| vdv | how can i automount microsd card at boot (n900)? | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| vdv | if i put a script in /etc/event.d/ | 00:02 |
| vdv | with start on started hildon-desktop | 00:02 |
| vdv | is that ok? | 00:02 |
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| Sicelo | hmm .. doesn't that already happen automatically, or i' misunderstanding | 00:03 |
| vdv | only if it's fat32 | 00:03 |
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| akossh | Hello! | 00:15 |
| akossh | I need a little help with N900 | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 00:16 |
| akossh | I'm often change SIM cards | 00:16 |
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| akossh | the problem is, that, when i put in a Ukrainian card, the language switches to Russian, and when put in a Hungarian card, the language switches to English | 00:17 |
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| akossh | how can i disable this behavior, what init scripts needs to modify? | 00:18 |
| akossh | had somebody the same problem? | 00:18 |
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| Vib3 | hmm sendmail says -> sendmail-base: Depends: m4 but it is not installable | 00:27 |
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| Sicelo | d | 00:30 |
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| Vib3 | whats that "m4"-package? | 00:37 |
| Vib3 | can't find it anywhere | 00:37 |
| timoph | macro processor | 00:39 |
| timoph | available in the sdk repo | 00:39 |
| timoph | http://maemo.org/packages/view/m4/ | 00:39 |
| Vib3 | yea, thx | 00:40 |
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| MohammadAG | any Qt gurus around? | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | or C++ in general | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | QObject *providerObject = qobject_cast<QObject*>(provider); returns no matching function for call to 'qobject_cast(AbstractLyricsProvider*&)' | 00:52 |
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| MohammadAG | figured it out | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | I forgot my class wasn't inheriting QObject :3 | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | dynamic_cast obviously fixed it | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | Qt plugins are awesome | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | I made a basic lyrics viewer that's plugin-based | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | basically you have plugins for sites, right now I only have AZLyrics but anything could be implemented and loaded dynamically as .so files | 01:07 |
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| Vib3 | hmm sendmail says now -> | 01:41 |
| Vib3 | /etc/init.d/sendmail start | 01:41 |
| Vib3 | /etc/init.d/sendmail: .: line 35: can't open /lib/init/vars.sh | 01:41 |
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| MohammadAG | here's the plugin based lyrics viewer I was talking about, https://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/lyricsviewer | 01:55 |
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| MrPingu | wasn't matans modified desktop included in cssu? | 01:58 |
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| MohammadAG | the code, not the actual package | 02:01 |
| MrPingu | I thought it would be possible to assign custom shortcuts just like starting xterm from keyboard: ctrl shift x | 02:03 |
| MrPingu | but I can't figure out how... | 02:03 |
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| MrPingu | Also it's stated that ctrl shift h should go to home, something that doesn't work | 02:04 |
| MrPingu | So is the code of the cssu exactly the same as matans desktop? I never used matans desktop as I am a born in N900 after cssu | 02:05 |
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| MohammadAG | MrPingu, yes, hold on | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | MrPingu, http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | MrPingu, shortcuts like xterm are hardcoded in hildon-desktop, patches welcome | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG | here's the actual code for that https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/main.c#line673 | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~hail MohammadAG | 02:14 |
| * infobot bows down to MohammadAG and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" | 02:14 | |
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| MohammadAG | uni didn't ruin my memory at least... | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~rain MohammadAG | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 02:16 |
| MrPingu | I thought matan did made these shortcuts configurable, atleast possibility to create more I read somewhere on the wiki or TMO | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure about that | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/main.c#line586 <-- can't that handle SIGTERM? | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think he added some new ones | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | MrPingu, no, at least not with hildon-desktop itself | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | the code doesn't seem to be customizable outside of it, but he did add some shortcuts | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu: plus there was a way to send dbus signals for function keys | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | you can do that too by editing the code and rebuilding hildon-desktop | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever the def of "function key" | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, fn is mod5 apparently | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | whatever that is | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, but I meant function-keys as in matan's definition | 02:18 |
| MrPingu | Well not for now ;p Project for after my exams | 02:18 |
| MrPingu | I don't have the brains for such devstuff yet :P | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, that IS matan's definition :p | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | braindead stuff really :P | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_ctrl_shortcuts (*) | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | If this key is true, hildon desktop captures and reports on D-Bus the following combinations: ctrl+space, ctrl+comma, ctrl+period, ctrl+volume+/-. This conflicts with other uses for some of these combinations.<< | 02:20 |
| MrPingu | # /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/preset_shift_ctrl | 02:20 |
| MrPingu | previous key is false. | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_shortcuts_use_fn (*) | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | use ctrl+FN+key instead of ctrl+shift+key for D-Bus shortcuts. | 02:21 |
| MrPingu | Why does the H key not work? | 02:21 |
| MrPingu | Is dbus-scripts really bad on your battery? I mean I read somewhere it monitors the dbus the whole time and waiting to act on an event, but is that monitoring really holding the cpu from it's sleep state? | 02:23 |
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| MrPingu | Matan: "The program that handles those shortcuts is hildon-desktop, which is free software. I changed it to support more (and configurable) shortcuts, and released the result as modified-hildon-desktop" | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_shift_ctrl (*) | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | If the value of this key is true, then ctrl-shift-letter combinations are reported on the d-bus, | 02:24 |
| MrPingu | Yes I have that key enabled and disabled the preset | 02:25 |
| MrPingu | but still Home shortcut doesn't work | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu: (dbus scripting) no, this daemon works perfectly | 02:25 |
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| MrPingu | I always hold of dbus-scripts package because I read on TMO it was not good on your battery. | 02:26 |
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| MohammadAG | Unless the implementation sucks I don't think that can be true | 02:29 |
| MrPingu | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73038&page=2 | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what's been your question re SIGTERM? | 02:31 |
| MrPingu | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1031376&postcount=20 | 02:31 |
| MrPingu | Second link I meant, that scard me away from using dbus-scripts | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu: I won't even look at that tmo rant | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer: Can signal() handle it? | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | why not? | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer: Cause main() probably abruptly stops? | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | signal() can handle all except SIGSTOP and SIGKILL | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | So can we do something after 3 SIGTERMs? | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | Err I meant SIGSEV btw | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you like to implement such funny stuff, yes | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | Segfault | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 02:33 |
| MrPingu | Ah I trust you more than people on TMO, so I am not scard of dbus-scripts anymore then :P | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, you can catch SIGSEGV, otherwise dumphandlers wouldn't work | 02:34 |
| MrPingu | Going to sleep now, bye! | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | n8 | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu: I use dbus scripting since years | 02:34 |
| MohammadAG | So I can catch it in main.c? Gives me ideas | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | works just nice | 02:34 |
| MohammadAG | Save number of segfaults in file, after three faults activate a recovery terminal | 02:35 |
| vdv | on n900, how can i check programmatically whether internet connection is established? | 02:35 |
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| vdv | or does activating an internet connection trigger some event? | 02:35 |
| MohammadAG | If you're using Qt there's an easy way | 02:35 |
| vdv | MohammadAG, which one? | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | https://gitorious.org/qtbook/qtbook/blobs/master/mainwindow.cpp#line101 vdv | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (SIGSEGV) all that signal() does is placing addr of a callback function (the signal handler) into a location that will get jumped to on asserting that signal | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | this signal handler has to be a static void func() | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | So you obviously cant use pointers? | 02:40 |
| vdv | i'm not in qt actually, thought your hint can help me, but now i see i need some another way of detecting | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | That answers that | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | There's probably a standard linux way, or an icd2 way | 02:40 |
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| vdv | how "dangerous" is the editing of files /usr/bin/osso-mmc-mount.sh and /usr/sbin/mmc-mount.sh? according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Ext2_on_microSD_card | 02:42 |
| vdv | i.e. i have ext3 formatted micro sd | 02:42 |
| vdv | and i want to automount it on boot | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: use CSSU! | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | recent testing mounts all just fine | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | even multiple partitions on uSD | 02:43 |
| vdv | is stable one safe? | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, but has no multimount yet | 02:44 |
| vdv | MohammadAG, dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.icd_ui /com/nokia/icd_ui com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg boolean:false | 02:45 |
| vdv | call above shows change connection ui | 02:45 |
| vdv | most likely some event also triggered when user chooses connection | 02:46 |
| vdv | and connection establishes | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's for sure a dbus-signal when connection gets established, yes | 02:47 |
| MohammadAG | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/icd2/group__dbus__api.html#gafcbb73b4f35ce6f807baad88c6ced92 | 02:47 |
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| MohammadAG | vdv: ^ | 02:47 |
| vdv | hmm.. state query | 02:48 |
| vdv | it's already close | 02:48 |
| vdv | i can add a check to script | 02:49 |
| vdv | and run script on cron | 02:49 |
| vdv | but the best scenario, is when my script is invoked automatically when inet is on | 02:50 |
| vdv | and process kill when go offline | 02:50 |
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| vdv | MohammadAG, for example, pressing connect pc suite button, invokes /usr/sbin/pcsuite-enable.sh script | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's the variant that gets sent whenever a connection comes up or goes down | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | all you need to do is listen dbus for that very signal | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | just read on some 2 boxes down | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you could even use dbus scripting for that | 02:54 |
| vdv | DocScrutinizer, then i end up on having a process which monitors that, right? | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | e.g. dbus-scriptingd | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | or whatever it's called | 02:55 |
| vdv | if so, then i'd better let offlineimap daemon run on background | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 02:55 |
| vdv | when inet comes up, it'll synchronize | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 02:56 |
| vdv | when there's no internet connection, i hope it'll sleep | 02:56 |
| vdv | and not eat processor too much | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | you asked for a way to run some stuff when a connection gets established, well that is it | 02:56 |
| vdv | DocScrutinizer, sorry, yes i know | 02:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nfc what offlineimapdaemon will do during offline | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess it's doing exactly the same | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | listening to dbus signals telling there's a connection coming up | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | or it actively establishes a connection whenever it tries to poll imap on a timer schedule | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt that though | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even modest does that | 03:01 |
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| gn00b | does nokia service out of warranty devices (nokia n900)? | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Or maybe. | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | They may or may not do small repairs. | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | They cannot do board-swaps anymore. | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | At least - they couldn't in november. | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | they weren't willing to do | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes. | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet there's still some 150 boards for extreme cases | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Perhaps. | 03:35 |
| gn00b | guess i just have to notify them of my problem and hope for the best | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | What's wrong with it? | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | they just noticed the rate by which the RMA requests declined would cause expiry of spare boards before all N900 out in the wild got binned, so they advised helpdesk and service to deny serviceability | 03:37 |
| gn00b | won't come on. i see a dim 'NOKIA' when i try to turn it on, but it never boots. when plugged into usb, yellow light stays on. battery fully charged. | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | have you tried swapping battery? | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, that's neither battery fuly chaged, nor any severe problem | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you just need to reflash I guess | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | gn00b: Do you happen to own a multimeter? | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | which won't work without properly charged battery, which in turn doesn't get charged without flashed device | 03:39 |
| gn00b | SpeedEvil: no | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | no DMM needed, I can tell from remote what's up with that device :-D | 03:40 |
| gn00b | i have a seperate battery charger, so i know that the batteries are fully charged | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmmm | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | steady yellow means emergency charging, which happens only on very low battery | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is a hardware function that hardly ever fails in such a way it would kick in for fully chaged battery | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd try plugging it into wallcharger, and leaving for a few hours | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd rather bet on two borked batteries, or a defect external charger, rather than any other explanation why this steady yellow is seen | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: won't help when it doesn't boot up from NOLO | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: he said he sees dim NOKIA | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | won't flasher pause charging? | 03:44 |
| gn00b | one battery i know is going bad. the other i bought a few months ago on ebay, may also be bad. i'll buy another. | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | flasher will not help charging anyway | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Good luck | 03:46 |
| gn00b | thanx | 03:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | gn00b: check your external charger, maybe it eats batteries | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | cheap ones tend to do | 03:50 |
| ShadowJK | The japod I bought a year or so ago on dealextreme is really excellent. However, the comments on dx forums suggest the current japod bl-5j isn't that good. | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | is that a charger? | 03:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah, a battery? | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I tend to buy usually original ones from second hand phone shops | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | not that I've done that often | 03:57 |
| ShadowJK | Yes it's a battery | 03:58 |
| ShadowJK | it's about a year old, but I only started using it a few weeks ago when my N900 died, and I switched to spare N900 | 03:59 |
| ShadowJK | Capacities reported by bq27200, cycle:mAh:: 04:1459, 09:1455, 014:1441, 015:1464, 021:1453, 022:1454 | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: massive amount of "new N900" on ebay, all "from HK", and probably all fake | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | (RS=21) | 04:02 |
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| Hurrian | anyone here? | 06:39 |
| Hurrian | i'm having some trouble looking for something i know i saw on maemo.org before | 06:39 |
| Hurrian | something about removing the emmc home partition and letting maemo simply create one on the rootfs | 06:40 |
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| Hurrian | i think simply removing the "mount /home" lines would work | 06:41 |
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| Macer | well | 07:43 |
| Macer | been messimg with the lumia a while now | 07:43 |
| Macer | it is awesome | 07:44 |
| Macer | :) | 07:44 |
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| Termana | Macer, LIES! | 08:15 |
| Termana | Macer, BLASPHEMY! | 08:15 |
| Termana | Macer, OFF WITH YOUR HEAD IT IS!!! | 08:15 |
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| Vib3 | hi | 10:32 |
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| Vib3 | hmmm -> /etc/init.d/sendmail: .: line 35: can't open /lib/init/vars.sh | 10:38 |
| Vib3 | and theres even no /lib/init dir | 10:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, sendmail | 10:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sounds like this plg been configured for a completely different platform where /lib/init/ exists, and either by accident or carelessly (or not at all ;-P) got ported to harmattan | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | pkg* | 11:01 |
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| vdv | how can i autostart some app on boot? (app should be run after runlevel 4 is init) | 11:21 |
| vdv | i've added entry to /etc/event.d/ | 11:22 |
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| Vib3 | Doc I got n900 if you can remember :p | 11:22 |
| Vib3 | yea seems so.. | 11:23 |
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| vdv | probably i need start on started xsession, and not start on started hildon-desktop... | 11:23 |
| NIN101 | /etc/event.d is ok | 11:25 |
| NIN101 | e. g.: start on started hildon-desktop \n exec run-standalone.sh [path to your program] \n stop on starting shutdown <-- where \n means the start of a new line... | 11:27 |
| vdv | think, the problem was with DISPLAY var | 11:28 |
| vdv | checking now | 11:28 |
| vdv | NIN101, does run-standalone.sh set DISPLAY? | 11:28 |
| NIN101 | maybe | 11:28 |
| NIN101 | yes it does | 11:30 |
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| vdv | what is the purpose of run-standalone.sh? | 11:33 |
| vdv | deamonize process? | 11:33 |
| vdv | what if the process i want to run is "emacs --daemon"? | 11:33 |
| NIN101 | setting up environment variables etc. - just look at the source. | 11:36 |
| vdv | NIN101, thanks a lot! | 11:37 |
| vdv | that was a reason | 11:37 |
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| vdv | starting with run-standalone.sh solved the problem | 11:37 |
| NIN101 | yw | 11:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/harmattan/fremantle/ | 12:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vdv: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=957502#post957502 | 12:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the downside: you can't ever stop these autostarted apps | 12:04 |
| vdv | DocScrutinizer, can't i just kill the process? | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | get restarted immediately :-D | 12:06 |
| NIN101 | ohm... | 12:06 |
| vdv | DocScrutinizer, i.e. this happens if i use run-standalone.sh? | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | not OHM, HD | 12:06 |
| vdv | or .desktop file approach | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I didn't even mention run-standalone.sh | 12:07 |
| vdv | ah, ok | 12:07 |
| NIN101 | stuff in /etc/event.d/ isn't auotmatically watched by the watchdog you can close your apps and they won't respawn. | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, but then this is *not* the place to start X "childs" | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather xinitrc, or xsession or whatever been the file | 12:09 |
| vdv | DocScrutinizer, why if there's hildon-desktop option for set on started? | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | becuase HD isn't ready immediately after start? | 12:09 |
| NIN101 | ehm | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | because you got no handle into X in init.d? | 12:10 |
| NIN101 | start on started hildon-desktop | 12:10 |
| NIN101 | but sure, they are not X childs, this is true. | 12:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "start on started" doesn't mean the started process fully initialized | 12:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it just means the process got loaded and is running | 12:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which, for X, definitely doesn't mean all the child processes are also initialized and ready to deal with "the world" asking for services | 12:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. X is working via unix sockets (iirc), basically a network protocol. The X server may or may not yet have established his sockets so any process you start in any other place already can "connect to display:0.0" | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and even if X has done that, not all elementary childs of X may already listen to X messages and answer requests to e.g. add an icon to status menu or whatever | 12:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's what you usually got xinitrc* for that, or anything the "initial client" (aka *manager) offers. here it's the desktop files which are scanned by HD for the "X-Maemo-Prestarted=always" line | 12:28 |
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| Vib3 | started sendmail and got now running -> sendmail: MTA: Queue runner@00:10:00 for /var/spool/m | 12:36 |
| Vib3 | tried to set relayhost but nothin happens when sending mail, no errors | 12:36 |
| NIN101 | well indeed init shouldn't start X applications, so using .xsession or something is indeed the proper way. But there reasons why the /etc/event.d/ stuff works, becuase hildon-desktop is a fake job which watches for a "touch" in /tmp somewhere and this touch indicates that hildon-desktop is ready. | 12:37 |
| NIN101 | and then they have the same in /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop-wait but with the difference that is also sends a dbus "hildon is ready" message. Maemo is a mess :P. | 12:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw take all my talk about X above with a grain of salt, from my many "iirc" and "afaik" you can tell I'm not exactly an X expert | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | and yes, sure it's xsession you wanna exploit, not xinitrc | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | mixed up the two | 12:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: 100% ack for "a mess" | 12:47 |
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| Vib3 | has anyone got sendmail working with relayhost on n900? | 13:03 |
| vdv | is it safe if "user" user on n900 will have password? | 13:06 |
| vdv | if i set a password won't that brick the device? :) | 13:07 |
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| Pali | vdv, I have set user password and all working fine | 13:08 |
| vdv | Pali, cool, thanks | 13:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tbh I don't even know if I have password set for user | 13:49 |
| * Sicelo has :) | 13:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess I have, as I can ssh in to user, using ssh key, and iirc that doesn't work without password set | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ssh user@127.0.0.1 -> user@127.0.0.1's password:... :-D | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH, I even recalled what pw I've set | 13:51 |
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| Sicelo | 12345? | 13:54 |
| Sicelo | :P | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ot exactly, but close | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | in fact the PIN of my SIM | 13:54 |
| Sicelo | gosh! now you remind me that i have a PIN in SIM.. but haven't used it in 3 years :/ | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0000? ;-P | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems this is the standard PIN in Taiwan | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | concept of PIN widely unknown over there | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe related to the fact that the concept of theft also isn't very widespread | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | alegedly you can leave you phone (or purse) on some bank in the park, and pick it up a week later | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have a hard time to believe that, but anyway... | 13:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | any suggestions on sharing media? I want to add generic SFTP to upload to my server, rather than discontinued OVIshare or whatnot | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess somebody already implemented such stuff? | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, close: http://maemobriefs.blogspot.de/2010/07/sharing-plugin-webdav-upload-files-to.html | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | just don't feel like setting up webdav on my server | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | SFTP the protocol of my choice | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | AHA http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2010/03/02/command-line-sharing-plugin-for-n900/ | 15:09 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: dropbox? | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: meh, nope | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks anyway | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-January/023349.html | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just trying to pick up the pieces on how to use that thing | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | to be found under "sharing-cli" in extras-devel | 15:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if it might show up in a convenient way under "accounts" | 15:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | alas nope | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | only friggin OVI in there | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | which goes down on 30.05. | 15:56 |
| * dm8tbr found a gallery2 sharing plugin somewhere | 15:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I want my own server for destination of SFTP | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | or SCP | 15:56 |
| dm8tbr | it was somewhere on that whatchamacallit server including source | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | as I honestly got pissed by all those sharing services | 15:57 |
| dm8tbr | gallery2 is something you can host yourself jftr | 15:57 |
| dm8tbr | but if you take the garage source it should be easy enough to change that to use scp | 15:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maemo.cloud-7.de is good enough for me and my purposes | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and this sharing-cli shall be easy to create arbitrary accounts, see above link | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I "just" have to find out where to config it | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | or where to find out how to config it | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. manpage/wiki missing/unknown | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for unclear reasons pkg interface doesn't find anything about sharing-cli | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=share&org_maemo_packages_search[2][property]=title&org_maemo_packages_search[2][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[2][value]=same :-/ | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I fsckng wonder where they got a minimum of HowTo for that stuff | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | or will it just need a reboot, to pop up ubercool GUI ? | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah, I'm just obtuse | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | sharing-accounts->*new* | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | finally time to create a key pair, and get a sftp-login user on my server | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and a few ACL rules | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | (not going to keep privkey for root access to that server on my phone ;-D ) | 16:15 |
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| Macer | Termana: lol... a piece of me wishes i was lying but yeah.. i'm a convert heh | 16:40 |
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| Macer | windows phone is actually a good OS | 16:40 |
| Macer | once you tweak it a bit and get used to apps like ssh and IM not running in the background | 16:40 |
| Macer | the push thing is kind of new to me coming off the n900... but those were minor issues that tmux reattaching on login fixed for ssh and IM+ Pro fixed for IM | 16:41 |
| ShadowJK | background is extremely important for me :/ | 16:41 |
| Macer | i'm sorry to say it.. but the Lumia 900... the damn thing is ... awesome | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm conflicted. | 16:41 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: i haven't ran into an app yet where i really needed it.. other than ssh | 16:41 |
| Macer | which like i said... putting tmux attach -d in my .bashrc fixed ;) | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | I want it to be shit because I want nokia to go back to linux. | 16:42 |
| Macer | i know.. but i'm sorry to say... that it is awesome lol | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | But I want it to succeed as it's needed in the marketplace | 16:42 |
| Macer | yeah.. it sure does need to... ios is irritating.. and android is always flakey | 16:42 |
| ShadowJK | Well like now when I'm at a machine shop servicing computers, I occasionally pick up N900 from pocket to read the webpage I started loading 15 minutes ago so that I'd have something to do the next time 30 secs of time has to be killed :P | 16:43 |
| Macer | it's a good device tho | 16:43 |
| Macer | LOL | 16:43 |
| ShadowJK | except this time I checked xchat instead :P | 16:43 |
| Macer | yeah.... no background irc on the lumia | 16:44 |
| Macer | but i always use ssh and irssi for that anyways | 16:44 |
| Macer | maybe they'll make a push notification irc client but i doubt it | 16:44 |
| Macer | only nerds use irc :) | 16:44 |
| Macer | the cattle use txt messaging heh | 16:44 |
| ShadowJK | The time it takes to login to ssh and restore screen is greater than the amount of time I usually spend checking irc or whatever :) | 16:44 |
| Macer | lol.. it goes fast ;) | 16:47 |
| Macer | but then agian i'm using wifi and att lte | 16:47 |
| Macer | takes like 5s maybe | 16:47 |
| Macer | there is only one thing that sucks with windows phone 7.5 | 16:47 |
| Macer | the tile screen doesn't rotate | 16:47 |
| Macer | heh.. it reminds me of the n900 when i first got it and the desktop didn't rotate | 16:48 |
| Macer | they stay portrait | 16:48 |
| Macer | it would be awesome if they made it so each individual tile rotated when you put the phone sideways.. instead of flopping the entire screen sideways like most OSes do | 16:48 |
| Macer | and.... i miss a hw qwerty :( | 16:49 |
| Macer | the n900 had the best hw keyboard i ever used | 16:49 |
| Macer | http://www.google.com/finance?q=nokia | 16:50 |
| Macer | omg lol | 16:50 |
| Macer | well.. hopefully their quartly report after the lumia 900 release looks better | 16:52 |
| Macer | either way.. if it doesn't MS will buy them at pennies on the dollar :) | 16:53 |
| ShadowJK | it takes too long even on wifi backed by 100M fibre :) | 16:53 |
| Macer | your n900? microb always had been a bit on the slow side | 16:54 |
| Macer | i feel like buying nokia stock | 16:54 |
| Macer | now's the time! :) | 16:54 |
| ShadowJK | xterm and ssh | 16:55 |
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| jacekowski | nokia went down a lot in last few years | 17:08 |
| jacekowski | in 2008 it was almost 40$ | 17:08 |
| jacekowski | now it's less than $4 | 17:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I'm still gaming, sitting on my virtual stock I pretended to buy at 7.114EUR | 17:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It's at the price it was in 1995 | 17:26 |
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| Macer | jacekowski: yeah lol | 17:27 |
| Macer | jacekowski: but it seems taht lumia 900 was a success in the US at least | 17:27 |
| Macer | so maybe that success will carry over.. but at $3/share.. omg even i need to get some lol | 17:28 |
| Macer | if their partnership with MS takes off and they start actually selling phones again then it's a wrap | 17:28 |
| Macer | their stock will go up 1000% in 1 quarter | 17:28 |
| Macer | since it's so cheaply priced now | 17:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Or microsoft decides they'd actually like to own it. | 17:29 |
| SD69 | merlin1991: ping | 17:31 |
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| merlin1991 | SD69: pong | 17:31 |
| SD69 | did you talk with X-Fade after council meeting re cssu maintainership? | 17:32 |
| merlin1991 | yep | 17:32 |
| merlin1991 | it's all fixed now | 17:32 |
| merlin1991 | uploading to cssu is now linked to garage groups | 17:32 |
| merlin1991 | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cssu-testing/ and https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cssu-stable/ | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and obviously was easier to implement than our workaround | 17:33 |
| merlin1991 | SD69: if you're interested in the raw irc log of that conversation see http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-04-20.log.html#t2012-04-20T15:31:47 | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least judging by how long it took | 17:34 |
| SD69 | glad it's done | 17:36 |
| SD69 | merlin1991: I've heard about loss of zoom functionality on cssu - is it the keyboard shortcut only that was dropped? | 17:37 |
| merlin1991 | we dropped the keyboard shortcut and the poc implementation of the complete desktop zoom | 17:37 |
| merlin1991 | it was only a poc an noone was willing to work on it | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it was useless anyway I heard, as you could zoom but not pan | 17:38 |
| merlin1991 | (it got added to cssu in version 20.2010.36-2maemo13 (09.03.2011) ) | 17:38 |
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| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: well you could pan, depending on the position of the moon and your birthday ;) | 17:39 |
| merlin1991 | in other words it worked perfectly fine once in a while xD | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 17:39 |
| SD69 | so individuals apps can still zoom with +/- keys? | 17:39 |
| merlin1991 | sure, that was never touched | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | the zoom was a X-global one AIUI | 17:40 |
| merlin1991 | we only removed the full display zoom Ctrl + Shift + s / f | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if an app has local zoom implemented that will of course still work | 17:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (e.g microB, xterm fontsize) | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | (pdf-reader) | 17:42 |
| SD69 | okay | 17:42 |
| SD69 | any thoughts on cOBS from cssu pov? | 17:43 |
| merlin1991 | if anything it gets better | 17:43 |
| merlin1991 | we currently can't build on the autobuilder anyway | 17:43 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: nokia isn't only mobile phone company | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: they do network gear as well | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: and all carrier side of GSM | 17:54 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: but iirc it's either iranian firewall or china firewall that runs on nokia gear | 17:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - yes, I know | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Carrier side is also getting cannibalised a bit by China AIUI | 18:13 |
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| Macer | lol | 18:34 |
| Macer | china firewall! woo! | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I bet great chinese FW is using a potpourri of brands | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I doubt any manufacturer will build selfdestruction devices into all their racks, that fire on detecting they are running a cetain unspecified type of software | 18:41 |
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| vdv | where can i get normal touch command on my n900? | 19:48 |
| vdv | normal, i.e. not busybox one | 19:48 |
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| kerio | vdv: hmm... | 20:00 |
| kerio | gnu coreutils? | 20:00 |
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| vdv | ruskie, i've installed coreutils-gnu, but i still get busybox version of touch when type touch, and i'm in bash, how can i run coreutils version of touch? | 20:09 |
| ruskie | tried gtouch ? | 20:09 |
| vdv | cool, thanks | 20:09 |
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| vdv | ruskie, dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.icd_ui /com/nokia/icd_ui com.nokia.icd_ui.show_conn_dlg boolean:false | 20:45 |
| vdv | dbus call above opens internet connection dialog | 20:45 |
| vdv | and user selects a connection to connect | 20:45 |
| vdv | is it possible to take some action additional to connecting to internet? | 20:46 |
| vdv | i.e. programmatically | 20:46 |
| vdv | maybe some shell script is called before interface gets up? | 20:47 |
| vdv | like /usr/sbin/pcsuite-enable.sh is called when user presses pc suite button | 20:48 |
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| Sicelo | lulz.. karma of 3, lol | 20:57 |
| ruskie | vdv, check the wiki there is some page about it iirc | 20:58 |
| ruskie | vdv, it should be possible | 20:58 |
| NIN101 | /etc/network/if-pre-up.d or if-up.d or whatevr you like | 21:01 |
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| vdv | NIN101, pefect! | 21:03 |
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| vdv | NIN101, thanks a lot | 21:04 |
| NIN101 | yw | 21:04 |
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| vdv | NIN101, i should just put shell scripts in those dirs, right? | 21:05 |
| vdv | there's no special format | 21:05 |
| vdv | ok, i'll google | 21:05 |
| * Sicelo uses that to run ntpdate ;) | 21:06 | |
| vdv | guys, you are helped me today so much, thanks | 21:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vdv: set usr/bin/gnu in your $PATH | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~jrtools | 21:28 |
| infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 21:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vdv: do NOT add gnu/ to your startup path! it will break boot | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. sysinit and X need to startup without gnu in path | 21:31 |
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| vdv | DocScrutinizer, but i don't have gnu/ in my PATH, should I? | 21:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vdv: I'm using a sed cmd in .bashrc, and first thing I do in xterm messybox is start bash | 21:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2012-04-22 20:28:36] <DocScrutinizer> vdv: set usr/bin/gnu in your $PATH | 21:33 |
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| vdv | DocScrutinizer, i don't understand context of your advice to set usr/bin/gnu in PATH | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2012-04-22 18:48:12] <vdv> where can i get normal touch command on my n900? | 21:36 |
| vdv | ah, ok | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2012-04-22 19:09:09] <vdv> ruskie, i've installed coreutils-gnu, but i still get busybox version of touch when type touch, and i'm in bash, how can i run coreutils version of touch? | 21:36 |
| vdv | i did apt-get install coreutils-gnu | 21:36 |
| vdv | yes | 21:36 |
| vdv | and i din't reboot yet | 21:36 |
| vdv | DocScrutinizer, i execute gtouch, instead of touch | 21:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vdv: that sucks, no? | 21:39 |
| vdv | that i should use gtouch instead of touch? | 21:39 |
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| vdv | DocScrutinizer, what sucks? | 21:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I always felt it sucks to use g* since /usr/bin/gnu/* isn't in path | 21:42 |
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| vdv | but only installing coreutils-gnu won't brick device, right? | 21:43 |
| vdv | using g* command is ok for me now | 21:44 |
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| vdv | i'm so tired with my n900 | 21:45 |
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| vdv | if someone would buy it, i'll sell | 21:45 |
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| ShadowJK | how come? | 21:45 |
| vdv | i'm spending all my time trying to tweak it | 21:46 |
| vdv | constantly, new things appear everyday | 21:46 |
| MrOpposite | Hi, how do I get curl to work? I keep getting an error: | 21:46 |
| MrOpposite | curl: relocation error: curl: symbol curl_dostrdup, version CURL_OPENSSL_3 not defined in file libcurl.so.4 with link time reference | 21:46 |
| vdv | something, that doesn't work as expected | 21:46 |
| vdv | and should be fixed, workaround-ed | 21:47 |
| ShadowJK | stop tweaking then? Just because it's not forbidden doesn't mean it's mandatory :P | 21:47 |
| MrOpposite | with this command: curl -R -O "http://<username>:<password>@opposite.biz:9091/transmission/rpc" | 21:47 |
| vdv | ShadowJK, but i've payed for device, i did have big expectations, i ignored all those googlephones, was inspired with maemo | 21:48 |
| MrOpposite | (that command is a part of a bigger script, I just narrowed the problem down to that single line | 21:48 |
| MrOpposite | ) | 21:48 |
| ShadowJK | hehe, saw someone trying to read email on a samsung galaxy something or other today | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: I know how you feel, I had that times as well. Until I found out a lot is just a bit unusual and very sparsely documented | 21:49 |
| ShadowJK | Scrolling through list of mails froze, then it opened a random email lol | 21:49 |
| MrOpposite | vdv I like the n900 because of the tweeking, it makes my phone feel like MY phone | 21:50 |
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| MrOpposite | What I like is writing small scripts that makes my life easier in a nerd-way | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: and messybox been one of the major PITAS for me, until a got the catch what messybox actually is and how it works | 21:51 |
| MrOpposite | Now, that script is messed up... because of CURL | 21:51 |
| MrOpposite | cURL* | 21:51 |
| vdv | MrOpposite, i could close my eyes for all that "complexity" if nokia wouldn't so unfair und didn't stop support | 21:51 |
| * ShadowJK suspects other phones don't have any better userland :P | 21:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | defimitely not | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe SHR | 21:52 |
| MrOpposite | Anyway, DocScrutinizer do you know how to get cURL working? | 21:52 |
| MrOpposite | You seem to know quite a bit | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least on SHR things don't break when you install proper bash and unixtools and discard messybox | 21:52 |
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| vdv | sadly, open source and mobile devices is like utopie | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrOpposite: I am sorry to disappoint you, but I never even heard of cURL | 21:53 |
| MrOpposite | oh, okay | 21:53 |
| ShadowJK | MeeGo doesn't have busybox, but then again there are no devices lol | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | vdv: ShadowJK: there's OM FreeRunner, and now even GTA04 | 21:54 |
| MrOpposite | Is it possible to recieve the body of a http-request that returns an 409-error in wget? | 21:54 |
| MrOpposite | a* | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | all as opensource as it gets, GTA04 even comes without *any* OS installed :-P | 21:54 |
| ShadowJK | gta04 is kinda bare bones, literally ;p | 21:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | GTA01 did too! | 21:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Boot to kernel panic | 21:55 |
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| vdv | lol, Free Runner takes up to four minites to boot | 22:00 |
| vdv | just saw video | 22:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | Depends on OS | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Can be a lot faster | 22:01 |
| vdv | ah, ok | 22:02 |
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| MrOpposite | WHO | 22:04 |
| MrOpposite | I got cURL to work | 22:04 |
| MrOpposite | now all I need to do is to get microB to send magnet links to that script | 22:05 |
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| MrOpposite | uhm | 22:09 |
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| MrOpposite | uhm, is mp-fremantle-002-pr vital package? | 22:10 |
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| ShadowJK | yes, quite | 22:10 |
| MrOpposite | hmm... | 22:11 |
| MrOpposite | It... sortof got automatically removed by aptitude | 22:11 |
| ShadowJK | You're probably trying to install a package from another distro | 22:11 |
| ShadowJK | or, you're using aptitude, heh. | 22:11 |
| MrOpposite | no, I upgraded libcurl3 | 22:11 |
| ShadowJK | apt-get and friends will remove maemo if you install stuff from outside maemo :P | 22:11 |
| MrOpposite | heh | 22:12 |
| MrOpposite | ShadowJK what does the package DO? | 22:12 |
| MrOpposite | I haven't found any information on that yet | 22:12 |
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| ShadowJK | It's a meta package that brings in all other packages | 22:13 |
| MrOpposite | Meh, I can live without that... | 22:13 |
| MrOpposite | As long as my phone still boots | 22:13 |
| ShadowJK | It'll break :P | 22:14 |
| MrOpposite | Uhm, why? | 22:15 |
| MrOpposite | If it's only purpose is to bring in other packages, and no other packages were lost | 22:15 |
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| MrOpposite | (I'm not trying to sound ignorat, I don't see the problem, which I think exists because of what you just said) | 22:16 |
| vdv | ruskie, any idea why in following howto dovecot is started with -F option from inside of event.d script? http://wiki.maemo.org/Improving_Modest_email_sync_reliability#Adding_dovecot_IMAP_server_to_let_Modest_accessing_emails_locally | 22:18 |
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| vdv | -F means run in foreground | 22:19 |
| ShadowJK | you might be right, but usually doing something like that usually also blows away the rest of the system too :P | 22:19 |
| vdv | ruskie, why not start deamonized dovecot from event.d script? | 22:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MrOpposite: you probably can live without fremantle-MP, for a while. You also can reinstall it | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you use the opportunity to switch to CSSU-Stable which comes with an own MP | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise next autoremove will nuke your complete system | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and all sorts of weird appmanagers like fapman and aptitude and whatnot else do autoremove quite frequently it seems | 22:30 |
| * RST38h moos quietly | 22:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and - just in case you never heard: NEVER do (dist-)upgrade or autoremove | 22:32 |
| * RST38h does upgrade | 22:32 | |
| RST38h | not dist- though, that is bound to ruin something | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you're a terrorist | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | you always do weird things and nobody can stop you ;-P | 22:33 |
| RST38h | a masochist, maybe, a terrorist though? | 22:33 |
| RST38h | nah | 22:33 |
| RST38h | when you do upgrade, apt always asks you if you really want to do that | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | you got a clue of what you're doing though - usually | 22:33 |
| RST38h | so, when I see that it offers me evil stuff, I click N | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 22:34 |
| RST38h | has been pretty harmless lately though | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as you don't decide to add -devel just for fun | 22:34 |
| RST38h | nah, bad idea | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | or - alternatively - always had -devel enabled | 22:35 |
| RST38h | I have extras-devel enabled, but not the actual nokia devel repo | 22:35 |
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| RST38h | extras-devel has long been used as extras, sans the anal-retentive promotion policies | 22:37 |
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| RST38h | nokia's devel repo that Scratchbox-based SDK uses is full of weird stuff though | 22:38 |
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| MrPingu | Hi | 22:47 |
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| MrPingu | Ever heard of a sudden reboot loop? | 22:47 |
| MrPingu | Yesterday I just put away my phone on charger, the next morning i found it was turned off | 22:48 |
| Macer | wow. the old school battlestar galactica is on | 22:48 |
| Macer | awesome | 22:48 |
| MrPingu | I thought well probably charger wasn't inserted properly, but instead my n900 turned itself in ready-for-reflash brick :P | 22:49 |
| MrPingu | The strangest of this all is, I didn't do anything special. I said here goodnight and the next morning it was dead. Anyone heard of this before? | 22:51 |
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| MrPingu | ah g2g bye! | 22:59 |
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| MrOpposite | DocScrutinizer tell me more about the CSSU-Stable MP-thingi | 23:23 |
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