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| ShadowJK | Now my N900 dropped off cellular entirely. It has really degraded quickly, in a weekend | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 00:14 |
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| Hurrian | @ShadowJK, wdym, the cell applet disappears or cell svcs just fail? | 00:22 |
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| ShadowJK | both actually | 00:24 |
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| Hurrian | the cell applet is just buggy for me | 00:26 |
| Hurrian | prolly need to reflash soon | 00:26 |
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| ShadowJK | dmesg is filled with cmt crashing | 00:27 |
| Hurrian | ah, well i get none of that | 00:28 |
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| ShadowJK | Second N900 of mine that has died this way | 00:34 |
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| Hurrian | you can still use it as a thin client though | 00:43 |
| Hurrian | and testing stuff | 00:43 |
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| ShadowJK | as tablet | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | but I have 10 months left on warranty | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | hm, it seems somewhat tricky to convince N900 and my linux PC to do transfer over USB in a sensible way | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | I was using wifi, but decided to switch to usb for speed... | 00:55 |
| * ShadowJK notices a top speed of 15 megabytes/sec when switching scheduler on pc from cfq to noop, but then it dropped to 7M after switch complete | 00:56 | |
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| concept | ~flashing | 01:42 |
| infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 01:42 |
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| timeless_xchat | hello world | 03:53 |
| timeless_xchat | does anyone know of a maemo5 app that can search the address book by phone num\er? | 03:53 |
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| timeless_xchat | great... i found my problem | 03:55 |
| timeless_xchat | i have 5+ contacts for a name | 03:56 |
| timeless_xchat | and one of those additional contacts grew the phone number from the primary contact | 03:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo | 08:59 |
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| Macer | hm | 09:49 |
| Macer | i really need to make a mencoder script to encode stuff for my transformer | 09:50 |
| Macer | even if this transformer totally sucks | 09:50 |
| Macer | it is buggy a hell | 09:50 |
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| LinuxCode | has anyone here bought a replacement battery for their old N810 | 14:06 |
| LinuxCode | I want to use it to just check on zoneminder and check email | 14:06 |
| LinuxCode | I had 4 new batteries so far, and they all make the device make funny noises | 14:06 |
| LinuxCode | like clicking | 14:06 |
| LinuxCode | as if something is shorting | 14:07 |
| LinuxCode | yet the old battery works fine, it just dies | 14:07 |
| LinuxCode | I am starting to get the funny feeling that all the batteries on amazon are fake | 14:07 |
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| concept | the flashing tools have got to be the most unsable collection of crap I've ever seen | 14:16 |
| concept | nokia updater works on windows, but doesn't flash emmc (or if it does, it restores a backup right after, which is not intended) | 14:16 |
| concept | flasher-3.5 does not work on 64bit versions of windows 7 | 14:17 |
| concept | MacFlasher (3.12) gives an error because apparently it's a harmattan version | 14:17 |
| concept | flasher-3.5 for OSX gives a timeout error | 14:17 |
| Hurrian | @concept - i have flashed my N900 on all 3 platforms successfully | 14:17 |
| Hurrian | they do suck though, i'll give you that | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | on linux, they work like shit on an x86-64 distro | 14:18 |
| concept | 710flasher is a ppc app | 14:18 |
| concept | yeah, I was getting to that | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | on windows, rd flagging apparently does jack | 14:18 |
| concept | flasher-3.5 for linux is a 32bit bin linked to 32bit libraries, and when run on a 32bit system gives me a "No such file or directory" error while attempting to claim the USB interface (from within a VM) | 14:19 |
| concept | I'm really running out of options now, the next thing I'm gonna try is to boot a gentoo livecd on my mac with a flash drive connected with all the necessary files and hope that it works that way | 14:21 |
| Hurrian | usb forwarding is crap on all platforms, sure as f*** wouldn't trust that to flash my stuff | 14:21 |
| Hurrian | and btw, i prefer using macflasher to flash my N900 | 14:21 |
| psycho_oreos | It only flashes emmc when you flash it with emmc image, and I don't understand what you meant by restore functionality, there are none. It just wipes it clean back to how it was from manufacturer | 14:21 |
| Hurrian | osx - no need to worry about 32 or 64 bit atm, can set rd flags, no need to worry about drivers because libusb handles it nicely | 14:22 |
| concept | psycho_oreos: well, all my files were still there after flashing with nokia updater on windows; also, how do you specify an emmc images with that? | 14:22 |
| concept | Hurrian: macflasher gives me a timeout error | 14:22 |
| Hurrian | anyways, the concept of a desktop side flasher that does nothing but send images to nolo is a joke | 14:23 |
| Hurrian | you seriously DO NOT need that | 14:23 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, I don't use nokia updater with windows, in fact I　don't run windows on any of my machines. Therefore I　never really ran into that issue, I find it a little funny those with windows and using it to communicate with a linux device | 14:23 |
| Hurrian | nokia could've taken the thing that routers use to take images over tftp and embed that into a mini-phonet in nolo | 14:24 |
| concept | Error claiming USB interface: Operation timed out | 14:24 |
| concept | I get a lot of this from MacFlasher | 14:24 |
| Hurrian | it needs sudo | 14:24 |
| concept | which I used | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | oh and that | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | nokia, y u need root access for a damn flasher | 14:25 |
| psycho_oreos | imo that has nothing to do with nokia, not that I'm defending them, but under linux, one cannot access to raw sockets for some reason or even raw devices | 14:26 |
| concept | http://pastebin.com/XEGjVy05 | 14:28 |
| concept | that is what I get from macflasher | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | http://www.libusb.org/wiki/FAQ | 14:28 |
| concept | it is currently sitting on my desk with the backlight turned off, the nokia logo, and the USB icon in the top-right corner | 14:29 |
| concept | I did not have to install anything for macflasher, other than the package itself | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | @concept, you need to use the N900 flasher | 14:30 |
| Sicelo | hmm, that says harmattan | 14:30 |
| concept | I've tried that too | 14:30 |
| Hurrian | output pl0x | 14:30 |
| psycho_oreos | on the wiki they referred it as 770flasher | 14:30 |
| LinuxCode | [12:25] <Hurrian> nokia, y u need root access for a damn flasher | 14:31 |
| LinuxCode | that is a linux issue | 14:31 |
| concept | psycho_oreos: 770flasher is a ppc app | 14:31 |
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| Hurrian | @LinuxCode, libusb devs say root access is not required to run a libusb program, it's just needed to install a udev rule | 14:32 |
| LinuxCode | yes | 14:32 |
| concept | I think I'm just going to try the next safest option | 14:32 |
| LinuxCode | I know that | 14:33 |
| LinuxCode | its permissions | 14:33 |
| concept | which is to bootcamp a 32bit windows 7 | 14:33 |
| LinuxCode | it is not the flashers fault | 14:33 |
| LinuxCode | although they probably hard coded that in | 14:33 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, I assumed you tried either:　maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.dmg or maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_ppc.dmg?　I　don't know which mac (let alone year model) you have | 14:34 |
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| concept | psycho_oreos: the former, yes, it doesn't even install a binary | 14:34 |
| concept | although it does install a manpage | 14:34 |
| concept | so I kinda have a flasher-3.5 manpage without the accompanying flasher-3.5 binary installed | 14:35 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, are you able to query the package for its contents? I know under debian (or other linux distributions having capability to read deb files) that you can query the package for its contents, both installed and the package itself | 14:36 |
| concept | I did eventually find the flasher-3.5 binary somewhere ysterday in a temporary directory, ran it, and it required libusb installed, so I compiled that, ran it again, and it gave me the exact same timeout error that I pasted from flasher 3.12 earlier | 14:36 |
| concept | psycho_oreos: yes | 14:36 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, ideally you shouldn't have used flasher 3.12. That's noted to only work with harmattan devices (notabley N950/n9) | 14:37 |
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| concept | oh actually no, it is an installer | 14:38 |
| psycho_oreos | I wonder if you can pastebin the output of that, surely the binary has to be installed somewhere.. I can't see how or why it would install without the actual binary | 14:38 |
| concept | psycho_oreos: I believe it is not compatible with lion | 14:38 |
| concept | because the temporary files that I found were inside directories named 10.5 and 10.6 | 14:39 |
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| concept | I still have those files | 14:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | concept, not that I know but I'm sure in theory you maybe able to get away using 10.6. Though it is partially nokia's fault for being anal and giving people binary blobs which makes life rather awkward especially when the idea of `one suit fits all' doesn't really apply here | 14:40 |
| concept | I've tried 10.6 before | 14:42 |
| psycho_oreos | no luck? what about 10.5? | 14:42 |
| concept | oh go | 14:43 |
| concept | +d | 14:43 |
| concept | it requires an old version of libusb | 14:43 |
| concept | sonames don't match | 14:43 |
| concept | I installed libusb from the sources yesterday but didn't notice this at the time | 14:44 |
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| Hurrian | what the? | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | i flash with 10.7 | 14:51 |
| concept | using what? | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | the N900 flasher | 14:51 |
| Hurrian | use pacifist to extract the files, put them in manually | 14:52 |
| Hurrian | libusb just werks | 14:52 |
| concept | not here | 14:52 |
| concept | unless you installed an older version for whatever reason | 14:52 |
| Hurrian | weird. it could be because i'm running a hackintosh, though | 14:52 |
| Hurrian | prolly somewhere in the fact that i didnt enable USB suspend in dsdt | 14:53 |
| concept | core:10.6 jps$ sudo ./flasher-3.5 | 14:53 |
| concept | Password: | 14:53 |
| concept | dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/lib/libusb-0.1.4.dylib | 14:53 |
| concept | Referenced from: /private/tmp/pc-connectivity-bin/10.6/./flasher-3.5 | 14:53 |
| concept | Reason: image not found | 14:53 |
| concept | I have libsb-11 installed | 14:53 |
| concept | I have libsb-1 installed | 14:53 |
| Hurrian | use the one from the pkg | 14:54 |
| concept | thanks | 14:57 |
| concept | didn't know there were libs in the package | 14:58 |
| concept | ore:10.6 jps$ DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ../../pc-connectivity-bin/10.6/flasher-3.5 | head -1 | 14:58 |
| concept | flasher v2.5.2 (Nov 25 2009) | 14:58 |
| RST38h | concept: Please, stop flooding | 14:58 |
| concept | 2 lines is flooding? | 14:58 |
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| concept | Hurrian: that seems to have worked | 15:04 |
| concept | either that or I've just bricked the phone | 15:04 |
| concept | either way doesn't matter, I'm giving it away anyway | 15:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | giving it away? | 15:08 |
| psycho_oreos | to who? | 15:08 |
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| concept | a friend | 15:11 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh ok, I　thought you were giving it away to some random person. If that were the case, I'd say pass it to me (I'll pay for shipping costs if needed be :)) got a mate/friend here at my local 2600 meetup that would want a N900 | 15:13 |
| concept | I was considering getting an n9, but thanks to this experience, that is no longer an option for me | 15:14 |
| concept | I mean, wiping a phone shouldn't be such a daunting task | 15:15 |
| concept | an iphone can be wiped with a single click | 15:15 |
| psycho_oreos | n9 imo is worse than N900 | 15:15 |
| concept | well, I like the touchscreen on it | 15:16 |
| concept | plus it uses microsims, meaning I can exchange sims with my iphone | 15:16 |
| concept | and ipad | 15:16 |
| concept | honestly, being used to an iphone, I really do hate the resistive touchscreen on the n900 | 15:17 |
| psycho_oreos | I hate capacitative otoh, you actually have to have your finger to hit the screen properly.. when the buttons are small, you had to use the width of your finger just to be able to hit that corresponding key correctly or else you'll need to hit backspace | 15:18 |
| Macer | game change cracks me up | 15:18 |
| concept | well you don't have to press as much (or even touch, in the case of the idevices' screens) | 15:20 |
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| concept | the only issue I see with capacitive is that it doesn't work with gloves, but the nose is an excellent pointing device, too :P | 15:22 |
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| psycho_oreos | yeah it basically requires a skin or somewhat a conductive pointer to be able to register a `keystroke' on the capacitative touchscreen | 15:23 |
| psycho_oreos | and I'm not too particularly fond of iphones either, the way they force new owners to use itunes to activate the product and all the usual conspiracies surrounding `phoneback' | 15:25 |
| concept | they don't, anymore | 15:28 |
| concept | itunes is almost (possibly completely) optional now | 15:29 |
| concept | since ios 5 | 15:29 |
| concept | the only thing you need it for with ios 5 is to sync with content on your computer | 15:30 |
| * psycho_oreos also frowns the idea that it lacks a qwerty keyboard. Though ironically n9 is the same, it gives the developer of whatever `app' they choose to create whether to even implement simple functionalities like copy or paste. If they don't incorporate or they won't incorporate it, the end users will be the ones getting the short end of stick | 15:30 | |
| psycho_oreos | in fact for n9 when it comes to searching for music, I simply can't type in the letters to search up the music without the keyboard. I must scroll all the way up to force the search functionality to show up. If I hit the wrong area I end up playing my entire collection in shuffled order | 15:33 |
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| psycho_oreos | oh and the way Apple treats linux users.. the last I recall when linux users wanted itunes equivalent for linux.. Apple snubbed the linux community by saying that they should run the windows version, which forces linux users to run it through wine | 15:35 |
| psycho_oreos | wrong attitude.. they should never assimilate things.. the case would probably even apply if one for instance ran *BSD | 15:36 |
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| concept | their intent is to have people use their entire ecosystem, where things work amazingly well | 15:40 |
| psycho_oreos | rather.. to me they're trying to assimilate people into mac users like themselves. Sure there are some good things under Apple but otherwise, attitudes like that are purely just wrong. | 15:41 |
| concept | I have an imac, an mbp, an ipad 2, and an iphone 4s working in perfect harmony, plus I'm a developer, meaning I actually get to run stuff on the hardware itself with a debugger attached to it, no need for emulators or simulators, so even as a developer it feels great | 15:42 |
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| concept | I understand that point of view because I shared it in the past | 15:43 |
| concept | but then I realized that by sticking to such principles was preventing me from enjoying an experience that no other product ecosystem is capable of offering | 15:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | heh no system is perfect.. even if there's a perfect system.. somewhere down the line or living in utopia may drive one insane | 15:48 |
| concept | it is not about perfection, it is about integration and synergy | 15:49 |
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| concept | you really do feel that the whole is much bigger than the parts comprising it | 15:50 |
| concept | especially now with icloud | 15:50 |
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| concept | let me give you an example of something pretty simple | 15:51 |
| concept | reminders | 15:51 |
| concept | they've been around since forever | 15:51 |
| concept | ever since PDAs were invented, they had reminders | 15:51 |
| concept | but personally I've never found them too useful, they required me to input in the device itself, and that alone made them extremely inconvenient, plus they could only be set to specific times | 15:52 |
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| concept | then ios 5 came with its own implementation and 3 integrations that revolutionized reminders and made them essential to my life all of a sudden | 15:53 |
| concept | 1 - siri (I can literally tell my phone to remind me about something) | 15:53 |
| concept | 2 - location (I can set up reminders for when I arrive or leave locations, thanks to their integration with the location services on ios) | 15:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | unfortunately they aren't really revolutionary, its just the way they were configured so that it would ideally work the way its intended | 15:54 |
| concept | 3 - icloud (I can set up reminders on any of my idevices, or on icloud.com, and they will be instantly pushed to all other devices,) | 15:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | the underlying software fundamentals were already there for awhile, Apple just rearranged things to make it all appear to work out in favour of the user | 15:55 |
| concept | I'm not saying any of this is revolutionary, it is just the product of an integration, an integration that other ecosystems lack | 15:55 |
| concept | and thanks to that integration, reminders are now a fundamental part of my life | 15:56 |
| psycho_oreos | unarguably that is true however Apple is quite anal about others featuring similar functionalities, which to me is wrong attitude | 15:57 |
| concept | the apple ecosystem is full of little details like this | 15:57 |
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| psycho_oreos | what is that supposed to mean? I　mean stuff like where Apple sued Samsung for mimicking their iPad range and then the recent case against Proview | 16:00 |
| concept | psycho_oreos: I can understand that too | 16:01 |
| concept | if you focus into the big picture rather than the details (i.e.: it doesn't matter whom apple is suing and what for, but why) | 16:01 |
| concept | it is a fact that before the iphone, no other commercially successful phone looked anything like it | 16:02 |
| concept | apple accepted the risk and launched a completely different product that captured the attention of people | 16:02 |
| concept | then came other brands and attempted to mimic that product, after knowing that the formula was actually successful but without ever risking anything | 16:03 |
| concept | it is thus comprehensible that apple would be annoyed by such behavior, hence jobs' "go nuclear on android" quote | 16:03 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, all I can see is greed. iPod isn't revolutionary, the idea of hard disk based music players was first (iinm) originated by creative, notably their zen jukebox. Though at the time it was seen as rather bulky and ugly, so it never really sold well.. The idea of a tablet was never founded by Apple, it apparently came from a sci-fi movie and half the electronics manufacturers are making tablets just because ipad came around. Instead of Apple s | 16:04 |
| psycho_oreos | uing each and every other companies, they sued 1) their own CPU/RAM manufacturer, Samsung and 2) Proview simply because they utilise the words iPad internally in China | 16:04 |
| concept | in 2010 the ipad was launched in similar conditions to the iphone, to a market where nothing successful (if we can even talk of success in the tablet market before the ipad) | 16:05 |
| concept | and other brands, once again, tried to mimic the ipad | 16:05 |
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| psycho_oreos | yeah but that's not the point, in the case of Apple vs Samsung over galaxy tab vs iPad was the fact that Apple claimed they whole idea of tablet PC was theirs | 16:06 |
| concept | psycho_oreos: it has nothing to do with greed actually, it has more to do with perception; jobs' apple was not about money (in his own words, they had plenty, which they indeed do) | 16:06 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: I think it had a little to do with how profoundly similar looking the entire Tab product line was to that of the iPad | 16:06 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, no it is greed. Why would they be suing otherwise? jealousy? too much ego and power? | 16:06 |
| concept | apple never aggressively sought market share (as shown by the fact that they've never tried to offer low-end products) | 16:06 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Samsung copied Apple accessory for accessory | 16:07 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid, again still besides my point, search up on the case about how Apple claimed it idealised the whole tablet idea. That's the wrong sort of quotation to make | 16:08 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, never aggressively sought market share.. as if they didn't | 16:09 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | I don't think anyone was under any illusion that tablets simply didn't exist before the iPad, but it was fairly well established that they sucked balls | 16:09 |
| concept | they didn't, and they don't | 16:09 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Can't find any quotes supporting your belief that Apple claim to have invented the tablet, though | 16:10 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, well they may have sucked balls, but that still doesn't make the point that Apple was trying to claim the idea of tablet based pc as completely their own. This was what they claim against samsung in the case of galaxy tab | 16:11 |
| concept | they are in the business of selling you high-end products that work very well together but are not necessarily dysfunctional on other platforms | 16:11 |
| jacekowski | Gadgetoid_mbp: they claim that they invented specific design of it | 16:11 |
| jacekowski | Gadgetoid_mbp: which is what whole apple vs samsung thing was about | 16:11 |
| psycho_oreos | concept, wikipedia notes that pretty well, though Apple doesn't have as much hatred for being anti-competitive (like microsoft) though it did create a whole lot of hatred for the way it treats other players in the community | 16:12 |
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| concept | psycho_oreos: for example: one huge difference between the way apple does things and microsoft does things is that, when a standard or de facto standard is available, and provided that there is no historical reason to act differently, they follow it | 16:13 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Tablet, circa 1994; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JBEtPQDQNcI#! | 16:13 |
| jacekowski | well, thing is, everyone wants to keep their market | 16:13 |
| jacekowski | concept: microsoft follows a lot of standards | 16:13 |
| jacekowski | concept: and they created a lot of them | 16:13 |
| concept | jacekowski: just not C99 ;) | 16:13 |
| concept | or POSIX | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | windows IS POSIX compliant | 16:14 |
| concept | plus they have their own implementation of kerberos | 16:14 |
| concept | and their own implementation of xmpp auth | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | compatible with other implementations | 16:14 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | I can't find an early tablet without a stylus | 16:14 |
| concept | (and that's now, because they didn't even have xmpp before) | 16:14 |
| jacekowski | concept: that's because they want it integrated with their platform | 16:15 |
| jacekowski | concept: google doesn't have xmpp | 16:15 |
| concept | and their own psuh client mail protocol | 16:15 |
| jacekowski | concept: at all | 16:15 |
| jacekowski | concept: they added xmpp frontend to their platform | 16:15 |
| concept | jacekowski: I don't know why you are playing a google card in an apple vs. microsoft debate | 16:15 |
| concept | plus google does implement xmpp | 16:15 |
| concept | google talk is xmpp | 16:16 |
| jacekowski | no it's not | 16:16 |
| jacekowski | few years back when they introduced it, it didn't have anything xmpp with it | 16:16 |
| concept | so what is it? | 16:16 |
| Robot101 | jacekowski: erm | 16:16 |
| jacekowski | later on, they added xmpp c2s frontend | 16:16 |
| Robot101 | it's always been xmpp | 16:16 |
| Robot101 | you're thinking of facebook | 16:16 |
| jacekowski | no | 16:16 |
| concept | jacekowski: I don't recall it ever being anything else | 16:17 |
| jacekowski | xmpp like protocol | 16:17 |
| Robot101 | no, it's always been actual xmpp | 16:17 |
| jacekowski | it was their implementation of xmpp like protocol | 16:17 |
| Robot101 | no, it was XMPP | 16:17 |
| jacekowski | on their own platform | 16:17 |
| e0x | is true but now is full jingle | 16:17 |
| e0x | complaint | 16:17 |
| Robot101 | it's been XMPP since 2005 when we started the Telepathy project working on Google VOIP calls for the Nokia 770 | 16:17 |
| e0x | http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0166.html | 16:18 |
| Robot101 | their *voip* changed from gingle (their own thing) to jingle | 16:18 |
| Robot101 | but that doesn't make it not XMPP | 16:18 |
| e0x | is true , google in the begining have they own implementation of xmpp | 16:18 |
| e0x | but now they are complaint | 16:18 |
| jacekowski | yes, but it took them almost 2 years | 16:19 |
| e0x | indeed | 16:19 |
| Robot101 | no, it was always xmpp | 16:19 |
| Robot101 | they had their own voip extension | 16:19 |
| jacekowski | it was almost like xmpp | 16:19 |
| e0x | yes iwas alway xmpp but not a standard implementation | 16:19 |
| e0x | that is why just now the client can exploit all | 16:19 |
| e0x | feature | 16:19 |
| jacekowski | but there was a lot of incompatibilities between their xmpp and rest of the world | 16:19 |
| concept | anyway that's besides the point | 16:19 |
| jacekowski | going back to microsoft push email | 16:20 |
| Robot101 | it was a "standard implementation", there was no freaking voip standard for xmpp when they started | 16:20 |
| concept | the point is that microsoft only follows standards when they have something to gain from doing it | 16:20 |
| Robot101 | any XMPP client could connect, it just couldn't use voip, but none of them could | 16:20 |
| Robot101 | and any XMPP server could interop | 16:20 |
| concept | in every other case, where they can actually monopolize, they choose not to | 16:20 |
| concept | exchange protocol | 16:20 |
| concept | messenger protocol | 16:20 |
| concept | kerberos | 16:20 |
| jacekowski | Robot101: they didn't have s2s working for a very long time | 16:20 |
| concept | winapi | 16:20 |
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| jacekowski | activesync | 16:20 |
| jacekowski | there was nothing before activesync | 16:20 |
| jacekowski | and activesync is not just push e-mails, but contacts and calendar as well | 16:21 |
| concept | there was IMAP? | 16:21 |
| Robot101 | a very long time? about 6-9 months. january 2006 they enabled s2s. their entire implementation was built around XMPP from the start. | 16:21 |
| jacekowski | concept: imap can only do emails | 16:21 |
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| jacekowski | concept: activesync can do emails + contacts + calendar + tasks | 16:22 |
| concept | jacekowski: and you can add extra fields to rfc2822 messages to make calendars out of them | 16:22 |
| concept | contacts are covered by LDAP | 16:22 |
| jacekowski | yeah, do it on mobile phone | 16:23 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, actually, before 1994 the very first tablet was idealised in 1969 in a sci-fi movie | 16:23 |
| jacekowski | have constant ldap connection | 16:23 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, "Here in the U.S., Samsung has defended itself with a brief in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, arguing that Apple was hardly the first to think of a flat tablet. In "2001" -- actually shot in 1965 and released in 1968 -- two astronauts on the way to Jupiter watch themselves give a TV interview on what looks very much like an iPad." | 16:23 |
| psycho_oreos | http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/apple-ipad-samsung-galaxy-stanley-kubrick-showed-tablet/story?id=14387499#.T14GYIzB7zR | 16:23 |
| concept | jacekowski: that is not required, you can cache them | 16:23 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: yeah and the first mobile phone was idealised in Star Trek, doesn't mean they invented it | 16:23 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | I could draw you a picture of a hyperdrive right now, but I'd get laughed out of a patent office :D | 16:24 |
| jacekowski | concept: ldap can't do push | 16:24 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, and you were arguing that Samsung created accessories similar to Apple in terms of iPad? that wasn't Apple's sole reason for making a lawsuit against Samsung, in fact there's a very good article here: http://www.baekdal.com/opinion/apple-never-designed-the-ipad-they-undesigned-it/ | 16:24 |
| jacekowski | concept: and rfc2822 is from 2001 | 16:24 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, no it goes to show that I have founded statements | 16:24 |
| jacekowski | concept: activesync was around 6 years earlier | 16:24 |
| concept | jacekowski: there was rfc822 before that | 16:25 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: It doesn't matter. Apple are good and gracious, following in the footsteps of the great lord and master Steve Jobs. They bless each and every device with water from his holy magic font. And they're always right. | 16:25 |
| concept | but I give you the ldap push argument | 16:25 |
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| jacekowski | basicaly activesync was first protocol to put all that together | 16:25 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, "And they're always right." oh yeah they're always right.. it just makes more of a yes-man than a critic who can take arguments on both sides | 16:26 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: You forgot the holy font, don't forget the holy font. Samsung don't have a holy font, and therefore all their device are sinful and against Steve | 16:26 |
| jacekowski | + remote wipe + security policies | 16:27 |
| jacekowski | stuff that they like in corporations a lot | 16:27 |
| concept | anyway | 16:27 |
| concept | this debate is delaying me | 16:27 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, sinful? they never were really sinful, they're just clones that Apple couldn't resist itching.. Apple relied on Samsung for their CPU and RAM and now they're suing their own manufacturer, quite ironic how one would think that Apple is not trying to dominate the market and not being greedy | 16:28 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: the article you linked to is flawed, in that it lists all the alternatives that Apple gave Samsung and suggest that they are a list of everything Samsung should have done, rather than discrete suggestions for design variation | 16:28 |
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| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: it's more complicated than that | 16:29 |
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| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: because they are cooperating on one market doesn't mean they can't compete on the other | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: rolls royce and GE are perfect example there | 16:29 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, I have yet to see one article or link from you claiming that Apple was the first one that claim to have the idea of a tablet form PC | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: biggest jet engine manufacturers, and competitors | 16:30 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: however, GE engines use RR engine controllers, and RR engines use GE controllers | 16:30 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: I was waiting for *you* to post an article with Apple claiming that they were the first to have invented a tablet... have you suddenly switched to the other side of the argument!? | 16:30 |
| psycho_oreos | jacekowski, they can compete with each other.. I don't know about rolls royce vs GE case but Apple just likes to take out lawsuits | 16:30 |
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| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, no, because you were initially the one who pointed out that you could not find my statements about Apple not being the first one to create a tablet based PC | 16:31 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: thing is, apple is quite a big customer for samsugn | 16:31 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | psycho_oreos: No, I pointed out that I couldn't find any statements about Apple claiming they were the inventor of the tablet PC | 16:32 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and even if apple sues samsung, they can't just say that they won't sell them more CPUs | 16:32 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Which is why I said: "Can't find any quotes supporting your belief that Apple claim to have invented the tablet, though" | 16:32 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | The Tablet PC was invented by Steve Jobs when he travelled back in time to 1066 to watch the Battle of Hastings, anyway | 16:33 |
| psycho_oreos | Gadgetoid_mbp, and then I said that it was in the lawsuit no? what was that abc link for then? | 16:33 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | He sat there, watching the bloodlust and thought: "If only I had an absurdly huge camera to film this" | 16:33 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | And so it is told in the holy book of Steve | 16:33 |
| psycho_oreos | jacekowski, somewhat I wished that was moreso the case, even if Apple is their big customer.. but then again | 16:33 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: it's big business that most of us don't exactly understand | 16:34 |
| jacekowski | psycho_oreos: and lot of it happens without anybody else knowing | 16:34 |
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| jacekowski | we don't know if apple doesn't have like 20 years deal with samsung | 16:34 |
| psycho_oreos | jacekowski, well yeah lots of the details are really behind the doors deals that obviously keeps companies afloat. Though I'm sure Apple would now probably look for some other CPU/RAM manufacturer to replace whatever they used from Samsung just because of this case.. like historically what Apple typically likes to do, change their manufacturers completely on their own will | 16:36 |
| jacekowski | well, maybe not, maybe samsung is stuck with them for next 10 years | 16:37 |
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| psycho_oreos | though Apple may only use Samsung's components on maybe products other than iPad/iPhone *shrugs*, a way to try and somehow minimalise Samsung's earnings through certain loopholes in agreements. Who knows | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Gadgetoid: The apple Newton was pretty revolutionary. | 16:42 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | SpeedEvil: Apple just ripped off the pen and paper, shameless copycats! | 16:45 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | If the solution to tablet design were as obvious as all these bloggers seem to think it is, why the fuck didn't any other manufacturer release a tablet like this *before* Apple? | 16:47 |
| edheldil | does anyone here care about Apple vs. Samsung??? Why? :) | 16:47 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | edheldil: Not really, I'll talk about any old balls | 16:48 |
| edheldil | I thought that this channel is for those who do not envy slick iPhone experience ;-) | 16:48 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | edheldil: Yes, yes, the Nokia N8x0 is the only tablet! | 16:48 |
| edheldil | btw, Sammsung really does not have reason to dump Apple if it loses in suit - it would be a needless lost of profit | 16:48 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | I feel ashamed, I haven't broken out my N810 for ages :( | 16:48 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | Given by how big a percentage of Apple's business their "post-PC" devices are, I should imagine that Apple constitute a significant portion of Samsung's business | 16:49 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Leading me to conclude that Samsung would sooner cut off their own balls than drop Apple, but are probably secretly plotting to overthrow them with a radical new triangular tablet design | 16:50 |
| edheldil | btw, did they lose already? I was not watching the suit | 16:51 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Me either, no idea, couldn't give a monkeys unless it meant someone was going to come to my house and personally relieve my of my Apple devices | 16:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | The form factor of a touchscreen display is _quite_ obvious. | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | See '2010' - or old star treks. | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | For very ipad looking like things. | 17:01 |
| concept | it is thus strange that we had to wait until 2010 to have such devices | 17:02 |
| SpeedEvil | No, it's not. | 17:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I can imagine many things that can't be economically constructed. | 17:02 |
| concept | there were plenty of "tablet PCs" before the ipad | 17:03 |
| concept | I had one from HP in 2005 | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Making thin, light devices is hard. | 17:03 |
| concept | granted the touchscreen was utter crap, but the capacitive technology is much older than that | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't get why people think capacitive is important. | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | There are many ways to do a touchscreen. | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It makes about as much sens as going on about what the case is made out of. | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably less. | 17:04 |
| concept | perhaps capacitive is the cheapest and strongest option providing all the required multi-touch functionality | 17:04 |
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| concept | optical is crap, resistive with such capabilities may not be rugged enough for a mobile device, so that leaves scanline resistive as the ultimate solution for unlimite area touch sensibility | 17:07 |
| concept | unlimited* | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | SAW | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I hate capacitive, personally. | 17:07 |
| concept | s/scanline resistive/scanline capacitive/ | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I find a screen which has some degree of pressure sensitivity far more usable | 17:08 |
| concept | I love it | 17:08 |
| concept | you can emulate pressure sensitivity on a capacitive screen | 17:08 |
| concept | by measuring the touch area | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I've not seen a device that does it usefully. | 17:08 |
| concept | both my iphone and ipad do | 17:08 |
| concept | and music apps such as garageband make use of it | 17:09 |
| jacekowski | it doesn't exactly work | 17:09 |
| concept | it does | 17:09 |
| jacekowski | if you learn how to touch you screen | 17:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - so that you can place your finger on the device, without triggering a touch without a force of over a gram or so. | 17:09 |
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| concept | I don't think implementing such a resistive touchscreen would be practical on a mobile device | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I have one. Works well. | 17:12 |
| concept | I hope you're not referring to the N900 | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | WFM | 17:13 |
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| chem|st | concept: it was implemented... years ago... and you are far off reliable "both my iphone and ipad do", personally I prefer hardware which is usable for work- and home-usage in a single device... | 17:29 |
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| concept | both iphone and ipad are | 17:32 |
| concept | unless you work on very specific environments, such as network engineering | 17:32 |
| concept | *in | 17:32 |
| wmarone_ | trolling or...? | 17:34 |
| concept | considering how the american air force itself has ordered 18k ipads, how would I be trolling? | 17:34 |
| wmarone_ | because you're in here masturbating over the iPhone/iPad, and it's offtopic? | 17:35 |
| concept | apparently, ios devices are good enough for military applications, so yes, unless you work in very specific niche fields, they are likely to be perfectly usable at work for you | 17:35 |
| wmarone_ | no, see I'm a software developer | 17:35 |
| concept | wmarone_: there was a debate earlier, it's not my fault if you weren't following | 17:35 |
| wmarone_ | and software developers are explicitly restricted on iOS | 17:35 |
| wmarone_ | concept: that and I may not have been awake | 17:36 |
| concept | don't jump into a conversation claiming that the party you don't agree is trolling | 17:36 |
| concept | that makes you the troll | 17:36 |
| wmarone_ | no, see | 17:36 |
| wmarone_ | you're here touting the superiority of a platform that is unrelated to the topic of this channel | 17:36 |
| Proteous | +1 for troll | 17:36 |
| concept | wmarone_: what's the problem with being explicitly restricted? | 17:36 |
| Proteous | are we taking votes? | 17:36 |
| wmarone_ | concept: precisely the reason I won't buy iOS or Apple devices anymore | 17:37 |
| concept | wmarone_: I'm not touting the superiority of anything | 17:37 |
| wmarone_ | and precisely why I bought my N900 | 17:37 |
| wmarone_ | then why are you going on and on about your iPad and iPhone | 17:37 |
| concept | wmarone_: scroll back and find out | 17:37 |
| concept | this conversation started because I mentioned how unusable nokia software was when it came to performing the simple task of wiping an N900, compared to a single click to do the same on an iphone -- this is practical stuff, your rant about restrictuions is bullshit | 17:40 |
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| chem|st | concept: syncing contacts+calendars between several devices fails, you cannot even transfer a darn picture from an iphone to a powerbook... had to retake with my n900 as it was able to send pictures to the powerbook... | 17:45 |
| concept | chem|st: that is quite strange, since the iphone exports a DCIM filesystem to the outside world with pictures that is supposed to be reatable by any software designed to interact with digital cameras | 17:47 |
| concept | (just like the N900 does) | 17:47 |
| chem|st | concept: try bluetooth... | 17:47 |
| concept | ah, that's a totally different story altogether, the iphone lacks a lot of bluetooth profiles | 17:48 |
| chem|st | ... | 17:48 |
| chem|st | sending a file? | 17:48 |
| chem|st | essentials you mean | 17:48 |
| concept | I believe it only has 2 profiles | 17:48 |
| concept | one is for bt audio and the other I can't remember | 17:48 |
| concept | the ipad has one for bt keyboards too | 17:49 |
| chem|st | why does it have an option to send files via BT? | 17:49 |
| concept | the iphone? | 17:49 |
| concept | it doesn't, last time I checked... | 17:49 |
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| hanning | correct me if im wrong, but isn't the n900 a developer device never ment to be used by consumers or in a professional/productive environment? why should a comparison with an iphone be legit? | 17:50 |
| concept | I believe the n900 is considered a consumer device | 17:50 |
| luke-jr | hanning: it's a consumer device, but it isn't a phone. | 17:50 |
| concept | you may be confusing it with the n950 | 17:50 |
| chem|st | apple products are for people who either do photography/art something historicans graphicdesigners and for all people who think it is cool they put an "i" up front and made up that it invented rocketsience... for once I thought it is somelike scientology style | 17:51 |
| concept | I don't fall in any of those groups and have the whole ecosystem | 17:52 |
| concept | ok, I don't have an ipod, the iphone replaces it completely | 17:52 |
| chem|st | cannot be bothered | 17:53 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: The project, Homeless Hotspots, seeks to address people's need for a high-speed data connection at the festival in Austin, Texas, by issuing the homeless with T-shirts that say 'I am a 4G hotspot.' Passers-by may then pay what they wish either in cash or by PayPal to get online 4G networks via the Wi-Fi device that a homeless person is carrying and the proceeds go to the Front Steps Homeless shelter in Austin. | 17:53 |
| * RST38h comes here after 2-3 hours and concept is *still* ranting about his ipod/iphone/ipad | 17:54 | |
| chem|st | RST38h: nice | 17:54 |
| concept | RST38h: souds like an interesting project | 17:54 |
| RST38h | I think you do fall into one of "these" groups, concept | 17:54 |
| chem|st | 2-3h? | 17:54 |
| concept | RST38h: the argument has gone through several iterations now :P | 17:55 |
| chem|st | RST38h: do you think the n9 is a suitable replacement for a n900? | 17:55 |
| concept | I'm just replying to people who replied to me after only reading a half of it | 17:55 |
| RST38h | chem|st:Yes, I can live with it | 17:56 |
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| chem|st | concept: fyi, talking to apple fanboys is like talking to religious fanatics... anytime! | 17:56 |
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| javispedro | ah, another member of the cult! | 17:57 |
| javispedro | and moo RST38h | 17:57 |
| RST38h | reMoo javispedro | 17:57 |
| chem|st | RST38h: hmm it is expensive BUT the only non-android device somewhat "good" | 17:57 |
| * RST38h amplifying,mixing,and amplifying audio samples | 17:57 | |
| concept | chem|st: as to your question, I am a 95.2% disabled person with two open angle glaucomas and cornea distrophies, one eye blind, 10% of sight left in the other eye, and a lot of photophobia caused by the medication I take to keep the remaining sight I have | 17:57 |
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| RST38h | chem|st: what is expensive? n9? cost me RUR14120 last time I bought it | 17:58 |
| concept | chem|st: apple has given me the best accessibility options I could possibly imagine, in fact they've gone below my imagination in terms of accessibility without getting in the way | 17:58 |
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| RST38h | IMEIs on the device, the upper part of the box, and the lower part of the box did not match though =) | 17:58 |
| concept | they have little competition in the desktop market and no competition at all in the mobile market when it comes to usability | 17:59 |
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| chem|st | RST38h: ouch | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Doc, I think it is time for the hammer | 17:59 |
| * javispedro concurs | 17:59 | |
| hanning | usability is something my grandma cares about ;) | 17:59 |
| concept | so, as you can see, I do not fall into your description | 17:59 |
| chem|st | hanning: don't take the piss out of disabled ppl... | 17:59 |
| concept | hanning: your grandma and anyone whose time isn't worthless | 17:59 |
| RST38h | BTW, patient not accepting his mental illness existence is one of the main symptoms | 18:00 |
| concept | I accept my mental illness too | 18:00 |
| concept | I'm a psychopath | 18:00 |
| chem|st | RST38h: nice one... | 18:00 |
| RST38h | But let Doctor Obvious give you something to talk about | 18:00 |
| RST38h | concept: So, what oher Apple gear have you got? Other than iPhone Imean? | 18:01 |
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| concept | why does it matter? | 18:01 |
| chem|st | iX but ipod | 18:01 |
| chem|st | ... | 18:01 |
| RST38h | No matter at all, just thought it would be both pleasant for you to talk about and enlightening for everyone | 18:01 |
| concept | it is not | 18:02 |
| concept | it is pleasant to argue | 18:02 |
| RST38h | After all,few people here got any Apple stuff, we are kinda ignorant | 18:02 |
| concept | not to brag, or whatever you thought I was doing | 18:02 |
| concept | I have already shared my thoughts | 18:02 |
| RST38h | So, we are not gonna find out? iMac? iPad? Apple TV maybe? | 18:03 |
| concept | does it matter? | 18:03 |
| RST38h | Or maybe some retro Apple stuff, you know, good one, the Cube, etc? | 18:03 |
| chem|st | RST38h: have you tried any bada devices yet? | 18:03 |
| concept | no, I do not keep junk | 18:04 |
| RST38h | chem|st: yes. they are basically korean symbian clones =) | 18:04 |
| RST38h | chem|st: feature phones | 18:04 |
| concept | which is why I'm giving my N900 away | 18:04 |
| RST38h | nice, found people to take it from you? Should I suggest some? | 18:04 |
| concept | yes, I found people | 18:05 |
| javispedro | hey, I could use one, my camera button is wearing out | 18:05 |
| RST38h | [Elfing. It is infinitely more fun than trolling.] | 18:05 |
| chem|st | .oO(no hope, no glory) | 18:05 |
| RST38h | concept: niiiice | 18:05 |
| chem|st | 11 | 18:05 |
| RST38h | chem|st: Samsung Note though =) | 18:06 |
| chem|st | fo all who do not know german... 11 is elf | 18:06 |
| concept | LOL | 18:06 |
| chem|st | RST38h: yeah was thinking about that but still I want to keep resistive | 18:06 |
| RST38h | chem|st: If you can stand certain Android specifics. | 18:06 |
| RST38h | chem|st: You are out of luck then, no more resistive | 18:07 |
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| chem|st | RST38h: do you mean the "do not share with google" button? | 18:07 |
| javispedro | sadly the note still has some quirks | 18:07 |
| RST38h | chem|st: Nte has got inductive stylus though, I hope it kinda replaces resistive | 18:07 |
| javispedro | I've been really considering one, I found one at demo on a store | 18:07 |
| javispedro | it is kinda unprecise at corners (like the n900, but much more noticeable) | 18:07 |
| RST38h | chem|st: actually, google already has all your data. It is not google you have to worry about. | 18:08 |
| concept | RST38h: how do those stylii work? | 18:08 |
| javispedro | the n900 was "insensitive" on the corners, but the note seems like it is just imprecise | 18:08 |
| RST38h | concept: a coil in the stylus | 18:08 |
| chem|st | well, it does not have my addressbook, at least not those not on f*c*book | 18:08 |
| concept | I've seen one of HP's laptops with a capacitive screen and a very strange pointy stylus that works on it and can even detect when it's touching and not touching the screen | 18:08 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Have I told you of a funny test we did at the AT&T store with a friend? | 18:09 |
| javispedro | isn't that the definition of a stylus? | 18:09 |
| javispedro | RST38h, I think not | 18:09 |
| RST38h | javispedro: ANyway, AT&T had a bunch of Android phones there, and a few WP7 phones (2) | 18:09 |
| concept | javispedro: I suppose so, but traditionally, capacitive stylii have thick round edges | 18:10 |
| javispedro | concept, that's because capacitive sucks | 18:10 |
| chem|st | javispedro: he means the pointer is moving even without touch | 18:10 |
| RST38h | javispedro: the task was to take the phone into your right hand,call up the address book, and type in a name | 18:10 |
| RST38h | javispedro: as if searching for it | 18:10 |
| chem|st | inductive stuff... | 18:10 |
| javispedro | chem|st, I have one such capacitive+wacom lenovo tablet right here. | 18:10 |
| javispedro | chem|st, it's the one I'm using fwiw. | 18:10 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Samsung phones absolutely positively sucked at it, just could not get the keypresses right | 18:10 |
| concept | chem|st: so it's an inductive / capacitive screen working at the same time? | 18:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Including GalaxyII, which was a bit better due to its larger screen but still sucked | 18:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: HTC was better. HTC's WP7 phone was better still. | 18:11 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, hah | 18:15 |
| javispedro | RST38h, I do think that the WP7 vkb looks an improvement over samsung's stock one | 18:15 |
| javispedro | (which was not android's at least on the note) | 18:15 |
| javispedro | samsung is too much interested in looks and flashy stuff, I got a flashy animation telling me some gesture to do with the pen while pressing a button on the device | 18:16 |
| javispedro | I was not able to do the gesture properly | 18:16 |
| javispedro | but I did embarrass myself | 18:16 |
| javispedro | someone didn't check on the ergonomics | 18:17 |
| javispedro | (though I admit that with some practice I could get the handle out of it, and I do miss the stylus enough to forgive certain quirks) | 18:17 |
| RST38h | javispedro: we tried both samsung and vanilla android keyboards,, and swype | 18:19 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: swype got discarded first, it could not understand non-english names | 18:19 |
| RST38h | javispedro: samsung's vkbd was marginally better than android's own | 18:19 |
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| RST38h | my guess is though, that the 5"+ Note won't have this vkbd problem - huge keys | 18:20 |
| javispedro | well, not that huge :) | 18:23 |
| javispedro | I do have problems on the touchpad for ex. | 18:23 |
| * javispedro 's heart is with resistive :) | 18:23 | |
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| * RST38h wants full Wacom tablet functionality | 18:24 | |
| RST38h | with accurate pressure sensing | 18:24 |
| RST38h | To hell with resistive then | 18:24 |
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| javispedro | the problem is that half of the time I want to use nails, or whatever other blunt object I happen to have with me | 18:27 |
| javispedro | also, both wacom and capacitive are just too sensitive | 18:27 |
| RST38h | yeah | 18:27 |
| RST38h | same here | 18:27 |
| RST38h | but I am getting used to n950/n9 screen, too used in fact. feels too natural to swipe etc | 18:28 |
| javispedro | not arguing. going back to n900 does require retraining. | 18:28 |
| RST38h | even although it tends to malfunction with dry fingers | 18:28 |
| * RST38h often tries swiping N900 now | 18:28 | |
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| javispedro | but this very morning I had the usual screen fails to respond because it was grounded somewhere | 18:29 |
| javispedro | you have to pick up the n950 or otherwise you can't even double-tap wake it | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG | I installed a swipe tweak on the iPhone so I don't make mistakes anymore :p | 18:31 |
| RST38h | hehe, put it on plastic =) | 18:31 |
| concept | it is likely to sense your fingers through plastic as well as thinner fabric | 18:33 |
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| javispedro | depends on the weather | 18:33 |
| javispedro | that's capacitive for you! | 18:33 |
| concept | my iphone feels my leg through my pocket's fabric, for example | 18:34 |
| RST38h | the only positive thing of capacitive is the ability to use glass | 18:34 |
| RST38h | yes, we are well aware of Apple users' intimate relations to their fetish objects | 18:34 |
| javispedro | technically, there's resistive over glass, I remember Palm advertised it for the original Tungsten | 18:34 |
| jacekowski | you probably can do resistive glass touchscreen | 18:34 |
| RST38h | how do they do it??? | 18:34 |
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| jacekowski | RST38h: glass can flex | 18:35 |
| RST38h | a bit, yes. then it breaks. | 18:35 |
| jacekowski | quite a lot | 18:35 |
| concept | can't piezo materials be used to make hard pressure-sensing screens? | 18:35 |
| RST38h | not easily | 18:35 |
| javispedro | the problem is that sensitivity decreases | 18:35 |
| javispedro | (wen using glass I mean) | 18:35 |
| RST38h | piezo stuff requires crystal lattices (right word?) in just the right orientation | 18:36 |
| RST38h | doing this over a large transparent surface is probably an issue | 18:37 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: btw, can still buy cheap chinese android tablets with resistive screens, although they all kinda suck | 18:38 |
| javispedro | I know that :( | 18:38 |
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| MohammadAG | weak | 18:39 |
| jacekowski | tbh, i like resistive touchscreen reliability | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG | make your own phone | 18:39 |
| javispedro | experience with a cheap chinse gps | 18:39 |
| RST38h | theydo not have that nice Nokia resistive screen | 18:39 |
| jacekowski | hmm, repeatability | 18:39 |
| javispedro | jacekowski, indeed. | 18:39 |
| jacekowski | you touch it with same force every time and it responds always | 18:39 |
| RST38h | more like average chinese crap - less transparent, less sensitive at the edges, gets worse with time | 18:39 |
| jacekowski | capacitive sometimes don't respond | 18:39 |
| jacekowski | for various reasons | 18:39 |
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| MohammadAG | get a pandaboard, slap on your own Ubuntu variant with some Qt UI, take out the N900's touchscreen and you're done | 18:39 |
| chem|st | javispedro: is the lenovo any good? | 18:39 |
| chem|st | o/ MohammadAG | 18:40 |
| javispedro | chem|st, this is the x220t | 18:40 |
| MohammadAG | o/ chem|st | 18:40 |
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| MohammadAG | the one all of you have, except me | 18:40 |
| javispedro | chem|st, as a laptop I like it, the ips screen is not worth it, more trouble than it is worth for some reason | 18:40 |
| chem|st | hmm | 18:41 |
| javispedro | (color saturation depends on ambient temperature) | 18:41 |
| chem|st | uh | 18:41 |
| chem|st | that sounds aweful | 18:41 |
| javispedro | yeah, on the other side, it is matte | 18:41 |
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| * RST38h does nothave a lenovo, fortunately | 18:41 | |
| javispedro | the thinkpads at least don't look like if they are to break down at any moment | 18:43 |
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| RST38h | thinkpads do break down pretty often | 18:44 |
| RST38h | just not mechanically | 18:44 |
| RST38h | battery failures, spontaneous reboots and crashes, ugly screens | 18:44 |
| RST38h | gets worse with every new iteration | 18:45 |
| javispedro | hey, I love those | 18:45 |
| javispedro | I can repair those :) | 18:46 |
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| javispedro | so far, I am happy with it except for the screen | 18:47 |
| concept | a year ago I would kill for an IPS screen | 18:48 |
| concept | then I was assigned an MBP at work | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | <javispedro> (color saturation depends on ambient temperature) | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | isn't the N950 like that? | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | the colour shifts on mine sometimes | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | like it's warmer | 18:49 |
| concept | never thought a TN could perform so well | 18:49 |
| javispedro | concept, you probably still have to kill, considering apple doesn't carry any IPS model | 18:49 |
| concept | yeah, but apparently, TN screens can be good enough for my laptop needs | 18:50 |
| concept | it's just that I had never experienced them as well done as they are on the MBP | 18:50 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, more exaggerated here, when this thing boots after being in the cool, the windows logo is very noticeable oversaturated | 18:50 |
| javispedro | I should take a picture someday | 18:50 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Steve Jobs is already dead, so whom does he have to kill? | 18:50 |
| concept | I would, however, never accept a TN screen on a desktop | 18:50 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG, but btw, I have sometimes pondered if the N950 had a IPS screen, because there are many similiraties with those IPS screens I have seen | 18:51 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, it's a bit clear to me | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG | usually it happens after a reboot | 18:51 |
| javispedro | for ex both the N950 and the HP TouchPad have a "cross" pattern that repeats every 16 pixels or so | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG | even if it was on like a minute ago | 18:51 |
| javispedro | and both exhibit indeed some changes in color | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG | the scrolling thing turning the screen green is something else too | 18:52 |
| javispedro | RST38h, whoever rules the cult these days | 18:52 |
| concept | RST38h: screen types are usually easy to tell just by looking at the screen from different angles; however when I tried an MBP for the first time I could honestly not tell that it was TN; it LOOKED like TN because the content would darken if looked from below, but every other aspect of TN (low color accuracy, view angle issues, etc.) was not there | 18:53 |
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| javispedro | concept, I have a hard time distinguishing ANY panel from a IPS screen. Heck, I have a hard time distinguishing the lenovo from a el-cheapo Dell 17'' | 18:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: they are rudderless | 18:55 |
| javispedro | logical conclusion: IPS screens overrated. | 18:55 |
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| javispedro | maybe if you are some kind of truecolor audiophile... | 18:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I think it might be the right time to start spreading rumors about Steve Jobs returning from the skies, the revolutionary new Apple device in his hands | 18:55 |
| javispedro | in which case you'd surely hit the color temperature depends on ambient temperature problem | 18:55 |
| RST38h | Except that He is done with the tablets, have to come up with something else | 18:56 |
| concept | is that an issue with the screen or the backlight? | 18:56 |
| concept | hard to believe that ambient temprature would affect color temperature | 18:57 |
| concept | it's not like red pixels are different from blue ones | 18:57 |
| javispedro | sorry, saturation, not temp. | 18:57 |
| concept | ah, that makes sense | 18:57 |
| javispedro | RST38h, iGrave? | 18:58 |
| javispedro | more like iAmBackFromGrave = | 18:58 |
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| javispedro | </badpun> | 18:58 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: iHalo | 19:01 |
| RST38h | And, of course, iCloud | 19:01 |
| * RST38h suddenly understands why Apple is pushing cloud storage/computing so hard nowadays: the Top Cheese is managing the project from the sky! | 19:02 | |
| concept | LOL | 19:02 |
| wmarone | RST38h: replacing the confessional with Facetime? | 19:02 |
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| RST38h | wmarone: gross. | 19:04 |
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| RST38h | on the other hand, confessions to the animated Steve Jobs, with Siri doing voice recognition and providing answers...it all falls into place now | 19:05 |
| javispedro | all hail the iFather! | 19:05 |
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| luke-jr | holy crap | 19:31 |
| luke-jr | lots of N900s on ebay, but it looks like they're all fraud | 19:31 |
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| timeless | hey luke-jr | 20:11 |
| * timeless is hunting for an addressbook related app | 20:12 | |
| timeless | i generally need a way to search for contacts by phone number | 20:12 |
| timeless | (n900) | 20:12 |
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| MohammadAG | timeless, there's an add on in -devel | 20:13 |
| MohammadAG | for the stock contacts app | 20:13 |
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| MohammadAG | timeless, http://maemo.org/packages/view/extended-contacts-search/ | 20:14 |
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| timeless | thanks! | 20:21 |
| timeless | grr. | 20:22 |
| timeless | ham=stupid | 20:22 |
| timeless | i had no network, but it spent ages before it gave me the catalogs dialog | 20:23 |
| timeless | MohammadAG: yay! it works | 20:25 |
| timeless | is there a shopping list of basic addons that every n900 owner should get? | 20:26 |
| timeless | that should be on it, but i suspect there are others and that i haven't collected them all | 20:26 |
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| MohammadAG | timeless, yeah, HAM | 20:30 |
| MohammadAG | a painful shopping list though | 20:31 |
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| ThreeM | damn i wish there were an option to put tracks directly to a playlist | 21:05 |
| ThreeM | list all tracks, select and hold 1 track, add to playlist, and then select witch playlist will be filled | 21:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | HAHA, you're priceless, guys | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAM HA HA | 21:25 |
| e0x | ? | 21:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-12 19:26:06] <timeless> is there a shopping list of basic addons that every n900 owner should get? [2012-03-12 19:30:58] <MohammadAG> timeless, yeah, HAM | 21:26 |
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| e0x | ^_^ | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I might consider exporting my apps 'backup' and providing it to you ;-) | 21:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how's about fixed call duration logging via stored procedures in SQL, plus "extended phone log" app? Just for a teaser | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | (I guess we should get the former into CSSU - though it's not exactly impossible to install via extras repo, if there was a pkg) | 21:33 |
| MohammadAG | or just override the painter for the custom cell via an LD_PRELOAD call that shows call duration in the list cell | 21:33 |
| MohammadAG | given rtcom-call-ui is C, it should be easy to override, hard to write | 21:34 |
| MohammadAG | but we have javispedro for Gtk stuff :p | 21:34 |
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| timeless | i think i have one of the extended phone apps | 21:44 |
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| timeless | "Extended Call Lo" according to my launcher | 21:45 |
| timeless | what's this "fixed call duration logging" thing? | 21:45 |
| timeless | it sounds like something i'd want | 21:46 |
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| user____ | is thwere any way to access the rowser's password db? | 21:59 |
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| StucKman | I want to use a login/paaswd with another browser | 22:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless: see | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~jrtools | 22:38 |
| infobot | i heard jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 22:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless: and yes, the app is called "extended call log" | 22:40 |
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| * DocScrutinizer idly ponders to add a line to the SQL triggers that pops up a notifyier telling the duration of the call just finished | 22:43 | |
| timeless | ooh, yum | 22:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yum what? | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hope SQLite has a system() statement | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | to call dbus-send | 22:47 |
| NIN101 | i pretty much doubt that | 22:52 |
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| ShadowJK | wow, new error. "This SIM card can not be used in this device" | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | (but it works in my E75) | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | hard fail cellmo | 23:01 |
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| concept | I'm using a SIM card from 1996 on the N900, works perfectly | 23:48 |
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| dhbiker | lol | 23:49 |
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