IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-05-07

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MohammadAGchem|st, I think it's better this thread gets closed
DocScrutinizerOT: haha
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bennypr0fanehello, I have a problem with kernel configuration. I get "not found" for kernel-config commands00:20
bennypr0faneI'm running kp5000:21
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bennypr0fanejust installed kernel-power-settings 0.1400:22
bennypr0faneI wanted to check the configuration and save QCPUfreq settings00:22
* DocScrutinizer sighs, shrugs, turns away00:23
* bennypr0fane is wondering whether away from him or the world00:24
DocScrutinizerfrom anything smelling like OC00:24
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bennypr0fanewell am I at least allowed to talk about it by now?00:25
bennypr0faneOr is it still customary in here to get bounced just for asking about it?00:26
DocScrutinizeryou know why both kernel-power ans kp-settings are still around? Because each devel could point at the other app being the one causing damage to your device00:26
bennypr0fane...about my question?00:27
bennypr0fane(the last one)00:27
freemangordonkernal-config show?00:27
bennypr0faneI was asking whether I'm allowed to ask about this topic00:28
bennypr0faneor it will get me banned to do so00:28
freemangordonDon't think so00:28
bennypr0faneI was also called names last times00:28
bennypr0fanefor no reason00:28
bennypr0fane*last time00:29
bennypr0faneso will it do damage to my device if I *show* the curretn configuration?00:29
freemangordondo (as root) kernel-config show00:30
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bennypr0faneok, it was sudo00:30
bennypr0faneit didn't think of that bc output was just "not found"00:31
freemangordonbennypr0fane, no it is "root", and after getting # - kernel-config show00:32
bennypr0faneI thought it was supposed to give me a hint that I needed to be root00:32
bennypr0fanethe thing of when sudo is necessary and when it's not still eludes me sometimes00:33
bennypr0fanehowever, I'm pretty sure people use kernel-power not just for oc'ing00:34
bennypr0fanechanging subject: I can't get a GPS fix, ever - no matter in what application. Any hints where I might start to look for the problem?00:39
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freemangordonbennypr0fane, change sever to
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bennypr0faneis that in the general settings?00:43
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peterbjornxgps server?00:52
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bennypr0fanestill can't seem to get a fix...00:56
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bennypr0fanebtw freemangordon, are there plans for building a portrait virtual keyboard into CSSU?00:57
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bennypr0faneyay! my gps is back, finally!00:59
* spark666 is happy whit the new kernel and tweaks ! :D01:00
MrPinguNo there aren't plans AFAIK, however I would love to see a good portrait vkb...01:00
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bennypr0faneMrPingu you sure aren't the only one01:01
bennypr0faneI would even content myself with just getting an answer for once, even if it's just "no, not gonna happen", it would be better than just getting ignored...01:03
* bennypr0fane also loves the new kernel specifically because the bluetooth headset issue is finally taken care of01:03
spark666bennypr0fane: and i overclocked it to 85001:04
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MrPingubenny0fane , l I think I can answer that. I believe I read somewhere that it won't happen.01:05
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bennypr0faneanother question been bothering me: is there going to be real portrait mode for all the stock apps in CSSU?01:05
bennypr0faneMrPingu where was thaT?01:05
spark666i hate the protrait ways of cssu,i wish i could have rotation again just in faster app manager contacts and phone calls oohh and browser01:06
spark666i hate when my desktop rotates01:06
bennypr0fanereal portrait mode at least in Conversations would be awesome. And media Player, maps... (oh wait that's closed source - again!)01:06
bennypr0fanespark666 but you can, it's easy01:07
bennypr0fanejust lock autorotate in CSSU settings01:07
spark666bennypr0fane: teach me :D01:07
spark666thats what i do lol01:07
spark666but it blcks all01:07
spark666i want just the default ones to rotate like in default pr 1.3 :P01:08
bennypr0faneu mean it also keeps phone and browser form roatating?01:09
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spark666yes if i use the status bar shortcut to block rotation01:09
bennypr0fanetry power button menu>cssu features01:10
bennypr0faneif there isn't a sinple way to set it in there, I'm sure there is a way to make it the way you want it01:11
spark666i have just 2 options for rotation there,the axis and for apps01:11
spark666none for desktops and stuffs,or to choose what to rotate and what not01:12
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bennypr0faneif under "rotation" you set "applications" to "default", it should do as you want01:13
spark666its set to default and still my desktop rotates and other things i dont want01:14
bennypr0fanehave you searched the forums?01:15
MrPinguIt's a gconf value that needs to be changed01:15
MrPingu*My internet is cactus01:15
spark666MrPingu: humm didnt think about that01:15
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MrPinguspark666, I believe it's covered on the cssu features wiki ;)01:16
MrPinguBtw which flavour are you on? T or S?01:17
spark666yes MrPingu but i tought that are by default for pr1.301:17
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spark666i like bleeding edge :D01:18
MrPinguSecond last item from the link bennypr0fane gave ;)01:19
bennypr0faneDisable rotation of desktop     gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/desktop_orientation_lock -t bool true01:19
MrPinguMe too, but I don't like unstable software01:19
bennypr0fanespark666 best go through the whole page, it should give you a solution for all rotation settings01:20
MrPinguHowever I don't mind testing so every now and then and I know my way round so I am on testing too ;)01:20
spark666humm MrPingu what linux distro u use?01:20
MrPinguhehe backtrack :P01:21
MrPinguRunned 2 months ubuntu but I didn't like it at all01:21
spark666i dont like ubuntu either01:22
spark666i test them all i guess01:22
MrPinguNow I am at OSX, and damn what a strange OS...01:22
spark666the most beautifull was arch linux and now im on gentoo that rocks :d01:22
spark666osx its nice but to closed source :P01:23
bennypr0faneomg arch linux did that not take you forever to set up?01:23
spark666arch it fast it has binary pkgs01:23
peterbjornxgentoo is slow when installing01:23
peterbjornxits a source distro01:23
MrPinguI had problems with arch, gave me troubles at post-install01:24
spark666it takes a while to installdrivers and all couse you have to do it whit ur hand from console01:24
peterbjornxi always used SuSE01:24
ThreeMmint :)01:24
peterbjornxbut current opensuse just sucks01:24
MrPinguNo OSX is kinda clumsy with windows01:24
ThreeMmint debian edition01:24
spark666MrPingu: anytime you want i can give you a hand01:24
ThreeMand im happy with it01:24
bennypr0fanegotta say the wiki section for cssu is a bit out of date01:25
MrPinguAfter my Exams I will have a play again with arch01:25
* bennypr0fane uses bodhi linux on laptop01:25
spark666ThreeM: that was my fav mint :X01:25
MrPingulast week I loaded a usb with live OpenSuSe ;)01:25
ThreeMruns pretty good atm01:25
bennypr0faneand SUSE on desktop, got really frustrateds01:25
bennypr0faneI want things to just work out of the bpox as mcuh as possible01:26
bennypr0fanenot the case with suse01:26
MrPinguStill I thing I am indoctrinated by windows :P01:26
spark666for me it matters very much to be in control and to learn from it01:26
MrPingu* I think01:26
bennypr0faneMrPingu what you mean by indoctrinated01:26
MrPinguThat I am still most productive at windows and I think it's still the best desktop OS01:27
MrPingu(if you reinstall it every 6 months)01:28
peterbjornxi gotta admit, my primary OS is windows too01:28
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peterbjornxjust cause else i'd have to use mac osx01:28
ThreeMwinodws 7 is my secondary os, just to load some games and for videoediting01:28
bennypr0faneWindows is just more mature in office productivity01:28
bennypr0faneand you do get much more "works-ootb"01:28
MrPinguYeah and as I am still at highschool and we are forced to use microsoft office01:29
spark666do i need to reboot my phone after that gconf command?lol01:29
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bennypr0fanespark666 not if it's not in the wiki01:29
MrPinguonly restart hildon-desktop I think01:29
spark666now it doesnt have any effect01:30
spark666so better ill restart01:30
MrPinguOSX offers office too, but I just don't like it. Always fighting with lost windows :P01:30
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MrPinguWindows getting behind other windows, not minimalizing01:31
bennypr0faneYeah, just that the most advanced Office solution for OSX is MS Office01:31
bennypr0faneThat's the great thing about Linuxes, you can have exactly your way01:32
MrPinguOnly, it takes time to set up...01:32
bennypr0faneyou can just make the desktop behave as you want it to01:32
SpeedEvilbennypr0fane: As long as you never update01:32
bennypr0faneSpeedEvil update what?01:32
SpeedEvilbennypr0fane: For example, ubuntu's latest UI change01:33
peterbjornxjsut apt-get install gnome-desktop01:33
FIQ|n900depends on your distro really01:33
bennypr0fanePrecise Unity is supposed to be much improved01:33
peterbjornxand use gnome classic :)01:33
ThreeMi like gnome-shell :)01:33
peterbjornx*apt-get install gnome01:33
bennypr0faneI'm going to give Unity a chance01:34
SpeedEvilAt some point, the deprecated shell tends to stop working (well)01:34
MrPinguWhy has the menu for launching an app have to cover more that 3/4 of the screen?01:34
SpeedEvilEvery single interface has to be designed to be used by a 3 year-old on a 2" screen01:35
MrPinguGive me just the small startbutton and a text menu haha01:35
FIQ|n900also is it just me or are the buttons in youtube's player absent on N900 since a few days back?01:35
MrPinguIdk, I use cutetube01:36
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spark666didnt worked :(01:38
spark666told you that article its deprecated :P01:38
FIQ|n900it would be nice if the terminal somehow remembered your commands in a way that made it possible to tabcomplete more than just the command (i.e. the params as well)01:38
infoboti heard jrtools is
MrPingugconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false01:40
bennypr0fanespark666 I think you need the changed settings before you restart01:40
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bennypr0fane*need to save the01:40
spark666in cssu setting gui?01:40
bennypr0fanein terminal01:41
MrPinguOr you can install gconf editor to have a gui01:41
MrPinguIt's a bit like regedit01:42
spark666i know to use that command,but how to save it?01:42
MrPinguI told ya, been using windows too much XD01:42
spark666lol :P01:42
spark666brb to make a coffee01:42
MrPinguNeed some sleep01:42
MrPinguinstead of coffee, atleast that would be better01:43
bennypr0fanespark666 Applying the changes to transitions.ini01:43
bennypr0faneSome of these changes (taskswitcher, zaxisrotation, forcerotation) apply as soon as you save the file, while others (blurless) require you to restart hildon-desktop. You can do so by turning the phone off and on again, or running as root:01:43
bennypr0fanekillall hildon-desktop01:43
bennypr0faneThis will kill the hildon-desktop process, and it will be automatically restarted with the changed settings loaded and applied. Be sure not to "killall hildon-desktop" too often in a row (like several times in one minute), or the system will restart (nothing dangerous, though - just an annoyance).01:43
bennypr0fanequoting from Wiki01:43
DocScrutinizerecho -e '#!/bin/sh\ngconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false" >/usr/local/bin/lockCSSUrotation; chmod +x /usr/local/bin/lockCSSUrotation01:44
bennypr0faneMrPingu I'm actually going for coffee01:44
DocScrutinizerspark666: ^^^01:44
MrPinguWell I am going for sleep. only 5 and half hours left before I need to get up -.-01:44
peterbjornxlucky you01:45
bennypr0faneMrPingu then you better01:45
peterbjornxwith the amount of homework i have left i dont think im going to get any sleep01:45
bennypr0fanegood night01:45
DocScrutinizeron cssu it shouldn't reboot the phone anymore01:46
DocScrutinizerI think I made this patched01:46
MrPinguhaha peterbjornx, I know that kind of pressure :P01:46
MrPinguwell, bye!01:46
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* DocScrutinizer idly ponders to do for (i=0; i<6; i++); do killall hildon-desktop; sleep 3; done;01:47
bennypr0fanec u guys, have a good one!01:48
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: what's CSSU supposed to do now when HD keeps quitting? some fb shell?01:49
DocScrutinizerooh wait, we don't even need HD to open osso-xterm01:50
DocScrutinizerso I suppose it should enter a terminal when you kill hildon-desktop too frequently01:50
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spark666why i have the unknown at the end?02:30
spark666 $ uname -a02:30
spark666Linux Nokia-N900 #1 PREEMPT Sun Mar 18 20:10:56 EET 2012 armv7l unknown02:30
FIQ|n900I have a feeling this is CSSU-related02:31
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LaoLang_coolHi, I'm searching for xsel for maemo but without luck, any hint?02:37
LaoLang_coolI've found it before...02:37
LaoLang_coolBut I can't recall where it is02:37
LaoLang_coolok, sorry for noise, I found it at :)02:38
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chem|stMohammadAG: closed... but you do not really support something like whatsapp?12:06
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chem|stlol the starting post is wonderful...12:12
chem|st"Whats different about whats app is that it allows >1 person to be involved in a conversation" thats just like apple claiming they brought videocalls to smartphones...12:14
MohammadAGchem|st: I may not support it but I certainly use it12:16
chem|stI read the Terms sometime ago... and if they didn't change nothing to use or even support for me12:18
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spark666hey guys12:34
spark666i ssh my laptop,and i messed up my n900 terminal resolution12:34
spark666the font looks to big12:34
spark666how can i revert it back12:34
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MohammadAGchem|st: Whats wrong with them?12:37
psycho_oreosspark666, tried pressing the volume down button on the N900 whilst having X Terminal open?12:39
spark666psycho_oreos: no i didnt :P let me try12:40
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MohammadAGShort circuits in physics suck12:40
spark666psycho_oreos: tnx man it works,didnt knew about that option12:41
psycho_oreosheh nw12:41
spark666and last night i had a error at boot,something like "malfuntion the device will shutdown in 10s"12:42
spark666im not sure if that were exactly the words but you get the idea12:42
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psycho_oreosthere's no better solution than recalling what you did last that made the device prompt those words12:43
chem|stMohammadAG: on a S60 device it showed due payment will be required after 12month of usage12:43
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psycho_oreosit sounds like you're either messing with some of the upstart scripts or something12:44
spark666psycho_oreos: messing a bit whit cssu features and a couple of reboots :P12:44
spark666and i remeber before that,the power kernel didnt loaded proper12:44
chem|stMohammadAG: and it is the 1mth app using one and the same technology to do what? sending texts...12:44
psycho_oreosspark666, heh well one of the CSSU things you did might have triggered it albeit rare but it is possible12:45
psycho_oreosspark666, if power kernel didn't load properly, then that would usually cause bootloops or forced reboot imo12:45
spark666but does it require a reflash ,or was a "once in a lifetinme problem"?12:45
spark666no it works fine i didnt had that error again...yet :P12:46
psycho_oreosits hard to say, though if its constantly showing up that error, then a reflash to boot is required12:47
spark666it happened only once till now,i hope it wont happen again12:48
MohammadAGchem|st: Ok and? It's clear whatsapp is free for one year12:48
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DocScrutinizerspark666: you shouldn't overclock or undervolt or use SmartReflex12:49
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nothing in life is for free12:51
MohammadAGDeath is12:51
DocScrutinizerarguably not in life ;-P12:52
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MohammadAGOr a blown tire to assist in that12:52
DocScrutinizerohnoes, a twitter URL12:54
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DocScrutinizerI should install a counter for time and traffic I wasted for showing that stupid bird an blank page12:54
DocScrutinizerFSCKU twitter12:55
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topobotwhats series 40?12:55
DocScrutinizersomething unrelated to topic of this channel anyway12:56
topobotis n900 part of series 40s?12:56
MohammadAGSymbian feature phone OS12:56
topobotis it possible to develop  with  apis like nokia maps or location services on maemo?12:56
ShadowJKseries 40 is not symbian12:57
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MohammadAGShadowJK: afaik it's branded as that12:58
MohammadAGOr not12:59
ShadowJKI challenge you to show it12:59
MohammadAGChallenge lost12:59
ShadowJKS30 is dumbphone Nokia os, S40 is feature/dumbphone nokia os, S60 is Symbian "smartphone" os13:00
DocScrutinizerfor whatever metrics of smartphone13:01
MohammadAGSeries 90 was called hildon? O_o13:02
DocScrutinizerwell, I guess it still outsmarts winp713:02
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: there's been an *awesome* story, if only I had bookmarked the link13:03
ShadowJKwas s90 the touchphone thing they killed in 2002?13:03
KaadlajkDocScrutinizer: MohammadAG:
DocScrutinizerYES! this one13:03
DocScrutinizerthanks Kaadlajk13:04
chem|stShadowJK: S60 is just the userinterface13:04
chem|sts40 is an ui with its own os13:04
topobotso s40 is not smartphone?13:05
DocScrutinizernot exactly13:06
topobotwhats the difference between dumbphone and smartphone?13:06
DocScrutinizerand maemo is not s<anything>13:06
DocScrutinizerlook at the names! ;-)13:06
DocScrutinizergenerally you might say: dumbphones don't have apps to install13:07
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DocScrutinizerbtw it sems 'featurephone' is the accepted term13:08
DocScrutinizer~dict smartphone13:09
infobotcould not find definition for smartphone13:09
chem|sttopobot: s40 is a "feature phone" ui, capable of more than texting and calling, like JavaApps and other stuff, a smartphone is more likely somemore advanced as the name tells, nowadays dumbphones are any which do not count into smartphones13:09
DocScrutinizer~wiki smartphone13:09
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: " A 'smartphone' is a mobile phone built on a mobile computing platform, with more advanced computing ability and connectivity than a feature phone.{{cite web |url= |title=Smartphone |date= |publisher="Phone Scoop" |accessdate=2011-12-15}}{{cite web |url= |title=Feature Phone |date= ...13:09
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DocScrutinizertopobot: anyway, as it seems it needs to get mentioned, N900 is a mobile computing platform based on linux. Some even claim "N900 is NOT a phone"13:13
lartza_computer with a gsm chip13:13
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topobotwhy they dont still produce that kind of phones?13:14
topobotmobile computing platforms13:14
DocScrutinizerYEAH WHY, NOKIA, WHY!!!13:14
infobotmethinks nit is Nokia Internet Tablet13:15
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DocScrutinizerseries of nit: 770, N800, N810, N90013:16
DocScrutinizerN900 came with phone functions13:16
DocScrutinizerstill it's tagged NIT13:16
DocScrutinizerNokia obviously decided to discontinue NIT series13:17
DocScrutinizerthe huge betrayal on community13:18
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* DocScrutinizer doesn't want a friggin N9 "smartphone", wnats A NIT!13:19
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dhbiker*cough* N9 sux :P13:19
dhbikerseriously .. i rather use my N90013:20
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psycho_oreosat least you should deliberately type N9 with lowercase n to signify its insignificance to legacy NIT series13:21
DocScrutinizerhow's that ^ ?13:22
psycho_oreosheh its also greyed out, you used colouring? :)13:22
psycho_oreos meh13:22
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* DocScrutinizer sets up a autocorrection regex s/[nN]9([^0-9])/n9\1/13:25
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MohammadAGAwesome article13:31
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KaadlajkMohammadAG: I especially liked that when I read the article couple of people passing by said that they worked on that Hildon device :-)13:34
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: reading the whole article it sounds like elop is payed for shutting down nokia for good ^^13:37
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DocScrutinizeralways been clear13:37
DocScrutinizerand he did a good job so far13:37
chem|stsome psion executive with a lot of money getting revenge^^13:38
chem|stor alike13:38
MohammadAGI liked the part where they worried about the competition not being able to catch uo13:38
MohammadAGKaadlajk: Oh, you're a Nokian?13:39
KaadlajkMohammadAG: nope, I was a subcontractor13:39
chem|stthey coud have killed of iphones in the year revealed but feared change...13:39
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chem|stthey coud have killed of iphones in the year revealed but feared change...13:40
MohammadAGNokia needs new management13:41
chem|stand a driving marketing campaign for n950s and n9s, and successors for both in 2012Q413:42
MohammadAGAlso, I need to start on my hooking platform today13:42
MohammadAGBut I can't figure out where hildon does the ecec13:42
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MohammadAGThe N9 was dead before it was announced13:44
MohammadAGNokia needs Maemo 7, even if it's just harmattan13:44
MohammadAGRelease a quad core 2GB RAM device with that, do marketing wisely, get companies developing for the platform13:45
MohammadAGAnd you've gained your spot again13:45
dhbikercouldnt agree more13:46
MohammadAGI know the specs aren't needed, but apparently people are buying according to what's on paper13:46
MohammadAGFYI this could be done without Nokia13:47
MohammadAGBut the getting developers working on the platform would be impossible13:47
DocScrutinizersee gta04.org13:47
MohammadAGCommercial developers*13:47
DocScrutinizernot only that13:47
MohammadAGMass production13:48
DocScrutinizerthe drama in all that: Nokia itself has no more competence for doing it, they fired all those who were capable to pull such thing13:48
MohammadAGThey can help themselves back DocScrutinizer13:49
MohammadAGYou can rehire people13:49
DocScrutinizernot easy13:49
MohammadAGThe main problem is if they failed this plan13:49
MohammadAGThey're gone, for good13:49
DocScrutinizerit's still a little niche thing13:50
MohammadAGWhat is?13:50
DocScrutinizerin metrics of Nokia capitalization13:50
MohammadAGNokia's as close to being dead as anyone can be13:51
DocScrutinizerthey literally have billions on their coffe cash13:51
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MohammadAGThe only thing keeping them alive is licensing13:51
DocScrutinizernope, not really13:51
MohammadAGWell it's not WP7 for sure13:51
DocScrutinizerthey can fast for years and still are alive13:51
DocScrutinizerbillions! 10^913:52
MohammadAGThen they can get themselves back where they were13:52
DocScrutinizerEUR, not yen or lira13:52
MohammadAGProblem is firing elop is bad now13:52
MohammadAGMarket-wise, stocks and stockholders would suffer13:52
DocScrutinizermeh, impossible to suffer more13:53
MohammadAGAnd with elop, that Maemo 7 device won't happen13:53
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DocScrutinizerno matter Evilop or not, n9 / meego been a change in paradigm away from NIT towards "dumb smartphone" that basically killed the whole thing for me and some other people13:55
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: Not really, the UI is attractive, have that on a renewed maemo 5 base and its an instant win13:56
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: thing is, everybody seems to be going that way13:56
jacekowskino keyboard13:56
jacekowskijust touchscreen13:56
jacekowskionly samsung tried something different by adding s pen to note13:56
MohammadAGYou can't fsck it13:56
jacekowskiRIM announced new smartphones without keyboard13:56
* dhbiker buys used N900 and freezes it for the future13:57
psycho_oreosapple inspired that idea, and if apple did it right (which they did), they've `revolutionalised' the market13:57
jacekowskiwell, hw keyboard takes up a lot of space13:57
DocScrutinizerdhbiker: hehe, exactly what I'm just doing13:57
jacekowskiwhich could be observed on n90013:57
dhbikerN950 has keyboard too... and its not that extra big13:58
jacekowskiit's size is about the same as size of a brick13:58
psycho_oreoscompared to N950?13:58
jacekowskiand even it's the same shape13:58
MohammadAGjacekowski: The N900 could be much thinner with today's specs13:58
psycho_oreosand what about e7?13:58
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: no, the other way round it's a true statement: vkbd uses a lot of screen space13:58
dhbikerDocScrutinizer: WORD!13:58
jacekowskiwell n950 is n900 on steroids13:58
MohammadAGTrue, but that's up to UI developers to fix13:58
* dhbiker wishes he had one13:58
psycho_oreosand you *can* brick vkbd. I've done that before with n9 and because I have phone lock and no physical keyboard, I was literally screwed13:59
MohammadAGI'm on an iPhone and the keyboard showing never annoyed me13:59
jacekowskiMohammadAG: traitor13:59
jacekowskiMohammadAG: leave the channel13:59
dhbikerjacekowski: damn you... i wanted to write that :(13:59
MohammadAGWhereas on MeeGo and android, I had to close the keyboard to see sth behind it13:59
DocScrutinizerPLUS I *hate* the fingerprints all over the screen14:00
psycho_oreosand don't forget, with vkbd, its entirely up to developers to implement whatever feature they want in the vkbd. You can write a program that prevents users from Copying and Pasting things for instance because there's no functionality implemented in hardware14:00
jacekowskiwell, you can't copy and paste in hw keyboard14:00
jacekowskiunless it's implemented in software14:00
MohammadAGyou can capture ctrl and prevent cp too :p14:01
psycho_oreosnot necessarily, as long as the base UI allows such functionalities to exist14:01
MohammadAGiOS implements copy paste on a library basis14:01
psycho_oreosor well yeah that with hardware keyboard but not all developers would take extra notes in preventing copying and pasting from happening14:01
jacekowskiyeah, but iOS sucks14:01
MohammadAGSo unless you design a new UI toolkit, you can't prevent cp14:01
psycho_oreosyou don't have to look far in n9's shitty browser to see that you can't copy and paste shit inside14:02
MohammadAGjacekowski: I dare to say its better than android14:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I *once* tried texting an SMS on a friend's iPhone. Almost killed the thing, it only survived because it's been a new gadget of my friend and I couldn't decide between smashing it into the wall or rather stomping at it14:02
jacekowskiwho brainwashed you?14:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, swype on my android is OKish14:02
jacekowskiMohammadAG: nothing by apple is OK14:02
jacekowskiMohammadAG: all things apple suck14:03
jacekowskiMohammadAG: you should remember that14:03
chem|stMohammadAG: you are using whatsapp on an iPhone... selfexplanatory14:03
MohammadAGThings change jacekowski14:03
MohammadAGThere are no alternatives14:03
jacekowskihmm, i have to go now14:03
psycho_oreoseven though you have N950 -._14:03
MohammadAGI still use that14:04
MohammadAGAnd still devel for that14:04
MohammadAGBut I need either an iOS or android device for some apps14:04
MohammadAGAnd I find ios way better than android14:04
psycho_oreosand you chose iOS14:04
psycho_oreosindeed ._.14:04
MohammadAGjacekowski: A jailbroken iOS device is different from a stock one14:05
jacekowskiyou have to use itunes to manage14:05
jacekowskito manage it*14:05
MohammadAGThere are tweaks for that14:05
jacekowskii could live with all iOS problems14:05
jacekowskibut itunes14:05
MohammadAGI can go without iTunes for a month14:05
jacekowskiworst piece of shitware you can think of14:05
psycho_oreosdidn't you have to activate iphone with itunes before you can use it?14:05
MohammadAGOr more, PwnTunes can import my songs into the stock iPod app14:05
MohammadAGNo, iOS 514:05
MohammadAGYou don't need iTunes for first start now14:06
dhbikeritunes even supports FLAC ?14:06
MohammadAGNo, ALAC14:06
dhbikermeh.. lame14:06
MohammadAGApple Lossless14:06
dhbikeryeah i know whats ALAC14:07
MohammadAGYou can convert between flac and ALAC without any loss of quality14:07
MohammadAGWhile I would prefer flac tbh, but meh14:07
psycho_oreosand converting ALAC to something else once you lost your original copy of FLAC format?14:07
chem|stwould you mind to stop iTalking? I vomitted already14:07
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: Same as converting flac to something else14:08
MohammadAGBoth are lossless14:08
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* psycho_oreos would so laugh if ALAC is that one way SCMS setup that Sory did awhile ago with their netMD stint and OMG format14:08
dhbikerchem|st: nice... enjoy vomitting more :P14:08
DocScrutinizerchem|st: ++14:08
MohammadAGBoth are open source14:08
psycho_oreosbut of different licensing schemes14:09
MohammadAGOn the subject of ios vs android, I'm surprised everyone likes android more here14:09
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: Apache14:09
dhbikeri dont14:09
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dhbikerandroid is meh14:09
DocScrutinizerfsck andridiot14:09
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psycho_oreosI'd prefer android over iOS anyday but if android wasn't around then I'd prefer iOS over WP14:10
MohammadAGI find jailbreaking a universal iOS version better than continuously looking for roms14:10
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: I mainly prefer one thing14:10
MohammadAGAll iOS devices get all releases at once14:10
DocScrutinizereither I want a proper OS - I go with maemo5. OR I want a consumer-grade device where I have to trade my brain in for geekness - then I'd use iOS.14:10
MohammadAGEveryone around the globe can upgrade to ios 5 at one point14:11
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MohammadAGWhereas ics is still not out for most devices14:11
chem|stpsycho_oreos: I prefer using a dumbphone over any of those 3 and have my netbook glued to my bag again14:11
MohammadAGAnd even for the ones that have ics, upgrading is a pain14:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: ++14:11
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, and they force iOS 4 down people's gullet like they did with their iphone 3G and iphone 3GS users.. and don't forget to block out the excessive noise that iphone owners cringe at their now slow ass performing iphone14:12
chem|stdescent usage and $* power tweaks I get 2 days out of my netbook14:12
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: You can stay on an older version14:12
psycho_oreoschem|st, meh extra luggage.. I hate extra luggage when I've got a proper laptop to boot with (though ancient and I'd rather lug around a newer laptop)14:13
MohammadAGSaving SHSHs is better than looking for a good rom14:13
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, apparently that wasn't the case with iphone 3G and iphone 3GS owners having to face the *forced* update14:13
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MohammadAGiTunes forces you, you can skip that14:13
DocScrutinizerand for "eeeew ma gaad, I neeeed an iPhone because this acme app is not available for anything else" PAH! Either this friggin acme app is available for normal desktop PC then I can run it on N900 as well (given the kind of apps we're discussing here) - or it's a BS app that actually is not available for anything but iPhone then it's not worth bothering14:14
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: Sometimes you need some apps14:14
psycho_oreosand don't forget, whilst apple may highly discourage the use of jailbreaking. It does not necessarily mean that they won't implement anti-jail breaking techniques as they've already filed numerous patents almost a year ago14:14
DocScrutinizerno I don't14:14
MohammadAGLike the app to access my bank account14:14
chem|stpsycho_oreos: I had my netbook with me in my bag before I bought a n900, charging it in the same frequency I charge my n900 now...14:14
MohammadAGLike waze, before it14:14
MohammadAGWas ported14:14
DocScrutinizerif your bank requires their customers to buy an iPhone to manage their account... :-x14:15
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chem|sthaving it as mp3player is fail for sure, but just because of the size...14:15
MohammadAGThey don't, mostly everyone has an iPhone or an android device14:15
MohammadAGI havent seen an N900 for about a year14:16
DocScrutinizer*I* do my bank account management via https://meine.deutsche-bank.de14:16
psycho_oreoschem|st, its still extra luggage to me at the end of the day.. had there been a decent N900 successor (and not the ill fated N950 which was only destined to developers with crippling hardware handicaps) there would've probably been a redundant necessity in one having a netbook for that instance imo14:16
chem|stMohammadAG: I wouldn't trust apple in any terms of security... OSx saves clear-text-passwords next to the secured files...14:16
DocScrutinizerno matter if on PC or N90014:16
chem|stpsycho_oreos: true ;)14:17
MohammadAGchem|st: the n900 did the same at some point14:17
MohammadAGProbably android too14:17
chem|stpsycho_oreos: I am waiting for nokia cutting elops testicles and announcing reopening maemo devel14:17
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MohammadAGKeep on waiting14:18
MohammadAGThat won't happen14:18
psycho_oreoschem|st, I'd say chances of that happening is zilch at this rate.. and before nokia will release anything useful before its death, it'll probably be a shitty ass dumbphone with limited capabilities14:18
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MohammadAGI don't see Nokia getting back on track in less than a year14:18
chem|stpsycho_oreos: it started with reopening device seeding for Qt two weeks ago... qt is only needed for symbian and maemo/meego...14:18
MohammadAGAnd bb14:19
chem|stsry reopening qt devel with device seeding... that way around14:19
flux(device seeding?)14:19
MohammadAG(yeah, what?)14:19
fluxwhat is device seeding?14:19
fluxadding support for new devices?14:20
MohammadAGGiving devices to devels14:20
chem|stflux: there will be some more n950s and n9s for developers14:20
psycho_oreoschem|st, and all three of those platforms that you've mentioned are none other than sinking platforms. symbian is going to get decapitated, maemo/meego faces death via stoning and mockery.. any takers? maybe wp?14:20
fluxoh, they're doing that now again14:20
MohammadAGN950s? You sure?14:20
psycho_oreosdidn't they also hand out that lovely *cough* lumia to devels?14:21
chem|stflux: yeah, quim gil is back and started seeding questions on the maemo list14:21
MohammadAGDeveloping for the N9/50 isn't as fun as it was for the N90014:21
psycho_oreosnot to mention neither the developers nor the end users were standing on the same base as it was with N90014:21
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: That was a gift14:21
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, a gift? lol14:22
MohammadAGThat's what the site said14:22
MohammadAGI can sell it, legally14:22
fluxa friend decided not to start using such a lumia due to the EULA14:22
fluxapparently multiple screens before you get to use the device.14:22
chem|stMohammadAG: some requested more '50s instead of n9s for community prizes after he asked about how to choose devels for seeding14:22
* psycho_oreos imagines people can soon smell the rotting carcass of lumia in a few months time14:23
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: Btw14:23
MohammadAGDeveloping for the N900, I felt like people were interested14:23
chem|stare... still are!14:23
MohammadAGI released a beta for sociality, and the only feedback I got was someone complaining something broke his stock facebook app14:24
DocScrutinizerHARM is a brainkiller14:24
DocScrutinizeractually paegis is14:24
DocScrutinizerand qtm14:24
MohammadAGIt was overclocking, and I spent a page saying ocing is bad and being convinced its not14:24
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, its a different atmosphere back then.. but with harmattan, its not so much the case that the end users and developers are on the exact same level of playing field. Which is ludicrous14:24
chem|stMohammadAG: not true as several people in here replied with "awesome first shot"14:24
MohammadAGSo basically, I didnt get any feedback on the app itself, except from a couple of users14:24
MohammadAGchem|st: Where?14:25
chem|stin here14:25
MohammadAGCan you point me to logs, I wasn't around here back then14:25
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chem|stcannot remember if I said anything about but I remember someone atleast telling "cool"14:25
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MohammadAGpsycho_oreos: That's another thing, the lack of a proper distribution method sucks14:26
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MohammadAGAppsformeego is close to a store14:26
DocScrutinizercould we move it to #harmattan maybe?14:26
chem|stMohammadAG: I had a look myself and it looked promising!14:26
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MohammadAGAnd Nokia store is that14:26
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: he posted on the maemo list as he wants the good old maemo community14:28
DocScrutinizerpretty obviously Nokia planned to earn their money with their OVI/whatever flavour of appstore rather than by selling cool hardware. That's what HARM is all about, from aegis over qtm pseudo-dalvik, to braindead missing repositories for devels14:29
DocScrutinizerthey even stated exactly that being their plans for the future, some time back14:29
DocScrutinizerdidn't pan out, obviously14:29
DocScrutinizerso now they abandoned own ship and hope for a safe passage in some yet to be founded win/M$-ecosystem14:30
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MohammadAGThat's also part our problem14:35
MohammadAGThere's no repo, make one14:36
MohammadAGThen make an app manager14:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, Nokia changed from "we don't need that so we don't support/ship it with maemo5" to "we don't need that so we don't allow it on meego paegis"14:37
DocScrutinizerI prefer the maemo5 paradigm14:38
MohammadAGAegis allows an app manager14:38
MohammadAGThere's fapman, it just needs a UI14:41
DocScrutinizeryayaya, HARM even allows openmode14:42
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jacekowskiaegis apparently can be defeated easitly14:42
jacekowskibecause they use regexps to parse xml14:42
MohammadAGThat's not the point14:42
MohammadAGFor harmattan to have the same community the n900 had we need repos14:43
MohammadAGFor repos to work we need an appmanager14:43
DocScrutinizeryou'd need developers that are brainwashed enough to use a DOA OS to develop on it14:43
DocScrutinizera hostile OS even14:44
Macerhe has a point14:45
Maceror you can use the old kernel for hw compatibility and make simething new14:45
DocScrutinizerI was somewhat sympathetic about HARM - even when neither UI nor hw had any appeal for me - until Evilop announced it will definitely not see any successor14:45
Macerbackported to the.functional maemo kernel and make a new repo14:45
Macerevilop's wp7 phone is awesome ;)14:46
Maceri never understood what prevented the n900 community from taking the backport route14:47
DocScrutinizerbackport what?14:48
Macermer had a good idea... was it the lack of modem functionality14:48
DocScrutinizerfsckng swipe UI?14:48
Macerto make a new os14:48
Maceror new ui14:48
Macerand restructure the base14:48
Macerso it wasnt a dead os14:48
DocScrutinizernfc what you're talking about14:49
chem|stDocScrutinizer: lumia fanatic %~)14:49
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Macerchem|st: yeah.. im sorry.. must be the functional phone talking14:49
chem|stMacer: pls not again14:50
DocScrutinizerN900 has the most excellent voice call quality of any phone I ever used, both on GSM and SIP14:51
DocScrutinizera thing I heard isn't normal for N9 nor hooker14:51
DocScrutinizernor C7 btw14:52
DocScrutinizeror whatsitcalled14:52
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Macerwho uses voice anymore? ;)15:00
MacerMohammadAG: touche15:01
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Guest13819help is meego fully fxnal on N900?15:19
Guest13819wots d drawback?15:19
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Sicelohmm.. south africa :/15:26
Siceloah, no15:27
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: Another thing about harmattan, Fremantle times irc was very helpful, now it's quiet16:35
MohammadAGNo really, I don't see answers for lots of people's questions on #harmattan16:37
MohammadAGWhereas Fremantle times I learned development through answers on irc16:38
MohammadAGOh and hey timeless16:38
DocScrutinizertimeless: ?? heya!16:38
SpeedEvilhey also timeless.16:38
MohammadAGYeah, autocomplete showed his nick when I typed time :p16:39
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DocScrutinizerbtw: (OT)  gta04 eventually with kbd:
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* DocScrutinizer puts his N900 into holster, waves and heads out17:07
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* Sicelo wishes he could get CP-40817:10
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ltltoutltclaetSicelo: Is that a gun?17:19
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Sicelolol ltltoutltclaet.17:31
SiceloNokia CP-40817:31
DocScrutinizer51Nokia now is building guns?17:32
Siceloyou never know. toilet paper started the whole thing, maybe guns will put it all to rest17:34
Siceloanyway, CP-408 is that in-situ carrying case for N90017:34
Sicelobad reviews generally.. but i kinda like it17:35
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LaoLang_coolHow to let n900 access(read/write) pc disk?17:43
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ltltoutltclaetLaoLang_cool: What are you  trying to do?18:06
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timelesshi MohammadAG , DocScrutinizer51 , SpeedEvil18:23
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timelessyes, i was actually in SFO last weekend18:23
timelessi just flew back to Toronto yesterday around noon SFO time18:23
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* timeless got a letter in the mail stating Finland does not have a criminal record for timeless18:26
timelessunfortunately, it also came w/ an invoice... due... tomorrow18:26
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SpeedEvilIf you don't pay, do they update it, and send you another one saying you do?18:36
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timelessthey increase the amount due18:38
timelessand, probably eventually, i suppose18:38
timelessbut, they probably don't send out the new record18:38
timeless... just what a new record would say18:38
* timeless shrugs18:38
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MohammadAGX-Fade, ping18:59
MohammadAGwas the libaux6 package removed18:59
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spark666chromium isnt in repos?22:04
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cuppsyIf I'm planning to dual-boot Maemo/MeeGo on my N900, is it okay to rock power-kernel and U-Boot together, or should I stick with the stock kernel and U-Boot?22:48
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merlin1991cuppsy: it works just fine22:59
merlin1991though you have todo it yourself22:59
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bennypr0faneHello, I have forced rotation enabled in CSSU testing, but screen only rotates in browser, desktop and phone. I installed Theme Customizer yesterday and chose its custom transitions, so I think transitions.ini is used from theme folder. How can I use fast transitions from Theme Customizer but still get apps to rotate?23:19
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DocScrutinizer51cuppsy: aiui pali supports uBoot+stock-kernel23:22
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DocScrutinizer51cuppsy: nevertheless you of course can set up PK and meego as two alternative boot configs, while sticking with stock+uboot23:23
DocScrutinizer51I think uboot and PK both *urgently* need a good comprehensive howro wikipage23:24
DocScrutinizer51howto even23:24
bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer51 I wrote kind of a little howto after I got it working:
DocScrutinizer51pali obviously has a few problems with english not being his native language (no offense, pali)23:25
bennypr0fanewould like some feedback on it anyway23:26
DocScrutinizer51well, I'll  see if I can find time to look at it. Thanks bennypr0fane23:26
bennypr0faneI put it together after reading both UBoot and pk50 threads adn getting some instructions from Pali here23:27
bennypr0faneso if I overlooked anything or got something wrong, please comment23:27
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you looked into NOLO, no? Would you know or be able to look up whether NOLO does *anything* to mtd4: (00200000) ((initfs))?23:33
cuppsyBlinked out for a bit. Thanks to both of you for the responses. Gonna read that link now.23:34
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