IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-03-12

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ShadowJKNow my N900 dropped off cellular entirely. It has really degraded quickly, in a weekend00:14
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Hurrian@ShadowJK, wdym, the cell applet disappears or cell svcs just fail?00:22
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ShadowJKboth actually00:24
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Hurrianthe cell applet is just buggy for me00:26
Hurrianprolly need to reflash soon00:26
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ShadowJKdmesg is filled with cmt crashing00:27
Hurrianah, well i get none of that00:28
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ShadowJKSecond N900 of mine that has died this way00:34
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Hurrianyou can still use it as a thin client though00:43
Hurrianand testing stuff00:43
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ShadowJKas tablet00:55
ShadowJKbut I have 10 months left on warranty00:55
ShadowJKhm, it seems somewhat tricky to convince N900 and my linux PC to do transfer over USB in a sensible way00:55
ShadowJKI was using wifi, but decided to switch to usb for speed...00:55
* ShadowJK notices a top speed of 15 megabytes/sec when switching scheduler on pc from cfq to noop, but then it dropped to 7M after switch complete00:56
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timeless_xchathello world03:53
timeless_xchatdoes anyone know of a maemo5 app that can search the address book by phone num\er?03:53
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timeless_xchatgreat... i found my problem03:55
timeless_xchati have 5+ contacts for a name03:56
timeless_xchatand one of those additional contacts grew the phone number from the primary contact03:56
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Maceri really need to make a mencoder script to encode stuff for my transformer09:50
Macereven if this transformer totally sucks09:50
Macerit is buggy a hell09:50
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LinuxCodehas anyone here bought a replacement battery for their old N81014:06
LinuxCodeI want to use it to just check on zoneminder and check email14:06
LinuxCodeI had 4 new batteries so far, and they all make the device make funny noises14:06
LinuxCodelike clicking14:06
LinuxCodeas if something is shorting14:07
LinuxCodeyet the old battery works fine, it just dies14:07
LinuxCodeI am starting to get the funny feeling that all the batteries on amazon are fake14:07
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conceptthe flashing tools have got to be the most unsable collection of crap I've ever seen14:16
conceptnokia updater works on windows, but doesn't flash emmc (or if it does, it restores a backup right after, which is not intended)14:16
conceptflasher-3.5 does not work on 64bit versions of windows 714:17
conceptMacFlasher (3.12) gives an error because apparently it's a harmattan version14:17
conceptflasher-3.5 for OSX gives a timeout error14:17
Hurrian@concept - i have flashed my N900 on all 3 platforms successfully14:17
Hurrianthey do suck though, i'll give you that14:18
Hurrianon linux, they work like shit on an x86-64 distro14:18
concept710flasher is a ppc app14:18
conceptyeah, I was getting to that14:18
Hurrianon windows, rd flagging apparently does jack14:18
conceptflasher-3.5 for linux is a 32bit bin linked to 32bit libraries, and when run on a 32bit system gives me a "No such file or directory" error while attempting to claim the USB interface (from within a VM)14:19
conceptI'm really running out of options now, the next thing I'm gonna try is to boot a gentoo livecd on my mac with a flash drive connected with all the necessary files and hope that it works that way14:21
Hurrianusb forwarding is crap on all platforms, sure as f*** wouldn't trust that to flash my stuff14:21
Hurrianand btw, i prefer using macflasher to flash my N90014:21
psycho_oreosIt only flashes emmc when you flash it with emmc image, and I don't understand what you meant by restore functionality, there are none. It just wipes it clean back to how it was from manufacturer14:21
Hurrianosx - no need to worry about 32 or 64 bit atm, can set rd flags, no need to worry about drivers because libusb handles it nicely14:22
conceptpsycho_oreos: well, all my files were still there after flashing with nokia updater on windows; also, how do you specify an emmc images with that?14:22
conceptHurrian: macflasher gives me a timeout error14:22
Hurriananyways, the concept of a desktop side flasher that does nothing but send images to nolo is a joke14:23
Hurrianyou seriously DO NOT need that14:23
psycho_oreosconcept, I don't use nokia updater with windows, in fact I don't run windows on any of my machines. Therefore I never really ran into that issue, I find it a little funny those with windows and using it to communicate with a linux device14:23
Hurriannokia could've taken the thing that routers use to take images over tftp and embed that into a mini-phonet in nolo14:24
conceptError claiming USB interface: Operation timed out14:24
conceptI get a lot of this from MacFlasher14:24
Hurrianit needs sudo14:24
conceptwhich I used14:25
Hurrianoh and that14:25
Hurriannokia, y u need root access for a damn flasher14:25
psycho_oreosimo that has nothing to do with nokia, not that I'm defending them, but under linux, one cannot access to raw sockets for some reason or even raw devices14:26
conceptthat is what I get from macflasher14:28
conceptit is currently sitting on my desk with the backlight turned off, the nokia logo, and the USB icon in the top-right corner14:29
conceptI did not have to install anything for macflasher, other than the package itself14:29
Hurrian@concept, you need to use the N900 flasher14:30
Sicelohmm, that says harmattan14:30
conceptI've tried that too14:30
Hurrianoutput pl0x14:30
psycho_oreoson the wiki they referred it as 770flasher14:30
LinuxCode[12:25] <Hurrian> nokia, y u need root access for a damn flasher14:31
LinuxCodethat is a linux issue14:31
conceptpsycho_oreos: 770flasher is a ppc app14:31
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Hurrian@LinuxCode, libusb devs say root access is not required to run a libusb program, it's just needed to install a udev rule14:32
conceptI think I'm just going to try the next safest option14:32
LinuxCodeI know that14:33
LinuxCodeits permissions14:33
conceptwhich is to bootcamp a 32bit windows 714:33
LinuxCodeit is not the flashers fault14:33
LinuxCodealthough they probably hard coded that in14:33
psycho_oreosconcept, I assumed you tried either: maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.dmg or maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_ppc.dmg? I don't know which mac (let alone year model) you have14:34
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conceptpsycho_oreos: the former, yes, it doesn't even install a binary14:34
conceptalthough it does install a manpage14:34
conceptso I kinda have a flasher-3.5 manpage without the accompanying flasher-3.5 binary installed14:35
psycho_oreosconcept, are you able to query the package for its contents? I know under debian (or other linux distributions having capability to read deb files) that you can query the package for its contents, both installed and the package itself14:36
conceptI did eventually find the flasher-3.5 binary somewhere ysterday in a temporary directory, ran it, and it required libusb installed, so I compiled that, ran it again, and it gave me the exact same timeout error that I pasted from flasher 3.12 earlier14:36
conceptpsycho_oreos: yes14:36
psycho_oreosconcept, ideally you shouldn't have used flasher 3.12. That's noted to only work with harmattan devices (notabley N950/n9)14:37
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conceptoh actually no, it is an installer14:38
psycho_oreosI wonder if you can pastebin the output of that, surely the binary has to be installed somewhere.. I can't see how or why it would install without the actual binary14:38
conceptpsycho_oreos: I believe it is not compatible with lion14:38
conceptbecause the temporary files that I found were inside directories named 10.5 and 10.614:39
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conceptI still have those files14:40
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psycho_oreosconcept, not that I know but I'm sure in theory you maybe able to get away using 10.6. Though it is partially nokia's fault for being anal and giving people binary blobs which makes life rather awkward especially when the idea of `one suit fits all' doesn't really apply here14:40
conceptI've tried 10.6 before14:42
psycho_oreosno luck? what about 10.5?14:42
conceptoh go14:43
conceptit requires an old version of libusb14:43
conceptsonames don't match14:43
conceptI installed libusb from the sources yesterday but didn't notice this at the time14:44
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Hurrianwhat the?14:51
Hurriani flash with 10.714:51
conceptusing what?14:51
Hurrianthe N900 flasher14:51
Hurrianuse pacifist to extract the files, put them in manually14:52
Hurrianlibusb just werks14:52
conceptnot here14:52
conceptunless you installed an older version for whatever reason14:52
Hurrianweird. it could be because i'm running a hackintosh, though14:52
Hurrianprolly somewhere in the fact that i didnt enable USB suspend in dsdt14:53
conceptcore:10.6 jps$ sudo ./flasher-3.514:53
conceptdyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/lib/libusb-0.1.4.dylib14:53
concept  Referenced from: /private/tmp/pc-connectivity-bin/10.6/./flasher-3.514:53
concept  Reason: image not found14:53
conceptI have libsb-11 installed14:53
conceptI have libsb-1 installed14:53
Hurrianuse the one from the pkg14:54
conceptdidn't know there were libs in the package14:58
conceptore:10.6 jps$ DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ../../pc-connectivity-bin/10.6/flasher-3.5 | head -114:58
conceptflasher v2.5.2 (Nov 25 2009)14:58
RST38hconcept: Please, stop flooding14:58
concept2 lines is flooding?14:58
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conceptHurrian: that seems to have worked15:04
concepteither that or I've just bricked the phone15:04
concepteither way doesn't matter, I'm giving it away anyway15:04
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psycho_oreosgiving it away?15:08
psycho_oreosto who?15:08
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concepta friend15:11
psycho_oreosahh ok, I thought you were giving it away to some random person. If that were the case, I'd say pass it to me (I'll pay for shipping costs if needed be :)) got a mate/friend here at my local 2600 meetup that would want a N90015:13
conceptI was considering getting an n9, but thanks to this experience, that is no longer an option for me15:14
conceptI mean, wiping a phone shouldn't be such a daunting task15:15
conceptan iphone can be wiped with a single click15:15
psycho_oreosn9 imo is worse than N90015:15
conceptwell, I like the touchscreen on it15:16
conceptplus it uses microsims, meaning I can exchange sims with my iphone15:16
conceptand ipad15:16
concepthonestly, being used to an iphone, I really do hate the resistive touchscreen on the n90015:17
psycho_oreosI hate capacitative otoh, you actually have to have your finger to hit the screen properly.. when the buttons are small, you had to use the width of your finger just to be able to hit that corresponding key correctly or else you'll need to hit backspace15:18
Macergame change cracks me up15:18
conceptwell you don't have to press as much (or even touch, in the case of the idevices' screens)15:20
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conceptthe only issue I see with capacitive is that it doesn't work with gloves, but the nose is an excellent pointing device, too :P15:22
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psycho_oreosyeah it basically requires a skin or somewhat a conductive pointer to be able to register a `keystroke' on the capacitative touchscreen15:23
psycho_oreosand I'm not too particularly fond of iphones either, the way they force new owners to use itunes to activate the product and all the usual conspiracies surrounding `phoneback'15:25
conceptthey don't, anymore15:28
conceptitunes is almost (possibly completely) optional now15:29
conceptsince ios 515:29
conceptthe only thing you need it for with ios 5 is to sync with content on your computer15:30
* psycho_oreos also frowns the idea that it lacks a qwerty keyboard. Though ironically n9 is the same, it gives the developer of whatever `app' they choose to create whether to even implement simple functionalities like copy or paste. If they don't incorporate or they won't incorporate it, the end users will be the ones getting the short end of stick15:30
psycho_oreosin fact for n9 when it comes to searching for music, I simply can't type in the letters to search up the music without the keyboard. I must scroll all the way up to force the search functionality to show up. If I hit the wrong area I end up playing my entire collection in shuffled order15:33
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psycho_oreosoh and the way Apple treats linux users.. the last I recall when linux users wanted itunes equivalent for linux.. Apple snubbed the linux community by saying that they should run the windows version, which forces linux users to run it through wine15:35
psycho_oreoswrong attitude.. they should never assimilate things.. the case would probably even apply if one for instance ran *BSD15:36
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concepttheir intent is to have people use their entire ecosystem, where things work amazingly well15:40
psycho_oreosrather.. to me they're trying to assimilate people into mac users like themselves. Sure there are some good things under Apple but otherwise, attitudes like that are purely just wrong.15:41
conceptI have an imac, an mbp, an ipad 2, and an iphone 4s working in perfect harmony, plus I'm a developer, meaning I actually get to run stuff on the hardware itself with a debugger attached to it, no need for emulators or simulators, so even as a developer it feels great15:42
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conceptI understand that point of view because I shared it in the past15:43
conceptbut then I realized that by sticking to such principles was preventing me from enjoying an experience that no other product ecosystem is capable of offering15:44
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psycho_oreosheh no system is perfect.. even if there's a perfect system.. somewhere down the line or living in utopia may drive one insane15:48
conceptit is not about perfection, it is about integration and synergy15:49
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conceptyou really do feel that the whole is much bigger than the parts comprising it15:50
conceptespecially now with icloud15:50
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conceptlet me give you an example of something pretty simple15:51
conceptthey've been around since forever15:51
conceptever since PDAs were invented, they had reminders15:51
conceptbut personally I've never found them too useful, they required me to input in the device itself, and that alone made them extremely inconvenient, plus they could only be set to specific times15:52
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conceptthen ios 5 came with its own implementation and 3 integrations that revolutionized reminders and made them essential to my life all of a sudden15:53
concept1 - siri (I can literally tell my phone to remind me about something)15:53
concept2 - location (I can set up reminders for when I arrive or leave locations, thanks to their integration with the location services on ios)15:54
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psycho_oreosunfortunately they aren't really revolutionary, its just the way they were configured so that it would ideally work the way its intended15:54
concept3 - icloud (I can set up reminders on any of my idevices, or on, and they will be instantly pushed to all other devices,)15:54
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psycho_oreosthe underlying software fundamentals were already there for awhile, Apple just rearranged things to make it all appear to work out in favour of the user15:55
conceptI'm not saying any of this is revolutionary, it is just the product of an integration, an integration that other ecosystems lack15:55
conceptand thanks to that integration, reminders are now a fundamental part of my life15:56
psycho_oreosunarguably that is true however Apple is quite anal about others featuring similar functionalities, which to me is wrong attitude15:57
conceptthe apple ecosystem is full of little details like this15:57
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psycho_oreoswhat is that supposed to mean? I mean stuff like where Apple sued Samsung for mimicking their iPad range and then the recent case against Proview16:00
conceptpsycho_oreos: I can understand that too16:01
conceptif you focus into the big picture rather than the details (i.e.: it doesn't matter whom apple is suing and what for, but why)16:01
conceptit is a fact that before the iphone, no other commercially successful phone looked anything like it16:02
conceptapple accepted the risk and launched a completely different product that captured the attention of people16:02
conceptthen came other brands and attempted to mimic that product, after knowing that the formula was actually successful but without ever risking anything16:03
conceptit is thus comprehensible that apple would be annoyed by such behavior, hence jobs' "go nuclear on android" quote16:03
psycho_oreosconcept, all I can see is greed. iPod isn't revolutionary, the idea of hard disk based music players was first (iinm) originated by creative, notably their zen jukebox. Though at the time it was seen as rather bulky and ugly, so it never really sold well.. The idea of a tablet was never founded by Apple, it apparently came from a sci-fi movie and half the electronics manufacturers are making tablets just because ipad came around. Instead of Apple s16:04
psycho_oreosuing each and every other companies, they sued 1) their own CPU/RAM manufacturer, Samsung and 2) Proview simply because they utilise the words iPad internally in China16:04
conceptin 2010 the ipad was launched in similar conditions to the iphone, to a market where nothing successful (if we can even talk of success in the tablet market before the ipad)16:05
conceptand other brands, once again, tried to mimic the ipad16:05
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psycho_oreosyeah but that's not the point, in the case of Apple vs Samsung over galaxy tab vs iPad was the fact that Apple claimed they whole idea of tablet PC was theirs16:06
conceptpsycho_oreos: it has nothing to do with greed actually, it has more to do with perception; jobs' apple was not about money (in his own words, they had plenty, which they indeed do)16:06
Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: I think it had a little to do with how profoundly similar looking the entire Tab product line was to that of the iPad16:06
psycho_oreosconcept, no it is greed. Why would they be suing otherwise? jealousy? too much ego and power?16:06
conceptapple never aggressively sought market share (as shown by the fact that they've never tried to offer low-end products)16:06
Gadgetoid_mbpSamsung copied Apple accessory for accessory16:07
psycho_oreosGadgetoid, again still besides my point, search up on the case about how Apple claimed it idealised the whole tablet idea. That's the wrong sort of quotation to make16:08
psycho_oreosconcept, never aggressively sought market share.. as if they didn't16:09
Gadgetoid_mbpI don't think anyone was under any illusion that tablets simply didn't exist before the iPad, but it was fairly well established that they sucked balls16:09
conceptthey didn't, and they don't16:09
Gadgetoid_mbpCan't find any quotes supporting your belief that Apple claim to have invented the tablet, though16:10
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, well they may have sucked balls, but that still doesn't make the point that Apple was trying to claim the idea of tablet based pc as completely their own. This was what they claim against samsung in the case of galaxy tab16:11
conceptthey are in the business of selling you high-end products that work very well together but are not necessarily dysfunctional on other platforms16:11
jacekowskiGadgetoid_mbp: they claim that they invented specific design of it16:11
jacekowskiGadgetoid_mbp: which is what whole apple vs samsung thing was about16:11
psycho_oreosconcept, wikipedia notes that pretty well, though Apple doesn't have as much hatred for being anti-competitive (like microsoft) though it did create a whole lot of hatred for the way it treats other players in the community16:12
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conceptpsycho_oreos: for example: one huge difference between the way apple does things and microsoft does things is that, when a standard or de facto standard is available, and provided that there is no historical reason to act differently, they follow it16:13
Gadgetoid_mbpTablet, circa 1994;!16:13
jacekowskiwell, thing is, everyone wants to keep their market16:13
jacekowskiconcept: microsoft follows a lot of standards16:13
jacekowskiconcept: and they created a lot of them16:13
conceptjacekowski: just not C99 ;)16:13
conceptor POSIX16:14
jacekowskiwindows IS POSIX compliant16:14
conceptplus they have their own implementation of kerberos16:14
conceptand their own implementation of xmpp auth16:14
jacekowskicompatible with other implementations16:14
Gadgetoid_mbpI can't find an early tablet without a stylus16:14
concept(and that's now, because they didn't even have xmpp before)16:14
jacekowskiconcept: that's because they want it integrated with their platform16:15
jacekowskiconcept: google doesn't have xmpp16:15
conceptand their own psuh client mail protocol16:15
jacekowskiconcept: at all16:15
jacekowskiconcept: they added xmpp frontend to their platform16:15
conceptjacekowski: I don't know why you are playing a google card in an apple vs. microsoft debate16:15
conceptplus google does implement xmpp16:15
conceptgoogle talk is xmpp16:16
jacekowskino it's not16:16
jacekowskifew years back when they introduced it, it didn't have anything xmpp with it16:16
conceptso what is it?16:16
Robot101jacekowski: erm16:16
jacekowskilater on, they added xmpp c2s frontend16:16
Robot101it's always been xmpp16:16
Robot101you're thinking of facebook16:16
conceptjacekowski: I don't recall it ever being anything else16:17
jacekowskixmpp like protocol16:17
Robot101no, it's always been actual xmpp16:17
jacekowskiit was their implementation of xmpp like protocol16:17
Robot101no, it was XMPP16:17
jacekowskion their own platform16:17
e0xis true but now is full jingle16:17
Robot101it's been XMPP since 2005 when we started the Telepathy project working on Google VOIP calls for the Nokia 77016:17
Robot101their *voip* changed from gingle (their own thing) to jingle16:18
Robot101but that doesn't make it not XMPP16:18
e0xis true , google in the begining have they own implementation of xmpp16:18
e0xbut now they are complaint16:18
jacekowskiyes, but it took them almost 2 years16:19
Robot101no, it was always xmpp16:19
Robot101they had their own voip extension16:19
jacekowskiit was almost like xmpp16:19
e0xyes iwas alway xmpp but not a standard implementation16:19
e0xthat is why just now the client can exploit all16:19
jacekowskibut there was a lot of incompatibilities between their xmpp and rest of the world16:19
conceptanyway that's besides the point16:19
jacekowskigoing back to microsoft push email16:20
Robot101it was a "standard implementation", there was no freaking voip standard for xmpp when they started16:20
conceptthe point is that microsoft only follows standards when they have something to gain from doing it16:20
Robot101any XMPP client could connect, it just couldn't use voip, but none of them could16:20
Robot101and any XMPP server could interop16:20
conceptin every other case, where they can actually monopolize, they choose not to16:20
conceptexchange protocol16:20
conceptmessenger protocol16:20
jacekowskiRobot101: they didn't have s2s working for a very long time16:20
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jacekowskithere was nothing before activesync16:20
jacekowskiand activesync is not just push e-mails, but contacts and calendar as well16:21
conceptthere was IMAP?16:21
Robot101a very long time? about 6-9 months. january 2006 they enabled s2s. their entire implementation was built around XMPP from the start.16:21
jacekowskiconcept: imap can only do emails16:21
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jacekowskiconcept: activesync can do emails + contacts + calendar + tasks16:22
conceptjacekowski: and you can add extra fields to rfc2822 messages to make calendars out of them16:22
conceptcontacts are covered by LDAP16:22
jacekowskiyeah, do it on mobile phone16:23
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, actually, before 1994 the very first tablet was idealised in 1969 in a sci-fi movie16:23
jacekowskihave constant ldap connection16:23
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, "Here in the U.S., Samsung has defended itself with a brief in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, arguing that Apple was hardly the first to think of a flat tablet. In "2001" -- actually shot in 1965 and released in 1968 -- two astronauts on the way to Jupiter watch themselves give a TV interview on what looks very much like an iPad."16:23
conceptjacekowski: that is not required, you can cache them16:23
Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: yeah and the first mobile phone was idealised in Star Trek, doesn't mean they invented it16:23
Gadgetoid_mbpI could draw you a picture of a hyperdrive right now, but I'd get laughed out of a patent office :D16:24
jacekowskiconcept: ldap can't do push16:24
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, and you were arguing that Samsung created accessories similar to Apple in terms of iPad? that wasn't Apple's sole reason for making a lawsuit against Samsung, in fact there's a very good article here:
jacekowskiconcept: and rfc2822 is from 200116:24
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, no it goes to show that I have founded statements16:24
jacekowskiconcept: activesync was around 6 years earlier16:24
conceptjacekowski: there was rfc822 before that16:25
Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: It doesn't matter. Apple are good and gracious, following in the footsteps of the great lord and master Steve Jobs. They bless each and every device with water from his holy magic font. And they're always right.16:25
conceptbut I give you the ldap push argument16:25
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jacekowskibasicaly activesync was first protocol to put all that together16:25
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, "And they're always right." oh yeah they're always right.. it just makes more of a yes-man than a critic who can take arguments on both sides16:26
Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: You forgot the holy font, don't forget the holy font. Samsung don't have a holy font, and therefore all their device are sinful and against Steve16:26
jacekowski+ remote wipe + security policies16:27
jacekowskistuff that they like in corporations a lot16:27
conceptthis debate is delaying me16:27
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, sinful? they never were really sinful, they're just clones that Apple couldn't resist itching.. Apple relied on Samsung for their CPU and RAM and now they're suing their own manufacturer, quite ironic how one would think that Apple is not trying to dominate the market and not being greedy16:28
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Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: the article you linked to is flawed, in that it lists all the alternatives that Apple gave Samsung and suggest that they are a list of everything Samsung should have done, rather than discrete suggestions for design variation16:28
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jacekowskipsycho_oreos: it's more complicated than that16:29
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jacekowskipsycho_oreos: because they are cooperating on one market doesn't mean they can't compete on the other16:29
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: rolls royce and GE are perfect example there16:29
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, I have yet to see one article or link from you claiming that Apple was the first one that claim to have the idea of a tablet form PC16:29
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: biggest jet engine manufacturers, and competitors16:30
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: however, GE engines use RR engine controllers, and RR engines use GE controllers16:30
Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: I was waiting for *you* to post an article with Apple claiming that they were the first to have invented a tablet... have you suddenly switched to the other side of the argument!?16:30
psycho_oreosjacekowski, they can compete with each other.. I don't know about rolls royce vs GE case but Apple just likes to take out lawsuits16:30
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psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, no, because you were initially the one who pointed out that you could not find my statements about Apple not being the first one to create a tablet based PC16:31
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: thing is, apple is quite a big customer for samsugn16:31
Gadgetoid_mbppsycho_oreos: No, I pointed out that I couldn't find any statements about Apple claiming they were the inventor of the tablet PC16:32
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and even if apple sues samsung, they can't just say that they won't sell them more CPUs16:32
Gadgetoid_mbpWhich is why I said: "Can't find any quotes supporting your belief that Apple claim to have invented the tablet, though"16:32
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Gadgetoid_mbpThe Tablet PC was invented by Steve Jobs when he travelled back in time to 1066 to watch the Battle of Hastings, anyway16:33
psycho_oreosGadgetoid_mbp, and then I said that it was in the lawsuit no? what was that abc link for then?16:33
Gadgetoid_mbpHe sat there, watching the bloodlust and thought: "If only I had an absurdly huge camera to film this"16:33
Gadgetoid_mbpAnd so it is told in the holy book of Steve16:33
psycho_oreosjacekowski, somewhat I wished that was moreso the case, even if Apple is their big customer.. but then again16:33
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: it's big business that most of us don't exactly understand16:34
jacekowskipsycho_oreos: and lot of it happens without anybody else knowing16:34
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jacekowskiwe don't know if apple doesn't have like 20 years deal with samsung16:34
psycho_oreosjacekowski, well yeah lots of the details are really behind the doors deals that obviously keeps companies afloat. Though I'm sure Apple would now probably look for some other CPU/RAM manufacturer to replace whatever they used from Samsung just because of this case.. like historically what Apple typically likes to do, change their manufacturers completely on their own will16:36
jacekowskiwell, maybe not, maybe samsung is stuck with them for next 10 years16:37
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psycho_oreosthough Apple may only use Samsung's components on maybe products other than iPad/iPhone *shrugs*, a way to try and somehow minimalise Samsung's earnings through certain loopholes in agreements. Who knows16:39
SpeedEvilGadgetoid: The apple Newton was pretty revolutionary.16:42
Gadgetoid_mbpSpeedEvil: Apple just ripped off the pen and paper, shameless copycats!16:45
Gadgetoid_mbpIf the solution to tablet design were as obvious as all these bloggers seem to think it is, why the fuck didn't any other manufacturer release a tablet like this *before* Apple?16:47
edheldildoes anyone here care about Apple vs. Samsung??? Why? :)16:47
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Gadgetoid_mbpedheldil: Not really, I'll talk about any old balls16:48
edheldilI thought that this channel is for those who do not envy slick iPhone experience ;-)16:48
Gadgetoid_mbpedheldil: Yes, yes, the Nokia N8x0 is the only tablet!16:48
edheldilbtw, Sammsung really does not have reason to dump Apple if it loses in suit - it would be a needless lost of profit16:48
Gadgetoid_mbpI feel ashamed, I haven't broken out my N810 for ages :(16:48
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Gadgetoid_mbpGiven by how big a percentage of Apple's business their "post-PC" devices are, I should imagine that Apple constitute a significant portion of Samsung's business16:49
Gadgetoid_mbpLeading me to conclude that Samsung would sooner cut off their own balls than drop Apple, but are probably secretly plotting to overthrow them with a radical new triangular tablet design16:50
edheldilbtw, did they lose already? I was not watching the suit16:51
Gadgetoid_mbpMe either, no idea, couldn't give a monkeys unless it meant someone was going to come to my house and personally relieve my of my Apple devices16:52
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SpeedEvilThe form factor of a touchscreen display is _quite_ obvious.17:01
SpeedEvilSee '2010' - or old star treks.17:01
SpeedEvilFor very ipad looking like things.17:01
conceptit is thus strange that we had to wait until 2010 to have such devices17:02
SpeedEvilNo, it's not.17:02
SpeedEvilI can imagine many things that can't be economically constructed.17:02
conceptthere were plenty of "tablet PCs" before the ipad17:03
conceptI had one from HP in 200517:03
SpeedEvilMaking thin, light devices is hard.17:03
conceptgranted the touchscreen was utter crap, but the capacitive technology is much older than that17:03
SpeedEvilI don't get why people think capacitive is important.17:03
SpeedEvilThere are many ways to do a touchscreen.17:04
SpeedEvilIt makes about as much sens as going on about what the case is made out of.17:04
SpeedEvilProbably less.17:04
conceptperhaps capacitive is the cheapest and strongest option providing all the required multi-touch functionality17:04
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conceptoptical is crap, resistive with such capabilities may not be rugged enough for a mobile device, so that leaves scanline resistive as the ultimate solution for unlimite area touch sensibility17:07
SpeedEvilI hate capacitive, personally.17:07
concepts/scanline resistive/scanline capacitive/17:07
SpeedEvilI find a screen which has some degree of pressure sensitivity far more usable17:08
conceptI love it17:08
conceptyou can emulate pressure sensitivity on a capacitive screen17:08
conceptby measuring the touch area17:08
SpeedEvilI've not seen a device that does it usefully.17:08
conceptboth my iphone and ipad do17:08
conceptand music apps such as garageband make use of it17:09
jacekowskiit doesn't exactly work17:09
conceptit does17:09
jacekowskiif you learn how to touch you screen17:09
SpeedEvilI mean - so that you can place your finger on the device, without triggering a touch without a force of over a gram or so.17:09
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conceptI don't think implementing such a resistive touchscreen would be practical on a mobile device17:12
SpeedEvilI have one. Works well.17:12
conceptI hope you're not referring to the N90017:12
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chem|stconcept: it was implemented... years ago... and you are far off reliable "both my iphone and ipad do", personally I prefer hardware which is usable for work- and home-usage in a single device...17:29
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conceptboth iphone and ipad are17:32
conceptunless you work on very specific environments, such as network engineering17:32
wmarone_trolling or...?17:34
conceptconsidering how the american air force itself has ordered 18k ipads, how would I be trolling?17:34
wmarone_because you're in here masturbating over the iPhone/iPad, and it's offtopic?17:35
conceptapparently, ios devices are good enough for military applications, so yes, unless you work in very specific niche fields, they are likely to be perfectly usable at work for you17:35
wmarone_no, see I'm a software developer17:35
conceptwmarone_: there was a debate earlier, it's not my fault if you weren't following17:35
wmarone_and software developers are explicitly restricted on iOS17:35
wmarone_concept: that and I may not have been awake17:36
conceptdon't jump into a conversation claiming that the party you don't agree is trolling17:36
conceptthat makes you the troll17:36
wmarone_no, see17:36
wmarone_you're here touting the superiority of a platform that is unrelated to the topic of this channel17:36
Proteous+1 for troll17:36
conceptwmarone_: what's the problem with being explicitly restricted?17:36
Proteousare we taking votes?17:36
wmarone_concept: precisely the reason I won't buy iOS or Apple devices anymore17:37
conceptwmarone_: I'm not touting the superiority of anything17:37
wmarone_and precisely why I bought my N90017:37
wmarone_then why are you going on and on about your iPad and iPhone17:37
conceptwmarone_: scroll back and find out17:37
conceptthis conversation started because I mentioned how unusable nokia software was when it came to performing the simple task of wiping an N900, compared to a single click to do the same on an iphone -- this is practical stuff, your rant about restrictuions is bullshit17:40
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chem|stconcept: syncing contacts+calendars between several devices fails, you cannot even transfer a darn picture from an iphone to a powerbook... had to retake with my n900 as it was able to send pictures to the powerbook...17:45
conceptchem|st: that is quite strange, since the iphone exports a DCIM filesystem to the outside world with pictures that is supposed to be reatable by any software designed to interact with digital cameras17:47
concept(just like the N900 does)17:47
chem|stconcept: try bluetooth...17:47
conceptah, that's a totally different story altogether, the iphone lacks a lot of bluetooth profiles17:48
chem|stsending a file?17:48
chem|stessentials you mean17:48
conceptI believe it only has 2 profiles17:48
conceptone is for bt audio and the other I can't remember17:48
conceptthe ipad has one for bt keyboards too17:49
chem|stwhy does it have an option to send files via BT?17:49
conceptthe iphone?17:49
conceptit doesn't, last time I checked...17:49
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hanningcorrect me if im wrong, but isn't the n900 a developer device never ment to be used by consumers or in a professional/productive environment? why should a comparison with an iphone be legit?17:50
conceptI believe the n900 is considered a consumer device17:50
luke-jrhanning: it's a consumer device, but it isn't a phone.17:50
conceptyou may be confusing it with the n95017:50
chem|stapple products are for people who either do photography/art something historicans graphicdesigners and for all people who think it is cool they put an "i" up front and made up that it invented rocketsience... for once I thought it is somelike scientology style17:51
conceptI don't fall in any of those groups and have the whole ecosystem17:52
conceptok, I don't have an ipod, the iphone replaces it completely17:52
chem|stcannot be bothered17:53
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RST38hMeanwhile: The project, Homeless Hotspots, seeks to address people's need for a high-speed data connection at the festival in Austin, Texas, by issuing the homeless with T-shirts that say 'I am a 4G hotspot.' Passers-by may then pay what they wish either in cash or by PayPal to get online 4G networks via the Wi-Fi device that a homeless person is carrying and the proceeds go to the Front Steps Homeless shelter in Austin.17:53
* RST38h comes here after 2-3 hours and concept is *still* ranting about his ipod/iphone/ipad17:54
chem|stRST38h: nice17:54
conceptRST38h: souds like an interesting project17:54
RST38hI think you do fall into one of "these" groups, concept17:54
conceptRST38h: the argument has gone through several iterations now :P17:55
chem|stRST38h: do you think the n9 is a suitable replacement for a n900?17:55
conceptI'm just replying to people who replied to me after only reading a half of it17:55
RST38hchem|st:Yes, I can live with it17:56
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chem|stconcept: fyi, talking to apple fanboys is like talking to religious fanatics... anytime!17:56
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javispedroah, another member of the cult!17:57
javispedroand moo RST38h17:57
RST38hreMoo javispedro17:57
chem|stRST38h: hmm it is expensive BUT the only non-android device somewhat "good"17:57
* RST38h amplifying,mixing,and amplifying audio samples17:57
conceptchem|st: as to your question, I am a 95.2% disabled person with two open angle glaucomas and cornea distrophies, one eye blind, 10% of sight left in the other eye, and a lot of photophobia caused by the medication I take to keep the remaining sight I have17:57
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RST38hchem|st: what is expensive? n9? cost me RUR14120 last time I bought it17:58
conceptchem|st: apple has given me the best accessibility options I could possibly imagine, in fact they've gone below my imagination in terms of accessibility without getting in the way17:58
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RST38hIMEIs on the device, the upper part of the box, and the lower part of the box did not match though =)17:58
conceptthey have little competition in the desktop market and no competition at all in the mobile market when it comes to usability17:59
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chem|stRST38h: ouch17:59
RST38hDoc, I think it is time for the hammer17:59
* javispedro concurs17:59
hanningusability is something my grandma cares about ;)17:59
conceptso, as you can see, I do not fall into your description17:59
chem|sthanning: don't take the piss out of disabled ppl...17:59
concepthanning: your grandma and anyone whose time isn't worthless17:59
RST38hBTW, patient not accepting his mental illness existence is one of the main symptoms18:00
conceptI accept my mental illness too18:00
conceptI'm a psychopath18:00
chem|stRST38h: nice one...18:00
RST38hBut let Doctor Obvious give you something to talk about18:00
RST38hconcept: So, what oher Apple gear have you got? Other than iPhone Imean?18:01
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conceptwhy does it matter?18:01
chem|stiX but ipod18:01
RST38hNo matter at all, just thought it would be both pleasant for you to talk about and enlightening for everyone18:01
conceptit is not18:02
conceptit is pleasant to argue18:02
RST38hAfter all,few people here got any Apple stuff, we are kinda ignorant18:02
conceptnot to brag, or whatever you thought I was doing18:02
conceptI have already shared my thoughts18:02
RST38hSo, we are not gonna find out? iMac? iPad? Apple TV maybe?18:03
conceptdoes it matter?18:03
RST38hOr maybe some retro Apple stuff, you know, good one, the Cube, etc?18:03
chem|stRST38h: have you tried any bada devices yet?18:03
conceptno, I do not keep junk18:04
RST38hchem|st: yes. they are basically korean symbian clones =)18:04
RST38hchem|st: feature phones18:04
conceptwhich is why I'm giving my N900 away18:04
RST38hnice, found people to take it from you? Should I suggest some?18:04
conceptyes, I found people18:05
javispedrohey, I could use one, my camera button is wearing out18:05
RST38h[Elfing. It is infinitely more fun than trolling.]18:05
chem|st.oO(no hope, no glory)18:05
RST38hconcept: niiiice18:05
RST38hchem|st: Samsung Note though =)18:06
chem|stfo all who do not know german... 11 is elf18:06
chem|stRST38h: yeah was thinking about that but still I want to keep resistive18:06
RST38hchem|st: If you can stand certain Android specifics.18:06
RST38hchem|st: You are out of luck then, no more resistive18:07
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chem|stRST38h: do you mean the "do not share with google" button?18:07
javispedrosadly the note still has some quirks18:07
RST38hchem|st: Nte has got inductive stylus though, I hope it kinda replaces resistive18:07
javispedroI've been really considering one, I found one at demo on a store18:07
javispedroit is kinda unprecise at corners (like the n900, but much more noticeable)18:07
RST38hchem|st: actually, google already has all your data. It is not google you have to worry about.18:08
conceptRST38h: how do those stylii work?18:08
javispedrothe n900 was "insensitive" on the corners, but the note seems like it is just imprecise18:08
RST38hconcept: a coil in the stylus18:08
chem|stwell, it does not have my addressbook, at least not those not on f*c*book18:08
conceptI've seen one of HP's laptops with a capacitive screen and a very strange pointy stylus that works on it and can even detect when it's touching and not touching the screen18:08
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RST38hjavispedro: Have I told you of a funny test we did at the AT&T store with a friend?18:09
javispedroisn't that the definition of a stylus?18:09
javispedroRST38h, I think not18:09
RST38hjavispedro: ANyway, AT&T had a bunch of Android phones there, and a few WP7 phones (2)18:09
conceptjavispedro: I suppose so, but traditionally, capacitive stylii have thick round edges18:10
javispedroconcept, that's because capacitive sucks18:10
chem|stjavispedro: he means the pointer is moving even without touch18:10
RST38hjavispedro: the task was to take the phone into your right hand,call up the address book, and type in a name18:10
RST38hjavispedro: as if searching for it18:10
chem|stinductive stuff...18:10
javispedrochem|st, I have one such capacitive+wacom lenovo tablet right here.18:10
javispedrochem|st, it's the one I'm using fwiw.18:10
RST38hjavispedro: Samsung phones absolutely positively sucked at it, just could not get the keypresses right18:10
conceptchem|st: so it's an inductive / capacitive screen working at the same time?18:11
RST38hjavispedro: Including GalaxyII, which was a bit better due to its larger screen but still sucked18:11
RST38hjavispedro: HTC was better. HTC's WP7 phone was better still.18:11
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javispedroRST38h, hah18:15
javispedroRST38h, I do think that the WP7 vkb looks an improvement over samsung's stock one18:15
javispedro(which was not android's at least on the note)18:15
javispedrosamsung is too much interested in looks and flashy stuff, I got a flashy animation telling me some gesture to do with the pen while pressing a button on the device18:16
javispedroI was not able to do the gesture properly18:16
javispedrobut I did embarrass myself18:16
javispedrosomeone didn't check on the ergonomics18:17
javispedro(though I admit that with some practice I could get the handle out of it, and I do miss the stylus enough to forgive certain quirks)18:17
RST38hjavispedro: we tried both samsung and vanilla android keyboards,, and swype18:19
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RST38hjavispedro: swype got discarded first, it could not understand non-english names18:19
RST38hjavispedro: samsung's vkbd was marginally better than android's own18:19
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RST38hmy guess is though, that the 5"+ Note won't have this vkbd problem - huge keys18:20
javispedrowell, not that huge :)18:23
javispedroI do have problems on the touchpad for ex.18:23
* javispedro 's heart is with resistive :)18:23
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* RST38h wants full Wacom tablet functionality18:24
RST38hwith accurate pressure sensing18:24
RST38hTo hell with resistive then18:24
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javispedrothe problem is that half of the time I want to use nails, or whatever other blunt object I happen to have with me18:27
javispedroalso, both wacom and capacitive are just too sensitive18:27
RST38hsame here18:27
RST38hbut I am getting used to n950/n9 screen, too used in fact. feels too natural to swipe etc18:28
javispedronot arguing. going back to n900 does require retraining.18:28
RST38heven although it tends to malfunction with dry fingers18:28
* RST38h often tries swiping N900 now18:28
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javispedrobut this very morning I had the usual screen fails to respond because it was grounded somewhere18:29
javispedroyou have to pick up the n950 or otherwise you can't even double-tap wake it18:29
MohammadAGI installed a swipe tweak on the iPhone so I don't make mistakes anymore :p18:31
RST38hhehe, put it on plastic =)18:31
conceptit is likely to sense your fingers through plastic as well as thinner fabric18:33
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javispedrodepends on the weather18:33
javispedrothat's capacitive for you!18:33
conceptmy iphone feels my leg through my pocket's fabric, for example18:34
RST38hthe only positive thing of capacitive is the ability to use glass18:34
RST38hyes, we are well aware of Apple users' intimate relations to their fetish objects18:34
javispedrotechnically, there's resistive over glass, I remember Palm advertised it for the original Tungsten18:34
jacekowskiyou probably can do resistive glass touchscreen18:34
RST38hhow do they do it???18:34
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jacekowskiRST38h: glass can flex18:35
RST38ha bit, yes. then it breaks.18:35
jacekowskiquite a lot18:35
conceptcan't piezo materials be used to make hard pressure-sensing screens?18:35
RST38hnot easily18:35
javispedrothe problem is that sensitivity decreases18:35
javispedro(wen using glass I mean)18:35
RST38hpiezo stuff requires crystal lattices (right word?) in just the right orientation18:36
RST38hdoing this over a large transparent surface is probably an issue18:37
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RST38hjavispedro: btw, can still buy cheap chinese android tablets with resistive screens, although they all kinda suck18:38
javispedroI know that :(18:38
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jacekowskitbh, i like resistive touchscreen reliability18:39
MohammadAGmake your own phone18:39
javispedroexperience with a cheap chinse gps18:39
RST38htheydo not have that nice Nokia resistive screen18:39
jacekowskihmm, repeatability18:39
javispedrojacekowski, indeed.18:39
jacekowskiyou touch it with same force every time and it responds always18:39
RST38hmore like average chinese crap - less transparent, less sensitive at the edges, gets worse with time18:39
jacekowskicapacitive sometimes don't respond18:39
jacekowskifor various reasons18:39
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MohammadAGget a pandaboard, slap on your own Ubuntu variant with some Qt UI, take out the N900's touchscreen and you're done18:39
chem|stjavispedro: is the lenovo any good?18:39
chem|sto/ MohammadAG18:40
javispedrochem|st, this is the x220t18:40
MohammadAGo/ chem|st18:40
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MohammadAGthe one all of you have, except me18:40
javispedrochem|st, as a laptop I like it, the ips screen is not worth it, more trouble than it is worth for some reason18:40
javispedro(color saturation depends on ambient temperature)18:41
chem|stthat sounds aweful18:41
javispedroyeah, on the other side, it is matte18:41
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* RST38h does nothave a lenovo, fortunately18:41
javispedrothe thinkpads at least don't look like if they are to break down at any moment18:43
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RST38hthinkpads do break down pretty often18:44
RST38hjust not mechanically18:44
RST38hbattery failures, spontaneous reboots and crashes, ugly screens18:44
RST38hgets worse with every new iteration18:45
javispedrohey, I love those18:45
javispedroI can repair those :)18:46
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javispedroso far, I am happy with it except for the screen18:47
concepta year ago I would kill for an IPS screen18:48
conceptthen I was assigned an MBP at work18:48
MohammadAG<javispedro> (color saturation depends on ambient temperature)18:48
MohammadAGisn't the N950 like that?18:48
MohammadAGthe colour shifts on mine sometimes18:49
MohammadAGlike it's warmer18:49
conceptnever thought a TN could perform so well18:49
javispedroconcept, you probably still have to kill, considering apple doesn't carry any IPS model18:49
conceptyeah, but apparently, TN screens can be good enough for my laptop needs18:50
conceptit's just that I had never experienced them as well done as they are on the MBP18:50
javispedroMohammadAG, more exaggerated here, when this thing boots after being in the cool, the windows logo is very noticeable oversaturated18:50
javispedroI should take a picture someday18:50
RST38hjavispedro: Steve Jobs is already dead, so whom does he have to kill?18:50
conceptI would, however, never accept a TN screen on a desktop18:50
javispedroMohammadAG, but btw, I have sometimes pondered if the N950 had a IPS screen, because there are many similiraties with those IPS screens I have seen18:51
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MohammadAGjavispedro, it's a bit clear to me18:51
MohammadAGusually it happens after a reboot18:51
javispedrofor ex both the N950 and the HP TouchPad have a "cross" pattern that repeats every 16 pixels or so18:51
MohammadAGeven if it was on like a minute ago18:51
javispedroand both exhibit indeed some changes in color18:51
MohammadAGthe scrolling thing turning the screen green is something else too18:52
javispedroRST38h, whoever rules the cult these days18:52
conceptRST38h: screen types are usually easy to tell just by looking at the screen from different angles; however when I tried an MBP for the first time I could honestly not tell that it was TN; it LOOKED like TN because the content would darken if looked from below, but every other aspect of TN (low color accuracy, view angle issues, etc.) was not there18:53
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javispedroconcept, I have a hard time distinguishing ANY panel from a IPS screen. Heck, I have a hard time distinguishing the lenovo from a el-cheapo Dell 17''18:55
RST38hjavispedro: they are rudderless18:55
javispedrological conclusion: IPS screens overrated.18:55
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javispedromaybe if you are some kind of truecolor audiophile...18:55
RST38hjavispedro: I think it might be the right time to start spreading rumors about Steve Jobs returning from the skies, the revolutionary new Apple device in his hands18:55
javispedroin which case you'd surely hit the color temperature depends on ambient temperature problem18:55
RST38hExcept that He is done with the tablets, have to come up with something else18:56
conceptis that an issue with the screen or the backlight?18:56
concepthard to believe that ambient temprature would affect color temperature18:57
conceptit's not like red pixels are different from blue ones18:57
javispedrosorry, saturation, not temp.18:57
conceptah, that makes sense18:57
javispedroRST38h, iGrave?18:58
javispedromore like iAmBackFromGrave =18:58
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RST38hjavispedro: iHalo19:01
RST38hAnd, of course, iCloud19:01
* RST38h suddenly understands why Apple is pushing cloud storage/computing so hard nowadays: the Top Cheese is managing the project from the sky!19:02
wmaroneRST38h: replacing the confessional with Facetime?19:02
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RST38hwmarone: gross.19:04
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RST38hon the other hand, confessions to the animated Steve Jobs, with Siri doing voice recognition and providing all falls into place now19:05
javispedroall hail the iFather!19:05
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luke-jrholy crap19:31
luke-jrlots of N900s on ebay, but it looks like they're all fraud19:31
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timelesshey luke-jr20:11
* timeless is hunting for an addressbook related app20:12
timelessi generally need a way to search for contacts by phone number20:12
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MohammadAGtimeless, there's an add on in -devel20:13
MohammadAGfor the stock contacts app20:13
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timelessi had no network, but it spent ages before it gave me the catalogs dialog20:23
timelessMohammadAG: yay! it works20:25
timelessis there a shopping list of basic addons that every n900 owner should get?20:26
timelessthat should be on it, but i suspect there are others and that i haven't collected them all20:26
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MohammadAGtimeless, yeah, HAM20:30
MohammadAGa painful shopping list though20:31
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ThreeMdamn i wish there were an option to put tracks directly to a playlist21:05
ThreeMlist all tracks, select and hold 1 track, add to playlist, and then select witch playlist will be filled21:05
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DocScrutinizerHAHA, you're priceless, guys21:25
DocScrutinizerHAM HA HA21:25
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DocScrutinizer[2012-03-12 19:26:06] <timeless> is there a shopping list of basic addons that every n900 owner should get?   [2012-03-12 19:30:58] <MohammadAG> timeless, yeah, HAM21:26
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DocScrutinizerI might consider exporting my apps 'backup' and providing it to you ;-)21:27
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DocScrutinizerhow's about fixed call duration logging via stored procedures in SQL, plus "extended phone log" app? Just for a teaser21:30
DocScrutinizer(I guess we should get the former into CSSU - though it's not exactly impossible to install via extras repo, if there was a pkg)21:33
MohammadAGor just override the painter for the custom cell via an LD_PRELOAD call that shows call duration in the list cell21:33
MohammadAGgiven rtcom-call-ui is C, it should be easy to override, hard to write21:34
MohammadAGbut we have javispedro for Gtk stuff :p21:34
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timelessi think i have one of the extended phone apps21:44
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timeless"Extended Call Lo" according to my launcher21:45
timelesswhat's this "fixed call duration logging" thing?21:45
timelessit sounds like something i'd want21:46
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user____is thwere any way to access the rowser's password db?21:59
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StucKmanI want to use a login/paaswd with another browser22:01
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DocScrutinizertimeless: see22:38
infoboti heard jrtools is
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DocScrutinizertimeless: and yes, the app is called "extended call log"22:40
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* DocScrutinizer idly ponders to add a line to the SQL triggers that pops up a notifyier telling the duration of the call just finished22:43
timelessooh, yum22:43
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DocScrutinizeryum what?22:45
DocScrutinizerI hope SQLite has a system() statement22:47
DocScrutinizerto call dbus-send22:47
NIN101i pretty much doubt that22:52
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ShadowJKwow, new error. "This SIM card can not be used in this device"23:01
ShadowJK(but it works in my E75)23:01
ShadowJKhard fail cellmo23:01
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conceptI'm using a SIM card from 1996 on the N900, works perfectly23:48
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