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| Macer | well... friday i am going to get a lumia 900 | 15:40 |
|---|---|---|
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| Macer | time to move on with the 2nd n900 ive had in just as many years breaking on me | 15:40 |
| Macer | :) | 15:40 |
| Macer | plus the ms os actually looks pretty damn awesome | 15:41 |
| Macer | i doubt nokia will honor the warranty for it | 15:41 |
| Macer | i might open it later and see if i can see a solder break by the sim but either way i want to ditch tmob anyways... they totally suck | 15:42 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | i wish people wouldnt keep reminding me of the mortality of n900s... | 15:45 |
| HRH_H_Crab | esp. as i havent bought a spare yet /o\ | 15:45 |
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| Macer | lol | 15:53 |
| Macer | well... they sure had their flaws | 15:53 |
| Macer | the usb port was a biggie | 15:53 |
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| Macer | i love the device but after this one i'm done :) | 15:55 |
| Macer | it will find its place in the drawer next to the n810 heh | 15:55 |
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| chem|st | HRH_H_Crab: my first n900 still lasts... | 15:58 |
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| chem|st | Macer: WinMo... insane... | 16:00 |
| chem|st | there were more n9s sold than lumia xxxs... guess why! | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 16:01 |
| chem|st | o/ | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 3 pcs N900 here now | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | not averse getting a 4th one | 16:02 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you'll get mine if my sister doesn't want it | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | though no defects on any of them yet, apart from case scratching caused by me stepping on it | 16:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (no, it wasn't on purpose ;-P ) | 16:03 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: suggestions for a new toy? | 16:03 |
| Macer | chem|st: i think the lumia 900 is different | 16:03 |
| Macer | they are selling well | 16:03 |
| Macer | and picking up momentum | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr, if I had any, I'd not look for a pile of N900 to survive the dark times | 16:04 |
| tadzik | how often do your N900s break? | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh I had a defect: FPC went bonkers -> black screen | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | took Nokia 5 weeks to repair | 16:05 |
| chem|st | tadzik: never | 16:05 |
| Macer | lol | 16:05 |
| chem|st | it even survived wheat-beer coke mix 0.5L | 16:06 |
| chem|st | it is still my primary phone | 16:06 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: n900 new on ebay for 250eur | 16:07 |
| tadzik | heh. Hearing all those "I still haven't bought my spare one" | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 16:07 |
| Macer | http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+Phones+First+Hit+Nokia+Lumia+900+LTE+Sells+Out/article24476.htm | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | tadzik: if they would break every 3 monts, do you think I'd bother getting spare? | 16:08 |
| tadzik | why, that's what I'm asking about | 16:08 |
| Sicelo | win 28 | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | because it's getting harder to get spare, and eventually every hw will break | 16:09 |
| Macer | windows mobile's first hit lol | 16:09 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: my mom still uses a 7 year old razr :-P | 16:09 |
| HRH_H_Crab | chem|st: mine too | 16:09 |
| Macer | but that was when motorola built stuff in the US | 16:09 |
| Macer | and quality was a major concern | 16:09 |
| HRH_H_Crab | since i read about the charger connection problem and really got to like that phone, | 16:09 |
| HRH_H_Crab | ive been really careful with it! | 16:09 |
| Macer | now companies make throwaway electronics | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 16:10 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i look after my n900 more carefully than most people with a brand new iphone! | 16:10 |
| Macer | the only incentive for a company to upgrade stuff and create new features is because then consumers don't feel so bad they have to throw a phone away they bought for $500 about 2 years prior | 16:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I already "used up" 2 keymats (both have some paint coming off, usually on e/3 key) | 16:11 |
| Macer | i did that as well on my last n900 | 16:12 |
| Macer | the current one was actually holding up quite well tho | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I 2 times dropped a N900, one time even stepped on it trying to catch it with my foot | 16:12 |
| Macer | too bad the sim rader is jacked up | 16:12 |
| Macer | i can do the paper thing but that's jut ghetto.. and eventually that will no longer work as well | 16:12 |
| Macer | jut/just | 16:12 |
| chem|st | Macer: build in the US and quality is an oxymoron... | 16:12 |
| Macer | please don't use the car industry as an example ;) | 16:13 |
| StyXman | chem|st: I wonder, what country would you trust for building stuff? | 16:13 |
| Macer | my parents had a zenith television for 2 decades with no problems | 16:13 |
| Macer | lol | 16:13 |
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| Macer | they also had a receiver that was made by a US company that they still have and still functions perfectly | 16:13 |
| StyXman | chem|st: I'm not from USA, so go ahead :) | 16:13 |
| chem|st | StyXman: germany... | 16:13 |
| StyXman | chem|st: hmm, true | 16:14 |
| StyXman | finland | 16:14 |
| Macer | StyXman: :-P my nokia n900 was made in finland | 16:14 |
| chem|st | Made in W. Germany still applies! | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't mean a thing | 16:14 |
| Macer | with its broken sim reader that was bought in china | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | (made in finland) | 16:14 |
| chem|st | Macer: your n900 was made in china... | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 16:14 |
| Macer | chem|st: heh | 16:14 |
| Macer | all electronics are made in china :-P | 16:15 |
| chem|st | Macer: all n900s even the developer ones are made in china | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | or japan | 16:15 |
| StyXman | Macer: mine says the same, and the green led doesn't work anymore after... 5months? | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | or korea? | 16:15 |
| chem|st | StyXman: that might be a mce problem... | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | StyXman: might be starting FPC connector problem | 16:15 |
| Macer | StyXman: about 5 months for mine as well ;) | 16:16 |
| Macer | before the sim reader just suddenly stopped working | 16:16 |
| Macer | the chinese character for months and years must have been confusing | 16:16 |
| Macer | since most chinese electronics have a 5 year lifespan | 16:16 |
| Macer | at least that has been the case in my experience | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I actually don't think N900 early failures are significantly higher than on any other device of same complexity | 16:17 |
| Macer | timed solder :) | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | nonsense | 16:17 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: i will not believe it when someone does a study on it and proves me wrong :) | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, well you mean electronic devices made in china, not parts | 16:18 |
| Macer | those asians are doing something | 16:18 |
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| Macer | i say timed solder... or pathways that are set to break when exposed to a certain amount of heat for x amount of time | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | a chinese SMT LED has no way less livespan than any other one | 16:19 |
| Macer | solder would be easier tho.. i'm sure you can make an easy mixture which corodes after a certain amount of time | 16:19 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: on rebuy for 170eur | 16:19 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: if everything lasted forever china would have a few billion starving people with no factories to work in | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: usually no new ones | 16:20 |
| StyXman | Macer: lemme guess, you´re trolling, right? | 16:20 |
| Macer | i mean they're still starving.. but at least they have factories to keep their minds off the hunger :) | 16:20 |
| Macer | StyXman: a little bit | 16:20 |
| Macer | i'm being serious about the timed electronics tho | 16:20 |
| Macer | i honestly believe there is something going on in asia where the electronics are timed to malfunction | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | chinese stuff often is lacking any "useless" protection circuits etc | 16:21 |
| StyXman | Macer: most advanced countries' economies are based in consume. if shit didn't break, there would be muuuuch less consume | 16:21 |
| Macer | StyXman: of course... but that's why you make new and innovative things | 16:21 |
| StyXman | here in .fr it's cheaper to but a new vacuum than to reapir one | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which results in those devices much easier break on e.g. ESD events that a decent device would survive without problems | 16:21 |
| Macer | StyXman: that is every place | 16:22 |
| Macer | like i said.. throwaway electronics | 16:22 |
| Macer | walmart ruined the world :) | 16:22 |
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| StyXman | Macer: you haven't been much ti the «third world», did you? | 16:22 |
| Macer | sure.. i've been all over the world | 16:22 |
| Macer | india was probably the worst | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: link? | 16:22 |
| Macer | and i thought we had ghettoes here :) | 16:22 |
| Macer | india is one giant slum | 16:22 |
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| Macer | but what do 3rd world countries have to do with asians using corrosive solder on purpose to keep sales up? | 16:24 |
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| StyXman | Macer: in the country I grew up we repair shit because they're expensive | 16:24 |
| StyXman | I repaired all kinds of appliances | 16:25 |
| StyXman | but the main difference is: you can get the spare parts in shops | 16:25 |
| StyXman | here I can't find any | 16:25 |
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| Macer | off the top of your head was there a bigger ratio of things requiring repair which came from asia as opposed from other countries? | 16:26 |
| narcos | Hi all. On my N900 I've setup openvpn in bridge (layer 2) mode. It works fine. What I want now is to create an access point such that devices connect to my phone, and have their layer2 traffic also bridged over the vpn. I've created a soft AP with airbase, and can connect. But I don't know how to forward the layer 2 traffic over the tap0 interface. Help? | 16:26 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: http://www.rebuy.de/kaufen/suchen?q=n900&x=0&y=0 | 16:26 |
| StyXman | Macer: well, to be honest, most where from the country itself, and china too | 16:27 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: sure not new, would it be rebuy if new? | 16:27 |
| StyXman | but I won't blame it on planned obsolesence | 16:27 |
| StyXman | but more on bad quality stuff | 16:27 |
| Macer | probably because you didn't consider it ;) | 16:27 |
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| Macer | someone crunching numbers somewhere did tho | 16:28 |
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| StyXman | Macer: it doesn't make sense if people can't buy your stuff | 16:28 |
| StyXman | the vacuum is broken? take a broom... | 16:28 |
| Macer | ever try sweeping a carpet? | 16:29 |
| Macer | it really sucks | 16:29 |
| StyXman | Macer: carpet? wassat? | 16:29 |
| narcos | I think maybe I need to create a bridge between at0 (the soft AP) and tap0 ? | 16:29 |
| Macer | lol | 16:29 |
| Macer | rug? | 16:29 |
| StyXman | I mean, we took the only one we had for cleaning like once every year | 16:29 |
| StyXman | we didn't get a color tv until well into the '90 | 16:30 |
| narcos | (on that second note - there doesn't seem to be the bridge-utils package available for maemo?) | 16:30 |
| StyXman | the VCR came later | 16:30 |
| StyXman | even later a cd player | 16:30 |
| StyXman | and only a few years ago a dvd | 16:30 |
| chem|st | 1st cd player was '93, a gift to my sister | 16:30 |
| StyXman | and we were middle class, or what's left of it | 16:30 |
| StyXman | chem|st: for her own use, or for her family'suse? | 16:31 |
| StyXman | I never hav a walkman or portable cd player | 16:31 |
| StyXman | well, enough ranting | 16:32 |
| Macer | in soviet russia we make new well to drink for chernobyl incident | 16:32 |
| StyXman | Macer: :))) | 16:32 |
| chem|st | 1st cd in our houshold | 16:32 |
| StyXman | a little bit of that | 16:32 |
| chem|st | but her's | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | narcos: sorry, no clue | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: for stuff like that you usually need powerkernel | 16:34 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizerJust managed to find brctl in busybox-power | 16:34 |
| narcos | :) | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | does it work? :) | 16:35 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Downloading - slow GPRS conection | 16:35 |
| narcos | *connection | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | DESCRIPTION | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | brctl is used to set up, maintain, and inspect the ethernet bridge configuration in the linux kernel. | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | emphasis on "in the ... kernel" | 16:36 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: What do you mean? | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean stock kernel doesn't support such "useless" things, you need powerkernel | 16:37 |
| narcos | Hmm @ the phone prompting me with "Warning: this package touches an essential system binary! Even though installation should be safe, a reflash may be required if something goes wrong" | 16:37 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure what you mean - I need to update my kernel? | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | thumbs up at messybox | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: yes, that's what I suspect you will find out in the end | 16:38 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Dang - is that a difficult thing to do? i.e. I don't know how | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | check for kernel-power in packages interface | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's also a thread on tmo | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | about "kernel-power v50" OWTTE | 16:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and I'm not completely sure if bridging is supported in stock kernel as well | 16:40 |
| narcos | Well, brctl installed, but doesn't seem to work, so I suspect you're right | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it's needed for e.g. DUN or sth, it might already be there | 16:40 |
| narcos | 16:40 | |
| narcos | Nokia-N900:~# brctl show | 16:40 |
| narcos | brctl: SIOCGIFBR: Package not installed | 16:40 |
| narcos | 16:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | see? | 16:41 |
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| narcos | Hmm @ : | 16:41 |
| narcos | Nokia-N900:~# ls -l /usr/bin/brctl | 16:41 |
| narcos | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Apr 18 15:36 /usr/bin/brctl -> /bin/busybox | 16:41 |
| narcos | 16:41 | |
| narcos | It's just a link to the busybox interpreter ? | 16:41 |
| StyXman | narcos: it's ok | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's how messybox works, yes | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 16:42 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 16:42 |
| StyXman | what you need is some support in the kernel you´re runnig | 16:42 |
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| narcos | StyXman: Could you elaborate ? I'm feeling a little confused | 16:42 |
| StyXman | narcos: you have to things to create a bridge: | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# apt-cache search kernel-power | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | multiboot-kernel-power - Maemo 'kernel-power' configuration for multiboot | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel-power - Flashable Linux kernel (kernel power 2.6.28.10) | 16:43 |
| StyXman | a) kernel code that actually simulates a switch between your interfaces and | 16:43 |
| StyXman | b) a CLI util to manage it | 16:44 |
| StyXman | you have b), you need a) | 16:44 |
| narcos | StyXman: Ah, OK. So brctl is (b) - but it can't do its business with the current kernel? | 16:44 |
| StyXman | narcos: AFAIK, no | 16:45 |
| narcos | Oh | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | no netfilters/ipchains, no bridging on stock kernel | 16:45 |
| StyXman | the original kernel lacks support for several things, mainly because the phone was not meant to do them | 16:45 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: To install that new kernel, is it just a case of "apt-get install kernel-power" ? | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: I strongly suggest you use HAM for that | 16:46 |
| narcos | What's a HAM ? | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | but basically yes, get the 3 relevant pkgs: kernel, kernel-flasher, kernel-modules | 16:46 |
| narcos | The application manager? | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hildon AppMan | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so yes | 16:47 |
| narcos | /me Googles | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you definitely want to read a bit about powerkernel prior to messing with it | 16:48 |
| narcos | Currently sitting on http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power :) | 16:48 |
| narcos | This is cool, thanks for the help guys | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't need to google HAM though, it's simply the default GUI appman | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, that's a good starting point I guess | 16:49 |
| narcos | Oh right - the one that comes with the phone on the main desktop? | 16:49 |
| narcos | Doh, i've been trying to search for it to install it | 16:49 |
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| StyXman | narcos: stick around and you'll learn maemospeak quite fast :) | 16:51 |
| narcos | heh, will do :) | 16:52 |
| narcos | I dig this phone | 16:52 |
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| narcos | Hmm I seem to have an old maemo. "The kernel package was previously called kernel-flasher-maemo" - that's what I see in my application list | 16:55 |
| narcos | But I also see "Linux kernel for power user (boot image for multiboot)" | 16:55 |
| narcos | Although, checking my current kernel, it looks like I already have the power one? : | 16:58 |
| narcos | The kernel package was previously called kernel-flasher-maemo | 16:58 |
| narcos | (wrong paste) | 16:58 |
| narcos | This: | 16:58 |
| narcos | Nokia-N900:~# uname -r | 16:58 |
| narcos | 2.6.28.10power40-wl1 | 16:58 |
| StyXman | narcos: it's not the original, that's for sure | 16:59 |
| narcos | StyXman: So I've installed the pwniexpress pwnphone image | 17:00 |
| narcos | I suspect that may be the cause | 17:00 |
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| narcos | Maybe a later power kernel is what I need | 17:04 |
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| narcos | Phew, this stuff's giving me a headache, back to other work, I'll pick it up later. Catch y'all later! | 17:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | narcos: get kernel-power50 | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nfc what's this pwnphone mage, and esp which version/tweaks vs "proper" maemo | 17:27 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: OK cool. I'll see if I can get that installed. | 17:27 |
| StyXman | can I please pretty please replace the date chooser? it s**ks... | 17:27 |
| RST38h | Hehe | 17:28 |
| RST38h | While overflying a region 113.4 km from entry point at a height of 1500 meters, UAV's instruments and GPS failed and visual contact with the ground was lost. Non-essential systems were put into standby to maximize battery life and UAV was placed into freefall. As of this date, ? years later, UAV is still transmitting and is still in a state of freefall. | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | StyXman: it sucks big time. I thought about replacing the shit in gtk lib | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but it seems that's not an easy thing to do | 17:28 |
| RST38h | Am I the only one thinking tha the date chooser is a'ok? =) | 17:29 |
| StyXman | RST38h: it has no DOW reference | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: from your uname -a I gather your pwmphone thing has WLAN injection patches | 17:29 |
| StyXman | so «next thursday» is a guess excercise | 17:30 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Yeah it does | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel-power50 should come with these as well | 17:30 |
| StyXman | RST38h: where's that quote from? | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | StyXman: exactly | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | useless crap | 17:30 |
| RST38h | StyXman: google | 17:30 |
| StyXman | RST38h: «google» is quite big... | 17:30 |
| LaoLang_cool | Any way on pc to know if there's any update for maemo cssu? | 17:31 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: To get a newer listing of kernel-power should I do an apt-get update .. ? | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | StyXman: btw all slotmachine choosers suck | 17:32 |
| LaoLang_cool | A way needn't to run `apt-get update` on maemo | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: I suggest you get the 3 *.dpk and install with dpkg | 17:33 |
| RST38h | Doc: falsely make you think the money will start streaming out of them if you get the right combination? | 17:33 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Oh, and on the WLAN injection note - yeah those patches allow me to create a soft access point easily with airbase, which is useful. | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | or see if apt-get update will find it in extras-devel | 17:33 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: OK cool I'll try that | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry headache, bbl | 17:35 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Ah sorry to hear that, feel better soon! | 17:35 |
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| narcos | Anyone know where I can find the kernel .config file on maemo? I'd like to check if CONFIG_BRIDGE is in there. | 17:36 |
| narcos | Hm, maybe I need to install the headers | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ask Pali | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think there been a way to read defconfig from device | 17:42 |
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| vdv | somebody tried to point modest to repository of offlineimap? | 17:45 |
| vdv | i.e. displaying offlineimap folders in modest | 17:45 |
| vdv | http://wiki.maemo.org/Improving_Modest_email_sync_reliability | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | rx51power_defconfig probably | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q=rx51power_defconfig | 17:47 |
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| vdv | anyone here using CSSU on n900? | 18:00 |
| vdv | is it reliable enough? | 18:00 |
| Sicelo | if in doubt, use CSSU-Stable | 18:01 |
| Sicelo | it's stable.. i use it | 18:01 |
| vdv | how much modest is impoved there? | 18:01 |
| vdv | Sicelo, do you use modest often? | 18:02 |
| StyXman | I use CSSU, but never used modest... yet? | 18:04 |
| vdv | StyXman, which email client do you use then? | 18:06 |
| StyXman | vdv: none | 18:07 |
| StyXman | :| | 18:07 |
| vdv | )) | 18:08 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Installed powerkernel50 - same trouble with brctl :( | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I assume you're trying this with root permissions? | 18:13 |
| narcos | yeah | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then I dunno. Check if bridging is enabled via defconfig, ask Pali | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not even sure if what you try to do is supported at all, I.E. if you try to do a sane allowed thing | 18:17 |
| narcos | OK I'll play with defconfig | 18:17 |
| narcos | Totally not sure if what I'm trying to do is sane either | 18:18 |
| narcos | Pali: Ping :) | 18:18 |
| luke-jr | WTF | 18:20 |
| luke-jr | I configured Maemo SIP keepalive to 30 seconds | 18:20 |
| luke-jr | but it's doing it every HALF A SECOND -.- | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bah, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/source/k/kernel-power/kernel-power_2.6.28.orig.tar.gz : 69MB | 18:23 |
| Gh0sty | http://mosh.mit.edu/ | 18:23 |
| Gh0sty | would be cool for n900 perhaps? :) | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: haha | 18:24 |
| Sicelo | vdv.. not modest so often.. but occasionally, yes.. i use mutt daily ;) | 18:24 |
| luke-jr | 1 minute seems to do every 30 seconds for real | 18:26 |
| chem|st | Sicelo: mutt is my primary mail client... | 18:27 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | Gh0sty: if you look on the forum there is kind of a build for mosh | 18:29 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i tried to install it yesterday without much luck. | 18:30 |
| HRH_H_Crab | hopefully a slightly more "official" build will make the repos soon, or at least debian will get in it squeeze backports for arm so we can run it in a chroot. | 18:30 |
| HRH_H_Crab | for some reason they support other arches but not arm... | 18:30 |
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| vdv | is there any sources for modest-nokiamessaging plugin or is that proprietary? | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | (mosh) >>Roaming with SSP becomes easy: the client sends datagrams to the server with increasing sequence numbers, including a heartbeat at least once every three seconds.<< WUT? every THREE seconds?? | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | even while idle? farewell standby time | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | and those fools declare that as MObileSHell? BWAHAHAHA | 18:40 |
| HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: well presumably it cant send the heartbeat if the network isnt up... | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? | 18:41 |
| StyXman | HRH_H_Crab: you still wake up the cpu | 18:41 |
| StyXman | and the transmitter | 18:41 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Was that 69mb url for me? | 18:41 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | StyXman: the point im trying to make, | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | you still wake up GSM/UMTS TX, *that's* the point | 18:41 |
| HRH_H_Crab | is that if you dont want mosh to use power | 18:42 |
| HRH_H_Crab | close the terminal... | 18:42 |
| HRH_H_Crab | :P | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: somewhat, I guess most recent rx51_defconfig is in there | 18:42 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: OK ta | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HRH_H_Crab: hahaha | 18:43 |
| HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: o.k. | 18:43 |
| HRH_H_Crab | let me put it another way | 18:43 |
| HRH_H_Crab | are you saying that you think mosh will use more power than a standard ssh session? | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, extremely more | 18:44 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | why? | 18:44 |
| Creteil | hi all | 18:44 |
| HRH_H_Crab | (all other things being equal) | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | because of what I quoted above | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | it makes UMTS *send* data every 3 seconds | 18:45 |
| HRH_H_Crab | but if you just leave an ssh session connected, | 18:45 |
| HRH_H_Crab | and idle | 18:45 |
| HRH_H_Crab | its still going to send and receive data | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 18:45 |
| Creteil | maemo builder reject compilation with : undefined reference to `osName' someone have an idea ? (it compile fine under scratchbox ...) | 18:45 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: are you talking about just idling? | 18:45 |
| HRH_H_Crab | versus reading mail over ssh, or doing other useful stuff that people might normally use ssh for? | 18:46 |
| jpinx | in the N900 is there a way to list the apps installed in a read/use-able text-file format? | 18:46 |
| StyXman | jpinx: dpkg -l ? | 18:46 |
| HRH_H_Crab | say im reading through my mail in ssh its got to send and receive packets (but not send that 3 second heartbeat) | 18:47 |
| Creteil | jpinx, dpkg -l "*" | grep ii | awk '{print $2}' | 18:47 |
| jpinx | StyXman: heh - that easy? :) | 18:47 |
| HRH_H_Crab | with mosh im guessing it sends and receives about as much data (when doing the same task) plus the heartbeats | 18:47 |
| jpinx | Thanks Creteil :) | 18:47 |
| Creteil | jpinx, or just : dpkg -l "*" | grep ii | 18:47 |
| Creteil | for more infos ... | 18:47 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i guess you feel those heartbeats will consume a non trivial amount of extra battery? | 18:47 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | (im honestly interested because i think the local echo thing is quite nice) | 18:48 |
| StyXman | Creteil: dpkg -l alone does the grep ii part :) | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | HRH_H_Crab: I talk about those 30s you read output of last command before you start typing next command | 18:48 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i dunno. i guess i can sort of see your point. | 18:49 |
| jpinx | StyXman: got it thanks :) | 18:50 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i wont be convinced though until ive had a chance to play with it and see how it actually affects my battery life. | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | HRH_H_Crab: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption#3.5G_data.2C_short_pings | 18:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vs: >>3G connected, good signal, no data or other activity +8 mA.<< | 18:51 |
| HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: well i tend to keep my phone in 2G mode. | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't matter THAT much | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | calling this thing a dedicated MOBILE shell is outright over the top | 18:53 |
| HRH_H_Crab | yeah but thats just a catchy name. | 18:54 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | its more than likely a backronym! ;P | 18:55 |
| HRH_H_Crab | "whats cool and ends with sh? metal is cool! mosh!" | 18:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway: mosh over 3G: 3h standby,. mosh over 2G: 7h standby. My humble guess of best case figures you get | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | *idle* | 18:58 |
| chem|st | mosh? | 18:58 |
| chem|st | mobile shell? | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mosh.mit.edu/ | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 18:58 |
| HRH_H_Crab | DocScrutinizer: im rarely more than 7 hours away from a charger! ;P | 18:59 |
| HRH_H_Crab | if i was i might be forced to consider a different phone /o\ | 18:59 |
| HRH_H_Crab | (because the battery in this one is no spring chicken) | 18:59 |
| StyXman | HRH_H_Crab: 'cause you're the lucky ones whose usb port is not borked :) | 18:59 |
| HRH_H_Crab | yeah | 18:59 |
| * StyXman has thre rotang batteries | 19:00 | |
| chem|st | so mosh is client based right? | 19:00 |
| chem|st | so no mosh server? | 19:00 |
| chem|st | just reading... | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | it invokes server via SSH | 19:01 |
| chem|st | ok | 19:01 |
| chem|st | got that | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | then establishes own UDP connection on port 60...61000 | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | where the NAT nightmare already starts | 19:02 |
| HRH_H_Crab | heh | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: then sends a keepalive every 3 seconds | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 19:03 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i would have said "are you alive?" more than "keepalive" | 19:03 |
| chem|st | $localprovider = NATdevils | 19:03 |
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| chem|st | was wondering about SIP working on 3G... but it actually finds it's path | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean, what's the URL? MIT.EDU?? can't they come up with somthing with a little bit more common sense? | 19:05 |
| HRH_H_Crab | hahah | 19:05 |
| chem|st | mit.gov? | 19:06 |
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| chem|st | mit.we-think-we-are-elite.edu? | 19:07 |
| chem|st | l8er | 19:07 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | anyway, although i use ssh heavily on my n900 its rarely for more than an hour at a time or so. | 19:09 |
| HRH_H_Crab | what appeals to me bout mosh, is that if im on a train, and it goes through a tunnel, | 19:09 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | i have to restart the connection, and log back in. | 19:09 |
| HRH_H_Crab | im guessing that with mosh, i just have to restart the connection. | 19:09 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | saves on an up-arrow & return | 19:10 |
| HRH_H_Crab | ;P | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't get me wrong, the basic idea of mosh is nice. I just question some implementation details | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and yes, for short poweruser sessions mosh might be just OK | 19:12 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i dont think your questions are unreasonable. | 19:13 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i would say they are thought provoking | 19:13 |
| HRH_H_Crab | :) | 19:13 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders slapping together a poor_mans_mosh script, consisting of ssh, screen, and a while true loop | 19:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | of course it would lack this nifty prediction-stuff for temporary local echo | 19:52 |
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| ShadowJK | In N810 days I started using openvpn to achieve a persistent tcp connecxtion for ssh and irc | 20:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 21:26 |
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| Chekars | Hi! | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hi | 22:58 |
| Chekars | How's it going? | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | headache, but you don't wanna know | 22:59 |
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| Chekars | Ouch | 23:00 |
| Chekars | Cool handle | 23:01 |
| Chekars | Are you a doctor? | 23:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fun thing - I dunno whether from flu or from the doping my doctor prescribed me against it | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, no doctor | 23:01 |
| narcos | *plop* | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I recommend one ibuprofen, one paracetamol, and some coffee | 23:01 |
| narcos | Dang - bad luck still having that headache DocScrutinizer | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I learnt yesterday clenbuterol has that effect | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-P | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably I'm taking a medicine since 2 weeks to cure my flu, and the symptoms are not from flu but from the medicine | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny paradoxon | 23:03 |
| narcos | ouch | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: exactly what I will do right away now | 23:05 |
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| narcos | Man I'm on a dodgy connection. | 23:54 |
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