IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-01-13

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DocScrutinizer	Minos: check swappolube and the tmo thread(s) about it - maybe a wrapper around cp command may help, when it just temporarily disables swapping (or reduces swappiness) prior to invocation of real cp binary, and restores all /proc and /sys tweaks to 'normal' after cp finished	00:01
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DocScrutinizer	Minos: I've seen N900 freeze completely on trying to cp a few GB of data between uSD and eMMC	00:02
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Estel_	DocScrutinizer, Minos. Today I accidentaly turned on internal swap that I havent been using for months, then, started my usual combo of applications. Chromium, LibreOffice, and something else. Device immediately started to freeze, regaining control only once for every 15-30seconds or so	00:15
Estel_	then I realized, that eMMC swap was turned out together with uSD swap	00:15
Estel_	disabling eMMC swap cleared issues almost instantly (well, swap takes a while to get disabled)	00:15
Estel_	using swap on eMMC is really a bad idea under high I/O from other eMMC partitions	00:16
DocScrutinizer	Estel_: are YOU responsible for messing with infobot's onjoin?	00:17
Estel_	with swap on uSD and correct swapiness settings, cp of many gigabites archive, or extracting ED .lzma archive (2GB) or apt-get dist-upgrade from ED don't even "scratch" device responsivness	00:17
Estel_	wtf?	00:17
DocScrutinizer	(you might deduce from the fact I have to ask at all, as well as the way I ask, that I'm not amused)	00:17
Estel_	for the good start, I'm going to admit that I'm responsible for everything You may want from me. now, what happened?	00:18
poro	i had to mkdir /home/tmp and bindmount /tmp so rubygems wouldnt run out of memory compiling	00:18
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, seriously, I've not touched anything	00:18
DocScrutinizer	uhuh	00:18
Estel_	AFAICT	00:18
poro	tmpfs 1024 72 952 7% /tmp a megabyte?	00:18
DocScrutinizer	[2012-01-12 09:43:54] <infobot> Hi there, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1148886&postcount=668. Is the proposition of sponsoring server for few months still actual?	00:19
Estel_	hey, I used plain onjoin for You	00:19
Estel_	like You taught me	00:19
Estel_	but only once	00:19
Estel_	is it messing?	00:19
DocScrutinizer	I teach you a quite different lesson in a minute	00:19
DocScrutinizer	:-(	00:20
Estel_	fine, but first tell me what actually happened	00:20
Estel_	i.e. what's the issue	00:20
DocScrutinizer	[2012-01-12 09:43:54] <infobot> Hi there, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1148886&postcount=668. Is the proposition of sponsoring server for few months still actual?	00:20
DocScrutinizer	IS THE ISSUE	00:20
DocScrutinizer	wtf shall I think about that crap?	00:20
Estel_	lol, ven if it's not amusing. It's spamming You about that?	00:21
ShadowJK	is that onjoin for everyone?	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	is that to me? is that from you? why can't you simply post it directly, when I'm online 24/7 anyway??	00:21
Estel_	hm, sorry for that - I did it exactly as per instructions You linked me to	00:21
Estel_	I've posted it, but You were not online ATM	00:21
Estel_	no, only for DocScrutinizer	00:21
Estel_	only he sees it	00:21
DocScrutinizer	BS, I'm ALWAYS online	00:21
Estel_	actually, once I joked about voicemail on IRC	00:21
* ShadowJK 'd used memoserv :P		00:22
DocScrutinizer	BS everybody sees it	00:22
Estel_	no, You were not when I used onjoin	00:22
Estel_	well, DocScrutinizer once told me about onjoin command and how to use it	00:22
Estel_	actually, he used onjoin to tell me about it	00:22
DocScrutinizer	obviously not	00:22
Estel_	then I reported back, that it's talking to me on every join	00:22
Estel_	but without response. Eventually, it stopped	00:23
Estel_	so I though issue is fixed	00:23
DocScrutinizer	and then you thought it's a good idea to do same thing to me???	00:23
Estel_	and used it when DocScrutinizer was offline, no idea if by timeout or what. Not in user list :P	00:23
DocScrutinizer	while I at very least started message with "estel_: ..."	00:23
Estel_	well, have used it few times already, and no one complained	00:23
Estel_	I started it with DocScrutinizer	00:24
Estel_	it seems that bot interpreted it as second receiver	00:24
DocScrutinizer	I'm exactly 90s offline every 24h	00:24
Estel_	thus double message	00:24
Estel_	well, luck or lack of, depending on point of view. It wasn't ny goal to cause problems.	00:24
DocScrutinizer	Estel_: nonsense	00:24
DocScrutinizer	there'	00:24
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Estel_	anyway, what's the issue, no way to turn it off?	00:25
Estel_	~die	00:25
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		00:25
DocScrutinizer	s only ONE onjoin for each nick, so you nuked any previous onjoun without even checking	00:25
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Estel_	well, any way to check other's people onjoins?	00:26
DocScrutinizer	and there's NO WAY to list onjoin records, not even for one nick, for the different channels	00:26
DocScrutinizer	as there's a _default onjoin for every nick, plus one chan specific one for each chan the nick joins	00:27
DocScrutinizer	no	00:27
Estel_	well, actually, it was You who told me to use it ;)	00:27
Estel_	I haven't messed with default onjoin	00:27
DocScrutinizer	I never told you to use it	00:27
Estel_	what You see is only for Your eyes, as in Bond	00:27
DocScrutinizer	I told you it existst	00:27
Estel_	jokes aside, TBH i still don't get what's the issue. it spams You every 2 seconds, or what?	00:28
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DocScrutinizer	I'm simply disabling onjoin for this and a number of other chan, I think	00:28
Estel_	take Your time, have fun	00:28
DocScrutinizer	it's a too powerful cmd for users messing with it indiscriminately	00:28
Estel_	care to tell us what's exactly this issue?	00:29
DocScrutinizer	Estel_: It spams the CHANNEL every day, and I don't even know it's caused by me	00:29
DocScrutinizer	and the worst thing is YOU don't see all those problems	00:29
Estel_	ok, got it. it spams it once a day when You join.	00:29
DocScrutinizer	how would I tell?	00:30
Estel_	actually, spams for one liner isn't bst word. Now, how to disable it?	00:30
Estel_	erm	00:30
DocScrutinizer	my client joins after 90s when my DSL reconnects	00:30
Estel_	wasn't infobot talking like	00:30
DocScrutinizer	I'm not even at home at that time	00:30
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, Estel_ wasn't You to know:	00:30
Estel_	want*	00:30
Estel_	infobot: DocScrutinizer, Estel_ want You to know: <blabla>	00:31
Estel_	well, at least it was the case when You used it @ me. Anyway, I'm off, good night ladies and gentlemans	00:32
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DocScrutinizer	I got no fsckng clue how and what onjoin command got activated for me, and I don't know who activeated it, and the one who did has no clue if there's been an older more important onjoin already set that gets reset by him	00:33
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DocScrutinizer	coool shit, he's leaving me with this fucking onjoin, and I have to clean all possible alternatives now	00:34
Estel_	Before I go - ShadowJK, maybe You know what's the sane current limit for charging internals of N900, notbattery?	00:34
Estel_	fuck shit, I'm still here, so I can help if it's possible	00:34
DocScrutinizer	before you go, you DAMN REMOVE that onjoin you set	00:34
DocScrutinizer	!	00:34
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Estel_	just stop shouting around and tell me what to do	00:34
Estel_	ok	00:34
Estel_	any command?	00:34
Estel_	I asked for a command to remove it for past 10 minutes	00:35
Estel_	just concluded that You're on berserker mode and wouldn't tell me anyway ;)	00:35
ShadowJK	I don't know, but at 1250 I thought it heated up more than you'd expect from just interpolating 1250/950	00:35
DocScrutinizer	I don't know any command as I don't know the command you used to install it - got it now?	00:35
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DocScrutinizer	~+help onjoin	00:36
infobot	Desc: get/set OnJoin message (needs chan option +OnJoin)	00:36
infobot	Usage: onjoin [#chan\|_default] [-]<nick> [message]	00:36
infobot	Example: onjoin infobot Hey! It's another infobot!	00:36
Estel_	ShadowJK, thanks. Basically the concept is that using dual-cell battery current is divided by two for each cell	00:36
Estel_	so, it should be safe theoretically, to charge with 1.5 A	00:36
Estel_	if chip etc won't get fried	00:36
Estel_	(750mA per cell in ,parrallel cell setup)	00:36
DocScrutinizer	onjoin [#chan\|_default] -DocScrutinizer[51]	00:37
ShadowJK	Well it doesn't go higher than 1250, and that's what I'm trying to say, that when I increased the current beyond what bme uses, it heated up more than I would have expected	00:37
Estel_	because battery or chip itself? the latter I asume?	00:37
ShadowJK	(not the battery, the internals)	00:37
Estel_	yea	00:37
ShadowJK	I was using a 2400mAh battery at that time	00:37
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Estel_	so anyway no point in risking for 1250-950= 300mA	00:38
DocScrutinizer	~+help botmail	00:38
infobot	Desc: Send someone botmail	00:38
infobot	Usage: botmail {for <who>[:] <message>}\|stats\|check\|read	00:38
infobot	Example: botmail for infobot: you rock!	00:38
infobot	Example: botmail stats	00:38
infobot	Example: botmail check	00:38
infobot	Example: botmail read	00:38
Estel_	thanks ShadowJK!	00:39
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, I just did	00:39
ShadowJK	After I noticed the heating up, I made my script drop to 550mA when temperature rose above 50C	00:39
DocScrutinizer	even that sucks	00:39
poro	make it explode!!	00:39
ShadowJK	Eventually I just settled for charging at 950 without temperature throttle	00:39
Estel_	I wonder what part gets hot so fast	00:39
Estel_	due to 300mA difference	00:40
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, I just did	00:40
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Estel_	~onjoin DocScrutinizer blablabla	00:40
infobot	ok, Estel_	00:40
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Estel_	so maybe	00:40
Estel_	~onjoin -DocScrutinizer blablabla	00:40
infobot	Estel_: ok	00:40
Estel_	~onjoin -DocScrutinizer	00:40
infobot	Estel_: ok	00:40
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*** Estel_ was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		00:40
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ShadowJK	Well there's known parasitic/undocumented resistance in the path between charging circuit and battery, and we know that the heat is resistancecurrentcurrent (current squared), so.. :P	00:41
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, he was removing it?	00:41
DocScrutinizer	~onjoin -DocScrutinizer	00:41
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infobot	ok, DocScrutinizer	00:41
ShadowJK	<ShadowJK> Well there's known parasitic/undocumented resistance in the path between charging circuit and battery, and we know that the heat is resistancecurrentcurrent (current squared), so.. :P	00:41
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Estel_	thanks for quoting...	00:41
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, care to leave berserker mode? I was actua..y clearing onjoin for You	00:42
poro	infobot: status	00:42
infobot	Since Tue Jan 3 23:54:57 2012, there have been 11 modifications, 348 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 200 commands. I have been awake for 8d 22h 47m 36s this session, and currently reference 118348 factoids. I'm using about 35500 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 2580.67/54.35 child 0/0	00:42
Estel_	~die	00:42
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		00:42
poro	active fork? what so it can "think" for a while?	00:42
ShadowJK	I suspect it forks shitty perl scripts	00:43
DocScrutinizer	~+help lobotomize	00:43
infobot	no help on lobotomize. Use 'help' without arguments.	00:43
Estel_	anyway, this whole onjoin mess gave me a nice idea for april's fool day	00:43
Estel_	does infobot also have channel operator status?	00:44
DocScrutinizer	~+help lobotomy	00:44
infobot	I can be given a lobotomy ([o] is required) if people start to abuse me. To bring me back to life, give me an unlobotomy	00:44
ShadowJK	Estel_, I don't really care what you do with your own N900, but personally I'm not risking it, considering the poor availability of N900s today, and their habbit of dying mysterious deaths	00:44
Estel_	ShadowJK, exactly true	00:45
poro	1250 sounds like overkill	00:45
Estel_	that's why I concluded it's not worth the risk	00:45
ShadowJK	poro, not if you're charging a 2500mAh battery	00:45
Estel_	diferrence from 950 to 1250 is only 300 mA	00:45
ShadowJK	from the battery's point of view	00:45
Estel_	not worth the risk	00:45
poro	are we calkin gCPU MHz or charge current?	00:45
Estel_	well actually I'm charging 3070 mAh one...	00:45
poro	im talking OC speeds	00:45
Estel_	we're talking charging current	00:45
ShadowJK	I don't have a overclock either. It's funny, when people started overclocking, they were like "Well I don't care if it dies in a year, next year nokia will have a N910 or whatever and I'll get that instead!"	00:46
Estel_	That's why I asked first knowledgeable one (ShadowJK ;) ) before trying, actually	00:46
poro	well, N9 is out	00:46
Estel_	well, N9 is a joke	00:46
poro	and, id imagine its more or less as open as n900 was	00:46
Estel_	anyway	00:46
SpeedEvil	poro: hahahhhhahahahahhahah.	00:47
poro	just QT instead of GTK	00:47
ShadowJK	poro, it's way more closed, people are still struggling to use it	00:47
poro	ok	00:47
Estel_	I use 500-900mhz limits rock stable	00:47
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DocScrutinizer	~chanset	00:47
Estel_	Personally, I plan to use my N900 for years	00:47
poro	mgedmin had a postiive N9 comment on LWN's tizen thread	00:47
poro	and that blogger the debian-mobile guy linked to liked his	00:48
Estel_	If I would pau such insane money for new to,y I would probably also comment it positively	00:48
ShadowJK	poro, I haven't followed it closely, but to me it appears it's more difficult to break/root/hack N9 than most android handsets	00:48
poro	ouch	00:48
Estel_	~aegis	00:48
infobot	http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif	00:48
poro	he also had a N950, so i doubt he paid for it or anything.	00:48
poro	gotta suck up to hte "people who send me free stuff"	00:48
poro	http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fUgbx4RTpGY/TreyKLXw6aI/AAAAAAAAANc/5wvYTlwG5xo/s1600/freemobile1.jpg	00:49
ShadowJK	I'm sure that N9 is ok for people who only want to do, uh, web stuff?	00:49
Estel_	for 600 pounds	00:49
Estel_	Big Bad Browser for 600pounds...	00:49
poro	its 3x the price of n900 available NIB on ebay	00:49
Estel_	nope	00:50
Estel_	N900 in ideal condition can be bought for as low as 150dollars	00:50
Estel_	withnout searching, for 200$	00:50
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* ShadowJK wonders if there's a summary page for the open/closed and flasher status of N9		00:51
poro	wow it has trusted-comuting crap	00:51
poro	nevermind	00:51
DocScrutinizer	~+chanset #maemo	00:52
infobot	chan: #maemo (see _default also)	00:52
infobot	OnJoin => 0, _time_added => 1179878166, autojoin => infobot	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	Estel_: sorry for berserkermode :-D. Would you please test the ~onjoin DocScrutinizer blabla again?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: ^^^ ?	00:54
ShadowJK	?	00:55
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: Would you please test "~onjoin DocScrutinizer blabla"	00:55
ShadowJK	~onjoin DocScrutinizer blabla	00:55
DocScrutinizer	thanks	00:56
DocScrutinizer	~onjoin DocScrutinizer	00:58
DocScrutinizer	~onjoin #maemo DocScrutinizer	00:59
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poro	can you program the bot via msg or something?	01:04
poro	maybe cuz i have notices/privmsgs ignored i never noticed what the problem was (nor do i ever join/part if i can avoid it)	01:04
poro	but this relentless configuring has gone on about 5 screens	01:04
poro	ah he does work via msg	01:05
DocScrutinizer	it's finished and tested now, so chill a bit	01:05
DocScrutinizer	:-D	01:05
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poro	~android	01:06
infobot	i heard android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible	01:06
poro	~openmoko	01:06
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, openmoko is a joint venture of FIC and the open source community creating a complete open source phone platform stack. see http://openmoko.com	01:06
poro	wow, where do i get on board!	01:06
DocScrutinizer	and yes, you can also /query infobot, but I can't do all the stuff you can, as some of the stuff always works when _I_ do it ;-D	01:06
DocScrutinizer	~query	01:07
infobot	talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)	01:07
DocScrutinizer	poro: get on board of... what?	01:07
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, sorry, I've beebmafk. And, no problem	01:08
poro	openmoko!!	01:08
Estel_	well, openmoko website was quite outdated when I last checked, it's nice that it's alive	01:08
poro	ive seen like, homebrew GTA04v12 runs by german tweakers	01:08
poro	have they fixed mic-buzz issue yet heh	01:08
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, honestly, objectively - does it have chance to be ready for end-users-geeks anytime in upcoming years?	01:09
DocScrutinizer	poro: http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/	01:09
DocScrutinizer	poro: no, I have fixed buzz ;-D	01:09
poro	yeah ok, i lack a GTA01/2 to plug it into	01:09
DocScrutinizer	~joerg	01:09
infobot	i guess joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer	01:09
Estel_	I'm asking as You seems to be knowledgeable about openmoko	01:09
Estel_	~DocScrutinizer	01:10
infobot	[docscrutinizer] jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko	01:10
Estel_	~Estel	01:10
Estel_	booo ;)	01:10
DocScrutinizer	poro: Nikolaus of Goldelico is aware of the problem. Right ATM "we" are searching for ways to build new spare cases	01:11
DocScrutinizer	OTOH you probably can find a used GTA02 for ~80 bucks	01:12
DocScrutinizer	maybe 60	01:12
Estel_	oh fuck, one question ok?	01:12
Estel_	I'm using encrypted partition without filesystem, that I've already set to mapper	01:12
Estel_	lest say	01:13
Estel_	/dev/mapper/truecrypt1	01:13
Estel_	now I want to make filesystem on it	01:13
Estel_	but, neither Truecrypt automaticaly, or I manually can do it, due to f*ckin error:	01:13
Estel_	/dev/mapper/truecrypt1 is mounted; will not make a filesystem here!	01:13
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DocScrutinizer	hah	01:14
poro	~tizen	01:14
Estel_	how the holy shit can I mkfs a encrypted partition without erasing encryption?	01:14
poro	https://lwn.net/Articles/474805/	01:14
Estel_	scratching my head about it for 2 hours	01:14
DocScrutinizer	Estel_: a good question	01:14
Estel_	"with a very interesting answer for it. You can have it for mere 12 billions of credits"	01:15
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Estel_	sorry, can't stop myself from quoting star control 2	01:15
Estel_	the worst thing is that it seems to work for other people	01:15
Estel_	wtf I am doing wrong?...	01:15
Estel_	umount /dev/mapper/truecrypt1	01:17
Estel_	umount: can't umount /dev/mapper/truecrypt1: Invalid argument	01:17
DocScrutinizer	Estel_: either: there's a way to override the test in mkfs so it will create a FS on loopmounted devices (seems that shall work since ages, as normal loopmounts of files as partitions is a common practice), or: your mount has to be so much different to a normal mount that it doesn't look like a mount to mkfs anymore. For that topic mount -o loop seems obsolete	01:17
Estel_	mkfs.ext4 /dev/mapper/truecrypt1	01:18
Estel_	hm	01:18
Estel_	mke2fs 1.41.3.maemo0 (12-Oct-2008)	01:18
Estel_	/dev/mapper/truecrypt1 is mounted; will not make a filesystem here!	01:18
Estel_	paranoia	01:18
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, will check for force parameters on mkfs	01:18
DocScrutinizer	losetup?	01:19
Estel_	DocScrutinizer, verbose mode pls?	01:20
DocScrutinizer	man losetup	01:20
DocScrutinizer	>>... For that topic mount -o loop seems obsolete	01:20
Estel_	no manual entry for losetup, will browse for it ;)	01:21
Estel_	yea , guessed that, thanks... will try	01:21
Estel_	it seems that there is no way to override tests in mkfs eh... checking losetup	01:25
Estel_	the thing is	01:25
Estel_	that I can't mount it normally	01:25
Estel_	even via -o loop or losetup	01:25
Estel_	or mkfs will override encryption	01:25
Estel_	it has to be mounted by truecrypt, so decryption on the fly	01:26
Estel_	then it should mkfs without problem, no idea why it complain about it "being mounted"	01:26
Estel_	truecrypt "mounts" /dev/mmcblk0px to /dev/mapper/truecrypt1 , asking for passwords keyfiles etc	01:27
Estel_	truecrypt "mounts" /dev/mmcblk0px to /dev/mapper/truecrypt1 , asking for passwords keyfiles etceing mounted	01:27
DocScrutinizer	Estel_: man 8 mount\|less "+/THE LOOP DEVICE"	01:27
Estel_	thanks, will check...	01:28
Estel_	sorry for my ignorance, but how to merge it with truecrypt mounting, that is absolutely necessary...	01:28
Estel_	or I end with non encrypted partition, that was mkfs'ed	01:29
DocScrutinizer	it seems to me you fist loopmount your file/partition to /dev/mycryptdev, then format that with e.g mkfs.crypt /dev/mycryptfs	01:29
Estel_	wait wait. so should I ommit mapper at all?	01:29
DocScrutinizer	then umount it and mount again from file/partition to /dev/mycryptfs TO /mst/cryptstore, according to man 8 mount\|less "+/THE LOOP DEVICE"	01:30
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gh0strider	can anyone here recommend a phone that will work great with linux/maemo products that will also work with the sprint network ?	01:30
gh0strider	i really wish i could go with the nokia n900 but it will not work with sprint...	01:30
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Estel_	DocScrutinizer, thanks, it seems sane	01:31
Estel_	yet, one problem	01:31
Estel_	/dev/truecrypt1 dissapears as soon as truecrypt mount is disabled	01:31
Estel_	>> it seems to me you fist loopmount your file/partition to /dev/mycryptdev, then format that with e.g mkfs.crypt /dev/mycryptfs	01:31
Estel_	don't have /dev/truecrypt1 to mount my encrypted partition to.	01:32
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Estel_	or I'm missing something?	01:32
gh0strider	so does anyone have any recommendations for a phone that will work with sprint that i could install linux on and maemo products?	01:34
DocScrutinizer	losetup seems to be able to mount a file to /dev/CryptedLoop1, without same time mounting /dev/CryptedLoop1 to /mst/MyCryptedStore	01:34
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gh0strider	i would apprecaite any advise you guys might have...	01:35
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Estel_	DocScrutinizer, yes, just a second, as I seem to miss the obvious	01:35
Estel_	how can I mount a partition or file to /dev/CryptedLoop1 without /dev/cryptedLoop1	01:35
DocScrutinizer	mkfs should format a /dev/CryptedLoop1	01:35
Estel_	existing	01:35
DocScrutinizer	losetup	01:36
Estel_	yes, but to cryptedloop1 to exist, it need to be mounted by truecrypt	01:36
Estel_	or losetup can "create" /dev/?	01:36
DocScrutinizer	I'd guess it can	01:36
DocScrutinizer	it's the purpose of losetup, according to manpage	01:36
Estel_	will try it, but what wonders me, is why the fuck it works on desktop linux and, reportedly, on other people's devices without so much hassle	01:37
DocScrutinizer	Setup loop device:	01:37
DocScrutinizer	losetup [{-e\|-E} encryption] [-o offset] [--sizelimit limit]	01:37
DocScrutinizer	[-p pfd] [-r] {-f[--show]\|loopdev} file	01:37
Estel_	NIN101 tried it fwq hoursd ago and he was just able to mkfs.ext4 /de//truecrypt1 so I wondeer wtf	01:37
Estel_	ah	01:37
Estel_	missunderstood that	01:37
Estel_	ok, will try	01:37
Estel_	dev* not /de// of course >> (...) he was just able to mkfs.ext4 /dev/truecrypt1 (without hassle)	01:38
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Estel_	damn, it's beyond my understanding	01:41
Estel_	even when I suceed at creating /dev/	01:41
Estel_	it	01:41
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Estel_	isn't properly decrypted without truecrypt	01:42
Estel_	and if I truecrypt mount loopback device	01:42
Estel_	same story	01:42
Estel_	won't mkfs it due to it being mounted	01:42
Estel_	losetup can't decrypt it without truecrypt that provides passwords and keyfiles.	01:42
DocScrutinizer	I never looked into truecrypt - would expect they have a decent wiki page that deals with "how to format a raw file to hold a truecrypted FS"	01:43
Estel_	heh, they have	01:43
Estel_	mkfs.* /dev/mapper/truecrypt1	01:43
Estel_	it should damn work out of the box	01:43
Estel_	that's the thrill.	01:43
Estel_	On desktop ikt works. NIN101reported that it also works for him	01:44
DocScrutinizer	maybe your kernel isn't up-to-date	01:44
Estel_	TrueZCrypt can also mkfs it just after creation, automaticaly. And, while trying that, ekfs2 complained about it being mounted	01:44
Estel_	well, NIN101 uses same kernel-power	01:45
Estel_	it seems, that only my mkfs complain	01:45
DocScrutinizer	quite obviously encrypted FS is using kernel level FS drivers	01:45
Estel_	yes, properly loaded	01:45
Estel_	it is decrypted properly	01:45
Estel_	if i provide wrong password, it complains	01:45
Estel_	with good password, it mount it properly as raw partition	01:45
Estel_	the only thing that doesn't seem to work as it should is damn mkfs	01:46
DocScrutinizer	pragmatic solution: copy the already formated "empty" raw file to N900	01:46
DocScrutinizer	from PC	01:46
Estel_	tried mkfs.ext2, .ext3, .ext4	01:46
gh0strider	no suggestions for any other phones for linux and maemo products other than n900?	01:46
Estel_	can't do, it's a partition, not file	01:46
Estel_	file is utterly useless on wear-leveled storage	01:46
DocScrutinizer	dd then :-D	01:46
Estel_	right	01:47
Estel_	that's the option :P	01:47
Estel_	gh0strider, You wont't use "maemo products' on non Maemo phone	01:47
Estel_	especially on android	01:47
Estel_	and wtf is that springnet You need to use so badly?	01:47
gh0strider	Estel sprint network	01:48
Estel_	whatever	01:48
gh0strider	is there any maemo phones that might work with sprint?	01:48
Estel_	is it some closed propertiary p2p?	01:48
Estel_	~sprint	01:48
infobot	Sprint is a company that promises you the blue sky yet fails to deliver everytime. Do yourself a favor and don't call 1-800-PIN-DROP.	01:48
Estel_	;)	01:49
Estel_	may I ask You why You need sprint network?	01:49
gh0strider	Estel_: i signed a 2 year contract with them, i really did not want to go with sprint but my girl's sister works for sprint so we signed up with her on a 2 year contract...	01:50
Estel_	what a meritocratic reason ;)	01:50
Estel_	anyway	01:50
Hurrian	@ghostrider: better question is "do any maemophones have a CDMA chip" ?	01:50
Estel_	AFAIK there is solution to use such strange wifi provider in N900	01:51
Estel_	LOL	01:51
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: There are two public maemo phones.	01:51
Estel_	You're talking about wifi, no CDMA, yep?	01:51
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: The n900, and the n9.	01:51
SpeedEvil	Hurrian: That's it.	01:51
Estel_	N9 isn't maemo	01:51
DocScrutinizer	giving the money directly to her would've been a better ratio tahn paying for sprint to give her 0.5% provision	01:51
SpeedEvil	Estel_: debatably	01:51
Estel_	N9 is unknown harmattanish object	01:51
SpeedEvil	There are up to two then,	01:52
Hurrian	sucks for americans to have the best networks be CDMA and not GSM like the rest of the world	01:52
gh0strider	i know i can order a n900 but i would like to get a phone that i could use and install linux on it and since i am with sprint i need a phone that will work with sprint...	01:52
Estel_	gh0strider, I don't know any phone with cdma any way, but americans got some, probably	01:52
Estel_	buy a tablet + cdma modem?	01:52
Estel_	or even better, network?	01:53
Estel_	tfu	01:53
Estel_	netbook	01:53
SpeedEvil	gh0strider: you can't install maemo on a phone, even if you can instlal linux.	01:53
Estel_	or, buy a cdma modem that got linux driversand use it with N900 via hostmode?	01:53
gh0strider	ya i have been using linux for awhile but i am brand new to this whole mobile linux phone area...	01:53
Estel_	otherwise, SpeedEvil is totally true so no joy for You	01:54
Hurrian	@gh0strider lots of android phones have CDMA versions. if you want, grab the cheapest crapola android phone with wifi tethering	01:54
Estel_	...and tether wifi to N900	01:54
gh0strider	i think i am going to have to go with an android phone	01:54
Estel_	would also do	01:54
gh0strider	i think they have some ubuntu android versions out there...	01:54
Estel_	no, they have not ;)	01:54
Estel_	android != GNU	01:54
Estel_	only linux kernel	01:54
Estel_	and that is even changing lately	01:55
Estel_	~android	01:55
infobot	it has been said that android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible	01:55
gh0strider	Estel_: i think you know what i meant...	01:55
gh0strider	no need to be so technical	01:55
Estel_	to be honest, no	01:55
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo android	01:56
infobot	android -- created by TimRiker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> at Tue May 27 20:54:25 2008 (1325 days); last modified at Fri Jul 11 20:47:02 2008 by mjr!i=mjrauhal@myntti.helsinki.fi; it has been requested 21 times, last by Estel_, 55s ago.	01:56
Hurrian	if linux hw support wasn't good and bsd driver support wasn't shit, google could port the entire Android stack to *BSD ;)	01:56
gh0strider	okay if thats how you feel...	01:56
Estel_	I don't see any relation between ubuntu and androidp on any level	01:56
DocScrutinizer	wow	01:56
DocScrutinizer	a genuine timriker factoid :-D	01:56
DocScrutinizer	mentioning Neo	01:56
gh0strider	this channel is harsh... =-P	01:56
Estel_	gh0strider, no harsh intended	01:56
Hurrian	@gh0strider you should see tmo.	01:56
Estel_	I really honestly don't know what You mean by ubuntu android	01:57
Estel_	without any irony on layer 2	01:57
Hurrian	i think he means a chroot	01:57
Hurrian	which is ass-backwards, painful and stupid on so many levels	01:57
Estel_	ah, maybe	01:57
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Estel_	well, our ED chroot is working well lately thanks to Sulu and others work. I doubt Android got so qorking chroot	01:57
Hurrian	i've been trying to bear with unity 2d on an ubuntu chroot on a tab 8.9 - it's laggier than the android ui itself	01:58
Hurrian	because vnc	01:58
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Estel_	I will grill TrfueCrypt maintainer for uploading version that fails to work with mkfs on my device	01:58
Estel_	wait, the maintainer is me	01:58
Estel_	well, I need to think about it for a while. BRB	01:58
Hurrian	and because android doesn't have a native xserver = big problem	01:58
Hurrian	if you want to run desktop linux apps	01:59
* SpeedEvil passes Estel_ some barbecue sauce.		01:59
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Estel_	honestly. Could any good sould apt-get install truecrypt from -testing or -devel, then, create a 5mb or any size encrypted file container...	02:06
Estel_	setting truecrypt to also mkfs it with any filesystem?	02:07
Estel_	ot's driving me nuts	02:07
Estel_	it's	02:07
Estel_	NIN101 told me that it works in his case, I need to filter out if it's general bug or just me	02:07
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Estel_	and if me, why, why, why!	02:07
Estel_	it just goes ok, then, at finish, throw a message that it will not mkfs my new encrypted (and mounted by truecrypt) volume, because it's... mounted	02:08
* SpeedEvil finds that his wifi net won't connect again.		02:09
Estel_	same if I try manually to mkfs it	02:09
* SpeedEvil stabs icd and reboots.		02:09
Estel_	~ressurect	02:10
Estel_	ShadowJK, You know how eMMC wear-*leveling works...	02:11
SpeedEvil	Nobody does.	02:11
SpeedEvil	Unless they're in the right bit of toshiba.	02:11
SpeedEvil	It's a secret.	02:12
Estel_	does it respect partition layout, i.e. level only on surface of partition, or throws the f* parts all over flash?	02:12
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Estel_	lol	02:12
Estel_	hate forced wear-leveling	02:12
SpeedEvil	The general consensus based on what seems to be occurring based on fragmentary info is that:	02:12
Estel_	OS and filesysten should control that	02:12
SpeedEvil	The blocks - eraseblocks are 256K or so. You can't erase a finer grain than this.	02:12
SpeedEvil	Every 1024 blocks or so are gathered into a wear leveling zone.	02:13
Estel_	yea, that's true. Thanks. Any info on respecting partition layout?	02:13
SpeedEvil	Of this, 1000 blocks are used, and 24 are spare	02:13
Estel_	i.e. dd'ing entire partition, I can assume that wear level was fooled, or will I have nd copy of my encrypted blocks all over a drive?	02:13
SpeedEvil	The wear leveling occurs per-zone over the 1000 blocks, until an error over a threshold occurs at which point a spare block is mapped.	02:13
SpeedEvil	It's probable that the partition will be mostly respected	02:14
SpeedEvil	but where it straddles 'zones' - the edges will blur.	02:14
SpeedEvil	The simple reason is that you don't want to have to scan over the whole disk to find a sector.	02:14
Estel_	thanks for nice summarizaing	02:15
Estel_	if You got more info, go on	02:15
Estel_	it's interesting.	02:15
Estel_	I'm just b****ing about wear leveling in meantime	02:15
SpeedEvil	If you only have to look in a small block table, for 1000 blocks, it considerably speeds things up	02:15
SpeedEvil	that's about it alas.	02:15
Estel_	well, on microSD cards transparent wear-leveling really does respect partitions? I though it doesn't	02:15
Estel_	I would suspect same would apply to our eMMC	02:16
SpeedEvil	Why do you think it does respect partitions?	02:16
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Estel_	I thyink it doesn't	02:16
Estel_	as hardware leveling -> partitions -> logical filesystem	02:16
SpeedEvil	anyway - on truecrypt - walkthrough needed if you want a tester	02:17
Estel_	so, making 2 patitions on sd card and running flash killer on only one of them	02:17
Estel_	SpeedEvil, with pleasure	02:17
Estel_	on wear-leveling - killing partitioned sd should be faster than non partitioned from same batch	02:17
Estel_	i.e. half of sd should die quicker than whole sd	02:18
Estel_	yet, it seems to die exactly the same speed	02:18
SpeedEvil	possibly, yes.	02:18
Estel_	as for truecrypt	02:18
Estel_	as for truecrypt yep?	02:18
Estel_	now root in xterm	02:18
Estel_	and	02:18
SpeedEvil	The fundamental problem is there is no insight into the process.	02:18
Estel_	'truecrypt'	02:18
Estel_	yea	02:18
Estel_	fuckin closed&forced wear leveling	02:18
SpeedEvil	The above could be true for card A, but false for v1.1 of card A from the same maker	02:19
Estel_	on Gui, choose "create volume"	02:19
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Estel_	then, leave "file container" and hit return or click next	02:19
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Estel_	go through all options, choose for example to create file container on mydocs and make it 5MB size	02:20
SpeedEvil	I see no gUI after apt-get install truecrypt	02:20
Estel_	encryption and hash doesnt matter	02:20
Estel_	wait	02:20
Estel_	'truecrypt' from root doesn't give You a GUI?	02:20
Estel_	are You sure that You have extras-testing or -devel and apt-get update recently?	02:21
Estel_	there is no deasktop icon	02:21
Estel_	yet	02:21
SpeedEvil	possily not updated - hangon	02:21
Estel_	You start GUI from terminal (well, CLI is also available)	02:21
Estel_	ok	02:21
SpeedEvil	started truecrypot, and it's a cli	02:21
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SpeedEvil	updating	02:22
Estel_	nice	02:23
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Estel_	new version makes use of XTD modules from kp, and falls back to -m nokernelcrypto if modules aren't present	02:24
SpeedEvil	I assumed apt-get would update, when on reflection, it probably doesn't	02:24
SpeedEvil	stock kernel	02:24
Estel_	old version had nokernelcrypto hardcoded	02:24
Estel_	shouldn't matter	02:24
Estel_	it will just fallback to -m nokernelcrypto	02:24
Estel_	apt-get never updates when not asked to ;)	02:24
Estel_	thanks a_ain for testing it	02:24
SpeedEvil	ham is slow	02:25
Estel_	FAM here	02:25
SpeedEvil	updating a few packages	02:28
SpeedEvil	including truecrypt	02:28
SpeedEvil	'kernel does not support...' using ...	02:33
Estel_	ok	02:36
SpeedEvil	formatting aes file on mydocs	02:37
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Estel_	now, follow my walktheough from backscroll of our irc talk	02:37
Estel_	ok	02:37
SpeedEvil	successuflly	02:37
Estel_	which filesystem?	02:37
Estel_	You used?	02:37
DrGrov	Evening	02:37
Estel_	g.night	02:37
SpeedEvil	and made FAT fs	02:37
Estel_	SpeedEvil, it seems that only my mkfs complains	02:37
SpeedEvil	'volume created'	02:37
Estel_	thanks for it...	02:37
DrGrov	Where is the right place to ask Nokia N9 related questions?	02:38
Estel_	I got it encrypted properly but halt when mkfsing	02:38
Estel_	DrGrov, at Nokia support ;)	02:38
SpeedEvil	mkfs.vfat 2.11 (12 Mar 2005)	02:38
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DrGrov	Estel_: I mean here on IRC.	02:38
Estel_	my mkfs complain that "is mounted; won't make filesystem there!"	02:38
SpeedEvil	odd	02:39
Estel_	DrGrov, check for harmattan irc	02:39
SpeedEvil	I made a file in /home/user/MyDocs/test	02:39
DrGrov	Estel_: Thanks, I just read the topic and figured it out. :)	02:39
Estel_	hahaha same here	02:39
Estel_	yet	02:39
Estel_	even if it mount it manually	02:39
Estel_	even if it mount it manuallywith --filesystem=none	02:39
SpeedEvil	err - 'file' not 'test'	02:39
Estel_	so it's mounted, decrypted on the fly when needed, and raw partition	02:39
Estel_	or file	02:39
Estel_	it says that it's mounted so wont mkfs	02:40
Estel_	driving me crazy	02:40
SpeedEvil	wacky	02:40
Estel_	I would just dd my partition to desktop, mkfs it there, and dd back, but due to wear-leveling...	02:40
Estel_	I'll get +ome clones of blocks encrypted with same header	02:40
SpeedEvil	err no.	02:40
Estel_	= aiding cryproanalysis	02:40
SpeedEvil	You cannot tell the block device from a block device	02:41
SpeedEvil	_everything_ is hidden	02:41
Estel_	yes yes	02:41
SpeedEvil	wear leveling is invisible	02:41
SpeedEvil	oh - right	02:41
Estel_	but, wear level already spread my encrypted partitions chunks all over eMMC	02:41
SpeedEvil	yeah	02:41
Estel_	are You using busybox-power?	02:41
SpeedEvil	no	02:41
SpeedEvil	This is a mostly stock system	02:42
SpeedEvil	I've screwed with it very little	02:42
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Estel_	SpeedEvil, could you write here small ojutput of	02:43
Estel_	losetup -f	02:44
SpeedEvil	/dev/loop0	02:44
Estel_	hm	02:44
Estel_	In some forum	02:44
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Estel_	someone said to mkfs /dev/loop0	02:44
Estel_	now I have no way to check if it was created by truecrypt or not	02:45
Estel_	will try to see whete it points	02:45
Estel_	don't want to mkfs unknown thing :P	02:45
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Estel_	SpeedEvil, eureca, I'm mkfs'in something	02:57
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Estel_	after losetup /dev/loop0 /dev/mapper/truecrypt1	02:58
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Estel_	my /dev/loop0 disappeared, and /dev/loop2 popped up (!!!)	02:58
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Estel_	yet, when I used mkfs.ext4 /dev/loop0 - despite it seemed to be non-existing	02:58
Estel_	it actually started mkfs'ing	02:59
Estel_	I just hope it mkfs'es correct partition ;)	02:59
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SpeedEvil	"	03:01
SpeedEvil	;0	03:01
SpeedEvil	:)	03:01
Estel_	yet, now I can't unmount it...	03:02
Estel_	truecrypt complain about it being in use	03:03
Estel_	and losetup plau silly, stating that	03:03
Estel_	losetup -d /dev/loop0 no such ioctl	03:03
Estel_	losetup -d /dev/loop2 no such ioctl also	03:03
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Estel_	SpeedEvil, which block size and fragment size is best for ext on our eMMC?	03:04
Estel_	considering physical block size?	03:05
Estel_	I guess not 256kb, as it would mean every 100b file would take 1/4 MB from free space ;)	03:05
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Estel_	rebooting, brb	03:06
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poro	Microsoft has wasted no time in revising its Windows Hardware Certification Requirements to effectively ban most alternative operating systems on ARM-based devices that ship with Windows 8.https://www.softwarefreedom.org/blog/2012/jan/12/microsoft-confirms-UEFI-fears-locks-down-ARM/	05:14
SpeedEvil	:/	05:15
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robbiethe1st	Frigging hell	05:19
* robbiethe1st hates MS		05:19
robbiethe1st	If for no other reason than they took over Nokia. But for many other reasons as well	05:19
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sethstorm	robbiethe1st: quite well agreed	05:37
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Guest40473	Q: can anyone offer any guidance on how to modify the status string	05:45
Guest40473	that fremantle uses in rt-comm-presence-ui?	05:45
Guest40473	i see the file in ~user/.osso/.rt-comm-presence-ui stores a record of it under the [General] heading	05:46
Guest40473	but i cannot find source in rt-comm for the '-presence-ui' component	05:46
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poro	maybe /usr/share/locale somewhere, or /usr/lib/ocale	05:53
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bjv	when i disconnect all accounts in the statusmenu-presence-ui on n900, update the 'statusmessage' item in ~user/.osso/.rt-comm-presence-ui.cfg, then go to return from 'offline' to 'busy' in statusmenu-presence-ui	06:03
bjv	the statusmenu app does not seem to re-read the file	06:03
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poro	even after a reboot?	06:19
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bjv	if i go offline,	06:22
bjv	then kill hildon-status-menu	06:22
bjv	and wait for watchdog to restart it	06:22
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bjv	then_ it will reread the rt-comm config file	06:22
bjv	..not very clean process, though...	06:23
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bjv	hm.. user yoush got to exactly this point on 02-06-2010 , 09:13 AM	06:25
bjv	.. t_t http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43509&highlight=profile+status	06:25
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poro	i deleted all locale files exccept en_US and index stuff	06:27
poro	but Locale CP is ste to finland, and if i choose EN it reboots entirely, losing the change	06:27
poro	and, every string on the system is lk_this_yesno	06:27
poro	even after upgrading to CSSU	06:27
poro	apt-cache search locale shows all sorts of crap, but im not about to stab in the dark and figure out what is what	06:27
poro	ive found short symbols are readable after a while	06:28
ShadowJK	so you deleted locales, and you no longer have locales? I'd call that a success	06:33
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ShadowJK	en in control panel is probably en_GB	06:35
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bjv	CP>Lang&Region>"Device language" does specify #1 as English(United Kingdom) and #2 as English (United States of America)	06:39
bjv	but then again, I have not deleted all my locales..	06:39
bjv	for rt-comm-presence-ui... i feel like it's unlikely there's going to be anything in gconf	06:40
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bjv	since rt-comm is going out of its way to use some .conf file	06:41
bjv	and if there was anything useful to be found from introspecting dbus objects.. i feel like someone out there would have already documented	06:41
bjv	how to set nokia presence UI account 'status message'	06:42
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bjv	: \ there has got to be a better way then updating ~user/.osso/.rt-comm-presence-ui.cfg then restarting _all of hildon-status-menu	06:43
bjv	hopefully something short of decompiling statusmenu presence-ui to learn it's secrets	06:44
bjv	and ptracing to change status	06:44
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poro	well, why should it crash/reboot the entire OS when i pick a locale in the controlpanel	06:46
poro	sounds like a bug :P	06:46
poro	im too lazy to find what file theGUI edits	06:47
poro	dpkg-reconfigure locales doesnt work, cuz dokg-reconfigure doesnt exist	06:47
poro	~/.rt-com-presence-ui.cfg is rewrittenon boot or something?	06:48
infobot	okay, poro	06:48
poro	infobot: forget ~/.rt-com-presence-ui.cfg	06:49
infobot	poro: i didn't have anything called '~/.rt-com-presence-ui.cfg' to forget	06:49
poro	infobot: forget /.rt-com-presence-ui.cfg	06:49
infobot	poro: i forgot /.rt-com-presence-ui.cfg	06:49
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ShadowJK	It wouldn't work anyway, since locales get mostly relocated on first boot	06:51
poro	ye olde optification	06:53
ShadowJK	re updating status mesasage, does new status from status area menu's availability do anything?	06:53
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ShadowJK	poro; it tends to do random things after you delete or modify random things :-)	07:00
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ShadowJK	also before you try it, apt-get upgrade will do bad things	07:04
Sazpaimon	bit of a touchy subject - is there a way to spoof the imei of an N900	07:11
Sazpaimon	i want to try to get my girlfriend's tracfone sim to work on it, and i hear they lock them to a specific imei	07:11
Hurrian	you need some kind of flasher box to do this	07:14
Hurrian	and not the flashing jig kind, the "unlock phone" kind	07:14
Hurrian	also depends on certain special cmt software and cmt mode to do it, and doing it wrong results in a brick (or a MALF)	07:15
Hurrian	haven't seen it done on a BB5 generation phone though	07:15
Sazpaimon	yeah I haven't either	07:16
Sazpaimon	wondering if there may have been a software implementation	07:16
Sazpaimon	at least for the N900 :/	07:16
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Hurrian	nope	07:19
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Hurrian	maemo's communication with mobile stack is very separated	07:19
Sazpaimon	oh well	07:22
Sazpaimon	guess she's stuck with her crap phone then	07:22
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ShadowJK	it's a bit like having a usb modem connected to a laptop	07:24
ShadowJK	except in n900 it's ssi not usb	07:24
ShadowJK	and the modem is inside, not outside :P	07:25
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Hurrian	if she needs a nicer phone, there are many chinadroids with changeable IMEI	07:28
Hurrian	...and are pretty unbrickable due to u-boot in rom	07:28
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Sazpaimon	Hurrian, yes but I have an N900 that isn't in use	07:29
Hurrian	ah.	07:30
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Hurrian	hmm, i don't see why a carrier would lock SIM cards to certain phones	07:30
Sazpaimon	its tracfone	07:30
Sazpaimon	its government supported wireless	07:30
Sazpaimon	I think	07:31
Hurrian	so i'm assuming they lock it to shitty phones so that their network which is shittier than at&t's won't keel over?	07:31
Sazpaimon	its basically a super basic prepaid service	07:31
Sazpaimon	i think they use at&t's network	07:31
Sazpaimon	or rather, whatever network has the closest tower that they have deals with	07:32
Sazpaimon	she's fine with her tracfone, but she keeps it on silent because she gets a bunch of junk calls a day	07:32
Sazpaimon	i wanted to give her the N900 so she could make a whitelist of numbers that ring	07:32
Sazpaimon	in the end I may just put her on my plan	07:34
Sazpaimon	but I have a special deal going with tmobile	07:34
ShadowJK	N900 is high up on the unbrickable scale :)	07:34
Sazpaimon	I have their $60/month unlimited plan	07:35
Sazpaimon	that they cancelled after one day	07:35
Hurrian	ShadowJK: dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/mtd1	07:35
Hurrian	it's not quite clear what the above does, just that it's unsafe	07:36
Sazpaimon	doesnt the n900 have a jtag interface?	07:36
ShadowJK	also has a boot rom	07:37
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Sazpaimon	yeah I dont think there's a way to overwrite that from software	07:37
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ShadowJK	You can overwrite nolo though	07:38
Sazpaimon	can still be cold flashed though iirc	07:38
ShadowJK	ya	07:38
Hurrian	the point was, mtd1 can't be remade	07:39
Hurrian	containts quite a lot of apparently boot critical information	07:39
ShadowJK	Biggest issues generally seem to be beating PC's usb stacks into submission	07:39
Hurrian	but, if you have a backup, you can probably load a kernel to dd it back	07:39
Sazpaimon	but yeah, even if you could completely hose the boot rom, the jtag ports are easily accessable from under the battery	07:39
Hurrian	and iirc, n900 doesn't have jtag - it's USB	07:40
Sazpaimon	I thought it had 2 usb and a serial	07:40
Hurrian	serial is not necessarily jtag	07:40
Hurrian	my router has uart, but it's not jtag	07:40
Hurrian	n900 has 2 usb - the one that breaks easily, and the flasher port	07:41
Sazpaimon	there are 3 or 4 ports under the battery	07:41
Hurrian	the serial port is the one that enables super battery draining, according to flasher-3.5	07:41
Sazpaimon	it may be 3 ports, because two are separated and one isn't	07:42
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Sazpaimon	there's two 7 pin ports at the bottom and one 14 pin port	07:43
Hurrian	http://www.cpkb.org/wiki/Nokia_N900_pinout	07:43
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Sazpaimon	okay so the 8 pin is USB, makes sense	07:44
Sazpaimon	what are the oter 3 ports?	07:44
Sazpaimon	*other	07:44
dm8tbr	those are just groups of pins, not ports...	07:44
dm8tbr	8 pins is far too many for one USB port	07:45
Sazpaimon	yeah, the 4 ports on the 8 pin are for USB	07:46
Sazpaimon	my bad	07:46
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Sazpaimon	so what are those two groups of pins at the bottom connected to	07:48
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dm8tbr	to anything that could be useful. serial ports, reference voltages, usb, sdio, ... and that is only looking at the OMAP3	07:56
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dm8tbr	there could be also other chips that get some of their ports routed there. e.g. the TWL/TPS	07:57
dm8tbr	didn't the schematics leak at some point? you should be able to read it from those	07:57
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Jiri-	Hello i have problem to install as root the fcam-drivers	11:51
Jiri-	i used command apt-get install fcam-drivers but not working	11:52
Jiri-	it says that it cannot find files from reposity.maemo.org ? any ide how to solve this?	11:53
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Jiri-	soryy my mistake my wlan connection was not working now i got it!	11:57
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1147574&postcount=392	13:20
DocScrutinizer	Pali: no further info available, all found out by mere deduction. You need RE or in-detail investigations to find out	13:21
Pali	ok	13:24
DocScrutinizer	Pali: obviously there are several ways to implement that. Rootfs aka lockcode-query-process just has to check if some hash for MyDocs is still matching the actual filesystem. OTOH it's probably advisable to store the actual query=[yes\|no] flag on MyDocs or /home as well, as otherwise lockcode got engaged whenever you reflash rootfs, no matter if it been active before rootfs-reflash or not. Then again, we actually seen reports that were like	13:29
DocScrutinizer	that ("...started to ask for lockcode after rootfs reflash...")	13:29
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DocScrutinizer	I gather this "started to ask" will maybe happen when you set a lockcode, then disable it again, then reflash rootfs. While default/virgin CAL lockcode HASH "12345" will always cause no query on boot, but obviously no way to restore that hash	13:31
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Pali	setting lock code is possible only in control panel?	13:32
Pali	if yes, only this cp library can do any change: /usr/lib/hildon-control-panel/libcpdevicelock.so	13:33
Pali	no, there is also library /usr/lib/libcodelockui.so.1	13:35
Pali	which calling program /bin/devlocktool	13:35
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Pali	osso-applet-devicelock (1.4.10) unstable; urgency=low	13:38
Pali	* Fixes: NB#153115 - Flashing disables locking	13:38
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	13:42
DocScrutinizer	now if we could get the patch/source as well... :-)	13:43
DocScrutinizer	Pali: against which PR was this NB# patch checked in?	13:45
DocScrutinizer	IOW which PR bersion brought the fix to us?	13:45
DocScrutinizer	PR1.3?	13:45
Pali	1.4.10 is last version	13:45
Pali	so PR1.3	13:46
Pali	this is in chanelog file in /usr/share/doc/osso-applet-devicelock/changelog.gz	13:46
DocScrutinizer	Pali: 2 commands starting with devlock*	13:49
DocScrutinizer	tool and -blocker	13:50
Pali	ok, I will see on it later. now I'm prepairing for exam (goldberg, dinic algorithm, ...)	13:52
* DocScrutinizer wishes we could get rid of this docpurge abomination, maybe in CSSU		13:53
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DocScrutinizer	~ # cat /usr/share/doc/README	13:53
DocScrutinizer	Purged by docpurge	13:53
Pali	download it from downloads.maemo.nokia.com	13:54
DocScrutinizer	download what?	13:54
Pali	deb package	13:54
DocScrutinizer	which one?	13:54
Pali	osso-applet-devicelock	13:54
DocScrutinizer	nah	13:55
Pali	(which has that changelog)	13:55
DocScrutinizer	I wanna get rid of docpurge	13:55
Pali	really? not possible	13:55
Pali	you need to create new FW	13:55
DocScrutinizer	and get all the fine manpages and /usr/share/doc	13:55
Pali	fiasco image	13:55
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DocScrutinizer	anyway, have to run for work, to show I'm showing up despite feeling sick	13:56
DocScrutinizer	ttyl	13:56
Pali	libdevlock (1.0.9) unstable; urgency=low	13:57
Pali	* Fixes: NB#153115 - Flashing disables locking	13:57
Pali	also PR1.3	13:57
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* DocScrutinizer51 wonders how to change buildserver so docpurge would rum on target (or not, if users decides to disable that) rather than on buildserver		14:19
Lava_Croft	hmm, rum	14:20
DocScrutinizer51	freud-typo - I could use some tea with rum for my flu	14:22
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer51: maybe they could beer it on the target too ;)	14:22
Lava_Croft	use sauna and wodka	14:23
Lava_Croft	fixes any cold	14:23
hiemanshu	vodka*	14:23
Lava_Croft	wodka in dutch	14:23
Lava_Croft	i think if you cannot fix a disease with sauna, tar and Vodka, the disease is fatal	14:25
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AKBAAR	hi	14:25
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Macer	has anybody tried debian based on HURD?	14:40
Macer	or any other hurd based distro?	14:40
Macer	i am curious as to how well it works	14:40
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vetsin_	hi guys! did the Jan 12 meeting push through? where can i find the minutes?	14:43
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer, doesn't docpurge run on target already?	14:48
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Jef91	Does anyone know i there are .deb packages anywhere for a uboot that has ext2 patches built into it for maemo?	15:29
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badcloud	anyone notice microb isn't as stable in cssu?	17:29
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merlin1991	badcloud: nope	17:41
merlin1991	we had pretty random claims about pretty muc hevery single thing in maemo that "suddenly is worse after cssu" but microb wasn't one of them	17:41
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ruskie	http://www.reghardware.com/2012/01/13/nokia_joins_hands_with_ea_in_major_winpho_game_launch/	17:45
RST38h	and?	17:46
badcloud	merlin1991: I see	17:46
badcloud	modest has been crashing the $%^& out since and since I found a bug report linking it to cssu, I figured microb might be affected as well	17:46
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RST38h	Meanwhile: Marines in urination video interviewed!	17:48
badcloud	RST38h: glad we cleared that up	17:49
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badcloud	what, no followup scatology joke?	17:56
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Estel_	good afternoon, #maemo	18:06
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RST38h	I am Fatimah Mahamat, a Muslim.I have picked your email address for an	18:12
RST38h	inheritance of ¸18.2million Pounds.Please contact me for more details via	18:12
RST38h	email	18:12
RST38h	Candid, indeed	18:13
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SpeedEvil	She clearly is desirous of your body.	18:15
RST38h	even on her deathbed? cute.	18:15
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RST38h	mooo javispedro	18:21
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javispedro	mo.	18:21
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Estel_	SpeedEvil, considering our hyphotetical knowledge about characteristic of eMMC blocks etc, what is best-performance wise - block and fragment size, while creating ext partition?	18:33
Estel_	black humour would tell 256k (joke, of course, due to space savings reasons)	18:34
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SpeedEvil	Estel_: It's hard to say.	18:35
SpeedEvil	I would randomly guess at 8K.	18:35
Estel_	thx. Why so? purely /dev/random?	18:35
javispedro	on ext4 there's stripe-width btw	18:35
SpeedEvil	Bery large blocks waste space.	18:36
SpeedEvil	Too small blocks may cause excessive rewrites	18:36
Estel_	agreed. Although, it would be fun to see 256k block totally negatining flash erase-write fault, though. Not so funny when having there something else than continous, few-GB archives	18:37
Estel_	javispedro, wtf is stripe-width?	18:37
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javispedro	Estel_: it's best if you google it up as my memory is haze	18:38
javispedro	but one of its uses was large erase block sizes	18:38
Estel_	true, thx	18:38
Estel_	hm	18:38
Estel_	hminteresting	18:38
Pali	DocScrutinizer, docpurge is deb package which contains script which apt-get call after package is installed	18:39
Estel_	I'm using ext4 for home, easy debian, and g,low-priority truecrypt part	18:39
Pali	DocScrutinizer, changes must be done on device, not on build server	18:39
Estel_	I'll google it up - I wonder if it's used by default, or special parametermust be given during mkfs	18:40
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javispedro	Estel_: mkfs or afterwards via tune2fs	18:41
Estel_	I suppose tune2fs shold be used only on unmounted part ;) Goin to recovery console and trying, thanks a lot	18:43
Estel_	(due to /home/)	18:44
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RST38h	Meanwhile: US military access cards cracked by Chinese hackers	18:59
DocScrutinizer51	Pali: thanks	19:00
DocScrutinizer51	lo javispedro	19:00
Pali	DocScrutinizer51, I think that if you remove docpurge package on your n900, then all new installed packages (or reinstalled) will have proper /usr/share/doc/<package>/... files	19:01
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DocScrutinizer51	\o/	19:01
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DocScrutinizer51	something to look forward to, when home from work	19:02
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RST38h	Doc: What? =)	19:03
DocScrutinizer51	(just fsckng deinstalled a wrong UBB driver for 3h)	19:03
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DocScrutinizer51	on XP	19:03
DocScrutinizer51	basically since 2 days	19:03
RST38h	oh	19:03
RST38h	funfun	19:04
DocScrutinizer51	2 boards with saame ID here	19:04
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DocScrutinizer51	device mgr brainfsckd!	19:05
DocScrutinizer51	~lart MS	19:05
* infobot pushes the wall down onto MS whilst whistling innocently		19:05
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DocScrutinizer51	work is fun	19:06
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javispedro	I feel the pain	19:07
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javispedro	some years ago I was developing some el-cheapo usb headphones using a ezusb and xp as host	19:07
javispedro	it was horrible, you could consistently (and unconsistently) confuse xp into the weirdest states possible	19:08
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DocScrutinizer51	installing cygwin - thoroughly fed up with redmond bullsh*t	19:22
RedPenguin	any way to make a bluetooth modem sharing WiFi from the N810?	19:22
RST38h	cygwin has got its own warts	19:22
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, now working on automounting support in ke-recv for usb host mode	19:32
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Pali	seems that problem is that ke-recv checking if device is mmc, if not - it is not return error	19:33
Pali	but on next lines there is checking for usb storage device...	19:33
Pali	at least usb storage device in host mode is properly detected by HAL and ke-recv getting event about it	19:34
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RedPenguin	also has anybody ever gotten Kismet to work on the N810 with a bluetooth GPS?	19:40
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, Nokia disabled usb mounting for FREMANTLE in ke-recv, all code is #ifndef FREMANTLE_MODE	20:05
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SpeedEvil	:/	20:15
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DocScrutinizer51	Pali: :-S	20:16
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DocScrutinizer51	otoh it's maybe nice	20:16
* DocScrutinizer51 <3 cygwin		20:18
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, there is problem with hal	20:25
Pali	hal still has usb host mode a_suspend	20:25
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Pali	lshal -u /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usb_device_1d6b_2_musb_hdrc	20:26
Pali	but cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode show a_host	20:26
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Pali	so problem is that maybe kernel does not inform hal about musb changes...	20:26
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RST38h	Meanwhile: Ringtone causes New York Philharmonic mid-performance strike	20:32
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* RzR http://rzr.online.fr/q/vnc# InstalL #PresenceVnc to SharE and ControL any #DeskToP on #HarmattaN #MeeGo or #MaemO #HandSet !n950club !n9 etc		20:38
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Macer	uhm	20:41
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/13/build_star_trek_tricorder_please_ask_x_prize/ <-- hmm	20:42
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Macer	ruskie: wth... wow...	20:45
* Macer installs the maemo tricorder app and goes to collect his xprize		20:45
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freemangordon	Pali, your n900 still on repair?	21:12
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Pali	no, I have it back	21:13
Pali	now I'm working on automont in host mode with ke-recv	21:13
freemangordon	Pali, I confir the bug report on TMO re garbage on screaan	21:13
freemangordon	confirm*	21:14
Pali	uboot?	21:14
freemangordon	yeah	21:14
Pali	ok	21:14
freemangordon	the only time everything is ok is right after power-up	21:14
freemangordon	didn't test it with boot menu though	21:15
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RST38h	Meanwhile: Totally Drug-Resistant TB Emerges In India	21:17
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javispedro	RST38h: we're dooooomed	21:19
RST38h	javispedro: notsufficiently doomed by TB	21:20
RST38h	javispedro: just rolled back to 1910s	21:20
RST38h	javispedro: Now, an air-transmittable strain of syphilis would probably do the job	21:20
RST38h	javispedro: Long incubation periods, asymptomatic initial stages, you know... By the time medics find out, there will be a major clusterfuck	21:22
javispedro	somehow at this moment I'd wish that deadly air-transmittable totally drug-resistant syphilis was my main problem :D	21:23
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RST38h	javispedro: you wouldn't	21:24
Raimu	At least it'd take time to do its thang	21:25
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javispedro	RST38h: btw, you saw that the tizen sdk seems to be sb2?	21:30
RST38h	javispedro: yeaah, goood mooove =)	21:35
RST38h	javispedro: Stskeeps apparently approves too :)	21:35
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Pali	DocScrutinizer, automounting in host mode is now working :-)	21:44
Jef91	Does anyone know i there are .deb packages anywhere for a uboot that has ext2 patches built into it for maemo?	21:45
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DocScrutinizer51	Pali: wow!	22:05
DocScrutinizer51	Pali: how about automounting of e.g. DVD drive?	22:07
Pali	no idea	22:07
Pali	I cannot test it - I do not have any usb DVD drive	22:07
DocScrutinizer51	maybe even auto-switching to proper cursor for mouse, and xkbd layout for kbd	22:08
Pali	ke-recv only listen for hal events, but only mmc and usb events are checked by ke-recv	22:08
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Pali	this should be done in other daemon	22:09
Pali	ke-recv can only mount/unmount usb and mmc	22:09
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maher	how do i grep my texts?	22:10
Pali	but CD/DVD will maybe work, usb check is only for storage name	22:10
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Pali	if hal send event that optical dist storage was found, ke-recv will try to use & mount it (but it will use default name 'USB device')	22:11
Pali	if hal send correct filesystem, ke-recv will mount it	22:11
maher	does anyone know where they are stored on the mmc?	22:12
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NIN101	with texts you mean SMS?	22:13
maher	NIN101: yes	22:14
NIN101	sqlite database in /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger or something	22:14
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maher	NIN101: cool - thanks...	22:19
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antman8969	anyone in here have any experience with sqlite from QML?	22:21
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dafox	hi. I have a (probably) stupid question, but I'll ask anyway. I'd like to set up email and calendar synchronisation on my N900 with gmail/google calendar. I've googled a bit and I've found a number of different applications and guides etc. However I have no idea which ones are the best. Can you please give me some recommendations on what applications to use? Also one thing that I'm wondering is wether or not this is going to cost much diskspace? I	23:18
dafox	'd prefer for the phone not to cache my whole gmail folder or anything like that, just keep the last X days or connect to gmail on the fly?	23:18
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poro	getmail/fetchmail/offflineimap ?	23:35
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poro	use http://repo.or.cz/w/element.git in microb and http://notmuchmail.org/ in xterm myself	23:36
poro	havent tried the Mameo apps. are they good?	23:36
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dafox	I guess that is my question :P I was looking for something which integrates with the rest of the apps such as the mail and calender desktop widgets	23:46
dafox	what exactly is 'element'?	23:49
dafox	aha, found the readme	23:51
dafox	semantic web eh	23:51
poro	it just turns emails into html, esentially	23:53
poro	to the extent N900 has a keyboard, mutt/notmuch work fine	23:54
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dafox	can you recommend anything not cli ?	23:57
pronto\|vps2	o.O	23:57
pronto\|vps2	'not cli'	23:57
pronto\|vps2	you crazy man	23:57

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