IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-05-15

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teotwaki_I don't remember who helped me out here, regarding a connect() issue on UDP connected sockets, but regarding that, I've filed a bug against the Linux man pages:
povbotBug 43249: was not found.01:44
teotwaki_shut up povbot01:44
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Siceloanyone.. do you have a /usr/sbin/evkey on your N900? backupmenu doesn't work because i'm missing it :\09:54
Sicelohmm, it's in /usr/bin/ .. why does backupmenu now look for it in /usr/sbin09:55
Siceloand backupmenu worked fine before09:56
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* Sicelo hopes he won't mess his system by making a link for evkey in /usr/sbin10:19
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Siceloah, worked :)10:21
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sergsergiui want to add Copy/Paste to Xterminal ,   gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[T,|,>,~,\`,PU,PD,F5,Copy,Paste]"11:53
sergsergiucan tell me someone values for /apps/osso/xterm/keys , copy/paste?11:53
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DocScrutinizerwhat an idiocy:
povbotBug 12612: Community Council election process isn't working at all11:58
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DocScrutinizerhighlights: >> Long pauses in between the process only means that people drop out because they're distracted. << (we're talking about two days).  And >>I'm sure you'd hate to ruin your chances of election by delaying the vote. :^)<< makes me think he already drummed up his voting dummies, and not fears about _own_ election12:01
DocScrutinizerbut no, he's actually not even running for election12:03
DocScrutinizerhe's one of the council members I never heard of before12:03
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sergsergiuDocScrutinizer: is possible to add Copy/Paste shorcut to Xterminal Toolbar?12:06
chem|stsergsergiu: those are keyboard buttons! if you know a keyboard function you might be lucky...12:09
DocScrutinizershift-ctrl-c and shift-ctrl-v work for desktop xterm. Dunno if they also will work for osso-xterm12:09
chem|stthat way it wont work12:09
chem|stDocScrutinizer: just ctrl-c ctrl-v for maemo afair12:09
DocScrutinizerctrl-c in xterm, suuuuure :-D12:10
chem|stDocScrutinizer: the terminal emulator on maemo lmc12:10
DocScrutinizerctrl-c actually works gret in osso-xterm, just not for copy12:10
sergsergiunot working.. Ctrl + C is another thing on Terminl, have12:10
chem|stouch yeah sry still on my first coffee...12:11
sergsergiuhave Copy?paste buttons on top toolbar..12:11
chem|stDocScrutinizer: please slap me12:11
sergsergiui want buttons from Top toolbar, to bottom toolbar..12:11
chem|stsergsergiu: if you mark something you get copy and paste from the menu not the toolbar, one more tap12:11
chem|stno can do12:12
sergsergiuif you use terminal on full bad ideea to use normal copy ..paste , of Xterm..damn12:12
DocScrutinizerthere's no direct way afaik, though you might try to find copy and paste key in those key definitions12:12
chem|stthings like ctrl-shift-$ are really bad shortcuts for n900 kbd12:13
DocScrutinizersure, esp for ghost keys12:13
sergsergiumaybe shift + c , i dont need Euro Symbol12:13
sergsergiuis possible to rebind it?12:13
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chem|styou can change the keyboard setting yes but if you are able to rebind a key combination like that you can also add it to the bottom toolbar12:15
MohammadAGGhost keys?12:16
povbotBug 5421: keys when long pressed should give the blue symbol/number12:16
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: n-key-rollover12:17
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sergsergiuDocScrutinizer: forum is unusual on this problem :)) i watched everything *apps/osso/xterm*12:17
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: I have that crap turned off for a while12:17
sergsergiuchem|st: maybe on bottom toolbar u can add just one symbol , not combinatio like ctrl & C12:17
DocScrutinizeryou can't turn off n-key-rollover (or the lack thereof)12:17
DocScrutinizershift-ctrl-j/k problem12:18
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sergsergiuthanks doc12:20
DocScrutinizerSh-Fn-J/K, Sh-CTL-K/H12:21
chem|stsergsergiu: I actualy use the top bar if ever needed, as I usually do not need to copy from xterm and not paste in it again12:21
MohammadAGYou'll probably have to modify osso-xterm's source12:23
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DocScrutinizeryes, since shift-ctrl-c is bount to same function as ctrl-c12:26
DocScrutinizeryou might fix that in kbd mapping though12:26
DocScrutinizermaybe then it could work12:27
MohammadAGOr just hardcode the new buttons12:27
DocScrutinizeryou still have to hardcode for a sequence maped to anything12:27
MohammadAGOr, a more advanced way is to modify the XML loading function12:28
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: The method that loads the config12:45
MohammadAGIn osso-xterm's code12:45
DocScrutinizerJaffa: it's obviously useless, those guys are so eager to quit their term, they won't give new council a clean start, if that means delaying vote for another 2 or even 30 days12:48
DocScrutinizerthey spoiled the schedule as given in statutes, now they think when they're already late it's better to break another 5 or more rules of statutes to not get more late. A paradox idea12:52
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: The trouble is, I think we *would* have to look at another multi-week timetable.12:57
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: And I want SD69 voted out. It seems unlikely, but the audacity of standing for a third term when he's been visible but ineffective is really pissing me off.12:58
JaffaDocScrutinizer: A new timetable (where the vote starts with the tokens) is preferable from a usability/participation PoV compared with an email + 2 day delay (IMHO)12:59
DocScrutinizerJaffa: sorry to say that, but your personal interests are as irrelevant as anybody other's13:00
DocScrutinizerin this regard, on this topic13:00
DocScrutinizernew timetable is the only correct thing to do. Alas in your post you seem to suggest a timetale that dates like starting vote in 3h13:01
DocScrutinizer>>1) Election starts at 2012-05-15T12:00Z and runs to 2012-05-22T11:59Z [...]  I can only think that (1) is the right option.13:02
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DocScrutinizerand btw the minimum 2 day lead time for sending ballots has been proven necessary in past elections, as it always been difficult to make all mails go out correctly, and those two days are considered minimum time needed to sort that out. See >>[Subj:] Maemo Community Council election Q3 2010; 2010-09-17(!!!) 15:43;  [...] Due to reports from several people about problems with voting tokens13:08
povbotBug 12612: Community Council election process isn't working at all13:08
DocScrutinizerbeing blocked by mail relays, we are sending this reminder to everyone who has not yet voted in the elections, confirming your voting credentials.13:08
DocScrutinizereach election it's being promised next time it will get done better, each time it's worse13:09
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: People need to be interested enough to organize it, if they aren't, what does it say about the need for a council...13:11
X-FadeWe can argue a lot about things that do not matter at all. Like when to mail or how long to keep the voting open...13:12
DocScrutinizerotoh people weren't exatly interested in recent votes in Syria, guess why13:12
JaffaDocScrutinizer: My point is that the current council aren't necessarily going to do a better job no matter how long is waited13:12
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I do not believe it is sensible to *ever* have a delay between emailing the ballot and when that ballot can be actioned.13:12
X-FadeJaffa: Attach a vcal so they don't forget :D13:13
JaffaDocScrutinizer: If there are problems with people receiving the email, that has to be dealt with quickly and responsively whilst the election is in progress13:13
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: The logic doesn't stand up: there's always going to be a reason why it should be delayed 'n'+1 days13:13
X-FadeMail is coming from the same server we have been using for a long while, it should not be an issue.13:13
Jaffa...and if it's at recipient's end, there's no reason why two days is sufficient.13:14
JaffaX-Fade: How long does it take to send all the ballots out?13:14
X-FadeJaffa: the actual sending?13:14
JaffaAs long as there's a council blog post saying "if you haven't got your token by $Y, do $X", that's all that can be done13:15
JaffaX-Fade: Yeah, it's one mail per person13:15
X-FadeI guess an hour or so.. It is only a few k mails.13:15
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: And yes, my timescale did start in only a few hours. Don't see why it can't (since the info seems to have all been drafted) and the voter roll created13:16
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: (should not be an issue.) and yet it been, so many times (not only with elections mail)13:21
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Yet, I don't see anyone complaining about mailinglist mails etc.13:21
DocScrutinizerthanks to Nokia/service-provider for mailing doing an abysmal job, according to my sysop13:21
DocScrutinizerissues with reverse lookup not matching origin URL and whatnot13:22
DocScrutinizereven blacklisting every now and then13:23
X-FadeI have no issues on any of the mayor mail services, it isn't that bad.13:23
DocScrutinizerbut I honestly am less concerned about a closed lead time from mailing til vote _opens_, I'm concerned about the timespan from mailing til vote _closes_13:23
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Those users are the minority. Therefore, they should be looked after, but not drive the situation. If there's $WHATEVER_COMMS_METHOD_TO_TELL_THEM_TO_EXPECT_AN_EMAIL up immediately, and there's a clear & responsive process, that deals with the majority (can vote straightaway) and the minority (can get problems fixed quickly)13:24
DocScrutinizeralso about timespan from proper announcement of voting date to that voting date13:24
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: If people haven't voted in 8 days, then they never will.13:24
DocScrutinizerthat's completely not true13:25
X-FadeI can send out a reminder half way, that will help a lot more.13:25
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: For what reason would people wait for 8 days after receiving their mail?>13:25
JaffaX-Fade: Holidays13:25
X-FadeJaffa: 1% of our voter base..13:26
DocScrutinizerpeople can vote even in one day (we do this all the time, everywhere on this globe), IF properly announced with sufficient lead time13:26
JaffaIf the date had been communicated clearly, and the schedule followed (even taking into account the nomination period), people can put plans in place13:26
X-FadeThere is always a reason, no money to pay for internet service is something we also need to take into account?13:26
DocScrutinizerwe need to take into account the ststutes13:27
X-FadeI really feel you are seeking issues that just aren't there.13:27
DocScrutinizerI posted a last desperate comment on that ticket13:27
DocScrutinizerI'm sure it'll get ignored13:28
DocScrutinizeras everybody seems to like to run this election in a way optimized by his own liking13:28
X-FadeWell, postpone the vote by a month. Do everything the proper way and see if it matters?13:29
DocScrutinizerin the end the trigger-happy will shoot while the prudent still wonder13:30
DocScrutinizerit matters for the validity of the election - it's a shame our community / council is incapable to run such a silly simple thing13:30
X-FadeWe're waiting on a response from Robert atm.13:31
DocScrutinizera ruleset more precise and shirter than the 10 commandments, and we're incapable to interpret and follow them13:31
X-FadeYet nobody stepped up beforehand to run or monitor the process.13:32
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Fair points. But what if SD69 is incapable of following those rules to produce a valid election.13:32
X-FadeThis isn't about technical parts, this is about the people part.13:32
JaffaX-Fade: Because it's quite clearly the Council's job. In fact, it's the *sole* job they've got.13:33
Jaffa(everything else is "coordinate", "facilitate".)13:33
DocScrutinizerseems there's a Nokia community manager to step in then, AIUI and whoever that might be13:33
DocScrutinizerJaffa: ^^^13:33
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: No, Nokia doesn't have to do anything.13:33
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: We, the community need to.13:33
DocScrutinizerI'm just quoting13:33
chem|stjust declare doc and me council for the time being...13:34
DocScrutinizer>> Failure to do so may result in the Nokia Community Manager, or the outgoing Council, declaring their nomination invalid<<13:34
chem|stI am so fed by those election whores13:35
X-FadeA community is what you make of it.13:35
DocScrutinizerthough not exactly on the point of a council miserably failing on its duties, it still seems to somewhat apply by common sense13:35
DocScrutinizerat least to me this installs a Nokia community manager "deputy"13:37
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DocScrutinizeror call it sherrif13:38
DocScrutinizeri'd assume that's Quim by now13:38
DocScrutinizerif a council goes completely nuts, we need some instance to remove that dictatorship13:40
DocScrutinizerand to reinitialize/re-instantiate the council13:40
DocScrutinizerthat's quite obviously this Nokia Community Manager13:41
X-FadeBut even that really worst case, we can do that ourselves as a community too.13:41
DocScrutinizerwho's going to organise the elections of the exile-cabinet then?13:42
X-FadeYou discuss things like that in public and try to come up with a solution that has community wide support.13:43
DocScrutinizerwho's going to inform nemein about not further listening to dictator council?13:43
DocScrutinizerwell, basically elections are MEH in my book, been since ~1 year13:44
DocScrutinizerthese one no aengstrom better13:44
DocScrutinizerso I stop my rant now, as I think next council won't be any better than current one13:45
DocScrutinizerI'm just embarrassed we can't get such a simple thing like an election right13:45
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: I think I'm persuaded. I don't think there should be a delay between sending voting tokens and the start of the election (though a reminder email would mitigate those concerts), I can see why we should have a publicised date.14:04
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: alas it seems yur notion is only marginally more relevant for the whole decicion making than mine. In the end it's the current council that decides, and that's a bug in design somehow14:06
X-FadeBut really, the current council is not against elections.14:08
DocScrutinizerI'd really love to see next elections getting planned at *beginning* of this term, and council removed if they fail to manage that14:08
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DocScrutinizerwell, again, I'm getting headache from all this. I'll leave it up to you to do whatever feels right. I once almost missed my token, due to no proper mail sending infra (Nokia graylisted) and me not even noticing due to nobody publishing the date every 60 minutes. This time I for sure won't frown if it doesn't show up at all in my mail, I'll just shrug and think "expected"14:11
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Dude, you already got it.. chill a bit :)14:19
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: We tested it, you got the mail.14:19
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Anyway, you've persuaded me. See comments 28 & 2914:20
DocScrutinizersure, I offered to test it to allow for a smooth election without the annoyances of last ones. However I'm not sure if I already got Nokia whitelisted (by my mail sysop) to cope with all sorts of brainfsck in ships with in the mail header.14:21
DocScrutinizerI've seen the comments14:22
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Nokia has got nothing to do with this.14:22
DocScrutinizerI'm not contributing anymore, earns me bad karma14:22
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: s/Nokia/${whatever-srerver-sends-those-mails}/ - sorry14:23
X-FadeAnyway, I see nothing strange in the headers and it should be ok.14:25
DocScrutinizermuch appreciated you take care about it14:27
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ruskie <-- rofl14:35
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khertanruskie, it s patched now14:46
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timelessanyone here bank w/ sampo?19:32
jogaheh...nope, stopped being their customer after the new ridiculous online bank19:37
Proteous_sampo? isn't that that one whale?19:38
Proteous_or was that shamoo19:38
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vi_I just got a new n900 keyboard from my local Nokia care centre19:40
vi_it took a HELL of a lot of talking to get them to give me the damn keyboard19:40
vi_they wanted to fit it!19:41
vi_and imma all like:19:41
vi_'seriously guys, I would much rather fit it myself' (last time I brought you my n900, you gave me back an N8...19:41
vi_Can anyone provide a good reason to not fill the back with artic silver thermal grease?19:42
freemangordonvi_, isn't that conductive?19:43
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Proteous_it is19:43
freemangordongood enough reason?19:43
vi_freemangordon: I thought the point of it was it is NOT electrically conductive!19:43
freemangordonare you sure?19:43
freemangordonit has metal dust in it, ain't?19:44
Proteous_it is conductive19:44
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Proteous_and no, the point of it is to be thermaly conductive19:44
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vi_it appears you are correct19:45
vi_you win this time19:45
vi_this time19:45
Proteous_dun dun duuuuunnnnn19:45
freemangordonvi_, but you can use the good old silicone paste afaik, for sure it is not-conductive19:47
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BiggAlyou could however fill it with mineral oil, and then make sure it doesn't leak - it has a really high heat capacity19:47
BiggAlbut that could easily get messy19:47
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vi_Where is DocScrutinizer?  Doesnt he realise there is someone here who is wrong he could be telling so?19:50
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BiggAlwouldn't be the first time telling me I was wrong though, last time it took an hour and a half to get to a point where we could both accept the other being wrong :p19:52
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vi_BiggAl: that is so wrong19:54
freemangordonvi_, nah, you're wrong19:54
vi_what if i put a tiny blob on the back of the RF sheilding above the cpu/mem between it and the battery compartment metal?19:54
DocScrutinizeryou're all so wrong19:54
vi_DocScrutinizer: is CPU on the same side of the PCB as the keyboard?19:56
* DocScrutinizer just wonders what'S the use of filling back of keymat with arctic silver thermal conductive19:56
freemangordonvi_, AFAIK the most of the termal dissipation goes through PCB, adding a thermo-conductive material above CPU won't help much19:56
DocScrutinizerit will nicely add to thermal isolation ;-P19:57
DocScrutinizerbtw what makes you think the CPU gets hot?19:58
vi_DocScrutinizer: ...OC19:58
DocScrutinizerI've rarely ever heard about thermal problems when OCing N90019:58
freemangordonwell, depends, a thermo-conductive rubber may work19:59
DocScrutinizerI suggest thermo-conductive snake oil, beaten up to cream19:59
freemangordon:nod: might do the job as well20:00
vi_did you see the post on TMO by the guy who managed to cram some 5800 speakers into his n900?20:00
* DocScrutinizer is not particularly interested, smiles at his 4 spare speakers20:01
vi_what protective film is there for my keyboard that you spoke off?20:02
DocScrutinizerwait, weren't they the same anyway20:02
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freemangordonno, they are bigger20:02
vi_no, he had to chop a bit out of his case20:02
vi_LOL indeed.  He complained they sounded 'tinny'.20:03
DocScrutinizerORLY?!  :-o20:03
MohammadAGever considered stand up irony?20:04
vi_my new keyboard has a broken surround.20:04
MohammadAGit's like comedy, but uses the irony of others for entertainment20:04
DocScrutinizeryou got a kbd with surround sound?20:04
freemangordonwhat a pitty it is broken20:05
vi_oh well, back in with the manky old one20:05
DocScrutinizerblame Dolby-Labs20:05
vi_MohammadAG: and how does irony relate to 'tinny'?20:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hi! :-)20:06
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MohammadAGvi_, it doesn't, it's just your style :P20:07
MohammadAGoh, javispedro's alive20:07
MohammadAGanyone good at handling servers?20:07
MohammadAGmy server points to a russian site in the .htaccess file20:08
vi_MohammadAG: you been haxxed?20:08
DocScrutinizeryou got haxord20:08
MohammadAGoh, they're no longer write protected20:08
MohammadAGyeah, my question was that they were write protected20:09
MohammadAGthe .htaccess files20:09
vi_MohammadAG: someone haxes your webhost gaining root access over ALL the accounts.20:09
DocScrutinizerno kidding20:09
vi_MohammadAG: then proceeds to ruin all the sites on the server20:09
vi_MohammadAG: not just yours.20:10
DocScrutinizerhappy re-install day err week20:10
MohammadAG clicking pool still redirects me20:10
MohammadAGwhat gives20:10
MohammadAG$ rm .htaccess20:13
MohammadAGrm: remove write-protected regular file `.htaccess'?20:13
vi_MohammadAG: have you tried a full reflash?20:13
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you lost me20:13
vi_MohammadAG: wait, did you install battery patch?20:13
DocScrutinizerwho's redirecting you where to?20:13
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, clicking pool in that link redirects me to a russian site20:13
DocScrutinizerbwahaha, google.de20:14
DocScrutinizernow even works20:15
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DocScrutinizer free/                   21-Mar-2012 14:16    -20:15
MohammadAGThis web page at has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences.20:15
MohammadAGthe fuck20:15
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DocScrutinizerthanks for spamming the URL here then >:-(20:16
MohammadAGyeah, umm, sorry about that20:17
MohammadAGit works now it seems20:17
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: your box consideredrooted nevertheless20:18
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MohammadAGtechnically, it's not mine20:20
DocScrutinizerirritating permissions as reported by "normal" tools like ls are a strong indication as well20:20
MohammadAGit's on DreamHost20:20
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vi_freemangordon: I think I have found a bug in CSSU20:21
vi_freemangordon: camera-ui220:22
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vi_if you use camera-ui2, take some photos etc20:23
DocScrutinizercamera on my CSSU daily phone is basically fsckdup20:23
vi_then close camera-ui220:23
vi_then open blessn90020:23
vi_try to take a photo, it will crash and close blessn90020:23
DocScrutinizerit shortly shows taken picture in postview, then switches to black screen with notice "the file can't be displayed" OWTTE20:24
vi_DocScrutinizer: WFM20:24
vi_however if you open, then close fcamera after camera-ui2 blessn900 works fine20:24
DocScrutinizervi_: seems to me your bug already got reported and fixed20:25
vi_is it possible camera-ui2 is leaving the camera hardware in a funny state20:25
vi_DocScrutinizer: ORLY?20:25
DocScrutinizerI recall there's been sth with filename scheme20:25
vi_DocScrutinizer: are you perhaps refering to a different bug?20:26
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MohammadAGWhen you lose yourself in your own code...20:38
MohammadAGvi_, or perhaps blessn900 isn't initializing the camera as it has to20:39
MohammadAGsince fcam works fine20:39
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: MohammadAG: yes I'm alive, mostly on Friday afternoons only though.20:49
MohammadAGit's tuesday :p20:50
MohammadAGoh wait, so you're undead now/20:50
* javispedro checks breath... yes, undead.20:50
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vi_MohammadAG: very good point20:56
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RST38hMEANWHILE: Brilliant Thieves Steal $500,000 In Medical Equipment Loaded With Flesh-Eating Bacteria21:08
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holmesiidoes anyone program with accelerometer on N900? I want know can I use this meter to calculate the device's velocity21:20
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holmesiidoes anyone program with accelerometer on N900? I want know can I use this meter to calculate the device's velocity21:24
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* RST38h yawns21:30
RST38hGeneral: Is Florida succumbing to the flesh eating bacteria as we speak?21:31
GeneralAntillesJust the old folks in the shittier hospitals.21:31
RST38hGeneral: More importantly, is your university CS department safe? =)21:31
GeneralAntillesMine is.21:31
GeneralAntillesUF's is just getting folded into math and engineering.21:31
GeneralAntillesWhich is less world-ending than it sounds.21:31
RST38hAfter all, CS and EE are often combined21:32
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vi__how do I disable desktop portrait mode?23:47
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MrPinguSome gconf value23:51
MrPingudescribed in the wiki23:51
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MrPinguvi__ : see here

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