IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-03-31

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DocScrutinizerlet's see what's result of "start reboot"00:00
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DocScrutinizerts-click is back00:01
DocScrutinizerts-vib is back as well00:02
DocScrutinizershould've tried "killall mce"00:02
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keriowhoever made the boot-time date picker needs to be executed00:31
kerio(in PR1.2 at least)00:31
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ShadowJKThat's probably the only use of clutter :)00:33
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ShadowJKThe GTK thing with hw accelerated graphics and smooth animation01:56
DocScrutinizerthe firstboot-datepicker slotmachine is the worst I've ever seen, right01:56
ShadowJKeverything else is "plain" gtk01:56
ShadowJKIt doesn't have enough drag, yeah :P01:56
ShadowJKthe selection doesn't stic01:56
DocScrutinizerWTF was wrong with datepickers ala zenity --calendar01:58
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DocScrutinizerI#m 20 times as fast with sth like this, compared to fuckin slotmachine nonsense01:59
DocScrutinizerand I'd EVEN KNOW THE DAY OF WEEK02:00
DocScrutinizerwhile with slotmachine, you'll most probably fail epically whe I ask you to meet for same 5 beer session in two weeks from now02:01
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DocScrutinizerkill the GUI designers, with rusty knife02:02
DocScrutinizeror whoever was responsible for that02:03
DocScrutinizerhell, in MTF they did it right, at least for time (can't recall date), and then QTM rushed in and wrecked it once more02:04
* DocScrutinizer headdesks02:05
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DocScrutinizerwoeful fools02:06
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DocScrutinizerdatepicker in HARM settings is sooooo awesome02:09
DocScrutinizerand datepicker in HARM widget-gallery is such a crap02:10
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DocScrutinizerand DA CAPO TROLLAPO for the date tumbler years being a wraparound from 2020 to 200002:19
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nox-haha oh dear...02:20
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DocScrutinizerthus thing actually is a GREAT **slotmachine**02:20
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DocScrutinizerprolly those addicts that burn 100s of EUR each day on the real slotmachines will adore this datepicker brainfuck design02:21
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ShadowJKBut it's touchscrene, it slides, there's kinetics! And it's vsynced!!! ~~~droool02:28
jogaugh, yeah it's awful02:30
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DocScrutinizerI suggest to come up with a competing concept: shoot the asteroids that have the right digits, when they're at the right location02:38
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DocScrutinizerbeats slotmachine hands down, regarding drool factor02:39
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DocScrutinizeractually the fistboot timepicker is the only good one I've ever seen on fremantle02:41
DocScrutinizerwhile datepicker at same location is one of the worst ever - only HARM competes to it02:42
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DocScrutinizerand there only QTM date-tumbler, while MTF datepicker is really one of the best I've ever seen02:43
DocScrutinizeralas MTF is deprecated02:43
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TiagoTiagoalright, i got  my N900 back from the repairshop temporarily to try to recover my files and stuff (they fucked the somthing that talks to the screen, the screen itself is working, according tot he repair guy he tried a different board on the same screen and it works); using VNC or the RCA cable doesn't work, the  resolution is crazy, very short and wide; SSH works; besides getting my files i...08:54
TiagoTiago...would like to at least try to diagnose what the fuck happened to the display capabilities; any ideas?08:54
TiagoTiagoOh, and no USB, that is what made me bring it to the repairshop, dead USB; i can only use WiFi08:54
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LaoLang_coolcd palm09:33
LaoLang_coolsorry for noisy..09:34
TiagoTiagois xrandr avaiable and safe to use with the N900?09:37
TiagoTiagobtw, what does the following tells you? omapdss MANAGER error: dispc_setup_plane failed for ovl 209:38
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TiagoTiagoIs there a way to force the N900 to switch it's display to a different resolution (even if it thiunks the current display device can't handle it) in a way that if somthing goes wrong the changes aren't saved for the next boot?10:47
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TiagoTiagoWhy the fuck does it think the screen wants to be at 720x8 ?!12:50
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SiceloTiagoTiago: i wonder if they didn't mess your ribbon .. but i got 720x8 or sth. like that when running debian on my n900. problem was dbus not correctly populating /dev13:56
TiagoTiagoIs it somthing that can be fixed by software?13:56
Siceloi would return it.. to rule out hardware13:57
SiceloTiagoTiago: i'' no guru.. also wait here for more knowledgeable people13:57
TiagoTiagoI don't hold much hope on that repairshop, i'm returning it, but i would like to try to understand what happen while it's on my hands13:58
Sicelodebian would sometimes say it discovered a 196*14 screen, lol13:58
Sicelostart by examining your Xorg.log13:59
SiceloXorg.0.log, rather14:00
TiagoTiago"No Layout section. Using the first Screen section." "No screen section avaiable. Using defaults."14:01
Sicelopaste all of it somewhere..14:02
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Siceloi don't know.. but your omapfb video memory is 32kB, as opposed to 1920kB on mine :/14:11
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TiagoTiagoCould it have burned off all those kilobytes and just think it is supposed to be like that?14:12
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Siceloi'm not sure waht you mean.. but i'd still suspect  your ribbon cable14:19
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Siceloif you're sure it's fine, i'd reflash combined.14:20
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Sicelobut i'm sure the experts here, if you're patient, may find you a better diagnosis14:20
TiagoTiagono USB, that is why i took it to the repairshop in the firstplace14:20
Sicelodang. i hear you 'can' flash from SD card .. not sure of the details... in any case, maybe you just need reinstall of dbus & xserver -- hypothetical guess14:22
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TiagoTiagoI was hoping i was gonna be able to figure out what had happened to it...oh well, gonna leave the battery charging on the external charger and once it's full start copying my files to hand the device back to the repairshop for them to try to build a frankenstein with spare parts to at least give me back somthing in the same conditions as what i  had left with them when my USB died...14:29
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Sicelodon't return it just yet.. someone will probably help you here14:31
TiagoTiagoI still gonna be wasting lots of time copying my files over WiFi once the battery is full again14:32
Siceloyou say even tv out doesn't work?14:34
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TiagoTiagoYeah, and the resolution is that same crazy 720x8 via VNC14:34
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TiagoTiagoEasyDeb's xrandr says the device is supposed to handle a minimum of 8x8 and a maximum of 720x72014:40
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ebzzryHi! Why is it that I lost wireless access after a system update? (via apt-get)15:50
Hurriansomething went wrong15:52
Hurrianalso, dist-upgrade is wrong15:52
ebzzryPrior to the update, no other things were done.15:52
ebzzry(i'm currently restoring from backups) im still interested to know why.15:54
Hurrianyou used dist-upgrade?15:56
Hurrianprobably upgraded to a broken lib from some repo15:56
ebzzryhmm. technically, i used aptitude safe-upgrade15:56
Hurrianaptitude, even if it is smarter, is not the software servicing tool for maemo15:56
Hurriannokia fucked up apt on maemo, doesn't work like it should on debian15:57
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Hurrianuse command line upgrade only when necessary15:57
Hurrianotherwise, use ham/fapman15:57
Hurriang2g, sr215:57
r00t|homeebzzry: you are restoring from backups - without bothering to investigate how/why it's broken?15:57
ebzzryr00t|home: i am restoring from backups, yes. but not without bothering to investigate.15:58
r00t|homeso you found it impossible to fix without restoring?15:58
ebzzrythe phone's connectivity to the internet is critical, so i needed it backup up. i am curious what happened, because i will reproduce it.15:59
ebzzryr00t|home: i did not find it impossible. it was just that i had constraints.15:59
ebzzryif i can find what went wrong, then i will redo it.16:00
ebzzryredo what borked it.16:00
ebzzryi was about to ask hurrian what source does he have for saying that apt is broken on maemo516:01
ebzzryusing gui tools for updating is time consuming. having to wait for fam for updates drives me nuts.16:02
ebzzrydo you have insights on the issue?16:03
r00t|homenothing, sorrry16:03
r00t|homefam is horrible indeed... i wonder how it managed to be so slow...16:04
ebzzryok. nevertheless, you raised a good question16:04
ebzzryi do not know with others, but i find it impossbible for ham to have a way to select multiple items for one operation.16:04
r00t|homeand that, combines with the slowness, is fatal16:05
ebzzrywith fam, whenever i do something, it performs updates. unfortunately, i do not have a spectacular connection16:05
r00t|homealso, having to answer that stupid dialog for any 3rd-party package...16:05
ebzzry /sigh/16:06
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ebzzrywhen i upgrade installed packages, i use apt-get or apitude. until earlier, i have been using apt-get or aptitude to upgrade the whole system.16:06
ebzzryi also do not know how to disable the annoying blinking icon that shows in the status area when updates to packages are available16:06
r00t|homeiirc i read you can kill the update-checking thing... (consider possible waste of bandwidth, too)16:08
ebzzrydo you have any links or links to links that i can go check out?16:08
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Sicelocustomizing maemo section in wiki16:11
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Siceloalso, ham is more preferable because it performs more complete checks on such things adependencies, etc. it's already ben mentioned here that maemo isn't debian16:12
ebzzryok, sicelo16:12
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ivap2Which is the best distro for installing maemo SDK ?  The one in which scratchpad just works !16:27
ivap2debian ubuntu ? which version?16:27
merlin1991any should wurk16:27
infobotmerlin1991 meant: any should work16:28
merlin1991i've got it running on the current kubuntu (x64) without problems16:28
ivap212.04 ubuntu beta ?16:28
ivap2I have run it on Linux Mint debian edition and it kind of stops  at installing maemo-sdk-dev . Gives a warning and suspends . I am using the GUI mode16:31
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TiagoTiagoCould someone with a N900 upload a copy of your Xorg.conf please?16:41
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: your flex connector is defect17:03
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TiagoTiagoThe conector itself and not the cable that goes in it?17:04
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: replacing xorg.conf helps nuttin, not even for proof17:04
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: I like to think it's the board2board connector at end of flex, that plugs into mainboard17:05
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TiagoTiagoWouldn't that give me a workable screen to work via VNC?17:05
DocScrutinizerfb is somewhat messed up when flex defect17:05
TiagoTiagoAnd it won't help with TV out either i guess...17:06
DocScrutinizerI know this definitely ;-D17:06
TiagoTiagoNo way to tell it to render the screen without hardware acceleration or whatever, just in software so i can use it via VNC?17:06
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TiagoTiagoWhat about Xforwarding? If i can set my desktop machine to receive it, would that gimme a remote Hildon?17:09
DocScrutinizerif that works with hildon at all17:10
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TiagoTiagoNow i need to figure out what switch on the BIOS of my desktop will let me boot Linux and hope the hard drive isn't fucked up in Linux partition...17:12
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TiagoTiagoBtw, usually what causes this issues with the flex?17:13
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DocScrutinizerdisassembly, or just nothing17:16
DocScrutinizerfor sure a credit card pushed in between kbd and screen half will also do17:17
DocScrutinizerusual root cause: poor quality of the cable17:18
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DocScrutinizersome time ago new flex cables were on fleabay or sth, for some 20 bucks17:20
TiagoTiagoThe repairguy, that likelly messed it up, says the issue is in the board itself17:21
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DocScrutinizer"cable" is a bit misleading, it's the whole "board" of the screen halve, incl camera, porx sensor, ALS, LED, mic, earpiece17:22
TiagoTiagoi see17:22
DocScrutinizerso if he didn't say "main board", he might still be correct17:23
DocScrutinizerdon't blame the repair guy, I for sure am no fool and it happened to me as well17:23
DocScrutinizersome cables are crap17:23
DocScrutinizer(I'm not all sure about the camera btw, might be a separate flex board connected to the main flex)17:26
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TiagoTiagoCamera seems to sitll be working somewhat, at least from what i could see in the thin crunched strip that shows on the TV;  the live image from the camera looks no worse than the hands video17:27
DocScrutinizerfront camera!17:27
TiagoTiagoah, lol17:28
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TiagoTiagothat would probably be much more complicated to test in the current state of affairs17:28
DocScrutinizerdefects in earpiece/mic are testable I guess?17:29
DocScrutinizeralso LED is testable17:29
DocScrutinizerall doesn't really help17:29
DocScrutinizerthe symthoms are cleare same as with my broken FPC17:29
DocScrutinizeraka "cable"17:29
DocScrutinizeraka flex17:30
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DocScrutinizerWTF? digitizers for 29$, 40$, 53$. I don't see the difference17:36
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TiagoTiagoSorry 'bout that, browser crashed17:37
TiagoTiagoYou got the crazy resolutions too when it happened with you?17:40
DocScrutinizeryes, on TV17:40
DocScrutinizerabsolutely same17:41
TiagoTiagoWhat about VNC?17:41
DocScrutinizernever tried17:41
TiagoTiagoWhat about xrandr?17:41
DocScrutinizerI wasn't very interested in doing anything like that. Look, the device been defect and basically unusable17:42
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TiagoTiagoI see17:42
DocScrutinizeraaah, the 40$ item seems to be a real LCD17:43
TiagoTiagoThat tail there is the flex?17:47
DocScrutinizerthe wide greyish-black thing is "the cable"17:53
TiagoTiagonot the golden bit?17:54
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: the most part of this flex goes into upper halve of your N900, and has camera, LED, earpiece, mic, ALS, prox, dunno what else18:01
DocScrutinizerthe grey part of it comes out of upper halve and has a connector at end18:01
TiagoTiagothose parts don't sound all that flexible...18:01
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DocScrutinizerthe connector for sure isn't flexible, and that's part of the problem18:04
TiagoTiagoHm; i would expect the issue was the flexible parts being too brittle or prone to tearing.18:05
TiagoTiagowould've expected*18:05
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DocScrutinizeramazing number of sellers18:13
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DocScrutinizerHAH! USB-receptacle!!18:17
DocScrutinizerUK seller!18:17
DocScrutinizerbest prices as well, damn18:18
TiagoTiagoI thought people just soldered those back into place again (at least when they didn't lose it)18:18
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DocScrutinizerStylus €0.80
DocScrutinizermin order: 518:24
ScifigAnyone able to remove uninstalled app icons that won't get deleted? The error message is "Application does not exist". There is no .desktop file in /usr/share/applications18:24
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DocScrutinizerScifig: there are other locations that have .desktop, as well18:25
DocScrutinizermost notably, /usr/share/applications/hildon18:25
ScifigThis is actually my own application, I don't deploy to hildon folder.18:26
ScifigSigh. Problems started after PR1.218:28
* DocScrutinizer suggests exploiting find18:29
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DocScrutinizerHD probably does some caching on its own18:30
ScifigI just realized I am posting a harmattan question on #maemo channel. Haven't been on IRC for a while18:31
DocScrutinizeralso check for /home/user/.local/share/applications/hildon etc18:31
DocScrutinizeranyway thanks for the live example why we got #harmattan18:32
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DocScrutinizerif we hadn'T got #harmattan, this chan would've drowned in a mess of mixing up questions like those when nobody realized they're talking completely different topic18:34
DocScrutinizer<after 30 min of chat> "maybe it's related to aegis" "WTF, no aegis on my device!"18:36
ScifigHehe. I was here in the initial days when people with N950s started aegis discussions. Not much fun for a core maemo user18:38
ScifigI don't know if #N9 ever got as busy as #harmattan but I agree #harmattan and #maemo should be separate.18:38
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DocScrutinizerthe differences between fremantle and harmattan are subtle, but for sure relevant enough so usually any advice from one universe won't help much at the other18:39
DocScrutinizerthis is clearly a difference to the situation when N900 fremantle came out, and lots of stuff from diablo times still applied18:40
DocScrutinizerScifig: #n9 is for end users, as the /topic states18:42
DocScrutinizerwhile #harmattan is mainly a developer channel18:42
ScifigYes, I used to drop into that #N9 channel once in a while. There was never much discussion. So I generally stick to #harmattan and #maemo18:43
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lolcatCan I install mamo on a Samsung Galaxy Note?19:38
DocScrutinizerlolcat: you're no noob on maemo anymore!19:39
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DocScrutinizerlolcat: what do you think will be the answer to your question?19:39
lolcatYes, but you'll have to write your own drivers?19:39
DocScrutinizeralso you probably won't get any of the blob apps (dialer, contacts, calendar) to run19:40
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lolcatI think I'll buy it then, unless that new phone with meego is for sale19:40
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DocScrutinizerand you'll probably miss quite a number of closed middleware, like liblocation and whatnot else19:40
lolcatThe one only for developers with a keyboard19:40
lolcatIs there no dialer I can hack?19:41
DocScrutinizerso the realistic answer is "No way you ever get a decent maemo like fremantle to run on anything other than N900"19:41
lolcatThat is so evil19:42
DocScrutinizeryou got better chances with nemo/<whatever>19:42
lolcatMake best phone ever -> stop producing  it -> not let anyone else use it19:42
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lolcatAll they had to do to make me buy a N1000 would be to put a decent cpu/gpu and to fix the charger issues19:43
lolcatThe design is perfect19:43
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DocScrutinizerit's kinda like if Qt  - instead of opening the usage of their framework - had decided to forbid usage on KDE, once *all* of KDE stuff been based on it19:44
lolcatAnd we're not enough people to make our own dialer, and liblocation19:44
DocScrutinizerlolcat: basically Nokia suffered from cutdowns in their balance and shareholder value, so they couldn't afford non strictly mainstream projects anymore19:45
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lolcatDocScrutinizer: still, they could have given us the dialer19:46
DocScrutinizerthey friggin ought have given us the whole damn lot19:46
DocScrutinizerafter all we paid for it19:46
lolcatWould we be able to port it to newer phones then?19:46
DocScrutinizeryes, likely19:47
DocScrutinizermodulo proper docs of "new phone hardware"19:47
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DocScrutinizer(paid for it) even worse, we spent a lot of our unpaid free time into making maemo a success19:48
DocScrutinizerwhich it finally became, evidently19:49
lolcatAnd soon there will be no working N900'eds19:49
DocScrutinizerthen Nokia killing it down basically, by not playing nice and opening their rather limited but essential contribution19:49
DocScrutinizerrather they moved to "meego" aka HARM, which evidently is waaaay worse regarding closed parts19:50
lolcatChina makes dialers all the  time, does debian make the dialer more complicated?19:50
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ShadowJKwhat charger issues :)19:51
DocScrutinizerand again community jumped on the train and contributes, just to get raped after a year or two19:51
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lolcatShadowJK: If you drop it on the floor in a bar it stops taking charge and you get the money back19:51
lolcatI miss it though...19:52
DocScrutinizerlolcat: I got me device #3 2 days ago19:52
DocScrutinizerand I'm still looking for #419:52
lolcatCan maemo run in a VM?19:53
DocScrutinizernope, same issue19:53
lolcatWhat is stopping it?19:53
DocScrutinizerbest "VM" is scratchbox19:53
lolcatIt won't run in a chroot either?19:53
DocScrutinizerno chroot will give it proper libisi to talk to random cellmo19:54
DocScrutinizeror proper liblocation to talk to GPS19:54
DocScrutinizeretc pp19:54
lolcatBut I can't chroot it from ubuntu19:55
DocScrutinizerlolcat: if you want maemo fremantle, get a N90019:56
lolcatI want something that looks like maemo, feels like maemo and is based on debian19:56
DocScrutinizermaybe N900 can run nitdroid, and ubuntu, SHR, and whatnot else - but no android device will run maemo fremantle19:56
DocScrutinizercheck out #nemo19:57
DocScrutinizerthe new #mer19:57
DocScrutinizerI doubt it ever will reach anywhere, just like mer never really did, but that's your best chance anyway19:57
TiagoTiagoI wonder how (un)successful a crowdsourced enterprise dedicated to delivering the stuff Nokia failed to in these last few years would be...19:57
lolcat#nemo is empty19:58
lolcatHow much do we need to make maemo?19:58
Kaadlajkis the right channel19:58
lolcatLike, debian is already made19:58
TiagoTiagocrowdfunded i mean19:58
DocScrutinizerwon't fly19:58
DocScrutinizerfor all I learnt about this sorta stuff19:59
shanttuDocScrutinizer, just saying in Finland we have plenty of N900's
lolcatshanttu: Do you have æøå?19:59
lolcatShadowJK: Sweedish20:00
ShadowJKit says öø on keyboard20:00
shanttulolcat,yes åäö20:00
ShadowJKand äæ20:00
DocScrutinizershanttu: thanks. I'm mainly interested in *new* ones now20:01
lolcatThere are new N900?20:01
shanttuDocScrutinizer, ok. Good luck on hunting20:01
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lolcatAnd can't we somehow *borrow* the code from Nokia?20:01
DocScrutinizeralas not20:01
lolcatProbably easier to pay 50k to a Nokia employee than to reinvent the wheel20:02
DocScrutinizerlolcat: it's hard enough (basically impossible) to make a community-only aka ripped maemo work on N900. It's absolutely no option for anti vendor ports to other devices20:03
DocScrutinizerthe 50k approach might work20:03
DocScrutinizerif you got 50k spare20:03
lolcatNot really, but getting money can't  be that hard20:05
DocScrutinizerhehehe, that's what I thought when Openmoko_the_Inc stopped making phones, and we, the OM "community" leftover, planned how to go forward20:06
DocScrutinizeractually now after almost 4 years, we see a valid successor device for OM Freerunner GTA02: www.gta04.org20:07
DocScrutinizerhard to sell 3 digit numbers of devices - chicken and egg problem. Too expensive in low numbers, so no customers to get to high numbers of devices built20:08
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lolcatNo keyboard?20:09
DocScrutinizerlolcat: do you think in 4 years anybody would even take notice when you announce "FINALLY we MADE IT: maemo fremantle now without any closed blobs and fully featured, running on errr N900"20:10
DocScrutinizer"we expect porting to any *well documented* contemprary hardware is just a matter of months now, given we can find the developer crowd to form a 50 man team"20:11
DocScrutinizer"future projects: make fremantel multitouch aware" (assuming mt is still fashionable in 4 years from now, maybe we got some completely differend paradigm for UI then)20:14
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* ShadowJK orders more screen protectors20:19
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I tend to order some digitizers20:19
DocScrutinizerthey are just 20 bucks at  http://www.gultek.eu20:20
ShadowJKI'm not confident I'd manage to swap them out :P20:21
DocScrutinizermain flex: only 15 bucks20:21
DocScrutinizerLCD 3520:22
DocScrutinizerI still wonder W*T*F is THIS: -- look at the frame bezel where it should says "NOKIA", it's NOT supposed to look like that20:25
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: I still wonder W*T*F is THIS: -- look at the frame bezel where it  says "NOKIA", it's NOT supposed to look like that20:25
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DocScrutinizeror maybe the photo is just complete crap, and that's not actually some weird frame20:28
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: swapping the complete digitizer with mounting support should be easy enough20:29
TiagoTiagoThe lighting is very bad, and it is quite dusty inside, but if you look carefully it does seem the shapes are all there20:31
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TiagoTiagoImma try pushing the contrast way up and see what shows20:32
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* DocScrutinizer still is puzzled comparing and
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DocScrutinizerseems one comes with (earpiece) speaker, while other one comes with front bezel20:34
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DocScrutinizerthe LCD for 35 is a real bargain20:36
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DocScrutinizerand all from UK, not from HK \o/20:36
TiagoTiagoregarding the shape of the faceplate itself, it does look like both of them are the same, and  pretty similar to the real thing20:37
DocScrutinizeryeah, I probably got fooled by the pretty poor photo20:37
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* DocScrutinizer is tempted to get two main-flex, two digitizers (one of each flavour), plus one LCD20:40
DocScrutinizerI spend lots of money for more crazy things every day20:40
DocScrutinizermake that 3 digitizers (one of each flavour) :-D20:41
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DocScrutinizerthis one is only 15 bucks:
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DocScrutinizerhardly pricier than a decent protector20:42
DocScrutinizers/pricier/more pricy/.20:43
DocScrutinizermeybe get me 5 styli as well, for giveaway ;-D20:44
DocScrutinizerooh, and a sliding unit20:45
TiagoTiagoHow much is the shipping and how certain are you that you're gonna receive what you're paying for?20:45
DocScrutinizerno keymats :-<20:45
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: it's EU20:46
DocScrutinizerso basically next corner ;-)20:46
DocScrutinizerhell, with Ryan Air I could probably give them a visit to let them now, for less than the order costs20:47
DocScrutinizerOr I ask speedevil to do that for me ;-D20:48
DocScrutinizer~seen speedevil20:48
infobotspeedevil is currently on #harmattan (1d 7h 11m 46s) #edev (1d 7h 11m 46s). Has said a total of 28 messages. Is idling for 16h 4m 37s, last said: 'itsnotabigtruck: My n900 failed in year 1.5'.20:48
DocScrutinizerdang, if even speedevil is abandoning ship, we're doomed20:49
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TiagoTiagoTalking about leaving, i'm not feeling well (i heard there is some bug doing the rounds 'round here latelly, probably got it), and i probably should try to catch up on my sleep schedule, i think 'ill be back later today, if not, then tomorrow, cya20:56
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MrPinguI installed bash3 from the repos21:22
MrPinguran bash-setup for user and root21:24
MrPingubut my user denies to read my .bashrc21:24
MrPinguwhile the .bashrc in /root/ is working fine21:24
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DocScrutinizerthere's some strange messup in that21:30
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DocScrutinizeranyway, read man page of bash carefully, it has all the needed info to clear up things IIRC21:31
DocScrutinizerand btw you probably don't want to make bash your default user shell21:31
DocScrutinizerthe age old rumour that this may break your boot still wasn't publicly disapproved21:32
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DocScrutinizerall that claimed they did it without trouble finally turned out to not *truly* have replaced messybox by bash, for user21:33
MrPinguwell I rebooted atleast more than once :P21:33
DocScrutinizerand your user account will come up with bash?21:34
MrPinguYes ;)21:34
DocScrutinizerit's basically not bash itself but the messybox tools that will break when replaced21:34
DocScrutinizerMrPingu: so your bash is in /etc/shells ?21:34
DocScrutinizerand /bin/sh points to bash?21:35
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DocScrutinizerthere's quite a number of ways to fail one way or the other, to either of both sides21:35
DocScrutinizerbut basically it's installing of unix toolbox aka *utils that will finally make your device bootloop21:36
MrPingu1|user@Nokia-N900|~]cat /etc/shells21:37
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DocScrutinizerfrom man bash: >> --norc Do not read and execute the personal initialization file ~/.bashrc  if  the  shell  is  interactive.   This              option is on by default if the shell is invoked as sh.21:38
DocScrutinizerMrPingu: hmm, yeah, no such file here as well21:39
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DocScrutinizertoldya there's a bit to learn about shell invocation etc21:40
MrPinguWhich file you talking about?21:40
MrPinguI have it21:41
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MrPinguIssue fixed ;)21:43
DocScrutinizerwell, I had the issue that even messybox was reading .bash* files21:45
DocScrutinizerwhich it clearly isn't meant to do21:45
DocScrutinizerwas due to the funny fact some fool added this to .profile IIRC21:46
MrPinguWell the danger comes in, when installing  GNU core utils and then linking them...21:49
DocScrutinizerwhat I said above, yeah21:50
DocScrutinizerI solved it by tweaking my $PATH for bash only21:50
DocScrutinizerand not making bash my default shell on user21:50
MrPinguI might want to do that too then21:50
DocScrutinizerthat's when I started noticing this messybox scripting bashrc shit, and learned hating it21:51
MrPingucan you change prompt of messybox?21:51
DocScrutinizerI'd guess you can21:51
DocScrutinizerdunno for sure21:52
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MrPinguHmm I am gonna make sh default shell again...21:52
DocScrutinizerfirst command after login is "bash" for me ;-)21:52
MrPinguand your root is set to bash too?21:53
DocScrutinizera bit of an inconvenience, but ohmy21:53
MrPinguI have a seperate bash.desktop21:53
MrPinguonly no way to start it via shift ctrl x then...21:54
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MrPinguI mean, as soon you type root in bash, it exits bash and opens BB root shell =(21:55
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DocScrutinizerI heard for root a messybox-free setup is supposed to be safe21:57
DocScrutinizerhaven't tested it yet21:57
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DocScrutinizerthe bootloop fsckup is with user cranking up X21:57
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MrPinguDocScrutinizer, how did you tweak $path for bash only then, as messybox reads bashrc files?22:00
DocScrutinizerI'd hope I have documented it at22:00
infobotrumour has it, jrtools is
MrPinguHave that page bookmarked alreayd :P22:01
DocScrutinizerhmm, prolly not22:01
DocScrutinizerlemme pick it out for you22:01
MrPinguoh and messybox, does read my .bashrc file22:02
MrPinguI have edited prompt when running "root"22:03
DocScrutinizer# ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for interactive shells.22:03
DocScrutinizerPATH=$(echo $PATH|sed "s.:/usr/bin:.:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:.;s.:/usr/sbin:.:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:.")22:03
DocScrutinizerexport PATH22:03
DocScrutinizer# ~/.profile: executed by Bourne-compatible login shells.22:04
DocScrutinizerexport PATH22:04
DocScrutinizer#if [ -f ~/.bashrc -a -n "$BASH" ]; then22:04
DocScrutinizer#  . ~/.bashrc22:04
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MrPinguare you talking about the /root/ or the /home/user/ one?22:05
DocScrutinizerroot this one22:05
DocScrutinizerI rarely use user on device22:05
* DocScrutinizer <- fool22:06
MrPinguHow did you substitute the user then? XP22:07
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MrPinguStill don't like messybox is reading .bash files22:09
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DocScrutinizerit's not exactly messybox is reading it, it's some BS in one of the .* scripts that get sourced by messybox22:28
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DocScrutinizerlook at the commented out 3 lines of above quote of ~/.profile22:28
DocScrutinizerI guess originally it had only the plain  . ~/.bashrc line22:29
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DocScrutinizerI actually forgot to document what I did back when22:30
DocScrutinizerso if you could do that now, it for sure would be highly appreciated22:30
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MrPinguWell what do you mean by exactly document it?22:32
MrPinguWhat I did, is just comment out those lines ;)22:33
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MrPinguYou did add $BASH ?22:36
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DocScrutinizerif you say it's not there at your file, then I probably added that part, yes22:49
MrPinguI made a txt with all the differences from original, to uncommented in my version, and your version22:50
MrPinguonly .profile22:51
MrPingu.bashrc didn't look at it yet...22:51
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DocScrutinizerin bashrc I obviously changed PATH22:51
DocScrutinizerto add gnu utils22:52
MrPinguI don't get why you uncommented that second line22:52
DocScrutinizerwhich one?22:52
DocScrutinizerit's not what I wanted it to be22:53
DocScrutinizerthis way it would override e.g. /usr/local/*22:53
DocScrutinizerI prefer /usr/local/(s)bin to override everything else22:54
DocScrutinizerso >> PATH=$(echo $PATH|sed "s.:/usr/bin:.:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:.;s.:/usr/sbin:.:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:.") << is exactly what I like it to be22:55
DocScrutinizerand I got no friggin idea which fool decided to add . ~/.bashrc to .profile22:56
MrPinguDifferences between your, default and my files23:03
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DocScrutinizerWTF?! 500 pictures downloaded, plus a felt 500 cookies to "esc", plus a popup window, for a download site to allow DOWNLOAD of 1.1k txt file, that even vanishes for "Invalid or Deleted File." notice once this friggin mediafire page finished loading23:17
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DocScrutinizerthis seriously is worse than even friggin pastebin.com23:18
DocScrutinizer>>It appears you are using an older browser. For a better experience when using MediaFire, we recommend you upgrade your browser.<< BWAHAHAHA23:19
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nox-oh yeah filehosters that dont just let you use wget...23:20
DocScrutinizerI need no friggin wget nor any filehoster to look at diff between 3 files of <1k each23:20
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