IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-02-17

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jacekowskiemmc first and then combined00:01
jacekowskibut you can do it the other way, just make sure it doesn't restart in between00:02
DocScrutinizerasking MohammadAG seems a futile effort these days00:06
DocScrutinizerhe's as rare as x-fade00:07
DocScrutinizerNsaneCoffe: see00:08
DocScrutinizer~jrtools00:08
infobotrumour has it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools00:08
DocScrutinizerand no, there's basically no difference in flashing eMMC vs rootfs00:08
DocScrutinizersee00:08
DocScrutinizer~flashing00:08
infoboti guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware00:08
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lacerda@all: how can I get the builtin music player current state (i.e. if it is playing, paused, stoped) via dbus?01:18
merlin1991lacerda: it's actually not the mediaplayer that plays but mafw01:19
lacerdamerlin1991: indeed01:20
merlin1991the builtin player is just a gui over a media framework01:20
merlin1991there are indepth docs somewhere01:20
lacerdamerlin1991: actually I would like to do this to harmattan, but nobody answered me on #harmattan channel01:21
merlin1991lacerda: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Media_Application_Framework_%28MAFW%29 might be a start01:21
merlin1991nfc if that docs still apply for harmattan01:21
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merlin1991because mafw in harmattan is closed source without docs01:21
lacerdamerlin1991: thanks, I'll take a look01:21
merlin1991you might be able to listen in to the mediaplayer logic with dbus-monitor01:22
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lacerdamerlin1991: huum... I think that dbus-monitor could be useful01:25
lacerdadidn't know about it01:25
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NsaneCoffeBeen out for a while but Thanks anyway jacekowski and DocScrutinizer01:44
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MohammadAGjacekowski: Why me? :p01:58
DocScrutinizerlacerda: yep, indeed. dbus-monitor02:03
DocScrutinizerNsaneCoffe: yw02:04
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lacerdaDocScrutinizer, merlin1991: thanks to dbus-monitor I could find what I want :)02:06
lacerdastate_changed signal02:06
DocScrutinizerwow02:06
DocScrutinizerI was already about to write a reply in #harm like "in HARM if it's not a function provided by QML you're not supposed to mess with it"02:07
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.wirelessmodemapi.com :-((03:23
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pseudonymousI'm having a strange issue - I have an ssh server running on my n900 - but it doesnt seem to be openssh (which I've installed) as changes in the config don't seem to be reflected. How to identify?04:43
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robbiethe1stMake sure to restart the ssh server so it gets the changes04:54
pseudonymousrobbiethe1st: I did ( '/etc/init.d/ssh stop' ) - Even after that the ssh server still seems to be running. It's strange04:57
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robbiethe1stdunnp05:00
robbiethe1st*dunno05:00
DocScrutinizerhey robbiethe1st05:02
DocScrutinizerlong time no see :-)05:02
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robbiethe1stMore or less, yeah05:05
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pseudonymousrobbiethe1st: woopie! Turns out I was being an idiot - I must've tabbed my way to greatness and glory and thus edited /etc/ssh/ssh rather than /etc/ssh/sshd05:13
DocScrutinizerso you got your problem sortd now?05:17
pseudonymousyup - I finally took the time to find some way of utilizing this n900 as a modem, about bloody time too.. If you appreciate the irony, I'm studying computer science at a university dedicated solely to IT - yet most of the time the wifi is b0rked05:18
pseudonymous(hence the mission get a connection via the phone)05:18
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DocScrutinizersounds all about as normal as it could get05:19
DocScrutinizerprobably there's only one place on earth where WLAN is even more borked than at your uni: CCCamp05:21
DocScrutinizer;-D05:21
pseudonymousYea well - between incompetent IT staff (or seriously overworked, I don't know which tbh) and bad architectural decisions. It's a mess.. Anyway.. at least this will work :)05:21
pseudonymousDocScrutinizer: oh, CCC turned out to be what I thought it was - yea, NO WAY I'd hook up a machine to that ;)05:22
robbiethe1stSpeaking of networking, I should go back and continue to try to get Bluetooth PAN working on my N90005:23
robbiethe1stI'd like to take my Windows 7 machine which has internet and share it to my phone over PAN05:24
pseudonymousrobbiethe1st: if it's on the client-side then perhaps you shouldn't bother. At least for my distro there seems to be a consensus that 1) bluetooth is a mess 2) is even moreso broken in this distro than others05:24
pseudonymousoh, nvm ;)05:24
robbiethe1steither way...05:25
robbiethe1stActually, while you're around, DocScrutinizer... I have to ask: My N900's very usable. Period. But if I leave any applications open and leave it for a while, when I come back it'll sit there pulling stuff out of swap(I guess) for several minutes. It doesn't do this if I'm actively using the device, though05:32
robbiethe1stAny way to prevent it doing this?05:32
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DocScrutinizerrobbiethe1st: you might try swappolube and the associated thread on tmo where several people posted results of reasonable effort and investigation to find best settings05:34
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DocScrutinizeresp when $applications you have open includes microb though, you are better off simply closing microb as soon as you don't actively use it anymore05:36
robbiethe1stYeah, I suppose05:36
robbiethe1stSee, the thing that bothers me is that it swaps properly and is fast and reactive when in use05:37
DocScrutinizerthere are some webpages out there that tend to eat all TAM and swapspace even on my desktop PC, no matter which browser I use05:37
robbiethe1stMultiple microB windows and things are still fluid.05:37
robbiethe1st... it's just if I leave it for a bit, it 'goes to sleep', and then swaps like mad.05:38
DocScrutinizersome supposedly flash advertisment adds on pages tend to eat ram as long as they run05:38
DocScrutinizeralso youtube05:39
DocScrutinizeranything with flash05:39
DocScrutinizersometimes also JS05:39
robbiethe1stWell, I blocked flash, so that's not an issue05:39
DocScrutinizerlast Konqueror crash been like 5h ago, on my laptop05:39
robbiethe1st(the flashBlock click-to-play thingie works great)05:39
DocScrutinizermhm05:40
DocScrutinizerno clue then05:40
DocScrutinizerI'm just used to the problem, and deal with it by closing all browser windows as soon as possible05:40
robbiethe1styeah, same05:41
DocScrutinizermaybe we could help the issue by starting browserd with some quotas for ram usage05:42
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DocScrutinizerso it outokills rather than hogging 600MB ram05:42
DocScrutinizerauto*05:42
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internetishardwhat's the best phone (besides n900) with a hardware keyboard?07:48
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internetishardhttp://circuitzoo.com/2010/08/14/mobile-phone/nokia-n900-top-bottom-view-pcb where do I find out what these names mean? "V1311" etc...08:08
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internetishardboy the screen cable is hard to get back in08:27
psycho_oreosI don't think they mean anything apart from just references to which component is what. I think you may find that in the N900 schematics. They maybe available from wmo08:29
internetishardtrying to fix my keyboard08:33
internetishard'g' stopped working after i dropped some water on it08:33
internetishardand then the whole keyboard08:33
psycho_oreosN900 isn't a phone, its an internet tablet with phone functionality. N950 would have been its successor or maybe a crossbred between N950 and n9 components (RAM, NFC, gorilla glass, etc). Apart from that, there's no "best" each smartphone or internet tablet with phone functionality are good and bad in their own ways08:34
internetishardYou have a favorite08:35
internetishardhighest end smartphone with HW keyboard08:35
psycho_oreosmaybe aava mobile?08:37
internetishard...and it starts08:38
internetishardmoment of truth!08:38
psycho_oreoseven a very high end smartphone comes with its own set of limitations08:38
internetishardI'm looking for one with a HW keyboard08:39
internetishardaava does?08:39
internetishardHAH08:41
internetishardkeyboard is working again... not the 'g' button though08:41
psycho_oreoslooks like it doesn't have HW keyboard, I thought the prototype variant did08:41
psycho_oreosthere's a few high end android powered smartphones that has HW keyboard08:42
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internetishardLike?08:44
internetishardThere are lots of android phones people would call "high end"08:44
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psycho_oreosMotorola DROID 4 XT89408:47
psycho_oreosexactly, reinstating what I stated before that "high end" term would be circumstantial08:48
internetishardI just want an eeepc in the form factor of the n90008:48
internetishardwith GPS et al that works great08:48
psycho_oreosnot going to happen08:48
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* RST38h moos10:17
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edheldilwhat signal I should connect to on QListWidget? itemActivated() does not seem to fire if I just tap an item11:42
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DocScrutinizerinternetishard: you should remove domesheet and clean and dry thoroughly with a smooth cloth11:51
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SiceloDocScrutinizer: btw what is 'technical' name for the barrel connectors, eg on old nokia charger?12:19
DocScrutinizererr, that12:19
DocScrutinizerdunno a better name12:19
DocScrutinizernot even in german12:19
DocScrutinizerin German I recently read "hollow plug"12:20
Sicelothere's a wikipedia page u showed last time :/12:20
Siceloa few months ago..12:20
Sicelofunny how when u need something u can't find it :)12:20
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Siceloah, think i got it.. this one, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_connector#Cylindrical_connectors12:23
Sicelothanks DocScrutinizer12:23
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ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/17/motorola_patents/12:27
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DocScrutinizer51Sicelo: wait a few minutes, will find that wiki page for you whwen back home13:28
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DocScrutinizer51Sicelo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_connector13:37
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DocScrutinizer51aka coaxial power connector13:38
Sicelothat's it. :)13:38
Sicelothanks a million13:38
DocScrutinizer51YW13:39
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Hurrianis someone trying to convert the N900 to barrel power?13:47
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SpeedEvilWhat?13:51
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Sicelo:P13:52
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DocScrutinizerI know supercow power13:53
DocScrutinizerbut barrel power...13:53
Sicelono. i just needed it for reference. i knew it was discussed here sometime ago, so i decided to ask13:53
Sicelo:)13:53
Siceloiirc it's usuallly discussed here in connection with flashing when u have almost no power remaining on your battery13:54
Sicelo~flat-bat-recover13:54
DocScrutinizerwell, a misconception13:54
DocScrutinizer~flatbatrecover13:54
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover13:54
DocScrutinizerin fact power via dedicated receptacle would be most useful for hostmode13:56
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DocScrutinizerbut actually also for flashing, as you're not supposed to draw >100mA from USB without proper ENUM which in turn would need a working system to do that ENUM13:57
DocScrutinizerunless you use fastcharger with D+/- short which obviously can't flash ;-P13:57
DocScrutinizersince flashing needs >100mA, you got that saftety check in NOLO that refuses to flash with flat battery13:58
DocScrutinizerwhich is usually a good thing, unless your root fs is totally borked to a state where no charging takes place, and also your battery is too low to make NOLO allow flashing a good new rootfs14:00
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DocScrutinizerNOLO allows charging, but allas not up to the limit of safe flashing, it tries to boot into linux prior to reaching that charge state :-S14:01
DocScrutinizerwhich in turn creates a merry charge-loop14:02
DocScrutinizeras system will deplete battery (when rootfs borked) as soon as NOLO thinks battery is strong enough to boot up linux14:03
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DocScrutinizermy suggestion been: teach NOLO to do charging up to at least 50% when plugging in power while holding 'C' key14:05
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DocScrutinizeralas NOLO is closed source :-(((14:05
Raimu-X*scratches head*14:05
DocScrutinizeryou can implement same thing in uBoot though14:06
Raimu-XWas this a design oversight or something that seemed like a good idea at the time?14:06
DocScrutinizerit seemed like a good idea and usually works for 99.99% of cases14:06
DocScrutinizerthe missing "C" option in NOLO is an oversight though14:07
DocScrutinizerthey added a similar function for N9, though via flasher tool14:08
Raimu-XAha.14:08
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DocScrutinizerN9 flasher forces charging until safe-to-flash14:09
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DocScrutinizerI gather it does that via N9 NOLO14:10
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DocScrutinizerfor N900 the most quoted advice relating maemo applies: charge your battery before flashing or messing with rootfs14:11
DocScrutinizercharge it completely14:12
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DocScrutinizerdo it immediately before your critical action14:12
DocScrutinizernot 8h before14:12
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sLumPiahi guys, howto make maemo never disconnected my xchat connect?14:14
DocScrutinizerhm?14:15
sLumPiai have remove autodisconnect or any other similar application14:15
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DocScrutinizerwell, works flawless here14:15
sLumPiabut xchat always disconnect after a couple of minutes or so, if i do nothing with the phone14:16
DocScrutinizerhmm14:16
DocScrutinizerstrange14:16
DocScrutinizercheck your ping/keep-alive time setting in xchat14:16
sLumPiawell, not xchat, but my gprs 3g connection14:17
DocScrutinizererr, you say the 3G disconnects?14:17
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sLumPiayup14:18
DocScrutinizerif so, you got some leftovers from any of your autodisconnect apps you removed14:18
DocScrutinizera plain fremantle maemo should never disconnect from 3G as long as you got sufficient signal14:18
njeiseckeHi! Does anybody know how to change the maximum size for SIP/RTP UDP frames on the lovely N9?14:19
DocScrutinizer/join #harmattan /join #n914:19
njeiseckeoop, wrong room. sorry14:19
sLumPiawhere is autodisconnect configuration file save, usually?14:19
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Siceloalso bad mobile operator may be to blame. i get disconnects too, unless i have jabber/gtalk/etc online (guess these have more frequent pings)14:23
sLumPiaDocScrutinizer, you're right. autodisconnect still not remove completely14:23
sLumPiadpkg -l | grep ^rc have autodisconnect in the list14:23
Sicelohmm, i never had that14:23
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sLumPiai will try purge it first14:24
sLumPiadoes dpkg --purge need reboot to complete the action?14:25
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Sicelono.. but who knows what autodisconnect does..14:27
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sLumPiabtw, how can i use nick autocomplete on xchat? where is that 'tab' button?14:27
Siceloi bound it to shift+backspace :)14:27
sLumPiacare to share howto do it?14:28
sLumPiai'm new with maemo/n90014:29
sLumPiaand you just need to check the setting menu **sorry for my lazy question14:31
SiceloXchat > Settings > Advanced > Keyboard Shortcuts ..14:32
DocScrutinizersLumPia: Sicelo: (autodisconnect) messes with the guts of ICD and whatnot. Probably reflash due14:33
DocScrutinizersLumPia: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/14:34
* Sicelo is relieved he never installed that :)14:34
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sLumPiareflash? howso?14:36
sLumPiais autodisconnect as bad as battery/speed patch?14:37
sLumPia:(14:37
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DocScrutinizerprobably, I don't know either14:38
DocScrutinizerat least for autodisconnect I could at least guess what it might mess up14:38
DocScrutinizerand that's a lot of files and gconf keys you can't easily restore14:39
DocScrutinizerof course you could analyze autodisconnect source and/or dpkg and see what files and gconf-keys get affected, and try to restroe just these. OR you restore a backupmenu backup done prior to installation of autodisconnect14:40
sLumPiad*mn, i dont have backup prior to autodisconnect14:41
DocScrutinizeror you simply do a normal backup, reflash, and "restore" (i.e. re-install) all your apps14:41
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DocScrutinizerI hope and guess autodisconnect garbage won't get backup'ed by normal backup app14:42
sLumPiai though autodisconnect is one of those must install apps after a reflash14:42
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DocScrutinizerautodisconnect is basically useless, except for one particular case: when your carrier thinks it's a good idea to expose your IP to the general internet without any NAT and/or firewall in between, so you see lots of *inbound* pings/requests that also make the modem crank up the transmitter and eat battery like mad. There's no other way to stop this pathological case than just disconnecting the GPRS wireless connection.14:59
DocScrutinizerfor all other - less pathological - usecases there's no benefit and sometimes even a penalty in tearing down connections15:00
DocScrutinizerooh, yeah. A borked WIFI AP can force you to set wifi power saving mode to low or none, which also is a "pathological case"15:01
sLumPiawell according to the site i read, it will save the battery when maemo disconnect the connection15:04
sLumPianow i know howto scary wrong information can be15:04
sLumPiadamn, i hate reflash15:04
DocScrutinizersLumPia: read about power consumption and conxerving at http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption (connected idle 2/3G: +5/+8mA)15:07
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sLumPiahm...i think dont need to reflash. my 3g connection didnt disconnect15:08
DocScrutinizerI.E the 3G data connection would run 150h from your battery, if the rest of system wouldn't also eat some power15:08
sLumPiasorry, i got to go idle for a couple of minutes15:09
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sLumPiatest15:21
sLumPiayes, it still connected15:21
sLumPia:)15:21
sLumPiano reflash needed15:21
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: I love them b0rked wifi aps (I have one here :/)15:22
DocScrutinizer:nod:15:23
DocScrutinizerbrand?15:23
DocScrutinizermodel?15:23
Gear_the drive in this netbook makes a lot of clicking15:23
DocScrutinizerFW-rev?15:23
DocScrutinizer:-D15:23
Gear_and sometimes a kind of beep noise15:24
DocScrutinizerhmm15:24
Gear_is it dying?15:24
DocScrutinizerpossibly15:24
DocScrutinizercheck SMART15:24
Gear_what's smart15:24
SiceloCNet's CWa-854 hasn't disappointed me with PSM and N900 :)15:24
DocScrutinizerhalley:~ # smartctl --help15:25
DocScrutinizersmartctl 5.39 2009-08-08 r2872~ [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (openSUSE RPM)15:25
merlin1991D-Link DIR-635 hw version B3 firmware version 2.33EU15:25
DocScrutinizerWAAAH, same here15:25
merlin1991^ sucky piece of shit15:25
DocScrutinizeroops nope, 61515:25
Gear_I'm running xp15:26
Gear_on this atom thing15:26
merlin1991Gear_: there is a smart tool for win15:26
merlin1991lemme check15:26
DocScrutinizernfc how to check SMART via wincrap15:26
DocScrutinizer~wiki smart15:26
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Wiktionary|smart}} {{TOC right}} Smart is another word for intelligence. 'Smart' or 'SMART' may also refer to: 'People': *Christopher Smart, English poet *Amy Smart, American actress and former fashion model *Elizabeth Smart: **Elizabeth Smart (author) (1913–1986), writer of the novel "By Grand Central Station I Sat Down and Wept" **Elizabeth Smart (activist) (born 1987), kidnapping ...15:27
merlin1991Gear_: speedfan also checks smart15:27
DocScrutinizermeh15:27
Gear_speedfan? this is an atom netbook15:27
merlin1991who cares?15:27
merlin1991you don't need the cpu features after all? :D15:27
merlin1991smart is independend of the cpu ;)15:27
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Gear_k15:28
Gear_can I check it with bios15:28
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merlin1991depends on your bios15:28
merlin1991mine has no support for that15:28
merlin1991some do15:28
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.wintotal.de/tipparchiv/?rb=36&id=75515:30
DocScrutinizerusually all you can do in BIOS is to enable SMART15:30
Gear_should I enable it15:30
DocScrutinizersure15:31
DocScrutinizer>>Freeware-Tools, die den S.M.A.R.T.-Staus auslesen können: - CrystalDiskInfo - HDDScan - HD Tune - SpeedFan - Acronis Drive Monitor - Advanced Task- & Startup-Manager - GSmartControl<<15:31
DocScrutinizerof course also a lot of HSS manuf proprietary diagnostic tools15:32
DocScrutinizers/HSS/HDD/15:33
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: of course also a lot of HDD manuf proprietary diagnostic tools15:33
DocScrutinizerGear_: TBH you should shoot the manuf of the netbook, or alternatively the dude at the shop where you purchased it, when SMART isn't already enabled15:34
Gear_yeah this is old15:35
Gear_it's supposed to be unused15:35
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Gear_also it came with two partitions and some other weirdo ones, I deleted them all and made the drive into one ntfs partition15:36
Gear_could that cause a problem15:36
DocScrutinizernt for the drive15:51
DocScrutinizerot15:51
DocScrutinizerdang15:51
DocScrutinizerNOT for the HDD drive15:51
* DocScrutinizer winds an alarm clock to remember watching result of smartctl -t long /dev/sda15:53
DocScrutinizer>>... Drive command "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately in off-line mode" successful.\n Testing has begun.\n Please wait 58 minutes for test to complete.\n Test will complete after Fri Feb 17 15:48:05 2012<<<15:54
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DocScrutinizerGear_: check for read errors / postitioning errors, also for spin-up time16:00
DocScrutinizer~swiki s.m.a.r.t.16:05
DocScrutinizer~wiki s.m.a.r.t.16:05
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T. (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{about|the hardware monitoring system|the mnemonic used in setting goals|SMART criteria}} 'S.M.A.R.T.' ('Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology'; often written as 'SMART') is a monitoring system for computer hard disk drives to detect and report on various indicators of reliability, in the hope of anticipating failures. When a failure is anticipated by S.M.A.R.T., the ...16:05
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RST38h"There is damage caused by natural disaster, intentional or unintentional misuse, acts of war, space invasions, abuse, neglect, improper maintenance, or use under abnormal conditions"16:15
RST38hASUS warranty terms16:15
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StyXman_:)16:20
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jaskaspace invasions16:28
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: I assume ASUS excludes all these from warranty16:51
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DocScrutinizerplus "normal wear and tear", of course16:52
DocScrutinizerand it's user's obligation to deliver proof there's no previous or ongoing space invasion by invisible HDD-eating monsters16:54
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Hurrianis anyone here? apparently, kernel crashes don't write anything to mtd2 anymore.23:45
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: A) of course somebody here. B) details please23:59

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