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| DocScrutinizer | and I can assure you it's almost as complex as a complete linux system | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | (not though for *our* BB5, as it doesn't use any app layer, only GSM stack and minimal interfacing to APE) | 00:02 |
| peterbjornx | maybe it is linux | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, it's probably not | 00:02 |
| peterbjornx | why else would it have 128mbs of flash | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be OSE | 00:02 |
| peterbjornx | that seems like overkill for a "simple" modem os | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | enea OSE used in many modems | 00:03 |
| peterbjornx | even linux itself is only 2mbs | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_System_Embedded | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah, probably NOS | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though ISA/NOS smells like OSE as well | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | "simple" modem? HAHA. visit #osmocom for getting an idea how complex network signalling aka GSM stack really is | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | and this is an UMTS stack! | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | no silly GSM | 00:11 |
| peterbjornx | but not 128mbs of code? | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably not | 00:16 |
| bindi | millibitseconds? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hihihi | 00:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meterbarsievert | 00:17 |
| peterbjornx | hahahah | 00:18 |
| peterbjornx | tbh idk if they mean 128 MiB 's or MB 's | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or even Mb | 00:19 |
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| peterbjornx | yea | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | which sounds more like it | 00:19 |
| peterbjornx | still , it having 128MB of ram and 128MB of rom seems more like a easy component choice than necessity | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | 16MB | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | 128Mb=16MB | 00:20 |
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| peterbjornx | 22bit address | 00:21 |
| peterbjornx | 2^22 = | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~she's_offline | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw still depends on word width | 00:22 |
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| peterbjornx | 16bit | 00:23 |
| peterbjornx | wait that'd be 8MiB | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's only 8MB | 00:23 |
| peterbjornx | so why does it say COMBO 128M DDR + 128M DDR DRAM on the schematics | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | 128Mbit! | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | usual way to label such stuff | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you probably missed an "addt line" | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | addr* | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2012-04-15 23:20:33] <DocScrutinizer> 128Mb=16MB | 00:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, does it really say "DDR + DRAM"? o.O | 00:32 |
| peterbjornx | yes | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh DDR + DDR DRAM | 00:32 |
| peterbjornx | oops | 00:32 |
| peterbjornx | no | 00:32 |
| peterbjornx | 128M NOR + 128M DDR DRAM | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | AHAAA | 00:33 |
| peterbjornx | fail | 00:33 |
| peterbjornx | so what bootstate should i hardcode it to if i want it to boot | 00:33 |
| peterbjornx | BOOT in preinit i guess\ | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOR - expensive enough | 00:33 |
| peterbjornx | what diffrence is there between nand and nor exactly | 00:34 |
| peterbjornx | besides design obv | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | tchnical details, plus cerification/QA | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOR supposed to be error free | 00:35 |
| peterbjornx | ah , but on digital logic level no differences | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | while NAND badblocks are "normal" and expected | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, in one design the cells are parallel, while on other they are in series | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth along that line | 00:36 |
| peterbjornx | do you think maemo on sdcard will be problematic? | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_flash | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | shouldn't really | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> In addition, NAND flash is typically permitted to contain a certain number of faults (NOR flash, as is used for a BIOS ROM, is expected to be fault-free). | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | also seems NOR is way faster | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | on reading | 00:42 |
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| peterbjornx | thanks | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOR and NAND flash differ in two important ways: | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the connections of the individual memory cells are different | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the interface provided for reading and writing the memory is different (NOR allows random-access for reading, NAND allows only page access) | 00:44 |
| peterbjornx | so thats why you almost never see NAND as boot roms | 00:45 |
| peterbjornx | it really sucks that theres no good replacement for the n900 out there | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 00:50 |
| * DocScrutinizer <3 wikipedia | 00:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer | OneNAND is specified to have at least one good block in first 4 | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | IIRC | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ROM-BL will take this into account and scip bad blocks | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | skip even | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | if ROM-BL is not mask programmed, I bet it's NOR | 00:54 |
| peterbjornx | ROM-BL? | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I heard it's mask programmed on STE Thor modems | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ROM BootLoader | 00:54 |
| Macer | shit | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 0 stage bootloader | 00:54 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: i got it put back together | 00:54 |
| peterbjornx | or in prom/otp eprom | 00:55 |
| Macer | and the damn thing won't exit landscape and go portrait | 00:55 |
| Macer | it's like i have an android phone running maemo :-P | 00:55 |
| Macer | lol | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | since "we" all just use ARM IP blocks, I bet this is exactly same for BB5 | 00:55 |
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| peterbjornx | so the ROM-BL is *inside* the core? | 00:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it tries booting some 1st stage 16k (IIRC) of code, from tty-uart, USB, mmc-controller 0 (and 1 iirc), and finally from NAND | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this 1st stage xloader loads NOLO, and I'm not sure if it does same scan of all possible sources for that like ROM-BL does | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, and what I forgot to mention: ROM-BL checks xloader's siganture against PKI pubkey in ROM | 01:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and ultimately switches off/r-o some security stuff you can find under buzzwird TrusZone | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Trust* | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | if that signature doesn't match | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project | 01:12 |
| nox- | hm does that mean one could boot from usd too? | 01:13 |
| nox- | or is mmc controller something else? | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | n900 does boot of usb during cold flash | 01:14 |
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| jacekowski | unless you meant microSD | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | that actually means you could boot xloader from uSD /given the bootsel pins are correctly wired in N900): | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>If MMC is included in the booting device list, the ROM looks for an SD Card on the first MMC controller. If a card is found, the ROM then looks for the first FAT32 partition within the partition table. Once the partition is found, the root directory is scanned for a special signed file called "MLO" | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: omap can boot kernel straight away without bootloader ( you just have to create binary in omap friendly format ) | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | and give it ready made register settings in it | 01:16 |
| nox- | well boot off usb would mean usb host stuff right? | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | no | 01:16 |
| nox- | oh | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: well xloader is size limited | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: not really | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: on n900 it is | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes it is | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | but omap can load kernel directly | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | skipping xloader | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the ram it gets loaded to is core ram | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | that's why first part of that binary is all settings | 01:17 |
| jacekowski | so it can access ram and other stuff | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless they changed ROMBL, you can'T skip the xloader step | 01:18 |
| nox- | ah is boot off usb what the flasher does? | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | but rom-bl can setup everything if provided with information | 01:18 |
| jacekowski | nox-: in coldflash mode | 01:18 |
| nox- | i c | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: yes, colldflash | 01:18 |
| nox- | *nod* | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: "normal" flashing is done by NOLO | 01:19 |
| nox- | i c | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | you can add all atags and register settings and rom-bl will just load it | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | not in line with http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project | 01:20 |
| jacekowski | well, omap TRM describes it more closely | 01:21 |
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| jacekowski | it is limited, that's why xloader way of doing things is better | 01:21 |
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| jacekowski | but that was originally the way of booting omap, xloader was added later because of limitations of rom-bl | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | intriguing | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevrtheless I'm temped to do dd if=/dev/random of=/home/user/MyDocs/MLO bs=16k count=1 | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait, it says "on controller 1", so make that of=media/card/MLO | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless jacekowski tells me N900 SYSBOOT Pins are configured in a way it will never look for MLO on uSD | 01:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which I have a hard time to assume, as otherwise it was a pinhead decision to mount uSD on controller1 and eMMC on controller2 | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | only reason to do that is to allow booting from uSD | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise you'd want it the other way round, to avoid this mmcblk0 vs mmcblk1 mess | 01:30 |
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| nox- | that would be cool to be easily dd stuff to an usd card without having to flash the device itself... | 01:31 |
| nox- | to be able to | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox, well - first step/try would be to create that file on uSD as I suggested above, and see if it fails to boot | 01:32 |
| nox- | :) | 01:33 |
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| FIQ|n900 | is microB open source? | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | engine yes, GUI not | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 01:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nox-: possibly you want to take if= from wherever xloader normally is stored to (I'd assume at very beginning of NAND) | 01:46 |
| nox- | ill leave testing these things to ppl more involved... :) | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 01:47 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: as far as i know you canonly change boot order | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm quite tempted, planned to play with this since long | 01:48 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: but it's been a while since i've read that part of manual | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 01:48 |
| jacekowski | but then you have xloader | 01:49 |
| jacekowski | and xloader will look for stuff on nand | 01:49 |
| jacekowski | and xloader can't be replaced because it's signed | 01:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | it can be replaced | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all I'd guess | 01:52 |
| jacekowski | did you happen to steal nokia signing key? | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | just that rombl then kicks TZ in the guts | 01:52 |
| FIQ|n900 | DocScrutinizer: the engine is gecko, isn't gecko GPL? | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 01:52 |
| jacekowski | FIQ|n900: lgpl | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya engine open, GUI closed | 01:53 |
| FIQ|n900 | ohh | 01:53 |
| FIQ|n900 | LGPL | 01:53 |
| FIQ|n900 | ok then | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | it's MPL | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | but it's more like LGPL than GPL | 01:53 |
| FIQ|n900 | just wondered why GUI was closed as it contained GPL content.. but apparently not. | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: rombl checks xloader signature | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | FIQ|n900: gui doesn't have any gpl/lgpl content | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | but what wiill it do when sig doesn't match? | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | FIQ|n900: it's all in engine | 01:53 |
| jacekowski | FIQ|n900: it's rendering tiles and stuff and then UI displays them | 01:54 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: try next device | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! | 01:54 |
| jacekowski | it's looking for valid omap boot image | 01:55 |
| jacekowski | part of verification if it's valid is checking signature | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's insane | 01:55 |
| jacekowski | on non HS devices that signature still has to be there | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | W*T*F!!!?!! | 01:56 |
| jacekowski | but then it's just simple checksum | 01:56 |
| FIQ|n900 | glhf with providing an alternative! | 01:56 |
| jacekowski | not really insane | 01:57 |
| jacekowski | it's meant to not execute untrusted code | 01:57 |
| jacekowski | "untrusted" | 01:57 |
| jacekowski | or corrupted | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrmmmmpff | 01:57 |
| jacekowski | so you're stuck with xloader | 01:57 |
| FIQ|n900 | as long as you don't steal Nokia's | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | you can have xloader on uSD but then it will load nolo from emmc | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I assume the PKI in ROM is per customer? | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i couldn't find any info on that | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | but i very much doubt it's in ROM | 01:59 |
| jacekowski | i vaguely remember that there was a way of changing that key if you knew current key | 01:59 |
| jacekowski | as in, private part of current key | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 01:59 |
| jacekowski | so it may be shipped with some blank key | 01:59 |
| jacekowski | and then it's programmed | 02:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 02:00 |
| jacekowski | which makes sense | 02:00 |
| jacekowski | it's the way i would do it | 02:01 |
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| FIQ|n900 | guess this also renders what I asked about recently impossible. | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm sure about one thing: I'm not going to volunteer for new to install security taskforce at work | 02:01 |
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| jonwil | hi | 05:43 |
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| scp1 | I'm looking for an image viewer that doesn't suck as much as the internal one does. I was hoping I could get feh running, but it seems that's not available(?) | 09:41 |
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| jpinx | scp1: you can use the browser - it allows you to zoom ;) | 09:42 |
| scp1 | what browser? | 09:42 |
| jpinx | scp1: what device are you talking about? | 09:42 |
| scp1 | n900 | 09:43 |
| jpinx | scp1: the browser in the n900 will view image files and allow zooming | 09:43 |
| scp1 | but what do you mean browser? :) | 09:44 |
| scp1 | the internet browser or the file browser? | 09:44 |
| jpinx | internet browser | 09:44 |
| scp1 | well, that's not very nice | 09:45 |
| jpinx | "nice" is highly subjective ;) | 09:46 |
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| scp1 | this is for watching pretty girls so I'll have my hands busy, I'd at least need something that can slideshow the stuff for me. Now the builtin one allows that, but there's no way to configure the delay except for 'fast' and 'slow' (wtf?) | 09:48 |
| scp1 | ok, quiver seems to be a somewhat better alternative | 09:49 |
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| jpinx | Maemo5 version 3.2010.02-8.003 | 10:16 |
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| jpinx | how to update without reflash? | 10:17 |
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| Sicelo | you can do it OTA, altough i prefer flash | 10:23 |
| jpinx | Sicelo: what is OTA ? | 10:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Over The Air | 10:24 |
| Sicelo | over-the-air.. via your internet connection | 10:24 |
| andre__ | jpinx, go to App Manager > Update (and make a backup before updating) | 10:24 |
| jpinx | Sicelo: yes- but how to make my N900 do that? | 10:25 |
| jpinx | andre__: update does not offer anything about maemo version | 10:25 |
| Sicelo | then your repos are probably mangled, or give them time to refresh | 10:26 |
| jpinx | Sicelo: been waiting about a day already ;) | 10:26 |
| jpinx | Sicelo: how to chaeck the repos? | 10:26 |
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| Sicelo | either way, i really don't see what you gain by doing it OTA.. aiui, you'll still have to re-install your your applications whether or not you use OTA upgrade | 10:27 |
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| jpinx | where are the repos defined? | 10:28 |
| Sicelo | in App. Manager.. they're called Catalogs | 10:29 |
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| jpinx | Sicelo: thanks :) | 10:30 |
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| Sicelo | yw | 10:32 |
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| jpinx | Sicelo: but the sources are not visible unless there is an internet connection? | 10:47 |
| jpinx | sorry - catalogues ;) | 10:47 |
| narcos | Hey all. I'm looking for an external battery pack on Amazon.co.uk for my N900. Most options I find say that "this product is not compatible with N900 dumb USB charger". From reading various articles it seems there's some USB handshaking business that is required to go on with the N900. However, I've found the 'CA-146C' adapter, which goes from 2.5mm jack to mini USB. Has anyone had experience with this device? Or could recommend an external battery p | 10:47 |
| narcos | ack to go with the N900? | 10:47 |
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| Sicelo | jpinx: no. you don't need to be connected to view catalogs.. sometimes they take a while to appear (esp. if you have devl enabled) | 10:50 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | Any devs about? i am not a programmer but a somewhat "geeky" end user. I have some (limited) experience of building packages for deb (just the kernel really) on x86. I want to try out "mosh" but it looks like its not in any of the repos for Freemantle and its not in squeeze backports so I can't use it in a squeeze chroot. | 11:32 |
| HRH_H_Crab | my options therefore seem to be to try and build a deb for maemo or to try and build something for squeeze (armel). | 11:32 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i have found this: | 11:32 |
| HRH_H_Crab | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing | 11:33 |
| HRH_H_Crab | is this a reasonable starting point to try and figure out what i need to do or can someone give me some better pointers? | 11:33 |
| jacekowski | well, first thing to do is make sure it compiles and works | 11:34 |
| jacekowski | then worry about building packages | 11:34 |
| HRH_H_Crab | hmmm. | 11:34 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | so i probably want some sort of qemu based arm dev environment that i can mess around in without causing too much damage. | 11:36 |
| jacekowski | scratchbox | 11:36 |
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| jacekowski | then you can submit package to maemo autobuilder | 11:36 |
| jacekowski | and it will go into repo | 11:36 |
| HRH_H_Crab | ugh | 11:38 |
| HRH_H_Crab | i dunno if i have any 32 bit linux machines... | 11:38 |
| HRH_H_Crab | :P | 11:38 |
| jacekowski | you don't need 32bit | 11:38 |
| jacekowski | all you have to do is disable vdso | 11:38 |
| HRH_H_Crab | aah. | 11:38 |
| HRH_H_Crab | o.k. | 11:38 |
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| jacekowski | Linux jacekowski.org 3.2.13-grsec-xxxx-grs-ipv6-64 #1 SMP Thu Mar 29 09:48:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux | 11:38 |
| jacekowski | that's what i've got and it's working fine | 11:39 |
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| HRH_H_Crab | o.k. | 11:39 |
| HRH_H_Crab | this looks like it might be fun. | 11:40 |
| jacekowski | it is | 11:40 |
| jacekowski | just remember if you have vdso enabled it will crash and burn | 11:41 |
| jacekowski | without any warnings | 11:41 |
| jacekowski | you will just get random segfaults and other errors | 11:41 |
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| vizzy | moin moin. i followed the instructions on this site (1) for installing scratchbox and sdk on a debian based system with textbased install using debs. scratchbox install went fine but when running ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh and its wants to install .debs for the fremantle target i get tons of errors like Errors were encountered while processing: hal ke-recv hildon-application-framework-packages hildon-application-framework etc.....and it exits wit | 12:15 |
| vizzy | h E: Sub-process dpkg returned an error code 1 E: Unable to install maemo-sdk-dev on FREMANTLE_ARMEL target. (1) http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation | 12:15 |
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| r00t|home | vizzy: you skipped the useful part of the error messages | 12:33 |
| vizzy | r00t|home, ? | 12:33 |
| r00t|home | vizzy: all those just say that _something_ failed, the error itself is further up | 12:33 |
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| r00t|home | maybe pastebin the whole output | 12:33 |
| vizzy | k | 12:34 |
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| vizzy | http://pastebin.com/RD8hQLEL | 12:44 |
| vizzy | @ r00t|home | 12:44 |
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| vizzy | i wonder about those errors like: killall nt found and awk: fatal: could not find groups: Invalid argument | 12:47 |
| vizzy | sb is working, i can logi etc, but i guess my target is a bit broken | 12:48 |
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| vizzy | or is that stuff about hal not critical because of missing hardware :-)) ? | 12:48 |
| vizzy | im not a dev, just wanna install the sdk and check if i can compile some nice missing stuff for the n900 | 12:48 |
| vizzy | so in first place i need a working sdk :) | 12:49 |
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| gormux | hi all | 13:29 |
| gormux | I'm searching the wiki for infos on sync to a ldap server, but... found nothing | 13:30 |
| gormux | anyone using this type of sync ? | 13:30 |
| gormux | I'd like to build a ldap directory to sync with my webmail and maybe a heavy client supporting ldap directories | 13:31 |
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| andre__ | maybe via SyncEvolution, never tried | 13:35 |
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| kent_autistic | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1192719#post1192719 | 14:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | narcos: I'm using CA146 all the time with one of my N900. I wonder what this "not compatible with N900 dumb charger" might mean. It's no special dumb charger, it's a normal USB 5V powersupply with D+/- line short for signalling fastcharging to N900, according to an official USB spec. | 14:20 |
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| kent_autistic | is there anyway to reconnect wifi when it has been disconnected by the network? i use my n900 to download torrents and leave it overnight then get pissed in the morning finding out that the connection has been disconnected for some reason | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder if setting mail to chec every 10 mins owudl wojrh | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | woru | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | would work | 15:14 |
| jacekowski | torrents are not used for anything good | 15:14 |
| freemangordon | kent_autistic: settings->internet connection, turn "auto-connect" on and "switch to wlan when available" on | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kent_autistic: checkmark "[x] use WLAN if available" in settings-internet | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | kent_autistic: do NOT use any auto-disconnect app. If you already installed it, you may have to reflash, as it's obviously unclear how to completely revert the mess it's causing | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | kent_autistic: also see answer on tmo re kbd bl | 15:21 |
| kent_autistic | oooooooh so when i need it to stay connected i just have to configure those settings. then revert to not automatically connect when not downloading anything. seriously why didnt i think of that. | 15:21 |
| kent_autistic | thanks yall! | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | kent_autistic: why would you want to NOT connect to WLAN if you don't have anything to download? | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | kent_autistic: also I don't get it why your WLAN connection would get disconnected once its established | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you got some nasty auto-disconnect app installed, see above | 15:27 |
| kent_autistic | idk there are just times when my device suddenly gets disconnected | 15:27 |
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| kent_autistic | nope, no auto-dc here | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yeah. Sorry, I forgot, I see that as well occasionally | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I don't mind as all my devices are auto-connecting to WLAN whenever available | 15:28 |
| kent_autistic | i dont want auto connect all the time as it eats battery power by always refreshing and checking if there are available connections. right? | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on a decent AP that supports power saving mode aka PSM, the power consumption impact is minimal | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | To the extent that I get ~1 week on wifi with ssh connected | 15:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when you're roaming, the checking for available WLAN networks happens every 5..30 or 60 minustes, depending on your settings | 15:31 |
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| kent_autistic | yep and im sure that consumes power | 15:31 |
| kent_autistic | btw what does power saving mode do? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if you don't run the scan too frequently, it's also bearable regarding power consumption | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | PSM "suspends" the WLAN RX for extended periods of time, waking on a timer based schedule to listen if AP is announcing any data to be transmitted | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Without power-save mode, wifi recieve - idle - will drain the battery in about 8 hours | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | With it - a week | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | for this to work correctly, both the AP and the N900 have to sync their timers in WLAN chips, which is what fails on several crappy AP | 15:33 |
| kent_autistic | AP? | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | access point? | 15:34 |
| kent_autistic | ooh | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the thing with an antenna and a internet cable | 15:34 |
| kent_autistic | oh yeah i have one of those! | 15:35 |
| kent_autistic | :) | 15:35 |
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| * DocScrutinizer thinks of a soldier in one of the messaging tower in ancient times, who needs to watch next tower miles away whole night and day for light or flag signals. They for sure used sand glass to get 15 min off, then watch other tower for the other soldier signalling he turned his sand glass this moment and no further important message pending | 15:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer | PSM is just the same | 15:42 |
| kent_autistic | coolio ty! | 15:42 |
| * RST38h moos | 15:43 | |
| kent_autistic | but that doesnt affect wifi speed when im browsing or something right? | 15:43 |
| * Robot101 thinks of the family guy episode where they light a series of beacons... :) | 15:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer | no, as then your soldiers will enter busy mode and watch all the time | 15:44 |
| kent_autistic | got it | 15:44 |
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| vizzy | can the sdk and scratchbox installed on a debian lenny? | 16:09 |
| vizzy | i ask because i get tons of errors following the tutorials and howtos now for some days. | 16:10 |
| jpinx | my recently acquired 2nd hand n900 has maemo5 version 3.2010.02-8.003 and I checked the repos, but there is no offer to upgrade the OS when I ask the application manager to update. Am I missing something? | 16:11 |
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| Macer | vizzy: the sdk has always sucked.. there is an image floating around but some here might say it is a comp out | 16:15 |
| Macer | jpinx: did you update the repos? | 16:15 |
| StyXman | Macer: a «comp out»? | 16:16 |
| jpinx | Macer: yes - I copied them from my good working n900 | 16:16 |
| Macer | StyXman: "the easy route" | 16:16 |
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| Macer | jpinx: weird.. should still be on there somewhere.. you can always flash it with the latest | 16:17 |
| jpinx | Macer: I copied from the n900 running v 21.2011.38-1 | 16:17 |
| Macer | the repos should be the same for the most part | 16:17 |
| jpinx | Macer: I am being awkward and trying to avoid flashing ;) | 16:17 |
| Macer | unless nokia shut down maemo.org without telling anybody heh | 16:18 |
| Macer | i hate nokia to death but i still want an e7 | 16:18 |
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| jpinx | Macer: I updated my good n900 from the same repos, and it seemed to work ok | 16:19 |
| jpinx | I am now trying to get my 2nd n900 up to date | 16:19 |
| Macer | i can't remember what the latest maemo was | 16:19 |
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| Macer | the last official mameo | 16:19 |
| Macer | are you sure that isn't the latest nokia released version? | 16:19 |
| Macer | to get it up to date with cssu you have to install the cssu stuff | 16:19 |
| jpinx | Macer: I copied from the n900 running v 21.2011.38-1 | 16:20 |
| vizzy | ok, so i give it up.... argh :(( | 16:20 |
| jpinx | the one I am trying to update has maemo5 version 3.2010.02-8.003 | 16:21 |
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| jpinx | Macer: are there alternative repos? | 16:21 |
| Macer | PR 1.1.1 version 3.2010.02-8 | 16:23 |
| Macer | that is the latest official firmware | 16:23 |
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| Macer | if you had anything newer it was cssu | 16:23 |
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| Macer | so right now you are running the latest maemo released while nokia was still doing its job | 16:25 |
| Macer | type /topic and go to the community version to update further | 16:25 |
| jpinx | Macer: ok something odd here then because the n900 running 3.2010.02-8.003 also did not offer to update the os | 16:25 |
| Macer | it won't until you add the cssu update | 16:25 |
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| Macer | er.. repo | 16:25 |
| Macer | you have to go through the steps of adding the cssu tools in order to update the fw version yu're running now | 16:26 |
| Macer | the one you have is the latest offical release from nokia | 16:26 |
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| jpinx | Macer: I find cssu features configuration in the app mngr-- is that it? | 16:29 |
| Macer | follow the instructions in the wiki located in the topic | 16:30 |
| Macer | they are straightforward step by step instructions | 16:31 |
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| jpinx | Macer: ok - thanks :) | 16:31 |
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| Macer | it doesn't take too long | 16:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: please, don't tell nonsense | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | latest official full release is PR1.3, which got a SSU update to PR1.3.1 | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx: I strongly suggest you flash that thing with recent maemo | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | pr1.1.1 probably not even upgrade is supported anymore | 16:59 |
| Macer | DocScrutinizer: my bad. i was just going off the bins that were on nokia's site | 17:00 |
| Macer | i thought that was the latest | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ??? | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess you looked for VANILLA | 17:00 |
| Macer | i just looked for the one with the latest date | 17:00 |
| Macer | heh.. sorry | 17:00 |
| jpinx | :/ | 17:01 |
| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: ok ok :( | 17:01 |
| jpinx | ~flash | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas she's offline since >1day | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 17:04 |
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| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: yep - got that confusing page thanks :) | 17:04 |
| vizzy | ouch. i now found th evmdk images of the maemo sdk but they wont start :)) its really a pain to get a sdk running..... | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jpinx: >>Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 / PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2<< http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 17:08 |
| vizzy | ok, now i found the important hint! somewhere in the text it is hidden, the sdk image is for maemo4 diablo :P | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx: get that file, flash (in root shell) with flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f | 17:11 |
| vizzy | wtf? | 17:11 |
| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: is there a way to get my more recent 21.2011.38-1 version to update itself online? | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, you lost me | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | 21.2011.38-1 is as up-to-date as it gets | 17:13 |
| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: update without having to reflash | 17:13 |
| jpinx | in the future | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | SSU will offer any update to you in HAM | 17:14 |
| jpinx | SSU is what? - something I have to install? | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it's a process actually | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | seamless software update | 17:15 |
| jpinx | :) sounds good to me | 17:15 |
| jpinx | but presumably not up to making the jump from such an od version as I am trying to update? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | your maemo is checking for any updates every day, if you got connectivity | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't know why your pr1.1.1 doesn't offer updates. maybe your catalogs are incorrect | 17:16 |
| jpinx | I copied the catalogues from the uptodate n900 | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | the PR1.3 catalogs are not the right ones for PR1.1.1 | 17:17 |
| jpinx | Ooo - where do I get the right catalogues entries for PR1.1.1 | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't know. I guess except of extras catalog they might be same for 1.1.1 and 1.3 | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure about that though | 17:18 |
| jpinx | Hmm - the update threw no errors, but did not offer a Maemo5 update | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, I strongly suggest you flash to a known-good state rather than using any possibly messed up or even compromised OS you got with your used device | 17:20 |
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| jpinx | DocScrutinizer: understood- thanks for the advice :) | 17:21 |
| narcos | Hey all. I'd like to set up a captive portal on my N900 - so I can share my Internet, but people have to click 'agree' to some terms and conditions first. Any suggestions? | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, even if it would work, update 1.1.1->1.2->1.3->1.3.1 is a royal PITA and takes hours | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and at least 4 reboots | 17:27 |
| jpinx | 16:08 < DocScrutinizer> jpinx: >>Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900 / PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2<< | 17:30 |
| jpinx | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 17:30 |
| jpinx | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 17:30 |
| jpinx | 16:11 < vizzy> ok, now i found the important hint! somewhere in the text it is hidden, the sdk image is for maemo4 diablo :P | 17:30 |
| jpinx | 16:11 < DocScrutinizer> jpinx: get that file, flash (in root shell) with flasher-3.5 -F | 17:30 |
| jpinx | RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f | 17:30 |
| jpinx | Ooops - sorry :) | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wb infobot! \o/ | 18:00 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 18:00 |
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| peterbjornx | hello | 18:01 |
| peterbjornx | i got it working, maemo on sd | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 18:01 |
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| peterbjornx | no performance costs either | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | why should there be any? | 18:02 |
| peterbjornx | im using some cheap sd | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | loading program text is a rare event | 18:03 |
| peterbjornx | 2gb rootfs :) | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | swapping is way more of a bottleneck | 18:03 |
| narcos | So, I'd like to install lighthttpd to my N900. I see it listed here: http://maemo.org/packages/view/lighttpd/ . I suspect I need to add a repo to the phone ? | 18:03 |
| narcos | as if I search via apt-get I don't see it | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, doesn't it mention which repo it's in? | 18:04 |
| peterbjornx | only problem is that maemo kernel has a bug that breaks built in mmc driver when cpufreq is also built in | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: Fremantle Extras-testing free armel lighttpd 1.4.26-2 | 18:05 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: So, of the options listed how do we choose that one? Shall I add a repository on the phone somewhere, or just wget the .deb file to the phone? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | narcos: so you either add testing (or devel) repo to your catalogs, or you download the dpkg and install locally | 18:07 |
| script | oehm, schon wieder 17 uhr | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | oehm, indeed | 18:07 |
| script | sry .. E_WRONGCHAN ... | 18:07 |
| narcos | DocScrutinizer: OK thanks | 18:08 |
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| jpinx | peterbjornx: congratulations :) | 18:12 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: What's the web address for the Fremantle Extras-testing to add on the phone? http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/diablo_extras-devel_free_i386/ ? | 18:12 |
| narcos | That page seems more human readable than machine | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yu're probably using fremantle, not diablo | 18:13 |
| narcos | I'm not sure what you mean | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | also you definitely want armel, not i386 | 18:13 |
| narcos | So, I understand that software is distributed via repositories, and that if I want to download it I need to add a repository. I'm not sure where to find what repos I should be adding. | 18:14 |
| narcos | I have an N900, and want to add a repo that will allow me to install lighthttpd | 18:14 |
| narcos | I've found the catalogue list on the phone, and the place to add a new catalogue | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://repository.maemo.org/ | 18:14 |
| narcos | Gotcha | 18:15 |
| narcos | That was the answer I was looking for :) | 18:15 |
| narcos | I think I understand now | 18:15 |
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| narcos | Now, the difference between Freemantle and Diablo you mentioned? Are there different versions of lighthttpd on each, or something? Or are they just different repos offering different software? | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | diablo is OS for N8x0 | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka maemo4 | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | fremantle is maemo5 | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | narcos, you should have maemo extras installed by default, it is strange you don't have it enabled | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-testing http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: he has extras | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | but the package is in -devel? | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | he's missing -testing / -devel | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 18:18 |
| narcos | So, in the list under catelogues on the phone I see 'Maemo Extras,' Maemo Extras-Devel', 'Maemo Extras-Testing', two nokias and an Ovi | 18:19 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: OK - gotcha on the fremantle is code word for maemo 5 | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | narcos: if you got the *right* (NOT diablo) extras-devel repo enabled in Hildon App Manager, you should be able to install lighttpd | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suggest using HAM for managing catalogs | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAM isn't the fastest app manager, but the most 'compatible' one | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | messing with apt-get directly is a bit demanding on times | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and NEVER do upgrade or dist-upgrade | 18:24 |
| tadzik | +1 :) | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >>Thus, extras-devel is not something you should use unless you know what you're doing, and have no other option. However, if you absolutely must install something from it, then add the repo, install the app, and disable/remove the repo immediately. | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=431432#post431432 | 18:32 |
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| StyXman | I remember a friend who complained about Debian experimental because he dist-upgraded to it from stable... | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway on maemo even (dist-(upgrade on default repo is Bad | 18:41 |
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| narcos | DocScrutinizer: Sorry had a phone call - thanks for those pro-tips, dually noted :) | 18:58 |
| narcos | Gotta head home, catch y'all later. Thanks for the help! | 18:58 |
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| peterbjornx | 1gb rootfs free :d | 19:05 |
| peterbjornx | so any idea why mmc + cpufreq builtin crashes in set freq ? | 19:05 |
| peterbjornx | before init even runs | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas not, sorry | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't you get a dump of the kernel PANIC? | 19:17 |
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| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/16/moodys_downgrade_nokia_junk/ | 23:05 |
| RST38h | Cheers! | 23:05 |
| Sicelo | did you see Nokia's 'response'? | 23:06 |
| Sicelo | :P | 23:06 |
| RST38h | URL? | 23:06 |
| Sicelo | http://press.nokia.com/2012/04/16/nokia-comments-on-moodys-credit-rating-announcement/ | 23:07 |
| * RST38h isn't getting it | 23:08 | |
| Sicelo | heh.. i can't say more. /me never understands business talk | 23:09 |
| RST38h | I usually understand business/legal talk | 23:11 |
| RST38h | But not this particular release. Almost feels like their PR people finally went bonkers from unending butthurt | 23:11 |
| Sicelo | :D | 23:12 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I note that the legal crap at the end is about 20 times the actual content | 23:14 |
| RST38h | That too, but it is normal | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - make that 100 times. | 23:14 |
| RST38h | It is the first paragraph that makes me wonder about certain people sanity | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | As it's basically 'we're sitting on this large pile of cash, sacking people' | 23:14 |
| RST38h | "And Moody's thinks it is good, that is why they lowered us to Baa3 with negative outlook"? | 23:15 |
| RST38h | "And we love baaa because it reminds us of sheep!" | 23:15 |
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| villager | I figure that they mean that the new rating, even downgraded, is still "investment grade", which probably means "worth investing in", which is good? | 23:56 |
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