks to You ;) (and everyone voting in election) | 14:27 |
| Estel_ | s/and/as/ | 14:27 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: You just missed my personal thanks to You ;) (as everyone voting in election) | 14:27 |
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| freemangordon | damn stupid sppedfan her, my PC was in boot loop :) | 14:27 |
| freemangordon | *speedfan | 14:27 |
| Estel_ | :) | 14:27 |
| freemangordon | maybe it is time to get rid of that windoze finally | 14:28 |
| Estel_ | anyway, election results are here, so we can start work on full throotle | 14:28 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, same thoughts here ;) | 14:28 |
| teotwaki | Estel_: get a speelcheek, the red penis you're friend. | 14:29 |
| Estel_ | teotwaki, wtf? i'mafraid I don't get You fully ;) | 14:30 |
| teotwaki | Estel_: get a spellchecker, the red pen is your friend. | 14:30 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 14:30 |
| teotwaki | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_rwB5_3PQc | 14:30 |
| teotwaki | Estel_: ^ | 14:30 |
| Estel_ | speelcheek - hoever it looks and jaw - sounds better than red penis. It think it concludes this part of discussion ;) | 14:30 |
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| Estel_ | DocS, ping | 14:33 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping | 14:33 |
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| cr-ver | accepted: my n900 is dead | 16:43 |
| cr-ver | thanks for your tips | 16:43 |
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| Estel_ | Woody14619, ping | 17:03 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | que? | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aaah I see, a supposedly dead cheap to buy N900 | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-P | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: lrn2suggest syslog | 17:35 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, what? | 17:37 |
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| chem|st | anyone an idea why sharing-plugin-facebook stopped working? | 17:42 |
| spark666 | chem|st: doesnt work here to | 17:43 |
| chem|st | spark666: tested on 2 devices allready | 17:44 |
| chem|st | spark666: but thanks | 17:44 |
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| chem|st | sharing-service-facebook is nokia... andre__ is there anything we can do about that? | 17:49 |
| andre__ | that it is Nokia? :) | 17:49 |
| andre__ | I don't think so | 17:49 |
| andre__ | but yeah, seems to be an issue. also reported in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12621 | 17:50 |
| povbot | Bug 12621: The Facebook widget does not work | 17:50 |
| andre__ | and I guess Flickr sharing will also break in two months when they completely switch to OAuth | 17:51 |
| andre__ | just my guess though | 17:51 |
| chem|st | andre__: they switch auth ? | 17:52 |
| spark666 | the only option its that someone make a new option for sharing like peterovich was | 17:52 |
| spark666 | for bluetooth in pr1.2 | 17:52 |
| chem|st | someone resamnble a sharingplugin yeah | 17:53 |
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| andre__ | chem|st, http://code.flickr.com/blog/2012/01/13/farewell-flickrauth/ | 17:55 |
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| chem|st | andre__: got nokia care in chat now, as the n900 is still sold as new and there were commercials with the facebook app they are required to fullfill this in europe | 18:03 |
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| ShadowJK | i didn't know n900 was still sold anywhere | 18:25 |
| chem|st | well nokia does not sell it anymore and I guess with removing n900 device website they are save regarding any sueing | 18:28 |
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| Estel_ | gm, strange | 18:51 |
| Estel_ | something is eating my idle power. I see that device without any connection, idle, is using ~50 mA, instead of usual 7-9 | 18:51 |
| Estel_ | what is more strange, after rebootr, for few hours, idle usage is normal | 18:52 |
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| Estel_ | and then, without using any application (device left overnight) it start to be minimum of 50 mA | 18:52 |
| Estel_ | ho ever, while-in-use pwoer usage is normal | 18:52 |
| Estel_ | WTF? | 18:52 |
| Estel_ | any good way to check it? I suspect something is keeping MPU of out sleep state, but how to check what? TOP doesn't show anything unusual | 18:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ho ever? | 18:54 |
| Estel_ | hoever I would be glad if You could stop ignoring private IRc messages from me ;) | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | poowertop | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | with a sample time of 30 minutes | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | eh? | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meh | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | afk | 18:56 |
| Estel_ | exactly, and it shpows that CPU doesn't sleep as it should | 18:57 |
| Estel_ | in idle | 18:57 |
| Estel_ | but, how to check what is causing it? | 18:57 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, pong | 18:58 |
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| ioan | hi. how well does android work on n900? | 19:44 |
| spark666 | ioan: are you from ro?:P | 19:44 |
| ioan | yes | 19:44 |
| spark666 | me 2 :D | 19:44 |
| ioan | well, I'm in US right now, dar sunt roman ;-) | 19:45 |
| spark666 | bine de tine ca ai scapat de ro :P | 19:45 |
| spark666 | lets talk in eng enyway before they kick us off :)) | 19:45 |
| spark666 | and related to your question,android works quite well afaik,only that few features are missing | 19:46 |
| ioan | like what? what features are missing? | 19:46 |
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| spark666 | i think phone feature... | 19:47 |
| spark666 | for phone calls | 19:47 |
| ioan | I got an android phone for my wife last night, and I'm quite impressed with it... | 19:47 |
| ioan | haha | 19:47 |
| spark666 | yes i owned one to in the past,a htc desire,they are nice | 19:48 |
| ioan | so the phone will become an n850 with android :-) | 19:48 |
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| spark666 | guess so..but maybe im wrong | 19:48 |
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| spark666 | and the camera function i guess it doesnt work either :( | 19:49 |
| ioan | gps? | 19:49 |
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| spark666 | take a look here >> http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?board=6.0 | 19:50 |
| spark666 | i think you can find some of your answers there | 19:51 |
| ioan | ok, thanks | 19:51 |
| spark666 | yw :) | 19:51 |
| spark666 | catch you guys later im going to take dinner :) | 19:52 |
| ioan | pofta mare! | 19:53 |
| spark666 | hehe,mersi :D | 19:53 |
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| ioan | see ya all later | 19:56 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping?... | 19:58 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping-pong-ping-pung? | 20:05 |
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| Estel_ | X-Fade, ping | 20:13 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, ping-pang-pung-pong-peng? | 20:14 |
| * Estel_ bombards DocScrutinizer with tons of ping-pong balls | 20:14 | |
| Estel_ | ~ping DocScrutinizer | 20:15 |
| infobot | pong DocScrutinizer | 20:15 |
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| Estel_ | X-Fade, ping | 20:27 |
| Estel_ | anyone know qgil's nick on IRC? | 20:28 |
| spark666 | lol:P | 20:30 |
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| hiemanshu | Estel_: IIRC its quimgil or qgil | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | thanks a lot | 20:36 |
| Estel_ | none seems to be present :( | 20:37 |
| hiemanshu | just ask him over twitter? | 20:37 |
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| Estel_ | I don't user twitter, honestly | 20:42 |
| Estel_ | but thanks for suggestion | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen qgil | 21:04 |
| infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 18m ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Estel_: pong | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, see private IRC message | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | (query) | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry there is none | 21:07 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer51: irc spam filters? :D | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nick | 21:08 |
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| Estel_ | hm | 21:09 |
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| Estel_ | and now? | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | for some reasons, /query DocScrutinizer doesn't workj for You, and work with everyone else | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | I've tried again, any response? | 21:10 |
| merlin1991 | Estel_: notice the 51 on his nick? ;) | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | oh | 21:10 |
| merlin1991 | so I'd suggest you /query DocScrutinizer51 | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | sorry, my fault | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | of course | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | yea, i'm dumbie. Thanks a lot | 21:10 |
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| Estel_ | hm, doesn't seem to work either or hes away | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | battery empty, sorry | 21:12 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer51, maybe now? | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | ~seen quimgil | 21:19 |
| infobot | quimgil <c0647829@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.41> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 433d 19h 15m 48s ago, saying: 'lbt: now go to sleep only to find out next morning in Engadget that 'a new "fremantle" device3 is in the plans' etc etc ;)'. | 21:19 |
| FIQ | a while ago | 21:22 |
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| Estel_ | yea... | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | Jaffa, ping | 21:24 |
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| MohammadAG | Estel_, he uses the nick qgil now | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | MohammadAG, I know, but | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | ~seen qgil | 21:35 |
| infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 49m 23s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | just a while ago ;) | 21:36 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen qgil_ | 21:36 |
| infobot | qgil_ <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 279d 21h 54m 34s ago, saying: 'still, if the news are confirmed the real news will be what HP does next'. | 21:36 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen QGil | 21:36 |
| infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 239d 19h 49m 42s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | anyway, he tried to use webchat.freenode.net, so it's pointless, I'll catch him via mail | 21:36 |
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| Woody14619 | I used webchat just a couple weeks ago and it worked fine. :) | 21:42 |
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| MohammadAG | ~seen javispedro | 21:50 |
| infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 3h 32m 12s ago, saying: 'that'd make for interesting performance counters'. | 21:50 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, DocScrutinizer51, ping | 22:13 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer112, ping | 22:14 |
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| Sicelo | Sc0rpius: what's new on Nemo? | 22:18 |
| Sicelo | Estel_: congrats on election. :) | 22:18 |
| Sicelo | did you finally figure out what your power hog is? | 22:19 |
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| Estel_ | Sicelo, thanks a lot :) | 22:25 |
| Estel_ | still not | 22:25 |
| Estel_ | will need to ask someone more accustomed to powertop (vi?) | 22:26 |
| Sicelo | paste it ... there's others who understand it tooo :P | 22:26 |
| Estel_ | I understand it, just don't know wtf hogs it. But I'll surely hear Your opinion about it | 22:28 |
| Estel_ | if You know wtf, I'll be very thankful | 22:28 |
| Estel_ | gimme minute, will do fresh test, need to close connections | 22:28 |
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| Estel_ | Sicelo, or anyone who would like help with tracking down the bugger: | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?442cb300fdfd5acb#/bTbfxspbV/9ZBYjXxp48/AEsGUSvhhW5qYOMi6Npn0= | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | C1 state all the time... | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | may syslogd be the bugger? | 22:39 |
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| Sicelo | O.o | 22:39 |
| Sicelo | why is xbindkeys so busy? | 22:39 |
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| Estel_ | Sicelo, no idea? | 22:44 |
| Estel_ | I'm using it for ages | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | never been problem | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | it's easy debian's xbindkeys | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | why it got mad lately, ffs | 22:45 |
| Sicelo | looks to me like that's where your problem is | 22:46 |
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| Sicelo | i guess i'll soon lose telephony functions on my N900 :\ | 22:49 |
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| Sicelo | when i change from 3G to 2G and vice versa, i find that i end up with no signal at all, and power usage goes high. a reboot fixes things | 22:51 |
| Estel_ | hm | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | try solution with hammer | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | or sell it and buy N900's from me as per tmo:P | 22:53 |
| Estel_ | I sell them so cheap, that You'll probably profit in ,process | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, via powertop logs, do You have idea wtf is that? is it xbindkeys fault and why it went mad sudden pf nothing? | 22:54 |
| Estel_ | I never had problems with it | 22:54 |
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| Sicelo | Estel_: i'm too far, lol. Africa | 22:55 |
| Estel_ | I send everywshere except, probably, noth korea :P | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: >>Collecting data for 30 seconds<< forget it | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | ? | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | 30 minutes, nit 30s | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | ok, no problem | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | but even for 30 sec xbindkeys should sleep | 22:56 |
| Sicelo | see who owns PID 2025 | 22:56 |
| merlin1991 | wait estel, sellin n900s on tmo | 22:56 |
| merlin1991 | linkedylinklink | 22:56 |
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| Estel_ | merlin1991, sure thing wait a second | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | erm | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | n88n8n8 | 22:57 |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | Sicelo, could You give him link, I'm on 10 kbps connection again | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | and tmo will load for ages | 22:57 |
| Estel_ | centuries | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | WUT? | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 for sale? | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | pid 2025? cant find it, how should IZ check it properly? | 22:58 |
| Estel_ | not only N900 | 22:59 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer I called dibs! | 22:59 |
| Sicelo | merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84174 | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | N900's in ideal condition with reinforced usb port | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | english keyboard | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2025 | 299 | xbindkeys | do_nanosleep (hrtimer_wakeup) | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | for 180 euros | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | ah I see | 22:59 |
| Estel_ | I had problems with selling them for 2 weeks, but now they're gone. Although, I may come with more if someone is decided | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF PK | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | forgetit | 23:00 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, any idea why xbindkeys got apeshi? | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | flash proper kernel | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Frequency | Ratio | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1150 MHz | nan% | | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | bullshit | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | I'm on 900 mhz | 23:01 |
| merlin1991 | damn, sold out | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | powertop fakes it | 23:01 |
| merlin1991 | and I had my hopes up | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | merlin1991, not entirely | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | I can arrange another one for You | 23:01 |
| Sicelo | yeah, PK always shows 1150MHz there | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | Ialready got one person on waiting list :P | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's one of the points why I consider PK non-compatible and introducing regressions | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | merlin1991, it will be on same price or similar one (no more than 200 euro + shipping) | 23:02 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, what is regression here? | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | I don't care what powertop shows about frequency, I'm interested in what's eating my battery | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously powertop's inability to cope with PK's messed up cpufreq listing | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: then fix powertop | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | I see, but C* states are important for us | 23:04 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: it is not on powertop to cope with PK's fsckedup lisings! | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | it should sleep on C4not C1 | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: all my notion | 23:04 |
| chem|st | :) | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | well, maybe stock kernel used fckd listing | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | and maemo powertop got adjusted to that | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | PK *is* *not* compatible | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | now kp got fixed listing and powertop is not compatible | 23:05 |
| chem|st | Estel_: it is std powertop from debian guess who fsckedup... | 23:05 |
| Sicelo | hmm :\ | 23:05 |
| Estel_ | seriously, I have in ass what powertop thing about frequency | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: it's not | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, why sure it wasn't adjusted? | 23:06 |
| chem|st | the first one was the bare arm build | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | if it's kp fault, lets contact freemangordon. F it's powertop fault, lets fix it. | 23:06 |
| Estel_ | no need for whinning about compatibility | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | powertop is closed source AFAIK | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | but thnd PK has to conformat doesn't change the basic rule that maemo kernel is simply always "right" a | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | that* | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, cant agree | 23:07 |
| Estel_ | meritocratic approach doesn't allow us to say that stock is right on doing things wrong | 23:07 |
| * Sicelo leaves to reboot his N900 .. this modem thing makes me sick | 23:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer | but that doesn't change the principle that maemo kernel is ruling and PK has to follow (this time without touchpad messing up stuff) | 23:07 |
| chem|st | Sicelo: modem turning off? | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | seriously, I think otherwise | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | at least when it comes to things that can be fixed | 23:08 |
| chem|st | Sicelo: most of the time ->flightmode->normal fixes it for me | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | i.e. no one say it's ok to change things and makew bme go apeshit | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | but powertop? | 23:08 |
| Estel_ | if it's foss, it can be fixed | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: if maemo kernel had a MMOONNSSTTEERR bug and 15 apps rely on it, I give a stinking warm fart about PK fixing that bug | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | if it's closed, it's its problem as its not essential like bme | 23:09 |
| Sicelo | chem|st: when i change modes (3G/2G), i end up with no signal at all, and high battery consumption. Offline/Online doesn't help me. i have a (bad) feeling that i'll soon lose telephony completely | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | hm | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | hm | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | it depends | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it doesn't | 23:09 |
| Estel_ | if those 15 aps are foss and rely on monster bug | 23:09 |
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| Estel_ | then it's time to fix both bug and 15 apps | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | if they're closed source and essential (see bme) then it's valid | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | find a way to emulate the MONSTER bug in PK for those apps that need it, or you're wrong | 23:10 |
| chem|st | Sicelo: ouch | 23:10 |
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| Sicelo | a reboot fixes things | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | if they're closed and esential - yes, true | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | if open or closed and non esential, well... | 23:10 |
| chem|st | Sicelo: stay on 2g? :) | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | non essential - I mean, lets say, blessN900 | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | closed source extras | 23:11 |
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| Estel_ | thats why I think we need upstream CSSU with community kernel bundled in and -testing -devel variants | 23:11 |
| Sicelo | yeah chem|st :P .. only problem is that sometimes 2G stops working here (peak hours) .. that's when i switch to 3G | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | we don't want chaos when programs are written to follow bugs in distribution A | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | and doesnt work in B and C | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | especially, that we have low dev resources | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | and especially kp devs | 23:12 |
| Estel_ | now I'll be asshat - I would use a minute of freemangordon's or Pali time to do 2 kernels, for "stock" fans (onlhy bugfixes) and proper kernel-power | 23:13 |
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| Estel_ | if someone is so conservative and want stock, he/she can prepare kp-lite rollouts | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | and manage it | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | s/manage/maintain/ | 23:14 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: and maintain it | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody, I repeat NOBODY is allowed to "fix" something in a way that creates more trouble than good. And nobody has the right to order app devels to rework their lib/whatever API, just because you think the lib need an better incompatible API. It's *YOU* who's doing mist evil then, not the original bug you intend to fix | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | but never demand kp/CSSU devs to do so | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | most* | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | nobody is allowed to order anything anyone | 23:14 |
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| Estel_ | but sometimes, people just want to | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | people want to re-work their programs to use KP or CSSU new possibilities | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | it's all about volounteering | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | kp is done by volounteers | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | cssu too. | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | if someone doesn't like feature in KP or CSSU - nice, it's FOSS | 23:16 |
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| Estel_ | volounteer time and make a version that suit You, maybe You'll get followers | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | or not. | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it's all about competence and inspiration to find a way for better alternatives to allow old stuff to co-exist | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | when feasible, sure thing | 23:16 |
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| Estel_ | but we need to use our scarce resources in feasible way | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | when not, you're the one who's screwed | 23:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not I and my app that needs that old API | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | well, if we have 2 kernel devs | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | I preffer them doing what they preffer, i.e. properly working things | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's nonsense | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | not rolling out version with old bugs to make it compatible with fckd api | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | or emulation of bug | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I won't let anybody hijack maemo | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | asshat argument here - after all, there is always stock :P | 23:18 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, do you know why powertop spits bullshit when run under KP? | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | people choose via their repos downloads | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | no hijacking. | 23:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: guess! | 23:18 |
| freemangordon | I can bet it is hardcoded for up to 600 MHz | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | :) | 23:19 |
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| Estel_ | it splits up 1150 mhz no matter what | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: what does this tell us? there's not supposed to be anything >600MHz | 23:19 |
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| freemangordon | so the proper "BUGFIX" will be to limit PK frequency to 600. And THAT is nonsense | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | anyway, if someone will make awesome project and call it omeam, everyone or majority will use it | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | and program accordingly | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | is it hijack? no, free choice | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: that's idiotic bullshit alternative | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, You can't force peoplem to stick with what You feel is right | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly you can do better than that, I know you well enough by now | 23:20 |
| Estel_ | after all, people will code and use whatever they want, no natter if You call it hijacking or not. or compatible ;) | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, either that, or even more insane method - lie about actual frequency range | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | read that http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html and either get what I meant, or wave as I'm leaving now anyway | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | just to make powertop(and you) happy. | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: whom are YOU going to make happy? | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | after all, sometimes You just need to choose lesser evil, to not allow bigger one, sneaking in the dark, to catch You. | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | BUHAHA that was dark! ;) | 23:23 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, NFC, I can just hope | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, every kp user? | 23:23 |
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| freemangordon | that someone will fin a value in what me (and others) are doing | 23:23 |
| freemangordon | *find | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | after all, people want upstream bugfixes and features, not emulating old bugs | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't mind KP users | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | they can do whatever they like | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | to make powertop or other things happy | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | but KP *IS* *NOT* *COMPATIBLE* | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | and thus never will go into CSSU like that | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | well, whatever they like? so, they can say stock is not compatible and obsolete ;) | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | hm | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, it is powertop not compatible, not KP | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | do You realize that CSSU will be whatever devs decide to... | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | and no one is entitled to block it? | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it will be what maintainers decide. For now I'm one of three | 23:25 |
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| Estel_ | well, in case of any unnecessary conflict | 23:25 |
| Estel_ | it will just get forked | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're free to fork - actually I appreciate you to do that | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | with the fork becoming upstream, probably | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | it's better to find compromise | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | than sticking to ideology just for sake of it | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | and by "fork" i mean it in "" | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | if someone will try to obstruct development for misty and hardly valid reasons... | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's not ideology, that's common sense for all those users that are supposed to migrate from stock nokia repos to cssu | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | it's not arbitrary OTA | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you want ACME bleeding edge, YOU fork | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | it's not kp fault that our version of powertop is screwed | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ktnxby | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | it's not kp fault that our version of powertop is screwed | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | it's just naming convention. | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | in factp, with all due respect | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | don't take it as hostile | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | devs doing things > maintainers | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's bullshit, and I'm talking as a user here | 23:29 |
| Estel_ | with OpenOffice, maintainers denied to do things *right* way for hardly reasonable reasons | 23:29 |
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| Estel_ | it resulted in "forking" into libre office and open office dissapearing from upstream in eye's blink | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | after all, devs choose by coding, and users by installing | 23:30 |
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| Estel_ | oracle as maintainer had nothing to say about it | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991 and me installed cssu-extras for you, if you still need to fork, do it. I don't care | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | I don't have anything against cssu-extras | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | it sounds like good idea for things | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | I'm just saying that we must consider available resources and doers, over ideology | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | if doers will decide that it's fine to have CSSU and commuty kernel as 1 project, it's fine for me | 23:31 |
| chem|st | stay focused | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | if they'll decide to have 3 different kernels *and* people will like to work on it... | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's for nobody to decide, it's written in CSSU 'manifest' this won't happen | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | considering we have 2 kernel developers, I doubt it. | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | manifest can be changed. | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | updated | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | whatever. | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, in you rfork you can change it all the way you like | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | it's no one's right to obstruct it, if Community would like change. | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | fork is bad word here. | 23:33 |
| chem|st | Estel_: the way this is gonna go... you should ask all to develop nemo to topnotch usable | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | if community prefers your fork, they'll follow | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | In worst case, rather split, but I doubt it will ever happen. | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, wtf with this hijack? | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | it's not Your property | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | doers and user = community will decide what CSSU is, and, in fact, are deciding every day | 23:34 |
| Woody14619 | Wasn't the whole point of CSSU to be able to use upstream tools? If you stick to a broken downstream behavior, what's the point of it? | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | good point. | 23:34 |
| chem|st | the developers decide not the users | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, there is something valid in HYour point | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | but, people develop and use what they want | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, latest point is not valid | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: nope | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't hijack cssu | 23:35 |
| Woody14619 | This is what library revisioning (and kernel module versioning) is for. If you break functionality, you pop up the major and allow both to co-exist. | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | if users don't use, devs dont decide | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | it got a clear destiny | 23:35 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, I think You should rest, honestly. | 23:35 |
| merlin1991 | guys srls | 23:36 |
| merlin1991 | y | 23:36 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, can you please stop with the hijack nonsense? You sound like a 4 year old. | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | there is no such thing as hijacking cssu, cssu is constantly evolving idea. | 23:36 |
| chem|st | Estel_: there might be some userbase wanting naked babes dancing while an upgrade happens... as long as ther is no developer adding a naked-babes feature to his upgrade there will be no naked babes! | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | it's just a heated discussion ;) | 23:36 |
| merlin1991 | cssu is going to be what the cssu maintainers decide, any other project that possibly is 90% like cssu can do whatever it's going todo | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, you should stop trying to find arguments why some change to CSSU might be needed that makes it incompatible to stock maemo | 23:36 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, true | 23:36 |
| merlin1991 | but cssu as itself has a mission statement and is going to stick to that | 23:37 |
| Woody14619 | We get your point... for the 100th time.... saying it 101 times won't change anything. | 23:37 |
| Estel_ | now, old bugs for compatibility sake are those naked babies | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | CSSU *is* and *stays* compatible to stock maemo | 23:37 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: +1 | 23:37 |
| Estel_ | merlin1991, not entirely true | 23:37 |
| Estel_ | maintainers can be changed. | 23:37 |
| chem|st | if not the idea of flashing and just installing cssu brakes | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | if they would like to obstruct project | 23:38 |
| merlin1991 | that's what doc means by hijack | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | btw compatible with maemo != compatible with bugs | 23:38 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, That's a great goal... and acheaving this 99% of the time is great. But there are times it needs to change. | 23:38 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, Not every app worked out of the box even when the PR releases hit from Nokia. | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | if powertop is screwed, it's not kp fault | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | sure thing | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | and good point from Woody14619 | 23:38 |
| Estel_ | pr.1.2 broke TONS of things | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Woody14619: if you can convince 99% of experienced kernel and system architects that tere's simply no other way,then maybe | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | no one said to Nokia "You won't hijack maemo" | 23:39 |
| chem|st | cssu is to fix whatever is possible by not destroying the base everything further upstream should go to mer | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: bullshit | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, 100% of our kernel developers is 2 people | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell me which app broke by migration 1.2->1.3 | 23:39 |
| Estel_ | 1.1->1.2 I said | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: you rnotion of kernel developers is 100% differing to mine | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | and for that, just use archive | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | ok, I'm talking about people actively working on our kernel right now. | 23:40 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, Several... Mappero, nhouse, Xploder.... | 23:40 |
| Estel_ | btw, I'm sure our powertop is screwed, as it's hardcoded to 600 mhz | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | is it valid for You? | 23:41 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, It took offline over a month to update their app to work. Mappero it still busted. | 23:41 |
| * cehteh needs more popcorn, bitches! | 23:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? now you're the ones to decide we do that shit again (if such shit actually ever happened)? | 23:41 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, and it was clearly PR1.2->PR1.3 | 23:41 |
| chem|st | Estel_: 1.1->1.2 and 1.2->1.3 broke things as there were chip firmware upgrades involved incompatible to previous versions so there was no fallback or downgrade possible anymore, you devicce was stuck with what was installed last... | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | nope, it's just that feasibility > ideology | 23:41 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, agreed | 23:42 |
| chem|st | cehteh: good evening | 23:42 |
| * chem|st grabs some of cehteh's popcorn | 23:42 | |
| Estel_ | it's quite funny as we're discussing how much kernel's versions we should have... | 23:42 |
| * freemangordon wants too | 23:42 | |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, I'm not arguing that we need to follow Nokia's lead on this. Just saying, don't let being 100% compatible hobble other things. | 23:42 |
| Estel_ | while we have NOT enough people to work on current sole kernel | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly guys, I (co-)managed whole projects (see ~joerg) - I'm not going to continue discussion on that level now | 23:42 |
| Estel_ | well, it's Your right to leave discussion at any time, of course | 23:43 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, If something is majorly broken, and can't be worked around, consider the possability of that change. | 23:43 |
| Estel_ | I'm sure shape of projects will appear naturally, anyway, by developers working on them | 23:43 |
| *** guampa has quit IRC | 23:44 | |
| Estel_ | honestly, I enjoy ideological conversationsp but we need more "just get things done" and doers | 23:44 |
| chem|st | discussion ended, that's what we all agree about...oO( freemangordon gimme back my popcorn #@%&*(@$^ ) | 23:44 |
| Estel_ | haha | 23:45 |
| Woody14619 | In all honesty, I'm not even sure what we're talking about originally... but screaming that changing anything is hijacking things, and remaining 100% with stock is a bit of a strech, when Nokia itself has changed what "stock" means at least twice. | 23:45 |
| merlin1991 | btw Estel_ about "replacing" cssu maintainers, who's entitled todo so? | 23:45 |
| chem|st | this is now about popcorn | 23:45 |
| *** guampa has joined #maemo | 23:45 | |
| freemangordon | chem|st: well, ok, take your popcorn back | 23:45 |
| Estel_ | merlin1991, deva, obviously, but I doubt it will ever happen. In fact I'm sure not | 23:45 |
| merlin1991 | deva? | 23:46 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: Estel_ mer/nemo is what you are looking for... not hijacking cssu | 23:46 |
| Estel_ | it was just response to religiously saying "no one will change anything cause we decide" | 23:46 |
| chem|st | and that is another channel for sure | 23:46 |
| Estel_ | deva, it's nordic god, don't You know? :P | 23:46 |
| merlin1991 | nope :D | 23:46 |
| Estel_ | chem|st, mer is different project | 23:46 |
| Estel_ | keep it out of scope please, thanks | 23:47 |
| chem|st | Estel_: so is cssu... | 23:47 |
| Estel_ | cssu is people :D | 23:47 |
| chem|st | you are looking for some project build around PK | 23:47 |
| Sicelo | and mer? | 23:47 |
| Estel_ | if devs won't like maintainers religiously saying "no change!" cssu will just become something else | 23:47 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, when mer/nemo has a working sync app, call me. While I applaud those working on it, I don't see it going very much farther than it already is. | 23:47 |
| Estel_ | in fact it's academic discussion | 23:47 |
| chem|st | or even around meego... | 23:47 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, why maemo cssu is out of maemo scope? | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | more "do", less "what will happen if" | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | seriously, who is most active CSSU pair of devs now? | 23:48 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(And people say all the drama is in TMO.... ;) ) | 23:48 |
| Sicelo | :P | 23:48 |
| merlin1991 | Woody14619: we have our own kind of drama here :D | 23:48 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: facebook broke so will others... wanna code all plugins from scratch? | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, lol | 23:48 |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 23:49 | |
| Estel_ | so tell facebook that the6're not compatible | 23:49 |
| Estel_ | and that they won't hijack maemo | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, there is a facebook plugin in nemo? | 23:49 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: it is out of scope if you are looking to dump nokia-maemo-base | 23:49 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, Facebook broke for iPhone as well... original iPhone 1 users are not getting updates. Want to update that? At least here we have the option. | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | AFAIK no, so what is the difference? It will be fritten from scratch in any way | 23:49 |
| freemangordon | *written | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | honestly, freemangordon and Pali are most active devs on both CSSU and KP | 23:50 |
| Woody14619 | Bingo... freemangordon nailed it in 1. :) | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | cooperation between two projects is profitable to all | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | in fact, it's going to consolidate IMO | 23:50 |
| Estel_ | and that also sounds very profitable for whole thing. | 23:50 |
| Woody14619 | I think lots of people are active.... being more active than another doesn't dictate terms. (Not always anyway) | 23:51 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: seen some fb icon in nemo videos, could be just an icon though ;) sure it will be like any other | 23:51 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 23:51 | |
| freemangordon | the difference (as I see it) is that 99% of the other stuff is still OK in maemo, while not in nemo. | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, sure thing | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | I just mean that devs decide with code | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | user with install | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | etc | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | no one can force anything | 23:51 |
| Estel_ | either by "change" ideology | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | or "you won't hijack" one | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | it's unrelated what is written on CSSU wiki. | 23:52 |
| Woody14619 | yes, but encouraging that mentality leads to a mess. One look at OpenMoko will show you how slippery that slope is. | 23:52 |
| Estel_ | it's important what it will become via work done on it | 23:52 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: getting nemo to work would track some attention... | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | so changing the core OS just to have a working facebook applet (if we take that as an example) sounds inefficent to me | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, sure think :) | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | *thing | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: and maintainers decide about repo. period | 23:53 |
| Woody14619 | Some structure is good. And attempting to retain compatability is a good thing most times. The trick is to know when and where to compromise. | 23:53 |
| chem|st | it is inefficient | 23:53 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, DocScrutinizer will become mad if You keep pointing why OpenMoko is failure ;) | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | users=install, devels=code, maintainers=repo | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: yiu're an idiot, with all respect | 23:53 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer, maintainer are not rulers. | 23:53 |
| Estel_ | no problem ;) | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure they are | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | although i preffer meritocratic arguments | 23:54 |
| chem|st | Estel_: they are... look at debian for example | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | the sole rulers about that particular repo | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | no, they're not | 23:54 |
| merlin1991 | and why not? | 23:54 |
| freemangordon | sure, as long as there are new/updated packages to maintain | 23:54 |
| chem|st | if maintainers say no it does mean no | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Estel_: make that change, tell me how | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | because when maintainers become too found on themselves | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're freew to fork | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | and obstruct changes that majorfity wants | 23:54 |
| chem|st | then it is called suse? | 23:54 |
| Estel_ | project is split like OpenOffice | 23:54 |
| merlin1991 | then either there is a body ably to remove them or you fork | 23:55 |
| merlin1991 | that's it | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're not telling maintainers what to do | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | and maintainers are left with dead and "empty" repo | 23:55 |
| merlin1991 | the maintianers themselves still wont change | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | yea, but they don't matter anymore | 23:55 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, I'm confused on why you see this as an "us vs them" thing? | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | oracled don't matter about FOSS office now | 23:55 |
| chem|st | there is no mozilla firefox on debian repos guess why... | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | they can stand whener they want | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? your problem? | 23:55 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer, I don't think anyone is demanding you (or anyone else) do something. | 23:55 |
| Estel_ | if maintainers think that is good to become sole figure guarding cementry, why not | 23:56 |
| Estel_ | sure thing, no demanding anywhere | 23:56 |
| chem|st | and charging cssu to become what you just discuss will endup like debian sid | 23:56 |
| Estel_ | I just don't agree with "You will do as we say" | 23:56 |
| Estel_ | devs are doing. | 23:57 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, which is why most Debian users have a second repo installed (at higher priority) to pick up Firefox and other tools. | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | devs are doing. | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | users using and feedbacking | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | sorry, mistake echo | 23:57 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: someone altered the code to fit debian and called it iceweasel! | 23:57 |
| Estel_ | iceweasel is, unfortunately, a little too slowly developed for most users. | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | anyway. | 23:58 |
| freemangordon | chem|st, but if nothing new comes because of some ideological reasoning, then there is a risk CSSU to stagnate | 23:58 |
| Sc0rpius | stagnate? | 23:58 |
| Estel_ | there is a risk that something else will become cssu | 23:59 |
| chem|st | I optout at that point thanks...oO(unstable is to fast for "most" users...) | 23:59 |
| Estel_ | and old cssu become open office | 23:59 |
| Estel_ | i.e. thing that only pretend that it's existing | 23:59 |
| Woody14619 | Same thing happens with Fedora. Open-only mentatlity forces a large majority of the users to add another repo just to get better than 640x480 displays... | 23:59 |
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