IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-01-26

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robbiethe1stHey, what files control the location of files on the desktop?04:00
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Estel_Hi there.10:11
Estel_Does anyone know, how I could bind *left* alt somewhere on N900's hardware keyboard?10:12
Estel_i.e. which symbol to use, when defining alt in rx-51?10:12
* Estel_ meant code, not symbol. 'lalt' doesn't seem to work10:12
DocScrutinizermeta?10:13
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Estel_? what meta?10:17
* Estel_ meant this fot ^ DocScrutinizer answer10:18
Estel_I'm trying to achieve alt by rx-51 editing or .xbindkeysrc for "ages". Of course, rx-51 method would be preferred, but any will do.10:19
Estel_I don't quite get what You mean by 'meta'.10:19
DocScrutinizernm10:21
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CokeIs it there a maemo port available for the N9?12:41
X-FadeEhm, it is kinda running maemo? :)12:42
CokeX-Fade: "kinda" doesn't help me.12:42
LaoLang_coolNeed a vim73 port to maemo~12:43
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X-FadeCoke: Well what do you need?12:43
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CokeX-Fade: rotation zoom, flash, ability to uninstall skype, twitter and facebook apps, ability to use the full system without regitering accounts, etc.12:44
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X-FadeCoke: Well the only thing you don't have is flash.12:44
CokeX-Fade: no, all the other things I mentioned are also missing.12:45
X-FadeCoke: You can remove the icons, and these services don't run by default.12:45
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X-FadeSo I don't know what you want more?12:45
CokeX-Fade: I wrote a list just 2 minutes ago12:46
X-FadeWhatever :)12:46
CokeX-Fade: in order to remove the icons I have to get into developer mode.12:47
X-FadeSo?12:47
CokeI can't do that on my phone for some unknown reason.12:48
X-FadeWell, that is a whole other problem then.12:48
CokeX-Fade: even so, it says a lot about the design of a system when skype and twitter are considered core packages.12:48
CokeMaemo 5 is just better.12:48
X-FadeThey aren't core in a sense that they get used if you don't enable the accounts.12:49
CokeX-Fade: they are core.12:50
Cokecan't remove the packages.12:50
X-FadeBut anyway, you should be able to enable developer mode.12:50
Cokeit is quite insane.12:50
X-FadeI wonder why you'd want to remove them though?12:50
CokeIt says "installation interrupted"12:51
X-FadeWhich PR?12:51
CokeX-Fade: because I don't use them and would like to free up space and not be bothered having unused icons take up desktop space12:52
CokeX-Fade: PR?12:52
X-FadeRelease12:52
Cokei dunno, the one that came with the phone12:52
Cokedefault.12:53
X-FadeThat doesn't tell me anything :)12:53
CokeIn any case, the big question is WHY I'm not allowed to remove them. Why and who would design the package deps to make core depend on twitter?12:53
X-Fadesettings -> device should tell you12:53
Cokewhere?12:53
X-FadeIt is just a way of distributing a fixed set of packages, so you know that everything which gets compiled against your sdk actually is available.12:54
Cokeits just another menu.12:54
CokeX-Fade: I don't think things like twitter should be part of a "core API"12:54
X-FadeCoke: Seeting->about product12:54
Cokeif it is, it should be in the form of libraries that are compact and invisible12:54
X-Fade*settings12:54
X-FadeWhat do you need rootfs space for anyway :)12:55
Cokemeego 1.2 harmattan12:55
X-Fadeversion?12:55
CokeX-Fade: it's just really poor design to make high level apps that should be optional part of the core12:55
Coke10.2011.34-1.339.01.2_PR_33912:55
X-FadeCoke: Upgrade to PR1.112:55
Cokewhat version do I have now?12:56
Coke339?12:56
X-FadeYou are running an ancient version12:56
X-FadePR1.012:56
Cokehow can you tell?12:56
X-FadeThe 10 at the beginning12:56
X-Fadehttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/23/harmattan-version-numbering-explained12:56
CokeYes, why use the actual version string, like PR1.0, when you can obfuscate.12:57
X-FadeIt also shows you the PR there.12:57
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CokeX-Fade: I've never seen a package or version in any linux distribution that need version numbering explained. It's just the number and simetimes a build and/or date.'12:58
Cokeupdating now12:58
Cokeas for my original question, if it's possible to get Maemo on the N9, I'd still rather have that work.13:00
X-FadeIt is maemo 6.13:00
X-FadeYou want maemo 5 back I guess?13:00
CokeOfcourse, it's better.13:00
X-FadeThen no, not possible.13:00
CokeMaemo 6 is MeeGo?13:01
keriothe n9 runs a weird version of maemo6 with a meego ui13:01
X-FadeN9 just runs Maemo 5 evolved, so let's call it Maemo 6 :)13:01
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CokeX-Fade: devolved13:02
X-FadeMarketing might say something different however :D13:02
CokeIt has less features and is less flexible than maemo 513:02
kerioi wonder if killing the nokia internet tabled was microsoft's plan all along or if it was just a side bonus13:02
kerio*tablet13:02
CokeX-Fade: the rotation zoom is way way superior to the two finger pinch13:03
CokeX-Fade: I also liked the fact that it was just a deb system on my phone13:03
Cokepackage repos had a good dependency design, it certainly wasnt depending on Twitter13:03
keriowell, harmattan still has apt, doesn't it?13:03
X-FadeCoke: Yeah, well I just use one fixed finger on the screen and then one to move and it zooms.13:03
kerioeither that or rpm13:03
CokeX-Fade: rotation is superior, period13:04
X-FadeCoke: It still uses deb.13:04
kerioCoke: buttons are superior13:04
kerioand you can do whatever you want with apt, even crappy dependencies13:04
kerioor solving sokoban13:04
CokeThe rotation zoom was the one thing that made iphone users secretly wish they could change one thing with their phone13:04
kerioCoke: then why did i disable it? :o13:04
Cokeno matter how much ppl claim "you can still do a pinch with one hand" it is not as ergonomic and intuitive as the rotation13:05
keriodoubletap to zoom is superior, and failing that is buttons13:05
X-FadeI just double tap on the paragraph to be honest.13:05
X-FadeIt then autozooms.13:05
kerioand if you're using the n900 with one hand, you're doing it wrong13:05
CokeX-Fade: workarounds workarounds.13:05
X-FadeCoke: Nah, because that is a lot faster.13:05
kerioCoke: no, seriously, spiral to zoom is horrible13:05
Cokekerio: for most use cases I am13:05
Cokekerio: no, seriously, it's awesome13:05
keriowell then clearly it's not as one-sided as you think13:05
Cokekerio: well, I know one thing for certain, two finger pinch is worse13:06
X-FadeAnyway, time to do some real work, later.13:06
kerioCoke: that's why you use *buttons*13:06
Cokehaving to use only one finger is superior to having to use two13:06
kerioor doubletapping13:06
kerioi wouldn't know about that, i use the keyboard13:06
Cokekerio: but you dont need double tap or buttons if you have rotation13:06
kerioCoke: except that rotation fucks up my pages when i scroll them13:07
Cokekerio: that's no fault of the rotation, it's a software problem13:07
Cokethe concept of the rotation is still good13:07
keriohow do you distinguish a scroll in a circular way from a zooming?13:07
Cokekerio: as of late my N900 is doing all sorts of crazy stuff, the screen in particular seems to be failing13:07
Cokekerio: what do you scroll circular?13:07
kerioCoke: mine is falling apart a bit :(13:07
kerioit happened to me more than once13:07
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Cokekerio: but I agree that the keyboard is the best feature of any phone13:08
kerioCoke: the thing is that even under warranty, nokia won't repair it13:08
keriothey just replace it with a worse phone that costs more13:08
CokeN9, worse camera, worse battery life, no keyboard and not as good OS13:08
kerioso you have to sell that and buy another new n90013:08
Cokekerio: I know13:08
Cokethis is why I own an N913:08
kerioi can't stand not having a physical keyboard13:08
CokeI didn't even read all the reviews that said "significantly worse than it's predecessor"13:08
kerioso i'll just buy a milestone 4 once it's out in europe13:08
Cokekerio: what's that?13:08
keriothe US' droid 413:09
keriomotorola13:09
kerioandroid ._.13:09
Cokemeh, i want a proper Linux so I can run my Python applications on my phone13:09
kerioCoke: a dumbphone + an openpandora13:09
Cokekerio: I've been looking at openmoko13:09
kerioopenmoko is too old for any meaningful thing13:09
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Cokekerio: the only thing I like about the N9 is the color and form factor. I wouldn't mind running pandora on it13:10
kerioCoke: i meant the physical openpandora :)13:11
Cokekerio: all these geek phones have terrible form factors13:11
keriowell it's good, because the openpandora is not a phone :D13:11
kerioand the droid 4 is basically a new razr with a keyboard13:11
Cokekerio: I would have bought pandora if it had a sim card holder13:11
keriocomplain to DocScrutinizer for that13:11
Cokethe workaround was to "use my n900 as a theather"13:11
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kerioDocScrutinizer: ;)13:11
CokeI would have easily paid $1000 for openpandora if it had 3G capability13:12
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kerioisn't the omap3530 a bit old nowadays?13:13
CokeI don't care about how old something is. The N900 is old, it's still the best phone on the market.13:13
CokeAnd Maemo 5 is still the best phone OS.13:13
kerioi'm not so convinced about that13:13
keriospecs *do* matter13:13
g0phettehow is it the best13:14
g0phettethe best one would be a phone that runs debian/arch/gentoo out of the box13:14
LaoLang_coolHow about N950?13:14
Cokeg0phette: the best that exists13:14
CokeLaoLang_cool: what is that?13:14
g0phettewithout some hodpodge of massively out of date half-proprietary forks of dbus/ofono stuff13:14
kerioLaoLang_cool: go ahead, try to buy one13:14
LaoLang_coolkerio: ;p13:14
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Cokeoh, N950, no keyboard and no maemo 513:14
kerioCoke: no, keyboard13:15
kerio:)13:15
CokeDoes it have?13:15
LaoLang_coolCoke: I heard that it's a n9 with a keyboard, only for developer13:15
g0phetten9009's kbd is popping bubblewrap compared to iphone's onscreen ease imo13:15
g0phetteid happly get rid of it13:15
CokeOh. that new OS is still shit tho.13:15
keriog0phette: popping bubblewrap is *good*13:15
kerio:313:15
CokeAll I want is a terminal per default, no twitter, no facebook and no skype13:15
g0phettetheres always bluetooth/usb kbds for srs typing13:15
keriog0phette: FOAD please13:15
g0phetteFOAD?13:16
kerioFuck Off And Die13:16
g0phetteprovide a dictionary if youre going to suggest suff13:16
Cokeg0phette: I don't know why the phone OS cant just be like any linux dist.13:16
keriobut in a nicer way13:16
kerio:)13:16
g0phettebecause big companies and the MBAs at them dont think like us13:16
Cokeg0phette: all they have to do is make a good WM, no need to fork everything13:16
g0phettethey saw mobile as a clean slate to tightly couple service stacks and all sorts of new ass-rape13:16
Cokeg0phette: agreed. I like you.13:16
Cokeyou put things down so elegantly13:17
CokeI would describe apple as "ass-rape" and to me, the N9 is Nokia's way of trying to immitate iphone.13:17
Cokealso, I'm pretty sure it's the same old packaging on the N9 as it was on the N900. Still takes way too long to install and upgrade packages.13:18
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Coke(it was the only downside w maemo 5, the packaging took forever)13:19
keriowell apt is not exactly an example of speed13:19
burrohrm, n900's flash is slow13:19
burroapt-get is insanely fast on a JB'd ipad13:19
burroit feels like desktop speeds13:19
burrosad as it is :/13:19
Cokeactually, apt is slow compared to other packaging ive tried13:19
burroi prefer PAludis13:19
burroor pacman..13:19
burroactually, theres 'packer', which is faster than yaourt & pacman13:20
Cokeyast and apt are the slowest I've tried. pacman is cool13:20
Cokeit has a bit of an upstart time scanning local packages, but once thats done its fast13:20
burrokerio: i hit wrong keys a ton on iphone, but never on n90013:21
burroi was sorta joking abotu HW kbd. id take anything that ran Debian/Mer anymore13:21
CokeI was so looking forward to the four row qwerty keyboard13:21
CokeI outtype anyone using two thumbs on the 3-row, so I can only imgagine how fast i would type on the 4 row13:21
burrohow many N950s do you think are made, 10,000 ?13:21
burroit seems like 1000 would  be a bare minimum13:22
burroand only 250-300 are accounted for?13:22
keriothey're still not going to sell them13:22
keriothey want you to buy w7 phones13:22
burroits in MSFT's contract you cant do open bootloaders with W7 phones13:22
burroso we can forget about harmattan on any of them etc13:22
Cokeburro: I think you can pretty much forget about Nokia altogether13:23
burroyep13:23
CokeNokia had a chance to get into the niche geek market, but htey blew it13:23
burroi have more hope for a 5" ARchos G9 series and Mer13:23
burrothere was a 4.3" archos at one point, hopefully its updated13:23
CokeInstead they are trying to immitate Apple, which will fail because anybody who thinks they want an iPhone really only wants an iPhone, not a Nokia with win.13:23
burroalready due to T-mo caps i ended up goin 4G mifi and VOIP13:23
burroand normal users want "Apps"13:24
burrodont even have hope for Tizen, since it would need an Android emulator13:24
burroand why not just run normal android tat that point13:24
burrowell, i have hope that perhaps Tizen's kernel could run non-HTML5 stuff like GTK/QT apps from OpenMoko/Maemo13:25
CokeLooks like the N950 was replaced by the N9 as a product.13:26
burron9 was 500 on amazon last i checked, originally 699ish13:26
burromaybe theyll blow out for 1/2 that soon13:27
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burrohow bad is Harmattan? its still Xorg or QT right to framebuff?13:27
Cokeburro: I don't know about it's graphical backend, but Harmattan is shit.13:27
Cokeburro: if I could get a terminal up I could tell you. However, the Maemo 5 window system is much better.13:30
petteriharmattan is best :)13:30
petteriloving my n913:30
burroim sick of unable to upgrade stuff on maemo to debian-sid levels of freshness13:30
burrodue to the birdsnest-interconectedness of dbus/pulse stuff and proprietary bits13:30
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burroi am sure n9 would be the same story, no thanks13:31
Cokeburro: yeah, I'd like to see a clean dist used on the phoens.13:31
CokeWhen you start your phone the first time you only get a blank X11 (or wayland) desktop, nothing else13:31
burroits simple , donate your drivers to vanilla linux. use matchbox or illume, dont push 'differentiation'13:31
burroeveyrone wants to 'differentiate'13:32
burrohow about.. conform.. to the trunk13:32
petteriheheh, there would be like you two using that kind of phone13:32
petteriand eventually you would get and support IRC channell full of whiners anyway13:32
Cokethere's a market for geek stuff.13:33
Cokeand yes, the market for iphone-immitations is bigger, but iphone already exists.13:33
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petteriyes, i am geek, using N9 and don't have iphone :)13:34
Cokepetteri: I can't even get a terminal on my N913:34
petteriCoke: i got on mine, was not really that hard13:35
Cokepetteri: you need developer mode to get it and unfortunately my phone does not allow me to use developer mode for some unknown reason13:35
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petteriCoke: maybe you should ask for replacement13:36
Cokeand because the N9 is designed for idiots, the error message is simply "installation interrupted". no need to tell why, the normal user wouldnt use developer mode anyway13:36
Cokepetteri: replaced with what?13:36
kerioCoke: reflash and try again13:36
petteriCoke: with working one13:36
keriopetteri: a working one involves maemo 5 and a physical keyboard13:36
burroheh13:36
Cokeyes indeed13:36
Cokebut even the few few functions that the N9 has (compared to N900) don't work properly13:37
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petterijust suggested that you should return if you have faulty one13:38
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Cokepetteri: I'm going to call them as soon as lunch is over13:58
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cehtehblubb15:32
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badcloudanyone know how to import multiple recipes from website into pyrecipe?15:40
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badcloudhas anyone here used pyrecipe? I'm trying to import multiple recipes16:35
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edheldilbadcloud:  it uses sqlite database, so I think you could always write a simple import script16:58
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jonwilhi17:12
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badcloudedheldil: thanks17:23
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jonwildamn this QT code is hard to understand17:28
jonwilall this signals and slots and transitions and stuff17:30
jonwilI wonder how relevant the QT book sitting on my bookshelf is to all this...17:30
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badcloudedheldil: you don't happen to know any mastercook/mealmaster/krecipe file archives, do you?17:52
edheldilnope, sorry17:53
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RST38hNorth Korea is holding a 100-day-long "mourning period" for the late madman Kim Jong-il. Part of the festivities include a cell phone moratorium, transgressors against which "will be branded as 'war criminals' and punished accordingly," The Telegraph reports.19:01
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edheldilRST38h:  In North Korea, cellphone brands you!19:28
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dreamerhi all, I'm trying to install skype on my n900. I couldn't find it in the app-manager, but with apt-cache I see skype-installer. Trying to install this I get: E: Handler silently failed19:32
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jonneisn't skype installed by default?19:32
befordbut skype should be preinstalled19:33
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dreamerI thought so as well, but I don't see it in the application menu19:33
dreamerbtw, I sent my n900 back to nokia once for a hardware issue and they reflashed it. maybe they flashed a version without skype?19:35
edheldildreamer:  you don't see it in menu, it launches when you call skype contact, for example19:37
Raimu-XAFAIK Skype isn't an application on n900, it's a protocol in the instant messaging app.19:37
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dreamerhmmm19:37
dreamerhow can I log in to skype then?19:38
dreameror add a contact?19:38
edheldilAd an IM account19:38
edheldilin config19:38
Raimu-Xdreamer: Add a Skype IM account through the ... yes, the spanner-iconed settings menu.19:38
edheldilthen you can add skype names for your contacts as well19:38
jonneskype-installer is installed on mine, fwiw19:38
jonneapt-cache search skype19:39
jonnedo you see it?19:39
dreamerah, I see it now :)19:39
dreamerjonne: I don't think it's installed19:39
dreamerI don't know19:39
dreamerbut I see skype as a service in the settinngs19:39
jonneis it listed in IM accounts and stuff?19:39
jonneyeah, that's what you need19:39
jonneskype isn't a seperate app on the n900, it's fully integrated with everything else19:40
jonnepretty sweet, actually19:40
jonnei wish they did the same thing on desktop Linux, instead of having their full app19:41
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Raimu-XIs it as bad on desktop Linux as it is on Windows?19:42
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jonnei don't have a webcam so i haven't used it a lot, but it's got its own tray icon and stuff19:42
jonneand it's pretty ugly19:42
dreamerI should put my skype password in my keepass, I never use it and always forget -_-19:42
jonnethere's ways to make a bridge between skype en empathy on the desktop too, but i never looked into it19:43
jonnei just use the n900 for skyping19:43
jonnei'm waiting for confirmation that the N9 will get skype video calling before i buy it19:44
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dreamerhmmm, so how do I make a video call?19:47
jonneopen the contacts app19:47
jonneyour skype contacts should be in there19:47
dreamerok, check19:48
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jonneprotip: you can sort your contacts by availability, and it doubles as a buddy list19:48
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dreamerjonne: check, thnx :)19:49
dreamerno idea if the video chat will work ..19:50
jonneit works19:50
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dreamerwell, it doesn't check with the test call ;)19:50
jonnebut the front camera is pretty shitty19:50
dreameruhuh19:50
dreamerwell, a friend is going to call tonight, and I think he has some mail and stuff .. I think the screen will be a tad too small ;)19:50
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jonneskype can also do international calls for less money19:52
jonnebuy skype credits, and you can call regular numbers over skype19:53
dreamerI know what skype is19:53
jonnei mean skype on maemo19:53
jonnesupports it too19:53
dreamerwell, I'm guessing it's the exact same thing19:53
dreamerjust differently intergrated19:53
dreamerit's pretty nice I must say. although a separate contact list would've been better19:53
jonnesome stuff isn't supported, like conference alling19:54
jonne*calling19:54
dreamerok19:54
dreamerthat's a little unfortunate19:54
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dreamerjonne: can you only sign uit in the settings?19:58
jonnenot sure what android and iOS' implementations suppor19:58
jonneyeah19:59
jonnenot really practical if you want to sign out often, i just leave all my IM stuff on19:59
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Estel_Hi Maemo21:50
Estel_Does anyone know, how to map *left* alt to some button in N900'*s hardware keyboard?21:50
Estel_I'll be satisfied with either rx-51 editing or .xbindkeysrc, but of course, rx-51 is preferred21:51
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Estel_I have no idea where to check syntax of left alt accepted in rx-51 mapping file21:51
Estel_that would not result in errors after setxkbmap *21:52
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* guap31 estoy en www.sex-all.com [ HOla quieres verme www.sex-all.com ] [1hr 4mins]22:03
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* guap31 estoy en www.sex-all.com [ HOla quieres verme www.sex-all.com ] [1hr 12mins]22:11
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Raimu-XOh, for the love of f*#@22:13
Macerer22:14
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* guap31 estoy en www.sex-all.com [ HOla quieres verme www.sex-all.com ] [1hr 20mins]22:19
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x29awonna kick him?22:21
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* guap31 estoy en www.sex-all.com [ HOla quieres verme www.sex-all.com ] [1hr 28mins]22:27
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NIN102sigh, kick this guy22:30
vi__who, me?22:30
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NIN102no.22:31
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vi__is speedpatch any good?22:33
vi__i heard it can make more batteries22:33
jonnei installed it, along with batterypatch22:33
jonnedon't notice a huge difference, tbh22:33
jonneYMMV with those things22:34
Raimu-X*snort*22:38
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eichiI'm searching for a headset, which works good with n900 maemo523:24
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vi__na701 works quite well23:26
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jacekowskieither original n900 headset if you want buttons to work23:27
jacekowskior any other headset23:27
gulybh-101 just works23:28
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* NIN101 doesn't23:29
NIN101(bad joke)23:29
guly:)23:31
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