IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-05-08

jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: are you looking for anything specific00:01
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yep, I want to know if NOLO tries to boot a initrd00:13
DocScrutinizersince IF this was the case, that would be an extremely cute way to splice in uBoot00:14
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DocScrutinizeras we see /dev/mtd4 still around, I would guess the code putting this partition to purpose also still exists in NOLO00:16
DocScrutinizeror maybe it's always been like kernel=mtd2 rootfs=mtd4 ?00:17 make kernel boot with initrd rather than standard rootfs?00:17
DocScrutinizerthis would kinda defeat the idea00:18
DocScrutinizerNFC how maemo4 handled this00:18
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: any hints from your side?00:19
DocScrutinizerthanks anyway00:21
ShadowJKI thought uboot idea was to put uboot where kernel is, and kernel on.. emmc?? no idea00:21
DocScrutinizernah, the 'main' kernel is co-existing with uBoot in mtd200:22
DocScrutinizerwhich makes sense for flasher --flash-only=rootfs00:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, afaik mtd4 is unused at all00:24
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so the idea actually been to push kernel a few bytes back, and place uBoot where kernel _started_00:24
MohammadAGwhether NOLO tries to do anything with it is something else00:24
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yes, it is unused00:24
DocScrutinizerthat'S the intriguing thing about mtd400:24
MohammadAGstring NOLO?00:25
DocScrutinizerwon't fly, the addr of mtd are hardcoded to NOLO, flasher, kernel00:25
DocScrutinizerso NOLO has some reference to mtd4 for sure00:26
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MohammadAGhmm, stringing mtd0 showed cam_launch00:26
DocScrutinizerthere's a lot of funny stuff in there00:26
DocScrutinizerI even suspected they got some hidden 'shell' in NOLO, like uBoot console00:27
MohammadAGWaiting for the kernel to magically appear00:27
MohammadAGPress any key to cancel00:27
MohammadAGYup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure.00:27
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MohammadAGlol the fuck00:28
DocScrutinizeryeah, toldya00:28
DocScrutinizerI had a fun 60 min reading all this lexems00:28
MohammadAGwp-test2 <-- see, the N900 was planned with WP00:28
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DocScrutinizerall those H!F*F and @FIF"F and H)F2F drive me nuts00:32
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DocScrutinizerstrings -n 6 /dev/mtd0|less '+/BOOT_MEDIAX'00:34
DocScrutinizerdoesn't "nolo>" look like a shell prompt?00:36
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DocScrutinizerType 'help'.00:37
DocScrutinizerCommand requires an argument.00:37
DocScrutinizerPrint help00:37
MohammadAGserila console00:37
DocScrutinizerTest failed, press any key to continue.00:38
DocScrutinizerobviously "help", "memtest" and "membench" are some valid commands00:39
MrPinguMay I know what you are digging in NOLO?00:42
DocScrutinizerwp == "write protected"00:42
DocScrutinizerumm, I guess those are all valid bootreasons: >> swdg_to sec_vio 32wd_to pwr_key charger sw_rst rtc_alarm hw_bug<<00:44
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: tbh i thought it's initrd that's stored there00:46
jacekowskigimme a sec00:46
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: mtd4? sure, just that it isn't00:47
jacekowskiso it's empty now?00:47
DocScrutinizerbeen like that on maemo400:47
DocScrutinizermaemo5 has no initrd any more00:47
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DocScrutinizer>>OneNAND blocks unlocked in %d us<<00:48
DocScrutinizerhmmpf, I almost forgot that one: >>usb_host_mode<<00:50
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jacekowskiwell, flasher can do initfs00:50
jacekowskiand i thought there is something in fiasco image00:50
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DocScrutinizerPanel ID: %02x%02x%02x00:55
DocScrutinizerUnknown panel ID00:55
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MrPinguDocScrutinizer, remember I was about to buy that new digitizer in germany?00:57
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MrPinguIt turned out to be fake, but I could send it back and might get a original one00:58
DocScrutinizerfurther valid commands: "nandbench" "nandscan"00:59
DocScrutinizerdang, fake? how so?00:59
MrPinguChina stuff, as I call it01:00
timelessanyone here in Finland and use Sampo?01:00
MrPinguNo serial number01:00
MrPinguNo earpiece01:00
* timeless is trying to use web banking to pay a bill to a Nordea account01:00
MrPinguno magnet for keyboard sensor01:01
MrPinguNo lens for Notification-LED01:01
MrPinguLooks really ugly btw :P01:01
DocScrutinizerdump:         gpio dump [all]01:01
DocScrutinizerset:          gpio <gpio_num> [1|0]01:02
DocScrutinizerread:         gpio <gpio_num>01:02
DocScrutinizerset as input: gpio <gpio_num> i01:02
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MrPinguAnyway, the company was really sorry so I still might get an original Nokia Digitizer01:03
MrPinguInstead of a fixed screen, I still have to wait...01:03
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MrPinguBtw the "hole" is getting bigger and bigger :P01:06
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DocScrutinizer>>Erasing certificate '%s'<   >Certificate '%s' written<<01:11
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DocScrutinizerWTF?! >>Image already contains an R&D certificate, not overwriting<<01:12
DocScrutinizerhey cehteh01:12
cehtehtime for a new n900 battery here, has anyone experience with ?01:12
spark666hey DocScrutinizer :)01:12
cehtehhi doc01:13
DocScrutinizererrrr >>PA_ROT13<<01:13
DocScrutinizer~rot13 haha01:13
* timeless manages to pay police department01:15
* timeless sighs01:15
* timeless needs to send a lot of money to finland :(01:15
DocScrutinizercehteh: probably the battery is just good enough - I'd be careful with the screen cleaner though ;-P01:16
DocScrutinizercehteh: I prefer 2nd hand batteries original Nokia BL-5j, from 2nd-handy shop etc01:17
DocScrutinizerwhatever is next corner of your flat01:17
cehtehthere are so many fakes on amazon that you cant tell which ones are original, so i think its prolly better to buy a fake with its own brand, at least they have some little reputation to loose01:17
cehtehyes i once tried that, but was not good01:18
DocScrutinizerso you go and swap it for a good one01:18
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DocScrutinizerI usuallly pay 5..10EUR for a battery "with waranty"01:18
cehtehwell i started model hely flying .. prolly i find somone who has a charger which can measure the real capacity01:19
DocScrutinizerand since you have the selling dude in hit distance....01:19
cehtehi mean if 1400 is printed on it then it would be fine if it reaches 1200 ..01:19
cehtehbut some fakes barely reach 700mah01:20
DocScrutinizeryou know your N900 has a pretty good battery meter?01:20
DocScrutinizerno need to find somebody with a external charger01:20
ltltoutltclaetIsn't the battery meater kalibrated for the N900 battery?01:21
MrPinguTell me? Just lshal | grep battery01:21
DocScrutinizerltltoutltclaet: nope01:22
cehtehyes the good meter isnt used by default01:23
cehtehbut i thought the resistor in the battery offsets the capacity01:23
DocScrutinizererr no01:23
DocScrutinizerwell, it offsets hal's idea of battery's design capacity01:24
cehtehyes thats what i meant, nokia borked it01:24
cehtehnow nokia is b0rken01:24
DocScrutinizerwrt BSI Nokia just failed to clearly specify what it's meant to do01:25
DocScrutinizerobviously there's been a semantics change in BSI, from battery temperature meter to battery size indicator01:26
cehtehok i just order that battery .. lets see what a first charge then reads, if its <1200mah i send it back01:27
DocScrutinizeryou'll need to do a charge-discharge-charge cycle to get any reasonable values01:28
cehtehyes i know, meant that with 'first charge' should saied 'complete charge' :)01:29
DocScrutinizerI suggest 10 >batterytest.log   for that01:29
cehtehactually batteries improve a bit on the first 2-3 charges01:29
cehtehbut if announced at 1400 then 1200 should be it on a first complete charge anyways .. and this doesnt even test how well it behaves after many cycles01:30
DocScrutinizermaybe 10 | tee batterytest.log01:30
spark666but lithium batterys dont need that format process afaik01:30
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DocScrutinizerwell, cehteh is right about the first 2..3 cycles.01:31
cehtehspark666: they do01:31
DocScrutinizerand improvement is marginal01:31
cehtehnot that much than older batteries but noticeable01:31
spark666okey then01:31
cehtehwhile on a mobile its certaily below the noise .. but i can tell from RC-Helicopter you notice it quite much01:32
DocScrutinizeryeah, for discharge @ 10C it's probably a lot more01:33
cehtehand more reliable discharge01:33
DocScrutinizerfor such usecases I'd actually "run in"01:34
DocScrutinizerLiIon might suffer @10C during the run-in period01:34
DocScrutinizer(well, some suffer @0.5C, any time)01:35
cehtehthis is lipo01:35
DocScrutinizerno, seriously, the impedance reduces quite noticably during first charge cycles, and shouldn't get ignored01:35
cehtehwell and RC batteries are certainly designed differently :) .. high C (actually 25C-50C discharge)01:36
cehtehallowing 5C charge but thats no good01:36
DocScrutinizerI've seen a weird cell specified for charging @2C but discharge only @0.5C01:37
* cehteh charging with less than 1C because of the flimsy charger :)01:37
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cehtehsure that wasnt a gold-cap? :)01:37
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cehtehi remember there where some things researched which are somewhere inbetween caps and batteries01:38
cehtehand there are certainly some uses for that (hey mobile phones with fast charging!)01:39
DocScrutinizerthis however was a plain old Li cell01:39
DocScrutinizer1400 or sth01:40
cehtehi'd like if i can charge my laptop in 15 minutes and have 6+hours runtime01:40
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r00t|homecehteh: fuel cells01:56
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ShadowJKcehteh; i have good experience with japod bl5j from dealextreme, but comments suggest quality has declined lately02:26
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ShadowJKalso the bl5j from eastmaze are nice02:27
cehtehShadowJK: i want something i can get easily in germany02:27
ShadowJKi think with rc helis your 2nd and 3rd flight have more power as you'vw warmed up battery on first flight, and chemistry works faster when it's warm :)02:28
r00t|homeShadowJK: those are better than genuine nokia?02:29
cehtehShadowJK: certainly not .. using and charging is hours to days apart :)02:30
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ShadowJKr00t|home; atleast first 100 cycles or so02:31
cehtehbut yes, some people have heated battery cases for RC LiPo's :)02:31
ShadowJKoriginal nokias I've used reached a "I should replace it" point after 150 cycles, but I didn't replace it to investogate how bad and quickly it degrades. at 300 cycles the phone broke, however. Was at 1000-1100 mAh remaining.02:32
r00t|homeyou're not pushing 1 cycle/day like me? ;)02:32
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cehtehi am still on my first now almost 2yrs old nokia battery (most of the time the phone is plugged into some power supply)02:33
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cehtehin past weeks it really degraded, and i want a working battery over summertime when i am more outside02:33
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cehtehnow it shows half full after few hours laying in the backpack . .and then suddenly jumps to empty02:34
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r00t|homei ebay'd myself a bunch of (almost) new nokia bl5j, because i sometimes use up more than one per day02:34
r00t|homeno idea if that's maybe caused by the being old, but works for me02:35
cehtehi have my bicycle ree-charge, that works more or less well (except few glitches when it stop charging)02:36
r00t|homebut the battery indicator still works somewhat acurately for all of them, actually i still have an hour or a half left at 0%02:36
cehtehbetter than changing batteries anyways .. i dont like to open the otterbox02:36
cehteh i think i posted that last year already :)02:37
cehtehneeds a slight 'shorten D+ D- Mod' to work with the N90002:37
r00t|homehow long of a ride does it take to charge up that thing?02:38
cehtehdunno i keep it charged and it only drains when i an very slow (steep hills) or i emergency charge my n900 when not riding02:40
cehtehand rarely i charge it at home with the ac adaptor02:40
cehtehfor normal riding i never got it empty, even with gps, monav and display always on02:41
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Macerthe chinese found an interesting way to eliminate all the waste from those forced abortions03:04
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SpeedEvil - tizen conf04:28
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ShadowJKis tizen alive04:33
ShadowJKi mean, i thought it was more vaporware than meego04:34
ShadowJKcehteh; If you do get a hobby charger, I believe you will find that your "suddenly empty" battery will test as 1100 with .1A discharge, and significantly less with .5A and .7A discharge :)04:35
cehtehtizen is up and kicking ..04:36
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SpeedEvilWell - that was content free (the above)04:55
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I was pondering that the first medfield phones have just hit, and that something might happen04:56
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nivw~seen MohammadAG10:30
MohammadAGThou dare summon me?10:30
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CityofLights2long time10:31
CityofLights2still studing CS?10:31
MohammadAGMechina now10:32
MohammadAGHow's life?10:32
CityofLights2started a new job, bought the N910:32
CityofLights2miss the N90010:33
CityofLights2and was hoping to solve some issues, and write something10:33
MohammadAGI need to get a job...10:33
CityofLights2seems the N9 has a bug when you define two gmail accounts10:33
MohammadAGIve yet to try that10:34
CityofLights2Willing to come to Herzeliya?10:34
MohammadAGHmm, depends on times :p10:34
CityofLights2what is the state of N900 development?10:34
CityofLights2did most folks ditched it?10:34
CityofLights2If I could get the mail for exchange on the N900 I would return to it10:35
CityofLights2maybe developers moved to tizen10:35
CityofLights2you should apply at Intel to work on Tizen10:35
MohammadAGNope, it's still going10:35
CityofLights2at Haifa10:36
CityofLights2what is going?10:36
MohammadAGHow? I have no certs10:36
CityofLights2not relevent IMO10:36
CityofLights2want my help?10:36
MohammadAGThe site says you need to have some sort of cert10:37
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CityofLights2what was your last contrib to maemo?10:39
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CityofLights2hi florian11:08
floriangood morning11:08
CityofLights2how are you doing?11:08
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MohammadAGMoo chem|st11:09
CityofLights2I just asked MohammadAG if anyone is still developing for maemo11:09
CityofLights2or did all developers moved to tizen11:09
CityofLights2just as its been a while since I have been here11:10
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CityofLights2I was hoping to write some usefull programs, which I didnt get a chance to11:11
CityofLights2and the N9 seems more hard to develop on11:11
chem|stmoo MohammadAG11:11
MohammadAGHmm, writing a UI for a grid of images seems fun11:11
userIm pretty sure there's yet to be a 2010, 2011, or 2012 equivilant to the trusty N90011:11
chem|stCityofLights2: yeah it's been a while11:12
user<- Dat username11:12
CityofLights2if there is a confrence soon - I will be glad to come11:12
CityofLights2fosdem is only at feb11:12
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CityofLights2I was also looking to ask the "community" did webos open source have any impact?11:13
CityofLights2was there any usefull code there?11:13
MohammadAGWhat's the % operation?11:15
CityofLights2I wish I could take the mail for exchange code and use it on maemo11:15
chem|stuser: I doubt they hurry nevertheless it seems "captain obvious" that they are recovering on Qt11:15
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chem|stmoo DocScrutinizer12:30
MohammadAGYeah, it's modulo, I just didn't understand why it was used12:30
MohammadAGFigured it out though12:30
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* DocScrutinizer hates netsplits12:37
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DocScrutinizer>> The HTML5 apps themselves however, tended to lag a bit...<< HRHRHRR12:48
MohammadAGThat tends to happen with web apps12:48
DocScrutinizerohnoes, webapps?12:49
MohammadAGBut I can say I was surprised12:49
MohammadAGHTML5 apps are web apps12:49
DocScrutinizernot necessarily12:49
Arkenoiwill tizen run Qt applications?12:49
MohammadAGNo, afaik12:50
DocScrutinizerapples first shot were webapps afaik12:50
DocScrutinizerno cnnectivity, no app starting12:50
DocScrutinizerthey soon found out that doesn't work12:50
MohammadAGThey quickly realized that sucked and introduced apps in ios 212:51
MohammadAGAnd how many companies did the same mistake? Nokia12:51
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MohammadAGSymbian's ovi store and MeeGo's are full of shitty web apps12:52
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DocScrutinizerwell, meego and webapps? maybe maps and drive12:54
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MohammadAGNo no no12:54
MohammadAGCheck the store12:54
MohammadAGIt's filled with rss feeds made into apps12:55
DocScrutinizerso what12:55
DocScrutinizeran rss feed IS a web app12:55
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DocScrutinizerfremantle has fahrplan12:56
MohammadAGBut you don't have to fill the store with them!12:56
DocScrutinizerand I have to say I like it, nevertheless12:56
DocScrutinizerstill fahrplan is not exactly what I'd call a webapp12:57
DocScrutinizerit's a python(?) app using a webservice12:57
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merlin1991pretty much everything I used on the n900 required an internet connection12:58
merlin1991the only real non web application I used was openoffice :D12:59
merlin1991which I again used to check attached word docs on company mails, thus using an internet connection again12:59
DocScrutinizerwell, there's still a difference if you select IRC servers in xchat's own dialog, or if you have to download a dialog as html-code from web12:59
fluxI used the gasoline consumption tracker tool12:59
merlin1991yeah that's true13:00
fluxhaven't found one for n9 yet..13:00
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merlin1991flux: hit me up with the package name please :)13:02
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Jaffa_Morning, all13:02
DocScrutinizerhi Jaffa_13:03
fluxmerlin1991, fuelpad13:03
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DocScrutinizerJaffa_: would you be willing to support my struggle to keep apps out of CSSU? It's a constant PITA users think CSSU should include this or that new app-replacement, usual rationale: "otherwise not enough users will test it" :-/13:05
DocScrutinizerbtw even some devels are rather keen in that regard13:06
MohammadAGSigh, again?13:06
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merlin1991hey Jaffa_13:07
DocScrutinizerseems sometimes common sense doesn't exactly take grip13:09
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DocScrutinizera lot of this dispute all the time might get mitigated by creating a repo with "optional cssu" apps13:11
DocScrutinizerI.E. apps / pkgs that are meant to augment CSSU regarding FOSS compliance, or any other nice-to-have augmented feature, but are not strictly needed for a CSSU update13:12
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: I've been thinking about that aswell13:13
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merlin1991when swaps over to obs we can actually do that quite easily13:13
DocScrutinizernot for all-thumb-system though ;-P13:14
Sicelomerlin1991: \o/13:15
DocScrutinizerI guess for this visionary plan of freemangordon we need a DSSU13:15
merlin1991and the d stands for?13:15
SiceloD being what?13:15
DocScrutinizeror whatever13:15
merlin1991ah :D13:16
merlin1991well again if we get a working obs it should be even easy todo an all thumb madness repo13:16
merlin1991though I neither want to work on that nor bugfix that :D13:16
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* DocScrutinizer neither13:17
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DocScrutinizerSicelo: D-angerous13:27
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* Sicelo lol13:27
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Jaffa_DocScrutinizer: As long as the app can be sensibly installed through Extras (possibly with an option or secondary package to make it "replace" the core) in a way which also doesn't conflict with the CSSU, absolutely.13:34
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DocScrutinizeranyway, this is an example where Jaffa_'s definition seems doesn't get accepted:   And here's my take on the paradigm:
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DocScrutinizeroh hi, Jaffa13:36
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JaffaSilly nick thingy13:37
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: ivgalvez is running for the Community Council, so that could cause other problems of "ownership" in future.13:37
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DocScrutinizerI think council needs to understand what CSSU is about, and what it's NOT about13:38
DocScrutinizerthe basic question seems to be "who owns CSSU", as our approach of common sense doesn't pan out13:40
JaffaDocScrutinizer: See SD69's suggestion of a Council-blessed "TSG for CSSU".13:40
JaffaMy questions of "where's this come from?" and "who decides?" was unanswered, AFAICT13:40
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Agree entirely with your argument in that conversation, btw.13:41
DocScrutinizerthanks :-D13:41
JaffaDocScrutinizer: But I'll be similarly accused of being "out of touch", "not a CSSU developer", ...13:41
dhbikerhi there.... umm what is this tracker-indexer doing on startup ? >.<13:41
DocScrutinizerindexing :-P13:41
DocScrutinizerI.E. it rescans all your photos and other media13:42
DocScrutinizerJaffa: only reasonable strategy would be to offer proper ways to do stuff like the requested app replacements, without redefining CSSU purpose13:44
DocScrutinizerJaffa: maybe actually along my suggestion of a repo cssu-extras13:44
HtheByo doc13:45
DocScrutinizerotherwise eventually somebody *will* redefine CSSU to "experimental"13:45
JaffaDocScrutinizer: But, AFAICT, there's not a dependency on the CSSU for either of the two apps mentioned.13:45
HtheBbeen a while ago since ive talked with you13:46
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DocScrutinizerhi HtheB13:46
HtheBhi, sup13:46
DocScrutinizerfine here13:46
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HtheBi made a video, donno if you already saw it though13:47
HtheBits a commercial, made it for a competition at work13:47
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I suppose there _may_ be a need for a cssu-extras to facilitate the "replace the default with this" packages, due to conflicts with mp-*13:49
DocScrutinizeralso for mere purpose of categories for apps - though I'd rather publish a apps-backup.tgz that simply installs all the "recommended" apps from whatever repo13:50
DocScrutinizerexploiting the restore function of backup app13:52
JaffaDocScrutinizer: So you'd have WC-2 in Extras which is installable by anyone. WC-2-mkdefault in cssu-extras which removed WC and swapped in WC-2 for its dbus/service/desktop functions13:53
DocScrutinizer"install this 'package', open `backup`, select restore, select `CSSU-recommended-apps`, pick whatever you wnat from the list showing up"13:53
DocScrutinizerJaffa: kinda, yes13:54
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DocScrutinizerI definitely hate the idea to forcefeed things like WC-2 on *all* maemo users (mind you it's been requested several times to make CSSU more public and recommend it to all users)13:57
DocScrutinizerwell, that statement probably qualifies for "Captain Obvious at his best"13:58
DocScrutinizerbut since yesterday I'm not that sure anymore what's really obvious and what evidently isn't13:59
Arkenoihow long does n900 battery last working as 3g->wifi router?14:05
merlin1991wtf is WC supposed to mean, water closet? :D14:06
merlin1991ah world clock :D14:07
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer, Jaffa I don't think we'll get much more rewrites into cssu, I'd even go as far and say that we should move the replacements that are in place currently into their own repository14:09
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: 2h?14:10
Jaffamerlin1991: Which rewrites are currently included?14:10
Jaffamerlin1991: Is it just Camera & Calculator?14:10
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: ++++14:10
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: :-( hp veer is said to work 5+ hours14:11
merlin1991camera-ui, calc, osso-applet-notificationlight, osso-applet-display, tv-out control14:11
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: depends a LOT on your actual signal situation on 3G14:11
* Arkenoi is thinking about buying a portable router or a smartphone but still don't know which is better14:11
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: look, TX power of GSM may be anything between 1mW and 2W, depending on your distance form BTS14:12
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merlin1991btw if obs is finished I'd even suggest to move the replacemetns that are currently in into their own repo14:12
DocScrutinizermy annoying rant since dunno when14:13
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merlin1991though I'm still pro writing those rewrites14:14
DocScrutinizerI dunno, should I propose to "hijack" CSSU right here and now? Declare jaffa, merlin1991, MohammadAG, me as owners?14:14
merlin1991who are the "owners" actually14:15
Jaffamerlin1991: MAG14:15
merlin1991sadly I wasn't around when it all started so I can't comment on it :/14:15
merlin1991I mean was there ever anything agreed who's responsible for CSSU in general?14:15
JaffaDocScrutinizer: A "Steering Group" indeed. But one created from the ground-up, rather than top-down.14:15
Jaffamerlin1991: MAG14:15
merlin1991so in other words it's me now xD14:16
teotwakiWhy, MAG not available anymore?14:16
JaffaHe did the work, and liased with X-Fade to get the repository setup. I was on the Council at the time and provided any management/assistance I could.14:16
merlin1991because mag is merly a public figure atm14:16
Jaffamerlin1991: Pragmatically, current owners are those who can push to CSSU-testing and -stable14:16
Jaffamerlin1991: Owners can be public figures14:16
merlin1991that'd be me and me14:16
merlin1991and mag for testing14:16
DocScrutinizerJaffa: any such bottom-up procedure needs a controlling instance on-top that decides on the proper bottom-up procedure14:17
JaffaDocScrutinizer: For appropriate blue-sky solutionising?14:17
teotwakiJaffa: too much management speak14:17
JaffaDocScrutinizer: But, agreed, sounds like as CSSU grows it needs some continuity of "vision"14:17
Jaffateotwaki: Force of habit14:17
merlin1991btw Jaffa pushing to cssu is linked to these garage groups:
JaffaDocScrutinizer: To prevent "populist" moves like shipping the whole of Extras in CSSU as "someone might need $APP"14:18
merlin1991I'll try to see what I can get out of X-Fade next obs meeting14:18
teotwakiThis is the age to harness vertical experiences and rapidly grow the CSSU as you streamline scalable ROI14:18
Jaffamerlin1991: And can anything get into -stable without going through -testing?14:18
merlin1991Jaffa: technically yes, practically no because I don't upload anything that wasn't like that 1:1 in testing14:19
DocScrutinizermore like "you get rnd(10) groups all claiming THEY implement the only true bottom-up formed TSG for CSSU"14:19
Jaffamerlin1991: So, the simple answer is that the current owners of the CSSU are you & MAG.14:19
merlin1991I think14:19
Jaffamerlin1991: Any TSG suggestion should come from you & MAG, and be fully bought into it, rather than coming from the Council.14:19
JaffaIt's your project.14:19
JaffaCouncil can't do anything about that, as they can't do the work.14:20
teotwakimerlin1991: The CSSU needs to be ever-greened and given some personal bandwidth and facetime, on your account, that is.14:20
JaffaCouncil only needs to get involved in deciding when to publicise it to "everyone" and helping in any way they can.14:20
teotwaki</bullshit management speak off>14:20
Jaffateotwaki: Only going forward14:20
DocScrutinizerteotwaki: shutup!14:21
teotwakiaye aye, sorry I intervened14:21
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DocScrutinizerso it's official now: CSSU is owned by MohammadAG and merlin199114:22
JaffaDocScrutinizer: That's what Garage says. Don't see how anyone could argue with it.14:22
JaffaDocScrutinizer: If they want to expand that ownership, *they* can.14:22
DocScrutinizerfull ack14:22
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: "ich weis wo dein haus wohnt, alter!"14:23
merlin1991hm makes me wonder, if my address is anywhere visible on the net14:24
merlin1991hah it isn't :D14:24
merlin1991at least not on a quick google search14:25
* merlin1991 forgot about dns whois14:26
merlin1991though I must say hetzner is even worse14:26
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merlin1991they registered an ipv6 range for me14:26
merlin1991and added my friggin telephone number14:26
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DocScrutinizerthat's what dead numbers are for14:28
merlin1991well they used the one they have from me, where I couldn't put a dead one since they call to confirm your idendity when you rent the server :/14:29
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DocScrutinizergive them a call, they might fix it14:29
merlin1991well it's too late for that14:29
merlin1991what is on the net, stays on the net14:29
DocScrutinizerOr should I wlak over give them a visit on your behalf? ;-)14:30
merlin1991make them headdesk by force ;)14:30
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teotwakihaha, anyone remember the Maemo meeting we had at Southbank in London, few years ago?14:31
teotwakiThe one where Gary used the N900 to display texts on walls, that could be moved around by the person holding the N900?14:32
teotwakiWell, that building has been named as one of the top 10 ugliest buildings in the world...14:32
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: I suggest to include jaffa to any TSG team you probably want to nominate14:34
DocScrutinizer(I'd not be averse as well to get nominated)14:35
merlin1991I don't think we need a formal TSG14:36
merlin1991the informal one has been working well enough imo14:36
DocScrutinizerI think we do, for sake of clear statements in case of "hostile takeover" of any form14:36
merlin1991in case of a hostile takeover we'd be fucked with or without TSG14:37
merlin1991since basically nobody can take over cssu unless they get access to the server14:38
DocScrutinizerI'm talking about stuff like
merlin1991and if they get that we're out of the queue anyway14:38
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merlin1991I think we're better of if we provide a "rewrites" repo aswell and keep everyone happy instaed of starting some non needed management system that if anything slows us down14:39
DocScrutinizerI don't suggest to *start* any system. Just *declare* existence of such14:39
MohammadAGA separate repo does sound good14:40
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DocScrutinizerall ack for the rest of your rationale14:40
DocScrutinizerafter all it's exactly my suggestion14:40
DocScrutinizerI also agree our operation mode worked quite fine so far14:41
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MohammadAGI'm skeptical about TSGs14:42
MohammadAGWe've seen how MeeGo performs14:42
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: we already have that TSG, based on meritocracy and who's shouting the loudest ;-D14:43
DocScrutinizerit worked so far14:43
DocScrutinizerproblem is it's not visible to the outside14:43
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teotwakiso, who cares?14:43
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teotwakiHow long has CSSU been going now? 2 years?14:44
merlin1991teotwaki: manly tmo ;)14:44
DocScrutinizerivgalvez did, teotwaki14:44
teotwakiCSSU has been visible for anyone who looked hard enough14:44
teotwakiYet, nobody has really been that involved14:44
teotwakiSo fuck 'em14:44
DocScrutinizerCSSU is visible, any "TSG" is not14:44
DocScrutinizerso ivgalvez comes in and happily redefines the purpose and meaning of CSSU14:45
DocScrutinizerassuming CSSU is owned by "community"14:45
teotwakioh, and by the way, fucking BioWare... It's a bloody public holiday in France, and they've decided to shut down the servers from 9AM till 1PM.14:45
jogaserver needs a holiday too?14:45
jogain .fi the railway company has a webshop that is closed at night14:46
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teotwakiI got an intern for a couple of months14:47
teotwakiAt some point, he went "I'll just reboot this server, yar?"14:47
teotwaki"Wait, what server?", his reply "I dunno, fr-102...<servername>"14:47
teotwakiThe kid was about to reboot a production server which was serving just over a thousand voip communications14:48
SpeedEvilFor any particular reason?14:48
teotwakiSpeedEvil: he wanted to see if his changes worked14:49
teotwakihe didn't do his full two months14:49
DocScrutinizernothing compared to rebooting a CIM production server and cause 1500 workers having a looong coffee break14:49
SpeedEvilMy brother shut down a factory in mexico for the day.14:50
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: considering every one of those conversations was with a callcentre agent, I'm not so sure :P14:50
DocScrutinizeraaah yes14:50
DocScrutinizeralmost same then14:50
teotwakialso, fun fact14:50
teotwakiwe hired a new guy in the production team14:51
teotwakihe was checking some traffic routing, to see how our network was laid out14:51
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teotwakihe didn't understand why calls that arrived in Paris went through our London, Madrid and Milan datacentres before going back to Paris.14:51
teotwakiAnd we wondered why he had such massive bandwidth bills.14:52
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DocScrutinizerwell, what's the punch line?15:23
teotwakiDocScrutinizer: incoming call: paris, outpoint, paris15:23
DocScrutinizerprobably your network actually shouldn't route trffic once around the globe15:23
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DocScrutinizerso the guy discovered a poor config of your routing?15:24
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lardmanhi chaps15:34
lardmanwhat are the thoughts re the Tizen dev devices?15:34
* lardman wonders if Samsung will become more Linux friendly with their other devices too15:34
GeneralAntillesTizen is hilarious.15:35
GeneralAntillesThose are my thoughts.15:36
lardmanhey GAN, long time no see, I hope you're well15:36
* DocScrutinizer moos at GeneralAntilles15:36
GeneralAntillesWell enough.15:36
GeneralAntillesAnything new and exciting in the world, lardman?15:36
lardmanThe one positive is that it actually has some devices at least in dev-only mode15:36
DocScrutinizerhi lardman15:36
* RST38h_ wonders if Samsung will become the only smartphone manufacturer other than Apple15:37
GeneralAntillesRST38h_, seems unlikely.15:37
lardmanGeneralAntilles: daughter now 8 months old, still not sleeping, but very happy otherwise (her parents slightly less so until caffeine has taken effect ;))15:37
lardmanhi Doc15:37
MohammadAGMoo lardman & GeneralAntilles15:38
* GeneralAntilles sneezes, coughs, and chokes.15:38
lardmanhi MohammadAG15:38
GeneralAntillesWhy does the sick always come on when you get time off.15:38
DocScrutinizerg'nite johnboy, errr hi MohammadAG15:39
GeneralAntillesIs everybody going to watch the Tizen stream today?15:39
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, lol, don't date yourself.15:39
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: because when you have time off you drink to excess?15:40
GeneralAntillesHehe. No, that's only during conferences. :P15:40
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: (why does the sick...) there's a scientific explanation for that, around corticoids ceated when under stress15:40
MohammadAGHi DocScrutinizer, been here for a while :p15:41
DocScrutinizerthe opposite but similar effect causes pregnant women never catching the flu15:41
MohammadAGPunchline, get pregnant15:42
lardmanyeah but there's a downside at the end of the 9 months ;)15:42
lardmancatching flu that is, not having a baby who doesn't sleep :D15:43
MohammadAGGet pregnant again15:43
lardmanhow much caffeine is considered dangerous.....?15:44
DocScrutinizeryou'll know when it starts getting dangerous ;-)15:45
GeneralAntillesCaffeine turns me into a maniac.15:45
lardmanhmm, I see Tizen is HTML5 only, no Qt, on EFL, urgh15:45
GeneralAntillesSoo, very little.15:45
GeneralAntilleslardman, yeah, thusly the hilarity.15:45
lardmanGeneralAntilles: better get in training for when you have a baby15:45
MohammadAGI hate coffee15:45
lardmanGeneralAntilles: the one bonus being that one will hopefully have a device with a fully working kernel + drivers15:46
GeneralAntilleslardman, yeah, we'll see. ;)15:46
* DocScrutinizer wonders how *the baby* manages to stay awake all the time without caffeine15:46
lardmanvia her mother?15:46
lardmanno, she does sleep lots, just wakes up every couple of hours15:46
lardmanwhich makes for pretty broken sleep for the rest of us15:46
MohammadAGTranquilizer :p15:47
MohammadAGNot for the baby though15:47
Termanalardman, what lesson have we learned today? Never leave your child with anyone from #maemo15:47
lardmanTermana: I think that was a given though really ;)15:48
DocScrutinizeryeah, you can't start soon enough to make yiur kids get used to psychopharmaca15:48
GeneralAntillesTermana, stating the obvious.15:48
GeneralAntillesFigments of lardman's imagination make terrible sitters.15:48
MohammadAGAlso, don't leave your kids unattended on #maemo15:48
MohammadAGKick Termana15:48
MohammadAGHmm, I wonder what iOS emojis look like on irc15:49
TermanaI think there is still a question no one has answered. Will it blend?15:50
* GeneralAntilles contemplates breakfast.15:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: spark gap?15:50
MohammadAGThose are two arrows for me15:51
* GeneralAntilles flees to the kitchen.15:51
* DocScrutinizer does same, for preparing a nice cup of tea15:51
* DocScrutinizer *yawn*15:52
lardmanI just get a little square thingie15:52
lardmanno need for any characters above code 127 in my book15:52
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* DocScrutinizer curses D-Link DIR61515:57
GeneralAntillesIRC Chatter has to be quit and restarted to reconnect15:58
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, running openwrt? :>15:59
DocScrutinizerthis rev is not supported15:59
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DocScrutinizerHAH (OT, DIR615 hw-rev:D3)
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: ^^16:39
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: thanks for making me check again16:39
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, heh nw, though if your version is D3, its noted on openwrt as supported via manual build only16:42
psycho_oreoserr mostly supported :)16:43
psycho_oreosI stand corrected, though I can't read much German I suppose DD-WRT would probably have better support than openwrt for that specific hardware16:43
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k273hi guys18:22
k273what is the use of /usr/lib/trackerd anyway?18:22
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chem|stk273: it is indexing all "user"-files like images and audio18:23
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k273I see chem|st18:25
chem|stk273: after a reboot or messing with your sd card or exporting USBmassstorage it will start tracker-indexer and eat your device for a while18:25
k273so it's normally taking 99 percent cpu use and 15 ram use for every boot18:25
k273thanks a lot chem|st18:25
chem|stk273: just dont boot!18:25
k273eat the device is half of the problem18:25
k273it eats the battery also18:26
k273lol ch18:26
k273lol chem|st18:26
chem|stk273: booting does that too18:26
chem|stk273: your device offline and idle for 8 hours is some about one bootup18:27
chem|stthis includes trackerd eating your device for >10seconds at boot18:28
k273I see18:28
chem|stso do not reboot if not necessary18:28
k273sadly it's necessary to change my battery every some hours or so18:29
chem|stonce in a while restarting hildon-home might be neccessary18:29
chem|stk273: what are you doing?18:29
k273just because my usb/charger port broke18:29
k273restarting hildon-home thru terminal?18:29
chem|stok I see18:30
chem|styeah, I setup a script doing that18:30
chem|stit is still eating up RAM after a while, without any 3rdparty widgets18:31
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k273cool, chem|st18:34
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k273thanks for the info, chem|st18:44
DocScrutinizerk273: you can instruct tracker to not do this re-indexing when on battery18:44
DocScrutinizeror simply reduce the amount of CPU it allocates18:45
DocScrutinizerthere are some screws to adjust, in tracker config18:45
cehtehan some glitches :)18:46
cehtehiirc it ignored the 'not on battery' settings here .. also it wont stop when you unplug from charger18:46
DocScrutinizerhas some bugs, yeah18:46
k273DocScrutinizer: cehteh: I see18:47
DocScrutinizersome of those should be fixed in latest CSSU-T, courtesy javispedro18:47
cehtehits long ago i gave up on it :)18:47
DocScrutinizerat least the ignore-"ignore" bug18:47
cehtehwell the device is meanwhile stable enough that i dont have to reboot daily so tracker runs rarely18:48
DocScrutinizerI can see how it hurts when you swap battery18:48
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cehtehneed dual-battery phone :)18:50
cehteh5 nines smartphone :P18:50
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k273need n900 with 12 cell laptop batt XD18:53
cehtehreliable hotswap would be fine already18:54
cehteh(i mean official, not doc's hack)18:54
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chem|stcehteh: cigs back would be enough for me...18:56
k273how much more time do maemo community will support n900? if for years ahead, I can see myself buying maybe 2 or 3 more used n90018:56
cehtehcommunity is possibly not the problem .. of course the updates will come slower and slower18:57
chem|stk273: most of the cool stuff doesn't need anything... so go ahead and buy another one!18:57
cehtehbut with nokia bankrupt next months the server might just become switched off :P18:57
k273very true, chem|st18:58
chem|stcehteh: everything is mirrored18:58
chem|stsomeone has it on his harddrive I would assume!18:58
chem|stI should just mirror it for good...18:59
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k273gotta go guys, thanks for the help!19:59
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DocScrutinizercehteh: you're aware of CSSU?20:22
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: have it installed, but didnt tried to reconfigure trackerd for 1.5 years20:49
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freemangordonPali, you may want to install lxde in kubuntu, it is as fast as maemo, unbelieveable20:58
Palifreemangordon, ok20:58
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freemangordonPali, have in mind you have to enable universe repo in /etc/apt/sources.list20:59
PaliI know kubuntu, I'm using it for 6 years :)20:59
freemangordonok, ok :)21:00
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TofeHi !21:06
TofeI wondered, what do people usually use to take screenshots on the N900 ?21:06
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TofeIs there a builtin shortcut ?21:07
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fizzieCtrl-shift-P, isn't it?21:08
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merlin1991fizzie: yep21:10
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ShadowJKheh, bluetooth ad2p with simultaneous wifi is pretty tragic21:10
Tofethanks !21:11
ShadowJKseems to cut out when afh is reconfigured21:13
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ShadowJK.. and also if there's any nontrivial amount of wifi traffic21:18
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Paliis bluetooth a2dp apt-x codec supported on linux?21:45
PaliShadowJK, do you know someting about apt-x?21:46
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's 'coexistence'22:53
DocScrutinizerI never wrapped my head around prioritisation in hw-coexistence22:54
DocScrutinizerI'd guess - also from what you said - that WLAN simply mutes BT22:55
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you should be able find details in WLAN chip's datasheet, if that's available somewhere meanwhile. Also in BT chip's22:57
DocScrutinizeror maybe it simply doesn't work on N900, due to one wire routing into a parallel universe22:58
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ltltoutltclaetDocScrutinizer: We should install exherbo on a N90023:05
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ShadowJKSomeone called an N900 autoanswered while on bluetooth? wtf23:25
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ShadowJKa coworker has same headset23:36
ShadowJKwith a symbian phone23:36
ShadowJKreally shows how inferior N900's phone capabilities are,23:36
Sicelono setting on N900 for auto-answer?23:36
MohammadAGnot by default23:37
ShadowJKi think I must've hit answer by accident when picking phone out of pocket to figure out why music stopped23:38
ShadowJKthe symbian phone seems much better at this23:39
ShadowJKhe can push button on headset, say "messages", and it starts reading sms23:39
ShadowJKand even saying "web" works23:39
ShadowJKimpressively voice recog works in 100dB ambient noise23:40
Sicelopersonally i never understood why there was so much hate for symbian. :\23:41
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* Sicelo pats his Nokia N-Gage, with a download manager supporting resume, and other goodies :P23:43
ShadowJKit does a few specific things well23:47
ShadowJKbut if you want to add stuff or write stuff for it, it's like Nokia and Symbian are saying NO! and smacking you in the face with a slice of lemon wrapped around a tungsten brick23:48
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Siceloyou mean now? or before?23:52
ShadowJKdon't know about now, but atleast in S60 days23:53
ShadowJK(before they rebranded it as plain  symbian)23:54
ShadowJK(and then after that they rebranded as Nokia Anna/Nokia Belle)23:54
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Sicelogotcha. there was some creative stuff going though in the S60 days. and i really tend to agree with those who feel that S80 shouldn't have been killed at the time it was killed.23:55
ShadowJKBut still, even today things like Openvpn on even N9 seem problematic, let alonr on Symbian23:55
ShadowJKon Nokia symbian phones you get "Mobile VPN", which of course is incompatible with everything else and requires hugely expensive servers23:55
Arkenoithe problem with s80/s60 switch was that all keyboard shortcuts were killed among with s80, s60 was primarily targeted for 12-key phones and nothing was done to fill the gap23:56
Siceloyeah, my 9300i had that. and some BlackBerry stuff, which i never used23:56
Arkenoifirst problem23:56
Arkenoisecond problem is that s80 was open system and backup was just filesystem image23:56
Sicelohmm, how's that a problem?23:57
Arkenoifor s60, there were futile attempts to "protect" the device from its owner and the first obvious result was that backups were all messed up23:57
ShadowJKI vaguely remember that one of the most popular apps on S60 had to hold a community fundraiser so that the devwlopers could afford the fees and costs of keeping their app installable on phones23:57
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SiceloShadowJK: that started with version 3 iirc.. that's why i never wanted, or even got to own a symbian device with S60v3 or higher23:58
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ShadowJKYeah I only had S60v3 phones23:59
Siceloah. :)23:59

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