IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-01-27

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Macerpython in a nutshell...00:41
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DocScrutinizerbatterypatch? isn't  that the big hoax?00:57
DocScrutinizerthere's been this guy who did insane things like evacuate sqlite db etc, and claimed it would make your N900 300% faster and user a tenth of batery, alas nobody except him could understand *how* it would do that00:58
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DocScrutinizermaemo's ramdoubler (C)Kim Schmitz01:04
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Saviqhey everyone, just got a N9 and helped me a lot already, thanks01:11
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Saviqhave one issue, though - tried flashing a non-branded Central Europe version of PR1.1, as of course the branded one is PR1.0 and no update01:13
Saviqflasher went fine, but nothing changed in the phone?01:13
Saviqany ideas? I've cleared the phone now (via the "clear" option in settings)01:13
Saviqwaiting for it to clear now (15 minutes, btw? wth?)01:14
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mgedmindunno what the 'clear' options does01:18
Saviqmgedmin, it's supposed to clear out all user data01:18
mgedminbut flash secure erase can take 20-30 minutes with th eflasher01:18
Saviqi.e. factory state01:18
Saviqmaybe that's it01:18
mgedminincidentally there's also #9 and #harmattan01:18
Saviqit just tries to _really_ get rid of the data01:19
mgedminerr #n9, I meant01:19
Saviqthanks mgedmin, just came to the first place where I knew I would find some friendly souls01:19
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mgedminI'm not actually paying a lot of attention to these things01:20
mgedminbut #harmattan seems to be more alive than #n901:20
mgedminand people rarely discuss the N9 in #maemo (maybe they don't want to make other people envious? ;-)01:20
Saviqprobably quite some people have them here, and the N950s01:21
DocScrutinizeror maybe it's common sense that N9 has harmattan which is less of maemo than meego ever been01:22
DocScrutinizeractually I think the main reason for an own channel for harmattan is that you don't have to repeat in each post "this is about harmattan, NOT about fremantle"01:24
Saviqmight be01:26
Saviqthanks anyway, seems it upgraded fine in the end01:26
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mgedminto me harmattan still feels like maemo, although officially it's been renamed01:33
Saviqmgedmin, yeah, kind of why I came here and to maemo.org01:34
Saviqespecially now that meego is officially scratched, the maemo community seems to be the only future for harmattan01:34
mgedminto people who have to port their hildon/gtk apps it may feel different01:34
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DocScrutinizermaemo community harm's future? bwahahaha01:38
DocScrutinizerto people using xterm it surely feels different01:38
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SaviqDocScrutinizer, only, doesn't mean bright01:53
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Paliping DocScrutinizer04:41
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cehtehmorning DocScrutinizer :)09:19
RST38hmoorning all09:20
DocScrutinizerhey RST38h - what's new over there?09:20
DocScrutinizerPutin forbid smoking on the street meanwhile?09:21
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RST38hDoc: too trivial09:23
DocScrutinizerindeed, but I'm not fully awake, so bear with me lacking my usual high spirited sarcasm09:23
RST38hDoc: that is the problem with people who do not live here - whatever macabre idea of local news they can imagine is going to be too trivial09:23
RST38hThe reality is so freaking weird that you have to take drugs to approximate it09:24
RST38hLike Russian bloggers flashmobbing President Medvedev by associating his name with the tag #pitiful on Twitter and forcing him off the Net for a month09:25
jonwilWhat I want to know is how Russia got so screwed up in the first place09:26
DocScrutinizerlooong practice09:26
RST38hjonwil: Which point in time do you want to use as "the first place"?09:26
jonwilI mean the fall of commuism09:26
DocScrutinizerhehe, exactly09:26
jonwili.e. how did the fledgling democracy fail so badly09:27
RST38hjonwil: You really think that was the first place?09:27
jonwiland turn into the mess that it is now09:27
DocScrutinizeras if communism was any better09:27
RST38hnever been a democracy09:27
RST38holigarchy, yes09:27
RST38hcleptocracy, definitely09:27
DocScrutinizerseems to me Russia been a dictatorship since hundreds of years now, only camouflaged by communism (slow epic fail) and a short excursion to pretended democracy (quick messy fail)09:29
RST38hBesides, it is not necessary "bad", .RU is way better off than some other European countries. But it is weird and getting weirder by the week09:29
DocScrutinizeryeah, heard Belarus is even worse ;-)09:30
RST38hDoc: Well, it is a bit more complicated than tha09:30
RST38hDoc: For real shit, try Moldova or Georgia09:30
RST38hDoc: Outside CIS (but still in Europe), try Albania, Romania09:30
DocScrutinizerHungary closing up lately09:30
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RST38hDoc: Been to Hungary ~7 years ago, was kinda poor but decent09:31
DocScrutinizernow they go all backwards09:31
RST38hDoc: And if we include Asia, any of the eastern CIS members will do09:31
RST38hDoc: Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan09:32
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DocScrutinizerthose are less scary to us Europeans though :-)09:32
RST38hDoc: That is only because you are conditioned by 70+ years of your own propaganda09:33
RST38hactually even more, as russophobia is pretty old European habit09:34
DocScrutinizerprobably, and by the new gas pipeline thru the sea09:34
RST38hDoc: Pipeline or no pipeline, but you visit .RU and it looks more or less familiar, European even (which is not exactly true but anyway)09:36
jonwilThe biggest problem I have with Russia is the lack of people in Russia who have the power (and the will) to go after those responsible for the massive amount of computer crimes carried out from Russia09:36
RST38hDoc: I am not even suggesting that you visit tajikistan09:36
jonwillike the distribution of viruses and malware09:36
jonwiland the sending of spa09:36
RST38hjonwil: May I ask why *you* are having this problem? Does it affect *you* personally in some way?09:36
DocScrutinizerwell, there are other countries like e.g. China which are worse that Russia wrt that09:37
jonwilIt affects me because I end up on the receiving end of the SPAM email, the SCAM emails and the attempted malware attacks09:37
RST38hDoc: wrt what? Environment?09:37
DocScrutinizerspam, viri...09:37
RST38hDoc: ah, that09:37
RST38hjonwil: Well, how come it does not affect me?09:38
DocScrutinizeryou send it out? ;-P09:38
jonwilReally though a lot of what I read suggests that the Mafia has the REAL power in Russia09:38
RST38hDoc: nope!09:38
RST38hjonwil: Of course!09:38
jonwiljust like big corporations have the REAL power in the USA09:38
DocScrutinizersounds about right09:39
RST38hjonwil <-- skipped about 10 years of RU history where the Mafia people accumulated all the property and became the corporate heads09:40
DocScrutinizerand putin their boss, applying same principles to government at large09:40
RST38h"Mafia people" have been gone for a very long time09:40
RST38hThey are all either big business or government members now09:41
RST38hDoc: again, probably more complicated than that09:41
DocScrutinizersure, I'm simplifying09:41
RST38hDoc: they are "ok" with Putin, there is a consensus, but he is hardly their boss09:42
RST38hDoc: Just like american corporates are "ok" with Obama or Romney09:42
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RST38hDoc: But in US, it is way more refined, US had 100+ years to build and refine its system09:42
DocScrutinizerUSA is definitely worse for all I can say09:42
RST38hDoc: In RU it is raw and cynical, which usually puts off the Westerners09:43
RST38hDoc: They either do not understand or ignore the sad fact that their own countries are in fact governed by very similar structures09:43
jonwilI bet its the same in Russia as it is in USA, its all about the money and how big the bribes accompanying the requests from the big corporations are09:44
DocScrutinizerCokaCola took over world governance some 10 to 20 years ago09:44
RST38hWell it is not the same, but it is definitely about the same things09:44
DocScrutinizer(again simplified)09:44
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jacekowskijonwil: those attempted malware attacks are done via other infected computers09:44
RST38hDoc: Nobody governs the world, it is bullshit09:44
jacekowskijonwil: not coming from russia in most cases09:44
RST38hDoc: There are interests though09:45
RST38hDoc: And these interests have nothing to do with your or my well being09:45
DocScrutinizerRST38h: big business governs the world, almost completely09:45
RST38hMore or less, yes09:45
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DocScrutinizerwhile governments became puppets with a hand up their back09:45
jacekowskirecent ACTA stuff is a proof of that09:46
RST38hGovernments and big business are often the same people09:46
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RST38hEither at the very same time (like in Russia) or swapping roles every now and then (like in the US)09:46
jacekowskiwell, thing is, governments should be like run a big business, but their targets should be slightly different09:46
DocScrutinizer...or in Germany (you know who helped building that pipeline)09:47
RST38hDoc: EU in general09:47
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RST38hDoc: Which, ironically, makes Belarussia one of the last remaining corners where corporations still have no power09:47
jacekowskiand china09:48
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: the problem with states and gvmts is that there's no shareholder value09:48
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jacekowskiand mostly arab countries where they have general anarchy09:48
RST38hDoc: Yes, it is basically a satrapy, and the satrap has been going nuts lately, but population does not complain much09:48
DocScrutinizeron the people09:48
* DocScrutinizer suddenly occurs he has set a very strange txt into /topic09:54
DocScrutinizer"sth is out" was not exactly what I meant to say :-D09:54
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo -- N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | | Source: | Chanlog: | RECENT UPDATE: || CSSU-Stable available: get it via links in *now*!"09:55
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SiceloMohammadAG: ping11:46
Siceloi'd like to get the tsc2005.ko that u use for ubuntu on n900. the link in the thread isn't working11:48
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Siceloi'm on pk49 if that helps .. and i'm trying to install debian+using bootmenu11:51
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ShapeshifterArch on an n900 ^^
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PaliDocScrutinizer, hi12:47
PaliI published second RFC version of bq2415x_charger kernel driver, see
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Sicelokewl Shapeshifter :D:D13:08
SiceloPali: \o/13:08
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SpeedEvilPali: Interesting. (not read) I'll have a skim when I wake up.13:13
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bebnai'm propably to stupid, to use google right. How do i setup c/c++ or python on my n900, to develop gui applications on the devie itself?13:18
bebnai only find how to setup the dsdk on win/linux13:19
bebna* sdk13:19
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merlin1991Pali: that driver looks great if everything works like in your lkml posst13:24
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vi__holy christ14:10
vi__TITAN IS BACK.14:10
vi__Yes, THAT Titan.14:10
vi__Pali: Are you there bro?14:10
vi__Pali: holy shit, are you there?14:11
PaliI'm here14:11
vi__Pali: The original creator of power kernel has just made a post on TMO.14:11
vi__Pali: he is trying to sell some old n900 stuff.14:11
vi__Pali: if you were not made maintainer of KP, then now is your chance,14:12
vi__Pali: to hassle him to make you the maintainer.14:12
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Palivi__: I'm on list of kernel-power maintainers14:13
vi__Pali: Oh well.14:13
vi__I guesss it is somewhat less exciting then.14:13
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badcloudhow do i disable sshd at startup?15:12
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totalizatorhow to brows app menu with pages instead of the scrolling method? I'm sure I saw this on some YT vid15:42
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crashanddietotalizator, there's an app for that15:59
crashanddietotalizator, the app is catorise IIRC15:59
totalizatorcrashanddie: finally, thanks mate!16:01
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RST38hPolish Politicians Don Anonymous Masks To Protest EU Counterfeiting Agreement16:12
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supertrampis maemo dead?16:21
Robot101maemo is dead. long live maemo.16:22
Robot101supertramp: from Nokia, yes. they stopped developing it in 2009 when the N900 was released.16:22
Robot101supertramp: there's a community (here - - etc) who keep it alive with apps, community updates and a very festive forum on :)16:22
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supertrampnice - so you keep it up-to date and community is developing new packages?16:24
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infobotrumour has it, cssu is
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* plate procures microSD, proceeds to test NemoMobile17:07
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plateseeing as i prefer apt and gtk to rpm and qt i'll praobly stick with maemo, but hey17:07
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* Sicelo has been playing with debian as per elektranox website, using power kernel17:16
Macerdoes meego even run properly on an n900?17:21
Maceri'm sur there is SOMETHING That does not function17:21
Macerthere always is17:21
plateafaik rescueOS uses meegos' kernel17:22
Maceri haven't tried meego on my n900 in over a year17:22
Macerand i am sure it is probably still in the same state it was a year ago :)17:22
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Macerwith a changlog stating minor fixes which the end user wouldn't even notice17:22
Siceloafaik it can call, which matters to many17:23
Macermkay... that's fine if the phone app doesn't crash a thousand times or if the cams, audio, gps, slider, etc work17:26
Maceri am willing to bet the n900 version is totally screwed17:26
Macerand probably abandoned by now... as is every other nxxx17:27
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DocScrutinizer51Pali: seen the mail17:30
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DocScrutinizer51will answer tonight17:30
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DocScrutinizer51Pali: :-D17:30
Macer <- The Poor man's batmobile17:30
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Sicelocan someone please give me a clue on 2 things wrt bootmenu, (1) now it doesn't show the screen for selecting what to boot .. but it still responds to keypad, and boots selected choice. (2) how do i make BackupMenu co-exist with other items under /etc/bootmenu.d/*?17:35
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Siceloalso, (3) is there a way to make bootmenu boot a different kernel from the one used by device normally?17:37
Sicelowithout using u-boot17:37
* Sicelo hasn't reflashed his device since he bought it, and likes to keep it that way for now17:38
Maceri asked that question before and the simple answer is  no17:39
Sicelounderstood. :P17:40
platejust use u-boot17:40
Sicelothe first two questions?17:40
plateis keyboard open?17:40
platebootmenu only displays if it is afaik17:40
platetry togglign devmode in flasher17:41
platedoesnt seem like the answr, worth a shot17:41
Siceloand i know it loads because i can do keypad down and press enter and os in second line boots17:41
plateu-boot is grub, and pali has gotten it working pretty well17:42
plateer, is like grub, not IS gerub17:42
Siceloi'm aware plate.. but i'll gt there in time :)17:43
Sicelohere's another issue ..  maybe u can give direction17:43
plateyou can merge u-boot and a clasic NOLO kernel boot or sommething17:43
plateso it falls back ot normal maemo17:43
Siceloi boot debian, can ssh fine.. gui (e17) starts fine as well, i can calibrate touch-screen via ssh.. but i can't click or type anything17:44
Siceloany ideas?17:44
plateboot into rescueOS or dont start X17:47
platecheck /var/log/Xorg.0.log and /dev/input17:47
platei found all the numbersing changed around17:47
platepancake's xorg.conf was wrong..17:47
platealso grep WW Xorg.0.log and grep EE17:47
platein case the xorg-omap-input or whatever module is missing entirely17:48
Siceloi'll check again. i'm not using pacake's tarball btw17:48
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platedmesg | grep input17:48
Siceloi just find it weird that i can calibrate ts fine.. which shows it is correctly recognized and responsive :/17:48
plateand.. you can cat /dev/input/input2 or whatever17:49
plateand mes with the stylus.. to figure out which is which if everything  else fails17:49
plateyrp porblay a number off by one17:49
Sicelowow! good idea that :D17:49
platealso make sure the rx51 keymap si specified in xorg.onf17:49
plateor special keys will be wonky17:49
plateyou could even try17:50
Sicelokbd doesn't work at all for now17:50
plateX -configure17:50
plate&& x -config xorg.conf.new17:50
Sicelo:( and i'm having to mknod eah node.. as udev doesn't work17:50
plateperhaps its smart enough to setup automagically ;)17:50
platedoubt it tho, being such an oddball setup17:50
platewait what? sounds fubar17:50
platei used pancake's tarball, an d after apt-gt upgrading, x no longer worked17:50
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platenot exactly promising, trunk / sid may be broken someohw17:51
khertan < interesting !17:51
Siceloyeah, me too.. that's why i just stopped using his tarball, and debootstrapped the whole thing afresh17:51
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khertanoups ... sorry .... wrong windows17:51
platewell, i want a vanilla 3.2 kernel too17:52
Sicelosoon as i tried installing e17, i couldn't even chroot into the install, non-stop segfaults17:52
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platesince, im sure sid doesnt quite work right on 2.6.28-maemo17:52
platedue to API changes, proprietary modules having diff ABI than vanilla drivers, etc17:52
plateand i couldnt get 3.2-vanilla booting right17:52
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platedespite looking positive17:53
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platei havent tried any of those yet17:54
plateonce u-bot is working and i install SDHC i will17:54
platewhich kernel you try?17:54
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plateno shit17:55
platetheres a 'debian experimental' repo for /etc/apt/sources.list iirc17:55
plateyou proably want that17:55
platepkg-n900 channel was basically empty17:56
Siceloi'm just using kp49.. i don't want to play with uboot yet... but i see i'll have to very soon17:56
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Sicelo #pkg-n900 is very quiet, lol, but sebastian is readily available via jabber .. and it's himm and Pali who are working on
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plateuboot doesnt bite18:04
platen900 is basically unbrickable18:04
platejust reflash back to Maemo if all else fails ;018:04
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Sicelomy issue is internet bandwidth. i want to avoid reflash as far as possible (yet_18:05
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Sicelobecause i don't want to re-download my installed packages.. although i suppose with BackupMenu i could be safe :/18:16
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Paliu-boot is flashing into kernel area, so if something happends, you need to reflash only kernel image18:18
Palirootfs will not be touched18:18
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Sicelohmmm that's better18:19
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PaliDocScrutinizer, new version of bq2415x_charger which support boost mode is here:
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DocScrutinizer51ok, thanks19:23
DocScrutinizer51still at work, fixing some patch19:23
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plateelop lol20:33
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platehas a post-mortem on nokia been written yet20:33
platelike how microsoft took over their board and appointed him20:34
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RST38hfake-n9 is updating!20:36
RST38h(and btw, Zune "software" sucks about the same as Ovi Suite20:37
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platefake chinese N9s that run meego/mer/debian??20:37
Robot101he means a lumia I guess :P20:38
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ShadowJKwhy is that a fake-n9, it's completely different?20:40
Robot101the one with the same industrial design?20:41
ShadowJKall phones look the same these days?20:41
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fizzieNot *that* same.20:42
ShadowJKit's just a plastic shell :P20:42
RST38hShadowJK: Looks the same, but is not20:42
ShadowJKThat has actually been one of my annoyances with phones, why they have to change the outsidw all the time so you have to relearn new keyboards each time :/20:43
ShadowJKand get new holders, cases, etc20:43
ShadowJKgimme N900 with new internals :(20:43
RST38hZune Suite thingie has no "minimize" or "close" buttons. No titlebar to move it by either20:43
ShadowJKi bet it doesn't work in wine :P20:44
platedid you buy one of these?20:45
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ShadowJKTheregister's comment about elop saying sales staff are idiots is kinda true. I remember when i went to hunt down a second N900 for self, all the stores had broken N900s on display :P20:48
RST38hShadowJK: No idea, I am practical and have got Win7 here20:48
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RST38hShadowJK: Elop is the perfect example of
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil; boot looping, lock code activateds so all you ould see was phone asking for code20:50
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ShadowJKRST38h; if it's anything like nokia/ovi suite, you'd want to image the hd first before using, and then restore after use20:54
ShadowJKfastest way to get pc performance back :)20:54
RST38hShadowJK: I think this one is more insidious but also less intrusive20:55
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RST38hShadowJK: goes narrower, but deeper into the os20:55
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plateso nemo install is painless, but wifi configuration stuff is borked, catch22 with anything further like pkg manager. doesnt appear to be gps/SIP/fm support in the calling UI or Maps (or maybe maps needs network for tiles)23:04
platemaep is the best. but i guess it's just a slight tweak of osm-gps-map or so. so thats hould be good once Debian is working..23:05
Sicelohmm :)23:05
platedmesg has weird errors failing to mount nemo's ext3 rootfs23:06
plateon maemo23:06
plateand it has mkfs.ext4 but no ext4 module, curious23:06
plateso im mkfs.ext3 with maemo's tools to debootstrap..23:06
platekeeping nemo's kernel around, that should be useful, on FAT 3rd partition for u-boot23:06
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platethe QT stuff does feel just a slight bit smoother than GTK/Hildon stuff on maemo.. (re ) shame it got Elop'd23:07
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Sicelonemo uses which kernel?23:08
Sicelonice.. udev should work there, right?23:08
platedont see why not23:08
platenemo mostly worked its just if im going to spend time tweaking23:09
plateid proably rather make Arch Linux work nice23:09
plateor Debain.. or Gentoo. rather than yet another dsitribution23:09
platewonder how hard haxxing nemo's .xinitrc to launch say, Illume+e17 would be , since its got a functional x server etc23:09
plateproably more modern than Maemo..23:10
wmarone_hop over into #mer and look into building the necessary packages and an image23:10
plateafaik nemo is mer, or something23:10
wmarone_nemo uses mer, yes23:10
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plateim confused by all the branding23:10
platenemo, mer, meego. maemo.. tizen.. moblin23:10
wmarone_so you can start with the N900 adaptation and changing the packages/post-install scripts23:10
platenemo is 'mer + meegoUX handset UI' or something23:11
plateso i guess yeah, mer would support other stuff too23:11
plateor allow customization23:11
wmarone_mer has no GUI23:11
wmarone_it's entirely geared around adopters to bring their own GUI23:11
wmarone_so yeah, smoku does hildon+gtk3, vgrade does PA for a bunch of stuff, you could do Illume+e1723:12
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