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| Estel_ | evening, maemo | 02:08 |
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| Estel_ | w00t, have You guy been through logs from latest Council meeting with Nokia? | 03:34 |
| Estel_ | the latter peaked @ ignorance, sophism, and lack of respect for Community. | 03:35 |
| poro | nice | 03:42 |
| poro | i never expected much supprot from Nokia when buying n900 | 03:42 |
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| poro | forums were filled with 'a770, 810, whatever abandoned comments | 03:42 |
| Estel_ | could not agree with Your taionale | 03:43 |
| Hurrian | the pre-n900 tablets were relatively well supported -- the n900 was pretty much dropped like a rock | 03:43 |
| Estel_ | from N9 users perspective, forum are filled with N900 posts | 03:43 |
| Estel_ | anyway, I don't want support from Nokia as corporation - they can GTFO for me. | 03:43 |
| Hurrian | the n9 seems to be getting the same attention the n900 got -- pr1.1 within a few months. woo. | 03:43 |
| Estel_ | we have much more in common with 770 users, than with usual harmattan kids | 03:44 |
| poro | n9 you know youre gettin an abandoned product | 03:44 |
| Hurrian | @Estel_ : they can gtfo after they give us the source. | 03:44 |
| poro | n900 was being touted as "new strategy" for nokia on debian/gtk OS | 03:44 |
| Estel_ | tbh, I see much *less* knowledge presented amongst N9 users, but, nevermid | 03:44 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, true, but they wouldn't give us a source, so they could gtfo already | 03:45 |
| Estel_ | Reading about how they think they don't need to ask us if they want to merge us with appsforme pissed me off really. | 03:45 |
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| Estel_ | IMO, we should transfer infrastructure earlier, because one day | 03:45 |
| Hurrian | oh god. if we merged with appsforme the repo shitstorm would be massive. | 03:45 |
| Estel_ | we can awake with our infrastructure gone in favor of harmattanish, and next week, winsh|tphone | 03:46 |
| poro | whatever "Appsforme" it sounds more frightening than ovi | 03:46 |
| Estel_ | read ask the council thread pls | 03:46 |
| Estel_ | in latest post I linked to part of logs from meeting | 03:46 |
| Estel_ | logs are relatively short | 03:46 |
| poro | i could care less im never apt-get upgrading my maemo ever | 03:46 |
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| Estel_ | and part I'm reffering to is even shorter | 03:46 |
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| Estel_ | poro, not everyone is so supercool to not use repos ;) | 03:47 |
| poro | if the HW breaks, i'll buy tizen device if available. or reflash to PR1.3 | 03:47 |
| Estel_ | tizen shitizen | 03:47 |
| Estel_ | good luck with Big Bad Browser, erm, operating system | 03:47 |
| poro | ive got extras-devel extras-testing cssu in sources.list | 03:47 |
| Estel_ | anyway, going back on topic | 03:47 |
| poro | got an interesting new set of quirks on CSSU but my VOIP bugs remain | 03:48 |
| Estel_ | VOIP worksforme | 03:48 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 03:48 |
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| Hurrian | @Estel_ ,is moving to appsforme the "solution" to tmo running out of money? | 03:51 |
| poro | does http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Recentchanges contain wahtever link youre talking about | 03:51 |
| poro | im not seeing anything like "council logs" | 03:51 |
| poro | and maemo isnt exactly open, so i donno why to talk trash about tizen | 03:52 |
| poro | praoblty it will be the same crap, proprietary drivers and fence-drop kernel | 03:52 |
| poro | but at least with omdern hardware going forward | 03:52 |
| poro | and youd honestly have to be insane to write GTK apps for na "app store" and nokia realized that | 03:52 |
| poro | JS/WebOS/HTML5 makes a ton of sense | 03:53 |
| poro | and microb is horrendously out of date,and chromium is not even in any of hte maemo repos | 03:53 |
| poro | so hang onto the past all you want, i'll be happy to leave it | 03:53 |
| poro | cya | 03:53 |
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| Estel_ | poro, I'm using chromium as my everyday browser on Maemo | 03:53 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 03:53 |
| Estel_ | Hurrian, no, they just want to suck developers from Maemo | 03:54 |
| Estel_ | to Harmatishit | 03:54 |
| Estel_ | well, it's harder to suck them to winshit, due to framework incompatibility | 03:54 |
| Estel_ | appsforshit is quite like a next step after N950 project | 03:54 |
| Estel_ | the faster we kick out Nokia from Maemo - erm, I meant we move away from Nokia ;) the better | 03:55 |
| Hurrian | @Estel_ , said action requires that we can build a full maemo system from open components | 03:57 |
| Hurrian | still many maemothings that maemowants and are nokiaclosed. | 03:57 |
| Estel_ | yea, but Nokias repos can work without us even linking to it | 03:59 |
| Estel_ | it's just a part of support for device theyMve released | 03:59 |
| Estel_ | if not, we can mirror it without problem | 03:59 |
| Estel_ | if they won't allow us to mirror, well, last resort is P2p sharing of fool-proof local repo with data | 03:59 |
| Estel_ | or repository hosted in some chineese hosting service ;) | 04:00 |
| Estel_ | anyway | 04:00 |
| Estel_ | hosting for community sized like us is 100-150 bucks | 04:00 |
| Estel_ | we dont need many parts from original system. I can live without useless "news" feed from blogs | 04:00 |
| Estel_ | forum is Reggie hosted, but database are ours, I mean forum content | 04:01 |
| Estel_ | we can migrate whenever we want | 04:01 |
| Estel_ | repository - despite cheap, hosting, sticking with Debian is also interesting idea | 04:01 |
| Estel_ | as someone said, they would not even notice our transfer etc | 04:01 |
| Hurrian | preferably, migrate to not vbforum | 04:01 |
| Estel_ | yes | 04:02 |
| Estel_ | some open thing | 04:02 |
| Hurrian | e.g. phpbb | 04:02 |
| Estel_ | if possible without much hassle from vbforum database | 04:02 |
| Estel_ | or simpleforumachine or whatever | 04:02 |
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| Hurrian | the converters from vb <> phpbb work well, havent tried them on as large a DB as tmo though | 04:02 |
| Estel_ | No, really, DocScrutinizer is right that we can start literally right now - funds needed are much lower than I expected | 04:02 |
| Estel_ | fundriasing, foundation etc may be achieved later | 04:03 |
| Estel_ | without any legal problems | 04:03 |
| Estel_ | Nokians can literally bite their own ass with their appsformeego merging with maemo | 04:03 |
| Hurrian | brb - new kernel needs reboot | 04:05 |
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| Hurrian | @Estel_ , how many GBs of packages do repos have? | 04:08 |
| Hurrian | i can imagine extras-devel and testing have lost their purpose by now | 04:09 |
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| Estel_ | Hurrian, try to ask Nokians about traffic or size of zMaemo infrastruxcture - they're "not able to give definite answer" for 3 months now | 04:12 |
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| Estel_ | it seems that we need to dump content on our own anyway | 04:12 |
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| Estel_ | il will keep at least 2 repo instances (devel and normal), but, size isn't big problem | 04:13 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer had some interesting comparisions on hosting prices | 04:13 |
| Estel_ | even cheap ones are probably enough to keep whole infrastructure 3 pr 4 times ;) | 04:13 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, is having separate repo for devel still necessary? | 04:15 |
| Estel_ | probably yes, if Someone accidentaly upload breaking version | 04:18 |
| Estel_ | many people are still using autoupdate | 04:18 |
| Estel_ | imagine bootlooping kernel in extras ;) | 04:18 |
| Hurrian | :O | 04:18 |
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| Hurrian | point taken. | 04:19 |
| Hurrian | i have an idea, why not make a core components repo? | 04:20 |
| Hurrian | i have not seen core components being updated like a desktop linux system | 04:20 |
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| Hurrian | closest to that would be nokia's ssu | 04:20 |
| Hurrian | i don't remember cssu pulling in new components other than qt libs | 04:21 |
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| Estel_ | might be good idea, would need to ask actual CSSU devs | 04:22 |
| Estel_ | there are two flavors of CSSU anyway, stable and testing | 04:23 |
| Estel_ | no much point in having it doubled to devel and extras further | 04:23 |
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| Hurrian | @Estel_ : what i meant is that busybox-power would be the new busybox, kernel power is standard, we have a new e2fsprogs, etc. | 04:26 |
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| Hurrian | something like a rolling release distro | 04:28 |
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| Estel_ | nice | 04:30 |
| Hurrian | brb | 04:31 |
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| Hurrian | crap. dropped my phone. | 07:21 |
| Hurrian | back cover and battery flew off, but no scratches or shaking emmc's can be seen anywhere | 07:22 |
| Hurrian | only problem is that the right side of the slider is looser than the left. | 07:22 |
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| Lava_Croft | oh, i have that since forever | 08:41 |
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| Lava_Croft | right side always is looser | 08:41 |
| Lava_Croft | second N900, same looseness | 08:42 |
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| Lava_Croft | probably related to always using the right hand on the right side to slide open the device | 08:57 |
| r00t|home | but only until you notice, after that you always take care to push at the center | 08:58 |
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| Lava_Croft | oh, i dont:) | 09:00 |
| Lava_Croft | my mantra is more like "Screw it, I have two of em." | 09:00 |
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| Lava_Croft | I wonder if there are any updated chromium builds... | 09:10 |
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| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: ping | 09:56 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: pong | 09:57 |
| Lava_Croft | I tested some more with kp49 | 09:57 |
| Lava_Croft | no luck< | 09:58 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft, you said something about KP and battery usage a few days ago I didn't quite understand | 09:58 |
| Lava_Croft | well, you said i should have a longer lasting battery | 09:58 |
| freemangordon | no luck as in? | 09:58 |
| Lava_Croft | it just drains the battery faster for me | 09:58 |
| freemangordon | whicj KP? | 09:58 |
| Lava_Croft | 49 | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | which? | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | from repos? | 09:59 |
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| Lava_Croft | from extras-devel | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | SR enabled? | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | and it might be a placebo effect, but it seems it drains faster when using lower voltages | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | so far, the best result was with 'ideal' and sr enabled | 09:59 |
| freemangordon | :D | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | but still it drained like 150% faster than stock kernel | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | if not more | 09:59 |
| Lava_Croft | i use the device a lot for streaming radio over 2g/3g and webbrowsing | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | well, it does not matter which profile you use if you enable SR | 10:00 |
| Lava_Croft | ah | 10:00 |
| Lava_Croft | i just cannot figure out for the life of me why it drains faster, im not that technical:P | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | absolutely no difference as SR calculates the voltage | 10:00 |
| Lava_Croft | i kind of had that idea, yes | 10:00 |
| Lava_Croft | but thought what the hell | 10:00 |
| Lava_Croft | but the odd thing is | 10:01 |
| Lava_Croft | older versions of kp, (iirc <47) did not drain the battery this fast | 10:01 |
| Lava_Croft | i used KP all the time with the older versions | 10:01 |
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| freemangordon | You can try latest build from pali, i've changed SR a little. Do you use u-boot by any chance? | 10:02 |
| Lava_Croft | no uboot | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | have no ide than, but i can bet it is not the kernel itself | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | *idea | 10:02 |
| Lava_Croft | well, i havent changed anything, really | 10:02 |
| Lava_Croft | anything that might possibly ruin stuff, that is | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | anything in dmesg? | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | what powertop says? | 10:03 |
| Lava_Croft | probably not anymore, i removed kp49 | 10:03 |
| Lava_Croft | i only have 3 batteries :< | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | yeah, very helpfull :( | 10:03 |
| Hurrian | ohai freemangordon | 10:03 |
| Lava_Croft | oh, i could install it again | 10:03 |
| Lava_Croft | no problem | 10:03 |
| Hurrian | my recently dropped n900 is not crashing with sr vdd1 and 2 on. probably a good sign/ | 10:04 |
| Lava_Croft | oh yeah freemangordon, enabling SR was indeed stable | 10:04 |
| Lava_Croft | for what its worth:) | 10:04 |
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| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: anything else besides kernel-power you want me to install | 10:06 |
| Lava_Croft | that might aid in troubleshooting | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | Hurrian, is it my latest build from KP thread on TMO | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: powertop | 10:06 |
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| Lava_Croft | already have that, rebooting | 10:07 |
| Lava_Croft | im so happy my cracked lens cover isnt visible for the camera | 10:07 |
| Hurrian | @freemangordon yes, using the bootimg | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | Hurrian, yes, that is a good sign as the way SR calculations are done there will make it in KP50 | 10:08 |
| Lava_Croft | freemangordon: perferred way to enable SR is to save a profile to ~ and enable it in there? | 10:10 |
| freemangordon | I don't thenk there is any preffered way | 10:10 |
| freemangordon | *think | 10:10 |
| Lava_Croft | ill ask it differently then: how do you enable it? :) | 10:10 |
| freemangordon | kernel-config load dsp | 10:10 |
| freemangordon | or kernel-config load default if you don't overclock | 10:11 |
| Lava_Croft | done | 10:11 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont mind overclocking a bit | 10:11 |
| freemangordon | well, dsp profile overclock to 805 | 10:11 |
| Lava_Croft | 805mhz max freq, odd | 10:11 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, i saw | 10:11 |
| freemangordon | wahy odd? | 10:11 |
| freemangordon | why* | 10:11 |
| Lava_Croft | odd number | 10:12 |
| Lava_Croft | one would expect 800 or 850 | 10:12 |
| Lava_Croft | running powertop | 10:12 |
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| freemangordon | that is a legacy from titan, but I am sure he has his reasons, maybe PLL does not like 800 as a frequency | 10:12 |
| Lava_Croft | you want the output on pastebin? | 10:13 |
| freemangordon | sure | 10:13 |
| Lava_Croft | bastard opera mobile omitting http:// | 10:16 |
| Lava_Croft | http://pastebin.com/Mrh9NTLL freemangordon | 10:17 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: charger connected? | 10:18 |
| Lava_Croft | nope | 10:18 |
| Lava_Croft | needs to be? | 10:18 |
| freemangordon | no | 10:18 |
| freemangordon | just too much of activity | 10:18 |
| Lava_Croft | from? | 10:18 |
| freemangordon | maybe the device was not settled down | 10:18 |
| Lava_Croft | i just did powertop > powertop.txt | 10:19 |
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| Lava_Croft | shall i try a fresh reboot -> wait 5 minutes -> run powertop | 10:19 |
| Lava_Croft | to give the device all the time it needs to settle down | 10:19 |
| freemangordon | hmm, lets do it again in several minutes. And lock the device after pressing enter key, so the screen is off | 10:20 |
| Lava_Croft | ok | 10:20 |
| freemangordon | no reboot needed | 10:20 |
| freemangordon | according to top, which is the most CPU-active process? | 10:21 |
| Lava_Croft | apart from htop itself, Xorg | 10:22 |
| SpeedEvil | and unplug the USB power | 10:22 |
| freemangordon | good, seems the device is calm, you can do powertop again | 10:22 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil (nod) | 10:22 |
| Lava_Croft | i am using the 'speedpatch' because i love placebos | 10:23 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft, why oh why | 10:24 |
| Lava_Croft | i smoke cigarettes too | 10:24 |
| Lava_Croft | might be related to it | 10:24 |
| Lava_Croft | i already was a but suspicious of it, but your comment here makes me remove it | 10:25 |
| freemangordon | I am smoker too, but that is not the reason to buy cheap ones full of ter | 10:25 |
| Lava_Croft | har | 10:25 |
| freemangordon | *tar | 10:25 |
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| freemangordon | Lava_Croft, read this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1148490&postcount=29 and this http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1148766&postcount=34 | 10:29 |
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| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: what has happened with powertop? | 10:30 |
| Lava_Croft | pastebinning it | 10:31 |
| freemangordon | ok | 10:31 |
| Lava_Croft | http://pastebin.com/5UMYxTD8 | 10:32 |
| Lava_Croft | doesnt look that different | 10:32 |
| Lava_Croft | (to me) | 10:33 |
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| freemangordon | Total wakeups 42353 ?!? WTF? should be less than 1500 if connected to inet with IM accounts logged on. | 10:34 |
| Lava_Croft | eh | 10:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Is it plugged into USB? | 10:34 |
| Lava_Croft | nope | 10:34 |
| Lava_Croft | screen was off too | 10:34 |
| Lava_Croft | it is logged into 2 jabber accounts (facebook chat and another jabber server) | 10:34 |
| SpeedEvil | ok - what's intellisyncd? | 10:35 |
| freemangordon | I am wondering too | 10:35 |
| Lava_Croft | PIM syncing i think | 10:35 |
| Lava_Croft | The Intellisync Corporation is a provider of Data and PIM Synchronization software for mobile devices, such as Cell Phones and PDAs. The company is currently a part of Nokia, after it was acquired in 2006. | 10:35 |
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| Lava_Croft | i use the awful nokia messaging so incoming emails give me a notifcation right away | 10:36 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9334 - probably not | 10:37 |
| povbot | Bug 9334: Corrupted isync_mailstore.db causes process 'intellisync' restarting in short intervals | 10:37 |
| Lava_Croft | dont think so either | 10:37 |
| SpeedEvil | may it be actually downloading stuff? | 10:38 |
| SpeedEvil | also - stracing it may be of use. | 10:38 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont know if the nokia messaging stuff is related to intellisync | 10:38 |
| Lava_Croft | could very well be | 10:38 |
| freemangordon | Lava_Croft, can you put the device offline and try again, seems a lot of activity is going on when connected | 10:39 |
| freemangordon | btw anything suspicios in dmesg? | 10:39 |
| Lava_Croft | not that i can see | 10:40 |
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| freemangordon | ok, try again with device in offline mode | 10:40 |
| Lava_Croft | doing so atm | 10:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | also - try rebooting | 10:41 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil, why is that, it is freshly booted | 10:42 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm then | 10:42 |
| Lava_Croft | http://pastebin.com/SaMk6bBv | 10:45 |
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| Lava_Croft | thats more like it, i reckon | 10:45 |
| Lava_Croft | 427 wakeups | 10:45 |
| freemangordon | yeah, that is how it should be. | 10:45 |
| Lava_Croft | i could try and disable the nokia messaging stuff | 10:45 |
| freemangordon | still having "speedpatch"? | 10:45 |
| Lava_Croft | nope | 10:46 |
| freemangordon | good | 10:46 |
| Lava_Croft | removed the bashrc etc it created too | 10:46 |
| SpeedEvil | you should - ideally - be seeing something more like 2+ seconds average idletime in C4 | 10:46 |
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| freemangordon | well, whatever eats your battery, it is not KP | 10:46 |
| freemangordon | now,... | 10:46 |
| Lava_Croft | to find out what the hell is causing like what | 10:46 |
| Lava_Croft | 40k wakeups | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | copy dsp profile to /etc/default/kernel-power | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | and edit it so the limits are 125-805 | 10:47 |
| Lava_Croft | where is the profile located? | 10:48 |
| Lava_Croft | the dsp one (and the others) | 10:48 |
| Lava_Croft | i could load it, save it to ~ and then move to /etc | 10:49 |
| freemangordon | no | 10:49 |
| freemangordon | "usr/share/kernel-power" or something | 10:49 |
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| freemangordon | "/usr/..." | 10:49 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, kernel-power-settings i guess | 10:49 |
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| freemangordon | Lava_Croft: that is assuming you device is stable with SR | 10:50 |
| Lava_Croft | it has been in my testing | 10:50 |
| Lava_Croft | which lasted several days | 10:50 |
| freemangordon | good | 10:50 |
| Lava_Croft | only downside was the battery drain | 10:50 |
| Lava_Croft | the rest works flawlessly and without hitches | 10:50 |
| Lava_Croft | reboot? | 10:51 |
| freemangordon | hold on | 10:51 |
| freemangordon | now, you have "/usr/share/kernel-power/dsp" copied as "/etc/default/kernel-power"? And you've changed MINFREQ to be 125? | 10:52 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 10:52 |
| freemangordon | good, reboot | 10:52 |
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| Lava_Croft | hooray, it didnt break | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | :D | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | check if correct profile is loaded with kernel-config show | 10:53 |
| Lava_Croft | ever since my first n900 randomly died, everytime it lags just a little bit, i get scared:< | 10:53 |
| Lava_Croft | correct profile loaded | 10:54 |
| Lava_Croft | ill give it a bit of juice | 10:54 |
| Lava_Croft | the rebooting hurts battery | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | good, now give the bugger some time to calm down and redo the powertop stuff. | 10:55 |
| Lava_Croft | ok | 10:55 |
| freemangordon | well, about 5% or so, it is not so much | 10:55 |
| Lava_Croft | its not like the battery status readings are completely sane | 10:55 |
| Lava_Croft | :P | 10:55 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 10:55 |
| Lava_Croft | i use advanced-power too, btw | 10:55 |
| freemangordon | ahaa | 10:55 |
| Lava_Croft | but thats just since a few days and never hurt battery | 10:55 |
| Lava_Croft | the testing with kp49 was without it | 10:56 |
| freemangordon | that is why hildon-status-menu is waking up the CPU | 10:56 |
| Lava_Croft | advanced-power is bad mojo, too? | 10:56 |
| freemangordon | AFAIK | 10:56 |
| Lava_Croft | suggest to remove it? | 10:56 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 10:57 |
| Lava_Croft | will do so now | 10:57 |
| Lava_Croft | heh | 10:58 |
| Lava_Croft | advanced-interface-switcher is related to advanced-power? | 10:58 |
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| freemangordon | AFAIK it is python (or some other script) Could be wrong of course. | 10:58 |
| Lava_Croft | advanced-power is python, im sure of that | 10:58 |
| freemangordon | well, imagine what that stuff is doing with your RAM when constantly loaded ;) | 10:59 |
| Lava_Croft | apt-get remove advanced-power advancer-power-common advanced-power-monitor also makes apt-get want to remove advanced-interface-switcher | 10:59 |
| Lava_Croft | heh | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | what is this doing? | 11:00 |
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| freemangordon | whay it is so precios | 11:00 |
| Lava_Croft | advanced-interface-switcher is a status menu plugin to switch/turn off or on BT, 2g/3g and wlan | 11:00 |
| freemangordon | * precious | 11:00 |
| Lava_Croft | easy way to switch to 3g when wanting to browse the web | 11:00 |
| Lava_Croft | and to easily turn off wlan when leaving home | 11:00 |
| Lava_Croft | there are several other status menu plugins for it, but they clutter the status menu | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | 2g/3g selection applet? | 11:01 |
| Lava_Croft | like that, yes, only combined with wifi switcher | 11:01 |
| Lava_Croft | it can also automagically turn off wlan after a set amount of time without any accessible networks | 11:01 |
| Lava_Croft | ill just let apt-get remove it | 11:02 |
| freemangordon | why you need to switch wifi off? reduced battery usage? | 11:02 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 11:02 |
| Lava_Croft | theres no need to have wlan enabled when im not going to use it at all | 11:02 |
| Lava_Croft | my workday is all spent on 2g/3g | 11:02 |
| Lava_Croft | removing it all | 11:03 |
| Lava_Croft | the repos need some red flashing light to mark packages that are just fucked up | 11:03 |
| freemangordon | well, I am using stock applet for managing wlan/gprs and didn't see any ill effects. I make it trough day with half of a battery | 11:04 |
| Lava_Croft | stock applet, you mean the config panel? | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 11:05 |
| Lava_Croft | well, the 2g/3g switcher and wlan switcher never caused trouble here | 11:05 |
| freemangordon | 4 IM accounts, BT handsfree, 1-2 hours of browsing | 11:05 |
| Lava_Croft | and i switch from 2g to 3g quite a bit on a workday, so it gets annoying to have to enter the config panel all the time | 11:05 |
| freemangordon | constantly online | 11:05 |
| Lava_Croft | yeah, same here | 11:05 |
| Lava_Croft | n900 is my lifeline | 11:05 |
| freemangordon | KP49 :p | 11:05 |
| freemangordon | no need to enter cp all the time | 11:06 |
| freemangordon | just set it up to connect automatically | 11:06 |
| Lava_Croft | that wont easily let me switch between 2g and 3g... ? | 11:07 |
| Lava_Croft | easily as in, without entering the cp and 'disabling' 3g, or enabling it | 11:07 |
| freemangordon | I switch to 3g only when fast inet needed, 3g eats my battery for 4-5 hours | 11:07 |
| Lava_Croft | yup | 11:08 |
| Lava_Croft | same here | 11:08 |
| Lava_Croft | radio can stream fine over 2g | 11:08 |
| freemangordon | I use 2g/3g selection applet | 11:08 |
| Lava_Croft | thats what i used for most of the time, until i saw advanced-interace-switcher | 11:08 |
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| Lava_Croft | haha | 11:14 |
| Lava_Croft | 937 wakeups now | 11:14 |
| Lava_Croft | in online mode | 11:14 |
| Lava_Croft | ridiculous.... | 11:14 |
| Lava_Croft | ill have to flag some more packages as "evil" in my mind now | 11:14 |
| Lava_Croft | i guess this sets a new field for testing the battery life, which i will start on monday | 11:15 |
| Lava_Croft | thanks a bunch so far, freemangordon | 11:15 |
| Lava_Croft | i will certainly keep you informed | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | np, thanks | 11:15 |
| Sicelo | porr KP | 11:15 |
| Sicelo | *poor | 11:15 |
| Lava_Croft | well, the thing is | 11:15 |
| Lava_Croft | the battery life went down after installing KP:) | 11:16 |
| Lava_Croft | so for a poor end-user like myself that makes it look like KP is the culprit | 11:16 |
| Sicelo | for 3g/2g switching i use 'phone-control' lol | 11:16 |
| Lava_Croft | haha | 11:17 |
| Sicelo | works fine for me ;) .. maybe i should make a DCX button for it :P | 11:18 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo, that is exactly what 2g/3g selection applet does | 11:19 |
| Sicelo | btw that's on status menu? | 11:20 |
| freemangordon | yep | 11:20 |
| freemangordon | very handy | 11:20 |
| Sicelo | u trust it then :) | 11:21 |
| Sicelo | i'll install it soon. i try not to install stuff unnecessarily | 11:22 |
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| freemangordon | Same here, but this one is really useful | 11:24 |
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| Sicelo | although i very rarely use 3G, for battery reasons and the fact that i don't usually need fast data (expensive anyway) | 11:24 |
| Sicelo | thanks freemangordon. installed already :) | 11:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://eu.techcrunch.com/2009/08/11/nokia-ditching-symbian-for-maemo-german-ft-reports/ | 11:40 |
| Lava_Croft | haha | 11:41 |
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| x29a | SpeedEvil: nostalgia? thats from 2009 afair | 11:50 |
| SpeedEvil | meh | 11:51 |
| Lava_Croft | you didnt notice, SpeedEvil? :D | 11:51 |
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| x29a | but nokia is always great for a good laugh | 11:52 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, I noticed. | 11:53 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://www.bgr.com/2012/01/13/nokia-sells-more-than-450-patents-to-patent-troll/ | 12:13 |
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| * DocScrutinizer sells 50,000 trained rats to patent troll's neighbour | 12:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ninja rats ;-) | 12:48 |
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| * DocScrutinizer honestly thinks patents shouldn't be a tradable good | 12:51 | |
| Lava_Croft | patents should not exist | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Apart perhaps from individuals to corporate - once. | 12:52 |
| Lava_Croft | at all | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Patents should, and must exist. | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, FU aspellchecker -- tradeable* | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | But they need to be _sharply_ limited. | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | The 'obviousness' test should be beefed up hugely. | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | You do not get to patent 'protecting metal surfaces with paint on flying cars'. | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Because you invented the flying car. | 12:53 |
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| Lava_Croft | why should you even be allowed to patent your invention of the flying car | 13:15 |
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| badcloud | how to edit cssu key shortcuts? e.g. ctrl shift x for term | 13:18 |
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| badcloud | (not sure if that's cssu related) | 13:18 |
| Sicelo | hildon-desktop in cssu is 'related' to m-h-d ... therefore, http://wiki.maemo.org/Modified_Hildon_Desktop | 13:22 |
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| badcloud | Sicelo: thanks | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a shame that obviously there's no system wide concept for hotkeys at all | 13:23 |
| Lava_Croft | totally | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | like e.g. found in KDE | 13:23 |
| Lava_Croft | bad example | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | khotkeys | 13:23 |
| Lava_Croft | but yeah | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | excellent example | 13:23 |
| Lava_Croft | except its KDE, so it makes my skin crawl ;) | 13:24 |
| Lava_Croft | badcloud: not sure if you can actually change the keyboard shortcuts | 13:24 |
| Lava_Croft | afaik you can just enable or disable them? | 13:25 |
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| badcloud | that sucks | 13:30 |
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| Lava_Croft | yeah | 13:38 |
| Lava_Croft | ctrl+shift+x might as well have been cltr+shift+a+b+c+d+f+g or whatever | 13:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I bet it's hardcoded | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I think it would actually be a pretty good idea to replace the hardcoded hotkey handling by some augmented function that looks up arbitrary actions for arbitrary hotkey combinations in e.g gconf or a simple config file or whatever | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | if somebody was going to implement that into MHD, I'd love to support the project and push it into CSSU | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | for all I know, standard Qt already has accelerator key support for virtually everything (buttons, menu entries, whatever else) | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so fixing fremantle Qt and GTK to support it (again) would be a first great step. Then create a tool to let user redefine those per/in-app accelerator keys, plus handle the global hotkeys in MHD and allow to start arbitrary actions on hotkey-combos that aren't already caught by in-app accelerator keys | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually looking into the concept used by KDE is a good starting point, though implementation might differ slightly on a code and architecture level | 14:20 |
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| freemangordon | ping lxp | 14:37 |
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| freemangordon | ping pali | 14:44 |
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| * DocScrutinizer moos at freemangordon | 14:50 | |
| freemangordon | ...why is that? :) | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~lart estel | 14:51 |
| * infobot farts in estel's general direction | 14:51 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | from arbitrary channel: | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2012-01-14 09:45:13] *** Das Thema wurde am 2011-07-25 04:09 von DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg gesetzt. | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2012-01-14 09:45:16] <apt> Hi there, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1148886&postcount=668. Is the proposition of sponsoring server for few months still actual? | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2012-01-14 09:45:26] *** Kanalmodi: +Cn | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | >:-((( | 14:52 |
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| * DocScrutinizer heads out to do a 30min duty to clean out the mess estel created | 14:52 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! [2012-01-12 23:40:43] <Estel_> ~onjoin -DocScrutinizer [2012-01-12 23:40:44] <infobot> Estel_: ok [2012-01-12 23:41:17] <DocScrutinizer> ~onjoin -DocScrutinizer [2012-01-12 23:41:17] <infobot> ok, DocScrutinizer [2012-01-14 13:54:27] <DocScrutinizer> onjoin docscrutinizer [2012-01-14 13:54:29] <infobot> onjoin for docscrutinizer set by estel_ on ***Wed Jan 11 10:24:28 2012***: Hi there, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php? | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | p=1148886&postcount=668. Is the proposition of sponsoring server for few months still actual? | 15:00 |
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| ShadowJK | it's still doing it? | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, on ALL channels I join | 15:02 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 15:02 |
| ShadowJK | here too? | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | here not :-P | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | only chan it's not posted when I join | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: [2012-01-14 14:11:16] <DocScrutinizer> GvzEvxre: I again suggest to change onjoin cmd to work like: >>onjoin [#chan|_default][:N] [-]<nick> [message]<< where N gives number of onjoin actions after which the onjoin is getting deleted. N defaults to 1, 0 measn infinite, and non-privileged users mustn't use :N so it defaults to 1, and also non-privileged users must use [#chan] but may not use _default for it. If there's already a | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | onjoin setting with N!=1 or empty/"_default" #chan then a nonprivileged user mustn't redefine it | 15:14 |
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| fredddd | Robot101, any news on the Jabber SSL thing? | 15:15 |
| Robot101 | fredddd: hmm we could try adding a load more debug and see that way. I think fledermaus wanted to test on an N900 directly | 15:16 |
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| badcloud | DocScrutinizer: doesn't this imply system wide hotkeys? (taken from http://wiki.maemo.org/Modified_Hildon_Desktop) /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_shift_ctrl (*) | 15:17 |
| badcloud | "If the value of this key is true, then ctrl-shift-letter combinations are reported on the d-bus, allowing implementation of global shortcut keys. H,N,P,X are reported on the dbus only if the previous key is false." | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | badcloud: there *are* system-wide hotkeys like shift-ctrl-x | 15:18 |
| Lava_Croft | but there is no coherent system for managing them | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh yeah | 15:18 |
| badcloud | but they cannot be altered | 15:18 |
| badcloud | aaah | 15:18 |
| Lava_Croft | like DocScrutinizer said, they might very well be hardcoded | 15:18 |
| badcloud | gotcha | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | we'd need a dbus-listener to act on systemwide hotkeys | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously MHD already provides a API for it | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | if however that API is comprehensive to also handle per-app accelerator keys (which are basically just a set of hotkeys specific to that app and onlyget used when app "has focus") - I dunno | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also seems systemwide hotkeys are restricted to shift-control-[$CAHR] | 15:21 |
| Lava_Croft | which is a fuckedup key combo | 15:22 |
| badcloud | Lava_Croft: +1 | 15:22 |
| badcloud | what do you guys use as a substitute for the tab key btw | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | we should remove that restriction, and rather allow to define arbitrary key [combo] for hotkeys | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | in xchat? shift-space | 15:23 |
| Macer | tmux is great | 15:23 |
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| badcloud | DocScrutinizer: does that work for all apps? | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it's a xchat keybinding | 15:24 |
| badcloud | Macer: yeah, I remember using it a lot too | 15:24 |
| Macer | badcloud: i was having problems with screen and decided to swap | 15:24 |
| ShadowJK | ctrl-i works in xterm | 15:24 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 15:24 |
| Macer | i think i am going to stick with tmux ;) | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | screen had oddities on n900 | 15:24 |
| ShadowJK | (but I usually use the onscreen key) | 15:24 |
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| Lava_Croft | had/has | 15:24 |
| badcloud | the ctrl left/right doesn't work in opera :`( | 15:24 |
| Macer | screed has oddities everywhere | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | badcloud: you mean to switch windows? | 15:24 |
| Lava_Croft | or tabs | 15:24 |
| Macer | for some reason, especially on embedded devices, screen stops working | 15:25 |
| badcloud | Lava_Croft: no, move between form entry | 15:25 |
| Macer | i never found the underlying cause | 15:25 |
| Lava_Croft | ah | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | ctrl-left/right is usually bound to word-left/right, for line discipline | 15:25 |
| Lava_Croft | Macer: same here, decided not to bother | 15:25 |
| Lava_Croft | i run screen on a remote box, case solved | 15:25 |
| Macer | yeah. tha twas my problem. my remote box was an embedded device ;) | 15:25 |
| Macer | running the same hw as an n810 | 15:25 |
| Lava_Croft | hah | 15:25 |
| Macer | speaking of n810 i was going to install debian or gentoo on it | 15:26 |
| Lava_Croft | mine is some german VPS | 15:26 |
| Macer | mine is a synology diskstation | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | shift-ctrl-left/right is bound to highlight-word | 15:26 |
| Macer | screen would just stop responding and would't reattach even though it was still running | 15:26 |
| Macer | i should flash the n810 | 15:26 |
| Macer | it has been collecting dust heh | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | I find I accidentally press ctrl-s frequently when using screen on N900 | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | tab/shift-tab is the commonly accepted way to navigate from one input field to next/prev, in any form | 15:27 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: i thought that was the problem too but it wasn't | 15:28 |
| Macer | even after cleanly detatching... starting a new term.. and attempting a reattach it wouldn't attach | 15:28 |
| badcloud | DocScrutinizer: but there really isn't a comfortable obtion for tab on the n900, right? | 15:28 |
| Macer | it wouldn't happen often but often enough to curse screen heh | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ctrl-i IS tab | 15:28 |
| Macer | either way... tmux is nice | 15:28 |
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| Macer | i would say if not just as good as sceen, better | 15:29 |
| Macer | but this synology is too weak. i think it is the 128MB of ram | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | or rather: tab key is bound to ctrl-i for all usual input | 15:29 |
| Macer | i should have just waited and gotten a stronger synology with more ram | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | readline discipline | 15:30 |
| Macer | but it does give me the opportunity to install hurd debian on my artigo :) | 15:30 |
| badcloud | DocScrutinizer: good to know, only this doesn't seem to work in opera | 15:30 |
| Macer | it will be interesting to see what has become of hurd | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, opera seems to use raw char input | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/char/keycode/ | 15:30 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: well, opera seems to use raw keycode input | 15:30 |
| badcloud | ic | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't opera even come with proprietary vkbd? | 15:31 |
| badcloud | yes, without tab iirc | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | then blame opera :-D | 15:32 |
| * badcloud blames Canada | 15:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | if opera doesn't use normal keymap mechanism neither readline discipline, then they *ought* provide a proprietary way to define key mappings | 15:33 |
| badcloud | yep | 15:33 |
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| Lava_Croft | doesnt opera mobile come with an input.ini | 15:37 |
| Lava_Croft | that you can edit | 15:37 |
| badcloud | Lava_Croft: not that I know of | 15:38 |
| badcloud | (looked in .opera just now) | 15:38 |
| Macer | omg it is 16 outside | 15:39 |
| Macer | damn. i need a usb optical drive to install hurd debian on this artigo | 15:39 |
| Macer | they dont have a thumb drive img :( | 15:40 |
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| badcloud | apart from lack of tab and google being default search engine, I think opera is much better than microb | 15:41 |
| Lava_Croft | yup | 15:41 |
| Lava_Croft | endlessly better | 15:41 |
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| badcloud | opera mobile user agent really kicks ass with some sites | 15:43 |
| badcloud | (I know it can be changed for microb) | 15:43 |
| badcloud | but I'm not sure those sites work the way they should using microb + different user agent (will try sometime) | 15:44 |
| badcloud | has anyone tried m.google.com w/microb + alternate user agent? | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Macer: 16 what? °C? o'clock? dudes shouting up your window? | 15:47 |
| badcloud | DocScrutinizer: me thinks F | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~convert 16 degF to degC | 15:48 |
| infobot | 16 degF is approximately 8.88889 degC | 15:48 |
| ShadowJK | ~convert -7 degC to degF | 15:49 |
| badcloud | what? no no, what I think he meant is that it's 16F degrees outside | 15:49 |
| infobot | -7 degC is approximately -12.6 degF | 15:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | deg* is obsolete | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~convert 16 tempF to tempC | 15:50 |
| infobot | tempF(16) is approximately -8.88889 tempC | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/obsolete/outright buggy/ | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~+help convert | 15:52 |
| infobot | Desc: Convert from one unit to another | 15:52 |
| infobot | Usage: convert [number] <units> to <units> | 15:52 |
| infobot | Example: convert 55 tempF to tempC | 15:52 |
| infobot | Example: convert 60 mph to kph | 15:52 |
| infobot | Example: convert 60 miles per hour to km/hour | 15:52 |
| infobot | Example: convert gallons to cm^3 | 15:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I urged Tim to fix it just 2 weeks ago :-) | 15:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then I forgot about the new syntax :-P | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 15:55 |
| infobot | thanks, DocScrutinizer | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen timriker | 15:55 |
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| infobot | timriker <~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #ldstech, 2d 13h 30m 41s ago, saying: 'auto-builds work. :) talk to tccastaldo about any details. I've been working on the status page, not made any other big changes. cleaned paths to some of the applets it about all.'. | 15:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm pondering to remove OnJoin=1 from _default - for a temporary hotfix of the onjoin problem, though that's a major surgery on how infobot works | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | might break onjoins others as well as I rely on | 15:57 |
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| Macer | DocScrutinizer: F ;) | 16:06 |
| Macer | we use F here... lol... like heathens | 16:06 |
| Macer | i would guess... 3C? | 16:06 |
| Macer | i am not good on conversion | 16:06 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: Hi Doc, perhaps you got a good clarifying answer for me regarding a N9 and contacts? | 16:08 |
| * Macer stares at the topic | 16:09 | |
| DrGrov | Yes, I know. Wrong place but nobody has a an answer at #harmattan | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | so do I | 16:11 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer: You are staring at the topic yes? | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm in #harmattan as well, and not the top expert over there | 16:12 |
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| ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2012/01/13/designer_pitches_tech_trio_powered_by_portable_processor/ | 17:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moo javispedro | 17:20 |
| javispedro | moo | 17:20 |
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| * javispedro is reinstalling the chinook and diablo SDKs and can confirm they still work with the latest sbox versions | 17:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | what is more amazing though: they obviously still are available for installation :-D | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | chinook, omg | 17:26 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: why did ms feel the need to kill the nokia internet tablet? :'( | 17:38 |
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| javispedro | yeah | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems to me Nokia didn't need M$ for that | 17:39 |
| * javispedro still thinks that Bora/Chinook had the best UI of all | 17:39 | |
| kerio | nah, elop did it | 17:39 |
| Sicelo | javispedro: +1 | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | what changed in GUI from chinook to diablo? | 17:42 |
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| javispedro | larger applications menu for example | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh? | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | wel, I used chinook for as long as it takes to reflash ;-D | 17:43 |
| javispedro | (or task navigator as it was called =) ) | 17:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | definitely diablo had a more sane hw-kbd hotkey integration for GUI than fremantle ever had | 17:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer recalls the "more" icon on "primary" appstarter menu of fremantle PR-pre1.2(?), and wonders wth the GUI designers are smoking whole day to come up with weird concept tweaks every now and then | 17:47 | |
| ruskie | hehe | 17:47 |
| ruskie | I actually liked that "More" thing | 17:48 |
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| Sicelo | i never used them. lol. but for a user coming from S80, the older maemo gui's are more 'natural' | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I switched to apmefo as the original crap was unbearable | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now I got my own nicely sorted "more" folders ;-D | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | like "multimedia", "system", "core apps"... | 17:50 |
| Sicelo | hmm, this apmefo works fine? | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | eventually might invent "location" | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: basically yes. The config GUI is abysmal but I need it only once every 3 months. And you MUSTN'T drag icons to reposition them, as you can do in stock applauncher | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | will need you starting apmefo to recover your whole icon/subdir settup | 17:52 |
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| Sicelo | i understand Catorize or similar does the same thing .. which is better? | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | apart from that, apmefo is just fine | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | catorize didn't offer your private choice of subdirs, so it was even worse than stock | 17:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | catorize just duplicated the groups as found in HAM | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | and nothing you could change to your liking | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 17:54 |
| Sicelo | gotcha. thanx for info. :) | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | with apmefo though you create your own subdirs and sort icons to as many subdirs as you want to | 17:54 |
| ruskie | hmm interesting | 17:55 |
| ruskie | wasn't aware of that | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | only thing I'm missing in apmefo are sub-sub-dirs | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously hildon-desktop/hildon-home isn't aware of apmefo, so if you drag an icon, hildon-* nukes apmefo's setup of the icons and generic subdirs. You need to start and "save" apmefo to re-create everything from apmefo's config stored somewhere else | 17:59 |
| ruskie | I'd be happy if this were a core function... iirc even S60 devices support this type of sorting | 17:59 |
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| * DocScrutinizer idly ponders how apmefo, MHD, and CSSU relate to each other. Maybe get a patch for MHD/H-H into CSSU so it won't mess with apmefo? | 18:01 | |
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| Lava_Croft | my visitors are playing wordfeud and here i am with my n900 | 20:45 |
| Lava_Croft | feeling all left behind, while im looking over my shoulder and wondering whats keeping my friends so long | 20:46 |
| Lava_Croft | /poetry | 20:46 |
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| uhsf | Samsung will merge bada OS into the Tizen project! | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | what's left? webos? | 22:18 |
| wmarone__ | BorgOS | 22:18 |
| uhsf | maybe Nokia's meltemi could join in too? | 22:19 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia did not make for a very credible partner with intel, so probably not | 22:26 |
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| * SpeedEvil imagines Ubuntu buying nokia. | 22:49 | |
| * RST38h imagines AOL buying nokia | 22:50 | |
| Lava_Croft | all the q_q | 22:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | Extrapolating the stock price of nokia over the next year and a half, it falls into the range at which Ubuntu could buy it. :/ | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | netscape :/ | 22:54 |
| Lava_Croft | suomis should nationalize nokia | 22:55 |
| Lava_Croft | if it comes to takeovers | 22:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. Stock price was last about this low in Feb 1998. | 22:56 |
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| Lava_Croft | nokia survived worse than this | 22:59 |
| Lava_Croft | company isnt new | 22:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes. | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Speaking personally, I'd like it to do more than what it looks like it's headed for in the next several years. | 23:02 |
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| Lava_Croft | for me, wp7 is just an inbetween solution to keep shareholders happy | 23:03 |
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| Lava_Croft | a bit of sodomy is needed to survive | 23:03 |
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| ShadowJK | it'd be a solution if it actually sold :/ | 23:05 |
| Lava_Croft | looks like it need some more time | 23:06 |
| Lava_Croft | nokia alone can make more different kinds of phones than most of its competitors combined | 23:07 |
| Lava_Croft | lets just hope they flex their muscle | 23:07 |
| Lava_Croft | in a focussed way | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | I don't think the strategy of making 19 different models, all with different cripplings, works very well in the long run :) | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | also MS needs to get their shit in order | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | and it has the burden of carrying the ms and windows brand | 23:09 |
| Lava_Croft | wp7 isnt that bad of a start, but its still ms | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Windows-Phone-7-Trumps-Apple-Android-ExMicrosoft-Exec-118038/ | 23:09 |
| Lava_Croft | they categorically dont really have their shit together mostly | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | . In November, IT research firm Gartner reported Windows Phone market share slid to 1.5 percent from the 2.7 percent share it secured a year earlier. Even more worrying for Microsoft, it fell behind Samsung's Bada operating system, which captured 2.2 percent of the market in the third quarter. | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | I heard not even something as simple as minesweeper survives if you want to pause and do something else? | 23:10 |
| Lava_Croft | i heard i heard is stuff thats a bit meh | 23:10 |
| Lava_Croft | as is all this ms bashing, wp7 bashing and what not | 23:10 |
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| Lava_Croft | just my very humble opinion of course | 23:11 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if there is any freedom-of-informationable source traking phone sales in the UK. | 23:11 | |
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| Lava_Croft | hahaha | 23:12 |
| Lava_Croft | dreamer:D | 23:12 |
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| ShadowJK | I think the biggest damage MS did to their windows brand was when Vista got delayed, and then release while still shit. This resulted in people staying with xp for so long, that computer hardware actually caught up and became capable of running XP. Also when skipping Vista entirely, hardware went further and actually started to run xp quickly. So, when MS then forced people on to Windows 7, most normal people had such terrible experiences, both in terms o | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | f user friendliness and performance, that just mentioning windows 7 makes them strangle innocent bystanders :/ | 23:14 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: vista wasn't so bad | 23:16 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: 7 isn't that much better, but they handled marketing in much better way | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | I still haven't seen a pc able to run Vista decently | 23:17 |
| jacekowski | well, marketing | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | 7 seems much better | 23:17 |
| jacekowski | vista will run any pc that runs 7 | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | but not well | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | exactly the same way | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | all they changed is cpu sheduler | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | so system feels faster | 23:18 |
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| ShadowJK | win7 seems to rape the harddrive less | 23:18 |
| jacekowski | ( UI threads get better response time and stuff ) | 23:19 |
| jacekowski | that's because of automatic defragmentation | 23:20 |
| jacekowski | and changed superfetch settings | 23:20 |
| jacekowski | they didn't really changed any code, | 23:20 |
| jacekowski | more like tweaked settings | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | The end result however is that for a normal user Vista becomes unusable slow in about 4 weeks. It seems vista accumulates a bunch of stuff it wants to do, and then tries to do it all at once on boot? | 23:21 |
| jacekowski | yeah another thing they've added | 23:22 |
| jacekowski | delayed start | 23:22 |
| jacekowski | for services | 23:22 |
| jacekowski | all non critical services are loaded after everything else is started | 23:22 |
| jacekowski | which again, isn't major change but makes it look better | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | Atleast Win7 seems to mostly stop raping hd if you try use the computer | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | it's kinda funny when people with quadcore 4gigarams PCs buy an ipad and are amazed at how it can surf the web so much faster than their expensive PC :D | 23:27 |
| jacekowski | no flash | 23:28 |
| jacekowski | i'm using opera and everything works 10x as fast when i disable flash | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | Well they measure it from pressing power button until pages display, and their PCs are never on long enough for all services/whatever finishing to load | 23:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's probably enough to say that on "my" company a few thousand developers are still on XP | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it seems we rather might get linux stations than wincrap_recent | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and DEAR GOD I HATE IT every single day when on my 1280*1024 screen a requester opens size 120*180 with a treeview inside and two scrollbars to see top, bottem and whole lines to find what you search for, and there's NO DAMN WAY to resize that shit | 23:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | working on WinCrap you learn to love your KDE windows/desktop manager, with the nice "decorations" and windows context where you can enforce any arbitrary aspect regarding windows geometry and behaviour on any arbitrary window | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | at $work there's software that refuses to be resized, minimized or maximized | 23:55 |
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| ShadowJK | if you accidentally click the minimize button it helpfully corrupts its databases | 23:56 |
| ShadowJK | (and then crashes) | 23:56 |
| wmarone__ | that's some impressively bizzare behavior | 23:56 |
| wmarone__ | I wonder how hard they worked to make it do that | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | window too small? PFF, "minimum size", "enforce temporarily" "800 * 600" | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | wmarone__: indeed :-P | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | also it has the X for closing window, but it's so buggy it can't be used. The software company added a "secret" word to type into one of the input boxes though, which causes a clean shutdown | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | print preview had so many side effects they had to disable it | 23:59 |
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