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| DocScrutinizer | let's see what's result of "start reboot" | 00:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | AHAAAA | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ts-click is back | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ts-vib is back as well | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | should've tried "killall mce" | 00:02 |
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| kerio | whoever made the boot-time date picker needs to be executed | 00:31 |
| kerio | (in PR1.2 at least) | 00:31 |
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| ShadowJK | That's probably the only use of clutter :) | 00:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm? | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | The GTK thing with hw accelerated graphics and smooth animation | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | the firstboot-datepicker slotmachine is the worst I've ever seen, right | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | everything else is "plain" gtk | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | It doesn't have enough drag, yeah :P | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | the selection doesn't stic | 01:56 |
| ShadowJK | k | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF was wrong with datepickers ala zenity --calendar | 01:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I#m 20 times as fast with sth like this, compared to fuckin slotmachine nonsense | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'd EVEN KNOW THE DAY OF WEEK | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | while with slotmachine, you'll most probably fail epically whe I ask you to meet for same 5 beer session in two weeks from now | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kill the GUI designers, with rusty knife | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | or whoever was responsible for that | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, in MTF they did it right, at least for time (can't recall date), and then QTM rushed in and wrecked it once more | 02:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer headdesks | 02:05 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | woeful fools | 02:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | datepicker in HARM settings is sooooo awesome | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and datepicker in HARM widget-gallery is such a crap | 02:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and DA CAPO TROLLAPO for the date tumbler years being a wraparound from 2020 to 2000 | 02:19 |
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| nox- | haha oh dear... | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thus thing actually is a GREAT **slotmachine** | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | prolly those addicts that burn 100s of EUR each day on the real slotmachines will adore this datepicker brainfuck design | 02:21 |
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| ShadowJK | But it's touchscrene, it slides, there's kinetics! And it's vsynced!!! ~~~droool | 02:28 |
| joga | ugh, yeah it's awful | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I suggest to come up with a competing concept: shoot the asteroids that have the right digits, when they're at the right location | 02:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...to form the date | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | beats slotmachine hands down, regarding drool factor | 02:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually the fistboot timepicker is the only good one I've ever seen on fremantle | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | while datepicker at same location is one of the worst ever - only HARM competes to it | 02:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and there only QTM date-tumbler, while MTF datepicker is really one of the best I've ever seen | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas MTF is deprecated | 02:43 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 08:51 |
| TiagoTiago | alright, i got my N900 back from the repairshop temporarily to try to recover my files and stuff (they fucked the somthing that talks to the screen, the screen itself is working, according tot he repair guy he tried a different board on the same screen and it works); using VNC or the RCA cable doesn't work, the resolution is crazy, very short and wide; SSH works; besides getting my files i... | 08:54 |
| TiagoTiago | ...would like to at least try to diagnose what the fuck happened to the display capabilities; any ideas? | 08:54 |
| TiagoTiago | Oh, and no USB, that is what made me bring it to the repairshop, dead USB; i can only use WiFi | 08:54 |
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| LaoLang_cool | cd palm | 09:33 |
| LaoLang_cool | sorry for noisy.. | 09:34 |
| TiagoTiago | is xrandr avaiable and safe to use with the N900? | 09:37 |
| TiagoTiago | btw, what does the following tells you? omapdss MANAGER error: dispc_setup_plane failed for ovl 2 | 09:38 |
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| TiagoTiago | Is there a way to force the N900 to switch it's display to a different resolution (even if it thiunks the current display device can't handle it) in a way that if somthing goes wrong the changes aren't saved for the next boot? | 10:47 |
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| TiagoTiago | Why the fuck does it think the screen wants to be at 720x8 ?! | 12:50 |
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| Sicelo | TiagoTiago: i wonder if they didn't mess your ribbon .. but i got 720x8 or sth. like that when running debian on my n900. problem was dbus not correctly populating /dev | 13:56 |
| TiagoTiago | Is it somthing that can be fixed by software? | 13:56 |
| Sicelo | i would return it.. to rule out hardware | 13:57 |
| Sicelo | TiagoTiago: i'' no guru.. also wait here for more knowledgeable people | 13:57 |
| TiagoTiago | I don't hold much hope on that repairshop, i'm returning it, but i would like to try to understand what happen while it's on my hands | 13:58 |
| Sicelo | debian would sometimes say it discovered a 196*14 screen, lol | 13:58 |
| Sicelo | start by examining your Xorg.log | 13:59 |
| Sicelo | Xorg.0.log, rather | 14:00 |
| TiagoTiago | "No Layout section. Using the first Screen section." "No screen section avaiable. Using defaults." | 14:01 |
| Sicelo | paste all of it somewhere.. | 14:02 |
| TiagoTiago | moment | 14:02 |
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| TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com/BVcPwxeh | 14:05 |
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| Sicelo | i don't know.. but your omapfb video memory is 32kB, as opposed to 1920kB on mine :/ | 14:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | Could it have burned off all those kilobytes and just think it is supposed to be like that? | 14:12 |
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| Sicelo | i'm not sure waht you mean.. but i'd still suspect your ribbon cable | 14:19 |
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| Sicelo | if you're sure it's fine, i'd reflash combined. | 14:20 |
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| Sicelo | but i'm sure the experts here, if you're patient, may find you a better diagnosis | 14:20 |
| TiagoTiago | no USB, that is why i took it to the repairshop in the firstplace | 14:20 |
| Sicelo | dang. i hear you 'can' flash from SD card .. not sure of the details... in any case, maybe you just need reinstall of dbus & xserver -- hypothetical guess | 14:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | I was hoping i was gonna be able to figure out what had happened to it...oh well, gonna leave the battery charging on the external charger and once it's full start copying my files to hand the device back to the repairshop for them to try to build a frankenstein with spare parts to at least give me back somthing in the same conditions as what i had left with them when my USB died... | 14:29 |
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| Sicelo | don't return it just yet.. someone will probably help you here | 14:31 |
| TiagoTiago | I still gonna be wasting lots of time copying my files over WiFi once the battery is full again | 14:32 |
| Sicelo | you say even tv out doesn't work? | 14:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | Yeah, and the resolution is that same crazy 720x8 via VNC | 14:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | EasyDeb's xrandr says the device is supposed to handle a minimum of 8x8 and a maximum of 720x720 | 14:40 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! Why is it that I lost wireless access after a system update? (via apt-get) | 15:50 |
| Hurrian | something went wrong | 15:52 |
| Hurrian | also, dist-upgrade is wrong | 15:52 |
| ebzzry | Prior to the update, no other things were done. | 15:52 |
| ebzzry | Hmm. | 15:52 |
| ebzzry | Why? | 15:52 |
| ebzzry | (i'm currently restoring from backups) im still interested to know why. | 15:54 |
| Hurrian | you used dist-upgrade? | 15:56 |
| ebzzry | ya | 15:56 |
| Hurrian | probably upgraded to a broken lib from some repo | 15:56 |
| ebzzry | hmm. technically, i used aptitude safe-upgrade | 15:56 |
| Hurrian | aptitude, even if it is smarter, is not the software servicing tool for maemo | 15:56 |
| Hurrian | nokia fucked up apt on maemo, doesn't work like it should on debian | 15:57 |
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| Hurrian | use command line upgrade only when necessary | 15:57 |
| Hurrian | otherwise, use ham/fapman | 15:57 |
| ebzzry | ok | 15:57 |
| Hurrian | g2g, sr2 | 15:57 |
| r00t|home | ebzzry: you are restoring from backups - without bothering to investigate how/why it's broken? | 15:57 |
| ebzzry | r00t|home: i am restoring from backups, yes. but not without bothering to investigate. | 15:58 |
| r00t|home | so you found it impossible to fix without restoring? | 15:58 |
| ebzzry | the phone's connectivity to the internet is critical, so i needed it backup up. i am curious what happened, because i will reproduce it. | 15:59 |
| ebzzry | r00t|home: i did not find it impossible. it was just that i had constraints. | 15:59 |
| r00t|home | good | 15:59 |
| ebzzry | if i can find what went wrong, then i will redo it. | 16:00 |
| ebzzry | redo what borked it. | 16:00 |
| ebzzry | i was about to ask hurrian what source does he have for saying that apt is broken on maemo5 | 16:01 |
| ebzzry | using gui tools for updating is time consuming. having to wait for fam for updates drives me nuts. | 16:02 |
| ebzzry | do you have insights on the issue? | 16:03 |
| r00t|home | nothing, sorrry | 16:03 |
| r00t|home | fam is horrible indeed... i wonder how it managed to be so slow... | 16:04 |
| ebzzry | ok. nevertheless, you raised a good question | 16:04 |
| r00t|home | *manages | 16:04 |
| ebzzry | i do not know with others, but i find it impossbible for ham to have a way to select multiple items for one operation. | 16:04 |
| r00t|home | and that, combines with the slowness, is fatal | 16:05 |
| ebzzry | with fam, whenever i do something, it performs updates. unfortunately, i do not have a spectacular connection | 16:05 |
| r00t|home | also, having to answer that stupid dialog for any 3rd-party package... | 16:05 |
| ebzzry | /sigh/ | 16:06 |
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| ebzzry | when i upgrade installed packages, i use apt-get or apitude. until earlier, i have been using apt-get or aptitude to upgrade the whole system. | 16:06 |
| ebzzry | i also do not know how to disable the annoying blinking icon that shows in the status area when updates to packages are available | 16:06 |
| r00t|home | iirc i read you can kill the update-checking thing... (consider possible waste of bandwidth, too) | 16:08 |
| ebzzry | do you have any links or links to links that i can go check out? | 16:08 |
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| Sicelo | customizing maemo section in wiki | 16:11 |
| ebzzry | thatks | 16:11 |
| ebzzry | thanks* | 16:11 |
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| Sicelo | also, ham is more preferable because it performs more complete checks on such things adependencies, etc. it's already ben mentioned here that maemo isn't debian | 16:12 |
| ebzzry | ok, sicelo | 16:12 |
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| ivap2 | Which is the best distro for installing maemo SDK ? The one in which scratchpad just works ! | 16:27 |
| ivap2 | debian ubuntu ? which version? | 16:27 |
| merlin1991 | any should wurk | 16:27 |
| merlin1991 | s/wurk/work/ | 16:28 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: any should work | 16:28 |
| merlin1991 | i've got it running on the current kubuntu (x64) without problems | 16:28 |
| ivap2 | 12.04 ubuntu beta ? | 16:28 |
| ivap2 | I have run it on Linux Mint debian edition and it kind of stops at installing maemo-sdk-dev . Gives a warning and suspends . I am using the GUI mode | 16:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | Could someone with a N900 upload a copy of your Xorg.conf please? | 16:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: your flex connector is defect | 17:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | The conector itself and not the cable that goes in it? | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: replacing xorg.conf helps nuttin, not even for proof | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: I like to think it's the board2board connector at end of flex, that plugs into mainboard | 17:05 |
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| TiagoTiago | Wouldn't that give me a workable screen to work via VNC? | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | fb is somewhat messed up when flex defect | 17:05 |
| TiagoTiago | And it won't help with TV out either i guess... | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know this definitely ;-D | 17:06 |
| TiagoTiago | No way to tell it to render the screen without hardware acceleration or whatever, just in software so i can use it via VNC? | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 17:07 |
| TiagoTiago | What about Xforwarding? If i can set my desktop machine to receive it, would that gimme a remote Hildon? | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | should | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | if that works with hildon at all | 17:10 |
| TiagoTiago | hm | 17:10 |
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| TiagoTiago | Now i need to figure out what switch on the BIOS of my desktop will let me boot Linux and hope the hard drive isn't fucked up in Linux partition... | 17:12 |
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| TiagoTiago | Btw, usually what causes this issues with the flex? | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | disassembly, or just nothing | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure a credit card pushed in between kbd and screen half will also do | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | usual root cause: poor quality of the cable | 17:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some time ago new flex cables were on fleabay or sth, for some 20 bucks | 17:20 |
| TiagoTiago | The repairguy, that likelly messed it up, says the issue is in the board itself | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | "cable" is a bit misleading, it's the whole "board" of the screen halve, incl camera, porx sensor, ALS, LED, mic, earpiece | 17:22 |
| TiagoTiago | i see | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if he didn't say "main board", he might still be correct | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't blame the repair guy, I for sure am no fool and it happened to me as well | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | some cables are crap | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | (I'm not all sure about the camera btw, might be a separate flex board connected to the main flex) | 17:26 |
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| TiagoTiago | Camera seems to sitll be working somewhat, at least from what i could see in the thin crunched strip that shows on the TV; the live image from the camera looks no worse than the hands video | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | front camera! | 17:27 |
| TiagoTiago | ah, lol | 17:28 |
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| TiagoTiago | that would probably be much more complicated to test in the current state of affairs | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | defects in earpiece/mic are testable I guess? | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | also LED is testable | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | all doesn't really help | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the symthoms are cleare same as with my broken FPC | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka "cable" | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka flex | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF? digitizers for 29$, 40$, 53$. I don't see the difference | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.acceport.com/advanced_search_result.html?keywords=nokia+n900&x=0&y=0 | 17:36 |
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| TiagoTiago | Sorry 'bout that, browser crashed | 17:37 |
| TiagoTiago | You got the crazy resolutions too when it happened with you? | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, on TV | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | absolutely same | 17:41 |
| TiagoTiago | What about VNC? | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | never tried | 17:41 |
| TiagoTiago | What about xrandr? | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wasn't very interested in doing anything like that. Look, the device been defect and basically unusable | 17:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | I see | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, the 40$ item seems to be a real LCD | 17:43 |
| TiagoTiago | That tail there is the flex? | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: http://www.halagsm.co.uk/Nokia-N900-Flex-Cable-Ribbon.1437 | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | the wide greyish-black thing is "the cable" | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.bestmobileparts.com/china-wholesale-new-camera-flex-cable-ribbon-flat-connector-for-nokia-n900_p1063.html | 17:54 |
| TiagoTiago | not the golden bit? | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: the most part of this flex goes into upper halve of your N900, and has camera, LED, earpiece, mic, ALS, prox, dunno what else | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | the grey part of it comes out of upper halve and has a connector at end | 18:01 |
| TiagoTiago | those parts don't sound all that flexible... | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the connector for sure isn't flexible, and that's part of the problem | 18:04 |
| TiagoTiago | Hm; i would expect the issue was the flexible parts being too brittle or prone to tearing. | 18:05 |
| TiagoTiago | would've expected* | 18:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.google.de/search?q=nokia+n900+flex+connector | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | amazing number of sellers | 18:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAH! http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/charging-connector/nokia/n900.html USB-receptacle!! | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | UK seller! | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | best prices as well, damn | 18:18 |
| TiagoTiago | I thought people just soldered those back into place again (at least when they didn't lose it) | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stylus €0.80 http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/stylus-pen/nokia/n900.html | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | min order: 5 | 18:24 |
| Scifig | Anyone able to remove uninstalled app icons that won't get deleted? The error message is "Application does not exist". There is no .desktop file in /usr/share/applications | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Scifig: there are other locations that have .desktop, as well | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | most notably, /usr/share/applications/hildon | 18:25 |
| Scifig | This is actually my own application, I don't deploy to hildon folder. | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 18:28 |
| Scifig | Sigh. Problems started after PR1.2 | 18:28 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests exploiting find | 18:29 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | HD probably does some caching on its own | 18:30 |
| Scifig | I just realized I am posting a harmattan question on #maemo channel. Haven't been on IRC for a while | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | also check for /home/user/.local/share/applications/hildon etc | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway thanks for the live example why we got #harmattan | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if we hadn'T got #harmattan, this chan would've drowned in a mess of mixing up questions like those when nobody realized they're talking completely different topic | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | <after 30 min of chat> "maybe it's related to aegis" "WTF, no aegis on my device!" | 18:36 |
| Scifig | Hehe. I was here in the initial days when people with N950s started aegis discussions. Not much fun for a core maemo user | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 18:38 |
| Scifig | I don't know if #N9 ever got as busy as #harmattan but I agree #harmattan and #maemo should be separate. | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the differences between fremantle and harmattan are subtle, but for sure relevant enough so usually any advice from one universe won't help much at the other | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is clearly a difference to the situation when N900 fremantle came out, and lots of stuff from diablo times still applied | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Scifig: #n9 is for end users, as the /topic states | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | while #harmattan is mainly a developer channel | 18:42 |
| Scifig | Yes, I used to drop into that #N9 channel once in a while. There was never much discussion. So I generally stick to #harmattan and #maemo | 18:43 |
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| lolcat | Hello | 19:38 |
| lolcat | Can I install mamo on a Samsung Galaxy Note? | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: you're no noob on maemo anymore! | 19:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: what do you think will be the answer to your question? | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess! | 19:39 |
| lolcat | Yes, but you'll have to write your own drivers? | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 19:39 |
| lolcat | Awesome | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | also you probably won't get any of the blob apps (dialer, contacts, calendar) to run | 19:40 |
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| lolcat | I think I'll buy it then, unless that new phone with meego is for sale | 19:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and you'll probably miss quite a number of closed middleware, like liblocation and whatnot else | 19:40 |
| lolcat | The one only for developers with a keyboard | 19:40 |
| lolcat | Is there no dialer I can hack? | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the realistic answer is "No way you ever get a decent maemo like fremantle to run on anything other than N900" | 19:41 |
| lolcat | That is so evil | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | you got better chances with nemo/<whatever> | 19:42 |
| lolcat | Make best phone ever -> stop producing it -> not let anyone else use it | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 19:42 |
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| lolcat | All they had to do to make me buy a N1000 would be to put a decent cpu/gpu and to fix the charger issues | 19:43 |
| lolcat | The design is perfect | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's kinda like if Qt - instead of opening the usage of their framework - had decided to forbid usage on KDE, once *all* of KDE stuff been based on it | 19:44 |
| lolcat | And we're not enough people to make our own dialer, and liblocation | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: basically Nokia suffered from cutdowns in their balance and shareholder value, so they couldn't afford non strictly mainstream projects anymore | 19:45 |
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| lolcat | DocScrutinizer: still, they could have given us the dialer | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | they friggin ought have given us the whole damn lot | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | after all we paid for it | 19:46 |
| lolcat | Would we be able to port it to newer phones then? | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, likely | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | modulo proper docs of "new phone hardware" | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (paid for it) even worse, we spent a lot of our unpaid free time into making maemo a success | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | which it finally became, evidently | 19:49 |
| lolcat | And soon there will be no working N900'eds | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | then Nokia killing it down basically, by not playing nice and opening their rather limited but essential contribution | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather they moved to "meego" aka HARM, which evidently is waaaay worse regarding closed parts | 19:50 |
| lolcat | China makes dialers all the time, does debian make the dialer more complicated? | 19:50 |
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| ShadowJK | what charger issues :) | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and again community jumped on the train and contributes, just to get raped after a year or two | 19:51 |
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| lolcat | ShadowJK: If you drop it on the floor in a bar it stops taking charge and you get the money back | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 19:51 |
| lolcat | I miss it though... | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: I got me device #3 2 days ago | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm still looking for #4 | 19:52 |
| lolcat | Can maemo run in a VM? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, same issue | 19:53 |
| lolcat | What is stopping it? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | best "VM" is scratchbox | 19:53 |
| lolcat | It won't run in a chroot either? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | no chroot will give it proper libisi to talk to random cellmo | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | or proper liblocation to talk to GPS | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | etc pp | 19:54 |
| lolcat | But I can't chroot it from ubuntu | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: if you want maemo fremantle, get a N900 | 19:56 |
| lolcat | I want something that looks like maemo, feels like maemo and is based on debian | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe N900 can run nitdroid, and ubuntu, SHR, and whatnot else - but no android device will run maemo fremantle | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | check out #nemo | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | the new #mer | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt it ever will reach anywhere, just like mer never really did, but that's your best chance anyway | 19:57 |
| TiagoTiago | I wonder how (un)successful a crowdsourced enterprise dedicated to delivering the stuff Nokia failed to in these last few years would be... | 19:57 |
| lolcat | #nemo is empty | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 19:58 |
| lolcat | How much do we need to make maemo? | 19:58 |
| Kaadlajk | #nemomobile | 19:58 |
| Kaadlajk | is the right channel | 19:58 |
| lolcat | Like, debian is already made | 19:58 |
| TiagoTiago | crowdfunded i mean | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't fly | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all I learnt about this sorta stuff | 19:59 |
| shanttu | DocScrutinizer, just saying in Finland we have plenty of N900's http://tinyurl.com/7ngh96s | 19:59 |
| lolcat | shanttu: Do you have æøå? | 19:59 |
| ShadowJK | åäö | 20:00 |
| lolcat | ShadowJK: Sweedish | 20:00 |
| ShadowJK | it says öø on keyboard | 20:00 |
| shanttu | lolcat,yes åäö | 20:00 |
| ShadowJK | and äæ | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | shanttu: thanks. I'm mainly interested in *new* ones now | 20:01 |
| lolcat | There are new N900? | 20:01 |
| shanttu | DocScrutinizer, ok. Good luck on hunting | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 20:01 |
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| lolcat | And can't we somehow *borrow* the code from Nokia? | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas not | 20:01 |
| lolcat | Probably easier to pay 50k to a Nokia employee than to reinvent the wheel | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: it's hard enough (basically impossible) to make a community-only aka ripped maemo work on N900. It's absolutely no option for anti vendor ports to other devices | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 50k approach might work | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you got 50k spare | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 20:03 |
| lolcat | Not really, but getting money can't be that hard | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe, that's what I thought when Openmoko_the_Inc stopped making phones, and we, the OM "community" leftover, planned how to go forward | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually now after almost 4 years, we see a valid successor device for OM Freerunner GTA02: www.gta04.org | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hard to sell 3 digit numbers of devices - chicken and egg problem. Too expensive in low numbers, so no customers to get to high numbers of devices built | 20:08 |
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| lolcat | No keyboard? | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolcat: do you think in 4 years anybody would even take notice when you announce "FINALLY we MADE IT: maemo fremantle now without any closed blobs and fully featured, running on errr N900" | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | "we expect porting to any *well documented* contemprary hardware is just a matter of months now, given we can find the developer crowd to form a 50 man team" | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | "future projects: make fremantel multitouch aware" (assuming mt is still fashionable in 4 years from now, maybe we got some completely differend paradigm for UI then) | 20:14 |
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| * ShadowJK orders more screen protectors | 20:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I tend to order some digitizers | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | they are just 20 bucks at http://www.gultek.eu | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://www.gultek.eu/_search.php?page=1&q=nokia+n900 | 20:21 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not confident I'd manage to swap them out :P | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | main flex: only 15 bucks | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | LCD 35 | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still wonder W*T*F is THIS: http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/digitizer-touchpad/nokia/n900-with-front-cover-complete.html -- look at the frame bezel where it should says "NOKIA", it's NOT supposed to look like that | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/should// | 20:25 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: I still wonder W*T*F is THIS: http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/digitizer-touchpad/nokia/n900-with-front-cover-complete.html -- look at the frame bezel where it says "NOKIA", it's NOT supposed to look like that | 20:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or maybe the photo is just complete crap, and that's not actually some weird frame | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: swapping the complete digitizer with mounting support should be easy enough | 20:29 |
| TiagoTiago | The lighting is very bad, and it is quite dusty inside, but if you look carefully it does seem the shapes are all there | 20:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | Imma try pushing the contrast way up and see what shows | 20:32 |
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| * DocScrutinizer still is puzzled comparing http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/digitizer-touchpad/nokia/n900-digitizer-with-Ui-frame-and-speaker.html and http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/digitizer-touchpad/nokia/n900-with-front-cover-complete.html | 20:33 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems one comes with (earpiece) speaker, while other one comes with front bezel | 20:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the LCD for 35 is a real bargain | 20:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and all from UK, not from HK \o/ | 20:36 |
| TiagoTiago | regarding the shape of the faceplate itself, it does look like both of them are the same, and pretty similar to the real thing | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I probably got fooled by the pretty poor photo | 20:37 |
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| * DocScrutinizer is tempted to get two main-flex, two digitizers (one of each flavour), plus one LCD | 20:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I spend lots of money for more crazy things every day | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | make that 3 digitizers (one of each flavour) :-D | 20:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this one is only 15 bucks: http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/digitizer-touchpad/nokia/n900.html | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hardly pricier than a decent protector | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/pricier/more pricy/. | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | meybe get me 5 styli as well, for giveaway ;-D | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, and a sliding unit | 20:45 |
| TiagoTiago | How much is the shipping and how certain are you that you're gonna receive what you're paying for? | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | no keymats :-< | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: it's EU | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | so basically next corner ;-) | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, with Ryan Air I could probably give them a visit to let them now, for less than the order costs | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | know* | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Or I ask speedevil to do that for me ;-D | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen speedevil | 20:48 |
| infobot | speedevil is currently on #harmattan (1d 7h 11m 46s) #edev (1d 7h 11m 46s). Has said a total of 28 messages. Is idling for 16h 4m 37s, last said: 'itsnotabigtruck: My n900 failed in year 1.5'. | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, if even speedevil is abandoning ship, we're doomed | 20:49 |
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| TiagoTiago | Talking about leaving, i'm not feeling well (i heard there is some bug doing the rounds 'round here latelly, probably got it), and i probably should try to catch up on my sleep schedule, i think 'ill be back later today, if not, then tomorrow, cya | 20:56 |
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| MrPingu | Hi | 21:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cya | 21:16 |
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| MrPingu | I installed bash3 from the repos | 21:22 |
| MrPingu | ran bash-setup for user and root | 21:24 |
| MrPingu | but my user denies to read my .bashrc | 21:24 |
| MrPingu | while the .bashrc in /root/ is working fine | 21:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's some strange messup in that | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, read man page of bash carefully, it has all the needed info to clear up things IIRC | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | and btw you probably don't want to make bash your default user shell | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | the age old rumour that this may break your boot still wasn't publicly disapproved | 21:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | all that claimed they did it without trouble finally turned out to not *truly* have replaced messybox by bash, for user | 21:33 |
| MrPingu | well I rebooted atleast more than once :P | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and your user account will come up with bash? | 21:34 |
| MrPingu | Yes ;) | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's basically not bash itself but the messybox tools that will break when replaced | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | AFAIK | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu: so your bash is in /etc/shells ? | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | and /bin/sh points to bash? | 21:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's quite a number of ways to fail one way or the other, to either of both sides | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | but basically it's installing of unix toolbox aka *utils that will finally make your device bootloop | 21:36 |
| MrPingu | 1|user@Nokia-N900|~]cat /etc/shells | 21:37 |
| MrPingu | ^^ | 21:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | from man bash: >> --norc Do not read and execute the personal initialization file ~/.bashrc if the shell is interactive. This option is on by default if the shell is invoked as sh. | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | MrPingu: hmm, yeah, no such file here as well | 21:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | toldya there's a bit to learn about shell invocation etc | 21:40 |
| MrPingu | http://www.maemo.org/community/maemo-users/bashrc_not_executed/ | 21:40 |
| MrPingu | Which file you talking about? | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | etc/shells | 21:41 |
| MrPingu | I have it | 21:41 |
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| MrPingu | Issue fixed ;) | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I had the issue that even messybox was reading .bash* files | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | which it clearly isn't meant to do | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | was due to the funny fact some fool added this to .profile IIRC | 21:46 |
| MrPingu | Well the danger comes in, when installing GNU core utils and then linking them... | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | what I said above, yeah | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I solved it by tweaking my $PATH for bash only | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and not making bash my default shell on user | 21:50 |
| MrPingu | I might want to do that too then | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's when I started noticing this messybox scripting bashrc shit, and learned hating it | 21:51 |
| MrPingu | can you change prompt of messybox? | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess you can | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno for sure | 21:52 |
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| MrPingu | Hmm I am gonna make sh default shell again... | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | first command after login is "bash" for me ;-) | 21:52 |
| MrPingu | and your root is set to bash too? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | a bit of an inconvenience, but ohmy | 21:53 |
| MrPingu | I have a seperate bash.desktop | 21:53 |
| MrPingu | only no way to start it via shift ctrl x then... | 21:54 |
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| MrPingu | I mean, as soon you type root in bash, it exits bash and opens BB root shell =( | 21:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I heard for root a messybox-free setup is supposed to be safe | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | haven't tested it yet | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the bootloop fsckup is with user cranking up X | 21:57 |
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| MrPingu | DocScrutinizer, how did you tweak $path for bash only then, as messybox reads bashrc files? | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd hope I have documented it at | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~jrtools | 22:00 |
| infobot | rumour has it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 22:00 |
| MrPingu | Have that page bookmarked alreayd :P | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, prolly not | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme pick it out for you | 22:01 |
| MrPingu | oh and messybox, does read my .bashrc file | 22:02 |
| MrPingu | I have edited prompt when running "root" | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | # ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for interactive shells. | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | #PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | PATH=$(echo $PATH|sed "s.:/usr/bin:.:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:.;s.:/usr/sbin:.:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:.") | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | export PATH | 22:03 |
| MrPingu | TY | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | # ~/.profile: executed by Bourne-compatible login shells. | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11 | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | export PATH | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | #if [ -f ~/.bashrc -a -n "$BASH" ]; then | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | # . ~/.bashrc | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | #fi | 22:04 |
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| MrPingu | are you talking about the /root/ or the /home/user/ one? | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | root this one | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I rarely use user on device | 22:05 |
| * DocScrutinizer <- fool | 22:06 | |
| MrPingu | How did you substitute the user then? XP | 22:07 |
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| MrPingu | Still don't like messybox is reading .bash files | 22:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's not exactly messybox is reading it, it's some BS in one of the .* scripts that get sourced by messybox | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | IIRC | 22:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | look at the commented out 3 lines of above quote of ~/.profile | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess originally it had only the plain . ~/.bashrc line | 22:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I actually forgot to document what I did back when | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if you could do that now, it for sure would be highly appreciated | 22:30 |
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| MrPingu | Well what do you mean by exactly document it? | 22:32 |
| MrPingu | What I did, is just comment out those lines ;) | 22:33 |
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| MrPingu | You did add $BASH ? | 22:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if you say it's not there at your file, then I probably added that part, yes | 22:49 |
| MrPingu | I made a txt with all the differences from original, to uncommented in my version, and your version | 22:50 |
| MrPingu | only .profile | 22:51 |
| MrPingu | .bashrc didn't look at it yet... | 22:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in bashrc I obviously changed PATH | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | to add gnu utils | 22:52 |
| MrPingu | I don't get why you uncommented that second line | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | which one? | 22:52 |
| MrPingu | #PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not what I wanted it to be | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | this way it would override e.g. /usr/local/* | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I prefer /usr/local/(s)bin to override everything else | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so >> PATH=$(echo $PATH|sed "s.:/usr/bin:.:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:.;s.:/usr/sbin:.:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:.") << is exactly what I like it to be | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I got no friggin idea which fool decided to add . ~/.bashrc to .profile | 22:56 |
| Macer | :) | 22:59 |
| Macer | http://maps.google.com/?t=8&utm_campaign=8bit&utm_source=yt | 22:59 |
| MrPingu | http://www.mediafire.com/?s954uc6o7wdrld0 | 23:03 |
| MrPingu | Differences between your, default and my files | 23:03 |
| MrPingu | g2g | 23:09 |
| MrPingu | cya! | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! 500 pictures downloaded, plus a felt 500 cookies to "esc", plus a popup window, for a download site to allow DOWNLOAD of 1.1k txt file, that even vanishes for "Invalid or Deleted File." notice once this friggin mediafire page finished loading | 23:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this seriously is worse than even friggin pastebin.com | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>It appears you are using an older browser. For a better experience when using MediaFire, we recommend you upgrade your browser.<< BWAHAHAHA | 23:19 |
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| nox- | oh yeah filehosters that dont just let you use wget... | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I need no friggin wget nor any filehoster to look at diff between 3 files of <1k each | 23:20 |
| nox- | indeed | 23:20 |
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