| ShadowJK | Yeah it's just part of the sudden modem failure on my N900 :) | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| ShadowJK | All of emmc, mmc1, $home, and a maemo backup moved over to spare N900. Now I'm all out of spares :( | 00:02 |
| * ShadowJK goes back to checking ebay | 00:02 | |
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| Hurrian | wonder where the cellmo commonly breaks on the n900 | 00:06 |
| Hurrian | does the chip just fall off? | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | It's likely a failing bond on one of the chips. | 00:07 |
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| Hurrian | it's weird in the sense that in all my years of using nokias, the screen would prolly breaks before anything else, with internal electronics last | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or possibly connectors | 00:07 |
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| Hurrian | g2g, time sink | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | concept: dang, mine is from 97 | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: Hurrian|skyrim: support my effort to get some decent info out of Nokia - they definitely have more info on the root cause of that problem than they disclose to us | 00:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and goddamn this device is no 3 years old | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite obviously another design- or production-failure | 00:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just like USB | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not willing to accept that high priced electronics nowaday are considered doomed to die after 18 months | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | my Nokia 6210 worked 10 years, even with original battery | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and wasn't a single complete day off during that timespan | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | my HiFi equipment is partially older than 20 years, and works just fine | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't think a smartphone with a pricetag that makes laptops blush is meant to break after less than 2 years of careful usage | 00:26 |
| ThreeM | make money :) | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | since Nokia in their eternal wisdom decided not to continue production of N900 and also obviously didn't take care to have sufficient amount of spare devices and parts held on stock, they friggin bloody shall give us info how to fix the shit without their stinking help | 00:28 |
| ThreeM | and make maemo on 900 complete open | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | won't happen . IP issues | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | a lot of stuff obviously been developed by Collabora et al, and Nokia probably never helf | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | held the rights on source | 00:31 |
| ThreeM | :/ | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Collabora mustn't disclose as it's been contract work for Nokia. Nokia mustn't disclose as Collabora holds the (C) of sourcecode still | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/Collabora/$random-other-3rd-party/ | 00:33 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: $random-other-3rd-party mustn't disclose as it's been contract work for Nokia. Nokia mustn't disclose as Collabora holds the (C) of sourcecode still | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/Collabora/$random-other-3rd-party/g | 00:33 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: $random-other-3rd-party mustn't disclose as it's been contract work for Nokia. Nokia mustn't disclose as $random-other-3rd-party holds the (C) of sourcecode still | 00:33 |
| ThreeM | i got it ;) | 00:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even if Nokia was in full posession of (C), Elop and Balmer will forbid spending manpower of lawyers' department on looking into stuff and check if it's safe to disclose it. Hell they don't even have the inhouse knowhow anymore, to do that, I'd guess | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | they had when meego was flourishing, as you can prove by looking for code donations of e.g mce and whatnot else. Nowadays not even harmattan has sufficient manpower and knowhow to progress on anything | 00:38 |
| ThreeM | i hate elop more and more | 00:39 |
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| ThreeM | in germany for ex, nokia loose more and more marketshare on smartphone sector. Windows Phone has no stabilized effect for nokia | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It's quite depressing, indeed. | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | (modern hw) | 00:42 |
| ThreeM | i cannot understand the shareholders doesnt kick elop out of business | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Flop is M$, and M$ always been a safe bet. Or to put it in a slightly modified well known saying: nobody ever got fired for buying IBM and/or SicroMoft | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no matter if their products or their shares | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or their staff | 00:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically Flop joining Nokia transmutated the shareholders' stock from Nokia shares to M$ shares | 00:48 |
| concept | nokia crawled themselves into a hole, elop is delusional, blaming retail staff for poor sales of the windows phones while ignoring harmattan which is doing better despite having been released to a comparatively small and somewhat irrelevant set of markets | 00:49 |
| concept | I don't really foresee nokia coming out of this well, if at all | 00:51 |
| ThreeM | nokia will become a producer for low cost phones | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, in 2 years they rename to "Mircosoft, Nokia phones division" | 00:52 |
| ThreeM | cause there is not much competition in this marked | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | Also that monsterpixel hw ending up in a symbian phoen is rather telling, they've got no space to come up with anything new in windows phone | 00:52 |
| wmarone | DocScrutinizer: that's after they have Elop sell them exactly what they want and cast the rest off. | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 00:53 |
| ShadowJK | ThreeM, the competition is fierce, samsung, lg, huawei, zte and now also smaller chinese makers. In the "cheap smartphone" segment there's additionally htc | 00:53 |
| ThreeM | shure, but the have not such marketshare as nokia | 00:53 |
| ThreeM | worldwide i mean | 00:54 |
| ShadowJK | Samsung is pretty close | 00:54 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no more margin in featurephones | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure not for Finns | 00:54 |
| ThreeM | so, nokia will die? | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia can't produce blank PCB for what some chinese crap explosion is charging for whole phones | 00:56 |
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| szopin | heya | 01:04 |
| szopin | could anyone tell me how to download libs in SB? | 01:04 |
| szopin | apt-get seems missing | 01:05 |
| szopin | dpkg not found | 01:05 |
| szopin | bit clueless | 01:05 |
| beford | apt-get ? | 01:05 |
| szopin | yeah, followed dev.nokia.com/community/wiki/maemo5sdkinstallation | 01:06 |
| szopin | but now testing it compiling something using ncurses linking dies | 01:06 |
| szopin | I assume I need libncurses-dev | 01:07 |
| szopin | no idea how to install that as neither apt-get or dpkg is available | 01:07 |
| szopin | how does one install packages/libs in scratchbox? | 01:07 |
| szopin | oh wait, I guess I haven't finished installing | 01:08 |
| szopin | rushed it I guess | 01:08 |
| szopin | brb | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | means "be back tomorrow" ;-D | 01:11 |
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| szopin | nope | 01:12 |
| szopin | I don't see /etc/apt/sources.list | 01:12 |
| szopin | and this step seems crucial | 01:12 |
| szopin | to add deb htt.....token nokia-binaries :/ | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I followed some guide in internet, and it took only like 6 h to install but was mostly painless | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe 12h, can't reacall exactly | 01:14 |
| szopin | for me it was painless, but currently got no such file or directory | 01:14 |
| szopin | stopped painlessly too soon it seems | 01:15 |
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| freemangordon | szopin, able to do /scratchbox/login? | 01:15 |
| szopin | yup | 01:15 |
| szopin | got the shell | 01:15 |
| szopin | but no apt-get | 01:15 |
| freemangordon | fakeroot there? | 01:15 |
| szopin | and only as deep as etc | 01:15 |
| szopin | in sb? | 01:16 |
| beford | apt-get should work.. | 01:16 |
| szopin | brb | 01:16 |
| freemangordon | beford :nod: | 01:16 |
| szopin | ?? before login: not allowed to run as root | 01:16 |
| beford | what | 01:17 |
| freemangordon | of course you are not allowed to /scratchbox/login as root | 01:17 |
| szopin | when in sb: preload library 'libfakeroot-sysv.so' not found aborting | 01:17 |
| szopin | backward apostrophes btw | 01:17 |
| szopin | 11.10 ubuntu | 01:17 |
| freemangordon | try 11.04 | 01:18 |
| szopin | ouch | 01:18 |
| freemangordon | 11.10 seems to screw scratchbox | 01:18 |
| szopin | reflash of desktop needed? | 01:18 |
| szopin | that is not nearly as painless as n900 | 01:18 |
| freemangordon | vmware? | 01:18 |
| szopin | :C | 01:18 |
| szopin | nah, want to get this right | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, I installed on OpenSuse and no real problems, after finding proper HowTo | 01:19 |
| szopin | want to get 2.3.65 compiled and get new libc/glib running | 01:19 |
| szopin | might as well do it properly | 01:19 |
| szopin | dammit | 01:19 |
| freemangordon | well, upgrading from 11.04 to 11.10 made my harmattan sb to not work anymore | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck buntkuh | 01:19 |
| szopin | agreed | 01:19 |
| szopin | ok, brb, most liekely tomorrow then | 01:20 |
| freemangordon | thanks god it was installed out of curiocity :D | 01:20 |
| szopin | btw, does anyone know how to get pali's instructions on getting 2.3.65 to run | 01:20 |
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| szopin | one sec | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ask? | 01:21 |
| szopin | add /proc/bootreason ??? | 01:21 |
| szopin | to the 2.3.65 | 01:21 |
| szopin | and gpio keys | 01:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer is scared aboiut the .65 | 01:21 | |
| szopin | 2.6.35* | 01:22 |
| szopin | sorry | 01:22 |
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| szopin | how does one add /proc/bootreason and gpio keys? | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | devconf? | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | patch? | 01:23 |
| szopin | with this newer libglib and libc6 should run (at least run on 12.04) | 01:23 |
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| szopin | no idea, which is why I'm asking | 01:23 |
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| szopin | kernel stuff is black magic for me still | 01:23 |
| Pali | szopin, if you want, I can sent you my patch against meego kernel | 01:23 |
| Pali | but is incomplete and not working properly in madde | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | he's using SB | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | at least it's the plan it seems | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 01:24 |
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| szopin | sorry scrutinizer, all my compiling was on device, doubt kernel can be done that way, accepted compiling on desktop as necessary evil | 01:25 |
| szopin | wish someone cheered you up when you started dabbling the same way | 01:25 |
| szopin | you know, there are thousands of you here, another one tries to break his teeth, fk him | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | on buntkuh: canonical/shuttlewroth panned to get a look and feel like windoze, now buntkug got that plus same level of fuckup and mass deloyment as the redmont stuff | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | planned even | 01:26 |
| szopin | nope, sdk/sb howto mentions ubuntu | 01:26 |
| szopin | yet it doesn't work | 01:27 |
| szopin | I started with monkey lin on 5 floppies 13 years ago | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: that's because buntkuh also standard OS in Tampere | 01:28 |
| szopin | got some fun with redhat/debian/suse/dsl in my times | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | some year ago each mediaocre idiot IT manager insisted in whole team using canonical | 01:29 |
| szopin | that was for me few years ago | 01:29 |
| szopin | some years ago we all moved to gentoo | 01:30 |
| szopin | as it was best at those times | 01:30 |
| szopin | now be an oldfag and have some decency to shut up if you're not heklping | 01:31 |
| concept | I use whatever I like | 01:31 |
| concept | I can always play the disabled card, and managers have to swallow it | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | szopin: sorry I dunno how to help, but I actually shoud do better things than chat with you, you seem to have a hostile tendency | 01:31 |
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| concept | LOL | 01:32 |
| szopin | DocScrutinizer: spitting buntukh all around showing your problems with the world without suggesting a solution is not helping anyone | 01:33 |
| szopin | just ignore me pls and do your anti-ubuntu rant on /msg | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, you're lucky I'm way too tired to take appropriate action to answer this | 01:33 |
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| szopin | some (I hope) will appreciate your oldfag humour | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, not really | 01:34 |
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| szopin | got street cred for installing arch? lol | 01:34 |
| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q szopin!*@* | 01:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ping somebody else when you're less arrogant about my poor attempts to be funny | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | n8 | 01:35 |
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| szopinus | damn | 01:51 |
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| szopinus | too bad pali left :( | 01:52 |
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| szopinus | finally | 03:24 |
| szopinus | 300gb usb didn't boot | 03:24 |
| szopinus | dvds same | 03:24 |
| szopinus | 2gb stick finally worked | 03:24 |
| szopinus | should I upgrade 11.10 to 11.04 (not kidding, one of the options) | 03:25 |
| szopinus | or should I erase? | 03:25 |
| szopinus | going for erase, just in case | 03:26 |
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| Hurrian | @DocScrutinizer - another manufacturing defect? | 03:31 |
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| szopinus | hey Hurrian | 03:38 |
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| Hurrian | yeah? | 04:29 |
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| szop|zzz | hell yeah! tome compiled OK, SB is a go | 04:44 |
| szop|zzz | runs in SB window | 04:44 |
| szop|zzz | where is af-sb-init.sh btw? | 04:44 |
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| szop|zzz | ok, 3 hrs left to sleep, anyway, made it the same day, gnight folks | 04:45 |
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| szop|zzz | just for clarity sake: 11.04 seems ok (around 15-20 errors during sh installs, nothing critical it seems) | 04:47 |
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| Menger | ad-hoc wifi consumes 180mA here | 05:42 |
| Menger | it consumes 5mA for powersave managed mode | 05:43 |
| Menger | hald the system power | 05:44 |
| Menger | half | 05:44 |
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| Menger | is there possibility to add powersave to adhoc? alternatively to add managed AP mode to driver? | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | No, and dunno | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Adhoc means that you jsut put the interface in promisc mode, and listen for packets, and hope that tcp does the retransmits. | 05:46 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no scheduling which is required for powersave. | 05:46 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle you could roll your own protocol. | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's not there by default | 05:47 |
| Menger | yes for w n900s | 05:48 |
| Menger | 2 | 05:51 |
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| Menger | very high power usage.. i do not see how listening consumes so much | 05:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Because it does. | 05:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Keeping the radio awake is expensive. | 05:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Use a normal AP, and turn powersave mode off | 05:53 |
| Menger | so i want a fully managed mode on n900 | 05:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Err - what? | 05:58 |
| Menger | for mobile hotspot | 05:59 |
| Menger | managed is some time division multiplexing? | 06:01 |
| Menger | is special/different wifi raio needed? | 06:02 |
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| Menger | radio | 06:02 |
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| Menger | thank you for the information SpeedEvil | 06:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | You ... | 06:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 06:26 |
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| magic_doc | talk is offline - again. | 10:47 |
| magic_doc | this sucks without end the third time this month | 10:47 |
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| ErwinJunge | Anyone here know what's up with tmo? | 11:50 |
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| psycho_oreos | <magic_doc> talk is offline - again. | 11:50 |
| ErwinJunge | Ok, so this is not scheduled maintainance or something like that? | 11:51 |
| psycho_oreos | probably not | 11:52 |
| psycho_oreos | fyi that was an annoyed user's complaint | 11:52 |
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| ErwinJunge | Thanks for the info. I guess since noone here knows it's probably not scheduled outage ;) | 11:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | I sort of have a belief that if there were any scheduled outage, it would be noted in the /topic. | 11:55 |
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| Lykkepillen | Hi guys, I'm looking to overclock my old N900 and was wandering if you could help me with an up-to-date guide? :) | 11:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | have you done the necessary hardware modifications to ensure that your N900 won't fry up in the process? | 11:58 |
| Lykkepillen | I have done nothing - Was just looking at these old guides on talk.maemo.com (which seems to be down?) and they all seemed like it was a software hack only that wouldn't take more than 2 minutes | 11:59 |
| Lykkepillen | -Then i saw the name on the package they said to download "Enchanced Linux kernal for power users (obsolete)" with "Please REMOVE this package" in the desc. | 12:00 |
| psycho_oreos | its not exactly a software hack, it's more like replacing the kernel so that such options can be unlocked at user's expense | 12:00 |
| Lykkepillen | By user's expense you mean? | 12:01 |
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| psycho_oreos | dixi | 12:07 |
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| Lykkepillen | psycho_oreos - Do you have any guides or advice or anything? :) | 12:10 |
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| Macer | heh | 12:10 |
| Macer | is nokia closing down maemo.org? | 12:10 |
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| petteri | yes, in 2013 if I remember correctly | 12:12 |
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| Lykkepillen | So.. Anyone else knows anything about overclocking of N900? | 12:16 |
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| BCMM | Lykkepillen: it will kill the device. | 12:21 |
| BCMM | Lykkepillen: the clock speed is not set for thermal or battery reasons. | 12:21 |
| Lykkepillen | It will? Thats why the kernel is being removed? | 12:22 |
| BCMM | well, it may not kill it quickly every time | 12:22 |
| BCMM | also, what kernel is being removed? | 12:23 |
| guly | BCMM: please explain "kill" meaning :) | 12:23 |
| BCMM | brick, destroy, eventually-cause-to-become-non-functional | 12:24 |
| psycho_oreos | if it doesn't kill, it will un-necessarily shortens the life of the device sporadically and exponentially depending on how high the user/owner sets | 12:25 |
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| Lykkepillen | BCMM From my post earlier: -Then i saw the name on the package they said to download "Enchanced Linux kernal for power users (obsolete)" with "Please REMOVE this package" in the desc. | 12:29 |
| Lykkepillen | -That's what the guide i found told me to download | 12:29 |
| BCMM | huh, kernel-power isn't gone is it? | 12:29 |
| BCMM | i thought it was part of cssu now | 12:29 |
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| BCMM | it has all sorts of non-OC uses like iptables | 12:30 |
| Lykkepillen | No idea what cssu is - My phone didn't work for about a year and when i tried turning it on a few days ago it suddently powered up without problems - I'm outdated on all points | 12:30 |
| psycho_oreos | ~cssu | 12:30 |
| infobot | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 12:30 |
| psycho_oreos | kernel-provides more than just that, it also incorporates class 10 microsdhc fixes, other improvements within memory management, etc | 12:32 |
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| Lykkepillen | So i should or shouln't overclock my device? It sounded almost like it was allmost risk-free when i read the guide, but that was from 2009 | 12:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | you should question yourself is there ever a need to, and should also read up on the technical information in regards to the very same ARM　Cortex A8 chipset inside that N900 | 12:35 |
| psycho_oreos | ~oc | 12:36 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, oc is an Optical Carrier, An OC1 has 672 channels or 44.736 Mbit/s | 12:36 |
| psycho_oreos | ~overclocking | 12:36 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 12:36 |
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| Lykkepillen | Theres no need to overclock it. I'm simply doing this because It's possible. When the phone stopped working i bought a Samsung Galaxy S2 that I'm using ATM so the N900 is really just a toy | 12:38 |
| psycho_oreos | what do you mean stopped working? | 12:39 |
| Lykkepillen | It just didn't boot | 12:39 |
| Lykkepillen | Could have been some sort of water damage since it started working again | 12:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | poor old device, soon it'll probably gain rust before it dies.. and to overclock it will quickly send it on the way to hell | 12:41 |
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| Lykkepillen | Aw i hope not.. Was thinking of using the FM transmitter on the beach when summer hits | 12:43 |
| psycho_oreos | you hope not.. its not like that's going to help anything.. when it was subjected to water, what were your first reactions apart from going out and buy samsung galaxy s2? | 12:44 |
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| concept | FM transmitters with minijacks are sold quite cheap everywhere | 12:45 |
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| Lykkepillen | Haha the water damage part was just a guess, It was just laying on my desk. But i spent hours trying to figure out why it stopped working.. Didn't come up with a solution tho'.. When i think about it, same thing happened with my first iPod Touch - Might just be something in the air | 12:46 |
| Lykkepillen | -But why would i buy a FM transmitter when i have a perfectly fine N900 with Youtube on it? | 12:47 |
| concept | I've noticed that the SIM holder is quite prone to humidity damage (mine seems to be losing its metallic shine); no clue about the insides of the N900 | 12:50 |
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| concept | this is strange since I have a (much older) N95 too which has been exposed to the exact same conditions and seems brand new both inside and out | 12:53 |
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| concept | the N900, in the other hand, is showing signs of wear in the corners, despite only having been extensively used for less than a year (and being only a little over 2 years old) | 12:54 |
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| chem|st | I have no idea what you guys do to your phones... my beloved n900 survived a wheatbeer attack and is looking like week 2 after unboxing ever since | 13:10 |
| chem|st | wheatbeer coke mix to be precise | 13:10 |
| jaska | wheatbeer and coke.. sounds pretty foamy | 13:11 |
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| Lykkepillen | Will talk.maemo.org be up again sometime soon? | 13:38 |
| concept | chem|st: do you carry it in a pocket? | 13:43 |
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| Sazpaimon__ | Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at talk.maemo.org. | 13:52 |
| Sazpaimon__ | today is a good day | 13:52 |
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| szop|zzz | yup tmo down for me too | 14:14 |
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| chem|st | concept: you mean display foil, phonepocket stuff: no none, just in my pants | 14:20 |
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| guly | BCMM: i see. i used to downclock it sometimes, to save battery..but it doesn't worth it | 15:00 |
| BCMM | guly: surely it has some sort of idle power saving anyway? | 15:00 |
| guly | hope so :) | 15:01 |
| BCMM | i have no idea if it's still true on ARM, but on modern x86, it basically works out as better to have the maximum non-idle clock speed available | 15:01 |
| BCMM | since it gets its work finished and gets back to the low-power idle state faster | 15:02 |
| BCMM | bear in mind that this was about frequency scaling rather than ordinary over/underclocking | 15:02 |
| BCMM | the conclusion was that it's not a good idea to automatically scale the freq down on an x86 laptop when on low battery as it will make it run out faster | 15:02 |
| BCMM | adding undervolting to the equation could well shift the balance - does the n900 let you adjust voltages? | 15:03 |
| BCMM | that's probably a silly question; i would hope a mobile power system is simpler than that | 15:03 |
| Lykkepillen | I think it does | 15:04 |
| guly | i think so but i think it can be worst before it helps to save battery time | 15:04 |
| fortytwo | You can do that with a custom kernel, I don't think you can in the standard one | 15:04 |
| Lykkepillen | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zIIkrpMdDpAJ:talk.maemo.org/showpost.php%3Fp%3D595582+&cd=1&hl=da&ct=clnk&gl=dk | 15:08 |
| Lykkepillen | -When talk.maemo dosen't work | 15:09 |
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| guly | ow your N900 is overclocked to 850Mhz using slightly less voltage than stock!! | 15:14 |
| guly | interesting | 15:14 |
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| jonwil | bah, TMO is down :( | 15:35 |
| guly | it's been down for at least 5 hours | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | guly: rush-to-idle is a well known optimal strategy usually | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | OC though is a pretty bad idea | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even and esp with undervolting | 15:55 |
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| guly | sure | 16:34 |
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| Sazpaimon | overclocking isnt gonna kill your device this week | 16:37 |
| Sazpaimon | and chances are by the time overclocking would have killed it, you would be ready to move on anyway | 16:38 |
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| Lykkepillen | Could you give me a timespan? I wouldn't push it to the limits, just make it a bit faster | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Nobody can. | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I it likely to kill it in the time the device still works - possibly not. | 16:48 |
| Lykkepillen | So.. 6 months? 1 year? | 16:49 |
| luke-jr | Sazpaimon: within a yeaR? | 16:50 |
| Sazpaimon | luke-jr, if you run it at 100% cpu for a year straight, then maybe | 16:52 |
| luke-jr | Sazpaimon: you wouldn't get to a year at 100% CPU, at default clocks | 16:53 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah probably not | 16:53 |
| Sazpaimon | still most of the time you're overclocked, the cpu wont even be running at that clock | 16:53 |
| Sazpaimon | there are people that have been overclocking for a year already, I havent seen any complaints thus far | 16:54 |
| freemangordon | I am OC since aplil/may 2010, till kp49 up to 900, when kp49 came out up to 805 | 17:00 |
| Lykkepillen | Well good to know.. I will check back tomorrow to ask a few more questions before i decide lol.. :) | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, when your car's engine has a red zone and limiter @ 6000 RPM, is it sane to removeavtune the limiter so you can run the engine @ e.g. 8000 RPM? how long can you do? | 17:07 |
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| Sazpaimon | ah once again, the old car/computer analogy | 17:09 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, I drive my BMW OC from 136 HP to about 170 HP for 5 or so years :p. No problem at all. | 17:10 |
| Sazpaimon | and that analogy doesnt really hold up | 17:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I disagree. | 17:12 |
| Sazpaimon | if you remove the rev limiter, you would also need to replace the exhaust for it to do anything | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | In both cases, you can't tell what will fail. | 17:12 |
| guly | it simply doesn't worth it | 17:13 |
| guly | the risk is to blow up a device | 17:13 |
| guly | the pro is to speed up just a bit | 17:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | A device that is not used because it is slow has effectively blown up. | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | <Sazpaimon> [10:52:54] luke-jr, if you run it at 100% cpu for a year straight, then maybe | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | if you run 100% CPU at 600MHz it'll like fail | 17:37 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: that's what I said | 17:38 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: 600 MHz isn't slow. the RAM is where N900 is lacking | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: often | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, just noticed | 17:38 |
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| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer51> [11:07:47] well, when your car's engine has a red zone and limiter @ 6000 RPM, is it sane to removeavtune the limiter so you can run the engine @ e.g. 8000 RPM? how long can you do? | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | I just stick a paper with a drawn extended gauge | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | then broke the needle that holds it at maximum | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | all decent scientific studies show that user can't even notice 25% faster CPU, esp when other componenys (RAM etc) are still same speed, and when slow storage (HDD, flash) kicks in, clockspeed of CPU is negligible | 18:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | so except for that rage case where you get to 24fps but you'd need gt 25fps, OC is TOTALLY useless | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rare cases* | 18:15 |
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| Dynamit | Is it easy to make N900 to dual boot? If i have one OS in the phone and the other in memory-card of course. | 18:47 |
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| beford | yes | 18:51 |
| Sicelo | bootmenu, u-boot, flasher -- those are your options Dynamit, depending on how the second OS is configured | 18:51 |
| beford | u-boot works better for nemo/mer and multiboot for nitdroid. | 18:53 |
| Dynamit | okey i don't have my N900 yet but i hope i have it on Thursday for hope for the Swedish post office to get it from a place near Göteborg to a place quiet near Örnskuldsvik | 18:53 |
| Dynamit | ok thx for the info Sicelo and beford | 18:54 |
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| Dynamit | Are Maemo under development or have Nokia abandoned it? I have read that Nokia planning/have abandoned MeeGo. | 19:00 |
| Sicelo | nitdroid/multiboot aren't advised. that's why i left them out in my list | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~maemo-multiboot | 19:18 |
| infobot | methinks maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED | 19:18 |
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| Dynamit | Is't any support for Ubuntu One sync in Maemo? | 19:43 |
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| shanttu | Dynamit, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/512052 | 19:49 |
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| Sicelo | reading that link makes me laugh :D | 19:59 |
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| Sicelo | Marktrix (markgerlach) wrote on 2010-10-24: I am not a Developer and no Part of Canonical. But I think, the focus is iOS and Android, Maemo go out of date and Canonical needs cost-effectiveness. So first the Bigplayers and than maybe (hopefully) Meego | 20:00 |
| Dynamit | I maybe will use Dual boot then it appearing to be MeeGo and Android or Maemo and Android | 20:02 |
| Dynamit | The only reason i want Ubuntu One in the phone when i get it is because then i can writing in the calender in the mobile and get it sync on many computer's i use | 20:03 |
| Dynamit | That would make my school studding more effective then it's today | 20:04 |
| Sicelo | that's not what i was laughing about though Dynamit. i just find it dumb that the post is clearly about N900, and someone already made attempts to get One on N900. then some apple fanboy pops up and say drop it | 20:04 |
| Sicelo | anyway, looks like canonical did 'follow' that piece of 'dis-advice' - http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/2011/05/09/some-changes-to-contacts-2/ | 20:06 |
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| Dynamit | stupid Apple G** person then | 20:07 |
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| Sicelo | btw, lol, i don't even know what this One is, although it seems to be an Ubuntu-only feature.. /me has Debian | 20:09 |
| Dynamit | you can use Ubuntu One on Windows too | 20:10 |
| Dynamit | Android i Know | 20:10 |
| Sicelo | ah, news to me. windows & ubuntu one :P | 20:11 |
| Dynamit | https://one.ubuntu.com/downloads/windows/ | 20:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cooool shit | 20:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer is temped to continue where he left yesterday | 20:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. rant about canonical and buntkuh, and the idiotic product philosophy behind it, and the poor maintainability | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ubuntu == "linux" for bored windows users to feel "smart" | 20:22 |
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| Sicelo | /kick DocScrutinizer !! | 20:25 |
| Sicelo | :D | 20:25 |
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| Sicelo | well, N900 made me start to use Linux... and somehow 'dictated' that i should choose Debian. i didn't like Ubuntu for the very same reason DocScrutinizer mentions. guess one future day i'll look into other linuxes (Arch, Gentoo, and such) :/ | 20:39 |
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| Sicelo | dunno if i'll really do Gentoo .. compiling everything is nice for learning -- but i'm not so sure doing it all the time is the best idea for me and types of computers i use. therefore, i think Arch looks like my next one. | 20:45 |
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| Pali | ping freemangordon | 21:01 |
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| ketas | so i have n900 now | 21:19 |
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| ketas | the usb port didn't wobble, don't know what to do with it next | 21:19 |
| merlin1991 | ketas: install cssu ;) | 21:20 |
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| ketas | merlin1991: i would like to have cshu | 21:26 |
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| merlin1991 | ketas: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 21:26 |
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| ketas | merlin1991: "Update available for your MicroUSB port" | 21:28 |
| ketas | :P | 21:28 |
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| Sicelo | lol | 21:33 |
| ketas | round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 119.768/2357.527/10736.500/2708.779 ms | 21:40 |
| ketas | i love 3g | 21:40 |
| ketas | :) | 21:40 |
| ketas | no, it was 100.224/5976.568/27335.730/6531.975 ms actually | 21:41 |
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| r00t-eeepc | what i find is that packets get queued somewhere, and then eventually arrive with a delay up to multiple minutes | 21:42 |
| r00t-eeepc | which is ridiculous, as any internet protocol will have timed out by then | 21:42 |
| r00t-eeepc | for example, a dns lookup... a few attempts are made to sed the query udp packet, but no response arrives... a minute later, the response packet to each request arrives... but the source port is closed already, and so for each one, an icmp destination unreachable is sent back to the dns server | 21:43 |
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| ketas | yea, sucks | 21:44 |
| luke-jr | I've seen pings over 2 minutes -.- | 21:45 |
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| ketas | now, imagine you want to use ssh | 21:47 |
| ketas | :P | 21:47 |
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| ketas | packet arrives 2 minutes later | 21:48 |
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| shanttu | changed router at home and when I try to use apt-get on wlan i get "could not contact dns servers". browser works without problems. | 22:15 |
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| ketas | hmm | 22:19 |
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| ketas | how so | 22:19 |
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| ketas | shanttu: can you resolve a host? | 22:20 |
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| shanttu | ketas, nope | 22:26 |
| Sicelo | tried google dns/ opendns ? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, use CSD, it is almost realtime. Wait... N900 modem doesn't support CSD, not fashionable anymore :-S | 22:29 |
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| shanttu | I used gui to set opendns and thought it was set. i changed it on /etc/resolv.conf and voila | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fremantle is not using /etc/resolv.conf, or rather: it must not get altered, as on fremantle you got dnsmasq | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | so changing /etc/resolv.conf to anything other than 127.0.0.1 will break things | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | device can't associate to new networks | 22:44 |
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| shanttu | DocScrutinizer, the truth is now I can use apt-get. i'm extremely noob regarding networking | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | the truth is this will change eventually | 22:48 |
| shanttu | will change it back then | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | another truth is you haven't got any DNS cache now anymore, as far as I can tell | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | so *each* DNS query now goes via network | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | in short: you fsckdup your DHCP | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | next hotspot you will run into trouble, as they usually rely on their own DNS server getting used at very least for authentication via browser frontpage | 22:52 |
| guly | mmh dnsmasq is writing a resolv.conf foreach different connection | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 22:52 |
| guly | and nameserver used is the one got via dhcp | 22:52 |
| guly | so | 22:52 |
| guly | ->127.0.0.1->dnsmasq->192.168.1.1 | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly what I tried to say | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and also dnsmasq caches | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | to speed up repeated queries *a lot* | 22:53 |
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| guly | sure | 22:53 |
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| shanttu | reading about opendns now and will try that. thanks for your help | 22:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ummm | 23:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe you simply should delete your home wlan form list of networks, then create it new - obviously after you first switched /etc/resolv.conf back to default 127.0.0.1 | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | checking the config of your new AP also might help a lot | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course restarting the phone also may help to recover from hidden massive changes in WLAN network environment | 23:09 |
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| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: ping | 23:11 |
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| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: i've disassembled my n900, usb port "jumped out" a bit from board on one side | 23:12 |
| dos1 | when pressing it a bit from top to make it really touch the board, it works | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | semi-off | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | you opened it just in time | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | dos1: so, what's the question? :-D | 23:17 |
| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: just reporting :) | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | solder it down, touch the connetion pins shortly with soldering iron, good you are | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't apply tin to the contact pins when soldering them | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | good flux maybe, but no tin beyond what's inevitably on your soldering tip already | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | so basicaly nothing | 23:18 |
| dos1 | ok | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | save all the lots of solder for the mach reinforcement blobs at left and right of component ;-) | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | mech* | 23:20 |
| merlin1991 | and as always | 23:20 |
| merlin1991 | NO EPOXY | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | YUP! :-D | 23:20 |
| dos1 | thanks for tips, i'll report in few days how it went (i don't have soldering iron here right now) | 23:21 |
| merlin1991 | hm I wonder how my usb port in my n900s is doing | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | dos1: I guess it's redundant, and already known, but anyway: | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 23:22 |
| infobot | well, usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 23:22 |
| merlin1991 | hm I gues it's impossible to tell if they are broken from the outside | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, mostly | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might tell when it moves 0.2mm when you press it "down" with some toothpick | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually you can see this very well, as there's a 0.5mm gap from USB to plastic of case | 23:24 |
| merlin1991 | down means towards the battery side of the device? | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 23:25 |
| ketas | i tried to push it with stylus when checking for my n900 | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, basically it mustn't move in either sirection | 23:25 |
| ketas | wasn't wobbly | 23:25 |
| merlin1991 | they all seem to be rock solid | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | stylus is a good idea | 23:26 |
| ketas | yet, do i need to harden it with solder? | 23:26 |
| ketas | still | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on your sleep, are you suffering insomnia when you think about N900 USB_? | 23:27 |
| ketas | i don't really want it to break off in future | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | are you a very gentle guy or rather a blacksnith? | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | smith* | 23:27 |
| ketas | i don't like to twist cables around really | 23:28 |
| r00t-eeepc | wouldn't the safest method be to remove the connector and solder a pigtail cable instead? ;) | 23:28 |
| merlin1991 | hm I wonder how blacksmith soldering would look like :P | 23:28 |
| ketas | hm | 23:28 |
| ketas | what you meant? | 23:28 |
| ketas | r00t-eeepc: well... | 23:28 |
| ketas | r00t-eeepc: i thought that, but that's stupid | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's really hard to tell what's more risk - disassembling and trying to solder it while no appropriate expertise, or hoping for your luck not to trip over the cable | 23:29 |
| merlin1991 | 2nd case at least gives you the chance that you don't try todo somehting that might break it | 23:29 |
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| r00t-eeepc | ketas: it _looks_ stpid, but it's the best way to prevent destruction of the port ;) | 23:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course there are characters that can't build card houses without folding the cards. Those should try to find somebody to do the soldering for them | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got no problems with 2 devices with all together >3 years of frequent USB plug-rounds | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | both still fine | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no preemptive fixing | 23:33 |
| ketas | hmm | 23:33 |
| r00t-eeepc | a method i find reasonable is to remove the locking hooks from the micro-usb plug, so it will slip out rather than rip out the port | 23:34 |
| ketas | so i leave it without fix for now? | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then again, I'm an EE who's supposed to know how to handle that kinda delicate stuff | 23:34 |
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| r00t-eeepc | ketas: yours is broken, no? so fixing is obviously needed | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | r00t-eeepc: that's basically BS, you never 'rip out' the port, it always gets loose by levering/bending the plug | 23:35 |
| ketas | r00t-eeepc: not yet :P | 23:35 |
| r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: i've seen phones with ripped out port on ebay ;) | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | so be carefull on pulling the plug, don't bend it, and you're most likely fine | 23:35 |
| ketas | someone claimed that it just came out | 23:36 |
| r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: and it will also reduce stress on the port by making the plug fit less tight | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | r00t-eeepc: so what? sure you can rip out a loose receptacle component | 23:36 |
| ketas | hmm | 23:37 |
| ketas | do they make usb plugs without hooks | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it's your cable. easy to replace once you ruined it. I never found it's needed as all my cables go in and out just fine, after ~200 rounds | 23:37 |
| r00t-eeepc | ketas: rip out with appropriate pliers | 23:37 |
| ketas | i'll see | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | now that's complete BS | 23:38 |
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| r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: rip the hooks out of the plug i mean, to make a hook-less plug | 23:38 |
| ketas | go in and out just fine... | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, and I answered on that | 23:39 |
| r00t-eeepc | how else would you remove them (if you wanted to) | 23:39 |
| ketas | with teeth | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, how else would you make a pig fly | 23:39 |
| ketas | with wings of course | 23:40 |
| r00t-eeepc | ketas: it's unlikely your teeth have that kind of grip ;) | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | simple answer, the whole idea is BS | 23:40 |
| r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: possible | 23:40 |
| ketas | also | 23:40 |
| ketas | some usb cables are fucking thick | 23:40 |
| ketas | which might be better for signal but... well | 23:40 |
| r00t-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: i'm not necessarily saying it's a great idea or helps much - but it won't hurt (the usb port) either | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | will cause plug to fall out when no latches at all | 23:41 |
| r00t-eeepc | yes, but having the plug fall out is sure easier on the port than pulling the phone around by it | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ketas: when your plug is a bit tight at beginning, paint the outside (!) with a pencil | 23:42 |
| ketas | hmm | 23:42 |
| ketas | interesting idea | 23:42 |
| r00t-eeepc | graphite lubrication? | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 23:42 |
| ketas | yes | 23:43 |
| ketas | what out inside :P | 23:43 |
| ketas | about | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | And still even without the hooks if you try on the cable you might be subjecting hte port to bending forces still, before the velocity vector of cable and attitude of n900 reorients to allow for plug to come out | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks ShadowJK, was too lazy to explain it | 23:43 |
| r00t-eeepc | ShadowJK: now that's some serious connector physics ;) | 23:43 |
| ketas | i've seen massive microusb plugs with massive cables | 23:44 |
| ShadowJK | try=trip | 23:44 |
| ketas | and hard to bend cables | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, that's why you want hooks on those | 23:44 |
| ketas | those cables nokia provide are somewhat easier to work with | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | USB *always* breaks on you pulling on the plug not in line with insertion direction | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka bending it | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | on pulling out | 23:46 |
| ketas | hm? | 23:46 |
| ketas | breaks what, how? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | your USB never will come off on a proper pull out in straight line, not even with hardest latches on plug | 23:46 |
| r00t-eeepc | now, what we REALLY need is induction coupled phone charging... | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you need it, you should get it | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's been done before | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | helsinki airport has café with induction chargers under the tables | 23:47 |
| ketas | well induction charing on phone is kind of hard to design, no? | 23:47 |
| ketas | charging | 23:47 |
| r00t-eeepc | it's available somewhere... but probably too expensive to be worth it | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~80..100 bucks for material IIRC | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | with a spare for palm pre | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | some cute hacker already did it | 23:49 |
| r00t-eeepc | i just bought an n900 for 100 bucks... | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | on N900 | 23:49 |
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| szop|zzz | wb | 23:54 |
| szop|zzz | oops, much late, nvm that | 23:54 |
| ketas | bucks and boosts | 23:56 |
| szop|zzz | pali: when you mean 2.6.35 needs proc/bootreason and gpio keys to work... could you point in the right direction for further reading? | 23:56 |
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| Pali | Hurrian, szopin, if you want I can send my patch for bootreason and gpio to work | 23:58 |
| Pali | patch is for meego n900 kernel from git | 23:58 |
| Pali | and it create compatible interface for maemo 5 fremantle | 23:58 |
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